Allow series with subtitles other than english on d-addict?

Discuss about anything here that doesn't fit in the other categories. Just don't spam.

Allow series other than Eng Sub and RAW to be upload to d-addicts?

Poll ended at Feb 4th, '05, 12:09

Yes
48
43%
No
63
57%
 
Total votes: 111

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Allow series with subtitles other than english on d-addict?

Post by Ruroshin » Jan 25th, '05, 12:09

Ok I guess there's been some discussion on this both open and behind doors. Right now, techinically there is no problem with having torrents that have subs other than English or being RAW. There are 125 torrent pages, english, raws, ost and theme songs take up 107 pages, so the "other" torrents take up 18 pages or about 14% of the resource. Of course if we allow it, it may grow in future.

So I'll leave it to the community to decide if the other torrents stay.
Last edited by Ruroshin on Feb 27th, '05, 23:08, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 12:14

I've been pretty vocal about my stance already. So I'll refrain from verbosely repeating myself here. I will simply say I think only e-subbed dramas should be uploaded/hosted here. RAWS and other language subbed Asian dramas should be hosted elsewhere.

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Post by lolipss » Jan 25th, '05, 12:17

BT-SLUT:

isnt it too tough to only allowed english sub torrent here??

this is drama community, it shouldnt matter if the video is RAW, chinese subtitle,etc...

sometimes with RAW video there are some people who make soft subs for it also
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Post by animetama » Jan 25th, '05, 12:32

I'd say a resounding NO.

If a title is available somewhere else, why does it need to be on D-A's tracker?

By all means, link or point people in the right direction if you want but I don't see why someone would want to download something if they don't understand it.
(And if they do understand it, they can go to wherever the link is and download it from there..)

Not that I can talk mind you, I've downloaded *certain* music files and a few series "raw" just to droolz but that’s another matter.. I digress..

Seeding and posting of torrents should _not_ be a race to see who can spam the most but more a "responsible sharing" kinda thingy...
To borrow jholic's words:
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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 12:38

lolipss wrote:BT-SLUT:
this is drama community, it shouldnt matter if the video is RAW, chinese subtitle,etc...

sometimes with RAW video there are some people who make soft subs for it also
I guess that's the real question that needs to be discussed and answered here: whether d-addicts is a carte blanche drama community serving the entire world population or whether d-addicts is a more specialized site focused on serving Asian dramas to the English speaking/reading population. It's not to restrict anyone in the world to download from here,but I don't beleive we should be hosting j-dramas dubbed in Finnish and hard-subbed in Congonese--as an example--here.

As for RAWS being subbed, that is often cited but in reality the number of RAW series that are actually subbed because they have been uploaded here is about 10:1. It's easy enough for anyone to directly download the RAWS elsewhere I believe. It need not be listed or hosted on this site's database.

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Post by Learner » Jan 25th, '05, 12:49

Personnally I think Raw is fine as Lolipss said, some1 might do soft subs later. Other language than English is different matter. We all come here because we love K, J or Ch dramas and also we have something in common and that is we all understand English and use that as a common ground to meet, discuss and share. To have another language is not serving the majority but only the minority. That may be fine but are you guys prepared to have a Viet subbed, French subbed or Dutch subbed etc...section if or whenever that happens?
Edit:
Hehehhh BT-Slut, a case of "great mind think alike" :roll We must be typing same thought at same time!

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Post by pockiiee » Jan 25th, '05, 13:09

Hmm, I use English subs myself,I really have no problem with other subtitles because of the new tab system (which I really like, good job ruro) However if you decide to ban them I think if the subs are soft rather than hard subs it should be Ok, right? They may encourage translation into English, like in this thread: http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11901

Ok, I guess softsubs are technically raws...

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 25th, '05, 14:10

hmm, we have put all raws with english softsubs available into the "english sub" category. And if a drama has english subs and other language subs as well it will also fall into the "english sub" category. This is mainly because a torrent can only in one category. :|

back to the topic... Personally I'm for english sub and raw only. :P
IMHO, chinese subbed drama should only accepted if no other verions are available. The fans of chinese subbed drama can still go to chinese trackers and post links to those in the Chinese Enterainment forum.
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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 14:36

MoerkJ wrote: IMHO, chinese subbed drama should only accepted if no other verions are available. The fans of chinese subbed drama can still go to chinese trackers and post links to those in the Chinese Enterainment forum.
.
Moerk, I'm not just singling you out on this--as many others think RAWS are ok too--but I feel it's a kind of discrimination when RAWS are accepted here but Chinese subbed dramas are not. Why?

I'm against Chinese subbed dramas because they are just like RAWS in my opinion. RAWS are useless for people who can only understand and read English, just like Chinese subbed dramas. So if RAWS are to be accepted here then there's not much credence to the argument of banning Chinese subbed dramas.

To be consistent and non-discriminatory, you either open the flood gates and let them all in, or you allow only Asian dramas with English subs (be they hard or soft) to be hosted at d-addicts. To allow RAWS but not Chinese subbed files seems arbitrary and discriminatory to me.

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Post by dmorgan » Jan 25th, '05, 14:49

MoerkJ wrote: back to the topic... Personally I'm for english sub and raw only. :P
IMHO, chinese subbed drama should only accepted if no other verions are available. The fans of chinese subbed drama can still go to chinese trackers and post links to those in the Chinese Enterainment forum.
.
I am with MoerkJ on this one. I do lean to English sub only. I'm open to chinese subbed version if no other version is available though.

also:
at ABMJ (alt.binaries.multimedia.japanese) you will find quite a bit of chinese subbed shows too

I agree that there are other sources for chinese subbed versions. Yesterday, I saw a post of chinese subbed torrent file links. :idea: Perhaps someone here could create a forum section for such links.
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Post by lolipss » Jan 25th, '05, 14:49

BT-Slut wrote:
MoerkJ wrote: IMHO, chinese subbed drama should only accepted if no other verions are available. The fans of chinese subbed drama can still go to chinese trackers and post links to those in the Chinese Enterainment forum.
.
Moerk, I'm not just singling you out on this--as many others think RAWS are ok too--but I feel it's a kind of discrimination when RAWS are accepted here but Chinese subbed dramas are not. Why?

I'm against Chinese subbed dramas because they are just like RAWS in my opinion. RAWS are useless for people who can only understand and read English, just like Chinese subbed dramas. So if RAWS are to be accepted here then there's not much credence to the argument of banning Chinese subbed dramas.

