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Faith (SBS, 2012)

Posted: Aug 20th, '12, 15:28
by darynrose
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Title: 신의 (神醫) / Shin-eui / Faith
Genre: Historical, romance, time travel, fantasy
Episodes: 24
Broadcast network: SBS
Broadcast period: 2012-Aug-13 to TBA
Air time: Monday & Tuesday 21:55

Synopsis
This drama shows the romance between a warrior from the ancient times and a female doctor from the modern times, their love transcending time and space. It will also tell the story about the process of making a true king.--HanCinema

Yoo Eun Soo (Kim Hee Sun) is a 33-year old plastic surgeon in the year 2012. She was originally a general surgeon, but quickly found that it was an overworked, under-paid profession and jumped ship to plastic surgery. Her dream is to someday open her own practice. But one day, Choi Young (Lee Min Ho) kidnaps her and takes her back to the Goryeo era because needing her medical skills. Their love story spans centuries but also warring beliefs. He gave up on love to be an unflinching warrior.

Posted: Aug 20th, '12, 15:43
by Issy
Thank you for making the thread Daryn
here are some of teasers

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tA9FhxIgbac" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y5t6vNMc2R0" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_fkIfyHoEV8" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OQNn-FFCRTA" frameborder="0"></iframe>

:wub:

Posted: Aug 20th, '12, 15:45
by darynrose
I was about to post it but you beat me to it. Hahaha... I assumed you have gotten back all ur senses now? *winks*

Beside puppy Min Ho. There is another puppy tht I like in Faith. This one,
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Fanvid for Faith,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPLv0Ulkg1M

OST sung by Ali, titled Carry On.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1kZxuQ2MlQ

Posted: Aug 20th, '12, 20:04
by Issy
Not quiet 8)
Me really loving the whole feeling about this drama. I love the chemistry between the mainccouple. It's adorable and sizzling despite the age gap. I really find them perfect next to each. No matter what netizens complaining about I just see it as perfect casting.
As I'm a hopeless romantic person, I'm hooked on it right now. Hope it doesn't disappoint later on

Posted: Aug 20th, '12, 20:32
by Jazzapple
I cannot express how much I...
The scenery and costumes are just breathtaking.
The beautiful music teared me up. The action scenes are pretty darn awesome.
I love our general's badassness. He's ruthless and nothing like a typical romantic hero, and that's the way I like it.

I'm quite loving this drama, and I'm really hoping that it doesn't get too melodramatic. I've seen a lot of Kdramas that started very well, but deeply annoyed me at the end because of the repetitive crying. (':

Posted: Aug 31st, '12, 20:37
by Ethlenn
Count this old fangirl too to be on board of Minhot support!!
And drama too.

Posted: Sep 1st, '12, 13:20
by darynrose
Jazzapple wrote:I cannot express how much I...
The scenery and costumes are just breathtaking.
The beautiful music teared me up. The action scenes are pretty darn awesome.
I love our general's badassness. He's ruthless and nothing like a typical romantic hero, and that's the way I like it.

I'm quite loving this drama, and I'm really hoping that it doesn't get too melodramatic. I've seen a lot of Kdramas that started very well, but deeply annoyed me at the end because of the repetitive crying. (':
Well, so far nothing IMO can be consider too melodramatic. I find it amusing whenever Eun Soo comes on screen. Which I look forward to her cranky antics. :lol Whiny but not tht annoying. Just yet.

I'm curious on how King Gong Min's character gonna develope in this drama and so does his love-hate relationship with Princess No Guk.
And now I wonder if Gi Chul has a thing for Eun Soo.
Let's enjoy few other fanvid for this drama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve5oDzLTLCQ

And this is for the violent noona *winks*, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajN5HegQmsk

Posted: Sep 1st, '12, 13:57
by Ethlenn
Violent nuna always appreciates vids of fighting men *winks*

Yes, I want to see this legendary love of Gongmin and Noguk, knowing what happened to him after her death. But since I'm only after 2nd episode (catching up real hard), all I see is a total as$hole not a beloved King and husband. Ryu plays his character wonderfully, to just add.

Posted: Sep 1st, '12, 14:02
by darynrose
Sometimes it does seems like Ryu is stealing the thunder in this drama.

Posted: Sep 1st, '12, 15:04
by Issy
darynrose wrote:Sometimes it does seems like Ryu is stealing the thunder in this drama.
He is actually! Specially in the last two eps. His king character starting to get in shape and getting very interesting.

Posted: Sep 2nd, '12, 18:59
by Ethlenn
So far I don't see our Queen falling for CY, but I do see Creep... erhm... Jang Bin falling for our feisty doctor.
Up to ep 6 I have no complaints about this drama, main music theme reminds me a little of main QSD theme, but only in few lines. Minhot improves with every drama plus he's hot, settings are nice, fight scenes nicely filmed, mini-cutie is freaking awesome. Me is pleased.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Posted: Sep 14th, '12, 15:10
by ziliey
I am in love with this drama!! Love the scenery , the costumes are to die for and I love the cast!! Everyone seems to be doing a perfectly good job and the story is amazing.. Has kept me hooked since day one. I just am dying to find out how the drama goes and I am enjoying every minute of it! I can't wait for the new episodes~!!! MInHo fighting!!! ^_^

Posted: Sep 16th, '12, 04:03
by shiofmedea
Just for me to be sure:
this is last king of this dynasty, is it? So according to real history events everybody dies and MinHo is the one with so called red grave? I am right, I am? Hmm.. at rather old age so .. and here my predictions:
he will just dispose her back one way or another (her time-sliding around to be accounted for .. let's say version 1- her trying to come back for him, version 2 him/her making mistake when sending her back (I just rememberd Sliders only it was alternative reality case there ) anyway I do not see so called "happy ending"
BTW if it is the king I am thinking about.. well the fall seems deserved so far, even if I can understand his decisions I would not have been able to be loyal to him and respect him. Which mean that I could follow orders if they were in favour of the country interest but if better option come I would not support him as a choice. His first decision is to make his possible greatest supporter loose his honor and potentialy life (with his people to witness it) and have some kind of symbol of power from person who should from now on plot to harm him and said general for their wrongdoings? Where is logic here? Of course plot is totaly against logic from now on (I just switched off part of my brain to still be able to have fun and watch it) or I am so petty and revange thirsty person here.. maybe I am.. but uhh.. I will be plotting rebelion in this doctor place and helping whoever :rambo: MinHo is not pretty enough to account for loosing hot water, aircondition, internet and well should I say MinHo :lol ? (ok I could live without this one but it sounds so good in this sentence :P )
I like the guy with flute or whatever musical instrument it is, it reminds me Japanese dramas with some ninja clans :lol
Still I really like to watch it.. why I read historical notes :glare: :cry:

Posted: Sep 16th, '12, 08:19
by shiofmedea
this king problem is that he expect people to automaticly trust hime which even under normal conditions is plain stupid. He did nothing to earn it and being king taking under account last events is kind of disatventage rather then bonus point here. And saying to Minho that he is his friend.. a little too much..
Still good fighting parts keep me here.. and MinHo is kind of cute in badass sense :whistling: and red woman entartaining. Pitty I saw better scheming in other period dramas so far.

Posted: Sep 25th, '12, 19:47
by shiofmedea
Umberto Eco! this is why people should read more

Posted: Sep 25th, '12, 21:34
by Issy
so I am trying to stay away from this thread because due to my unhealthy obsession with this drama, what ever I write might sound so biased to others.
but have to do some comments...

