Most Japanophiles haven't visited Japan yet

Talk about the culture and entertainment from Nihon.
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Kanin
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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 01:23

jellybean wrote: Maybe what I'm saying...that Japanophiles are in love with something ingenuine...you didn't answer my question about where you found your passion for Japan from - was it from Jdrama?
As I said, Japanophiles are your mind-ghost. How can anime, cars, movies, electronics be ingenuine?

My interest for Japan was intrigued way before I disovered JDrama.

It started when I read the book about Akio Morita. I have the highest respect for Japan to turn into the second biggest country in the world economy wise. And that from virtual scratch.
Last edited by Kanin on Dec 29th, '06, 01:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 01:28

Néa Vanille wrote: I'm going to start taking Chinese classes when I return, though. Maybe Japanese, too.

@Kanin: No, I'm not Korean. Does my avatar look so Korean? :lol No, I'm just German-Italian. And the band my friend loves so much is Kent.
So you live in Germany, that's one of two. Oh well didn't know it was actually you. :lol

Um Kent. :roll

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Post by eye » Dec 29th, '06, 01:29

Néa Vanille wrote:I do, however, think there are Japanophiles (probably mostly male, but there are females as well) who live with their heads in the clouds with their racist opinions on Japanese people - that they are not the majority, I know. They exist, though, and those that do are a rightful object of ridicule. I guess we'll all agree there.
I don't.

You are drawing conclusions from a single incident. And you put the blame on the male part only. What about the Japanese wife? What did she expect to find in a European husband? We know for a fact that Japan's society is still more patriarchal and conservative than Germany's. Maybe she had her head in the clouds, too?

Don't get me wrong here. I'm just unwilling to put any failed inter-racial marriage into the stupid geisha fantasy drawer. Both Germany and Japan have high divorce rates anyway.
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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 29th, '06, 01:30

jellybean wrote: OK now on to your point about me being worse than those I am 'berating'. I was intrigued by Japanese culture BEFORE I went to Japan but that was due to documentaries that came on tv and the amazing films I had watched ever since I was little. That was what influenced my decision to go to Japan - which I finally did this previous November. I didn't claim to LOVE anything or know anything - hence the reason why I made that thread in the Travel section. So I still don't understand your point considering I do not claim to know everything about Japan in the first place....


Sorry, but that sounds exactly like a typical japanophile. Maybe it's not an anime otaku, but still a japanophile.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. No point in turning this into an argument.

But just a question, how did I contribute? I remember writing that going to japan is a waste of money if it's for a short time and don't have a set stream of income coming in, but I don't remember writing much else. What did I write?

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Post by anoney » Dec 29th, '06, 01:35

You don't have to have been to Japan to have an interest in it. I've never been to space, yet many millions across the globe have varying degrees of fascination with that big black canvas full of stars.

Because Japan is still a fairly uniqueweird/cool/mystical country to westerners, very few have been there and usually those westerners who become interested in Japanese culture do so due to some exposure to the culture (anime/TV shows/people). I myself became interested in Japan due to anime, which waned after a few years as I slowly began expanding my knowledge of Japan to different aspects of its culture. I then took the big leap to study it formally at University (which I'm doing now), but I've still never been to Japan. Sure, I'll happily admit that I was head over heels in love with "everything Japanese" for a small period in my life and frankly, who wouldn't be? For a London-born Brit who has never been overseas, a place like Japan can be very alluring.

For a while, I thought I was turning into a Japanophile. By this I mean I could see myself turning into a Japanese apologist, somehow feeling it was my place to bring Japanese culture to the uneducated while defending it to the least breath against anyone who dared criticise it. However, I found that the more I learnt about Japan, it's culture, history, society, people, language, the more I realised that it's a country just like any other in the world with its own share of problems. I put myself in a position so I could meet as many Japanese people (as humanly possible in a place like London) so that I could see how the Japanese culture I had learnt from books/dramas/movies (even anime, to an extent) actually worked in real life with real people. I found that some of my expectations were perfectly realised, while others were smashed into pieces. I saw the bad side of Japanese people and the good side, the parts of the culture they love to export to the rest of the world and the parts of the culture they will try to keep a lid on. While I was going through this phase of learning about the "real" Japan (as well as I could without actually going there) I realised above all that once you get over the honeymoon period of being a Japanophile and take your interest in Japan seriously, you find that Japan and it's people is a country like any other, with it's own fair share of problems.

When you get to that stage where you can happily take off the rose-tinted glasses and be content with what you see/experience, then I guess that's the point at which you can consider yourself past being a "Japanophile". I can now laugh at some of the stereotypes that people formulate in their head from watching anime/dramas/movies, etc. This is exactly the same as many people in the Far/Middle East watching a show like Friends or The Simpsons and formulating stereotypes about Americans based on what they see (from personal experience, this is a very realistic scenario). This is where the problem lays, what is so wrong with falling in love with the way a country presents itself through its media? For many, they will never be able to live in or even visit the country they've taken to heart, so who are we to begrudge them a bit of happiness? Whether it's ordering plush toys of sailor moon from Japan or ignorantly living your life thinking that Homer Simpson is the average American 30-something male, it gives people something to enjoy and they live out their lives blissfully ignorant.

And.. I'm not really sure of what else I want to say. I just think that this elitist attitude some are taking by claiming it's not possible to be fascinated with or love something without having experienced it is a load of bollocks.
Last edited by anoney on Dec 29th, '06, 01:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 01:39

kotaeshiranaihito wrote:
jellybean wrote: OK now on to your point about me being worse than those I am 'berating'. I was intrigued by Japanese culture BEFORE I went to Japan but that was due to documentaries that came on tv and the amazing films I had watched ever since I was little. That was what influenced my decision to go to Japan - which I finally did this previous November. I didn't claim to LOVE anything or know anything - hence the reason why I made that thread in the Travel section. So I still don't understand your point considering I do not claim to know everything about Japan in the first place....


Sorry, but that sounds exactly like a typical japanophile. Maybe it's not an anime otaku, but still a japanophile.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. No point in turning this into an argument.

But just a question, how did I contribute? I remember writing that going to japan is a waste of money if it's for a short time and don't have a set stream of income coming in, but I don't remember writing much else. What did I write?
LOL so I'm a 'Japanophile' now. If its not's one thing - it's the other with you! The latter which you claim to have contributed has never surfaced in my Travel thread. You did contribute about hitting up Shibuya. Then you proceeded on asking what the age ranges there were...

Off topic/ Nea Vanille - could I PM or could you leave a message in my Vienna/Rome thread if you've spent time in either or regarding learning Italian or know anything about Austria in an off-beat chance considering Germany is pretty close by and as an extra tell me more about Hamburg in Germany - if you know anything about that place. Sorry if I'm being a bit specific here!

edit-anoney - I enjoyed reading your post about your personal interest and I agree with everything you said but you took the effort to meet Japanese people and clarified for yourself where the myths and illusions lay.
Last edited by jellybean on Dec 29th, '06, 01:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Kanin
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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 01:45

Thanks for you post.

If that is what people think about 'Japanophiles', that they don't consider Japan as a country with problems like any other, I can believe everyones concern. But rest assured, no one has that naive stance towards anything. If that was true, these JPH should be ridiculed for far more than just loving Japan. :lol

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 01:46

Sure, jelly, I'll post in your thread.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 29th, '06, 01:53

jellybean wrote:
LOL so I'm a 'Japanophile' now. If its not's one thing - it's the other with you! The latter which you claim to have contributed has never surfaced in my Travel thread. You did contribute about hitting up Shibuya. Then you proceeded on asking what the age ranges there were...
hmmm, imho yeah pretty much.

I remember I did say that, but that was after you came back. I think I wrote the other thing before you went there in a different thread.

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Post by anoney » Dec 29th, '06, 02:03

Believe it or not, you CAN love something to such an extent that it's problems/bad points are not visible. I think you can apply this to those "Japanophiles" or "otakus" who are so apologetic and defensive about Japan that they can't accept something bad or objective being said about it.

