Japanese stations request file deletions on YouTube

toyotaku · Post by **toyotaku** » Oct 20th, '06, 14:53

Saw this in this morning's edition of Japan Today:

YouTube deletes 29,549 video files after request by TV stations

Friday, October 20, 2006 at 15:36 EDT
TOKYO — The U.S. video-sharing website YouTube has deleted 29,549 video clips after 23 Japanese TV stations, movie and music companies requested they be removed, saying they were posted without the authorization of copyright holders, a Japanese association said Friday.

Video clips of TV programs, music promotion videos and movies were found to be posted on the site, according to research conducted Oct 2-6 by the Japan Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers (JASRAC), which made the request on behalf of the 23 entities. YouTube makes available free of charge on the Internet more than 60,000 short video clips per day uploaded by people from around the world. Some files are feared to cause copyright violations.

Old news? No news? (I know YouTube had been taking measures to stop u/ling of drama eps.) Anyone & everyone just out to get YouTube or a reaction to it being sold to Google? Any concern for a site like d-addicts?

sourbodhi · Post by **sourbodhi** » Oct 20th, '06, 15:02

oh no i hope they don't come knocking on the door at d-addicts too. i know it's somewhat of an infringement of copyright, but most people outside of japan(like myself) can only rely on the internet for good quality subbed jdrama.

lolita637 · Post by **lolita637** » Oct 20th, '06, 15:06

that's a lot of videos wow.. I'm starting to use Dailymotion.com

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Oct 20th, '06, 17:09

sourbodhi wrote:oh no i hope they don't come knocking on the door at d-addicts too. i know it's somewhat of an infringement of copyright, but most people outside of japan(like myself) can only rely on the internet for good quality subbed jdrama.

However, YouTube is used by tons of Japanese people, unlike d-addicts, thus JASRAC's concern. I doubt JASRAC even knows about d-addicts.

BitTorrent sites aren't very popular in Japan...most Japanese filesharers use Winny or Share. Or they watch videos on YouTube.

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 20th, '06, 19:01

Well, now that they're becoming a division of a publicly traded company like Google, they have to start cleaning house - not only of the JASRAC content, but of ALL copyright violations. Right now, they're basically sailing the same ship Napster did back in the late 1990s. I don't think Google would've purchased YouTube knowning that they'd have hundreds of lawsuits in their future. YouTube's now well-known worldwide; now is the time to start changing their business model.

--- groink

aNToK · Post by **aNToK** » Oct 20th, '06, 19:23

Hmm... On a very related note, this action is EXACTLY in line with one of my top 2 or 3 reasons to not allow dramas I've worked on to be shared on YouTube, and to go to the lengths I do to get them removed when they're found.

Though I also know that thus far the MPAA has been able to do very little to slow down the appearance of licensed vids in various BT venues, but that can always change. Waving copyright violations in the faces of the industry is not the best way of ensuring that we will all keep getting our little download jollies...

blamvitaburst · Post by **blamvitaburst** » Oct 20th, '06, 19:39

I hope they don't stop this form of dispersal. Youtube can suckanut, but I've been a long time d-addict (although I only just signed up for an account today because I felt like becoming social) and without this I don't know what I'd do for entertainment! I don't have cable and everything that's on cable is BORING. Also, I can't afford to buy DVDs. Poor college student here, hello! Sometimes I think copyrights are just there to make it so that poor people don't get to have any fun at all in life without feeling like criminals. X( I'll be too old and busy with work to have time to watch anything fun by the time I can afford to buy DVD's, anyway!

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 20th, '06, 19:55

blamvitaburst wrote:I hope they don't stop this form of dispersal.y!

Not to come down hard on you...

But everyone must understand one thing: Company A has absolutely no right to take copyrighted material from Company B and share it with the world because "It's the right thing to do", "streaming is the wave of the future", "It will boost sales", "It will boost fanship" etc. It is very easy for a fan to lose logical thinking to the hands of promoting his love or lifestyle. Company B on the otherhand has EVERY RIGHT to do whatever it wants with its content, including the method of distribution and the target audience. A fan's drive to spread Japanese shows across the world is NOT his right.

So although blamvitaburst believes that he can't live without Japanese shows, he should learn to do so. Just because the addiction has affected thousands of people, that does not make it right for people to continue the distribution process for the sake of the addicts. There are legal means, such as subscribing to Japanese TV networks, learning Japanese and renting raw material (what I'm doing now), buying raw videos from YesAsia, etc.

