Empress Ki (MBC 2013-2014)

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MitsukaiKuroi2
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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » Feb 11th, '14, 03:59

Another one here that hates the way that SN is treating TH!!! :cussing:

I know we are supposed to believe that she is trying "to make a man out of him" but seriously??? :x He is taking too much garbage from her in episodes 27 and 28 IMO and still running to her side! And what makes it worse IMO is that she married him and they haven't "done the do"?!?!?! If she thinks that her baby is dead, and she wants revenge, shouldn't she be "trying" to get pregnant so her child could have a possibility of becoming a future ruler and give her more power???

Oh I forgot... they have to keep her 'hooha' pure and only for WY... :glare:

I am really missing the funny and cute moments with her and TH! It was one of the things that pulled me into the series,,, The 'bonding" moments of them together were amazing! And I understand that her and WY are supposed to be the OTP but I still can not "feel" why they supposedly love each other so much... I thought maybe she cared for WY more out of loyalty to her country but for me there is nothing else... I even find the "voucher" plot a boring waste of time even if it was something pivotal in Yuan/Goryeo history.......

I am sure that before this is all over they will make TH evil, crazy, greedy and he will push her away (in history that is what the real Emperor did to EK because she became power hungry and was not in love with him as he was with her) but I wish she would respond back to him in some way... I also started liking Danishiri a little more than SN at this point... At least you can get where she is coming from and you know what she wants!

But the show did get better after the disastrous episodes 22 and 23 (IMO)... It has become interesting even if SN has become somewhat annoying...... :lol

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Post by ahireasu » Feb 11th, '14, 07:47

I will disagree with all the 3 above comments...... sorry :)

Ep 20-24 was a disaster for me and i was ready to drop the series, but it was saved from the turn it took and went from a mushy wooshy lovey dovey crap(sorry i know you all girls love this stuff but this is supposed to be Empress Ki and it must have political/power struggles inside the palace) to a bit more serious.
Yes i hate the WY and SN "couple" and i can't seem to put those two together as well but other than that the series is ok,yes SN is a cold hearted **** (or it seems that way) but you forget where she is coming from,mother died you know how...father dead you know how as well and now her baby is dead( this is what she believes) and you expect her to be lovey dovey with TH because???? he treats her nice? seriously?even in the kdrama planet that would be really off.
Yes it gives me on my nerves sometimes too her way of behavior,but she is not wrong wanting TH to become strong whiled and a person that can stand on his two fits,because right now he is more useless than a dog on the street.

Harsh words i know :P , i will continue this post later, now time to go back to work :P

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Post by Viande » Feb 11th, '14, 08:38

ahireasu wrote:but you forget where she is coming from,mother died you know how...father dead you know how as well and now her baby is dead( this is what she believes) and you expect her to be lovey dovey with TH because???? he treats her nice? seriously?even in the kdrama planet that would be really off.
Yes it gives me on my nerves sometimes too her way of behavior,but she is not wrong wanting TH to become strong whiled and a person that can stand on his two fits,because right now he is more useless than a dog on the street.
Except TH had nothing to do with these deaths. It doesn't make sense to me hate someone because someone from same country did something bad to you. It was all done by El Temur and Tanasili. This is the fault in SN's character that I hate the most and I don't get how people think it's ok. Her hate for TH doesn't make sense if you actually think about.

I also disagree on TH being useless. Without TH SN would've been dead so many times already and she wouldn't even been able to get back in the palace without him choosing her. SN can be all high and mighty but in reality she has no power by herself without using TH. Even though I like TH getting stronger I don't approve SN's way to use him because she knows he likes her.
Last edited by Viande on Feb 11th, '14, 08:41, edited 1 time in total.

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MitsukaiKuroi2
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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » Feb 11th, '14, 09:47

ahireasu wrote: 'ok,yes SN is a cold hearted **** (or it seems that way) but you forget where she is coming......' (edit) 'but she is not wrong wanting TH to become strong whiled and a person that can stand on his two fits,because right now he is more useless than a dog on the street. '
I think the problem that I am having is that she has all of this "anger" now (which is understandable) and she wants revenge (also understandable) but what I dislike is that she is now approaching TH with the attitude of "I am hurt... I want you to help me get revenge and in return you will get revenge too..." But what else does he get after he has given her so much? He is still alone and suffering with no one to turn to IMO... I do not expect her to fall in love with TH... I would be more understanding to the character of SN if she was coming to him as an ally and slowly becoming his friend rather than "I am just going to use you and you will put up with it!"

I agree with Viande... I do not think he is useless... He has helped her, sheltered her, hid her, etc. SN never seems to take those things into consideration... But WY touches her fingers while they are tied to pole and that is the greatest memory of love that is looped over and over to us? I actually find that funny and sad! :lol

TH has learned how to survive the only way he knows how... She still blames him for her father's death but I don't like that the SN character does not try to stop and see where TH is coming from... Why he may have lied... Why he puts on the "cowardly act"... Why he feels so alone and scared... I am hoping that they will explore that but I doubt it...

