More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive) -__-

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More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive) -__-

Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 1st, '06, 09:59

One of my friends is in to horror movies. She loved the American version of "Ring" and she was totally floored when I told her it was originally a Japanese movie and that there were more of them. She thought I was full of crap until Ring 2 came out and I showed her the original Japanese ones in Best Buy. Of course she refused to watch them b/c she didn't feel like reading subtitles. -__- Then, Grudge came out and I told her the same thing, and that I heard Dark Water was coming out and that was another one. She said "WTF? Did we run out of ideas??". I joked with her and said "I bet the Korean ones are next......Korea has some great movies". She just went "Oh ok, whatever". Not too long ago she raved about a horror movie called "The Eye" that came on cable and was subtitled....and she actually watched it and loved it. I think it was Thai? (Edit: It was an HK release. ^^; ) She said "Now I know why you probably watch this Asian $h!t, it seems better than what we have going on lately....". :rofl:

I honestly didn't like the remakes of Grudge and Ring at all. I didn't see Dark Water, but I don't really expect much out of that either. I joked w/ my friend and said "If something comes out called 'A Tale of 2 Sisters' or 'Wishing Stairs', lemme know!" :lol

Anyway, after talking to her I checked online to see who produced these movies, b/c I was curious. I was absolutely shocked to see this:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0498175/

If you'll take notice, the same guy did all of the ones I looked up. This producer (Roy Lee) has some familiar titles under his belt. If you click on some others and read the descriptions, you'll find even MORE upcoming remakes w/ different titles. He did just about every recent remake of Asian movies and with more to come!!! :crazy: He didn't do "Shall We Dance?" though. Might as well have :lol


I can't really rant too much now because that would involve a lot of detail and I'm already frustrated. It might come easier when I see people's comments so I can respond to that. But.....check out the titles and the casts. Oh holy crap of Christ. I'm appalled and afraid. Some stuff is better off untouched. Some stuff is deserving of AT LEAST a better cast, if they really HAVE to remake it. I think all of it will be butchered. Some remakes will at least be laughable and we can joke about it. But this is getting a bit ridiculous. I know many movies from abroad are good, but do so many have to be remade???? ;__; Some of the titles on there just shocked me, then I was disgusted, b/c I liked them so in their original form and can't imagine justice being done in a remake. Some (well, most, if not all) of the casts had the same effect on me. I didn't even see all of them that are being remade, but I seriously doubt I would watch the remake first, if at all.

In case you couldn't tell, I generally don't like many remakes anyway no matter what they are of, so I'm probably really biased. I also can't call myself a fan of most recent American movies. But, I'm not pleased at all for a number of reasons. Some may like this, but I don't. Sorry. I say just promote and watch more of the originals first rather than just remake it right away, change it around, put in some familiar Hollywood faces, and make it in English for people who don't feel like reading subtitles. :X The first thing I thought was "Someone make this guy stop!", but I guess he found the way to live and retire comfortably b/c some people not having seen the originals probably like this stuff and think it's new and unique. I think that's a big part that bothered me.

Rant over, for the time being, but I'm sure I'll be back in this thread. :mrgreen:
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Post by aisu_kurimu » Jan 1st, '06, 10:18

... He's also going to be remaking Sassy Girl. I'm a little afraid.

Although I understand why they bother with remakes at all...

1) most people are like your friend, who are too lazy to read subtitles
2) big asian stars are nobody in america
3) it's an opportunity to profit.

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 1st, '06, 10:38

LOL, yeah, of course it's an opportunity to cash in. I'm just bitching because *I* don't like them and still think he's overdoing it. :rofl: I realize some people might like these remakes and won't like my comments, so that's why I said it's not for sensitive people.

I think I'm mostly afraid of My Sassy Girl, Oldboy, Internal Affairs, and Ikiru. O____O I just......can't picture them being anywhere near the originals :X
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Post by bugsie » Jan 1st, '06, 10:57

i think our great hollywood is running out of ideas in making new storylines, a lot of their movies this past years has been remakes of old hollywood movies, asian movies, and from novels from famous writers.

i think remaking "My Sassy Girl" will suck as hell, and it won't fit them, how many romantic comedies out there in hollywood that doesn't have kissing scenes? or the idea of the couple sleeping together? there are so few that i can't even mention one. :-(
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Post by tnom » Jan 1st, '06, 11:08

I'm not sure I follow: how does a bad copy affect appreciation of the original? 99% of my students think "How Deep is your Love?" is a great Westlife song. All of them are wrong. That doesn't make the Bee Gees hit less great, does it?

Hollywood has a long history of making mediocre, white-bread pap out of great imports. None even the worst of those (hello Point of No Return?) lessened the beauty and impact of the originals. Let the ignorant masses have their bland, formulaic, audience-response-tested remakes. I'll join my friends in seeing the originals at my local art cinema long before the remake's released.

Hollywood also makes lots of crappy originals every year, and I do the same with those that I do with bad remakes: I don't go.

My fave asian film of all time is
(<--duh) OldBoy. Nic Cage? Not a skilled actor, but he has created a memorable character or two (Caspar Troy). The weekend it's released you'll find me at the art house.

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Re: More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive)

Post by Seghal » Jan 1st, '06, 11:13

neonkinpatsu wrote:I joked w/ my friend and said "If something comes out called 'A Tale of 2 Sisters' or 'Wishing Stairs', lemme know!" :lol
The remake rights for A Tale of Two Sisters have been sold some time ago. :(

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Re: More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive)

Post by canon05 » Jan 1st, '06, 11:18

neonkinpatsu wrote:Not too long ago she raved about a horror movie called "The Eye" that came on cable and was subtitled....and she actually watched it and loved it. I think it was Thai?
The Eye is a HK production.

They make remakes b/c they think they're better than others, maybe?

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Re: More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive)

Post by yt_toshi » Jan 1st, '06, 11:22

canon05 wrote:The Eye is a HK production.

They make remakes b/c they think they're better than others, maybe?
It's more like the $$$$$
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Re: More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive)

Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 1st, '06, 11:23

canon05 wrote:
neonkinpatsu wrote:Not too long ago she raved about a horror movie called "The Eye" that came on cable and was subtitled....and she actually watched it and loved it. I think it was Thai?
The Eye is a HK production.
Ohhh, it was HK? Okie, I never saw it. :sweat:
Seghal wrote: The remake rights for A Tale of Two Sisters have been sold some time ago. :(
Ugh -__- This list is getting scarier for me ;__;
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Re: More Asian movie remakes (ranty, not for the sensitive)

Post by bugsie » Jan 1st, '06, 11:24

yt_toshi wrote:
canon05 wrote:The Eye is a HK production.

They make remakes b/c they think they're better than others, maybe?
It's more like the $$$$$
yeah, they are such suckers when it comes to that.
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Post by groink » Jan 1st, '06, 12:03

If you do more research on this Roy Lee fellow, you'll find that he actually owns Vertigo Entertainment, which is a broker that handles the sales Asian movie rights to the American movie studios. So basically he found a lucerative nitch.

I really don't like watching movies anymore - especially American ones. It seems that these past few years, the popular movies are basically either comic book characters, video game themes or computerized animation. Well, I do own stock in PIxar, so maybe I should be watching their stuff.

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Post by techie » Jan 1st, '06, 12:12

I was a bit flustered when I saw friends of mine watch The Ring.
I stood up as soon it came on and said "I refuse to watch some remake of an already excellent original, just because some are to illiterate to read subtitles." and subsequently walked out.

They took it as some sort of ego trip on my side until one guy from Australia said, he agreed cause he had seen the original as well. Then they reacted and said... what .. its Japanese??? :blink

For the year 2006 I have decided to take this whole thing one step further.

I wont even watch Memoirs of a Geisha even if I can get a DVD of it two weeks before the premier here. And why? Simple... a hollywood rip off with a missplaced cast.

Besides, I find it UTTERLY pathetic that hollywood (intentionally not capping the h) are trying to capitalize on others projects, lifes and what not without adding much more than a fictiotious "Guest Director" name to the list.

Like, what the *&% did Quentin Tarantino have to do with the making of Hero???
If he was sitting freezing his butt of at minus degrees by that beautiful lake for 12 days straight, I'd understand it, but he's sitting in the heated place he calls home and watches a movie he might not even be halfway interested in, just to put his name on a sales plack?! Bbbbbbaaaaaaah.... Humbug.

