SOPA/PIPA/ACTA

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Orion1986
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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 04:10

Awesome. Show goes on!
Although shows are entertaining and this dire situation is far from it... :alcoholic:

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Post by amrayu » Jan 27th, '12, 04:19

Orion1986 wrote:Well, it would be best to erase all that is irrelevant to the thread. My last few posts were also irrelevant and we don't want people seeing a monologue of mine when they come to read about this. XD

It was not a pleasant happening and it's taking up an entire page. From my side, you have my ok to erase all of the "fighting posts" of mine. If Tengu gives the ok, you can go ahead.

I can go back and add a "Deleted by Author" to all my irrelevant posts, if it will make your job easier.

Edit: Completely irrelevant, but your signature image/link is broken. XD
It's okay, I just went back and deleted all of it I think. If there's others, you can mark them if you wish.

Edit: Yes, I know I have a broken image... been that way for ages! I rarely log in to D-A. And broken image is the least of my worries. :P
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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 04:21

And now you all have additional worries, with everything that is happening. DA is a wonderful place so let's hope and fight for the freedom of such places all over the internet.

One step at a time. ^^ Thanks for cleaning up the thread and do stop by more often, when you have time. We're quite a bunch here. :P

A relatively fresh article, btw.

ACTA: prosecution for communication?


And I am posting this one for the title alone. XD Although it was an interesting read.

Bill Killed: SOPA death celebrated as Congress recalls anti-piracy acts

I would post a link to the "Bang Bang" song from the movie on Youtube, but I'd be infringing. :roll

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 05:01

@amrayu
Thank you much... also the nodame picture is pure gold... really... I loled
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Note that SOPA was "recalled" TEMPORARILY but is expected to be changed and voted on later. Presumably to give the anti-SOPA climate some time to die down a bit, which movements (as-a-whole) naturally have a tendency to do.
Last edited by TenguKing on Jan 27th, '12, 05:24, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 05:12

True. We're not out of the woods yet. But it's also difficult to take something back and hide it once it's out. Even if they delay it for months and years, as long as enough uproar is caused, we can hope people will remember and still fight against it.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 05:15

A true victory would have been to see SOPA have gone up for general vote (in congress) and then have been VOTED DOWN by a majority (or "defeated"). Roughly similar to getting a not-guilty verdict and then feeling safe due to double-jeopardy.

As it stands this is now simply a fight for another day, in which it is hoped that public opinion FOR SOPA will be better.

@Orion
Well, personally I really wish it had been voted down... that might even have served as a message to the FBI to relax their attack campaign. This megaupload thing is all within the parameters of already EXISTING law! As it stands, in the present we are sitting pretty, but as for the long term we are still in limbo.

Its a victory, but not that decisive victory we might have hoped for.

Also, I think I'm right in saying theres no way for us (common man) to do much against ACTA? Seems like most of it is already signed and without most of our knowledge, or input for that matter. SOPA is/was simply the U.S. way of conducting ACTA?

So what you EU peeps should be looking out for is the EU version of SOPA whatever that might be called...

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 05:35

Kader Arif, EU rapporteur for ACTA, subsequently resigned from his position on January 26, 2012 saying "I want to send a strong signal and alert the public opinion about this unacceptable situation. I will not take part in this masquerade."

Make of this what you will.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 06:01

We may not be powerful or educated or informed enough about this to effect radical and actual change, but by our sheer buzz, topics, conversations and numbers, we add to the mass that supports this.
For a simple citizen, that is enough. We are not the heroes here. We are the ones who will be behind the heroes who will in turn keep fighting this with our support and participation by keeping the topic alive.

Personally, I will keep tweeting, blogging, talking about it. But we all have lives we need to live and no matter how much we want to help, some things are out of our hands. We do what we can, live on and hope.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 06:31

omg I lawled... censorship defeats the entire purpose of twitter... seriously...

Now during this lull would be the time to make the financial argument to the corporations, if this can successfully be done.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 07:00

Ok, the dead bird got me. I laughed my socks off. XD

But the topic is scary indeed. Censoring tweets. That is just... I guess that means tweets are working though. That is good. But shame on Twitter if they do this.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 07:36

The more I read about him the sadder I am about Kader Arif resigning in protest... it definitely hurts us... his quote below:

I want to denounce in the strongest possible manner the entire process that led to the signature of this agreement: no inclusion of civil society organisations, a lack of transparency from the start of the negotiations, repeated postponing of the signature of the text without an explanation being ever given, exclusion of the EU Parliament's demands that were expressed on several occasions in our assembly.

As rapporteur of this text, I have faced never-before-seen manoeuvres from the right wing of this Parliament to impose a rushed calendar before public opinion could be alerted, thus depriving the Parliament of its right to expression and of the tools at its disposal to convey citizens' legitimate demands.

Everyone knows the ACTA agreement is problematic, whether it is its impact on civil liberties, the way it makes Internet access providers liable, its consequences on generic drugs manufacturing, or how little protection it gives to our geographical indications.

This agreement might have major consequences on citizens' lives, and still, everything is being done to prevent the European Parliament from having its say in this matter. That is why today, as I release this report for which I was in charge, I want to send a strong signal and alert the public opinion about this unacceptable situation. I will not take part in this masquerade.

