Hanbando Anti Japan movie

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Hanbando Anti Japan movie

Post by captain-nippon » Jun 28th, '06, 11:22

‘Hanbando’ and the Nationalist Rage of Kang Woo-suk
With a budget of around US$10 million, this summer's most talked-about film "Hanbando (The Korean Peninsula)” is set to hit the theaters on July 13. Director Kang Woo-suk, who landed 10-million ticket blockbusters with 2004's "Silmido," is not one to beat about the bush, or for that matter affect modesty. "If it weren't me behind it, this movie would never have been made and could never be made," he says.

"Hanbando" is being marketed with posters lined with provocative statements like, "The Korean Peninsula has never been ours." It plays out in a Korea on the verge of reunification and blends fact and fiction about national emergencies and conflicts. North and South, the premise is, have made a pledge to reconcile, and as a symbol of that pact, the Gyeongeui cross-border railroad has at last been completely reopened. But Japan, citing the 1907 Eulsa Treaty with the Empire of Korea, seeks to throw a spoke in the wheels and deploys troops to the East Sea. To overcome the crisis, the protagonists try to unravel a mystery surrounding the “Great Seal,”which has been hidden for 100 years.

Against this scenario, the movie indulges in spectacular battle scenes in the air and on water as well as a re-imagining of the killing of Emperor Gojong and Empress Myeongseong by Japanese thugs. The Chosun Ilbo spoke to the director.


▶ What is the idea behind "Hanbando"?

- History repeats itself. At any time, we can again be invaded by the foreign powers: the environment surrounding the Korean Peninsula permits it. I wanted to wake people up to that fact with my film. The story may seem overblown, but I did my best and I have no regrets.

▶ What do you say to criticism that you exploit nationalist sentiment for box office success?

- Is inciting patriotism or nationalism wrong? Our opinion of nationalism has been overly negative. Since when have we become globalized? Just look at China or Japan: we have to stick together. The movie doesn't force a message. It doesn't tell you what’s right or wrong. I did justice to the characters that support Japan. It’s more like: This is what I think, how do you feel?

▶ All your works seem to have a strong message.

- If a movie doesn't reflect our society, I just wonder what the point is. Social engagement is my driving force.

▶ Do you really feel that there is a danger of invasion by Japan?

- Yes, I do. And my normal feelings about Japan are not good. How brazen they are! If we look back on the issues of wartime comfort women, the Japanese prime minister’s visits to the (Yasukuni) shrine, and the recent controversy over the Dokdo islets, a Japanese invasion seems eminently possible. I’m constantly angry because of that. But without this kind of anger, "Hanbando" wouldn’t have been born.

▶ Some of Korea's leading actors including Ahn Sung-gi, Cha In-pyo, Jo Jae-hyun, and Moon Sung-kun appear in the movie. How did you cast the film?

- I chose the actors completely based on the script. I asked myself: Who fits this role best? And it made me wonder what I would have done if those actors weren't around.

▶ Your movie will be going head-to-head with "The Host" by Bong Jun-ho.

- "The Host" may appeal to the younger generation, but "Hanbando" will bring in audiences from youth to middle age. Besides,"The Host" comes out two weeks after "Hanbando", so it is possible for it to be a win-win. Actually I want "The Host" to be a hit. In the case of "Silmido," it got a boost from the popularity of "Taegukgi."

▶ Do you have anything else to tell our readers?

- The movie’s running time is two hours and 24 minutes. So far I haven’t heard that my movie is boring, even though I’ve heard that it isn’t much fun. It may seem long, but there is some comic relief. And I have confidence in the movie’s drama as well. Audiences may come out of the theaters in something like a burst of anger.

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Post by captain-nippon » Jun 28th, '06, 11:23

Wow, I can't believes this korean director would go this far in the name of patriotism...But I think this guy is a total dick head.

Basically, this director is really trying to pissed off his people and so they can start a war with Japan..... I wonder if he think the korea will win the wars? They didn't win the last time...fat chance of that happening this time too.......

Oh I know the korean are like hate the Japanese, but man this is going to far.

I think this guy is suffering from some major inferiroity complex to Japanese...

Next thing you know some pissed off Japanese director will make a movie depicting how inferior koreans people are to Japanese...

The Asians wars is coming....

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Post by enemenemuh » Jun 28th, '06, 11:36

I think (maybe I should say 'hope') that in this time and age, even Korea, Japan and China are a lot more civilized than to start a war because of something like a movie, which, of course, just tells some script writer's/producer's/director's opinion.

It's FICTION, goddamnit.

Someone who would get angry over a totally trivial thing like this is just braindead.

So is this Korean guy.

Just my two cents. :|

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Post by captain-nippon » Jun 28th, '06, 11:54

You be surprise for what we human fight for.

Of course we all KNOW a wars is not going to happen over some stupid movie....But it's possible the Koreans will hate the Japanese MORE....

Of this movie isn't about wars, it's nothing like that at all...at least that what I think anyway.

It's about the anger and frustrations the koreans have over the Japanese...

This director is really trying to upset his people...Where does this lead to? Nothing good can come from this...

It will be interesting to see how this movie play in the relationship between Korea and Japan? I think Right wing koreans will be even more Anti Japanese than they are now..

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 28th, '06, 21:49

a japan invasion of korea is eminently possible? Uh, no. It's just not true. I feel things like this are similar to the Bush talk in the US, real important things that need to be discussed and people want to discuss get overshadowed by people making statements like BUSH MUST DIE or in this case, KOREA MUST PREPARE FOR THE JAPANESE WAR!!!!

its always easier to shout slogans than to discuss problems and solutions.
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Post by pokute » Jun 28th, '06, 22:03

When I was in Japan in 1982, there were Japanese and Korean fishing boats firing on each other on a daily basis. All of the attacks were reported in the papers in Japan. When I got back to the U.S. I asked people whether any of it had been reported here, and was met with general astonishment.

To put this into perspective, imagine if English and French commercial boats were firing on each other in The Channel, or if U.S. and Cuban commercial boats were exchanging gunfire off Florida (which in fact does happen, and is only reported in Cuba)... Well, I guess I just accidentally found an apt analogue!! Taken on par with the U.S./Cuban situation, is it so hard to understand the Korean/Japanese situation?

Of course, just understanding it doesn't get you very much. I guess people just like to wave the bloody flag all the world over.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 28th, '06, 23:13

pokute wrote:When I was in Japan in 1982, there were Japanese and Korean fishing boats firing on each other on a daily basis. All of the attacks were reported in the papers in Japan. When I got back to the U.S. I asked people whether any of it had been reported here, and was met with general astonishment.

To put this into perspective, imagine if English and French commercial boats were firing on each other in The Channel, or if U.S. and Cuban commercial boats were exchanging gunfire off Florida (which in fact does happen, and is only reported in Cuba)... Well, I guess I just accidentally found an apt analogue!! Taken on par with the U.S./Cuban situation, is it so hard to understand the Korean/Japanese situation?

Of course, just understanding it doesn't get you very much. I guess people just like to wave the bloody flag all the world over.
i know these things....this is kind of what i mean. these things are not discussed. korea never ASKS japan if japan would not visit the shrine. Japan never ASKS korea for a solution to that. its just rhetoric, yelling, etc. but the threat of the all out japanese attack on korea is nil...its just not going to happen. theres a ton more chance of korea and japan being in the same side of a conflict, that actually having a conflict thats any more than rhetoric, threats and blustering.

french and english boats dont fire at each other any more? :whistling:
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Post by captain-nippon » Jun 29th, '06, 01:19

Let just face it, the koreans will alway hate the Japanese....Of course not all koreans, but a large percentage, especially the older generations...

It doesn't matter what Japan does, it's never enought...Japan donated $ 500 millions for the asian Tsunami in 2004..How much did korea give? not nearly as much as Japan....

Korean act like it's the only country in the world that has been invaded? When was the last time you ever hear the Indian complaint about the English invading their country?

I alway wonder why the koreans never bother to solve any of their domestic problems. especially given the wholde situation with the North koreans....They building nuclear bombs, some of that bombs will target Japan shores for sure, the rest will on South koreans soils..

if there's never be an invasion on South korean lands, it will be by the North Koreans not the Japanese.

This director is bastard...He's obviously making lies about Japanese people to sell his movie...At the same time trying to make this people Hate the Japanese even more....

Thanks korea for making asia a safer place to live....

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Jun 29th, '06, 02:17

Next thing you know some pissed off Japanese director will make a movie depicting how inferior koreans people are to Japanese...
A pissed off japanese person made a comic about china and japan. In it they talk about some of the bad things that the chinese and koreans did. One very controversial line was "there is nothing honorable about chinese history" or something like that. The comics sold a few hundred thousand copies I heard.

Forgot what the names were but you can do a search for hate+korean+wave to find some information on them.

I personally was never able to understand why there is so much hatred for Japan. It was a completely different government that did all those things that people are so mad about. Let's face it all countries have skeletons in their closets, and Japan was punished severely for all the things it did. Two atomic bombs and tokyo was bombed everyday for an entire year (at the end of the war it was in even worse shape that the two cities that were hit with the atomic bombs), and the radiation left over caused leukemia outbreaks ("the atomic bomb disease"). Why are people still so mad?

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Post by cgozun » Jun 29th, '06, 02:27

There is not one person who's not troubled by the past. I think William Faulkner said it best, "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

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Post by Prince of Moles » Jun 29th, '06, 03:36

I'm glad that you brought up Faulker. I think Japanese and Southerners probably can understand each other's sentiments relatively well.

We both know that the cause was bad: building an empire in Asia and fighting for slavery. But home is still your home, you can't help but love it. It's not the easiest emotion to explain.

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Post by JadedAngel » Jun 29th, '06, 17:06

Prince of Moles wrote:I'm glad that you brought up Faulker. I think Japanese and Southerners probably can understand each other's sentiments relatively well.

We both know that the cause was bad: building an empire in Asia and fighting for slavery. But home is still your home, you can't help but love it. It's not the easiest emotion to explain.
Yeah, but in the case of the South, even today so many years after the conflict you can still find the Confederate flag waving around showing that even for them it isn't entirely in the past. The same can be said about Japan. Sure there may be no flag waving, but it is a country known for its love of traditions and its past, and a close-minded attitude to anything non-Japanese.

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Post by WroW » Jun 29th, '06, 17:16

captain-nippon wrote:
It doesn't matter what Japan does, it's never enought...Japan donated $ 500 millions for the asian Tsunami in 2004..How much did korea give? not nearly as much as Japan....
That sentence was just as stupid as the directors interview... :wink:

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Post by pokute » Jun 29th, '06, 17:19

No flag-waving?! The old Japanese naval battle flag is all over the place, and it has very strong nationalistic connotations, roughly equivalent to the stars and bars.

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Post by JadedAngel » Jun 29th, '06, 17:31

pokute wrote:No flag-waving?! The old Japanese naval battle flag is all over the place, and it has very strong nationalistic connotations, roughly equivalent to the stars and bars.
Lol, well that just adds to my statements, I didn't consider it because its not that recognizable to me. Thanks for the info.

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Post by pokute » Jun 29th, '06, 17:37

I wasn't really trying to argue with you. I just meant to contribute some info. The naval battle flag is the flag of the rising sun with the rays extending in all directions.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Jun 29th, '06, 17:58

Yeah, but in the case of the South, even today so many years after the conflict you can still find the Confederate flag waving around showing that even for them it isn't entirely in the past. The same can be said about Japan. Sure there may be no flag waving, but it is a country known for its love of traditions and its past, and a close-minded attitude to anything non-Japanese.
Actually in the south a lot of black people as well as white people have a confederate flag in their house/car/etc.

Just like you I don't understand it because I'm from the north, but they say "it's a southern thing" (both blacks and whites).