I could go on for hours about this topic, and regarding the sub titles, well yes I'm perhaps better trained than most since I'm from a country where we grew up with them on the screen daily (perhaps in 80% or more of what we got fed on the screen).
I still find it silly that native English speakers are to spoiled to pick up a subbed show.
No... I take that back, it's not being spoilt... it's being utterly McDonalized and lazy.

Nuff said on my part for now... until I like Neonkinpatsu get more fuel on my ranting fire... :)


TNOM... btw I love your ava.... Old Boy was a wonderfully hillarious and quite twisted nice K movie.


Oh and Groink... you could watch Pixars stuff I guess :D... if they had made Finding Nemo in Japan it would have been called "The Sushi That Got Away!" :P
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Post by Seghal » Jan 1st, '06, 12:55

Old Boy remake from Bollywood: http://www.zindathefilm.com/

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Post by techie » Jan 1st, '06, 13:35

Seghal wrote:Old Boy remake from Bollywood: http://www.zindathefilm.com/
Wow... cool. them too

I read you backwards first... thought you ment Old Boy was a remake of Zinda and not the other way around... pfiuuuuh. :whistling:
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Post by laure_choc » Jan 1st, '06, 13:54

those remakes are not new, and remakes were done for movies other than Asian. Not so long ago we had "Vanilla sky", redo of "Abre los ojos", and i know some few french movies were americanized too.
I don't really see the problem with it as long as i still have the possibility to watch the original instead. Most of the time those remakes make advertisement for the originals which are then easier to find on DVD to then watch them.

I stopped trying to convince everyone around me it's not that hard to read subs, instead, i buy DVDs which allows me to watch it in the original language with subs if i don't understand it, and if some of my friends are too lazy when we're watching it together i put the language to french.

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Post by harliey_nick » Jan 1st, '06, 14:34

i come from a country where subtitles are okay n we practically grow up watching subtitled dramas n movies...i'm an asian so i think subtitles n asian movies n dramas are really great :wub: i appriciate asian stuff like dramas,movies,animes n mangas...i don't know why some ppl don't like subtitles (i mean sub help a lot,rather than watcing dubbed,heck the voice over sounds creepy,like naruto in cartoon network....the original japanese is waaaay better),or maybe i'm biased coz i'm used to it...


n somehow (don't be mad) i think asian movies n dramas are much more fun than west stuff since they have the element of culture (which i totally dig)...i love to learn about other cultures n asian dramas n movies give a glimpse of them...try reading manga n manhwa n watch anime,i tell u u'll love them as they are....in fact u'll be totally addicted :D ah n btw 'the eye' is a hong kong movie,the main actress is a malaysian :-)





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Post by theenigma411 » Jan 1st, '06, 19:00

An article about Asian remakes: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=8079
Not for the sensitive...

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Post by Schala » Jan 1st, '06, 19:58

theenigma411 wrote:An article about Asian remakes: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=8079
Not for the sensitive...
That article claims "Shutter" is a Korean movie. It's not. It's from Thailand. o_O And omg, the Olsen twins in "A Tale of Two Sisters"??? ........I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.



I really hate remakes too. But I actually saw The Ring before I saw Ringu. I do like both versions though. But I do find Sadako to be a lot creepier than Samara. I didn't like either version of Ringu 2. I saw the Japanese verison first, and didn't like it. I saw the American version, even though I expected it to be terrible, and it really was. I'd watch the Japanese version again before the American version. Awful awful.

Didn't like the remake of The Grudge. I HATE Sarah Michelle Gellar. She can't act in horror movies. x_X Plus, I did not like how they crammed all 4 movies into one. And they changed what happened to the teacher. I thought that was lame. I know they're already making a sequel though...I bet it will be just as bad, if not worse. But I also saw on imdb, they're making a 3rd Grudge movie in Japan! I can't wait for that! ^o^

As for the American verison of Dark Water, AWFUL. I almost fell asleep in the theater! It was so incredibly boring! It was more of a drama/mystery than a horror movie. It didn't have the same atmosphere the Japanese version did.


I heard somewhere they're going to remake One Missed Call too? If that's true, I wonder how bad that will be....x_x
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Post by azndgn26 » Jan 1st, '06, 20:06

Most remakes aren't as good as the originals... :glare:

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Post by hibiscus » Jan 1st, '06, 20:19

Schala wrote:And omg, the Olsen twins in "A Tale of Two Sisters"??? ........I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
OMG...hahahaha. that's kind of funny. ew, i wonder how that will be x_x

I'm not a fan of remakes. I prefer the original with subtitles.

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Post by wingsky » Jan 1st, '06, 21:13

I think remakes are not too good...

Sometime they are.. like that Charlie & Chocolate factory... that remake was real good yeah?

Although, doin remakes which cross cultures i dont think can work as some of the essence? of the film/show is "lost in translation" :lol :lol :lol

But seriously. I like subtitles better than dubs.. I remember watching some jet li flick on tv a month or two ago and it did the thing where the guy stops talking and his mouth moves for like another 5 seconds.. haha soo funny but stopped me enjoying the film :(

So in the end... subtites only please! keep it original! 8)
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Post by Sana » Jan 2nd, '06, 01:26

Asians never copy American movies. To Get Unstuck in Time series is nothing like the American movie Frequency. I mean, geez, it isn't hard to spot the differences:

Short-wave radio ≠ mobile phone
Fireman ≠ Policeman

Me thinks the copying goes both ways. However, for some reason, when American do it, more people seem offended.

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Post by aisu_kurimu » Jan 2nd, '06, 03:15

hibiscus wrote:
Schala wrote:And omg, the Olsen twins in "A Tale of Two Sisters"??? ........I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
OMG...hahahaha. that's kind of funny. ew, i wonder how that will be x_x

I'm not a fan of remakes. I prefer the original with subtitles.
Olsen twins in Tale of Two Sisters? I can just imagine this cigar-smoking film industry elite barely glancing at the title without reading the script and immediately cast the two sisters coming to mind. Twenty bucks says the American version is going to somehow throw in a love interest for the girls to fight over. :glare:

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Post by tnom » Jan 2nd, '06, 06:58

wingsky wrote:I think remakes are not too good...

Sometime they are.. like that Charlie & Chocolate factory... that remake was real good yeah?
No. You were right in your first comment: compared to the original, the remake of C&tCF blew large goats.

I'm old: I can remember when Tim Burton used to have vision.

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Post by Schala » Jan 2nd, '06, 08:35

I actually enjoyed the Charlie & the Chocolate Factory remake a lot. I thought Johnny Depp fit Willy Wonka's character quite well. The songs were also very enjoyable. But I still prefer the Oompa Loompas from the original.

Anyway....back to topic..


I have also wondered about something. Does anyone else notice that Chinese martial arts movies are okay to show originals in theaters? Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, House of Flying Daggers....

But when it comes to Japanese movies, Hollywood HAS to remake them? (Ringu, Ju-on, Dark Water, Shall We Dance?, etc.)

This always confused me. If the American audience was so against watched subtitled movies, then why would the Chinese martial art type films such as those listed above be such big hits?

I think they should just give a Japanese horror movie, or any other type of movie, a chance and just show the original in theaters, and see what happens. I mean The Grudge really was basically the same movie, except for some differences, that they really could have just brought over the original. I think the only problem with Japanese horror movies is that everything is not explained to you, and you have to think about how certain events connect and what happens. The American audience doesn't like that. They must have EVERYTHING explained to them. Look at how Naomi Watts comes right out and explains why she did not die, while Noah did, in The Ring. But in Ringu, Reiko (?) doesn't come right out and say it. They expect you to figure it out for yourself. I find this to be really funny that Americans need everything explained and for everything to make sense and be logical, especially in a GHOST HORROR movie, when it involves something that is NOT logical. :lol

I don't know. It still doesn't make sense to me why Americans can watch Chinese martial arts movies with subs, but Japanese movies must be remade. :scratch:
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Post by disko » Jan 2nd, '06, 09:08

Schala wrote:This always confused me. If the American audience was so against watched subtitled movies, then why would the Chinese martial art type films such as those listed above be such big hits?
I think it has to do with the nature of the films, epic martial art films are hard to remake, America probably just doesn't have the type of people involved in the industry to do it. Also I think people are more used to watching 'kung-fu' movies in say Chinese because it's more about the fight scences and what not. Horror on the other hand is easy as **** to remake and people are probably less forgiving towards a different language. Personally though I think nearly all remakes have been failures, not only have they lost what made the asian film good in the first place but failed to add anything original.

