When will 704x396 be an obsolete res standard?

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Ladymercury
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When will 704x396 be an obsolete res standard?

Post by Ladymercury » Jun 27th, '09, 16:14

I was recently on 2ch browsing the share threads on the download board and noticed a heated discussion on the domestic drama share thread about file types and resolutions.

The issues brought up in this heated debate/wank war:

- 704 is the new 320, thus should be scrapped
- 1080i .ts raw uploads are desired
- .avi should be replaced with .mp4 and .ts
- .ts can not be edited to cut out commercials thus defeats the purpose of the file format
- beggars can't be choosers

Now, recently, one of the encoders actually conceded, it seems, to the demands from the anons in the thread and the latest drama uploads listed where 1280 and higher, and also uploaded in .mp4 format.

Now what are your thoughts on this techy guys? To me, personally, I'd totally enjoy some .ts raws. As a fansubber, .ts raws would be an valuable resource in terms for translation as the CC can be ripped from the stream (granted the show is aired with subs) ... But with the insane file size ( 3 - 6 gigs an episode) its still not a favorable option.

On the other hand, many on the Western front are still unable to watch HD raws, so if the encoders over in Japan kill 704 then that'll cripple the RAW viewers over here unless uploaders or volunteers are willing to re-encode the raws to smaller resolutions (though I doubt anyone would want to bother doing that)

I thought the 2channers brought up an interesting debate that could affect us since we all grab the raws off of share anyway. So I'm interested in reading your thoughts :)

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Post by Airhead » Jun 27th, '09, 16:50

I'm happy with the 704x396 japanese Rips (600mb+ per hour) and the 450p h264 korean rips (Mickeybaby, SHiNHWA and HAN)
because i can watch them on every Display (from tube-tv to full HD Screen (1920x1200) without much Quality loss (they look better than the original sized Ental Rips :D ) and a resonable filesize
i prefer Raws with softies ... the container isn't an issue (avi's preferred, rest is only for show)

the 1080i are Overkill and doesn't look better than the 720p (i watched few korean musicvids in many resolutions - 1,5gb/hour 720p h264 vids looks the best, followed by 700mb/hour 450p h264)

The Main Issue isn't the resolution or the specs of the vid ... It's the filesize
because even if i have a flatrate ... i produce to much traffic and get in danger to get a kick in the a** from my provider :mrgreen:
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Post by Mai-Soon » Jun 27th, '09, 16:55

I'm not professional and i'm quite ignorant when it come to encoding
so as amateurs and downloaders can you plz explain to us the differences between the different formats and encodes , and what is the best choice and quality for us as downloaders?..


thanks in advance :-)

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 27th, '09, 17:24

Airhead wrote:I'm happy with the 704x396 japanese Rips (600mb+ per hour) and the 450p h264 korean rips (Mickeybaby, SHiNHWA and HAN)
because i can watch them on every Display (from tube-tv to full HD Screen (1920x1200) without much Quality loss (they look better than the original sized Ental Rips :D ) and a resonable filesize
i prefer Raws with softies ... the container isn't an issue (avi's preferred, rest is only for show)

the 1080i are Overkill and doesn't look better than the 720p (i watched few korean musicvids in many resolutions - 1,5gb/hour 720p h264 vids looks the best, followed by 700mb/hour 450p h264)

The Main Issue isn't the resolution or the specs of the vid ... It's the filesize
because even if i have a flatrate ... i produce to much traffic and get in danger to get a kick in the a** from my provider :mrgreen:
I personally see a difference on my screen from 704 to 1280, but I do not see the difference in 1080i unless its a .ts file type. But I realized, 1080i and anything large is dependent on two factors:

Monitor size and distance from Monitor....

Image

Im downloading an MP4 1080i of Mr. Brain to see the differences but it looks like they're really in favor of scrapping 704.
I'm not professional and i'm quite ignorant when it come to encoding
so as amateurs and downloaders can you plz explain to us the differences between the different formats and encodes , and what is the best choice and quality for us as downloaders?..
Im not entirely knowledgeable on file formats in video, but the larger the res, obviously the larger the file size. But you have containers, such as .avi and .mp4 and .ts

.avi obviously is the standard, then you have .mp4 which I believe is compared to an ISO? I'm not too familiar with .mp4 then there's .ts which is basically the uncompressed, raw, digital broadcast stream that contains the CC stream, audio stream, and video stream and is extremely large.... Like an uncompressed .avi file.

I haven't worked with mp4, but I do know that there's a significant difference between .avi and .ts.

Edit: Wow, while trying to watch Mr. Brain 1080i in .mp4 x264 -- I have major lag. Though I watch .ts and I don't suffer lag. This sucks.

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Post by Airhead » Jun 27th, '09, 18:43

yes, you see differences, but they are not worth the increased filesize
avi,mp4,ts,mkv,ogg are the containers for xvid,divx,h264 videos
containers have nothing to do with the quality of the vids ... only with the features (dualaudio, jumpmarks, multilanguage-subs, ....)
Ladymercury wrote:...
Edit: Wow, while trying to watch Mr. Brain 1080i in .mp4 x264 -- I have major lag. Though I watch .ts and I don't suffer lag. This sucks.
maybe through the use of 2 different decoders ... directshow switch them with the filename
rename .mp4 to .ts and try to play it ... if the lag is gone u found the source :)
i got 40% less prozessorload with a player who uses the hardwareroutines from the ati graphic-chipset
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 27th, '09, 19:16

Changing the extension isn't going to fix the problem. Its the codec used, my computer probably has problems playing x264. Its not the res, cause I can watch 1080i no problem. Its the codec probably.

In MPC/WMP the audio lags behind the video. In VLC it plays, but it has instances where it "buffers"

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Post by Airhead » Jun 27th, '09, 19:25

Ladymercury wrote:Changing the extension isn't going to fix the problem. Its the codec used, my computer probably has problems playing x264. Its not the res, cause I can watch 1080i no problem. Its the codec probably.

In MPC/WMP the audio lags behind the video. In VLC it plays, but it has instances where it "buffers"
with MPC/WMP it's the splitter (Haali :P ), have the same troubles with mp4
VLC uses it's own routines to play the vid
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 27th, '09, 20:11

Hmmm but with low res mp4 files I don't have that issue. Ah well, w/e I was just testing out something.

