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Fans - Great Support or Evil Onlookers?

Talk about the culture and entertainment from Nihon.
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techie
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Fans - Great Support or Evil Onlookers?

Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 14:29

So, in the many inlays on the issues from Tsuji getting pregnant, Kago being fired for smoking, Johnny's boys being a gay-farm a'la Michael Jacksons resorts, Erika Sawajiri not being allowed to have a bad off day, and so on...

What I have been pondering over lately, are fans really that good, when you consider the results and how they treat their so-called idols when they most need their support and backing.

I came up with the following little addition, perhaps worth some consideration...
(please dont kill the messenger, consider the message instead)
---

Strong opinions sometimes provoke resistance to the obvious result, and sometimes provoke change for the better. This entry is with hope of the latter.

Since I do not write or speak Japanese (yet) however much I would like to, and if someone feels the calling to do so, feel free to translate this into Japanese, so the whole audience gets a wiff of the idea.

Ai Kago got shunned because she was caught smoking. After many years as one of the more fab performance-“couples” (Kago – Tsuji), her fans feels let down and betrayed, her manager kicked her out, and now she’s banned from H!P’s agency for smoking under aged.

Well in all respect, not for smoking, but as usual for being caught.

The young girls making up the groups Morning Musume, Berryz, AKB48 and whatever they all are named, are promoted heavily from a very young age, and put in the limelight for all ages of people, from 2 to 98, and, quite scary, often for many men aged from 30-50.

Personally I never got into the whole scene of Morning Musume and similar artistic endeavours for the very simple reason I find exploitation of children wrong and sick in all its forms and fashions. It is an absurd game created by a hyped up media industry, enjoying to make role models for your children out of other young children, which in itself may have a beneficial aspect in upbringing. Perhaps better so even than the sometimes uncalled for violent Muppet show, but at the same time, dressing 12 year olds up in outfits hardly suitable for adult cabaret shows, seems going a bit over the top.

Then, when one of the youngsters performs what can best be described by western standards, a somewhat adolescent mistake, of trying a cigarette or smoking more or less openly, they get kicked of stage, stripped of stardom, fame and success, not to mention the fact that all the hard work and effort put into this performance over many years, has gone to a complete waste as a result of the one single action done in youthful stupidity.

So ask yourself, if Ai Kago was your child, or if you where the manager of the group, are YOU without blame and responsibility for failing in supervising your child, talent, meal ticket, or whatever you could call it, and should you put the blame on the exploited children solely without considering their background?

Worth mentioning in this is also that Japan and Korea are two of the countries in the world where smoking is most spread, and common among the adult population, and considering the adults are role models for young people everywhere, can you truly blame a young person for “doing what adults are doing?”.

Shame on you, media! For not caring enough to consider who put these youngsters in the limelight to begin with.

The same goes for other young actors, actresses and performers, such as Erika Sawajiri, blocked from work for a year for having bad attitude on stage, which is not to hard to find a good reason for when you study the pressure they are under, in a camera lens somewhere all the time, not allowed to having a bad day for any reason.

In short…

LET KIDS BE KIDS AND MAKE
THE ADULTS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FIRST!

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Post by minifussy » Jan 8th, '08, 15:03

...From most of what i understood about that (although i was somewhat unaware of most of the events) you seem to have a very good point. and i indeed agree with you.

cant say as i can put anything more to that. You must have very strong views about this.

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Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 15:23

I just find it very nasty of media and fans in general to consider artists and performers more as commodities than actual people. A sad fact in every form, though all they want after a while in the industry is to be left a bit alone. I spent some time working with the field myself in younger years and didnt like it much back then, and even less now at this level.

In all, a matter of perspective and some sense of need for fans and media to be more self-regulating if you will.

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Post by minifussy » Jan 8th, '08, 17:25

Well i can certainly tell that your english.

I strogly agree that it is completely wrong (the way the media treat actors, artists, etc...)
and they do deserve to be left alone a bit, however i believe, people who chose to go into the world of entertainment, really should have had some idea in the beginning that they would be exposed to the public, and the media would take advantage of them. (obvioustly not something like the micheal jackson case or similar)

and in the case of fans... if im understanding you correctly....(i may have completely misinterpret.) i think that they should show more compassion to their fans, perhaps this is impossible if their world famous. but if people envy them, so much, i believe they have a responsibility to engage with them more, rather than shield themselves.

certianly if i was famous and people looked up to me, i would make every effort to make myself avalable to them no matter their numbers.

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Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 18:11

Actually, :lol I am not English. Just barely English speaking.
(Scandinavian though)

I completely agree any idol and performer should take great care in interacting with their fans at some levels and to the extent deemed appropriate.

What happend in the case of Kago was that fans came out stating they felt "betrayed".
Now this may be a slight translation issue as well, but I dont feel fans have the right to feel betrayed for the fact their idol does something as minute as a minor mistake, and blatantly blow things out of proportions, while at the same time, have no questions whatsoever towards the label or agency for whom these idols are working.

