No More Torrents From Japan?

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No More Torrents From Japan?

Post by bmwracer » Mar 16th, '08, 05:27

Anyone want to comment on this?

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/15/ja ... e-sharers/

Japanese ISPs To Ban File Sharers
Duncan Riley

Japan has decided to beat France and the United Kingdom (both who have similar proposals) to become the first country to ban file sharers from the internet.

Oddly the agreement to do so has not come from the Japanese Government, but from Japan’s four internet service provider organizations after pressure (not surprisingly) from the record and movie industries. According to Torrent Freak, the agreement would see copyright holders tracking down file-sharers on the Internet using “special detection software” and then notifying ISPs of alleged infringers. File sharers will initially receive a warning for a first offense, then be disconnected for subsequent offenses, eventually be disconnected from the internet permanently (it wasn’t clear whether the agreement is a three strikes proposal).

The process will formally commence in April and will primarily target users of Winny, the most popular file sharing network in Japan.
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Post by tsurashi313 » Mar 16th, '08, 05:40

I also saw this in Yahoo. So will this affect us? I mean this is a "good" thing but what happened to the meaning of "privacy"?
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Post by bmwracer » Mar 16th, '08, 05:51

tsurashi313 wrote:I also saw this in Yahoo. So will this affect us?
I've no idea...
I mean this is a "good" thing but what happened to the meaning of "privacy"?
This is Japan... Their rules are different, apparently.

I suppose you could look at what happened to Napster here in the States. :-(
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Post by amrayu » Mar 16th, '08, 06:05

Winny is sorta dead at least for dramas. A lot of drama encoders have switched to another P2P system.
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Post by groink » Mar 16th, '08, 06:12

This is why groink-san resorts to TLS/SSL FTP.
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Post by bmwracer » Mar 16th, '08, 06:15

amrayu wrote:Winny is sorta dead at least for dramas. A lot of drama encoders have switched to another P2P system.
So does that mean the crackdown in Japan has little effect on the BT world here at D-Addicts?
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Post by nanikore » Mar 16th, '08, 06:51

the article says "they will work with copyright holders to track down copyright infringing file-sharers". if the doramas aren't ripped from DVDs or anything... they wouldn't have any kind of copyright tag or anything trackable though right?? *not sure*
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Post by groink » Mar 16th, '08, 06:58

nanikore wrote:the article says "they will work with copyright holders to track down copyright infringing file-sharers". if the doramas aren't ripped from DVDs or anything... they wouldn't have any kind of copyright tag or anything trackable though right?? *not sure*
Hi! I'm groink... I work for JASRAC.

Just because these guys work for these organizations does not mean they're not one of us. Detecting copyright infringement by social engineering means is more effective than any technological means.

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Post by hikkichan » Mar 16th, '08, 07:18

NHK has been working on a way of detecting if recorded items have been illegally shared. Some kind of encoding for TV shows.

Anyhows, it probably will have an impact of operations here. I know I'm most likely going to stop recording and sharing files here and at other sites. The majority of uploaders here get their files from other p2p services. With the crackdown, the files will not be appearing for the most part.

While it talks about Winny, the main way that ISPs will be able to track down people that use large amounts of bandwidth. Even if individuals go secure with their uploads, the spike in bandwidth usage would be pretty obvious. Of course, maybe I'm talking out of my ass in assuming that ISPs can track individual bandwidth usage.

Social Engineering wouldn't be much of a problem on this site, I think I'm one of the few members that actually provide directly from Japan.

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Post by groink » Mar 16th, '08, 07:47

hikkichan wrote:Even if individuals go secure with their uploads, the spike in bandwidth usage would be pretty obvious. Of course, maybe I'm talking out of my ass in assuming that ISPs can track individual bandwidth usage.
Interesting you mention this. This is the exact logic Comcast uses. And in a way, I totally agree with it as well. In short, most companies will believe that there is NO WAY an individual can ring up so much bandwidth usage AND be doing things legally. Even if you watched YouTube videos all day long, it won't come even close to just a few hours of P2P'ing. The key to P2P is uploading. If you eliminate uploading, then P2P is shot all to hell. This is why, in a strange way, that P2P is virtually illegal - not because of the protocol itself, but because of the content transmitted using the technology.

Same thing with DVD blanks. I find it a total JOKE when I see people buying spools and spools of blank DVDs at Best Buy. I mean, how can a 40-hour/week working Joe produce 450GB of totally legal content (100 discs x 4.5GB each), and keep coming back month after month and buying MORE spools of blanks? And why are 500GB and 1TB hard drives selling like hot cakes??? This is the logic that is being formed. And, quite honestly, you really can't justify it as being 100-percent legal. You couldn't even film high-definition video of your girlfriend on a camcorder for a month and produce that much content.