To be consistent and non-discriminatory, you either open the flood gates and let them all in, or you allow only Asian dramas with English subs (be they hard or soft) to be hosted at d-addicts. To allow RAWS but not Chinese subbed files seems arbitrary and discriminatory to me.
i agree with MOERKJ :lol
bt-slut: if RAW video is not allowed here, can u suggest where people can upload their RAW video then?
there aint so much drama bittorent site in english like d-addicts website out there.... :whistling:
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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 25th, '05, 14:55

The reasoning behind RAWs as I see it is most of them, heck I think all of them are of brand new series, sometimes only a couple days from its O.A. date and its usually in high quality. For kdramas it is easy enough to get it off the edonkey/emule networks but for jdramas you usually have to look at the japanese network and this is mostly winmx. If you ever use winmx you'll know how hard it is to find someone who has the file and who will let you download off them. I've spent 2 months so far trying to get this one file (downloaded half then got disconnected :x now I gotta find it again) so I know the pain :P

So thats why I'm more tolerant towards the raws, the chinese subs though usually can be found on other trackers and they're usually in less popular format used in the english speaking countries (i.e. rm and rvmb).

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 25th, '05, 15:19

BT-Slut wrote:Moerk, I'm not just singling you out on this--as many others think RAWS are ok too--but I feel it's a kind of discrimination when RAWS are accepted here but Chinese subbed dramas are not. Why?
You mix discrimination with specialization here. :nuts:
how could this be discrimination when we would focus on certain files?

I don't like torrents chinese subbed dramas uploaded because:
- *I* don't understand them (this is my personal issue)
- we are mainly an english speaking community
- chinese subbed dramas are often elsewhere available already (e.g. on chinese trackers)
- they are more suited to be uploaded on chinese trackers
- it would be waste of ressources to have many different versions of certain series here
- you can still post links and discuss chinese subbed stuff in the Chinese Entertainment forum
- those torrents would perhaps mainly attract people who are not part of "our community"

However, it would be still acceptable if there is no other (raw or english subbed) version available. Same would apply dramas subbed in any other language. As long as there is a good reason for uploading them it should be ok.

That is all my opinion. I'm just one of many voters here. :wink:
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Post by Carn » Jan 25th, '05, 15:43

Ruro, I've already voted, but could you clarify one thing?

By "Allow series other than Eng Sub and RAW", do you mean allow non-english subbed and raws? Or do you mean allow non-english subbed/non-raw files (ie, just other-language subbed files)?

Maybe it's already clear and I'm just really tired. It took me 5 tries to spell English. XD

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Post by beer » Jan 25th, '05, 15:44

Raws stay, Chinese subbed dramas go, unless accompanied by English softsubs. All softsubs will be timed to fit and attached to the torrent post of the particular file, unless included in the torrent. All raws that acquire softsubs will be transferred from raws section to engsub section. OST section will be separated, users will be provided an option not to display OST section and not to have OST topics show up in search results.

Engsubs to raws will be provided within 3 working days from the moment the torrent for the raw was posted. For the purpose of this rule the term 'engsub' stands for 'English subtitles', as opposed to 'Engrish' or 'Englisch'. Private calls are not be made on company phones. Any beverage with alcohol content less than 4.5% is not be referred to as 'beer'. Any reference to 'non-alcoholic beer' will be punishable.

I have spoken.

P.S. BT-Slut will be banned from Finnish dubs section whether such section will or will not be implemented in the foreseeable future.

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 15:48

MoerkJ wrote:
I don't like torrents chinese subbed dramas uploaded because:
- *I* don't understand them (this is my personal issue)
- we are mainly an english speaking community
- chinese subbed dramas are often elsewhere available already (e.g. on chinese trackers)
- they are more suited to be uploaded on chinese trackers
- it would be waste of ressources to have many different versions of certain series here
- you can still post links and discuss chinese subbed stuff in the Chinese Entertainment forum
- those torrents would perhaps mainly attract people who are not part of "our community"


That is all my opinion. I'm just one of many voters here. :wink:
Hi Moerk. As I said, I'm not attacking you. I'm quoting you because you're a Mod and you're thick skinned. You won't easily get hurt. :)

But listen, almost all the reasons you used above, I can equally use for RAWS. Here we go:

I don't like RAW torrents hosted at d-addicts because:
  • - I don't understand them (thus the need for e-subs on my part)
    - we are mainly an english speaking community (thus the need for e-subs, not RAWS)
    - RAWS are often elsewhere available already (unless the original ripper decides to distribute using d-addicts as his/her primary hub)
    - RAWS are better suited if uploaded onto J/K/CH trackers catering to their respective audiences.
    - it's a waste of ressources to host different versions of RAWS here (especially 350 vs. 700 MB K-RAW files)
    - RAWS most likely attract people who are not part of "our community" (i.e. they are here for the native RAW files; they don't care about e-subs for the Asian-language-challenged.)
Of course all of this is moot if Ruro delcares he wishes his site to host all these files. It's his site and he certainly can make of it what he envisions. I'm not here to challenge Ruro's wishes. :D As long as I can choose--and default--to only see certain sub-groups of all the torrents listed, I am willing to compromise. :roll

As for Beer's comments regarding RAWS, I know it's a joke, but I like all his decrees. If e-subs come 3 days after the RAWS are posted, I'm all for RAWS! :D

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 25th, '05, 17:01

BT-Slut wrote:But listen, almost all the reasons you used above, I can equally use for RAWS
oh, raw files... I though they are not questioned here. :P

True, I'm personally not much interested in RAWs either. But I like to have them when english softsubs for them are available. :wink:
Because I can get some RAWs also somewhere else I don't see a need for all of them getting uploaded here. Actually I want them uploaded more wisely. They should only be uploaded if there is really a chance of getting fansubbed or if they are of high interest and not available anywhere else. Ruroshin pointed that out here.

The experienced uploaders are not the problem here. They know what to upload. But lots of the new uploaders should think about what they upload. Maybe they should even ask if there is interest before they upload. At the moment the RAWs consume a tolerable amount of resources (21 out of 125 torrent pages). Those torrents also include musicvideos, unsubbed variety shows, and some english dubbed documentaries. Many raw files may be a necessary evil for some of us but there are still some good reasons to have them (see Ruroshins post).

P.S. I also like beer's rule that the subtitles have to be uploaded within 3 working days after the RAW was uploaded. Give that man more beer. He's a genius!
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Post by Cinemade » Jan 25th, '05, 17:10

Technically (server use wise and such) if there isn't much a problem with having non-english subtitled torrents-- I don't see why not. I mean, though I'm not one of those that would make use of such torrents, having them exist for those who can use them does not take away anything from those of us who do not.

Sometimes it even seems to promote creation of english subtitles. I recall reading threads here and there of people who have offered "timings" of chinese subs for english subbing use. I originally came to this site to find OSTs in its early aqua blue days and now it's evolved into this drama giant. The site even had movies at one point. Variety doesn't hurt...unless it starts to take away from what seems to be the focus of this site (english subtitled drama).

That is just my opinion though.

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 19:46

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... b05f4b254a

I don't know what to make of the stats on the above RAW file of H2.

It was posted last Friday and according to the stats, it's been downloaded 829 times already. This is a RAW with no e-subs. If the stats are to be believe, there is clearly a large pool of downloaders who are native Japanese speakers and they come here just to leech the RAW files. I can't believe there isn't a Japanese tracker in Japan that they can use to host these RAW files. Obviously there is enough demand for such a Japanese website/tracker.

That is a massive amount of downloaders. I'm simply astounded that many users come here to leech RAWS.

