Most Japanophiles haven't visited Japan yet

Talk about the culture and entertainment from Nihon.
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Most Japanophiles haven't visited Japan yet

Post by jellybean » Dec 28th, '06, 01:25

Do you think that's true?

Every Japanophile that I have briefly encountered have not been to Japan.

Every person that I have met that has been to Japan isn't a Japanophile.

Am I overgeneralising?

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Post by Eziya Minamoto » Dec 28th, '06, 01:33

I've noticed that myself...But I don't think that applies to every Japanophile.

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Post by kyosak » Dec 28th, '06, 01:41

Maybe it's because most Japanophiles are afraid to leave their rooms and go out into the sun. :P
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Post by aNToK » Dec 28th, '06, 02:01

Hmm.. Guess I'm not much of a Japanophile (sounds way too much like pedophile, which coincidentally is how I'd feel spending too much time looking at schoolgirls...), since my drama's split between Japan and Korea and the only J-pop I have is some Morning Musume and High And Mighty Color (And some Bleach, and some Shonen Knife....), but I did spend my first several school years in Japan.

Little aNToK running around at about 4 feet tall with a kimono strapped on his Irish/Indian back. Those were entertaining days...
I am not obsessed. I am just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very focussed...

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Post by Gir » Dec 28th, '06, 03:18

I kind of noticed that myself.
In my case I wasn't interested in Japan until I went there, and only after I did I became one.
When I've been to the local universities Asian studies programs, (which are many times based around Japanese anime or movies) while talking to faculty they ask how I got interested in Japanese anime/movies, when I reply that I visited Japan, leading to an interest in Japan then to a liking of anime, they are usually surprised and say that that's the opposite of how most people are. On another note after attending a couple of their anime club meetings, I decided not to join the "anime community". It really wasn't a pretty sight.
If you can remain calm while all around you others are panicking... Then you obviously have not adequately assessed the situation.

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Post by Eziya Minamoto » Dec 28th, '06, 03:36

Gir wrote:I kind of noticed that myself.
In my case I wasn't interested in Japan until I went there, and only after I did I became one.
When I've been to the local universities Asian studies programs, (which are many times based around Japanese anime or movies) while talking to faculty they ask how I got interested in Japanese anime/movies, when I reply that I visited Japan, leading to an interest in Japan then to a liking of anime, they are usually surprised and say that that's the opposite of how most people are. On another note after attending a couple of their anime club meetings, I decided not to join the "anime community". It really wasn't a pretty sight.
When I went to an Anime Club meeting, I quickly vowed never to return...It was quite annoying when girls would cry when somebody died, especially since they've watched the movie numerous times, and their hyperness drove me insane.

Cosplayers crack me up, especially if they're really bad at it.

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Post by getsuga » Dec 28th, '06, 04:20

So my guess is correct, "Anime Community" is unlikely to be a "constructive community" or whatever that has a positive impact on your life. However, what about "J-Drama Community" ?

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Post by Aulcard » Dec 28th, '06, 04:36

I think we really need to make a distinction between atleast two types of Japanophiles. Those who are genuinly interested in Japan as a nation, enjoy perhaps socializing with Japanese people and probably have some interest in Japanese culture and history. Likely to enjoy living and working in Japan.

Then there are the Anime/JPOP freaks. Even though these types are all 'JAPAN IS AWESOME!' I think it in reality has very little to do with Japan. It is just about the Anime/JPOP. Since to these people, Anime/JPOP -IS- Japan. It represents everything awesome about Japan to them. As a consequence of their obsession, everything that comes from Japan is automatically 'cool'. Which is usually limited to Pocky and other such things. If you think I am fabricating generalizations, I am not. One of my best friends is a super JPOP Otaku who has 5 terrabytes of hard disk space, atleast half of which I am certain is dedicated to JPOP related things. He has an unhealthy obsession with Morning Musume. I have met enough of his friends to know this is not an isolated phenomenon. Also I have met other people like this in Australia at university and in Japan at university. The Anime club honestly scares me.

While the former Japanophile probably has a very high chance of having been to or planning to come to Japan, I would have to say that the large majority of the latter type have not been to Japan and probably never will. Unfortunately there are those that make it. Come to Japan and talk to J.E.T. applicants and you will see. Otaku central. Also in exchange programs in Japanese universities you are likely to find one of two Anime/JPOP otaku who came to Japan yet, rather than enjoy Japan for Japan, spend all their time in Anime clubs or going to Akihabara and visitng maid cafes.

It blows my mind. What is wrong with those people. And if you are one of them, sorry, but I have no pity or regret in labelling you as such. Otaku give a bad name to the rest of us with an interest in Japan.

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Post by Gorahgurl » Dec 28th, '06, 04:41

Ah, don't get me wrong here. I used to watch anime, but now all I watch is JDorama. I also love music such as Gackt, JE, Ayumi, etc. But I'm also teaching myself Japanese and I'm interested in the culture, and I plan to go there during or after university for a few years. I'm still considering jobs, but if nothing else, an English teacher. (How original, ne?)

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Post by princess_n » Dec 28th, '06, 04:58

i don't think that just because you're an anime or jpop freak means that you can't be interested in japan as a country, too. I mean, i love jdorama (though i also like kdoramas too), i like anime, manga, and jpop/jrock, which i'm sure puts me under the catogary of japanophile, BUT, it's not like i spend every waking hour being japan obsessive, it's not like i'm over the top in what i like, i just happen to like them things, i don't think it's just because they're japanese, i have non japanese interests too. I like other music, i read other books, watch other cartoons, etc. But, i am also interested in japan as a country, i wanted to go there before i knew jdoramas and jpop existed, and before i really used to watch much anime.
And, i don't really think otaku give others with an interest in japan a bad name, in particular. In every interest there's fans that go WAY over the top, but i think that happens in every thing like this, it's to be expected.
Anyway, back to what the post was about in the first place... personally, i've not been to japan, it's the furthest and most expensive place to go, from england, so going there is pretty hard work. I think the cost of going there probably prevents alot of japanophiles from going there, espcially us english ones.

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Post by 8thSin » Dec 28th, '06, 05:16

I guess I'm quite a Japanophile, since I pretty much only listen to Jpop for music and watch mostly Japanese TV shows (I only watch my TV for news and occasional sitcoms)
My Jpop vs English songs is like 15GB vs 1GB not including PV/Lives :lol


I lived in Japan though... In fact, I don't think I would've ever gotten into Japanese media without living there and influenced as a child. I'm fascinated by the anime club too, because I can't believe so many people actually managed to get addicted to Japanese stuff, when most of them can't understand half of what is actually being said.

I think Japan is a special place though. Of all the places I've lived in, Japan is the only place that gets me nostalgic.

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Post by Popdog » Dec 28th, '06, 05:44

I went to Japan in May 06, and am planning a return in March 07. I'm into Anime, and Jdrama and Jpop. But to be fair, a lot of anime has taught me much about the culture of the Japanese...like the outward politeness of the society, the fact that Japanese ppl are usually obsessed with their hair and fashion, the food they love to eat, the warlike nature of their past, the significance of their temples and shrines, the importance of Todai, the porn culture, their pride as a nation, and their school systems etc...

