[Discussion] Saki

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Kaiser86
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[Discussion] Saki

Postby Kaiser86 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:12 pm

I'm surprised no one started a discussion on Saki yet.
I thought Utsukushii Rinjin was a great drama, addictive even. So it's great to see Nakama Yukie reprise her role as Saki.

Although I cannot seem to see any direct link between the plot in Saki and the one in Utsukushii Rinjin, there are a lot of hints pointing at Utsukushii Rinjin.

So far I've noticed:

- The rocking chair
- The toy plane in Episode 2
- Her brother is called Hayato
- The cafe with the waterfall in the background also in Episode 2

Anything else you have spotted?

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Postby digitalcoconut » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:48 am

i love Utsukushii Rinjin..

but so far Saki not really appeal to me. im on 3rd episode..

i think because the multiple stories /schemes /relationships to a men Saki involve. not really intense as Utsukushii Rinjin.

complexity are good, but lack of focus making me less interested..

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Postby gz2009 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:52 pm

Here it is being reported that:

"According to the producers, we will see the same ‘Meyer Saki’ we got to know, hate, and love in ‘Utsukushii Rinjin’, but they want to tell us a completely different story rather than forcing a direct sequel. Therefore, it has been also necessary to replace every character except for ‘Saki’."

http://www.tokyohive.com/2012/11/nakama ... rama-saki/

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Postby muschan » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:27 pm

so, Saki is a sequel and not a prequel? I just started watching.

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Postby Kaiser86 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:36 pm

Well...

[spoiler]She dies in the end of Utsukushii Rinjin, so I don't think it can be a sequel[/spoiler]

It doesn't look like it's a prequel either, from what I can understand. It seems to be an alternate story of Saki, which has no ties to Utsukushii Rinjin. But the producers are leaving some hints here and there linking the 2. I haven't noticed anything else apart from those in the original post.

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Postby OO0nMe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:01 am

Haven't seen Utsukushii Rinjin, but my interest is piqued now. For this show the background info is lacking a bit. All I can make up from the pieces of info is that Saki is on a sophisticated killing spree mainly because of pure rage caused by the fact she was thrown away by her orignal parents. The targets can't be all that random though (all men also), maybe some specifiic targets of revenge because those people were the indirect reasons she was cast away.

So far I'm loving this jdrama just for the fact that the interactions with Saki and his victims are pretty painfull to watch. I know I would fall for every trick she used, although certain ones were too good to be true if a guy would take some time to think. It just shows that Chris Rock's sayings in his shows are true: We men just can't run that fast if women are chasing us. :)

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Postby anolibb » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:26 am

I was wondering why there was not a discussion up about this a few days back, since I was curious if anyone finds this series a bit creepy! But it is rather interesting, I really want to see how these people became "part of the story" she says even in the first episode

[spoiler] "that these people are meeting me for the second time" or something like that [/spoiler]

So I cannot wait to see that connection, I hope it will surface one way or another.

Does anyone know what that meat in her fridge is? Gah, her dinners are sometimes a bit too much for me, but those four special delivery bits look like pork chops to me rather than steak but I know nothing about meat. Sorry for such a stupid question, I cannot stop wondering though, because it seems to be such a big deal for her.

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Postby OO0nMe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:31 pm

anolibb wrote:I was wondering why there was not a discussion up about this a few days back, since I was curious if anyone finds this series a bit creepy! But it is rather interesting, I really want to see how these people became "part of the story" she says even in the first episode

[spoiler] "that these people are meeting me for the second time" or something like that [/spoiler]

So I cannot wait to see that connection, I hope it will surface one way or another.

Does anyone know what that meat in her fridge is? Gah, her dinners are sometimes a bit too much for me, but those four special delivery bits look like pork chops to me rather than steak but I know nothing about meat. Sorry for such a stupid question, I cannot stop wondering though, because it seems to be such a big deal for her.


It was creeping me out seeing the titles of all those books regarding psychology and the criminal mind. Either she was trying to become an unbeatable psycho criminal, or she needed that specific knowledge to defeat some of those.

