[Discuss.] Taisetsu na Koto wa Subete Kimi ga Oshiete Kureta

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
avieamber
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Post by avieamber » Mar 19th, '11, 14:09

iluvasiandrama wrote:I have finally watched all 8 episodes without skipping scenes because it was that good. I don't see this one going for more than 10-11 episodes but if it does I will definitely watch it still.

SPOILER ALERT
Natsumi is totally blind from the beginning and she can't see that Shuji is not in love with her. He cares about her and is "used" to her always being there but somehow her assertiveness all this time has made him weak. She is so used to taking up the slack for him and now she needs him to stand up and be a man, he is scared to be a man, when it comes to her. :whistling:

But he has no problem finding words and being a man for Saeki. :roll He seems to come alive around her and have no problem expressing himself around her. She influences him to do manly things in a way Natsumi can't at this point in the drama. How sad because Natsumi got pregnant thinking that would "seal the deal" and it didn't work. I think she was too mature to make that kind of mistake, SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS DOING but her plan BACKFIRED! :doh:

By episode 6 & 7 her love turns into desperation. She kept the baby because she thought he would change but you can't FORCE someone to love you back... I can hear Pink's soundtrack playing right about here, :music: "STUPID GIRL STUUUPID GIRL! Ah! I just want to scream!! :cussing:
I'm just so surprised that no one has coupled up yet... still trying to figure that out :scratch: I HOPE THAT SAEKI AND SHUJI GET TOGETHER :heart::mrgreen:
:cussing: Now I can't wait for episode 9 :alcoholic:
I'm rooting for both Shuji and Saeki too! I like Erika but her character isn't getting much love from me in this drama.

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Post by imhafluz » Mar 19th, '11, 15:34

i'm fall in love with Saeki

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 19th, '11, 18:44

I like Saeki too! :cheers:
Saeki doesn't hide the truth. She doesn't like to cover things up and thats the difference between her and Natsumi. Natsumi on the other hand, is older but desperate for Shuji and desperation never wins. I really want Saeki to end up in a happy relationship.
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Post by Momosodapop » Mar 20th, '11, 02:00

Oh seems like many of you are rooting for Hikari nee~

For me, I really sympathize for Natsumi much more than Hikari (even though Hikari is quite pretty lol)
If Natsumi wasn't there for Shuji, everything would be much worse. As a woman whose her boyfriend get snatched by a school kid, i think the way Natsumi handle things is quite respectful.

As for Hikari, even with all the tragedy in her life, she doesn't have a right to do things that almost destroy the future of a couple; both in profession and marriage.
Although she didn't mean it to happen, I still can't sympathize her like I do for Natsumi :(
Hopefully Shuji can make up his mind and do what he really wants to do in the end. This guy is one of the most irritating character I have seen in a while lol
I even though I don't really love this drama, I will keep watching it till the end. [I'm definitely on Natsumi side :)]

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 20th, '11, 16:01

@Momosodapop - I understand what you're saying because at first, I felt the same way and I felt so sorry for Natsumi until...
She got pregnant out of wedlock. I think that as a teacher and role model she bad a decision on her part by not protecting herself or using birth control knowing that she was not married yet. You can't trust the guy to do it so respect yourself and your profession by using protection. She could have kids after the marriage ceremony. But all this happened before Saeki even came around. Then she kept the baby only because she thought that she could get Shuji so that's not fair to the baby because she is only using the baby to get Shuji, not necessarily because she just wants the baby itself.
I think it's the writer's fault that Erika's character Natsumi is not a good role model. But this is all Shuji's fault!
I don't know why he is so silent so far. He barely says anything unless it's to Saeki. Talk to Natsumi dude! She is hurting... I think that Natsumi's style is not up to par with Saeki. Saeki always has nice hair, clothes and makeup but they make Natsumi look so boring and tasteless and that's what I don't like too.
Oh well, I can't wait for more episodes too :lol
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Post by LaLaLaDRAMA » Mar 20th, '11, 21:47

This is sort of off topic to everyone's discussion at the moment...but
who is that boy that has a crush on SAEKI?
Do you know the actor's name? He looks so familiar, but I don't know where I've seen him. Its really bugging me. They are giving him too much screen time, so I have a feeling I will be seeing him in dramas to come. But I don't think this is the first time I've seen him..so does anyone recognize him? Maybe he just looks familiar to me since he looks like a guy version of http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Okamoto_Rei_%281991%29 her?

Update: Ah, finally found his name. http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Nakajima_Kento Its him right? From Johnny's Entertainment. That explains why he is given unnecessary screen time.

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 21st, '11, 02:55

@LaLaLaDRAMA - I think that is him. He's wearing glasses in the drama and his hair is different. I was wondering the same thing about him too. Ep 9 should be airing tomorrow in Japan. Viki will have subs available later in the week. I can't wait!
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Post by Meijin » Mar 21st, '11, 03:25

I heard there were subs outside d-addicts. Could anyone tell me where I can find those?

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 21st, '11, 05:44

Meijin wrote:I heard there were subs outside d-addicts. Could anyone tell me where I can find those?
Viki.com if you want to view the drama online.
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Post by Meijin » Mar 21st, '11, 06:21

Hm, I'm not really a fan of online streams. I prefer highest quality RAWs with softsubs :P
The reason I'm asking for subs outside d-addicts, is bcs someone previously posted in this thread, that there were subs all the way up to episode 8.
So he/she was talking about the viki.com subs? I guess there are no softsubs, hm? :(

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Post by donna8157 » Mar 23rd, '11, 08:09

I also hope he ends up with Saeki! :)

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Post by kimutaku144 » Mar 25th, '11, 02:58

I way behind you guys because I follow TLS's hardsub. But I love this drama. I wasn't in the beginning, but as the story progress I feel it more like a tense suspense than romantic drama :p especially since I don't know what to expect.

I'm like Emi as Saeki, she's really good for new comer, I didn't expect there'll be more depth in her character but I was wrong. Saeki is really still a teenager, making decision like one. However, Natsumi character is strong, determine and iron woman. She's hurts yes, but she's making all the logical decision for her future and people she loves, may not always the right one, but it's logical. I don't blame Shuji's decision either, it's just a process of being mature, nothing to do with position in the society (i.e. teacher) or age.

I don't know what the ending will be but I don't want to root to any of them, just go with the writer's imagination .. hehehehehe...

I can't wait to see more, but I'm patience waiting for the next hardsubs from TLS :D ... I feel doki doki each time I watching this, exactly the same feeling as I got from Nagareboshi. Getsu 9 drama daisuki desu!

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Post by Momosodapop » Mar 25th, '11, 12:46

Just thought that I should share this, the OST :)
Credit: J-MP3

Image

Artist : 林有紀 [Hayashi Yuki]
Title(Album) : 大切なことはすべて君が教えてくれた
Release Date : 2011.03.02

Tracklist

1. Prelude
2. 大切なことはすべて君が教えてくれた
3. PR&CP
4. Gohan Project
5. ひとり
6. cocoro
7. AmberSky
8. flow
9. GG-Pizz
10. Again and Again
11. GA-Rock
12. Doubt
13. N-P-M
14. ふたり
15. GG-Ethno
16. Illusions
17. N-P-D
18. REX2-Pizz
19. Subconscious
20. TDWP
21. REX2-Rock
22. Call my name
23. IISTH
24. Never Said
25. REX2-Guitar
26. Consideration
27. March
28. Tears
29. sakura

Genre : Pop , OST
Bitrate : 320kbps

DOWNLOAD!!!

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Post by Loki » Mar 25th, '11, 19:22

Okay, so I am now finally 9 episodes in and I totally forgot that d-addicts is an awesome place to discuss dramas! Anyway, here are some of my thoughts -

BTW This drama made me think so much.
First of all, I have this love/hate relationship with the show's writer(s). It seems like they took that next step of teachers caring for the students, but afterwards it is only a teacher caring for his student. What I like is that they really got me to root for the Shuji and Hikari couple to get together. But after a lot of thinking, I would think that those relationships are weird and probably won't work.
-why would he get a train just to tell Hikari not to say goodbye? His care for her is a little weird. I can see Hikari letting him go as she has matured well in the series.

My problem is that I don't really like Shuji and Natsumi together. I didn't feel like they were ever really good together. I am looking forward to seeing how their talk will go in the last episode. Although I do think they will end up together, I hope it won't be a sappy ending where Shuji tells Natsumi that he wants to be with her even if she wasn't pregnant, and always has wanted to be with her.
-the biggest shock ending would be him ending with Hikari, but I wonder how they would ever work that out?
Sorry for my long rant!

EDIT: Forgot to say this earlier. Takei Emi is a really good young actress. She pretty much steals the series for me

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 25th, '11, 22:17

The writer is at fault with this drama. There could have been more twists and turns like episode 9 when

Shuji jumped on the train. He was clearly thinking with his heart and not with his head. He is in denial, he has fallen already for Saeki. That is why it's so easy for him to treat Natsumi without care or concern. I feel sorry for Natsumi, he never loved her and getting pregnant doesn't FORCE someone to love you either. So sad for the seemingly "mature" one, she's not so mature after all. It's the writer's fault anyhow.

The scene where they are in the auditorium or gym wherever and they are lined you and Natsumi catches Shuji in a daze staring at Saeki! Natsumi looked like she was going to burst into tears when Shuji looked her way. That had to be heart-wrenching for her to see the father of her unborn child glaring in love at a younger prettier girl.:cry: Blame it on the writer!!

Shuji and Saeki need each other. They need to develop a relationship and go through some hard times together and settle down, get married and have a family of their own. IMO :lol
Is there only 1 episode left?! I don't see how it could end because it doesn't seem like there is a decent plot developed yet :crazy: Oh well, Shuji doesn't deserve either one BUT I am still cheering for the love couple - Saeki and Shuji! Woo hoo! :heart:
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Post by Loki » Mar 25th, '11, 22:46

iluvasiandrama wrote:The writer is at fault with this drama. There could have been more twists and turns like episode 9 when

Shuji jumped on the train. He was clearly thinking with his heart and not with his head. He is in denial, he has fallen already for Saeki. That is why it's so easy for him to treat Natsumi without care or concern. I feel sorry for Natsumi, he never loved her and getting pregnant doesn't FORCE someone to love you either. So sad for the seemingly "mature" one, she's not so mature after all. It's the writer's fault anyhow.

The scene where they are in the auditorium or gym wherever and they are lined you and Natsumi catches Shuji in a daze staring at Saeki! Natsumi looked like she was going to burst into tears when Shuji looked her way. That had to be heart-wrenching for her to see the father of her unborn child glaring in love at a younger prettier girl.:cry: Blame it on the writer!!

Shuji and Saeki need each other. They need to develop a relationship and go through some hard times together and settle down, get married and have a family of their own. IMO :lol
Is there only 1 episode left?! I don't see how it could end because it doesn't seem like there is a decent plot developed yet :crazy: Oh well, Shuji doesn't deserve either one BUT I am still cheering for the love couple - Saeki and Shuji! Woo hoo! :heart:
I absolute love when Shuji decides to do something. But it always ends up unsatisfying
which leads to these unresolved relationships with the females.

Just wondering though, do you think if Shuji went to Saeki Hikari that it would really last?

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 25th, '11, 23:01

@ Loki - Shuji is so confused and he is also confusing others too :crazy:
Yes but I think that they would have to go through hardships but they could make it work because they both have the same void. You can tell Shuji is strongly attracted to Saeki but he can't figure out why his heart won't catch up with his head. If his head tells him, he would go with Natsumi, but if it's his heart then he would go for Saeki.

Saeki senses his attraction and that is why she is so honest with him and she tells him how she is feeling because she knows he is falling for her. I think that their relationship would be so loving and caring because that is how it is starting out to be already.

Wouldn't it be a shocker for Saeki and Shuji to secretly elope and then she gets pregnant by Shuji too!? :w00t:
:lol Now THAT would be SWELL!!!! hehehehe :cheers:
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Post by Loki » Mar 26th, '11, 00:14

iluvasiandrama wrote:@ Loki - Shuji is so confused and he is also confusing others too :crazy:
Yes but I think that they would have to go through hardships but they could make it work because they both have the same void. You can tell Shuji is strongly attracted to Saeki but he can't figure out why his heart won't catch up with his head. If his head tells him, he would go with Natsumi, but if it's his heart then he would go for Saeki.

Saeki senses his attraction and that is why she is so honest with him and she tells him how she is feeling because she knows he is falling for her. I think that their relationship would be so loving and caring because that is how it is starting out to be already.

Wouldn't it be a shocker for Saeki and Shuji to secretly elope and then she gets pregnant by Shuji too!? :w00t:
:lol Now THAT would be SWELL!!!! hehehehe :cheers:
Good insight. You know I was looking for reasons on why they should be together because
she was the one who made Shuji hesitate in his life (with his upcoming marriage, the worth of a teacher). I just felt that from a perspective out an outsider within the series, their relationship just seems like it shouldn't go further than a teacher and student. But I think the whole change he has made, like you said in the last episode, he didn't think and just got on that train, could hopefully lead him in Saeki's direction.

