Idols vs Real Actors - Alot of crappy dramas recently IMO.

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Idols vs Real Actors - Alot of crappy dramas recently IMO.

Post by Keeper of hells gate2 » Jul 2nd, '06, 02:08

I am really starting to question alot of the more recent dramas that we have been seeing. I am seeing alot of IMHO crap. Sayukii, Kurosagi, Attention Please, Glory Days, Gal Circle, The female lawer show, are and where terrible. Terrible acting and what seems more troubling is the overall plot and story just are not that good. Lets be honest here the two main actors in Kurosagi and Ueta Aya (maybe just a bad performance) from attention please have as much acting range as the JAV Adult Film Stars in Glory Days. I am not saying that all of the idols are not good actors Matusmoto Jen is a damn good actor, but some of these idols should never star in a drama or atleast not carry a drama. Just be singers and models. I am not sure what is with Japan and the whole Idol craze. Plenty of good Japanese Actors out their - to not have some of the stuff that is coming out recently. All of this is a worthless point if the drama writers continue to write award winning dramas like Gal Circle, Glory Days, and Sayukki :thumbdown:

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Post by milleu87 » Jul 2nd, '06, 02:11

there are bad drama and good drama season.

ryo was good in 1 litre of tears and so is sawajiri erika.

given time maybe they will improve

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Post by groink » Jul 2nd, '06, 02:31

Bottom line - Japanese idols are so strong in marketing, acting talent is secondary. Keep in mind the demographics... Idol fans love certain artists. Period. If an idol endorses firewood, fans will build fireplaces and stand in line for hours to buy the firewood. If an idol likes Cheeze Whiz, the KRAFT product will be sold out in days, and maybe fondoo will once again become a fad.

Japanese dramas is a marketing vehicle. Yeah we can hide behind ideology making the shows and the actors artforms. But when the dust settles down, the water is boiled ouf of it, and at the end of the day, the geinokai is nothing but a big huge marketing powerhouse. And the talent agenies are the ones running the whole show. Quality of talent? Doesn't matter. Plus, talent is really relative. It's like the old saying... One's trash is another's treasure.

--- groink
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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 2nd, '06, 02:39

i dont think either kurosagi or gal circle is bad at all, they are both very entertaining for what they are. why dont you look for things you LIKE? this to me is like the "opera" question - someone asked me if i liked opera and i said no, but i didnt explain why it bored the crap out of me because (drumroll) i dont like opera. you dont like silly dramas with idols and such, so why watch them? its easier just to watch the ones you like rather than expect them ALL to change, no?
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Post by usagi_on_the_moon » Jul 2nd, '06, 03:11

[quote="groink"]Bottom line - Japanese idols are so strong in marketing, acting talent is secondary. Keep in mind the demographics... Idol fans love certain artists. Period. If an idol endorses firewood, fans will build fireplaces and stand in line for hours to buy the firewood. If an idol likes Cheeze Whiz, the KRAFT product will be sold out in days, and maybe fondoo will once again become a fad.

[/quote

My thoughts exactly.

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Post by angeizahoy » Jul 2nd, '06, 03:32

groink wrote:Bottom line - Japanese idols are so strong in marketing, acting talent is secondary. Keep in mind the demographics... Idol fans love certain artists. Period. If an idol endorses firewood, fans will build fireplaces and stand in line for hours to buy the firewood. If an idol likes Cheeze Whiz, the KRAFT product will be sold out in days, and maybe fondoo will once again become a fad.

Japanese dramas is a marketing vehicle. Yeah we can hide behind ideology making the shows and the actors artforms. But when the dust settles down, the water is boiled ouf of it, and at the end of the day, the geinokai is nothing but a big huge marketing powerhouse. And the talent agenies are the ones running the whole show. Quality of talent? Doesn't matter. Plus, talent is really relative. It's like the old saying... One's trash is another's treasure.

--- groink
WORD.

at the end of the day, they're all pretty faces. singers who can't sing, actors who can't act. but nothing we can do about it, because those faces are what's in demand. those faces are rolling in the money. it's just how the industry is. the more popular a star is, the more the public demands for them, the more they spread themselves into other industries that just may not be cut out for them, but what do they care. just means they can rake in more money.

not to say all actors can't act, and all singers can't sing. but there's always some, and i guess lately it's just been booming.

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Post by Keeper of hells gate2 » Jul 2nd, '06, 04:04

nikochanr3 wrote:i dont think either kurosagi or gal circle is bad at all, they are both very entertaining for what they are. why dont you look for things you LIKE? this to me is like the "opera" question - someone asked me if i liked opera and i said no, but i didnt explain why it bored the crap out of me because (drumroll) i dont like opera. you dont like silly dramas with idols and such, so why watch them? its easier just to watch the ones you like rather than expect them ALL to change, no?
I do look for things I like and things I am not sure of (seen alot alot of dramas). Idols don't bother me if they can act Matsumoto jen or are in a secondary role. I mean look at this spring or summer 2006 season. Nothing was really good. The period piece with Nakama Yukie isn't bad, but its a period piece. Top Caster, Attention Please, Busu no Hitomi ni Koishiteru,Primadam,Shichinin no Onna Bengoshi,Bengoshi no Kuzu,Iryu,Fugoh Keiji 2,Kurosagi,Teru Teru Ashita,Machiben,Galcir,Machiben,Oishii Proposal. Oishi Proposal is decent. However, the others have horrible actors, Terrible Scripts or are sequels of shows that the orginal wasn't very good or the sequal isn't even near the orginal. The whole Doctor, flight attendent, Lawyer, News Caster, Cook HAVE BEEN DONE TO DEATH. The best drama I have seen all Season is the JSOTW Joou no Kyoushitsu - it was so refreshing to see something different and a little risky not the school setting (which has also been done to death), but the attitude plot and character. I had to double check that I was watching a Jdrama. The best thing about this site is the JSOTW. I am rarely dissapointed with the JSOTW, which are usually older series - something to think about.

Its not a question of finding what I like. Its a question of weather anything recently has anything I like or anything worth watching. I just go throw drama after drama and every once in awhile I find a Joou no Kyoushitsu, Gokusen, Summer Snow, Long Vacation, GTO, 1 litre of tears,etc that makes it worth while.

The acting thing doesn't worry me so much. Yeah, I understand the whole marketing thing agencies etc. What worries me is alot of the recent scripts and plot lines. Its like they are not coming up with anything new, but are just repeating the old shows with different actors and making them new shows - that worries me. Even if the shows are controlled by the agencies, marketing, and the networks, you would think that they can come up with some new ideas for shows.

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Post by groink » Jul 2nd, '06, 04:37

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:The acting thing doesn't worry me so much. Yeah, I understand the whole marketing thing agencies etc. What worries me is alot of the recent scripts and plot lines. Its like they are not coming up with anything new, but are just repeating the old shows with different actors and making them new shows - that worries me. Even if the shows are controlled by the agencies, marketing, and the networks, you would think that they can come up with some new ideas for shows.
Very VERY good point!!!!! Regarding another topic here, if the geinokai did in fact target markets outside of Japan, I'm quite sure things will change for the BETTER. As long as the dramas stay in Japan, things will just get worse. Speaking to many Japanese people in Japan, the way they see it there's absolutely no problem in the theme, the writing, the casting or the quality of the acting in these dramas. They're totally oblivious of how people outside of Japan see things. In other words, if a problem doesn't exist, there's nothing to fix.

I remember back in the 1990's and before when writers actually wrote original stories for the majority of dramas. That idea turned to sh*t in a heartbeat. Now that the manga-reading demographic has become the drama watching demographic, the TV networks believe that these people will watch the dramas because they're already familiar with the characters and storyline. In Japan, more people read manga (comic books) in their free time than non-fiction novels (books without pictures). Put that together with Japanese idols they love, and even the biggest pieces of cow dung drama will reach double-digit rating percentages.

And, we've had several polls conducted on D-Addicts in the past where it clearly showed that the star power casts a shadow over the story. Because dramas are announced months ahead of time, most Japanese drama fans have already set their drama watching schedule, based on the casting. Because Japanese TV is based on 3-month seasons, once you start watching a drama, you must commit to the drama from start to finish. Most of the dramas are renzoku (continuous) based, so you must start at the beginning. And, you can't jump into the middle of it like most American dramas. But most important - if you're truly a fanboy or fangirl, you WILL watch your favorite idols regardless of what it is.

It's insane. As a member of the minority, I've learned not to fight it and just go along with the flow. Or in my case, just stick with the jidaigeki and NHK morning dramas.