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 25th, '05, 20:16

Cinemade wrote:Technically (server use wise and such) if there isn't much a problem with having non-english subtitled torrents-- I don't see why not. I mean, though I'm not one of those that would make use of such torrents, having them exist for those who can use them does not take away anything from those of us who do not.
well, you are right when you only see things like they are now. But we discuss here actually countermeasures against some recent bad trends to make d-addicts still enjoyable in a few months. I must make sense to everybody here that this site can not grow endlessly.
Thats why we (the mods) are currently refining the "upload guidelines" and plan a little "spring cleaning". No drastical things are planned so far just some common sense stuff.
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Post by blakmetalik » Jan 25th, '05, 20:25

BT-Slut wrote: It was posted last Friday and according to the stats, it's been downloaded 829 times already. This is a RAW with no e-subs. If the stats are to be believe, there is clearly a large pool of downloaders who are native Japanese speakers and they come here just to leech the RAW files. I can't believe there isn't a Japanese tracker in Japan that they can use to host these RAW files. Obviously there is enough demand for such a Japanese website/tracker.
From what I've observed (and I could be wrong), when it comes to new shows, especially those featuring popular actors/actresses or those that are sequels to a popular series, a lot of people who don't understand Japanese are still interested in watching it in raw format - probably because they're too anxious to watch it and can't wait for a subbed version. This could explain why the number of people downloading H2 is high: (1) it's a live action version of a popular anime/manga series, and (2) it's starring Yamada Takayuki, a young actor of rising fame.

There are also some people who know a little Japanese (studying it in school or are self-studying it), who like to use raws to practice the language, (even though they may not understand more than 20-40% of what's going on :unsure:).

Of course, there are probably a certain amount of people who understand the langauge (but maybe can't fluently read Japanese?), that come here specifically to download raws.

At any rate, I'm just putting forth my personal observations.

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Post by jyoji » Jan 25th, '05, 20:32

blakmetalik wrote: Of course, there are probably a certain amount of people who understand the langauge (but maybe can't fluently read Japanese?), that come here specifically to download raws.

At any rate, I'm just putting forth my personal observations.
Agree on that point. Some people might understand the language be it japanese, chinese, korean, etc but can't read. So they would not be able to go to the sites that's in that particular language to download from..
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Post by Carn » Jan 25th, '05, 20:36

blakmetalik wrote:From what I've observed (and I could be wrong), when it comes to new shows, especially those featuring popular actors/actresses or those that are sequels to a popular series, a lot of people who don't understand Japanese are still interested in watching it in raw format - probably because they're too anxious to watch it and can't wait for a subbed version.
Oh, well put. I completely agree. ^_^ If I weren't downloading all this other crap and uploading too, I'd explore a little into some of the new series. >_>;

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Post by donna8157 » Jan 25th, '05, 20:44

I understand that the majority of the people that are here are English-speaking and would only rather see English fansubs or RAWS on this site. However, the Chinese fansubbed projects have given me a wider variety of doramas to download from. (only the completed series ones such as "Water Boys 2", "Minami-kun no Koibito", and "Ikebukuro West Gate Park") which if I were waiting for the English subs, I would have had to wait much longer.

I agree that the episode by episode Chinese fansubbing does seem to clutter our torrents list, however I was wondering if it was possible to continue those torrents that are of completed series (batch torrents). I find it hard to navigate through those Chinese websites mainly because I usually don't know the Chinese name for the Japanese dramas and their sites are always littered with pop-ups and adware.

As for RAWS, I especially enjoy watching the new shows this season like "Gokuesn 2", "24 Hour Emergency Ward III", and "H2". Even though I don't understand much Japanese (and whatever I do understand is because of watching so many Japanese doramas), I still find them entertaining to watch. Thanks.

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 25th, '05, 20:53

donna8157 wrote: As for RAWS, I especially enjoy watching the new shows this season like "Gokuesn 2", "24 Hour Emergency Ward III", and "H2". Even though I don't understand much Japanese (and whatever I do understand is because of watching so many Japanese doramas), I still find them entertaining to watch. Thanks.
OMG. I cannot believe what I'm seeing. Is this for realz?

I just went to check the RAW section and saw that Gokusen 2 has over 1700 completed downloads. It was only posted this past Sunday.

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... 0ddf5f5c93

I'm utterly dumbfounded. :blink :goggle: :w000t:

But it also reveals that RAW k-drama files, in general, are not downloaded much.

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Post by xiaryx » Jan 25th, '05, 21:08

Hmm it is good to hear feedbacks on this issue.

In my opinion, I would say only allow English and RAW files, mainly because this is an English based site. It has become hard to manage as shows subbed in other languages begins to overwhelm the site.

There are alot of people out there who use RAW to practice the language.

However, alot of new shows generally come out first Chinese subbed. It would be a great lost for those who knows Chinese (like myself), but that is not the point of this site.

For those who support Chinese and other langugage subbed files, please voice your opinion before we kill them :w00t:

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Post by techie » Jan 25th, '05, 21:16

I voted YES with one pre-requisit of course.

As long the files are provided in SRT or SMI or other viable sub title soft file format, why the (place-suitable-word-here) should not the Swahili speaking community be able to enjoy it if they want to.

As long their not hard coded that is :)

Considering the fact only in India there are like 800 linguistic dialects, it would soon be incomprehensible to manage all variations of hard coded files, but soft subs, hmmmm.

You can host your own files and make a link list as long as the forum script it self as far I'm concerned.
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Post by prettylady » Jan 25th, '05, 21:23

i think the files of the torrents should be posted her..
it really is convenient for everyone..
but it's not really necessary to put the files on d-addicts' tracker..
only the torrents are sufficient... and that won't take up so much resource..
as torrent files are less than 50kb normally...

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Post by techie » Jan 25th, '05, 21:25

prettylady wrote: but it's not really necessary to put the files on d-addicts' tracker..
I think the issue per say is not the file storage but the tracker load in itself.
Using the torrents to download the files put a certain strain on the server holding the tracker.

