Let's learn Japanese....

Talk about the culture and entertainment from Nihon.
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ferry84
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Post by ferry84 » Feb 24th, '08, 19:24

GunbladerQ wrote:Konnichiwa minna-san!

Watashiwa nihon ga suki da!@!@!@!@

De mo.....watashiwa baka desu yooo... :crazy:

hahaha..... Jodan desu....

Haha... Hope it wasn't that bad.... :glare:

Wanted to ask.... besides greetings, what simple and casual phrases can i learn too? :cheers:

Arigoto gozaimasu... :salut:
I'll try a few
How much does this cost? Kore wa ikura desu ka
I want to eat sushi - sushi o tabetai
I love them apples the most - ringo ga ichiban suki desu
Who is the cutest in the school? - Gakko no naka de dare ga ichiban kawaii desu ka
Which movie do you like the most? Eiga no naka de dochira ga ichiban suki desu ka
Tonight I will meet friends and go drink beer - Konban tomodachi ni atte, bi-ru o nomimasu
I have a headache - atama ga itai desu

emerica1123
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Re: sorry i juz jump in and start asking question....

Post by emerica1123 » Feb 25th, '08, 05:49

NanaTorigawa wrote:
bluenvision wrote:
zyerath wrote:i really interested in learning japanese
but there's no japanese class nearby, so im thinking learning by myself, is it possible??

so i wanna ask in what order do i learn the stuff??

japanese character (hiragana n katakana) and their pronounciation
grammar
learn by phrase
learn from anime/dorama/tv show with help from subs(what i've been doin so far)
Zyerath, firstly learn the writing of hiragana and katakana and prononciation of them. Try to memorize 6 in a week. In our classes , we had two 3-hour classes , our teacher thought us 3 at the end of each 3-hour classes. We are still following the same thing for kanji too. ~~ It would be good if you had a book to study with. Then go with the grammer, but try not to get so attached to romanized characters or else u won't be able to read the hiragana/katakana writings and so on. Also, don't try to learn all the characters at once or else u'll just mix all. @.@

FOr us it was almost the same.... We learn a-o first week and had a test on the friday... then till the end of the year we learn all Hiragana and katakana... Though i may be the only one that knows them in the class... hahaha
My friend is the 2nd best... he quickly learning.. last year he didn't care much...
Lol in my japanese class we had to learn all hiragana and katakana within the first month of class. It was a little difficult at the time but now its sooo easy to read and write. Im glad they didnt spend all year on it. Right now be have to learn about 50 or so kanji a month. Its actually not that much considering how many there are

GunbladerQ
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Post by GunbladerQ » Feb 25th, '08, 07:14

ferry84 wrote: I'll try a few
How much does this cost? Kore wa ikura desu ka
I want to eat sushi - sushi o tabetai
I love them apples the most - ringo ga ichiban suki desu
Who is the cutest in the school? - Gakko no naka de dare ga ichiban kawaii desu ka
Which movie do you like the most? Eiga no naka de dochira ga ichiban suki desu ka
Tonight I will meet friends and go drink beer - Konban tomodachi ni atte, bi-ru o nomimasu
I have a headache - atama ga itai desu
Thanks... Domo :cheers:

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lynchmob72
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Post by lynchmob72 » Feb 28th, '08, 11:34

GunbladerQ wrote:
ferry84 wrote: I'll try a few
How much does this cost? Kore wa ikura desu ka
I want to eat sushi - sushi o tabetai
I love them apples the most - ringo ga ichiban suki desu
Who is the cutest in the school? - Gakko no naka de dare ga ichiban kawaii desu ka
Which movie do you like the most? Eiga no naka de dochira ga ichiban suki desu ka
Tonight I will meet friends and go drink beer - Konban tomodachi ni atte, bi-ru o nomimasu
I have a headache - atama ga itai desu
Thanks... Domo :cheers:

It's domou btw. :)

Heres what it would look like in Hiragana ..some kanji.

How much does this cost? これはいくらですか?
I want to eat sushi- すしおたべたい。
i love apples the most. りんごがいちばんすきです!
who is the cutest in school? 画っ子のなかでだれがいちばんかわいいですか?
which movie do you like the best? 映画のなかでどちらがいちばんすきですか?
Tonight, i will meet friends and go drink beer. 今晩ともだちにあってびいるおのみます。
I have a headache. あたまがいたいです。
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fairytwix
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Post by fairytwix » Feb 28th, '08, 13:29

lynchmob72 wrote:
GunbladerQ wrote:
ferry84 wrote: I'll try a few
How much does this cost? Kore wa ikura desu ka
I want to eat sushi - sushi o tabetai
I love them apples the most - ringo ga ichiban suki desu
Who is the cutest in the school? - Gakko no naka de dare ga ichiban kawaii desu ka
Which movie do you like the most? Eiga no naka de dochira ga ichiban suki desu ka
Tonight I will meet friends and go drink beer - Konban tomodachi ni atte, bi-ru o nomimasu
I have a headache - atama ga itai desu
Thanks... Domo :cheers:

It's domou btw. :)

Heres what it would look like in Hiragana ..some kanji.

How much does this cost? これはいくらですか?
I want to eat sushi- すしおたべたい。
i love apples the most. りんごがいちばんすきです!
who is the cutest in school? 画っ子のなかでだれがいちばんかわいいですか?
which movie do you like the best? 映画のなかでどちらがいちばんすきですか?
Tonight, i will meet friends and go drink beer. 今晩ともだちにあってびいるおのみます。
I have a headache. あたまがいたいです。
ok...just correcting some errors here...heheheh..

*its not domo nor domou but DOUMO ~ どうも

*Who is the cutest in in school? the kanji for school is wrong, also you could do without the "no naka" - 学校でだれがいちばんかわいいですか?

*Tonight, I will meet my friends and go drink beer. For this phrase there are 2 possible ways of saying it.
1) 今晩、友達と会います。それから、ビールを飲みに行きます。
Konban, tomodachi to aimasu. Sorekara, biiru wo nomi ni ikimasu.
Tonight, I'll meet my friends. Thenn go to drink beer.
2) 今晩、友だちとビールを飲みに会います。
Konban, tomodachi to biiru wo nomini aimasu.
Tonight, I'll meet with my friends to drink beer.

Hope I helped clear some things up. ^^
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gimme some bigbangin lovin
b-b-b-but I love you boy ~

kendo_bc
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Post by kendo_bc » Mar 27th, '08, 23:57

Just thought I would pop in my 2 cents worth. (=

Practice your pronunciation! I know people who have lived in Japan for years and can speak conversational Japanese but their pronunciation is atrocious. They will always sound like gaijin no matter how long they are here. Break that bad habit before it becomes a life time thing. Japanese pronunciation is VERY easy compared to English.

