Allow series with subtitles other than english on d-addict?

Discuss about anything here that doesn't fit in the other categories. Just don't spam.

Allow series other than Eng Sub and RAW to be upload to d-addicts?

Poll ended at Feb 4th, '05, 12:09

Yes
48
43%
No
63
57%
 
Total votes: 111

baboisjjang
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Post by baboisjjang » Jan 29th, '05, 04:57

Ruroshin wrote: For kdramas it is easy enough to get it off the edonkey/emule networks
Some people can't use edonkey or emule and this is probably the fastest and best way to get korean dramas. i personally watch the raws and would help subbing if i knew how. if you connect to a raw torrent there is actually a lot of people who are downloading it even after like the kbfd versions come out, i think that alone should merit their worth. also other dramas like half of "sorry i love you" started out as raws and then people were kind enough to help sub it.

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Post by groink » Jan 30th, '05, 00:40

MoerkJ wrote:The idea is to have a (sticky) thread somewhere (for example in the chinese entertainment forum) which lists links to trackers and torrents with chinese subbed dramas. Everybody who is interested in such torrents can post links. Since many of the torrents may die very soon users should remove the dead links themselves or at least post a reply that a certain link doesn't work anymore. This way we have a list of (mostly) working torrents with chinese subbed dramas which barely hogs resources.

I don't know if this concept will really work but I think it's worth a try. Any comments?
.
Heck yeah I have a comment...

Isn't the posting of torrent links on D-Addicts a total 180-degree spin on why the moderators do not want D-Addicts links posted at other web sites (ex: the ex-SuprNova)????

Some background why we decided on this... When places like SuprNova and other mega-torrent tracking sites first started hosting links to D-Addicts torrents, this caused problems in regards to the D-Addicts server being slammed with bogus URL requests that no longer existed. D-Addicts announce URLs and other URLs do change at times. It has happened several times in the past. For example, when Ruroshin switched from using a pure PHP tracker to a :7979 tracker, the announce URL changed. And, when Ruroshin moved the tracker from groink.no-ip.org to d-addicts.net. Also, some structural changes have been made in the past, causing the URLs cached at places like Google to no longer function. Still though, people continued to hit these URLs, clogging up the web logs, and account for a percentage of the bandwidth being eaten up. Small percentage, but still bandwidth is $$$$$$.

Whether or not D-Addicts URLs will change in the future is not my issue here. I covered that information for historical purposes. What is my issue here is that you're suggesting the posting of URLs to torrents for other trackers. In other words, you're suggesting that D-Addicts do EXACTLY what D-Addicts is against other sites doing. Sure, you're suggesting that people who post the URLs maintain them. However, the same thing could be done on SuprNova and other mega-portals. My web logs right now is living proof -- today I still receive requests on my server for D-Addicts torrents, MONTHS after we took them off. The concept of URL maintenance by the users does not work.

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Post by jholic » Jan 30th, '05, 01:44

i think as MoerkJ was stating, it was just some food for thought. i personally still like the idea of a sticky in each entertainment section. it would allow people to post links to other dl sites, and perhaps make announcements when certain series have been released. i guess the issue of posting the actual torrent link would be left up to the mods.

the creation of the sticky would at least give most folks an alternative.

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Post by MoerkJ » Jan 30th, '05, 09:01

The linking already happens by hosting torrents of other trackers... which we want to avoid as much as possible. I haven't said how the collected links will look like. Direct linking is indeed not a very good idea for the technical reasons (groink mentioned) and because they are probably a lot more difficult to manage.

Maybe it would be sufficient to have a list of popular torrent sites. Then somebody can post: "Hey, on tracker X you can download drama Y". Everything more detailed like direct links to torrent files would probably be too much. The maintained list, if it will ever exist, would only contain info about where you can find which dramas. The whole idea is to point the ppl who are interested in non-english subbed drama to the right places. However, before we make such decisions we should wait and see if there is any interest, and if non-english subbed dramas will be supported here in the future.
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Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 30th, '05, 14:12

MoerkJ wrote:The linking already happens by hosting torrents of other trackers... which we want to avoid as much as possible. I haven't said how the collected links will look like. Direct linking is indeed not a very good idea for the technical reasons (groink mentioned) and because they are probably a lot more difficult to manage.