I have renewed respect for French people. He sounds like he needs a hug...

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 27th, '12, 07:53

TenguKing wrote:Everyone knows the ACTA agreement is problematic, whether it is its impact on civil liberties, the way it makes Internet access providers liable, its consequences on generic drugs manufacturing, or how little protection it gives to our geographical indications.
What does he mean with "consequences on generic drugs manufacturing"?

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 27th, '12, 08:23

Generic drugs? OK, let's explain. There are very expensive drugs manufactured by a certain company. And there are so called cheaper replacements, meaning they have exactly the same main ingredients, but are cheaper (because of less known companies make them, or local ones).
They will be forbidden to sell. There will be no replacement drugs, people will be forced to buy official, expensive one.
This is why ACTA is scary.

Edit: damn I'm late, but people, once again - no political wars here, no nazi, nationalistic views in this thread. I will persecute everyone.

@Tyrea: thanks, I'll look it up.
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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 10:19

http://brajeshwar.com/2011/the-super-se ... ng-bodies/

Generic Medicine Debate

Signatory nations of ACTA in the EU, in response to massive out-roar about denying access to life-saving generic medicines, have explicitly expressed in public statements that ACTA will not interfere with access to generic medications. The generic medicine market, according to the EU, accounts for about 10% of the world medicine market, with the majority of them heading to the world’s poorest countries where patented medicine is out of reach for most.

The minds at the Washington College of Law however have read and interpreted the agreement (and it takes a legal mind to interpret the legalese that ACTA was written in) have found nothing in the written agreement that would verify those public statements.

According to the WCL in D.C., ACTA would empower signatory countries to seize generic medicines in transit countries despite them not infringing on the laws of that country. ACTA could also implicate “non-infringing active pharmaceutical ingredient suppliers whose materials may be used downstream in infringing products without their knowledge”.

The WCL notes that ACTA violates democratically enacted international law from pre-determined internationally governing institutions. They specifically site “the WTO Doha Declaration on TRIPS and Public Health and World Health Assembly Resolution 61.21 by limiting the ability of countries to use the TRIPS flexibilities ‘to the full’ to promote access to medicines.” ACTA, according to the WCL also violates the WTO’s TRIP agreement in articles: 1, 7, 8, 40, 41.1, 41.2, 41.5, 44.2, 46, 47, 48.1, 48.2, 50.3, 52, 53.1, 54, 55, 56, and 58.

By creating this new, and redundant, framework ACTA is undermining and contradicting the roles of internationally-agreed-upon WIPO and the WTO.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 27th, '12, 10:37

Thank's for the explanation. So in other words, if you are a citizen of a poorer countrie and you earn not enough money to buy the expensive medicine and you can't either buy cheaper ones because it will be no longer possible (thanks ACTA)... than you will be remain sick or even die. Or in other words: ACTA is the death sentence for a lot of people...... WHAT THE §$/%&"%%&$ !!!!!!!!!!!!

But is the quality of the cheaper ones not as high as the "original" drugs? I mean that would be an improvement of the health care, BUT the original drugs shouldn't be too expensive for the poorer countries. I don't know the background of drug prices in richer and poorer countries, but it COULD be a channge to improve the health care IF the original drugs are cheap enough for poor people.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 27th, '12, 11:32

I can speak from my own experience - I had the replacement antibiotics last summer, and it revived me in a week. The same effect as the prescribed (but unavailable at that moment) one.
If the main ingredience is the same, I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Of course, big pharmaceutical companies don't want them.

Plus:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2 ... l-suicide/
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Post by Conner MacDermott » Jan 27th, '12, 12:02

Sorvaseven wrote:I don't know the background of drug prices in richer and poorer countries, but it COULD be a channge to improve the health care IF the original drugs are cheap enough for poor people.
Most "original" drugs are produced by the richer countries like USA and UK. Then they export them to the poorer countries. Only thing is that when they export their drugs, they didn't adjust the new prices to factor in the local currency.

So if a drug is sold in the USA at $10. Come Indonesia, it's not 10 rupiahs but 89,285.71 rupiahs plus whatever import and shipping charges incurred. The locals would have to rely heavily on government subsidies if they want to use these drugs. That's why they rather use the cheaper local variants even though the quality may be a little poorer. At least, it's still medicine.

Unless the drug companies are willing to lower their selling prices to match that of the local economies, the end result is that a lot of people would just choose to go without treatment than bankrupting their families with a mountain of debt.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 13:34

Like with a lot of goods in this world, you pay for the brand, not the actual quality of the product. My mother had to change her blood pressure medicine and she opted for the cheaper ones. They told her, from the pharmacy, that it's exactly the same.
In France (and elsewhere, I'm sure), you can buy a tiny bottle of water which costs 70 euros. 70 euros for a few sips. Because it's "luxury" water and the bottle has Swarovski crystal on it. Imagine if this water were made mandatory for anyone thirsty. XD

And at least that is understandable. The bottle has actual value. With drugs, it's even more insane. The only thing you pay for is the name. The company. Nothing tangible costs more or or more effective.