--- groink

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Post by milleu87 » Jul 2nd, '06, 05:03

groink you just had pointed out how i watch my jdrama.

basically i watched base on whose the actor and i'm not immnune to all the cute je boys but basically if i find the story crap i will admit but keep watching because my idol in there.

however i'm pretty through with all the manga adaption.there's a limit to that. right now i'm waiting for something that is going to be good because my mood is switching from kdrama to jdrama but i don't find anything good right now.

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Post by 6502inside » Jul 2nd, '06, 05:43

groink wrote:But when the dust settles down, the water is boiled ouf of it, and at the end of the day...
LOL, quite an interesting statement there, Groink :thumright:

I'm more of a fanboy than a serious drama watcher so I take full responsiblity for all inadequacies and humbly apologize for any inconvenience. Other than that, I have nothing to offer this thread :salut:

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 2nd, '06, 16:37

it's amazing to me (and kind of sad) how jaded some of you are. i have nothing else to add the conversation except that. so im going to go watch tv. =)
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Post by A.K » Jul 2nd, '06, 16:51

Bah. Attention Please makes me laugh. That's all I care. Cannot say about Kurosagi or Gal Cirlcle coz I'm not watching them.
Don't know if Aya Ueto is that bad (I don't think so, though) but i certainly know there are many worse than her (oh yes...). Plus, everybody knows that is watching. If you want good actors then you have to choose the dramas with good actors. As simple as that. For example I never watch any Morning Musume acting drama. I love them as entertainers but not as actresses so I pass. In that way I don't get disappointed.

I prefer a good plot+bad actor than bad plot+good actor.

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Post by Tenguman » Jul 2nd, '06, 17:13

Sometimes even a bad actor in the right role can work. For example, Sato Tamao, who is definately in that bad actor category, was incredibly funny in Omiai Kekkon. She fit the role perfectly and no acting was really required on her part, she could just act the way she always does when on TV, badly. :-)

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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 2nd, '06, 20:11

Honestly I agree. I'm tired of bad acting combined with the bad plot/screenplay. Like, how many more school dramas are they going to produce? And I wish they don't remake the old dramas into new because that certainly isn't orignal. All the stories now a days are based on the same thing: love and illness. How many dramas and drama specials are there about illnesses and combined with love? Most dramas are about love and actually, I'm tired of that. I liked Gal Circle because it went out of the "love" and "illness" loop. It really entertained me as it was a fresh plot. Attention Please was hilarious, I enjoyed it but...it felt like they used Ryo and Aya to just gain audiences.

Yes, honestly Kurosagi SUCKED. period. First it was good, I really liked it as it was new..then it got dragging and worse and worse and it's so popular, why? Cause of that Yamashita Tomohisa. Attention please, cause of Ueto Aya, Aibu Saki, and Nishikido Ryo. Gal Circle, Toda Erika, Satsukawa Aimi, Suzuki Emi, and Fujiki Naohito.Busukoi, Kato Shigeaki, Inagaki Goro, and Ebihara Yumi. Just them BEING in the drama, gets some viewership EVEN if the drama sucked. Busukoi, I thought the plot was fun so I watched it but Goro can not ACT. I still wonder, why don't they use new aspiring actors and actresses with talent.
Well looks sell, those idols are good looking and there's fans who just like them for eyecandy, well I wish they just keep that to their own fan magazines or their tv shows they appear, not dramas.
Reminds me of Gokusen 2, it SUCKED, seriously. the plot, lines were the same and it was unorignal and still, it hit sooo high. Because of those 4 guys, Mokomichi, Akanishi, Kamenashi, and Koike. At least Teppei and Kamenashi can act but Mokomichi and Akanishi...wth are they trying to appeal? They just play roles that are fit for them so they don't have to act.

Anyways, this is just what I think. I want new dramas with orignality, good actors and actresses that are new. I need some new style of acting and faces. I';m getting sick of seeing JE idols on screen in a way...well if it's good, I would mind as much but..omg no more dramas like gachibaka and nobuta...oh yea I remember watching a drama cause my favorite idol, Okada /junichi was in it...only once I kind of felt satisfied. The other drama of his...it sucked, I gave up on it. Some stories, no matter if I like the characters, it won't keep me watching. It just makes me mad.

Phew...I released all my thoughts I had about this from before.

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Post by x_XJules » Jul 2nd, '06, 20:16

hell hath no fury like a fan girl's scorn.

LoL, i agree the dramas haven't been too good recently. and granted, i haven't finished kurosagi yet, but i'm still enjoying it. i am a lover of yamapi but that's only like 50% of why i like that drama XD

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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 2nd, '06, 20:20

lol I wasn't pissed or anything, I just wanted to put down how I felt for this...cause I was discussing about this a while ago with some people.

Kurosagi, ichikawa yui just flicked me off and Tsurara gets on my nerves with her speeches and I hate P's character for treating her coldly nd all those 詐欺師terms..it just confuses me so much...

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Post by usagi_on_the_moon » Jul 3rd, '06, 04:29

yeah, i honestly haven't watched much this season. I am getting SICK of idols in the dramas that are just there so the girls can drool. The thing that bothers me, like what many people have said, is that there are very few original plots recently, and they don't use aspiring actors who are striving. Seems like the only way to become an aspiring actor/actress is to become an idol first, especially for key roles.
That's just my opinion though.

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Post by aa » Jul 3rd, '06, 05:02

usagi_on_the_moon wrote:yeah, i honestly haven't watched much this season. I am getting SICK of idols in the dramas that are just there so the girls can drool. The thing that bothers me, like what many people have said, is that there are very few original plots recently, and they don't use aspiring actors who are striving. Seems like the only way to become an aspiring actor/actress is to become an idol first, especially for key roles.
That's just my opinion though.
^ And for a long while I thought I was the only one thinking like this. It seems there's an influx of idols starring in dramas. I guess for networks it's the $$ factor.
Haven't seen much jdramas lately, except Rondo, which wasn't that bad, but good in not having to see an idol actor in the lead. Wait - isn't there an idol actor in it... that one tall guy... is he an idol star? (I think he was in Gokusen 2 )

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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 3rd, '06, 18:35

You mean Hayami Mokomichi? In the beginning, Rondo was good cause first Takenouchi Yutaka, one of my FAVORITE actor of all times was in it. If I liked dark dramas, then it would have been great.

Yea next seasons it'll have more leading roles with non idols hopefully. I'm excited for Kekkon Dekinai Otoko cause no idols and Abe Hiroshi is in it. Better be good.

Yeah, idols have a strong part in the TV field. Probably cause those JE guys president has like...sooo much money to even like...win over those stations? When I saw the casts for sapuri, I was like..not Kamenashi again -_-ll

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Post by Kakihara » Jul 3rd, '06, 18:55

Attention Please is the perfect dorama.

If the show doesn't have Aya Ueto in it, it probably isn't worth watching.
Last edited by Kakihara on Jul 3rd, '06, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by OvertheRainbow » Jul 3rd, '06, 19:07

Littleangel91356 wrote:lol I wasn't pissed or anything, I just wanted to put down how I felt for this...cause I was discussing about this a while ago with some people.

Kurosagi, ichikawa yui just flicked me off and Tsurara gets on my nerves with her speeches and I hate P's character for treating her coldly nd all those 詐欺師terms..it just confuses me so much...
Lol^^ It seems as if you're more mad at the fact that Tsurara and Kurosaki aren't a couple then the dramas with idols in them :lol

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Re: Idols vs Real Actors - Alot of crappy dramas recently IM

Post by vivaldi » Jul 3rd, '06, 19:25

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:I am really starting to question alot of the more recent dramas that we have been seeing. I am seeing alot of IMHO crap. Sayukii, Kurosagi, Attention Please, Glory Days, Gal Circle, The female lawer show, are and where terrible. Terrible acting and what seems more troubling is the overall plot and story just are not that good. Lets be honest here the two main actors in Kurosagi and Ueta Aya (maybe just a bad performance) from attention please have as much acting range as the JAV Adult Film Stars in Glory Days. I am not saying that all of the idols are not good actors Matusmoto Jen is a damn good actor, but some of these idols should never star in a drama or atleast not carry a drama. Just be singers and models. I am not sure what is with Japan and the whole Idol craze. Plenty of good Japanese Actors out their - to not have some of the stuff that is coming out recently. All of this is a worthless point if the drama writers continue to write award winning dramas like Gal Circle, Glory Days, and Sayukki :thumbdown:
ok

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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 4th, '06, 02:14

OvertheRainbow wrote:
Littleangel91356 wrote:lol I wasn't pissed or anything, I just wanted to put down how I felt for this...cause I was discussing about this a while ago with some people.