This is why in the U.S., net neutrality is having a hard time being passed. And in Japan, companies like NHK and JASRAC can apply the logic I explained in a court of law, and the judge and jury will buy it.

Going back to P2P. The only way to defeat this in Japan would be to go back to the days of snail mail. But instead of VHS and betamax tapes, start mailing hard drives and DVDRs. Also in Japan, there are many legal ways of obtaining dramas, including HOBANKYO and such. So in a way hikkichan is correct that this legislation will have an effect on RAWs finding their way out of Japan.

Then maybe punk kids will stop ragging my ass when I upload TV captures!

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Post by Bill.Zeebub » Mar 16th, '08, 08:56

hikkichan wrote:While it talks about Winny, the main way that ISPs will be able to track down people that use large amounts of bandwidth. Even if individuals go secure with their uploads, the spike in bandwidth usage would be pretty obvious. Of course, maybe I'm talking out of my ass in assuming that ISPs can track individual bandwidth usage.

Social Engineering wouldn't be much of a problem on this site, I think I'm one of the few members that actually provide directly from Japan.
You can always use a seedbox located in another country for high bandwidth seeding and torrenting. You'll just upload your files to your seedbox by ftp capping the uploading speed and let the seedbox do the high bandwith seeding, your ISP wont notice a thing.

Seedboxes aren't free they'll cost from 25$ to 100$ /month.
some links and info from torrent-source http://torrent-source.net/?p=64

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Post by groink » Mar 16th, '08, 09:14

Bill.Zeebub wrote:Seedboxes aren't free they'll cost from 25$ to 100$ /month.
You're not kidding about the price. But I don't get it - these guys are basically selling servers! The list calls them seedboxes, but they're nothing more than shared or dedicated servers. Keep in mind that most P2P'ers are non-technical - you know, everyday folks. They already find configuring BT a challenge, yet alone their own computer. So I would think these services would be quite the challenge regardless of the expense. For the technodweeb, you really can't stop him from downloading because his desire to succeed in downloading far exceeds any one organization desire to stop him. That's why purchasing a seedbox at $50 to $100/month is nothing to him.

Also, like I said before, Japan really doesn't share as much on-line as they do in other countries since Japan has a TV show rental system in place. For less yen than purchasing broadband Internet, you can rent an entire months worth of TV dramas and variety shows.

Remember - this affects ONLY Japan. If you rely on RAWs coming out of Japan, then you may have a problem. But for folks like myself who obtain a majority of our entertainment from sources other than Japan (pay TV, satellite TV, snail-mail trading, etc.) it doesn't affect us at all. KIKU-TV and the California TV stations once again become more valuable, like they did a few years ago before fansubbing became the mainstream source. And as long as there are HOBANKYO-run rental shops across the west, all the RAWs you see here on D-Addicts can still be obtained. Maybe not within hours of airing, but still you can get them if you're willing to wait a week or two.

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Post by Argentumfeles » Mar 16th, '08, 09:34

Actually the article now also has appeared on Torrentfreak (leading copyright blog).
http://torrentfreak.com/japanese-isps-a ... et-080315/

In 2006 apparently the government intervened, so I wonder if this initiative of the 4 isps will have a long life.

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Post by Takekaze » Mar 16th, '08, 12:26

I think the problem will be a lot more complex than the article says. "File sharing", well, that's a nice term, but not all files shared are ripped movies or records (guess who's the one screaming loudest?). What about... Girls Locks? Radio show, features several actresses throughout the week (Kuriyama and Horikita have shows in this program). I've been downloading Kuriyama's shows from Share ever since she started with it.

If this "ban" will increase a DVD output for tv series, I have no problems with that, honestly. If it means I get Genjuro Hissatsuken on DVD and don't have to download it (which, in this case, meant waiting ages for the episodes to appear on Share), then I'm all for it.

If it hits torrents or Winny, well, fine. Winny's been dead for a while and the Japanese don't use torrents as much as we do. Might it hit Share? Possibly, but Share is also quite old by now. Might it hit Perfect Dark? We'll see.

And I don't really see how they could possibly argue that downloading a RAW of a series that's currently running violates the copyright. That's like passing me the episode on a VHS tape. Heck, last I recall is that they had to ease the law on recordings of tv stuff on HD recorders over there (you were allowed to make one copy of it).