By the way, this petition hit 500,000+ signatures.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 27th, '12, 15:02

Found an interesting theory on the techcrunch website about an additional reason why Megaupload was targeted:

Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

@ Ethlenn, Orion1986 and Conner MacDermott: Well, i see, ACTA will cause more disadvantages than advantages for the drug and medical supply :-( . (Of course not for the moneybag of the CEOs).

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 15:16

Oh, I see. So, Megabox would let artists get known, pay them good money for the downloads and basically shatter the grip huge companies have on consumers and artists alike, using their contribution to become rich themselves, without paying the ones who deserve the money.

Of course they'd hate Kim Dotcom and the whole company then. Threatened their monopoly with something that is not just piracy, but actually makes money for the people who deserve it and also helps those who cannot (literally) buy a break and get some recognition for not being sellouts.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 27th, '12, 15:28

Orion1986 wrote:Oh, I see. So, Megabox would let artists get known, pay them good money for the downloads and basically shatter the grip huge companies have on consumers and artists alike, using their contribution to become rich themselves, without paying the ones who deserve the money.
Exactly, it's all about the money. Rivals will be liquidated :lol .

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 27th, '12, 15:38

That is essentially what these regulations do. Give full power to big companies to kill competition, innovation and be able to do all that without having to get permission from or show proof to any authority or government.

It gives them a free pass to being their own judge and jury and enforcing those decisions on anyone they want, without anyone holding them liable for it or even checking to make sure that rights are really being infringed.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 27th, '12, 16:07

http://www.wcl.american.edu/pijip/go/bl ... ma-on-acta

It looks like an open forum, so you should be able to read posts at the forum I found the above link at http://forums.delphiforums.com/perlaw/messages . He has a whole slew of posts in the Computers/Technology/IP Law section.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 27th, '12, 16:59

Here is the "News of the Day". I really laughed hard while reading it ^___^

German Hackers Building An Alternative Internet

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 22:56

Well I guess you twitter people really did accomplish something... apparently you've got twitter scared. If twitter wants us to shut up... then it just admits that the tweets were having an effect.

Also... wait for it... FILESERVE IS BACK!!... who knows for how long... but lets hope its for good.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 27th, '12, 22:57


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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 23:05

Yes, yes and yes. AND theres money to be made there as well (big money like Youtube) so there is a financial incentive for working on such an idea as well.
Last edited by TenguKing on Jan 27th, '12, 23:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 27th, '12, 23:09

I thought the comments on the post were almost as interesting as the post itself.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 27th, '12, 23:09

Stop saying that though... it didn't FAIL... yet... it has been shuffled under the table to wait for us to go back to sleep before being brought up again...

Sleep with one-eye open and we're good... fully go to sleep and we just might face a crisis again. But why not just as well, stay awake and active?

Though our situation is a bit different due to the subtitling aspect, how much would you pay for an episode of a Taiga J-,C-, or K-drama? I'd be willing to say a dollar an episode would be fair for a DVD quality-res show maybe 2 bucks for a HD-720+ res show?

...also nice shameless plug there for that torrent client... no we're fine thanks...

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 00:32

Finally finished the damn thing. It was written already 2-3 days ago, but I had no energy or time to "pretty it up".

Use the Tech! - Why Entertainment "Suffers" from Piracy

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 03:01

See? why did you have to take such an angry tone with me when you clearly are perfectly capable of writing and arguing from an objective viewpoint about the issues. Threats are not effective, but coherent well thought out argument like that IS effective.

Now the question is whether even if you show that to someone... will they listen?

This now gets back to what I was talking about earlier... The reason that the state of affairs between Japan/South Korea with the U.S. is extremely relevant is that in terms of what we care about (Asian cinema) we are hoping for the Japanese/South Korean businesses to break off from the RIAA and MPAA autocracy and go for this new business model.

The question is whether or not they've got the guts to finally take a stand against the U.S. position or not... It'll be a hump to overcome, but lets hope they might for the won involved... If they can't then that means we'll have to address the issue from the U.S. side first and then after its over here, the Asian cinema market will probably fall in line?

Also, regarding Korean cinema... have you been to Korea? I have never really been a big fan of Korean drama, and I wish I had been so that I could tell you this for certain, but Korea was in my experience almost as bad a place for illegal DVD distribution as China (comparing Seoul to Beijing).

So why the hell is that DVD set so damn expensive? I'm almost sure that in Korea they could NEVER sell it at anywhere near 90 U.S.D.... NO WAY... at least not to Koreans... can anyone from Korea help confirm?

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Post by moadeep » Jan 28th, '12, 03:05

I don't know about Korea, but I have seen some *pretty* expensive tv box sets in the US. Usually it's the newest season of a big name series. I've seen one priced at $80

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 03:11

It depends on the DVD, channel, response, probably. I mean, some series have DVD sets which aren't as badly priced. Secret Garden has many versions, some of them affordable-ish.

But some are priced very high indeed. And when older series come into play, some of those cost a hell of a lot of money to buy. Not to mention huge series with many episodes.

And even if you do have a lot of money to pay, you'd still need an NTSC television (as far as I know) and a region free computer drive or player, which are crap. I have the latter. I know. XD

As for why they don't take a stand, well, unwillingness and ignorance can be part of it. Japan isn't very subs friendly on DVDs or foreign friendly, save for blockbusters.
Korea is friendlier, but they are also greedy and suck up to the US a bit too much. It has to do with politics and the chaebol as well. Movies are better. 15 euros or so.