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Post by atskv9 » Jun 27th, '09, 21:45

Ah, quite an interesting thread :-) I'd like to say that 704x396 resolution will become obsolete when the encoders on 2ch/Share stop releasing it, but the population of d-addicts lags behind a bit technology-wise (connection speed and possibly computer hardware). I think as long as there is a demand for the lower resolution on d-addicts, it will continue to be the standard. There are actually uploaders who do re-encode to smaller resolutions (XrayMind, Moodilic). Because of this, our Japanese sources and their decisions on what format/resolution to release in might not even have that much effect on the DA population. However keeping in mind that within the last 6 months, the many fansub groups have started HD releases shows a trend towards a higher resolution. Before 704x396 became the standard on DA, I wonder how long it took to transition to this resolution. That could give some insight as to when 720p might be the standard but then again, technology often seems exponential so who knows :blink

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Re: When will 704x396 be an obsolete res standard?

Post by eye » Jun 27th, '09, 22:55

Ladymercury wrote:- 704 is the new 320, thus should be scrapped
704x396 has never been a standard but a workaround due to limitations of the AVI container. 704x480 (aka 480p) is DVD quality and will be around for a long time because many people think it's just fine.
- 1080i .ts raw uploads are desired
1080i sucks because it is interlaced. 1080p is better but out of reach unless raw providers start embracing H.264.
- .avi should be replaced with .mp4 and .ts
AVI will be replaced by MKV because many upcoming consumer electronics devices will support DivX Plus which is based on MKV, H.264 and AAC.
- .ts can not be edited to cut out commercials thus defeats the purpose of the file format
TS (transport stream) is basically containerless MPEG. Using appropriate tools it can be edited just like any other video format.
I thought the 2channers brought up an interesting debate that could affect us since we all grab the raws off of share anyway. So I'm interested in reading your thoughts :)
I guess that we (Querbeet) will continue using the 720p raws and make both 720p and 480p hardsubs from them.
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Post by AkumaX » Jun 27th, '09, 23:02

any 1080i .ts raw providers in this thread? what video codec you guys using?

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Post by rpger81 » Jun 27th, '09, 23:38

1080i is awesome... especially when used with hardware deinterlacing. You cannot achieve the same effect with 1080p, unless an encoder runs a bobbing script during encoding (which I've never seen anyone do).

I personally do not like 704x396. It should have died out long ago, along with the avi container. There are always excuses why people don't want the change, "I can't play on my DVD player" blah blah blah, so I do not expect any changes. Not for a bit anyways.

And to the person above, it is the res. mpeg 1080 is not like h264 1080. h264 is just that demanding... the higher you go the more power you need. As Airhead also said, hardware decoding can help very much.

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Post by groink » Jun 28th, '09, 00:24

AkumaX wrote:any 1080i .ts raw providers in this thread? what video codec you guys using?
I downloaded the 59th NHK Kouhaku in TS format from jpopsuki, so that I could have something to rip down to DVD format. But my PC can play the TS as-is, using VLC, and it plays smoothly. I don't have that much: P4 HT, 3GB RAM, and a 256MB ATI Radeon X600 AGP card, running XP Pro.

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 28th, '09, 00:26

Well, I've been following the 2ch thread pretty closely and its resorted to bitter attacks, basically boiling down to the " The wankers need to stfu about the resolutions (解像度厨うざすぎ)"

But I do have a feeling that 396p will be phased out. I mean, I don't even watch it anymore, I simply delete the file after I'm done seeding here. I prefer to go higher just because I do see the difference once I go full screen - But compared to users in Japan, we are behind like atskv9 said.
704x396 has never been a standard but a workaround due to limitations of the AVI container. 704x480 (aka 480p) is DVD quality and will be around for a long time because many people think it's just fine.


Of course, but the people on 2ch were probably viewing at not from a television stand point, but from a " I'm watching this on my computer so I don't care I want it bigger ". Which is understandable, because I look at it from that aspect too. The only reason I would want 396p is if I was watching this on my TV.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject:
1080i is awesome... especially when used with hardware deinterlacing. You cannot achieve the same effect with 1080p, unless an encoder runs a bobbing script during encoding (which I've never seen anyone do).
This is true. It is interlaced, but moment I deinterlace it with my media players, its really an enjoyable experience. I don't notice the problem then again I haven't watched anything in 1080p. I don't even think raw HD television is in 1080p?
I personally do not like 704x396. It should have died out long ago, along with the avi container. There are always excuses why people don't want the change, "I can't play on my DVD player" blah blah blah, so I do not expect any changes. Not for a bit anyways.
That was basically the general idea from the opposing group of people. Basically the ship isn't broke, don't fix it and that for .ts files, the file size is just insane anyway and a lot do not want to be bothered with 5 gig episodes. I don't see a problem with it then again I custom built my machine and shoved a crap load of storage in it.

As for me and the x264 1080i mp4 raws, that's just not a possibility for me right now. x264 is just ridiculous for me to even attempt to watch so I'll either try to find my 1080i via .ts or an encoded mpeg-2 like Quiz Show was released as.

Though I would love to have .ts just for the CC scripts. Man that would be heaven.

Of course, I am no expert on containers and codecs. But this is just what I've gained from my own personal experience, I'm not really going to debate which one is better or not cause each system is different.
groink wrote:
AkumaX wrote:any 1080i .ts raw providers in this thread? what video codec you guys using?
I downloaded the 59th NHK Kouhaku in TS format from jpopsuki, so that I could have something to rip down to DVD format. But my PC can play the TS as-is, using VLC, and it plays smoothly. I don't have that much: P4 HT, 3GB RAM, and a 256MB ATI Radeon X600 AGP card, running XP Pro.

--- groink
Yeah, I wouldn't say I have the fastest machine out there and I can play .ts no problems on my machine using VLC player. MPC I really have no issues either.

I watched the entire Johnny's Countdown 08 - 09 from jpopsuki.

09:35] * KickHopper - Windows XP has been running 2days 7hrs 58mins 26secs Memory Usage: 2051/3327MB (61.65%) Processor: 2-AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+, 2711MHz, 640KB HDD

I have 6 gigs of ram though, but apparently im on 32bit windows so all my resources are cut in half

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Post by AkumaX » Jun 28th, '09, 00:55

@Groink, nice demographic showing how your hardware is still able to process these high resolution files. I think a lot of people complaining about not being able to play it should really try out VLC.