At no time is the ifle stored on the tracker. That would impose a whole new set of problems as has been discussed in other threads in here.
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Post by Carn » Jan 25th, '05, 21:26

xiaryx wrote:For those who support Chinese and other langugage subbed files, please voice your opinion before we kill them :w00t:
Ahhhh, xiaryx. :lol I read that as "before we kill [those who support Chinese and other language subbed files]." That freaked me out for a second :blink . ^____^

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Post by okumasama » Jan 25th, '05, 21:34

BT-Slut wrote:I can't believe there isn't a Japanese tracker in Japan that they can use to host these RAW files. Obviously there is enough demand for such a Japanese website/tracker.
I had the same question till a few weeks ago. Why Japanese people don't use Bittorent? It is just so much more efficient than enything else. When after disgussing a bit with some people I found the reason: Japanese national anti-piracy investigation team is one of the most active in the world. They have arrested lots of downloaders, something that drove people into making other pear-to-pear programs with on-the-fly encryption that are supposed not to reveal your ID in any case. (the programmer of one of those actually was busted). I don't know how secure in fact these programs are but most people are using them cause they feel the police won't bang their door next day or today. That's the main reason that Bittorrent didn't expand in Japan...
Now if some Japanese people don't give a s**t about what's going on and manage to read through guides and access English sites like this one and finally get the files fast and easy with bittorent, they deserve my congratulations.
But don't forget that there is a big amount of people that are downloading all these RAWs not for watching them but for .... downloading and collecting. These are the d-collectors-addicts! Hoping that sometimes they will learn Japanese and will watch all of these, or that with these raws they can increase their Japanese abilities (well in fact they can) they just download everything they can find in this site. Specially when it comes that a RAW will have a few famous actors in it, they will just get it to have their favourite actor...
I heard people saying that RAWs come as material to funsubbers but I don't see it that way. Usually Chinese DVDs are used just for the simple reason that they come with the subtitles timing ready; thus extremely easier... Well anyway the RAWs are in our lifes now...
Last edited by okumasama on Jan 25th, '05, 21:38, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by blakmetalik » Jan 25th, '05, 21:35

Carn wrote:
xiaryx wrote:For those who support Chinese and other langugage subbed files, please voice your opinion before we kill them :w00t:
Ahhhh, xiaryx. :lol I read that as "before we kill [those who support Chinese and other language subbed files]." That freaked me out for a second :blink . ^____^
So did I for a sec! :crazy:

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Post by xiaryx » Jan 25th, '05, 21:36

blakmetalik wrote:
Carn wrote:
xiaryx wrote:For those who support Chinese and other langugage subbed files, please voice your opinion before we kill them :w00t:
Ahhhh, xiaryx. :lol I read that as "before we kill [those who support Chinese and other language subbed files]." That freaked me out for a second :blink . ^____^
So did I for a sec! :crazy:
LOL. Gomene. I guess the shock effect is pretty effective then haha...

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Post by techie » Jan 25th, '05, 21:51

xiaryx wrote:For those who support Chinese and other langugage subbed files, please voice your opinion before we kill them :w00t:
LOL... now we have had suicide pacts when the server goes down, and small Ninja-mods going after undesired posts... LOL
Ruro-sama you're like the d-addicts Shogun here now huh :)

okumasama, very interesting detailed information.
I was suspecting that was the case and that it's very hard to get fast lines or connections without extensive monitoring ability in Japan.

Seems most of the connections I find originating in Japan go through very few large resources and it would be fairly simple to track user activity too.
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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 25th, '05, 22:27

prettylady wrote:i think the files of the torrents should be posted her..
it really is convenient for everyone..
but it's not really necessary to put the files on d-addicts' tracker..
only the torrents are sufficient... and that won't take up so much resource..
as torrent files are less than 50kb normally...
It is much better to post links to torrents of other trackers in some forum threads. That is because once a torrent file of another tracker is uploaded here it is very hard for us mods to manage them. Lots of those torrents die very soon and just hog resources. Did you ever read that "non d-addicts trackers data is generated every 30 minutes" sentence on the tracker page? Also we don't have a search filter to find all those external torrents. :|

If you post torrent links in a forum thread and discuss them, then all ppl who are interested in those torrents would notice when they are dead. We mods don't have to care about them. Links to dead torrents can be deleted by the origianl poster for example.

Another solution would be that all uploaded torrents from other trackers will automatically expire and get deleted after a certain time, f.ex. 1 week (just kidding) or 3 months.
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Post by dmorgan » Jan 25th, '05, 22:37

okumasama wrote: Japanese national anti-piracy investigation team is one of the most active in the world. They have arrested lots of downloaders, something that drove people into making other pear-to-pear programs with on-the-fly encryption that are supposed not to reveal your ID in any case. (the programmer of one of those actually was busted). .
Does this mean that none of us can go to Japan? :cry:

-Japanese custom agent- :cussing: "Alright dmorgan, you've got some explaining to do"

Maybe I should leave my files at home..... :mrgreen:
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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 25th, '05, 22:43

Carn wrote: Or do you mean allow non-english subbed/non-raw files (ie, just other-language subbed files)?
Yeah I meant that.

MoerkJ wrote: Also we don't have a search filter to find all those external torrents. :|
.
I just added a new "External Tracker" filter :wink:

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Post by theedqueen » Jan 25th, '05, 22:50

I'm fine with raws as long as soft subs are provided. I think raws are mainly important when shows are first being released, so that fans here can d/l say the first ep to see whether or not they like what they watched and then generate support to get the series subbed. Raws are also nice for media purposes such as if someone wanted to make an MV for the show, or if they wanted to use it for screen shots to make wall papers and stuff. I don't mind Chinese subs as long as they're in soft sub format and not hard subbed. That way chinese hard subbed files aren't cluttering up the torrent pages, but the sub files are there for those who want to replace english soft subs with chinese ones.
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Post by keisuke » Jan 25th, '05, 23:09

please don't ban RAWs!! personally speaking, i looooooove RAWs because im japanese. however, RAWs are a good way for english-speaking people to learn Japanese. Some english speakers, probably already know enough japanese to understand most of the japanese drama. looking at the 1700 completed files for gokusen, there are certainly a lot of people who seek RAWs.

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Post by amrayu » Jan 25th, '05, 23:26

okumasama wrote: I heard people saying that RAWs come as material to funsubbers but I don't see it that way. Usually Chinese DVDs are used just for the simple reason that they come with the subtitles timing ready; thus extremely easier... Well anyway the RAWs are in our lifes now...
Perhaps your group doesn't rely on the raws, but many others do. Studio Oto uses them (last christmas, tobosha, tokyo wankei), JTV used them (although they have concentrated more on DVD sources now), FOB/kdrama (Pride, Stairway to heaven-korean, Gumiho-korean, Love story in harvard-korean..etc.), SARS (Orange days, Gokusen 2) , Mugen-dorama, and even your group has (mother and lover).

I download most of the japanese raws that i see at d-addicts (even korean ones too!). Because I am one of those d-collectors that okumasama has mentioned. I'm studying japanese & korean and I think it is a good outlet to learn more about the languages from the raws.
Japanese raws are hard to get, you need atleast some understanding of japanese, to figure out Winny. Luckily, theres people like chiisai_tantei, massaru, junkboy (sorry if i left out any other raw seeders) that deal with these proggies and then upload it here at d-addicts.
So, Raws.. yes or no? I say yes! :) But it's clear that Ruroshin wants to keep raws, since its included in the poll.
Chinese subbed stuff? Just have a separate thread in the forum for those files.

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Post by tailchaser » Jan 26th, '05, 00:10

While it seems that there are many Chinese speakers on d-addicts, c-subbed dramas are of no use to me personally, unless they are soft subbed, in which case they really are raws anyway. Also, abmj is mostly c-subbed j-dramas. So there is a source for them. <i>Definitely</i> allow raws. Especially after what amrayu said about them. Good for inspiring subbing groups to work on them and for students of Japanese or Korean. I don't usually download them, but now that I have two 400 GB hard drives I may start.

