Rooftop Prince (SBS, 2012)

Discuss Korean drama series here.
User avatar
seirin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 1611
Joined: Feb 28th, '04, 01:08

Post by seirin » May 12th, '12, 20:36

Ethlenn wrote: But in the middle of this, I kinda feel sad for Sena. one reason - she is the rejected one. Although she is also the bilogical daughter of President Jang, she is less welcome than her second daughter. Of course, for now, she doesn't know that, but it's us, viewers who know that.
I don't know where you get the idea Sena is unloved. Jang knows her older daughter's whereabouts, but she doesn't know where the younger one is. So she's trying to find the younger one. The older one she can always take with her. She even left all her company shares under Sena's name. Since she can't find her youngest daughter, Jang is going to take the older one to HK with her.

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » May 12th, '12, 20:41

President Jang is looking for her second daughter. But she has her first one within her reach and what? Nothing, she doesn't say "oh, it's so good I found another daughter", no, she's still looking for the other one. She's taking Sena to Hong Kong? Well, let's wait till Park Ha's identity will be revealed, let's see how President Jang, who is certain about Sena, react. I don't expect happy family barbecue.
Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

User avatar
seirin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 1611
Joined: Feb 28th, '04, 01:08

Post by seirin » May 12th, '12, 22:39

Ethlenn wrote:President Jang is looking for her second daughter. But she has her first one within her reach and what? Nothing, she doesn't say "oh, it's so good I found another daughter", no, she's still looking for the other one. She's taking Sena to Hong Kong? Well, let's wait till Park Ha's identity will be revealed, let's see how President Jang, who is certain about Sena, react. I don't expect happy family barbecue.
She has second one within her reach, so she can easily get her back. Also, it's her close friend who's been taking care of her daughter, so I think Jang feels reluctant to take Sena away because her friend has been raising her. She's basically dumped the child on her friend to raise and after the child has grown, she's suddenly going to take her back without consulting her friend first? That would be pretty rude.

Jang is already upset that Sena is trying to pretend to be someone she's not. She's also lying about not knowing who is Jang's second daughter. Sena is a liar now in front of Jang. But Jang is still thinking of taking Sena with her. Wait til Jang finds out what Sena's done with Pak Ha when she was young and what's happening with her right now. At 6 yrs old, she dumped Pak Ha in a truck to no mans's land. Now at her influence, Tae Mu is locking up Pak Ha in a truck to freeze to death or shipped to no mans land. I'm sure Jang will love Sena after she finds out. I mean, Sena is her real daughter. Hell with Pak Ha. *sarcasm*

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » May 13th, '12, 22:51

I really don't understand why all that sarcasm. I can't say what I feel about characters? I do hate Sena's character, yet I can sense she's somehow unloved and that's all.
Sorry if it's against classic trend about this drama characters.

Sena's crimes, as well as Taemu's should not be forgiven, hell, Taemu tried to kill a person, but I believe no one is 100% good or evil. Sena has lots of insecurities, and she's covering her own complexes with possessivenes and need to destroy other people's happiness. She's envious of anything she doesn't have and tries to destroy it, if she can't have it. A classic tale. But every action has a reason, and I'm just pondering over Sena's reasons to behave the way she does.
Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

User avatar
seirin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 1611
Joined: Feb 28th, '04, 01:08

Post by seirin » May 14th, '12, 00:46

Sena is just plain unhappy for being poor and very selfish. She doesn't want to share anything. Sena isn't looking for love. She's looking for wealth and prestige. I think her adoptive mother treats her like her own daughter and loves her a lot. But Sena was unhappy because she suddenly has a sibling she has to take care of because her mother got married. You say Sena is unloved, but her adoptive mother really loves her as her own. Sena is unhappy because her adoptive mother is poor and uneducated. She finds being poor disgusting. She wants to present the image she's rich and well educated. Hence she lied about her family background and possibly her resume. She worked so hard to be at the top but she suddenly finds out Pak Ha who is supposedly poor, is now the daughter of a rich woman. She worked so hard but Pak Ha goes through life like a ditz and hits upon such good fortune. Even the CEO's son likes Pak Ha. She feels it's not fair. She will steal it away. I think if Pak Ha remained at the bottom of the slum and weren't a threat, Sena wouldn't harm her.