However, I truly believe (after much personal experience) that this these people are in the small minority. Many of the anime "otaku" or "Japanophiles" I have known (and still do) are only expressing their love for Japan, sometimes in what seems like an over-the-top or obsessive way to the rest of us. They don't apologise on behalf of Japan, nor do they feel the need to ram it down people's throats. They are content to wallow in their own interests, mixing with other like-minded individuals, and generally not doing much harm except creating a "bad" image for people who have a more objective interest in Japan. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's more the fault of people who tar everyone with the same brush by thinking "otaku" or "Japanophiles" are representative of all people who have interests in Japan when clearly this is not the case.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 02:12

anoney wrote:Believe it or not, you CAN love something to such an extent that it's problems/bad points are not visible. I think you can apply this to those "Japanophiles" or "otakus" who are so apologetic and defensive about Japan that they can't accept something bad or objective being said about it.
Yes I guess you can find it in the early stages of boyfriend-girlfriend. :lol

Seriously, why I'm arguing against people that uses Japanophile to downgrade people (like, I at least visited Japan etc..) is because I have never met a person with an attitude of what you mention. That's why I say it's a myth or mind-ghost. If you say you know such friends I must believe you, but I would assume it's more an act than out of logic behaviour. Anyway I agree with your posts.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 02:17

anoney wrote:Believe it or not, you CAN love something to such an extent that it's problems/bad points are not visible. I think you can apply this to those "Japanophiles" or "otakus" who are so apologetic and defensive about Japan that they can't accept something bad or objective being said about it.
I agree. It's actually not such an uncommon phenomenon among young people - even if you hang out a lot on actors' or singers' forums, you will notice that there are quite a few fangirls who worship them so blindly that they simply will not accept any negative opinions about the idols they love so much. To them, they are perfect and will try to justify even the most unattractive trait about their object of desire.

Thankfully, it's more a trait of really young and naive people and the vast majority of people outgrow this stage rather quickly.

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Post by getsuga » Dec 29th, '06, 02:47

Néa Vanille wrote: Nothing wrong with liking Japanese girls, nothing wrong with liking them more than any other, even, but keep it real. They're just people. Some dorky teenaged Japanophiles don't seem to know that.
.
Yes, that's absolutely right. You know, when I first arrived in Sydney, I came across a group of Japanese high school students, probably on their study tour or whatever. I thought to myself,"Woaw, it's Japanese, gotta see the chicks! They must be as hot as in the anime!" However, reality is indeed cruel, those Japanese girls I saw was not really extraordinary, most of them were just ordinary girls who I can find even in my home country, Indonesia. Seriously, most of them were just pretty standard, although, a few of them were really beautiful, perhaps they'll become as beautiful as Maki Horikita in the future :wub: :wub:

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Post by 8thSin » Dec 29th, '06, 03:03

6 pages o_O;;
and hey Kanin, first time seeing you here :lol
Néa Vanille wrote: I agree. It's actually not such an uncommon phenomenon among young people - even if you hang out a lot on actors' or singers' forums, you will notice that there are quite a few fangirls who worship them so blindly that they simply will not accept any negative opinions about the idols they love so much. To them, they are perfect and will try to justify even the most unattractive trait about their object of desire.
Ahahaha, those Ayu, Momusu, Johnny's fans!! XD
I call myself Ayu fan too... But I hate around 30% of her songs and growing :whistling:

There are a lot of people who's absolutely addicted to Japanese media and culture, but I don't think most of them are blind supporters of Japan. It's only natural if you get more interested in something as you learn more about it.



By the way, I do like Japanese girls. I'm not into them because they are 'exotic' or whatever, but I just find them to be generally cuter than other races. (I'm not saying ALL Japanese girls are hot, I've seen plenty of ugly JPN girls) Maybe because I'm influenced by all the Japanese TV, but that's really what I think.

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Post by Alveric » Dec 29th, '06, 04:03

I was in Japan last September and when I came back I attended an Anime Convention organized by a friend. I had never been to one, but I expected to find people who were interested in Japanese Culture since I thought they were into anime already, and even though its Japanese POP Culture which is never the same as TRADITIONAL CULTURE, I said WHAT THE HECK.. and decided to give it a shot.....


COMPLETE DISAPPOINTMENT.

Yes, you can say they dont harm anyone and YES, everyone has the right to live in their own worlds of illusion, and NO, I DONT think I would feel bad being called a Japanophile because of these people..... BUT... It is just sad to watch. I seriously dont understand what the obsession is....

I personally began this NIHON hobby because of the Japanese language (I'm still studying kanji for my final test next year :crazy: ), I like learning new languages and meeting people of different countries A LOT, and I must say it has been worth it every step of the way, the GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. All of it. Not just these preconceived ideas we tend to have....

Japanophile comes from Japan and Filia which means friendship in Greek right? As for friendship, I think we're all Wherever-on-earth-philes unless you want to start a war with somebody.

My advice: GET THE WHOLE MYSTIC, BIZARRE, WEIRD OUTLOOK you otakus have on Japan and its people and you'll enjoy it much more than you ever imagined, because if you continue to be obsessed with that 1% of Japan you'll miss out on the other REAL AND COOL 99%.

And yes, Japanese girls are HOT, and so are the Chinese and the Korean and the Italian and the Latinas and the Americans and the African and the Australian girls... It's NOT THE COUNTRY OR THE NATIONALITY OR THE CULTURE... IT'S THE WOMAN!!!!
Q: Is Religion within Love or Love within Religion?
A: LOVE IS THE ONLY RELIGION.

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Post by getsuga » Dec 29th, '06, 04:09

Alveric wrote: And yes, Japanese girls are HOT, and so are the Chinese and the Korean and the Italian and the Latinas and the Americans and the African and the Australian girls... It's NOT THE COUNTRY OR THE NATIONALITY OR THE CULTURE... IT'S THE WOMAN!!!!
I would disagree a little regarding culture. If you have watched Ai Yori Aoshi, probably you would understand why.

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Post by Aulcard » Dec 29th, '06, 05:56

Wow. I cant believe this thread has grown by 5 pages since yesterday!

I can certainly understand many of the things that have been said, like from the realist point of view of 'how does it affect you' or the moralist point of view 'everyone has the freedom to choose their interests'. Despite that those arguments sound convincing, it does nothing to lessen my disgust when face to face with the wierder side that otakudom has to offer.

Like when hearing from a female that no guy is as hot as *random anime character* or how she would like to see that anime character have gay sex with *another random anime character*. If you see a nice car driving down the road, no, it is not as good as *random car from initial D*. Infact incapable of holding a conversation that isnt about anime. Or guys who think white women are gross and only Japanese women are attractive, especially maids. Or people male or female who wont even try things that arent Japanese because and only because it isnt Japanese. Everything Japanese is great, they say, even if they know nothing about it. I assure you that people like this exist to whom it is impossible to say anything bad about Japan; to them, ugly or even just normal women dont exist, japanese women are all pure and docile, every piece of Japanese music or television ever created is a masterpiece and all other nations are complete garbage.

Now I probably sound like a total social bigot saying all that, but I am not trying to get any point or agenda across in this post other than the following: If you like Japan, thats fine. I like Japan too. If you really, really like Japan, hey whatever does it for you. But if you are going to be an otaku, please, PLEASE dont turn into the type of people above who think that good things only exist in Japan. There are enough people like that already. I know, because I do have to deal with them on a face to face basis. Please just be cool, fairly evaluating things based on their merits and not superficial labels like 'japanese'. If you think the majority of things about Japan have merit and are worthy of being liked, then be my guest, because I will respect you for that. If you think Anime is the be all and end all, the very best that life has to offer, well... I pity you. Though there is probably noone here like that. Why do I have to be that kind of otaku magnet? :( I dont even watch Anime... (despite my username)

End rant. Bit late I guess, but you know, I was asleep for most of this thread :P

Oh and.. Kotae and Nea... please, you guys need to learn to relax. Somehow I often see long arguments that involve you two on these forums... stress is bad..

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Post by getsuga » Dec 29th, '06, 10:47

Alucard wrote:Wow. I cant believe this thread has grown by 5 pages since yesterday!
We probably should put this thread on a d-addicts record as the fastest growing thread ;p , if there is any d-addicts record.
Alucard wrote: But if you are going to be an otaku, please, PLEASE dont turn into the type of people above who think that good things only exist in Japan. .