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Post by Kai Lien » Jan 26th, '05, 00:15

Yes, raws should be allowed here. Torrents (like the chinese subbed ones) that already have a tracker from another website don't have to be on the tracker since they are on another website and if the people who download them can read chinese then they obviously can find it themselves. And if they wanted to share with others at d-addicts then they can just post them in the chinese entertainment forum or something.

What about those people who just want raws? How are they going to get it? BT-Slut pointed out that over 1,700 people downloaded a raw of gokusen 2. People are obviously interested in them. So why don't we just let them be here...or at least a limited amount or set some sort of rules for them.

Here's another example. Creidesca generously offered to upload the tw drama, Westside Story without any english subtitles to share with us. Unless there's another bt website for asian dramas, what better place could she upload it to? If d-addicts doesn't allow raws anymore, where would I get her avi encodes of that show?! I can barely understand and read chinese...but I want to watch the show anyway.

So, when voting for this poll, please have sympathy to those who want raws and can't find it themselves, k? Image

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Post by Calcifer » Jan 26th, '05, 00:32

Kai Lien wrote:Yes, raws should be allowed here. Torrents (like the chinese subbed ones) that already have a tracker from another website don't have to be on the tracker since they are on another website and if the people who download them can read chinese then they obviously can find it themselves. And if they wanted to share with others at d-addicts then they can just post them in the chinese entertainment forum or something.

What about those people who just want raws? How are they going to get it? BT-Slut pointed out that over 1,700 people downloaded a raw of gokusen 2. People are obviously interested in them. So why don't we just let them be here...or at least a limited amount or set some sort of rules for them.

Here's another example. Creidesca generously offered to upload the tw drama, Westside Story without any english subtitles to share with us. Unless there's another bt website for asian dramas, what better place could she upload it to? If d-addicts doesn't allow raws anymore, where would I get her avi encodes of that show?! I can barely understand and read chinese...but I want to watch the show anyway.

So, when voting for this poll, please have sympathy to those who want raws and can't find it themselves, k? Image
I'm with Kai Lien when it comes to raws and I speak out as one of out of those 10 cases of people was able to get raw files of a relatively new series here, watch it, judge it, get obsessed with it and e-sub it. 8) I have no comment on Chinese or other language-subbed files, but as BT-Slut has made the point multiple times, they are basically like raws. If people think it's too cluttered, maybe uploaders should post more polls regarding interest in what they plan to make available?

Though I guess, if this topic's about allowing things other than raws and eng-subs, my point's moot, eh? :P

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Post by jholic » Jan 26th, '05, 00:44

well, gonna have to piecemeal everyone's words since i kinda agree with a little of each.

as lolipss, 'tama, and MoerkJ have said ('tama, since you're borrowing my words, i hope you don't mind me borrowing yours! :D ).
animetama wrote:If a title is available somewhere else, why does it need to be on D-A's tracker?
you hit the nail on the head. i really think that's the real issue. the mods should create a sticky in each Entertainment section (j/k/c) and allow people to announce when a torrent is available on another tracker, abmj, space-the-final-frontier, or wherever. except for a select few people (who Ruro can grant special permission to - ie, the fansub groups, jem, etc), if the announce url is not d-addicts, then you should make an announcement, and it shouldn't be uploaded here.
BT-Slut wrote:I guess that's the real question that needs to be discussed and answered here: whether d-addicts is a carte blanche drama community serving the entire world population or whether d-addicts is a more specialized site focused on serving Asian dramas to the English speaking/reading population.
and i believe you and i have both been waiting on a statement from Ruro on that. it looks like this poll is going to decide it.

i'm not fluent in any other languages, but as of this writing, i have never been lead to believe that this site is ONLY for english-speaking people. i've always thought that Ruro created d-addicts to spread the love of asian drama throughout the world - whatever your language.

but if you've got an alternative distribution location (like another tracker), then you really should use that instead.

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Post by toilet_bear » Jan 26th, '05, 00:45

hmm.... but im chinese! and chinese is cool! :) so lets all learn some chinese :D
haha, anyways, i like chinese subtitles :) it helps me learn chinese... (because i cant really read it...) and when there are subtitles there, that are chinese, i can watch, listen, and read at the same time.. all the while learning chinese :D anyways... thats just wat i think. because... i am chinese -_-;;; but i suppose to everyone else that is not chinese... ^_^ lets learn for fun!! :) YEAAA~ lalalala~ ...jk ... i dont really know what im talking about.... T-T;;; :cry:

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 26th, '05, 02:12

/me flushes toilet_bear
Ruroshin wrote:
MoerkJ wrote: Also we don't have a search filter to find all those external torrents. :|
I just added a new "External Tracker" filter :wink:
How do you do that mind reading stuff? :lol
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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 26th, '05, 12:49

jholic wrote: and i believe you and i have both been waiting on a statement from Ruro on that. it looks like this poll is going to decide it.

i'm not fluent in any other languages, but as of this writing, i have never been lead to believe that this site is ONLY for english-speaking people. i've always thought that Ruro created d-addicts to spread the love of asian drama throughout the world - whatever your language.
In an ideal world I would like to have d-addicts be accepting all things asian drama with an organised way for people to find what they want without hassle. However, I do realise that the resource we have is finite so therefore I can only help out the clear majority. So thats why this poll will decide which direction d-addict will take. If the community doesn't want the the other torrents here then they will have to go, if the poll is pretty close then I will keep them.

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Post by DarReNz » Jan 26th, '05, 12:54

hmm i think chinese sub should be allowed so that those who can understand it without the sub can enjoy it. For those who don't, someone could just help translate them to english. With this, it's a win-win situation for both sides :lol

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 26th, '05, 13:15

jholic wrote: i'm not fluent in any other languages, but as of this writing, i have never been lead to believe that this site is ONLY for english-speaking people. i've always thought that Ruro created d-addicts to spread the love of asian drama throughout the world - whatever your language.
It is implicitly implied, if not explicity stated. Do you see a section on this website which is reserved for discussion in another langauge? Do you see FAQs written in other langugaes? Do you see seed requests made in Chinese or Japanese for a particular episode? It is implied that this website is for English speakers. No one has said ONLY English-speakers. (You seem to keep on stating it's ONLY for English speakers in your posts.) I have not asserted that. Come one come all. But this site is indeed catering to English speakers primarily--or at least that was the case. Perhaps it is changing as we discuss this issue, but that was the case.

I still say Ruro started this website primarily for Japanese dramas with English subs. All the other Asian dramas came later.

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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 26th, '05, 13:33

BT-Slut wrote: I still say Ruro started this website primarily for Japanese dramas with English subs. All the other Asian dramas came later.
This is/was correct. D-Addicts started out as an idea on jdorama.com so that says it all.