I nearly cried when I heard The Eye was being remade, I think the star is going to be Renée Zellweger and well...not only is this movie completely miscast for her, I can't stand her :x

What are they thinking with A Tale of Two Sisters? the film is a masterpiece, but this kind of film doesn't prove successful in the American market. The best it could hope for is cult-fame like say Donnie Marco, however this makes it rather pointless as such markets would accept it with subtitles. FFS hollywood keep some untouched!

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Post by iceberri » Jan 3rd, '06, 05:34

Looks like he's redoing Il Mare too -- with Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock! Oh my god.
And Infernal Affairs with Leonardo DiCaprio & Matt Damon.
I love how he changed the titles so they're not immediately recognizable to people who've seen the movie already. Maybe he wants also wants us to spend our $9 buying a movie ticket before realizing, "heeey, I've seen this movie before -- and it was 10x better!" I officially hate Roy Lee.
Goooons the lot of them!!!!

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Post by koolaid » Jan 3rd, '06, 05:49

I do not think that it is a problem that hollywood can not duplicate a martial art movie compared to others (dramas and horrors) There is a wider acceptance that asians can do martial arts. The majority of asians that make it to hollywood are martial artists. What bug me is that stars like Jet Li and Jackie Chan would have lead roles, but compared to an American counterpart there would be limited relationships involving these actors.

An asian horror movie would not appeal to the large majority of paying customers in the USA. Hollywood knows this, so they would have to americanize the story so it would be a better seller. Really there is a lots of money and talent that they could completely duplicate the story and improve on it, if it made sense (money wise)

I think that the majority of the people here watch asian dramas because we like the way it reflects the asian culture, but do not expect that the majority outside of this circle will.

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Post by impression151 » Jan 3rd, '06, 06:15

I don't really have a problem with remakes; it's all for a profit anyways and people will do anything for a profit. So like I said, I don't really have a problem with it.

The only thing I don't like though...is that when people do interviews with Asia Asian stars, they always list out all these favorite American movies and American music (European, too). But when it goes back to Americans and Europeans, they'll talk about how the oldies of their own country were good...and that's it, no references to anything else.

And I totally agree with the thing about martial arts movies, it's okay because that's the Asian thing. We only do martial arts. Horror, romance, mystery, personality? Asian? Nahhh.

Last but not least, just check out the movies out now. They are garbage (though I haven't seen Fun with Dick and Jane). I did see Munich couple hours before New Years. It was okay. I didn't leave the theater saying "oh ****, that was crazy." It was more like ehhh...it wasn't boring or bad but it wasn't great. And don't even get me started on the previews for some of the movies coming out this year. My god...they are GARBAGE. Especially this new one with Samuel L. Jackson. The trailer tried to make it all action packed...but after you watch it, you're like "wtf...ok...that was stupid".

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Post by debstuh » Jan 3rd, '06, 06:23

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Post by smxo3o2 » Jan 3rd, '06, 06:53

The least you can do is get those around you to be aware of the originals before it gets into threatres. Show em that the originals are best. That's what I did with my friends. Hahaha. They're hooked onto it ever since saying F*cK Hollywood and most of all, Support it!

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Post by Atomic » Jan 3rd, '06, 15:33

Memoirs of a Geisha is written by an American Author for an English reading audience.. so how can that be a hollywood rip off? As far as a misplaced cast, who in their right mind would cast a bunch of unknown Japanese actresses and spend over 100 million dollars that might or might not make any money. At least with Zhang Ziyi, Michele Yeoh, and Gong Li they're proven international stars that can get audiences not just in North America, but most of the world as well.. Plus they're just actresses playing part of a character..
I'd be like being pissed that they didn't cast a german for a german character in Shindler's List, or not casting a real Nazi because the actor wasn't authentic enough of his hate.
techie wrote:
For the year 2006 I have decided to take this whole thing one step further.

I wont even watch Memoirs of a Geisha even if I can get a DVD of it two weeks before the premier here. And why? Simple... a hollywood rip off with a missplaced cast.

:P
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Post by Lowest » Jan 3rd, '06, 20:25

Okay, like everyone else it seems, I don't like remakes of Asian films that are perfectly fine, but I did see The Ring, I wouldn't walk out of a room just because it's on and there is a perfectly great original I'd still watch it, for the main reason that the American remake isn't all the same so even if it's once it's worth watching it to see what the difference are rather than complaining without seeing it.

I don't get why people are so against Memoirs of a Geisha, yes it's about Japan and it's got Chinese actors in and there all speaking English :P but that doesn't make it a bad film, I prefer to think of it as a film by someone who is interested in asian culture rather than someone ripping off something to make money.

I loved Oldboy and so am annoyed by the fact that it's getting a remake more so because you know it'll be nothing like the original I don't think it's a movie that could be remade by hollywood without being so so different, I doubt they'd get the same story line or the crudeness of the scenes. I'm thinking it'll be more like hollywood style action scenes which are completely unbelieve able where he ends up with out a scratch where as in the original he ended up with things stuck in him. :P

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Post by bugsie » Jan 3rd, '06, 20:35

yeah, memoirs of a geisha isn't that bad. just imagine if the geisha was Cher. :pale: gives me the shivers.
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Post by techie » Jan 3rd, '06, 23:41

Atomic wrote:Memoirs of a Geisha is written by an American Author for an English reading audience.. so how can that be a hollywood rip off?
Maybe so, I still will not like it what others so may say :whistling:
Atomic wrote: ..., who in their right mind would cast a bunch of unknown Japanese actresses
Well how about casting some Known Japanese actress ??? Just a thought.
Atomic wrote: I'd be like being pissed that they didn't cast a german for a german character in Shindler's List, or not casting a real Nazi because the actor wasn't authentic enough of his hate.
Huh... now thats just a bit uncalled for.
But then again it's your point of view so I'll let that stand for you :D
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Post by canon05 » Jan 4th, '06, 00:11

Schala wrote: I have also wondered about something. Does anyone else notice that Chinese martial arts movies are okay to show originals in theaters? Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, House of Flying Daggers....

But when it comes to Japanese movies, Hollywood HAS to remake them? (Ringu, Ju-on, Dark Water, Shall We Dance?, etc.)

This always confused me. If the American audience was so against watched subtitled movies, then why would the Chinese martial art type films such as those listed above be such big hits?

I think they should just give a Japanese horror movie, or any other type of movie, a chance and just show the original in theaters, and see what happens. I mean The Grudge really was basically the same movie, except for some differences, that they really could have just brought over the original. I think the only problem with Japanese horror movies is that everything is not explained to you, and you have to think about how certain events connect and what happens. The American audience doesn't like that. They must have EVERYTHING explained to them. Look at how Naomi Watts comes right out and explains why she did not die, while Noah did, in The Ring. But in Ringu, Reiko (?) doesn't come right out and say it. They expect you to figure it out for yourself. I find this to be really funny that Americans need everything explained and for everything to make sense and be logical, especially in a GHOST HORROR movie, when it involves something that is NOT logical. :lol

I don't know. It still doesn't make sense to me why Americans can watch Chinese martial arts movies with subs, but Japanese movies must be remade. :scratch:
IMHO it's not true that Chinese movies are treated differently. Nonetheless, any foreign movies also have to go through the Hollywood studios-----licenses have to be bought first, etc. Note that Hollywood is remaking 2 Chinese movies-----as far I know----Infernal Affairs and The Eye.

While Hollywood movies themselves can be distributed easily as they wish by setting up their own studios or a partnership -- but it still bears its studios' name. One example see what they did to "Hero". Like someone above said earlier "What the heck Quentin T has to do with the movie?" I was pointing what they did to the license. Don't ever purchase any Hollywood license, the originals are the way better and a lot nicer. Support 'em!

A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The studio ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.

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Post by Sana » Jan 4th, '06, 02:53

canon05 wrote:
A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The studio ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
By using that same argument, why does it matter to you what US studios do to the original films? Afterall, they bought the rights so shouldn't they be able to do whatever they please -- including cutting scenes or making a remake?

Contrary to what many here think, I feel that remakes does have it's place in the world.

