What you think about people selling fansubs for profit?

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 21st, '05, 00:31

I think a lot of you are missing the BIG PICTURE here. So let me break afew ideas down.

1. Although gingertoys2 is doing things that are immoral, illegal, and arrogant... The PROBLEM is that the people who should really be making noise about it is the television companies. But eBay does not listen to international copyright laws - they'll only obey the laws in the U.S. As long as they are not members of eBay Safe Harbor, they have no right under eBay regulations to file a complaint. Right now you may think this is totally stupid, but think about this... Imagine TBS or Fuji TV sending a formal letter to eBay asking that all of their works be removed. Who's to know if the letter or the company is authentic? I could easily print out an official-looking Fuji TV letterhead, and send a letter to eBay pretending to be the Japanese TV company. To eBay, there IS NO DIFFERENCE. Unless the company CERTIFIES that it's legitimate, eBay will not do anything.

2. I laugh each time fansubbers and other drama fans file complaints to eBay. Again, gingertoys2 is a ho **** and I'd slap her around if I ever visted Georgia. But you all have to remember that the whole fansubbing/fanworks business is just as illegal as the illegal sales. Whether you make a profit, break even, or even give the dramas away for free - practically every torrent on D-Addicts is considered illegal under international copyright law. I'm pretty sure the folks at eBay are familiar with P2P. So when they see individuals filing complaints about certain types of merchandise being sold, the LAST thing they'd do is take the complaints seriously. It's almost like a drug dealer telling the police another guy's illegally moving in on his territory.

It's a no-win for fanworks, period. Like I've said in practically EVERY eBay thread on D-Addicts, the A-quality subbed work being put out is THE PROBLEM. Unless you make the fanworks unsuitable for re-sale, the drama will be sold on eBay. So enjoy the pristine quality being put out today. But remember that gingertoys2's customers are enjoying them, too.

--- groink

cuteangelika · Post by **cuteangelika** » Oct 21st, '05, 01:04

As a fan of fansubbers, I feel awful about this... and Im not even involved in the fansubbing myself! How more would the people who've invested their sweat and blood to create these subs for free for the community to enjoy?
Mikazuki's suggestion is the most plausible solution so far... If the fansubbers themselves complain to the hosting site then it'll create trouble for the seller. Sure, the seller might just put up another site but it will still mean losing his current "market".
Before I knew about d-addicts, i bought VCD's from someone selling it online. I've checked recently and noticed that the subbers' names are familiar.. and que horror, it's because they're from d-addicts! I emailed the one who sold these stuff to me and told her she robbed me, big time. The cost of the cds and burning were too low compared to the price she was charging-- plus, I told her I knew she took the subs somewhere for free.. from people who are giving it for free as well.
She never replied to my email. Recently, i found out, she lowered her prices and announced it as a "promo" thing. Too bad I didnt know her other customers or I would have bad mouthed her all the way.

Sorry for the long post.

awrittensin · Post by **awrittensin** » Oct 21st, '05, 01:06

I understand that you can never stop people who sell fansubs for profit. However, I seriously ran across this website by coincidence, and once more, I want to reiterate the <i>only</i> reason I posted the link here in the first place.

I wanted to alert my fellow fansubbers that their work is being sold for profit on this specific website.

Do with the information what you will - email the person and request they remove your work from the website, etc.

I was not suggesting we could shut down every person that sells fansubs. I was not suggesting for fansubbers to quit what they are doing. I certainly won't stop subbing, and I don't expect anyone else to, either. I'm not taking my ball and going home.

I just wanted to let people know what was going on, because I thought since it's their work, they had a right to know. It was the first time I had personally come across someone selling my own work, and wanted to spread the word, and thought a thread here would be best since there are so many series on that site that have originated from d-addicts. That is all.

I love all of you guys who fansub and contribute to fansubbing!

Keep up the great work!

xbtcmdx · Post by **xbtcmdx** » Oct 23rd, '05, 00:13

omg...how could some1 do that??? i feel really bad for all of the fan subbers out there. they've really worked hard for these subtitles (i luv u guys :">) and now some1's using their hardwork to make money. these people really are some %$&*#^)$(#^@ who cares about nothing but money.

bugsie · Post by **bugsie** » Oct 23rd, '05, 17:10

they should get a real job, bunch of lazy sh*ts.

Kamui6 · Post by **Kamui6** » Dec 29th, '06, 07:42

Here's another dick

takezo2001
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtakezo2001QQhtZ-1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0062511021

Julz · Post by **Julz** » Dec 29th, '06, 07:47

its the worst they' re using someone's hardwork for free and selling them for there own profit. they are the worst

groink · Post by **groink** » Jan 23rd, '07, 23:09

Check this article out:

http://xrl.us/udqz (C-Net)

Although eBay's more concerned about fraud on "big ticket" items like collectibles and such, there may soon be tools to report these mo-fo fanwork sellers.