Just doing a torrent search on 1080i shows that most of the .ts files are encoded into h.264 using x264. The only exception is Akai Ito, which used XviD.

Does everyone here understand why some shows are encoded @ 1440x1080, and are actually displayed @ 1920x1080? Somewhat similar to how 720x480 is really either 640x480 or 848x480? Good... :)

@Ladymercury, I'm truly puzzled as to why you can't play 1080i .mp4's, but can play 1080i .ts (they're both encoded into h.264 - except for Akai Ito). Playing the .mp4 in VLC also studders/lags?

It'll be a while until we start seeing 1080p TV rips more commonly...

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Post by rpger81 » Jun 28th, '09, 01:05

@AkumaX: 1440x1080 is anamorphic. Meaning it stores its pixels (SAR) in squares. When you open it in a player, DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) takes over and turns those square pixels into rectangular pixels, giving it widescreen... 1920x1080.

The same is done with DVD 720x480 > 853x480 DAR.

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Post by AkumaX » Jun 28th, '09, 01:16

awww... so there is intelligent life on these forums *sniff* :mrgreen:

--------

care to explain why/why not we use/not use 704x396 instead of 704x400?

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 28th, '09, 01:31

AkumaX wrote:@Ladymercury, I'm truly puzzled as to why you can't play 1080i .mp4's, but can play 1080i .ts (they're both encoded into h.264 - except for Akai Ito). Playing the .mp4 in VLC also studders/lags?

It'll be a while until we start seeing 1080p TV rips more commonly...
I have absolutely no clue to be quite honest. Its baffling me as well, because I can view these normally:

(20090620)ザ・クイズショウ 第10話(終) 松浦亜弥(1440x1080i)
The Quiz Show 2

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 256Kbps [AC-3]
Video: MPEG2 Video 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps 20000Kbps [Video]

*Lag in MPC, no lag in VLC

20081231-Johnny's countdown 2008-2009 5.ts
Video: MPG2 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo [Audio]

*Plays perfectly in MPC and VLC

But this,
[ドラマ] MR.BRAIN 第05話 (1440x1080i x264).mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1440x1080 (16:9) [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Unable to play in MPC or VLC and major lag.


But, on the flip side:
20090416 Meringue no Kimochi.mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1024x576 [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Absolutely no lag what so ever and on top of that it was extremely easy for me to sub.[/quote]

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Post by AkumaX » Jun 28th, '09, 01:43

Ladymercury wrote: I have absolutely no clue to be quite honest. Its baffling me as well, because I can view these normally:

(20090620)ザ・クイズショウ 第10話(終) 松浦亜弥(1440x1080i)
The Quiz Show 2

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 256Kbps [AC-3]
Video: MPEG2 Video 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps 20000Kbps [Video]

*Lag in MPC, no lag in VLC
this is a .ts right? well, container doesn't really matter..
maybe its the 6ch audio
the video uses MPEG2 codec, that's basically DVD and all computers should process that fine
20081231-Johnny's countdown 2008-2009 5.ts
Video: MPG2 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo [Audio]

*Plays perfectly in MPC and VLC
the only difference i see is the audio. still uses MPEG2 (high bitrate)
But this,
[ドラマ] MR.BRAIN 第05話 (1440x1080i x264).mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1440x1080 (16:9) [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Unable to play in MPC or VLC and major lag.
yeah, h264 @ 1080i probably very demanding. i could demux->remux that .mp4 into .ts and you'd probably still get the same results

But, on the flip side:
20090416 Meringue no Kimochi.mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1024x576 [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Absolutely no lag what so ever and on top of that it was extremely easy for me to sub.
resolution (576p) too small to differentiate

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Post by groink » Jun 28th, '09, 01:59

Reading all of this, it does appear that MPEG-2 is much easier on the CPU than h264 and such. I'll need to find something like MR.BRAIN to see if the h264 video has an effect on my set-up.

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Post by rpger81 » Jun 28th, '09, 02:05

AkumaX wrote: care to explain why/why not we use/not use 704x396 instead of 704x400?
Well 704x396 is perfect 16:9, whereas 704x400 is slightly off. However, 704x400 is at least mod16 so it's still more preferable imo. The human eye will not notice the slight offset of 16:9 res, no matter what medium you play it on.

I think Japanese cappers must have some sort of standards they have to release by, kind of like the "scene" standards we have over here. Stupid rules that inhibit what an encoder can do :lol

...and yea, as I mentioned earlier 1080 h264 is gonna be more demanding than mpeg.

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 28th, '09, 02:11

AkumaX wrote:
Ladymercury wrote: I have absolutely no clue to be quite honest. Its baffling me as well, because I can view these normally:

(20090620)ザ・クイズショウ 第10話(終) 松浦亜弥(1440x1080i)
The Quiz Show 2

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 256Kbps [AC-3]
Video: MPEG2 Video 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps 20000Kbps [Video]

*Lag in MPC, no lag in VLC
this is a .ts right? well, container doesn't really matter..
maybe its the 6ch audio
the video uses MPEG2 codec, that's basically DVD and all computers should process that fine

Actually its a standard mpg file, not .ts

Thanks for clearing everything up for me. I pretty much figured the h264 @ 1080i was killing my CPU. :) I wonder that if I switch up to 64bit XP will that no longer be an issue.
rpger81 wrote:
I think Japanese cappers must have some sort of standards they have to release by, kind of like the "scene" standards we have over here. Stupid rules that inhibit what an encoder can do :lol
I got that sense too, though there's some loan encoders out there that do what they want. The ones that release on Share and get their files pimped on 2ch pretty much follow by the standard of:

396p = .avi
720p = .avi/mp4
1080i = mp4/mpg

I have NEVER seen a .ts shared yet, and if .ts is shared the encoder doesn't do the complete season. Now on the flip side, in the anime 2ch share threads, .ts is like always uploaded -- you can always find someone upping a .ts for an anime. I wonder why drama cappers wont use .ts

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Post by XrayMind » Jun 28th, '09, 22:01

Ladymercury wrote:I have NEVER seen a .ts shared yet, and if .ts is shared the encoder doesn't do the complete season. Now on the flip side, in the anime 2ch share threads, .ts is like always uploaded -- you can always find someone upping a .ts for an anime. I wonder why drama cappers wont use .ts
Hmm, I am bit late getting into the discussion. It's some what technical why some anime are release in .ts and why you don't see drama in .ts. Anime shows are broadcast at 24(23.976) frames per seconds(fps), while live action(dramas and commercials) are broadcast at 30(29.97) fps. Anime save money by not drawing that extra 5 frames every second. So when the TV station broadcast an Anime show, it will contain both 24fps(Anime) and 30fps(commercials) in the transport stream(ts).