Wow~ I am very close to being that type of person. :whistling: According to myself, Japan provides the most entertaining form of entertainments, that is, Japanese drama. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Post by aNToK » Dec 29th, '06, 11:40

Hmm... I go out to work on the car for a few hours and it's now 5 pages later. Nothing like a little scintillating bout of conflicting opinions to keep a thread hopping...

Seems that a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon on both (multiple? I lost count...) sides and 90% of the problems seem to boil down to simple prejudice. Not so much the racist type, but rather the truer " to prejudge" definition. People coming to Japan (or any other country or neighborhood for that matter) with these silly visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads (Christmas reference, sue me) about how any particular person is is just plain ludicrous. Is everyone really looking for some "typical stereotype" girl or guy really?

People are people, for God's sake. Every one is as individual as the next (that sounded a bit contradictory, but work with me here...). I'd bet the vast majority of failed relationships between cultures, at least as outlined here, come from 2 things: unrealistic expectations of how a person is based at least in part on on or both partners' preconceived notions, and second, on people not being true to their own nature and modifying their behavior to fit the expectations of their would-be partner.

I like how Chris Rock said it: "When you meet someone for the first time, do you really think you're meeting the real person? Hell no!!! You're meeting that person's representative!!!!"

Too often, people try to change their behavior and present themselves as something they're not in order to attract a partner. That road only leads to unhappiness and shattered dreams. If you're a nerd, otaku, or whatever the buzzword of the day is, then don't act like you're some sort of macho caveman or something. Don't hide the fact that you think whatever anime princess of the day is hot, or that you like collecting 50,000 vids and action figures of your favorite characters or whatever. When it comes up, just be honest for Christssake. "This is who I am, this is what I like, and if that's cool with you, let's go from there. If it's not, oh well, that's who I am and what I like so I guess it's time to keep on looking"

Whoever you are, and whatever you're into, be yourself and be proud of who you are! All that posturing and role-playing will just end up with resentment and broken relationships when the real you finally pokes it's head out.
Besides, what's inherently wrong with being a nerd or whatever anyway? Would you be happy with someone who falls for whatever image you choose to hold up, even if it's far from the true you? It'll come out eventually.

Anyone who thinks they know someone just by the way they look, their background, or a few of their interests is a complete idiot. Anyone who tries to change their whole image just to fit someone else's idea of who they should be is an even bigger one. And a bit of a coward besides. Hell, if you can't even stand up and be proud of who you are, who the hell are you to think you deserve the love of whatever ideal little creature you set your eyes upon anyway?

Ah, a somewhat pointless and probably somewhat off-topic ramble before going to bed.

Sorry, 5 beers into a new WinXP install at 3 in the morning has me bored out of my skull.....
I am not obsessed. I am just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very focussed...

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Post by groink » Dec 29th, '06, 11:45

aNToK wrote:I like how Chris Rock said it: "When you meet someone for the first time, do you really think you're meeting the real person? Hell no!!! You're meeting that person's representative!!!!"
You're scaring me, dude... You're really scaring me! I quote Chris Rock on a daily basis - more than my baseball friend quoting Yogi Berra.

--- groink

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Post by aNToK » Dec 29th, '06, 12:33

Still waiting for the right moment to drop the "Who tells bigger lies, men or women?" quote....:P
I am not obsessed. I am just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very focussed...

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 12:39

8thSin wrote: 6 pages o_O;;
and hey Kanin, first time seeing you here :lol
Oh hi, if it wasn't for you avatar I wouldn't have recognized you. :lol

Yea I don't post much here, actually I didn't know there was these discussions around here. I didn't want to post in this thread but I guess I was drawn into it. :lol

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Post by getsuga » Dec 29th, '06, 12:41

What you are saying is all true anToK. However, I think we need to at least have a bare minimum of politeness. You know, to be at least, civil.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 14:17

Aulcard - hahah your posts are funny regarding the people you've met!

I don't have any prejudice against otaku funnily enough or anyone that has an avid interest in something - I'm just confused however regarding Japan specifically - how someone can claim to love so much about the country without having been ~ that opinion still stands. Perhaps that is stigmatised by the anime/Jpop freaks.

Some people thought I meant that in a superior manner and replied defensively when really I was questioning rather than trying to make anyone look bad.

OH by the way:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... apanophile

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Post by Keymaker » Dec 29th, '06, 14:53

I don't know which is funnier, Americans' perception of Japan or Japan's perception of France:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6197921.stm

Hehe.

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Post by 8thSin » Dec 29th, '06, 14:53

Kanin wrote: Yea I don't post much here, actually I didn't know there was these discussions around here. I didn't want to post in this thread but I guess I was drawn into it. :lol
Hehe, a few pop up once every while :roll
urbandictionary.com wrote: 1. Japanophile 148 up, 24 down


One who is terribly obssessed with Japan, and anything Japanese. He/she may even get sexual stimulation from anything remotely related to Japan, or japanese culture.

Ian is a Japanophile
by Ian (I know, I'm sorry about the typo I made) Mar 31, 2003 email it
... :O

The author of this definition gets sexual stimulation from anything related to Japan?

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 15:09

jellybean wrote:Aulcard - hahah your posts are funny regarding the people you've met!

I don't have any prejudice against otaku funnily enough or anyone that has an avid interest in something - I'm just confused however regarding Japan specifically - how someone can claim to love so much about the country without having been ~ that opinion still stands. Perhaps that is stigmatised by the anime/Jpop freaks.

Some people thought I meant that in a superior manner and replied defensively when really I was questioning rather than trying to make anyone look bad.

OH by the way:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... apanophile
You shouldn't be confused at all. I think your own reaction to being called Japanophile speaks for itself. Afterall didn't yourself just visit Japan because you were interested in it, and that prior to even being there. What sparks the most damage is how anyone can seriously claim to be more valid more serious or more socially accepted in their interest compared to another. For a fact there can be persons who have larger knowledge about Japan living in other countries than you'll ever get, and they have never been to Japan either. Average religious people love their gods to the extreme yet there isn't a single person to have ever seen her/him/it. There you have some serious -philia.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 29th, '06, 15:22

damn Kanin beat me to it.

Yeah, he's right. I'm not trying to be rude or hostile, but your answer is simply this: "the same way you were interested enough go actually go there". I mean it definitely must take A LOT of interest to spend a good deal of money to go to a place for only a few days (even if it's 1000 or 2000 it's still a lot for someone who has no set stream of income).

This answer should not seem hostile if your question is not meant to be hostile. If it was, well then I could see you taking offense.

And for the record, don't take the definitions in the Urban dictionary seriously. They are just for laughs. Japanophiles do not always have a sexual fixation about Japan, they are just obsessed with the country for one reason or another.

Also if you want a good laugh look up "poon tang", "japanese girl", "white guy", "chinese girl", "chinese guy". Just don't take any of the definitions seriously.

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Post by mizune » Dec 29th, '06, 15:28

If you want an accurate definition of what anything is, urban dictionary is the last place to look... :fear:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanophile
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Japanophile

People will always be in love with something until they find reason otherwise. It's partly an education thing. Whether or not they have been to Japan or not is something more or less unrelated to the strength of their interest -- a lot of it is economic.

For the record, anybody posting in this forum can probably be considered some sort of drama otaku or Japanophile, so I don't think anybody can claim any sort of moral high ground here... :lol
But yeah, how you interact with society in general would be the true test... :fear:

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Post by Keymaker » Dec 29th, '06, 15:41

mizune wrote:If you want an accurate definition of what anything is, urban dictionary is the last place to look... :fear:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanophile
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Japanophile
Haha, interesting links. It's definitely true about the Japanophile population in Taiwan. Walking around the streets of Taipei, there is such an obsession of the culture amongst the youth that I forget which country I'm in sometimes.
mizune wrote:For the record, anybody posting in this forum can probably be considered some sort of drama otaku or Japanophile, so I don't think anybody can claim any sort of moral high ground here... :lol:
Heh, I myself don't really have any interest in Japan (anyone else like me here in this thread?). I actually came across this thread from the "Last 10 Active Posts" on the front page because the thread title amused me.