Even in Joseon, she was aiming high. She wanted to be the crowned princess. I think even if her sister wasn't chosen and she was competing with other girls. She would find the girl with the most potential and kick her down so she would be princess and live in the palace.

The sarcasm was about her real mom treating her own daughter Sena badly and only focusing on finding the younger one. It's not true. Jang treats both of them equally. She abandoned both daughters and went back to look for them now. She's found the older one already but not the younger one. But although Sena has disappointed her, she still wants her back. You claim if she finds Pak Ha, Sena will be pushed aside. That's not so. Both of them are her daughters, but Sena will have to share. We all know Sena won't share anything. So Sena will be the one to push herself into a dead end.

There are people like Sena who exist, but very few. That's why there's so much crime in the world. If everyone was good, there wouldn't be crimes. I've even heard of a story of a classmate who killed another one because of jealousy over being top of the class.

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » May 15th, '12, 20:22

Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

kahlan
Posts: 39
Joined: Jul 13th, '04, 00:54

Post by kahlan » May 22nd, '12, 23:39

I think Sena only loves herself. Not even sure if she really love Taemu or just his position and wealth. But i'm so into this show.

esmer86
Upload Addict
Upload Addict
Posts: 447
Joined: Mar 27th, '10, 15:10

Post by esmer86 » May 27th, '12, 21:58

Finished watching this drama yesterday and can I just say that I've long lost count of all the cuteness I saw. Yoochun....ah!~~~~Yoochun :wub: and my three cutie dweebs sidekicks. :dopey: Lovely acting he showed for this drama even after a rough start for him. I remember reading about the script being overly used showing how much he was into this drama to make it work, hard worker. Love that in a man. He's character on the other hand :doh: I don't know what in the hell he was thinking of in the beginning but, to me, he started to shape up around the middle-ending of the drama.

The sisters on the other hand.....I really liked Se Na's character until she started getting weak towards Taemu. I just remember saying that if I would had the role of the "bad girl" I would have done it the way she did. I clap my hands to Pak Ha because even with all the **** she went through she still stayed strong and survived. I loved it how she started to fight back to Se Na especially with the water glasses scene. Taemu had his ups and downs with me sort of a love/hate relationship.

Over all, I enjoyed the drama. 100% Cheesy love scenes, but isn't it always like that. I'll take it all but one, the fire. Yes like everyone else I could have done well without that one. That was a little too much for me. And the last episode fight scenes. It couldn't be anymore fake :nuts:

For those who saw the ending already:
How was it? Is it possible to feel complete and empty at the same time because that's how I felt for this drama. Just let me get this straight, It was Taeyoung who meet with Pak Ha in the park with the soul-memories of the prince right. Hence forever love. Excuse me for sounding like such a dumb ass but I feel that they could have ended it better. I'll except it but still....there is something missing.
Image :wub: :alcoholic: TW Drama: Whos the One

Silverman
Posts: 600
Joined: Mar 25th, '11, 22:10

Post by Silverman » May 27th, '12, 23:42

I just finished the drama. Well i liked it, because it's fantasy-romcom with time travel.´, which is like all years holidays on one day. So i'm kinda biased^^.

Yes it was cheesy and in a lot parts predictable. I think the drama could be better, if they hadn't shown the "evil" side of the princess in the beginning. If they would've cut these parts out, it would be a lot more unpredictable and suspensful.

I'm cool with cheesy and predictable. But what i hate in some kdramas is, that the maincharacter could solve half of the conflicts of the drama in the beginning...and this with just 1 or 2 sentences.
i give you a fictional example(so no spoiler here^^): The dream girl of the male lead is about to marry a damn child molester and the male lead knows it The male lead knows it. At the same time he wants that the girl comes back to him, on her own accord. So he choses not to tell her, that her fiance is criminal. To summarize: he doesn't want to traumatize the girl, so he lets her marry a psycho? Such situations drive me nuts. And RP had a few situations of this kind.