They should rather check what files are shared. If I download an ISO of a movie that can be bought in stores, well, duh... But if I download, let's say, the recording of a radio show, or of a normal tv show (something like SMAP)... how the F is anyone supposed to get that without recording/downloading it?

If the stations would develop some sort of online shop, where I could buy downloadable content (shows, series, etc), I would use it right away.

The solution for the issue won't be an outright ban of all file sharing (someone will find a way around that anyway -someone always will-, and then there's the good old issue: market, how many ISPs might lose customers with this "brilliant" idea?) Guess they'll learn that the hard way.

We'll see how this will develop. Not to mention that the article says "record and movie industry". This will take a while to bring a proper solution.

April... that's when the forth Inspector Kariya will run... Bah! I need that. I need my Aki fix. @TBS: publish the Kariya series on DVD, I will happily buy it.

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Post by hikkichan » Mar 16th, '08, 14:05

Takekaze wrote: And I don't really see how they could possibly argue that downloading a RAW of a series that's currently running violates the copyright. That's like passing me the episode on a VHS tape. Heck, last I recall is that they had to ease the law on recordings of tv stuff on HD recorders over there (you were allowed to make one copy of it).
A number of reasons. The main reasons that TV shows will go on the air here is to draw in an audience... and because of the audience, they can land big-time sponsors and rake in some big money.

Now, the people that share these items cut out the commercials... which is the airtime which the sponsors paid for to hawk their products.

One of the big problems with this (here in Japan) is that people have been producing DVDs and selling them off.

Also, with file-sharing and the removal of commercials, the people/companies responsible for these shows aren't making any money... and in their eyes, they're losing money.

Also, if it's being shown abroad, the companies still make no money as the products their sponsors are advertising are only available in Japan... and again, their programs are being aired without their consent.

----

Where's the information you heard about them easing up on Hi-Vision recordings out here? All digital contents have the "Copy Once" option encrypted in... I don't see this changing. I also read that they wanted to add a life span to that "Copy Once" encryption.

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Post by ainawy » Mar 16th, '08, 14:26

i really dont understand what everyone is saying ... so in simple words .. this would mean .. what !!

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Post by yt_toshi » Mar 16th, '08, 14:52

ainawy wrote:i really dont understand what everyone is saying ... so in simple words .. this would mean .. what !!
Real simple...it means that anyone in Japan who gets caught distributing copyright material (music and movies) via programs like Winny will get ban from their Internet Provider.

For more information, please read the link that the original poster put up on the first page of this thread :-)
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Post by ainawy » Mar 16th, '08, 14:54

so fansubbing is going to stop .. !!!!
or will things go on as they are

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Post by yt_toshi » Mar 16th, '08, 14:58

ainawy wrote:so fansubbing is going to stop .. !!!!
or will things go on as they are
Who knows, but don't go :offtopic:
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Post by ainawy » Mar 16th, '08, 15:00

it may seem that i'm annoying you with my questions but sometimes i get thickheaded specially when i get shocking news

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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 16th, '08, 15:11

but a drama won't be labeled as copyrighted unless it's licensed,right?
is it not?
is it only japan affected?then k and c materials are left out of this ..

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Post by yt_toshi » Mar 16th, '08, 15:21

@ainawy: I'm not annoyed at all by your questions, but if you read the article, it not too difficult to understand what it is about.

@elly_ketz: Not exactly since dramas are also copyrighted, just like records and movies. Right now, this only affects Japan, but it could spread out to other countries if it becomes successful in stopping the distribution of copyrighted material. However, like anything else, people will always find ways to get around the system.
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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 16th, '08, 15:32

yt_toshi wrote:@elly_ketz: Not exactly since dramas are also copyrighted, just like records and movies. Right now, this only affects Japan, but it could spread out to other countries if it becomes successful in stopping the distribution of copyrighted material. However, like anything else, people will always find ways to get around the system.
I might get a heart attack anytime by now..
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Post by Rori » Mar 16th, '08, 16:04

Oh my god! They can't do that in April! Gokusen 3 starts then!
Joke really.

Hope it doesn't affect us too much.
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Post by bmwracer » Mar 16th, '08, 16:09

Rori wrote:They can't do that in April! Gokusen 3 starts then!
Joke really.
Gokusen 3 is a joke.

As was Gokusen 2.
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Post by gryzze » Mar 16th, '08, 16:19

I guess we'll have to wait a season or two and see... :-)
bmwracer wrote:Gokusen 3 is a joke.

As was Gokusen 2.
Yeah, missing Gokusen 3 wouldn't exactly kill me.