Maybe it would be sufficient to have a list of popular torrent sites. Then somebody can post: "Hey, on tracker X you can download drama Y". Everything more detailed like direct links to torrent files would probably be too much. The maintained list, if it will ever exist, would only contain info about where you can find which dramas. The whole idea is to point the ppl who are interested in non-english subbed drama to the right places. However, before we make such decisions we should wait and see if there is any interest, and if non-english subbed dramas will be supported here in the future.
.
I think MoerkJ expressed what I am thinking: Reference to where they are, but not putting them on D-a tracker. If the sticky thing were to happen, we would hope to collect 1-3+ volunteers that frequently browse Chinese trackers for this kinda stuff and would want to maintain it. I think none of the mods know Chinese enough to do the maintenance of such a sticky, but I'm not sure.

For example, in the first post of the sticky, have links to the major Chinese trackers, more of which can be added later. Users can post "Hey, on A, Lovers on the Sand has been posted in RMVB batch", and if possible, post the title in Chinese to make members able to search the name, but they don't have to (I wouldn't expect that much). Linking the actual torrent isn't necessary and not exactly preferred from a mod standpoint.

I think I said before that since they die so quickly, it's better to have members be forced to go to the original tracker itself to check the stats. If it's dead then they need not bother. But if it sits on D-a, nobody knows if it's dead or not and they have hope that it might be, IMO. Of course we don't know exact details of how this would be implemented nor if there will even be a need for it to happen. If we have volunteers to maintain, it wouldn't be 100% but I think it would still be better than having them sit on D-a tracker with ??? as stats along with a ton of the other working stuff we have.
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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 30th, '05, 18:37

groink wrote:
MoerkJ wrote:The idea is to have a (sticky) thread somewhere (for example in the chinese entertainment forum) which lists links to trackers and torrents with chinese subbed dramas. Everybody who is interested in such torrents can post links. Since many of the torrents may die very soon users should remove the dead links themselves or at least post a reply that a certain link doesn't work anymore. This way we have a list of (mostly) working torrents with chinese subbed dramas which barely hogs resources.

I don't know if this concept will really work but I think it's worth a try. Any comments?
.
Heck yeah I have a comment...

Isn't the posting of torrent links on D-Addicts a total 180-degree spin on why the moderators do not want D-Addicts links posted at other web sites (ex: the ex-SuprNova)????

Some background why we decided on this... When places like SuprNova and other mega-torrent tracking sites first started hosting links to D-Addicts torrents, this caused problems in regards to the D-Addicts server being slammed with bogus URL requests that no longer existed. D-Addicts announce URLs and other URLs do change at times. It has happened several times in the past. For example, when Ruroshin switched from using a pure PHP tracker to a :7979 tracker, the announce URL changed. And, when Ruroshin moved the tracker from groink.no-ip.org to d-addicts.net. Also, some structural changes have been made in the past, causing the URLs cached at places like Google to no longer function. Still though, people continued to hit these URLs, clogging up the web logs, and account for a percentage of the bandwidth being eaten up. Small percentage, but still bandwidth is $$$$$$.

Whether or not D-Addicts URLs will change in the future is not my issue here. I covered that information for historical purposes. What is my issue here is that you're suggesting the posting of URLs to torrents for other trackers. In other words, you're suggesting that D-Addicts do EXACTLY what D-Addicts is against other sites doing. Sure, you're suggesting that people who post the URLs maintain them. However, the same thing could be done on SuprNova and other mega-portals. My web logs right now is living proof -- today I still receive requests on my server for D-Addicts torrents, MONTHS after we took them off. The concept of URL maintenance by the users does not work.

--- groink
This is a strange argument Groink. Coming from more novice users of the net, I would understand such a comment, but it surprises me coming from you. You're arguing against the use of hyperlinking essentially. What makes the net great is the ability to hyperlink--and thus interconnect--everything. I think it's rediculous to post something about something and not be able to direclty link to exactly what you're referring to.