Kurosagi, ichikawa yui just flicked me off and Tsurara gets on my nerves with her speeches and I hate P's character for treating her coldly nd all those 詐欺師terms..it just confuses me so much...
Lol^^ It seems as if you're more mad at the fact that Tsurara and Kurosaki aren't a couple then the dramas with idols in them :lol
haha part of it was that. It just kept on dragging and that Yui girl kept bothering them. lol sometimes I am interested in the couple relationships more than the actual drama. I was wondering about aya's character and Ryo's character and such on attention please, I was like "Are they going to hook up or no??"

Yea but the storyline's more important, next season better be good.

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Post by aa » Jul 4th, '06, 07:07

Littleangel91356 wrote:You mean Hayami Mokomichi?
^ :thumright: Yup that's his name. Is he an idol star/part of some boy group ?

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Post by milleu87 » Jul 4th, '06, 07:11

hayami mokomichi is not part of the je boys or some boys group. however i'm not sure if he's an idol or what.

i like watching brother beat where he's in that series.it's awesome

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Post by x_XJules » Jul 4th, '06, 07:23

Littleangel91356 wrote:
OvertheRainbow wrote:
Littleangel91356 wrote:lol I wasn't pissed or anything, I just wanted to put down how I felt for this...cause I was discussing about this a while ago with some people.

Kurosagi, ichikawa yui just flicked me off and Tsurara gets on my nerves with her speeches and I hate P's character for treating her coldly nd all those 詐欺師terms..it just confuses me so much...
Lol^^ It seems as if you're more mad at the fact that Tsurara and Kurosaki aren't a couple then the dramas with idols in them :lol
haha part of it was that. It just kept on dragging and that Yui girl kept bothering them. lol sometimes I am interested in the couple relationships more than the actual drama. I was wondering about aya's character and Ryo's character and such on attention please, I was like "Are they going to hook up or no??"

Yea but the storyline's more important, next season better be good.
i really hope that wasn't a spoiler right there.... :cry:

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Post by groink » Jul 4th, '06, 07:36

milleu87 wrote:hayami mokomichi is not part of the je boys or some boys group. however i'm not sure if he's an idol or what.
More likely he is an idol, based on Google searches. But keep in mind that fans make someone an idol. Fortunately, he's not a part of Johnny's Jimusho - one talent agency that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the existence of fanboys/fangirls. Rather, he's managed by Ken-On Group - an ageny that is more focused on the artists' real talents than forcing their clients to keep an idol image and a "Jack of all trades" kind of talento, such as Joh*cough*nny's.

http://www.ken-on.co.jp/index.html

--- groink

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Post by lilswtangel » Jul 4th, '06, 07:41

x_XJules wrote:hell hath no fury like a fan girl's scorn
I couldn't have phrased that any better, Jules :P

and I believe groink has made some very valid points about choosing to watch a drama based on the casting.

the casting is one method I use to decide which drama to watch next. I'll continue watching it, regardless if the story sucked or not. one reason is get a glimpse of the idols and the other being that I don't like to start what I can't finish.

another method I use (for the earlier dramas) would be the reviews & ratings left by the viewers. For Jdramas, I tend to read all the comments over at jdorama but I usually get mixed reviews because everyone has their own understandings & views.

...to each their own.

now as for the manga-based jdramas, I turn to them to see how the story would unfold in reality, but I'm usually left with just idolizing the leads and disappointment in the plot itself. it's hard to find a win/win situation here.

promotion is all about the pretty faces.......and that's what increases the ratings of the show.
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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 4th, '06, 07:45

OvertheRainbow wrote:
haha part of it was that. It just kept on dragging and that Yui girl kept bothering them. lol sometimes I am interested in the couple relationships more than the actual drama. I was wondering about aya's character and Ryo's character and such on attention please, I was like "Are they going to hook up or no??"

Yea but the storyline's more important, next season better be good.
i really hope that wasn't a spoiler right there.... :cry:[/quote]

No no it isn't a spoiler, that's why I intended to say that. Like even before, I was wondering if they were going to get together or not and kurosagi, it was kinda obvious from the beginning a love triangle was going to occur.

lol that was kinda stupid for me to write that damn post now. Anyways, yeah, groink is right on what he states. JE would not exist without the fans and Japanese clutural thinking. JE wouldn't suceed here in the US at ALL.

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Post by groink » Jul 5th, '06, 23:28

Littleangel91356 wrote:lol that was kinda stupid for me to write that damn post now. Anyways, yeah, groink is right on what he states. JE would not exist without the fans and Japanese clutural thinking. JE wouldn't suceed here in the US at ALL.
Yes... I think most people will agree by now that Japanese dramas do not sell themselves, but rather the idols sell the Japanese dramas...

... which is why, once again, the Jdrama DVD market will not work in America.

In America, the geinokai has no idea how to market their Japanese idols - especially when they have to compete with America's own idols. It's one thing that the geinokai continue to use their idols to push the dramas. And, once again, the formula works for them. But the geinokai is also smart enough to know that this formula won't work worth a damn in America. America does not live off of idols. They don't use idols for marketing purposes. You very rarely see them in commercials. As for comic books - despite the sub-50 percent reading comprehension in America, comic books do not influence TV entertainment.

As Japan continues to use the idol/manga formula, there is no way in hell that these idol/manga dramas will sell in America. The STORY must sell to Americans. Bobby in Missouri doesn't know who the hell these Johnny's are. Or give a crap about Ueto Aya being the CM Queen.

So for most of you who still have that little bit of hope for region-1 English-subbed Jdrama DVDs to hit America, your best interest would be for the geinokai to stop the idol/manga formula, and actually start writing great storylines, and with no references to Japanese pop culture.

--- groink

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Post by Jenden » Jul 6th, '06, 00:17

I won't get into the debate as to which shows are good or not as thats all really a matter of personal preference. I will say though that no matter how bad some of the jdramas recently may be, all I have to do is flip on American TV for about 30 seconds before I realize that they could be much, much worse. Yes, they need more originality, yes they need more emphasis on plot and story instead of idols, but I still find myself enjoying the vast majority of them (then again I consider myself a dorama whore and will watch anything I can get my hands on)

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Post by K.T.Tran » Jul 6th, '06, 03:23

A.K wrote:Bah. Attention Please makes me laugh. That's all I care
Don't know if Aya Ueto is that bad (I don't think so, though) but i certainly know there are many worse than her (oh yes...)
I feel the same way. I felt Attention Please was a fun filled ride full of laughs and anticipation for the next ep to come. I also liked this because I got to see Aya give comedy a shot and I thought she did a very good job of it. She isn't a bad actress I think. Young and still working at it. She's done many different types of roles and Action is one she still gotta work at I think. Her role as Azumi was good, but not perfect. Do want to see her play roles like Shibasaki Kou (roles that makes her look like a b*tch) and also I wanna see her play the bad guy role :mrgreen: Just want to see her full potential as an actress
ImageAya Kawaii :wub:

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Post by chsaf » Jul 8th, '06, 12:35

i suppose attention please and kurosagi arent all that bad, they were fun-dramas, we din really need to use our brains to understand the stories...brother beat was nice too. total eye-candy for viewers like me, and teru teru ashita was a bit weird/unbelievable but overall an okay drama, too.

u cant get those good dramas of yesteryear anymore,like maero attack,long vacation, love revolution, beach boys, GTO etc cos all the actors have "matured" and cant play high school roles anymore. yup i belong to those times, wouldnt miss any of the shows and religiously watched them everyday after school so could i never really like the new faces of j-tv but i guess im slowly warming up to them.

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Post by milleu87 » Jul 9th, '06, 08:04

chsaf,understood your feeling totally. old drama are better. good storyline + cute actors.

you're from msia? me too.i used to watch japanese drama on weekend. ice world,long vacation,gto,with love,beach boys,love revolution and so on. i miss those days. right now if i come across a really good jdrama i'm so happy.

currently watching kizarasu cats eye,brother beat,tiger and dragon,iwgp and yoshitsune. really great jdrama all of those.

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Post by Kumaxell » Jul 9th, '06, 23:11

I admit I'm in the fanboy/fangirl category. I watch a drama based on it's casting. If I see Yamashita Tomohisa's name is in it, I'll watch it just for the hell of it. If the drama is as good as Nobuta wo Produce, I would watch it from beginning to end and twice over. But if it sucks, I would fast forward to every part where YamaP appears. Simple as that.