1. If you hate remakes, are you going to see King Kong or The Chronicles of Narnia? Or do you prefer clamation Kong or puppet Aslan? If you prefer, the latter, more power to you. I will be seeing the remakes. I will also be seeing my fourth remake of the Return of the Condor Heroes as well.

2. If you hate remakes of Asian movies by Hollywood, do you have the same feeling when the tables are reverse? Or is this hatred just one sided? Hey, at least Hollywood paid for the rights. Sometimes, I see a series or movie from Asia that looks suspiciously like it came from a Hollywood movie (my previous post). I wonder if they paid the rights for it? Hmmm...

3. If you hate Asian remakes from Hollywood because your friends didn't know where the originals came from, is that Hollywood's or your friends' fault?

In an ideal world, of course everybody wants the original movie to make it stateside (I do too), but sometimes the remakes does garner interest in the original.

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Post by Schala » Jan 4th, '06, 04:20

Sana wrote:

2. If you hate remakes of Asian movies by Hollywood, do you have the same feeling when the tables are reverse? Or is this hatred just one sided? Hey, at least Hollywood paid for the rights. Sometimes, I see a series or movie from Asia that looks suspiciously like it came from a Hollywood movie (my previous post). I wonder if they paid the rights for it? Hmmm...
Well, see the problem I have with this is, not as many American movies are remade in Asia. Mostly because they just bring over the American movie. They tend to just watch the American version. I'd be interested in knowing some movies that America originally made, and then that an Asian country remade instead of just bringing over the American movie, if you happen to know any?

I think a lot of us are just upset that America rarely just brings over the original. They remake so many Asian movies. If it were more equal; some remade, some brought over as the original, I think many of us would be less upset. But there really isn't that balance. And after the remake, they may release the original on dvd, but it's not promoted very much. I doubt many Americans even know that they can buy/rent the Japanese versions of The Ring, The Grudge, and Dark Water. Some may know they're remakes of Asian movies (many of them not even sure what Asian country), but won't know they can go to their local video store and see the original. Or most of them may not even WANT to, because well, it's in a different language and they'll have to read subtitles! OH NOES!

I feel more upset that the American audience is against subtitles. The people I've talked to about foreign movies always give that response. "Oh, it's subtitled? How can you like that? I hate having to read when watching tv/movie." If you ask me, that just makes them sound so....uncultured and unintelligent. I'd rather watch the original foreign movie to get the full intent behind the movie. Even in dubs, something is lost in the translated language. Well, there's always something lost in translation anyway, but you get closer to watch the original when watching with subtitles.

I also hate the fact that Hollywood feels they need to add so many special effects to remakes of Asian horror movies to make it scary. Let's face it, the Japanese don't use many special effects in their horror movies, but they still make it very scary without them! They don't need them! I think that makes a really scary movie! Ringu had a creepy/scary atmosphere alone, but the American remake added in all these special effects that weren't needed. And then The Grudge, where the ghost's eyes roll forward in the American version, that was really cheesey! The Japanese version didn't need that! It was scary enough as it was! So that stuff agitates me. Do Amercians really need those special effects to be scared? And half the time, they're not even scary, they're just cheesey and lame. :glare:

Well, that's my take on it anyway.
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Post by canon05 » Jan 4th, '06, 05:48

Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The studio ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
Sana wrote: By using that same argument, why does it matter to you what US studios do to the original films? Afterall, they bought the rights so shouldn't they be able to do whatever they please -- including cutting scenes or making a remake?
Uh oh seems my post has upset one of many Hollywood worshippers. I should've double checked this before or rather type a simple reply b/c I don't want to get flamed.

Here's my edit:
canon05 wrote: A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The Chinese station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The Chinese station ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
Sana wrote: Contrary to what many here think, I feel that remakes does have it's place in the world.

1. If you hate remakes, are you going to see King Kong or The Chronicles of Narnia? Or do you prefer clamation Kong or puppet Aslan? If you prefer, the latter, more power to you. I will be seeing the remakes. I will also be seeing my fourth remake of the Return of the Condor Heroes as well.
What do King kong and The Chronicles of Narnia have to do with Asian movies? Remakes? I had stated before that I was talking about Hollywood's behaviour towards outsiders. Foreign movies always have to go through the Hollywood studios while theirs always go seamlessly throughout the world. Also I was answering this for Schala, s/he said that most Japanese movies are remade in Hollywood and Chinese movies aren't. I replied any foreign movies are like that when they're going to the Hollywood market. Someone above has said earlier that Chinese movies are mostly action/martial arts and they (Chinese movies) have a distinctive action.
Sana wrote: 2. If you hate remakes of Asian movies by Hollywood, do you have the same feeling when the tables are reverse? Or is this hatred just one sided? Hey, at least Hollywood paid for the rights. Sometimes, I see a series or movie from Asia that looks suspiciously like it came from a Hollywood movie (my previous post). I wonder if they paid the rights for it? Hmmm...
Why, I didn't talk about remakes. If I were, I won't go watch them. If you read the post once again, you'll notice I was talking about the way Hollywood do distribution. Well, even if they (branches) feel they're lucky to be a partner b/c they got paid for that (distributing movies throughout the world), there is this feeling --- wouldn't it better if there's a way of achieving a more equitable distribution? Whether it's Asia's, Europe's, India's, Middle East's. You could just tell "Yes, might just as well go for the countless festivals"
Sana wrote: 3. If you hate Asian remakes from Hollywood because your friends didn't know where the originals came from, is that Hollywood's or your friends' fault?
This is a bit uncalled for. You ought point this to others' (above my post) not me b/c I was answering this for Schala that even if Chinese movies aren't remade, they also have to go through the Hollywood studios unlike the Hollywood movies---they can go seamlessly.

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Post by canon05 » Jan 4th, '06, 05:50

@Schala: I just read your post after mine. You've explained nicely. :thumright:

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Post by smxo3o2 » Jan 4th, '06, 05:55

Right on canon05. :clap:

I find their treatment/views towards foreign films disturbing.

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Post by Sana » Jan 4th, '06, 06:54

Schala wrote: Well, see the problem I have with this is, not as many American movies are remade in Asia. Mostly because they just bring over the American movie. They tend to just watch the American version. I'd be interested in knowing some movies that America originally made, and then that an Asian country remade instead of just bringing over the American movie, if you happen to know any?
Nope. My point wasn't about being able to see the original. My point was about originals vs. remakes and whether this is a Hollywood only phenomenon. Where's the hoopla over Bollywood's Oldboy. I, for one, can't wait to see the dancing.
I think a lot of us are just upset that America rarely just brings over the original. They remake so many Asian movies. If it were more equal; some remade, some brought over as the original, I think many of us would be less upset. But there really isn't that balance. And after the remake, they may release the original on dvd, but it's not promoted very much. I doubt many Americans even know that they can buy/rent the Japanese versions of The Ring, The Grudge, and Dark Water.
The Ringu & books
Ju-on
Dark Water

Would these official R1 dvds even be out if it weren't for the remakes?

If you're against the remakes, themselves, isn't it Roy Lee's (a Korean) fault? Afterall, his whole business model is based on buying the US rights to these movies and reselling them to Hollywood. If you just wanted to show the original, you have to go through him. More than anyone else, he's to blame for these crappy remakes.
Some may know they're remakes of Asian movies (many of them not even sure what Asian country), but won't know they can go to their local video store and see the original. Or most of them may not even WANT to, because well, it's in a different language and they'll have to read subtitles! OH NOES!
If they don't want to read, it is Hollywood's fault?
I feel more upset that the American audience is against subtitles. The people I've talked to about foreign movies always give that response. "Oh, it's subtitled? How can you like that? I hate having to read when watching tv/movie." If you ask me, that just makes them sound so....uncultured and unintelligent.
Lots of countries dub their movies into their own language. Some do it better than others and I am the first to admit that American dubbing sucks. While I prefer subtitles, I do watch American dubs for laughs. Whether a person watching the movie chooses dubs or subs is up to them.
I'd rather watch the original foreign movie to get the full intent behind the movie. Even in dubs, something is lost in the translated language. Well, there's always something lost in translation anyway, but you get closer to watch the original when watching with subtitles.
Your choice.
I also hate the fact that Hollywood feels they need to add so many special effects to remakes of Asian horror movies to make it scary. Let's face it, the Japanese don't use many special effects in their horror movies, but they still make it very scary without them! They don't need them! I think that makes a really scary movie! Ringu had a creepy/scary atmosphere alone, but the American remake added in all these special effects that weren't needed. And then The Grudge, where the ghost's eyes roll forward in the American version, that was really cheesey! The Japanese version didn't need that! It was scary enough as it was! So that stuff agitates me. Do Amercians really need those special effects to be scared? And half the time, they're not even scary, they're just cheesey and lame. :glare:

Well, that's my take on it anyway.
I wasn't scared of either Ring/Ringu versions. Nor am I a fan. Didn't anybody question who was videotaping those scenes? But then again, popping out of TV isn't exactly normal.