URLs are a wonderful thing and I think they should always be used to directly source/link what one is referring to.

I can understand and appreciate your technical issue, but that is basically a "cost of doing business" if you will. Don't host websites if you don't want people linking to your site.

Hmm. after re-reading your post, perhaps this is not your argument after all. It may be that your argument is that d-addicts would be taking a hypocritical stance if they implemented such a system of hyperlinking to other BT links. But how is that different from listing the same links via the torrent database here? I don't see the difference.

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Post by RuMxZ » Jan 31st, '05, 00:32

aNToK wrote:Hmm... I have to agree with pretty much all of Groink's points. I remember just 6 months or so ago, I used to download just about every torrent that was posted here. You knew what to expect, and there weren't a page full of new things to wade through every dayto find what you're looking for. As far as the copyright issues on new dramas, I love watching them and hope they continue, but since I'm not too familiar with how other countries are cracking down on them, I can't really offer an informed opinion about that. Just about everything is copyrighted somewhere, so eventually, we may see servers hosting the torrents get taken down, etc. Who knows? Probably just end up finding another way to share or something...
Voted No. Also totally agree with Groink.
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Post by Camui » Jan 31st, '05, 06:10

I vote for Raws and English subs only.....
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Post by groink » Feb 1st, '05, 02:18

Some answers to questions posed here since my last posting.

First, I'm not opposed to linking by any means. Linking, as it is suggested, is the foundation of the web.

HOWEVER, when the World Wide Web was first invented, netiquette suggests that though it is not a requirement that you ask permission of the webmaster to link to his site BEFORE you create the link, it is merely appropriate that you do so. A simple e-mail to the webmaster telling him you're linking to his site is an appropriate thing to do. However, it's also appropriate to follow the webmaster's wishes to remove the links if he tells you to do so. I'm not making these rules up -- they're covered in hundreds of documents on-line, however the following is the mother site of netiquitte:

http://www.fau.edu/netiquette/net/web.html

Adapting these rules to our situation... Ruroshin previously asked the various tracker sites if we can add URL links directly to their torrents, as suggested by netiquitte's rules. JEM and JTV have requested that they do not want Ruroshin to do so. Right now he's obeying the wishes of the webmasters of those sites. According to netiquitte, Ruroshin could also be a total dick about it and link to their torrents anyway. However, the events that follow could be bad, including the shutdown of those trackers by the webmasters themselves as a consequence of Ruroshin ignoring their wishes.

This is why the robots.txt file was invented. "Good" bots would obey the wishes of the webmasters, in accordance with the configuration settings in robots.txt. This is a way ot automating the rules of netiquitte. If you do not have a robots.txt, by default you're allowing other web sites and bots to link to your web site.

Now, my argument here is that D-Addicts has publicly announced several times that they do not appreciate people adding their torrent links to mega-trackers like SuprNova. Again, this is not a rule I made up myself -- it was a decision amongst the moderators. So if people here do not like this policy, it should be brought to the moderators' attention.

Going back to netiquitte, the appropriate thing to do is to inform these 3rd-party trackers that there will be linking from D-Addicts to their web site, and possibly their torrents. If they write back saying not to do so, the appropriate thing to do is to follow their wishes by removing those links from D-Addicts. If, however, they do not write back, then it is assumed that it's okay to link to their sites, and that's the end of it.

So in summary, I'm totally for linking. That's what the web is all about! However, I'm also in favor of webmasters' rights to disallow linking to their sites as long as they either e-mail saying not to link, or include a robots.txt file on the root of their web sites. The existence of the robots.txt policy is evidence that the majority of the web community also agree with me on this. More information on the purpose and use of robots.txt can be found here:

http://www.robotstxt.org/

--- groink

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Post by Jap_Man » Feb 1st, '05, 22:28

i dont mind having subtitles for japanese drama
cause i understand them :P
i see there are many chinese subtitled drama but no one dl them
some drama are only in chinese subtitles and sinch no one dl them i can't dl them!!! i want to c them :cry:

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Post by crystalise » Feb 3rd, '05, 10:10

I think English Subs would be the best option for all d-addicts users because it is an international language.