Why? Well, again, the drama industry is money hungry and has an audience of kyaagirls willing to pay anything to get them DVDs of a popular show. Along with merchandise.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 03:31

You just added another thing that should be in your post... MERCHANDISING... they will never lose anything in terms of merchandising... who knows how much they'll actually GAIN?

This could be an entirely new heading or topic even in your blog... Did not even occur to me until you brought up the raw consumer power of Kyaagirls...

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Post by nuts » Jan 28th, '12, 04:33

I really hope ACTA would follow SOPA's death..

the DVDs prices are so damn high in my country
moreover, almost all of korean/japanese DVDs (whether its music or dramas/movies) are not available here
the only way we can have the original version of them is to buy them online which is sooooo expensive

the first time (and maybe the last time) I bought original DVD online was when I bought Japanese music DVD, just 1 DVD with a bonus of 1 CD, for around 4500 yen (the cheapest I could find)
and when it's converted to my country's currency (plus shipping and so on), it's even more expensive than the total money I have to pay for my room's rent/month

so, how can I even able to afford those dramas/music I'd die to watch/listen when the prices are so high?
should I just stay un-entertained and bored for the whole of my life? :-(
I'm sure I'm not the only one

why don't those big companies be a little nicer for us poor ones (well at least not a rich-one) by putting up a cheaper price for their products, or at least, just don't bother the net please

I know they lose lots of money but I don't think that this piracy would make them poor
there are still lots of people who buy the original..

I'm sorry for my grumbles, couldn't hold it any longer and dunno where to say (type) this
just wanna share my thoughts, ignore me, I'm just a bit depressed thinking of the future if things keep goin' on like this.. and please pardon my english :glare:

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 04:58

@nuts

by all means speak your mind...but do tell us what country your referring to when you say "my country"... Indonesia?

Also, another interesting thing about actual Koreans was how they learn to speak English.

My buddy at the time (long since lost touch) was learning to speak English by watching specially marketed old episodes of "Friends" that would pause now and again to explain some sort of language thing in Korean (Hangul) before continuing on with the episode. That was really cool and I always thought that it was too bad no such things existed in English to learn Asian languages (would make learning Chinese a lot easier and enjoyable for me...).

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Post by nuts » Jan 28th, '12, 05:25

ah yes, sorry.. I'm from Indonesia..
how do you know that?

me too, I learn both english and japanese at the same time by watching Japanese doramas

my friend said that one of the torrent's web has closed, is it true?

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Post by curlywurly » Jan 28th, '12, 07:02

nuts wrote: should I just stay un-entertained and bored for the whole of my life? :-(
Wow, really?? No other interests?

It's a big world out there, lots to learn, lots to see, lots to do.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 07:57

idk what life is like in Indonesia... I'm not certain but I'd guess you have to wear a veil as a woman there?

Maybe there really is less to do for a woman in Indonesia... you can't be sure.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 28th, '12, 08:14

/blush I am kind of ignorant about Indonesia. For some reason I thought it was a hindu country.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 28th, '12, 08:25

This is what I got:
Dear Google user,

We're getting rid of over 60 different privacy policies across Google and replacing them with one that's a lot shorter and easier to read. Our new policy covers multiple products and features, reflecting our desire to create one beautifully simple and intuitive experience across Google.

We believe this stuff matters, so please take a few minutes to read our updated Privacy Policy and Terms of Service at http://www.google.com/policies. These changes will take effect on March 1, 2012.
Fragment from that one:
Tailored for you
If you’re signed into Google, we can do things like suggest search queries – or tailor your search results – based on the interests you’ve expressed in Google+, Gmail, and YouTube. We’ll better understand which version of Pink or Jaguar you’re searching for and get you those results faster.
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 28th, '12, 09:12

nuts wrote:the first time (and maybe the last time) I bought original DVD online was when I bought Japanese music DVD, just 1 DVD with a bonus of 1 CD, for around 4500 yen (the cheapest I could find)
Can someone explain me why DVDs and sometimes CD's are so damn expensive in Japan? I found some second hand shops with DVDs, but they are also very expensive. I mean, who are buying these expensive stuff??? Maybe some Japanese buy it, but couldn't the Corp. sell even more when the price is cheaper?
nuts wrote:my friend said that one of the torrent's web has closed, is it true?
Really? Didn't noticed anything...
Ethlenn wrote:Tailored for you
If you’re signed into Google, we can do things like suggest search queries – or tailor your search results – based on the interests you’ve expressed in Google+, Gmail, and YouTube. We’ll better understand which version of Pink or Jaguar you’re searching for and get you those results faster.
Isn't their Motto "Don't be evil"? So i think everything is fine.... no....wait.... Didn't the CEO said "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." .... Yeah, that's why i don't use any of the google stuff as good as possible :P .Moreover i don't want that a machine "understand me better". That sounds damn creepy :blink

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 09:30

Lets not forget about Microsoft's new "Kinect" device...
https://forums.playfire.com/general-dis ... read/87708

Sections 9 and 12 of the updated terms of service are particularly scary :

If you accept the agreement, you “expressly authorize and consent to us accessing or disclosing information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process; (b) protect the rights or property of Microsoft, our partners, or our customers, including the enforcement of our agreements or policies governing your use of the Service; or (c) act on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers, or the public.”