Another thing, which is very...awkward...is the timeflow in this drama.
After the surgery, the 3 sidekicks want to earn money...so they write a book, film a movie and become famous. This for itself is a little bit deus-ex-machina. But they do this in a few days...If some of you tried to publicise something...you know how long such things can take.
As for the ending:
I think its very sad....at least for some parts.
-Se Na is in jail...for murder...although it was an accident
-the Prince loses both versions of Pak Ha and leads a lonely life in pain
-why is the second lead accused of murder, if the victim is alive? It was also an accident and a decent lawyer would make like 1 or 2 years out of the whole thing

On the other hand Pak Ha and Tae Young - part makes sense. At first i also thought, that it's kinda... But they were fated together from the very beginning. He also doesn't have the memories of the prince. He sees her and he falls in love with her in this shop of hers...On the other hand the last 2 sentences of the drama contradict this...
And overall has the ending things which make sense, if they were on their own. But together they contradict each other.
F.e. why do the guys vanish from the photo? It would make sense, if the timeline is "correcting" itself. But if this is true, then memories and all the deeds, which are influences by the time travelers, should vanish. Also the 4 male leads shouldn't be able to take modern things into the past. This is just one example..there are more, but i don't want to go there.
Overall i think it's a entertaining drama and if i ever find the time to rewatch a drama(i rewatched just "that fool" and "secret garden" in all my kdrama-years) then i would rewatch this one.[/quote]

User avatar
seirin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 1611
Joined: Feb 28th, '04, 01:08

Post by seirin » May 28th, '12, 00:12

Silverman wrote: As for the ending:
I think its very sad....at least for some parts.
-Se Na is in jail...for murder...although it was an accident
-the Prince loses both versions of Pak Ha and leads a lonely life in pain
-why is the second lead accused of murder, if the victim is alive? It was also an accident and a decent lawyer would make like 1 or 2 years out of the whole thing

On the other hand Pak Ha and Tae Young - part makes sense. At first i also thought, that it's kinda... But they were fated together from the very beginning. He also doesn't have the memories of the prince. He sees her and he falls in love with her in this shop of hers...On the other hand the last 2 sentences of the drama contradict this...
And overall has the ending things which make sense, if they were on their own. But together they contradict each other.
F.e. why do the guys vanish from the photo? It would make sense, if the timeline is "correcting" itself. But if this is true, then memories and all the deeds, which are influences by the time travelers, should vanish. Also the 4 male leads shouldn't be able to take modern things into the past. This is just one example..there are more, but i don't want to go there.
Sena's crime is manslaughter. She caused the accident and didn't call for help. Although it wasn't deliberate, she didn't call for help and someone died because of it. An example, if you hit someone by accident and ran off without calling for help. The person died from bleeding. That's a hit and run and manslaughter.

The princes' era was a sad one. Bu Yong died with unrequited love as well. So they were both dealt the same fate. Hence meeting in their next lives.

Tae Mu would be charged with attempted murder for both Tae Yong and the fake Tae Yong. He admitted he wanted Tae Yong and fake Tae Yong dead. That's not an accident if he wanted them dead. If you accidentally pushed someone into the water but you didn't try to save the person. Plus you tried to hide the fact you weren't there and you wanted that person dead but the person survived. It's attempted murder.

For TY falling for PH, that would be back in NY. Not at the shop. I think at the shop, TY recognizes PH already. It seems the reincarnated prince as TY still remembers PH. That's on the assumption that there's reincarnation and you can keep memories even after reincarnating. I suppose because of the time traveling it gets a bit confusing. Since the prince went into the future and back into the past. The past got changed (his minions marketed omurice), but the future also got changed because of the prince meeting PH in the future.
What doesn't make sense is how his minion is listening to his mp3 player. The mp3 player needs to be charged and I don't think electricity was developed yet? Doesn't it run out of batteries?

Silverman
Posts: 600
Joined: Mar 25th, '11, 22:10

Post by Silverman » May 28th, '12, 08:38

But it's involuntary manslaugher in Se Na's case. Thats over 20 years difference in the sentencing.

As for Tae Mu...yea you are right.