Practice those short forms and keep in mind that overuse of です、-ます、-ました、etc will sound a little weird in casual conversation. Also don't overuse わたし, it's implied a lot.
たとえば: Is there a pencil? エンピツがあるの?With a rise on intonation on the の. I hear this a lot over here. My wife uses it all the time also.

Be careful of gender specific phrases, such as the short form of わからない that is used by women: わかない. I wanted to use it but I have learned to always check so I asked my wife and she said it's mainly used by women. So be careful!

Never take anything at face value. I find it's always good to double check meanings. I find books usually have atleast a couple iffy explanations/definitions or that the meaning has changed in popular culture since the book was published. Always try and check with native speakers if possible. Don't just say something like "Is it okay to say this?" because Japanese love to say yes without correcting you. Always try and make sure you are saying something properly. "Is this proper Japanese?" "Is this how you say it?" are great phrases to use.

Practice your rhythm. I find a lot of gaijin have trouble with this because it's not taught a lot I guess. They say a sentence without the correct pauses. I was actually surprised a few weeks ago because I met a gaijin lady that had great rhythm when speaking, wasn't expecting it. (= Just listen to the talkers in dramas, tv variety shows, etc. But be careful, in some shows they will place extra stress to make things funny or what not. Try and look for patterns and go with those. Like above, ask a native speaker if possible if your pauses are ok. Whenever I speak or study I always try and get my rhythm correct, sloppy practice leads to sloppy habits.

And I am sure people have said it before in this thread. Romaji is the devil. (= Don't use it! Get those hiragana/katakana under your belt. Don't neglect the katakana over the hiragana. When I came to Japan I knew katakana but it was pretty slow and sometimes a little spotty. It is used a lot over here!! Also get that kanji learning going asap. It's actually fun to learn them!

Oh and if you like reading japanese recipes and want to learn how to read them properly go to a japanese website with recipes and use rikaichan! It helps to learn all those kanji and kanji combos easily!! Then create a little cheat sheet and use it to help your understanding of recipes.

Whoops, got a little long. (=

Cheers,

Kendo

thbirdman
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Post by thbirdman » Mar 31st, '08, 07:12

lynchmob72 wrote:
GunbladerQ wrote:
ferry84 wrote: I'll try a few
How much does this cost? Kore wa ikura desu ka
I want to eat sushi - sushi o tabetai
I love them apples the most - ringo ga ichiban suki desu
Who is the cutest in the school? - Gakko no naka de dare ga ichiban kawaii desu ka
Which movie do you like the most? Eiga no naka de dochira ga ichiban suki desu ka
Tonight I will meet friends and go drink beer - Konban tomodachi ni atte, bi-ru o nomimasu
I have a headache - atama ga itai desu
Thanks... Domo :cheers:

It's domou btw. :)

Heres what it would look like in Hiragana ..some kanji.

How much does this cost? これはいくらですか?
I want to eat sushi- すしおたべたい。
i love apples the most. りんごがいちばんすきです!
who is the cutest in school? 画っ子のなかでだれがいちばんかわいいですか?
which movie do you like the best? 映画のなかでどちらがいちばんすきですか?
Tonight, i will meet friends and go drink beer. 今晩ともだちにあってびいるおのみます。
I have a headache. あたまがいたいです。
Correction:
I want to eat sushi should be sushi ga tabetai instead of o tabetai
すしが食べたい。

zenitse
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Post by zenitse » Mar 31st, '08, 22:03

Sure? Why? Can you explain?

thbirdman
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Post by thbirdman » Apr 1st, '08, 00:44

yea, it is counter intuitive. The reason you use ga instead of wo is because after u change taberu to tabetai, it's no longer a verb. What you end up with, is instead of an object and a verb, you get a noun and an adjective. sushi ga tabetai has the same word relationship as sora ga aoi or hito ga oi.

zenitse
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Post by zenitse » Apr 1st, '08, 09:59

Ah,thanks. I've been studying for 3 years, and intuitively I would maybe say *ga*, but I had no idea that wo cannot be used.

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apartofmylife
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Post by apartofmylife » Apr 1st, '08, 12:51

The noun and adjective relationship is interesting. It's fun to know japanese grammar.
Since japanese is my native language, I don't know the grammar very well^^;

I say" すし が たべたい Sushi ga tabetai" or " a noun ga a verb (--tai form)" a lot,intuitively
and it sounds natural.
But if you ask ”すし を たべたい Sushi wo tabetai" is not correct Japanese, I would say it's not incorrect.
We also use を (wo), but maybe when we just say "I want to eat sushi" we usually use "が (ga)"
すし (sushi)お (o) たべたい (tabetai) is incorrect.


If you say "すし が たべたい (Sushi ga tabetai)" , maybe it sounds more strong feeling that you want to
eat sushi than if you say "すし を たべたい。(Sushi wo tabetai)”
I might be wrong^^;

You can also say,
"えいが を みたい。(Eiga wo mitai) I want to see a movie"
"くつ を かいたい。 (Kutsu wo kaitai) I want to buy shoes"
and so on...

Of course you can use が (ga)for the sentences above.
"えいが が みたい。(Eiga ga mitai) I want to see a movie"
"くつ が かいたい。(Kutsu ga kaitai) I want to buy shoes"

* お(o) and を(wo) sound the same, but some people distinguish them.
Last edited by apartofmylife on Apr 2nd, '08, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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paramaya
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Post by paramaya » Apr 1st, '08, 14:34

@apartomylife
sumimasen...
I am learning japanese through movies and some books by myself.
the fact is I am not intentionally studying japanese, but I like j-dramas so much, and kind of hate reading the subtitles.
could you please just use romaji instead of Kanji? coz' I don't know how the Kanji/Hira/Katagana sounds in your lesson.

arigato.

smilesmile19
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Post by smilesmile19 » Apr 1st, '08, 18:45

I think its also important to mention the use of formal and informal.

For the most part, formal tense should be used, out of respect to those you may come across in japan. Though, maybe in very casual settings you could use informal amongst your peers, and people you know very well of course.

For example: すしが食べたい I want to eat sushi
(Sushi ga tabetai)

is informal speech. It's really important to know the differences because, as far as I have experienced, some people can take offense to speak in such a manner to them. Especially professors if any of you plan to study abroad in Japan.

Usually in Jdramas, informal japanese is used, and slang and so forth.

In most cases, to change the previous sentence to formal, です(desu) should be added to the end of the sentence.

example: すしが食べたいです。 I want to eat sushi
(Sushi ga tabetai desu. )

Just thought I would at my two cents.

kendo_bc
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Post by kendo_bc » Apr 1st, '08, 22:24

smilesmile19 wrote: In most cases, to change the previous sentence to formal, です(desu) should be added to the end of the sentence.

example: すしが食べたいです。 I want to eat sushi
(Sushi ga tabetai desu. )

Just thought I would at my two cents.
Just a small addition.