Like both aNToK and myself have been saying all this time, let's keep the distribution under the radar, and don't make attempts to spread Japanese dramas to the masses - especially on a publicly-traded service like YouTube or Microsoft.

--- groink

blamvitaburst · Post by **blamvitaburst** » Oct 20th, '06, 20:12

I didn't say I wanted it on YouTube, I was talking about the d-addicts bittorrent file sharing in that sentence. I never watched anything on YouTube. I just hope that sharing on bittorrent continues (a prior poster mentioned it being possible for this site to get shut down and I was responding to that, not watching things on YouTube) because right now I can't afford to do any of the things you listed in your post and so I wouldn't be able to continue to watch any form of TV at all without d-addicts bittorent sharing. Which would suck. I'd get over it, but you have to admit that it's a good way to de-stress and forget your problems. I guess I'd get into Library books or free legal streams off of cable TV websites (I hear they're getting more prevalent). Neither of which would compare with the amount of fun I get from d-addicts related downloads, but there are alternatives and if I get cut off then I get cut off. I hope YouTube never has another file from d-addicts on it again, though. I think that's crappy and I am 100% against it. Sorry for writing that in a confusing way.

oddglit · Post by **oddglit** » Oct 21st, '06, 00:40

considering the profit d-addicts makes from hosting the trackers of the doramas i wont be surprised if this site will get shut down soon by the JASRAC.

also considering youtube quality(320X240) is pretty poor and only 10 minuets max in length
compared to daddicts where you can download entire series in HD quality i am shocked why the JASRAC haven't jumped on d-addicts but ordered youtube to pull 26,000 of videos.

Anyway the time has been good.

Like both aNToK and myself have been saying all this time, let's keep the distribution under the radar

type the roman title of any jdorama into google and this site pops up so it is exactly "under the radar". They will soon realize that a DVD series of a drama that sells for just under $200 and has been downloaded for free by over 6000 people i can see why the JASRAC are persistent to close sites like these.

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 21st, '06, 00:50

oddglit wrote:considering the profit d-addicts makes from hosting the trackers of the doramas i wont be surprised if this site will get shut down soon by the JASRAC.

I believe that one day JASRAC will at least remove all Japanese content from D-Addicts. But, they won't take down D-Addicts. I think Ruroshin would get rid of the JASRAC material before shutting down (as he did with the movies.) Other Asian industries will do its own thing, so it is on an industry-by-industry basis. Considering Japanese-related material accounts for 65-percent of all the torrents (it's accurate - I just now did the math), that would be a huge chunk gone from D-A.

--- groink

aNToK · Post by **aNToK** » Oct 21st, '06, 00:57

@oddglit: compare the thousands of D-Addicts members and downloads to the millions upon millions on YouTube and then get back to me on that. Under the Radar is a relative term and the exposure isn't even close to comperable.

geoff2005 · Post by **geoff2005** » Oct 21st, '06, 17:42

no more crazy japanese shows. sucks

babakubo · Post by **babakubo** » Oct 21st, '06, 21:04

I do have an issue with JASRAC and Youtube, but it's more about music videos than dramas. Honestly, I'm surprised people actually post and watch jdramas on Youtube . . the quality is so poor that you can barely make out the subtitles.

I would be really depressed if JASRAC ever closed down d-addicts, but it would be justifiable. Unlike music videos, which I'm sure lead to more sales of CDs, I doubt that downloaded jdramas lead to sales of *genuine* jdrama DVDs, with their much higher cost ($150/season or so?) and their lack of subtitles. C'mon, fess up, have you ever bought the DVDs after watching a good series via d-addicts?

Then again, if ideally everyone who watched a jdrama they enjoyed and bought the R2 DVDs as a result, I doubt JASRAC would still notice the link between sales and bittorrent.

Wait, were we talking about Youtube? Sorry. ^_^;

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 21st, '06, 21:13

ushiushi wrote:I do have an issue with JASRAC and Youtube, but it's more about music videos than dramas.

As I indicated earlier, it is not YouTube's position or right to take a copyrighted work and do something with it against the copyright owner's wishes. It isn't JASRAC that you should be attacking; it is their clients you should be addressing. For example, Johnny's Jimusho is one of JASRAC's clients. Johnny is well known for keeping heavy restrictions (and enforcing them) on how their merchandise are being used - including photos, PVs, TV shows and dramas.

Although everyone of us have our opinions on how we feel our favorite artists should be promoted, it comes down to the owners themselves. I have many ideas on how Sakai Noriko can make a come-back. But it is not my right to be taking her videos and music, and sharing it across the Internet without first consulting Sun Music.