The show is called Empress Ki indeed... It is about SN and her struggles... I actually love the politics involved (more with the inner court and El Temur's fight for control than the voucher storyline). The show pulled me back in by episode 25, but I would like to see more friendship growing between her and the Emperor.... I want to see something that makes me want to root for them together against the twisted politics of the palace and countries... I like that they made her a stronger character again but IMO I think they could have had her dealings with TH be a little different... Perhaps I will be happier in a few more episodes... We will have to wait and see... :-)

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Post by ahireasu » Feb 11th, '14, 09:49

Viande wrote:
ahireasu wrote:but you forget where she is coming from,mother died you know how...father dead you know how as well and now her baby is dead( this is what she believes) and you expect her to be lovey dovey with TH because???? he treats her nice? seriously?even in the kdrama planet that would be really off.
Yes it gives me on my nerves sometimes too her way of behavior,but she is not wrong wanting TH to become strong whiled and a person that can stand on his two fits,because right now he is more useless than a dog on the street.
Except TH had nothing to do with these deaths. It doesn't make sense to me hate someone because someone from same country did something bad to you. It was all done by El Temur and Tanasili. This is the fault in SN's character that I hate the most and I don't get how people think it's ok. Her hate for TH doesn't make sense if you actually think about.

I also disagree on TH being useless. Without TH SN would've been dead so many times already and she wouldn't even been able to get back in the palace without him choosing her. SN can be all high and mighty but in reality she has no power by herself without using TH. Even though I like TH getting stronger I don't approve SN's way to use him because she knows he likes her.
Haven't finished my previous post do to work but it's ok, i can answer to what you said.

You forget that in SN eyes TH is responsible in a way for her fathers death,when he acussed him(SN's father) that he tried to kill him(TH) in order to save his own skin,ofc under the threats of el temur that he will kill everyone there,BUT she doesn't know that and TH never said anything about what happened back then so it is natural for her to hate TH and you mention that thanks to TH,SN is alive etc. yes i agree but don't forget who saved TH when he was in Goguryeo,he wouldn't be alive and an emperor now if it wasn't for SN,so they both saved eachothers life's in many ocassions.

Rest after i finish work

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Post by Issy » Feb 11th, '14, 10:32

I'm having trouble with understanding SN character. Sure, everything is made clear for us to know roots of her pain, but do they want to tell us that she turned as evil as Tanashili, to revenge her dead friends and baby? Because if she is, then I might be able to forgive her actions and accpet that previous SN is no longer and we will have SN replacing TN.
But if they want to her to be the same heroine as beginning but wiser and mature, then they're doing it totally wrong because I have lost my little liking for her when she started treating TH like this.
I guess we should not expect a Kdrama portraying a non-goreyo person as normal human being. SN, WY and all of his gang never treated them like one and it's kind of understandable in someway. but the problem is their stupidity to go after the wrong person and keep the big head alive.
They created SN's father story for them to have reason for SN always hate TH and never fall in love with him for himself. He lied to safe himself when her dad was tortured and near death already and she knows it but no! TH killed her father. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't WY also saw her father just when was captured and before tortured and pretended not seeing him to keep himself alive? So how is this act is noble and other one coward?
And TH was never useless nor stupid. If he was, he would have died ages ago and never got on emperor throne. They show you how WY is trying to manipulate his enemies to his favour but the best manipulator (in a good way^^) is TH for being able to keep himself alive agaist ET's will unlike WY who is kept alive by ET because he values his "great and wise enemy"
SN keeps calling him weak and coward, comparing him to almighty WY but at the end, she comes to use his power for her revenge. She thinks she has the power to do everything but if TH turns his back to her, she is dead in no time. And I hate her ungratefulness for treating TH like this. I don't want her to turn all lovey dovey with TH and I liked that she told him she is not back to be with him but revenge but don't act like you're giving him tough love because you care for him.
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Post by Viande » Feb 11th, '14, 11:25

MitsukaiKuroi2 wrote:
ahireasu wrote: 'ok,yes SN is a cold hearted **** (or it seems that way) but you forget where she is coming......' (edit) 'but she is not wrong wanting TH to become strong whiled and a person that can stand on his two fits,because right now he is more useless than a dog on the street. '
I think the problem that I am having is that she has all of this "anger" now (which is understandable) and she wants revenge (also understandable) but what I dislike is that she is now approaching TH with the attitude of "I am hurt... I want you to help me get revenge and in return you will get revenge too..." But what else does he get after he has given her so much? He is still alone and suffering with no one to turn to IMO... I do not expect her to fall in love with TH... I would be more understanding to the character of SN if she was coming to him as an ally and slowly becoming his friend rather than "I am just going to use you and you will put up with it!"