Without learning such things, my trip to Japan would have been so much less interesting. Cos when I was in Tokyo, I kept thinking...holy, it's all real!

So for myself, I think that if you take out all the big breasted female aliens, and all the magical powers, you will see that underlying all that anime fantasy is a real japanese way of thinking and living.

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Post by blackstarjr » Dec 28th, '06, 07:19

ahaha..I love that chart.Every time I read it, I cannot help but laugh.Well anways, Not sure if I would consider myself a Japanophile.Since I was in grade 8 (that's when my addiction to anime/jpop/drama began and since then it has spawned into liking the culture and history and also spawned my interest in Aikido), I have been wanting to go to japan and even now that I am in 3 yr university I still want to go but for some reason I just cannot find the time/money to do so.Sigh
Back from a long vacation

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Post by Aulcard » Dec 28th, '06, 09:23

princess_n wrote:i don't think that just because you're an anime or jpop freak means that you can't be interested in japan as a country, too. I mean, i love jdorama (though i also like kdoramas too), i like anime, manga, and jpop/jrock, which i'm sure puts me under the catogary of japanophile, BUT, it's not like i spend every waking hour being japan obsessive, it's not like i'm over the top in what i like, i just happen to like them things, i don't think it's just because they're japanese, i have non japanese interests too. I like other music, i read other books, watch other cartoons, etc. But, i am also interested in japan as a country, i wanted to go there before i knew jdoramas and jpop existed, and before i really used to watch much anime.
And, i don't really think otaku give others with an interest in japan a bad name, in particular. In every interest there's fans that go WAY over the top, but i think that happens in every thing like this, it's to be expected.
Anyway, back to what the post was about in the first place... personally, i've not been to japan, it's the furthest and most expensive place to go, from england, so going there is pretty hard work. I think the cost of going there probably prevents alot of japanophiles from going there, espcially us english ones.
You are an awesome example of a non-otaku, because you have the things you like but dont take it over the top. Also you like other things based on their merits, not 'HAY ITS JAPANEEESE'. Best of all you are actually interested in Japan, the real Japan, not magical happy fairy kawaii neko maid land that a lot of Anime otaku seem to want to live in.

You are right that in any field of interest there are always those that take it over the top. But for inexplicable reasons, it seems especially prevelant in relation to Anime/JPOP. I dont know why. Maybe I have just had an unusually bad stroke of luck meeting so many people like this, I dont know. Nonetheless it has tainted my perception.

As for the giving people a bad name thing, I personally am kind of tired of automatically being associated with otaku when someone finds out I study Japanese. Actually if I think about it, from non-otaku it is not so bad, usually just the 'so I suppose you like anime then' or the infinitely more annoying 'so you are just going to japan to pickup girls.' Usually it is otaku themselves that assume that because I speak japanese it means I am also an anime obsessed otaku and they wont even bother asking if I like anime, they will delve into which anime is my favourite or even just 'did you see that episode of...'

So my problem is not with people who like anime, just those ones who, rather than enjoying it, base their lives and more importantly social habits around it and act almost as though it were real. Im sure there are some morality police around who would say that it is not my place to say what is normal or acceptable social networking, but I dont care. Anime freaks creep me out and I wish they would stay the hell away from me. If I could go the rest of my life without seeing another cosplayer (anime or otherwise) or hearing the word 'yaoi' I would die somewhat happier.

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Post by getsuga » Dec 28th, '06, 09:32

I can't agree more with Aulcard (or Alucard ?).

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Post by aNToK » Dec 28th, '06, 10:37

Funny, though some of my interests definitely range into some otaku or "nerd" areas, I've never been treated as such by people I meet.

Maybe being built like a slightly smaller (and lighter) version of Mike Tyson has something to do with it??:P
I am not obsessed. I am just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very focussed...

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Post by getsuga » Dec 28th, '06, 11:33

Your interest is not what determines how people will treat you, rather, it is your apparent attitudes and, in your case, body :) . Even if you are obsessed with anime, as long as you can have positive apparent attitudes, people can not easily put you into the otaku group. You know, otaku is famous for being antisocial, have strange fetishes, pedophilia, maniac, etc..

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Post by Keymaker » Dec 28th, '06, 12:15

getsuga wrote:Even if you are obsessed with anime, as long as you can have positive apparent attitudes, people can not easily put you into the otaku group.
I couldn't say it better myself. Though rare, I've come across some pretty normal people that are hardcore anime fans.

In Japan (based from what I've heard from my Japanese classmates), they're not really big on:
1) otaku-types
2) foreigners

So it's not hard to imagine the type of welcome people who possess both these aspects would get in Japan.

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Post by anoney » Dec 28th, '06, 12:28

They're not big on foreigners?

lol, we're all screwed.

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Post by yieebo » Dec 28th, '06, 13:01

hmm, i never bought into the "otaku" negative crap... Japan has been influenced by the west in almost every "modern" manner. Music, pop culture, punk rock, classical music, rock, R&B, soul, Hip Hop, Funk, Jazz. modern industry, tech etc... so what does that make Japanese as a whole, "western loving otaku" themselves? it's crap.

It's like arguing about why anybody would choose to start collecting coins or anything else they are fanatical about. it simply interests them, and makes their lives diverse and exciting for whatever reason... maybe it's just another way they keep from being mind numbingly bored with their lives.

i collect air, why? because i F'ing want to! check out my collection of balloons full of air from all around the world.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Dec 28th, '06, 13:04

they love foreigners in japan. girls dont want hardcore otaku guys, but no one cares. JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS AND OTAKUS strikes me as wrong...i get so much attention in japan, i wouldnt call me an otaku (i hate anime with a passion) but i like manga, i like jpop, and i spend much time foraging for it, and ive never got anything but positive interaction with people.

japans wary of hiring foreigners for jobs and such but JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS is just wrong.
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Post by Keymaker » Dec 28th, '06, 14:19

nikochanr3 wrote:they love foreigners in japan.

...

JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS AND OTAKUS strikes me as wrong...

...

japans wary of hiring foreigners for jobs and such but JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS is just wrong.
You're right in that there's a fallacy in the argument that Japan hates foreigners and otakus. But from the last few posts, no one really said anything about Japan hating those groups. Despite what I wrote, not even I wrote that. I do think the part about people in Japan loving foreigners needs to be qualified though. It's a bit more complex than that.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Dec 28th, '06, 14:43

Keymaker wrote:
nikochanr3 wrote:they love foreigners in japan.

...

JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS AND OTAKUS strikes me as wrong...

...

japans wary of hiring foreigners for jobs and such but JAPAN HATES FOREIGNERS is just wrong.
You're right in that there's a fallacy in the argument that Japan hates foreigners and otakus. But from the last few posts, no one really said anything about Japan hating those groups. Despite what I wrote, not even I wrote that. I do think the part about people in Japan loving foreigners needs to be qualified though. It's a bit more complex than that.
you said JAPAN IS NOT BIG ON FOREIGNERS. from what ive seen, its the exact opposite when you visit. and as youve said, you havent been there, while ive spent easily more than a year there. thats why i said what i did.
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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 15:03

Personally, the guys who get addicted to Japanese dramas, anime, JPOP and especially Japanese AV and then go on to say how they think that all Japanese girls smell of bubblegum and are so much better than any other nationality of women annoy me the most.