Since it is some what easy to extract out the 24fps(Anime) part of the transport stream. You notice when some encoders release Xvid or x264 video files, the frame rate is 120fps. Well it's because they didn't remove 30fps part when they re-encoded the video, 120 can be divided by 24 or 30. I think some time the sponsors announcement part is 30fps or maybe the OP and ED are drawn 30fps.

When it comes to drama, all of the video is 30fps, both the program and commercials. The problem comes up when the key frame is not the first frame of the commercial or first frame of the program when the program comes back commercial. Anime don't have this problem since new key frame is generated when it switch back and forth between 24fps and 30fps. So the encoded will have to use a program that will generate a key for the first part program when it come back from commercial, if they are planning to release .ts instead of re-encoding the whole program to Xvid/Divx or x264 and not deal with the key frame issue.

Of course, Anime programs are 24 to 25 minutes long and drama programs are 45 to 50 minutes long, not counting any SP that could run up to 2 hours. The regular drama .ts file size double the size of the Anime .ts file.

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Post by eye » Jun 28th, '09, 23:42

Ladymercury wrote:Of course, but the people on 2ch were probably viewing at not from a television stand point, but from a " I'm watching this on my computer so I don't care I want it bigger ". Which is understandable, because I look at it from that aspect too. The only reason I would want 396p is if I was watching this on my TV.
Most of our downloaders prefer the SD releases because they are 50% smaller. It has nothing to do with watching the files on TV since we do not release AVIs.
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Post by rpger81 » Jun 29th, '09, 00:48

eye wrote: Most of our downloaders prefer the SD releases because they are 50% smaller. It has nothing to do with watching the files on TV since we do not release AVIs.
This is good to hear. People are not easy to change (even when the change is for the better), so it is our job as encoders to make them change.

I know that sounds harsh, but we are the ones making it available, it is our decision how to make it available. Look at the anime fansub community, h264+mkv is pretty much the majority favorite now.

Of course there are variables, such as other groups/individuals who might offer the same files in a different format... we would all need to be on the same page for something this drastic to have any effect. Pretty much impossible :P

DivX/XviD+AVI isn't going anywhere for a long time unfortunately.

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Post by eye » Jun 29th, '09, 07:31

rpger81 wrote:People are not easy to change (even when the change is for the better), so it is our job as encoders to make them change.
When we switched from 396p AVI to 480p MKV there was very little resistance because the benefits (smaller files, full DVD resolution) were obvious. The TV playback option is gone only temporarily; it will return when DivX Plus certified devices hit the market later this year. We keep our encodes in line with the DivX Plus specification to ensure compatibility.
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 29th, '09, 15:23

eye wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:Of course, but the people on 2ch were probably viewing at not from a television stand point, but from a " I'm watching this on my computer so I don't care I want it bigger ". Which is understandable, because I look at it from that aspect too. The only reason I would want 396p is if I was watching this on my TV.
Most of our downloaders prefer the SD releases because they are 50% smaller. It has nothing to do with watching the files on TV since we do not release AVIs.
If you may excuse me, who is we? All I see is .avis here.... and on share that's all I see... I am just bringing up the topics presented at 2ch.

Anyway, the discussion over at 2ch is still going on, now:

Basically, there are people who want .ts and then we still have the " if the ship aint broke don't fix it ". There was a long discussion about frame rate, but trying to read a tech discussion in Japanese just burns my brain. Then someone asked why won't they release .ts and then,

728 :[名無し]さん(bin+cue).rar:2009/06/29(月) 21:14:18 ID:VV8ynlY50
TSは逮捕されるリスクが高くなるからやめた方がいいよ>職人
There's a higher risk in uploading TS, so its better if they didn't.

730 :[名無し]さん(bin+cue).rar:2009/06/29(月) 23:22:58 ID:67cSjaNA0
>>728
なんで?
Why?


731 :[名無し]さん(bin+cue).rar:2009/06/29(月) 23:30:48 ID:bKxBs+6g0
AKIってTS流してたから捕まったんだっけ?
Didn't AKI get arrested for distributing TS?


AKI is one of the distro's, I'm assuming, I've seen that name around. S/he had upped some TS looking back on the shareDBs.

My question is, how's the risk higher than uploading in another file format? Either way, its all illegal. Once they find the source they're gonna slam them with the charges. So far no one on 2ch has presented a solid argument other than:

File size is enormously too large for .ts to be distributed.
When it comes to drama, all of the video is 30fps, both the program and commercials. The problem comes up when the key frame is not the first frame of the commercial or first frame of the program when the program comes back commercial. Anime don't have this problem since new key frame is generated when it switch back and forth between 24fps and 30fps. So the encoded will have to use a program that will generate a key for the first part program when it come back from commercial, if they are planning to release .ts instead of re-encoding the whole program to Xvid/Divx or x264 and not deal with the key frame issue.
Thanks for that explanation. I got lost here and there but I think I general idea of the technical side to .ts


But even if the file size is too large for distro, 1080i files are sometimes no different that the .ts files. Like, my mpeg Quiz Show 1080i eps are 4 - 5 gigs a piece and not .ts -- Looking on the ShareDB for some drama .ts eps, that was around the ballpark size too.

.... Hmmm

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Post by toyotaku » Jun 29th, '09, 15:50

Ladymercury wrote:My question is, how's the risk higher than uploading in another file format? Either way, its all illegal. Once they find the source they're gonna slam them with the charges.
Is it possible it's because the quality is too close to legit DVD and more likely to impact potential sales of drama box sets? I know that's weak, but it's something that's kind of bothered me as film trackers have increasingly gone to DVD9 rips. It's one thing to get to watch something, another to have the rip (DVD or television) of such quality that buying a legitimate release isn't worth the money. Perhaps the feeling is that as long as the quality remains lower on the scale, the broadcasters won't care quite as much?

EDIT... oi, but then they should be concerned about the 1080i releases if that were true. I watch on my computer & can't play them, but the quality is excellent, yes? Maybe that isn't the reason then...

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 29th, '09, 18:39

toyotaku wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:My question is, how's the risk higher than uploading in another file format? Either way, its all illegal. Once they find the source they're gonna slam them with the charges.
Is it possible it's because the quality is too close to legit DVD and more likely to impact potential sales of drama box sets? I know that's weak, but it's something that's kind of bothered me as film trackers have increasingly gone to DVD9 rips. It's one thing to get to watch something, another to have the rip (DVD or television) of such quality that buying a legitimate release isn't worth the money. Perhaps the feeling is that as long as the quality remains lower on the scale, the broadcasters won't care quite as much?

EDIT... oi, but then they should be concerned about the 1080i releases if that were true. I watch on my computer & can't play them, but the quality is excellent, yes? Maybe that isn't the reason then...
Well, I notice on Share that I find a lot of bootleg DVD ISO releases of dramas. Like usually every four eps get turned into a DVD ISO so I really don't think that's the problem. Mainly because no matter the quality, the video is still being distributed for free at a high quality and impacts DVD sales.

Once you watch it on your TV, unless you have LCD, you really do not see a quality difference at all. I have an old school TV, and if it was .avi or .mpg or .ts I do not see a quality drop at all.

I haven't watched this on my big screen or flat screen in the house but I'ms ure I might see mroe " quality decreases " but not on my tv....

Ah, well, its interesting to read the reasons on 2ch XD

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Post by XrayMind » Jun 29th, '09, 22:08

Ladymercury wrote:
Thanks for that explanation. I got lost here and there but I think I general idea of the technical side to .ts


But even if the file size is too large for distro, 1080i files are sometimes no different that the .ts files. Like, my mpeg Quiz Show 1080i eps are 4 - 5 gigs a piece and not .ts -- Looking on the ShareDB for some drama .ts eps, that was around the ballpark size too.
.ts is actually mean mpeg2 transport stream, so the .ts files you see are mpeg2 video with ac3 audio. If the broadcast broadcast around 15 to 20 mbps, the file size ts should be around 5-6gb for a 45 minutes program. When some cappers re-encode to mpeg4 h.264, they drop the bitrate about half and still retain the same quality as the broadcast mpeg2.

Most Anime .ts files are around 2.5gb, since their total running time is about half of drama.
Last edited by XrayMind on Jun 30th, '09, 08:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by eye » Jun 29th, '09, 22:39

Ladymercury wrote:If you may excuse me, who is we? All I see is .avis here....
You're not looking hard enough.
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 29th, '09, 23:54

eye wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:If you may excuse me, who is we? All I see is .avis here....
You're not looking hard enough.
Right.

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Post by eye » Jun 30th, '09, 05:22

The point is, as long as our SD hardsubs get downloaded in larger numbers than the HD ones, we will continue releasing SD hardsubs. As long as people seem to prefer DramaCrazy streams over multi-gigabyte monster torrents, we will make our encodes smaller, not larger. It's really that simple. What the raw providers and the other fansubbers do is their own business. You asked for people's thoughts about phasing out SD formats. If you don't want to hear the answers, don't ask questions.
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Post by Ladymercury » Jul 1st, '09, 07:05

.... Why so hostile? I wasn't playing off like I wasn't listening to people's answers in the first place. Take a chill pill. :roll

The point of this topic was not about what we were doing, it was about what they're doing in Japan and if our source is from their encoders it will, in some remote way, affect us thus I wanted to hear people's opinions and insight. This had nothing to do with how fansubbers encode and how they release, it was about raws and the Japanese encoders and the impact it may have on us.

This thread was not about " Hey fansubbers lets phase out SD and go straight to .ts and 1080i fansubs " -- It was about " Hey, there's a debate on 2ch about the raw encoders and people wanting them to switch up and drop 704 "

And you talk about we like I know what group you're apart of. I don't know what group you're in or who you're with or what you do so "we" doesn't make sense if I don't know who "we" is.

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Netbooks

Post by WasabiVengeance » Jul 1st, '09, 07:36

The really hot thing right now in laptop hardware is netbooks, which are typically < 11" screens at 1024x600 (no point in 1280x720 or 1440xwhatever), 1 gig of ram, and a 1.6gHz atom processor which I *think* will have some trouble decoding 1280x720 rips, not that it could display all the pixels if it could decode it smoothly and apply subs on top. Hell, a lot of them come with 16 gig flash drives instead of actual hard drives (with the spinny things!). 16 gigs isn't a whole lot of high-res drama, especially when you subtract out 3 gigs for windows xp/various programs and some more for music and such. Given how that market is exploding, I think we'll need medium res rips around for some time.

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Post by eye » Jul 1st, '09, 09:38

Ladymercury wrote:And you talk about we like I know what group you're apart of. I don't know what group you're in or who you're with or what you do so "we" doesn't make sense if I don't know who "we" is.
From my first post:
eye wrote:I guess that we (Querbeet) will continue using the 720p raws and make both 720p and 480p hardsubs from them.
If the raw providers think they can upload several gigabytes of 1080i MPEG-2 video per week, they should go ahead and do so. We'll take whatever they give us, no problem.
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Re: Netbooks

Post by Joe1991 » Jul 1st, '09, 12:37

WasabiVengeance wrote:The really hot thing right now in laptop hardware is netbooks, which are typically < 11" screens at 1024x600 (no point in 1280x720 or 1440xwhatever), 1 gig of ram, and a 1.6gHz atom processor which I *think* will have some trouble decoding 1280x720 rips, not that it could display all the pixels if it could decode it smoothly and apply subs on top. Hell, a lot of them come with 16 gig flash drives instead of actual hard drives (with the spinny things!). 16 gigs isn't a whole lot of high-res drama, especially when you subtract out 3 gigs for windows xp/various programs and some more for music and such. Given how that market is exploding, I think we'll need medium res rips around for some time.
Well Nvidia's Ion Platform for netbooks is meant to be able to decode 1080p video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVIDIA_ION

The screen resolution would need to be bumped up, and SSD drives need time to mature but soon enough i reckon they'll be little powerhouses. That is, if the netbook fad doesn't die out.