MinHo is not pretty enough to account for loosing hot water, aircondition, internet and well should I say MinHo ? (ok I could live without this one but it sounds so good in this sentence )
I have to ask, which min ho.are you referring to exactly? talking about this Minhot
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this one
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this one?
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ooor this one :P
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:lol
I am not really a die hard MinHot fan and really disliked him in BOF but I do believe he's alright. not to mention very HOT in Faith. :P but very true. I need my modern luxuries waaay more than a Hot daejung.

as for History and storylines, Yes, CY is the famous Choi Young with that red grave and as it is a fantasy drama, I really don't know how much they will twist and turn real historical events for sake of their storyline.
but me not expecting any happy ending like Queen Inhyun's Man by end of it. It's just doesn't fit both characters. they'll both stay or return to their own time.

This drama is not great. it has so many flows. bad editing and directing. repeated storylines and events keeps happening in circles. but still, I am so hooked on it and love it very much. somehow it has clicked with me and I can't wait for new eps each week. at the end of the day, it goes back to one's taste and what they find in any drama to keep them hooked or just watching. not every great drama or film is the best loved ones.

Posted: Sep 25th, '12, 22:16
by shiofmedea
I guess I use sarcasm to fight with myself as i am too totally into this drama as well.. and I can't point any rational reason.
MinHot (good name btw :lol ) went looong way in my heart as I hated him in BoF togather with drama itself. City Hunter helped a lot as I have soft spot for good ass kicking and Robin Hood kind of characters. Man needs to know how to fight! Then was PT - ghrrr! And ok he is hot here.. but shower is better in long run. I wonder if he will be expensive to transfer and keep in modern times.. :whistling:
And I do not watch it for him as above mentioned PT is still on my waiting for eternity list. On the other hand I started it only becouse I saw this in TV, gaped in it, hmm.. ok on MH to be true for like 15 mn trying to remeber where I saw this guy before (and wandering why I do not remeber this hot thing, there is something really wrong with my memeory) and then shouting City Hunter and shocking half of hostel. So I love historical dramas generally but it's nice to have nice body and face to look at. Love this period btw, clothes and hairs from Arang and Magistrate times.. well man should not look like that, no ofence, just my personal taste.
And I like fantasy and time travel implications even if it is kind of wasted here, it is so good motive to explore and they just skip it for court petty fighting and a bit of romance, ehh :glare:
And I agree no happy ending which breaks my heart (usually not the thing so yes I am too involved as well) for General, guy has bed luck with woman.

Posted: Sep 25th, '12, 22:34
by Issy
I guess there is no rational reason on why someone gets attached to Faith so much. :lol

Have to admit that I wanted to see this for MinHot (was not invented by me though) sake as he really improved in my eyes after watching him in City Hunter. but after starting Faith, I found myself watching it for all its romantic (sometimes is SO non-existent) stories about King and the Queen, CY and ES and now Flute boy and fire girl. not to mention I am a big fan of Yoo Oh Sung (loved the guy in Swallow the Sun) and his KC character is just so great to watch. As for its political scenes, seeing how childish is written, I'm just going through it very fast :whistling:

Posted: Sep 25th, '12, 23:32
by shiofmedea
yeh, you can just see why there will be end of dynasty here.. :roll
but still even if he is kind of cute (god I hate this word!) in his romance thing king is getting on my nerves all the time I prefer queen. To be honest killing Doc and putting blame on oponent will be best move for him.. even if it will kill drama :lol. The way he is playing his cards right now.. well let's just say they should focus on showing MinHo and romance as they are not experts in plotting here.
and this scene from ep13 where he is considering giving Doc up once again and keeping her becouse he is afraid MinHo will leave him.. uh! Not to mention bribe case. I will not comment on case itself, too stupid, but just small thing: it is quite big RED new box in sparse room, how he could not see it? And his leadership is lacking great time in organisation department which should be enough to fire him anyway, not manager material our General, sorry here!
btw I cant wait for next week how they gona resolve this new development..
watching it for all its romantic (sometimes is SO non-existent) stories about King and the Queen, CY and ES and now Flute boy and fire girl
Men are more involved here for sure, CY is falling hard and white hair guy (I love his hair :wub: ) is like lost (deadly too) puppy here and one sided I'm afraid. I love motive of music manipulation - so wuxia :thumright: and cool. Why nobody has wind power? I wonder if he will be killed in action,, I give it 80%.

Posted: Sep 26th, '12, 11:12
by shiofmedea
ah, our Doc logic is impresive! Even if she made a lot mistakes on the way and stupid ones, still I admire her Thanks but no thanks here. Staying in this world is no option and it is no brainer to come to this conclusion. She do not have power to survive and CY does not have power to protect her as well. Nobody has in fact she is too dangerous tool to keep as she is too much and not enough at the same time. In fact Prince of Court or whatever his title is strategy is the best one - use her to control gates and then dispose. Btw sad truth about such time travelers - with our selected knowledge, education focused on one subject and based on technology we do not know how really work we would not survive. Anytime I read novel or watch movie I examine myself and I realize that I know a lot but my specialization will be like nothing 200 years ago even. Maybe if I could find briliant scientist I could push technical revolution a bit but myself? No way! And 1000 years ago - miserable and unusfull. I suppose chemist could do better, if he has absolute memory and remember basics. In fact more simple education you would have the better for you. And some manual based profesions or artistic would be the best. Or close like architect maybe? So think a bit before going into vortex! And buy solar power device for your computer :lol

Posted: Sep 26th, '12, 13:10
by Issy
shiofmedea wrote: So think a bit before going into vortex! And buy solar power device for your computer :lol
Why would she need to buy a solar power device for her laptop or mobile (not even sure if they still work in those old Goreyo times) when she has a hot daejun with highly charged electric power at her service??? :P

Ok, so I am a bit pissed off today. sometimes ago I read on Soompi about a rumour that KHS's husband does not like her to do anymore romantic scenes with kissing...!today I read that it's not just rumours and they are actually true. She has been on tvN‘s talk show, “Taxi” earlier in the year and her husband was there too. he actually confirmed that and said"I can't forgive you if you do a kiss scene"

now here where my point start. I really do admire and respect actors/actresses who set some sort of boundaries with their acting career. I know it's their profession and some actually call it professionalism but in this career actors can go as far as there is. I don't agree with it and I don't see it life threateningly important in their career development. but this is my own personal opinion and you can disagree with it as you like.

for actors/actresses like KHS who have such limitation in choice of roles, this should be pointed out boldly so not to be casted in such roles. I really like KHS as an actress and this is my first time watching her in a drama and I see she is strong and capable actress. but if she is not putting her whole emotions in her character out of consideration for her husband, it's just unfair to viewers. she should have not accepted this role when she already know that it contains romantic storyline.

I know it's also unfair to her because nowdays there are plenty of younger ( and even worse) actresses who are there ready to fill her place any moment and maybe she would like to continue with her career and not retire just because she is married and have a child. but it's also unfair to viewers when they don't see a character withholding emotions because of their limitation and not because of their acting ability. I am not even demanding nudity or explicit scenes. we all know it won't be in drama like Faith. but I still want my OTP convince me on screen that they are in love with eachother.