----

TH has learned how to survive the only way he knows how... She still blames him for her father's death but I don't like that the SN character does not try to stop and see where TH is coming from... Why he may have lied... Why he puts on the "cowardly act"... Why he feels so alone and scared... I am hoping that they will explore that but I doubt it...
Yes, exactly these! She hasn't even bothered to see what kind of life TH lives, she's only busy taking care of her revenge and hurting other people while doing it. It's not like she's the only one who has suffered... Like Issy said, I have also lost my liking for her.
ahireasu wrote:You forget that in SN eyes TH is responsible in a way for her fathers death,when he acussed him(SN's father) that he tried to kill him(TH) in order to save his own skin,ofc under the threats of el temur that he will kill everyone there,BUT she doesn't know that and TH never said anything about what happened back then so it is natural for her to hate TH and you mention that thanks to TH,SN is alive etc. yes i agree but don't forget who saved TH when he was in Goguryeo,he wouldn't be alive and an emperor now if it wasn't for SN,so they both saved eachothers life's in many ocassions.
Nope, I haven't forget anything. I just pointed out that SN as character doesn't make sense to me. I'm not the type of person to watch dramas and take everything they say. I like to think if it actually makes sense or not because good writing is actually rare in dramas. And for SN and her hate for TH falls to this 'not making sense' category. It's only made to make story more melodramatic and I really hate using 'just because' as reason in melodramas to hate someone. They could've come up with better or more reasons than this lousy one.

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Post by Issy » Feb 11th, '14, 11:49

I have the same problem with SN here. While everyone was talking about how SN's reason for hating TH for her father's death is justifiable and that everyone in her place would do the the same, I was thinking what a lame excuse to make this happen. Writers did a lousy job in here creating the hate in SN for TH. If she's going to hate him forever in order to prevent her love for TH rivals her love with WY, then they should have made this hate based on much better story and make TH properly guilty. Here more or less looks like a misunderstanding or insisting on believing something which did not really happen.
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Post by ahireasu » Feb 11th, '14, 13:21

I like the conversation we started,don't get me wrong i agree in many things you say(issy,MitsukaiKuroi2 and Viande) so lets put some things in order.

EKI a historical drama that went to hell thanks to the "awesome" writters.

I really don't know where to begin tbh, :P the moment i put my thoughts in order i remember something else and all go down to drain.

TH... a "weak" person that will do anything to survive (beg,crawl,cry etc.) he is smart playing the dum,he lost his father and has no one to rely on too,until he meets SN and falls over heels for her.

SN a strong willed person that knows pain and sorrow since her pre teenage years first with the death of her mother,then her father and in the end her own baby,filled with anger and hatred for those that are responsible(up until one point understandable) she has now "turned her emotions off" , we can see that when she makes the decision to enter the palace as concubine and leaving WY and their "love".

WY here is where the story goess totally wrong for me,the writers decide to put a fictional king and to top it all they make him the Mr.Perfect as well,makes me want to kick him in the face,he will use anyone and anything in order to achive his goal (ofc against Yuan),smart and coniving.

I am not going to say that all is allowed for SN as long she can revenge the deaths of her friends and family (even thou the death of her father and especially her child is very fresh),but i think the turn the series took from ep25 is clear.
SN to obtain her goal puts off WY and her future together,she doesn't think of that at all anymore,she is cold,manipulative and with a strong will and desire to do anything to get revenge.

I still find TH naive at times, for example when he asks SN to leave together,him to abdigate like ET asks and take her and run somewhere.
There is no chance in hell for him to abdigate and ET let him live somewhere else,the moment he abdigates he dies,but it seems it doesn't cross his mind,i am certain SN knows that the only way to survive is to take out ET and his family.

Hmm is it because this is a korean drama?dunno but the whole thing with SN getting pregnand and giving birth to a baby at her 7th month in a cave after she fell 2-3 times on the process and started to bleed was one of the worst plots i saw so far ever....,first comes WY fictional super duper over the top with cream and choc chips on top character.

I am sure you have many things to add. :)

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Post by shiofmedea » Feb 11th, '14, 19:39

wow, it heated a lot!