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 14:41

rpger81 wrote:
AkumaX wrote: care to explain why/why not we use/not use 704x396 instead of 704x400?
Well 704x396 is perfect 16:9, whereas 704x400 is slightly off. However, 704x400 is at least mod16 so it's still more preferable imo. The human eye will not notice the slight offset of 16:9 res, no matter what medium you play it on.
Yup, you've got that right.
I think Japanese cappers must have some sort of standards they have to release by, kind of like the "scene" standards we have over here. Stupid rules that inhibit what an encoder can do :lol
I wouldn't really call it stupid. They're trying to keep the aspect ratio maintained because they don't want images to be "distorted" or "stretched". Granted, the difference is small and hardly noticed by most folks. This difference can be noticed for some users if bigger screens are used. :salut:

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 15:11

Ladymercury wrote:
AkumaX wrote:@Ladymercury, I'm truly puzzled as to why you can't play 1080i .mp4's, but can play 1080i .ts (they're both encoded into h.264 - except for Akai Ito). Playing the .mp4 in VLC also studders/lags?

It'll be a while until we start seeing 1080p TV rips more commonly...
I have absolutely no clue to be quite honest. Its baffling me as well, because I can view these normally:

(20090620)ザ・クイズショウ 第10話(終) 松浦亜弥(1440x1080i)
The Quiz Show 2

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 256Kbps [AC-3]
Video: MPEG2 Video 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps 20000Kbps [Video]

*Lag in MPC, no lag in VLC

20081231-Johnny's countdown 2008-2009 5.ts
Video: MPG2 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo [Audio]

*Plays perfectly in MPC and VLC

But this,
[ドラマ] MR.BRAIN 第05話 (1440x1080i x264).mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1440x1080 (16:9) [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Unable to play in MPC or VLC and major lag.


But, on the flip side:
20090416 Meringue no Kimochi.mp4
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1024x576 [Video]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]

Absolutely no lag what so ever and on top of that it was extremely easy for me to sub.
Like the other members pointed out, your problem could likely be the insufficient system power. x264/H264 decoding takes a lot more CPU power, but I personally find them desirable. A lot of H264 codecs have given great pictures though this still depends on how good the original video source it was encoded from. I read your system spec. CPU-wise it *shouldn't* be a problem but there are exceptions if:
a). You are running a LAPTOP.
b). Your files in the hard drive(s) are severely fragmented.
c). Running TOO many programs in the background eating up system resource.
d). There maybe a problem with your playback software either the compatibility or codecs issues.

Is yours a laptop or desktop PC?



Try this playback software -- http://www.elecard.com/ftp/pub/mpeg/pla ... Player.zip it's an Elecard MPEG Player and I found it to be the best, giving smoothest playback. I never liked VLC player. MPC is "Okay", but can't compete with the Elecard MPEG player when it comes to playback performance. If that doesn't solve the problem then try defragging your hard drive. Maybe the files are severely fragmented.

I will try downloading MR.BRAIN 1080i x264 mp4 and run it on my machine and will let you know my findings. :alcoholic:


.

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 17:57

I'm downloading MR.BRAIN 1080i x264 mp4 EP6 rite now... it'll take about 7 hrs to complete according to my utorrent manager.

My machine has never had any problems running h264 codecs in 1080 coz mine is ridiculously fast even though it's nearly 4 yrs old... we'll see how it'll run MR.BRAIN, time will tell hehehehehehe....

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Post by eye » Jul 2nd, '09, 18:13

xk wrote:it'll take about 7 hrs to complete according to my utorrent manager.
That is exactly why many people will stick to 480p or 396p, even if their computers are fast enough to play back high definition video.
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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 18:42

eye wrote:
xk wrote:it'll take about 7 hrs to complete according to my utorrent manager.
That is exactly why many people will stick to 480p or 396p, even if their computers are fast enough to play back high definition video.
you must be SD fan.

well, if I go to places like megaupload site 2.2GB h264/ mkv video file can be downloaded in ~1hr with the faster internet connection at my home location #2. My internet speed is slow at home location 1 so it'll take about 2.25 hrs to download 2.2GB drama. Using utorrent is what's limiting the speed as we know.

For the last year or so I've been really spoiled with the 2.2GB h264/mkv versions so anything less than that I'm not too happy. Even 1.5GB mkv versions don't look that good because the amount of bit rates are insufficient for one hour show..

720p h264 or mkv codes aren't bad, and can be run on most PCs people have these days. This needs to be set to standard. 450 or 480p's are a thing of past. lol

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Post by eye » Jul 2nd, '09, 20:16

xk wrote:you must be SD fan.
You must be a fan of slow downloads. lol
Using utorrent is what's limiting the speed as we know.
No, the size is limiting the speed. These are the current stats of MR. BRAIN ep06 RAW:

1080i: UL=41, Done=1590
720p: UL=112, Done=5783
396p: UL=269, Done=10354
720p h264 or mkv codes aren't bad, and can be run on most PCs people have these days. This needs to be set to standard. 450 or 480p's are a thing of past. lol
Hardware is not the bottleneck. Patience is.
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Post by toyotaku » Jul 2nd, '09, 20:33

eye wrote:
xk wrote:720p h264 or mkv codes aren't bad, and can be run on most PCs people have these days. This needs to be set to standard. 450 or 480p's are a thing of past. lol
Hardware is not the bottleneck. Patience is.
I would also add certain resources, such as bandwidth, drive space, and for those of us who like to keep dramas, number of discs. It's great if you have any or all of those in unlimited supply, but especially bandwidth may become increasingly limited or more expensive as ISPs put more & more caps on it. I've been extremely lucky on that score, but I know many who aren't. 300MB vs 1GB & more for an episode of a drama going 10 to 12 episodes? No contest for most people.

The reality is that the encoders in Japan that supply us with what we love aren't doing it for us, so these bandwidth limits outside of Japan mean nothing to them. We just have to live with it or do without.