Now I am really looking forward to who he can pick. I thought before it would be Natsumi for sure, but am rooting for Saeki a bit more now. (Although it seems the path he seems to take all the time will lead him to being alone haha)

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 26th, '11, 00:23

@ Loki - I know but I don't want to admit it about the path Shuji is taking... it seems that he will end up that way. That will make this drama typical though, that's how they always end. I hope this one will be different. I have a feeling you're right though :(
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Post by LaLaLaDRAMA » Mar 26th, '11, 07:00

Hmm... I guess I am the only one that thinks differently of Shuji's intention.
I think at first Shuji was confused at why he felt the need to protect Hikari. He couldn't tell whether it was because he unknowingly had an attraction for her, or cared for her as a student. But I think as the episodes went on, I think it was very clear that he just genuinely cares for Hikari as a student. He can't leave her alone, because he doesn't want her to feel unwanted. Intuitively, he knows that he is the only person that can help her. But I don't think its love. The way he looks at her, you can clearly tell that he is just concerned for her well being and looks at her as a student, not as a love interest. And he even clearly draws the line, so there isn't any misunderstanding. I think the title says it all. "Taisetsu na Koto was kimi ni subete oshiete kureta" I think the title is meant for Saeki. Even though Shuji is the teacher, he learned all important things from Saeki, the student. He learned to be more honest, open, and to stand up for himself. He even realized how much Natsumi means to him. This is basically what he needed before he married Natsumi. Because in the beginning, it is very clear that Natsumi is too mature for Shuji. But now, he has grown so much, and is at a place where he can finally think about marriage. I think in the end, Saeki will be able to stand on her own ( I think something will happen between the glasses guy), and Shuji will finally be able to express his feelings to Natsumi (tell her that he loves her, without having any doubts). Well, thats how I think the drama will end.

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Post by yuizaki_libra » Mar 26th, '11, 08:34

LaLaLaDRAMA wrote:Hmm... I guess I am the only one that thinks differently of Shuji's intention.
I think at first Shuji was confused at why he felt the need to protect Hikari. He couldn't tell whether it was because he unknowingly had an attraction for her, or cared for her as a student. But I think as the episodes went on, I think it was very clear that he just genuinely cares for Hikari as a student. He can't leave her alone, because he doesn't want her to feel unwanted. Intuitively, he knows that he is the only person that can help her. But I don't think its love. The way he looks at her, you can clearly tell that he is just concerned for her well being and looks at her as a student, not as a love interest. And he even clearly draws the line, so there isn't any misunderstanding. I think the title says it all. "Taisetsu na Koto was kimi ni subete oshiete kureta" I think the title is meant for Saeki. Even though Shuji is the teacher, he learned all important things from Saeki, the student. He learned to be more honest, open, and to stand up for himself. He even realized how much Natsumi means to him. This is basically what he needed before he married Natsumi. Because in the beginning, it is very clear that Natsumi is too mature for Shuji. But now, he has grown so much, and is at a place where he can finally think about marriage. I think in the end, Saeki will be able to stand on her own ( I think something will happen between the glasses guy), and Shuji will finally be able to express his feelings to Natsumi (tell her that he loves her, without having any doubts). Well, thats how I think the drama will end.
Yes, finally someone who also thinks that
this drama will end with Shuji and Natsumi being together. I have always been convinced of this since the beginning of the series, and forever rooting for Natsumi. However, I interpret the title quite differently. I think it's not only meant for Hikari, but more for Shuji who, like you said, was immature and over-dependent on Natsumi when this drama started off. The "kimi" in here, I interpret it as Natsumi - who has faith in him, and allows him to rightly choose his path. The reverse goes for Natsumi, who has learnt about love, marriage and more about Shuji, which will be crucial for their (I think) marriage later on.
The only problem here is, I don't know what Shuji is gonna say to Natsumi so that the two of them will be back together (in my supposed ending, anyway) that can possibly explain the lack of thoughts Shuji spends for Natsumi throughout the series. It's gotta be some darn good line and excuse, or else I'm not persuaded.

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 26th, '11, 08:49

It's time for some Natsumi defending up in here. :salut:
As opposed to earlier in the drama where there were barely any ShujixSaeki shippers, it seems that I am now one of the few ShujixNatsumi shippers here. I've heard arguments from both sides, and some of them sort of surprised me because it seemed like it was taken out of context. There was a comment about how Natsumi hides things and uses the baby as an excuse to try to get Shuji back. In truth, remember how surprised she was when she found out? It obviously wasn't a "keep Shuji" tactic because she even hoped for a miscarriage so she wouldn't have to suffer raising it without Shuji. Only when Aya told her that she loves living for someone else did she decide to raise it as a SINGLE mother, hence, without Shuji. The only reason she told him is because she felt, as the father, he had a right to know. She only waited because she DIDN'T want him to feel obligated to stay with her. Also, who in this drama HASN'T had secrets? Shuji tried to keep his pseudo-affair from Natsumi, the one Saeki PURPOSELY let everyone believe Shuji had until episode 5. As for the "pity card," would Shuji have cared so much for Saeki had it not been for what she'd been through? In the beginning, he wanted nothing to do with her until he learned about her "dark past," which is why I feel he wants to be more of her support than her lover. Also, I'm not saying she purposely talked about her past and inferiority complex for pity, but accusing Natsumi of fishing for sympathy and ignoring Saeki's circumstances seems like a double-standard. Also, having a child out of wedlock, especially when you were soon going to get married (she was 7 weeks when she found out I believe DURING the whole Saeki incident) isn't that bad; I mean, it's her FIANCEE. Birth control doesn't always work either, which I assume she used. Finally, if a baby out of wedlock seems unethical, how come going for a student who obviously isn't mature enough for such a profound relationship doesn't? (Just finished episode 6 by the way, so I'm behind.) Natsumi is obviously the most mature one because she doesn't deny that she has feelings for Shuji (since if you recall they were set on MARRIAGE before Saeki started the drama), but still gives him the choice--yes, the CHOICE--to decide if he will ever love her as much as she does him. I think it's possible, but he just needs to mature. As he said in episode 6, Natsumi is an adult and he's still a child. The most ANNOYING aspect to him really. He better man up faster or else it will warp my vision of Haruma. :glare: (Okay, not really. :wub: )


Sorry for it being long, but everyone was suddenly looking at Saeki as the "poor student who makes Shuji a man" and no one seemed to be looking at Natsumi's side. Also, while this sounds biased, I've ONLY used facts from what I've seen in the drama, and only the end contains my opinion (as well as the instance of the whole "caring for Saeki as a student" bit). My first post and it OBVIOUSLY had to involve Haruma in SOME way...(Not that I'm complaining. :roll )

Oh, and in terms of the title, I personally feel it can apply to all of them. It seems Saeki and Natsumi learn from Shuji and vice-versa.
Last edited by haruma_obsessed on Mar 26th, '11, 08:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Momosodapop » Mar 26th, '11, 08:52

LaLaLaDRAMA wrote:Hmm... I guess I am the only one that thinks differently of Shuji's intention.
I think at first Shuji was confused at why he felt the need to protect Hikari. He couldn't tell whether it was because he unknowingly had an attraction for her, or cared for her as a student. But I think as the episodes went on, I think it was very clear that he just genuinely cares for Hikari as a student. He can't leave her alone, because he doesn't want her to feel unwanted. Intuitively, he knows that he is the only person that can help her. But I don't think its love. The way he looks at her, you can clearly tell that he is just concerned for her well being and looks at her as a student, not as a love interest. And he even clearly draws the line, so there isn't any misunderstanding. I think the title says it all. "Taisetsu na Koto was kimi ni subete oshiete kureta" I think the title is meant for Saeki. Even though Shuji is the teacher, he learned all important things from Saeki, the student. He learned to be more honest, open, and to stand up for himself. He even realized how much Natsumi means to him. This is basically what he needed before he married Natsumi. Because in the beginning, it is very clear that Natsumi is too mature for Shuji. But now, he has grown so much, and is at a place where he can finally think about marriage. I think in the end, Saeki will be able to stand on her own ( I think something will happen between the glasses guy), and Shuji will finally be able to express his feelings to Natsumi (tell her that he loves her, without having any doubts). Well, thats how I think the drama will end.
Totally agree with you to every bits!!! LaLaLaDRAMA :-)
I can't see how Shuji has an affection for Hikari and to be honest... I don't really want to.
You too haruma_obsessed Love your comment!!! You took the words right out of my mouth.

I am little bit behind because I wait for hardsubbed version from Timelessub, so now I'm still at episode 6. I prefer to watch HQ file than watching streams at Viki.
I also have watched raws up to episode 9 lol even I don't really understand everything they said but I can catch the overall story.
For now, I don't understand why someone would think that Natsumi decided to keep the child because she wanted to get Shuji back :-(
Like... if she really wanted to do that why wait after six months to tell him that she is pregnant? She decided to break up with him instead of trying to keep him in this struggling relationship.
Even though Natsumi wants Shuji to be with her so bad but she understands the situation so well that she should back off.
Or maybe I'm being too optimistic...

That I said I am rooting for Natsumi doesn't mean that I want her to be with Shuji in the end but I just feel that I really sympathize her feeling.
Just want her to get through all of this and be happy in the end somehow.

For all this time, I feel that Natsumi isn't the right one for Shuji and vice versa.
Natsumi is too mature for Shuji(and she also knows that), like what Shuji said in the end of episode 6 "She was a grown up and I was a child"
Let's see how it goes, they will end up back together or he will be alone. Will Shuji be a better man? Can't wait for the ending~
Ending my rant of defending Natsumi lol
I'm so in love with the OST right now especially the first track "Prelude" It's beautiful :wub:
Last edited by Momosodapop on Mar 26th, '11, 09:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by yuizaki_libra » Mar 26th, '11, 08:58

haruma_obsessed wrote:It's time for some Natsumi defending up in here. :salut:
As opposed to earlier in the drama where there were barely any ShujixSaeki shippers, it seems that I am now one of the few ShujixNatsumi shippers here. I've heard arguments from both sides, and some of them sort of surprised me because it seemed like it was taken out of context. There was a comment about how Natsumi hides things and uses the baby as an excuse to try to get Shuji back. In truth, remember how surprised she was when she found out? It obviously wasn't a "keep Shuji" tactic because she even hoped for a miscarriage so she wouldn't have to suffer raising it without Shuji. Only when Aya told her that she loves living for someone else did she decide to raise it as a SINGLE mother, hence, without Shuji. The only reason she told him is because she felt, as the father, he had a right to know. She only waited because she DIDN'T want him to feel obligated to stay with her. Also, who in this drama HASN'T had secrets? Shuji tried to keep his pseudo-affair from Natsumi, the one Saeki PURPOSELY let everyone believe Shuji had until episode 5. As for the "pity card," would Shuji have cared so much for Saeki had it not been for what she'd been through? In the beginning, he wanted nothing to do with her until he learned about her "dark past," which is why I feel he wants to be more of her support than her lover. Also, I'm not saying she purposely talked about her past and inferiority complex for pity, but accusing Natsumi of fishing for sympathy and ignoring Saeki's circumstances seems like a double-standard. Also, having a child out of wedlock, especially when you were soon going to get married (she was 7 weeks when she found out I believe DURING the whole Saeki incident) isn't that bad; I mean, it's her FIANCEE. Birth control doesn't always work either, which I assume she used. Finally, if a baby out of wedlock seems unethical, how come going for a student who obviously isn't mature enough for such a profound relationship doesn't? (Just finished episode 6 by the way, so I'm behind.) Natsumi is obviously the most mature one because she doesn't deny that she has feelings for Shuji (since if you recall they were set on MARRIAGE before Saeki started the drama), but still gives him the choice--yes, the CHOICE--to decide if he will ever love her as much as she does him. I think it's possible, but he just needs to mature. As he said in episode 6, Natsumi is an adult and he's still a child. The most ANNOYING aspect to him really. He better man up faster or else it will warp my vision of Haruma. :glare: (Okay, not really. :wub: )


Sorry for it being long, but everyone was suddenly looking at Saeki as the "poor student who makes Shuji a man" and no one seemed to be looking at Natsumi's side. Also, while this sounds biased, I've ONLY used facts from what I've seen in the drama, and only the end contains my opinion (as well as the instance of the whole "caring for Saeki as a student" bit). My first post and it OBVIOUSLY had to involve Haruma in SOME way...(Not that I'm complaining. :roll )

Oh, and in terms of the title, I personally feel it can apply to all of them. It seems Saeki and Natsumi learn from Shuji and vice-versa.
Haha, you registered a new account to chip into the conversation :)). That's intense.
Agree with the major number of your points. I'm really looking forward to how it all pans out ^^

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 26th, '11, 09:12

yuizaki_libra wrote: Haha, you registered a new account to chip into the conversation :)). That's intense.
Agree with the major number of your points. I'm really looking forward to how it all pans out ^^
I know right? I feel like such a loser for actually doing that, but my friend and I just finally got into the drama again, so I'm pumped on it now. >///< (I'm just glad registration is so easy here and I don't have to "verify my email" like most sites, which pleasantly surprised me.) 4 more episodes (for me)!!! Can't wait to see them!! >:D

Also, this has nothing to do with pairings (which may be refreshing) but am I the only one who enjoyed how the writers went about character design and plot?
Some people are complaining about no twists and others are disliking how immature Shuji, Natsumi, or Saeki are. Personally, if there were too many twists, it would either be an M. Night Shaymalan movie or a novella. My friend and I were talking about how we enjoyed that this created drama, but tried no to OVER do it. (Sure there were those scenes where Natsumi CONVENIENTLY showed up RIGHT when Shuji and Saeki did, but it IS still a drama.)

Also, I think their initial characters are purposely lacking in the beginning so as to fit the title of the drama. They're meant to learn what's important throughout the hardships they conquer. Shuji was, in my opinion, intentionally made the weakest character because he would have both Natsumi AND Saeki to learn from, so it was meant to create a sharper contrast to the stronger man (I hope) he's to become. Maybe now it doesn't seem like he's taking much charge, but when you compare it to the beginning, there's such an obvious difference. (His complacency was emphasized by the fact that if Natsumi didn't want to "do it," she would kick him and the one who's more in love is at a disadvantage, which we actual now see is Natsumi.)