To be a little more formal you would probably add お before the すし。

example: すしが食べたいです。

You add お to a variety of words to make them more formal.

There are different levels of formality. Not using ですwould be for friends, relaxed conversation. If you are talking at work in a non-relaxed setting or perhaps to a senpai (someone your senior), then you could add です. to it. There are even higher levels of formal speech, such as if you were talking to your boss or perhaps a customer.

BUT as a gaijin don't worry about it too much, just practice your Japanese and don't worry if you use or don't use です. Japanese will be happy you are using their language and you will pick up how to use it as you listen to people talk. Then once you are a little more informed you can add it into your speech.

Dislcaimer: Don't take my word on this as 100% true, or anyones for that matter. This is just stuff I have come across while studying/listening to Japanese. These are just suggestions, always look it up yourself and study further. I will be the first admit that I don't know everything. (=

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NanaTorigawa
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Post by NanaTorigawa » Apr 2nd, '08, 03:00

hahah... just realized that Apartofmylife was writing in kana.. hahaha.... i'm so use to reaidn kana that it was able to read...O___O.....
anyway.... as i was goign to say... i just learned this in japanese class today....

and also "hoshii desu"
sushi ga hoshii desu.

haha.... and talkign to the japanese students at my school if fun.... now i have new phrase
Jin Akanishi hoshii!!!!! hahaha
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apartofmylife
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Post by apartofmylife » Apr 2nd, '08, 11:05

I think です(desu) form and ます(masu) form are necessary too.
I work from Monday to Friday so I use desu/masu form most of my time^^
It would be even nicer if you speak to people with desu/masu like when you travel to Japan^^
But please don't be afraid of speaking Japanese just because you don't know desu/masu form.
We are happy if you are using our language^^
Some speak to you in English even if you speak to them in Japanese though...^^;;

@paramaya :Sumimasen that I didn't write romaji. I edited my post. I hope it helps!
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Erubey
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Post by Erubey » Apr 11th, '08, 01:18

If you guys really want to impress those japanese people or get on it, throw in some keigo(敬語)

これをご覧になってください

It always surprises people

Have fun guys

paramaya
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Post by paramaya » Apr 11th, '08, 14:49

I heard in j-dorama he says "atama itai" meaning "my head hurts" or "I have a headache". is it OK or I didn't quite catch the ga particle among.?

soshite, my book only gives these examples: "kuruma o kaitai desu", "sashimi o tabetai desu", "gorufu o shitai desu", never mentions about verbs in the sentences being adjective so I would say i.e. sashimi ga tabetai instead of the one used in the book.. but well, because it's japanese themselves who spoke, I would just do it like that.

NIHON NO DORAMA GA DAISUKI KARA. (dunno if this is correct, coz 'kara' means 'from', but from doramas I watched I'd assume it means 'because' ??).
Last edited by paramaya on Apr 11th, '08, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

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XiaoPauli
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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 11th, '08, 15:22

paramaya wrote:I heard in j-dorama he says "atama itai" meaning "my heart hurts" or "I have a headache". is it OK or I didn't quite catch the ga particle among.?
The "ga" particle is sometimes dropped in casual speech.
paramaya wrote:soshite, my book only gives these examples: "kuruma o kaitai desu", "sashimi o tabetai desu", "gorufu o shitai desu", never mentions about verbs in the sentences being adjective so I would say i.e. sashimi ga tabetai instead of the one used in the book.. but well, because it's japanese themselves who spoke, I would just do it like that.
There are two grammar elements mentioned in this paragraph. The first one is the "tai" form. The second is the dropping of the "desu" form. Here's some examples to illustrate their uses:

sashimi o tabemasu = i (will) eat sashimi [formal]
sashimi o taberu = i (will) eat sashimi [casual]
sashimi o tabetai desu = i (will) want to eat sashimi [formal]
sashimi o tabetai = i (will) want to eat sashimi [formal]

The (will) indicates that the sentence could also be used in future tense. The "tai" essentially means "to want," but the form conjugates like an adjective. For -ru verbs, you first convert it to -masu form, drop the -masu, then you add the -tai at the end. You add "desu" at the end to make it formal, or leave it out to make it casual. For the use of "ga" instead of "o," there's no easy answer to that since it depends on the context.
paramaya wrote:NIHON NO DORAMA GA DAISUKI KARA. (dunno if this is correct, coz 'kara' means 'from', but from doramas I watched I'd assume it means 'because' ??).
When "kara" is used to end the sentence, the meaning doesn't mean "from" anymore. Instead, it means "since" or "it's because." So in English, the sentence becomes "It's because / Since I really love Japanese dramas."

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paramaya
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Post by paramaya » Apr 11th, '08, 20:25

Thanks a lot XiaoPauli. So, that's all about someone wanting to say something short, though strangers will get confused if they insist on following the rule they're taught.
As for ga, wa, o being used in which context and when, maybe some more examples will help clear things up (PHEW, need to learn and listen more..). I think counter intuitive is the best answer right (if you know what I mean)? Well done thbirdman and apartomylife.

Prab
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Post by Prab » Apr 12th, '08, 03:16

Should I study hiragana, katakana or both at the same time?

Right now I'm studying both at the same time. I just want to know if its better to learn one of them before learning the other.

Erubey
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Post by Erubey » Apr 13th, '08, 03:12

Both. If you are serious about learning japanese, it's so beginner that there really isn't a difference which.

Prab
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Post by Prab » Apr 13th, '08, 21:50

I have half of them memorized perfectly now :). Going to finish learning the rest today. What is recommended for me to do next after I'm done learning those. I read some Japanese today(it wasn't romaji too "yay") and was able to say what was written. Haven't focused on the vocabulary yet though. I wanted to know kana first. After I learned Hiragana and Katakana, should I move on to kanji(only know a few), grammar(studied a bit before I went to study kana) and vocabulary? Anything else I need to focus on?

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XiaoPauli
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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 13th, '08, 22:17

Prab wrote:I have half of them memorized perfectly now :). Going to finish learning the rest today. What is recommended for me to do next after I'm done learning those. I read some Japanese today(it wasn't romaji too "yay") and was able to say what was written. Haven't focused on the vocabulary yet though. I wanted to know kana first. After I learned Hiragana and Katakana, should I move on to kanji(only know a few), grammar(studied a bit before I went to study kana) and vocabulary? Anything else I need to focus on?
You should spend at least another week or two on hiragana and katakana, especially hiragana. If you're reading both scripts and hesitate for a moment before connecting their pronunciation, then I would recommend spending more time memorizing them. If you move on without mastery, your learning will be much slower in the long run than had you spend some more time on it. I always tell my friends to stress studying the two scripts until it feels absolutely natural, like a native speaker. Most university Japanese language courses have students spend at least three weeks on the two scripts anyway.