Thankfully, it seems to me like most people who live in Japan and grow up realise sooner or later that Japanese girls are just like any other in the world. Many are hot, but some are just not.

Edit: I don't mean you if you have an at least somewhat realistic opinion on them. I mean exclusively the really extreme kind of Japan worshippers who actually believe that such a thing as an unattractive Japanese woman doesn't exist and who actually believe that ALL Japanese women are the way they imagine them to be. I don't mean to offend any of you reasonable lovers of Japanese women, so please don't feel so.
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Post by Prince of Moles » Dec 28th, '06, 16:02

Well, to be fair, I would like to say that there are probably more attractive women in Japan and Korea than in the United States (or Europe) simply from the obesity factor.

US population = over 30% are fat
UK population = over 20% are fat
European population = around 12% are fat (depends on country)

Japanese and Korean population = less than 4% are fat

Fat people turn me off.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 16:05

Néa Vanille wrote:Personally, the guys who get addicted to Japanese dramas, anime, JPOP and especially Japanese AV and then go on to say how they think that all Japanese girls smell of bubblegum and are so much better than any other nationality of women annoy me the most.

Thankfully, it seems to me like most people who live in Japan and grow up realise sooner or later that Japanese girls are just like any other in the world. Many are hot, but some are just not.
... weren't you just on a "I want a korean boyfriend" thread writing extremely long essays defending drama obsessed girls wanting a korean boyfriend? One annoys you yet the other doesn't? Sounds more like sour grapes to me.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people have different definitions for what a japanophile is, but the common feature seems to be obsession with anime/manga/jpop.

Even though being obsessed with that stuff is definitely uncool and the people could be using their time to do a lot better things (like actually learn the language?), I think the biggest japanophiles are the ones who waste an exorbitant amount of money on Japan and it's products. Like wasting money on comics, dolls and those cosplay garbage.

I also personally think (my opinion only) wasting money on a short trip there when you don't know the language, have a very limited money stream coming in, and pretty much don't even know where to go is just as bad.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 16:15

I think the obesity factor is only like 6 or 7% in Italy. Many young Italian women are hot.

I think there's nothing wrong in saying that Japanese women are generally easier on the eyes or even preferring them to other women for whatever reasons, but the Japanophiles who watch too much J-Porn and anime, worship all things Japanese and believe all Japanese chicks are Goddesses of Love and Comfort whose farts don't smell are pretty sad dorks. Nothing wrong with liking Japanese girls, nothing wrong with liking them more than any other, even, but keep it real. They're just people. Some dorky teenaged Japanophiles don't seem to know that.


@kotae:

Okay, it's obvious you haven't really read anything I said on that thread. *sigh*... first of all, I was DEFINITELY not defending any fangirls on the thread but merely stating how I view Korean society - many of the things I said on that thread were actually rather negative on Koreans and their society, the last thing I posted was actually about why I prefer Western schools to Korean schools! Worshipping Korean culture? Not really. And yes, I still do prefer Korean men to other men because I speak Korean the best of all Asian languages and I'm most familiar with their culture, but I don't have any unreasonable views on Korean people; I know that there are plenty of ugly Koreans who have their own share of faults. And yes, unreasonable fangirls who think all Korean men are Knights in Shining Armour are just as annoying. I even said so early on in that thread. Preferences are fine, but keep them real. Every worshipping seems pretty sad, be they Japanophiles worshipping Japanese girls because of JAV, anime and Otsuka Ai or be they Koreaphiles worshipping Korean men because they believe they are all as romantic, sweet and faithful as they are in KDrama. But seeing how this thread was one about Japanophiles and it therefore seemed logical not to mention anything about euqally-as-annoying Koreaphiles, I didn't really expect that some poster would come along accusing me of being 'sour grapes'. I'm disappointed in you. Especially considering that, in other threads about Japanese girls, many male posters have said just the same as I have about keeping things realistic and not letting your fantasy of Japanese people rule your doing. Really disappointed.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 16:34

@nea

that's fine. I honestly haven't read any of your recent posts-tooooooooooooooooo long. I just remember the ones you posted a while ago as a response to me. When I (or was it someone else) said that the girls here are only obsessed with korean guys because of dramas, you started writing all about how korean men are more desirable because they're taller than other asian men, have mandatory armed services etc. Even though I'm sure the original thought was refering to "out of all men" not just out of all asian men.

Either way if what you just wrote is how you feel, it was just my mistake, but your post does sound kind of hostile. Why does it annoy you if a bunch of otaku like japanese girls, it's not like you're going to date them anyway.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 16:45

It's true that I wrote a post about how Korean men were taller and viewed as more manly due to military service but that was in reply to someone asking, "what, just what makes them attractive?" I was merely trying to find explanations to why they were viewed as more desirable by non-Korean women, even to those not interested in KDramas. It's also true that Japanese women are generally slimmer than Western women and often take better care of their looks (fashion, make-up etc.) which often makes them more attractive to men. I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring Korean men because they're taller or Japanese women because they're slimmer. That having said, I do personally find Japanese women very attractive, too. Their languages makes them more delicate than, say, Korean women and I generally even find Japanese women in JDrama even more attractive than Korean women in KDrama. I'm sure their behaviour has something to do with it and I've always wanted to have a female Japanese friend myself (though, as I mentioned in another thread, the excessive 'I'm so cute' body language of some turns me off... but that's just me. They are rather attractive to me in general). So whenever I say something that sounds negative about Japanese women, it's not that I don't find them attractive myself and it also isn't that I'm envious of them (many are hot, but I'm happy with myself), it's more that this blatant fetishization of Japanese women that occassionally happens among extreme otakus freaks me out.

I guess you're right, it shouldn't bother me when some otaku gets his panties in a twist over unreasonably fantasies about Japanese women despite never having met one. It's pretty harmless after all and you're right, I'd never date one. However, I can't help but feel annoyed at this blatant fetishization of human beings, even though it's Japan itself that sells its women that way and Korea itself that sells its men that way. One of my female friends is totally obsessed with Swedish men because she's head over heels in love with some Swedish boyband and it goes so far that she looks for only Swedish men and has started looking down on all local men. It's sad and it annoys me. It's her own fault and it shouldn't bother me, but her childish behaviour and fetishization of Swedish men just does. I find it much worse than the worshipping of anime or Japanese food or language or what have you because it involves people.

Maybe I need a thicker skin.
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Post by 20centuryboy » Dec 28th, '06, 17:04

a lot of of people on this forum try to convince themselves they are not otakus but:

-spending so much time on useless discusions ( where everyoone will stand on his position in the end anyway)...
-spending so much time watching ...dramas...
-having an animated avatar and an animated signature ...

etc...
There must be somethin' up.
:lol:
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by bakan3ko » Dec 28th, '06, 17:14

The line between interest in Japanese culture and fetishization has become increasingly difficult to distinguish.