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 20:52

eye wrote:
xk wrote:you must be SD fan.
You must be a fan of slow downloads. lol
Using utorrent is what's limiting the speed as we know.
No, the size is limiting the speed. These are the current stats of MR. BRAIN ep06 RAW:

1080i: UL=41, Done=1590
720p: UL=112, Done=5783
396p: UL=269, Done=10354
720p h264 or mkv codes aren't bad, and can be run on most PCs people have these days. This needs to be set to standard. 450 or 480p's are a thing of past. lol
Hardware is not the bottleneck. Patience is.
lol we ought to stop using torrents eventually. We should start paying for the service at sites like megaupload and have people upload the videos to it. We can then download at full blast, d/l speed at 500kb/s or so. But for now, I don't mind having patience to get these high quality videos.

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Post by rpger81 » Jul 2nd, '09, 21:08

xk wrote: I wouldn't really call it stupid. They're trying to keep the aspect ratio maintained because they don't want images to be "distorted" or "stretched". Granted, the difference is small and hardly noticed by most folks. This difference can be noticed for some users if bigger screens are used. :salut:
I'm talking scene rules, I really hope Japanese don't have anything similar. There are literally 100's of do's and don'ts, which confines the freedom of encoders. Any good encoder will understand PAR/SAR/DAR, I know that if I was a capper/encoder in Japan I would do it how I wanted and not follow some rules, but hopefully that's the way it is anyways.

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:05

Update:

actually the download on the Mr.Brain EP6 mp4 took me about a little over 3 hrs. i guess plenty of people are seeding it atm.. If you were to download this directly from megaupload you would finish it in an hour if you got some fast internet connection.

I'm watching the MR.BRAIN 1080i h264 mp4 Episode 6 right now as we speak. It's running smooth as butter. There is absolutely no sign of stuttering or any kind. Ladymercury, you need to check your specs and answer my questions earlier.

PQ seems quite good so far. It's looks authentic and has some crispness. it still looks a *lilly* soft.. but not to the point where I would ****... It's got reasonable amount of blacks. Colors are pretty good. I see no tint either. I'm not very impressed though.8)


.

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Post by Joe1991 » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:13

Dunno why people complain of slow downloads, not like the subs are out as soon as the RAW hits anyway, just stick it in utorrent and It'll be done in a few hours. I'd much rather have to wait a couple of hours more for a much better quality video. If we didn't we'd all be using streaming services.

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Post by Keiko1981 » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:28

As stated before. I usually download 704x396 (640x360 is also okay) and stay away from higher resolutions if possible.
Personally I have no need of them since I most of the time use 800x600 res on my desktop since I'm nearsighted.
It also has to do with the file size, drama is totally about 4,2GB it fits in on one DVD to burn. Or if you want a higher quality/file size make sure it fits on two DVDs - "Seija no Koushin" is one such example where the drama is 8 someting GB.
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Post by Joe1991 » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:32

Well I never burn them to DVD's, it made much more sense for me to buy a couple of 1TB drives.

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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:34

The j-drama "Hataraki Man" still looks better to me. it's a 720p DivX6 encode.

You can have video image on DivX6 look better than h264 MPEG4 and vise versa. The pictures will also depend on how good the original source is. How good is the camera and the settings used when recorded the shows? I think there are too many factors that need to be considered..

I can confidently say, over the years, by average K-dramas in 720p (even 450p x264 in some case) are superior to the 720p or even 1080i version of J-dramas in terms of PQ. Hataraki Man might be the closest one I have seen up-to-date to the 720p k-dramas. And from the ones I've watched I find "Nodame Cantabile" 1080i drama the most dreadful in terms of PQ. I deleted the damn thing immediately and went over to download "Beethoven Virus" 2.2gb x264 version k-drama lol. Now that looked pretty gorgeous.
Last edited by xk on Jul 2nd, '09, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by raider73 » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:38

I'm guessing 704x396 will still be around for a while since it seems to me people like to keep their PCs especially laptops for a long time. I have no job and I still upgrade every year. It's easy as long you know what you're doing. I always part out my laptop and it costs me about only $50-100 to get the latest generation laptop.

Also, any core solo should be able to run 720p x264 videos. I've tested it out and I even got a pentium M to play 720p x264 fine(no multitasking tho) so either people don't know what they're doing or their system is not efficiently running.

If you're using a desktop to view, I just can't believe why you can't play 720p x264 videos. An e5400 dual core cpu&mb was like $85 last month, I got 4GB DDR2 for like $15 during XMAS. 500GB Hard is like $50 while a 1TB hard is $75. I've seen 18X DVD burners for like $15. So for under $200, you can get yourself a hella fast system(even faster if you OC your E5400 which many have gotten to 4GHz easily.)

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Post by kuro570 » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:59

I usually get all my RAW in 1280x720 instead of 704x396 if possible. As for all the technical stuff outside of resolution I know nothing about them, I just know when I see a 1280 RAW its usually very crisp and detailed. My only problem with it is space, with these 1280x720 res files taking almost 700-2GB per episode usually starts to push my Hard drives to the limit. Then again to me that's a small price to pay for quality.

Last thing, I never knew it was possible for a modern pc to not be able to play a video, the only videos I had trouble playing were those I make with FRAPS and then I only have trouble with it in VLC but not Nero ShowTime.
Last edited by kuro570 on Jul 2nd, '09, 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by xk » Jul 2nd, '09, 22:59

Update:

I am now running MR.BRAIN 1080i h264 mp4 on my 5 year-old laptop (Intel Centrino T2400 1.83ghz). It's got only 1gb of ram. ZERO stuttering, smooth as butter. Well, my laptop is pretty tweaked up too and takes a least amount of system resource and the OS is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition. OP, you need to check your software.. it can't be your CPU.

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Post by raider73 » Jul 3rd, '09, 00:40

xk wrote:Update:

I am now running MR.BRAIN 1080i h264 mp4 on my 5 year-old laptop (Intel Centrino T2400 1.83ghz). It's got only 1gb of ram. ZERO stuttering, smooth as butter. Well, my laptop is pretty tweaked up too and takes a least amount of system resource and the OS is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition. OP, you need to check your software.. it can't be your CPU.
T2400 is a dual core processor so of course it can handle that video file.

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Post by melonyhappy » Jul 3rd, '09, 01:04

For bandwidth reasons, I hope they won't scrap it. I wish they had lower resolution korean rips. (but not as low as streaming quality or tw rmvb rips).