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Post by yuizaki_libra » Mar 26th, '11, 09:28

haruma_obsessed wrote:
Also, this has nothing to do with pairings (which may be refreshing) but am I the only one who enjoyed how the writers went about character design and plot?
Some people are complaining about no twists and others are disliking how immature Shuji, Natsumi, or Saeki are. Personally, if there were too many twists, it would either be an M. Night Shaymalan movie or a novella. My friend and I were talking about how we enjoyed that this created drama, but tried no to OVER do it. (Sure there were those scenes where Natsumi CONVENIENTLY showed up RIGHT when Shuji and Saeki did, but it IS still a drama.)

Also, I think their initial characters are purposely lacking in the beginning so as to fit the title of the drama. They're meant to learn what's important throughout the hardships they conquer. Shuji was, in my opinion, intentionally made the weakest character because he would have both Natsumi AND Saeki to learn from, so it was meant to create a sharper contrast to the stronger man (I hope) he's to become. Maybe now it doesn't seem like he's taking much charge, but when you compare it to the beginning, there's such an obvious difference. (His complacency was emphasized by the fact that if Natsumi didn't want to "do it," she would kick him and the one who's more in love is at a disadvantage, which we actual now see is Natsumi.)
Well it has always been Natsumi from the beginning. :))

I personally enjoy this drama, not because there are pairings (which may have kept me on the edge of my seat sometimes), but because there are choices, a lot of them, and growth of characters. The story isn't stagnant; it actually develops into something not-quite-predictable. For a drama like this, what is important is not the twist and turn, but thoughts and insights and developments in the complicated relationships among the protagonist and the two ladies.

I'm quite satisfied with the drama so far, just hoping the ending will live up to my expectations.

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Post by «minah» » Mar 26th, '11, 13:27

haruma_obsessed wrote:It's time for some Natsumi defending up in here. :salut:
As opposed to earlier in the drama where there were barely any ShujixSaeki shippers, it seems that I am now one of the few ShujixNatsumi shippers here. I've heard arguments from both sides, and some of them sort of surprised me because it seemed like it was taken out of context. There was a comment about how Natsumi hides things and uses the baby as an excuse to try to get Shuji back. In truth, remember how surprised she was when she found out? It obviously wasn't a "keep Shuji" tactic because she even hoped for a miscarriage so she wouldn't have to suffer raising it without Shuji. Only when Aya told her that she loves living for someone else did she decide to raise it as a SINGLE mother, hence, without Shuji. The only reason she told him is because she felt, as the father, he had a right to know. She only waited because she DIDN'T want him to feel obligated to stay with her. Also, who in this drama HASN'T had secrets? Shuji tried to keep his pseudo-affair from Natsumi, the one Saeki PURPOSELY let everyone believe Shuji had until episode 5. As for the "pity card," would Shuji have cared so much for Saeki had it not been for what she'd been through? In the beginning, he wanted nothing to do with her until he learned about her "dark past," which is why I feel he wants to be more of her support than her lover. Also, I'm not saying she purposely talked about her past and inferiority complex for pity, but accusing Natsumi of fishing for sympathy and ignoring Saeki's circumstances seems like a double-standard. Also, having a child out of wedlock, especially when you were soon going to get married (she was 7 weeks when she found out I believe DURING the whole Saeki incident) isn't that bad; I mean, it's her FIANCEE. Birth control doesn't always work either, which I assume she used. Finally, if a baby out of wedlock seems unethical, how come going for a student who obviously isn't mature enough for such a profound relationship doesn't? (Just finished episode 6 by the way, so I'm behind.) Natsumi is obviously the most mature one because she doesn't deny that she has feelings for Shuji (since if you recall they were set on MARRIAGE before Saeki started the drama), but still gives him the choice--yes, the CHOICE--to decide if he will ever love her as much as she does him. I think it's possible, but he just needs to mature. As he said in episode 6, Natsumi is an adult and he's still a child. The most ANNOYING aspect to him really. He better man up faster or else it will warp my vision of Haruma. :glare: (Okay, not really. :wub: )


Sorry for it being long, but everyone was suddenly looking at Saeki as the "poor student who makes Shuji a man" and no one seemed to be looking at Natsumi's side. Also, while this sounds biased, I've ONLY used facts from what I've seen in the drama, and only the end contains my opinion (as well as the instance of the whole "caring for Saeki as a student" bit). My first post and it OBVIOUSLY had to involve Haruma in SOME way...(Not that I'm complaining. :roll )

Oh, and in terms of the title, I personally feel it can apply to all of them. It seems Saeki and Natsumi learn from Shuji and vice-versa.

Thank you.... because ti seem like everyone forgot what Saeki did initially.
Pretended that she had sex with her teacher AND was pretty much bullying Natsumi (well being a jerk to her for virtually no reason other than the fact she's engaged to Shuuji.) I thought I was the few who only saw Shuuji pretty much pitying Saeki than really "falling" for her. He may think he fell for her... but really what would be the reason he did? Because she finds him attractive? Or he is misinterpreting his pitying feelings for o lover's attraction? She pretty much spews pity to him "It's ok if I'm alone... because I'm use to it!" Well when someone says that, they are saying it for 2 reasons: To either honestly say that/expressing their feelings with no intent behind it or to say it expecting someone to actually care or react a certain way (...to pretty much say "No you're not! I'm here for you!" and I think it's the ladder of the 2) She probably at first thought, "Oh well... still.... Sensei wouldn't follow me." but noticed that he has been and I think she slowly does certain things to keep him around because she likes the attention. This is still in a way makes Shuuji irresponsible. (and pretty much how all of these dramas things get misunderstood) Because how he says "I will always be here for you... that's why I came back to school!" it can be taken 2 ways: Because he wants to be with her in a lover's way or he wants to be with her in a supportive, teacher's way (who feels bad about her past) Regardless though, it's stuff like that can be taken out of context and can be easily misunderstood, giving people false hopes of feelings and stuff. He needs to make himself clear in his meaning behind the words. (that still makes him a bit immature... he's not seeing it from different perspectives... that could be the "honesty" he has...)

But why would people want Shuuji and Saeki together? That's only gonna start another Majo no Jouken... Even if he quits being a teacher.... still has that teacher thing hovering over him. It's really gonna be another story in itself. And yeah, like someone else who is also following the TLS subs, I am too and finally saw episode 6. Where are people getting at Natsumi wanting to keep Shuuji with the baby? Like someone said why would Natsumi wait to tell him after 6 months? Actually, how could he not have noticed when he returned to school? The clothes that she wore... she's not hiding that much (and surprised the students didn't notice either) I dunno I just have the feeling that some people don't like Natsumi's good-nature/stealing her man or something.... and likes Saeki's trying to mess with Natsumi... just like how someone in a previous thread actually liked Saki in Utsukushi Rinji and didn't like Eriko's trusting, perfect, goody two shoes self. The only thing I can say about the faux sex is that everyone is reevaluating themselves because if it never happened then imagine how Natsumi and Shuuji would be.

Shuuji is still really annoying... I still feel as though the characters are typical despite the gradual change. Maybe it's because I watched so many dramas I don't get surprised with what certain characters do because well.... it's kinda like I saw it before. The only one who surprises me the most is Natsumi but at the same time she doesn't... I feel as though I can relate to her in a way... and that's why she surprises me becasue I don't expect her to make certain choices. But yeah....
I'm glad there are some people at least defending Natsumi.... not saying Haruma should be with her (I actually think he shouldn't be with either of them but in the end, but depending on what happens with Natsumi's... yeah..... Haruma will be with her for a long time.)
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Post by manlekim » Mar 26th, '11, 16:16

Okay, I registered for this forum just to make some comments on this drama too. Everyone has their biases so I just want to put it out there that I'm Saeki biased. I like Saeki because I pity her circumstances, which does not excuse her like many of you have said, of what she has done. At first I wanted Saeki and Shuji to be together because I liked the chemistry between the two characters. I can feel for them more since there scenes together makes me cry. Its not until I watched episode 9 and saw the preview for episode 10 that I don't mind an ending where Saeki can move on from Shuji and Shuji can finally be with Natsumi. Saeki needs to get over her trauma and inferiority complex and Shuji has helped her overcome that obstacle. In the course of helping her, he has grown to become a man that deserves Natsumi. Its going to be a happy ending for everyone!

About the title, I don't know who it is referring to in the drama. It could be any one or all of them I guess.

What really got me excited for this drama is Emi Takei. I liked watching her in GOLD and liked her even more in Taisetsu na Koto wa Subete Kimi ga Oshiete Kureta. I hope people don't hate her because of the character she plays.

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 26th, '11, 16:52

The hidden spoiler below is just my discussion and opinion about this drama and I know that it is just make-believe/fantasy and drama is not real so please if you are sensitive-type don't read the hidden spoiler below, it's just my personal reflection of the drama, plot, story, etc.. that's all. :D

Now that I think about it, I agree with some of you because...
Saeki deserves better than Shuji. She deserves a CEO or millionaire type that will do everything for her and pamper her for the rest of her life. Let Natsumi have Shuji and his crappy ways. She's the "mature" one that can handle his childishness and indecisiveness. He's a dirtbag so yeah let Natsumi have him since she wants him so bad.

Can you imagine him with a kid?! Natsumi to Shuji: "Can you warm the bottle please" Shuji to Natsumi: "I'll do it when I get back, i just got a call from Saeki (or another student or love interest) and I have to help them!" Natsumi to Shuji: "Ok Shuji, I'll be here waiting for you when you return" Natsumi warms the bottle, takes out trash, clean house and Shuji returns home and tells her that he is not sure he wants to stay in the marriage/relationship with her but wants to still raise his child... KICK ROCKS DUDE!!:cussing:

I can see it happening just like that because there was no "puppy love" in-love type stuff with HIM BEFORE SAEKI even did what she did.

It was only Natsumi in love from the start. I think she is pitiful and that's all Shuji feels for Natsumi is pity and sorrow not love. If he ends up with her, that's all it is... pity. What an insult to Natsumi though, it takes a young student to show your fiance how to be a man...insulting! Then you BOTH are not ready for marriage... :lol
The strange thing about this drama is I can no longer watch any drama where Toda Erika is a lead actress. For some reason I was completely turned off by her character in this drama. They should have cast Takeuchi Yuko for the part of Natsumi. I will totally join the Emi Takei fanclub and look forward to seeing her in many dramas! :cheers:
Oh well, I think the ending will be disappointing for me but I am still cheering for the soulmate love couple Shuji and Saeki :heart: til the end... no matter what :lol
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Post by «minah» » Mar 26th, '11, 17:45

iluvasiandrama wrote:The hidden spoiler below is just my discussion and opinion about this drama and I know that it is just make-believe/fantasy and drama is not real so please if you are sensitive-type don't read the hidden spoiler below, it's just my personal reflection of the drama, plot, story, etc.. that's all. :D

Now that I think about it, I agree with some of you because...
Saeki deserves better than Shuji. She deserves a CEO or millionaire type that will do everything for her and pamper her for the rest of her life. Let Natsumi have Shuji and his crappy ways. She's the "mature" one that can handle his childishness and indecisiveness. He's a dirtbag so yeah let Natsumi have him since she wants him so bad.

Can you imagine him with a kid?! Natsumi to Shuji: "Can you warm the bottle please" Shuji to Natsumi: "I'll do it when I get back, i just got a call from Saeki (or another student or love interest) and I have to help them!" Natsumi to Shuji: "Ok Shuji, I'll be here waiting for you when you return" Natsumi warms the bottle, takes out trash, clean house and Shuji returns home and tells her that he is not sure he wants to stay in the marriage/relationship with her but wants to still raise his child... KICK ROCKS DUDE!!:cussing:

I can see it happening just like that because there was no "puppy love" in-love type stuff with HIM BEFORE SAEKI even did what she did.

It was only Natsumi in love from the start. I think she is pitiful and that's all Shuji feels for Natsumi is pity and sorrow not love. If he ends up with her, that's all it is... pity. What an insult to Natsumi though, it takes a young student to show your fiance how to be a man...insulting! Then you BOTH are not ready for marriage... :lol
The strange thing about this drama is I can no longer watch any drama where Toda Erika is a lead actress. For some reason I was completely turned off by her character in this drama. They should have cast Takeuchi Yuko for the part of Natsumi. I will totally join the Emi Takei fanclub and look forward to seeing her in many dramas! :cheers:
Oh well, I think the ending will be disappointing for me but I am still cheering for the soulmate love couple Shuji and Saeki :heart: til the end... no matter what :lol
Well that would be spoil-ish for Saeki to be spoiled in a relationship (regardless of her past) because a relationship takes to people doing things for each other... not being spoiled (as we can kinda see with the initial couple)
But you have to remember that Natsumi and Shuuji have been together since forever... they're past that puppy love thing (puppy love last for about... what... maybe a year?) So they're not gonna show how crazy in love they are. I can only say how much they could have both been in love if I saw how they were in school. But I just see Shuuji pitying Saeki though. And it didn't have to be Saeki to do all of this.... it really could have been anyone. Just the fact it's a student is suppose to make the story juicy, that's all.
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Post by manlekim » Mar 26th, '11, 18:09

Hi minah, looking from the drama perspective, I don't think it could have been anyone that makes Shuji changed. Remember how Natsumi told Saeki that it is because Saeki was there that Shuji could not run away from his problems. Shuji may just pity Saeki because of the things she went through, but there is no denying that there is a connection between the two of them. They can talk together like friends and Shuji can express what he is feeling towards Natsumi to Saeki. He does not talk about his problems to any of his students.