There seems to be much self-deluded rationalizations though this is just my opinion.

I agree with NEa. People should view people as people - some are hot most are not.

We are not the moral borameters of people's intentions though, despite the fact that it has little to do with me, I sincerely hope that their intentions would be free of fetishization and stereotypes. And, of course, noone will obviously reveal their fetish outright.

Me, I really liked showing my close friends dramas, which really moved me like 1 Litre of Tears. Difficult to find something like this in America...

Going to cousin's wedding in HK in the fall will stop by Japan after and visit (Kaisha no Tomodachi) work friends, drink a lil, get blinded by neon lights, and eat of course... :cheers:

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Post by blamvitaburst » Dec 28th, '06, 17:22

I agree with the point Néa Vanille is making. I don't think she's trying to insult people who like Asian women, but is trying to point out how sick and twisted it is when people have insane expectations of a certain group of people and choose them above all others. It's fine to find a certain culture and appearance more appealing on a personal level, but when you discard the possibility of getting to know other types of people in addition to that type or when you feel negatively towards people who aren't of that nationality or whatnot then you're creating a bad situation based on a generally foolish stereotype. Sometimes these discriminatory people sound mentally racialized to the point of true racism, and that's a very, very bad thing. The world needs to get rid of the weight that these stereotypes and false categories have with people, not encourage and promote it in order to sell people like a product to gullible and small minded foreigners. I think there are many attractive Asian women, but the majority of Asian women are going to be average in looks just based on the fact that no population has the upper hand in terms of genetic fitness. Placing them on a pedestal is ridiculous and harmful. You wouldn't say something like, "Those hot white women are perfect in every way and they have the best looks, are the most demure and polished, and I really think their culture is the greatest ever! I would only date those white women," so why would you say that about Asian women?
Being interested in and appreciative of a culture that's different from yours is wonderful, but thinking that a certain "race" (and I won't get into why I disagree with the use of that word and believe that race is a falsehood because I couldn't even fully cover it in a ten page paper for class so there's no room here for that :P) is greater than all the others out there is a dangerous and shallow mindset that is (personally) disgusting to see in others.
Also, I know lots of Asian women who are deeply hurt because of this perception of them as being perfect and demure creatures without any body fat or blemishes. They're not like that (they are, in fact, complete and autonomous human beings with faults, opinions, and deep thoughts like any woman would be) but they often get treated by men as if they might break, are stealth lady ninjas with some Buddhist death secret, or as though their greatest joy in life is cooking their man stir-fry and vacuuming. XP
Yeah, so I get annoyed when people do this to other people too, and not just in this instance. How you feel about people shouldn't hinge on what continent or population they come from.
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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 17:39

@blamvitaburst

so in other words, you're angry at people for doing nothing more than thinking.

Get over your PC crap and stop letting them bother you. If they choose to think like that let them. No, it doesn't hurt asian women, nor does it hurt you (since you probably have no intention of dating them anyway) if they think like that.

I mean it's one thing to think it's stupid, but to seriously get annoyed by it is just dumb and a waste of energy. I think BDSM is stupid, but it honestly doesn't annoy me that people do it. As long as their fetishes are in legal constaints, why should it bother you what they think or how they feel?

IMHO being angry at people for how they think is true descrimination. This PC crap is starting to get to everyone so that even thinking is a bad thing. Get a grip will ya...

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Post by HouseFan » Dec 28th, '06, 18:16

I take Japanese in college because I'd love to work with Japan in the future. I do enjoy Jpop and dramas and movies, but I have to say I do have a life. I have tons of other things to do, and I just enjoy the quality of the dramas/movies/music that I've heard/seen. I've also been to Japan, and I had a great time. So, I guess I'm not a Japanophile. I prefer not to think of myself as one.

The only problem I have is that I'm competing for a study abroad with two girls who are obsessed with anime and watch it all the time, as well as spend class time discussing it. They talk about how if they go they'll buy this DVD of this show and this manga and these anime-related items. I have a friends from Japan and they dislike American otakus that come to Japan just to buy up. But it could be just them. But to have to compete with that makes me frustrated. There's so much more to Japan than just that stuff - there are also bad things (just like every country) that they seem to gloss over because "anime's the most important thing".

These two girls haven't been to Japan, and I'm very worried how they will act if they go.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 18:28

HouseFan wrote: I have a friends from Japan and they dislike American otakus that come to Japan just to buy up. But it could be just them.
I'm pretty sure it's not just them. Japanese people generally don't have much respect for otakus, Japanese or American.

I'm not sure to which degree dramas are socially accepted, though. When talking to Japanese people, I most often got the notion that they found dramas to be 'girly stuff' and I never once had a Japanese man admit to me that he liked to watch them. I also remember Murakami Haruki bash JDramas in one of his novels. They seem to be accepted pastimes for girls, though, certainly moreso than anime. Any thoughts?

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 18:32

lol, I feel your pain housefan.

But this can be advantageous to you as well. Just say that you don't like anime, manga, or that other otaku stuff and that you think people that do are annoying, and you'll immediately make a lot of friends-have tried this myself, it works.

And to answer your question, unfortunately this might be how they act





tragic isn't it. But hey, like I said you can make anything work for you if you try hard enough. 8)

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Post by HouseFan » Dec 28th, '06, 18:40

@Néa Vanille: Maybe it's like soap operas in America - it's known as a feminine thing (not necessarily the cheesy "I love you! - or at least I think I love you, maybe I did before I got anmesia from jumping in front of that blackmailer's gun who was going to expose me for having you half-cousin twice removed's baby!")

@kotaeshiranaihito: That just makes me want to cry. :cry: If I get beaten to go study in Japan by the two girls who will probably be like that... :pale:

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 18:44

Néa Vanille wrote: I'm pretty sure it's not just them. Japanese people generally don't have much respect for otakus, Japanese or American.

I'm not sure to which degree dramas are socially accepted, though. When talking to Japanese people, I most often got the notion that they found dramas to be 'girly stuff' and I never once had a Japanese man admit to me that he liked to watch them. I also remember Murakami Haruki bash JDramas in one of his novels. They seem to be accepted pastimes for girls, though, certainly moreso than anime. Any thoughts?

From my experience, it depend on what drama you watch I guess. If it was famous like 1 liter of tears, densha otoko or exciting like chakushin ari, maybe joou no kyoushitsu, most won't care, especially if you tell them you were watching for the purposes of language learning. Most girls will actually like you more then. Of course going overboard with your drama watching and only talking about that is definitely not a good idea.

If the dramas you watch aren't famous and too girly or are based off of comics (or worse both) ... then that might be a problem with many japanese.

As for the guys ... well guys will rag on you no matter what you do, so might as well not tell them (if you're a guy).