MinHot is much less experienced actor comparing with KHS and yet, you are more or less can see his character is in love. but with ES, you are just confused. Romance between two leads has progressed greatly in ep13&14 and they were so lovely. but I can't keep thinking now if she really acting with her all or not. if they changing scripts to suit her or not...
well, let's just see what happens in future eps.

on a lighter note, is ES also a physicist, chemist, Mathematician ...she is doing all those calculations with numbers and hard formulas from Einstein and god knows which other scientist to find the time and place of heaven gate. do they also teach all these in high school or medicine school? she must be a genius then :scratch:

Posted: Sep 26th, '12, 13:58
by Ethlenn
Issy wrote:do they also teach all these in high school or medicine school? she must be a genius then :scratch:
Looks like we went to the wrong schools, hon :P

Regarding the "hubby ban". I think it's stupid. He's having some insecurity issues or what? He's unsure of her feelings for him?
She's an actress, and he KNEW about her profession when he married her, right? Actors act, and kissing a partner on screen is also acting (side-eyeing every real-life couple on screen now, ekhem). It doesn't mean she's developping any feelings for her partner in drama when she kisses him.
This is why the romance between CY and ES is so lukewarm. They will just hold hands and sleep on each other shoulders?

Her husband is a moron. You can quote me.

Posted: Sep 26th, '12, 14:13
by shiofmedea
Why would she need to buy a solar power device for her laptop or mobile (not even sure if they still work in those old Goreyo times) when she has a hot daejun with highly charged electric power at her service???
you still need:
- batery to store energy
- transformator which design must be properly calculated :P
I can design transformator .. probably.. building it in those times can be a bit difficult but could be done. Battery .. maybe.. chemistry is not my strong point
Laptop will work, why not? Not internet but device itself is undependent if powered... to first mulfunction of course..

It's good that MinHo has role of stoic warrior as puting on side his apparent hottnes his acting skills are not so great. Still not so bad, I can feel for him so not so bad but sometimes I wander if he is thinking something or just been said to stare this or that way and look good. Or the problem is in me and I am not sensitive enough.. hm.. :unsure:
KHS's husband does not like her to do anymore romantic scenes with kissing
really? Just my opinion but I think it is totally unfair to his partner! If you marry actress you can't expect har play nun roles or something, you accept all package. If you can't back off! If you put this statement after wedding,well, back off double time - it is just blackmail of the worst kind. I can't stomach such people. Nude scenes I can understand to some extend, not everybody is comfortable with showing his/her body and should not accept roles with such scenes. On the other hand if scene makes movie, is well made and valid and movie can make your name I would reconsider. But I was rised in different enviroment.
Moving to drama this is why I said males are more emotionaly involved here. I can't really say Doc feels for CY - too mixed signal. She holds back and I put it on logic on Doc side but after your post .. hmm... I am tempted to use world unprofesional on actress side. Let's hope it is all according to script and Doc still not decided what to do with her feelings. I would not too in her place. He is rude, demanding, has attitude problem, confict of priorities on-going, dangerous and demanding job, little power and money, powerful enemies, so called friends who can abonden him any time as nation interest come first, .. I can go on. The point is our times are happy and comfortable (in our part of world anyway) comparing to presented here and no man can compensate it not to mention that almost all woman were not much more than slaves then. Still it is fantasy so everything is possible.
I just wonder how they going to explain this notes from 1000 years ago at the end.If I was her I would think it over. It is not said that vortex is always going to her times. Maybe CY is better then wandering through different times over and over again?

Posted: Sep 26th, '12, 14:21
by Issy
quote me on this too. he's a moron and insecure and not trusting his wife.

I always wondered why the love is lukewarm in Faith. I am not blaming Minhot after ep13&14. I think he has getting better in his character. you could see in 1sp eps that he was there and he was not sometimes. but I can see the changes for better. KHS always was good in her character. very likeable and convincing except when it comes to showing love and affection to CY. That training scenes in ep13 could have been great but the look on ES killed the moment. as if she was afraid to show some love in return...

oh, I do think we have gone to wrong schools. why can't we figure out actual place of heaven's gate when we got all the formulas, calculators and books and infos online but ES can in goreyo time?....i feel total stupid now... :-(

Posted: Sep 28th, '12, 13:28
by shiofmedea
I can be unsensitive person but if I was on on CY place I would hear message: "Yes, I catch that you like me, even love me and I like you a lot too but it does not matter I made my mind from begining and this is not going to change it, I am going back. Deal with it you are not enough - end of story. " Not nice, not nice at all! Ah just a thought - strictly speaking what is presented here is stokholm syndrome waiting to happen (we want it to happen :whistling: ). He is kidnapper (docnapper :lol ) regardless of reasons and all events following, is he?
Anyway she is not into it, It is apparent from her acting It is not holding back it is just not being there. She is acting like very close friend aware of some fillings on other side and blocking it to avoid hurting said friend, nothing more. And this is act very well as rest of her character.
This touching shadow was a bit too cliche for my liking btw and the face he made about flower a bit strange (like caricature child saying "i'm not going to comment, you cant make me" :lol ) but rest of it.. yes, it was good.
oh, I do think we have gone to wrong schools. why can't we figure out actual place of heaven's gate when we got all the formulas, calculators and books and infos online but ES can in goreyo time?....
This is power of fiction :lol But I would say it should be some date which is important enough to be registered and at the same time recalculated in present times, better two, to calculate shift to some extend. Vortex was open for two days min so if it is standart minutes do not have any importance, if not diary should incorporate this info too (how long they are open). And sorry but this part of story is so weak that it pains my heart. What is this crap about documents in chineese she has? What about possible changes made later? Is callendar consitent from those times to today? I do not think so (but my knowledge of Korean history is close to nothing so maybe). She has notes from observation (how else will be minutes there) not from calculation as she is not Einstain. So she .. uh it does not make any sense however you try to explain it. We just need to switch part of brain which was well educated here to follow story. Once again - they use great start point for plot and ruined it great deal but "small" detail of total unprobability

Posted: Sep 29th, '12, 12:52
by Issy
btw and the face he made about flower a bit strange (like caricature child saying "i'm not going to comment, you cant make me" ) but rest of it.. yes, it was good.
you mean this? :P
Image
I found that pout was so cute. just like a child... :lol

I can easily say that minho is the one with less acting skills in the group. as I said before, sometimes you can see him in deep thoughts and makes you wonder if this is character or MinHot himself. but you can see that his improving by each week and his character getting stronger. I still think that he might be a bit young for such character. I mean his face is still too boyish to give you that strong, fearless daejung. but his action skills are really good and his face is just HOT. :P

now to ES character. you said that she looks as if she is not into it and not because she's withholding emotions. true! I don't feel that she's into romantic side of her character. as a good actress, she needs to act being in love with no problem. not every actor and actress play a perfect love partners when they are in love in real life. of course, if they are you can feel more than usual chemistry between them and makes you wonder but as good actors atleast they should get this point through viewers.

I feel that KHS is good enough actress to play a character in love. at least much more than Minho. so If minho has managed to show this side of his character and KHS could not, then what it tells you? doesn't tell you that she is not giving her all for some reasons?
let's just say that her character is that kind of women who are really clueless when it comes to love matters (this is hard for me to accept too because you naturally expect a character like CY be more clueless about love than 30 something old woman from 2012) so let's see when she realise that she is in love, how her acting will change?

and yes, as I am in unhealthy obsession with Faith, I do want this case of stokholm syndrome to happen too. I think we all do...well, the ones who are interested in this OTP of course. :lol

btw, glad to find out that ES is not that "clever". it took her hours of studding all those data to discover those numbers where dates and times... :scratch:
and those finger licking scenes while reading those pages were just too exaggerated. she was doing it even the pages were already separated.