This site will always be focus on sharing asian dramas. The scope of that though, will change over time. Just as the site started out as jdrama then to include k/c drama so now we must decide the next change in scope.
Last edited by Ruroshin on Jan 26th, '05, 13:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by sosushi2 » Jan 26th, '05, 13:35

I personally can only understand the English subbed dramas, but I have no problem with adding any other dramas that other people would enjoy. Thank you so much for categorizing the different types of dramas. It makes it sooooo much easier to find what I might be interested in.

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Post by Olga_2005 » Jan 27th, '05, 16:55

Ruroshin wrote:This site will always be focus on sharing asian dramas.
If it was focused on sharing Asian dramas then, what if some people who don't understand English too well who'd want to see some Asian dramas too, or what if someone would prefer to watch it subtitled in their own language? Shearing is shearing, I don't see why the subtitles should be limited to English only.
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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 27th, '05, 23:00

Olga_2005 wrote:
Ruroshin wrote:This site will always be focus on sharing asian dramas.
If it was focused on sharing Asian dramas then, what if some people who don't understand English too well who'd want to see some Asian dramas too, or what if someone would prefer to watch it subtitled in their own language? Shearing is shearing, I don't see why the subtitles should be limited to English only.
I don't think you've read my earilier posts. Its about scoping. Ideally yes in a perfect world I would like to cater to everybody regardless of languages but realistically it may not be possible due to limitation on resources. The first problem that arose from this was the cluttering of the torrent page where it was hard for people to find what they wanted, I've tried to fix this with the tab feature.

There are other potential problems which are behind the scene stuff and are not visible to the users. I have said currently this isn't something that is caused for me to start annihilating torrents but its probably not sustainable with the current architecture. If there is a real demand for series with other subtitles then I will consider it and try to come up with a solution hence this poll to see if its worth my time or not.

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Post by LittleGreenGrasshopper » Jan 27th, '05, 23:22

Sigh, can't believe there comes a day when I'm actually backing up MJ on something, but.... yup, I agree and support MJ on his stance on the chinese-subbed torrents.

1) He said as long as there are no other BT torrents on other trackers out there. I have to agree, if you can read chinese subtitles, then, there's a good chance that the drama is already on another tracker out there, why bother uploading it to the d-a tracker?

As for raws, that's one place where I would prolly side with BT. So far, how many of the raws actually resulted in english subtitles being made? I'm not familar with the Full House one, whether zdoon made the subtitles because of the raws were being uploaded or otherwise. However, in the case of LSIH, the softsubs were being made, independent of the raws being uploaded (why? because the uploaded raws are unorganized and incomplete, and not even the ones used as the basis for subbing/timing). Hence, as of this moment, it hasn't really been an effective catalyst for potential e-subbing (as so many has reasoned it to be). Most of those who are willing to e-sub, usually get their raws elsewhere.

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Post by Olga_2005 » Jan 27th, '05, 23:42

Oh, I thought that it was just about uploading shows with other subs or not, I didn't think there was a whole story behind this and stuff that will cause some problems, etc. ^^"..
Well, in that case I guess it will depend on how many people would want to have Chinese subs here huh... *turnes around and runs away* (donno Chinese.. and donno anything about trackers.. or whatever the problem will be..)
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Post by jholic » Jan 28th, '05, 00:41

Ruroshin wrote:In an ideal world I would like to have d-addicts be accepting all things asian drama with an organised way for people to find what they want without hassle. However, I do realise that the resource we have is finite so therefore I can only help out the clear majority. So thats why this poll will decide which direction d-addict will take. If the community doesn't want the the other torrents here then they will have to go, if the poll is pretty close then I will keep them.
Ruro: thanks for the response. i think starting this poll is a great idea. and we'll see what the final results are.

BT: i think the problem with your statements are that they call exclusively for english-subbed dramas. not even raws. this caters to YOUR needs. i have accepted d-addicts as a site that i SHARE with other people. irregardless of what language they speak, read, or dl. as far as i'm aware, this entire issue came about when too many dramas, held on other trackers, were being posted at d-addicts. i have held that this is the most important point. we should just brainstorm on solving this particular issue. (and i thought that Ruro did by making the 'tabbed thingy'). instead, it seems we're trying to decide which language d-addicts is for.

i do not have a problem with dramas subbed in other languages. but it seems that you do. why? i'm not entirely sure. if i don't like the drama, i just don't dl it. but there are dl'ers for those dramas, so someone must appreciate it. you remain adamant about ridding d-addicts of non-e-subbed and raw dramas. what about the people who enjoy them?

in any case, i guess we leave it up to the poll.

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Post by aNToK » Jan 28th, '05, 01:10

Hmm... Well, after giving this matter more thought, my opinion is to not allow series to be uploaded that are hard-subbed in other languages, unless accompanied by English subs as well. There are plenty of existing resources for them, and I have yet to see someone create subs for a drama with existing hardsubs in it's native language. Raws are just fine in my opinion, as several have been or are in the process of being subbed. That said, it would be outstanding if there were more Chinese/TW series with E-subs available, since Mandarin is the language I'm trying actively to learn.....
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Post by Kai Lien » Jan 28th, '05, 01:10

I'm with ya, jholic! I'm glad you seem to care about this subject and that we see things in the same light.

C'mon you guys.... :cry: I'm kinda sad about this whole thing. I seriously though d-a was a place to share asian dramas. Even though I don't download a lot of the raws posted here ( because they're not interesting to me and I don't dl much anyway) I really want some of the ones posted here. Like what if a member here has a series and wants to share it and people want it too. It's not going to be allowed anymore? :cry: But there aren't many english subbed ones available and I can't find them myself because my chinese reading is just not good enough! I know we can't just upload anything we please but there must be a better solution for this. If raws shouldn't be allowed then doesn't award shows or osts fit in that category as well? I get the fact that we have to really don't understand why everyone is against raws. The only reason we shouldn't have them here is if they are using up too much resources. Then, I'm totally for not having raws here! But if people don't want raws here because it makes it harder to navigate... the tabbed idea has already solved that problem. :blink
Last edited by Kai Lien on Jan 28th, '05, 01:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by chinamp3 » Jan 28th, '05, 01:14

well, i think it is apporiate to post up any drama with English subtitle because many people around the gloab know some or much of english. It is kind of a common or universal lanugae. I don't know what is RAW subtile? Can some explain? or send a private message to me. Thank you very much. However, like others say that, if one has something drama to share, feel free to share. I don't want to make a rule in this website. I want everyone feel free to share what they have with others.
Thank you very much.

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Post by pjyoon » Jan 28th, '05, 01:58

Is the issue resources or presentation clutter?

If it is resources, then I selfish opinion would be to only allow
english subs and RAWs.

However, if there are no issues with resources, I think that we should
allow all, and come up with an easier way for English-only speaking/reading
people to find what they are looking for (also a selfish motive here).

Something like:

Section 1: Hardcoded-english subbed torrents
Section 2: Non-english subbed torrents (RAWS and other hard coded subs)
Section 3: Soft Sub files for section 2
Section 3.a: english soft subs
Section 3.b: chinese soft subs
Section 3.x: etc.


Granted, this still takes the "Primarily English speaking/reading community" viewpoint.

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Post by iceberri » Jan 28th, '05, 02:01

Kai Lien wrote:C'mon you guys.... :cry: I'm kinda sad about this whole thing. I seriously though d-a was a place to share asian dramas. Even though I don't download a lot of the raws posted here ( because they're not interesting to me and I don't dl much anyway) I really want some of the ones posted here. Like what if a member here has a series and wants to share it and people want it too. It's not going to be allowed anymore? :cry: But there aren't many english subbed ones available and I can't find them myself because my chinese reading is just not good enough! I know we can't just upload anything we please but there must be a better solution for this. If raws shouldn't be allowed then doesn't award shows or osts fit in that category as well? I get the fact that we have to really don't understand why everyone is against raws. The only reason we shouldn't have them here is if they are using up too much resources. Then, I'm totally for not having raws here! But if people don't want raws here because it makes it harder to navigate... the tabbed idea has already solved that problem. :blink
Hmmm, am I misunderstanding something here? :scratch: Raws and English-subbed things will still be allowed on the tracker as indicated by the poll question -- the question at hand are the chinese-subbed torrents that are available on other trackers and can be linked through a stickied forum thread. That's because they are cluttering the interface and adding unnecessary strain to the tracker. Why post here when there are a dozen other places to post? Why is everyone talking about if Raws will be banned??
Last edited by iceberri on Jan 28th, '05, 02:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by groink » Jan 28th, '05, 02:02

jholic wrote:i do not have a problem with dramas subbed in other languages. but it seems that you do. why?
Let me give this one a shot... I'm starting to see a much broader issue here.

First off, I've been on ARPANet and later the Internet for over 25 years. Even today, I have no problem using the dozens of different portals to find things. And, I think others with the years of experience on the 'net like myself feel the same about obtaining resources from many different locations. If I want something, I have a good idea what resource I should be checking. That's if information is organized the way they should.

Observing the way people use Internet resources today, there's a HUGE, aggressive effort by the less-experienced crowd to create these one-stop shops I call "mega-portals". Basically, you combine a vast variety of interests together into a single portal, rather than have a variety of individual portals, each with a more specific interest. The whole idea behind the mega-portal effort is that you surf a smaller number of Internet resources than you want to. That's why in this day and age search engines like Google are now a necessity.

With D-Addicts being a community-based system, members of the community strongly believe that all resources with enjoyment potential by other members should be stored on D-Addicts, hence this mega-portal approach to organization. And this is also occuring on other portals like JDorama.com, where that place is now basically a mish-mosh of Asian entertainment (and even non-Asian topics) on the Internet. JDorama.com is basically now a community of members with interests in everything, rather than a resource for a particular interest.

Reading the other posts, I get the feeling that certain members would rather have D-Addicts focus on English speakers than to attempt at being that one-stop shop for everyone. I'm for this idea... Being a total anal-retentive and organized person, I feel that the organization, the categorization, and the separation of information across multiple portals is healthy for the Internet. In other words, I have absolutely no problem having to surf a dozen BT portals to find all the torrents I need. That's part of the Internet experience, and I came to accept that years ago. However, there are members with less surfing experience that do not want to be forced to surf a Chinese-based portal for Chinese-subbed entertainment, or a Japan-based portal to surf for Japanese RAWs.

What it basicaly comes down is a person's overall philosophy on how information on the Internet should be organized:

1) Portals, each specializing in a particular type of resource.
2) Portals, each having a variety of interests.

For someone like myself, I totally hate redundancy, meaning if a particular resource is stored at XXXXX, then why bother storing that same resource, or even a pointer to XXXXX, on YYYYY. It's not a finite correct or wrong philosophy on my part, that's just the way I process thing in my head. If everything on the Internet was well-organized, things can be found quite easily. But instead, you have these mega-portals, each packed with everything.

Wanting D-Addicts to have all things Asian, to me, is actually a side-effect to a bigger problem, where all the other Asian portals do a poor job in organizing information. And Ruroshin feels it's his job to band-aid the situation by making D-Addicts this mega-portal. Again, he's not right or wrong to do this... He is serving the mega-portal fans. However, until the filters were put in place, it affected those like myself, and probably others, who considered the blob of torrents disruptive because of the lack of organization. One more time, it is not a right or wrong way of looking at things. Ruroshin has the final say in this, and so far he's trying to be everyone's friend by putting these filters in place.

But that's just me!

--- groink
Last edited by groink on Jan 28th, '05, 02:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Touya » Jan 28th, '05, 02:03

BT-Slut wrote:I've been pretty vocal about my stance already. So I'll refrain from verbosely repeating myself here. I will simply say I think only e-subbed dramas should be uploaded/hosted here. RAWS and other language subbed Asian dramas should be hosted elsewhere.
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Post by Brightstar » Jan 28th, '05, 02:29

Touya wrote:
BT-Slut wrote:I've been pretty vocal about my stance already. So I'll refrain from verbosely repeating myself here. I will simply say I think only e-subbed dramas should be uploaded/hosted here. RAWS and other language subbed Asian dramas should be hosted elsewhere.
Aye.[/quote

Aye Aye.]

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 28th, '05, 03:01

I haven't voted yet but I'm probably gonna vote "no" so that only English subbed and raws are posted. I download Chinese subbed Japanese dramas sometimes, but only when the series is dirt-old and I can't find or get raws for it. Usually they are VCD rips and even lately VCD's still aren't that hard to come by. So I can live without Chinese subbed stuff being posted on here. Especially since if it were up to me the Chinese subbed stuff that would be allowed would be within discriminitive criteria which would probably be too difficult and a pain for many to deem whether it'd be allowed or not. :lol Plus I would prefer not to see a large influx of dubs, Malay subbed, Indo subbed, Thai subbed, Viet subbed, bla bla bla etcetera. Though Chinese subbed is most common, it could come to that and be even more difficult than it was a week ago.

So overall I go for raws and English subbed I think, with Chinese subbed stuff on other trackers posted in stickies in each section instead, to make it easier and more organized for everyone. Although I use Chinese subbed stuff sometimes, getting them from a Chinese tracker isn't really feasable for me unless I'm directly linked to it. I can't type, read, or search in Chinese. I can only type in English or Japanese. The Chinese subbed stuff are only "substitute raws" for me when nothing else is available. For the sake of ease and organization of D-addicts, I can live without them being posted here because it's NOT impossible to get them elsewhere even if it's by ordering boxsets online (which I've done before). There's always another way :) I'm for some limitation to make things easier, even if I lose out a little. Nobody will ever be completely satisfied all the time, right? :P
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Post by Kai Lien » Jan 28th, '05, 03:17

iceberri wrote: Hmmm, am I misunderstanding something here? :scratch: Raws and English-subbed things will still be allowed on the tracker as indicated by the poll question -- the question at hand are the chinese-subbed torrents that are available on other trackers and can be linked through a stickied forum thread. That's because they are cluttering the interface and adding unnecessary strain to the tracker. Why post here when there are a dozen other places to post? Why is everyone talking about if Raws will be banned??
ohhh my...I read it wrong. Image Thanks for pointing that out to me. I kinda thought I read it wrong at one time but ayyy I feel so stupid now. Image

In that case, Well, like I said in the my first post in this topic, they can just be posted in that sticky. But I warn ya sometimes those torrents from those chinese sites don't last that long. So those links might die at any given time.