Regarding the meat and her dinners: I think the meat is Wagyuu beef or something similar (very fatty/juicy meat and rather expensive like the abalone and crab). The dinners probably are symbolic for her role and those of the men. Saki as the vicious, cunning carnivore enjoying the spoils of her hunt. The men as juicy, helpless targets just unable to escape their looming demise.

I think she has a steak for every remaining target in her fridge, so it seems like her little brother might also be one of them.

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Postby anolibb » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:01 pm

OO0nMe wrote:It was creeping me out seeing the titles of all those books regarding psychology and the criminal mind. Either she was trying to become an unbeatable psycho criminal, or she needed that specific knowledge to defeat some of those.


It's pretty morbid at times I think (because of these books), but I really want to know her story behind it. I wonder if she ever met them before. It's proper scary when she leads everyone on into her trap. Well, her first target seemed to be easy so far, I look forward to the others though as I expect it's harder when you cannot use alcohol and stuff like that alone to deceive.

OO0nMe wrote:Regarding the meat and her dinners: I think the meat is Wagyuu beef or something similar (very fatty/juicy meat and rather expensive like the abalone and crab). The dinners probably are symbolic for her role and those of the men. Saki as the vicious, cunning carnivore enjoying the spoils of her hunt. The men as juicy, helpless targets just unable to escape their looming demise.

I think she has a steak for every remaining target in her fridge, so it seems like her little brother might also be one of them.


I see, that could be it, it does look expensive...
The number of the meat is the number of the people she is aiming at I think too, but that obsession about the wine, and the year of them having to match in age!!

Good thing the girlfriend looks like she is picking up on the stuff tho, so you never know what's going to happen, hope it won't all go according to Saki's plans though... I have not seen Utsukushii Rinjin either, so I don't know how twisted the story itself could get. I hope she won't try to make Hayato fall for her or anything tho ~ uh.

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Postby Kaiser86 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:56 am

Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but I'll give it a shot. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was watching Tonbi earlier this week, and in that drama, they were discussing buying pork for tonkatsu because it rhymes with katsu, i.e. victory. Could this be a play on that homonym too?

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Postby OO0nMe » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:56 pm

Tonkatsu is deep-fried pork cutlet, so that couldn't be it in this case. And to speak for Saki: just winning doesn't cut it, it's much more vicious like driving them into despair and total obliteration. :)

The girlfriend saw that scene of Saki without the red gloves her brother gave her, but she doesn't seem to have enough backbone to tell on her. The female publisher and the brother on the other hand are more likely to oppose Saki. But the thing is, could see even be prosecuted by law for her actions? And then what about evidence?

Also I think for Saki somewhere there has to be a financial motive too. I mean how come her brother and the other guys don't find it strange that she lives in such an expensive condo? Same for the expensive food and wine. I don't think a nurse makes that much money a year (at least not where I live :P), so that has to come from her victims.

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Postby anolibb » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:18 am

OO0nMe wrote:Tonkatsu is deep-fried pork cutlet, so that couldn't be it in this case. And to speak for Saki: just winning doesn't cut it, it's much more vicious like driving them into despair and total obliteration. :)

The girlfriend saw that scene of Saki without the red gloves her brother gave her, but she doesn't seem to have enough backbone to tell on her. The female publisher and the brother on the other hand are more likely to oppose Saki. But the thing is, could see even be prosecuted by law for her actions? And then what about evidence?

Also I think for Saki somewhere there has to be a financial motive too. I mean how come her brother and the other guys don't find it strange that she lives in such an expensive condo? Same for the expensive food and wine. I don't think a nurse makes that much money a year (at least not where I live :P), so that has to come from her victims.


I think you are right and it is Wagyuu beef. It's just probably very specially selected part of an exclusively reared cattle with all fat trimmed off from around it.

Effectively I was told that psychological bullying can end in physical harm in the eye of the law. But then again I think it is a constant debate over cases of establishing the facts and evidences, so it must be very hard.

In Saki's case I don't think it's that easy to drive someone off to suicide. Hence I think her first target with that "abnormality" of his was easier to bully, I want to see her action in the following ones, the hospital director and Hayato seems to be a little bit more "down to earth".

I did wonder about money too, she is able to spend so much! I also found that weird from a nurse's pay so I think there will be an answer coming to that.

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Postby OO0nMe » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:10 am

Wow, lots of big revelations in EP06! I can't decide which one is bigger though.

Nice display of some classic (imho :P) female charms. You just don't want a beautiful woman to be angry with you or making her cry. :D Also good to see that the little brother is doubting Saki's feelings/intentions, as she's apparently moved on from her dead boyfriend (the lawyer) to the airco man that quickly. Ofcourse she would have a good excuse if she tells him they broke up earlier because the guy was deeply in love with someone else, but that would also give people new leads to how she did IT.

Regarding the revelations: I was wrong about the number of steaks. Only 3 left in the fridge, so that means the airco man, director and wine guy. The little brother therefore shouldn't be a target, unless she kills two birds with one stone...

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Postby anolibb » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:08 am

I have seen half of ep6 and I am also glad to see some suspicion rising. Shame she never leaves any evidence.

Though I have to admit, despite wanting to know the background story, I could never re-watch this show.

I was wondering about the number of steaks, but I think they did that on purpose, for the viewers not to know whether in the end it's the wine man or the little brother. Or alternatively, she is planning something of an even bigger feast for the little brother.

I thought that the amount of books she has also must have cost a fortune. Her room almost looks like an expensive university library. Strange, really.

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Postby nadesico » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:39 am

Hello! I'm so happy there's a thread for Saki. I've started watching it yesterday and I've been on a roll since^^ Many, many questions , and points of view to be shared on this drama.
First, I couldn't understand what Saki gained from driving people to suicide. I thought there was some kind of financial gain, but it doesn't seem to be the case, even though I'm kind of surprised by the way she lives: luxury condo, lavish food and wine...
Secondly, even though it's pretty obvious she doesn't have people well-being at heart, the way she manages to unsettle people's lives around her raises, for me at least, all kind of questions. I mean, of course she's a manipulative, cold-hearted and cold-blooded woman , but we can wonder about how , unconsciously, her victims allow her to take power on them. It's not that I'm blaming them, because every time, she seems well documented about their weaknesses, still, she barges into their lives,seemingly giving them something they lack (love, or the promise of love, self-confidence), and without realizing it, they give her complete command of their lives. I suppose that's the way gurus in sects act:pointing at your flaws and selling you the promise of relief. What I mean is: in what extent it is acceptable to subject oneself to someone's judgement, and to relinquish a part of one's will to someone? When does one start to lose control? I think those are the questions ,among many others, raised by this drama.
Thirdly, when does she get time to investigate on her victims? That baffles me lol
And concerning the food, I think it's pretty symbolic: she's a woman who enjoys "devouring" her victims, and that makes her pretty monstruous.
Well, I'll stop my essay here, I'm looking forward to discuss with other viewers^^

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Postby sambart » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:48 pm

I think I might have to drop this dorama. It's interesting and mysterious but for me it's also it's too heart breaking and emotional for me to watch (I'm one of those that cares a lot for actors and can easily fall to like characters) and the main character is such an evil beech who is causing my heart to break with what happens to all the other characters </3

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Postby OO0nMe » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:28 pm

nadesico wrote:Hello! I'm so happy there's a thread for Saki. I've started watching it yesterday and I've been on a roll since^^ Many, many questions , and points of view to be shared on this drama.
First, I couldn't understand what Saki gained from driving people to suicide. I thought there was some kind of financial gain, but it doesn't seem to be the case, even though I'm kind of surprised by the way she lives: luxury condo, lavish food and wine...
Secondly, even though it's pretty obvious she doesn't have people well-being at heart, the way she manages to unsettle people's lives around her raises, for me at least, all kind of questions. I mean, of course she's a manipulative, cold-hearted and cold-blooded woman , but we can wonder about how , unconsciously, her victims allow her to take power on them. It's not that I'm blaming them, because every time, she seems well documented about their weaknesses, still, she barges into their lives,seemingly giving them something they lack (love, or the promise of love, self-confidence), and without realizing it, they give her complete command of their lives. I suppose that's the way gurus in sects act:pointing at your flaws and selling you the promise of relief. What I mean is: in what extent it is acceptable to subject oneself to someone's judgement, and to relinquish a part of one's will to someone? When does one start to lose control? I think those are the questions ,among many others, raised by this drama.
Thirdly, when does she get time to investigate on her victims? That baffles me lol
And concerning the food, I think it's pretty symbolic: she's a woman who enjoys "devouring" her victims, and that makes her pretty monstruous.
Well, I'll stop my essay here, I'm looking forward to discuss with other viewers^^


Regarding the motives of Saki: In EP6 she did speculate (after receiving mild accusations from her brother) that it would be normal for others to suspect her to do all those things as a way to get revenge on those people. Note that she brought up the revenge part herself, it might be a slight slip up or just another smoke screen.

I think the victims allow her so much power over their lives is because, looking from a third person perspective, she actually did help them to improve their lives. I mean, the lawyer was tortured for 7 long years regarding his 'issue'' and couldnt find a partner. Through Saki he found salvation and peace, after that it was his own choice to commit suicide as not to cause damage to the person he loves so much.

Same with the airco man, who's self depreciative and lacking any confidence, courage and ambition. Saki gave him that confidence and inspired him to be reborn as a new man. Again it was his own choice to stand up to his bullies at work in such an extreme way.

The scary part is that Saki (with all her knowledge on psychology and research of her victims) probably knew that the lawyer would do that to protect his sister and that the airco man had an explosive nature hidden underneath his cowardice. Remember the evil look in his eyes when he met the little brother and thought that probably was Saki's boyfriend.

Your third point is quite interesting, as she really doesn't have any time at all to investigate due to all those 'coincidental' events she is setting up with her victims. I think she doesn't need to or has done that already because like she said: They don't realise that they're already meeting each other for the second time.

This is a great show for some discussion and speculation, can't wait to see what happens next.

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Postby Kaiser86 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:27 pm

OO0nMe wrote:
nadesico wrote:Hello! I'm so happy there's a thread for Saki. I've started watching it yesterday and I've been on a roll since^^ Many, many questions , and points of view to be shared on this drama.
First, I couldn't understand what Saki gained from driving people to suicide. I thought there was some kind of financial gain, but it doesn't seem to be the case, even though I'm kind of surprised by the way she lives: luxury condo, lavish food and wine...
Secondly, even though it's pretty obvious she doesn't have people well-being at heart, the way she manages to unsettle people's lives around her raises, for me at least, all kind of questions. I mean, of course she's a manipulative, cold-hearted and cold-blooded woman , but we can wonder about how , unconsciously, her victims allow her to take power on them. It's not that I'm blaming them, because every time, she seems well documented about their weaknesses, still, she barges into their lives,seemingly giving them something they lack (love, or the promise of love, self-confidence), and without realizing it, they give her complete command of their lives. I suppose that's the way gurus in sects act:pointing at your flaws and selling you the promise of relief. What I mean is: in what extent it is acceptable to subject oneself to someone's judgement, and to relinquish a part of one's will to someone? When does one start to lose control? I think those are the questions ,among many others, raised by this drama.
Thirdly, when does she get time to investigate on her victims? That baffles me lol
And concerning the food, I think it's pretty symbolic: she's a woman who enjoys "devouring" her victims, and that makes her pretty monstruous.
Well, I'll stop my essay here, I'm looking forward to discuss with other viewers^^


Regarding the motives of Saki: In EP6 she did speculate (after receiving mild accusations from her brother) that it would be normal for others to suspect her to do all those things as a way to get revenge on those people. Note that she brought up the revenge part herself, it might be a slight slip up or just another smoke screen.

I think the victims allow her so much power over their lives is because, looking from a third person perspective, she actually did help them to improve their lives. I mean, the lawyer was tortured for 7 long years regarding his 'issue'' and couldnt find a partner. Through Saki he found salvation and peace, after that it was his own choice to commit suicide as not to cause damage to the person he loves so much.

Same with the airco man, who's self depreciative and lacking any confidence, courage and ambition. Saki gave him that confidence and inspired him to be reborn as a new man. Again it was his own choice to stand up to his bullies at work in such an extreme way.

The scary part is that Saki (with all her knowledge on psychology and research of her victims) probably knew that the lawyer would do that to protect his sister and that the airco man had an explosive nature hidden underneath his cowardice. Remember the evil look in his eyes when he met the little brother and thought that probably was Saki's boyfriend.