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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 16th, '08, 16:23

now, Japan's technology somehow worries me LOL
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Post by lynchmob72 » Mar 16th, '08, 16:38

I understand why sponsors might be upset, but what makes them think we would buy their products anyway? Seriously, I may not even be the target audience. If i'm watching something, and invite 30 friends over to see it, and they don't buy anything ... is that illegal?
I can lend you a DVD from my hand to yours, but i can't send it to you digitally? If anything needs to change, it's the handling of material aired to the public. Sponsors paid for it already, and if it is free for the public, shouldn't it become PUBLIC property?

Eh, just a thought.
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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 16th, '08, 16:45

there's a lot of commercials on the tv...some boring and some funny..but it doesn't mean when we watch it,we'll automatically buy the item..
but then again,,we could download drama with commercials..to satisfy the sponsors?
to think that their products aren't sold here..well at least their products gain popularity..
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Post by bmwracer » Mar 16th, '08, 17:06

If the studio knuckleheads would make the dramas available on DVD at reasonable prices AND with English subtitles, maybe there wouldn't be this entire torrent/fansub subculture...

I'd be more than willing to pay for the original DVDs with English subs, but they just don't exist... And the studios apparently don't care about the market outside of Japan for some idiotic reason... :scratch:

It's just like the music industry here in the States: they were reaming everyone by never dropping their CD prices until the whole Napster revolution gave them a wake up call....

Well, this is Japan's wake up call.
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Post by Rori » Mar 16th, '08, 17:19

bmwracer wrote:
Rori wrote:They can't do that in April! Gokusen 3 starts then!
Joke really.
Gokusen 3 is a joke.

As was Gokusen 2.
?

We all have different likes. Just because you're not going to like it doesn't mean I ain't either. =/
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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 16th, '08, 17:39

bmwracer wrote:If the studio knuckleheads would make the dramas available on DVD at reasonable prices AND with English subtitles, maybe there wouldn't be this entire torrent/fansub subculture...

I'd be more than willing to pay for the original DVDs with English subs, but they just don't exist... And the studios apparently don't care about the market outside of Japan for some idiotic reason... :scratch:

It's just like the music industry here in the States: they were reaming everyone by never dropping their CD prices until the whole Napster revolution gave them a wake up call....

Well, this is Japan's wake up call.
I totally agree with you..
I hate having to use yesasia..
dvd boxes for drama here is quite pricey and I think fansub subtitle is way higher quality though..
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Post by Rori » Mar 16th, '08, 17:48

To be honest this whole ordeal wouldn't bother me either if they'd release the original DVD's with english subs. I'd be just as willing to buy them too.
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Post by teukimai » Mar 16th, '08, 20:25

EHHHHH!!!!!!!! NANDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHYYY!!!!!!!!!!!?????

that mean no jdrama T T

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Post by groink » Mar 16th, '08, 20:30

Did anyone even read my pervious post on page 1?!?!?!?
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Post by doink-chan » Mar 16th, '08, 23:44

Takekaze wrote:I think the problem will be a lot more complex than the article says. "File sharing", well, that's a nice term, but not all files shared are ripped movies or records (guess who's the one screaming loudest?). What about... Girls Locks? Radio show, features several actresses throughout the week (Kuriyama and Horikita have shows in this program). I've been downloading Kuriyama's shows from Share ever since she started with it.

If this "ban" will increase a DVD output for tv series, I have no problems with that, honestly. If it means I get Genjuro Hissatsuken on DVD and don't have to download it (which, in this case, meant waiting ages for the episodes to appear on Share), then I'm all for it.

If it hits torrents or Winny, well, fine. Winny's been dead for a while and the Japanese don't use torrents as much as we do. Might it hit Share? Possibly, but Share is also quite old by now. Might it hit Perfect Dark? We'll see.

And I don't really see how they could possibly argue that downloading a RAW of a series that's currently running violates the copyright. That's like passing me the episode on a VHS tape. Heck, last I recall is that they had to ease the law on recordings of tv stuff on HD recorders over there (you were allowed to make one copy of it).

They should rather check what files are shared. If I download an ISO of a movie that can be bought in stores, well, duh... But if I download, let's say, the recording of a radio show, or of a normal tv show (something like SMAP)... how the F is anyone supposed to get that without recording/downloading it?

If the stations would develop some sort of online shop, where I could buy downloadable content (shows, series, etc), I would use it right away.

The solution for the issue won't be an outright ban of all file sharing (someone will find a way around that anyway -someone always will-, and then there's the good old issue: market, how many ISPs might lose customers with this "brilliant" idea?) Guess they'll learn that the hard way.