Prab
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Post by Prab » Apr 13th, '08, 22:36

For half of them I know instantly what the pronunciation is :D but I know what you mean and I'll continue studying them. All I've been doing is studying them. So much fun!!

P.S Thanks Erubey and XiaoPauli for being helpful and supportive. Of course big thanks to D-addicts too and All the D-Addicts forum members. Keep your addictions strong.

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lynchmob72
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Post by lynchmob72 » Apr 14th, '08, 01:00

Your best bet is to get books written in Kana to do lessons from, or just to keep up your reading comprehension. It may be easy to memorize, but is also easy to forget if you don't see it constantly.
I believe japanese children books are written in hiragana, which also may help out your vocabulary and grammar. That's my plan anyway.
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torerling
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Post by torerling » Apr 14th, '08, 05:44

The genki books have furigana on all kanji, so It may help, It's also good to get manga containing furigana, now, as long as you keep in mind that manga doesn't teach you gooe grammar or a usable vocab :P

Prab
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Post by Prab » Apr 14th, '08, 17:51

Any good genki and manga containing furigana that I should read?

torerling
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Post by torerling » Apr 14th, '08, 18:17

Prab wrote:Any good genki and manga containing furigana that I should read?
げんき (genki) bookset for learning japanese published by japan times. Usually considered the best japanese textbooks, for reading, if you can get 鋼の錬金術師 (full metal alchemist) that's a very good series of manga :)

Prab
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Post by Prab » Apr 14th, '08, 20:32

http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/ ?

What do you recommend I get first? Just text book 1 for now?

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lynchmob72
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Post by lynchmob72 » Apr 14th, '08, 20:56

Yeah, 1 book at a time. :)
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torerling
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Post by torerling » Apr 14th, '08, 21:24

Prab wrote:http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/ ?

What do you recommend I get first? Just text book 1 for now?
Mm, that's the one, the most important things are, genki 1, and the workbook, get yourself a good dictionary and take your time with the things, so that you understand everything and have done the excercises and not just do it fast, believe me, you'll get it back if you don't do it properly ;)

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Post by Prab » Apr 14th, '08, 22:34

Thanks torerling!!

After I finish doing the first textbooks and workbooks(slowly) should I move on to the second textbooks and workbooks. Also how long should it take to do the first part? So I know what pace I should go at.

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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 15th, '08, 00:08

I went through three different kinds of Japanese language textbooks in college. I definitely agree that the Genki series by the Japan Times is by far the best of them. Since you're also doing self-study instead of classroom study, I highly recommend you check out the link below to supplement your learning:

http://www.davidhallgren.se/nihon/default.asp

In traditional classroom settings, they usually go through half a book per semester. Accelerated programs or language programs in Japan might go through the entire book in one semester. You can go at a pace you're comfortable with once you start getting to the chapters. It's the beginning that should definitely be stressed, since how well you learn the fundamental material in the beginning decides how fast you will learn later on.

I guess the best measure of whether you're done with the first book is when you get to the second book. If you're struggling a lot in the second book, it means there is some work still left to do in the first book. It's a really nicely organized textbook.

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 15th, '08, 01:16

paramaya wrote:Thanks a lot XiaoPauli. So, that's all about someone wanting to say something short, though strangers will get confused if they insist on following the rule they're taught.
As for ga, wa, o being used in which context and when, maybe some more examples will help clear things up (PHEW, need to learn and listen more..). I think counter intuitive is the best answer right (if you know what I mean)? Well done thbirdman and apartomylife.
hmmm....ye...the uses of the particles sometimes tend to be confusing..i finished my first year of "proper" japanese learning..(meaning..im studying it in university atm, goodbye to self-teaching..) but, once you hear a lot of sentence patterns...you kinda get used to it..at the moment, here are some "patterns" i noticed on which particle to use and when..correct me if im wrong..^^

1)は - well, i don't think this one is really confusing.. why? because so far(from what i've learned), this particle has only served ONE purpose..its just a topic marker... so, it's got the same purpose as "is, are".. with this particle, your just saying that the that "something" is what you are talking about in your sentence.

学校は午前9時から午後4時までです。
がっこうはごぜん9じからごご4じまでです。
School is from 9am to 4pm.

2) がーon the other hand, is used when connecting the adjective and some verbs to the subject or object of the sentence. Here are some common sentence patterns.

N -NOUN

1)Nが あります・いませ・わかります
わたしのかぞくは さんにんが います。
There are 3 people in my family.
(Literal) My family has 3 people.

つくえのうえに さしんが あります。
There is a picture on top of the table.
(Literal) On top of the table, there is a picture.

2) Nが 好きです・きらいです。
あめが 好きです。
I like rain.

やさいが きらいです。
I hate/don't like vegetables. (I think for this one "dislike" is more appropriate, since "hate" is such a strong word, so you might have to use "だいきらい” for the one..not sure..)

3)Nが じょうずです・へたです。
りょりが じょうずです。
I'm good in cooking. OR I can cook well.

サッカーが へたです。
I'm bad at soccer.

4)Nが ほしいです。
あたらしい くるまが ほしいです。
I want a new car.

Now, が can also be used when trying to use the ”たい” form of the verb, but it can only be used to replace the particle ”を”, apart from that, the necessary particle has to be used.

わたしは おきなわへ いきたいです。 (I want to go to Okinawa)
You can't say: わたしは おきなわが いきたいです。

However, for this sentence: わたしは でんぷらを たべたいです。 (I want to eat tenpura)
You can say: わたしは てんぷらが たべたいです。
OR
Q: こうべで なにを (が) かいたいですか?(What do you want to buy in Kobe?)
A: くつを(が) かいたいです。(I want to buy shoes)

also, ”が” can act also mean "but"..

すみませんですが、今べんきょうしています。
I'm sorry but, I'm studying right now.

かわいいですが、ちょっとたかいですね。。。
It is cute, but a little expensive.

3) をー hmmmmm....for this one, as far as i know, it just marks the object of the verb right? But only for some verbs though, cos like, there is "へ"

ジュースを のみます。
I drink juice.

えきで しんぶんを かみあす。
I buy newspaper at the station.


Hope this helps..I'm still learning as well..hahahah.. i tried making some of the sentence really simple..in case someone might not understand..and, i tried to eliminate the kanjis as much as possible..
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Post by torerling » Apr 15th, '08, 06:13

XiaoPauli wrote: In traditional classroom settings, they usually go through half a book per semester. Accelerated programs or language programs in Japan might go through the entire book in one semester. You can go at a pace you're comfortable with once you start getting to the chapters. It's the beginning that should definitely be stressed, since how well you learn the fundamental material in the beginning decides how fast you will learn later on.