So let me be a bit of devil advocate here and forget about real history. Story is delivered from conquered (in reality) nation point of view. So it was quite obvious that two main heroes (WY and SN - especialy SN) will not be objective. "You are not us, you are enemy and worst being ever" is main philosophy here. What's more WY declared at some point that nobody matters, guilty or not, as long as it benefit noble case of independence, which in mean time switched to "have my crown back" btw. But writer/director made few mistakes: took good actor who made weak (not so much) person still loveable, delivered strong story to make TH character understandable and easly forgiven, what's more even rooted for. In oposite they failed to prepare enough reason for not blinded by family/nation oriented ravenge person to hate him. They made WY character too schematic to invest in. What is more standard then fallen king, strong, smart and in love with some low range girl who sacrificed ..almost.. her life for him, and giving up everything for his nation of course? His companions are way more interesting then him. SN so called love here is for me simple crash and hero worship really not based on much evidence. You can say that it is not much chemistry between those too actors but in fact there is nothing to base on. TH and SN interacted, they build something but for me WY and SN relationship except for initial crash of wills was mild and master/servant like. Not a healthy foundation in my opinion. Back to SN I am not surprised by her behaviour as it was indicated early in drama what kind of person she is. I already writed it before, she, as a child lived in the house of person who she saw with her mother killer and waited for the moment to betray him. As a child! She saw it, she decided to stay and waited for right time to deliver a blow! Should I repeat: as a child! Is it normal? I would say no! And you can sau she did not have choice as she had nowhere to go and I agree that it is true but it is reasoning of grown person who is making calculated decision. If she was able to be so cold and calculated then, to smile and declare loyality to hated person I do not expect her to be nice and understanding here. She will not see person, she will see tool. She will never forget or forgive or justify. There was small hope that she can see ally in TH but for that he is still too passive. TH made survival into art and unfortunately (or by purpose really) story did not gave him any real suport, no allies. Yes, he is not stupid, I would say he is far more inteligent that maybe it was planned. Was he less he would move already but his power is elusive still, especially now when there is child here who can replace him and put Regent into official power position once again. All supposed allies are more like wolves here packed together temporary and all they really want is to replace Regent by themselves. They care for TH as useful puppet nothing more... in fact only thing keeping me here and only good job done with this drama so far is TH story which is ironic. Story overplayed WY and SN and made them less and less apealing characters but accidentally created moving picture of tragic character in presence of TH. Let's face it guy is damned from begining: banned and almost killed by his own nation, saved by those who hate him in principle, not even knowing him, always used by all sides, strugling to survive always 2 steps from ending dead, even falling for the worst possible person? I can only admire that he is still sane and alive.
Uh.. I lost point a bit, but what I was trying to say: stop expecting anything from SN, she is damaged person revange driven from beginnig, with brief stop after WY come and before TH connected distarpture arrived into her life.She is somehow logical in twisted kind of way if we see her as that. Even her hate for TH make sense here. No, I do not like her and I do not approve. I only wander if it was true idea to make her this way or only we who are not invested on any side of conflict for history reasons see it. So I made peace with myself here and I am going to divide my attention watching this drama between cold political play (my favourite always) and TH's Greek like tragedy (not my favourite as my heart is breaking for the guy). No love story anymore!

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Post by Viande » Feb 11th, '14, 23:05

I'm not expecting anything from SN anymore, unless writers decide to tease us with something like the rose petal bath... But it doesn't stop me from getting annoyed. I'd rather have TH with someone else than this torture the writers are giving us right now.

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Post by Issy » Feb 12th, '14, 07:15

Viande wrote:I'm not expecting anything from SN anymore, unless writers decide to tease us with something like the rose petal bath... But it doesn't stop me from getting annoyed. I'd rather have TH with someone else than this torture the writers are giving us right now.
I rather have Tanashili for TH than SN with her cold face and angry eyes whenever she's with him. At least we all know that TN loves TH in a palace where no one likes or care about him. Even goreyo people in that palace have more power than he does and do whatever they please. Talking about invasion...
This drama proving to be a torture for me to watch but I can't let go of uri emperor :wub:
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Post by ahireasu » Feb 12th, '14, 10:38

Issy wrote:
Viande wrote:I'm not expecting anything from SN anymore, unless writers decide to tease us with something like the rose petal bath... But it doesn't stop me from getting annoyed. I'd rather have TH with someone else than this torture the writers are giving us right now.
I rather have Tanashili for TH than SN with her cold face and angry eyes whenever she's with him. At least we all know that TN loves TH in a palace where no one likes or care about him. Even goreyo people in that palace have more power than he does and do whatever they please. Talking about invasion...
This drama proving to be a torture for me to watch but I can't let go of uri emperor :wub:
Haha oh common give some love to that poor SN :cry: , i will be the devil's advocate and say..... Issy you are correct,give some love to TS, WHY all the hate? TH don't be so cold hearted,don't you see how much she loves you? don't be a jerk.... :whistling:

Rings any bell?That's SN-TH and to go even further TS hasn't done anything wrong to TH except being the daughter of ET and he treated her like trash from the start,but no one complained lol.

It's TH fault that she became a vengefull woman (well she was a spoiled b.... to begin with but thats another story) and you even hooray for her lol.

On the other hand SN from a righteous person becomes a cold calculative heartless woman AFTER going thru extreme hardship,i don't think anyone in his/her right mind would stay unaffected and still consider to be lovey dovey with anyone after losing her/his child.