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Feb 3rd, '05, 10:10

Only a little over 100 people voted so far? :blink With almost 14,000 members and probably even more leechers, maybe a lot of people are indifferent on this? :lol Come on people, get to voting! :P
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Post by Carn » Feb 3rd, '05, 10:10

Yeah, more people voted for the current SotW! :lol

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Post by Camui » Feb 3rd, '05, 10:10

neonkinpatsu wrote:Only a little over 100 people voted so far? :blink With almost 14,000 members and probably even more leechers, maybe a lot of people are indifferent on this? :lol Come on people, get to voting! :P
I think the same thing about the SOTW and SOTM. It's just pitiful how few ppl actually participate.
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Post by neonkinpatsu » Feb 16th, '05, 20:34

Camui wrote:
neonkinpatsu wrote:Only a little over 100 people voted so far? :blink With almost 14,000 members and probably even more leechers, maybe a lot of people are indifferent on this? :lol Come on people, get to voting! :P
I think the same thing about the SOTW and SOTM. It's just pitiful how few ppl actually participate.
Yeah, true, kinda sad......this poll could have much more permanent impact than a series for a week or month ^^;; I guess we'll see how it pans out b/c only 111 people have voted so far. :blink
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Post by Phinn » Feb 16th, '05, 20:59

I'd like to vote, but I'm not sure how to - there seems to be a lack of buttons for me to push.

In lieu of that, I'm going say that dramas that do not feature English subs shouldn't be excluded from D-Addicts. I think that D-Addicts is here to serve Asian dramas to people outside their domestic market, not just English speaking countries. Even people from within Asia use D-Addicts, Chinese speakers downloading Japanese and Korean dramas for instance. Excluding non-English speakers also seems a little hypocritical given that this is a site for fans of foreign cultures.

Raws are an essential start for fansubbers to produce an subtitled version and they are also useful for people who are learning the language. Also I'd like to see more fansubbers using mkv to produce fansubs with multiple translations, e.g. English, Chinese, French, Italian, etc.. so I'm in favour of keeping D-Addicts multilingual.

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Post by sagurite » Feb 16th, '05, 21:02

I also agree with englisch subs only and raws.
What's the use of having subs in "exotic" languages like finnish - then only a few people are interested in dl'ing - it means it will become more difficult to find seeds. :-(
d-addicts works because here many people are interested in the same files.
And you can't use subs in congonese or whatever instead of raws - I sometimes make German soft subs from the raws for my friends who don't speak Japanese. But in case there already are subs, it doesn't look very nice...
So, just don't change and keep going on with the Raws and english subs- D-addicts is the best there is! Yay! :D

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Post by TIticamara » Feb 17th, '05, 02:53

So what;s the final decision on this matter? Please tell us.

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Post by kebabhouse » Feb 17th, '05, 03:09

vote for english subs only...easy and faster to download and upload

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Feb 17th, '05, 14:49

Apparently the poll was timed, I didn't know, so voting has ended ^^; But anyway, we'll have news for you guys soon :-)
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Post by kimchichan » Feb 21st, '05, 07:52

I agree with english sub and raws.

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Post by Ruroshin » Feb 21st, '05, 09:22

Its been decided to allow dramas other than eng sub and raws.

The main issue for this was one of organisation of torrents in the torrent page and that has been solved by the tabbed listing and user preferences so the only other issue was the extra load these torrents would put on the system. 43% wanted it though so thats enough to convince me to keep them until such a time that I think its no longer viable to include them (so far that should be a long way off), I will however add a new rule:

After 14 days from time of upload, any non eng sub torrents that comes from other trackers will be deleted if the system can't scrape the external tracker or there is no seeding on it.

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Post by neuhikari » May 4th, '08, 10:21

it woould be great like this the dramas can spread to other areas cause not everybody can speak english. so I'm with it. :wub:

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Post by groink » May 4th, '08, 10:36

neuhikari wrote:it woould be great like this the dramas can spread to other areas cause not everybody can speak english. so I'm with it. :wub:
Note the date of the post - over three years ago. Yes, D-Addicts allows dramas subbed in languages other than English.

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