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Post by mizune » Dec 29th, '06, 16:05

Keymaker wrote: Haha, interesting links. It's definitely true about the Japanophile population in Taiwan. Walking around the streets of Taipei, there is such an obsession of the culture amongst the youth that I forget which country I'm in sometimes.
I'm Taiwanese, so yeah, I can honestly say, "It's not just me/it's not my fault!" :fear:
I think it's more of an unconscious national predisposition borne from the Japanese occupational influence prior to WWII or something. I definitely got it from my parents... :fear:

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Post by ninjavsself » Dec 29th, '06, 16:38

Heh. I think my interest in Japan came when I started taking Japanese the first year of high school. Before I took this class, I had no idea what anime was and what doramas were. I just knew that the language was interesting and it seemed worthwhile to have a basic understanding of it. My interest in anime/dorama started later after I got more in-depth in to the japanese culture thanks to the japanese class.

There's something I would like to mention though. Just because something comes from Japan, it does not make it good. One only need to look at the endlessly manufactured pop stars that are brought out daily to see this. I usually find myself digging deeper than idols to find the japanese music that I truly enjoy. Bands such as Koenji Hyakkei, cruyff in the bedroom, boredoms and boris, at least to me, are the real finds of japanese music. But these bands do not have to be japanese for me to like them which I think is the main point I'm trying to make here.... I think. :unsure:

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 16:51

Btw just for the record - I forgot to add how funny that link was - of course that definition is totally overblown and exagerrated. I just thought it was amusing.
You shouldn't be confused at all. I think your own reaction to being called Japanophile speaks for itself.
- what reaction was that?
Afterall didn't yourself just visit Japan because you were interested in it, and that prior to even being there.
- yes there you stand corrected - I was interested in it. I did NOT however claim to know anything more about Japanese culture - hence the travel thread - MAN HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT hahaaha jeez louise.

NOW KANIN I WILL SAY THIS ONCE AGAIN: You said that you loved Japanese women, found Japanese kids extremely cute, loved office design, the high techness etc etc etc - those are pretty specific things - I'm just wondering WONDERING how you can spark such an interest without seeing it first hand for yourself. You didn't really answer my question and if you did it was very hostile so I didn't gather anything from it.
What sparks the most damage is how anyone can seriously claim to be more valid more serious or more socially accepted in their interest compared to another.
- I AM NOT CLAIMING TO BE MORE SERIOUS OR SOCIALLY ACCEPTED BECAUSE I MYSELF AM NOT A JAPAN EXPERT AND THEREFORE AM NOT REFERRING TO MYSELF. I could understand if I was saying how I loved Japan and getting on my high horse because I've visited the country that you would respond this way - but that is not the case and not the point I'm trying to make. Why do you think I want to take Japanese studies for my university course? So I can learn the language and culture more indepthly - the anime/guys aspect is how another member put it, 1% of their culture and takes little priority in my own interest.
For a fact there can be persons who have larger knowledge about Japan living in other countries than you'll ever get, and they have never been to Japan either.
- I'm not even challenging that idea...again bringing in these strange analogies.
I mean it definitely must take A LOT of interest to spend a good deal of money to go to a place for only a few days (even if it's 1000 or 2000 it's still a lot for someone who has no set stream of income).
- why do YOU care so much about my financial situation??!?!? LOL you've referenced it SO MANY TIMES - honestly is it any of your business? Do you know my life? "set stream of income" - who are you!!??!?!

To Kanin:I even apologised for appearing hostile when that wasn't my intention yet you keep replying to me as if I'm berating you - how about answering without using analogies and say using yourself as an example?

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 17:04

ninjavsself wrote:Heh. I think my interest in Japan came when I started taking Japanese the first year of high school. Before I took this class, I had no idea what anime was and what doramas were. I just knew that the language was interesting and it seemed worthwhile to have a basic understanding of it. My interest in anime/dorama started later after I got more in-depth in to the japanese culture thanks to the japanese class.

There's something I would like to mention though. Just because something comes from Japan, it does not make it good. One only need to look at the endlessly manufactured pop stars that are brought out daily to see this. I usually find myself digging deeper than idols to find the japanese music that I truly enjoy. Bands such as Koenji Hyakkei, cruyff in the bedroom, boredoms and boris, at least to me, are the real finds of japanese music. But these bands do not have to be japanese for me to like them which I think is the main point I'm trying to make here.... I think. :unsure:
Wow - what sort of genre are those bands? Then again I'm not hugely into Jpop myself..
There's something I would like to mention though. Just because something comes from Japan, it does not make it good.
hmm yes that's the impression I get from some people...

Just for the record to kota and kanin who think I am a Japanophile: if watching Hayao Miyazaki films and catching a documentary on Tokyo about 5 years ago count as Japanophilism then add Americanophhilism and Frenchilism :w00t:

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Post by bakan3ko » Dec 29th, '06, 17:10

Long thread...

Can we all just admit we are Japanophiles/Koreanophiles and be done with it...? By Wiki's definition, the definition of the masses, we are JDorama or KDrama fans, which makes us essentially Japanophiles and/or Koreanophiles.

Except me of course. :glare:

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 17:13

jellybean wrote: what reaction was that?
Your reaction was like, moi? :lol

jellybean wrote: NOW KANIN I WILL SAY THIS ONCE AGAIN: You said that you loved Japanese women, found Japanese kids extremely cute, loved office design, the high techness etc etc etc - those are pretty specific things - I'm just wondering WONDERING how you can spark such an interest without seeing it first hand for yourself. You didn't really answer my question and if you did it was very hostile so I didn't gather anything from it.
No, this is what I said:

"I love JDramas and I find Japanese women very attractive in every aspect from clothes to behaviour and speech. I find Japanese children extremely cute. I like Japanese architecture and Japanese high-tech and Japanese eye for beautiful whether it's people, nature, garden, offices, kitchens or designs in general. I love JPop and I like the Japanese language."

Now exactly where do you find the urge to question this statement?

As I see it there are no real tendencies to pretend that Japan holds a flawless appearance, which is your favourite issue to bring up.

jellybean wrote: I could understand if I was saying how I loved Japan and getting on my high horse because I've visited the country that you would respond this way - but that is not the case and not the point I'm trying to make.
What does this sound to you?

"I enjoyed reading your post about your personal interest and I agree with everything you said but you took the effort to meet Japanese people and clarified for yourself where the myths and illusions lay."

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 17:26

OK Kanin, I'm really lost. Btw regarding the last quote - that person had taken effort to meet Japanese people in London (he hasn't been to Japan), I agreed with everything he said. So I'm not that hoity toity about visiting the country.

Could you quote my reaction about being a Japanophile?

Bleh this is going to turn into a quote argument - yada yada yada. Just read what Aulcard was talking about - that's where I'm coming from.

You've admitted that you're a Japanophile and that you've never been - OK refer to OP. I'll leave it at that.

Anyhoos, reading everyone's replies so far - interesting stuff..

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 17:33

No I didn't admit I was a Japanophile, I am against the very term you seem to love, if you think that, then you haven't understood a thing. I humbly went in to this thread with a post acting like it trying to defend them.


And about your money. He isn't wrong. If we should go by your way of behaviour, then you should also put up rules of when it's financially in your favor to actually go ahead and pay that trip. It would have to be at a time when you're absolutely sure it's an interest that will hold on, and not some trend of yours.


If this means, LOL, thank you, then I appologize.

"LOL so I'm a 'Japanophile' now."

jellybean wrote:OK Kanin, I'm really lost. Btw regarding the last quote - that person had taken effort to meet Japanese people in London (he hasn't been to Japan), I agreed with everything he said. So I'm not that hoity toity about visiting the country.
Ok I misunderstood that part then. But either way, you are acknowledging that factor as if he really had to put it down in his post to defend himself from being a total je%k. I'm sorry that's how I read it, based on previous debate. In fact you will see most posts including stories, that are used to shadow the smallest suspicion to being a Japanophile. As it would be looked down upon otherwise, and your attitude is not helping it. I just find it wrong.
Last edited by Kanin on Dec 29th, '06, 20:02, edited 3 times in total.

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what can I say?