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Post by Schala » Jan 4th, '06, 07:18

Sana wrote:
The Ringu & books
Ju-on
Dark Water

Would these official R1 dvds even be out if it weren't for the remakes?
My point is, they should be availabile WITHOUT remakes. I know they're out. (In fact, I have all of them, including the books. I am continuously harassing Borders to see if they have a new date for Loop, the 3rd novel in the Ringu series.) Hence why I already referenced them in my post......
If they don't want to read, it is Hollywood's fault?
Mm...well, then I am more complaining about the American audience then. Hollywood caters to what the American audience wants, so it just angers me that Americans are so anti-subtitles.....

Lots of countries dub their movies into their own language. Some do it better than others and I am the first to admit that American dubbing sucks. While I prefer subtitles, I do watch American dubs for laughs. Whether a person watching the movie chooses dubs or subs is up to them.
Dubs/subs is still not remaking the movie though......


Your choice.
Exactly. My choice. And I also have the right to my own opinion too.

I wasn't scared of either Ring/Ringu versions. Nor am I a fan. Didn't anybody question who was videotaping those scenes? But then again, popping out of TV isn't exactly normal.

No one was videotaping those scenes. Sadako used her psychic powers to put the images (which came from her own mind/memory) onto the tape. I'd go into more details, but I don't want to post spoilers for those who haven't read the books.

And popping out of the TV isn't normal, but why would it be? It's a ghost story...since when are ghosts "normal"? Scary movies aren't supposed to be normal, that's why they're scary. In my opinion, seeking normalcy in a scary movie is just as silly as the American audience needing every single detail explained to them in scary movies, trying to make something rational that is not rational. Isn't it scary to not fully understand why something happens and for something to be senseless? They always say we have a fear of the unknown...and scary movies are supposed to cause fear!

I love the Ringu series because there's so much depth to it. It's not just your simple ghost story. I've read both novels that are available in the U.S., I've seen all the Japanese movies (including the unbelievably horrible Rasen, the original sequel), and I've read the manga that's available here. Obviously, just with any movie, if you read the book you understand the story a lot better. In Spiral, Suzuki Koji actually gives scientific explanations for some of the events, to almost make it seem plausible (which they're not, but yeah, he almost makes you believe it can happen!...). I just found the entire series to be really intriguing, because he went so indepth with it. There are not many scary movies/series that are like that.
Last edited by Schala on Jan 4th, '06, 07:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sana » Jan 4th, '06, 07:19

canon05 wrote:
Uh oh seems my post has upset one of many Hollywood worshippers. I should've double checked this before or rather type a simple reply b/c I don't want to get flamed.
Ouch. I got served. *snaps finger in a Z formation*

Here's my edit:
canon05 wrote: A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The Chinese station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The Chinese station ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
Yeah, you bolded Chinese station. They bought the rights and cuts some scenes. What's your point? Should people in America protest and demand the shows be uncut?
What do King kong and The Chronicles of Narnia have to do with Asian movies? Remakes? I had stated before that I was talking about Hollywood's behaviour towards outsiders. Foreign movies always have to go through the Hollywood studios while theirs always go seamlessly throughout the world. Also I was answering this for Schala, s/he said that most Japanese movies are remade in Hollywood and Chinese movies aren't. I replied any foreign movies are like that when they're going to the Hollywood market. Someone above has said earlier that Chinese movies are mostly action/martial arts and they (Chinese movies) have a distinctive action.
Read my above post on who owns the rights.
Why, I didn't talk about remakes. If I were, I won't go watch them. If you read the post once again, you'll notice I was talking about the way Hollywood do distribution.
This particular point wasn't necessarily aimed at you. It was my general question to everyone.
Well, even if they (branches) feel they're lucky to be a partner b/c they got paid for that (distributing movies throughout the world), there is this feeling --- wouldn't it better if there's a way of achieving a more equitable distribution? Whether it's Asia's, Europe's, India's, Middle East's. You could just tell "Yes, might just as well go for the countless festivals"
You lost me.
This is a bit uncalled for. You ought point this to others' (above my post) not me b/c I was answering this for Schala that even if Chinese movies aren't remade, they also have to go through the Hollywood studios unlike the Hollywood movies---they can go seamlessly.
I'm just gonna cut and paste. "This particular point wasn't necessarily aimed at you. It was my general question to everyone."

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that companies in foreign countries bid for the rights to show Hollywood movies in their own countries.

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Post by Sana » Jan 4th, '06, 07:55

Schala wrote:
My point is, they should be availabile WITHOUT remakes. I know they're out. (In fact, I have all of them, including the books. I am continuously harassing Borders to see if they have a new date for Loop, the 3rd novel in the Ringu series.) Hence why I already referenced them in my post......
Yes, I know you don't want the remakes but I'm just saying that the remakes does increase the odds of you getting the R1 dvds of the originals a bit. Not saying that's fair or anything. I just don't think the movie studios are going to spend millions to advertise a movie where the actor/actresses don't have name recognition here. A limited release of the movie might do well with people in the know, but a nation wide release doesn't seem plausible.
Exactly. My choice. And I also have the right to my own opinion too.
I didn't say otherwise.

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Post by groink » Jan 4th, '06, 08:10

Schala wrote:I think a lot of us are just upset that America rarely just brings over the original. They remake so many Asian movies.
I keep bringing the following up again and again and again on D-Addicts.... Americans have a problem watching entertainment that feature Asians - especially Eastern Asians. There's even a term for this: cultural identification.

Most of us here don't have a problem watching a TV show or movie featuring people outside of our home country because we're so used to it. We all watch Asian dramas, which is why we're all here at D-Addicts. But for all other Americans - as well as many other Westerners - they would rather watch entertainment featuring facial qualities that they're used to seeing in person everyday. We have this exact same issue with tokusatsu shows imported to the US from Japan. Look at Power Rangers... The ONLY original shots from the Japanese version are the fight scenes. Everything else - they're re-made with Americans playing the roles.

Again, just about all of you think cultural identification is full of crap and people who have a problem with it are prejudice. But it is a fact. This is why Hollywood finds it necessary to take an Asian movie and re-make it - with faces they're used to seeing.

Wait a few more decades... With inter-culturalization of Eastern Asians occuring in the US more than ever, Americans will start feeling more comfortable watching them. Cultural identification will eventually cease to exist. But for now, this is just something us Westerners have to live with.

--- groink
1. Always read FAQs for a given forum before posting.
2. Read the first few posts in a topic before posting.
3. Speak using complete English words.
4. The Internet is international. Respect regional and cultural values.

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Post by Atomic » Jan 4th, '06, 10:57

Um name me a famous Japanese actress famous internationally? I'm not talking about Jaddicts who know japanese actresses because they watch a lot of droma or Jmovies, but an average movie goer would actually know... Hence no selling power no matter how good an actress she might be. There are only the girls that come to mind and that's because of Last Samuri movie, and Kill Bill. Now if you were the producer investing over 100 million dollars, who would sell more tickets based on fame alone.. famous Japanese actresses, or famous Chinese actresses? Authentication might be one thing, but at the end of the day they're actresses playing a character based on a book written by an American..
techie wrote:
Atomic wrote:Memoirs of a Geisha is written by an American Author for an English reading audience.. so how can that be a hollywood rip off?
Maybe so, I still will not like it what others so may say :whistling:
Atomic wrote: ..., who in their right mind would cast a bunch of unknown Japanese actresses
Well how about casting some Known Japanese actress ??? Just a thought.
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Post by GhstDreamer » Jan 4th, '06, 17:33

groink wrote: I keep bringing the following up again and again and again on D-Addicts.... Americans have a problem watching entertainment that feature Asians - especially Eastern Asians. There's even a term for this: cultural identification.