Even this is in its very foundation a flaw, because the performing artist is NOT working for the Agent. The purpose of the Agent being to protect the interests of the performer and as such, the agency failed blatantly in protecting Kago, Sawajiri, Johnny's kids and all others ending up with the short end of the stick.

In my personal oppinion, it is a matter of the agency failing to assume its proper position.
Just as stupid it is to see some agents claiming having rights exceeding 10% of the generated profits from any performers revenues.

Then the agency performing in a manner as to promote their standing as greater than that of its performers. Why, if there was a contract breach by the performer, would the label wish to do their "laundry" in public to begin with?


Another thing to consider, like for instance you see an actor, whom every girl from 12 and up gets a crush on, acting all tough and strong and perfect on screen after a script.
You then see them in a promotion interview, looking and behaving like lost otakus when not having a script to follow.
The later being who they really are, in the limelight like all not comfortable being without a scripted environment, jst like anyone of us would be in the same situation.

It falls on the responsibility of fans, to take a liking to a performer for the real and genuine reasons, being mainly their acting skills and performance in a certain role, rather than to passively expect the performer to be "just like that" in their private lifes.

On acting there are often two formats used for some producers and casting agencies to determin the best lead for a certain role.

You either have the JR (Dallas) type, where the man playing JR, a real evild dude, in real life is a peace loving genuine fellow, and the total opposit of the "brother" character Bobby, who in prviate is somewhat rough around the edges.

Then you have the role models, where a character is based on how the person is in real life, and they can spin of on this in a role performed.

The thing I like so much about Asian dorama is the fact they dont type cast everyone in every role, but instead you see typecasting being mre a trend in all dorama over a season or genre.

Then again, the best actors/actresses can easily perform in a sense that if it was not acting could be characterized as pure multiple personality disorders. Any role, anything they do just comes very easily and natural to them, wuithout a need to do months of researching a role to give it their best.

Like Christoffer Lamberts for instance, is there a genuine need for a primate actor to live for a set time with chimpansees just to know how to monkey around on screen. I heard he did this for 6 months before starting the shoot.
Now this in my book is not a good determinant factor for an actor,
just a very good science experiment.


the short version...
they put the ROLE before the PERSON and thats where it all goes to h***

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Post by minifussy » Jan 8th, '08, 19:10

My god...

First of all that was somewhat much easier to understand.

....it did seem that i didnt quite get the point in the first instance, but now i completely get the picture.

Second, i am English, i speak perfect English, and i had to look up words that you used in the first post (you speak better english than i do.)

Third, i definately reccommend you write a book on this, you have excellent points, you back them up with facts correctly! and your wording is perfect, (AND its persuasive) Hell, i am the most stubborn person when it comes to views, especially when ive made up my mind that my views are the right ones. And you have managed to make me completely and utterly reconsider my views on this subject. and no one but you have managed to achieve this yet.

continuing 3rd point... I do not read. At all, if you wrote a book on this, I WOULD BUY YOUR BOOK, and read it all the way through.

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Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 19:17

well thank you, that was not sort of an attempt to gain fame for myself but I have a fan club ...
do you mind if I have a cigarette now :)

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Post by minifussy » Jan 8th, '08, 20:04

you have a fan club?? really? why?

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Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 20:47

well duh, you said you would be buying my book, so my only fan is you then.
Don't expect one of those funky minimori photobooks though :D

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Post by Puppet Princess » Jan 8th, '08, 21:14

Though on a human level sure it's unfair that stars get punished so severely for such small mistakes that everyone makes. However, there is a legitimate reason this happens and is seen as "acceptable" behavior by the masses. Quite bluntly... they are famous. This are people who, whether they deserve it or not, get held up as heroes and idols. They become role models and shinning examples of who people want to strive to be like. Parents can't instill their teachings on to their children at all moments and most teenagers would rather listen to a stranger than their parents. This is where idols come into use. They are people parents can feel comfortable letting their children look up too and learn from. Once they make a mistake that they don't want children repeating (even though they probably will even without the idols bad example) they become "human" again and unfit of being a role model.

It happens in every country. Not just in the entertainment industry either. Sports, politics, even a normal school. I mean imagine he most popular girl in your high school had gotten pregnant. Honestly, how would everyone react? I doubt she'll still be prom queen.

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Post by doink-chan » Jan 8th, '08, 21:50

Puppet Princess wrote:Though on a human level sure it's unfair that stars get punished so severely for such small mistakes that everyone makes. However, there is a legitimate reason this happens and is seen as "acceptable" behavior by the masses. Quite bluntly... they are famous. This are people who, whether they deserve it or not, get held up as heroes and idols. They become role models and shinning examples of who people want to strive to be like. Parents can't instill their teachings on to their children at all moments and most teenagers would rather listen to a stranger than their parents. This is where idols come into use. They are people parents can feel comfortable letting their children look up too and learn from. Once they make a mistake that they don't want children repeating (even though they probably will even without the idols bad example) they become "human" again and unfit of being a role model.