As for Kurosagi, it sucked up to episode 5. Why? Because the scams are boring and there is no subplot to keep me going. I fast forwarded. But I stayed with it and reaped the award. Somehow, the character Tsurara became less annoying. And, most importantly, YamaP's acting improved by leaps and bounds. He finally grew into his character. By the time the last episode rolled around, I was craving for more Kurosagi.

If there is no pretty face in a Jdrama, I do not watch it. I don't care how good the plot is.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 10th, '06, 00:30

you all realize that are talking abotu attention please and kurosagi that this topic is a forum to specifically bash dramas casting people like that. dont you?
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Post by PhilsterT » Jul 10th, '06, 01:43

I keep hearing, "Well, if I turn on American TV I can see crap in seconds." Can someone enlighten me on all the American crap right now, because, it seems, that for those who have their heads wrapped around Jdrama that maybe they can't find quality American shows. I don't care how hard you try, American TV has quality shows. American TV is on the same level as Japanese TV: both have their own dung.

Just some shows to keep on eye on if you arn't already: Arrested Developement, The Office, Band of Brothers, Entourage. Those into emo: Gilmore Girls, One Tree Hill, Everwood...

Now, the first three I can back up...the other three I hear from word of mouth.
you all realize that are talking abotu attention please and kurosagi that this topic is a forum to specifically bash dramas casting people like that. dont you?
Okay then, to add more to please you: Gokusen sucked, Home and Away sucked, SOS was okay at best, Koukou Kyoushi sucked as much as Gokusen did, Rocket Boys sucked, Food Fight had just a pathetic story, Star no Koi was mildly entertaining at best...

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 10th, '06, 02:33

PhilsterT wrote:I keep hearing, "Well, if I turn on American TV I can see crap in seconds." Can someone enlighten me on all the American crap right now, because, it seems, that for those who have their heads wrapped around Jdrama that maybe they can't find quality American shows. I don't care how hard you try, American TV has quality shows. American TV is on the same level as Japanese TV: both have their own dung.

Just some shows to keep on eye on if you arn't already: Arrested Developement, The Office, Band of Brothers, Entourage. Those into emo: Gilmore Girls, One Tree Hill, Everwood...

Now, the first three I can back up...the other three I hear from word of mouth.
you all realize that are talking abotu attention please and kurosagi that this topic is a forum to specifically bash dramas casting people like that. dont you?
Okay then, to add more to please you: Gokusen sucked, Home and Away sucked, SOS was okay at best, Koukou Kyoushi sucked as much as Gokusen did, Rocket Boys sucked, Food Fight had just a pathetic story, Star no Koi was mildly entertaining at best...
dont get on my case, there are people here agreeing that j dramas rely too much on idols and thats why they suck, and excluding the idols THEY like. thats all is ay. where did i say something that required you telling me more things that suck?

myself, i LIKE kurosgi, i LIKE gal circle, and things i dont like that feature actors i dont like, i stay away from, rather than watch them, and whine endlessly.

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Post by groink » Jul 10th, '06, 03:23

Well, I for one do not place any value on the opinions of the members here when they say American TV sucks. I just consider the demographics of the members and judge for myself the credibility of the opinions on that matter. American TV is a total reciprocal of Asian TV, so it is very clear what the differences are, and why a community that favor Asian TV and its idol packaging will look at American TV as being very bad.

So don't be concerned about the anti-American TV rant. Again, consider the community you're reading it in.

--- groink

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Post by Lowest » Jul 10th, '06, 13:30

I'm still holding out hope for something as good as Densha Otoko this year.. I don't think that lack of good dramas has happened recently, I think every year there is only one or two good dramas to watch. At the moment I'm only watching Kurosagi, which isn't as good as I hoped; I'm only really watching it now because I've seen most of the episodes and want to see the ending. Apart from that I don't think I've finished a drama from this year.. not got past episode 1 of Saiyuuki or #2 of Gal Cirle.

Thankfully there are still a lot of dramas I haven't watched, so I can still watch the good ones. At the moment though I'm really just watching loads of movies.

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Post by indokid » Jul 10th, '06, 13:43

how bout iryu?
show some love for the best drama last season.. ok maybe im biased cos im part of the iryu subtitling team
but really.. i watched all the j-dramas last season and iryu has the best story of them all imo
and those who have finished watching iryu may agree... episode 10 of iryu is the one of the BEST episode of all dramas I've ever watched... i won't spoil anything... this drama reminds me the reason why i started watching japanese dramas at first place

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Post by chiyuffie » Jul 10th, '06, 14:02

I like Attention Please. It's really funny or it might just be Aya Ueto's acting that makes it hilarious. It's true that some idols can't act but if you think about it, most people watch dramas with actors they like rather than those who aren't so famous or aren't idols. I personally like the ones with major celebrities because they're so pretty to look at. Yes, that might be a bad thing but it sells. I can't stop my eyes from staring at the screen when there's someone glowing on it. I agree that there are many actors/actresses that are better suited for the roles but companies need people who can sell the product.

Over the recent years, some dramas have lack that x-factor to make a drama good. Sure it could be the actors but then again, it could be that the stories are becoming more dull. There's a lot of repetition like cancer or car accidents. You tend to expect certain things. Ah crap...I forgot what I was trying to say. Ahaha *submit**

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Post by Kumaxell » Jul 10th, '06, 14:15

I agreed with Groink on demographic. A drama is as good as the demographic it targets. In that regards, idol actors/actresses target the younger audience. Their dramas tend to be linear and formulaic in order to show them in the best possible light. Good vs Evil. Boy get the Girl. Their dramas are supposed to bring light-hearted entertainment.

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Post by auroragb » Jul 10th, '06, 15:36

watched about 20 of the dramas in the past two seasons. (basically all the c-subbed and e-subbed dramas)

historically going thru the jdorama lists, winter and spring are the weaker seasons. 2006 was no exception. Most were watchable, but maybe one or two will make it my top ten list of the year.

My faves were:
Kami wa Saikoro wo Furanai - Good exploration of a "second chance" premise (if you don't like sci-fi concepts, stay away)
Byakuyakou - The first ep is REALLY worth watching for it's power. Rest of the series was good, but not as powerful as the first ep. Probabably should have been a 2 part special instead
Teru Teru Ashita - A heartwarming story of a town that heals your soul. The last ep tried to wrap too quickly and left inconsistancies and
Kuitan - First couple of episodes were HILARIOUS. But settled into a routine towards middle. It sorely needed a recurring villain, the latter episodes lacked contrast that a recurring villain could have provided
---
just off the list
Iryu - it was a very good series, but it just lacked something... Maybe something to offset a slightly preachy tone
Jdrama Chinese fansub index 2006 | 2007

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Post by PhilsterT » Jul 10th, '06, 15:55

you all realize that are talking abotu attention please and kurosagi that this topic is a forum to specifically bash dramas casting people like that. dont you?
dont get on my case, there are people here agreeing that j dramas rely too much on idols and thats why they suck, and excluding the idols THEY like. thats all is ay. where did i say something that required you telling me more things that suck?
I couldn't understand what the heck you were trying to say in your first post--I thought it was something along the lines of, "You know you're only talking about two dramas." So, then, I added more in to make it fair game. What were you trying to say?

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 10th, '06, 16:10

PhilsterT wrote:
you all realize that are talking abotu attention please and kurosagi that this topic is a forum to specifically bash dramas casting people like that. dont you?
dont get on my case, there are people here agreeing that j dramas rely too much on idols and thats why they suck, and excluding the idols THEY like. thats all is ay. where did i say something that required you telling me more things that suck?
I couldn't understand what the heck you were trying to say in your first post--I thought it was something along the lines of, "You know you're only talking about two dramas." So, then, I added more in to make it fair game. What were you trying to say?
basically there are a lot of people agreeing with the contention of this post, which is kind of that THEIR dramas suck too. its like "yeah, i agree idol dramas suck, but not aya ueto, shes great!" or, "i agree but kurosgai is so cool!!"

its so strange to me.....
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Post by Kakihara » Jul 10th, '06, 16:26

The bottom line is that any drama, movie, commercial, picture, keychain, t-shirt, mousepad, etc. with Ueto Aya falls into the "Great" category.