--- groink

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 21st, '06, 21:39

Check out this C-Net article. Makes you think twice before posting any copyright protected content onto YouTube.

--- groink

babakubo · Post by **babakubo** » Oct 21st, '06, 21:42

groink wrote: As I indicated earlier, it is not YouTube's position or right to take a copyrighted work and do something with it against the copyright owner's wishes. It isn't JASRAC that you should be attacking; it is their clients you should be addressing. For example, Johnny's Jimusho is one of JASRAC's clients. Johnny is well known for keeping heavy restrictions (and enforcing them) on how their merchandise are being used - including photos, PVs, TV shows and dramas.

Although everyone of us have our opinions on how we feel our favorite artists should be promoted, it comes down to the owners themselves. I have many ideas on how Sakai Noriko can make a come-back. But it is not my right to be taking her videos and music, and sharing it across the Internet without first consulting Sun Music.

--- groink

Hmm, interesting, thanks for some insight on this issue. I guess my main gripe is that a lot of American music labels have been making deals with Youtube recently to allow the videos to stay up and be used in user videos. However, the Japanese industry generally appears to be much more protective and doesn't even appear to want to negotiate at all. I just don't think they realize the advertising potential that many American music labels have. At least, it doesn't seem like Youtube has hurt jpop sales, the usual suspects still sell as much as they always have. I think Youtube might've even helped that Tarako song, the one sanctioned Japanese video I know of, sell more singles than you'd expect (though I'm not entirely sure)

Again, sorry for going on a tangent. ^_^;

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 21st, '06, 22:01

The big idea behind the whole issue is that by allowing a 3rd-party partner to handle promotions, it takes away all possibilities of building up its own Internet presence. The whole idea of having an Internet presence is for people to visit your company's portal, rather than visiting a 3rd-party partner. A company's portal should be THE umbrella for ALL of its entertainment needs. If it scatter its content across multiple sites, the company's presence becomes weaker and weaker.

For example, NBC is allowing YouTube to stream their content. IMHO, I think this is a bad Internet strategic move because NBC no longer has full control of the content, and their presence at their primary portal, NBC.com is losing viewership to youtube.com. Most people will be hitting YouTube for The Fear Factor and ER, rather than going to NBC.com and seeing their other projects, such as NBC Sports, CNBC, MSNBC, etc. As another example, eBay banned AuctionWatch from scraping and displaying eBay items on AuctionWatch's web site. eBay claims (and I agree with them) that it takes people away from eBay. Even though people were still bidding on eBay items, they weren't experiencing the presence of eBay.com's other components, such as their message boards, promotions, etc.

Coming back to Japanese entertainment... A few months ago, many of the Japanese TV networks publicly announced intentions of streaming their programming using their own internal means. If they allow JASRAC to basically let YouTube handle streaming for them, then portals like TBS.co.jp, NHK.or.jp and so forth will lose viewership. Not only that, YouTube would not be presenting their works in the best of their interests. You may not see it right now, but eventually YouTube will start displaying advertising of other vendors on all their pages. TV Asahi would not want an ad for Nippon TV to be displayed next to an episode of MUSIC STATION. By allowing the TV networks to configure their own portals, they have full control of how their merchandise is presented.

Simply, it is Internet Marketing 101... It is best that you build up your own portal so that you retain 100-percent control of everything: how your products are presented, and the whole experience of the site itself.

--- groink

oceansportrait · Post by **oceansportrait** » Oct 24th, '06, 00:10

ushiushi wrote:I do have an issue with JASRAC and Youtube, but it's more about music videos than dramas. Honestly, I'm surprised people actually post and watch jdramas on Youtube . . the quality is so poor that you can barely make out the subtitles.

I would be really depressed if JASRAC ever closed down d-addicts, but it would be justifiable. Unlike music videos, which I'm sure lead to more sales of CDs, I doubt that downloaded jdramas lead to sales of *genuine* jdrama DVDs, with their much higher cost ($150/season or so?) and their lack of subtitles. C'mon, fess up, have you ever bought the DVDs after watching a good series via d-addicts?

Then again, if ideally everyone who watched a jdrama they enjoyed and bought the R2 DVDs as a result, I doubt JASRAC would still notice the link between sales and bittorrent.

Wait, were we talking about Youtube? Sorry. ^_^;

I've bought DVDs after watching good series. But then again, I understand Japanese, and I have a Book Off nearby where I can buy used authentic Japanese R2 DVDs for fraction of the price ^^ I have though, purchased new R2 DVDs, but they're mostly movies and not dramas.