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Post by Sesam » Jul 3rd, '09, 01:17

Well I don't think playback performance is really an issue, even current low spec systems are capable of decoding 720p. I always download HD versions if available, the problem is just the file sizes. I think they should be encoded down to approx 500-600MB per 720p episode, assuming an efficient codec is used I think that should be sufficient. When it comes to movies I see the need for higher bitrates but for TV series storage becomes quickly an issue with 1GB+/episode files :)

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Post by xk » Jul 3rd, '09, 01:43

Sesam wrote: I think they should be encoded down to approx 500-600MB per 720p episode, assuming an efficient codec is used I think that should be sufficient. When it comes to movies I see the need for higher bitrates but for TV series storage becomes quickly an issue with 1GB+/episode files :)
Uhh... that will make the video look like s.h.i.t... MPEG4 / h264 codecs are more efficient than the MPEG2 but Even 1.5GB of MPEG4 / h264 codec on an hour show is barely enough without getting video artifacts especially in the dark scenes or shadows. With that size you would be better off with 640x352 res lol. :alcoholic:


.

xk
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Joined: Jan 27th, '08, 06:05

Post by xk » Jul 3rd, '09, 01:46

raider73 wrote:
xk wrote:Update:

I am now running MR.BRAIN 1080i h264 mp4 on my 5 year-old laptop (Intel Centrino T2400 1.83ghz). It's got only 1gb of ram. ZERO stuttering, smooth as butter. Well, my laptop is pretty tweaked up too and takes a least amount of system resource and the OS is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition. OP, you need to check your software.. it can't be your CPU.
T2400 is a dual core processor so of course it can handle that video file.
it's a dual core but it's quite a bit slower than the Core 2 Duo chips which are newer. But yeah, it's definitely faster than the Dothan chips (Pentium-M class). :roll

Sesam
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Post by Sesam » Jul 3rd, '09, 01:53

xk wrote:
Sesam wrote: I think they should be encoded down to approx 500-600MB per 720p episode, assuming an efficient codec is used I think that should be sufficient. When it comes to movies I see the need for higher bitrates but for TV series storage becomes quickly an issue with 1GB+/episode files :)
Uhh... that will make the video look like s.h.i.t... MPEG4 / h264 codecs are more efficient than the MPEG2 but Even 1.5GB of MPEG4 / h264 codec on an hour show is barely enough without getting video artifacts especially in the dark scenes or shadows. With that size you would be better off with 640x352 res lol. :alcoholic:


.
Nah it is not really as bad as you think. Take a look at JTV, Massuki, TimeLesSub and others HD encodes at 500-600MB sizes. It looks much better than the SD ones, fast action scenes are rare in Dramas, for such small files they look spectacular :). And the bitrate on HD TV broadcasts is not particularly high in the first place either.

hikkichan
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Post by hikkichan » Jul 3rd, '09, 02:19

I really don't like when I resort to upping ts files... It stays open too long... I'm using up too much bandwidth... and I always have the fear of "getting caught".

I'd encode them, but sometimes there's a small error in my recording which scratches that whole process...

Then when I can encode them, I don't really have the time as I'm usually at work the majority of the day/night.

I don't keep up with the Japanese sharing scene... I just provide what I do on jps and here... so, I really don't know if smaller resolutions will become obsolete... Hell, I still encode at those resolutions from time to time.

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eye
Posts: 93
Joined: May 2nd, '06, 20:20

Post by eye » Jul 3rd, '09, 05:42

xk wrote:lol we ought to stop using torrents eventually. We should start paying for the service at sites like megaupload and have people upload the videos to it. We can then download at full blast, d/l speed at 500kb/s or so. But for now, I don't mind having patience to get these high quality videos.
Who's gonna pay? You?

Let me remind you that we're talking about illegal content. Guess why direct download links are not allowed to be posted here. Even running a public BT tracker like this is borderline insane. It currently works only because the content owners don't care all that much.

Also you have to understand that your preferences are rather unusual. Most people do care about the plot of a drama. They watch the shows even if picture quality is not up to Blu-ray levels.
Image

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eye
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Post by eye » Jul 3rd, '09, 07:19

Sesam wrote:Nah it is not really as bad as you think. Take a look at JTV, Massuki, TimeLesSub and others HD encodes at 500-600MB sizes. It looks much better than the SD ones, fast action scenes are rare in Dramas, for such small files they look spectacular :). And the bitrate on HD TV broadcasts is not particularly high in the first place either.
One thing I noticed about some encodes here is that they come in at a constant file size per episode. This means that encoding was done in two-pass mode which is less than optimal. Some episodes do have more action and require higher bitrates than others. Making them all the same size will result in over- or undersized encodes most of the time because it's impossible to guess the optimal bitrate.

Both Xvid and x264 feature encoding modes that maintain constant visual quality but require only one encoding pass. These modes yield optimal results regardless of content because the codec will adjust bitrates on the fly and never waste bits where they are not needed.

To get an idea of how this works, take a look at these file sizes:

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents ... +all&sort=

These are constant quality H.264 encodes. Obviously the average file size is below 600 MB but there is a great deal of bitrate fluctuation. Episode 6 has many hand camera scenes and frequent scene cuts. It turned out more than 100 MB larger than episode 5. This illustrates how constant quality encoding improves bitrate distribution between episodes.
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kuma601
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Post by kuma601 » Aug 20th, '09, 00:05

Appreciate this discussion. I'm a bit lagging in hardware so I went looking for MKV info. Among our small circle many of the shows are put on DVD's for set top viewing on a range of hardware: PC, LCD, direct views.

The amount of shows one can accumulate is incredbile. Although hard drives are becoming lower per GB storage, DL'ing 1G sized shows will eat that up fast. Not all my friends have BD players nor a HT PC to play with. In their situation, getting the 704x384 sized SD works great and it saves me the CPU time of a down conversion. Also having a complete series on two DVD's is easy. Since these get passed around the expense of DVD's is minimal, passing out BD...no way.

Leading into DL'ing: some of the monster sized shows at 300-900M, SP's at 1.5G and like sizes, no big deal. I'm sure the ISP would notice if the same level of shows constantly were coming through at 1G+. As the technology advances, the size of the file is reasonable along with having improved image qualities/sound. Whatever the container...I look for the 300-700M typically but won't balk unless it is getting above 1.2G on a consistent basis, fortunately it isn't.

My ramblings... ;)

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