Yes, even Koukou Kyoshi.
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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 10th, '06, 19:07

nikochanr3 wrote:
basically there are a lot of people agreeing with the contention of this post, which is kind of that THEIR dramas suck too. its like "yeah, i agree idol dramas suck, but not aya ueto, shes great!" or, "i agree but kurosgai is so cool!!"

its so strange to me.....
ohh I get you, like when they say "Gokusen sucked" but Matsujun's Hana Yori Dango is the best!! Like that? I liked Gokusen cause it was meant for pure fun for the 1st one*I didn't give for the idols, I didn't know them* but then it's a idol drama and some people hate it cause it's soo simular to gokusen...hope my boss my hero doesn't gear towards the 'using idols but bad plot' category.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 10th, '06, 20:47

Nakayama Yukie is really the best exemple. She can't act, she can't sing... it's terrible.

The part of Ueto Aya is mostly based on overacting in "attention please" so I guess nobody ask her to really act. She fits the part or the part was measure made for her. It's not a drama that will remain as a great drama, just watchable.

I turned mostly to old dramas now.

I think sayuuki was for kids so everybody here might be to old for that one. :)

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Post by Kumaxell » Jul 11th, '06, 18:59

In your opinion, what makes a person a good actor/actress?
I'm really curious because some say idols can't act or they are "over-acting." What criteria is use to measure them? Who, in your opinion, is a good actor/actress and in what drama did him/her win you over?
Last edited by Kumaxell on Jul 11th, '06, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by prismatic_star » Jul 11th, '06, 19:09

Beware the admiration of fangirls.

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Post by groink » Jul 11th, '06, 19:51

Kumaxell wrote:In your opinion, what makes a person a good actor/actress?
I'm really curious because some say idols can't act or they are "over-acting." What criteria is use to measure them? Who, in your opinion, is a good actor/actress and in what drama did him/her win you over?
I'll take a stab at this...

The problem I see with idols is that in every role he plays, he basically plays himself. Like someone mentioned earlier, the roles today are created to fit the persona of the idol, rather than requiring the idol to become the character. Many of these shows, such as Gokusen, Nobuta wo Produce, GTO, etc. suffer from this. The people who are at fault for this are the talent agencies. Agencies like Johnny's Jimsho do NOT train boys to transform themselves into different people. They're trained to read and memorize their lines. That's it! I find this amazing because I'm a huge fan of 1950's and 1960's chanbara movies. And the acting in these films are fantastic! But that was before the talent agencies took over who gets to act in TV shows and movies. As the talent agencies continue to provide little to no thespian training to their students, the pool of actors who can actually act is getting smaller. Of course, you'll always have a few of those actors who are REALLY actors with years of schooling, but they're becoming rare (and somewhat less attractive to producers and fans.)

But at the same time, the fanboys and fangirls are basically fine with this. Remember that what makes an idol is 100-percent likeability of the person. Idol status has absolutely NOTHING to do with the person's skills. All a fanboy/girl needs is a photo of the artist, and *BOOM* he becomes an idol. There are actually idols out there that are purely created from teen magazines, and have never issued a CD, been on a TV drama, or even make an appearance on a variety show. OMFG!!!! He likes kittens!!!! *ORGASMIC SCREEEEEEEEEEEM*

And it isn't just limited to idols either. Even established Japanese actors have a problem. For example, take non-idol Sorimachi Takashi... HOTMAN - he's playing Takashi. GTO - Takashi. Wonderful Life - Takashi. Or Eguchi Yosuke... Throughout the 1990's, he played the same style of character - a bungling idiot with long hair. Even Fukuyama Masaharu - exact same guy in every drama he's been in.

My idea of a great actor (males and females included) is when he can leave his real self in his trailor and create a totally different person each and every time. I prefer method actors myself seeing I was brought up watching some of the greats like Paul Newman, Dustin Hoffman and Al Pachino. My favorite Japanese actors of today and yesterday include: Takashima Reiko, Takekura Ken, Watanabe Ken, Nishida Toshiyuki, Kitaoka Chiezo, Kuroki Hitomi, Takenouchi Yutaka, Naito Takashi, Tsugawa Masahiko... All of these actors have at one time or another really impressed me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_acting

Here's a story I really like... During the filming of Marathon Man, Dustin Hoffman had to play a scene where his character had to really look wasted. Being Dustin, he researched different methods he could try to create that effect. He decided to purposely not to sleep for several days. A few days later, he walks onto the set looking like he's about to pass out. Looking like s**t, his co-star Lawrence Olivier looked at him and asked if he was alright. Dustin told Lawrence he hasn't slept for several days. Lawrence asked why, and Dustin told him it was so that he could play the role. With his British accent, Lawrence said, "Try acting, dear boy!" :lol

--- groink
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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 12th, '06, 02:24

Kakihara wrote:The bottom line is that any drama, movie, commercial, picture, keychain, t-shirt, mousepad, etc. with Ueto Aya falls into the "Great" category.

Yes, even Koukou Kyoshi.
she is the spokesperson for my wife company. She is Japanda. (She dresses as a panda.). Yes, she is the JAPANda. its silly but cute.
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Post by Ruroshin » Jul 12th, '06, 02:50

nikochanr3 wrote:
Kakihara wrote:The bottom line is that any drama, movie, commercial, picture, keychain, t-shirt, mousepad, etc. with Ueto Aya falls into the "Great" category.

Yes, even Koukou Kyoshi.
she is the spokesperson for my wife company. She is Japanda. (She dresses as a panda.). Yes, she is the JAPANda. its silly but cute.
LOL! for some reason Japanda just cracks me up :lol

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Post by Toritorisan » Jul 12th, '06, 03:41

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:The whole Doctor, flight attendent, Lawyer, News Caster, Cook HAVE BEEN DONE TO DEATH.
I've been watching Jdramas for about 12 years now and I have to agree with the statement above. Lately, I've been losing interest because it seems that the same types of storylines are being recycled, just with new actors. For me, I don't mind watching those "career" genre type of storylines, but I wish they would choose different and maybe unique careers and not have a lawyer drama like every season! Some of my favorite dramas that fall in this category are "Nagura Onna" (the one where Wakui Emi becomes the boxing trainer) and "Good Luck" (not the Kimu Taku one, but the one where Matsumoto Akiko inherits the pachinko parlor from her dad). I didn't think Kurasagi was too bad because it was my first time watching a drama about swindlers, but I didn't care too much for YamaP's cosplay of the week (kinda cheesy, but I guess fan service too~!)

Actually, my glory days of drama fall in the late nineties where it seems there was more variety with dramas aired. There was the really soappy dramas like Hoshi no Kinka and Tomodachi no Koibito, controversial dramas like Majou no Jouken, love comedies like Long Vacation, human dramas like Konna Koi no Hanashi, fantasy ones like Tengoku no Kiss and then your typical career dramas like Odoru Daisosasen (these are all my faves by the way). :P

In terms of acting, lots of my favorite actors and actresses are both veterans and up and coming. Personally I like dramas that have a good balance of this in the cast. One of my more recent faves, Lunch no Joou had a good balance of veteran stars like Eguchi Yosuke, Tsutsumi Shinichi and then new comers like YamaP, Tsumabuki Satoshi, etc. But it seems lately with drama casts is you get either or, no combination (and it might be due to budget reasons too!) I can understand why some people may criticize idols, but for me I really can't say because some idols improve over the years. I remember when I first watched Yamada Takayuki in Koi ga Shitaix3 and Churasan and thought he was such an awkward actor, but he's really grown over the years and is one of my fave actors now.

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Post by mizune » Jul 12th, '06, 04:31

groink wrote: I'll take a stab at this...
...
To counter some of what you've said, I don't really think the talent agencies are necessarily to blame and I don't think this "crappy drama syndrome" is nearly as bad as some ppl seem to think.

There are actually a lot of ppl in Johnny's stable that have explored a range of different roles, and done pretty well at it. Everybody always raves about Kimura's performances in roles where he performs in roles that are just variations off of the same character, but I think he just becomes the sacrificial anode for such criticism because he's so popular. Just within SMAP itself, you have two other members who have convincingly played a multitude of dissimilar roles in their careers: Nakai Masahiro and Kusanagi Tsuoyshi. I can name two other Johnny's members that have played a range of roles (including relatively risky, "non-idol"ish ones) very well: both halves of Kinki Kids, Domoto Tsuyoshi and Koichi. Somewhat overshadowed by Matsumoto Jun (who so far has followed a similar lightning rod path as Kimura) in Arashi is Ninomiya Kazuya, who has played in roles requiring him to be stupid and comical to serious and intense--and he's done all very convincingly.