Also scary? they reserve the right to monitor your voice and chat sessions using their new camera system. Personal privacy? Not so personal, not so private.

“You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service.” They obviously won’t – and can’t – monitor every single system at the same time, but they say that they have the right to do so “to the maximum extent permitted by law.”

Microsoft also “reserves the right at all times to disclose any information as necessary to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request, or to edit, refuse to post or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in Microsoft’s sole discretion.” Break the law in front of your Kinect system? You could be up against the law.

Thinking of disabling or bypassing any of these monitoring systems? Well, that’s illegal. Of course,the TOS has always included sections that one might deem questionable if they favoured privacy – but with the inclusion of camera, it’s edging ever closer to an Orwellian level of surveillance. It seems Big Brother really is watching you.


... YOU TOO can learn to LOVE BIG BROTHER :salut:

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Post by Conner MacDermott » Jan 28th, '12, 09:46

nuts wrote:the first time (and maybe the last time) I bought original DVD online was when I bought Japanese music DVD, just 1 DVD with a bonus of 1 CD, for around 4500 yen (the cheapest I could find)
True. True. I bought one original japanese drama DVD on impulse online and the total bill costs me more than two months of my salary. T_T I would be living on grass and dew if I'd to pay like that for every drama I watch.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 28th, '12, 09:48

I'm not surprised TenguKing. And the situation will become worse, i bet! That's the reason i don't use any kind of social media and even my mobile phone is mostly off. It's already enough for me to use e-mail (of course not gmail^^) and telephone to communicate and i'm pretty fine with that :-) . And before i forget it: Do you believe that dreams come true? Then i have a perfect dream for you: Cloud services and privacy! It's only the question which dream will come true :lol

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 09:51

Try LIVING in Japan for a year... you cannot even imagine... I had thought my salary was high, it sounded high... turns out... it wasn't... rent alone is ridiculous. Theres a reason why they issue coins for one dollar and five dollar amounts... and only paper notes for 10 dollars and above. You go thru ones and fives like WATER...

After you live in Tokyo... you go to Korea and China and you can laugh at the bills for the bar or restaurant when they arrive...

The only stupid thing for me is that both in China and Korea the ppl there think I'm one of them... apparently my appearance is least like the type of Asian I actually am...

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 10:05

<<REMOVED>>
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 28th, '12, 10:20

TenguKing wrote:As far as dreams... my only dream is to be a very good peaceful citizen. My hobbies are mainly "doing exactly as I'm told" and never saying anything bad to anyone.

Are you listening Google? I'm just a good boy who uses the internet only for reasons that promote Google. Do you think you might be ok with leaving my house now? Please?
I see, it has already reached the point where you beg google to leave your house and don't kick it outside. Yes, you are a indeed a damn good exemplar of a modern and very good peaceful citizen :cheers: I want to become exactly as you and i want to work hard for it (I hope you are satisfied google :notworthy: ).

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 28th, '12, 10:39

Yes... goodbye my friends... they got me through my Wii... it was bound to happen sooner or later... I just hope that you don't make the same mistakes I have... and decide to be good law abiding non-protesting citizens from now on...

This will be my last post, since my internet, I have been told, will now be cut off for good...

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 28th, '12, 11:01

Here is one of my favourite text about privacy and internet from the facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, disposer of meanwhile nearly 1 Billion people:

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask.
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SSN
Friend: What? How’d you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don’t know why.
Zuck: They “trust me”
Zuck: Dumb fucks.

Would you donate such a person your holiday pictures, written messages, spoken messages and lot of more intimate information that you wouldn't even tell your neighbour? In alliance with ACTA, communication will be only possible via censored media corp. which have a huge moneybag. Communication will be controlled, directed and managed by big corporations, controlled by government. Cheers!

I think a cyber police would and could be a good thing for most of the Internet users, but only bounded on REAL crimes such as murder, raper, kids pornography, bribery, threat to life or physical condition to safeguard the mass. I'm against an internet which is like a modern wild west, but when monetary interests of big companies undermine and capitalize these aspects in addition with censorship in the interests of these companies and heavily corrupted staates, it self is a crime against the people!

Furthermore i think spreading japanese or korean dramas is not a crime at all, because the fandom do it voluntary and not for money. Also people outside of Japan can't buy the media with english subs, so there it has nearly no effect on their business. It's more a great benefit for the hole japanese and korean business, because more people would travel to japan or korean, buy other asian stuff and so on. The international understanding is also a big advantage against racism and prejudices to create a more peaceful world.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 13:07

TenguKing wrote:This could be an entirely new heading or topic even in your blog... Did not even occur to me until you brought up the raw consumer power of Kyaagirls...
Indeed, they get sh*tloads of money from that. I mentioned it in my previous article on the subject. I think it's pretty clear and known so I didn't think of making a dedicated post. I might.

nuts, I really feel you. That is the harsh reality for a lot of people. And curlywurly, people are different. No one should be forced to change hobbies because those don't fit what society accepts as "successful ones".
People who spend a lot of time online are seen as useless idiots because they don't seem like the do something. They just sit in front of a screen. But the things you can do and learn online are valuable. Absolutely so.