We'll see how this will develop. Not to mention that the article says "record and movie industry". This will take a while to bring a proper solution.

April... that's when the forth Inspector Kariya will run... Bah! I need that. I need my Aki fix. @TBS: publish the Kariya series on DVD, I will happily buy it.
If there's anything that I've learned about file sharing, it's that people will always find a way around attempts to stop it. The software will probably be made even more anonymous and encrypted so that there is no way an ISP can catch a file sharer. The article from Yomiuri said it mainly targets Winny, which is pretty much dead and has already been unsafe for years. I don't know if it will effect Share or Perfect Dark, though I can see Share being targeted as well. Still, as I said before, people who are really dedicated to file sharing will always find a workaround.
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Post by lynchmob72 » Mar 17th, '08, 02:07

groink wrote:Did anyone even read my pervious post on page 1?!?!?!?
Yes, we did! lol. You have 4 posts on the first page. I think we all understand what your saying, but we just wish the machine that runs it all will change. People will always be people ....
That may work for us now ... but for how long?



btw .. lmao @ Pervious!
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Post by doink-chan » Mar 17th, '08, 21:13

Danny Choo's thoughts: http://www.dannychoo.com/blog_entry/eng ... +in+Japan/
Danny Choo wrote:There has been much talk over the past few days about a recent announcement that Japanese ISPs are going to forcibly cut off users who share files over the internet. But the English press have worded the news to sound different to what was reported in Japan.

Yomiuri English news talks about how P2P users of Winny etc will be cut off from their ISPs and that "The move aims to deal with the rise in illegal copying of music, gaming software and images."

However, the Japan Internet Providers Association released a press release which states that they are after heavy users of Winny and similar P2P software due to the load that those users are placing on the network and not because of any illegal copying. The extra load caused by heavy P2P users causes instability for other internet users.
Nikkei BP also report on the crack down of heavy Winny users but mention nothing about copyrighted material.

There was however some discussions about some sort of crackdown due to copyright material but that was a last September.
While heavy P2P customers may be bad for an ISPs network, cracking down on all forms of P2P including torrents would also be bad for the ISPs - they would loose customers would just cancel their subscription and go elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I believe that P2P will still live on for quite a while in Japan - just as long as one does not over do it by downloading a zillion GBs of dolphin care material via Winny.
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Post by Takekaze » Mar 18th, '08, 09:11

doink-chan wrote:
If there's anything that I've learned about file sharing, it's that people will always find a way around attempts to stop it. The software will probably be made even more anonymous and encrypted so that there is no way an ISP can catch a file sharer. The article from Yomiuri said it mainly targets Winny, which is pretty much dead and has already been unsafe for years. I don't know if it will effect Share or Perfect Dark, though I can see Share being targeted as well. Still, as I said before, people who are really dedicated to file sharing will always find a workaround.
My thoughts exactly. There will always be someone to find a way around. Remember the iPhone? Apple engineers worked ages on it, and it came with a fixed contract. Well, guess what, a few weeks after release a guy already managed to get past that contract and got it to work with another mobile provider. Take any virus that targets Windows systems. They adapt quickly. Same will happen here.


I was thinking about this and I wondered how would the ISPs do it.

Going after the bandwidth:
pro: sounds easy, just check how much traffic a user has and smack him
con: it just doesn't work. There are companies offering downloadable content, which ranges from movies to music and even to games (Steam, which started as a platform for Half Life 2, now offers games from major gaming companies, id software ist there, Atari joined them, now you can even get the Unreal series via Steam, those are HUGE downloads worth several GBs). With that concept no one in Japan would be able to use Steam anymore, or even iTunes. You won't be able to buy a MMORPG online and download it. And what's the point getting a contract with 12 mbit (or more) when you can't use it decently? Not to mention, what with people who pay for either flatrates or contracts with large traffic? It'd totally screw them over (with that the ISP loses paying customers, usually those who pay most). And there are people who need fast ISPs which allow a lot of traffic for work. Which brings up the next problem. What about ISPs and companies using their services? Back when I worked in the webdesign business (in 2001), we, the devs, let our machines online over night and had WinMX running (downloading a shitload of stuff). You can't simply ban a company (that would really hurt the ISP).

I think it'll be more likely to reverse-engineer Winny (which has been done already, as far as I remember), then search for who is seeding/downloading what and then smack him (Rumor has it that German police is working like that on edonkey). Anything else simply won't work. There are people who use "filesharing" legally. There are even companies that do it (ever downloaded WoW? Blizzard uses bit torrent; America's Army uses it as well, there are plenty of others that do).