And it is obvious by now that the person Shuji loves is Natsumi. Even with the presence of his ex-girlfriend and Saeki, Shuji still remains loyal to Natsumi. This is the part that the writers did well, they showed us through trial and error, Shuji has changed and become a stronger partner for Natsumi.

Sorry for the long rant!

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 26th, '11, 18:25

@ Minah - I don't want to say this but I have to agree with you.
In the beginning of this drama Natsumi was obviously more in love and still is than Shuji but I guess that is what Saeki is doing, teaching him how to love. I hope he falls in love with Saeki but he is so.... IDK... this is frustrating. I wish that I could email the writer :lol

I know that you're right in predicting how this will all end and I'm just not happy with it that's all. What a crappy story! I don't want to say it but now that I am thinking about it this story SUCKS! crap! But I still have to watch it for Saeki's sake. I want her to be ok and well cared for that's all. Natsumi has everything so she will be ok. What about Saeki?!
This is pissing me OFF!!! :cussing::alcoholic:
I wish for an interesting different ending for a change, I guess... I am still cheering for the soulmate love couple Shuji and Saeki :heart: til the end...:(
Last edited by iluvasiandrama on Mar 26th, '11, 18:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 26th, '11, 18:33

Well, as for this whole "teaching Shuji to be a man" and Shuji having no backbone--isn't that what this drama is about? He's supposed to change and learn. He's learned not only from Saeki, but from Natsumi, too. Also, from this, Natsumi has matured a lot, realizing that she can't run everything in the relationship or there is no relationship. And as for Saeki...Well, just imagine what she would be like if Shuji HADN'T finally decided to face her. <_<; Again, I think Shuji is the least sympathized person (and while It hurts me to say that because of Haruma), and I agree. At this point, you can't pity him because, until recently (and it took him damn long enough), he had done nothing to change the circumstances he was in. Even when he started working for his parents, he was already prepared to just stick to it instead of take himself back to school. I've been pushing the idea that this is for character growth, but yeah, I can see that the writers went overboard on his pushover personality. Most of the first episodes were just him either with his head down or his eyes freakishly wide. He barely even said anything!! My friend and I were even joking about "Dude, I think the Shuji's a superfluous character; it seems like he's only there to be a link to the tension between the two girls." "Yeah, it's like the writers were like, 'Crap, we need a reason for them to hate each other...Quick!! Stick in a hot guy between them!!'" And that was it. Not one of Miura's best roles, I'll say that...(Well, not so much not one of his best roles, but just that for once you can't sympathize with his character much. I'm going to go watch Kimi ni Todoke now to change that.)
Also, my hopes for where this relationship is going.
I hope it's actually that Shuji and Natsumi were supposed to be together all along, and that this whole thing was solely meant to bring the flaws to their seemingly perfect relationship to light. Notice how in the beginning, everyone was talking about what an ideal couple they were and Shuji/Natsumi weren't even questioning the state of their relationship? I think THAT was the purpose of everything that's happened. It's meant to show that no relationship is perfect, and if you believe it is, then you're immature and not ready for it. They had to grow and adapt themselves to get to a place where the relationship works. While at this point Shuji does deserve to be alone and think about how a relationship should work, I hope he gets to the point where he sees his flaws and fixes them to go back to Natsumi.

It's hope it's like this with Shuji and Natsumi--beginning: seemingly perfect but obviously (to the audience) flawed relationship-->middle: drastic circumstances reveal flaws and while at first destroys relationship, characters later use it to fix themselves and their relationship-->end: characters finish initial growth and are now back in a stronger, healthier, more mature relationship.

Also, I don't see what the point of the nerd who likes Saeki. At first I was hoping he and she would end up together that way she's in a more appropriate relationship with someone else who can make her feel like a girl, but so far--NOTHING! The thing I like about this drama is while it has twists, the writers don't pull them out of their @$$es because they're always foreshadowed in some way. They better not suddenly bring out the nerd as a love interest without any prior development just because he's a Johnny... :glare:

Oh, and a funny thing about twists is that my friend and I were hoping Shuji was drugged or something, but we also had the fear that they never really slept together. When Saeki said "I..." I paused it and said if she says she never slept with him, I'm going to shoot someone. *glares at friend* (I didn't know she was going to admit it yet.) Then I play and she finishes with "...never slept with Teacher." I paused and we both immediately screamed, me out of frustration and my friend out of a mixture of that and fear. XD
Last edited by haruma_obsessed on Mar 26th, '11, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by «minah» » Mar 26th, '11, 18:55

manlekim wrote:Hi minah, looking from the drama perspective, I don't think it could have been anyone that makes Shuji changed. Remember how Natsumi told Saeki that it is because Saeki was there that Shuji could not run away from his problems. Shuji may just pity Saeki because of the things she went through, but there is no denying that there is a connection between the two of them. They can talk together like friends and Shuji can express what he is feeling towards Natsumi to Saeki. He does not talk about his problems to any of his students.

And it is obvious by now that the person Shuji loves is Natsumi. Even with the presence of his ex-girlfriend and Saeki, Shuji still remains loyal to Natsumi. This is the part that the writers did well, they showed us through trial and error, Shuji has changed and become a stronger partner for Natsumi.

Sorry for the long rant!
Not saying there's no connection (but it doesn't mean it's love) but still, it could have been a woman or fellow female teacher (not a student)
to meet him in a bar or whatever, and follow him back home. The woman probably had her own problems and feels lonely... so spends the night and lies about having sex. Shuuji never payed any attention to Saeki if it wasn't for the faux sex... if he never woke up to her in his bed, none of this would have happened. But I bet he would have still acted the same if it was any other woman in his bed. He would act just as clueless as ever. If Natsumi and the other woman met at the same time like how Saeki, Shuuji and Natsumi did in the hospital, he would have still been pushed around... let the other woman do whatever. Just like haruma_lover said, he has no backbone. Is that Natsumi's fault? Not really... she was probably too motherly, but in the end he's his own person.... an adult and should know how to take care of himself. He reminds me kinda of someone I know. The most baby-est boy from my college. (didn't know so many basic stuff... because his parents baby-ed him) but in the end, he has to take care of himself. He should be aware of what he should or shouldn't do.

But yeah, it really could have been another female and maybe not the same result would happen (since it is a student) but it wouldn't be any better. His character is someone who needs to practice what he preaches... pretty much. He tells his students they should do this and that..... but doesn't do it himself.

Going by the previews of episode 7, I don't like how Saeki pushed the one guy aside. "I don't need you pity!" but she's um.... kinda getting Shuuji's pity. Isn't that a bit messed up? Someone who actually likes her (and isn't being all duh about like Shuuji) confesses but she rather reject him and go after a TEACHER who is gonna/might be a father (and don't really know if the feelings are one-sided not) So yeah... well, only judging from the previews but I think I'm pretty much in the ballpark with Saeki's double-standard feelings.
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 26th, '11, 19:30

iluvasiandrama wrote:
In the beginning of this drama Natsumi was obviously more in love and still is than Shuji but I guess that is what Saeki is doing, teaching him how to love. I hope he falls in love with Saeki but he is so.... IDK... this is frustrating. I wish that I could email the writer :lol

I know that you're right in predicting how this will all end and I'm just not happy with it that's all. What a crappy story! I don't want to say it but now that I am thinking about it this story SUCKS! crap! But I still have to watch it for Saeki's sake. I want her to be ok and well cared for that's all. Natsumi has everything so she will be ok. What about Saeki?!
It sort of seems you're judging this drama by how Saeki's luck turns out and not by the character development they're going through. By the end of this drama, I think Saeki is SUPPOSED to have learned to be strong without Shuji like how Natsumi's trying to do. I realize that you want Shuji and Saeki to be together, but I don't see how that would be good aside from the fact that "Shuji understands her." What happens if it doesn't work out or something happens to Shuji? Then she's just left alone again. Shuji is teaching her to not be like that so she can continue living happily without believing she's alone. Also, just because Saeki had a traumatic life doesn't mean she should get everything she wants or be spoiled. That's a horrible way to live because it corrupts. There's a reason they call it "spoiling." It "spoils" the integrity of the person. (Ha...punny...) Anyway, all I'm saying is that you seem to be painting Saeki as the saint with nothing and Natsumi as the brat with everything. How so? She might have lost her fiancee and father of her child, but she's learning to deal with it. If Shuji ends up with Saeki (given that the process is legitimate and not total BS), I wouldn't be happy, but I would still think it's a good drama.

Also, when you said "Wouldn't it be a shocker for Saeki and Shuji to secretly elope and then she gets pregnant by Shuji too!? :w00t:" It doesn't seem like you're applying the previous drama episodes to the situation. He was torn up and ashamed just for sleeping with the student ONCE. To do it again and get her PREGNANT--what would have been the whole point to the drama? They might as well have ended it the first episode with Shuji saying, "Oh hey, I seem to feel more attracted to you than my fiancee. Since I already slept with you, why don't we just get married?"
Why are all my posts SO~ long!? oAo

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 26th, '11, 19:54

@ haruma_obsessed - It's not me it's the writer. That's how they wrote the story
Natsumi has it all career, soon to be husband, oops pregnant, loving parents, and friends and Saeki is the child not wanted, only one recently met friend, disgraced by a major health and identity crisis as a woman that has to be torture to take pills to ensure proper gender identity, lack of parental love, divorced parents, no siblings living, frequent trips to the nurse/doctor.. what a way to be a teenager! I didn't make all of this up, seriously... it's in the writing.


I don't think that I have been this involved in a jdorama before. Which means that it is a good watch and I am not saying that it is bad that I can't watch it again, well depends on the ending... IDK I wish that I would have skipped this drama and watched something else like I intended to do from the start. Now I'm hooked and it's only because of Saeki, I really want her to be okay and not end up with
the scary NERD BOY! :lol She would walk all over him because he is too wimpy, cute but wimpy...
Aigoo... I need another drink...:alcoholic:
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Post by LaLaLaDRAMA » Mar 26th, '11, 20:28


I don't think that I have been this involved in a jdorama before. Which means that it is a good watch and I am not saying that it is bad that I can't watch it again, well depends on the ending... IDK I wish that I would have skipped this drama and watched something else like I intended to do from the start. Now I'm hooked and it's only because of Saeki, I really want her to be okay and not end up with
the scary NERD BOY! :lol She would walk all over him because he is too wimpy, cute but wimpy...
Aigoo... I need another drink...:alcoholic:
HAHAHAHA! That is so messed up. I have a feeling by the end of episode 10, Saeki would have matured enough to give him a chance. I mean, all the unnecessary screen time that "scary NERD BOY" received, it must be for some purpose. Unless, the directors were persuaded to give him exposure.

But I like the girl that plays SAEKI. As someone mentioned, I recognized her in GOLD. I just love her voice, since I don't get annoyed when she cries etc. Some other actresses, omg, I would have probably been so annoyed with the redundant pity me role. She really has a strong presence, and her beauty is not something that gets tiring, like some other pretty actresses, and her acting is very natural.

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 26th, '11, 23:23

iluvasiandrama wrote:
Natsumi has it all career, soon to be husband, oops pregnant, loving parents, and friends and Saeki is the child not wanted, only one recently met friend, disgraced by a major health and identity crisis as a woman that has to be torture to take pills to ensure proper gender identity, lack of parental love, divorced parents, no siblings living, frequent trips to the nurse/doctor.. what a way to be a teenager! I didn't make all of this up, seriously... it's in the writing.

:
Yes, but does that mean that just because she had a good life she doesn't deserve to be in a relationship where both partners love each other or that Saeki deserves to get whatever she wants? Everyone has hardships, much of hers being linked to her inferiority complex which it seems that Shuji is trying to eliminate, in which case will help with a lot of her psychological issues. Saeki bluntly denied nerd boy just because she assumed it was pity, and, as another said, she's having a double-standard because it's obvious Shuji pities her, too. If she's not willing to work on other relationships by the end of the drama, then that would be the worst relapse of character development ever. She can't just cling to Shuji the whole time--it's not healthy.

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Post by «minah» » Mar 26th, '11, 23:37

iluvasiandrama wrote:@ haruma_obsessed - It's not me it's the writer. That's how they wrote the story
Natsumi has it all career, soon to be husband, oops pregnant, loving parents, and friends and Saeki is the child not wanted, only one recently met friend, disgraced by a major health and identity crisis as a woman that has to be torture to take pills to ensure proper gender identity, lack of parental love, divorced parents, no siblings living, frequent trips to the nurse/doctor.. what a way to be a teenager! I didn't make all of this up, seriously... it's in the writing.


I don't think that I have been this involved in a jdorama before. Which means that it is a good watch and I am not saying that it is bad that I can't watch it again, well depends on the ending... IDK I wish that I would have skipped this drama and watched something else like I intended to do from the start. Now I'm hooked and it's only because of Saeki, I really want her to be okay and not end up with
the scary NERD BOY! :lol She would walk all over him because he is too wimpy, cute but wimpy...
Aigoo... I need another drink...:alcoholic:
Do we even see Natsumi's parents? (I haven't seen them yet...) we only see her having one friend... But the point that is' being missed is Natsumi has to be at least 23+.. Saeki is only 16 What Natsumi has so far well... she probably worked for it. It would be a different story if we saw her interaction with her parents, saw how she was during college (and see if she was spoiled and gave everything to her) and see how she was with Shuuji. But certainly Natsumi doesn't have it all (if she did, she wouldn't be in the predicament that she's in now) But you can't compare a 23+ woman with a 16 year old high school girl if we don't know the whole background with Natsumi. The only thing we really know of Natsumi's past (well at least up to 6 anyway) is that she and Shuuji knew each other since they were young and had a class together at the same school they teach at. The writers are just trying to give a pity story to make the audience not feel so negative toward Saeki in the beginning of the series (because um... she did lie and was a bit two-faced) It's trying to make the audience to kinda see from her perspective, but regardless of her background.... it was still jerkish and b*tchy of her to lie about having sex, be a jerk to her crush's fiancé, and wait for a long time to tell Shuuji that they didn't even have sex. I think people are giving Saeki too much credit in this series.