For the Mp3-player. There are solar loadstations, so it's not impossible.
About the recognizing part i'm not so sure. Yes he fell for her in NY, but I'm not sure, if he recognized her at the point, when he met her in the juice bar (it's over 3 years ago and there is the coma-part...so it's possible that he couldn't remember). I would say the writers wanted to bring up this whole "fate" thing. So that he goes to that JB without prior knowing and "his soul" recognizes his "soulmate". Although it was established, that the reincarnations have no memories of their previous lifes, it actually could be, that he remembered his previous life(or parts) at the point where he saw her in NY. That would also suggest, that he recognized her at the JB. Yeaa... i have dozens of theories, whih could explain these things, but still^^.

Lludara
Posts: 60
Joined: Oct 4th, '10, 23:51
Location: Pensacola, FL

Post by Lludara » May 28th, '12, 21:56

After watching the ending, while I mostly started this drama on a whim and because i like Micky in SS...I wasn't completely disappointed. I still prefer King 2 hearts over this one, but there were some very cute parts in it...

About the ending.

Esmer86, i agree with you, i felt completed with the ending yet so shallow as well. There are probably a dozen different things we could come with as to why it ended the way it did. One interesting thing I read was that Pak Ha gave him the necklace to protect him, after reading in the history books that he died of an arrow to the heart. (Although this wasn't really brought forth in the drama except when she told him to always keep the necklace near his heart). I felt sad that Lee Gak had to live out the rest of his days without his beloved by his side.

Honestly, I believe Tae Yong and Lee Gak couldn't exist in the same timeline perhaps, which is why when the one went back to his timeline, Tae Yong woke up. I wouldn't think he'd have the memories of the old Lee Gak, but that his heart recognizes her as his soul mate. I believe that when he turns into the king, it's not because that's who he is, but possibly who she sees him as.

Or perhaps he does have his memories, and his soul was transplanted into the Tae Yong when he left this timeline.

There's so many possibilities. I prefer to go with the fact that his soul recognizes her rather then he remembers everything.
I will say I was satisfied.

User avatar
aility
Posts: 636
Joined: Feb 26th, '04, 11:29
Location: Norway

Post by aility » May 28th, '12, 23:04

Can I just say I am SO IMMENSELY HAPPY that we got ONE PROPER KISS out of this serie!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Kiss in Ep.19, SO MUCH RAW EMOTION from both leads, why didn't she do that earlier instead of being a wall? Such a waste,:crazy:

And can I also express my dissatisfaction for Sena not getting her punishment. She did redeem herself a bit in Ep.19, but I felt it was a bit too late... Sometimes I still doesn't understand all the hate and resentment she carries. I guess it is karma? :scratch:

As for the ending... I cant say I feel satisfied, but this was one of the endings most of us saw coming I guess. Albeit I wish the writer took another approach, because with this, it does unjust not only to YiGak and Park Ha, but also TaeYong. And yes I see Yigak and Taeyong as TWO Different individuals, although they have the same soul.
I understand that the writer emphasises a lot about reincarnation and ever lasting love, and souls who belong together. So in a sense, since Buyong's soul loves Yigak's soul, it makes sense that ParkHa ends up with Taeyong. However, Parkha fell in love with Yigak, who isn't TaeYong, albeit their souls are supposedly the same. But in a personality wise blablabla... Taeyong and Yigak are two different person... The writer was smart to make Taeyong change into YiGak in that final scene... but still... I would be more happy if the ending was Parkha not remembering Yigak since he did change history by finding the rightful killer and solve the mystery, and therefor leaves ParkHa free to go to Taeyong as she was supposed to anyway... AAH... I cant find the right words to explain what I mean :P
Image
Made by Orion ^^

Peggy
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mar 18th, '04, 04:18
Location: USA

Post by Peggy » May 29th, '12, 04:33

I understand you perfectly and I have yet to see the ending scene. there is no way to make the two the same in the eyes of Perk Ha even tho the souls are one and the same. I just guess they are so similar that she will still love him and they will remain happy ever after.