Does anyone have either the original Japanese article or a good translation of it? Because this "Japan to ban filesharing" is... just blah, it means nothing. There is no use in banning "file sharing", because there are plenty of legal examples. You have to track down illegal file sharing. Stuff like: an ISO file of "Always", or a rip of Shibasaki Kou's latest CD, or those low quality avi files that lurk around on Share (those of movies filmed in the theater). And that only works by going on Share/Perfect Dark/Winny/Whatever and find out who transfers what.

Or, be smart and offer a good, cheaper than DVD, legal download service. How do they think iTunes appeared? Amazon is doing this now as well. And with the high speed internet services of these days, this shouldn't really be an issue. Just imagine... TBS download store...

Why does one use highspeed internet anyway? To be able to download large amounts of data with high speeds. That simple. For anything else I don't need highspeed, I can use a 56k for that.

Hey TBS, NHK, etc... Downloadable tv shows! You have the technology! Use it! This also goes for the agencies. You want to sell the products of your artists? There's technology available. Use it.

Speaking of Winny, the last time I used it was two years ago. I stopped. Nothing there for me. Well... if you want faked porn images of your favorite actress, then use Winny. Other than that, forget it.

ISPs not associated with this group, however, might profit from this. After all, it's the customers who decide. Gotta love the free market. If Japan was North Korea, we'd be screwed though :P

Oh, by the way... who else finds it funny that the record industry is whining, yet they manage to pay a western band 1.2 million Euro for a gig in Japan? Hmmm... Record industry's been whining for ages, yet they're still around, still make a nice profit.

Personally, I prefer Share over Perfect Dark. Share has the better search options. I just love cluster and trigger function.

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Post by elly_ketz » Mar 18th, '08, 11:47

Takekaze wrote: Oh, by the way... who else finds it funny that the record industry is whining, yet they manage to pay a western band 1.2 million Euro for a gig in Japan? Hmmm... Record industry's been whining for ages, yet they're still around, still make a nice profit.
yeah it's funny..They already have lots of money even though their copyrighted material are widely illegally spread...well,looking at what happened,it seems that they're not satisfied and want more..
ads are cut off from drama but their products are still sold..
well I don't care if we've to watch with ads (though it'll increase the file size) if that could satisfy them
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Post by hikkichan » Mar 20th, '08, 02:20

Downloadable TV shows will do nothing for TV companies; ratings earn them sponsors, which in turn earns them money.

Why would they divert people to the internet and lose lots of money? Doesn't work at all. It may have worked for music, but it won't work for TV... especially since the quality of LEGAL downloadble programs/movies... even programs claiming to be "HD" are much worse than you get on your TV. That, and a large population of computer users aren't saavy enough to rig their machines to work on their TVs.

As for paying western bands 2 million dollars to perform in Japan... they make more money off of them through ticket sales, and merchandise. One Tokyo Dome show snatches around 7.5million dollars in ticket sales alone... and then they usually do two or 3 shows... paying 2mil to get 22mil isn't a bad investment.

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Post by WWKD » Mar 20th, '08, 09:15

hikkichan wrote:Downloadable TV shows will do nothing for TV companies; ratings earn them sponsors, which in turn earns them money.

Why would they divert people to the internet and lose lots of money? Doesn't work at all. It may have worked for music, but it won't work for TV... especially since the quality of LEGAL downloadble programs/movies... even programs claiming to be "HD" are much worse than you get on your TV. That, and a large population of computer users aren't saavy enough to rig their machines to work on their TVs.

As for paying western bands 2 million dollars to perform in Japan... they make more money off of them through ticket sales, and merchandise. One Tokyo Dome show snatches around 7.5million dollars in ticket sales alone... and then they usually do two or 3 shows... paying 2mil to get 22mil isn't a bad investment.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we (USA) just have a big write strike because, amongst other things, the writers weren't being paid for the content that was being aired on the internet? The channels were making money, the sponsors were making money, just not the writers. There is signifigant money to be made by putting shows on the web. The sites can track how many people view them, plus, ads can be put on the site, and in the show itself. There are benefits to making shows available on the web.

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Post by hikkichan » Mar 20th, '08, 12:01

Business is different out here. Using America as an example is pretty much irrelevant.

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Post by ajb_advance » Mar 20th, '08, 13:02

Heavy users are the target of these measures, and if you're wondering what a 'heavy user' is in Japanese ISP terms take a look at this document : http://www.jaipa.or.jp/other/bandwidth/guidelines.pdf. Check out 資料7 near the end which gives an example of showing users the amount of bandwidth they are using, in this case 166Gb in a day, and 1.3T and 2.1T for recent months - and I thought I was a heavy user! Other graphs show the (not unexpected) differences between 'normal' users (~500Mb a day), 'p2p' users (~17Gb a day) and 'heavy p2p' users (>100Gb a day) . . .