I wouldn't excuse her actions... What she did got a teacher suspended, wreck their marriage (along with Shuuji pretty much messing that up by not clearly stating his feelings) and well... kinda have the class not like her. Just to have that picture on her phone with the chance of someone in class seeing it (which already happened) I mean really... she should know herself how serious that is for a teacher to be caught sleeping with a student. But she thinks it's cute to blackmail him. That's not even funny.... it's totally selfish on her part, regardless of her "being alone" "not being a real woman" and all the other stuff the writers try to throw at us to make us feel bad for her. I've been around people who have eff-ed up lives too.... but you don't go around doing serious, illegal, potentially messed up stuff that can not only affect you, but others around (like it did here) That's someone's job she could have ruined even more (he could have gotten arrested). But yeah... like in Guilty, yeah Miho's character was messed up and what happened to her past was very awful (and frame and all) but it doesn't excuse the murders she planned.... (but the show was setup from the start to understand that and know not to excuse her revenge.... but to have people see from the perspective of that... but this was carried out better than this show)
Didn't think my post would get long either... guess we all get passionate when we share our opinions or something lol
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Post by manlekim » Mar 27th, '11, 00:36

Hi haruma_obsessed, I think your right about the double standard in Saeki's character. I don't know what is up with the writers making her actions at times hard to understand. The only explanation I could come up with is her jealousy towards Natsumi fueling her early actions in the drama (episodes 1-7). Then as we move on to episodes 8 and 9, we can see that she is letting him go. The only problem was inner feelings betraying her. She still feels lonely inside but kept a fake smile on her face so that Shuji does not worry about her anymore.

The writers should have spent more time developing the nerd boy's interaction with Saeki so we get to see that she has some feelings for him. The repeats of him falling down whenever he sees her gets annoying sometimes.

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Post by yuizaki_libra » Mar 27th, '11, 00:39

@manlekim please use spoiler tag, cos many of us here have watched until ep 6 only ^^. Thanks.

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 27th, '11, 01:20

:lol Everyone is so opinionated about this drama! Even my sis wants to get in on it hehehe. Ok, I will just say this :argue: :mrgreen:
Saeki is 16, so she will do childish things, we all understand that. I did when I was 16, mean spoiled bratty childish stupid stupid things. But we have to remember that this is a DRAMA everyone...it's just drama and it is difficult to make sense of a drama because as much as we think and rationalize the meaning of it all, we really don't know the writer's intent. Just going by the title of the drama we are making assumptions and they ALL sound logical to me. But, when I think about it, it is insulting to say that Natsumi should be with Shuji because it takes men much longer to "get it" and one girl (student) can't cure his indecisiveness and lack of care or concern. He is totally dissing Natsumi while he is being "taught" to be a man by a 16 year old school girl. He is the freaking jerk and so is Natsumi a jerk for wanting to be with his stupid @$$.

Yes, there is an episode that briefly shows Natsumi's parents. It's when Shuji's parents went to kowtow on behalf of their childish son. Her parents looked liked they really cared about their daughter and they were devastated. Natsumi is respected by her peers and co-workers and made friends with Saeki's nurse/doctor and has a friend who is the wedding coordinator. Natsumi even has a rich guy who is willing to marry her and he knows that she is pregnant. 16 year olds can have all of the things Natsumi has at 23 except maybe the fiancee, but then it depends. But saying that Natsumi worked for it all, as in earned everything she has, nah I don't buy it.(no pun intended :mrgreen: )

So the writer is making it very obvious that Natsumi's got it all, is surrounded by loving people and Saeki, nope don't have it. It appears to be the underlying thrust of the drama. That is the reason why Shuji is so drawn to Saeki.

Remember the episode when he told Saeki that he was the favored child and got everything good that he didn't deserve and his brother didn't? Well that explained alot about why he was starting to care so much about Saeki. It was almost as if he compared his fiancee having everything (like himself) to Saeki having nothing (like his brother at home).

I think he wants to do things over and correct things from his childhood and his relationship with Natsumi but he is choosing to do this with Saeki and it should be Natsumi. He is a confused little boy trapped in a man's body. :roll

According to the synopsis, Saeki did not know that Shuji was her teacher, or even a teacher at all, until she got to class the next day and who walks in... So none of them knew each other. Saeki did not know Shuji or Natsumi and vice versus. She approached him at the bar as if he was a "random Joe" she didn't have a clue who he really was when she slept in his bed. She didn't know that he was engaged and didn't know that his fiancee was pregnant with his child. So when Saeki finds out that this guy is a teacher, her homeroom teacher, AND that he is engaged to another teacher at the same school who has a baby in tow... She reacted like the immature 16 year old girl she is. She tried to control the situation because she was beyond embarrassment and humiliated.

The writer didn't intend to have a 16 year old girl react as a 23 year old woman would. It just doesn't make a good drama and not typical in real life either. There are some mature 16 year olds but most are not. Especially in my high school, there were so many that did/act way worse than what Saeki did. :(

Saeki, has health and mental issues, the girl is taking those freaking meds all day long it seems and always at the clinic just to ensure her gender is in tact. So her behaviors are expected to be immature and inconsiderate and that is why the writer put it in the script.

Yes, what Saeki did in regards to disrespecting Natsumi after she found out who Shuji and Natsumi were, was absolutely wrong. Saeki apologized for it and I think the humiliation she is enduring is enough punishment. From the moment she confessed in front of her classmates and teachers/officials that she is only a girl when she takes those freaking pills and that she slept in his bed and intended to leave but didn't, when her classmates ridiculed and bullied her, when she missed school and when she returned just to greet more humiliation, her dad split on them and her mom treating her like crap, and then a teacher who keeps breaking plans with his fiancee to be with her (Saeki) even when she tells him he doesn't have too.. she's just joking and he insists on being there for her well that's playing with her emotions so much that she and I too, thinks he is falling for her...dude come on! The loneliness she has to endure too... this girl is sorry and is being punished big time :stress: :crazy:
Wow it took me like 45 minutes to write that! Saeki deserves the happiest ending... whatever they can do, they need to pull out all the stops for her. I can't believe there is just one more episode. There has to be a SP in the works! :lol Saeki-chan FIGHTING! :cheers:
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Post by «minah» » Mar 27th, '11, 02:27

Well this comment is pretty much responding to iluvasiandrama's comment. I've noticed that you commented on some of my previous posts too (some stuff I kinda agree... I see it from that perspective.... but I guess I still have mine too...) Everyone is just viewing this drama in different ways... it's kinda interesting. There's nothing wrong with people debating over a drama.... who cares if we already know they're not suppose to logical (because well... why are we on here anyway? It's kinda fun in a way.... until people take it too far then you do have to remind them it is a show.... ^^;;)
I don't think Natsumi is a jerk for wanting to still be with Shuuji... I think foolish (I didn't get far yet) but not a jerk.

I didn't get to the episode with Natsumi's parents so I'm only going by what I've seen so far. I still think Natsumi still worked for where she is now.. (she wasn't just handed a diploma, degree, and a job....) Even if she was brought up in a caring home, well... doesn't mean that she's spoiled. She seems like a smart person (not sure about emotionally) so she knows how to act around certain people and behave herself.

Actually, Saeki did know he was a teacher... that's why she followed him (translation of the synopsis could be wrong or the writers decided to change the direction of the story in the middle of the series because she very much knew who he was.) She had a crush on him ever since he talked about the snail/slug thingy... which was like the year before. It was Shuuji who didn't know she was a student. So she knew very well what she was doing... (I dunno... sometimes people do over-estimate teens.... just if they think they're adult/mature enough to have sex then they should have common sense & maturity with other stuff as well. Reminds me of Dave Chapelle's "How old is 15 really?" because people have many context of what being a teen is...)

And again, I can only go by TLS (up to eppy 6) No one knows Natsumi is pregnant... and I think she knew that Natsumi and Shuuji was pregnant (the whole school knows... she's not a new student to the school.) Since she knew who Shuuji was before the start of this series and knew he was a teacher, then there's a 90% chance of her knowing Natsumi & Shuuji were/are engaged. Saeki didn't react like how any 16 year old girl would at the start of the series.... she acted like a jealous female who wants something that belongs to someone else. Being a jerk to Natsumi, blackmailing Shuuji (threatening to ruin the engagement...) she pretty much acted like a stalker in the beginning of the series... obsessed with Shuuji (it was kinda creepy....) (and if Saeki knew it was wrong for Shuuji to be called and treated the way he was after it was found out a student stayed in his room she said then she has sense to know what's right and wrong for being 16 and is not that much completely immature...

But I still think regardless of what Saeki is going through though... it just... doesn't excuse anyone for being immature. Yeah it's really bad for her but man... it's not like she lacks a brain. Her brain and thinking process isn't affected by her condition. Actually I think the writers seem, well to me anyway, a bit inconsistent with her character. Because she pretty much acted like a vixen... kinda put on a front with being a jerk (slapping Natsumi, the looks and stuff she said to shuuji) but when crap hits the fan, her attitude is a 180. Before the exposure, it actually seem like she had confidence... she was really determined to get Shuuji. Now... she's suppose to be the most pitied girl in the story? She's supposedly has no confidence and feels helpless? I dunno either they intended to do that (the writers) or didn't because her attitude and personality turned a 180. I'm not sure if it's because she feels all embarrassed or what... but I dunno... like I said she just has different faces among certain people... I dunno...

But the things that happened to Saeki like her parents divorce and the thing with her sister well... that didn't have anything to do with class. She didn't have to be bullied. Just the fact she stayed with a teacher (doesn't matter if he's engage or not) well... is already trouble and a big mess. That part she honestly brought that upon herself. But she liked him and wanted to stayed the night in his room... then lie that they did it. Don't think it's right to bring up what happened in her past to prove she is sorry for what she did. Yeah without her past, she probably wouldn't have to to that decision to do what she did.... but that was one less thing she had to do though. She didn't have to sleep with him. She brought more of that loneliness on herself (the majority of the students now are probably just Natusmi-lovers or something... so of course they won't like her) And I bet Saeki likes the fact that Shuuji is picking her instead of Natsumi... didn't she like tell Natsumi in an earlier episode that he will be hers or something? I think Saeki is only sorry that he got expose by the school and didn't really intend for that to happen.

I don't think Saeki should have the happiest ending... I think she should have at least an ending that is content, appropriate and deserving. I don't think it would be fair to spoil Saeki like that.
I know I have some thoughts in there that aren't well developed... sorry (I also need to go to bed soon ^^;;) and wish I could elaborate more but I'm such a bad explainer...
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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 27th, '11, 02:57

Well, there are different synopsis and spoilers about
the bar scene and whether or not Saeki really knew who Shuji and Natsumi were prior too her sleeping in his bed. I might be wrong in my previous comment about Saeki not knowing, but different sources say different things. So I wanted to clear that up on my part, if I was wrong about that.
I am exhausted too... I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens on episode 10. :-(
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 27th, '11, 03:41

Yeah, Saeki did know he was a teacher based on the drama, not any synopsis. But, I know for SURE that there is no excuse for doing such a horrible thing. I mean, Shuji was put through so much because of Saeki, and even when it was found out that he wasn't responsible for it, he STILL got in trouble. He didn't even KNOW that Saeki stayed over. He fell asleep and she just snuck in. And she was obsessed, because she slept with that other man just because he looked a bit like Shuji. And Shuji never said he didn't deserve the things he got. He only said that he never realized his brother's feelings. He had expectations, so he constantly had to work for what he had to meet those expectations. While having no expectations is hard, you can be smothered by them, too. And in agreement to what minah said: she brought a lot of misfortune upon herself through HER foolish actions. You can say sorry for that, but it's not so easy to forgive, as this drama has tried to show us. Shuji was sorry, too, but he ended up getting ridiculed and pushed down by his own students who not long ago LOVED him (and he didn't even do anything). The writers know that Saeki had to be punished because everyone else suffered because of her. It wouldn't be justice if she got away with that. And the reason that Natsumi is loved by everyone is because she doesn't do anything to make them so upset with her. Also, I don't see why Saeki needs the happiest ending. She wasn't a saint. As far as I know, Natsumi has been the only one so far who hasn't done anything really wrong. (Technically Shuji, hasn't either, but he's too indecisive, which in itself is bad enough.) And the reason I don't think Natsumi is spoiled is because she is willing to give Shuji to Saeki, if that's what makes him happy. Again, as the drama said, she is someone who loves living for others, so I'd say she's really self-sacrificing based on that statement.

Also, this is the only drama where I got the feeling that it was like the girl wanted to rape the guy. Every scene with Saeki in the beginning of the drama seemed like she was cornering Shuji like that. (And Shuji was acting like such a girl in distress, too.) He either looked like it was about to happen or just did, but that just goes to show what a stronger presence Saeki was. Poor Shuji. XD And Natsumi shouldn't feel ashamed that Saeki is showing Shuji how to be more of a man, because Natsumi is, too. She's causing him to make decisions about the route of their relationship and is also pushing his growth--it's not just Saeki.

One last thing: from the perspective of someone only 2 years older, Saeki is pretty stupid. With all the people she told, did she really not expect the school to eventually find out? She told the NURSE for Pete's sake. I can EASILY predict where the situation she created would have gone, and the fact that she left her cellphone was stupid. (If I had such a dark secret on my phone, I would have it with me at ALL TIMES and LOCKED. For someone who was so calculating in the beginning, she makes a lot of stupid, but seriously dire mistakes.
And yes, I know that I only defend Natsumi, but that's because I'm still mad at Saeki for what she did because she never really suffered for it. She just stays in the nurse's office and doesn't even face the classmates who she also managed to hurt. >x<

I'm tired too and going to bed soon, so sorry that my post is so sporadic and has no real fluidity.