Again, just about all of you think cultural identification is full of crap and people who have a problem with it are prejudice. But it is a fact. This is why Hollywood finds it necessary to take an Asian movie and re-make it - with faces they're used to seeing.

--- groink
*applaud groink*

I am in complete agreement that people rarely want to face the truth that most North Americans do not want to see an Asian face on television or in the movies - and when they do, the Asians are often viewed as the nerdy geek, the doctor, the exotic slut, or most often portrayed as the laughingstock in the group.

I loved the short lived series Firefly but how many Asians was in that show? None and the irony is that there is the presence of Chinese language and culture everywhere but not one Chinese main/secondary character.

Why would Hollywood who is just reflecting what the majority wants would want to bring over the Asian originals?

Why watch Tony Leung or Andy Lau in Infernal Affairs when they (the average North American) can watch Matt Damon in "The Departed"? Or why not Sarah Michelle Gellar in the Grudge? - Of course the irony with this movie is the film was shot in Japan. The majority wants to see white faces on screen - it has almost nothing to do with subtitles. The average person would rather see a foreign European film with subtitles than a Korean/Chinese/Japanese film.

I agree with Sana that it's not really Hollywood's fault for remaking the originals - it's the people's attitudes, beliefs and prejudices that are the reasons why Asian originals don't make it to the big screen. I know all my causcasian friends refuse to watch any Asian films but will watch a French or Italian film.

I believe one of the reasons why Chinese martial arts films like Hero and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not because Hollywood can't remake them - they can just set it in a different place and time with Caucasian actors (ex. 7 Samurai = The Magnificent Seven, Yojimbo = A Fistful of Dollars), it's because the average North American has already associated Asian people doing martial arts, so it's comfortable for them to watch Asian people in these kinds of roles. That's why even American made movies like Better Luck Tomorrow featuring all Asian main characters didn't fare all that well - taking Asians out of their stereotypical roles is pretty hard to swallow for the average person.

I don't why some people rant about how it's such a travesty to cast chinese actresses in japanese roles without realizing that they are the same race anyways. It doesn't matter that an American of English descent can play an Italian character, then why does it matter if a Chinese actor plays a Japanese role and vice versa? Imagine how limiting it would be if Japanese actors are only allowed to play Japanese roles and Korean actors can only play Korean roles (which would be a shame since Sandra Oh was wonderfully cast as a Chinese daughter in the movie Double Happiness). Or Takeshi Kaneshiro who is half Chinese/Japanese - should he only be casted for those roles? There certainly won't be enough roles for him to play!
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Post by zankusen » Jan 4th, '06, 18:08


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Post by Lowest » Jan 4th, '06, 18:37

If americans have a problem with watching movies with asians in why were crouching tiger and hero popular?
but to an extent I agree but the people that are like that are the people who only watch the popular hollywood movies anyway I don't think it is just that their asian because there are movies with asian that are popular (the ones where they speak english) I think it's more of a bunch of things rather than one thing.. unless I'm missing the point completely :P

I remember what I wanted to say in my other posts, the good thing about remakes is that the original movies get shown on tv and the dvds come out (in bigger stores) at cheaper prices :D

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Post by techie » Jan 4th, '06, 20:37

GhstDreamer wrote:I don't why some people rant about how it's such a travesty to cast chinese actresses in japanese roles without realizing that they are the same race anyways. It doesn't matter that an American of English descent can play an Italian character

I leave the quote at the top here and start in a somewhat different order.

1) I agree Groink, your take on the US and well North American audience, as well as the better part of the European as well, is very much correct.

2) At the same time I have to totally agree with Lowest comment about the fact that Crouching Tiger... Hero, Bulletproof Monk and many other movies, not to rant up every dog garn Bruce Lee flick ever made, or Jackie Chan and so on... has proven time and time again that the faces are not the popularity issue per say, but the capital spent on proper marketing, a few good scripts, and whatever not.

3) About the rant at the top, which I started out with...

I have NOTHING against set scenario, but IF and I repeat, IF hollywood considers itself to be the best and world unique market for movies, then why dont they dare to take things one step further and produce something truly unique.

I must add clarification to this too. I am not against the cast per say, but the fact that the casting causes grievances between China and Japan, for the monetary benefit of US parties. It is careless agressive market politics that set generational and long lasting emotions aside for the pure box office counts.

I would Love to go see a hollywood movie, with a script by some really good not always well known writer, a team of actors from all over the world, made in a forreign language. How about that for a challenge, but then again, that is something that will never happen, because in the end of the day, all that counts is the till in the box offices, in spite of the fact that w have seen these "preferred" ultra American movies over and over flop with the best of them.

Now ... hollywood, cant you take a hint, it's boring. Be radical, and I am sure that the audience will get the interest back even in our rows, but rip offs, cross casts, and other things we see, and are currently discussing here, will not have that super unique feeling to them as a true original will.

no matter which country it is originating in.

4) Someone said we wher not as upset of the remake of Old Boy, by the upcoming release of Zinda. Well I am. I think it sucks and is a discredit to the efforts of the whole team, cast and crew who made an excellant original.

5) About Japanese remakes of US originals... wel lthe only thing I could toss in off the top of my head would be the somwhat similar title and main lead in the Negotiator now coming out. Check YesAsia for a limited release copy. however that is only a copy by similarity in the tile. I dont really know any true remake in Japanese unless you should compare Akira Kurosawa's Ran to the arch-writer Hamlet's King Lear. But I think thats forgiven with the artistic community as being culturally acceptable in all nations to mimic great cultural heritage to change a growing industry to some extent.


6) And to round of this on my part as is said in the aforementioned article...
Although the point of remaking Asian films seems to be removing the unfamiliar from the American audience, there is often very little difference in cultural context between original and retelling. The concepts of *Ringu*(urban legends, video-technology) or *Dark Water* (painful divorce, maternal love, urban isolation) are not foreign ideas to American audiences, and therefore warrant no revision. Instead, it seems that race alone is the motivating factor.
This ending phrase in itself is an abomination to anything "humane" and "tolerant" whichh should be the first thing coming to mind in accepting, taking on the interest of and studying, languages, culture, foreign film and engaging in a generally international and friendly community!

Hmmpf. >> returns the soap box
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Post by Schala » Jan 4th, '06, 23:07

GhstDreamer wrote: I don't why some people rant about how it's such a travesty to cast chinese actresses in japanese roles without realizing that they are the same race anyways. It doesn't matter that an American of English descent can play an Italian character, then why does it matter if a Chinese actor plays a Japanese role and vice versa? Imagine how limiting it would be if Japanese actors are only allowed to play Japanese roles and Korean actors can only play Korean roles (which would be a shame since Sandra Oh was wonderfully cast as a Chinese daughter in the movie Double Happiness). Or Takeshi Kaneshiro who is half Chinese/Japanese - should he only be casted for those roles? There certainly won't be enough roles for him to play!
First off, very good post. :thumleft:

But to comment on this part...I think the main problem I have is that the general American population can not tell between Chinese, Japanese, and Korean people. They all look the same!! Right? :roll

I can't tell you how many people I've talked to that thought geisha were from China. Even in fashion magazines with dresses, they'll be called "Geisha dress!" with a picture of a traditional Chinese dress. :crazy:

So, in my opinion, when Hollywood casts Chinese actors for something that belongs to the Japanese culture, it just adds to this confusion and misconception.
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Post by canon05 » Jan 5th, '06, 00:21

Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: Here's my edit:

A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The Chinese station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The Chinese station ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
Yeah, you bolded Chinese station. They bought the rights and cuts some scenes. What's your point? Should people in America protest and demand the shows be uncut?
Aren't you talking about Hollywood has paid for the rights to do edits/remakes? I edited the quote which I thought might create a misleading meaning. With bold letters, anyone would know which is edited. They're Chinese station, not Hollywood. Never mind, that's a matter of opinion.
Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: What do King kong and The Chronicles of Narnia have to do with Asian movies? Remakes? I had stated before that I was talking about Hollywood's behaviour towards outsiders. Foreign movies always have to go through the Hollywood studios while theirs always go seamlessly throughout the world. Also I was answering this for Schala, s/he said that most Japanese movies are remade in Hollywood and Chinese movies aren't. I replied any foreign movies are like that when they're going to the Hollywood market. Someone above has said earlier that Chinese movies are mostly action/martial arts and they (Chinese movies) have a distinctive action.
Read my above post on who owns the rights.
Why should I? Don't expect I would read your posts 'cause I was NOT replying to you. I only replied that you picked my lines.
Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: Why, I didn't talk about remakes. If I were, I won't go watch them. If you read the post once again, you'll notice I was talking about the way Hollywood do distribution.
This particular point wasn't necessarily aimed at you. It was my general question to everyone.
Great then, that you aren't only pointing at me since you used "you" over and over with my quote and bolded one of my lines.
Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: A little off topic----recently I caught the news covering "Desperate Housewives" that's just aired in China. They ridiculed the way China translating it to "Crazy Housewives" and their way in cutting some hot scenes. The station has bought up the license to air the series and they have the right to cut there and there. Why is that? Hollywood think they are always right. They love being like a god. What a piece of crap. The studio ought not think the series is that great. It's the US who praises the series, not others'. What the hell this series has to do with this remakes topic? I was pointing the Hollywood behaviour towards outsiders' products.
You remind me of a mad driver that had gotten in a road rage incident. Have to repeat this------I was replying to Schala, NOT you. I was not replying to your post at the first place. You aren't picking a fight, are you? I don't want to.