It happens in every country. Not just in the entertainment industry either. Sports, politics, even a normal school. I mean imagine he most popular girl in your high school had gotten pregnant. Honestly, how would everyone react? I doubt she'll still be prom queen.
Yeah. I'd also add that Kago Ai had always been promoted as an idol for kids - she was in Mini Moni, which was targeted at young kids, and W also had a kid-oriented image. So really, no wonder it was a shock when she was caught breaking the law by smoking underage.

In fact, early last year, Up-Front Works (the people in charge of H!P) had been letting her work her way back up again, having her start over as an OL and then have her eventually get back to singing again. But then she was caught again dating a much older man than her, who had a sleazy reputation, and not only that but she smoked underage AGAIN! That was when she was kicked out of H!P.

So yeah, I could understand fans being shocked at this. I don't hate Ai for it - I still think she was one of the best members of H!P - but rather, I did feel some disappointment and sadness that she would do such a thing again after she was caught the first time. It just strikes me as being a really irresponsible thing to do.

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Post by ironicwave » Jan 8th, '08, 22:42

Puppet Princess wrote: It happens in every country. Not just in the entertainment industry either. Sports, politics, even a normal school. I mean imagine he most popular girl in your high school had gotten pregnant. Honestly, how would everyone react? I doubt she'll still be prom queen.
very true words, even if the sad reality behind that is blatant hypocrisy...
a lot of people seem to think raising a child boils down to instilling hypocritical values by example of judgmental behaviour...
if anything goes wrong with their offspring later they can convince others and especially themselves that tommy, dickie or janie knew they didn't appprove of that sort of thing...
parents should be trying to teach their kids not to be judgmental instead...
they should spend more time with their kids to give them real values and stop expecting everybody else and their mothers to raise their kids for them...
idealizing celebrities and taking it personally when they "let you down" with their behaviour is not exactly a sign of a stable, grounded person with a sane upbringing... :blink
doink-chan wrote:Yeah. I'd also add that Kago Ai had always been promoted as an idol for kids - she was in Mini Moni, which was targeted at young kids, and W also had a kid-oriented image. So really, no wonder it was a shock when she was caught breaking the law by smoking underage.
i bet not half as shocking as a revelation of what mom and dad really look like under that polished public veneer...
and the shocking news is, people suck...
luckily, not all of them to the same degree... :lol

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Post by techie » Jan 8th, '08, 23:02

As you say about the parental aspect in particular for Kago's case, just proves my point.
Kago's mom posing nude for a photo book, which may or may not have been cancelled after all just proves you cannot judge kids for having bad rolemodels to begin with.

And once more, if she's repeating her mistake, then of course its something on a much deeper level, but can you blame her, with such a background.

Even in the west you find it more often than what should be allowed, parents putting blame on school, kindergarten, role models, teachers and so on, rather than looking to their own lack of appropriate child rearing. Given there are rotten apples and not all are the same, but dont make a big hello in media about it, focusing so much the blame on one person only.

Also, related to the fact of the person choosing the career and placing themselves "in harms way", does not necessarily apply. Anyone who has had a half decent performance in a school play hardly did it for the purpose of the fame and riches, to be plaster boarded in the school magazine to begin with, but those who have a genuine interest in performing arts probably have a much deeper interest than being put to fame and infamy through the devious hands of scandal hungry gossip collumns.

Much more so perhaps in music than acting as for music it requires a true talent to be that good, and those that good are often not in it for the fame but for the pleasure in performing musically. Something that you risk being put through slander for the trade off in performing.

I am not sure but I guess I am lucky not being muscially inclined, and preferring to work in behind the scenes rather than on stage, though from what I have seen, it is not a pretty sight, much of what is going on.

I appreicate your feedback all.

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Post by coldfate » Jan 12th, '08, 21:13

I agree with your statement overall on a actor, how the media reacts, and how the audience receives this in general. This is unfortunately how the media works. You leech off of the hottest item because the general public take these in like pollen to bees.

But I feel that this is a very unique case. From what I've read on this thread, Kago Ai's primary audience are young audiences. I seriously doubt this will happen to young actresses and actors like Horikita Maki with a larger audience scope. It'll probably be a sensationalist topic (as usual) but nothing as dramatic as fired from an agency.

As for her, if she does bad deeds, she can potentially influence that of all her fans to act in a similar fashion especially if her primary audience are young kids. This is her price to pay for being an idol. A responsiblity at such a young age must suck and such things as "being human" is forfeit for that pretty penny that she's making.

All that claim that I make and yet I have no inkling of who Kago Ai is. Hahaha :cheers:

::EDIT::

I know, I've always hated how people blame the media on how xyz is shown therefore their kids acts like xyz thus ruining them. My conclusion is always "The parent should be responsible for their kid's actions. If nothing is distilled upon them, of course they're going to get ideas from their most favorite sources". Unfortunately, not all parents acts responsibily. And in this case, the agency imo acted accordingly for all the bad parents out there.

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