User avatar
seirin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 1611
Joined: Feb 28th, '04, 01:08

Post by seirin » May 29th, '12, 17:19

Silverman wrote: For the Mp3-player. There are solar loadstations, so it's not impossible.
I don't think there's solar loadstations back in Josen? Unless Man Bo read up on how to retrieve solar energy and built one. The other guy is not smart enough to build anything that's for sure :lol

kahlan
Posts: 39
Joined: Jul 13th, '04, 00:54

Post by kahlan » May 31st, '12, 10:02

I'm glad i'm not the only one who feels that way about the ending. It's nice and yet not nice. I too have an empty feeling. Which it would have been a better ending.

All said, i enjoyed this series very much.

Will now try to start on Kings 2 Heart.

Silverman
Posts: 600
Joined: Mar 25th, '11, 22:10

Post by Silverman » May 31st, '12, 20:24

aility wrote:
I understand that the writer emphasises a lot about reincarnation and ever lasting love, and souls who belong together. So in a sense, since Buyong's soul loves Yigak's soul, it makes sense that ParkHa ends up with Taeyong. However, Parkha fell in love with Yigak, who isn't TaeYong, albeit their souls are supposedly the same. But in a personality wise blablabla... Taeyong and Yigak are two different person... The writer was smart to make Taeyong change into YiGak in that final scene... but still... I would be more happy if the ending was Parkha not remembering Yigak since he did change history by finding the rightful killer and solve the mystery, and therefor leaves ParkHa free to go to Taeyong as she was supposed to anyway... AAH... I cant find the right words to explain what I mean :P
Hey exactly my thoughts^^.
seirin wrote:
Silverman wrote: For the Mp3-player. There are solar loadstations, so it's not impossible.
I don't think there's solar loadstations back in Josen? Unless Man Bo read up on how to retrieve solar energy and built one. The other guy is not smart enough to build anything that's for sure :lol
But there is sun in Josen. If he brought back an mp3 player, then he could also bring a solar station(the small ones, which have enough power for a mp3 player, are not bigger, than a wallet).

fortunecat
Posts: 1
Joined: Jun 8th, '12, 14:21

Post by fortunecat » Jun 8th, '12, 14:25

this show is full of loopholes, but yet so entertaining.

gets really sad towards the end of the show, especially the wedding scene where Park Ha cries after the prince disappeared. eyes watered everytime i see it again :cry:

silky_pashmina
Posts: 1
Joined: Jun 16th, '12, 12:21

Post by silky_pashmina » Jun 16th, '12, 13:06

I watched RTP because of Yoochun and his 3 ducklings hehe. Yoochun really did a great job here.

This drama had a lot of potential and I almost gave up on it halfway through, if not for the Joseon F4. It was initially an awesome drama but towards the later episodes, the corporate thingy became very frustrating to watch. Am I the only one who thinks that Yoo-Mi has more chemistry with Yoochun than Han Ji-min with Yoochun? As much as I despised the bitchy character of the Crown Princess, imho I could not deny the chemistry of Yoo-mi and Yoochun. I hope to see them together in a different drama; with Yoo-mi not as a villain this time keke...she's one very good actress!

toenail
Posts: 60
Joined: Dec 19th, '09, 00:24

Post by toenail » Jun 18th, '12, 00:30

kahlan wrote:I think Sena only loves herself. Not even sure if she really love Taemu or just his position and wealth. But i'm so into this show.
Se Na doesn't love anyone but herself. She hitched with Tae Mu because he's wealthy and still count as boss's grandson even if not blood related. She easily tried to dump Tae Mu for Grandma's favourite boy Tae Yong.

Se Na doesn't realise that Tae Mu is actually her best deal ever. Someone as conniving like herself, they are peas in one evil pod. Tae Mu is smart and hard working (he seems to be the only one really work hard in the company?) and despite being illegimite grandson, still wealthy. Not to mention he loves her madly despite her trying to latch onto better prospect.

I blame Grandma for Tae Mu's evil. He's only evil in company related matter because Grandma denied him all his hard work for the company and instead forcing the company to a blood-grandson who actually doesn't want it.

In another matters, Tae Mu is a decent guy. He put Park Ha's mom in hospital and visited her after the accident and even arranged to get Park Ha a job upon Mom's request. Visiting and arranging job are beyond his liability in the accident.