Posted: Sep 29th, '12, 17:05
by Peggy
Just started this. Not really an admirer of the actress. She even looks different in her face now. I think this story should not have love affair between warrior and doctor at all. There should be a beautiful Korean girl who is affianced to him from the getgo. That should be the emotional side and she would be a thorn in the side of the doctor all the way. More interesting and cause mischief. Actresses' husband is a nitwit. Why marry her if he does not trust her in love scenes in make believe dramas????

Posted: Sep 29th, '12, 17:55
by Issy
Oh dear Peggy , nice to see you here 8)

Me first time watching KHS in a drama . I like her acting but as you said, she shouldn't have been the love interest in here. The more love storyline between the two progresses, the more I doubt if she's going to convince me that she's really in love with him. There is some thing with her acting

Well, it is very obvious that I am watching it for sake of Hot daejung. Yes! I'm shallow :P

Posted: Sep 29th, '12, 23:27
by shiofmedea
We all are :-(

As I can't approve of
1. SF part of plot - so weak,
2. main actress - romance part,
3. romance part - main actress
all which (who) remains is LMH .. so where it started it ended - in looking as LMH kicks bad guys asses and all and any other of his actions in between

Posted: Sep 30th, '12, 22:52
by Issy
well, truth to be told, I really like every character in here. There is no annoying character in Faith and every actor doing a really good job with their role. even KHS doing a really good job as a Dr from 2012 and her bubbly and alive character. It's just her romantic role that is lacking a bit and not very convincing sometimes.
A better writing, better directing and editing with better special effects would have made this drama one of the best.

I love and adore every King's scene, RDH is doing an amazing job with his character. I just can't take my eyes of him whenever he is on my screen and god , how much I adore the bromaance between him and CY. can I say that there is a great chemistry between RDH abd LMH? :lol much more than King & the queen or CY and ES... :P

so to be honest, It's not only LMH... It is LMH, RDH, YOS, all the wooldachis, ... who are keeping me hooked on Faith... so maybe I am not that shallow after all :lol

Posted: Oct 1st, '12, 19:34
by shiofmedea
King's uncle just went to first position for my current ranking for most liked character here. :wub: well most admired more as not much to like here :lol Guy with virtualy no power just by pure manipulation and cleverness is on stright path to throne. Love this guy :w00t:
Problem with plot here is that they just move too quickly, in real situation you build power and then move not put every good idea in motion without establishing some background.
Yes characters are good and played well but I can't fall for weak king.. and he is weak. His general has more political intuition then him. The plot with seal was not so bad at the end but in fact he should think it through the moment plot of stealing it was known. He put some gestures to anounce his indepentency from China why keep seal? But to have it stolen is different thing and sign of weakness, I agree. Well done Uncle! All actors in proper places, even CY. I almost wish guy the best. I suppose our noble CY will save the day once again but.. uncle would be not so bad alternative and for sure he is more clever than king and have a lot of patience as well.
but once again yes actors are saving this drama weak plot. And characters are well described and played. Even bad guys are quite.. well maybe not likable but I like them a lot. From Ki Cheol (who I thought will be more evil but is quite amusing with his obsesion and only person thinking in long terms but for somebody interested in collecting hearts not so good judge in characters) and his court and assasins (CEJ is quite funny with his interaction with ODM? this cute guy always tagging after CY?) to my actual favorite uncle (he is real person as well, is he?) I do not like king but only becouse he is not matching my image of king, he still makes interesting character. Very human thats for sure.
Just thought: MinHo character is to some level the most difficult. And thats is becouse it is the most simple one. Trauma in past, cold warrior, change, honor/duty and love in conflict - standart. For this he is doing quite well not overacting it. If not for historical books (you can't be so off the real life? :scratch: ) I would say he will be killed at the end.
BTW her finding solution in dream means they are not going to explain me about notebook? I protest! I need somethink to make fun of :P

Posted: Oct 1st, '12, 19:45
by Ethlenn
I feel the urge to defend the King as a loyal fangirl would.

He came after years being a political hostage at the court that ruled all continental Far East then. Worse - he came with Mongolian Princess as a wife, so naturally he's treated with reserve and distrust. And of course no political support at all. his actions seem random and unsure, but even with such weak script it's easy to see how he forges himself into a ruler.
He should have been born in different times, though...
Ah, whatever, the king is awesome.

Plus, it's not China we're dealing with, but Yuan, Yuan was Mongol dynasty and Mongol are not Chinese. next dynasty, Ming, is Chinese. And after that we'll have Qing, last Manchu dynasty.

Posted: Oct 1st, '12, 20:21
by shiofmedea
but still they ruled part of country which is China as well now, did they? So you can say they were Mongol dynasty ruling China Empire after conquest, can you? Or there was additional kingdoms then (country was divided)? Is this around the same time as Three Kindoms era?

I said I find king interesting and very human and I understand his background. And we do not see really how his status as Mongolian apointee is issue here. Even CY said that as he is like whatever number in 10 years people do not care anymore. More so plot with seal suggest it is better to live in peace with Yuan from common sense point of view. The problem is not in fact in external circumstances but with person himself. He wants well, I agree but he is unsure of himself and his methodes are (it is difficult to describe what I mean :scratch: ) selfish and selfdestroying .. is even such word? What I mean is that he is not thinking it through enough and I have a feeling that spoiled prince is behind scene all the time. Like "how he can do it to me?", "it should go like this" and he expect before giving something from himself. And especialy becouse of his situation he should not. He makes politicaly dangerous play without securing position, put people (and he does not have them a lot) in unnecesary danger and after things are going down as you should expect he grasps situation to some level but usually damage is already done to him and even more to people around him. Even his favore is not well thought through. He creates enemies by not balancing it well. You play carefully with enemies but even more with allies. You cut them if you see they are problems or stroke their fethers but not insult them and still keep close. No people skills, he can't go on like this, good intentions are not enough.

Posted: Oct 1st, '12, 21:12
by Ethlenn
China empire was conquered by Yuan, therefore - no more China empire, but Yuan empire. I know it's easier for our own usage, but I bet Mongols wouldn't be that happy if they heard we call their empire "China" just because they established it on chinese land. Mongols were quite ruthless.
Plus, the term "China" is handy but very impractical historically.
You play carefully with enemies but even more with allies.
You know what they say, keep your enemies close but your friends closer. Our King has yet to learn this fact.

Posted: Oct 1st, '12, 22:03
by Issy
I do feel bad for the king. he's young, with no experience and have big dreams. not to mention weak in every way you look at it. not much money or capital, no big army to support him, no influential officials to back him up and his crown constantly under threat. they all make up for his lack of confidence and self esteem. that's why he always asks if his subjects love him and want him as their king.

on the other hand, even though his uncle maybe much more clever than him but at the same time ruthless and evil. poisoning ES in order to make all his plans come true with CY's hands and no one else is very clever idea. specially when he knows how the king depends on him in almost everything and how much he trusts him. the genius idea is to give the antidote only little by little to CY to insure his own and his plans safety. even KC did not use this trick as he didn't want to harm ES in any way.

uri hot daejung made me swoon so much over his romantic gestures today but he only got only a little back in return though. as usual...but it seems that ES is the great Hwatta herself. she must have gone back to present and found a way to return to past (obviously for CY's sake) and missed some hundreds time-travel-years stops on her way.