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Post by christaluvsdrama » Mar 20th, '08, 13:05

This means I will be watching and waiting for shows on TV more hehe. Though, does this effect those who watch Japan TV shows and movies online not so legally(key hole tv, beeline, yourglobaltv ect..)? Also, this will have a big effect on the Anime watching online community which is quite big compared to doramas.
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Post by groink » Mar 20th, '08, 17:54

As I've indicated before, I think it is a bandwidth saturation issue and not just file sharing. There's no way in fricking hell that 166GB a day consists of legal downloading. Even in the worst scenario, if they were downloading RAW Blu-ray discs (26 to 52GB per disc), they would have to stay up 20 hours a day just to watch what they download. They're treating their bandwidth like how they fish for blue fin tuna - they're grabbing a LOT more than they can eat. I mean, why buy videos or download free videos that you'll never watch? In a vacuum environment with no gravity, things can happen. But c'mon! The quantity of bandwidth being burned here just does not add up.

I don't think the ISPs will lock down certain protocols or ports. Like Comcast in America, I believe they're going to start throttling to piss off the abusers or sending people notices on overuse. The KEY point to make here is that ALL the ISPs in Japan are in on this plan. In America, ISPs are as common as McDonalds restaurants. The Japanese don't have that many ISPs to choose from.

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Post by Illanair » Mar 23rd, '08, 18:33

ajb_advance wrote:Heavy users are the target of these measures, and if you're wondering what a 'heavy user' is in Japanese ISP terms take a look at this document : http://www.jaipa.or.jp/other/bandwidth/guidelines.pdf. Check out 資料7 near the end which gives an example of showing users the amount of bandwidth they are using, in this case 166Gb in a day, and 1.3T and 2.1T for recent months - and I thought I was a heavy user! Other graphs show the (not unexpected) differences between 'normal' users (~500Mb a day), 'p2p' users (~17Gb a day) and 'heavy p2p' users (>100Gb a day) . . .
Oh my god :w00t:

It is completely beyond me how anyone can manage to transfer THAT much in a single day. I mean on my productive days I can barely squeeze in a couple of gigs if I'm spending a whole day in front of my monitor streaming music, video and the like - Can't even get close if I'm downloading something fansubish like I did the other day with 放羊的星 - Which is only about 7gigs.

Anyways - as far as the 'what will this mean for us' issue, I honestly don't think anything much will change. If the ISPs throttle peoples bandwidth the providers will simply split uploads into parts using multiple connections. If they block port access and protocols like Torrents etc.. people will simply move over to services like Rapidshare or MU (Which seems to be the trend already due to the ever so annoying leecher issue that hits Torrents after the release hype cools down)

Or even the good 'meatworld' mail service if everything else fails.

Bah...look at me yapping on like a madman :whistling:.

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Post by pacman99 » Mar 28th, '08, 23:49

not sure if this has been mentioned before but even though japanese ISPs will be attempting to track down users sharing dramas, one should realize that this won't really stop the spread of japanese tv online. For one, like american tv, japanese and korean shows/dramas are part of the same underground network that brings us all pirated games, apps etc online. They all use SSL (ftp & irc) on weird ports, changing servers if one becomes a threat. From there stuff is leaked to newsgroups and then eventually p2p.
While users of popular p2p programs might not be able to find them as readily, there will still be a way to download them if you look hard enough.

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Post by LoveWillB4U » Mar 29th, '08, 13:07

Just out of curiousity... they are only banning p2p in Japan right? So why don't you contact someone you trust outside of Japan or make a friend outside of Japan and send whatever you need to that person directly. That person can then use p2p since he is outside of Japan. What he wants to host and use p2p for is his own thing since he is outside of Japan.

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Post by siantut » Mar 30th, '08, 18:44

I also read the news. They said in Japanese "p2p file sharing software such as Winny", so it does not mean only Winny is being targeted. A lot of Japanese are using clients like bitTorrent and FlashGet. There is even a book (in japanese) sold about it, I mean about what client to use and which sites to download from.

About cutting off and throttling, I have experienced it. Each time I download something, then after a while, my internet connection would be cut off. I mentioned about it in a chat with Hadmish in my old HP. It happened again and again. However, since about more or less a month ago, I noticed that it never happened anymore, which made me wonder and worry at the same time, I felt as if maybe they were up to something and perhaps would jump on me some day. With the news of banning, now the puzzle came to light. They are indeed up to something! And I don't even download japanese stuff except the video of the dorama I was subbing because I would need it to sub. Actually I would prefer to avoid downloading anything Japanese. Infringing on copyright is regarded as criminal in Japan, we face 5 years in jail, and/or 5.000.000 yen, or both.