User avatar
Keikan
Posts: 69
Joined: Aug 16th, '11, 19:58

Post by Keikan » Jun 27th, '12, 06:58

I had given up on dramas a couple of months ago because I'd become interested in American tv-series again, but since American tv-series are currently on hiatus, I recently decided to go back to dramas. A friend of mine highly recommended me "Rooftop Prince", so I started watching it a couple of days ago and only just finished it.
I'm not sure what to say about the drama as a whole. I think it started as funny and original, but somewhere along the middle it turned into this melodrama/epic love-story mess. But that's a complaint I have about a lot of K-dramas. A lot of them start with amazing potential, only to be taken over by the main love-story and all the clichés that come with it. It's not that I hate love-stories. On the contrary, I'm a romantic at heart but come on... if you're going for comedy at least carry it to the end. I loved the part where the 4 guys from Joseon were adapting to life in modern Seoul. I also loved the interactions between Pak Ha and the prince in the beginning. That was so funny and different for a change! But why did the writers have to drop the humor completely and change the mood of the drama into a big soap-opera/crying fest? It really frustrates me because this drama had so much potential that was really stupidly wasted.

About the main love-story itself: I thought it was a nice idea to evoke the theme of reincarnation. Having studied a little bit about medieval Japanese Buddhism, I think I got what the writers were trying to get at. In Japanese medieval Buddhism, if a person dies unable to resolve a conflict, this conflict will make them cling on to this earth until it finally is resolved, preventing them from reaching Nirvana. Ok, this is a very simplified explanation, and I know this is a K-drama not a J-drama, but I imagine the basic principles of modern Buddhism must be similar.
The way I understood it in "Rooftop Prince" is that two souls (Pak Ha and the prince) are searching each other, but unable to meet due to unforeseen circumstances every time they are reincarnated. The fact that they can't seem to find each other forces them to cling on to this earth, which in turn traps them in the cycle of reincarnation, preventing them from reaching enlightenment. At first I really didn't understand the ending with Tae Young meeting Pak Ha, and then suddenly transforming into the prince. But if you think of it in these terms, it actually makes sense. I think that was the writers were trying to get at is that the two souls finally managed to find each other, and the conflict being resolved, they were both granted enlightenment. In other words, the unending cycle of reincarnation was finally stopped, and once Tae Yang and Pak Ha die, their souls will be granted Nirvana. So all in all, we were given a happy and beautiful ending (albeit a little bittersweet).
Every dream is just a journey away.
-xxx 桂冠

toenail
Posts: 60
Joined: Dec 19th, '09, 00:24

Post by toenail » Jul 7th, '12, 00:52

Keikan wrote:
I'm not sure what to say about the drama as a whole. I think it started as funny and original, but somewhere along the middle it turned into this melodrama/epic love-story mess. But that's a complaint I have about a lot of K-dramas. A lot of them start with amazing potential, only to be taken over by the main love-story and all the clichés that come with it. It's not that I hate love-stories. On the contrary, I'm a romantic at heart but come on... if you're going for comedy at least carry it to the end. I loved the part where the 4 guys from Joseon were adapting to life in modern Seoul. I also loved the interactions between Pak Ha and the prince in the beginning. That was so funny and different for a change! But why did the writers have to drop the humor completely and change the mood of the drama into a big soap-opera/crying fest? It really frustrates me because this drama had so much potential that was really stupidly wasted.

