Taiga Historical Movie

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haroon
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Taiga Historical Movie

Post by haroon » Mar 27th, '19, 15:42

I just finished King of Zinpangu, Historical Taiga drama about Nobunaga, well it is a nice experience and historical wise except the story of Zuiten and the overblowing role of Jesuit during that time, the series is quite valid historical wise. And now I am searching for Historical Taiga drama, and I'm really frustrated because even though the cinematography of Furin Kazen and Gunshi Kanbee is somewhat food to the eyes, especially Gunshi Kanbee, but right from the start both me and my wife already losing appetite to continue the series because of the over bombasticness of the series and historically unbelievable like the immortal Gunshi Kanbee who get shot by lines of archer and musket man and still stand up alive, either he is a superman or the shooter are total moron, it is soo cringy.

Sengoku period is already an interesting era, a very crazy era where so many crazy events happened, can anyone recommend me a movie who are more into picturing of what actually happened during that period with a little improvisation to spices up the film, not a kind of series that want to changes a story of historical character into somekind of super hero movie?

Thank you!

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by PenagihDrama » Mar 29th, '19, 21:26

haroon wrote: Mar 27th, '19, 15:42 I just finished King of Zinpangu, Historical Taiga drama about Nobunaga, well it is a nice experience and historical wise except the story of Zuiten and the overblowing role of Jesuit during that time, the series is quite valid historical wise. And now I am searching for Historical Taiga drama, and I'm really frustrated because even though the cinematography of Furin Kazen and Gunshi Kanbee is somewhat food to the eyes, especially Gunshi Kanbee, but right from the start both me and my wife already losing appetite to continue the series because of the over bombasticness of the series and historically unbelievable like the immortal Gunshi Kanbee who get shot by lines of archer and musket man and still stand up alive, either he is a superman or the shooter are total moron, it is soo cringy.

Sengoku period is already an interesting era, a very crazy era where so many crazy events happened, can anyone recommend me a movie who are more into picturing of what actually happened during that period with a little improvisation to spices up the film, not a kind of series that want to changes a story of historical character into somekind of super hero movie?

Thank you!
Brother, don't be fooled by that scene alone but I recommend you to continue. Kanbee was never been portrayed as immortal as far as I remember from watching the series. That scene was a fast forward of the future event and you will get there again somewhere at 3rd quarter of the series.

However, I do agree with you that particular scene might have been exaggerated by the director a bit. But, then again in my opinion it was not a totally wrong interpretation. Why? Because first you need to know what event that was and when did it happen in history. Then, you need to think what would have happened if Kanbee had been killed at that time. The clue is, nobody in that castle wants a war. Those flying arrows could be interpreted as a test to see Kanbee's sincerity although hundreds of them kind of too much of course.

Secondly, your definition of historical accuracy can't be applied to any drama. As the name implies, a drama should have been dramatized almost anything. For accuracy you need to read history book or go to museum. But note that, things written in history are stuffs like important changes of events, date of death of important person and so on. Yet, you will never know what they said, what wives talked to their husbands, who were the non significant people involved in an event, especially those happen hundreds of years ago. This is where interpretation come in place. And in my opinion interpretation of Gunshi Kanbee is acceptable, and nobody can prove it's wrong because no one knows what is right.

Although to be fair, from what I've seen in Taiga drama (few that I've watched), there will be some minor historical facts that might been excluded or altered. Normally the concubine, and children might not been included all or they can be mixed up to a single fictional character. Name of the wives sometimes been changed too. Some important figures that have less involvement with main character might not appear in the series.
haroon wrote: Mar 27th, '19, 15:42can anyone recommend
I recommend you to give Gunshi Kanbee another try. :mrgreen:

And may I know which part of Fuurin Kazan you think did not accurate historically?

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by haroon » Apr 1st, '19, 15:07

Hey PenagihDrama, thank you so much for the reply I really appreciate there is someone still alive in this cemetery like forum, what I hope in historical series is not dramatization of history, but interpretation of history, the difference is that dramatization of history is more like borrowing history as a platform to create a drama movie or series, hence the drama can dish out the history aspect anytime when it is needed. While the interpretation of history is pretty much should work as your above explanation.

There are many good historical novels for instance the work of Eiji Yoshikawa are generally great, there will be no sequences that is too exaggerated or bombastic that it will somehow break the immersion, everything has its reference and reason hence it is believable, and Yoshikawa pretty much stays loyal to the history.

That particular arrow scene reminds me of a kind of movie like 300, the dramatization of history types of movie that I mentioned before, not all of them are bad, but I'm not a fan of that kind of movie generally, some historical drama that I like, that is not breaking too much immersion would be Shogun by James Clavell.

Currently I'm watching Takeda Shingen, but the subtitles is little bit off, if in the future I cannot tolerates the draw back I will revisit Gunshee Kanbee.

Fuurin Kazan? mmm they seems exagerates the lead character, his behavior and reaction seems not a very sengoku type of character, that movie remind me of the new mainland Wuxia movies, putting a modern behavior and reaction or even maybe fashion to a asian medieval series.

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by PenagihDrama » Apr 1st, '19, 18:01

It's obvious the novel was not written at the sengoku era, so it's a bit unfair to judge how far it's truthful to history. Even the history itself written based on whatever old records available plus the hearsay from locals/descendants and traditional storyteller, so still possible to be manipulated thus won't be the truth anymore. LOL

As for the Gunshi Kanbee, as far as I remember only that scene that was a bit over dramatized (although it's a fact that Kanbee did not die on that day in history). After that episode it was not so bad. However the most dramatic event in the series IMO was when Kanbee been imprisoned until he became crippled and lose sight on one eye. I can't imagine how you will handle that (considering your logic), but strangely that was what written in history though!

To be fair even your favorite Nobunaga King of Zippangu, missed several of things apart from what you have mentioned about Zuiten. One major thing is the depiction of Saru or Hideyoshi. To be that good looking (for a person who's nicknamed as saru) was not that convincing to me. It's acceptable in the sense the whole drama is based on perspective of Luis Frois, but yet too far from what depicted in historical record.

Fuurin Kazan was not my favorite, but I think it's one of the Taiga drama that used classical language well (at least sound much proper to me although I only know basic japanese). Maybe you don't feel comfortable with the actor?

About the fashion, you must be kidding. Japanese drama is the only one that won't be influenced by the recent Chinese/Korean style of history drama. I mean you will notice that even scene at night is too bright for those C and K drama but not in any Taiga drama.

Personally, I feel Taiga drama is the only kind that stick closely to history (while it's clearly claimed as being fictionalized by NHK). They're not based on classical novels alone, but some details that are obtained from locals as well. Seriously you can't compare with wuxia or Kdrama or western movie. It's so much more closer to History Channel's drama.

I think you know this, but Taiga is only broadcasted once a year. There are not many of them (and they're not focusing on sengoku era alone). Therefore you can't ask for recommendation really. It's the matter of whether you want to watch it or pass it!

PS: I'm looking forward for Akechi Mitsuhide story in 2020.

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by haroon » Apr 2nd, '19, 10:02

I think I never mentioned I want a clear representation of history, as I explain myself previously what I'm after is an "interpretation of history" not "dramatization of history" as I makes a clear example of it which is the movie "300", I don't know why we should ponders on matters that I have entirely no problem with, my problem is that I found the opening of Gunshi Kanbee really gives a strong vibes this going to be the next "300", where the few superman able to defeat the large portion of enemy forces in an entertaining but somewhat unconvincing way. And I'm pretty much open minded if you convinced me otherwise hence I told you I will give it a try.

Yes crazy coincidence happened in history I agreed; the storm drive the Khan's horde away from Japan, the son of humble birth Ashigaru becomes the ruler and unifier of Japan, a Somalian or Ethiopian slave becomes a Hatamoto, or even in other part of history a strong 100.000 Austrian army butchered each other because of gypsy travelling merchant and get defeated by the Ottoman without the Ottoman lay a hand at them, I can keep on going. Hence I said previously the Sengoku itself is a crazy historical period where so many actual events happened or at least rumored to be happened. I want to see a movie that interprets these events.

Nobunaga King of Zipangu is never my favorite, I never mentioned it at such, as you also noticed I don't fancy the Zuiten and overblown Christian missionary role, Hideyoshi face is minor for me, but there are so many events that they skip because filling the series with unnecessary fictional things.

Taiga Drama is closer to History's Channel and different than Wuxia? Actually that is what I expect it to be hence I post this thread here looking after a recommendation.

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by PenagihDrama » Apr 20th, '19, 22:40

Sorry for the late reply and sorry for my English if my previous post sounded offensive to you.