--- groink

Aen · Post by **Aen** » Jan 24th, '07, 03:52

Eh, they're mostly just kids that don't get enough allowance.

There's not much you can do other than put the "If you bought this you got ripped off" message during the sponsors screen. At least it's not like you're losing any money.

smileytiffy07 · Post by **smileytiffy07** » Jan 24th, '07, 04:32

I personally think that they shouldn't cuz if it's not their own handiwork they're jsut ripping someone off.
They're exploiting ppl's money and the fansubber's time and efforts.
I mean yeah people need money but I don't think its fair.

alcozar · Post by **alcozar** » Jan 26th, '07, 20:15

scum.

bria333 · Post by **bria333** » Apr 10th, '07, 12:54

I can't find any ebayers selling downloaded fansubed doramas at the moment. They seem to have all been removed.

Rasckita · Post by **Rasckita** » Apr 10th, '07, 13:50

Is there any fansub that distribute their subbed dramas on DVD-R or CD-R? I want to know because for people like me that have slow interenet connection is hard to download all episodes we want, so if there are fansubs that distribute their completed dramas in DVD-R our CD-R as data or even dvd video, it would be great.

So if there isnt, i think it's a good idea for fansubs to do that. And they could sell to their profit too and to help keeping the fansub work live.

i think this is a good solution to avoid people from buying dramas( subbed by fansubs) from people who has nothing to do with fansubbing and is only selling to make profit.

What you guys think?

I created a topic on the fansubber forum, sugesting that:
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_47105.htm

bria333 · Post by **bria333** » Apr 10th, '07, 22:43

I would buy them straight from the fan subbers. Espeically for older shows that have lost all seeds. They might encounter legal problems though.....

aNToK · Post by **aNToK** » Apr 11th, '07, 06:15

Doubt I'll be doing the dvd thing for fansubs publicly, but I will be opening a website for legitimate K-dramas pretty soon.

groink · Post by **groink** » Apr 11th, '07, 06:38

Rasckita wrote:Is there any fansub that distribute their subbed dramas on DVD-R or CD-R?

No, for one simple reason: Anonymity

You have to remember something here... All fansubbers use handles, aliases, etc. for one reason: so no one knows who you really are! Why? Because fansubbing is illegal!!!!! Any law enforcement agency, or copyright owner can easily purchase a fansubbed product from a fansubbing group. You know what will then happen?

- The payment information can be traced, such as PayPal, credit card, check, money order, etc. The only payment type that is difficult to trace is cash, but then again who would actually send cash over the mail?

- Since 9/11, packages aren't allowed to leave off the FROM address. A package with no FROM address will set off alarms in some mail systems - USPS being one of them. You're also not allowed to have matching FROM and TO addresses on the package; the two addresses must be different.

- The system used to conduct the pre-payment transaction is also traceable, such as web sites, e-mail, etc.

The reason why we all resort to downloading and P2P is to make it very difficult to track people down. To actually distribute fansubbed dramas to the masses in a non-secure setting - that really goes against everything we've achieved in fansubbed video distrubution the last 25 years.

--- groink

Rasckita · Post by **Rasckita** » Apr 11th, '07, 17:42

I didnt knew it envolved many things and that it was that complicated.
But thanks for the information!

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Apr 13th, '07, 00:09

I think it's OK. Not everyone has a permanent internet connection, or knows how to get the dramas. But I think they should charge a reasonable amount, not like it's a real dvd.

YukariOro · Post by **YukariOro** » Jul 19th, '07, 03:17

Angelique wrote:I think it's OK. Not everyone has a permanent internet connection, or knows how to get the dramas. But I think they should charge a reasonable amount, not like it's a real dvd.

Very true, Angelique. I have two friends who have no internet--one of whom works two jobs and has no car, much less a computer and Internet access who has bought the GingerToys DVDs.

I haven't bought from GingerToys myself, but I do have one GingerToys dvd that said friend bought for me for my birthday. Thing is, even when she lived with her parents, she only had dialup access. Just try to imagine downloading fansubs on dialup. (Yes, in this day and age, some people don't have DSL or cable, and they also don't have cable or satitlite <sp> television.)

That said, I agree that GingerToys should not be selling the fansubs, and the hardwork of others, for profit. I regularly burn to DVD the fansubs I collect here for my friends who either don't have internet access, or the availability to collect the fansubs themselves because of limited hardware or disk space.

What I never do is sell the DVDs or give them out to more than just a few close friends. The only thing I've ever asked of my friends is that they occasionally donate blank DVDs to the cause (so far, only one friend has been able to, so I've actually spent more on the dvds than they give back in dvds<g>), as they can get expensive.

So, yeah, GingerToys is providing a service--although through dishonest methods, imo--to those who want the fansubs we're able to get, but are unable to access them as easily. One thing I never do, however, is claim credit for the fansubs--the only change I've ever made was to be sure the size and quality fits well on my homemade DVDs.

And have to mention one other thing. I have a laptop, but I absolutely hate watching TV shows on it. It's just plain awkward, so I actually started burning the dvds for easier watching myself, lol. One thing you'll never see is me selling 'em anywhere, much less online.

Course, I'm also training in the graphic arts field, so it's been a real challenge to learn to convert to dvd--not always pleasant. I've learned more about video editing than I ever thought I wanted to know, hehe.

And on a side note that's sort of related, I've made tons of wallpapers that I've posted on an anime fansite (www.theotaku.com as KenshinSorrow). One time one of my wallpaper pieces got taken, altered just enough to get rid of my signature, and posted on another site, with the person claiming they created it. Needless to say, I was not at all pleased.

So yeah, I totally understand the concept of getting angry because something you worked long and diligaintly on, is stolen, with no proper credit given, and worse, the person claiming all the credit when they did zero to create the piece. Worse, is when they then try to make a profit based on YOUR hard work, whether it be a profit in praises or money.

So I can see where the fansubbers would be hugely angry, just like I was when I made the discovery of my own work being stolen.

Karin

Wongo · Post by **Wongo** » Jul 19th, '07, 03:28

The only reasonable price for fansubs is it being free...lol

rico2001 · Post by **rico2001** » Jul 19th, '07, 03:40

Wongo wrote:The only reasonable price for fansubs is it being free...lol

Amen bro, agree with you 100%, FREE!

wangbu · Post by **wangbu** » Aug 26th, '07, 02:46

Angelique wrote:I think it's OK. Not everyone has a permanent internet connection, or knows how to get the dramas. But I think they should charge a reasonable amount, not like it's a real dvd.

In my opinion, even if they charge only shipping and handling for the DVDs, that won't justify them selling the fansubs. DVDs are very cheap, and those guys can make a lot of profit by just marking up even 1% from their costs.

In the Philippines, you can see pirated DVDs of many asian dramas that sell for just $1-$2 on the average. But how much is a blank DVD? You can buy one for around $0.30 on the average. How many people are buying them? I'd wager that in a single stall selling those DVDs, around 20-30 a day. Even for 30 people buying it, the seller can already gain lots of money. Although our local government is consistently pursuing raids for these illegal sellers, it doesn't seem to be enough--they go when it's hot, and when things cool down, they come back (with a vengeance

)

Coming from the other side of the rod, the sellers don't seem to care where the subtitles came from--most people buying the DVDs don't even have a computer, so even if they read the D-Addicts credits they probably won't understand. This seems to become a subjective matter to me.

My reason for subbing dramas/movies is for my friends and neighbors who doesn't understand the native language to understand them via English subtitles. While I'm against those illegal sellers (hey, they're not only violating fansub copyright, they're also violating the drama/movie copyrights eh?), we can't do anything about it. Let's leave the karma act upon all of us.

Hanazawa Rui · Post by **Hanazawa Rui** » Sep 2nd, '07, 15:34

OMG its soo lame

i cant get it y do ppl steal subs and then sell it
they dont care about the other side how hard it was to work on it

georgeyklee · Post by **georgeyklee** » Sep 23rd, '07, 18:51

sick.

shuurei · Post by **shuurei** » Sep 23rd, '07, 19:59

Hmm...

In the Philippines, most people do not have internet connections at home, much less computers. Even if they do, they only have dial up connections, not dsl or broadband so downloading is not an option.

Well, I actually learned that doramas exist early this year when I was made to buy one (Nodame Cantabile) from a local seller who swore that it was good. I even thought that it was original but the cheap prince made me think otherwise. So, I tought it was ripped from the original dvd set but I later found out that it was fansubbed. But now, I know better and I have broadband connection already, so I'm making the downloads myself. I've just finished downloading hana kimi up to episode 10, and I'm currently downloading yamada tarou, yama onna kabe onna and others.

I really applaud all the fansubbers because of their dedication and their generosity, plus the quality of their subs is really a feat in itself. On this note, from the bottom of my heart, I'd like to thank all the fansubbers. If not for your works, I wouldn't have known the joy of watching doramas.

However, I think that fansubs are not entirely free. To download, you must have an internet connection (broadband and dsl) and it's not cheap, plus you have to pay electicity bills. Well, I believe that there are some who even download from their office computers, which is just as bad as selling the downloaded ones. But in the end, it all help spread and promote the popularity of the doramas and of the actors and I think, that is one good outcome that could outweigh the bad, or if not, at least compensate for the damage done, sort of like the end justifies the means. Come to think of it, the reality is that one cannot just simply complain about illegality if the premise or origin itself is illegal. I'm quite sure the fansubbers are quite aware of this and of the risks involved.