Cefuroxime · Post by **Cefuroxime** » Nov 21st, '06, 17:47

I had my account deleted for such purpose.

But I received two e-mails before they did so.

ianwarren · Post by **ianwarren** » Nov 22nd, '06, 01:36

this may be a totally pointless comment but I don't think that d-addicts is doing any harm.

I mean we seed files that have even kept the programmes sponsors in! I've watched Tiger and Dragon and had a craving for a Coca Cola after I see their logo pop up so they're definately making back their advertising revenue from me

Just out of interest how illegal are TV torrents? I ask because a big UK film magazine has a web forum and it would always lock threads about film torrents, but they kept the forum about the American TV show Lost going even though people talked about downloading shows because they said it was something of a legal 'grey area'.

Do Japanese TV channels charge a Licence fee like the BBC in England? Because fair enough if viewers technically have to pay to watch the channels that they are on then there would be some kind of argument there but if they are free to any person in Japan with a TV then why shouldn't they be free to the rest of the world?

groink · Post by **groink** » Nov 22nd, '06, 02:52

ianwarren wrote:Do Japanese TV channels charge a Licence fee like the BBC in England? Because fair enough if viewers technically have to pay to watch the channels that they are on then there would be some kind of argument there but if they are free to any person in Japan with a TV then why shouldn't they be free to the rest of the world?

In Japan, there is a TV "tax" in place which is called hoso ho. However, my understanding is that all the money collected go to the government-run TV network NHK. NHK is also the only network I know of who offer licensing of their transmissions to people outside of Japan. NHK charges a licensing fee of 3000 yen per month for their World Premium service, which you can catch via satellite transmission.

As for non-government networks (i.e. all but NHK), each have their own licensing fees. Fuji TV, for example, license their TV shows to Nippon Golden Network for a fee. All subscribers to NGN must pay the licensing fees as part of the monthly subscription. There is also an act in Japan called Hobankyo, which allows a company to capture TV shows to DVD or video tape, and then rent them out to people in and outside of Japan. Part of the rental fees go back to Hobankyo to cover the licensing costs.

So in all, Japanese TV may be "mostly" free for the Japanese residence. But definitely not free for the people outside of Japan. And the Japanese companies have made this very clear.

One other comment I want to make regarding the use of TV content for fan-use... I've mentioned this in other topics where when Company X publishes Company Y's TV content without their permission, Company X is basically mis-representing Company Y's intellectual property. Even if Company Y has no intention of publishing its content on-line, it still doesn't give Company X a right to do whatever it wants with the content. This is the argument I see time and time again between YouTube users and the entertainment industry. YouTube users feel that they have every right to promote their favorite entertainment whatever way they want to, and that it is almost a "right" for them to do so as fans. Fans must understand that promoting their favorite entertainment like this, whether it is the "logical" thing to do, is just not the "legal" way to go about it. It is not up to the fans to help promote Japanese entertainment when the owners of these products don't want the help. Feel free to promote your favorite artists through word-of-mouth and through blogs and such. But let the Japanese companies conduct their own promoting strategies through visual and audio mediums.

--- groink

richardli · Post by **richardli** » Nov 27th, '06, 14:57

If you wait a while people will repost the stuff. its a cat and mouse game...people post, they delete.. If its good stuff, they will just keep reposting it

ruisu · Post by **ruisu** » Nov 30th, '06, 23:33

GOOD. Maybe the people who watch those talking pixel blocks will seed some quality vids instead.

Rovam · Post by **Rovam** » Dec 8th, '06, 03:01

I love d-addicts and hope it is here for decades to come, but if the JA---whatever authority decides to stick their nose in, I hope it's only because they finally think, hey! there's a market for this stuff subtitled in english outside of Japan! and start releasing legit subtitled versions.

Toritorisan · Post by **Toritorisan** » Dec 8th, '06, 03:22

groink wrote: In Japan, there is a TV "tax" in place which is called hoso ho. However, my understanding is that all the money collected go to the government-run TV network NHK. NHK is also the only network I know of who offer licensing of their transmissions to people outside of Japan. NHK charges a licensing fee of 3000 yen per month for their World Premium service, which you can catch via satellite transmission.

That NHK tax thing was one thing I never really understood in Japan. When I was living there I remember the NHK man came to my door told me I had to pay tax for NHK. I thought it was unfair cuz I didn't even watch NHK channel, but I had to pay it anyways.

I think it was 1800 yen or something like that. When I told my Japanese friends they said to me (a little too late) that they never answer the door so they don't have to pay.

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Japanese stations request file deletions on YouTube

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