Post by mun78 » Dec 29th, '06, 17:39

For me, these anime, J-rock, and Jdrama were channels that started getting me interested in the country , especially Jdramas, because they are live action, but other than all that stuff , I really like the way the country is. They have their problems, like all other countries, but their people seem openly polite. I'm not sure of this, that's why one day I want to go to the country. To call me a japanophile, well I don't know, because the entertainment aspect is not the only thing that's interesting. I really like their architecture and the way they build their streets. The language sounds interesting because they sometimes borrow from english and other languages. One thing that I don't like about Japan is it's J-pop and the way in which they treat their people in the hierarchy, buddhist type society. Their education system also pisses me off lol.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 17:49

Kanin wrote: No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though. .
:blink meh you're confusing.

Where did you get the impression that I found Japanophiles to be jerks...??? What's my attitude please enlighten me. Where did I state that I disliked Japanophile or clearly stated that I think I am better than anyone else. Please - I did not accuse you of anything, I asked you questions. You however are assuming my attitudes - have you read some of the other replies by the way?

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 17:53

jellybean wrote:
Kanin wrote: No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though. .
:blink meh you're confusing.
More of a joke using that term. I don't see how you can question my intentions. I don't get sexually aroused by Japan istelf either.

lol you're editing while I'm editing, this is more a chatt now. :lol

I'm sorry for using the word jerk. But I read a few degrading descriptions concerning JPH, that I took the liberty to use the word Jerk, I actually thought it was much less offending.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 18:16

Kanin wrote:
jellybean wrote:
Kanin wrote: No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though. .
:blink meh you're confusing.
More of a joke using that term. I don't see how you can question my intentions. I don't get sexually aroused by Japan istelf either.

lol you're editing while I'm editing, this is more a chatt now. :lol

I'm sorry for using the word jerk. But I read a few degrading descriptions concerning JPH, that I took the liberty to use the word Jerk, I actually thought it was much less offending.
Haha yes. I think you assumed I thought less of you or something when I didn't :) as I do not know you. Let us end this now and plant flowers.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 18:36

jellybean wrote: Haha yes. I think you assumed I thought less of you or something when I didn't :) as I do not know you. Let us end this now and plant flowers.
Well you did question my base to form an opinion. Which is the essence of me arguing. And you did say that JPHs may love something ingenuin which is a critic I don't agree to. To me it's rather offending to claim that (for example) I would think that every Japanese women was beautiful or that every Japanese company was successful like Sony. The term JPH is a ghost that don't exist in the real world. Sure you can see posters jokingly say they are Japanophiles but you will never see any of them admit to the definition that has been outlayd here.

But you're right, I put a smiley on you too. :-)

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Post by eye » Dec 29th, '06, 18:48

To be honest, I don't see what's the problem with "japanophiles" at all. I don't see what makes them any worse than Star Trek geeks, computer nerds, football maniacs, Brit-Pop boygroup fans, WoW addicts, etc. People get obsessed with so many things all the time. I've seen 20 year old girls break out in tears just because of their favorite pop band splitting up. Completely unrelated to japanophilism, but equally weird.

The city where I live happens to have a large Japanese population (the second largest in Europe if I remember correctly). There's one particular place well known for its Japanese shops, restaurants, karaoke bars, etc. Most of the time during the week you hardly see any Germans around, but every Saturday you'll witness some groups of japanophiles and cosplayers gathering there, visiting one of the bookstores and looking for the latest anime/manga stuff. Obviously they are otakus. Although I don't share their level of enthusiasm, I don't have any problem with it either. It's all about entertainment. If it's acceptable in Japan, why not elsewhere? Japanese pop culture is being influenced by other cultures all the time. You needn't visit or study Japan as a whole in order to fully understand and appreciate Japanese entertainment.

One particular thing I dislike about this topic is people's attempts at categorizing between "good" and "bad" japanophilism, e.g. being "genuinely interested in the country/culture" is considered OK, being an anime or J-pop fan only is not. Visiting Japan is OK if you speak the language, speaking the language without visiting Japan is not. Appreciating Japanese women/men for their physical traits is OK, prefering them is not. Watching "Memoirs of a Geisha" is a big no-no if you're a white dude. Watching "Last Samurai" is OK since the Japanese liked it. And so forth. Everyone feels obliged to emphasize that "Japanese are like any other people" as if others didn't know that already. Everyone feels required to explain and rationalize his/her interest in particular aspects of Japan. You get the idea. I wish there was at least one actual Japanese around here to point out the apparent absurdity of this topic.

If anything, it shows there are at least as many stereotypes regarding "japanophiles" as there are stereotypes regarding Japan.
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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 18:53

eye wrote:To be honest, I don't see what's the problem with "japanophiles" at all. I don't see what makes them any worse than Star Trek geeks, computer nerds, football maniacs, Brit-Pop boygroup fans, WoW addicts, etc. People get obsessed with so many things all the time. I've seen 20 year old girls break out in tears just because of their favorite pop band splitting up. Completely unrelated to japanophilism, but equally weird.

The city where I live happens to have a large Japanese population (the second largest in Europe if I remember correctly). There's one particular place well known for its Japanese shops, restaurants, karaoke bars, etc. Most of the time during the week you hardly see any Germans around, but every Saturday you'll witness some groups of japanophiles and cosplayers gathering there, visiting one of the bookstores and looking for the latest anime/manga stuff. Obviously they are otakus. Although I don't share their level of enthusiasm, I don't have any problem with it either. It's all about entertainment. If it's acceptable in Japan, why not elsewhere? Japanese pop culture is being influenced by other cultures all the time. You needn't visit or study Japan as a whole in order to fully understand and appreciate Japanese entertainment.

One particular thing I dislike about this topic is people's attempts at categorizing between "good" and "bad" japanophilism, e.g. being "genuinely interested in the country/culture" is considered OK, being an anime or J-pop fan only is not. Visiting Japan is OK if you speak the language, speaking the language without visiting Japan is not. Appreciating Japanese women/men for their physical traits is OK, prefering them is not. Watching "Memoirs of a Geisha" is a big no-no if you're a white dude. Watching "Last Samurai" is OK since the Japanese liked it. And so forth. Everyone feels obliged to emphasize that "Japanese are like any other people" as if others didn't know that already. Everyone feels required to explain and rationalize his/her interest in particular aspects of Japan. You get the idea. I wish there was at least one actual Japanese around here to point out the apparent absurdity of this topic.

If anything, it shows there are at least as many stereotypes regarding "japanophiles" as there are stereotypes regarding Japan.
Good post! :thumright:

I didn't know it was a German city. What is the city on first place?

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Post by ninjavsself » Dec 29th, '06, 21:03

jellybean wrote:
ninjavsself wrote:Heh. I think my interest in Japan came when I started taking Japanese the first year of high school. Before I took this class, I had no idea what anime was and what doramas were. I just knew that the language was interesting and it seemed worthwhile to have a basic understanding of it. My interest in anime/dorama started later after I got more in-depth in to the japanese culture thanks to the japanese class.

There's something I would like to mention though. Just because something comes from Japan, it does not make it good. One only need to look at the endlessly manufactured pop stars that are brought out daily to see this. I usually find myself digging deeper than idols to find the japanese music that I truly enjoy. Bands such as Koenji Hyakkei, cruyff in the bedroom, boredoms and boris, at least to me, are the real finds of japanese music. But these bands do not have to be japanese for me to like them which I think is the main point I'm trying to make here.... I think. :unsure:
Wow - what sort of genre are those bands? Then again I'm not hugely into Jpop myself..
boredoms and koenji hyakkei are mostly experimental bands.
cruyff in the bedroom has a lot of roots in the shoegaze sound. Think early my bloody valentine.
Boris are more of drone/stoner rock kind of band. They're still very good though.

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Post by Keymaker » Dec 29th, '06, 23:51

eye wrote:what eye wrote
The level of enthusiasm by the Japanophiles in your city seem pretty tame compared to the ones one encounters in an American university setting. If the Japanophiles acted like any typical -phile, most people probably wouldn't have such a huge fit over them. Sadly, the Japanophiles in the US...they're like terrorists of the weird kind.