As for the comment about the past. I think there are several ways to interpret faulkner's sentence. Here's my take on it. I believe that people should never forget the past, but they shouldn't let it control their present. The past is important, and if we don't remember the things that happened, then we might be doomed to repeat it, however if all we think about is the past, and refuse to accept the fact that things have changed, and refuse to live in the present where in fact we have it pretty good, then what kind of life is that?

And the ones that are the worst IMO are those that actually never experienced any serious pains in their past/present but always complain about the "sympathy pain" they suffer from. Sorry, that's not enough. It's true I can't deny your parents/friends/peoples' suffering, but if you never went through anything yourself, you shouldn't complain and accuse other people of one thing or another, especially if you don't have all the information (which most don't). You should remember what happened and if you see that times are heading in that direction, you should try to prevent it, but complaining about what's already happened (to someone else) only makes you seem like a whiner and usually doesn't amount to anything-except people looking down on your and the horror/suffering the other people went through.
Last edited by kotaeshiranaihito on Jun 29th, '06, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thuan » Jun 29th, '06, 18:00

kotaeshiranaihito wrote: A pissed off japanese person made a comic about china and japan. In it they talk about some of the bad things that the chinese and koreans did. One very controversial line was "there is nothing honorable about chinese history" or something like that. The comics sold a few hundred thousand copies I heard.

Forgot what the names were but you can do a search for hate+korean+wave to find some information on them.
I don't know if we're thinking about the same comic, but i thought that the comic was written by a Taiwanese.

Honestly, the director's comments are really stupid. he's trying to cash in on the hatred against Japan. I never met any Japanese as nationalistic as the Koreans I know. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but some of the Koreans I know really hate Japan. They keep talking about the past and constantly tell me how great Korea is. You know, Samsung and Hyundai and whatever. Some Koreans I know refuse to buy anything Japanese.
Most Koreans act as if Japan's still the same like 30 years ago. A few things have changed since then. And the funny thing is that it's been the older Japanese that first started to become interested in Korean culture and media. Try to talk to Koreans above 30.

Same thing with the Chinese. A friend of mine has a Japanese girlfriend. Some Chinese refused to talk to him after they found out that he has lived in Japan and has a Japanese girlfriend. A Chinese friend of me told me that I shouldn't talk about Japan when I'm in China. A lot of young Chinese hate Japan. She doesn't really care about it, but when she's at her Chinese university she will never say anything pro-Japan.

Another Chinese guy that I met was talking about China becoming number one in the world. And China will invade Taiwan within the next two years. In another few years time China will have become so strong that they can invade Japan. By then, nobody would dare to support Japan in a war.

I may be biased because I've spent some time in Japan and I do speak some Japanese, but imho Japanese seem to be more open than Koreans and Chinese. It's true, Japanese do feel that they're a unique "race". But most Japanese don't think that Japanese are a superior race or such. On the other hand, I had the impression that most Japanese suffer from an inferiority complex. Anything that's from America (or Germany or France) has to be good.

A Japanese girl once told me that she doesn't like Chinese. I asked her "Why?". She told me that some Chinese that she met in Canada (she was an exchange student) asked her to apologize for WWII. They were very hostile towards her and kept talking about how bad Chinas had been treated by Japan. She doesn't really care about the past and got fed up by all the Chinese she met, so she told me that she doesn't like Chinese. Interesting how things like this develop.
Honestly, I can understand her. I'm from Germany, so I know what it feels like when people keep talking about the past. I know people who dislike French simply because of the bad experiences that they made in the past. Fortunately things have changed.

But in Asia things seem to get worse. Oh, btw, my friend has nothing against Koreans. Most Koreans she met in Canada didn't care about her nationality. And I know a Korean who's totally into SMAP and Japanese dramas.

It's a pity that things don't always work that way. Recently I began to study Korean (in addition to Chinese). Japan, Korea, China, each of these countries offers something interesting to me, something I'd like to learn more about. It's fascinating to learn about the similarities and differences between these cultures. By doing this you don't only learn something about other cultures, but also more about yourself and the culture you grew up with. I wish that people from these countries would feel the same.
Last edited by Thuan on Jun 29th, '06, 18:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thuan » Jun 29th, '06, 18:06

Ah, and I never met any young Japanese that told me "we never did anything wrong". I have yet to talk to older Japanese (>35) about this topic.

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Post by JadedAngel » Jun 30th, '06, 03:16

pokute wrote:I wasn't really trying to argue with you. I just meant to contribute some info. The naval battle flag is the flag of the rising sun with the rays extending in all directions.
:lol No, I understood what you were saying. I hope you didn't think I was being sarcastic, I wasn't trying to be.
kotaeshiranaihito wrote:
Yeah, but in the case of the South, even today so many years after the conflict you can still find the Confederate flag waving around showing that even for them it isn't entirely in the past. The same can be said about Japan. Sure there may be no flag waving, but it is a country known for its love of traditions and its past, and a close-minded attitude to anything non-Japanese.
Actually in the south a lot of black people as well as white people have a confederate flag in their house/car/etc.

Just like you I don't understand it because I'm from the north, but they say "it's a southern thing" (both blacks and whites).

As for the comment about the past. I think there are several ways to interpret faulkner's sentence. Here's my take on it. I believe that people should never forget the past, but they shouldn't let it control their present. The past is important, and if we don't remember the things that happened, then we might be doomed to repeat it, however if all we think about is the past, and refuse to accept the fact that things have changed, and refuse to live in the present where in fact we have it pretty good, then what kind of life is that?

And the ones that are the worst IMO are those that actually never experienced any serious pains in their past/present but always complain about the "sympathy pain" they suffer from. Sorry, that's not enough. It's true I can't deny your parents/friends/peoples' suffering, but if you never went through anything yourself, you shouldn't complain and accuse other people of one thing or another, especially if you don't have all the information (which most don't). You should remember what happened and if you see that times are heading in that direction, you should try to prevent it, but complaining about what's already happened (to someone else) only makes you seem like a whiner and usually doesn't amount to anything-except people looking down on your and the horror/suffering the other people went through.
Yeah, I know about the "Southern thing" of the flag being used by both white and black southern people, I have family in the south. But no matter how modern the south tries to get they're still stuck in the past in so many ways. :glare: Like how some of the older ones still put a negative connotation on those they consider being from "up north".

As for the rest of it, I agree with everything you said. How can people make progress if they can't learn to let go?

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Post by captain-nippon » Jun 30th, '06, 18:56

captain-nippon wrote:

It doesn't matter what Japan does, it's never enought...Japan donated $ 500 millions for the asian Tsunami in 2004..How much did korea give? not nearly as much as Japan....

That sentence was just as stupid as the directors interview... Wink
How can it be stupid when it's true...I am not the one making up a story to make money off his people. How if you could bring me some proof that koreans donate as much money to the asian Tsunami as Japan did, I would be glad to take back that statement..

First, I am not Japanese, I am Vietnamese.. However, I value Japan and their culture. The Japanese are innovator and they rebuild their country to the strongest in the world. They don't complaint and cry like the Korean and Chinese about WW II...

Do you know where Asia would be now if it wouldn't for the Japanese? White men land.. Japan was the most powerful country in the world in the 70's-80's....The rest of Asia, Chinese and koreans were still a very poor countries. Japan was the world powerhouse in electronics and technologies.

Japan invested billions in korean and China in the last decade. Without the investment and technologies from Japan do you think China and Korea are in the state they are now.? Samsung stole every ideas Sony ever created, and Hyundai isn't nearly as innovated as Toyota and Honda...In fact Hyundai chairment and CEO is in Jail right now for stealing money...

I think chinese people are the biggest hypocrite in the world...It's not the Japanese fault that the last chinese imperial rules were useless and incompetent...and it's clearly not the Japanese fault that Chinese people were weak and uneducated...The English had a very large precentage of Chinese hook on opium...Chinese sold their land to the English for money and here they are talking about national pride...

Imperial Japan was bad but what about Imperial China? chinese love talking about how great their history and how great their mighty dynasty is. Well, all of those dynasties was build on the bloods of innocences people...Imperial chinese emperors were murderers and war criminals...But in chinese history books they are portraits as great heros of China...

And what about the Chinese invasions of Vietnam in 1979's after the Vietnam wars with the america was over...Of course my father and his countryment kick the living craps of those chinese invaders...

The best part is that China denied the invasion and chinese don't even know about it..

As for the koreans, their country are too small and they don't really have an army to do any bad things like try ruling the world...or even attemp to build a empire...And even now they still can't do any of these things. So crying and complaining is the best option...

Just remember, there's a lot more koreans and chinese living in Japan whereas a lot less japanese living in korean and China...So that tell you something about Japanese society compares to the other asians society...

Overall, Japanese is a lot more open mind about other cultures than koreans and chinese. The korean wave in Japan show how acceptance japanese have toward Koreans. I don't think there ever was a Japanese wave in korea except Fact You Japan.

Nationalists koreans are all idiots in my book. I go to school in Toronto, needless to say the korean students and Japanese students are not very close. The koreans students love to talk about how great their country and history are but they never really did anything that's considered to be great. A country divided in 2 can't be that great in my book.

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Post by pokute » Jun 30th, '06, 19:25

What captain-nippon says is essentially true, but it ignores the fact that the Koreans and Chinese, and the Vietnamese for that matter, are rapidly moving forward now, and will become as sophisticated as the Japanese in a very short time. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese are typically more pragmatic (I think this is due to the influence of Buddhism, which in spite of it's limited practice in these countries has been a major influence historically) than Americans and Europeans, and will come to see that it is mutually beneficial for them to overcome their prejudices. Please note that I am talking about a time scale of approximately 40 years, within the lifetime of most people here.

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Post by eye » Jun 30th, '06, 19:38

IMHO captain-nippon is arguing like a nationalist, too. A Japanese nationalist, of course. But that doesn't make it better.
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Post by pokute » Jun 30th, '06, 21:27

Captain-nippon's argument is made in an offensive way, and is aimed away from Japan and towards Korea and China, but it is nevertheless apt in many ways. I don't mean to suggest that this makes it an acceptable way to argue, and I did not address his argument directly because I don't think that I could convince him or disabuse him of anything. I just used his post as a springboard for my own thoughts. You are free to make use of your ignore button as you see fit.
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Post by eye » Jun 30th, '06, 21:39

No offense intended. I just wanted to point out how easy it is to cross the line to nationalist rhetoric. I don't agree with that Korean director's point of view, but anti-Korean rants are no better than anti-Japanese rants.
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Post by Gozen » Jun 30th, '06, 22:16

Long, long memories borrowed from ancestors is what caused so many people to be slaughtered in England for the last few decades. Ordinary people shopping or having a drink were bombed because somebody felt that it was justified.
History is fascinating, and should sometimes be used as a tool to learn how not to do things, ways of life that don't work, and to appreciate the changes that have been made. For the longest time, my country has had a thing about Germany, and a thing about Argentina, but on the whole it's limited to sport and hotel swimming pools, not hate filled rants. We English are despised by many for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Luckily it's mostly harmless and again confined to sport - nobody wants to beat us as bad as the Australians! That's okay though, we understand the rivalry and it's good for motivation.
But this here is something different. This film sounds like it's trying to whip up hatred, much like happened in Europe in the 30s. It wasn't healthy then and it's not healthy now. There simply has to come a point when the long held hatred stops against another country, and we drop the gut reactions and say, yes, they've changed, and they are better now. And in fact, almost all those who took part are old or dead and their grandchildren and great grandchildren are about as different as it's possible to be.
Alternatively, I could just say, you know what? I'm going to invade Italy because those damned Romans invaded my country two thousand years ago. The modern Italian is nothing like the ancient Roman but so what......And as for those darned Saxons.....You see how ridiculous it gets? Worry about what's going on today, not decades or even centuries ago. If you have valid reason to be annoyed today, then state what it is. Harping on the past is not a reason to hate a whole nation of ordinary people.
I am horrified that this kind of angry stuff is going on in a place like this, where people from all over the world share a passion. Watching these dramas, haven't we learned anything about these countries today?