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 07:40
by Ethlenn
It dawned on me to take a look at hanja that the title is written, thinking that maybe this "faith" refers to what every King needs towards his subjects and vice versa.

Turns out 神醫is not "faith", but "godly doctor". "Faith: is pronounced the same but written differently in hanja: 신의 [信義,神意,宸儀].
There goes my theory about deep streak of bonding between King - All People Around in this drama.

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 17:23
by shiofmedea
talking about writings - what she wrote in diary during vision? Did anybody catch that? Is it some reference to this 1 month to gate's opening?

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 19:22
by Issy
shiofmedea wrote:talking about writings - what she wrote in diary during vision? Did anybody catch that? Is it some reference to this 1 month to gate's opening?
This is from joonni recaps by softy
“I desperately hope that this will reach you.Earnestness/longing heart creates a link/connection.Only recollection/memories will make that moment come true.”

ES has written this as a reminder to do something next time she is in goreyo and it's obviously to do with CY. 8)

and apparently still some serious editing,cutting or even not filming still happening with CY and ES skinship scenes mostly in ep15 ...God knows how many more scenes like this have been omitted from the original script..gooosh, I am SUPER ANNOYED! :cussing: :cussing: :cussing:

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 21:16
by shiofmedea
I wrote so long post and I just lost it :cussing:
so summary:

Thanks Issy for explanation!

SF building up and making things more and more confusing as always with time travel. :crazy: As we have already two warnings question is if she goes in circles? Even if not (she put those two just to be sure and she prevented his death first time too - I make assumption that ther is stil a lot episodes to go and last warning is about coming events as next episode) still it's like Greek tragedy crossed with this series of movies where death is trying to return balance by killing people whose death was prewented (can't remember title :scratch: ) whatever you do events are repeating themselves. So will be 3rd one in the end? I thought few episodes ago that him dying and her going back will be elegant solution but not anymore when it looks like sequel waiting to happens with time travel crusaid to prevent his death.. please do not make it this way or I will never ever watch fusion drama again :glare:

For record she is playing according to script and not falling for him still (or not actively aknowledge it) but if so her actions are cruel and she is just leading him on. Not nice :glare:
And this is becouse of this husband thing? If so Ghrr! :cussing:

And I still like Prince D aka Uncle. Playing so well with so little? And he win me totally reading my mind and killing King Advisor (no use for him anymore, dangerous and.. well.. I just hate him from beginning :P ). If not for CY forcing his hand and being way too clever (please, guy is like 29 but spent his youth in military spec op not learning politics and was not involved before so why is he so natural in this game? he even know when to be stay put, when to use brutal force and when to be smooth, if it was Japan he would make great shogun. It is pitty he is loyal one, he deserve better times and king)
btw they started to read my mind now as I thought they should just poison Uncle (but in more subtle way for sure) and it happened :D And plot started to be more interesting .. what id 3rd item? What do you think?

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 21:42
by Issy
remember the dates on her diary? I think that she goes back to 2012 after a month as she predicted after one month but somehow finds the portal to heaven's gate and keeps going back to past but in different timing than CY's lifetime. that's why she has left that note for herself as a reminder to do when she meet CY.

right now that she is with CY is her first time in the past and goreyo time. at the moment, she really can't remember what and why she has done all things written in the diary because it has happened in her future. but as she actually has travelled to an earlier time, all those memories are subconsciously stored in her mind too. am I even making sense right now?... :scratch:

back to those scenes... now I can't take "the fact that ES suppose to be such a reserved person and never really loved a person truly" seriously! 1st ep definitely did not give me this impression of her. so is this true to the script or for hubby's approval?

Posted: Oct 2nd, '12, 22:36
by shiofmedea
I would say changes in script due to Husband case but who knows? She looked emotional but she said she do not need husband really, she needs somebody to give/lend her money in this last part of first episode! So her first love left too many scars and cased her to close to feelings? She gets scared so she finds reason to not start or to leave before she is too involved? But there is not much support for this theory so far, her words only. Maybe they read some comments and wanted to explain themselves to viewers :scratch:

Yes I agree that for her it is first loop so this is she do not remember but as past happened already we do not know how many times she interfered as even if it is in past still it is in future. Confusing.. What I mean is that she could go through all this gates written in diary and note it and we know she disappeared by going through portal from the story at the begining so she can appear any time if we assume that that one was last in scripted - it needs to as she left diary. We know she left warnings so something will happen and - here comes paradox - if it will not becouse of warnings there will be not warnings and her going to past so it should happen :lol If we omit this as too confusing for plot she need to go to make diary so she could prevent future as her past traveled self knows it. In this case as we know she disappeared logic says she needs to appear somewhere. Next vortex is in 67 years so she can go to 2012 from this 1000 years in past or she can come to drama time exactly at the same (or a bit later so they not colide with each other :lol ) time her present self will be going to write said diary. Am I making sense here? :scratch: In this case it should be happy ending :whistling: or not if she will :twisted: die protecting him :lol
You should not manipulate time!
But those memories should not be here, theory do not allow this .. but for purpose of drama let's say time trevel disturb linearity so she absorbed this as distortion in timespace caused by her own actions. And better explanation of writting it is just to make herself belive jurnal. btw funny thing is that as she was here before you could think that she wrote in her diary exactly what she remember that she read when in reality we need to assume that first time for her past self there should be no diary at all as if it was it would mean we are back to time loop. :thumright:

ah! one more thing if her vision is true and she prevent it now and it will not be left to end it does not make sense with one travel and first time theory becouse it means time intervention and each one change events so can be prevented only once in time loop. Her duel intervention do not count as she had not visions before.

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 18:40
by Issy
:doh: oh dear, my head just hurt too much to even start thinking about time paradox.
Let's just see how they are going to solve this. And as usual, whenever it gets too much to take in or too silly, I just stare at hot daejung's face :wub:
:mrgreen:

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 21:03
by shiofmedea
ah, I can't catch everything without subtitles help so only now:
:lol Mata Hari operation! Does she know end of that particular story? And who is interested in her beauty here (maybe with exception of CY)?
Speaking of CY is he finaly disappointed in her?
I am starting to be a bit tired about this drama and I hate waiting every week for next portion of melodrama but:
1. still want to know how they are going to explain her complicated time travel trips back and forth in time (and I know I will be like :rofl: after that)
2. how much they are going to change orginal historical events
3. what is 3rd item in box (camera with infinite battery ? gun? CY related I think but how? to defend him? to recognize him? but seriously how it is going to work? and be impossible to describe?)
4. never ending pleasure of watching fights
5. the most important: never ending pleasure of watching CY fight.. ok generally watching CY


:goggle: I just noticed something: it is first drama in long time there is no secondgirl/boy involved :party: they manage all drama by themselves :roll

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 21:30
by Issy
I just found a new OTP to worship. uri hot daejung and the queen. my sincere apologies to the king but these two had some chemistry from the start and now in ep16 is just so damn good. the moment he came to save her and she looked relieved and happy to see him. 8)


:mrgreen:

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 22:20
by Ethlenn
This fangirl is on ep 15, but feels the need to defend her OTP, namely King-Queen.
Queen is happy and grateful for CY for saving her, so she can be WITH the King!! :wub:
I haven't seen the CY - Queen chemistry at all...

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 22:42
by Issy
Ethlenn wrote:This fangirl is on ep 15, but feels the need to defend her OTP, namely King-Queen.
Queen is happy and grateful for CY for saving her, so she can be WITH the King!! :wub:
I haven't seen the CY - Queen chemistry at all...
the fangirl then should watch ep16 before objecting to my point .. I didn't say great chemistry all long but the one or two scenes they were in together....in any case, I know you won't see my point....so.... :glare:

and there was some attraction from the queen in early ep to CY btw. It was probably to show the king gets jealous...but there was something in the air...it was so obvious... :whistling:

Posted: Oct 3rd, '12, 22:58
by shiofmedea
I just found a new OTP to worship. uri hot daejung and the queen
to be honest I thought there will be some triangle with queen at the begining too. She was so obviously in awe of him and gratefull but scenes with king kind of killed it. And when king showed interest as well I put this ideas aside. Anyway CY or rather MinHo has this kind of intense look that it is difficult to interpret :lol

Posted: Oct 4th, '12, 16:35
by Ethlenn
This fangirl tried to act like a fangirl and give statement without watching (cause that's the rule). Anyway, after ep 16, I still ship King and Queen.
*disappears like a mist at the daybreak psssss*

Posted: Oct 4th, '12, 17:56
by Issy
So she is going with Mata Hari idea for real??? :blink

Who on earth she wants to seduce and which idiot is going to buy her act?

Posted: Oct 4th, '12, 20:52
by shiofmedea
You just catch up? I almost killed myself laughing :rofl: And not forget how this story ended.

And BTW - you do realise that CY is buying it all the time? LOL :whistling:

Posted: Oct 4th, '12, 21:04
by Issy
shiofmedea wrote:You just catch up? I almost killed myself laughing :rofl: And not forget how this story ended.

And BTW - you do realise that CY is buying it all the time? LOL :whistling:
oh no, I saw it but I thought it's one of her none-sense talking again and didn't take it seriously. but I saw a picture of her in strange clothing and realised that she really means it. :blink

well, it's not only poor CY to be honest. everyone is buying it. :P

Posted: Oct 4th, '12, 21:34
by shiofmedea
Court Prince and Uncle Prince are not.. I hope.. One wants Heaven World second wants to have back-up from first one. She is just key to this for them. Only CY wants just her.. poor (and blind) guy :cry:
And if her education in plotting is based on KDrama :pale: .. well, she better stops like just now

Posted: Oct 6th, '12, 02:15
by Peggy
Apologize for being rock in the middle of the road, but I have not seen this drama yet. However, I have to ask question which is really bugging me. Is this King who married Mongolian Princess the same one in that drama 'Shindon;' which was so marvellous. sorry to be a nuisance but I want to sleep tonight.

Posted: Oct 6th, '12, 09:17
by Ethlenn
Yes, Peggy, the same King.

Posted: Oct 6th, '12, 18:16
by Peggy
Thank you Ethlenn, After seeing small scenes I must say different dramas and different directors see things in different ways.
I think Shindon is in no harm.

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 00:56
by shiofmedea
I did not saw this one.. how is king shown there?
Anyway here we have pure fiction I guess

for this week comment: it looked quite hot for one moment then they changed angle and we are back to standart.. What was this last sentence CY said by the way?

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 01:37
by Issy
shiofmedea wrote:I did not saw this one.. how is king shown there?
Anyway here we have pure fiction I guess

for this week comment: it looked quite hot for one moment then they changed angle and we are back to standart.. What was this last sentence CY said by the way?
“Because there is no other way…” 8)
so you see? his move was tactical not just sudden burst of emotions but then who cares...
this ep made me swoon in so many ways and all thanks to uri hot daejang. oh, and I also fainted by the last scene because it was totally unexpected and so out of CY's character.

and it seems that KHS has ignored her hubby's opinion and finally...even though CY did all the hard work and she still looked abit uncomfortable to be honest :P

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 01:49
by shiofmedea
If it was in emotion it would be totally out of character here I think. This is why I wanted to know exactly what he said, it looked like calculated move. And typicaly bold one I must say (CY tactical move - frontal atack :lol ). I just wander what is punishment for making out with royal (-ish) just to be bride. Death? Slavery? dismembering.. uh.. some vital parts.. :whistling: And for her as well.. How they are going to avoid this?
Very uneven episode btw, once again weak plot but good tension everytime CY on screen, scene with him taking steps and demanding explanation was even better then last one. I am realy interested in next episode. This drama is driving me crazy, unhealthy obession I would call it!

Uncle burned last page.. I have bad feelings about that

To be honest it looked as she was catch in the moment and by surprise and then rememberd herself, opened her eyes, stoped responding and went blank.. kind of ruined moment a bit as I started analyzing and stoped enjoing moment myself.

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 06:55
by Issy
Yes it's calculated and tactical because he still believes ES has no feelings for him and just wants to go back. I want to see ES's reaction to make up my mind. She can't push him away to protect him after this because CY will be charged with attacking a royal bride to be, assault...so she has to play along too. If she thinks this through properly.

As for those scenes, in pictures they looked perfect so could it be a horribly done editing job? If not, KHS, you are such a mood killer :glare:

And I have to agree with all tension present whenever CY is around. We atleast for us... :lol


Welcome to insanly obsessed Faith watchers club. We have another member (who started this thread) but on holiday and be back very soon.

My Mondays and Tuesdays have been total waste of time since this obsession started. :glare:

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 07:13
by shiofmedea
Does it matters if she push him or not? Assult is assalt anyway and she can be punished with him or not depending if they saw it as treason from her part as well. So it's matter of good explanation only ("I was here first", "Heaven gave her to me" ???) ... and having backup in numbers of armed man behind to add to argument :whistling:

Saddly it's not matter of feelings, it's that whatever they are here or not she is going back anyway. And this decision, he agrees to be the best one.
My Mondays and Tuesdays have been total waste of time since this obsession started
Add Wednesday when there are subtitles ready and I watch second time to check if I undersood well... eh.. and I will be late home today!

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 07:33
by Issy
It does because he won't be the only guilty party in here. If she pushes him away it means she is disagreeing with his act and he's the sole offender here but if she plays along, they say they both are in mutual attraction. making him less guilty.

Btw, did you also find that hugging scenes was kind of ruined with what came after that? CY meeting with the king with no implication of what happened next? He stormed in, DH backed off and burned some diary papers, they argued and CY pulled her in a tight hug. So? What happened next? Every one is pretending nothing of important happened night before. I was expecting totally different mood. Is this a poor writing and execution or what?

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 16:37
by shiofmedea
were they so fair in those times? You know those Other party is always guily somethow? Especialy if it is woman? And should not bride be pure especialy in high class arrangements.. maybe not this country and age and she is not young anyway

You are right, I was a bit surprised as well. Mood was obvious, you do not put such acts with friend only does not matter how close, and then.. cut, rewind, let's start once again from another concept ... hm .. hug was good but lets'rise it a bit.. and we have last scene. Then somebody made mistake and use first concept linked with second one.. It's obviously not true but this is how it looks like.
I do not understand meaning of scene with wonder woman and white hair guy as well. They went, they backed off and.. what? To check security? Nonsense.
And plan for killing king linking with wedding, well, I do not even want to start :crazy:

going home to check next episode..