Although I'd like to say something about the other major idol factory, Hello!Project, let's face it... despite all the pushing and opportunities Up Front has given them, they haven't been nearly as effective in the tv drama market. Why? Some may say it's because of the power of fangirls vs fanboys, but I honestly think it's because... well, they stink... overall, and almost as a general rule... :fear: and it's that lack of skill that makes it hard for them to get roles in dramas. By comparison, Johnny's DOES have depth of talent, which is another reason why they can command such power in the industry... ^_^;;;

What I'm trying to get at is that those who spout that idols can't act as a general rule just aren't looking hard enough. They're out there, but you can't expect every idol to do well in it, just as you can't expect every Joe Schmoe off the street to be able to perform. Improvement comes with experience and how else are you going to get experience if you don't actually act in anything?

Anyways, what's the harm in always playing the same type of role if you are good at it? You may not be able to claim a range of acting ability, but does that make you any less of an actor? It's like Harrison Ford, who I think is a great actor in the roles he takes, but... whoops... most of the roles he plays are kinda the same type of character, so what exaclty does that mean? He ISN'T a good actor? Or what about Cary Grant? Jimmy Stewart? Humphery Bogart? Katherine Hepburn? You can blame the studio system for the fact that they played similar roles for the majority of their careers, but does that make them any less convinving, appealing, or successful?

I believe any issues ppl see in perceived decline in dramas being the result of acting skills of idolsis unfounded. Idols have other "responsibilites" besides acting. It isn't necessarily the responsibility of talent agencies to train their stables to be pure actors. It depends on the forte of each talent agency. For some, like Johnny's, they are supposed to be all-around entertainers -- as close to the modern day equivalent of vaudvillian entertainers as I can think of. For others, modeling and acting are their forte, so they will try to get them trained in those aspects. Yes, idols will get more breaks b/c of their popularity, and maybe they aren't as good as "real" actors, but even the best actors can't save a mediocre script. Whether or not roles are written for idols or not isn't the issue (Kimura Takuya is the proof that you can make successful, and even meaningful dramas by playing the similar characters well). It still boils down to writing stories that are GOOD. And that is a whole heck of a lot harder when you have a broadcast schedule that requires you to come up with 5-7 nights of new programming every 3 months... If you have an interesting story or concept and it's just not played well by the actor, then you've got an argument, but even the worst stories can't be saved by the best actors. I think that's the biggest contention.

What makes a drama "crappy" anyways? That ultimately depends on the viewer. Younger viewers have different preferences than older viewers and everybody watches TV for different reasons. I bet if you were to compare the demographics of ppl who are complaining about the quality of todays dramas vs. the quality of older dramas, you'll find the ppl who are unhappy are mostly those who are both older, and have been watching dramas for a long time (and most of these dramas have been subbed and as a result pre-filtered for their quality amid the rest of the seasonal offerings).

It isn't so much that the series today have crappy storylines and bad acting, as it's been seen before by many and ooo, the power of nostalgia (ahhh... the good ol' days... apple pie, gasoline that cost less than a dollar per gallon, the certainty of who those damn commies were... :roll: ). But for others, it's still new, it's entertainting, and there's nothing at all wrong with it.

As for me, I watch some things, I don't watch others. I don't expect to like everything (or even anything) in a season, but if there is something for me to like, I'll like it. I don't need to analyze and question what I find interesting/entertaining. After all, television is a medium for passive entertainment, and if you don't like my dark cave, go find your own. If I don't like your dark cave, no big deal... I'll go out hiking instead...

I'll leave any other arguments and rants to nikochanr3 b/c I agree with the spirit of everthing he's said so far (even if I don't necessarily agree with his taste in dramas :p )...

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 12th, '06, 06:03

mizune wrote:Anyways, what's the harm in always playing the same type of role if you are good at it? You may not be able to claim a range of acting ability, but does that make you any less of an actor? It's like Harrison Ford, who I think is a great actor in the roles he takes, but... whoops... most of the roles he plays are kinda the same type of character, so what exaclty does that mean? He ISN'T a good actor? Or what about Cary Grant? Jimmy Stewart? Humphery Bogart? Katherine Hepburn? You can blame the studio system for the fact that they played similar roles for the majority of their careers, but does that make them any less convinving, appealing, or successful?
Yes, why not in a way, the main problem is when they're not good at it like Inagaki Goro or Nakama Yukie. But even when they're quite good at it like Kimu Taku, after a few dramas I got tired of seeing him play exactly the same part following the same path along the storyline. You can almost tell at wich episod he's going to fail and when he's going to teach everybody about "never giving up in life" :glare:

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Post by groink » Jul 12th, '06, 08:14

mizune wrote:To counter some of what you've said, I don't really think the talent agencies are necessarily to blame and I don't think this "crappy drama syndrome" is nearly as bad as some ppl seem to think.
You're right that what we're seeing isn't a bad thing. Like others have mentioned before, it only appears to be really bad because EVERYTHING is available as a result of P2P and direct downloading. However, and this is my own opinion and taste, the dramas that do get fansubbed are those that tickle the fancy of most fanboys/girls because, for the most part, the fansubbers ARE fanboys/girls. There are still the good old-fashioned style dramas I'm accustomed to watching - things like Wataru Seken wa Oni Bakari, asadora/yorudora, and many of the jidaigeki and other period dramas. But none of these are ever considered for fansubbing because they're not appealing to the fansubbers. That's basically why it APPEARS that most things uploaded to D-Addicts are fanboy/girl trash. The fansubbers are indirectly affecting the popularity of dramas throughout the Internet world.

One example: Jukunen Rikon. This had the second highest viewershp ratings in Japan during Autumn 2005 (19.2). Great casting, and great storyline. And it beat out other D-Addicts favorites like Brother Beat and Kiken na Aneki. But despite all that, 1) none of the fansub groups picked up on the series, which 2) caused this series to receive NO votes (other that mine) on last year's voting for best Jdrama of 2005 on D-Addicts.

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_26414.htm

As for my opinion on the talent agencies. I stand behind what I said earlier. It's the American influence coming out of me because I believe the BIG difference is that the art of acting is academic in the west (not specific to just the US), while in the East it's just entertainment. The Japanese artists rely on their talent agencies to prefect their acting, while in the west it is strongly recommend that artists actually attend university study and also study under great acting coaches like Lee Strasberg. I believe that by avoiding the Japanese talent agencies and instead attend a acting school with full focus on acting, the artist will turn out to be a better actor.

This is what I hate about the geinokai... A potential artist shouldn't be forced to set his entire life's success on the geinokai system. He should be able to study acting on his own, work as an independant actor, and make the talent agency an employee of the actor. Instead, Japan prefers that all artists join a talent agency as an employee, learn to become just some Jack-of-all-trade talento, and keep giving a large percentage of his earnings back to the agency. If the geinokai was professional golf, the caddy would be making ten-times more money than Tiger Woods. It's stupid! It works in Japan, but it's still a stupid system IMHO.

--- groink

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Post by chiisana_tantei » Jul 12th, '06, 09:04

Just read this topics. And yes, I do feel the same way as people here. This is one of the reason I reduced/stop my upload on recent dramas. I don't really see anything that's appealing to me. Like last season, I thought Kurosagi would be good, but after 2 episodes, I got tired of it already.
Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:The best drama I have seen all Season is the JSOTW Joou no Kyoushitsu.
Agreed. I think Joou no Kyoushitsu is very underrated. Another refreshing drama was Tiger&Dragon.
I don't think I've seen any drama that revolved around rakugo. I also thought that TRICK (season 1) and Egao no Housoku was quite unique in storyline.

Lowest wrote:I'm still holding out hope for something as good as Densha Otoko this year..
Densha Otoko, Joou no Kyoushitsu and Hana yori dango (least fav of the three) were the last good drama for me.
Hopefully Densha Otoko SP can deliver the same quality as the TV series. But I'm not keeping high hopes.
groink wrote:My favorite Japanese actors of today and yesterday include: Takashima Reiko, Takekura Ken, Watanabe Ken, Nishida Toshiyuki, Kitaoka Chiezo, Kuroki Hitomi, Takenouchi Yutaka, Naito Takashi, Tsugawa Masahiko... All of these actors have at one time or another really impressed me.
Agreed with Takashima Reiko, Watanabe Ken, Nishida Toshiyuki and Kuroki Hitomi.
I'm surprised that Kanno Miho isn't in your list. I don't usually like her acting, but I thought her acting in Satomi Hakkenden was awesome.
Another one would be Tsutsumi Shinichi. He delivers a completely different character in Good Luck, Yamato Nadeshiko and Musashi.

I also agreed with groink-san's last post.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 12th, '06, 09:23

chiisana_tantei wrote:Agreed. I think Joou no Kyoushitsu is very underrated. Another refreshing drama was Tiger&Dragon.
If Joou no Kyoshitsu is underrated, Densha otoko was, in my point of view, very overrated.