@iluvasiandramas
I just have to ask: what is you reason for liking Saeki so much?

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Post by manlekim » Mar 27th, '11, 04:57

Thanks yuizaki_libra! Sorry for not putting what I said in the spoiler mode.

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Post by ComaPrison » Mar 27th, '11, 05:30

I support both Saeki and Natsumi. I don't want just one of them to have a happy ending. I want Natsumi to have a happy ending because she deserves it, but I also want Saeki to have a happy ending because she has gone through a lot of really bad stuff.

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Post by Loki » Mar 27th, '11, 08:18

haruma_obsessed wrote:
Yeah, Saeki did know he was a teacher based on the drama, not any synopsis. But, I know for SURE that there is no excuse for doing such a horrible thing. I mean, Shuji was put through so much because of Saeki, and even when it was found out that he wasn't responsible for it, he STILL got in trouble. He didn't even KNOW that Saeki stayed over. He fell asleep and she just snuck in. And she was obsessed, because she slept with that other man just because he looked a bit like Shuji. And Shuji never said he didn't deserve the things he got. He only said that he never realized his brother's feelings. He had expectations, so he constantly had to work for what he had to meet those expectations. While having no expectations is hard, you can be smothered by them, too. And in agreement to what minah said: she brought a lot of misfortune upon herself through HER foolish actions. You can say sorry for that, but it's not so easy to forgive, as this drama has tried to show us. Shuji was sorry, too, but he ended up getting ridiculed and pushed down by his own students who not long ago LOVED him (and he didn't even do anything). The writers know that Saeki had to be punished because everyone else suffered because of her. It wouldn't be justice if she got away with that. And the reason that Natsumi is loved by everyone is because she doesn't do anything to make them so upset with her. Also, I don't see why Saeki needs the happiest ending. She wasn't a saint. As far as I know, Natsumi has been the only one so far who hasn't done anything really wrong. (Technically Shuji, hasn't either, but he's too indecisive, which in itself is bad enough.) And the reason I don't think Natsumi is spoiled is because she is willing to give Shuji to Saeki, if that's what makes him happy. Again, as the drama said, she is someone who loves living for others, so I'd say she's really self-sacrificing based on that statement.

Also, this is the only drama where I got the feeling that it was like the girl wanted to rape the guy. Every scene with Saeki in the beginning of the drama seemed like she was cornering Shuji like that. (And Shuji was acting like such a girl in distress, too.) He either looked like it was about to happen or just did, but that just goes to show what a stronger presence Saeki was. Poor Shuji. XD And Natsumi shouldn't feel ashamed that Saeki is showing Shuji how to be more of a man, because Natsumi is, too. She's causing him to make decisions about the route of their relationship and is also pushing his growth--it's not just Saeki.

One last thing: from the perspective of someone only 2 years older, Saeki is pretty stupid. With all the people she told, did she really not expect the school to eventually find out? She told the NURSE for Pete's sake. I can EASILY predict where the situation she created would have gone, and the fact that she left her cellphone was stupid. (If I had such a dark secret on my phone, I would have it with me at ALL TIMES and LOCKED. For someone who was so calculating in the beginning, she makes a lot of stupid, but seriously dire mistakes.
And yes, I know that I only defend Natsumi, but that's because I'm still mad at Saeki for what she did because she never really suffered for it. She just stays in the nurse's office and doesn't even face the classmates who she also managed to hurt. >x<

I'm tired too and going to bed soon, so sorry that my post is so sporadic and has no real fluidity.
Good post. I agree that Saeki did a lot of bad stuff until it almost snowballed out of control. But I pulled a "Shuji" and fell for what the series did and felt really sorry for her at the same time. And to add for effect, what kind of drama would it be if we 100% knew for sure that Shuji would end up with Natsumi. Saeki was there to put doubt in their relationship. And I think people like her because after all that evil stuff she did in the beginning, she is a bit better after all that stuff.


ComaPrison wrote:I support both Saeki and Natsumi. I don't want just one of them to have a happy ending. I want Natsumi to have a happy ending because she deserves it, but I also want Saeki to have a happy ending because she has gone through a lot of really bad stuff.
I am totally with you on this, ComaPrison.
After all that everyone has been through (especially Saeki, who seems like she was never happy), I really hope things end well.
Well since we are coming up to the last episode, predictions anybody? I know I have convinced myself of what is going to happen. And for all the posts before that have been talking about the ending -I tried to read through, but skimmed through only. Sorry about that!

I guess to make it easier I will do it like this
Saeki -will finally "let go" of Shuji. He goes to her because she is always alone and helpless, so she has to somehow show him she has matured. Probably will get a friend or two in her new school
Natsumi -wants Shuji to be happy no matter what
Shuji -realizes Natsumi was always supporting him, so now he will finally return to do the same
kid with glasses who likes Saeki -I think he gets a shot with her. The preview had him looking at his phone and being really happy. Maybe in that way Saeki isn't all alone?

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 27th, '11, 14:04

haruma_obsessed wrote: @iluvasiandramas
I just have to ask: what is you reason for liking Saeki so much?
Because she apologized and is trying to make it right. Her character is getting the typical expected back-lashing and judgmental criticism, except the small minority of us who believe that a person can be forgiven for mistakes they make. There is always hope for someone who is trying no matter how small to overcome their mistakes.

And I refuse to believe that the writers would be that stupid to leave Saaeki's immature character high and dry because many still have a bad impression in their mind of her, but maybe that can't be helped. There are still some actresses/actors that I can't watch because they played bad characters before.

It's easy to judge someone who does terrible things, but it is so hard to forgive them and then let it go. :-(

She's only 16, she still has more mistakes and stupid decisions to make. Those kinds of things will actually make her a more mature and well rounded person later on in life. She will be able to learn valuable life-lessons because of things done to her and things she did to others.

If this drama ends as most people predict, then the title really wouldn't make sense, not after watching episode 9.

Episode 9, Shuji called Natsumi to tell her that he was escorting Saeki, he told her that was still choosing Saeki over Natsumi. That's when Natsumi told him, "we need to talk dude."

I just can't see how Shuji and Saeki can mature to the levels of being with others in just one more episode. I don't think the original intent was to cut this drama at 10 episodes that's why they didn't update the episodes until a few days ago.

Right now, the only ending that makes sense, after watching episode 9 is that Shuji walks...solo.


Emi-chan/Saeki-chan fans! FIGHTING!
:cheers:
Now watching: Need to find some new dramas

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 27th, '11, 18:03

@iluvasiandramas
I don't mind Saeki's actress, because when I see actors playing really different roles (like Sato Takeru for example: Kamen Rider Den-O vs. Bloody Monday), I just respect them that much more. The only thing is that the only actors I really pay attention to are Sato Takeru/Miura Haruma and actors closely related to them (like their friends or people from the same agency). I haven't been watching Jdramas--or dramas in general--for very long. >///<
The only thing that annoys me is that Saeki is only trying to make up for her actions with Shuji. She never ONCE (from the episodes I've seen, which is up to 6) tried to ask forgiveness from her classmates or from Natsumi. She only went on like nothing happened. As Shuji said with the other girls during that whole "Profile Ranking" episode, you have to earn forgiveness--saying sorry isn't going to cut it. Saeki just hides from the class. When Shuji was being punished, he faced his students in the classroom and even left the haven of the staff room to answer their questions. Just because she had a pitiful life can't excuse it, or else every person who commits a bad act would easily be forgiven if they did it because of a hard life (including criminals). An exception can't be made for just Saeki.

Now, when Saeki starts to make up for her actions not only with Shuji, but everyone she hurt, THEN I will forgive her. However, I really can't stand Saeki's mother...As for where her relationships go, I think 16 is too young to be in a serious relationship anyway. As we know, she's still immature and prone to mistakes. I want Saeki to first gain good friendships so that when she does go through hardship, she has a sturdy support foundation. I think Saeki deserves a happy ending, but ONLY IF she tries to make things right for herself and the people she hurt by facing her mistakes. Then I will finally start to REALLY like her. (I still think Natsumi deserves Shuji, though, because she's trying to sacrifice so much for the happiness of others, and it doesn't seem fair that she loses one of the only things she's really wanted since the beginning of the drama--the baby is the other thing she really wants, though.) I swear, if the writers make Natsumi have a miscarriage, I will be PISSED.:x

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 27th, '11, 18:19

@ haruma_obsessed - :lol I laughed at the end of your post because I think everyone is pissed at the writers, no matter what the outcome... we all dislike aspects/characters in this drama. Although I didn't like Natsumi's character, I can't say that I hate Erika because she was good in other dramas I watched. I'll watch her again, only in stronger roles.

Well, if nothing else this drama has introduced me to Emi-chan and I am her new #1 dedicated cheering fan. I even created several pages for her already on different sites. So no matter what the ending to this drama, I'm happy :D
Now watching: Need to find some new dramas

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Post by «minah» » Mar 27th, '11, 19:49

...why would anyone want either of those girls to end up with Shuuji lol. I don't care if he's being played by Haruma, Shuuji is too immatuure. I'm not cheering for anyone because well..Shuuji is a crappy prize. I think what people are missing with Shuuji and Saeki is:
She's still a minor... he's still a teacher. He would either have to wait for her to be 18 or 20... or he would have to quit teaching. Isn't that ab it messed up for him to quit his job, rid of many other things for a 16 year old girl who still pretty much effed him all up... effed up his life since the beginning in the drama. (he made it worse by how he responded) I dunno with any relationship... why start it off as dishonest? Who is to say that maybe he would leave Saeki for someone else if he already did it once? (once someone does something... there really isn't anything stopping them from doing it again... kinda like cheating)

And Natsumi.... I relate to her because my ex was very immature so it's tiresome to have to baby your boyfriend (and feel as though they don't appreciate what you do for them) She's bound to shuuji now because of her pregnancy... And because in Japan there is no split custody, they will either have to work it and try to be together (SHuuji get his act together) or fight for custody. The negative thingy I have toward Natsumi is trying to forget what happened.... because when people try to "forget" you remember even more. I can't forget how someone majorly hurt me... and I don't think it's fair to tell someone to get over certain things. What happened now affects how you are presently. So I don't like that she tried to put it behind her as if nothing happened because it did and ignoring it will not make it go away. Too bad it won't be easy for Natsumi to split from Shuuji... ;_;
I agree with pretty much what haruma_lover says
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 28th, '11, 04:54

«minah» wrote:...why would anyone want either of those girls to end up with Shuuji lol. I don't care if he's being played by Haruma, Shuuji is too immatuure. I'm not cheering for anyone because well..Shuuji is a crappy prize.
I know!! oAo I had to go watch Koizora, Kimi ni Todoke, AND Bloody Monday 1/2 to get this weak character out of my mind!! (Also a bit of Negative Happy Chainsaw Edge. <w<) I REALLY hope Haruma isn't this much of a pansy in real life, or I will SERIOUSLY feel bad for his girlfriend. (Okay, I won't feel THAT bad, because it's still Haruma and there's no way these events would actually happen in his life. <w<)

He's like the sterotypical female protagonist in a shoujo. Let everyone fight over him while he does virtually NOTHING, and yet they still want him. BLEH!! :hissy: Seriously Shuji--MAN UP, FOR WHAT'S LEFT OF YOUR DIGNITY IS AT STAKE!! D:< (It actually hurt me to say this because...well...just look at the username...T^T)

As a side-note, when I start watching more dramas and later look for dramas for certain actresses as well as actors (which should happen, since I used to only look for dramas for Miura Haruma and THAT'S expanded), I'll be sure to remember Saeki and Natsumi's actresses. For now, the only actress that I really pay attention to in dramas is the main one from HanaKimi. (Her name escapes me now. >x<)

For once, no spoiler tag neccessary!!

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Post by Sakari » Mar 28th, '11, 06:15

About what gets the drama started, Saeki in Shuji's bed...
If Shuji cannot remember what happened and how she got there, he must have been so drunk as to be insensate. That, in turn, means that there could not have been actual intercourse. He could not have "had sex" with Saeki.
I wonder why Shuji doesn't realize this. A plot device?

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Post by yuizaki_libra » Mar 28th, '11, 07:17

Guys, I can't contain my anticipation for today's last ep :w00t:
Last ep's title is "Marriage". Do you think what I'm thinking?
:cheers:

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Post by Loki » Mar 28th, '11, 08:53

Sakari wrote:About what gets the drama started, Saeki in Shuji's bed...
If Shuji cannot remember what happened and how she got there, he must have been so drunk as to be insensate. That, in turn, means that there could not have been actual intercourse. He could not have "had sex" with Saeki.
I wonder why Shuji doesn't realize this. A plot device?
For sure it has to be a plot device. I was turned off by this too because
I'm sure Shuji knows what kind of person he is, and he doesn't do those kinds of things. He didn't really question the event but just seemed to accept the fact that it happened. But it was all for the good of the series. :)


yuizaki_libra wrote:Guys, I can't contain my anticipation for today's last ep :w00t:
Last ep's title is "Marriage". Do you think what I'm thinking?
:cheers:
With a title like that, it doesn't leave a lot to the imagination. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 28th, '11, 14:33

Sakari wrote:
If Shuji cannot remember what happened and how she got there, he must have been so drunk as to be insensate. That, in turn, means that there could not have been actual intercourse. He could not have "had sex" with Saeki.
I wonder why Shuji doesn't realize this. A plot device?
I think Shuji underestimated his intoxication. Other than the fact that it obviously had to happen that way for the story to progress ANYWHERE, he probably just assumed it was one of those drunk nights people talk about where they wind up sleeping with someone they normally would never do otherwise. When he said in the beginning how he remembered her and knew why she was there, I'm not sure if he was just trying to cover up that he didn't, or if he really did remember meeting her, but nothing afterwards.