I prefer to spend my money on internet and an occasional game. I prefer watching dramas, movies, learning of cultures, being entertained.
Is a co-student who spends 20 euros a night to get dead drunk and stagger home, throwing up on every corner, better? Less of a "loser"?

I prefer being a loser and spending money where it at least gives me education, culture and a fun past time than spend it on what most "cool" and "social" and "modern kids" do. Which btw, are too shy if not drunk. They need the booze to become social. :blink

As for the subject, what companies don't get is that someone without money to spend on such damn expensive things, like nuts and me here and I'm sure many of you, would not buy the DVDs in the first place.
If someone is too poor and results to pirating, cutting off that line would not make them crap money and run to get the original. They would not see a dime from that person anyway. But you know what they would see?
The merchandise we talked about, which is more affordable. The person would love a work and when they have money, possibly even buy the DVDs for all the extras and making of etc. They would gain a customer then.

Now that I think about it, I might just make an article on this. On exactly how much of that merchandise exists, how much they cost and how many people buy them because of piracy.

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Post by Keiko1981 » Jan 28th, '12, 13:12

Orion1986 wrote:I prefer to spend my money on internet and an occasional game. I prefer watching dramas, movies, learning of cultures, being entertained.
Is a co-student who spends 20 euros a night to get dead drunk and stagger home, throwing up on every corner, better? Less of a "loser"?
That's me in a nut-shell. With the only difference I'm not a student.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 13:20

Ahaha. The staggering, throwing up kind? Well, that's how you chose to spend your money. Doesn't make you worse or better. Makes you different. You have a right to mark every street corner and I have a right to b*tch online. :P

Btw, an interesting video. I would hug this man. I will add this, if I make an article on the merchandise.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0Qkyt1wXNlI" frameborder="0"></iframe>

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Post by Keiko1981 » Jan 28th, '12, 13:25

Orion1986 wrote:Ahaha. The staggering, throwing up kind? Well, that's how you chose to spend your money. Doesn't make you worse or better. Makes you different. You have a right to mark every street corner and I have a right to b*tch online.

Btw, an interesting video. I would hug this man. I will add this, if I make an article on the merchandise.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0Qkyt1wXNlI" frameborder="0"></iframe>
No, no, no, you get me wrong. I stay as far away as possible from alcohol. Okay, I'm done being off-topic.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 13:35

Welcome to my world. :P Ehehe.

What Gaiman there said, which was very interesting and I commented on in my blog too, is that piracy does not cause lost sales. Someone who downloads something would not buy the thing anyway, because they wouldn't know it if not for the download.
If no one pirates, no one will buy something they don't know if they'll even like. No one without money to spend like an idiot. So, no earnings from that person. But if they do see it beforehand, they might buy in the future. They might buy it as a gift for others.

The man flat out admitted that piracy boosted his sales and made him more known. And THAT is what these industries don't like. Because their competition, including those who are better than them, get attention and money and recognition and harm their monopoly.

Some people complain in the comments on the video, saying that movies are not the same, because avid book readers buy or read many times while movie goers only watch once. Therefore, they don't buy it.
Well, goes to show how much they know about movie goers. I've watched one movie even up to 80 times within a few months. I watch them all many times. Also, if you're a prick, you'll pirate no matter what.
And you wouldn't buy the thing no matter what. Even if the product is much easier to transfer to many than lending a book is, people who have some decency will still buy. And pricks never would anyway.

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Post by nuts » Jan 28th, '12, 19:12

@curlywurly
when I said "un-entertained and bored" it didn't mean that I've got nothing else to do
it's just that, to be honest, I really don't (and can't) enjoy music from my country at all
and I don't really have interest in watching local drama/movie
I only enjoy Japanese music and drama/movie, and maybe some west movies, so if I can't get them by downloading while I couldn't afford to buy the original, how can I get them?

surely I still have other interest like reading books, doing some sports or some other fun things, but hey, losing the music and movies is like trapping me in a jail, losing more than half of the fun in the world.. :(

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Post by ziliey » Jan 28th, '12, 21:19

I'm a major fan of Korean and Japanese Drama, anime and manga. My whole life revolves around these and I can't/ won't be able to adapt to a life without them. Is this really the end of all our dramas or is there even a tiny bit of hope that we still have a fighting chance to get our internet freedom back?? I'm downloading stuff as we speak and I have no idea when they will come and arrest me.. I have 4 more years left in China and I don't know what I'll do without my daily dose of dramas.. This whole thing seems like such a hopeless case and I am sorry for grumbling here. I can't afford to buy DVDs or CD's since I am a student and all.. If this is the end, I want to let you know that I love daddicts and I have been following this thread for quite some time. It was great to be a part of a wonderful site... :(

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 28th, '12, 21:42

No such morose attitude...
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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 28th, '12, 21:45

Don't worry, loves. This isn't over. Let's try our best and hope.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 28th, '12, 22:00

Hope for the best and plan for the worst :).