About the main love-story itself: I thought it was a nice idea to evoke the theme of reincarnation. Having studied a little bit about medieval Japanese Buddhism, I think I got what the writers were trying to get at. In Japanese medieval Buddhism, if a person dies unable to resolve a conflict, this conflict will make them cling on to this earth until it finally is resolved, preventing them from reaching Nirvana. Ok, this is a very simplified explanation, and I know this is a K-drama not a J-drama, but I imagine the basic principles of modern Buddhism must be similar.
The way I understood it in "Rooftop Prince" is that two souls (Pak Ha and the prince) are searching each other, but unable to meet due to unforeseen circumstances every time they are reincarnated. The fact that they can't seem to find each other forces them to cling on to this earth, which in turn traps them in the cycle of reincarnation, preventing them from reaching enlightenment. At first I really didn't understand the ending with Tae Young meeting Pak Ha, and then suddenly transforming into the prince. But if you think of it in these terms, it actually makes sense. I think that was the writers were trying to get at is that the two souls finally managed to find each other, and the conflict being resolved, they were both granted enlightenment. In other words, the unending cycle of reincarnation was finally stopped, and once Tae Yang and Pak Ha die, their souls will be granted Nirvana. So all in all, we were given a happy and beautiful ending (albeit a little bittersweet).
I think you are going a bit far about this enlightenment thing. They are certainly not getting enlightened just because their souls find each other, and thus "granted" Nirvana. Enlightened beings don't cling to their beloved, there's no soul in Buddhism, and no God or deities to "grant" Nirvana to anyone.

You are thinking of Westernised version of ghost story, this is completely NOT Buddhism concept, except if you are referring to those cheap watered down Buddhism for Dummies books. Better read about Buddhism more carefully mate!

User avatar
Keikan
Posts: 69
Joined: Aug 16th, '11, 19:58

Post by Keikan » Jul 7th, '12, 02:01

toenail: Ok first of all you're being rude. I do appreciate constructive criticism, but I do not tolerate being insulted. If you knew anything about it, you would know that there are several forms of Buddhism. I said I studied Japanese medieval Buddhism (what is now referred to as "Amidism") in relation to Japanese Noh theatre (I studied that at Masters level at university) and if you'd read any Noh plays you would see the similarities between this drama and the idea of Enlightenment in Noh. In Zeami's plays for example, you always have a spirit who is clinging on to this earth due to a personal conflict that happened when they were still alive (they lost their child, their lover, or are simply clinging on to a regret such as losing a battle or killing someone). The fact that they are clinging on to this regret is preventing them from reaching enlightenment, grounding them to this earth, and every Noh play is about them finding their way to Nirvana. This may be too similar to "Western pop Buddhism" for you, but Amidism is still today one of the most popular traditions of Buddhism in East Asia. And yes, it is practiced in Korea. :)

But this is getting off-topic.

I heard the theme song of this drama yesterday in a restaurant and it made me all nostalgic. The more I think about it, and the more I realized I actually really liked this drama. I might have to watch it again sometime in the future.
Every dream is just a journey away.
-xxx 桂冠

User avatar
jhessy
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 27th, '04, 23:35
Location: California

yummy

Post by jhessy » Jul 7th, '12, 02:03

i think i need to keep up with my dramas, i haven't been watching this -_-
Currently Watching: korean = Goong; Tree of Heaven; taiwanese = It Started with a Kiss.

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » Jul 7th, '12, 06:57

Keikan wrote: In Zeami's plays for example, you always have a spirit who is clinging on to this earth due to a personal conflict that happened when they were still alive (they lost their child, their lover, or are simply clinging on to a regret such as losing a battle or killing someone). The fact that they are clinging on to this regret is preventing them from reaching enlightenment, grounding them to this earth, and every Noh play is about them finding their way to Nirvana.
Most likely thanks to monk's incantations. But here two traditions are interwoven - both buddhist and traditional japanese view on spirits that linger on Earth. Oh yes, I read Zeami and Kanami's plays. In original.
Keikan wrote: This may be too similar to "Western pop Buddhism" for you, but Amidism is still today one of the most popular traditions of Buddhism in East Asia. And yes, it is practiced in Korea. :)
Because Amidism and idea of Pure Land arrived to Japan from China via Korea. This is why. Amidism and Jodo are really simple, this is why it permeated people's mind so easily. It's Amidism that says that if a holy man is going to reach salvation - then criminal even more.
Let's say it - amidism and jodo were pop-Buddhism then, comparing to all those esoteric sects or hinayana.
Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

toenail
Posts: 60
Joined: Dec 19th, '09, 00:24

Post by toenail » Jul 7th, '12, 11:01

Alright if I appear rude to you then I apologise. I don't want to make you upset, but I hope other readers who are not familiar with Buddhism wouldn't read your comment and think of it as popular ghost stories like in Demi Moore's Ghost.