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Post by Kath-Lee » Dec 30th, '06, 00:06

Hahaha.
I've met only one person who's still all crazy about Japan even though she has lived there for a respectable time.

I AGREE!

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Dec 31st, '06, 04:57

Okay, I didn't know what Japanophile is so I looked it up. From dictionary.com:

A Japanophile, or alternatively a Nipponophile, is a non-Japanese person with a strong interest in one or more aspects of Japan or Japanese culture. The word is always used in a derogatory manner to denote a person with an excessive and misguided interest with Japan.


I guess I am a Japanophile after all. I'm a non-Japanese person with a strong interest in one or more aspects of Japan/Japanese culture. It is probably the damn truth that my interest is somewhat excessive and possibly misguided. If the term is derogatory I certainly like the 'scholars' to come up with a better term but in the meantime I can't deny the person that I am (because I think it's important to realize all aspects of myself as being a Japanophile is not the worst part of me). What can I say I'm only human and one with too many imperfections. :D (But hey at least I've visited the place and it was nice.)

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Post by Phearsome » Dec 31st, '06, 10:09

Hideaki_Ito wrote:Okay, I didn't know what Japanophile is so I looked it up. From dictionary.com:

A Japanophile, or alternatively a Nipponophile, is a non-Japanese person with a strong interest in one or more aspects of Japan or Japanese culture. The word is always used in a derogatory manner to denote a person with an excessive and misguided interest with Japan.


I guess I am a Japanophile after all. I'm a non-Japanese person with a strong interest in one or more aspects of Japan/Japanese culture. It is probably the damn truth that my interest is somewhat excessive and possibly misguided. If the term is derogatory I certainly like the 'scholars' to come up with a better term but in the meantime I can't deny the person that I am (because I think it's important to realize all aspects of myself as being a Japanophile is not the worst part of me). What can I say I'm only human and one with too many imperfections. :D (But hey at least I've visited the place and it was nice.)
Haha yea I figured it out after reading all the post from the first page. First time I watched anime was when I was in grade 4, when Teletoon Network was airing Ninja Scroll and I didn't even know it was anime. I was interested and found out what anime really was when I saw ninja scroll again in grade 8. Im interested in ANime and Jpop and i collect anime as you can see (my lists haha in my signature) but i also collect games (gotta collect all the good rpgs meng), DVD (movies are great wish i could watch em all. But I've been watching HK dramas since i was small and I still do (and seriously HK actors from "TVB" are so much better looking then ALL of mainland china actors IMO) Got into Jdramas when i first watched GTO/Orange Days/Pride.

Yea I do use japanese screen name sometimes but i also use korean/english/vietnamese. Right now im learning how to speak japanese because a lot of my friends have been to japan and they tell me its a great place to visit but damn expensive.

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Post by auroragb » Jan 1st, '07, 03:30

I think that the term Japanophile is often used in a derogatory manner. Whereas nipponophile often is not. Probably people who use Japanophile are often people who like to stereotype and don't want to bother figuring out the correct term. Whereas, if you actually figure out the correct term, you'd not be so quick to stereotype / judge people negatively...
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Post by MirroredSoul » Jan 3rd, '07, 06:22

I think it's true as it accounts for myself. I love Japan but visiting the country is not something I've done... yet. Well, it's definitely 100% on my to-do list!

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Post by kazunori » Jan 3rd, '07, 08:29

mun78 wrote:They have their problems, like all other countries, but their people seem openly polite. I'm not sure of this, that's why one day I want to go to the country.
The "openly polite" thing is a common stereotype and one reason for this is related to how customer service is such a large part of Japanese business culture. Many companies have rigid step-by-step procedures in their employee training manuals on how to greet and address customers in addition to intense and at times, harsh training methods to accomplish this objective. Visit a gas station or most chain conbini's to see how serious service is taken at even the most mundane of customer service jobs.

For tourists who go on guided tours, their primary interaction with Japanese people are those working in service related positions which leads to this skewed perception that most Japanese are normally this polite and conscientious when the reality is it is more or less a superficial facade dictated by the employee training manual. Outside of the workplace, this same degree of helpfulness and polite behavior isn't as common and is like anywhere else where some folks are helpful while others won't even stop to give you the time of day. A great place to witness Japanese at their worse with varying degrees of rude or selfish behavior is during the early morning or late evening rush hour train commute (which I am glad to no longer be a part of).
Phearsome wrote:they tell me its a great place to visit but damn expensive.
This depends on what you do, where you go, and where you stay. Tourist traps are usually that way (over priced). Barhopping and nightclubbing can also be expensive but there are plenty of other inexpensive activities. The tourist info centers (TIC) have these booklets which gives tips on free walking tours, free attractions, coupons which offer discounts off of entrance fees to parks and museums. The one published by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government is really good since many of the deals have an expiration date an year from the quarter the booklet was published.

There are also plenty of reasonably priced eating places where a home cooked style teishoku (lunch set) can be had for Y550-Y850 but most of these are off the beaten path in the back alleys or a hole in the wall (there are also chains like Ootoya which also offer inexpensive home style lunch and dinner sets). Kichijoji and Shimokitazawa are two of my favorite places I enjoy walking around to find good but inexpensive eating places.

When I go back for visits, I stayed in regular business hotels (Y6000-8000 per night) but now use these hybrid hotel-resident type places like Tokyu Stay since they have a washer and dryer, microwave oven (some have a mini kitchen) in the room. There are open markets where produce can be pretty cheap (so I would cook if I found good deals). I used to go either early in the morning to find bargains or near closing when more so, they discount whats left by a good amount.

As for the Japan fanatic who likes everything and anything to do with Japan and views it as some perfect place without faults and making that determination based mostly upon images derived from Japanese popular culture (mainly through anime, jpop, dorama), I think these types tend to be a tiny but vocal minority of the various communities. Most people tend to be a bit more realistic and don't need to visit Japan to realize that it has its own set of issues and is not necessarily like how the popular culture makes it out to be. As a matter of fact, I've met some who have been to Japan on numerous occasions but still have a whacked view because they only stuck to the "fantasy land" entertainment type of activities in Tokyo (like maid bars, anime, and JAV shops in Akiba, going to the idol shops in Harajuku, spending an entire day at Mandarake in Nakano Broadway, the adult entertainment nightlife in Shinjuku, the clubs in Shibuya and Roppongi, you get the drift....) and never really taking the time to dig past all that stuff to discover at least some of the real Japan during their time there.

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Post by Kanin » Jan 3rd, '07, 14:23

kazunori wrote: For tourists who go on guided tours, their primary interaction with Japanese people are those working in service related positions which leads to this skewed perception that most Japanese are normally this polite and conscientious when the reality is it is more or less a superficial facade dictated by the employee training manual. Outside of the workplace, this same degree of helpfulness and polite behavior isn't as common and is like anywhere else where some folks are helpful while others won't even stop to give you the time of day. A great place to witness Japanese at their worse with varying degrees of rude or selfish behavior is during the early morning or late evening rush hour train commute (which I am glad to no longer be a part of).
Yes of course. That act is an act in every society. Though the effort can be executed in various ways on the planet. :lol

Which brings to another point that I love (yes, I love jelly) about Japan.You are kinda touching something that is the backbone, to in a much higher degree to the Japanese, than to others. It's catering to the customer in the sense that the customer (private or company) are never wrong. That desire or that instinct, together with the catering to the details of always wanting to improve, are big reasons to the fierce domestic competitiveness and overall success. It really sounds like a given thing, but the customer is not the king in all countries.


kazunori wrote: As for the Japan fanatic who likes everything and anything to do with Japan and views it as some perfect place without faults and making that determination based mostly upon images derived from Japanese popular culture (mainly through anime, jpop, dorama), I think these types tend to be a tiny but vocal minority of the various communities.
I wanna know why do people, who believe in Japanophiles existence (as the term has been defined by here), think that Anime, Manga, Jpop and JDrama would adress a flawless Japanese society. Each one of those forms are so big in their own (dealing with practically every issue on society) that accusing them to adress the smallest zero faulty is insane.