Also, I doubt the first thing people think in this situation is, "Man I was wasted last night, so much so that there was NO WAY I could have physically contracted an erection. She must of just stayed in my house and then snuck into my bed after I passed out." That's CSI: Miami thinking.
I'm not even on the last episode yet. T^T (I'm still going to stick with TimeLesSubs for this one, because I really like the work they put into it. I believe they were on hiatus before they decided to work on this series. >///<)

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Post by «minah» » Mar 28th, '11, 17:17

haruma_obsessed wrote:
Sakari wrote:
If Shuji cannot remember what happened and how she got there, he must have been so drunk as to be insensate. That, in turn, means that there could not have been actual intercourse. He could not have "had sex" with Saeki.
I wonder why Shuji doesn't realize this. A plot device?
I think Shuji underestimated his intoxication. Other than the fact that it obviously had to happen that way for the story to progress ANYWHERE, he probably just assumed it was one of those drunk nights people talk about where they wind up sleeping with someone they normally would never do otherwise. When he said in the beginning how he remembered her and knew why she was there, I'm not sure if he was just trying to cover up that he didn't, or if he really did remember meeting her, but nothing afterwards.

Also, I doubt the first thing people think in this situation is, "Man I was wasted last night, so much so that there was NO WAY I could have physically contracted an erection. She must of just stayed in my house and then snuck into my bed after I passed out." That's CSI: Miami thinking.
I'm not even on the last episode yet. T^T (I'm still going to stick with TimeLesSubs for this one, because I really like the work they put into it. I believe they were on hiatus before they decided to work on this series. >///<)
Even with that... I hate how he even assume that he had sex with her... he didn't question it or anything. See, it's not always what a person do (well in this case...thought what they did)... but how they act afterward. And Shuuji is just as guilty cheating... the way he act towards Saeki when she was was around (even when Natsumi was around) it's just... nothing. Even after hearing he didn't do anything with her, he still hangs around her. Now any other Jdrama, there will be some highschooler hanging out at night and would have taken pictures of the two at night. I don't like how they still hang like that at night as if nothing happened because... well, that's the last thing you would do.
I think you were referring to Hori whatever Maki from Hana Kimi (I don't like her and like to forget she was in the show... she sucked as a guy or the other guys were just really stupid) I liked everyone else but the 2 leads (I forget Shun was in the show... I like him, he's a great actor, but he wasn't really that special in HanaKimi)
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Post by donna8157 » Mar 28th, '11, 18:41

Momosodapop wrote:
LaLaLaDRAMA wrote:Hmm... I guess I am the only one that thinks differently of Shuji's intention.
I think at first Shuji was confused at why he felt the need to protect Hikari. He couldn't tell whether it was because he unknowingly had an attraction for her, or cared for her as a student. But I think as the episodes went on, I think it was very clear that he just genuinely cares for Hikari as a student. He can't leave her alone, because he doesn't want her to feel unwanted. Intuitively, he knows that he is the only person that can help her. But I don't think its love. The way he looks at her, you can clearly tell that he is just concerned for her well being and looks at her as a student, not as a love interest. And he even clearly draws the line, so there isn't any misunderstanding. I think the title says it all. "Taisetsu na Koto was kimi ni subete oshiete kureta" I think the title is meant for Saeki. Even though Shuji is the teacher, he learned all important things from Saeki, the student. He learned to be more honest, open, and to stand up for himself. He even realized how much Natsumi means to him. This is basically what he needed before he married Natsumi. Because in the beginning, it is very clear that Natsumi is too mature for Shuji. But now, he has grown so much, and is at a place where he can finally think about marriage. I think in the end, Saeki will be able to stand on her own ( I think something will happen between the glasses guy), and Shuji will finally be able to express his feelings to Natsumi (tell her that he loves her, without having any doubts). Well, thats how I think the drama will end.
Totally agree with you to every bits!!! LaLaLaDRAMA :-)
I can't see how Shuji has an affection for Hikari and to be honest... I don't really want to.
You too haruma_obsessed Love your comment!!! You took the words right out of my mouth.

I am little bit behind because I wait for hardsubbed version from Timelessub, so now I'm still at episode 6. I prefer to watch HQ file than watching streams at Viki.
I also have watched raws up to episode 9 lol even I don't really understand everything they said but I can catch the overall story.
For now, I don't understand why someone would think that Natsumi decided to keep the child because she wanted to get Shuji back :-(
Like... if she really wanted to do that why wait after six months to tell him that she is pregnant? She decided to break up with him instead of trying to keep him in this struggling relationship.
Even though Natsumi wants Shuji to be with her so bad but she understands the situation so well that she should back off.
Or maybe I'm being too optimistic...

That I said I am rooting for Natsumi doesn't mean that I want her to be with Shuji in the end but I just feel that I really sympathize her feeling.
Just want her to get through all of this and be happy in the end somehow
I also think that in the end Shuji will stay with Natsumi. I think the ending credits of the series gives that away. (even though I have started to like Saeki more than Natsumi..hehe)

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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 28th, '11, 19:18

«minah» wrote:
Even with that... I hate how he even assume that he had sex with her... he didn't question it or anything. See, it's not always what a person do (well in this case...thought what they did)... but how they act afterward. And Shuuji is just as guilty cheating... the way he act towards Saeki when she was was around (even when Natsumi was around) it's just... nothing. Even after hearing he didn't do anything with her, he still hangs around her. Now any other Jdrama, there will be some highschooler hanging out at night and would have taken pictures of the two at night. I don't like how they still hang like that at night as if nothing happened because... well, that's the last thing you would do.
Yeah, Shuji really is such a stupid guy. Everyone else had more doubt than he did over the possibility that he really slept with her, and only Natsumi even bothered to seek the truth. (Hell, the STUDENTS tried more than he did by questioning him.) And that's why I say that the pity thing really affects his judgment. Personally, I can understand trying to help, because I know of many people who HATED Saeki in the beginning, but then liked her later because she had a hard life. I, however, say it's BS to wipe someone's slate clean because of something so irrelevant. At the time when Natsumi was still with him, Shuji didn't even care that Saeki paid no mind to the pain she caused her, and it's like nothing happened. To forgive is not to forget, and she hasn't done NEARLY as much as she should have to already gain his friendship and ESPECIALLY not his trust. How obnoxious these characters can be, even Natsumi with her early naivety...:glare:
«minah» wrote:I think you were referring to Hori whatever Maki from Hana Kimi (I don't like her and like to forget she was in the show... she sucked as a guy or the other guys were just really stupid) I liked everyone else but the 2 leads (I forget Shun was in the show... I like him, he's a great actor, but he wasn't really that special in HanaKimi)
I never saw her in HanaKimi (or not yet), but I knew she was in it. Although, yeah--the first thought in my mind was, "Okay, HOW are they going to believe that THIS is a boy?" And they still did...(The Chinese one at least looked much more convincing.) The main one I can remember seeing her in is Nobuta wo Produce. And you were right with Oguri Shun, because it seemed like all the side-characters vibrantly stole the show...Haa~h...I'm going to go watch Binbo Danshi to restore my faith in both Shun and Haruma...[/spoiler]

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Post by manlekim » Mar 28th, '11, 19:53

Reading everyone's posts made me realized that many people are very anti-Saeki.
I think people should give Saeki a second chance. She apologized for what she did and the reason she stayed in the nurses office is because she knows her classmates will just gang up on her.

Using the word pity to describe Saeki-Shuji's relationship is not correct either. Shuji genuinely cares for Saeki and the other students so its easy for him to go beyond what a teacher has to do. He even jumped on the train just to tell Saeki that she should not use the word sayonara.

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Post by «minah» » Mar 28th, '11, 20:20

manlekim wrote:Reading everyone's posts made me realized that many people are very anti-Saeki.
I think people should give Saeki a second chance. She apologized for what she did and the reason she stayed in the nurses office is because she knows her classmates will just gang up on her.

Using the word pity to describe Saeki-Shuji's relationship is not correct either. Shuji genuinely cares for Saeki and the other students so its easy for him to go beyond what a teacher has to do. He even jumped on the train just to tell Saeki that she should not use the word sayonara.
It's not being anti-Saeki... but it's like... not putting her on a pedestal or something. I think people are pitying her too much to the point that... they forgot what she did. It's not an excuse for what she did ^^;;
Anyone could apologize... but it doesn't mean she means it. Sorry can't fix the fact she messed up someone's relationship (intentionally) career, and well... she brought it on herself for the class to not like her. (not like they didn't give a crap about her before) But trying to come to terms with what she did and do something can help her and the people around the whole ordeal to be able to overcome.

I think depending on the circumstances.... people deserve a second chance. If a guy cheated on him... no I wouldn't give him a second chance. That's like the ultimate trust-breaking thing a person can do in a relationship, so in that circumstance, no. For Saeki...w ell, like someone said it's not gonna happen overnight. She has to first care whether or not she wants to be forgiven. If she doesn't care, then we shouldn't either. If she does, well, she needs to show that she wants to be forgiven. Staying in the nurse's office isn't showing it... (they can still gang up on her after school too)

In the end though I still think it's pity. Yeah as a teacher he cares for the class, but saying the words "I came back to be by your side..." yeah, that's really only specifically focusing on one particular person. Shuuji didn't know who she even was until he saw her in bed & in class. Then he acted all duh dumbfounded when she showed up (and around Natsumi as well) but only really started to "care" for her when she told him her life story. Yeah, to me, it really seems like he feels sorry for her. He doesn't know the rest of his student's background... because he knows about hers (and the fact that she has a crush on him) so it's like... he's pitying her more because of that. So no one can say he cares for his students equally...
haruma_obsessed wrote:
«minah» wrote:
Even with that... I hate how he even assume that he had sex with her... he didn't question it or anything. See, it's not always what a person do (well in this case...thought what they did)... but how they act afterward. And Shuuji is just as guilty cheating... the way he act towards Saeki when she was was around (even when Natsumi was around) it's just... nothing. Even after hearing he didn't do anything with her, he still hangs around her. Now any other Jdrama, there will be some highschooler hanging out at night and would have taken pictures of the two at night. I don't like how they still hang like that at night as if nothing happened because... well, that's the last thing you would do.
Yeah, Shuji really is such a stupid guy. Everyone else had more doubt than he did over the possibility that he really slept with her, and only Natsumi even bothered to seek the truth. (Hell, the STUDENTS tried more than he did by questioning him.) And that's why I say that the pity thing really affects his judgment. Personally, I can understand trying to help, because I know of many people who HATED Saeki in the beginning, but then liked her later because she had a hard life. I, however, say it's BS to wipe someone's slate clean because of something so irrelevant. At the time when Natsumi was still with him, Shuji didn't even care that Saeki paid no mind to the pain she caused her, and it's like nothing happened. To forgive is not to forget, and she hasn't done NEARLY as much as she should have to already gain his friendship and ESPECIALLY not his trust. How obnoxious these characters can be, even Natsumi with her early naivety...:glare:
If Saeki didn't have such a background, would people still like her? Just that I don't think it's fair to say "Well.. this did happen to her..." because it didn't stop her from doing what shew as doing. It's one thing to be understandable and know where someone is coming from, but another thing to have their past override what they're doing now and negate whatever bad things they do. Take responsibility...
Binbo Banshi....danshi... whatever it's called.... eh...... well I guess you're watching it because of Haruma but that drama.... I dropped it after 3 episodes.. I didn't know what was going on lol. Now Celeb to Binbo..... that's funny! (Kamiji Yuskue and Ueto Aya) I thought the same thing with the TWN version of HanaKimi... the girl from SHE looks more like a boy than Maki (I didn't finished the TWN version... I'm not crazy over the story but I do plan to finish it) But becasue of HanaKimi I'm fans of Yamamoto Yusku, Kimura Ryo (who... hasn't been in much recently) Hiro, Okada, and Junpei ^^
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Post by manlekim » Mar 28th, '11, 23:28

Hi minah,
I don't think I would like Saeki if she was not under the circumstances she is in. You can see how Saeki is very insecure and vulnerable. She puts up a front in the beginning of the drama to hide her "sickness" and insecurity. Its saddening to see how Saeki does not see how beautiful she is when she looks at herself in the mirror. In real life, I don't think someone that pretty would feel unwanted. Guys would be running after her for her number!

It so happens that Emi Takei plays her character so I am even more biased towards the character. I was not interested in this drama until I saw her name and thought I should give this drama a try.
Can't wait for tonight's episode 10!!! [/spoiler]

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Post by «minah» » Mar 28th, '11, 23:51

manlekim wrote:Hi minah,
I don't think I would like Saeki if she was not under the circumstances she is in. You can see how Saeki is very insecure and vulnerable. She puts up a front in the beginning of the drama to hide her "sickness" and insecurity. Its saddening to see how Saeki does not see how beautiful she is when she looks at herself in the mirror. In real life, I don't think someone that pretty would feel unwanted. Guys would be running after her for her number!