Who Are You has the same storyline, but it doesn't flag the idea as Buddhism. That's the point. Don't want to confuse traditional Korean/Japanese spiritualism with Buddhism. The same as Santa Claus and Christianity. Just leave religions out of popular entertainment, wouldn't want this for Arang and the Magistrate later.
Ethlenn wrote: Let's say it - amidism and jodo were pop-Buddhism then, comparing to all those esoteric sects or hinayana.
Yes that's where I am from, wouldn't argue about the term hinayana, but Ethlenn got the point.

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » Jul 7th, '12, 12:41

Hinayana - Hīnayāna (हीनयान) is a Sanskrit and Pāli term literally meaning: the "Inferior Vehicle", "Deficient Vehicle", the "Abandoned Vehicle", or the "Defective Vehicle". The term appeared around the 1st or 2nd century. (wikipedia)
I was referring to it because comparing to mahayana, it's more closed, self-centered and ascetic, without that much spirituality but with internal philosophy.
But it's heavily offtopic.

I'm with toenail on this - the motif of lingering souls is not only exclusive to Buddhism, for Lotus Pond's sake. Every religion that developped the concept of other world has it.
Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

Silverman
Posts: 600
Joined: Mar 25th, '11, 22:10

Post by Silverman » Jul 8th, '12, 01:50

I'm not really knowledgeable in religious things (well ok, i know christianity and am one of the very few people in the world, who actually read the bible...btw. great gantasy-book), so please excuse me for my ignorance. Which religion was it, where the "soul" or the energy of a dead being (be it animals or plants) flows into some kind of "Soul conglomerate", so that in the end there are no individual souls. And from this "soul conglomerate" will be formed new souls. But i think souls, which didn't complete their lifestask will be reborn.

User avatar
Ethlenn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: Jun 28th, '09, 18:16
Contact:

Post by Ethlenn » Jul 15th, '12, 14:44

The concept of "collective soul" because that's how it's called, appears in stoical philosophy: each life cycle ends with a devastating fire in which all souls dissolve. When the destruction is complete, a new creation begins (referred to as Ciceronian renovatio). In certain schools of Buddhism and Hinduism-based too, the concept of one collective after-nirvana soul is also present. Plus, I guess you don't know the Bible as well as you boast you do - in Apocalypse and also in few non-canonical scriptures, there is a hint of a concept of one harmonious soul joined with God's eternal glory after the Judgement Day.

This is an interesting concept that appears in every religion that evolved to highly spiritual level.

And about the fact whether Bible is nice fantasy book or not, ie. Enuma Elish or Bhagavad Gita too, right? Who cares? As J. Campbell said - if we are to study the mythology with historical manners, and treat all what happened in myths or characters in it in the category of historical truth - we'd fail. Myths represent the sacrality of human life and they can't be treated the same as chronicles.
Image
Popularity? Since I know what it means to be forgotten, I won''t be shaken by it. KNG

User avatar
nangelique
Posts: 22
Joined: Dec 19th, '12, 06:47
Location: Australia

Post by nangelique » Jan 16th, '13, 19:53

Okay, I've read through some of the posts in this thread... I'm not gonna get into the spiritual thing or whatever. I just finished the series and there was one thing that bothered me a bit... Why didn't they ever lock their houses? I'm so confused. Lol.

Anyway, the series was great but the episodes about TM wanting to get the shares (the last couple of ones) did kind of drag a bit for me... I don't mind the romantic cliches though. I've kind of accepted that with kdramas. Yoochun was adorable and so were his three sidekicks.
I think everyone did great in their acting. My favourite character though would probably be Bo Young. Lol. I don't know why but for some reason it's her. Even though, I loved the Prince and Pak Ha's characters... They did frustrated me a bit at times. There were just times where they seemed really stupid to me but oh well. They're my second fave characters anyway. Next would be the sidekicks. Hahaha, they're pretty amazing.

Overall, great drama. Would I watch it again? Yeah may if I had time... But I'd probably skip most of eps 16-18. I think they could've done better especially with the ending. Still, I thought it was kind of beautiful how they both met up like that. They are truly fated for each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest