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MKV

Posted: Jul 16th, '09, 22:30
by gothmog
Is there a reason some groups have switched over to using MKV?
Its hard to convert to an avi to burn on a DVD.

Posted: Jul 16th, '09, 23:11
by wmcnair370
Yeah. You get better video quality at a smaller size with X.264. Take Tsubasa for example. Bot\h the 1280x720 x.264 and the 704x394 .avi are the same size, so which would you rather watch? I would rather watch the HD version any day. Personally I will download avi for unsubbed dorama's, but if it is a fansub then I want x.264 because of the smaller file size and better picture quality. By the way, one week of Tsubasa in HD avi is 1.8GB, and in x.264 it is about 735MB. Does that answer you question?

Posted: Jul 16th, '09, 23:52
by rpger81
Why convert to avi? You're better off converting straight to MPEG2 dvd files, might save you some trouble :)

Posted: Jul 16th, '09, 23:59
by Shindou-Kun
Using ConvertXtoDVD 3 you can easily burn .mkv files to dvd.

Re: MKV

Posted: Jul 17th, '09, 18:54
by eye
gothmog wrote:Is there a reason some groups have switched over to using MKV?
Its hard to convert to an avi to burn on a DVD.
File size and download speed are the most obvious reasons. But there are more:
  • Standard DVD resolution is 704x480. AVI does not support anamorphic video. That's why all the "standard resolution" AVIs you see around here are in fact non-standard 704x396, i.e. they are scaled down.
  • MKV supports multiple embedded subtitle tracks. Select subtitles in your preferred language or turn them off if you don't need them.
  • DivX (the company) has chosen MKV for its new DivX Plus media format. Any MKV file containing H.264 video (up to High Profile Level 4.0), AAC audio and (optionally) SRT subtitles will be compatible with devices carrying the DivX Plus logo. In the long run DivX Plus MKV will replace DivX AVI, and that's why some groups have already switched over.

Posted: Aug 20th, '09, 00:14
by kuma601
Working my way down the forum...

Thank-you for that MKV explanation eye. :)

Posted: Aug 20th, '09, 01:08
by moocah_11
still, i prefer .avi files because i can burn it on a dvd as data, and play it our dvd player so i can watch it on a big screen with surround sound

our dvd player cant recognize mkv. and burning it to dvd takes more time and more space

Posted: Aug 30th, '09, 05:14
by robx
wow, folks probably need to update on technology. Technology doesn't ever stay in place for long. Avi yesteryear, mkv yesterday, mp4 today, who knows whats next tomorrow.

Re: MKV

Posted: Aug 30th, '09, 05:37
by lapzod
wmcnair370 wrote:Yeah. You get better video quality at a smaller size with X.264. Take Tsubasa for example. Bot\h the 1280x720 x.264 and the 704x394 .avi are the same size, so which would you rather watch? I would rather watch the HD version any day.
But why not have even better quality of the h264 at the file size of the avi? Mind blown.
eye wrote:
  • Standard DVD resolution is 704x480. AVI does not support anamorphic video. That's why all the "standard resolution" AVIs you see around here are in fact non-standard 704x396, i.e. they are scaled down.
Broseph, broseph, broseph, you are only partial right. Standard DVD resolution for NTSC is 720 (or 704) by 480. PAL is 720 (or 704) by 576.

BUT, if you want to get all fancy and away from standards, DVD can have 352 by 576 and 352 by 288 for PAL and 352 by 480 and 352 by 240 for NTSC.

And if you want to get into all the fancy stuff, Mpeg1 can have different resolutions again.

Posted: Aug 30th, '09, 21:00
by XrayMind
robx wrote:wow, folks probably need to update on technology. Technology doesn't ever stay in place for long. Avi yesteryear, mkv yesterday, mp4 today, who knows whats next tomorrow.
Actually MKV is yesterday, today, and tomorrow. MKV is just media container. The different between MKV and AVI/MP4 is that the spec for the MKV is a free open standard not control by a company nor some committee. AVI was set by Microsoft and MP4 is by the Mpeg committee base on the Quicktime MOV container by Apple.

Because MKV is an open standard, you can easy add new features to it. It doesn't mean all of the players will support those features. But MKV support more video and audio codecs than both AVI or MP4. While all 3 format support some kind subtitle format, only MKV support the most advance subtitle features with .ass subtitles and embed fonts. Finally what I think is the best and less use feature of MKV, chapter Indexing. Not only the can you skipping back and forth to each chapter. You can setup order chapter linking multiple MKV files. This feature is already use in fansub Anime releases. Because most Anime use the same OP sequence for every episodes. You could have the each episode tell the player to play the OP video file and then back to itself when it finish.

Posted: Aug 30th, '09, 21:17
by robx
XrayMind wrote:
robx wrote:wow, folks probably need to update on technology. Technology doesn't ever stay in place for long. Avi yesteryear, mkv yesterday, mp4 today, who knows whats next tomorrow.
Actually MKV is yesterday, today, and tomorrow. MKV is just media container. The different between MKV and AVI/MP4 is that the spec for the MKV is a free open standard not control by a company nor some committee. AVI was set by Microsoft and MP4 is by the Mpeg committee base on the Quicktime MOV container by Apple.

Because MKV is an open standard, you can easy add new features to it. It doesn't mean all of the players will support those features. But MKV support more video and audio codecs than both AVI or MP4. While all 3 format support some kind subtitle format, only MKV support the most advance subtitle features with .ass subtitles and embed fonts. Finally what I think is the best and less use feature of MKV, chapter Indexing. Not only the can you skipping back and forth to each chapter. You can setup order chapter linking multiple MKV files. This feature is already use in fansub Anime releases. Because most Anime use the same OP sequence for every episodes. You could have the each episode tell the player to play the OP video file and then back to itself when it finish.
To make long story short, you misunderstand me. I was only going in the order of what containers came out in order, wasn't saying that avi and mkv are outdated or obsolete already. And certainly wasn't trying to get into all the technical details of who made what, when, and why.

Edit: Also meant towards those dvd players and 5 second setup media centers that those are quickly outdated by the ever fast growing technology.

Posted: Aug 31st, '09, 04:00
by XrayMind
robx wrote:To make long story short, you misunderstand me. I was only going in the order of what containers came out in order, wasn't saying that avi and mkv are outdated or obsolete already. And certainly wasn't trying to get into all the technical details of who made what, when, and why.

Edit: Also meant towards those dvd players and 5 second setup media centers that those are quickly outdated by the ever fast growing technology.
Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. I think that somewhere down the road, there is going to be two containers. MKV will be one of them, since they could easily add features to it without going through alot of bureaucracy. And second, maybe a format call MP5 from MPEG group that use a container from Apple, Microsoft, or maybe even Google.

Manufacturers like containers from MPEG group, since each of it's standards is somewhat set in stone. I still haven't seen a hardware media player support all of MKV's features.

Re: MKV

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 11:48
by eye
lapzod wrote:Broseph, broseph, broseph, you are only partial right. Standard DVD resolution for NTSC is 720 (or 704) by 480. PAL is 720 (or 704) by 576.
I'm aware of PAL since I happen to live in the country where PAL was developed (duh!). But it's irrelevant here because Japan, South Korea and Taiwan don't use PAL. Their content runs at 30/1.001 progressive frames per second. Encoding it as 576p would be wrong, because 576p is supported only at 25 frames per second. 480p is the only valid option here.

There's a lot of confusion about the horizontal resolution of DVD video. Fact is, the pixel aspect ratio of 480p widescreen video is always 40:33 according to ITU-R BT.601. This means that only 704 horizontal pixels are used, even if 720 are encoded in the MPEG stream. Here's the math:

480 / 9 x 16 / 40 x 33 = 704

red: display aspect ratio
green: pixel aspect ratio

The remaining 8 pixels on the left and right are padding areas added by some types of digital video equipment (e.g. Sony D1). Usually they contain nothing but black bars. By definition they are outside the visible 16:9 or 4:3 picture area. If you encode DVD video as full 720x480 or 720x576 without padding, your aspect ratio will be wrong, and the left and right 8 pixels of the picture may never appear on screen because properly designed DVD players will cut them off anyway. Authoring DVD content 720 pixels wide makes no sense at all unless for some reason your source material is already MPEG-2 @ 720x480/576 with the padding included.

Querbeet's SD releases are 704x480 for easy transfer to DVD. All you need to do is re-encode as MPEG-2 which is pretty fast these days. No cropping, scaling or padding required. As you can see, we do put some thought into our format decisions. (Our reasons for using MKV instead of MP4 are outlined here.)
BUT, if you want to get all fancy and away from standards, DVD can have 352 by 576 and 352 by 288 for PAL and 352 by 480 and 352 by 240 for NTSC.
These are not "away from standards" at all. In fact they were derived from two standards: MPEG-1 (SIF, "Source Input Format") and H.261 (CIF, "Common Intermediate Format").
And if you want to get into all the fancy stuff, Mpeg1 can have different resolutions again.
No, it can't. If you want to put MPEG-1 video on DVD or VCD, there's no other resolution than SIF/CIF.

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 12:58
by tunix_2008
I understand the appeal of using MKV because file sizes are smaller therefore easier to upload, download, and store. Plus the MKV format, as I've been made to understand recently in the Querbeet forum, can carry multiple soft subtitle versions (i.e. languages). I'm all for that.

However, I understand, too, the desire to play downloaded videos on dvd players connected to home entertainment systems with wide screen tvs, etc.

Hardware technology is a bit slower in keeping up with these file types. I've recently been in the market for a dvd player and saw one that touted it could play .mp4 files. I brought a burned dvd with an .mp4 video but the player displayed "unsupported format". Obviously the salesperson couldn't make heads or tails about it. I just chalk it up to hardware development can't keep up with software.

I have a question though, where do you suggest I get a good and FREE conversion software so I can convert MKV files (in its entirety) and play it on my dvd player? I've visited websites that offer these so-called freeware converters but they only convert 1/3 of the video or put a distracting watermark on the converted file.

A link would be highly appreciated. :thumleft:

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 13:37
by eye

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 13:59
by popoycanton
eye is teh encoding guru :)



MKV - People really get confused about this. Remember that it is a container, the small size (reference to the above statement) is not due to the container, but due to the codec.

Anyway, HTPC is the way to go. Just hook up your PC to your LCDTV/Plasma/CRT, there you go problem solved.

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 15:29
by tunix_2008
Thanks for the link eye.

I also did consider HTPC but I'm actually not the one who's going to view the videos -- my dad is, and he isn't tech-y at all. He only just really cares about play, forward and stop. :lol So my PC is not going to cut it.

Since a lot of torrents not only here in d-addicts are for mkv and mp4 (especially the 2008-09 US TV season), I think it's just best to understand the file type more. :D

Posted: Sep 3rd, '09, 21:27
by eye
I think we will see more devices like the WD TV in the future.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/WDTV/

It takes less space than a HTPC in the living room, plays all the important formats (AVI, MKV, MP4, H.264, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, Xvid, MP3 etc.), is as easy to use as a DVD player but doesn't require DVDs. Just plug in a flash memory stick with your movies. No fan or disc drive noise at all (unless you plug in a USB HDD). Flash memory sticks are cheap, small, and can be refilled thousands of times.

Burning DVDs is sooo 1990s. :P

Posted: Sep 4th, '09, 12:38
by lapzod
You expanded on a lot of what I said, and fixed up a few things I missed pronounced.

You don't happen to work in a production house by chance?

Posted: Sep 6th, '09, 11:39
by tunix_2008
I agree about "burning DVD is sooo 1990s" but I'm just one of those people who hang on to something tangible like a disc or even a piece of paper. :lol Like an old timer with his vinyl records -- saying, "I have that somewhere around here" and there's like a mountain of clutter around him. I still think of flash drives (even HDD) as temporary storage that when I erase a file I'm going to regret it one day, I know typical pack rat mentality :lol

I understand about mkv being a container so it means there's a way to "unpack" it. Can't that be made any simpler? I mean you know, like opening a wrapper and taking only what's useful to me inside.

Posted: Mar 6th, '10, 09:47
by H a n a
I tried Converting code blue season 2 mkv files by divx converter "the new one "
it Worked well ,it converted it to Divx format ,,I Don't know if its a trial version or no
but i converted it again by Win AVI Converter,,

Posted: Mar 24th, '10, 18:02
by kuma601
eye wrote:I think we will see more devices like the WD TV in the future.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/WDTV/
A bit late...thanks for posting that, this looks like a nice device to use.

Posted: Mar 27th, '10, 17:03
by Riea
For people who like... (was going to say RM files, but don't think anyone really likes them) China/hk/taiwan related stuff...
Asus O!Play does pretty much everything WD TV does and supports RMVB / RM.
Patriot's Box Office does as well.

Some come with wireless so you can stream stuff directly from your network. These things are pretty cheap considering they're only around $100 or so.

Posted: Mar 28th, '10, 07:18
by AkumaX
I've heard good things about the O! Play and Patriot's Box Office

Posted: Apr 1st, '10, 19:19
by kuma601
I ordered the Patriot Box Office and hooked it in last night. Pretty nice unit and it played what I had on hand without issue. I have a few gripes but overall, it is a winner. :D

Update: I thought it was compatible with ASS sub files...it is SSA. Fortunately, the majority are SRT but for the few ASS shows at HD spec, oh well. :( My overall opinion hasn't changed, a nice media player still. This leaves room for improvement for future versions.

Posted: Apr 19th, '11, 05:19
by kuma601
DL'd My.Girlfriend Is A Gumiho in 720P MKV-Matroska along with some of the recent Japanology...1024x576 and 704x480.

Updated the firmware hoping but no joy. It will play certain MKV but not others. II notice more issues with different sized formats like the Japanology. :( I'll have to find a way to watch these. Possibly another media player doesn't choke like the Patriot does.