Yes me too i really don't like WY-SN pair but picture this,the writters created this couple the "perfect WY king of goguryeo in love with the poor SN" and SN is crazy for WY and despite that SHE chose to go in the palace as concubine to get revenge.
She doesn't wait for WY she doesn't think about love anymore,but revenge is all she cares.

If she doesn't even consider WY how do you expect her to notice or even care about TH??

PS.@ shiofmedea SN never betrayed anyone,it is called revenge.

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Post by Issy » Feb 12th, '14, 11:34

I'm sorry but I have no love or compassion for SN. She is written as strong, brave, righteous ...woman in the drama but it doesn't mean I have to see her as such. In ep29 you can clearly see that she used a dirty trick to get her revenge from TN. Now as much as I see her reasons for revenge, a dirty trick is still a dirty trick. It doesn't make her actions noble because she's doing for her friends, baby and whole people of goreyo. The fact that she agreed to become one man's concubine when she doesn't like him just to use his power and throne for her revenge makes me less of her.
As I said before, this drama is not Empress Ki for me but Emperor TaHwan.
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Post by ahireasu » Feb 12th, '14, 12:45

I haven't watched ep29 yet (no subs out and all) and btw what happened to ep30?
It didn't air last night right?

On the subject now, everyone is entitled their opinion, but tell me something you support TS more,did she used righteous ways?or you mean because SN is portrayed as "strong, brave, righteous ...woman in the drama" she must always act like one even if it means her death only to stay righteous?
This is called the fools death, in any case for me SN turned from righteous etc. to cold,manipulative etc. do to her grieve, it is that strong (maybe the writers"i doubt it" are trying to show that with the change of SN)
I will not say is right or wrong,but i will not be also absolute about "hating or loving" someone in this drama.
I like TH as well but he is really such a woosh so far, yes he tries to survive yes he is not powerfull yet, but man grow some.......... + emperor that can't read or write ,give me a break.(this is up untill ep28 we don't know what or how the chars will evolve in next 20 ep).
And yes i know you will say TH can't read or write because ET didn't let him or smth,still this is not an excuse for me.

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Post by Issy » Feb 12th, '14, 14:33

I really think you are missing my point in here.
First of all, I am NOT supporting Tanashili in here. We were talking about love and romance part in TH's life and I said I rather have TS because at least she loves him not like SN who does not. TS turned this way because TH rejected her as his wife (same reason as SN rejecting TH's love because of their father). I always saw reasons behind her actions and it all came from jealousy for being rejected.

I never shipped TH-SN because I don't ship one sided love. I don't mind WY with SN no matter how their love seems dull and boring with no chemistry between two actors. I really wished that there was someone else for TH because I can't see his heart gets broken by SN over and over.

Now, the same way you can justify SN actions for what she's done or about to do, I can also justifying TH actions. I'm not defending TH because he looks cute with SN but because I can see why he's like this. He was not born "perfect" as some and I am witnessing his journey and struggle to perfect himself. That was the main reason why I fell for TH is the first place. He was weak, coward with no confidence. But look at how far he has come. There is so much character development on his side. For whatever reason he was not able to read and write (the more stupid you look, the more you live in his case) he's trying to better himself by learning. He even tried to kill ET for god's sake. Don't forget that he suppose be 5 years younger than SN. I'm not expecting him to turn into WY overnight.

As for SN, I'm not saying she has to keep righteous all the time. Actually I believe it more if she turned evil to take her revenge. But if drama trying to tell me she's still the old SN, the hero and righteous after her evil actions, I won't accept it.
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Post by ahireasu » Feb 12th, '14, 15:21

@Issy,

We agree in many things.
Don't you find it strange that TH char has so much development while WY's remains 2 dimensional?to me that means we haven't seen not even 50% of what is to happen between SN and TH(even if in real history EKI probably never was in love with the real TH,she tried to make him advocate so her son could take his place).

TH's reason to learn is SN everything he does is for SN so in a way the development and all his efforts to improve is all thanks to SN and not TH for TH.

To me now SN looks broken,blinded from the pain and the thoughts of revenge for what she has suffered, nothing more nothing less.

As for WY never liked him and never will.

I am waiting for the subs to watch ep29.

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To Emperor or not to Empiess

Post by Tai » Feb 12th, '14, 18:16

Issy wrote:I'm sorry but I have no love or compassion for SN. She is written as strong, brave, righteous ...woman in the drama but it doesn't mean I have to see her as such. In ep29 you can clearly see that she used a dirty trick to get her revenge from TN. Now as much as I see her reasons for revenge, a dirty trick is still a dirty trick. It doesn't make her actions noble because she's doing for her friends, baby and whole people of goreyo. The fact that she agreed to become one man's concubine when she doesn't like him just to use his power and throne for her revenge makes me less of her.
As I said before, this drama is not Empress Ki for me but Emperor TaHwan.
Well, now that's putting the spots back on the cat. You said just what we've been thinking here in Arizona. It makes that scene in Ep21 even more sad. because the script has repeated often enough "I got nothing for you" that when the bathhouse scene played, it was like the lips were there but no one was home.
I also found it odd that when SN decided she was going after the concubine position she never sent a msg to WY. I have a hunch after Ep 30 it won't matter.
Who needs a french Menage a trois, when you can have a Korean three party...right!
Btw, what SBS drama is that pinned in your post, with the little one in the red dress?