I'm sorry but to me a Japanophile sounds more like a 10 year old who apart from having a high interest in Japanese entertainment also have no idea of how the world in general works. So in essence it's as an equally big deal to accuse a 10 year old for not understanding the flow of global economy. Annoying as hell. :D

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Post by auroragb » Jan 3rd, '07, 16:04

Indeed, Japan is one of the very few places that still holds the concept of customers. Most rest of the world no longer believes there are customers for goods anymore, just consumers.

It may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but the terminology dictates how you treat them. Customers need to be serviced, consumers are sheep, so they need to be fleeced.

Anyhow, I like a place, like Japan, where you can be the customer
Jdrama Chinese fansub index 2006 | 2007

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jan 3rd, '07, 22:56

It is only natural that people's enthusiasm gets in their way and they overlook certain imperfections of their object of affection however that is not to say in the back of their mind they're not aware that their object of affection is imperfect. But then again it's also natural for some people to sit around making general statements about the so-called 'Japanophiles' through their perception while the 'Japanophiles' sit around making general statements about Japan through their perception. In the end, it seems to me that everyone is doing the same thing but somehow a need of feeling superior from one group to another is always there.

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Post by ruisu » Jan 6th, '07, 20:46

Prince of Moles wrote:Well, to be fair, I would like to say that there are probably more attractive women in Japan and Korea than in the United States (or Europe) simply from the obesity factor.

US population = over 30% are fat
UK population = over 20% are fat
European population = around 12% are fat (depends on country)

Japanese and Korean population = less than 4% are fat

Fat people turn me off.
That reminds me, I showed an article to my half-japanese gf about a sad black girl in Osaka who locked her self indoors for 4 days to avoid being gawked at. It was pretty sad (but mostly funny), the minute she built up the courage to go outside, a passerby in a car stopped, rolled down the window and poked his head out, jaw dropped and all. lol.

Anyway, my gf's first reaction was: "Maybe she was fat." I did not understand her until I saw those numbers. I thought maybe black females are really rare in Japan, but I still thought it was crazy for her to feel like locking her self indoors. But if she were big and black, then that must have been a double-whammy to the natives.

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Post by Prince of Moles » Jan 7th, '07, 02:01

I probably ought to site my sources on these things, so that people don't think I'm making up these numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bmi30chart.png

Keep in mind that:
BMI over 30 is obese.
BMI between 25 and 29 is overweight.
BMI 18.5-25 is normal weight.
BMI under 18.5 is skinny.

BMI = kg / m2 (divide your weight in kilograms by the square of your height in meters)

I am 165 pounds and 5 feet 8 inches.
165 pounds = 74.25kg (1lb = 0.45kg)
5 feet 8 inches = 68 inches = 172.72 cm = 1.73m (1 inch = 2.54cm)
1.73 x 1.73 = 2.99
BMI = 74.25/2.99 = 24.83

I am on the border of normal and overweight.


Most recent statistics show that if you add people who are overweight to those who are obese then 65% of the US is overweight or obese.

If you consider the upper range of the overweight people to be fat than over half of the US population is fat. Since fat people turn me off, I'm choosing from less than half of the total population that I might consider attractive in the US.

People who are overweight or obese in US, UK, Europe vs Japan and Korea
US 65%
UK 60%
Europe around 40% (depends on country)
Korea over 25%
Japan under 25%

http://www.choicesmagazine.org/2004-3/o ... 4-3-02.htm

These statistics makes me believe that women in Japan/Korea are more attractive.

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Post by Keymaker » Jan 7th, '07, 11:43

Prince of Moles wrote:These statistics makes me believe that women in Japan/Korea are more attractive.
Hooray to broad generalizations!

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Post by WildWill » Jan 8th, '07, 10:25

20centuryboy wrote:a lot of of people on this forum try to convince themselves they are not otakus but:

-spending so much time on useless discusions ( where everyoone will stand on his position in the end anyway)...
-spending so much time watching ...dramas...
-having an animated avatar and an animated signature ...

etc...
There must be somethin' up.
:lol:
+1
Testify! :goggle:

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Post by karin-chan » Jan 21st, '07, 07:38

iLL go that someday...

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Post by ianwarren » Jan 22nd, '07, 18:33

I don't think it's that simple... I've never met any hardcore Japanophiles though!

Personally I love Japanese culture but the sad truth is that I just can't afford to visit Japan so I immerse myself in the culture that I can afford (namely TV shows, movies, manga etc. etc.)

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Post by sambuk » Jan 22nd, '07, 19:05

i went to Japan for 2 weeks and had an obsession before that, but i didnt really watch anime, i only listened to utada really, and taught myself japanese etc, and watched the odd japanese film, but mainly western films involving Japan (kill bill etc) but when i got back my friend showed me hana yori dango and i loved it for the storyline etc but i think the main factor is because its in japan and i just love the ppl and EVERYTHING about it, (culture, history, everything.) im currently switching between lsiteninbg to arashi - love so sweet, and utadas flavor of life and i habve been for the past couple of hours/days :D its all i listen to. But i dont really know what animes to watch, or what bands to listen to, or what shows are good etc,i tihkn thats why i dont listen to/watch much else japan:/ but srtill ill go and see ANY western films thats about/even VAGUELY related to japan, or especially if it has even the smallest part of any place in Japan in the film . if that makes sense...

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Post by Prince of Moles » Jan 23rd, '07, 21:57

That actually didn't make sense to me. You're basically getting a second hand look of Japan via Western eyes rather than getting a feel for the original with your own eyes.


How can you NOT know what shows to watch if you've been to Japan and if you are browsing this forum? Just check the recommended Jdramas thread and pick out what you might be interested.

As for anime, I don't know what your tastes are so I won't recommend anything in particular, but I will say that Miyazaki Hayao and Studio Ghibli products are usually good.


I don't listen to much Jpop so I won't comment on the music front.

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Post by rurounimon » Jan 25th, '07, 17:19

What an interesting thread. I've never heard of the word "japanophile," but have met people like that in the anime club (haven't gone in a loooong time) and Japanese class that I used to take. They kind of scare me :unsure:

Although I am American-Japanese (Okinawan to be exact), I guess there was an earlier time in life (high school) where I felt a little obsessed with manga and anime, and could have been considered a "japanophile". But that didn't last too long (like with Korean drama, my obsession wore down since I get tired of it after awhile... but I still try to watch some of the good series).

Blah, I've only recently started posting here just to feed my current obsession: hana yori dango 2! I loved reading the whole manga series!

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Post by haruhi-san » Jan 25th, '07, 23:49

"japanophile", hmm I never heard that before. (It has a interesting ring to it). Ive lived in Japan for about 4 years and my father is a country bumkin born in Hokkaido :P . But some people are japanese obssessed and are from japan. (hence me). Going back to Japan is on my to-do list for summer breaks. :cheers: Most people im friends with havent gone and are planning on going.
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Post by oddglit » Jan 26th, '07, 02:49

Definition of a japanophine from urbandictionary.com.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... apanophile

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Post by Romance » Jan 27th, '07, 05:31

1 % might be japhophiles while 99 % are AmericoPhiles. Why put these in the spot.

Anyway, i totally love japan and im in japan now and its definately the greatest place on the planet, i really enjoy my life like no other place living here.

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Post by Romance » Jan 27th, '07, 05:43

Romance wrote:1 % might be japhophiles while 99 % are AmericoPhiles. Why put these in the spot. Well i guess its due to your yankeebrain, you cant help it, you have to point out it, they are so DIFFERENT, way to crazy for me!!!11!

Anyway, i totally love japan and im in japan now and its definately the greatest place on the planet, i really enjoy my life like no other place living here.

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Post by LdyPixie » Jan 27th, '07, 06:09

A lot of people tend to base their assumptions off of what they see. And what they see is television, so they might be mislead into thinking that most Japanese are witty, charming, thoughtful, and outgoing people.

Similarily, in many third world countries, what they see related to America is American television. So they are mislead into thinking that America is full of prosperty, beautiful sandy beaches, blondes in bikinis, mansions, and Jaguars. Which results in what we call immigration, and ends up becoming welfare a lot of the time.