I guess the best measure of whether you're done with the first book is when you get to the second book. If you're struggling a lot in the second book, it means there is some work still left to do in the first book. It's a really nicely organized textbook.
I'm taking a bachelor in japanese language and we do one genki book per semester the first year and then we'll stay for half a year in a japanese university, study at the university at home for half a year, and then for a full year at a japanese university, One genki book in half a year with self study is far too fast I think though, it's harder to pick up the fine grained things when you don't have a teacher that really knows the language, (Yeah and teacher, not a usual person).

The books are really good, the only strange things are some of the english words that areused, they're a bit off, now, english is my third language, and some times the edit is strange:P Just keep at it, and write a lot :)

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Post by paramaya » Apr 15th, '08, 16:31

@fairytwix: thanks for the long explanation. it really helps for the time
being. somehow i managed to get the
kana tables coz my japanese lesson book doesn't contain them, so all
written in romaji. well, this way, i eventually start getting serious
with the lesson, though i said that the reason i learned japanese was
just to get rid of the subtitles, and to enjoy watching j-dramas more.

but it took me not less than an hour to read your post with so many kana
(and some kanji). i was just figuring out what u actually wanted to say,
and how those kanji words sound.

btw, it's good for you to study the language 'properly'. ganbatte ne.

soshite minna san, i keep hearing a word (or phrase?) translated as
"rather than that" in j-dramas i watch. it sounds like "suriyori" or
something like that, i don't know. could you plz tell me?

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Post by zenitse » Apr 15th, '08, 17:05

Sore yori. yori usually means literally something like "rather than...". Sore = that (over there)

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Post by paramaya » Apr 15th, '08, 21:35

zenitse wrote:Sore yori. yori usually means literally something like "rather than...". Sore = that (over there)
thanks,.. :)

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 15th, '08, 22:22

paramaya wrote:@fairytwix: thanks for the long explanation. it really helps for the time
being. somehow i managed to get the
kana tables coz my japanese lesson book doesn't contain them, so all
written in romaji. well, this way, i eventually start getting serious
with the lesson, though i said that the reason i learned japanese was
just to get rid of the subtitles, and to enjoy watching j-dramas more.

but it took me not less than an hour to read your post with so many kana
(and some kanji). i was just figuring out what u actually wanted to say,
and how those kanji words sound.

btw, it's good for you to study the language 'properly'. ganbatte ne.

soshite minna san, i keep hearing a word (or phrase?) translated as
"rather than that" in j-dramas i watch. it sounds like "suriyori" or
something like that, i don't know. could you plz tell me?
ahaha..it's good that you understood it!! ^^ im not too sure how far everyone's japanese is..although im not saying that im THAT good at the language myself either.. but ye..

well, for me, the best way to learn japanese is actually "REPETITIVENESS".. i just repeat and do everything over and over again...like, for practicing kana..i just read as much as i can all the time..even when theyv got kanjis on them, i just read the kanas ikn0.. also when you're writing, rather than writing it in romaji first(as some i kn0w tend to do), its best write it directly in kana..just keep the "list" handy..so if you don't know how to write a certain kana, you cud just look..ne?? ^^ same with kanjis, just write them over and over again..hahahaah..sometimes i feel like such a loser doing so...but it pays off in the long run..believe me! ^^

oh ye, and with the grammar structures..defo do the excercises in w/e books you've got..coz they really help..i actually find myself trying to do various sentence patterns in my mind (with the vocab i know) whenever im bored..hahaha..and as you go along, you'll actually know if you did it right..

じゃ。。。みんなさん。。。がんばりまsひょうね!! ときどき、私ももんだいがある、てつだってね?
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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 15th, '08, 22:43

fairytwix wrote:
paramaya wrote:@fairytwix:

じゃ。。。みんなさん。。。がんばりまsひょうね!! ときどき、私ももんだいがある、てつだってね?

You mean がんばりましょうね、or more commonly がんばってくださいね!!!

:thumleft:

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 16th, '08, 00:39

lincorp.com wrote:
fairytwix wrote:
paramaya wrote:@fairytwix:

じゃ。。。みんなさん。。。がんばりまsひょうね!! ときどき、私ももんだいがある、てつだってね?

You mean がんばりましょうね、or more commonly がんばってくださいね!!!

:thumleft:
lol

as you can tell...typo..i didn't really look at what i was typing afterwards...thanks nweis.. also, if i did say "がんばってください", i'm saying "do your best" and i'm not included in the action.. whereas, if i say ”がんばりましょう” im saying, "let's all do our best!"
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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 16th, '08, 01:40

In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう” but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。

:D

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 16th, '08, 02:02

lincorp.com wrote:In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう” but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。

:D
haha..please don't mock me...i do thank you for correcting me..after all, this is the "learning japanese" section right? i'm here to learn as well too... :roll :roll
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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 16th, '08, 03:41

fairytwix wrote:
lincorp.com wrote:In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう” but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。

:D
haha..please don't mock me...i do thank you for correcting me..after all, this is the "learning japanese" section right? i'm here to learn as well too... :roll :roll
Oh no i wouldn't dream of mocking the 先生she might give me detention or worse yet flunk me :sweat:

Anyways we should get back on topic or face the wrath of the admins... :-)

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Post by torerling » Apr 16th, '08, 16:12

lincorp.com wrote:In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう” but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。

:D
Unless it is hard to see from the context I would not add the subject, if it's there and you don't need it it feels a bit strange :P

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 16th, '08, 22:01

lincorp.com wrote:
fairytwix wrote:
lincorp.com wrote:In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう” but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。

:D
haha..please don't mock me...i do thank you for correcting me..after all, this is the "learning japanese" section right? i'm here to learn as well too... :roll :roll
Oh no i wouldn't dream of mocking the 先生she might give me detention or worse yet flunk me :sweat:

Anyways we should get back on topic or face the wrath of the admins... :-)
well...i feel that your either mocking me or patronizing me by continuing to call me "先生”, when it is quite obvious from my last post, ALBEIT not mentioned that id rather not be called that..

nweis, torerling also mentioned, in japanese, they rarely include the subject of the sentence or conversation unless it is obscure or difficult to notice. furthermore the form "Verb-ましょうか” conveys the meaning "SHALL WE....." it's like saying, ”行きましょうか?” or "shall we go?" .... you would find it weird to say "いっしょに行きましょうか”、 unless it is under it's in a different context where for example, you are talking to that person over the phone and asking him/her ”shall we go together?"

you can actually notice these sentence patterns when you watch anime/dramas. and even my japanese friends tell me that they tend to omit the subjects in their conversations as well...
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Post by torerling » Apr 16th, '08, 22:08

fairytwix wrote:
well...i feel that your either mocking me or patronizing me by continuing to call me "先生”, when it is quite obvious from my last post, ALBEIT not mentioned that id rather not be called that..

nweis, torerling also mentioned, in japanese, they rarely include the subject of the sentence or conversation unless it is obscure or difficult to notice. furthermore the form "Verb-ましょうか” conveys the meaning "SHALL WE....." it's like saying, ”行きましょうか?” or "shall we go?" .... you would find it weird to say "いっしょに行きましょうか”、 unless it is under it's in a different context where for example, you are talking to that person over the phone and asking him/her ”shall we go together?"

you can actually notice these sentence patterns when you watch anime/dramas. and even my japanese friends tell me that they tend to omit the subjects in their conversations as well...
usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary.