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Post by Issy » Feb 12th, '14, 19:29

@Tai
It's from 2013 daily drama Ugly Alert 8)

And your hunch is right. It won't matter anymore but I'm wondering if she's going to keep the secret not tell him about the baby which I see it very likely
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Tai
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Post by Tai » Feb 19th, '14, 05:08

How cool is this I just watched the current episodes and from everyones posts tweets etc I actually was able to make up great dialog.

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MitsukaiKuroi2
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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » Feb 22nd, '14, 04:59

TH and SN shipper moment!!! :wub:

I know I am not the only one that loved the part in episode 31 when TH goes to hug her and she momentarily sinks into his embrace

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and then SN's eyes pop open when she realizes how she is reacting!!!

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Yeah it is a small thing to get excited over but does this mean that she is starting to have 'some' feelings for TH? :P

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Post by Tai » Feb 22nd, '14, 05:54

That was very cool and when ET brings the document up to the throne and leans in and asks "Whats go on", like "What are you up to". TH just takes the abdication scroll and does the ol Olympic side step. Welll, TH is also changing. Because of EK. I think she is softening up. One could call it the rise of TH.
EK's Lil orphan Anne eyeball stare and the twin peak lipstick pattern, I hope is the first to go. It doesn't fit in Vogue, but Vampire quarterly.
MitsukaiKuroi2, thanks for the photos, btw.

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Issy
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Post by Issy » Feb 26th, '14, 11:20

I have to say that I wasn't very happy with ep33. They fooled and tricked us again into believing something deeper might develop between TH and SN but just left it like old times. This was their chance for the drama to get out of circle that has been running in almost since beginning and for story to progress but no! They decided they love what have they been doing so far and wanted to do it all over again.
I see WY character is one of main issues that they can't progress and get out of the circle. Having JJM as one of main cast, force them to keep him constantly in main storyline when his part has been reduced dramatically once SN made up her mind and chose TH.
I'm not even sure why he's staying in Yuan Palace (apart from obvious reasons) now whole time when he wanted to get back his throne and serve Goreyo and his people so badly.
They have to keep WY in palace to remind us of "deep love" between him and SN constantly and to show he's still in her heart because they can't do it once he's back in Goreyo. Specially when we have such sweet romantic scenes between TH and SN.
Empress Ki writers really have to come out of their comfort zone and decide an ending for each of their characters instead of trying to keep every ship happy and satisfied.
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Post by Viande » Feb 26th, '14, 12:29

Issy wrote:I have to say that I wasn't very happy with ep33. They fooled and tricked us again into believing something deeper might develop between TH and SN but just left it like old times. This was their chance for the drama to get out of circle that has been running in almost since beginning and for story to progress but no! They decided they love what have they been doing so far and wanted to do it all over again.
I see WY character is one of main issues that they can't progress and get out of the circle. Having JJM as one of main cast, force them to keep him constantly in main storyline when his part has been reduced dramatically once SN made up her mind and chose TH.
These cliff-hangers have become old by now. Every time there is cliff-hanger like this my first thought is that it won't happen. If they really wanted they could've made this as real love triangle with both sides getting as good scenes. Or they could've made WY & SN love a lot more interesting and then naturally make them grow separately and give space for TH & SN. Now it's just half-assed WY & SN love that feels more of loyalty than love and empty promises of passionate TH & SN love. They really need to decide what they want.
Issy wrote:Empress Ki writers really have to come out of their comfort zone and decide an ending for each of their characters instead of trying to keep every ship happy and satisfied.
Exactly! I feel they're continuing this cliff-hanger method just to please everyone and get high ratings. It's also clear that they're running out of ideas for 50 episodes and that's why they're not in hurry to move on. If they really wanted they should've just chose one ship and tell their love story or make both work and not this half-assed ball tossing that is starting to drag.

I also find it sad that we have to be happy about these rather questionable kissing/hugging scenes with SN and TH. Why one of them always has to be unconscious?? It's taking half of the excitement. :crazy:

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Post by Issy » Feb 26th, '14, 20:02

@Viande
I'm still wondering why TH has such super hot romantic scenes ( even though one of them is unconscious at the time) with SN when they clearly favouring WY-SN pair and why their love is so boring and not convincing at all? :scratch:
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Post by Viande » Feb 26th, '14, 20:28

@Issy
I would like to believe it is because TH-SN is endgame but due the abusive nature of these writer's love for us drama watchers, I'm not getting my hopes up. Thanks to WBDS I have realized drama writers can favour totally platonic pairs too...