Personally, although I consider myself a "Japanophile" (their culture and customs intrigue me), I have mixed views about visiting Japan. My concerns are that it's expensive (I'm a poor college student and even if I had money, time is an issue. And, unfortunately, I don't have such generous parents), and it might not be worth it (I'm not going to use my precious money to have a bad experience. Maybe if I had the money to waste then I might be able to say "oh to hell with it, if I have a good time, then great, if I don't, then at least I get to say I've been there.")

I do have a question to ask however. What is the average/typical opinion(I'm talking stereotypes here) of an african american(completely white-washed, mind you) to a Japanese person?

I had a bad experience in San Francisco where I was waiting for the bus on Market St along with a few Japanese guys. I said hello and asked if they were touring San Francisco(in Japanese). Three of them outright ignored me. One guy said Yes, they were(very rudely in English). Then they all ignored me. Ever since then I've felt skeptical about visiting Japan. Maybe they were just spoiled brats, rich enough to tour America, or maybe it was because I approached them, or maybe because I'm black. I'd really like to know.

In the first episode of the second season of Hana Yori Dango when Tsukushi is being harrassed by those three black men I groaned inside and was thinking "Oh god, could the stereotype get any worse, really." While on the surface there's nothing to it, the subconcious is thinking "yeah that's about right, three black guys from harlem being violent hoodlums is nothing unordinary."

Sorry my post became so long! I didn't mean to turn this into a descrimination issue, but I'm really curious to hear your thoughts!

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Post by baby_bytes » Jan 27th, '07, 13:43

Well let's see, I first got interested in Japan back in the summer of 2005. It was because when I was younger, they were showing Sailor Moon on the Cartoon Network, of course me being naive, I thought it was American. Long story short I looked for it all over the internet and in my journey I found out that it was an anime from Japan, and so on. Anywho, I finally found a fansub group that was releasing it, and i really got into to the point where i detested the dub lol then I was getting fustrated of reading subs, and wondered about the language, well I remembered my university had some language courses, Japanese being one, so I added it to my schedule because it fit my schedule and my saga began from there. I took 1 year of Japanese in my univeristy and did a 6 month study abroad to Japan in an exchange program in Chiba prefecture. I was going to stay a year since I had gotten a year long scholarship, but came back in order to graduate sooner. I was able to learn more about their culture, food, traditions, etc because I was also interested in that, not just the anime. Now that I graduated last semester I was hired at a company in Japan and will be going back to Japan to work in about a month. I missed being in Japan. :mrgreen:

So this "japanophile" has actually visted, well lived there, and will be going back to live there heheh :cheers:
Last edited by baby_bytes on Jan 27th, '07, 13:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by nihonjunkie » Jan 27th, '07, 13:53

hmm.. i'm a japophile and have been to japan .
once before i was a japophile and after i became one..
then now i'm learning japanese and i vow to only go there once my japanese is decent enough!

hahaha.

somehow i think everything about japan is intriguing. not just the entertainment, but the culture, the history, and the japanese are simply SO innovative, so creative..
you can find almost any gadget or gismo in japan...

:D

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Post by Prince of Moles » Jan 27th, '07, 19:21

On the topic of how Japanese view African Americans there is the stereotypical image that is also prevalent in Japan --- pro good at athletics, music; con violent and thuggish. I'm guessing that a lot of people get this information from movies, music videos, and the news (like almost anywhere else in the world).

So their views tend to be rather extreme. Some are afraid and would prefer to have nothing to do with blacks. Some are enthusiastic and love black culture, going so far as to braiding their hair for example. I found very few people in Japan who had a nuanced view, that black people are people and that there are various types and personalities.

I'm afraid that Ldypixie you might have met the former rather than the latter.

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Post by jz87 » Jan 27th, '07, 19:55

LdyPixie wrote:A lot of people tend to base their assumptions off of what they see. And what they see is television, so they might be mislead into thinking that most Japanese are witty, charming, thoughtful, and outgoing people.

Similarily, in many third world countries, what they see related to America is American television. So they are mislead into thinking that America is full of prosperty, beautiful sandy beaches, blondes in bikinis, mansions, and Jaguars. Which results in what we call immigration, and ends up becoming welfare a lot of the time.

Personally, although I consider myself a "Japanophile" (their culture and customs intrigue me), I have mixed views about visiting Japan. My concerns are that it's expensive (I'm a poor college student and even if I had money, time is an issue. And, unfortunately, I don't have such generous parents), and it might not be worth it (I'm not going to use my precious money to have a bad experience. Maybe if I had the money to waste then I might be able to say "oh to hell with it, if I have a good time, then great, if I don't, then at least I get to say I've been there.")

I do have a question to ask however. What is the average/typical opinion(I'm talking stereotypes here) of an african american(completely white-washed, mind you) to a Japanese person?

I had a bad experience in San Francisco where I was waiting for the bus on Market St along with a few Japanese guys. I said hello and asked if they were touring San Francisco(in Japanese). Three of them outright ignored me. One guy said Yes, they were(very rudely in English). Then they all ignored me. Ever since then I've felt skeptical about visiting Japan. Maybe they were just spoiled brats, rich enough to tour America, or maybe it was because I approached them, or maybe because I'm black. I'd really like to know.

In the first episode of the second season of Hana Yori Dango when Tsukushi is being harrassed by those three black men I groaned inside and was thinking "Oh god, could the stereotype get any worse, really." While on the surface there's nothing to it, the subconcious is thinking "yeah that's about right, three black guys from harlem being violent hoodlums is nothing unordinary."

Sorry my post became so long! I didn't mean to turn this into a descrimination issue, but I'm really curious to hear your thoughts!
Well I'm not black so I wouldn't know first hand, but I think it really depends on the person and situation. From my university classes I learned that Japanese culture in general makes a big distinction between Japanese and Foreign. It's the whole us them thing. As a foreigner you might actually get treated better, in the sense of being a guest. I think a lot of people want to give you a good impression of Japan, everyone I met have certainly been really nice and outgoing with me. The only time I got ignored was at the train station when I was asking for help how to buy tickets (their ticket machines are like nuclear control panels, it's intimidating). I'm Chinese so most people mistook me for Japanese. That plus I worked on my accent to sound Japanese probably meant people thought it was a joke that someone is asking for help buying a ticket. (Being recognizably a foreigner can sometimes be an advantage)

More random strangers started conversations with me than they do here in the US. Several of them were curious about my camera and how much it cost. (Which was weird for me because it was a Nikon, it's made in Japan). I think if you speak decent Japanese you'll get a lot more out of a trip to Japan. I got lost in Tokyo one day and ran into two guys coming home from work. I asked them for directions to Tokyo University and they ended up walking me there. We had a really fun conversation along the way about manga and love hotels.

My overall impression of Japan is that it can be really different depending on where you go. I went to both the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo and the Peace Memorial in Hiroshima. Yasukuni was basically like Japan was justified in starting WWII because it was trapped in a foreign conspiracy. Peace Memorial is like renounce war and nuclear weapons. War is never right.

You might want to stay away from China though. I have heard people openly say racist things about black people over there. At least here people know to not openly say racist things if they're racist.

Do you remember what the Japanese people you met said in English? I notice that a lot of times I have to be really careful what I say in Japanese because I can be unknowingly rude (even using Keigo when it's not called for can be considered rude). When talking to foreigners you have to keep in mind the same English words might not have the same connotations/meaning to them as it does to you. There's a classic misinterpretation of Japanese where one version of yasashii means kind, and the other means easy. So a Japanese woman would consider being described as yasashii as being a compliment, but American guys interpret it to mean they like being seen as being easy. You can see how all sorts of misunderstanding can arise from this. A lot of people who aren't fluent in a foreign language think in their native language and then translate. So if a Japanese guy says you are very easy, that can sound really rude to an American woman.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Jan 27th, '07, 22:16

I am not black either, but from my observations, Prince of Moles seems to be right. Some Japanese LOVE the African-American music culture they see on TV and others will have very negative opinions about black people (drug use etc.)... generally, it seems to me like being black isn't easy and that people's reactions can be rather extreme, both in the good and the bad sense. However, it wouldn't stop me from going there.

People all over the world have all sorts of stereotypes of people that are different than they are and some will be so hell-bent on them that they won't ever give these people a chance, no matter what they say or do. However, I think if you have a good personality, decent looks and good manners, many people will reward you with politeness and interest.

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