Your third point is quite interesting, as she really doesn't have any time at all to investigate due to all those 'coincidental' events she is setting up with her victims. I think she doesn't need to or has done that already because like she said: They don't realise that they're already meeting each other for the second time.

This is a great show for some discussion and speculation, can't wait to see what happens next.


Well, in the opening of every episode she does say that the victims don't know that they're meeting her for the second time, as you mentioned. She must have met them, and researched them, beforehand. Remember that when she met the airco man at the bookstore, on her way back home she mentions his name, Honda, without him ever telling her at the shop. So she knew who he is and targeted him specifically.

The idea that she researched them beforehand may not be such a big surprise for those who watched Utsukushii Rinjin. In fact you might remember that after the incident with her son, she locked herself at an internet cafe and researched for ages until she found out about Eriko's blog, and then everything about her life, husband etc. This is not a sequel, as mentioned in previous posts, but the character is the same, so that side of her obsessive personality might make a comeback.

I have my doubts if the wine guy is one of the victims. I think she might be using him as a tool to target the Director. She still has 3 steaks, so my guess is Honda the airco man, the Director and her "brother" (which I doubt is true at all).

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Postby OO0nMe » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:50 pm

So they finally revealed (some of) Saki's motives to target those guys in EP7. Funny to see those flashback scenes when she still was pure and innocent until the event at the hospital.

If I had to guess the full motives I would say: Some of the targets (owner of IT company, the lawyer) were responsible for scamming Saki's parents, causing huge financial trouble for their factory and ultimately their decision to abandon Saki. The others (wine guy & director, airco man) were somehow responsible for the death of her biological mother, maybe medical errors or malfunctioning airco causing some kind of lungdisease.

So in the end, it's just gruesome payback in tenfold. :) The only enigma is her brother, I definitely still think they are family. Maybe it was just easier to get to the laywer through him, or maybe she still has a big surprise for him left ;)

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Postby Kaiser86 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:05 am

OO0nMe wrote:
If I had to guess the full motives I would say: Some of the targets (owner of IT company, the lawyer) were responsible for scamming Saki's parents, causing huge financial trouble for their factory and ultimately their decision to abandon Saki. The others (wine guy & director, airco man) were somehow responsible for the death of her biological mother, maybe medical errors or malfunctioning airco causing some kind of lungdisease.


Seem like you hit the nail right on the head here :)

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Postby OO0nMe » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:50 pm

Kaiser86 wrote:
OO0nMe wrote:
If I had to guess the full motives I would say: Some of the targets (owner of IT company, the lawyer) were responsible for scamming Saki's parents, causing huge financial trouble for their factory and ultimately their decision to abandon Saki. The others (wine guy & director, airco man) were somehow responsible for the death of her biological mother, maybe medical errors or malfunctioning airco causing some kind of lungdisease.


Seem like you hit the nail right on the head here :)


Hehe, I love to speculate and see some of the guessing being corect. In retrospect Saki really slipped up for a moment and told her little brother that it was revenge. The director probably abused his authority to give his son priority for surgery over the more urgent situation of Saki's mother. The involvement of the others remain unknown however.

There were also some hard to believe scenes in EP7 though. I would be creeped the hell out if someone told me a little story about stealing someone's husband that resembled your own life so much, let alone be thankfull to her. She even outdone herself later with the awkward story she told the director about what she did each year on the day her mother died, I would have kicked her out of the house immediately. :D So no wonder he told his son to stop seeing her afterwards without giving him a reason.

After thinking about the steaks, I realised one thing: Saki probably isn't going to finish off the wine guy and director one by one, but in one swoop. In that case it would be a bit weird for her to be eating two steaks at once for dinner (although I did try that once myself, bad idea :P). So I think that means only one steak will symbolise those targets and there's one left for her brother! I'm not sure why, but maybe he was a very unfilial kid in his younger years before working as a journalist (joining a biker gang/yakuza causing the mother to have bad bloodpressure/health :D)

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Postby OO0nMe » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:35 pm

One thing I like about this show is seeing the inevitable moment the trap is being sprung. The best example so far is in EP 10 when the wine guy returns home to question his dad, the director, in front of his mother. When he realise he can't convincingly explain the earring, shaving his mustache and visiting Saki's appartment, he knows he is tricked and in deep ****. :D

My wild speculation regarding the roles of the 5 victims in the death of Saki's mother seems a bit off. For now it just seems like the laywer, IT owner and airco man caused some kind of traffic jam, causing the ambulance to be late. The part about the wine guy and Director could still be spot on, as Saki's mother was sent to another hospital that was further away in stead of the closest one.