People have their own opinions, right? That it's a matter of opinion.
Sana wrote:
canon05 wrote: Well, even if they (branches) feel they're lucky to be a partner b/c they got paid for that (distributing movies throughout the world), there is this feeling --- wouldn't it better if there's a way of achieving a more equitable distribution? Whether it's Asia's, Europe's, India's, Middle East's. You could just tell "Yes, might just as well go for the countless festivals"
You lost me.
sana wrote: I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that companies in foreign countries bid for the rights to show Hollywood movies in their own countries.
Ditto.
canon05 wrote: Well, even if they (branches) feel they're lucky to be a partner b/c they got paid for that (distributing movies throughout the world), there is this feeling --- wouldn't it better if there's a way of achieving a more equitable distribution? Whether it's Asia's, Europe's, India's, Middle East's. You could just tell "Yes, might just as well go for the countless festivals"
This is absolutely nothing but a complete time waster. I don't want to waste time for that. This will be the last post in this thread since I've replied before.

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Post by Sana » Jan 5th, '06, 01:55

canon05 wrote:
Great then, that you aren't only pointing at me since you used "you" over and over with my quote and bolded one of my lines.
What in god's name are you talking about? Yeah, I bolded one of your lines. Which is why my specific reply to you was in the first paragraph. I thought it was kind of obvious that the three scenarios at the bottom were aimed at everyone else. The point was if one country can alter the original and you're fine with that, why does it matter if another country does the same? Me thinks you are confused about my confusion.
canon05 wrote: You remind me of a mad driver that had gotten in a road rage incident. Have to repeat this------I was replying to Schala, NOT you. I was not replying to your post at the first place. You aren't picking a fight, are you? I don't want to.
Another cut and paste. "What in god's name are you talking about?...I thought it was kind of obvious that the three scenarios at the bottom were aimed at everyone else." You're the one who got hot and bothered not me. *snaps fingers in Z formation*

Maybe you don't have experience with forums. Anything that is posted can be quoted and debated upon even if it was a reply to someone else.

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Post by Schala » Jan 5th, '06, 02:18

I think you guys need to simmer down. >>

If we're going to debate or discuss different opinions, let's not resort to flaming while doing it, ok? ^^0 We can all debate/discuss our different views on this calmly, right? :sweat:
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Post by groink » Jan 5th, '06, 03:10

Lowest wrote:If americans have a problem with watching movies with asians in why were crouching tiger and hero popular?
It is because you're looking at the issue different from how I look at it. Let me explain...

The issue has NOTHING to do with race. It is 100-percent culturalization. Crouching Tiger shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument. Race and culture are two totally different things. You could, for example, be a Chinese man born and raised in Alabama. Is the Chinese guy Chinese by culture? No! He's more likely to be a redneck than Chinese. The guy probably can't even use chopsticks. Look at me... I'm filipino by race, but because I was brought up with Western values I'm not culturally filipino.

Storylines in movies represent culture. They do not represent race. The reason why Crouching Tiger was successful is because people are fastinated by the culture behind the movie, NOT THE RACE of the actors. It is a good thing for Westerners to watch an Asian culture film once in awhile. But just because Crouching Tiger was a success does NOT mean the Westerners has an appetite for Asian films and watch them every week or month. Same thing with TV dramas... Some people prefer to watch Korean dramas because they appreciate the Korean culture more than other Asian cultures.

Westerners watching Asian films is like Westerners eating Asian food. It's a once-in-awhile experience for a Western family to dine as an Asian restaurant. Just because he likes Thai food that doesn't mean he's going to eat Thai food every week. He's going to eat Thai food maybe once a year or even two years. Same thing with Crouching Tiger... Just because that movie was a box office smash that doesn't mean all other Asian films following it will be a hit. That's why Hollywood has to space these movies out a bit... Just look at the past history as an example... You have one Asian/Hollywood hit every two to three years (Joy Luck Club, Last Emperor, etc.) To be honest, with today's attitude among the Westerners, that's all the success Hollywood will have with Asian films.

I think the whole beef in this topic is that people like Roy Lee are taking an Asian movie that has NOTHING to do with the Asian culture, and then re-writing the script so that it fits the look of a Western society. If you think about it, Roy is not taking the "Asian" out of the Asian movies because quite frankly there was no Asian in most of these movies to begin with. For example, in a horror film, all blood and guts look the same whether you're in the northern or southern hemisphere. All ghosts also look the same everywhere. All Hollywood is doing is re-filming the movie with a Western look, and maybe tweaking the storyline to have an outcome that favors better to Westerners. (ex: changing from "the butler did it" to "the maid did it.") There have been quite a number of Asian movies I've seen where the ending - although just fine for the Asian taste - was quite weak from a Westerner's point of view, and at times incomplete (I think it is because the Asian film writers want the viewers to reflect on what they learned from the film) whereas Westerners want closure on ALL of their films, unless of course there will be a sequal.

Replacing kimchee with a piece of fried chicken in a movie is not enough to cry foul over.

--- groink

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Post by ~shinigami~ » Jan 5th, '06, 04:37

Well I haven't watched many Korean films but after hearing all the fuss over My Sassy Girl, A tale of two sisters etc. I'm going to try and check those movies out.

As for the remake of Infernal Affairs, I don't think they can mess up the great storyline. Although I can't help but feel uncomfortable if the American version of Infernal Affairs becomes popular because the director,actors etc of the remake will recieve the recognition from the average movie-goer (the majority of people). I feel that the original actors, directors etc deserve the recognition which they will surely not recieve.

Remakes are usually never as good as the originals to people who have seen the original e.g Pride and Prejudice.

To the person who mentioned The Chronicles of Narnia and King Kong. I have not seen the original of either movie but I will watch The Chronicles of Narnia and will probably enjoy it but I will not watch King Kong not because it is a remake but because the story does not interest me at all.

I guess I'm against remakes of asian film by Hollywood but I think I do hold some slight bias towards Hollywood but since I haven't seen any remakes of Hollywood films by Asia, I'm not sure if I'd feel the same so my bias is not yet confirmed. I do hold a ray of hope that the remakes will bring recognition to the originals and it becomes readily available to buy on DVD which is not currently attainable without ordering form the internet.

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Post by zankusen » Jan 8th, '06, 02:26

Hero and Crouching Tiger were ONLY popular and ONLY asian because you CANT have white actors for those roles

get a clue, any NON-Martial arts jakie chan crap isnt gonna fly in hollywood because of racism

look at the chinese in memoirs for example : they all look the same

wake up

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Post by groink » Jan 10th, '06, 00:56

Speaking of Ringu... You've got to check this out:


(I recommend putting the video in PAUSE at the beginning so that the entire movie downloads to your PC, and then play it.)

It's the Morning Musume girls watching Ringu (yes, yes, it's the Japanese version.)

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Post by Schala » Jan 10th, '06, 03:05

groink wrote:Speaking of Ringu... You've got to check this out:


(I recommend putting the video in PAUSE at the beginning so that the entire movie downloads to your PC, and then play it.)

It's the Morning Musume girls watching Ringu (yes, yes, it's the Japanese version.)

--- groink
LOL! That was great! XD
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Post by oasis » Mar 31st, '06, 14:48

First off, take a chill pill and relax.