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 17:49
by Issy
Ok, watched ep18 online and then raws. As much as ep 17 made me swoon, faint and die by its last scene, ep18 made me equally sad, depressed and a bit annoyed. Don't get me wrong, it was a very good and strong ep but the turns of events were sad for my liking.
Here comes the cycle again. DH and his repeated poison use. I am bored and fed up with it already. Can't he just use a different killings method or trick? And this time has no antidote.

And finally, it took 18eps for KHS to give me a satisfactory expression of emotions. Be it her fault or script fault, it shouldn't have taken this long. I really loved all ES and CY moments together in this ep. They were sad, sweet and convincing enough for me.
I hate to say this because I do want to drool all over uri hot daejang in as many eps as can get but I think Faith Would have been better with 16 or maybe 20 eps the most. This way, storyline won't keep getting into circles.

Now they going to be on the run from from Yuan too. Let's see how this will end.

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 19:03
by shiofmedea
raws only

my thoughts in order
kiss scene - ah, they should presented that cut from begining, way better
my question answered - so it was survay - still not making sense when everybody was allowed
arrested once again - he should have booking on this cell and start digging or something - he always ends there so he can be prepared, ne? :P
one more thought on prison part: he is making career out of it as well - prison, promotion, prison, promotion, .. I lost count it should be prison once again I think?
Poison once again :blink something more imaginative please!
First victim from my favorites.. but seeing CY sad was more heartbreaking somehow :cry:
King looked positively jelous when CY declared that Doc comes first
CY is like Gray Eminence here, lurking behind when King is around and subtly smirking when his enemies got what they deserve and commanding and sexy when dealing with them on his own (this "faster, faster" made my day, I swear! :thumleft: ). Him puting legs on table and start reading - wow, how domestic :lol

he was reading documents before so hardly surprise here but .. he can read so he could helped her with texts on data shift btw..

and yes, now they started to show good interaction not overdoing it at the same time. And she first time expressed willingness to consider staying... and of course backtracked few second later :cussing:

and once again big final - new enemy.. again.. What will be next? Segal and Time Cops? :roll

They are starting to chase in circless, shorter is better sometimes hard to disagree.. still this new enemy seems resourceful of his (rather man arm it was but shouldn't we have woman as enemy for contrast now?) own so I am going to give him a chance, the fight between CY and somebody who can catch arrow (the slowest I ever saw :whistling: ) should be interesting
CY fighting! :lol

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 20:29
by Issy
yes, as I thought, the kiss scene was a badly edited scene in ep17. you can see the difference in ep18 and makes more sense...

I have been wanting for them to run away together since beginning and now they give it to me when she's all sick and poisoned. not fair...but atleast now I know they have a proper interactions of romantic kind.

I always thought that ending would be the one with ES goes back to 2012 and CY stays behind in Goryeo. I really don't know how some people on other forum expecting a happy ending with both of them travelling back to 2012. this is no Queen Inhyun's Man drama. I will actually disappointed to bits if this really happens. it won't be realistic ending. CY can not come to 2012 to stay for rest of his life.
unless ES finds the right antidote for her poison (now that she will be on the run with CY, this chance is getting minimum) she is as good as a dead person so she has to return. even if she doesn't want to, I am sure that CY would be the one who pushes her into heaven's gate ... :P

and yes! so sad about that wooldachi's death :cry:

ps. I kill them if they dare to harm other 4 cute wooldachis left in next eps. :cussing:

Posted: Oct 9th, '12, 22:01
by shiofmedea
I kill them if they dare to harm other 4 cute wooldachis left in next eps.


Count me in! I will go ninja if they do it!

but.. my version would be him dying and pushing her through gate but as we do not want to mess with history.. at least fighting so we are left in suspence. Then thay can add some scena with school script to asure us that he lived long and not so happy ever after.

people are overoptimistic and unrealistic really! If he goes who will win all those wars? Her staying has more sense but still we have Hawata issue. He going to 2012? No option for me. If so I am going to ignore ending totally!

Court Prince is loosing it btw. Has he history or obession or something? He will go more mental and he will be real danger here. Uncle prince lost my interest the same moment he lost his cool. I hoped for more from him :-(

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 10:39
by Issy
It downed on me last night when I was watching ep18 with subs that how useless and helpless the king was on his own. I am not only talking about Gongmin here but in general so please don't kill me for saying this.
Just for the king to be in power, how many innocent lives had to be taken. Its so sad but that's how the world works. Since early ages till now...sigh!

As for the ending, I also see that CY has to die too. Otherwise, why on earth she comes back again and leaves notes on how to prevent all incidents that will endanger his life. But then CY had to die in last DH plot against his life but she prevented it using the notes so that makes us go back to first place of CY is alive, so why leave the note later on? :scratch:

People call this drama bore and sucking. I agree that is not a best of dramas and it has so much flaws but at least I did connect to it in some ways and still love to watch and follow the story. I guess everyone see a drama with different eyes and from different point of view. Thank goodness for different tastes between us people!

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 20:11
by shiofmedea
well, to this day connections are the power and no man is island but there were kings powerful on their own to some level. But of course it is easier if dynasty was stable and well connected in balanced aliances without power hungry siblings and too fast growing children and tendency to scandalous life, let's add well established middle class to balance aristoctrats, good economy to prevent low class to rebel and inteligent and strong character for king and it should be no much reason for people to die for king.. wow it seems like political paradise or something :lol
But on serious side, this is why he has this moments of hestitation if he should start. He decided but I do not think he understood at that moment how much will it cost. And this is his weakness as well becouse once he started the more he weawer more people die no less.
What I see is problem in times like that is the people who die are usually the best one. Common one survive, those too cowardly or weak to stand up against unjustice, too stupid to see it, whatever reason at the end not the best one are those who build on ruins and that is one of reasons that history is repeating itself.

Back to the ground:
It is not so easy, remember paradox I mentioned before. As we see notes it mean that even if it is first loop for Doc for history it is second so there is still possibility for her to end loop by saving him.
Think like this
First loop: she went, her appearence disturbed flow of events we see in books and he avoided some close calls (those we saw already) but at the end he died. She went back but his death influenced time so vortex lended somewhere/sometime else. She put together notes to prevent this happening and assured that they would be passed through generations to Court Prince. Let's forget her last trip through vortex now
Second loop: she come, found notes, prevented his death (can be given as he is living long life in her memory of historical events), she goes back or not does not matter much as she returned events to proper path.
this theory ignore fact that in every version Heavenly doctor and incidents we saw during few last episodes should be registered but let's not be too petty here :lol
So there is the chance for him.
And to complicate it even more: The one from first loop could go back to future after second loop Doc was taken so we have total balance (plus one doctor with CY). If we are really bed people we can additionaly kill second loop (drama time) Doc in process of saving CY, have consisten (more or less) story and still heartbroken CY ready to fight everybody with nothing to loose. :blink I am bad person ..

I still not decided which version is better - one from my previous version of possible events with CY dying or this one. Time travel is flexible enough.

There was very interesting book which taken as a staring point theory that Germany and Japan won III World War. I do not know Korean history enough but I wonder if those times were important enough. Dynasty will change anyway so even if they mess up it is not like flow of events would be affected much? Or I just commited huge sin saying this? Korean alphabet is 4-5 kings ahead am I right?