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Post by groink » Jun 30th, '06, 22:45

Gozen wrote: We English are despised by many for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Luckily it's mostly harmless and again confined to sport - nobody wants to beat us as bad as the Australians! That's okay though, we understand the rivalry and it's good for motivation.
Agreed. But man, you should watch the World Baseball Classic games between Japan and South Korea. In my interpretations of these games, the nationalism between these two countries are worse than any football game I've seen. In pre-game interviews, Suzuki Ichiro said some really stupid things about the South Korean team, but that's his personal pride coming out (and BTW he learned this from the Americans.) That's about the worst of it for the Japan team. But you should see how the South Korean team reacted both when they won a game, during games, and especially when they lost the last game that eliminated them from the tournament. I have the final game on DVD (captured from ESPN.) I should seed this on D-Addicts.

As for the director... He's a Michael Moore wanna-be.

--- groink

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Post by steam » Jun 30th, '06, 23:07

I love it when ignorant rightwing nationalist japanese try to argue their point. They know very little about the truth so they argue with what hogwash they got fed through the j-media. In fact most of them want to stay ignorant.

They are too chicken ****(or couldn't care less-japanese in general have a very aloof mentality) to really do some research from unbiased sources and find out they have been living a lie, before spouting their nonsense. Their politics takes advantage of that fact. Almost all japanse that i have ever met are defensive without knowing why. They only see themselves as the ones hurt and abused. They wonder why the US had to bomb them, why the world harasses them about Yasukuni, why China and Korea are so barbaric towards them. Boo-hoo, poor japanese, bullied by everyone.

Advice: GET A CLUE. Ignorance is not bliss. Knowledge is divine.

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Post by captain-nippon » Jul 1st, '06, 00:23

I love it when ignorant rightwing nationalist japanese try to argue their point. They know very little about the truth so they argue with what hogwash they got fed through the j-media. In fact most of them want to stay ignorant.

They are too chicken ****(or couldn't care less-japanese in general have a very aloof mentality) to really do some research from unbiased sources and find out they have been living a lie, before spouting their nonsense. Their politics takes advantage of that fact. Almost all japanse that i have ever met are defensive without knowing why. They only see themselves as the ones hurt and abused. They wonder why the US had to bomb them, why the world harasses them about Yasukuni, why China and Korea are so barbaric towards them. Boo-hoo, poor japanese, bullied by everyone.

Advice: GET A CLUE. Ignorance is not bliss. Knowledge is divine.
you write the funny things....Of course i am not japanese so I'll just laught at you... :roll

Calling Japanese Chicken **** is not cool at all...See how weak and simply mind you are...not to mention how stupid you are... Did you somehow forgot all the invasion Japan made in WW II? or how korea was under Japan imperial rules for 50 years or so...Japanese can't be a chicken if they did all those can they?

Go cry me a river, hate them all you like, in the end it will never change anything at all. China probably invade Japan one day, WW II is just any excuse, they'll do it for lands just like the invasion in Vietnam and Tibet.. As for korea, cry and complaint it the only thing they can do...And maybe worrying about the North with all their unclear bombs...

I don't agree anything the Japanese did in WW II...To me that was 60 years ago...Yes, Japan did invade Vietnam too. Now Japan are investment billions into the Vietnamese economy, providing jobs and technologies...I should be very happy with the Japanese are doing for my country and the rest of Asia.

Japan become a a world most powerful country be working their asses off...when Vietnam, China and korea were still having differcult having a Color TV's or a cars. The success of Asia today, more precisely the economic power of China and korea is
fundamentally based on the Japan economic influences...Vietnam is still a very poor country so we have a long wait to go...but we're getting to be a lot better off today than 10 years ago.

A war with Japan will do no one any good in Asia. We Asians has lost to much of our pride as it is, living in a foreign lands of which the white men stole. How much asian pride are left if Asian start killing each other in the so called era of POST WARS...

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Post by SHD » Jul 1st, '06, 01:59

just seems like the filmmaker trying to drum up boxoffice numbers.

another way of looking at it is maybe he may have not so much issues with Japan as he does Korea. the "Korean wave" has definitely invaded Japan and maybe he's upset at all that hallyu action (maybe some sour grapes too) and thinks that the industry is pandering to outside tastes to increase market. so as an "artist" he makes a film with a nationalistic bent to focus back on Korea. in that interview he's quoted as saying stuff like "Since when have we become globalized?" and "Social engagement is my driving force."

captain-nippon, calm down.

@groink--do you mean the last Korea/Japan game or the Japan/Cuba final?

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 1st, '06, 02:10

groink wrote:
Gozen wrote: We English are despised by many for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Luckily it's mostly harmless and again confined to sport - nobody wants to beat us as bad as the Australians! That's okay though, we understand the rivalry and it's good for motivation.
Agreed. But man, you should watch the World Baseball Classic games between Japan and South Korea. In my interpretations of these games, the nationalism between these two countries are worse than any football game I've seen. In pre-game interviews, Suzuki Ichiro said some really stupid things about the South Korean team, but that's his personal pride coming out (and BTW he learned this from the Americans.) That's about the worst of it for the Japan team. But you should see how the South Korean team reacted both when they won a game, during games, and especially when they lost the last game that eliminated them from the tournament. I have the final game on DVD (captured from ESPN.) I should seed this on D-Addicts.

As for the director... He's a Michael Moore wanna-be.

--- groink
Um, ichiro (he of the ONE name in a sport where everyone has two) was quite obnoxious in and of himself prior to playing baseball in the US. i LOVE ichiro, he's my favorite player, and he was my favorite player even while he was over in japan. but hes always had personal pride, hes always been a bit of a jerk. Why the hell is this the US's fault?
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Post by deathstar550 » Jul 1st, '06, 05:58

I too question the purpose of this movie. I agree with what everyone else has said here -- harping over and stirring up anger is not healthy for stability.

One note that I wanted to toss in, however:
I see terms like "The Japanese," "The Chinese," and "The Koreans" are being tossed around a lot in this thread. It's unavoidable with a topic such as this, but I'd like to make a small request that everyone please be more sensitive when using these blanket terms.

I guess that I was a little offended by some of the comments made earlier by some posters. I'm ethnically Chinese (from Taiwan). Just being Chinese doesn't make me a puppet of everything that my government does. What say did I have in China's decision to send troops into Vietnam? Or North Korea? What say did I have in the recent scandal involving President Chen in Taiwan? What say did I have in Bush's decision to send troops into Iraq? Or Afghanistan?
Nothing. I'm only one person, living out my own life the best that I can. Politics rages all around me, and there isn't much I can do about it. I suspect it's the same for many other people in this world.

Believe it or not, not every person in China hates Japanese people. Likewise, not every person in Korea hates Japanese people. Not every person in Japan hates Chinese and Korean people.

Whoever presses the issue further and says that "Still, a majority of Japanese/Koreans/Chinese hate Japanese/Koreans/Chinese" is doing all of Asia a great disservice. A statement like that downplays the lives of many many people who live in those areas that are tired of all the hate and just want to move on with their lives in peace with their neighbors. It is using the "majority" as an excuse to bash that particular people. In other words, making a statement like that is doing the exact same thing as directing that movie -- both of them are trying to stir up hate.

There are always going to be hatred-mongerers, no matter which country you're from. There will always be racists, supremacist hawks, and super-nationalists.
Remember that these type of people are the loudest people in society. Their loud clamoring drowns out the many many other people from that same society who are not politically involved or do not have many strong views on political/ethnic struggles.
An unfortunate result of this is that outside observers will only see the loud ones and say, "Wow, this nation is full of hatred-mongerers, racists, supremacist hawks, and super-nationalists!" I guess a lot of people add that "All of them must be terrible people."

Let's take America as an analogy, eh?
How many times have you met a friendly foreigner in an online game only to be rudely turned away and mistreated once it was known that you were from America?
It only happened to me once, but that was all it took to drive the point home for me.
Him: "Where are you from?"
Me: (living in America at the time) "America."
Him: "Sorry, but I hate you."
And he left the game. We got along fine for the past hour. I don't know what my being American (first-generation, at that) had to do with anything, especially to get him so upset that he left the game in the middle of our co-op dungeon run. Maybe he hates the American government, and what it's doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe American bombs killed his father, or his sister, or his neighbor. I don't know.
Ostensibly, he hated the American government, probably thought it was evil.
By extension, he thought that I must be evil, since everyone living in America must support what the Bush administration is doing without reservation. That's definitely not true. But hey, guess what -- it's how a lot of the world sees us Americans. We're seen as being mindless pawns of Bush, and as uneducated idiots that don't know anything about all the atrocities that America has committed in the past because our textbooks don't tell us anything.

We could spend all day arguing about whether or not the information that is fed to us is "controlled" or not, but let's look deeper and realize something:
Some people in America may be the mindless pawns that some people from outside America may see us to be, but definitely not all of us are.

Same thing with Japan.
Same thing with China.
Same thing with Korea.

And on top of that, I believe that while all of us know that it's wrong to blame an entire people and their descendants for the actions and antics of a few, not all of us remember to stick by this code unconditionally.

For the record, I'm Chinese and I don't hate Japanese people. "Don't hate" is actually the wrong term to use -- I'm actually in love with many many things about Japanese culture (from my being exposed to it so frequently in my early years). More than anything, I would like for relations between our two nations to improve in the future (and not just politically). In addition, can I include the many Chinese, Korean, and Japanese friends of mine who share this wish for friendship between the three peoples? Our mere existence, although quiet, is a resilient one -- no matter how loudly or how frequently the racists, supremacists, and hatred-mongerers (some of whom may even enter into positions of power in government) clamor, we know that THEY themselves are our enemy, NOT the people that they are trying to demonize. Too many racists are born every minute from this hatred-mongering, and a lot of it starts with making generalizations about the "other side." I refuse to join their ranks.
Last edited by deathstar550 on Jul 1st, '06, 06:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by chamber » Jul 1st, '06, 06:07

I'm from the philippines, and japan invaded us at the 40's, the occupation might not be as long as some other countries but some truly evil things were done at the time. My grandfather was guerrilla fighting them at the time and his brother was executed for being part of an underground publication. Now though, i personally don't feel any animosity towards any japanese person and have considered my japanese classmates friends. Japan has also become one of the leading countries to help philippines out the development loans and grants.

I know japan today has totally changed from the empire of the past. From one of the most warmongering countries they have become pacifists, using diplomacy over an iron-fist.
Although i think japan can do more in publicly acknowledging there part in the past like germany.

To me, history is there so people can learn form it. But if you use it to instill hatred and fear then you will just continuing a cycle that has led to so many deaths. I think 60 years is a long time to hate, when we all could be using that effort into bringing more unity to this region.

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Post by groink » Jul 1st, '06, 09:51

SHD wrote:@groink--do you mean the last Korea/Japan game or the Japan/Cuba final?
The last game between Japan and Korea. I don't have the whole thing - I have the later part of it (the 7th inning to end), starting with the controversial incident between innings when the Korean pitcher rolled the ball across the path of the Japanese hitter on his way back to the dugout. Right after that incident, the home run by the Japan hitter that started the scoring craze.

I'm trying to find the other two games. I watched the first game live but didn't bother recording it. The second game I totally missed seeing I was out of town.