As to subtitling, it doesn't look good either, after the round-up of some pirates who sold pirate DVDs in Osaka last year, the police is looking for the subtitler who subbed from English into Japanese, with the charge of being an accomplice to pirates (reported by Yomiuri). Speculations said that he is a man called Anal Danshaku (Baron Anal), a Japanese man who is said to be a medical student or trainee physician. Before subbing by himself, he used to collaborate with an American who called himself "Bob" to sub western movies including Spiderman, Matrix, etc. People say that his arrest might be imminent if police can find a proof that it was him and if they can find who he really is. According to police, the subtitler/s used different names in the pirated DVDs, but employing linguists to analyze the use of language, police in Osaka concluded that the subtitles were the work of the same man. For Winny and other 2p2 users, Anal Danshaku seem to be a hero, because he released the Japanese subtitles of American movies even before the movie is shown in Japan, so they said the police are crazy and stupid to do this. Nothing is heard anymore of Anal Danshaku, he might have stopped subbing, or have gone underground.
Some report about him by Zakzak:
http://www.zakzak.co.jp/tsui-sat/tsuise ... 09_02.html
and wikipedia:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2% ... 7%E7%88%B5

Anyway, it is just some info on the situation in Japan. April 1st will start in less than 24 hours from now :(
Bye bye and thanks for everything.

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Post by waniey_vic » Apr 1st, '08, 10:38

all we can do is wait and see.. i think... but i do not want to miss Gokusen 3 at all.. if there's no more room for torrents from japan here in d-addicts as they banned files sharers, it will really affect me.. in my country, it takes really long time to watch latest jdrama. e.g nodame cantabile.. aired in my country only at the end of last year.. so slow.. this situation also same with buying jdrama DVD. if you want DVD for korean drama, you can get it anyway - even the latest one here in my hometown (maybe 2,3 month after the final episode). but for jdrama, there's no way you can get the latest one. you have to wait 1 year for that.

i wish this will not affect d-addicts.. because jdrama is part of my life...

i dont want part of me taken away... owh... i'm so sad.. i hope this is only April Fool's joke.. huhuhu...
THX all Fansubbers.. :wub:
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Post by Leyy » Apr 1st, '08, 14:12

i really hope there is a way to share torrent legally.... :( which i think is impossible for japan..unlike other countries wherein they don't sell dramas in dvds..but japan has been doing that for the longest time..and a few has followed suit. i understand that doing this would mean lesser sales for them, but non-japanese fans, like us who love their dramas are so helpless and useless without them. :-(

like you, waniey_vic, j-drama is a part of my daily life..and if this happens i'm gonna lose a part of me as well ::(

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Post by Illanair » Apr 1st, '08, 16:59

Leyy wrote:i really hope there is a way to share torrent legally....
Yeah...erm.... how to put this :scratch:

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Post by wlben » Apr 5th, '08, 07:01

sad day for file sharers :(

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Post by doink-chan » Apr 8th, '08, 03:52

It's a week into April and things seem to be pretty much the same as far as obtaining new raws of anime/J-dramas/variety shows/etc. goes. I guess it goes to show what I said before, hardcore file sharers will always find a way around things. I guess it's true that it's only really heavy users getting cut off.
Last edited by doink-chan on Apr 8th, '08, 05:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by waniey_vic » Apr 8th, '08, 04:57

YEAH... hmm, should we be happy or what? teeeheee...
THX all Fansubbers.. :wub:
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Post by Sapporo Girl » Apr 10th, '08, 05:23

siantut wrote:I And I don't even download japanese stuff except the video of the dorama I was subbing because I would need it to sub. Actually I would prefer to avoid downloading anything Japanese. Infringing on copyright is regarded as criminal in Japan, we face 5 years in jail, and/or 5.000.000 yen, or both.
The same here. It's quite troublesome because of my connection to a university. We've just been through the throes of a huge copyright mess and they wouldn't take too kindly to my "hobby" bringing forth more trouble. I'm not particularly interested in going to jail or paying that massive fine over a drama I can watch on my television.
As to subtitling, it doesn't look good either, <>
Anyway, it is just some info on the situation in Japan. April 1st will start in less than 24 hours from now :(
I think I'll go into hiding and only appear to download the raw and upload the translation.

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