It does not have good rantings, doesn't it? I agree that plot is weak and villians could be better but it has something to keep me glued to computer. :wub: It is just difficult to explain what it is. There are good dramas that almost everybody loves (and no so good too - BBF :nuts: ) but I find boring to death or anoying, so it does not bother me that this time it is oposite. I like this one, end of story.
Uh, MinHo helps or rather CY helps as I rarely base my preference of actor himself rather appearence in certain drama (with two exceptions but MinHo is not one of those)

One more reflection after rewatch ep 18: CY may be bold and harsh in his politics but he would made better king for such times, iron hand + inteligence seems to work better then king's attempts in ploting and safe moves.

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 21:47
by Ethlenn
shiofmedea wrote: I do not know Korean history enough but I wonder if those times were important enough. Dynasty will change anyway so even if they mess up it is not like flow of events would be affected much? Or I just commited huge sin saying this? Korean alphabet is 4-5 kings ahead am I right?
1. It's not only change of the dynasty, that happens (unless we're in Japan, when this happened up until 7th century), but more broad image - the protecting the whole country and its independence against hostile neighbour who wants to incorporate it. Change from Goryeo to Joseon is not a simple change from one dynasty to another, but also strenghtening the position as NOT the subjects of Yuans and later Mings.
2. King Sejong is fourth king of Joseon, yeah.
3. There is a few novels regarding this alternative: "Vaterland", "Man from the High Castle", "And all the King's Men",

wiki has a nice list of an alternate history fiction books :lol

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 22:05
by shiofmedea
You made me curious. Does it mean that this king here was important in general flow of history? Sorry but it is rather difficult to find more then short messages which gives no view on general picture. Maybe you could recomend me something to read on this part of history or generaly on Korean history and interactions with Japan and China? Your comments indicate that you know subject well (better then me for sure). I read a lot about Japan but it is easier to found.

Yes, I read them and some others, I am huge fan of SF, political one especialy.

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 22:40
by Issy
oh dear, all these loops and vortex and paradox is making my brain like this right now :goggle:
It does not have good rantings, doesn't it? I agree that plot is weak and villians could be better but it has something to keep me glued to computer. It is just difficult to explain what it is. There are good dramas that almost everybody loves (and no so good too - BBF ) but I find boring to death or anoying, so it does not bother me that this time it is oposite. I like this one, end of story.
Uh, MinHo helps or rather CY helps as I rarely base my preference of actor himself rather appearence in certain drama (with two exceptions but MinHo is not one of those)
same here! I am watching Arang and everyone is praising it to highest level. I love it too and I think it is one of the best ones I have seen so far but still, I watch it every week when subs are out, I can wait a day or two for its subs and I'm ok with it. but with Faith, let's just say there is some sort of insane obsession with it. from watching live, then raws...

atleast, we are not pretending or believing it's the best of shows and it's perfect in every sense like some fangirls do

as for MinHoT, there is something very appealing about his face when he is angry, serious or sad (he's childishly cute when he laughs to the point of me thinking that's not how CY suppose to look like). I am hopelessly in love with characters like CY in any given sageuk. it's my weakness...can't help but falling in love with such characters...I always do. seriously, my most favourite Korean actors always have won me over by their appearance as such characters in sageuks. starting from Oh Jiho to Ji jin Hee, Ji Sung, Kang Dong Won, and obviously Lim JuHwan :wub: so yes, CY is helping alot by me loving this drama. of course with little help of MinHot :P

btw, the drama Great Seer that just started today is about Lee Sung Gye the guy who killed CY (the kid whom ES saved) and was the first king of Joseon dynasty. I am sure we will see another version of CY and King Gongmin there too... 8)

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 23:25
by shiofmedea
oh dear, all these loops and vortex and paradox is making my brain like this right now
What can I say, I love SF and physics was my favorite subject at school
I am watching Arang .. every week when subs are out, I can wait a day or two for its subs
To be honest my Korean is on so low level that Arang without subtitles is waste on me, I need them to undrestand whats going on. With Faith where plot is not so demanding I can manage with some intuition help.

I am helplesly honest person, to myself at last, so I can't pretend that that drama is good only becouse I fall in love with it, I can point every weakness and end still be back to discuss it. Magic is it not?

Oh yes! Man with swords do it for me all the time. Ok, man with guns too and martial arts generaly but sword is just a level higher. And fashion was not so bad there :lol (those from Arang are killing me, sorry, I still cant stand those things on their heads, not to mention that everybody looks like 100kg worth).
And for CY/MH add the hairs from firsts episodes, not so arranged and flat like now and I am very happy girl indeed.
there is something very appealing about his face when he is angry, serious or sad (he's childishly cute when he laughs to the point of me thinking that's not how CY suppose to look like)
I suppose one of the reasons I am not fan of his comedy dramas. It's not that he looks bad, it's just he looks way better focusing in this commanding mode.. and well I have tendency to repeat fighting scenes more that once (so ashamed here)

Great Seer is on my download right now - we will see what is it worth. For sure CY will be older so we need to find another obsession :lol I read a bit and the oponent seems like interesting person too and battle between such strong personalities should be interesting to watch even as marginal plot.

Posted: Oct 10th, '12, 23:31
by Ethlenn
@shiofmedea: Joseon annals didn't much like King Gongmin, so historians have to filter the facts from malicious comments added later. It's understandable, Lee was a new dynasty and it's obvious it wanted to discredit the previous. It happens everywher in the world.
King Gongmin is a very important person in Korean history and most of nowadays historians agree he was just unlucky living in such times among such people and circumstances, and being heavily hit with personal tragedies (first, Noguk's death) and after that plunging into magical Buddhism (monk Shindon) and madness.
Yuans hated him and treated him as a traitor.

As for interactions with Japan at that time: bad, cause Japanese pirates plundered the coastline. And Chinese, well, we had Yuans, and forming Ming dynastly only then, so...
Actually that part of Korean history is really vivid. TBH, Korean history was always violent and not stagnant. Except for court factions and their political yet bloody "wars".

Posted: Oct 11th, '12, 04:11
by Peggy
Ah, but Shindon is one wonderful drama that is worth searching for to watch all the things that happened. I loved that drama and would watch it any time it came up.
Not that kind of magic and not fantasy, but very close to being history really. At least it didn't have people popping through heavens' gate on and off. Buddism was powerful enough in this monk's hands.

Posted: Oct 12th, '12, 14:54
by shiofmedea
I was thinking
Yuan being interested in Doc was inavoidable (she foresaw their fall down, kind of difficult to ignore) but officialy taking her is bad move. It can be seen as weakness (them being strong they should not pay official attention to such rumors). But in case she is "true thing' they need to manage her. So depending on approach - discredit her and then in secret bring to capital to interogate or make her go on run, use it as proof that she is false and dispose one way or another (still bringing to capitol in secret is possible). Seems to me that they choose option two so the letter was delivered to make her run (so she can be captured without requesting officialy to give her up and bring more attention to subject of Yuan dynasty predicted disposal). And they need to run anyway as she will be given up by king easly if Yuan decided that they can risk such demand. So good move with the letter, I think.
BTW my melodramatic self is still waiting if maybe old CY love is still alive and will be this Yuan representant (or helper). We did not saw her dead exactly only on tree (but maybe they wanted to spare our eyes..) Just to complicate things.. it will be stupid turn of events but I would have good laugh then :P
And spare me this slow motion, please. It was very bad done in last episode, like CY runing .. slow motion with strange music... normal runing once again.. it did not added to atmosphere at all just looked strange to me :blink .