It started very well but the artificial cliffhangers at the end of each episods that got magically resolved at the start of the following got me bored before the end of the season.

Slow dance, was in my opinion far beter in the writting of the script.

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Post by groink » Jul 12th, '06, 18:23

20centuryboy wrote:[If Joou no Kyoshitsu is underrated, Densha otoko was, in my point of view, very overrated.
I've said this several times before... There are quite a few otaku out there. IMHO they should be embarrased by it. But then when you come out with a show like Densha Otoko - which celebrates the otaku and makes it acceptable to be one, then the otaku will be ALL OVER IT! It's the same thing with the American movie Revenge of the Nerds. Back in the 1980's, you REALLY didn't want to be a nerd. But then when the main nerd ended up stealing the blonde girl from the sports jock, nerds all over the world raced out of the theater in droves, psyched up on adrenaline, with their fists in the air showing power... It was almost like a guy coming out of a Rocky movie. YO ROCKY!!!!!!!! YO ROCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simply, that's what Densha Otoko is.... A cult show uniting these dorks, making them feel good about themselves, and probably giving them an excuse to take home with them to their parents in order to continue living that lifestyle. The theme of Densha Otoko - with the digital world they live in, covering it sparked INSTANT success.

--- groink

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 12th, '06, 18:34

groink wrote:
20centuryboy wrote:[If Joou no Kyoshitsu is underrated, Densha otoko was, in my point of view, very overrated.
I've said this several times before... There are quite a few otaku out there. IMHO they should be embarrased by it. But then when you come out with a show like Densha Otoko - which celebrates the otaku and makes it acceptable to be one, then the otaku will be ALL OVER IT! It's the same thing with the American movie Revenge of the Nerds. Back in the 1980's, you REALLY didn't want to be a nerd. But then when the main nerd ended up stealing the blonde girl from the sports jock, nerds all over the world raced out of the theater in droves, psyched up on adrenaline, with their fists in the air showing power... It was almost like a guy coming out of a Rocky movie. YO ROCKY!!!!!!!! YO ROCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simply, that's what Densha Otoko is.... A cult show uniting these dorks, making them feel good about themselves, and probably giving them an excuse to take home with them to their parents in order to continue living that lifestyle. The theme of Densha Otoko - with the digital world they live in, covering it sparked INSTANT success.

--- groink
i highly doubt the reason the show did well was the otaku all sitting around watching it. Everyone i know who really loved it (in japan) was female. All the otaku were doing what they always do, watching anime and JAV!

:lol at the thought that being an otaku is now cool because of that show. It wasnt cool before, during, and certainly not after.
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Post by auroragb » Jul 12th, '06, 19:22

Actually, around the time that the show was airing, there were many surveys taken where surveys were taken showing that women preferred otaku as boyfriends because they were generally seen as more "faithful". tho I think popularity declined quickly after when reports countered saying that otakus were no more faithful than non-otakus.
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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 12th, '06, 19:26

auroragb wrote:Actually, around the time that the show was airing, there were many surveys taken where surveys were taken showing that women preferred otaku as boyfriends because they were generally seen as more "faithful". tho I think popularity declined quickly after when reports countered saying that otakus were no more faithful than non-otakus.
:whistling: i was in japan at the time of the show and after the show, and theirs no upswing in otaku's getting girls. i dont need a poll for that.... :lol
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Post by Romance » Jul 12th, '06, 19:48

bad actors or not in dramas like attention please or galcircle, i dont give a ****, they are funny as hell and i laugh, thats also why they were made :D Period.

But yeah i agree, recently some bad dramas, but there are good seasons and bad seasons. And some of these cute girls cute boys really know how to act, for example the couple in 1 litre of tears which was the best series of 2005.

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Post by Littleangel91356 » Jul 14th, '06, 21:59

groink wrote:
One example: Jukunen Rikon. This had the second highest viewershp ratings in Japan during Autumn 2005 (19.2). Great casting, and great storyline. And it beat out other D-Addicts favorites like Brother Beat and Kiken na Aneki. But despite all that, 1) none of the fansub groups picked up on the series, which 2) caused this series to receive NO votes (other that mine) on last year's voting for best Jdrama of 2005 on D-Addicts.

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_26414.htm
I didn't really watch it*I watched a little part of it* and it was pretty darn well. I was upset that Nobuta beat it cause this was such a higher quality work than that Nobuta :glare:
Some dramas are just overrated, some good ones are just left out. I'm watching kekkon dekinai otoko, I simply find it awsome. Abe Hiroshi is one actor that I really respect for his acting. If to recommend actors that are good, it would have to be:
Karasawa Toshiaki *I miss his wife, yamaguchi tomoko, she's awsome too*
Jinnai Tomonori
Takenouchi Yutaka
Eguchi Yousuke*I recommend him on the drama shiroi kyotou*
Yamamoto Kouji
Yamamoto Taro
Katori Shingo *he's a idol but was impressive on shinsengumi in my opinion*
Takizawa Hideaki *this guy can act. Yoshitsune was pretty well for him and it was his first time doing a taiga drama*
Sakaguchi Kenji
Takeda Shinji
I could go on on the good actors, seriously. And most of these are the people on RECENT dramas that was sucessful. It shows that idols didn't completly overtake yet *they still have the good actos on the show*. Ok, Kimura's acting is VERY simular but I still love his works for some reason, like HERO and Long Vacation.

And I'm still a fan for the older actors, idols, well...Kame could maybe suceed? He's pretty good but hopefully it doesn't turn out like the same kind of role for him also.
But yeah, most dramas now a days have characters that the 'idol' desginated to that role could just be natural and do it. Like Akanishi Jin, his role on gokusen 2 was just his usual self on screen, I wouldn't really say that was acting itself :whistling:

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Post by hisa » Jul 29th, '06, 21:20

I agree with the whole idol thing and all, but for the most part, even though I get hooked on the dramas that have the interesting plots and good themes, I still can't resist the dramas that just plain entertain me. I can't stand watching something that has actors that just plain suck, but for the most part as long as they portray the character well enough that I can feel some sort of emotion towards them, then it's fine by me.

Now, I haven't seen that many jdramas to be the best of judges, but Orange Days was and still is my favorite, despite all of other very entertaining dramas I've watched.

I actually like Attention Please a lot. I think Ueto Aya made the show very entertaining. Before the show I thought she sucked because of that tennis drama she was in before it (but I think now it was mostly sucky production in the first place, I cringed every minute of that drama and could not for the life of me carry on past the first 2 episodes)PLus, her role in that new drama Shimokita Sundays is very interesting from what I've seen so far...

And yeah I admit I can watch a drama because of a certain actor, but for me they can't just be good looking. It's mostly if that catch my interest with a certain role they pulled off well, then I'd like to watch a drama with them again.
like Tsumabuki Satoshi, he's a great actor, though I haven't seen him play a differnt kind of role than the usual one he does, and I turn into a fangirl when he smiles, but I don't bother watching the stuff he's been in if it has had bad reviews.

I guess it's all really just ignoring the bad and watching the good. That's all there should be to it.

Though some people say here that the japanese drama dvd market would be unsuccessful in america, I think there was some other thread a long time ago discussing how the japanese don't really care about targeting dramas towards the western market at all.

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Post by powerKid » Jul 30th, '06, 06:34

hm, i like ueto aya and i like attention please :P
She IS a good actress but sometimes has a few bad points.

Still, i didn't like all the other dramas mentioned xD

Btw, I liked Matsumoto Jun a lot but he's getting to popular now~

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Post by Keeper of hells gate2 » Aug 1st, '06, 04:39

The dramas that are coming out this part of the season are better then when I first started this thread.

Sapuri (Itoh Miaski should play serious roles more often, not great or good, but decent in this role (I will admit she is so nice to look at). A much better actress in this type of role. When shes goofy she is really annoying. Story in Sapuri seems interesting also. Just going to have to wait and see how it plays out, but a promising drama.

Kekkon Dekinai Otoko BEST DRAMA OF THE YEAR PERIOD

Taiyou no Uta - Promising, but will have to see how it plays out.

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Post by groink » Aug 1st, '06, 05:03

Bringing us back to topic... I was surfing around another drama site, and someone brought up the question: "Do Japanese artists watch their own works?"

I was amazed (but not suprised) as the overwhelming reponses leading up to the idea that the artists do not watch themselves. Excuses include "They don't have time". One comment that totally ticked me off is that the artists consider their acting as "work". And you don't want to bring your work home and watch it. What kind of attitude is that?

However, this is probably true. The way I look at it, the geinojin do not consider acting an artform, but rather it is a job. If it were an artform, an actor would do his best to improve his artform. It's like sports... If Tiger Woods never once watched himself hit a golf shot on TV, how would he know what his problems are? Is his coach going to tell him? Hell no! Only the guy swinging the club can really "feel" what he is doing wrong. And he's not going to know unless he watch the videos. And he watches EVERY tournament he's played in.

Same thing with acting. Unless you watch videos of yourself, you're never going to improve. You do NOT improve by acting the same flaws over and over again. Practice does NOT make perfect. You improve by acting, evaluation and THEN practice. If you're a lousy actor, and you don't watch your own works, how are you going to fix your problem? Do you think your fans are going to tell you you suck? LOL! Fark no! They're going to love you anyway. If you're just an idol, then maybe it is all work. But for the purist of actor, the artform is all about striving to be your best in your craft.

So maybe that's really the bottom line of this whole topic: Idols think of it as work, while actors think of it as an artform.

--- groink

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Post by auroragb » Aug 1st, '06, 14:44

while I agree with you that the idea of not having time to review your work is BS, there is some merit to not watching work you've done. A lot of American actors never watch their own work either, but that doesn't mean that they are not professional about it.

I think that it could be perfectly professional to leave a piece of work behind as a unit but focus on your interactions. As an actor you are IN the scene. Watching snippets of how you react to the moment and repeating until you get it right might be valuable, but watching the finished product which just has one version that's too late to change can only lead to frustration.

So, if an actor is interested in directing, watching the finished product is a must as it gives them a larger view of the process. At the same time, it might take them out of the character that they are in. Because, as characters, you must have the perspective of your role, not that of the fly on the wall (camera).

So there are, imho, valid reasons for not watching your own work.
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Post by nadesico » Aug 1st, '06, 16:30

groink wrote:bout striving to be your best in your craft.

So maybe that's really the bottom line of this whole topic: Idols think of it as work, while actors think of it as an artform.

--- groink
I've been browsing this thread for the last 20 minutes, and first I want to say to you groink that reading your posts is always interesting and enlightens the debate in every thread you participate, you seem to know so much about dramas and you have so much perspective, you taught me without knowing a lot of things about the japanese entertainment system since I joined!thank you for that.
back to the subject, I agree with your statement groink. When I started watching dramas 6 months ago, I was really astonished to see them acts, sing and participate in commercials. in fact the all geinokai system looked like a total aberration to me.It seems to me that in Occident, or to be more precise in Europe where I live, people usually considers that you can excel only in one area: music, acting, because it recquires all you got . I think i am not mistaken if I say that such a system in France (where i live) such as geinokai could simply not exist. The reason why I think so is that it appears to me that young Japanese people are just more free comparing consuption than us.Let me explain myself: when they watch dramas with Matsujun, Kame , Yamapi or whoever, they don't tell themselves:"he just got the part because he is good looking, he can't really act", they just want to see their idols as often as possible, should it be in mvs, cms, tv broadcasts. i know for sure that in France, someone doing the same thing, ie sing and in the meantime hosting a show or appears in a series would be soon seen as suspicious. That's what make the advantage and at the same time the inconvenient of all of this: i think it's fine not to be categorized all your life as an actor or a singer if you can do both well, but let's face it, it's very rare!the only one who can do it in my humble opinoin is Matsujun:he is a goosd singer(at least that's what i think) and he can act really well.
All of this said, I still think it's a pretty effective system, agencies like Johnny's are like racing stables: they take young talents and "use" them for years, and the audience just grows up with them, so it's natural for fans to find them everywhere.But i don't think it will last for long: using always the same kind of plot to please the same audience, if it goes on like this the entertainment system is meant to die.It's a pity Japan do not intend as Korea to spread its culture outside its frontiers concerning dramas, because it means there won't be any efforts made to widens the audience targeted and thus scenarios.

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Post by usagi_on_the_moon » Aug 1st, '06, 17:50

I admit, as much as I dislike the fact that idols are sometimes given roles that show their real selves on screen (the often mentioned example of Akanishi Jin in Gokusen 2 comes to mind) I admit, it is always a pleasent surprise when an idol can seriously pull off a role.

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Post by Keeper of hells gate2 » Aug 2nd, '06, 00:44

I still don't think the acting is the "major" problem if the script and the writing is bad. You can't win an oscar for an acting performance working with a "White Chicks" kind of movie script - no matter how good of an actor you are. I guess the really big question is do the Japanese themselves want to watch T.V shows that deal with "big" issues or have an edge to them in the drama format? (Other formats you do see that). If the rating of theses marketing dramas are so good - you are not going to see a change for something else. If it isn't broke don't fix it.

As what has been pointed out before. These idols have an image that they and their agents have to protect which in turn limits the writers artistic capabilities. You are not going to see Matsumoto Jun or that idol in Sapuri do a drama where they play a gay couple or one plays a serial killer. Well, you don't even have to go that far. You probably are not going to see these idol play even a serious villian of some sort. Its kind of funny because if you are an actress or actor and you do something drastically different or controversial you just might win an oscar or emmy. A japanese actor or actress will lose his or her job.

This idea of work vs artistic format doesn't surprise me because what incentive do these actors have to improve their craft? When they are just doing stuff which has no edge to it or stuff that you can't really do much with. If I had to read ESPN que cards every day I would consider that work and not an artistic format. This pretty much the same with some of these drama actors and scripts because they are not asked to do anything else.

Another thing my education is very limited when it comes to Japanese culture, but isn't it rude or arrogant for an actor to question the decisions of a director or producer? I just can't see Nakama Yukie raising up her voice saying " that the scripts here doesn't make any sense" or "should I do this instead of this". This with the combination of the agencies determining what scripts, their just isn't room for artistic creativity.

I was wondering if the problems we see with jdramas are the same in Japanese movies? I haven't seen many Japanese movies. If the acting performances and scripts are the same in movies that they are in dramas. I am willing to bet that American movies do pretty well in Japan. Just a guess though.

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Post by groink » Aug 2nd, '06, 01:19

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:when it comes to Japanese culture, but isn't it rude or arrogant for an actor to question the decisions of a director or producer?
Well, I don't think it would fall under the idea of being "rude". Rather, what you have in the geinokai is an employer/contractor relationship. In this situation, all actors are merely contractors hired on through a temp agency of sorts by a TV network.

It's like real-life work... In my situation, I am serving as a contractor for the U.S. Navy, meaning I'm not actually a full-fledged employee of the Navy but rather a person being rented out to the Navy. Although I was contracted because of my expertise, I have no say in the procedures or other red-tape that occurs in the system. For example, I can't go walking around asking my superiors why it takes me six months to requisition a measly computer mouse. As a contractor, I must work within the system I'm given.

So going back to the geinokai, the relationship between the artist and the TV network, producers, directors, screenwriters, etc. are COMPLETELY different than what you see in the West. For example, in the West, input from the actor is critical in order for the scene to work. Most execs are themselves ex-actors, such as Clint Eastwood and Ron Howard, so they have an understanding and accept criticism whenever an actor has something to **** about relating to the scene at-hand. Even Stephen Spielberg listens to the talent, and has in fact made changes in favor of the actor. I've sat in several filmings of shows such as Hawaii Five-O, Magnum PI, and Byrds of Paradise. In most of these sittings, I sit there with the script in front of me. And it is quite normal for the actors to improvise their lines - even at the very last minute.

But back at the geinokai, EVERYTHING is prepared before the contractor/actor is brought onto the set. Remember now that the geinojin is VERY busy with other things like photo shoots, appearences in game shows, and public appearances for even the stupidest of things. So to be quite honest, I would not be surprised if the actor actually sees the scene for the first time hours before the shoot. I mean, how are you supposed to prepare for the scenes with this type of a schedule? You can't really. Going back to the actor acting bossy on the set, I can see some of the really experienced (notice I didn't say big named) actors have the flexibility of a Western actor, such as Nishida Toshiyuki or Takashima Reiko. I've even read stories where Matsuda Seiko is quite the **** when on the set, but can get away with it because of her experience and status in the geinokai. But would a relatively new actor like Ueto Aya or Matsumoto Jun be able to get away with this attitude. A BIG HUGE HELL NO!!!! The director would tell Jun, "Hey, I f**king hired you through your agency to follow orders - not to tell us how to run thing!" That's how thing are run on the set in Japan.

--- groink

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