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Post by takeda_shingen » Jan 28th, '12, 22:49

Seems EU-centric from a short glance, I think someone asked about that earlier: https://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/How_t ... ainst_ACTA

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 29th, '12, 00:00

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but can anyone verify this then?

“A leaked version of the February 2011 draft U.S. TPP Intellectual Property Rights Chapter indicates that U.S. negotiators are pushing for the adoption of copyright measures far more restrictive than currently required by international treaties, including the controversial Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement.”

“The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative is pursuing a TPP agreement that will require signatory counties to adopt heightened copyright protection that advances the agenda of the U.S. entertainment and pharmaceutical industries, but omits the flexibilities and exceptions that protect Internet users and technology innovators.”

Yep, more restrictive than ACTA.

Countries will be forced to rewrite their copyright laws and adopt this agreement’s (beyond sucky) laws.

I don’t really know much about this myself, but here are a few points summarized from the article:
-Temporary reproductions of copyrighted works without permission will count as infringement. (So I’m guessing you can’t put your music on an external drive if you’re getting a new computer?)
-Countries can’t import legitimate goods without copyright owner approval. (So basically Japan could say that USA is no longer allowed to import anime.)
-Extend the Life+70 years copyright in individual work, and the 95 years after publication/120 years for corporation stuff.
-Ban circumvention of digital locks. (DMCA is a whole host of issues in and of itself.)
-“Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation.” (Pretty self-explanatory there.)
-“Adopt the U.S. DMCA Internet Intermediaries copyright safe harbor regime in its entirety. This would require Chile to rewrite its forward-looking 2010 copyright law that currently provides for a judicial notice and takedown regime, which provides greater protection to Internet users’ expression and privacy than the DMCA’s copyright safe harbor regime.” (Couldn’t have said it better myself.)”

More on that here.

They seem dead set on doing these things, so you know what? F*ck it. Let them do it and see what happens when people get royally pissed. Which I hope we all will get.

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Post by miyachanfan » Jan 29th, '12, 01:38

seriously, they're mocking us. in their eyes we're mindless slaves not entitled to an opinion, without basic rights, not asked when "democratically deciding YOUR country's laws" (in this case WORLD WIDE, welcome conspiracy theorists).

1984 indeed.

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Post by Tyrea » Jan 29th, '12, 15:27

Orion1986 wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but can anyone verify this then?
yes it's true. it has been leaked that they're holding a secret meeting next week.
Orion1986 wrote:They seem dead set on doing these things, so you know what? F*ck it. Let them do it and see what happens when people get royally pissed. Which I hope we all will get.
From an interview with George Soros:
As anger rises, riots on the streets of American cities are inevitable. “Yes, yes, yes,” he says, almost gleefully. The response to the unrest could be more damaging than the violence itself. “It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.”
some additional news, titles of the articles being self explanatory:

Copyright Industry Calls For Broad Search Engine Censorship
FBI looking to scour Facebook, Twitter and more for incriminating evidence Oh please, as if they haven't been doing that already. With megaupload they've shown that they can easily get access to skype conversations. And skype conversations are encrypted and were thought to be safe and private. If anyone is interested look up CIPAV, aka fbi's spyware which has been around for years.

MPAA Exec Admits: 'We're Not Comfortable With The Internet'

Google already knows you're a 24-year old woman who loves wombats

I gotta share the most ridiculous case of censorship ever, came across it yesterday. So, there is an organization in my town that organizes classical concerts in summer.They recorded a few performances and yesterday I found out they uploaded the movies on youtube. There is one particular (wonderful) concert in which a renowned croatian pianist performed a mozart's sonata. So to sum up, a croatian artist performs mozart in a croatian town, the concert was organized by croatian people and put on the official channel of the organization, and I, because I have a croatian IP can't watch it because it's blocked in croatia on copyright grounds??? Are you f*cking kidding me? The artist is not an EMI artist and of course we all know that mozart IS an american.

I am seriously considering getting a vpn. And all of you concerned about privacy should consider one too. Just make sure they don't keep any kind of logs, that they don't discriminate against p2p apps/traffic and possibly use encryption.

As for us being just slaves, I'll tell you what i was told once in RL. It's their life philosophy.
-your origin and gene pool is very important. not your personality, your brain, not what you make of yourself, because no matter what you do, your roots will always be visible (obviously, aristocratic gene pool is the highest and most respectable)
-if you start poor but end up rich, you're not really respectable, even though you will be in the higher layer of the society. being born into a rich family, one that has been rich for generations, now that's respectable and desirable and makes you the perfect snob that has every right to look down on lesser humans
-all the humans with poor roots (and without money) are born to serve those with good ones.even the smartest innovators and scientists, unless belonging to the previously mentioned groups, are born to serve you and to make your life easier.

I am not joking >.>

I also encourage you to watch the documentary "Consuming Kids" by the media education foundation. It will show you how we're trained as consumers and addicts from the youngest age using dirty psychological tricks, and you'll also be able to see/hear what kind of creepy people work in the business. If i recall correctly one guy said in his presentation that "they own us". Just a warning, It's very, very disturbing. After seeing this and a documentary on eugenics, nothing can surprise me anymore. And as much as people like to say that stupid people are dangerous, the smart ones are far, far more dangerous, and can be downright scary.
You can find it on torrent sites or watch it on youtube.
Last edited by Tyrea on Jan 29th, '12, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 29th, '12, 15:48

Tyrea, thanks a lot for those links and thoughts. I can barely believe I live in such times when we witness the coup-d'etat on our freedom. It's so unimaginable, it existed only in dystopian novels, it...