It so happens that Emi Takei plays her character so I am even more biased towards the character. I was not interested in this drama until I saw her name and thought I should give this drama a try.
Can't wait for tonight's episode 10!!! [/spoiler]
But it's opinionated on what's pretty or not. Because I know of lots of pretty & handsome people who are single... I was in college and you wouldn't believe how many people haven't been kissed yet. (I was one of them... only been kissed by one person out of my 22 years of my life ^^;;;;;;) So I guess some people have to be kinda likeable as well or have some trait that's welcoming. This girl I know... EVERYONE had a crush on her (but she only likes Asian and white guys for the most part so no one really had a chance ^^;;;) yeah she's pretty.. but she had a trait or something about her that kinda welcomes others (I lack that... no one really likes me lol Some guys started to dislike her because yeah she's pretty.. but she was a bit too hyper/happy over Asian guys a bit too much) So Saeki well, she's not really noticed (well by one guy ^_~) but she just sits there and doesn't talk to anyone (since she already feels out of place) so it's not just being pretty.... but having something that makes people talk to you... not even just guys, but girls to for friendships.

At my job I don't talk to anyone... I think this one guy was just being a jerk (my friend said that I might come off snobbish or whatever.... but I kinda don't care because I've been working there for way too long before this dude and well.. I'm not there to make him happy lol) but he did something almost stupid and I laughed a bit... and then like, he became a bit nicer-ish. So yeah, it's also being approachable (unless someone is brave enough to approach her despite her walls) Being pretty doesn't mean you're not gonna be be unwanted... she has to feel pretty herself. In that aspect, I can relate to her (because I feel the same way.. I think I'm the ewwy-est in the world... but if we don't think we are, then what?) Everyone is different and there's too many "what's pretty" talks among people
Well I'm not crazy over the finale... didn't get there yet. I like TLS subs so I'm gonna wait for them ^^ I've gotten into this show for 2 reasons: the 2 leads and the story. Both have to be somewhat balance in order for me to watch it (even if Haruma & Erika are in this.... if this show was really really really bad I would drop it....) though a cast doesn't make me watch a show solely. If a story sounds interesting and I don't know the cast.. I will check it out ^^
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haruma_obsessed
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 29th, '11, 03:43

«minah» wrote: Binbo Banshi....danshi... whatever it's called.... eh...... well I guess you're watching it because of Haruma but that drama.... I dropped it after 3 episodes.. I didn't know what was going on lol. Now Celeb to Binbo..... that's funny! (Kamiji Yuskue and Ueto Aya) I thought the same thing with the TWN version of HanaKimi... the girl from SHE looks more like a boy than Maki (I didn't finished the TWN version... I'm not crazy over the story but I do plan to finish it) But becasue of HanaKimi I'm fans of Yamamoto Yusku, Kimura Ryo (who... hasn't been in much recently) Hiro, Okada, and Junpei ^^
I started for Haruma, but I actually like the plot, too. My friend and I went on an all-nighter to watch the whole thing and he actually wound up crying. I tend to like those "crazy situation" dramas. But yeah--I LOVE Yamamoto, too. He's SO different in HanaKimi than he is in Tumbling. XD (Oh, and I'm the same way: I will START watching a drama if an actor I like is in it, but if it doesn't suit me, I'll drop it. I almost dropped this one because I thought it was pretty slow in really developing.) I also watched Smile even though I didn't know any actors (despite one being in Arashi), and I was glad. The plot sounded interesting, and it turned out nice. (And eventually Oguri Shun popped up anyway. :roll )

Sorry this was so off-topic, but minah, for the most part, pretty much wrote what I was thinking, so I've got nothing to add until I see the next episode. :sweat:

manlekim
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Post by manlekim » Mar 29th, '11, 06:02

To watch episode 10 Raw, go here: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/A-5xix69H9Y/

I enjoyed watching it!!! Good Ending.

Sorry for posting the wrong link last night.
Last edited by manlekim on Mar 29th, '11, 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

donna8157
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Post by donna8157 » Mar 29th, '11, 19:46

Thanks for posting, manle.

*sigh*

Yes, with everything it was a good ending even though predictable. :)

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 29th, '11, 19:59

manlekim wrote:To watch episode 10 Raw, go here: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/A-5xix69H9Y/

I enjoyed watching it!!! Good Ending.

Sorry for posting the wrong link last night.
Thanks manlekim :lol. My comment about the final episode and this drama is
I now realize that this drama was all about Saeki. The writer did a wonderful job showing us viewers how many people misunderstand an otherwise gloomy, immature, socially-deviant outcast. The writers turned her into a beautiful functioning human being at the end. One able to decipher between care and love and making better decisions.

She was able to let go of the "haters" knowing that they will always be there, no matter how much apologizing and "making things right" she will try to do, someone is still going to be jealous or hate her for any given reason. (I can definitely identify with this :roll )

I love the last scene where they purposely showed her walking past Shuji with her head high and hair blowing in the wind and that content smile across her face. :whistling: The look on his face said it all! :mrgreen:

The way they ended it, without a wedding, left me to believe that he would not have chosen Natsumi if it weren't for the baby, especially when she handed him the spare key to her apartment. She is so pushy, give him time to prove himself because the way he was staring at Saeki crossing the street looked like a love sick puppy to me :scratch: THE END :cheers:
What a great drama. Adios! :salut:
Now watching: Need to find some new dramas

manlekim
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Post by manlekim » Mar 30th, '11, 05:35

I want to buy the DVDs for this drama. Does anyone know where I can buy it? Thanks.

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Post by iluvasiandrama » Mar 30th, '11, 06:07

manlekim wrote:I want to buy the DVDs for this drama. Does anyone know where I can buy it? Thanks.
ROTFLMAO... :lol
Now watching: Need to find some new dramas

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Post by Sajen16 » Mar 30th, '11, 06:34

I don't get all the Natsumi bashing through the first six episodes she's the only one of the main three I don't want to beat severely with a stick. To me what Saeki did is unforgivable and dodo brain or whatever Haruma's characters name is well I think I've found things on the bottom of my shoe with more brains than he has. Sure Natsumi is a bit pushy but well she needs to be there is no one on this planet who is strong for his/her self in order to be strong people need someone to be strong for.

manlekim
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Post by manlekim » Mar 30th, '11, 07:07

I don't see many people bashing Natsumi Sajen16. Her character is likable and kind hearted. Someone like that is easy to love and admired. But her character wasn't that interesting to focus on because it lacks depth and character development. It takes greater courage for weak-minded people like Shuji and Saeki to grow and become stronger. By the end of episode 10 we have already seen Saeki's transformation. She was able to move pass the stage of grieving and her sense of loneliness that makes her longed for someone like Shuji to love her.

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Momosodapop
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Post by Momosodapop » Mar 30th, '11, 13:25

manlekim wrote:
I don't see many people bashing Natsumi
Oh really lol Have you carefully read a few pages back?
I think someone really enjoyed bashing Natsumi with some self-created fantasized reasons to the point that others who are not even Natsumi bias came out and defended her.
Hating her is not wrong because everyone is entitled to their opinion but some reasons is a bit... :blink

But I do agree that there isn't much room for Natsumi to develop as a character as much as Shuji and Hikari.
She is so mature compared to the other two and already "completed" in a way. Anyway, I think we still need this kind of character in the whole train wrack plot like this.
Or else it would be a total disaster :\

Haven't seen the final episode yet. Only heard from others that it is quite a good finish for this drama.
I'm gonna wait for TLS team.

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Post by susamirain » Mar 30th, '11, 15:49

iluvasiandrama wrote:
manlekim wrote:To watch episode 10 Raw, go here: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/A-5xix69H9Y/

I enjoyed watching it!!! Good Ending.

Sorry for posting the wrong link last night.
Thanks manlekim :lol. My comment about the final episode and this drama is
I now realize that this drama was all about Saeki. The writer did a wonderful job showing us viewers how many people misunderstand an otherwise gloomy, immature, socially-deviant outcast. The writers turned her into a beautiful functioning human being at the end. One able to decipher between care and love and making better decisions.

She was able to let go of the "haters" knowing that they will always be there, no matter how much apologizing and "making things right" she will try to do, someone is still going to be jealous or hate her for any given reason. (I can definitely identify with this :roll )

I love the last scene where they purposely showed her walking past Shuji with her head high and hair blowing in the wind and that content smile across her face. :whistling: The look on his face said it all! :mrgreen:

The way they ended it, without a wedding, left me to believe that he would not have chosen Natsumi if it weren't for the baby, especially when she handed him the spare key to her apartment. She is so pushy, give him time to prove himself because the way he was staring at Saeki crossing the street looked like a love sick puppy to me :scratch: THE END :cheers:
What a great drama. Adios! :salut:
I totally agree with your final thoughts on the drama. That's exactly what I figured. After seeing the last episode here's my take:
The writers created a great romantic chemistry and passionate love story that kept me wanting more unfortunately it was with the wrong couple, Saeki and Shuuji.

Saeki started as the worst kind of female. And from her first terrible intentions came a rippling effect of disaster for Shuuji and Natsumi. At least it seemed at first but soon ended up appearing to be an unintentional blessing for Shuuji and Natsumi. It showed Natsumi that Shuuji was already the man she wanted him to be but just toward another person. And Shuuji got to see he could make quick decisions with his heart without always going for "being good or appropriate" as Natsumi told him many times to stop doing.

While I greatly and deeply commend and respect Natsumi for doing the right thing pretty much the entire time, she did not have much chemistry with Shuuji. Watching Shuuji and Natsumi was boring. The only time he showed true, unadulterated passion or concern for Natsumi is in the last episode where he saw Natsumi go into labor at the station. But I'd show that kind of passion for my friends so that doesn't necessarily convince me after all that happened. Shuuji showed his most passion and will to do what is necessary toward Saeki every time, nearly every episode.

For those who interpret Shuuji's behavior as one of a devoted teacher (sensei) to an at-risk student (gakusei), I ask you this: How many of us girls would interpret a teacher similar to Shuuji (young, handsome) doing the things that he did for Saeki as more than just a sensei/gakusei relationship? Perhaps take it for a slightly romantic gesturing especially considering his quick forgiveness for the destruction of his relationship with a wonderful woman like Natsumi? My point is that I've seen many sensei/gakusei dramas but this one definitely teased the edge of an inappropriate relationship for sensei & gakusei, that's all I'm saying. So no one is delusional for not quite believing Shuuji's words when he said he "didn't see her as a woman" or " I do not love you." A big "WHATEVER" on that. I just figured the writers needed to wrap it up to a neat, appropriate ending. Makes me wonder what Natsumi would say to "just doing the good or appropriate thing" again.

It is no doubt in my mind that Saeki was first on Shuuji's mind without him even having to think about it. With Natsumi, it seemed Shuuji needed all the space and time in the world to decide on what he really wanted and what he really loved. After so many years knowing someone, Shuuji gave Natsumi a terrifying image of rejection after all she'd done for him. Choosing a teenager over a grown woman can be a REAL test of a woman's self-esteem. Natsumi passed with gold on her heels! :cheers:

Finally, I can't deny despite not liking how Natsumi got treated somehow liking Saeki and Shuuji together. I knew it wouldn't work but not because of them but because of where the drama was supposed to end up. When I looked at what Saeki did in the beginning, how Natsumi a wonderful woman got mistreated, and then looked at how sicky this whole thing would come off with Shuuji going crazy for a teenager, I did the twisted math! :cussing:

But even at the very end, Shuuji still looked at Saeki as if he wished they could've worked out. It's like he knew he may never feel as great a connection as with Saeki or possibly as great a passion. But most of all, Shuuji looked at Saeki as an important person who taught him all the things he needed to learn and he was happy that she was happy without needing him anymore.

On an ending note, what I hope for Natsumi is to get the very best she can from Shuuji. Natsumi deserves all the great things of life and I hope Shuuji doesn't punk out on her again. :glare:
Well, it was long but that's my take on the drama and last episode. It was good, a bit unsatisfying but good. :D
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Post by haruma_obsessed » Mar 30th, '11, 18:15

@manlekim
Oh yeah, there was a BUNCH of Natsumi bashing and (what I believe were) unrealistic scenarios earlier, so I felt Natsumi needed some help.
Momosodapop wrote:
manlekim wrote:
I don't see many people bashing Natsumi
Oh really lol Have you carefully read a few pages back?
I think someone really enjoyed bashing Natsumi with some self-created fantasized reasons to the point that others who are not even Natsumi bias came out and defended her.
Hating her is not wrong because everyone is entitled to their opinion but some reasons is a bit... :blink

But I do agree that there isn't much room for Natsumi to develop as a character as much as Shuji and Hikari.
She is so mature compared to the other two and already "completed" in a way. Anyway, I think we still need this kind of character in the whole train wrack plot like this.
Or else it would be a total disaster :\

Haven't seen the final episode yet. Only heard from others that it is quite a good finish for this drama.
I'm gonna wait for TLS team.
I think the reason people are saying she didn't have much room to develop is because she wasn't open with the characters in the drama about it. If you paid attention to her inner turmoil, she actually changed quite a bit. At first, she had a fantasy about the perfect relationship, and then, upon realizing that she was disillusioned, she because hopelessly clingy. Eventually, she learned that, while she would love Shuji to be by her side, she can't force him, because that is what she's been doing all along and what's been stunting his growth.

Personally, the only thing I don't like is that people really do give Saeki too much credit. It's like they simply ignore what Shuji's learned from Natsumi or what Natsumi and Saeki have learned from Shuji. It's like Saeki's made out to be the "true saint" of this thing just because of her growth. As human beings we're meant to grow, but how we do so depends on who we learn from. So, Saeki would still be a hateful little girl if not for Shuji. I understand the whole "Shuji and Natsumi have no chemistry" thing; I can't argue, because I haven't finished. However, I really believe Shuji would have left Natsumi or vice-versa if they didn't belong. At first, they weren't ready, but from where they're developing, Natsumi seems to be in the right place, so I just need to see how Shuji fares.
And I'm with you there. Sticking with TLS for this. :salut:

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