Another good call regarding the steaks, she only ate one for the whole family. For the wine, she took the year in which the family has been created (marriage year I guess). I do feel that Saki is a bit wrong regarding her revenge in this case. The main culprit should be the Director, so the wife and wine guy are mere collateral damage.

And yes, I knew the little brother was not as nice as he looks. Curious to see what he did, maybe he was the first one responsible for the traffic jam due to his part-time job. Looking at the preview, it seems like Saki is going to punish him by killing herself. Well one moment having found your long lost sister and the other moment being the only one left alive of your family does hurt...

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Postby Kaiser86 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:03 pm

Wow.. that was an intense end to the series. Finally all the victims' roles to the death of the mother has been revealed.

And finally...
[spoiler]
The link to Utsukushii Rinjin! So it does seem that this was a true prequel after all. Although she doesn't mention the child's name, I'm sure what she meant was Hayato, which is her son's name on the series.
[/spoiler]

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Postby OO0nMe » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:18 am

Intense indeed, some noteworthy points:
-Saki actually gets away unscathed with what she did!! And she should as those were fine examples of perfect crimes. And you could argue most of them weren't even crimes from the point of view of the victims. I like the fact that they don't let justice prevail like they always do in movies, especially in this case where there is no evidence at all.

-In the end Saki is no heroic avenger but just a wicked woman as the title suggests. If you look closely, the IT owner and airco man only stalled for like 20 secs each. The hospital director however delayed them for over 20 minutes (travelling to the other hospital, not counting the time they already used for being underway to the first one), so he was the only one 'deserving' that kind of revenge. Saki has no mercy though and gives all 5 of them the same treatment.

I didn't get the ending, so thanks for explaining that, makes sense. However, who's the father of that child?

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Postby Sakuya » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:11 am

Wow, that was a really good ending and in the end, made me feel sorry for Saki. I think this series is very original and interesting. I enjoyed it more than Utsukushii Rinjin actually. Hoping for an OST!

[spoiler]I felt it was kind of weird for Nitta's coworkers to just let Saki go after all the research they did. But I guess that's all they could do without any evidence.[/spoiler]
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Postby mtwini09 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:29 am

Good ending for the series, and clears up some confusion from the link to Utsukushii Rinjin. Utsukushii must therefore take place around ~2020 because for her son to grow to (Was it 6?) and then a year after his death, that's roughly where it would be based. Saki was really good though, not sure which series I prefer :D

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Postby xioncloudheaven » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:31 pm

OO0nMe wrote:Intense indeed, some noteworthy points:
-Saki actually gets away unscathed with what she did!! And she should as those were fine examples of perfect crimes. And you could argue most of them weren't even crimes from the point of view of the victims. I like the fact that they don't let justice prevail like they always do in movies, especially in this case where there is no evidence at all.

-In the end Saki is no heroic avenger but just a wicked woman as the title suggests. If you look closely, the IT owner and airco man only stalled for like 20 secs each. The hospital director however delayed them for over 20 minutes (travelling to the other hospital, not counting the time they already used for being underway to the first one), so he was the only one 'deserving' that kind of revenge. Saki has no mercy though and gives all 5 of them the same treatment.

I didn't get the ending, so thanks for explaining that, makes sense. However, who's the father of that child?



the father of that child is probably Hayato..
Hayato's the only one who didn't receive the "punishment" among the 5 people...
I think that Saki lied to Hayato that they didn't have sex in the hotel when he was drunk..

wolfjade
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Postby wolfjade » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:21 am

xioncloudheaven wrote:the father of that child is probably Hayato..
Hayato's the only one who didn't receive the "punishment" among the 5 people...
I think that Saki lied to Hayato that they didn't have sex in the hotel when he was drunk..