OK, so who's the tech geek and can create IP shield to protect our data sent and received?
Pople should start working on this, seriously.
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 29th, '12, 16:02

Tyrea wrote:FBI looking to scour Facebook, Twitter and more for incriminating evidence Oh please, as if they haven't been doing that already. With megaupload they've shown that they can easily get access to skype conversations. And skype conversations are encrypted and were thought to be safe and private. If anyone is interested look up CIPAV, aka fbi's spyware which has been around for years.

Google already knows you're a 24-year old woman who loves wombats
It's everyones own responsibility to use these communication platforms! I doubt that people forced other people to use these platform like facebook, skype and google. It is only a peer pressure and allurement. If you feel to be cheated, monitored or misused for commercial purpose it is your own fail and of course you can break away from these services. Secret services monitoring always existed and will be always exist in the future, but it is a huge different to spread your information voluntarily and in public or be be traced by companies and government supervision without spreading information on your active acts.
Tyrea wrote: As for us being just slaves, I'll tell you what i was told once in RL.
-your origin and gene pool is very important. not your personality, your brain, not what you make of yourself, because no matter what you do, your roots will always be visible (obviously, aristocratic gene pool is the highest and most respectable)
-if you start poor but end up rich, you're not really respectable, even though you will be in the higher layer of the society. being born into a rich family, one that has been rich for generations, now that's respectable and desirable and makes you the perfect snob that has every right to look down on lesser humans
-all the humans with poor roots (and without money) are born to serve those with good ones.even the smartest innovators and scientists, unless belonging to the previously mentioned groups, are born to serve you and to make your life easier.
You can study a lot of these issues very controversial and critical at universities. The sciense is called "Sociology" :P

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 29th, '12, 16:04

Sorvaseven wrote: It's everyones own responsibility to use these communication platforms! I doubt that people forced other people to use these platform like facebook, skype and google. It is only a peer pressure and allurement. If you feel to be cheated, monitored or misused for commercial purpose it is your own fail and of course you can break away from these services. Secret services monitoring always existed and will be always existed in the future, but it is a huge different to spread your information voluntarily and in public or be be traced by companies and government supervision without spreading information on your active acts.
You don't use google? Try to find anything on crappy yahoo search engine, which isn't as free as we think as well.
Sorvaseven wrote:You can study a lot of these issues very controversial and critical at universities. The sciense is called "Sociology" :P
And "Anthropology".
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 29th, '12, 16:14

Ethlenn wrote: You don't use google? Try to find anything on crappy yahoo search engine, which isn't as free as we think as well.
No, i use https://startpage.com/ or https://ixquick.com/ . Startpage use the searchengine from google, but anonymized all data, your IP and so on, Ixquick is nearly the same principle, but has an own searchengine technology. I prefer Startpage, because the search results are the same as the results from google.
Ethlenn wrote: And "Anthropology".

Yes, i forget to mentioned it ;-)

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 29th, '12, 16:17

And if Scatology wasn't taken, we could name our attempts to sort and understand all this crap that.

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Post by sensei991 » Jan 29th, '12, 16:19

If you use torrent downloads, you can get some protection by using a client that only allows connections with encrypted peers (I use Transmission on my Mac) and by setting up a list for blocking connections to ISPs and other entities that may be gathering info on your torrents.

http://www.iblocklist.com/lists.php

At this page, there is also a link to a VPN (virtual private network) site that, for $6.50/mo, will allow you to surf and download without your ISP being able to monitor and with your IP address not visible to the Internet.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 29th, '12, 16:26

And Sorvaseven, if it's part of Google, I don't really trust startpage. It's more likely that the feds would use it to find all those searching for things secretly (because they are things they can get persecuted for), than for it to be an actual pass at freedom.
Last edited by Orion1986 on Jan 29th, '12, 16:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 29th, '12, 16:26

sensei991 wrote:If you use torrent downloads, you can get some protection by using a client that only allows connections with encrypted peers (I use Transmission on my Mac) and by setting up a list for blocking connections to ISPs and other entities that may be gathering info on your torrents.
You can also install very quick and easy Peer Guardian and get some protection from static IP's if you update everday the list, but you can't do anything against dynamic IP's, i guess.

Info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeerGuardian
Download: http://sourceforge.net/projects/peerguardian/

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 29th, '12, 16:29

The problem with all such programs and sites is that they are very iffy sometimes. They are good ways to trick users into downloading things that violate their rights. Viruses, trojans, unknowingly helping hackers with them, stealing private data etc.

I mean, I would never trust programs that are made by some stranger/not legitimate company to handle such high security risk issues of mine. Companies are bastards, but anonymous sources cannot be trusted either. And that's an issue.

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Ethlenn
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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 29th, '12, 16:30

Orion1986 wrote:And if Scatology wasn't taken, we could name our attempts to sort and understand all this crap that.
That would result in a heavy aneurysm.
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Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

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