There are 10 stories. Every other story is a variation on one of them. Asian stories are no exception.

We should be glad that asian films are getting some kind of attention, even if its not the full attention you think it should be getting.

Remakes are not always sucky. Sometimes they add new perspectives and dimensions. Maybe *shock horror* they might supercede the original. If they don't you can save your ticket money, so there's no downside.

The opportunity cost of making these remakes is not necessarily making equivalent value originals. It's probably something even more worthless like deuce bigalow 4 or something. I'll take a remade Infernal Affairs over that. Even if it had dicaprio.

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Post by Dodbos » Apr 4th, '06, 06:09

I am actually curious as to how Infernal Affairs will turn out, kinda looking forward to it. Regarding the topic, I just want to watch good films regardless if their asian, american, brazilian, and so on. I also think you should watch the remake before you can criticize it, not that I'm saying people are, but remakes have a possibility of being good as well.

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Post by Twilight Ronin » Apr 4th, '06, 09:19

I can't really think of ANY remake that was better than the original. Just take Flight of the Phoenix, the remake was horribly stupid. As for remakes of Asian movies, I don't watch them. Why watch the remake when I can watch the original? I'm not interested in an Americanized version of Sadako when I can have Nakama Yukie running around as her in Ring 0. And sometimes they're sold as remakes and aren't even ones (just take The Grudge 2, it's certainly NOT a remake of Ju-on 2, otherwise Gellar's character wouldn't appear in it, which would make the remake 100 times better).

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Post by jellybean » Apr 7th, '06, 12:54

completely agree with groink

A tale of two sisters, my sassy girl, etc are all films that are easy to remake because an aspect of that Asian culture is not a commodity - its simply everyday life (..hehe even in Ringu apart from the video thing)

Things like Crouching Tiger, Hero are full of novelty and it appeals to audiences who believe every East Asian race is about martial arts, swords and fists a-blazin :lol that's just a Western impression. When someone was to make fun toward a chinese person..what do you think they'd do? Frikkin imitate martial arts....its just American filtering what films they want to show to strengthen that ole damned wall called ignorance.

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English version of Il Mare

Post by rubi » May 10th, '06, 00:33

Hey, I'm not sure if this belongs here or if anyone's posted about this already. If so, then I'm sorry. :unsure:

Anyway, I was watching a preview of The Lake House, and it seems that's the english version of Il Mare. I loved that korean movie, it's one of my favorites, so I thought I'd share this information with you people here.

The movie stars Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves and will be out June 16th in the US.

Did anyone else know about this?

I'll be looking forward to see this movie... good actors. :-)

It better be as good as the Korean version. LoL

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Post by yt_toshi » May 10th, '06, 00:38

IIRC, Hollywood wanted to remake this Korean movie some time ago, along with some other Korean hit movies as well.
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Post by rubi » May 10th, '06, 01:44

Oh that's cool.

I'd really like to see more english remakes of korean movies. That'd be really great.. :-)

I just hope they're as good as the originals.

They have good actors for The Lake House.. but I think they should've gotten younger people. Well, I still have high hopes for the movie. :D

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Post by yt_toshi » May 10th, '06, 01:47

I think the other movies that Hollywood was considering remaking was My Sassy Girl and My Wife is a Gangster.
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Post by rubi » May 10th, '06, 02:01

I didn't like My Sassy Girl too much, but I'm sure a lot of people would like that a lot.

My Wife is a Gangster would be a good remake.. it was really funny.

Hollywood should consider She's on Duty... that one was good too. I think there's a similar movie out though.. not too sure. *Bad memory*

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Post by bugsie » May 10th, '06, 02:08

actually, i hate it when hollywood rips off asian movies, but that's a different topic. now going back, i'd make an exception on this one, i'm a sandra bullock fan so i'll definitely watch it.
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Post by rubi » May 10th, '06, 02:13

You know bugsie, that was my first reaction. Like.. "how could they?!" But, I'm a fan of Sandra Bullock too, and Keanu Reeves isn't too bad either. I just want to see how Hollywood will remake it.. what they'll change and keep. It'll be interesting to watch. The only thing that bothers me now is that people won't know it's a remake of a Korean movie. :-(

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Post by Childhoodless » May 10th, '06, 02:26

Wow, rubi is one of the few who doesn't explode into a fiery ball of rage when they hear about remakes of Asian films. One movie yt_toshi didn't mention is the remake of Oldboy. And I believe Jessica Alba is tied to the lead in a remake of Surprise.

Personally, I never liked either Bullock or Reeves' acting abilities. That said, I will be watching the movie with low expectations, and therefore there's a solid chance that I might be pleasantly surprised. But there's also a chance that it'll be a steaming pile.

What people forget (or never realize) is that there are a LOT of Hollywood films (not just the most recent ones) that are remakes or takes on other things. Few people have ever heard of Le Jettee(sp?) but most everyone's heard of 12 Monkeys. I can't remember the original movie, but even King Kong (the original) was a take on another giant ape movie.

People seem so judgemental of Hollywood's "lack of creativity" and yet, they can't come up with anything better. They criticize as if they how Hollywood and movies really work, when in reality, they rarely do.

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Post by Skykim » May 10th, '06, 02:29

Hollywood should consider "Please Teach Me English". Of course it should be called "Please Teach Me Korean" and in it Jun Ji-Hyun would teach Korean to Keira Knightley (made up to look nerdy with glasses) and Josh Hartnett. At least half of the movie should feature Knightley and Hartnett awkwardly speaking Korean while American audiences who were expecting the next watered down remake of an Asian movie would be forced to read subtitle upon subtitle.

Now that would be hilarious.

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Post by jholic » May 10th, '06, 02:47

this topic is a 'remake' discussion. as such, i'm merging with neon's topic....
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Post by Crazy Penguin » May 10th, '06, 04:43

I forgot if I said anything before... shame on me.

But hey... Sometimes they're selling things as "remakes" and they're clearly NOT remakes, since they just screw up the original story. Just take what has been spilled about The Grudge 2 already. IF it was a remake of Ju-on 2 and IF it would follow the "normal" Ju-on storyline... why is Gellar in the second part?

There's NO way she would be. EVERYONE who sets foot into that house... is fucked. Everyone. How come Gellar's character pops up in the sequel? She'd be dead by then.

The American The Ring? Oh please, don't make me laugh. That Sadako copy is absolutely not scary. I think the old Gakkou no Kaidan series (which was targeted at kids) was a lot more scary than those remakes.

Also. It's not just the remake of Asian movies. Just take a look at what has been remade. Just two examples: "Tora Tora Tora" was turned into a cheesy love story, with horrible SFX and zero research by the script writer and director (Japanese navy pilots never drank sake before flying, damn it, those guys were frigin' professionals; the script writer should be forced to read Sakai's "Samurai!") and was named "Pearl Harbor". Or... and that was really a horror trip for me "Flight of the Phoenix". Why, oh why did they have to butcher it with a completely idiotic remake. The original was great... after all, just look at the cast it had (and I LOVE Jimmy Steward) and the fact that the aircraft they built really flew and then this... Oh boy... Why... why!!!!!

I've once heard rumors of a Battle Royale remake. Boy, that movie would really suck monkey balls. It would never be like the original, instead we'd get Hollywood political correctness. Yuck. Just think, Hollywood remakes Battle Royale, we'd get tuned down violence (since, as Tarantino once said it "American movie goers are pussies") and the kids might even defeat the soldiers or find some other, completely stupid, way out of the program and there would be a big happy ending. Disgusting thought.

I shall refuse to comment on Memoirs of a Geisha, really, I shall. I only say this: if a director says "it's a movie about Asian culture" when it targets something that is specifically Japanese, then the director should be beaten to death with kanzashi. Apart from that, I found the book extremely annoying (I hate Sayuri, I absolutely hate her, she's so damn passive and whiney and I think she deserves every beating she gets, it shows that the story is not from a Japanese writer, where's the "ganbatte!" spirit in it?).

And people wonder why I barely watch American movies anymore.

Oh... btw... does anyone of you remember a movie from Hollywood, which was sold as "blockbbuster" where NOTHING blew up? Which had absolutely no explosion, not one single shot from a fire arm? Sad thing is, I don't remember any "blockbuster" like that from the more recent years. Small productions with average success? Yes. But a "typical" blockbuster? No. Says a lot, doesn't it?
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