The child can't be Hayato's. We're told that the scene with her being pregnant is a year later. Babies are generally born in the ninth month after conception and Saki was probably in her eighth or ninth month. There's no possible way for her to have been pregnant for over a year. So, the father is still a mystery.



General comment time: I do think that "the wine man" (as many here are referring to him) and the wife did "deserve" the punishment as well; not just the director. First, if the wine man hadn't been injured, the wife would never have gone to her husband all panicked causing him to turn away the ambulance--that was already on it's way. So, ultimately, you could say that the wine man caused the death of the mother (delay in getting her to a hospital for treatment; with heart conditions, the fastest you can get a person treatment, the better their chances) as well as the director's downfall.

Also, I prefer to think that this isn't a prequel to Utsukushi Rinjin. Plus, didn't the producers say that it wasn't a sequel or a prequel? That it's a stand-alone spin-off of sorts that is merely connected through a few similarities (the name "Saki", revenge, the rocking chair, etc.)

gz2009
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Postby gz2009 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:58 am

wolfjade wrote:
xioncloudheaven wrote:the father of that child is probably Hayato..
Hayato's the only one who didn't receive the "punishment" among the 5 people...
I think that Saki lied to Hayato that they didn't have sex in the hotel when he was drunk..


The child can't be Hayato's. We're told that the scene with her being pregnant is a year later. Babies are generally born in the ninth month after conception and Saki was probably in her eighth or ninth month. There's no possible way for her to have been pregnant for over a year. So, the father is still a mystery.



General comment time: I do think that "the wine man" (as many here are referring to him) and the wife did "deserve" the punishment as well; not just the director. First, if the wine man hadn't been injured, the wife would never have gone to her husband all panicked causing him to turn away the ambulance--that was already on it's way. So, ultimately, you could say that the wine man caused the death of the mother (delay in getting her to a hospital for treatment; with heart conditions, the fastest you can get a person treatment, the better their chances) as well as the director's downfall.

Also, I prefer to think that this isn't a prequel to Utsukushi Rinjin. Plus, didn't the producers say that it wasn't a sequel or a prequel? That it's a stand-alone spin-off of sorts that is merely connected through a few similarities (the name "Saki", revenge, the rocking chair, etc.)


Indeed they did. They said that they want to tell a completely different story.

http://www.tokyohive.com/2012/11/nakama ... rama-saki/

manoarain808
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Postby manoarain808 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:21 am

Producers say things to throw people off. It is a prequel...it totally makes sense as a prequel.

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Postby ggggian » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:47 pm

Producers say things to throw people off. It is a prequel...it totally makes sense as a prequel.


Agree, I was confused at the start whether this show was a prequel or not but seeing the ending did took me by surprise. Good on them for keeping us guessing.

I went back to Utsukushi Rinjin right after only to realise that Saki seemed to be more cunning than I had expected the first time I watched Utsukushi Rinjin - She had taken out a few men already on her revenge plot in 'Saki' so her encounter with the mother/husband in Utsukushi Rinjin is just a walk in the park for her.

Was it only me who thought the Wagyu beef and wine symbolised the body and blood of the victims?

As for the father of the child, It was the man in Utsukushi Rinjin whose last name was Meyer. That kept us guessing whether the show was a prequel or not as Saki had two different surnames, only to realise that Amihama was her surname before she got married and changed her surname to Meyer

I really enjoyed both shows and I do hope they can make a third installment - They can squeeze another show right after she left her brother and before she got pregnant

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digitalcoconut
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Postby digitalcoconut » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:22 am

no use to argue which of the 5 men deserved to be punish or not.. this is Saki, a psychopath. if u watched Utsukushi Rinjin u definitely can understand why she 'killed' /ruined their life.. in Utsukushi Rinjin, she simply ruined the family just for the single line the mother said.. thats enough to justify her avenge..

i love Utsukushi Rinjin more.. the story are more focus and intense.. i love the vague ending, Saki dead or not dead.. too bad ive already deleted it. its worth a re-watch.. im sure there's some paradox in time line IF Saki is a prequel..

but Saki are good too.. ill give Utsukushi Rinjin 8.5/10 and Saki 7/10..

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Postby muschan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:16 pm

I just finished watching Saki...the drama was quite slow in the beginning, but later on it has a nice pace.
I wanted to continue watching Utsukushi Rinjin right after that, unfortunately it was not in my HD anymore..ahh, too bad.
I always thought that I enjoyed watching Utsukushi Rinjin. I prefer the sequel more. :)

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Postby goygakgoy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:09 pm

Wow...this started as a good drama....but I would say ended as a really really good...close to great. It's like you have no clue what's going on! It's not predictable at all. That's what I like about jdoramas.

I don't think she can be guilty of anything here. If somebody told you that you're a loser and you kill yourself, is that person really guilty? If somebody said that you wife cheated on your, and you kill her, that person guilty?

You need intention + action to be convicted of murder. Saki just had the intention, but even that was not even documented or well expressed. No action at all.It was a fairly clever drama. The perfect "murder".

The ending was f*ck though.....just so confused about it. I just finished it last night, but i'm planning to research this. Japanese dramas have a reputation for wierd endings. Reminds me of that action film..Casshern? At the end, bro and sis started making out of nowhere.....very wierd

IDentity
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Postby IDentity » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:02 am

It makes more sense that 'Saki' is a prequel to 'Utsukushii Rinjin'. The Amihama Clinic was featured in the last episode of 'Utsukushii Rinjin'. Then this would have made Saki to be around 40 years old in 'Utsukushii Rinjin'.

Both shows are great. But I think I like the ending in 'Saki' more.

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Postby «minah» » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:50 am

I just watched the last episode and I like both series respectively and don't really try to compare the two that much. I guess it could be seen as a prequel, but I just watched it as an alternative universe kinda thing with the same character "Saki."

Anywho, I have thoughts on the 5th victim.

[spoiler]
The beef wasn't consumed (or at least shown) consumed by Saki nor did she drink the wine... I think the 5th victim was the brother, but could also be her, herself. I think the reason why she didn't kill him was because the mother uttered his name as her final words. As she converses with her mom via letters, how could she [i]really[/] kill Hayato afterwards? And write to her "I killed my younger brother out of jealousy." That would just 'kill' her mom's spirit. Maybe she already knew how her feelings were too... her 'switch' was messed with a long time ago. Just seem like the 5th victim can be ambiguous as Hayato didn't cause anything to happen on that day and just how she does her ritual with it, is very different than the others. Just my thoughts anyway.[/spoiler][/spoiler]
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Postby malifact » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:10 pm

I actually watched Ustukushii Rinjin after Saki just recently (as I enjoyed Saki so much). I actually felt sorry for her in the final episode despite the terrible things she had done. I hope they do a sequel or another story with the Saki character. I guess this is unlikely though as I don't think Saki was as successful as Utsukushii Rinjin.

[spoiler]Did they ever confirm that Saki was a prequel? I know she was pregnant in the final scene, but there was no mention of the husband from Ustukushii Rinjin. I also thought they were hinting the brother could be the father of her child, especially with her saying she would see him again. The psychotic Saki in Utsukushii Rinjin also seemed quite different to the cold and controlled femme fatale in this. Also, wouldn't Saki have been in her 40s then, when she was portrayed as a young mother?[/spoiler]

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Postby kujirakira » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:15 am

I'm way late to the convo, but there's multiple comments about her selection of wines matching birth years... that's actually a Japanese thing in general. Or at least a common plot device in other Japanese dramas.
I know I've seen it in others, but only one off the top of my head right now is サプリ (Suppli on D-addicts) where the lead guy from Nobuta wants to impress Ito Misaki. Of course usually it's done in this kind of romantic sense, so maybe that makes it creepier... but I think it's just a common plot device that matches the character's "sophistication" and the meat theme.
Food in general is highly symbolic in most Japanese dramas, and the plots typically revolve around food both in the day-to-day scenes and in the symbolism (the meat slices, wine selection, buying cakes, meat&potato soup, etc.). And I've had more than one Japanese person tell me that good food means a good life. Not necessarily high class food; though that is a pervading theme in this drama.


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