As for Suzuki Ichiro, my comment about him and America is purely from my personal observation watching Japanese baseball over the years when he played for the Orix Blue Wave back in the 90's, years before he joined the Seattle Mariners (Hawaii received Japanese baseball on TV back then). He was indeed ****, just like many other great athletes like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. But he never showed any overwhelming sense of pride for his team when he played in Japan, nor did I see it in any other players except maybe when the Hanshin Tigers play the Yomiuri Giants. When Seattle was in the American West pennant race in 2001, he did show some pro-Mariner pride that I've never seen in him in prior times - or any Japanese player before him. When he made his speech about the 30-year thing, I said to myself that's pretty typical of an American player (remember the trash talk between the US and the USSR in basketball over the years). But from a Japanese player - that's very unusual. One of my friends who is an American major league baseball guru mentioned the same thing, and he too believes he developed it during his stint in Seattle. That's basically how I've come to that conclusion.

--- groink

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 1st, '06, 14:24

groink wrote:
SHD wrote:@groink--do you mean the last Korea/Japan game or the Japan/Cuba final?
The last game between Japan and Korea. I don't have the whole thing - I have the later part of it (the 7th inning to end), starting with the controversial incident between innings when the Korean pitcher rolled the ball across the path of the Japanese hitter on his way back to the dugout. Right after that incident, the home run by the Japan hitter that started the scoring craze.

I'm trying to find the other two games. I watched the first game live but didn't bother recording it. The second game I totally missed seeing I was out of town.

As for Suzuki Ichiro, my comment about him and America is purely from my personal observation watching Japanese baseball over the years when he played for the Orix Blue Wave back in the 90's, years before he joined the Seattle Mariners (Hawaii received Japanese baseball on TV back then). He was indeed ****, just like many other great athletes like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. But he never showed any overwhelming sense of pride for his team when he played in Japan, nor did I see it in any other players except maybe when the Hanshin Tigers play the Yomiuri Giants. When Seattle was in the American West pennant race in 2001, he did show some pro-Mariner pride that I've never seen in him in prior times - or any Japanese player before him. When he made his speech about the 30-year thing, I said to myself that's pretty typical of an American player (remember the trash talk between the US and the USSR in basketball over the years). But from a Japanese player - that's very unusual. One of my friends who is an American major league baseball guru mentioned the same thing, and he too believes he developed it during his stint in Seattle. That's basically how I've come to that conclusion.

--- groink
i disagree...im not going to write a novel about it cause its going to come off as GROINK IS SO WRONG, but i really disagree.
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Post by cgozun » Jul 1st, '06, 14:39

Here is another quote for you all. This time from Hegel.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Dear Japan, We hate you. Love, Korean schoolchildren.
Don't kids say (draw) the darndest things?!
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550&st=0
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=39
This was a year old but it's a glimpse of the next generation Korean sentiment towards Japan.
nikochanr3 wrote:Um, ichiro (he of the ONE name in a sport where everyone has two) was quite obnoxious in and of himself prior to playing baseball in the US. i LOVE ichiro, he's my favorite player, and he was my favorite player even while he was over in japan. but hes always had personal pride, hes always been a bit of a jerk. Why the hell is this the US's fault?
I think groink was talking about suppressing emotions or killing emotions. Ichiro did mention it in one of his interviews when asked the difference between Japanese and American players.

Ichiro didn't learn personal pride from the Americans like previously mentioned but the courage to express it no matter how tactless he maybe at times. I think his case is more like freedom of speech in the wrong hands. In other words, what he said is not necessarily American. Expressing it was.

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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Jul 1st, '06, 17:41

One thing I notice about the world these days is that we have a lot of whiners. So many people these days are pity-whores, "wah wah wah my daddy never hugged me, he hugged that other man but he never hugged me, please pity me" and the like.

I don't understand why, but people always want to feel like victims. It could be their personal life, their race, their gender, their ancestors history, anything they can think of, as long as they can get themselves and others to pity them. Let's call it the "Victims Complex".

I have been researching, and studying this for a little while now, I found some answers as to why people feel this, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

The answers I found were pretty much these

1) people want attention.
2) people are bored with their easy life and want some excitement.
3) there is a short hormonal imbalance that comes from self pity, and it takes people away from the normal feeling, so I guess people like the change (remember wedding crashers, grief is the best aphrodisiac lol)
4) when we feel self pity, the brain releases some chemicals that might be as addictive as heroine for some.

And like I said, even with all these answers, I am still not able to understand why people would want to create problems for themselves and then whine about them. It's just unimaginable for me. Are peoples' lives really that easy that they are so bored and they have to create problems for themselves?

With the whole political correctness thing going on now, a popular thing to do is blame people nowadays for the things their ancestors (not always their ancestors, ancestors with the same skin color/race is enough for some) did. I'm not going to go into specifics, don't want to risk offending anyone.

It seems this caught on with the asian countries and now everyone is doing the exact same thing to the japanese.

I think this was a natural result of the equation given. Political correctness+victim's complex = radical activist crap.

People need to stop feeling like victims and blaming others for any minuscule problems they might have and take a good look around them and see that in reality, most of them do not have it bad at all. And for those that do, well trust me I understand how you feel, but it is still not the fault of the other person, especially if it was something that happened hundreds (or thousands) of years ago.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 1st, '06, 23:02

cgozun wrote:Here is another quote for you all. This time from Hegel.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Dear Japan, We hate you. Love, Korean schoolchildren.
Don't kids say (draw) the darndest things?!
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550&st=0
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=39
This was a year old but it's a glimpse of the next generation Korean sentiment towards Japan.
nikochanr3 wrote:Um, ichiro (he of the ONE name in a sport where everyone has two) was quite obnoxious in and of himself prior to playing baseball in the US. i LOVE ichiro, he's my favorite player, and he was my favorite player even while he was over in japan. but hes always had personal pride, hes always been a bit of a jerk. Why the hell is this the US's fault?
I think groink was talking about suppressing emotions or killing emotions. Ichiro did mention it in one of his interviews when asked the difference between Japanese and American players.

Ichiro didn't learn personal pride from the Americans like previously mentioned but the courage to express it no matter how tactless he maybe at times. I think his case is more like freedom of speech in the wrong hands. In other words, what he said is not necessarily American. Expressing it was.
i think the world baseball classic was a unique situation, and thats why it came out now. to take someoen who has always been 100% in love with himself (again, he has ONE name where everyone has two), take a situation, see it in a certain light to make a point about racial pride, and then to give him motivation of learning this in the US just strikes me as a lot of assumptions. Not only are we assuming what he was thinking, but why. sorry, but its a huge stretch...
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Post by Néa Vanille » Jul 2nd, '06, 03:19

Very good post, deathstar550.

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Post by Popdog » Jul 5th, '06, 12:20

I'm Canadian Chinese and I used to be fed lots of anti Japanese stories (basically war stories about their cruelty etc) till I disliked them a lot. Then a friend once said to me...well, if you hate Japan so much, you should throw out everything you have that is Japanese.

Haha...my house would be empty.

But anyway, I grew to like Japanese entertainment as well and I came to realize something important.
Japan will never invade another country again because they are no longer the type of nation they were in the first half of the 20th century. They no longer worship their emperor or believe that if they died for him, they would go to heaven. They are also wealthier, have much more possessions and love themselves a lot more. This materialism makes it less likely for a people to sacrifice themselves for their country. I mean people who have lots of things tend not to want to die so fast. Plus, the internet helps spread information and prevent people from getting brainwashed by the propaganda of their own country.

So saying, the biggest danger is China because they are building their country with revenge on their minds. As a ethnically Chinese person, I'm quite worried about the direction they're heading. China seems to be building power just so to show the world that the Chinese can be a world power, and they seem impatient to flex their muscles. They also suppress freedom of information on the internet and news, and still seems to be controlled by a government that is dictatorial. The chinese generally are not a super wealthy people, and they eye other nations' wealth and technology with some envy. These conditions make me a little uneasy.

Well, I'm not China bashing, don't misunderstand. I'm merely thinking about the conditions whereby a country could start a war. Right now, it doesn't seem Japan has the will to, but China could be a different story.

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Post by x_XJules » Jul 5th, '06, 12:50

nikochanr3 wrote:
groink wrote:
Gozen wrote: We English are despised by many for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Luckily it's mostly harmless and again confined to sport - nobody wants to beat us as bad as the Australians! That's okay though, we understand the rivalry and it's good for motivation.
Agreed. But man, you should watch the World Baseball Classic games between Japan and South Korea. In my interpretations of these games, the nationalism between these two countries are worse than any football game I've seen. In pre-game interviews, Suzuki Ichiro said some really stupid things about the South Korean team, but that's his personal pride coming out (and BTW he learned this from the Americans.) That's about the worst of it for the Japan team. But you should see how the South Korean team reacted both when they won a game, during games, and especially when they lost the last game that eliminated them from the tournament. I have the final game on DVD (captured from ESPN.) I should seed this on D-Addicts.

As for the director... He's a Michael Moore wanna-be.

--- groink
Um, ichiro (he of the ONE name in a sport where everyone has two) was quite obnoxious in and of himself prior to playing baseball in the US. i LOVE ichiro, he's my favorite player, and he was my favorite player even while he was over in japan. but hes always had personal pride, hes always been a bit of a jerk. Why the hell is this the US's fault?
umm... woooo go mariners! :lol

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Post by captain-nippon » Jul 14th, '06, 21:50

another negative review by a south korean.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/culture ... 510970.htm


By Kim Tae-jong
Staff Reporter


South Korean president (played by Ahn Sung-ki), left, holds hands with a North Korean leader as a gesture of the cooperation between the two nations in new movie “Hanbando.”
The new movie ``Hanbando'' (the Korean Peninsula) begins with the hypothetical premise that Japan will emerge in the near future as the main opponent of the unification of North and South Korea.

It also criticizes Japan's historical distortions of its rule of the Korean Peninsula from 1910 to 1945.

Although the sensitive theme appeals to Korean audiences, who know the tragic history of Japan's rule, in the end it becomes a propaganda film full of radical nationalism. It lacks cinematic development, reality, and a balanced approach to historical events and the current situation.

Directed by Kang Woo-suk, the film is set in the future as South Korea develops a close relationship with the North. The two Koreas agree to reopen a railway between the two states but, as it constructed the railway during its colonial occupation of the peninsula, Japan claims ownership of the railway.

To prove Japan has no right to the ownership, patriotic historian Choi Min-jae (played by Cho Jae-hyun), with cooperation from other progressive politicians and the President of South Korea (played by Ahn Sung-ki), seeks the authentic Great Seal of King Kojong, which the king hid. King Kojong was the 26th king of the Choson Kingdom and the first emperor of the Taehan Empire. They believe the original seal is a key to demonstrate that most contracts between Korea and Japan were either made forcibly or were faked.


The film is full of hyped emotions of all the main characters, and the development of story largely depends on too many dry instructive dialogues on historical, diplomatic and political issues.

But things get worse when Kang overdoses on nationalism as he explains tragic historical events.

In the movie, he recreates the tragic moments when Queen Myongsong and King Kojong were brutally killed by Japanese. This scene is simply over-dramatized.

Nationalism has been one of the most popular motifs in local films. Of the ten most viewed films of all time, five deal with nationalistic issues: ``Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood War'' (2004), ``Welcome to Dongmakgol'' (2005), ``Silmido'' (2004), ``Swiri'' (1999) and ``Joint Security Area (JSA)'' (2000).

Generally, in such films, nationalism is explored by presenting the North as a struggling sibling or by depicting other powers such as Japan, China and United States as imperialist enemies that threaten the nation's independence.

But Kang should ask himself who would be willing to spend money and time to listen to a boring ideological lecture for two and a half hours delivered by a teacher infused with sentimental patriotism.



Why do i get the feeling that with all the negative reviews this movie will still be a blockbuster in S. Korea. The author does have a point about nationalistic issues in S. korean..So far all the movies with nationalism theme have been very successful...Of course a distorted views of the Japanese is a bonus...

At the same time it kinda ironic that this movie is being released within the same time the N. Korean is launching a few tested missiles...

Here's an idea for a few distorted s.korean directors. Japanese testing nuclear missile on S. Korea...and N. korea is a peace loving country understand Japanese control....

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Post by Tasogare Kuma » Jul 15th, '06, 17:18

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious - Oscar Wilde...

Old Oscar was so damn right with this.

Additionally, how is Japan supposed to invade South Korea, especially given the fact that something like that would need a massive amphibious landing, and Japan has 28 Landing Tank Ships, 12 Landing Utility Ships and 11 LCUs, not nearly enough for an invasion.

Oh and...
steam wrote: They wonder why the US had to bomb them, why the world harasses them about Yasukuni, why China and Korea are so barbaric towards them.
FYI, I have yet to hear any European country to say anything about Yasukuni. Europe, for example, just doesn't care. Most politicians here, most likely, don't even know what Yasukuni is. And the major issue of Yasukuni are the 14 class A war criminals, not the majority of the people enshrined there (and the standard Japanese infantry man was surely not a murderer and rapist, just like the standard German Wehrmacht trooper didn't kill Jews). But hey, it's okay for the former Allies to "worship" their soldiers (including their warcriminals, like Air Marshall Harris, the Butcher of Dresden), but the "losers" of WW2 aren't allowed to do that? Uh huh...

And now, a little lesson in history and military flags:

[img]http://flagspot.net/images/j/jp~.gif[/img]
This is the Japanese naval ensign, flown today by the MSDF. It comes originally from the Imperial Japanese Army, which used to fly it during the Meiji Jidai.
[img]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... sdf-02.jpg[/img]
Hatsuyuki class All-Purpose Destroyers, from front to the back:
Sawayuki
Shirayuki
Isoyuki (most likely)

Personally, I'd consider it just as offensive as this one:
[img]http://flagspot.net/images/g/gb~we.gif[/img]
The British White Ensign of the Royal Navy. A flag, that too, stands partly for colonialism and oppression (who invented the concentration camps? The British in the Boer War, FYI), but it's okay to fly this one?

Double standards.

Someone explain me where JSA deals with nationalistic ideas...

Though, I think that director of this one particular movie under discussion is... a North Korean agent!

And hey, nobody wants to beat the Aussies. JUST DRINK THEM UNDER THE TABLE!!! :alcoholic: :mrgreen:

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Post by captain-nippon » Jul 15th, '06, 23:11

FYI, I have yet to hear any European country to say anything about Yasukuni.
The only 2 country that complaint about the Yasukuni are China and korea...The American build a memorial wall for the 60 thousands soldiers that was killed in Viet nam...I would never visit that memorial wall or come near it, but I don't understand the need to respect for the dead...

The only reason why china an korean complaint about the Yasukuni is because of political power, if they to avoid a issue they bring up the Yasukuni.

I don't think the Japanese Prime Minister should ever stop visiting the Yasukuni, If the chinese and the korean don't like it too BAD...

If you think stop visiting the Yasukuni will inprove the relationship between Japan/China/Korea, YOU'RE STUPID....Sorry I don't buy that shits for a moment......

Japan need to remain strong and powerful, otherwise, China will invade Japan without thinking twice ...just like they will invade Thaiwan if the American isn't there. Thaiwan is full of Nationalists Chinese, their own people.....And just like Vietnam and Tibet....


The reason why the german don't have a Shrine for Hilter is because it's not in their religion . European don't pray for the dead like the Asian culture do, wheather it's Buddhism, Zen or Confusianism....

However, Hilter is still worshipped by the Neo Skin Head in Germany and worldwide.

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Post by captain-nippon » Jul 23rd, '06, 07:48

The movie was release last week....Well, I was right, it's number 1 at the korean box office...It's probably will be there for the next 2-3 weeks....So much for all the bad reviews...

I hope this movie get a a nationalwide release in japan too...It will be interesting to see how the japanese media react to this movie...

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Post by expo1970 » Jul 23rd, '06, 11:41

The Japanese, being very bad at diplomacy, appear to have a bad reputation amongst certain circles, but quite frankly, the world still holds much better sentiments towards Japan than Korea or China.

Japan has never tried to overly defend itself from bashing (which to me seems stupid, because Japan hasn't done anything wrong) so Korea and China (the only two nations in the world who hate Japan) are free to spread a bad image of Japan. But even despite these efforts, Japan has continually proven itself through its history of actions. Japan has been a very good member of the international community and is well received worldwide.

This movie will be another propaganda film in the anti-Japan Korean/Chinese community but the rest of the world won't change their opinions of the Japanese. Worst case scenario, the world would think less of the Koreans.
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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 23rd, '06, 12:51

Tasogare Kuma wrote:(who invented the concentration camps? The British in the Boer War, FYI), but it's okay to fly this one?
No way, the americans first used this in the american civil war. (remember the second part of "the good, the bad, the ugly"?)

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Post by auroragb » Jul 24th, '06, 01:11

20centuryboy wrote:
Tasogare Kuma wrote:(who invented the concentration camps? The British in the Boer War, FYI), but it's okay to fly this one?
No way, the americans first used this in the american civil war. (remember the second part of "the good, the bad, the ugly"?)
various forms of internment camps have been used pretty much since there was war. The term was coined in the Boer War

As for Japan's bad rep. It's bad in Asia because pretty much all Asia has suffered to various degree at the hands of Japan. Outside Asia, much less so because Japan has not really done any bad to them and is home to a lot of electronics brands that people like, where as China and Korea has not many established brands
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Post by Romance » Jul 24th, '06, 01:23

These silly koreans

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Post by groink » Jul 24th, '06, 01:26

Being outside of Europe, I have to ask... Do the Europeans still have a major grudge against the Germans that is similar to Asians against the Japanese?

--- groink

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Post by Romance » Jul 24th, '06, 01:53

groink wrote:Being outside of Europe, I have to ask... Do the Europeans still have a major grudge against the Germans that is similar to Asians against the Japanese?

--- groink
Nah, its only korea who thinks they are so special, its in the past for f*** sake, more or less every country had their invasions and ockupations during wartime, come on get over it!

What can a movie like this do? Only bring hatred towards koreans from the japanese and vice versa, and definately western people like us who are intrested in asia, this just makes us laugh at korea.

I wonder how the movie will be though...

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Post by onesonicbite » Jul 24th, '06, 02:46

Well, in defense of China and Korea, Japan was HORRIBLE in world war II. I am not saying they should all hate Japan, but when learning about WWII for 5 months, I learned that Japan was equally as bad as Germany. The main difference between Germany and Japan is that Germany has appoligized while Japan has not. Although I have a very one sided view about Japan in WWII but as I was taught, Japan doesn't think they did anythign wrong in "The Rape of Nanjing".

From what I understand with the anti-Japan feeling can be compared with Communism in the United States. I don't know about everyone else in the US, but I know have witnessed huge anti-communism people. If I mention it to someone, they still freak when I say it isn't "all that bad of an idea" Not even the idea of Socialism. It is impounded in our brains that Capitalism is the way to go. After my class on World War II, I was in a class called th 60's which talked about the 60's. Naturally we learned about Vietnam, and even though it was OBVIOUS we didn't have any purpose there, kids were somehow enraged with Vietnam. Honestly, I don't think the kids understood it XD I can safely say that my teacher was teaching with the bias that we had no real justified reason to be in the war, too. Eventually one kid asked in a **** manner "Vietname is like what? a piece of **** now after war since they are communist?" My teacher was suprised and answered back with "Actually, they are doing pretty well. They are more so socialist than communist. They actually based their government after our constitution"

Anyways, I think in general we have less hate for Japan because
A) they supply us with many various goods.
B) We are halfway across the globe. We didn't feel their wrath as much

In general China & Korea hates Japan still for the war is because Japan never apoligized for most of their war crimes. Germany has.

Of coarse, I am not in anyway Asian, and I live in the United States. WWII and the war with Japan is never really taught in school. It is like "Should we of bombed Japan?" and that is it. No one knows about how Japan was a monster back then, and no one knows about how we faught all the wars on water, or the fact that we firebombed the **** out Japan before we bombed it finally.

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Post by Ssang » Jul 24th, '06, 03:12

A useful analogy for the political situatoin among the east asian nations is one of houses on a street in suburbia and one of the neighbors throwing **** at the others' doors. It doesn't matter if not all members of the offending household were involved, and it's easy to see why it would be difficult for most of those in the other houses with the **** smeared on their doors not to become focused on their perpetrators -- they have to deal with **** everyday in some way (whereas the reverse wouldn't hold true).

Yeah, anyway, so 60 years later, and what's going on? It's human to forgive and forget, just as much as anything else, so what sustains the mentality that I see a lot of Koreans (and Chinese) have toward Japan? Well, the only thing that would sustain it is if **** continues to be thrown.

I'm a Korean American but I don't follow politics much and freely admit that I am not researched in this area. But from what I've gleaned, it seems that anti Japanese sentiments, at least as far as political modalities go, continues to be sustained to the extent that Japan continues to glorify its imperialist past. I'm sure there's a lot of ground to cover or a lot of analysis to be done in just this area: Is Japan gloryfing their imperialist past indeed? Would critical scrutiny reveal that it's not? Well ,again from an unresearched pov, I know that there was an issue of Japan editing textbooks a couple of years ago or so in a way that mimimizes the atrocities that Japan commited. I've seen this likened to a Germany editing its history to distort or minimize the Holocaust, which needless to say is awful especially considering the extent of those atrocities. Many Chinese would argue that what Japan did was even worse than Germany. What about the Japanese imperial flags? As another poster pointed out, naval ships continue to don them, which is like Germany blazing Swatzikas, as far as I see.

Potential analogies are obvious, but do they hold? Culture at large is much more complicated involving many psychological and social factors so I'll ignore them - lots of Koreans are indifferent, hate, or love Japan and sometimes if they hate Japan it's only in a political mode and not a personal one. (Btw, does this work in the same way with Japanese toward Koreans? It's arguable but it's social heritage of discrimination and racism tends to give a negative glaze in this respect.) My point is that it's easy to see why the Korean-Japan dynamic and the China-Japan dynamic can be thought of as more than a dangling leftover from the past. It would be fallacious to criticize "it's in the past for fucks sake" if there are current events that sustain the mentalities that we see among asian peoples. If present political actions continue to dip in the past in some way, then the past is relevant. It would be nonsequitir to criticize those responding with references to past as if it were only in the past; and, as with my little analogy, it would be difficult to ignore or not to be rather obsessed with the household of people who keep throwing **** your way.

As for the movie, I don't know much about it, but I'm not surprised that lapdog nationalists like Captain Nippon have made this thread. From what I've gathered, the movie is a fictionalization that takes various political tensions that exist (Dokdo for instance being a part of it), and not just between SK and Japan, and that's that. It's a counterfactual expression of one individual or group who are the makers of the film. There are plenty of critics and denouncers of the movie who are Korean, ticket sales for the movie regardless (likewise, hate Korea comicbooks was a bestseller but I'm not juding Japanese from that), and the contents of the movie after all may not be as bad as c-n portrays. Hanbando may stir up or play off of political tensions and situations as well as other issues Korean care about a lot (reunification for instance). However, at least it isn't racist or doesn't seem to be. I don't believe there are any stereotypical traits or characterizations of Japan going on in the move; there are no talks of "inferior people" or language of the sort which frequently fills the posts of our favorite J-wannabe posters like captain-nippon. About which, indeed, and pardon my generalization, but I notice captain-nippon seems to be a clone of a vast set of peoeple I've come across on the internet. They are usually anime geek losers who are, ironically, awfully obsessed with Kdrama and Koreans even if they don't like either; and despite not being Japanese (or so they say), they sound an awful lot like dime-a-dozen Japanese nationalists. Is that a stereotype? It seems valid here.

Oddly enough, Captain-Nippon sent me an inflammatory pm. Why? I don't know, except that it seems he understands that I'm Korean. :roll I didn't even bother reading his pm beyond the first couple of paragraphs.
Last edited by Ssang on Jul 24th, '06, 03:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by groink » Jul 24th, '06, 03:20

If people believe an apology will repair anything, then they're even more gullible than I thought. Apologies are just words IMHO. Hirohito is dead. Hideyoshi is dead. Just about everyone who committed these atrocities are dead. I think the Japanese saying they're sorry is far from being the reason for the hatred towards the Japanese. What are the Koreans and Chinese going to do? Hate the Japanese for the next 10 generations? 100 generations? Infinity? Koreans make themselves out to be a loving people, but still carry this type of luggage? Do they really think this is healthy?

Listen - I lost eight of my family members in the Pacific War to the Japanese. If anyone should hate the Japanese today, it should be the Americans because the Japanese bombed the crap out of Pearl Harbor (which I live only two miles away from). But despite the loss of my grandfather and several of my uncles, I don't have any hatred towards the Japanese. It doesn't do me any good to hate them. And it isn't just because they produce eletronic equipment, great food and Sakai Noriko. I just don't have any personal grudges since I haven't been affected by them directly. My mother, on the other hand, hate the Japanese because it was her father that was killed by the Japanese. But she doesn't come to my house for dinner and start cussing out the Japanese at the dinner table.

The Koreans hate the Japanese because they ENJOY hating the Japanese.

Totally ridiculous...

--- groink

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Post by doink-chan » Jul 24th, '06, 03:25

Gozen wrote:Long, long memories borrowed from ancestors is what caused so many people to be slaughtered in England for the last few decades. Ordinary people shopping or having a drink were bombed because somebody felt that it was justified.
History is fascinating, and should sometimes be used as a tool to learn how not to do things, ways of life that don't work, and to appreciate the changes that have been made. For the longest time, my country has had a thing about Germany, and a thing about Argentina, but on the whole it's limited to sport and hotel swimming pools, not hate filled rants. We English are despised by many for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Luckily it's mostly harmless and again confined to sport - nobody wants to beat us as bad as the Australians! That's okay though, we understand the rivalry and it's good for motivation.
But this here is something different. This film sounds like it's trying to whip up hatred, much like happened in Europe in the 30s. It wasn't healthy then and it's not healthy now. There simply has to come a point when the long held hatred stops against another country, and we drop the gut reactions and say, yes, they've changed, and they are better now. And in fact, almost all those who took part are old or dead and their grandchildren and great grandchildren are about as different as it's possible to be.
Alternatively, I could just say, you know what? I'm going to invade Italy because those damned Romans invaded my country two thousand years ago. The modern Italian is nothing like the ancient Roman but so what......And as for those darned Saxons.....You see how ridiculous it gets? Worry about what's going on today, not decades or even centuries ago. If you have valid reason to be annoyed today, then state what it is. Harping on the past is not a reason to hate a whole nation of ordinary people.
I am horrified that this kind of angry stuff is going on in a place like this, where people from all over the world share a passion. Watching these dramas, haven't we learned anything about these countries today?
I agree. I think that judging people by bad things that their ancestors did is doinky. While said bad things shouldn't be forgotten altogether, I think it's just plain stupid to blame ordinary people who had nothing to do with the war and were born long after it ended for the actions their country did during the war.

I also agree with groink's post. Like groink, one of my relatives (my grandfather in this case) fought the Japanese in WWII. However, even though he fought them in WWII, my grandfather has never been against doinkies watching anime and J-dramas, reading manga, learning Japanese and listening to J-pop. Likewise, I have never felt hatred toward the Japanese because of WWII just because of the doinky government who committed atrocities during it, especially because those doinks are all pretty much dead and gone now. While I understand why the Koreans and Chinese would be angry, I feel it is doinky to continue to hate Japan even after 60 years have passed and Japan has changed from what it used to be.
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Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Jul 24th, '06, 03:51

What exactly is a doink?

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 24th, '06, 05:27

kotaeshiranaihito wrote:What exactly is a doink?
a kind of nerd?

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Post by Ssang » Jul 24th, '06, 11:56

cgozun wrote:
Dear Japan, We hate you. Love, Korean schoolchildren.
Don't kids say (draw) the darndest things?!
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550&st=0
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=39
This was a year old but it's a glimpse of the next generation Korean sentiment towards Japan.
Here's the truth in case you don't know. The person at the aog.2y.net who posted all of those pictures has micaptioned them!

Everywhere he claims the picture says "F uck Japan" is outright false. There is no "Fu ck Japan" written anywhere; instead what we see is "dokdoneun oori ddang" (ie dokdo is our land). Those pictures were in fact drawn in the thickest heat of the Dokdo/Takeshima debates that were going on a year ago.

Imagine the kind of impression one gets without this information! And yet everyone is basing their opinions on what I call deliberate misinformation.

Something else I should assert. There is a crucial distinction to make between being anti-Japan and being anti-Dokdo-Japan. Those cartoons have a Dokdo theme going in most if not all of them and as such are anti-Dokdo-Japan (anti the Japanese government in the midst of claiming Dokdo as their territory) cartoons. Generalizing from that, the cartoons are anti-Japanese-imperialism or anti-imperialist-mindset cartoon (which is not a bad thing at all if I say so myself! And let's not forget that Korean society is in fact a recovering postcolonial one). It doesn't neccesarily follow from this that the cartoons, as misguided as they are I don't argue, are anti-Japan or, in any case, what many hangeul-illiterate readers apparently have taken them to be.

What I'm giving is a very important disclaimer, I feel, yet none of the context and certainly no critical analysis is given by the tard who has posted those pics. (The guy at aog.21 is probably the same degenerate loser at occidentalism.org, though I was unable to visit the occidental link, I don't get a web response.)

Now a question I'd ask is to what extent is Hanbando anti-Japanese movie really? It may be anti-Dokdo-Imperialist-Japan movie. But otherwise I find something very problematic about the "Hanbando is an anti-Japanese film" characterization. Critical distinctions would be useful.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 24th, '06, 12:21

Ssang wrote:
cgozun wrote:
Dear Japan, We hate you. Love, Korean schoolchildren.
Don't kids say (draw) the darndest things?!
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550&st=0
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=39
This was a year old but it's a glimpse of the next generation Korean sentiment towards Japan.
Here's the truth in case you don't know. The person at the aog.2y.net who posted all of those pictures has micaptioned them!

Everywhere he claims the picture says "F uck Japan" is outright false. There is no "Fu ck Japan" written anywhere; instead what we see is "dokdoneun oori ddang" (ie dokdo is our land). Those pictures were in fact drawn in the thickest heat of the Dokdo/Takeshima debates that were going on a year ago.

Imagine the kind of impression one gets without this information! And yet everyone is basing their opinions on what I call deliberate misinformation.

Something else I should assert. There is a crucial distinction to make between being anti-Japan and being anti-Dokdo-Japan. Those cartoons have a Dokdo theme going in most if not all of them and as such are anti-Dokdo-Japan (anti the Japanese government in the midst of claiming Dokdo as their territory) cartoons. Generalizing from that, the cartoons are anti-Japanese-imperialism or anti-imperialist-mindset cartoon (which is not a bad thing at all if I say so myself! And let's not forget that Korean society is in fact a recovering postcolonial one). It doesn't neccesarily follow from this that the cartoons, as misguided as they are I don't argue, are anti-Japan or, in any case, what many hangeul-illiterate readers apparently have taken them to be.

What I'm giving is a very important disclaimer, I feel, yet none of the context and certainly no critical analysis is given by the tard who has posted those pics. (The guy at aog.21 is probably the same degenerate loser at occidentalism.org, though I was unable to visit the occidental link, I don't get a web response.)

Now a question I'd ask is to what extent is Hanbando anti-Japanese movie really? It may be anti-Dokdo-Imperialist-Japan movie. But otherwise I find something very problematic about the "Hanbando is an anti-Japanese film" characterization. Critical distinctions would be useful.
Does the movie make the distinction, or are you making the distinction? It seems you are much more in tune with the distinction that the person making the movie cared to be. if you need to really deeply analyze something for a long long time and get passed the surface designation to know what it is, id say the message may still be a problem.

just an observation....
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Post by Ssang » Jul 24th, '06, 12:39

nikochanr3 wrote:Does the movie make the distinction, or are you making the distinction? It seems you are much more in tune with the distinction that the person making the movie cared to be. if you need to really deeply analyze something for a long long time and get passed the surface designation to know what it is, id say the message may still be a problem.

just an observation....
That's an intentional fallacy in one way. I think it's irrelevant since we're literally talking about the import of the way the film corresponds to reality and how it might fit in Korean society in general, in which the director makes a passive part. What the director intends is important but there is a larger context to consider.

In practice, the distinctions I pointed out tend to be conflated but that's the nature of the literal discourse of things when a current event becomes prevalent. Reactions and behaviors have contexts which are presupposed for them. My point is that those contexts become a given, and over some time forgotten, and so an error is going on when we write about what we do in this thread. (A film) being "anti-Dokdo-Japan" indeed is not the same as being anti-Japan, where the latter has much wider connotations and entails much more explicit behaviors simply not seen in the movie, judging by the reviews I've read of it. Perhaps such things are not seen in real life either! Away from the internet, Koreans and Japanese on an interpersonal level tend to get along just fine. We are thus clearly referring to a particular behaviors belonging to particular sets of information and, in many cases, making wide errors in our discussion of them.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 24th, '06, 12:48

Ssang wrote:
nikochanr3 wrote:Does the movie make the distinction, or are you making the distinction? It seems you are much more in tune with the distinction that the person making the movie cared to be. if you need to really deeply analyze something for a long long time and get passed the surface designation to know what it is, id say the message may still be a problem.

just an observation....
That's an intentional fallacy in one way. I think it's irrelevant since we're literally talking about the import of the way the film corresponds to reality and how it might fit in Korean society in general, in which the director makes a passive part. What the director intends is important but there is a larger context to consider.

In practice, the distinctions I pointed out tend to be conflated but that's the nature of the literal discourse of things when a current event becomes prevalent. Reactions and behaviors have contexts which are presupposed for them. My point is that those contexts become a given, and over some time forgotten, and so an error is going on when we write about what we do in this thread. (A film) being "anti-Dokdo-Japan" indeed is not the same as being anti-Japan, where the latter has much wider connotations and entails much more explicit behaviors simply not seen in the movie, judging by the reviews I've read of it. Perhaps such things are not seen in real life either! Away from the internet, Koreans and Japanese on an interpersonal level tend to get along just fine. We are thus clearly referring to a particular behaviors belonging to particular sets of information and, in many cases, making wide errors in our discussion of them.
my point was is the film making intending to stir ANTI DOKDO JAPAN feelings or ANTI JAPAN feelings? You have a long explanations explaining your view. I am wondering if a more casual audience not willing to examine things as closely as you do see the film and makes that same (somewhat complicated) distinction. Thats all i meant. It seems to me the filmmaker intends to stir anti japan feelings by showing the anti dokdo japan things, and not elicit as specific a reaction as you think.

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Post by Ssang » Jul 24th, '06, 12:59

nikochanr3 wrote:my point was is the film making intending to stir ANTI DOKDO JAPAN feelings or ANTI JAPAN feelings? You have a long explanations explaining your view. I am wondering if a more casual audience not willing to examine things as closely as you do see the film and makes that same (somewhat complicated) distinction. Thats all i meant. It seems to me the filmmaker intends to stir anti japan feelings by showing the anti dokdo japan things, and not elicit as specific a reaction as you think.
.
I understood your point well enough. But it misses the mark. Disregarding what I wrote or perhaps adding to it, even if the film elicits a response that blurs the distinction I noted, then all the better. My point applies in the direction of Korean audiences as well, since a reminder regarding the very etiological basis of their stance would be useful. But the real point is simply that there is a distinction to make there and it has real consequences. Whether the director himself (or his audience) makes the same mistakes we or anyone naive do is trivial. The movie can't be characterized as anti-Japan if it's contents actually aren't.

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Post by auroragb » Jul 24th, '06, 17:40

Another thing to note is that WW2 (and the build-up ~50yrs preceding) was not the first time that Japan tried to invade mainland Asia thru China and Japan. Just that it was the most successful of attempts. Japan has had a long history of raiding coastal China and Korea. So the bad blood can hardly be compared against Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor as Japan:
1. only did it once
2. Never occupied Hawaii
3. Was severely trounced by US in WW2
The above are reasons why US doesn't harbor too much anger towards Japan.

Whereas Japan has not admitted the atrocities they've committed (massacre of 300,000 civilians in nanking alone- near the entire pop of Hawaii at the time)and categorizing them as non-established historical events makes few friends.

While I cannot speak to the contents of the movie (haven't seen it). It cannot be said that the antagonism China/Korea has against Japan is completely unfounded. Tho it might be opined to be overzealous nationalism, Japan has done much it has yet to atone for
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Post by Gozen » Jul 24th, '06, 17:59

How, exactly, or inexactly, does Japan atone for the past? Are you going to tell a teenage manga fan or a member of Morning Musume that they should apologise? That even though Korea and China are now countries with plenty going for them they are still anxious to be victims? How do you explain to an overworked salaryman that although Japan killed a large number of people all those decades ago (and you have no way of knowing how many, reports vary and nobody keeps their dignity, or sticks to the truth, when insisting on victimhood), even though the still exalted Mao killed tens of millions, Japanese children and teenagers and housewives should apologise for it? Mao managed to aid and abet the deaths of millions of his own people, try asking the Chinese government to apologise for that!

The best way to atone for the past is to live decently NOW. I find that Korea and China's insistance on maintaining this hatred to be undignified, intolerant and frankly, pathetic. The same way I feel about Japanese people who still harbour dislike and racist feelings towards them or anyone else. It's avoiding reality to keep on about what they did then, as if they are still doing it now. It's pathetic....or at least it would be if it weren't so dangerous. Instead of obsessing about events that happened over half a century ago, concentrate on what is happening in the world now, living a decent life and encouraging others to do the same.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jul 24th, '06, 18:01

auroragb wrote:Another thing to note is that WW2 (and the build-up ~50yrs preceding) was not the first time that Japan tried to invade mainland Asia thru China and Japan. Just that it was the most successful of attempts. Japan has had a long history of raiding coastal China and Korea. So the bad blood can hardly be compared against Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor as Japan:
1. only did it once
2. Never occupied Hawaii
3. Was severely trounced by US in WW2
The above are reasons why US doesn't harbor too much anger towards Japan.

Whereas Japan has not admitted the atrocities they've committed (massacre of 300,000 civilians in nanking alone- near the entire pop of Hawaii at the time)and categorizing them as non-established historical events makes few friends.

While I cannot speak to the contents of the movie (haven't seen it). It cannot be said that the antagonism China/Korea has against Japan is completely unfounded. Tho it might be opined to be overzealous nationalism, Japan has done much it has yet to atone for
soon there will be an extremely small amount of people who were around for the events you stated. Japan was honestly a different country at that time. the "trouncing" by america turned it into a totally different country. there is no imperalism now, theres almost a desparate attempt to avoid everyone except trading wise.

in all of these countries, the constant bringing up of things they dont like about the other countries, bad things in the past, and attempts to fuel a negative nationalism (anything that makes you HATE another country is not particularlly positive) strikes me as hateful, and a waste of time. what is accomplished by fanning the flames?
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Post by auroragb » Jul 24th, '06, 23:37

nikochanr3 wrote:soon there will be an extremely small amount of people who were around for the events you stated. Japan was honestly a different country at that time. the "trouncing" by america turned it into a totally different country. there is no imperalism now, theres almost a desparate attempt to avoid everyone except trading wise.

in all of these countries, the constant bringing up of things they dont like about the other countries, bad things in the past, and attempts to fuel a negative nationalism (anything that makes you HATE another country is not particularlly positive) strikes me as hateful, and a waste of time. what is accomplished by fanning the flames?
Well, there are even fewer people who were around when slavery was in America. Yet I see constant reminders in the US and plenty of resentment even today. Similarly between the French and English over wars. There are always those who will dredge up old hatred for their own purposes
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Post by groink » Jul 25th, '06, 00:26

auroragb wrote:There are always those who will dredge up old hatred for their own purposes
Yes.... Hatred transmits from generation to generation. That's why I think it is very important for the Koreans to just drop the hate for Japan issue NOW and apply their focus on something else. If you're brought up in a hostile household where your parents hate X and Y, then more likely YOU will also hate X and Y, regardless of what the reasons are. Why? Because it was programmed in your head at a very early age, and you really don't know any better. If you're brought up to feel like you're a victim, you WILL be a victim your entire life.

--- groink

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Post by auroragb » Jul 25th, '06, 05:00

However, without an olive branch, there is little incentive to drop hatred when it is useful as a scapegoat for things to blame on
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Post by captain-nippon » Jul 25th, '06, 09:35

I am going to try to make my post related to this movie. As far as I am concern this movie is full of Kimchi...or shits...Now I realize this director is probably a dickhead or some crazy Nationalist whom is out for some Japanese blood. Of course, he's can't do it in real life so he;ll do in this movie.

As for the movie it's fictional, ALL MADE UP. I just think koreans are very funny people see how they can USE this for their owe purpose. I don't really know how the hell korean can relate this movie to Dokdo at all...The funny thing is, the movie never even talk about Dokdo, the entire movie is about the 2 koreans unification. The Japanese as bastards are they are in the movie will do anything to stop the unification...

This movie isn't about unification of koreans and all that BS...It's really about getting about public reactions and glorifying the korean people. It's all about build a state of Nationalism in Korea. In the movie, the korean empress fought off the Japanese with her dying breath. When Nationalism become a standard HATING THE JAPANESE is NEXT BEST THING.

The more important question is how long can Nationalism maintain its power before it consume and destroy itself? How long does the korean plan to hate the Japanese? Will this Hate lead to WAR with Japan...If did does, Pray to God they better WIN.

We all know about WWII and how the Japanes enslave the Korean people. Ghenghis Khan and the Tang did the same thing to korea. So in korea, all this so call directors can make up all their **** about japanese, they can even portrait japanese as 1 feet midget for all i care...korean can portrait japanese as inferior people or country or whatever...

True be Told, be alway the TRUE...

People like me will alway laught at koreans for their insecurity and their past...We all know that's not what happen in 1905. So please korea... Stop the Inferior Complex, it's no good for korean in general. It's Laughtable..

Just remember, Korea need Japan but Japan don't need Korea. Do korean really think that korea will achieve economy power to rival japan? I Dont think so...China could and will in 30 years, korea won't because she does not have the population. there's 47 millions people in S. korea VS 130 millions in Japan...300 millions in the USA if you want to know. If korea and Japan STOP ALL TRADE, S. korea economy will Collapse to HELL. NOT to mention NO more steal japnese technologies.

So is it really in Korea best interest to HATE JAPANESE for the next 5 generations?

probably NOT.

So what is the point of making a movie to BREAD HATE among koreans...The biggest threat to S. korean is North korean. All this hate toward the japanese while North korea is testing missiles...This is why i found all this so damn funny. What happen if N. Korea invade S. korea? Blame the Japs....?????

We Vietnamese fought a war for over 30 years. The Americans BLOW the living shits out of our country. KIlled over 10 millions Vietnamese. The americans bomb every inch of Vietnam for 13 days straingth before they retreated. Not to mention the countless villagers they murdered and raped and burned.

When was the last time you see Vietnam **** and complaint about the Vietnam wars? Did the American or the french ever even once apologize to us? But in korean and China hate Japan is like a norm...What's the POINT though? What the #1 country Vietnamese want to mergrate to? AMERICA...

Korea is a emerging as a world economy, the 10th biggest in the world. Why replace all that with HATE.

HATE BREAD HATE...Korean might think this is a movie, all fun and entertainment, after all, it's fictional. Do Japnese think that way? Do a Nationalist japanese think that way? Is being a korean Nationalist any right than be a Japanese Nationalist, if So, than what is wrong with being a Japanese nationalist? Don't tell me it's OK to be a korean Nationalist but WRONG to be a Japanese Nationalist ...REally?

Yes, there is a japanese comic book about korean being inferior people and hate koreans in Japan. But don't tell me koreans only start hating Japanese after the comic book was publicised. It's WRONG for Japan to have material that degrade korean peoples. Korean degrade Japanese all the time in media, drama and movie. What the hell do the koreans expect Japan to do? Sit on their ass all day and listen to all the HATE coming from Korea? Bullshits.

Here's picture of Dokdo

[img]http://www.geocities.com/mlovmo/img_01.jpg[/img]

http://www.geocities.com/mlovmo/page4.html

Is this little island really worth a people live? Is there any value this piece of **** islands have over 1 person?

[img]http://www.geocities.com/mlovmo/korean_peninsula88.gif[/img]

If you look at the map it right between korea and Japan...So each country take a island and build a shrine of something....

Korean/China/ and Japan are so damn funny....... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Post by Ssang » Jul 25th, '06, 14:49

Your post is invalid bull c-n. That's why it's difficult taking you for more than a troll. You assume constructs and analogies that I don't agree with, your thinking is fallacious, your information is incorrect.

-Kdramas and films do not degrade Japanese; if anything it's the quite the opposite! You think Mister Goodbye degrades Japanese but that you think so is just an example of how hideously incapable of objectivity you've become.
-You are trivializing racism and that's a huge mistake. Also, your frequent analogies relating to Vietnam and the USA are specious. Not only do some Vietnamese do continue to resent America, the USA isn't a neighboring country, there's no backdrop of deep-rooted rivalism going on, and the USA is not supporting a post-war tradition of racism and supremacy, nor was their war one involving systematic atrocity. Is Japan involved in such? Chinese and Koreans think so. Some in this thread have made the point that other countries aren't pissed at Japan and that only Korea and China are. But what kind of reasoning is this? Why would other countries care about sociocultural political events relating to deep histories among particular nations that have nothing to do with them? If there are reasons to resent a nation, there can be reasons to forgive or forget. Some countries have the former, not all of these have the latter.
- All nationalism can be bad if it's unreasonable. We should take a care to criticize such in turn by respective contexts. But we're not talking about a oneway street. Not sure why (though it's not really much of a wonder why) c-n and others in this thread immediately assume Japan have no real faults. You gloss over their offenses as if they have no factor. Also, we're not merely referring to "the past"; to assume the past is just the past and has no relevance in the present is ignorant. The reason why relations are bad between peoples is because actions from both sides fuel it. The past is still alive in current events, politics, and the minds of citizens whose lives may have been effected by it.
-Misinformation goes both ways too! Does anyone here presume to have perfect knowledge and to be clear of bias for this thread? Judging by the awful analogies going on, I can't believe it's likely. I don't believe it of myself either.
- Following from the above, intercultural behavior of the bad sort (because there many sorts in fact) that go on between Korea and Japan need to be described accurately away from these shallow blame games. How would I describe it? If Korean nationalism is antagonistic to Japan, it's usually in the mode of a reaction or defense, and at least it isn't racist. Even Hanbando is a good example of just what I mean. None of us have seen the movie, but it seems to be political in nature, and judging by reviews and interviews it's in part inspired by current events. It's not, frankly, a movie hailing for the enslavement of Japan or anything like that. As such, it's not really anti-Japan. It's anti the politics of Japan. It's a movie about history and political tensions. Japanese nationalism on the other hand, I've noticed tend to have very bad regularities about it in that they are particularly racist and directly offensive. Hanbando might make a fuss about Japan in the prevention of a unified Korea or whatever its plot is, but at least it doesn't assume racist attitudes toward Japanese beyond the politics. I can't say the same for those hate comic books or countless things I hear from even their nonJapanese lapdog nationalists.
- Following upon a point groink made, hatred is trasmitted generations onward, but so is racism. Hatred is "bread", and that's a part of the issue that needs to be addressed on both sides, not just the Korean. As for Japan, what kind of message does one give to the kids if their leaders glorify Japan's imperialist past without censure (however attrocious that past is), or when their governors (like Shintaro Ishihara) are racist assholes, when they study distorted history, and live in lingering cultures that would teach them to discriminate against other asian peoples? Do you see a pattern? Because I do. If I am misinformed here in anyway, then I'd like to know. I believe Korean nationalism where Japan is concerned needs to be understood in terms of Japanese nationalism. That is, the latter is the former's context.
- What about this very thread? And its very starter? Rude and nonsensical posts by lakeys isn't going to help in any regard. Show respect for a subject by being rational about it. You don't do that by participating in closeminded and offensive diatribes seeking to denigrate Koreans with a wide brush at every turn you get. If anything else the victim complex is seeming more and more like a meme you are hoping to standardize and place over Koreans and Chinese while unduly ignoring the nature of the complex behaviors that go on between them and Japan. You give oversimplifciations and they rip events from their contexts and deliberately misappreciates them or misrepresents them, in favor of Japan.