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 16th, '08, 22:16

torerling wrote: usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary.
うんんん。。。same here..i think its because, unlike english, japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns in their sentences...even in writing, all you need to do is mention the topic once or twice in your first few sentences, and then you can continue talking without mention the "topic" or "subject" again. Otherwise, it will also sound redundant write?
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Post by torerling » Apr 16th, '08, 22:19

fairytwix wrote:
torerling wrote: usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary.
うんんん。。。same here..i think its because, unlike english, japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns in their sentences...even in writing, all you need to do is mention the topic once or twice in your first few sentences, and then you can continue talking without mention the "topic" or "subject" again. Otherwise, it will also sound redundant write?
It's not that they don't have them, they just don't use them ;P It also depends, if you are good friends you may not even have to mention the topic once.. In short forms even more is dropped, and some times you just end up with two or three word sentences that has a whole lot of meaning ;) funfunfun ;)

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 16th, '08, 23:31

torerling wrote:
fairytwix wrote:
torerling wrote: usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary.
うんんん。。。same here..i think its because, unlike english, japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns in their sentences...even in writing, all you need to do is mention the topic once or twice in your first few sentences, and then you can continue talking without mention the "topic" or "subject" again. Otherwise, it will also sound redundant write?
It's not that they don't have them, they just don't use them ;P It also depends, if you are good friends you may not even have to mention the topic once.. In short forms even more is dropped, and some times you just end up with two or three word sentences that has a whole lot of meaning ;) funfunfun ;)
well...ye, they do have some...but they don't really use it as much as we do in english do they? it's like, when i ask my friends which is better to use to say "you" in japanaese, "anata" or "kimi" they go and say, you might as well say the name of the person you are talking about...hahaha..but ye, i agree tho, they don't really like using it...

what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...

aaaah...need to revise for my japanese exam actually..hehehe
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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 17th, '08, 01:03

I understand where you are both coming from with the short form, but in my line of work, its all polite or honorifics so the longer and more concise, the better...In drama and anime, the spoken form is usually extremely casual so if your purely learning to understand it then its not an issue but if you plan to ever work for a japanese company then that wont cut it.

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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 17th, '08, 03:37

fairytwix wrote:what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.

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Post by torerling » Apr 17th, '08, 06:19

XiaoPauli wrote:
fairytwix wrote:what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
And about the long and short forms that one guy mentions, it's well and OK to know long forms and you can get a long way with them, but to speak in long forms you have to know the short forms, because a lot of longform grammar use shorts in the middle, such as んです つもりです、から、and so on.. and you don't want to work all the time, that makes jack dull boy you know, and if you ever get close to any one, it's better to speak in shorts..

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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 17th, '08, 06:32

torerling wrote:
XiaoPauli wrote:
fairytwix wrote:what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
And about the long and short forms that one guy mentions, it's well and OK to know long forms and you can get a long way with them, but to speak in long forms you have to know the short forms, because a lot of longform grammar use shorts in the middle, such as んです つもりです、から、and so on.. and you don't want to work all the time, that makes jack dull boy you know, and if you ever get close to any one, it's better to speak in shorts..
Short form is actually easy, its transitioning from short to long that is difficult for me anyways...thats what im trying to get use to right now. Personally i prefer short form cause its much easier to converse in.

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Post by torerling » Apr 17th, '08, 06:35

lincorp.com wrote: Short form is actually easy, its transitioning from short to long that is difficult for me anyways...thats what im trying to get use to right now. Personally i prefer short form cause its much easier to converse in.
And long forms isn't hard either, it's just a bit different. At the univ we usually do longforms, so we get really used to them, but I won't say they're hard..

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Post by fairytwix » Apr 17th, '08, 12:49

lincorp.com wrote:I understand where you are both coming from with the short form, but in my line of work, its all polite or honorifics so the longer and more concise, the better...In drama and anime, the spoken form is usually extremely casual so if your purely learning to understand it then its not an issue but if you plan to ever work for a japanese company then that wont cut it.
well yes, obviously you have to use a different form of speech whenever your in a workplace...i don't just study the japanese language on its own, im actually studying the society, etc. so, i pretty much know where you're coming from too...

in uni, we are being taught the long forms first..our lets just say the polite way of speaking...then, as we go on, we learn the plain and casual forms of speaking...then in our final year, that's when we do those really polite forms of speaking...im sure you guys know what i mean right??

also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^
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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 17th, '08, 15:14

Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good...

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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 17th, '08, 19:49

torerling wrote:I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
fairytwix wrote:also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^
There's several thousand languages, so it isn't really accurate to make that claim based on a set of knowing less than 10 languages. But there is indeed one obvious language no one's picked up yet that has a similar problem to Japanese: Korean.
lincorp.com wrote:Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good...
In the end, knowing the number of languages is irrelevant compared to the proficiency of a couple of important ones and the application of those languages.

But I digress. Back on topic we go.

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Post by torerling » Apr 20th, '08, 16:29

XiaoPauli wrote:
torerling wrote:I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
fairytwix wrote:also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^
There's several thousand languages, so it isn't really accurate to make that claim based on a set of knowing less than 10 languages. But there is indeed one obvious language no one's picked up yet that has a similar problem to Japanese: Korean.
Come on, get a grip what do you want for one to be able to comment, to know every effing language spoken on earth and every planet in the milky way, would you be satisfied then? The thing is that I know some languages and I know that there are languages that are harder than japanese for different reasons, and if you actually read what I write in my post you'll see that I say I do not know So how can you say that I even make a claim, seriously, read something before you decide to comment on it.
XiaoPauli wrote:
lincorp.com wrote:Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good...
In the end, knowing the number of languages is irrelevant compared to the proficiency of a couple of important ones and the application of those languages.
But I digress. Back on topic we go.
How can you say that the quantity doesn't matter, you know why I like to learn languages? because I think that it is fun, and to get some goodwill if you're in that country, it's a hobby, if you look away from japanese, that I am actually studying at the university.
I know english because I have to use it, and I know others because I had to study them at school, others again I've taken up for fun. Once again you read in on something I've said as a little comparison and blows it up beyond any proportion.