Foreigners aren't judged as harshly as Japanese in certain aspects like whether they are an otaku or not, especially if they're white/korean guys and girls are the judges lol. I've known some japanese girls that wouldn't mind going out with a white otaku, but would rather die than even think about dating a japanese otaku.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Dec 28th, '06, 19:13

Most japanese gilrs I know are with some kind of otakus!
I do enjoy Jpop and dramas and movies, but I have to say I do have a life. I have tons of other things to do, and I just enjoy the quality of the dramas/movies/music that I've heard/seen. I've also been to Japan, and I had a great time. So, I guess I'm not a Japanophile. I prefer not to think of myself as one.
Sounds like "I'm an otaku but I don't want to admit it." :lol "My life is interesting, I ASSURE you that my life is interesting"

Ok, ok, nobody's life is interesting if you watch it from the moon. We're more than 6 billion you know. Just ants on an orange. You a re looking for some people to look down on just to prove yourselves that you worth better. If you hang around here, you must be an otaku, in a way or another.
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Post by Gir » Dec 28th, '06, 19:49

HouseFan wrote:I take Japanese in college because I'd love to work with Japan in the future. I do enjoy Jpop and dramas and movies, but I have to say I do have a life. I have tons of other things to do, and I just enjoy the quality of the dramas/movies/music that I've heard/seen. I've also been to Japan, and I had a great time. So, I guess I'm not a Japanophile. I prefer not to think of myself as one.

The only problem I have is that I'm competing for a study abroad with two girls who are obsessed with anime and watch it all the time, as well as spend class time discussing it.
These two girls haven't been to Japan, and I'm very worried how they will act if they go.
My last trip to Japan was a 2 week cultural exchange program with the local community college, and pretty much everyone who went was in the first year Japanese class. But there was one girl from another college. (She was flat out a ****, she talked about how her HS class ditched her in LAX on their senior trip, by the end of out trip I could see why) So our Japanese was not very good, and hers wasn't much better, but she was always correcting the others pronunciations, which was quite funny because when in Japan none of the Japanese could understand her at all, and she wouldn't eat any Japanese food at all, and pretty much just bitched the whole trip. But she would go on about how she was going to be an Interpreter in Japan when she graduated.

I myself do hold positive misconceptions of Japan and things Japanese, but I don't let it bother me, as I don't go around talking to everyone about Japan nor exhibiting any signs of it. People who know me, know I like Japan and I will discus it if asked about it, but I don't usually interject it into conversations unless appropriate. I also know my opinons on it will not effect any world outcomes, I'll not live in Japan, at best I'll only vacation there for a week or two. So I just let it go and kind of make it my happy place. :whistling:
If you can remain calm while all around you others are panicking... Then you obviously have not adequately assessed the situation.

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Post by niki112 » Dec 28th, '06, 19:59

Néa Vanille wrote: I'm not sure to which degree dramas are socially accepted, though. When talking to Japanese people, I most often got the notion that they found dramas to be 'girly stuff' and I never once had a Japanese man admit to me that he liked to watch them. I also remember Murakami Haruki bash JDramas in one of his novels. They seem to be accepted pastimes for girls, though, certainly moreso than anime. Any thoughts?
Well, my Japanese friend Taka doesn't seem to find them 'girly stuff' (or at least he has never told me that he thinks they're for girls only). He just doens't have time to watch them and also isn't very interested in most because he thinks they're often quite alike. He also found it quite weird that people from abroad were interested in japanese dramas. Lol, I regulary ask him to translate or check something for D-Fansubs and he doesn't mind doing that... :-).

Anime...one Japanese guy told me it's only for childeren. Like Naruto, his little brother (10 years old) watches that. When I told him I know a 21 year old guy who watches it, he was like :crazy: , lol. Another said only otakus watch anime....

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Post by HouseFan » Dec 28th, '06, 20:10

20centuryboy wrote:Most japanese gilrs I know are with some kind of otakus!
I do enjoy Jpop and dramas and movies, but I have to say I do have a life. I have tons of other things to do, and I just enjoy the quality of the dramas/movies/music that I've heard/seen. I've also been to Japan, and I had a great time. So, I guess I'm not a Japanophile. I prefer not to think of myself as one.
Sounds like "I'm an otaku but I don't want to admit it." :lol "My life is interesting, I ASSURE you that my life is interesting"

Ok, ok, nobody's life is interesting if you watch it from the moon. We're more than 6 billion you know. Just ants on an orange. You a re looking for some people to look down on just to prove yourselves that you worth better. If you hang around here, you must be an otaku, in a way or another.
I'm not saying that I think I'm better than people who are otaku, but "otaku", in my opinion, has a very strong connotation to it. I like Japanese drama and movies, but I like movies from all over the world, and it goes for music and other things too. You don't have to be an otaku to enjoy dramas and music. And I find there are other things to do other than watch dramas and obsess.

Just because you hang out here doesn't necessarily make you an otaku. May make you a fan, or maybe you're just interested, but not always "otaku".

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Post by jellybean » Dec 28th, '06, 20:23

I could understand if a Japanese person said "only otaku watch anime" although from this statement I wouldn't label someone non-Japanese an otaku if they watched anime (within constraints mind you) because anime is distinctively Japanese hence the novelty aspect of it.

I suppose it would be like if a 20 year old Japanese person saying to me "I love Animals of Farthing Wood" ... it may appeal to non British people but being British myself, I WOULD think it was weird.

Anyway back on topic - I'm being increasingly annoyed with people who aren't necessarily into anime and are exposed to snippets of Japanese culture via television and saying stupid things like "I want a Japanese wife' and they mean it seriously!

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 20:36

jellybean wrote:Anyway back on topic - I'm being increasingly annoyed with people who aren't necessarily into anime and are exposed to snippets of Japanese culture via television and saying stupid things like "I want a Japanese wife' and they mean it seriously!
They should SO make a movie out of that. Some white dude who takes his knowledge about Japanese women from 'Memoirs of a Geisha' marries the first Japanese woman he meets and then learns, the hard way, that not all Japanese women consider pleasing their men as the ultimate reason of their existence when she starts milking him for Prada boots and starts saying, "honey, not tonight - I have a headache!" :mrgreen:

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Post by Eziya Minamoto » Dec 28th, '06, 20:41

Néa Vanille wrote:
jellybean wrote:Anyway back on topic - I'm being increasingly annoyed with people who aren't necessarily into anime and are exposed to snippets of Japanese culture via television and saying stupid things like "I want a Japanese wife' and they mean it seriously!
They should SO make a movie out of that. Some white dude who takes his knowledge about Japanese women from 'Memoirs of a Geisha' marries the first Japanese woman he meets and then learns, the hard way, that not all Japanese women consider pleasing their men as the ultimate reason of their existence when she starts milking him for Prada boots and starts saying, "honey, not tonight - I have a headache!" :mrgreen:
Ignorance is the main problem with people who claim to love Japan...I say let them learn the hard way. Also, the most hilarious thing about Memoirs of a Geisha is that the cast was Pan-Asian, and it was directed by an American. Most of the movie was just how an American viewed Japanese culture.
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Post by anoney » Dec 28th, '06, 20:46

And even then, the Japanese geisha at the center of the story claims that he (the American) fabricated the story. Memoirs has been filtered through so much that one can hardly call it an authentic slice of Japanese life of the period it is set in. It's considered more a good (depending on taste) work of fiction than anything else now.

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Post by Gir » Dec 28th, '06, 21:06

Néa Vanille wrote:
jellybean wrote:Anyway back on topic - I'm being increasingly annoyed with people who aren't necessarily into anime and are exposed to snippets of Japanese culture via television and saying stupid things like "I want a Japanese wife' and they mean it seriously!
They should SO make a movie out of that. Some white dude who takes his knowledge about Japanese women from 'Memoirs of a Geisha' marries the first Japanese woman he meets and then learns, the hard way, that not all Japanese women consider pleasing their men as the ultimate reason of their existence when she starts milking him for Prada boots and starts saying, "honey, not tonight - I have a headache!" :mrgreen:
On that college trip, we spent a week with some of that college's students that were spending a year there on a work/study program, and one guy was pissing about Japanese girls and how he didn't like them any more because how in public they were always (I guess you would say) "Yes dear, whatever you say", but when in private they ran the show. And they weren't as quite and submissive as he always believed. It really doesn't take that much insite to the culture to have know that kind of stuff. Just the knowledge that in many marriages (at least in the past, now?) the wives run the household including the husband's wages and only doll out small weekly allowances, should tell you something.
If you can remain calm while all around you others are panicking... Then you obviously have not adequately assessed the situation.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Dec 28th, '06, 21:27

and once, at summer camp...
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Post by 20centuryboy » Dec 28th, '06, 21:35

HouseFan wrote:I'm not saying that I think I'm better than people who are otaku, but "otaku", in my opinion, has a very strong connotation to it. I like Japanese drama and movies, but I like movies from all over the world, and it goes for music and other things too. You don't have to be an otaku to enjoy dramas and music. And I find there are other things to do other than watch dramas and obsess.

Just because you hang out here doesn't necessarily make you an otaku. May make you a fan, or maybe you're just interested, but not always "otaku".
Well, Otaku is just a label some people putt on you. I'm sure most otaku don't feel like otakus! :) If I try to take someone else's point of view, if I met someone (french or english or american, ) who tell me "I watch Japanese dramas", I'm sure I would feel like "what's this weirdo?". First time i saw a japanese drama (without subs) in a Tokyo hotel room 10 years ago, I felt like " Hahaha!!! what a collection of cliches"

Just as long as you live the life you want and you're happy with it. If you're an otaku or not , what's the problem? :P
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Post by jocutus » Dec 28th, '06, 21:48

Does an Japanophilist only collect Japanese Stamps?
Have you guys tried reading what you typed?
I can watch 14 hours of Japanese drama without a break. Can thisget me an otaku-job? Does it pay well?
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Post by eye » Dec 28th, '06, 22:24

Néa Vanille wrote:They should SO make a movie out of that. Some white dude who takes his knowledge about Japanese women from 'Memoirs of a Geisha' marries the first Japanese woman he meets and then learns, the hard way, that not all Japanese women consider pleasing their men as the ultimate reason of their existence when she starts milking him for Prada boots and starts saying, "honey, not tonight - I have a headache!" :mrgreen:
Isn't it strange how a white dude attracted by a white chick is considered normal and acceptable, but if he prefers Asians, it's because of racial stereotypes and cultural misconceptions? Someone should make a movie out of that.
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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 22:36

Don't be stupid. By far not every relationship between a white dude and an Asian girl is based on racial prejudices and stereotypes, there are many who are genuine and based on equal appreciation, but I think it's pretty obvious a few are based on media-influenced expectations of one another. Not that this is unique to this kind of combination, it happens in every interracial combination imaginable, it just seems to be especially predominant in this particular combo due to several incorrect portrayals of Japanese culture in mass media, Memoirs of a Geisha just being one of many. Am I really expected to repeat for the 1000th time that there is nothing at all wrong with preferring Asian girls (or boys, for that matter) per se?
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Post by Kanin » Dec 28th, '06, 22:44

A Japanophile's defence: :D

I really don't like the use of japanophile to refer to other people's interest level, at least not how it's used by non-Japanese to non-Japanese people. Because it's basically used to put a negative spin on other people's interest for Japan. It's usually done by projecting one's own set of beliefs of what is right and wrong onto another person. Seriously, who has the right to put up rules on how to conduct an interest and then force it on other people? It may annoy you, but it really can't harm you more than yourself are willing to tap into it by letting be annoyed. As long as it's not offending anyone there shouldn't be any negative with loving something or someone. I would much rather be annoyd if someone was obsessed with hating.

It's also funny when same people say how they like Japanese entertainment in all forms but are fast to press how much they appreciate other countries as well, as if they had a reason to clear themselves from being a target of their own accusations. It's ok, you can love whatever you like as much as you wish. Claiming to be moderate in their behaviour by adding other interests as well just crack me up. :lol

I love JDramas and I find Japanese women very attractive in every aspect from clothes to behaviour and speech. I find Japanese children extremely cute. I like Japanese architecture and Japanese high-tech and Japanese eye for beautiful whether it's people, nature, garden, offices, kitchens or designs in general. I love JPop and I like the Japanese language. How it can shift from being super soft spoken by a women to be totally different by a man just amazes me. Yeah I'm sure I would qualify for a JPH. :P

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 22:59

Kudos to you for the honest post. So, Kanin, have you been to Japan or are you planning on living there? Are you majoring in Japanese? Sorry for being nosy, I'd just like to know how much a self-confessed Japanophile is willing to dedicate his life to Japan.

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Post by eye » Dec 28th, '06, 23:09

Néa Vanille wrote:I think it's pretty obvious a few are based on media-influenced expectations of one another.
I think it's pretty obvious that "a few" means you have no real-world example to base your opinion on.
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Post by Kanin » Dec 28th, '06, 23:10

Néa Vanille wrote:Kudos to you for the honest post. So, Kanin, have you been to Japan or are you planning on living there? Are you majoring in Japanese? Sorry for being nosy, I'd just like to know how much a self-confessed Japanophile is willing to dedicate his life to Japan.
Oh thanks Néa!

No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though.

I have tried Kdrama but I didn't find it any special. It was cute but it didn't have the same effect on me.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 28th, '06, 23:20

Kanin wrote:
Néa Vanille wrote:Kudos to you for the honest post. So, Kanin, have you been to Japan or are you planning on living there? Are you majoring in Japanese? Sorry for being nosy, I'd just like to know how much a self-confessed Japanophile is willing to dedicate his life to Japan.
Oh thanks Néa!

No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though.

I have tried Kdrama but I didn't find it any special. It was cute but it didn't have the same effect on me.
I'm not bashing or anything - but how can you fully appreciate what you stated without ever having visited or learning the language...??!?

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 28th, '06, 23:23

eye wrote:
Néa Vanille wrote:I think it's pretty obvious a few are based on media-influenced expectations of one another.
I think it's pretty obvious that "a few" means you have no real-world example to base your opinion on.
And that, my friend, is where you'd be wrong. I have admittedly witnessed it on forums more often than in real life, though I do personally know 2 men (both friends of my father's) who came home from vacation married to a Thai girl and a Japanese girl respectively only to divorce them 7 months and a year later respectively after finding out they didn't quite live up to their expectations. Though I never heard the Thai girl husband's justification, I overheard the other one telling my father how disappointed he'd been at her interest in money and gifts and her apparent unwillingness to accept his opinions as though they were the only truth in the world.

That having said, just shut up. You accused me of implying something I never meant to imply (that any preference for Asian girls must be sick or twisted, which is very, very far from my actual opinion) and don't start a debate on whether or not such men exist or not - it's pointless. They do. Maybe more than you think and maybe fewer than I think, but exist they do doubtlessly.
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Post by Kanin » Dec 28th, '06, 23:31

jellybean wrote:
Kanin wrote:
Néa Vanille wrote:Kudos to you for the honest post. So, Kanin, have you been to Japan or are you planning on living there? Are you majoring in Japanese? Sorry for being nosy, I'd just like to know how much a self-confessed Japanophile is willing to dedicate his life to Japan.
Oh thanks Néa!

No I'm a lazy Japanophile. I haven't been to Japan and I don't plan to go either. Well that's due to time, cost and lots of other reasons as well. I haven't started to learn Japanese either. I'm really interested in learning Japanese though.

I have tried Kdrama but I didn't find it any special. It was cute but it didn't have the same effect on me.
I'm not bashing or anything - but how can you fully appreciate what you stated without ever having visited or learning the language...??!?
Depends on what your definition of fully appreciate is?

By saying you love Japanese women does not have to mean you slept with a majority of them.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 28th, '06, 23:48

Kanin wrote:
Depends on what your definition of fully appreciate is?

By saying you love Japanese women does not have to mean you slept with a majority of them.
Is there a correltion between loving Japanese women and sleeping with them in the first place? I'm not sure I get that analogy...

Anyway you stated:
I love JDramas and I find Japanese women very attractive in every aspect from clothes to behaviour and speech. I find Japanese children extremely cute. I like Japanese architecture and Japanese high-tech and Japanese eye for beautiful whether it's people, nature, garden, offices, kitchens or designs in general. I love JPop and I like the Japanese language.
- did you get that from watching Jdrama alone then I take it?

Do you think someone would honestly take you seriously if you started talking about how great these aspects of Japan were based on a TV show..?

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 28th, '06, 23:52

jellybean wrote:
I'm not bashing or anything - but how can you fully appreciate what you stated without ever having visited or learning the language...??!?
So says the person who just wasted $4000 on a 10 day trip to Japan when she doesn't know the language or any people there.

@nea

You may be surprised by this but your words are not original.

Do you remember a while ago I told you that in NYC there are a lot of white women (and black men for some reason, but only the ones that hate whites here) complaining about white men dating asian girls, and you said it was unlikely. Well, you're exactly like them. "You only want them because you think they are submissive little sluts". That's pretty much what they all say.

I think I know the reason why this is happening, and chances are you do too (and no humanitarianism is not it).

BTW memoirs of a geisha and japanese culture is not at all responsible for this since like 80% of the af/wm couples are between chinese girls not japanese. And I can promise you, japanese culture is not mainstream popular here, and chinese culture is definitely not popular at all.

Yes, there are those who fantasize about the "stereotypical submissive asian girl", but they are a very small minority. Just relax already. Getting mad only gives you wrinkles.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 28th, '06, 23:59

jellybean wrote:
Kanin wrote:
Depends on what your definition of fully appreciate is?

By saying you love Japanese women does not have to mean you slept with a majority of them.
Is there a correltion between loving Japanese women and sleeping with them in the first place? I'm not sure I get that analogy...

Anyway you stated:
I love JDramas and I find Japanese women very attractive in every aspect from clothes to behaviour and speech. I find Japanese children extremely cute. I like Japanese architecture and Japanese high-tech and Japanese eye for beautiful whether it's people, nature, garden, offices, kitchens or designs in general. I love JPop and I like the Japanese language.
- did you get that from watching Jdrama alone then I take it?

Do you think someone would honestly take you seriously if you started talking about how great these aspects of Japan were based on a TV show..?
I find it funny how you are willing to question my qualifications to have the nerve to find Japanese women beautiful. It's like you thought this was about science. Shouldn't you have enough intelligence to realise that people understand that actors and actresses are casted for a specific reason. People in JDramas are casted to be cute, beautiful or ugly if you wish. i.e. every Japanese women are beautiful. :roll

However if I find this and that interesting based on my influences shouldn't be any less valid whether I've actually visited Japan or not. If you have been to Japan and let's say met 10 women I congratulate you for having a big base to form your opinion on. But be aware there are always others who have bigger depth than you.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 00:05

@kotae: Oh, please, not you too. In case you haven't noticed, I'm getting extremely tired of having to justify every single joke I make, in the process of which I end up repeating myself a few billion times.

Can we all just relax for a while? I just made one stupid joke about a Japanophile getting married to a Japanese girl because of Memoirs of a Geisha. I was not the only one, in fact I wasn't even the one who started it. And even more in fact, I made that joke partly to make the thread more light-hearted. Yeah, it backfired.

So, Japanophiles who have unreasonable opinions on Japanese women. Do I think they exist? We all know they do, but I never once said that EVERY man who liked them was that way. I stated before that I knew why people liked Japanese girls and admitting to finding them attractive myself - did you not read that post? If I was a man, I'd likely want to date them myself for their beauty. There are plenty of reasons to be attracted to them without having to fetishize them beyond the norm or basing the attraction on sky castles. As it is, I'm a woman and attracted to Asian men first and foremost but do not consider myself an Asiaphile because I handle my preference reasonably and have a realistic view on them. Likewise, a man who is attracted to Asian women first and foremost isn't necessarily an Asiaphile, deluded, sick, twisted or any such things. I do, however, think there are Japanophiles (probably mostly male, but there are females as well) who live with their heads in the clouds with their racist opinions on Japanese people - that they are not the majority, I know. They exist, though, and those that do are a rightful object of ridicule. I guess we'll all agree there.

Another thing people don't seem to get: I don't mind white guys going out with Asian girls. NOT AT ALL. I am actually cheering for every white guy who gets married to a Japanese or Korean woman (for genuine reasons) because he does something that plays into my own cause: he helps create a multicultural environment in East Asia, a place where I'll likely end up living for at least a few years. I much prefer an East Asia where whites and Asian marry freely than a isolated East Asia where the idea is frowned upon. I wrote the same damn thing in the Korean boyfriend thread, too, about being happy that more Americans married Korean women. When I was in Korea, I actually helped some of the Israeli guys at my dorm to get dates because they were nice guys. I also tried to hook my brother up with a Korean girl, largely so he would bring her over more often and we could practice Korean. The sight doesn't bother me at all. I'm also a supporter of interracial couples in general, mostly because I'm having them myself and I welcome the consequences. White man with black, Hispanic, Asian woman; white woman with black, Hispanic, Asian man - it's all good in my book provided the meat of the relationship is affection and not racism.

Another thing is that every single one of these couples frees up Asian men and I generally prefer those and have only dated them for 2 years now. Playing in favour of my interests again, these couples do. Maybe I would feel jealous at the sight of a white man with an Asian girl if I wasn't way more interested in Asian men, who knows... but as it is, I actually like to see these couples for the aforementioned reasons. I really see no reason to bash me like that when I actually have a good opinion on most, if not all of you posters and see nothing wrong with your preferences and only have a problem with the extreme type which most of you don't seem to be. We actually agree, but for some reason people don't seem to understand that we do.
Last edited by Néa Vanille on Dec 29th, '06, 00:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 00:30

Néa Vanille wrote:So, Japanophiles who have unreasonable opinions on Japanese women. Do I think they exist? We all know they do, but I never once said that EVERY man who liked them was that way. I stated before that I knew why people liked Japanese girls and admitting to finding them attractive myself - did you not read that post? If I was a man, I'd likely be attracted to them myself. There are plenty of reasons to be attracted to them without having to fetishize them beyond the norm or basing the attraction on sky castles. As it is, I'm a woman and attracted to Asian men first and foremost. Likewise, a man who is attracted to Asian women first and foremost isn't necessarily an Asiaphile, deluded, sick, twisted or any such things. I do, however, think there are Japanophiles who live with their heads in the clouds with their opinions on Asian girls - that they are not the majority, I know. They exist, though, and those that do are a rightful object of ridicule. I guess we'll all agree there.
This was probably not to me, but anyway. The thing is, you can't possibly name a single person on these boards to be Japanophiles because this thing about internet is too anonymous. To me, Japanophile, Asiaphile or whatever is just a myth. By non-Japanese it's used in the sense to degrade another person. Sure there exists maniacs in all corners of the world but I would guess that the majority on these boards are just regular fans enjoying dramas.

Simply saying Japanese women are beautiful does not mean all Japanese women are. Loving JPop don't mean all bands are great and being addicted to JDramas don't mean you hail all to be fantastic. By the way this was not specifically to you.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 00:44

I agree with your post and to put your mind at ease, I didn't mean you, nor any other poster in this thread.

So, to get the thread on a more light-hearted track, have you ever dated a Japanese woman? I used to date a Japanese man about a year ago and he taught me a lot about Japanese culture at a time when I was very interested in it.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 00:51

kotaeshiranaihito wrote:
jellybean wrote:
I'm not bashing or anything - but how can you fully appreciate what you stated without ever having visited or learning the language...??!?
So says the person who just wasted $4000 on a 10 day trip to Japan when she doesn't know the language or any people there.
Where did I say I spent $4000? It was less than half of that amount - not that how much I spent is relevant in this thread. I spent time with two family friends who showed me round....for someone who contributed in my 'Holiday To Japan' thread you're a bit erratic aren't you.

to Kanin - I'm sorry I misunderstood where you were coming from. I didn't mean to offend you - I was just confused as to how you were able to express your love for these things without visiting Japan and seeing it for yourself through your own eyes. I didn't mean it to come across as hostile..

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 29th, '06, 01:02

jellybean wrote:
Firstly - I didn't spend anything near '$4000' - and secondly, I knew basic Japanese - enough to get by as a tourist and thirdly - when I was there I visited two family friends. So what point are you trying to make?
That you shouldn't look down on others for simply loving something (and not spending too much money on it), when you yourself spent an exorbitant amount of money on the same thing. Even if their love of something is extremely excessive, I think the ones that waste money to go to a place they themselves know little about is worse.

I don't understand why you're getting mad at me, when you made an entire thread just to berate a whole group of people-who in my opinion, you're no better than.

@nea

sorry, didn't realize you were making a joke. It sounded serious to me since you said that that kind of thing makes you mad. But if it's a joke, it's a joke. No point in talking about it anymore then.

Out of curiosity, how many languages do you know?
Last edited by kotaeshiranaihito on Dec 29th, '06, 01:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 01:04

jellybean wrote: to Kanin - I'm sorry I misunderstood where you were coming from. I didn't mean to offend you - I was just confused as to how you were able to express your love for these things without visiting Japan and seeing it for yourself through your own eyes.
Well confused or not. We are all basing our opinion on our limited channels of information. Where exactly do you set the line to be granted an opinion worthy of your standard? You can have worked in Japan for years and never been much engaged in the true society especially as a foreigner.

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Post by Ayulyn » Dec 29th, '06, 01:05

Im interested in everything about Japan, though I haven't been. I wouldn't kill someone over it, but I definitely love it enough to say that without even having visited.

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 01:11

kotaeshiranaihito wrote:Out of curiosity, how many languages do you know?
In order of proficiency:
German
Italian
English
French
Korean

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Dec 29th, '06, 01:14

Néa Vanille wrote:
kotaeshiranaihito wrote:Out of curiosity, how many languages do you know?
In order of proficiency:
German
Italian
English
French
Korean
Wow, not bad. Out of the asian languages why choose korean over japanese or chinese? Was there a specific reason, or was it a flip a coin kind of thing?

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 01:17

Perhaps she's Korean living in Germany.

Btw Nea, what band did she like, I'm from Sweden.

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Post by jellybean » Dec 29th, '06, 01:18

That you shouldn't look down on others for simply loving something (and not spending too much money on it), when you yourself spent an exorbitant amount of money on the same thing. Even if their love of something is extremely excessive, I think the ones that waste money to go to a place they themselves know little about is worse.

I don't understand why you're getting mad at me, when you made an entire thread just to berate a whole group of people-who in my opinion, you're no better than.
Again with the 'exorbitant amount of money' - holy cow you can't get over that I didn't actually spend that much money when I went can you..? Lol. Second of all - who are you to say that I 'wasted money' - I didn't waste any money...because I had an amazing holiday there :blink

And again - why did you contribute to the said thread if you were so against it in the first place..?

OK now on to your point about me being worse than those I am 'berating'. I was intrigued by Japanese culture BEFORE I went to Japan but that was due to documentaries that came on tv and the amazing films I had watched ever since I was little. That was what influenced my decision to go to Japan - which I finally did this previous November. I didn't claim to LOVE anything or know anything - hence the reason why I made that thread in the Travel section. So I still don't understand your point considering I do not claim to know everything about Japan in the first place....
Well confused or not. We are all basing our opinion on our limited channels of information. Where exactly do you set the line to be granted an opinion worthy of your standard? You can have worked in Japan for years and never been much engaged in the true society especially as a foreigner.
Maybe what I'm saying...that Japanophiles are in love with something ingenuine...you didn't answer my question about where you found your passion for Japan from - was it from Jdrama?

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Post by Néa Vanille » Dec 29th, '06, 01:22

I used to study Japanese, but then switched to Korean because I found the easy script more appealing. I taught myself English mostly by reading stories or forums and chatting, so I thought I would have much better luck being able to communicate in Korean than Japanese given how much easier it was to read and write Korean. Then, a bit more than a year ago, I met my Korean boyfriend and we immediately got very close, so he started tutoring me. I'm moving to Korea for at least a year in July, so right now I'm not too interested in learning Japanese or Chinese.

I'm going to start taking Chinese classes when I return, though. Maybe Japanese, too.

@Kanin: No, I'm not Korean. Does my avatar look so Korean? :lol No, I'm just German-Italian. And the band my friend loves so much is Kent.
Last edited by Néa Vanille on Dec 29th, '06, 01:25, edited 2 times in total.

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