I know you won't watch it but for the sake of giving justice for the production team of Gunshi Kanbee, I guarantee you the following won't be happening.
haroon wrote: Apr 2nd, '19, 10:02 few superman able to defeat the large portion of enemy forces in an entertaining but somewhat unconvincing way.
I assume you know your stuffs but for those who might be interested and reading this thread silently let me give my take on what I understand on that particular scene.
First of all that was during a battle's halt. Kanbee came to the Odawara castle for a surrender talk and he was on the LARGE ARMY side (Hideyoshi side). Hojo Clan who's residing Odawara castle at that particular time was the LAST clan that stubbornly did not want to pledge allegiance with Hideyooshi.

While previous attempts to defeat Hojo's castle by Hideyoshi were not successful thanks to the inexperienced Ishida Mitsunari, the comeback of Kanbee as strategist will surely make the difference. And even if they accidentally had killed Kanbee at that time, they could easily be annihilated by Hideyoshi massive army sooner or later (imagine this single clan versus all other clan's army throughout Japan) or eventually died due to limited number of foods they have.

As a strategist, Kanbee was trying to ask Hojo lord to surrender by offering safety and pardon to every single life in that castle which otherwise will die or killed. But in history Hojo family was killed and in the drama Hideyoshi was portrayed as breaking the promise made by Kanbee. Here is the interpretation that should be focused not the flying arrows.
Therefore, I take the flying arrows as "trivial exaggeration" as opposed to the "bigger event" the scene was trying to portray (as I described in spoiler tag above).
haroon wrote: Apr 2nd, '19, 10:02 Hideyoshi face is minor for me
I believe some others will care because Hideyoshi was
haroon wrote: Apr 2nd, '19, 10:02 ruler and unifier of Japan
Not that much on the face but the physical portrayal of someone who's nicknamed as "monkey" and uncultured aspect of him (the language he used, the body posture, etc)

I want to recommend you some dramas but it looks like we have different expectation on how historical drama should be presented so I don't know any that's suitable for you. However, here is the list of taiga drama around sengoku era that I think available with subs (maybe):

Those I have watched:
  • Mori Motonari - very early Sengoku won't cross with Oda time
  • Gunshi Kanbee
  • Aoi Tokugawa Sandai - early Edo and nothing Sengoku but Tokugawa Ieyasu is the main role with other characters from Sengoku
  • Fuurin Kazan
  • Sanada Maru
  • Toshiie and Matsu - mid Sengoku to early Edo
  • Nobunaga King of Zipangu

Others I haven't:
  • Takugawa Ieyasu
  • Hideyoshi
  • Takeda Shingen
  • Dokuganryu Masamune - prob. late Sengoku to early Edo
  • Gou - prob. late Sengoku to early Edo
  • Onna Joushu Naotora
  • Komyo ga Tsuji
  • Tenchijin

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Simon Boccanegra
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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by Simon Boccanegra » Aug 12th, '20, 20:46

The Hideyoshi taiga is definitely worth it, very good cast and story. It also doesn't shy away from Hideyoshi's flaws, especially in his later years. The actor is pretty much perfect.

Nobunaga is also very charismatic, kind of scary as hell, but has his Pet The Dog moments. They do play up some of his Demon King shenanigans but he isn't a Disney villain.

Hideyoshi's mom is also amazing. His family in general is given plenty of focus.

Mitsuhide is very sympathetic (it helps that the actor is handsome, sensitive and also mastered the sad puppy look) and he plays a rather big role from early on.

Sen no Rikyu is Nakadai Tatsuya (and also plays a large role). That alone would be worth watching for, he's awesome.

Goemon is given a big role and he's something of a childhood friend/honorary brother to Hideyoshi (which is probably fanfiction but it pays off dramatically).

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Re: Taiga Historical Movie

Post by PenagihDrama » Aug 20th, '20, 14:15

Simon Boccanegra wrote: Aug 12th, '20, 20:46 Hideyoshi's mom is also amazing. His family in general is given plenty of focus.
Couldn't agree more! Hideyoshi's mom in this Taiga was definitely the best mom I've seen in Jdramas...LoL

The only thing I don't like about this drama is the writing on the later half of Hideyoshi's life (after Oda's death)...because some of famous Hideyoshi unpopular decisions were not explored properly specifically the killing of his nephew's concubines as well as the Christians. The "graffiti incident" also was not fairly explained and the writer was over-romanticizing it with Goemon's son. It felt as though the writer was forcing us to believe Hideyoshi was still a good guy although the history told us the other way round.

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