As I end this monologue, I'd like to point out that there are some people who download fansubs from the net but badgers the fansubbers to release the next episode as if the fansubbers don't have their own lives, work or school, and thinks that the fansubbers should be at their beck and call. That is just as worse as selling fansubs for profit.

kiokukonseki · Post by **kiokukonseki** » Oct 31st, '08, 18:06

To all subbers and subbing groups.

we recently received an e-mail from someone watching our subs.
There's someone selling Hard-fan-subs.

check this site (http://iyaan.livejournal.com/profile) if you want to know if your projects are being sold as well. There's an e-mail adress to write this user.

ja ne
a kioku member

nadesico · Post by **nadesico** » Oct 31st, '08, 18:38

I checked his/her LJ and I can't believe my eyes. The guts she /he must have to do this, and in addition, she/he is a member of the j-dramas community! I think they should know about this, and man, it's such a rip-off; I'm properly flabbergasted .

toyotaku · Post by **toyotaku** » Oct 31st, '08, 18:43

I'm beginning to feel like I'm never going to be able to see a subbed jdrama again after all you guys are going through.

AkumaX · Post by **AkumaX** » Oct 31st, '08, 19:01

selling hard copies of fansubs has been around since the hardsubbing of fansubs (anime or drama), its nothing new.
want to see an even more comprehensive list? go here: http://www.aniload.com

toyotaku · Post by **toyotaku** » Oct 31st, '08, 19:20

AkumaX wrote:selling hard copies of fansubs has been around since the hardsubbing of fansubs (anime or drama), its nothing new.
want to see an even more comprehensive list? go here: http://www.aniload.com

Okay, now I feel physically ill. I'd never seen that particular site before. The streaming thread and now this are seriously depressing because I've so loved everyone's incredible work & selfless sharing here (even when leeches like me beg for continued softsubs). Part of my wanting to get into uploading raws was feeling like it was one way I could give back & contribute & now it seems like nothing against the fight to protect the mere continued existence of fansubs. **sigh**

AkumaX · Post by **AkumaX** » Oct 31st, '08, 19:30

toyotaku wrote:
AkumaX wrote:selling hard copies of fansubs has been around since the hardsubbing of fansubs (anime or drama), its nothing new.
want to see an even more comprehensive list? go here: http://www.aniload.com
Okay, now I feel physically ill. I'd never seen that particular site before. The streaming thread and now this are seriously depressing because I've so loved everyone's incredible work & selfless sharing here (even when leeches like me beg for continued softsubs). Part of my wanting to get into uploading raws was feeling like it was one way I could give back & contribute & now it seems like nothing against the fight to protect the mere continued existence of fansubs. **sigh**

right. you know, if they weren't "selling" it but instead just spreading the dramas AT COST, it would be fine. but it's a for-profit site, and no one here agrees with that.
the only thing we can do is make sure that the people that actually buys these things know that they can get it for FREE @ d-addicts.
- hence, hardsubbing more messages and announcements onto the video.
it's just something we have to accept in this "free-for-all" internet.

lynchmob72 · Post by **lynchmob72** » Nov 1st, '08, 03:03

Way to get your point across! Your gonna use other peoples work no matter what!
You guys pissed off a lot of subbing teams, and i think they are taking a little time off.

How welll will your site do without new content? Will your advertisers stay with you? Not if i can help it!

This is a call out to all TRUE D-Addicts fans. These people are abusing the very people that bring so much joy into our lives. I ask that you protect the people that have hooked you up.

Go to these sites... and contact the sponsors. Don't be afraid to tell them that you won't buy their product.
Let's stand together and end this!

okumasama · Post by **okumasama** » Jan 22nd, '09, 21:50

OMG! I read this many years later and I see how stupid I was to get consumed with problems like who's selling what and everything. Consumed enough to start this thread and go on flames about it. Don't take it seriously everybody, just watch the dramas and enjoy it...

lovejdorama · Post by **lovejdorama** » Jun 20th, '09, 22:08

my friend recently sold printer inks on ebay to an ebay seller who turned out to be selling subbed taiwanese dramas that came from here (d-addicts.com). my friend now has the seller's name and address. any ideas what we should do about this ebay seller?
the seller has hundreds of these dramas sold already since his feedback rating has reached almost 700 already. he really is cashing in on the hardwork of the fansubbers. tsk tsk.

archive18 · Post by **archive18** » Jun 20th, '09, 22:21

Stone them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asian DramaWiki Forum

What you think about people selling fansubs for profit?

What you think about people selling fansubs for profit?

Not everyone has Internet...

Fansub's being sold in Livejournal.

Good job Subs Stealers!

ebay seller

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