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Post by iceberri » Jan 28th, '05, 03:31

Kai Lien wrote:In that case, Well, like I said in the my first post in this topic, they can just be posted in that sticky. But I warn ya sometimes those torrents from those chinese sites don't last that long. So those links might die at any given time.
Actually, that's why some of the mods were discussing this beforehand -- because chinese torrents have a tendency of dying out really quickly, they'd be dead torrents sitting around on the tracker. :unsure:

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 28th, '05, 04:07

Kai Lien wrote:But I warn ya sometimes those torrents from those chinese sites don't last that long. So those links might die at any given time.
LOL... .This is such irony Kai Lien that I don't think you even realize how funny this is.

It is precisely because of what you wrote above that some (perhaps many) of the MODS don't want those Chinese subbed dramas hosted/listed in this database. Because it's not the users who clean up these dead torrents, but the MODS. So while everyone is clammering for more freedom to upload anything under the sun, it is actually the MODS who have to deal with cleaning up everything. In essense, they are the "mothers" doing housework, cleaning up after everyone.

Amazingly, I agree with so much of what Groink said in his latest post.

Something to ponder over... All these latest Japanese RAWS. They are very much copyrighted. These are not old, D- quality VHS copies of old drama. These are HDTV A quality release of shows that are currently being shown in Japan. I think we are just asking for trouble. I don't want to see d-addicts taken down by some lawsuit or DCMA take down notice. Having RAWS of brand new shows that are currently airing in Japan is just a bad idea.

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 28th, '05, 05:51

BT-Slut wrote:
Kai Lien wrote:But I warn ya sometimes those torrents from those chinese sites don't last that long. So those links might die at any given time.
It is precisely because of what you wrote above that some (perhaps many) of the MODS don't want those Chinese subbed dramas hosted/listed in this database. Because it's not the users who clean up these dead torrents, but the MODS. So while everyone is clammering for more freedom to upload anything under the sun, it is actually the MODS who have to deal with cleaning up everything. In essense, they are the "mothers" doing housework, cleaning up after everyone.
Exactly!!! And BT, that was worded so awesomely that I can't even tell ya :lol

Leaving them sit on the tracker dead especially with no stats is pointless. They have very little, if any, chance of being reseeded from D-addicts requests. Even so, whichever trackers they may be from might have auto-pruning (archiving torrents after a certain period of death), which we have no idea of. So even if someone can seed it, it may be off the tracker and not work anyway. It's better that users who want them be forced to go to the tracker page that it came from to see if it's still alive and seeded for themselves. If it sits here on D-addicts' tracker with no stats, we have absolutely NO CLUE and it takes up space and gives D-addicts users hope of a chance to get it, when there might not be one.

This is a big part of the recent topic of "torrent dumping". Users find them on other trackers and post them here never to look back at them again. When they die, do they kill them themselves? No. They sit here. We don't have auto-pruning anymore and if we do any cleaning out (mods), it must be done manually. Yep, that means we must sift through these torrents and decide one by one if they should be killed. And over time we have come to collect a lot of them, most of which are permanently dead. So is it better that we leave old ones sit here? Or is it better that the mods have to clean them out? Or shall we prevent this problem and not post them on the tracker to begin with and just have them in stickies where everyone can go to the original tracker to see the stats? Not to sound bitchy and lazy, but I prefer the third option.

Newbs and semi-newbs find those torrents posted here and want them seeded when they probably never will be again. I see it as kind of a nuisance and false hope to leave them here once they get old. Many torrents on Chinese trackers die within a week, but most die out within a month. So much new stuff pours in on those trackers that previous torrents become "old" quickly as people scurry for the new. Sound familiar? :lol
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Post by aNToK » Jan 28th, '05, 05:53

Hmm... I have to agree with pretty much all of Groink's points. I remember just 6 months or so ago, I used to download just about every torrent that was posted here. You knew what to expect, and there weren't a page full of new things to wade through every dayto find what you're looking for. As far as the copyright issues on new dramas, I love watching them and hope they continue, but since I'm not too familiar with how other countries are cracking down on them, I can't really offer an informed opinion about that. Just about everything is copyrighted somewhere, so eventually, we may see servers hosting the torrents get taken down, etc. Who knows? Probably just end up finding another way to share or something...
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Post by aNToK » Jan 28th, '05, 05:56

On what neon and BT wrote earlier, I agree 100%. In fact, in cases like Unstuck In Time, The Champion, etc. I usually ended up digging around to find the site the torrent was hosted at and d/l the torrents directly from there anyway. If I can't download it, I'd rather not see it anyway! Unjustified wishful thinking and all that...
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Post by guardianx » Jan 28th, '05, 17:42

well as long as they give a fair warning if it is raw or e sub..... then it is fine because one time i downloaded 4 gig of this torrent show only to find it is in chineseeee.
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Post by takkichi » Jan 28th, '05, 18:26

I also agree with groink, neon and BT. I voted no. Prior to the filters being added it was starting to become quite annoying to sift through the many torrents that seemed to have cluttered the page. I can only understand English so it would be pointless for me to download anything other than English subbed dramas. I do sometimes download raws only because I might like who's in it and want to really see it. I really don't want to complain because I appreciate everyone who's kind enough to share any of these dramas. Just thought I would put in my 2 cents worth.

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 28th, '05, 20:47

Kai Lien wrote:In that case, Well, like I said in the my first post in this topic, they can just be posted in that sticky. But I warn ya sometimes those torrents from those chinese sites don't last that long. So those links might die at any given time.
It seems that the solution with the sticky thread isn't understood by many users here. Let me explain it a little more.

The idea is to have a (sticky) thread somewhere (for example in the chinese entertainment forum) which lists links to trackers and torrents with chinese subbed dramas. Everybody who is interested in such torrents can post links. Since many of the torrents may die very soon users should remove the dead links themselves or at least post a reply that a certain link doesn't work anymore. This way we have a list of (mostly) working torrents with chinese subbed dramas which barely hogs resources.

No question that this link thread needs to be moderated in some way. Somebody should volunteer here to collect the links in the first post of this thread and to remove dead links as they are reported by others. All the old posts in the thread will be removed by the thread's moderator(s) once in a while to keep it short and readable.

I don't know if this concept will really work but I think it's worth a try. Any comments?
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Post by ar-a-mach » Jan 28th, '05, 20:57

NO

raw e subs and asian sub (korean chinese and japanese is ok)

other than that and it will become a dump, i'm so sure of that. if this ever happened i hope Mods will create a completely new section separate from our usual d-addict sections like the custom section we have now but no torrent appearing in the view all section or we'll be lost :goggle: :nuts: :argue:

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