But! Since we have had unconscious kisses from both sides, I'm sure next one will be real! (It better be....) I'm just hoping they won't reveal SN's child yet. Let WY be the bad guy for a while first. Maybe SN won't run to his arms then.

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Post by ahireasu » Mar 4th, '14, 06:47

I don't know ep33 seemed kinda hopeful, the tears while "feeding" the medicine with her mouth.
The sense of betrayal that she felt from WY and the look that she gave him,maybe that's the turning point?
One can hope....
The worst thing for me about this series is one,the first episode where they showed us that EKI married TH and WY was alive, so we know from day one the ending(I believe since we are at ep 33 the writers won't go any further than that) so no matter how serious his wounds are no biggie because he is alive in wending so no suspence and no matter how much anyone wants him dead,.... No can't do he is alive at wending.

It's like the writers showed us the finger from day one of this drama.

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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » Mar 4th, '14, 12:21

ahireasu wrote:I don't know ep33 seemed kinda hopeful, the tears while "feeding" the medicine with her mouth. The sense of betrayal that she felt from WY and the look that she gave him,maybe that's the turning point?
I also felt the same way!! A feeling that she has been around TH long enough to start feeling something for him... But I always thought that she was falling for TH in the beginning until he betrayed her then her attention turned to WY... That was just IMO...

And the first thing that shot through my mind with WY's betrayal was "OMG He did the SAME thing that TH did!!! Lied to protect himself!!!" (Remember when TH lied and SN's father died because of it... That is when she started hating TH.)

But I also wonder if they will have WY "redeem" himself in the next episode... Have him say something that saves her..... And then he won't be "as bad as" TH. The true upstanding Korean man! :roll

.
ahireasu wrote:The worst thing for me about this series is one,the first episode where they showed us that EKI married TH and WY was alive, so we know from day one the ending (EDIT)
Well in history the real Empress Ki disappears after her son becomes Emperor... I wonder if they will have her "disappear" with WY and go live "happily OTP ever after"... I hate to admit that I hope not BUT we all know how KDramas can be...... *sigh*

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Post by ahireasu » Mar 4th, '14, 13:50

In the beginning for me it was more like she was feeling sympathy for TH and not love,that went down the drain ofc after TH betrayal and the death of SN father.
I think that SN starts to feel confused and conflict between her feelings for her first love and TH, we see this happen since ep20? Or so when WY gave her the pin for her hair and she had flashbacks with TH before she wears it.

But like you said I am certain that they will show how awesome WY is and this "betrayal" of his will be another sacrifice he does for SN, ofc he will not say anything to her so she can follow her path as he told her before.

Yup the coolest tragic hero ..... Perfect to the point of making you puke,tragic etc.
lets not forget he is Korean so it is natural lol.

But anyway for me ep33 is the turning point,TH throw himself into the line of arrows with no concern of his well being, that's the first time I think that he did something like that (sacrifice himself for someone else) before he was always crying saying save me, spare me etc.
Let's hope SN sees this changes as they are and give TH a chance.

PS. EKI in reality was like 55 when she disappeared .

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Post by Issy » Mar 4th, '14, 18:55

well ep34 & 35 proves that people and their feelings can change. I never was a person who believed in first love nonsense and how that you can never love again if you already had your true love and soulmate then lost it.
TH has been through so many life changing/threatenning experiences and has proved his love to her. SN must have a heart of stone to not see it. But She already witnessing it and becoming aware of her changes of heart. She thought she only loves WY but came to realise that TH matters to her too.
I accepted her love for WY because the drama forced me to do so without showing me how and why and it looked more like SN fascination of her King. but with TH, I have seen every single step in this relationship. Obviously I will feel and root for them to be together at the end.
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Post by ahireasu » Mar 6th, '14, 18:56

Haha wow,
that could summarise ep34-35,when i said ep33 was for me the turning point for how SN sees TH i didn't expect a U turn on ep34, that was so sudden that my jaw dropped on the floor.

But all this can be blamed on the writers and their really BAD well writing, they dragged EKI up to ep33 with so much stupid and worthless crap (WY-SN love) and now they are running to close the gap in the last 16-17 episodes,this kind of rush script is really a turn off they could develop this drama so well in this 1 hour long 50ep,instead 33ep of draaaaggg with WY and now BOOM SN 2-3 days after she got drunk in TS tent while drooling for WY still and after rejecting TH in his tent she sleeps with him because he put himself between her and an arrow, wow great to go writers you blew me away....

Issy you are right WY-SN it was to me as well more kinda a admiration/love (love in tiiiiiny letters) rather than love,love.It wasn't a love at first sight,he saw WY before and want it to kick his butt if you remember,it was admiration for a man of justice this is how they depict him all the time,even in ep35 his ways are perfect seeing in men what no others can see blah blah blah and turns out to be right on top of it.... SN was fascinated by that nothing more.
On the other hand like i said on previous post we see SN even when she was ready to put the hair pin on her head(meaning she accepts WY as her man) she has flashbacks of TH meaning her heart and mind all ready wasn't there anymore (not the way it was before anyway) but she did not "listen" to them at that time,i don't remember if we had those kind of flashbacks before that, maybe we did but anyway,little by little TH won her heart (i believe SN wasn't aware of that) to bad the writers didn't invest more time on this side and instead over flood us with WY,SN instead but like i said with writers like that....
On ep35 now since the subs are out i will not put spoilers,something tells me that the nun has to be afraid of SN as well and not just TS,i wonder if SN will kill her or something to keep her baby safe(the WY,SN one aka Maha) and that is IF the nun manages to finish what she was saying in the end of ep35 (we can't leave that option out) either way SN finds out from the nun about the mark on the babies foot or she finds it out herself because the nun didn't manage to finish what she was trying to say i think it is safe(naaah) to say this baby will go to Korea :P or die in few eps from now.
I see SN trying to protect maha even from TH since for him this is the grandson of ET as he phrased it,well so many things happened in real life EKI and so very few episodes to catch up left thanks to the writers that i really don't know if we will see anything else beyond TH and SN marriage,maybe they will leave 2-3ep to sum it up in the end the korean way.

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Post by ahireasu » Mar 21st, '14, 20:08

After watching ep39 ending one thought came in mind

"damsel in distress,who you gonna call? Ghostbasters"ops wrong play :P ,

I bet my money on WY appearing out of nowhere and saving the day once again.

PS.The new empress is mind blowing on evilness haha.

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Post by Viande » Mar 21st, '14, 20:44

Oh yes, I'm putting my money on WY as well.

I'm more amazed how evil SN has become when someone gets on her way. How can this woman be so loving one moment and then enjoying torturing some servants the next moment. Empress Dowager is right, she's to be afraid of. She has TH wrapped around her finger and her hunger for power is no joke. Also, I think she herself caused this fear/hate against her. If she had not been Goryeo Goryeo Goryeo about everything then maybe they wouldn't be so scared that she'd betray Yuan. Not to speak of scheming behind their backs to get what she wants.

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Post by Issy » Mar 23rd, '14, 13:30

Haven't been on here for ages
Of course WY will save the day and say SN from evil Dangkise. TH is prisoned in the palace and SN sneaking behind his back meeting WY.
I have to say that I was super angry after watching ep39 because they are making TH back to his old habits again. I mean getting drunk and not being able to stand to Bayan and ED. saying this I totally see that he has no option but to obey as he's protecting SN from ED (Empress Dowager). she threatened him to throw SN out of palace and she can do it now that she has Bayan's support.
They spent too many eps on ET clan and Tanashili now they don't have enough time for Bayan's rise and new empress rise. they look like a secondary characters when they hold equal part in Empress Ki's story as ET and TN.
of course, all thanks to that stupid Novel and indecisiveness of writers between the novel and history. the most ridiculous part was TN falling in love with WY (of course she should, every other woman in Goreyo and Yuan have) and her last moments telling WY that she hates him and it's his fault (It's funny how TN blames everyone but herself for her end). It was laughable. together with that background music making her dying a heroic death when she was nothing but psychotic murderer. not to mention writing such a long speeches for on her last days. I don't know what writers were thinking of. I really hated TN's character near the end. she was not fun anymore but annoyingly stupid.
and now ED has turned crazy raising Maha as TH's son when she was the first person to doubt his paternity.
as friends have been saying, Empress Ki is no longer a sageuk but a soap opera. everything and anything goes.

:blink
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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » Apr 5th, '14, 04:54

I am truly going to hate when this drama ends! Once they got pass the WY/SN plot the show once again redeemed itself for me! Amazing how they have rewritten history however! This is complete fiction based very loosely on real characters.... But I am still having a wonderful time with this! And Ji Chang-wook's acting is really excellent! I have to give credit where credit is due!

I still believe that after all of this time SN has fallen for TH... If she did not then why would she be so concerned that he is "not looking at her the same way he used to". She wants him to love her.... And the insanity is a nice touch. IRL Toghun Temur in history is considered one of the top 10 insane rulers of China.... Ji Chang-wook plays that well as I am also seeing while watching "Five Fingers".

Somehow I still believe that they will sneak in the WY/SN OTP thing again :rolleyes: but for now I am back to enjoying this sow immensely! :)

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Post by MitsukaiKuroi2 » May 13th, '14, 03:56

I have to say that I am very happy with the way that this drama ended! Not the direction I thought they were going to take at all! And the pairing that I wanted ACTUALLY HAPPENED! :cheers:

Now I need to find another good one like this! What a great ride this was even when it dipped into areas I did not like for a bit it redeemed itself before it was over! Loved this! :wub:

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