I suggest that you in the future actually at least try to understand the post you are commenting on.. よろしくお願いします。

sorry for being grumpy, but you really stroke my hairs the wrong way...

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Post by UsagiYojimbo » Apr 20th, '08, 17:24

torerling wrote:
XiaoPauli wrote:
fairytwix wrote:what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
I belive all conjugative languages have this "feature". Like Hungarian, for example.
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Post by torerling » Apr 20th, '08, 17:48

UsagiYojimbo wrote:
torerling wrote:
XiaoPauli wrote: That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
I belive all conjugative languages have this "feature". Like Hungarian, for example.
I do not know hungarian, so I can't speak for it, I would really love to learn a finnish/ugrish or slavic language some time, Finnish is in the same family as Hungarian AFAIK and I know that one finnish word can be a whole norwegian sentence, though the person are fixed, and you have to have objects, so therfore it doesn't become as many meanings as a japanese one can get. Hope I managed to get my point across :)

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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 20th, '08, 17:54

torerling wrote:first response
Heh, my post had no ill intent. I was just responding to the claim by a couple of people stating that they knew of no language which was as extreme as Japanese casual form. I responded by saying that Korean has this trait as well. If I could go back and change my post, I would have probably made it shorter, since my original post could easily be taken out of context.
torerling wrote:second response
But in general, quantity really doesn't matter. Learning another language is always a fun endeavor, and it can prove to be quite useful in some fields like business or communications. In the end though, quantity is indeed irrelevant. When I say irrelevant, I did not mean that knowing multiple languages is irrelevant. Being a polyglot is definitely advantageous. But the question that I wished to address was what makes knowing 5+ languages any better than knowing 2 or 3 languages? I strongly believe in people going into language learning to strongly specialize in another language instead of weakly specializing in several languages. Kudos to people who know 5+ languages, but the meaning of my comment was to simply state that knowing 2 or 3 languages really well is just as fine in the general scheme of things.

As I said before, I had no ill will when I made my comments. I simply wished to state some facts and my own beliefs, but I did it in a direct way that made it seem like I was being rude when I never intended to be. It appears that we both took our comments way out of context. Peace and love in this thread. :P We're all for language learning, after all. Speaking of which, it's been awhile since we had anyone post topic-related stuff in the thread.

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Post by torerling » Apr 20th, '08, 18:13

XiaoPauli wrote:
torerling wrote:first response
Heh, my post had no ill intent. I was just responding to the claim by a couple of people stating that they knew of no language which was as extreme as Japanese casual form. I responded by saying that Korean has this trait as well. If I could go back and change my post, I would have probably made it shorter, since my original post could easily be taken out of context.
One of them being me, and you took my quote saying that I said that it were no languages that was that way, when what I said was that I didn't know of any, I've never claimed to be omnipotent, have I?
XiaoPauli wrote:
torerling wrote:second response
But in general, quantity really doesn't matter. Learning another language is always a fun endeavor, and it can prove to be quite useful in some fields like business or communications. In the end though, quantity is indeed irrelevant. When I say irrelevant, I did not mean that knowing multiple languages is irrelevant. Being a polyglot is definitely advantageous. But the question that I wished to address was what makes knowing 5+ languages any better than knowing 2 or 3 languages? I strongly believe in people going into language learning to strongly specialize in another language instead of weakly specializing in several languages. Kudos to people who know 5+ languages, but the meaning of my comment was to simply state that knowing 2 or 3 languages really well is just as fine in the general scheme of things.

As I said before, I had no ill will when I made my comments. I simply wished to state some facts and my own beliefs, but I did it in a direct way that made it seem like I was being rude when I never intended to be. It appears that we both took our comments way out of context. Peace and love in this thread. :P We're all for language learning, after all. Speaking of which, it's been awhile since we had anyone post topic-related stuff in the thread.
Once again you miss the point of my post. I know Norwegian pretty well, as it is my mother language, I know English well enough to communicate quite well, (hopefully you see that) And I am learning Japanese, that's the main ones, and that's the ones I use, and the ones I one day hope to make my bread and butter of. That does absolutely not take away from the convinence for me knowing, german, dutch, danish, sweedish, icelandic and so on well enough to read a newspaper or get on the good side of someone that lives in that country, learning languages for something you will use occationally and for fun, and learning for actually working with it is two really separate things, So yes I will say that the quantity will have something to say, as long as you have a base in 2-3 languages..

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Post by XiaoPauli » Apr 20th, '08, 18:43

I have nothing against you, torerling. I can agree that at this stage of our wonderful exchange, we've really missed the points of our original posts. I made my point concerning the first matter, and still strongly disagree with you with the level of relevance on the second matter, but I'll restrain my arguments since I'd rather continue the spirit of the original thread topic. :)

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Post by torerling » Apr 20th, '08, 18:50

XiaoPauli wrote:I have nothing against you, torerling. I can agree that at this stage of our wonderful exchange, we've really missed the points of our original posts. I made my point concerning the first matter, and still strongly disagree with you with the level of relevance on the second matter, but I'll restrain my arguments since I'd rather continue the spirit of the original thread topic. :)
So you won't even tell me what point I am missing then... Sorry, to tell you, but if you don't live in the states, it may be convinient to know the languages for the places you go, USA isn't the only place on earth.. Once again sorry for being aggressive, but you really stroke me against the hair here, and I do not have anything against you as a person either, what I do not now I can't have anything against, but we can take this over to pm's if you don't want to discuss it here, I'm just curious over what I supposedly have missed..

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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 22nd, '08, 05:16

I think on the second point, he was just trying to tell me that i shouldnt worry about how many languages other people know and in his mind its better to know a few languages really well and not a little of many languages (his opinion)...wasnt quite following the first argument...

either way lets get back to the orignal topic...

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Post by paramaya » Apr 24th, '08, 08:05

"anata ni deatte watashi no mainichi wa kirakira to kagayaitayo".

Lol, just feel bored cuz i saw nobodys posting (been lurking many days, lol).. Anyone knows when/what month they'll hold jlpt this year (i'd like to take level 4)? This is gonna be my first test, i wonder if i could make it just in time (i mean, is few months of studying sufficient to pass the test?). Anyones taking it as well? Ganbarimasho. Lol

sorry for the rants. Btw, quote above is part of a song being my life theme these weeks titled 'renai shashin (romance picture)'. Okii ni suki da.

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Post by Riee109 » Apr 24th, '08, 11:32

torerling wrote:So you won't even tell me what point I am missing then... Sorry, to tell you, but if you don't live in the states, it may be convinient to know the languages for the places you go, USA isn't the only place on earth.. Once again sorry for being aggressive, but you really stroke me against the hair here, and I do not have anything against you as a person either, what I do not now I can't have anything against, but we can take this over to pm's if you don't want to discuss it here, I'm just curious over what I supposedly have missed..
I read your conversation and I can just say that i totally support XiaoPauli's opinion.
And I am not from the USA but from Europe.

Of course it's great to know a lot of language but what is the advance of knowing the basics of several languages but not being really proficient in them.
Wouldn't it be better to be proficient in one language instead of knowing three languages but just their basics?

I've studied French for four years and Spanish for three years but if I now had to choose between my knowledge in those two languages or just in japanese, I would definitely choose my knowledge in Japanese because I'm much more fluent in that language.

By the way, I've heard that finnish is way more difficult than japanese...



paramaya wrote:Anyone knows when/what month they'll hold jlpt this year (i'd like to take level 4)? This is gonna be my first test, i wonder if i could make it just in time (i mean, is few months of studying sufficient to pass the test?). Anyones taking it as well?
In the past years it was held at the first sunday in december. This year that would be december 7th!

Sure that you only want to try level 4? If you already know the basics and keep on studying till december, you even might be able to pass level 3!

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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 24th, '08, 14:30

paramaya wrote:"anata ni deatte watashi no mainichi wa kirakira to kagayaitayo".

Lol, just feel bored cuz i saw nobodys posting (been lurking many days, lol).. Anyone knows when/what month they'll hold jlpt this year (i'd like to take level 4)? This is gonna be my first test, i wonder if i could make it just in time (i mean, is few months of studying sufficient to pass the test?). Anyones taking it as well? Ganbarimasho. Lol

sorry for the rants. Btw, quote above is part of a song being my life theme these weeks titled 'renai shashin (romance picture)'. Okii ni suki da.
Yup it will be held first sunday in December. Online registration through the Japan Foundation website should be available starting early August, so start studying now :thumleft: .

Edit: Just noticed that both of you are outside the United states so you will have to register through the organization that holds the test in your country...

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Post by torerling » Apr 24th, '08, 16:25

Riee109 wrote: I read your conversation and I can just say that i totally support XiaoPauli's opinion.
And I am not from the USA but from Europe.

Of course it's great to know a lot of language but what is the advance of knowing the basics of several languages but not being really proficient in them.
Wouldn't it be better to be proficient in one language instead of knowing three languages but just their basics?

I've studied French for four years and Spanish for three years but if I now had to choose between my knowledge in those two languages or just in japanese, I would definitely choose my knowledge in Japanese because I'm much more fluent in that language.

By the way, I've heard that finnish is way more difficult than japanese...
If you had read a bit more close you'd see that I feel confident in 2 or 3 languages, my point as you and pauli don't get is that after knowing these, and concentrating on them, it is nice to know the basics of a couple of other ones, it makes it easier to learn others too. to use your own little point it is better to know three languages good and know the basics of 4-5 more than knowing 2 languages and that is that.. And I have never said that japanese is harder than other languages...

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Post by paramaya » Apr 24th, '08, 16:31

@Riee109: i didn't know if i could just skip one level and jump to higher levels. well, i'll give it try then, and btw to take jlpt level 3 means i must recognize at least 300 kanjis and have min. 1500 words memorized, right? great, feel more excited, it's just challenging, college stuffs and japanese class. thanks for the info.

@lincorp.com: yup, i know where to contact. i've been searching them recently.

thank you guys for supporting. i'll keep studying next few months and look forward to its registration day. Mata

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Post by paramaya » Apr 24th, '08, 17:05

Torerling, i know your point. I read whole conversation between you two. Sure it's nice to know/be able to speak many languages, you can get even closer to them 'around' you. Just in my case, i have grandpas speaking different languages, uncles and aunties from different cultures and languages. Although we could just speak one national language (bahasa indonesia: this makes us bilingual naturally), but it's just really nice talking to your old grandma/pa in languages they speak. (in case you don't know, we have not only many dialects but also many different languages originating from different cultures).
maybe ones disagree with me saying those couldn't be FOREIGN languages, but i'll tell you, i can't speak language my grandpa speaks in (that's sure regretable, but i'm still trying sometimes). just the same effort with me dealing with french, deutch, and japanese.

PEACE.
Last edited by paramaya on Apr 24th, '08, 17:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Riee109 » Apr 24th, '08, 17:38

torerling wrote: If you had read a bit more close you'd see that I feel confident in 2 or 3 languages, my point as you and pauli don't get is that after knowing these, and concentrating on them, it is nice to know the basics of a couple of other ones, it makes it easier to learn others too. to use your own little point it is better to know three languages good and know the basics of 4-5 more than knowing 2 languages and that is that.. And I have never said that japanese is harder than other languages...
And I just said that I've heard that finnish sounds really hard.
That wasn't an accusation at all!
Furthermore I know that you only said that you don't know any language " that's as extreme as japanese.. "

I've actually read all your replies really closely and you said "[...]And I am learning Japanese, that's the main ones, and that's the ones I use, and the ones I one day hope to make my bread and butter of. "
If you really want to do a job, where high language skills in japanese are necessary, then I think you should rather focus on studying japanese instead of the basics of serveral other languages. I really have no doubt that you already might have excellent skills in this language but you can always improve. Especially because the japanese language has so many difficult and specific words...
Well, if you are already able to read the keizai part of a japanese newspaper without looking up a single word, than this of course doesn't count for you.


There is not doubt that being fluent in 3 languages an knowing the basics of 4-5 more is better than knowing 2 languages.
But what if you had the choice between being fluent in 4 languages or being fluent in 2 languages and knowing the basics of 6 other languages?

paramaya wrote:i didn't know if i could just skip one level and jump to higher levels. well, i'll give it try then, and btw to take jlpt level 3 means i must recognize at least 300 kanjis and have min. 1500 words memorized, right? great, feel more excited, it's just challenging, college stuffs and japanese class. thanks for the info.
The first JLPT I ever took was Level 2, so of course you can skip levels.
The test is multiple choice and to pass it you only need a score of at least 60% (except for Level 1), so it is not that hard at all.
Just try! You've got nothing to loose (just the fee ;) )!

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Post by lincorp.com » Apr 24th, '08, 21:03

Here is a link to some practice tests from previous years. You can use this as a tool to judge which level you should take. Also there is a big jump from level 3 and level 2 so make sure youre ready. Based on the feedback we receive after administering the test every year, most test takers (in the US) complain about the big jump in difficulty. Just an FYI.

http://www.jflalc.org/index.php?act=tpt&id=21

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