Bottom line, Koreans and Japanese should both effort to move on and they do move on. But political actions from either country can't be ignored and when they take place, do in their own contexts which can be historical. Try not to take such from their contexts and trivialize those context. Try not ascribe all the blame on Koreans. If we're going to point fingers, at least we should assess a situation properly and be fair about it. Blame goes to Japan just as well (no, they're not innocent either believe it or not! ) Blame also goes to all the stupid trolls on the internet whose commentary are nothing more than inflammatory diatribe, itself racist and full of hatred, working to no one's benefit. If we, as nonentity internet observers, can't even get own crap together and are hypocrites, then what can we expect from society at large?

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Post by kaname » Jul 25th, '06, 21:58

cgozun wrote:There is not one person who's not troubled by the past. I think William Faulkner said it best, "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

A better one to remember is Georges Santayana....Those who forget the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat them.

The korean directors rhetoric is exactly that...people have made the mistake in the past of offering their "opinion" in film, on air and in print. Some of it intentional propaganda. What I mean by this is he knows or should know that what he is doing is building tension. And that tension can become worse and develop into something else. Now i wont liken it to Mein Kampf...o hell yes i will...This movie as the director presents it is indeed intended to raise his nations level of patriotism but at the expense of another nation and people....so was Mein Kampf. Read it as "everything is the jews fault". Now read this directors interviews and you can easily interpret this work as "everything wrong on the Korean peninsula is the japs fault" It seems he believes that the peninsula would not be segregated if the Japanese had not invaded. You have to Google him and search out his interviews to really "hear" him.

Now maybe he does not see this as a mistake but he is certainly repeating it. It is never in the best interest of any people or nation to raise themselves up at the expense of another- NEVER!!

It is highly improbable that either nation would ever attack any other (and as both are allies of the US- I dont think the US would allow it). BUT, you build enough ill-will and as they say "Sure its improbable, but not impossible"
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Post by kaname » Jul 25th, '06, 22:00

Gozen wrote:How, exactly, or inexactly, does Japan atone for the past? Are you going to tell a teenage manga fan or a member of Morning Musume that they should apologise? That even though Korea and China are now countries with plenty going for them they are still anxious to be victims? How do you explain to an overworked salaryman that although Japan killed a large number of people all those decades ago (and you have no way of knowing how many, reports vary and nobody keeps their dignity, or sticks to the truth, when insisting on victimhood), even though the still exalted Mao killed tens of millions, Japanese children and teenagers and housewives should apologise for it? Mao managed to aid and abet the deaths of millions of his own people, try asking the Chinese government to apologise for that!

The best way to atone for the past is to live decently NOW. I find that Korea and China's insistance on maintaining this hatred to be undignified, intolerant and frankly, pathetic. The same way I feel about Japanese people who still harbour dislike and racist feelings towards them or anyone else. It's avoiding reality to keep on about what they did then, as if they are still doing it now. It's pathetic....or at least it would be if it weren't so dangerous. Instead of obsessing about events that happened over half a century ago, concentrate on what is happening in the world now, living a decent life and encouraging others to do the same.
YEAH
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Post by kaname » Jul 25th, '06, 22:05

auroragb wrote:
nikochanr3 wrote:soon there will be an extremely small amount of people who were around for the events you stated. Japan was honestly a different country at that time. the "trouncing" by america turned it into a totally different country. there is no imperalism now, theres almost a desparate attempt to avoid everyone except trading wise.

in all of these countries, the constant bringing up of things they dont like about the other countries, bad things in the past, and attempts to fuel a negative nationalism (anything that makes you HATE another country is not particularlly positive) strikes me as hateful, and a waste of time. what is accomplished by fanning the flames?
Well, there are even fewer people who were around when slavery was in America. Yet I see constant reminders in the US and plenty of resentment even today. Similarly between the French and English over wars. There are always those who will dredge up old hatred for their own purposes
LMAO...the next person that tells me I've been holding em down for 400 years is getting told to take a remedial math class....dont get me started on the "black thing" we wouldn't understand...
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Post by kaname » Jul 25th, '06, 22:08

Ssang wrote:
nikochanr3 wrote:my point was is the film making intending to stir ANTI DOKDO JAPAN feelings or ANTI JAPAN feelings? You have a long explanations explaining your view. I am wondering if a more casual audience not willing to examine things as closely as you do see the film and makes that same (somewhat complicated) distinction. Thats all i meant. It seems to me the filmmaker intends to stir anti japan feelings by showing the anti dokdo japan things, and not elicit as specific a reaction as you think.
.
I understood your point well enough. But it misses the mark. Disregarding what I wrote or perhaps adding to it, even if the film elicits a response that blurs the distinction I noted, then all the better. My point applies in the direction of Korean audiences as well, since a reminder regarding the very etiological basis of their stance would be useful. But the real point is simply that there is a distinction to make there and it has real consequences. Whether the director himself (or his audience) makes the same mistakes we or anyone naive do is trivial. The movie can't be characterized as anti-Japan if it's contents actually aren't.

WRONG...read the directors interviews...not what is posted here...and stop trying to use big words please, you're making my head hurt.
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Post by kaname » Jul 25th, '06, 22:12

Ssang wrote:Your post is invalid bull c-n. That's why it's difficult taking you for more than a troll. You assume constructs and analogies that I don't agree with, your thinking is fallacious, your information is incorrect.

-Kdramas and films do not degrade Japanese; if anything it's the quite the opposite! You think Mister Goodbye degrades Japanese but that you think so is just an example of how hideously incapable of objectivity you've become.
-You are trivializing racism and that's a huge mistake. Also, your frequent analogies relating to Vietnam and the USA are specious. Not only do some Vietnamese do continue to resent America, the USA isn't a neighboring country, there's no backdrop of deep-rooted rivalism going on, and the USA is not supporting a post-war tradition of racism and supremacy, nor was their war one involving systematic atrocity. Is Japan involved in such? Chinese and Koreans think so. Some in this thread have made the point that other countries aren't pissed at Japan and that only Korea and China are. But what kind of reasoning is this? Why would other countries care about sociocultural political events relating to deep histories among particular nations that have nothing to do with them? If there are reasons to resent a nation, there can be reasons to forgive or forget. Some countries have the former, not all of these have the latter.
- All nationalism can be bad if it's unreasonable. We should take a care to criticize such in turn by respective contexts. But we're not talking about a oneway street. Not sure why (though it's not really much of a wonder why) c-n and others in this thread immediately assume Japan have no real faults. You gloss over their offenses as if they have no factor. Also, we're not merely referring to "the past"; to assume the past is just the past and has no relevance in the present is ignorant. The reason why relations are bad between peoples is because actions from both sides fuel it. The past is still alive in current events, politics, and the minds of citizens whose lives may have been effected by it.
-Misinformation goes both ways too! Does anyone here presume to have perfect knowledge and to be clear of bias for this thread? Judging by the awful analogies going on, I can't believe it's likely. I don't believe it of myself either.
- Following from the above, intercultural behavior of the bad sort (because there many sorts in fact) that go on between Korea and Japan need to be described accurately away from these shallow blame games. How would I describe it? If Korean nationalism is antagonistic to Japan, it's usually in the mode of a reaction or defense, and at least it isn't racist. Even Hanbando is a good example of just what I mean. None of us have seen the movie, but it seems to be political in nature, and judging by reviews and interviews it's in part inspired by current events. It's not, frankly, a movie hailing for the enslavement of Japan or anything like that. As such, it's not really anti-Japan. It's anti the politics of Japan. It's a movie about history and political tensions. Japanese nationalism on the other hand, I've noticed tend to have very bad regularities about it in that they are particularly racist and directly offensive. Hanbando might make a fuss about Japan in the prevention of a unified Korea or whatever its plot is, but at least it doesn't assume racist attitudes toward Japanese beyond the politics. I can't say the same for those hate comic books or countless things I hear from even their nonJapanese lapdog nationalists.
- Following upon a point groink made, hatred is trasmitted generations onward, but so is racism. Hatred is "bread", and that's a part of the issue that needs to be addressed on both sides, not just the Korean. As for Japan, what kind of message does one give to the kids if their leaders glorify Japan's imperialist past without censure (however attrocious that past is), or when their governors (like Shintaro Ishihara) are racist assholes, when they study distorted history, and live in lingering cultures that would teach them to discriminate against other asian peoples? Do you see a pattern? Because I do. If I am misinformed here in anyway, then I'd like to know. I believe Korean nationalism where Japan is concerned needs to be understood in terms of Japanese nationalism. That is, the latter is the former's context.
- What about this very thread? And its very starter? Rude and nonsensical posts by lakeys isn't going to help in any regard. Show respect for a subject by being rational about it. You don't do that by participating in closeminded and offensive diatribes seeking to denigrate Koreans with a wide brush at every turn you get. If anything else the victim complex is seeming more and more like a meme you are hoping to standardize and place over Koreans and Chinese while unduly ignoring the nature of the complex behaviors that go on between them and Japan. You give oversimplifciations and they rip events from their contexts and deliberately misappreciates them or misrepresents them, in favor of Japan.

Bottom line, Koreans and Japanese should both effort to move on and they do move on. But political actions from either country can't be ignored and when they take place, do in their own contexts which can be historical. Try not to take such from their contexts and trivialize those context. Try not ascribe all the blame on Koreans. If we're going to point fingers, at least we should assess a situation properly and be fair about it. Blame goes to Japan just as well (no, they're not innocent either believe it or not! ) Blame also goes to all the stupid trolls on the internet whose commentary are nothing more than inflammatory diatribe, itself racist and full of hatred, working to no one's benefit. If we, as nonentity internet observers, can't even get own crap together and are hypocrites, then what can we expect from society at large?
i didnt see this but man ssang you are really an ass (remember moron you started the name calling) to say the things you say because someone disagrees with you or has another opinion. I suggest you re-read your posts because apparently you are the most intelligent person on the planet and the only one qualified to have an opinion- moron
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