[Discussion] Himitsu (Sasaki Kuranosuke, Shida Mirai)

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

Do you think it’s an interesting concept for a love story?

Yes!
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60%
No, it's so weird!
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40%
 
Total votes: 43

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[Discussion] Himitsu (Sasaki Kuranosuke, Shida Mirai)

Post by MisS Lonliah » Oct 13th, '10, 18:06

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Details
* Title: 秘密
* Title (romaji): Himitsu
* Episodes: TBA
* Viewership rating:
* Broadcast network: TV Asahi
* Broadcast period: 2010-Oct-15
* Air time: Friday 23:15

Synopsis
The story involves a married couple, where the wife dies but her spirit ends up inside the couple's daughter (Shida).

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Casts
* Sasaki Kuranosuke
* Shida Mirai
* Ishida Hikari
* Motokariya Yuika
* Hayashi Tantan
* Hashimoto Satoshi
* Ikezu Shoko
* Masu Takeshi
* Ryusei Ryo
* Horiuchi Keiko
* Fukikoshi Mitsuru

Production Credits
* Original writing (novel): Himitsu by Keigo Higashino

Official site
DramaWiki
30s CM @YT


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A press conference for the upcoming drama, “Himitsu“, which stars Shida Mirai and Sasaki Kuranosuke, was held on October 12th. Mirai and Sasaki will play a “married” couple in which Sasaki’s dead wife’s spirit goes into his daughter (Mirai). The “couple” will have a 25 year age difference.
It has also been confirmed that there will be a love scene involving the two of them, and Sasaki said, “If it was not for the drama, I would be in big trouble.” Shida mentioned that she was a bit embarrassed by the scene. tokyohive

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Post by «minah» » Oct 13th, '10, 22:22

Yeah heard about this on Tokyohive... um.... incest-y much? >_> It sounds like an interesting concept... but if she was at least his step-daughter.... I think that is the only thing that bothers me about it. But, it will be nice to see how it is done.
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Post by Jav_sol » Oct 13th, '10, 22:28

That tokyohive article mentioned that there's a love scene involving the two of them. Given that Shida Mirai plays that daughter, I'd say that's very weird. Age difference in one thing, but incest. :blink

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Post by gz2009 » Oct 14th, '10, 01:00

it is more complicated than that. Yes, Shida Mirai plays the daughter; but, she also plays the mother. She is a mixture of Monami (daughter), and Naoko (mother).
For much of the story, Monami's personality is non-existent. At the moment when Heisuke thinks he has lost his wife, his daughter wakes up and calls him "Hei-chan" From her point of view, she is still Naoko, and she has not died. She is the survivor, not the daughter, if you understand what I mean. The tale is one of how things develop in light of this reality.
I will say no more, because I do not know how close the drama will be to the book; all I will say is
the ending is right. The relationships get properly resolved, if the drama follows the book, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW

Naoko disappears over time, as Monami slowly returns to take over her body again. The relationship is VERY clearlt father-daughter again.
Yes the story is difficult. Yes, the relationships are strange. You cannot think of it simply as a father-daughter thing, it is more complicated than that.

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Post by XrayMind » Oct 14th, '10, 03:26

This drama is base on a novel, which was also made into a movie in 1999. The daughter with the memory of the mother was played by Hirosue Ryoko.

Having only saw the movie and not read the novel, I think the daughter's memory was completely lost in the movie. So the drama will have a different take on. I don't know what the original novel deal with the daughter's memory.
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Post by gz2009 » Oct 14th, '10, 07:57

XrayMind wrote:This drama is base on a novel, which was also made into a movie in 1999. The daughter with the memory of the mother was played by Hirosue Ryoko.

Having only saw the movie and not read the novel, I think the daughter's memory was completely lost in the movie. So the drama will have a different take on. I don't know what the original novel deal with the daughter's memory.
The novel starts with Monami as an elementary school child (Year 6) when the accident happens. THE FOLLOWING IS MORE FROM THE BOOK PLOT. The film and the book are VERY different in feeling.

Ed: The drama starts in a similar way to the film (with an older Monami) but, hopefully that does not take from the story. They have much longer to deal with things.
Heisuke 'likes' Monami's teacher. There are only two scenes where husband and wife love are discussed once at the beginning where Heisuke. They cannot admit what is going on in public, hence the secret; yet, they cannot carry on as husband and wife, an idea that confuses revolts Heisuke. The problem is that, as they interact, boundaries between the Naoko and Monami identities get blurred and, in the end they have to make a concrete decision to treat her as Monami; Naoko makes the decision to become Monami to all intents and purposes, she goes from junior high schoo to senior high school as Monami, and has friends as Monami, and Heisuke feels that, even though she is still there, he is losing his wife (again) ... but, at some point Monami does return ... so the decision is right. The latter part of the book deals with how, Naoko eventially disappears, and how Monami, who eventually appears, bits at a time, mother and daughter communicating by letter, and how Monami, eventually regains full control of her body. Or does she?
One final point. Sex is discussed by Naoko and Heisuke in the book. It is explicitly rejected, though at two points in the book, the Naoko - Monami identity does get a bit confused (reinforcing the idea that Naoko must go from Naoko (wife) in daughter's body, to Naoko, playing Monami.)
Last edited by gz2009 on Oct 19th, '10, 09:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by yanie » Oct 17th, '10, 08:32

Just watched Ep1!! Definitely a good drama! I cried already.

I missed Ishida Hikari, haven't seen her since Asunaro Hakusho (the 1993 drama). Shida Mirai did a good job playing the mother/wife role. And I'm glad Ishida Hikari still appears from time to time even after the mother's "death".

From what I see from the 2nd ep preview, seem like the relationship and situation between Heisuke and Naoko (in Monami's body) is really going to be a big mess!^^

This is definitely one of the drama I'll be following every week, this season^^

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Post by nadesico » Oct 17th, '10, 09:29

Has the book been released in English? I'm very curious about it , and I'll definitely follow this drama, it sounds really intriguing.

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Post by scaturan » Oct 17th, '10, 09:32

looks like a reunion between Sasaki Kuranosuke & Motokariya Yuika from Boku no Aruku Michi where he played an older brother. I'm not familiar with the movie and/or novel, but it looks interesting how the lead character Mirai manage swapping emotions/personality as Naoko and the daughter who passed away.
永遠の神の愛は われらの出会いの中で実を結ぶ

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Post by gz2009 » Oct 17th, '10, 11:06

nadesico wrote:Has the book been released in English? I'm very curious about it , and I'll definitely follow this drama, it sounds really intriguing.
Yes; as "Naoko" by Keigo Higashino.

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Post by yanie » Oct 17th, '10, 11:38

gz2009 wrote:
nadesico wrote:Has the book been released in English? I'm very curious about it , and I'll definitely follow this drama, it sounds really intriguing.
Yes; as "Naoko" by Keigo Higashino.
It's the ONLY Higashino novel ever translated to English, ne :-(
I wish there are more of his novels translated to English, I wonder if it's difficult to get a copyright from him.

Btw, so in the novel, Heisuke likes Monami's teacher?? hmm....

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Post by nadesico » Oct 17th, '10, 19:02

gz2009 wrote:
nadesico wrote:Has the book been released in English? I'm very curious about it , and I'll definitely follow this drama, it sounds really intriguing.
Yes; as "Naoko" by Keigo Higashino.
Thanks for the answer! I'll definitely buy it, such a pity there's only one book translated, he sounds like a talented and prolific author.
I've just watched the 1st episode and I'm wondering: should we consider Minami dead? And I kind of didn't understand what was going on during the scene with all the victims relatives... I'll have to wait patiently for subs, is anyone is willing to take this project.

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Post by gz2009 » Oct 17th, '10, 19:16

nadesico wrote:
gz2009 wrote:
nadesico wrote:Has the book been released in English? I'm very curious about it , and I'll definitely follow this drama, it sounds really intriguing.
Yes; as "Naoko" by Keigo Higashino.
Thanks for the answer! I'll definitely buy it, such a pity there's only one book translated, he sounds like a talented and prolific author.
I've just watched the 1st episode and I'm wondering: should we consider Minami dead? And I kind of didn't understand what was going on during the scene with all the victims relatives... I'll have to wait patiently for subs, is anyone is willing to take this project.
Himitsu (Film, 1999 Original Title: Himitsu, 1998)
Lakeside Murdercase (Film, 2004 Original Title: Lakeside, 2002)
g@me (Film, 2003, Original Title: Game no na wa yūkai, 2002)
Tokio chichi e no dengon (TV Drama, 2004 Aug-Sep, Original Title: Tokio 2002)
Byakuyakō (TV Drama, 2006)
Galileo (TV Drama, 2007 and TV Drama SP, 2008, Original Title: Tantei Galileo 1998 and Yochimu 2000)
Ryūsei no Kizuna (TV Drama, 2008)
Yōgisha X no Kenshin (Film, October 2008)
Samayou Yaiba (Film, 2009)
Shinzanmono (TV Drama, 2010)

Some of his works that you might recognise, for those of you who might not otherwise recognise him. Indeed it is a pity.

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Post by japonaliya » Oct 17th, '10, 19:52

Maybe I'm blind...but how many eps. is this dorama?? Is it just 1 movie, or is it being aired for...???? I can't find any ep. and air-date listing.

If more than 1 ep.... is there a link to the air dates, and length of dorama?

Thanks !

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Oct 17th, '10, 20:16

japonaliya wrote:Maybe I'm blind...but how many eps. is this dorama?? Is it just 1 movie, or is it being aired for...???? I can't find any ep. and air-date listing.

If more than 1 ep.... is there a link to the air dates, and length of dorama?

Thanks !
This is a drama!
MisS Lonliah wrote: * Episodes: TBA

* Broadcast period: 2010-Oct-15 to 2010-Dec
* Air time: Friday 23:15
Torrent of Himitsu ep01 (704x396 XviD) here

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Post by SusieQ » Oct 18th, '10, 09:07

XrayMind wrote:This drama is base on a novel, which was also made into a movie in 1999. The daughter with the memory of the mother was played by Hirosue Ryoko.
Having only saw the movie and not read the novel, I think the daughter's memory was completely lost in the movie. So the drama will have a different take on. I don't know what the original novel deal with the daughter's memory
.
That's a potentially spoilery comment and, actually, in the movie (which was obviously quite different from the novel):
Naoko actually faked Monami's return so her husband could move on, which was revealed at Monami/Naoko's wedding.

Though I guess you could say Monami came back, because Naoko gave up her identity to live out her daughter's life as she presumably would have lived it... but I'm certain that Naoko never really disappeared.
Anyways, I was intrigued to see this drama made... But with Shida Mirai? I'm not too fond of her, and Sasaki Kuronosuke can really over-act at times. I think I'll pick up a copy of the translated novel instead. Heh.

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Post by «minah» » Oct 27th, '10, 16:56

Ok just finished eppy 1...
Kinda botheerd how Hei-chan (dunno his actual name lol) kinda like.... not cared his daughter's soul and essence wasn't around anymore... as if she's dead. As long as his wife was alive... dunno it jsut bothered me a lot of how smiley and happy he was and just looked past his daughter's body and only saw his wife. People can have many wives or husbands in their lifetime.... but that child will always be YOUR child... And I can definitely see the love square in this but it's the most bizzare love square ever.
I laughed when he made that pasta dish and she said "Oh I never knew you could cook like this!" I wanted to say 'Duh... he's a Bambino Italian chef silly' lol. But I can see so many directions this story can go into. Like how the mom will see through the perspective of her daughter and what she's going through (and what she kept from her parents) but I don't think they will go that much in depth in that department.
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Post by avieamber » Oct 29th, '10, 12:13

this drama is making feel uncomfortable to watch :lol

Still, i think their roles are quite challenging, which makes me all the more wanna continue till the end. And I can't help reading the spoilers in previous posts, the twist. And I didn't know there was a movie version! Ryoko Hirosue! I'm gonna hunt down that movie. :D

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Post by «minah» » Oct 29th, '10, 17:01

Well after watching eppy 2 now... gotta admit.. I think Mirai is doing an excellent job with her character. Because she doesn't seem like a highschool student to me anymore. Even when she cried, i think it was great. I think her out-grown hair is doing a lot of justice with her more mature appearance (that little bob-short haircut she had before just wasn't working for her at all lol) But I think she's doing a great job. And her role isn't easy... she has to act like someone twice her age with a hint of a mother (well, she did do that role in 14-year old mom but she wasn't really a mommy until the end of the series lol) so yeah.

It was so weird seeing Kuranosuke shirtless because well.... I don't find him that attractive but he did have a nice chest .__. *awkward*
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Post by SSpiegel » Oct 30th, '10, 04:30

Wowowow! The first episode was superinteresting! One of the few times that I've actually gotten hooked from the first episode. The topic is definitely risky and a very brave choice, but I do find it irresistably interesting.

I've always like Shida Mirai. I think she's absolutely amazing in this! The way she completely changed into someone with so much maturity... wow! It really feels like there is a 40-year-old woman trapped inside her.

I do feel really weird about the relationship. I guess since there is no relation to reality, it's really hard to imagine a situation like this. Would you really be able to treat someone as your wife/lover, when her appearance is of your daughter? I'm eagerly expecting where they are going to go with this one (especially as I read the spoilers regarding the book and movie). I think it's really cool that there are other characters thrown into the mix, like the teacher (there's obviously something there) and Monami's boyfriend. I'm loving it!

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Post by Melissa100 » Nov 3rd, '10, 23:01

I downloaded this but I haven't watched it yet because I was a bit afraid of how it was going to play out but after hearing that Kuranosuke is shirtless, I'm in! :D

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Post by nuts » Nov 3rd, '10, 23:23

I really like this dorama
not only because sasaki is in it :D but also because it has a unique story
and I do really hope that there won't be any 'weird' scene between sasaki and shida

well, I must say, shida is great here :thumbup:

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Post by jae-chan » Nov 5th, '10, 06:33

EXCUSE ME!!! Where did you watch or download Sasaki Kuranosuke and Mirai Shida's drama?? I really want to watch it for quite a time now!!!!! PLEASE REPLY!!

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Post by yanie » Nov 5th, '10, 06:57

Up to Ep3 Shida Mirai has showed a superb performance so far as a 38 years old woman. She was alot better than Hirosue Ryoko in the movie. Hirosue's acting as an obasan was not believable at all, she was simply acting her age, a bit disturbing to watch the movie...

I absolutely love the drama more!!^o^

To my surprise, Sasaki Kuranosuke and Shida Mirai looks... actually... good together... :blink

Can't wait till....

(BOOK/MOVIE SPOILER)
Monami comes back to her body. I wonder if Shida Mirai can act the mother and daughter back and forth well.

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Post by Aikawa Ringo » Nov 7th, '10, 08:57

I think this movie is great, its like "when you turn into somebody else and discovered what and how their way of thinking" .
Yeah, Shida did a great job with her act here, and so the others.
Monami boyfriend is good looking :wub: who is he? LOL
and the story is very interesting, the first time i read the synopsis(before watch the movie), i felt strange and curious, how's the story will play and end. but after watch the drama, it's good, and for keeping my curious, that's really a great job hehhehe :P

I want to know, what happen to yurie-chan & monami's BF, and how the hei-chan miss his wife's touch lol :lol well, he's adult :whistling:
And I dont wanna know what actually happen to the bus driver... its annoying for me to watch them jisssssshhh :x
It was so weird seeing Kuranosuke shirtless because well.... I don't find him that attractive but he did have a nice chest .__. *awkward*
yeah, i feel the same thing, he has a nice chest :wub:
okay, I already fall for him lol :lol

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Post by yanie » Nov 7th, '10, 10:28

Loved Ep4!
Naoko's reunion with her family in Nagano. I can totally understand Naoko's decision not to come back there. For her family, she's dead, and they only see her as Monami. It is definitely hard for her.

Ep5 Preview!!!
Naniiii??? Who's pregnant? Naoko (in Monami's body) can't be pregant, can she?? XD kowai!

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Post by roronoa » Nov 7th, '10, 11:15

gz2009 wrote:it is more complicated than that. Yes, Shida Mirai plays the daughter; but, she also plays the mother. She is a mixture of Monami (daughter), and Naoko (mother).
For much of the story, Monami's personality is non-existent. At the moment when Heisuke thinks he has lost his wife, his daughter wakes up and calls him "Hei-chan" From her point of view, she is still Naoko, and she has not died. She is the survivor, not the daughter, if you understand what I mean. The tale is one of how things develop in light of this reality.
I will say no more, because I do not know how close the drama will be to the book; all I will say is
the ending is right. The relationships get properly resolved, if the drama follows the book, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW

Naoko disappears over time, as Monami slowly returns to take over her body again. The relationship is VERY clearlt father-daughter again.
Yes the story is difficult. Yes, the relationships are strange. You cannot think of it simply as a father-daughter thing, it is more complicated than that.
Exactly! And to be put in more exact words, it can be better understood for people who are acquainted with psychoanalysis theories that have been the foundation of many novels and many movies, and many dramas worldwide, so the one scene that some viewers regard it as obscene, it goes beyond that, and let us quote many european and american movies including many scenes of that kind, but meant for something deeper and more "complicated" for some people, but deeper for the other.
I'have been translating on the drama, and I'm also working on others, but this appealed more to me, and I do believe I'd appeal to people worldwide, because it's more universal.

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Post by «minah» » Nov 7th, '10, 23:10

yanie wrote:Loved Ep4!
Naoko's reunion with her family in Nagano. I can totally understand Naoko's decision not to come back there. For her family, she's dead, and they only see her as Monami. It is definitely hard for her.

Ep5 Preview!!!
Naniiii??? Who's pregnant? Naoko (in Monami's body) can't be pregant, can she?? XD kowai!
What!? Really? What is up with this girl being some teenage mom lol. Well, I saw up to episode 3 and that pregnancy feeling was lingering around me....... when she saw him in the park (Well, I think Haruma looks cuter, plus I know he's over 18 so I don't feel weird and pedophiley for crushing on him :whistling: lol)
@Aikawa Ringo
But it's sooo weird because I still kinda see him as that dorky chef in Bambino (but with that hairstyle, he reminds me of Namikiri)
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Post by BBOvenGuy » Nov 7th, '10, 23:56

yanie wrote:Loved Ep4!
Naoko's reunion with her family in Nagano. I can totally understand Naoko's decision not to come back there. For her family, she's dead, and they only see her as Monami. It is definitely hard for her.

Ep5 Preview!!!
Naniiii??? Who's pregnant? Naoko (in Monami's body) can't be pregant, can she?? XD kowai!
Well, reading between the lines at the beginning of Ep 3 (the towel scene), I believe we were told that...
Monami is still a virgin. Therefore, she can't be pregnant.
What's up with Monami's friend, though? That was a bit curious...

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Post by mikilove13 » Nov 8th, '10, 00:29

Ep 3 -
Yeah, I think she meant to say that Monami was still a virgin but Heisuke felt too uncomfortable to talk about it
About Monami's friend, Yurie
I believe she likes Haruki (Soma) and felt bad about it because Monami is her best friend and had been dating him before the accident. Since she doesn't know Monami is Naoko at this point, she feels bad that Monami knows now.

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Post by «minah» » Nov 8th, '10, 05:03

@BBOvenGuyOffline Ah ok... Whew good ^_^

*edit* Don't wanna double post but is anyone else bothered by the fact no one seem to REALLY care bout Hei-chan losing his wife? "Ah you lost your wife.... well, you can hit that at ____" Like wow.... really? Within like a couple a months, it's time for him to just mess around like that's gonna really make him permanently happy? *rolls eyes*
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Post by «minah» » Dec 11th, '10, 01:38

...is anyone watching this still? lol But omg!!!!! I can't stand the side characters!!!!!! I really can't.... seriously, no one cares about the fact his JUST lost his wife (in their eyes) less than like... 6 months and he has to already be expected to date someone!? And who does that teacher think she is? Like her student is really gonna be happy with her dating her father (still from everyone elses point of view) right after her mother died? Talk about some type of respect.... man... like Hei's friend really is giving men a bad name. I'm scared to get married, and then die early and all of my husband's friends are like "What a lost... I'm sorry. Well!!! I got this girl who's been trying to talk to you since FOREVER so yeah, you should go hit that!"
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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 11th, '10, 03:19

I believe the book (which I plan to get this Christmas) has the accident happen when Monami is only 11 or so, and stretches out over many years. There's no way the TV show could do that and still have Shida Mirai or any other single actress play the role, so a certain amount of time-compression is necessary. Besides, TV shows around the world always seem to think it's impossible for human beings to be single. :P

I'm eagerly waiting for the final episode to get posted. Shouldn't be too much longer now!

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Post by «minah» » Dec 11th, '10, 04:13

Ok because yeah.... I mean really? Less than six months (I think) that his wife, who he has been with since he was approx. 19...... passing away, means like nothing and people are like "Yeah go for that girl!" or "Oh I looooove you Otou-saaaamaaaa!" But understandable if years went by and people are asking him to move on. I actually can't stand either one of the leads lol. Like they are both guilty of what they're doing themselves, but still like to think the other is just as bad or worse. I really don't like Naoko because I think she's really being more complicated and putting Hei in a more difficult position than he is to her. It's too back and forth with her but in the end just gets mad at him like he's the bad guy or something.
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Post by yanie » Dec 11th, '10, 05:12

«minah» wrote:Ok because yeah.... I mean really? Less than six months (I think) that his wife, who he has been with since he was approx. 19...... passing away, means like nothing and people are like "Yeah go for that girl!" or "Oh I looooove you Otou-saaaamaaaa!" But understandable if years went by and people are asking him to move on. I actually can't stand either one of the leads lol. Like they are both guilty of what they're doing themselves, but still like to think the other is just as bad or worse. I really don't like Naoko because I think she's really being more complicated and putting Hei in a more difficult position than he is to her. It's too back and forth with her but in the end just gets mad at him like he's the bad guy or something.
Maybe you can try to put yourself in her shoes. It's not easy to be stuck in her daughter's body and live in a world where everyone around thinks she's dead. Just my two cents :roll

I love this drama and I think what the leads does and feels makes sense. Though I could do without the yellings between those two in each episode :D

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Post by SSpiegel » Dec 11th, '10, 06:30

Yeah, I think this drama makes it really hard to relate to anyone. The plot is just that unrealistic (for the lack of a better word), that you can't really imagine what you would do in that situation. So I think it's been ok in that sense. I do agree that it's weird how everyone just pushes Hei to move on. Tho it might be a problem of a vague timeline. The latest episode was the first one where they actually talked about time passing, so I've been really confused on how much time has it been since the accident. I think it's been at least a year, at this point, but I can't be sure.
Anyway, I've been happy with the drama, considering the difficult topic. Especially having seen the latest episode, I have to give kudos to Shida Mirai. She has been really good throughout the drama, and even difficult scenes look really believable. I think she's really brave for a 17-year-old actress!
About the last episode
it looked like Naoko wasn't totally gone yet. It's gonna be a tightly packed last episode if they're still going to solve some issues between Heisuke and Naoko, and still make a good ending for Monami, who just returned to her body and doesn't remember a thing! I, for one, am nervous!

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 11th, '10, 07:36

yanie wrote:Maybe you can try to put yourself in her shoes. It's not easy to be stuck in her daughter's body and live in a world where everyone around thinks she's dead.
Well, it's not just that everyone thinks she's dead. She's also stuck in the only body that makes it impossible for her to go on being Heisuke's wife. (Well, unless she got stuck in a man's body, of course, but then we'd have an entirely different kind of story...) When she offered to let him sleep with her, I felt like that was largely a desperation move - and even then, I halfway suspect that she already knew he wouldn't go through with it.

To me, Episode 8 shows that the story is primarily about grieving and moving on. Naoko was stuck because Heisuke couldn't let her go. At the end of the episode, he finally calls her "Monami," and Monami is back the very next morning. Some people may have been annoyed by the doctor-friend and Hashimoto-sensei, but they're important to the story. It's been their push for him to move on that's shown us he was unable to move on.

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Post by ahireasu » Dec 11th, '10, 08:05

SSpiegel wrote:
it looked like Naoko wasn't totally gone yet. It's gonna be a tightly packed last episode if they're still going to solve some issues between Heisuke and Naoko, and still make a good ending for Monami, who just returned to her body and doesn't remember a thing! I, for one, am nervous!
For me Naoko isn't gone, i find it to convenient that the next morning after Heichan calls her Monami Monami is back.

I think it is all an act from Naoko's part so Heichan and her can move on in their life's without suffering/torturing them self's (as much as possible it can be).

She knows that she can't be with Heichan as a wife and husband and also Heichan knows that, but how to move on when the person you love is next to you? (even in the form of your daughter).
I don't know if Naoko was all ready searching about life-death soul transfer behavior, in books like the one she was reading in her room and with questions in Heichans friend the doctor.

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 11th, '10, 08:11

ahireasu wrote:
For me Naoko isn't gone, i find it to convenient that the next morning after Heichan calls her Monami Monami is back.

I think it is all an act from Naoko's part so Heichan and her can move on in their life's without suffering/torturing them self's (as much as possible it can be).

She knows that she can't be with Heichan as a wife and husband and also Heichan knows that, but how to move on when the person you love is next to you? (even in the form of your daughter).
I don't know if Naoko was all ready searching about life-death soul transfer behavior, in books like the one she was reading in her room and with questions in Heichans friend the doctor.
That thought had occurred to me - it's how the 1999 movie turned out, after all. But I'm not sure Naoko is that good an actress. The closing scene of Episode 8 was pretty darn convincing.

We'll find out soon enough...

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Post by ahireasu » Dec 11th, '10, 09:19

BBOvenGuy wrote:
ahireasu wrote:
For me Naoko isn't gone, i find it to convenient that the next morning after Heichan calls her Monami Monami is back.

I think it is all an act from Naoko's part so Heichan and her can move on in their life's without suffering/torturing them self's (as much as possible it can be).

She knows that she can't be with Heichan as a wife and husband and also Heichan knows that, but how to move on when the person you love is next to you? (even in the form of your daughter).
I don't know if Naoko was all ready searching about life-death soul transfer behavior, in books like the one she was reading in her room and with questions in Heichans friend the doctor.
That thought had occurred to me - it's how the 1999 movie turned out, after all. But I'm not sure Naoko is that good an actress. The closing scene of Episode 8 was pretty darn convincing.

We'll find out soon enough...
There is a movie?I agree with you as well and maybe this is why after finishing ep8 last night i couldn't stop thinking about the series.

Someone above said he/she can't relate to the story,but i don't find it that hard to do so it just needs to put your imagination running.
When the series starts For Heichan the outcome is the best there is in the beginning(instead of losing his wife or daughter he has a little of both).

But as the series progress we see that it is not that easy to live like that, to be with the person you love so much but in the same time to be so far apart.
When Naoko asked from Heichan to sleep together i don't believe she wanted to offer "her" body to him anymore at list not 100% ( i get that impression from her face expression as she closes her eyes waiting for Heichan to kiss her and her eye browns frown a little) and she knew that Heichan would sible for them to continue as Naoko and Heichan.
not proceed as well, in this way she show to her husband that it's impossible for them to be together anymore.
In the preview for ep9 it looks like Monami is really back and at some point Naoko's "soul" gets back and her and Heichan say their goodbye to eachother....
Well i guess we will trully see what's going on in the last episode

PS. Sorry for the bad English but it is not my first Language obviously and never studied it to be honnest.

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Post by yanie » Dec 11th, '10, 11:46

Correct me if I'm wrong, the book's ending:
Monami was really back and it was really Monami in the end right??
While the movie's ending:
was deviated from the original book? Naoko was only pretending to be Monami all those time until she got married.
I prefer the book's ending. More believable. Hopefully the drama's ending follows the book.

And yes, there's the movie in 1999 starring Hirosue Ryoko, but I prefer Shida Mirai's acting as Naoko. Hirosue acted Naoko just like a girl pretending to be an adult woman. While Shida's acting really makes me believe there's a 38 yrs old woman trapped inside her body.

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Post by SSpiegel » Dec 11th, '10, 16:19

ahireasu wrote:
Someone above said he/she can't relate to the story,but i don't find it that hard to do so it just needs to put your imagination running.
I don't feel like I lack imagination, as I am a scifi-fan and can take pretty much any premises you give me. And what makes Himitsu different from usual "supernatural" based series is that usually supernatural elements are just a backdrop, while the topics at hand are pretty basic and relatable. In Himitsu the supernatural element makes the whole drama just too tragic and too emotional. I can't imagine what I would do in that situation, so I can't take sides or pass any judgement upon the characters. Thus I can't relate.
I do not see it as a bad thing, tho! I've really enjoyed the series and I think they've made it as believable as you just can. There was just one user who critized Naoko for making Heisuke the bad guy, when she was actually making things more difficult. I commented by saying that it's pretty hard to relate, and thus it's pretty hard to judge fairly. I think there are no bad guys in this drama: it was too hard for them to be together, and they might've wavered, but it was too hard to be apart, too. :(

I'm hoping for a happy ending for Monami (how about some romance with that cute Souma-kuuuuun~~~~), but I don't know what to expect from the last episode. Hopefully it will be a satisfactory ending for all characters!

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 11th, '10, 16:38

yanie wrote:And yes, there's the movie in 1999 starring Hirosue Ryoko
There's also an American version called The Secret, made in 2007 and starring David Duchovny (formerly of The X-Files) as the dad. That movie takes a completely different approach, though, dealing primarily with the mom's discovery of what her daughter's life is like. It ends with the daughter coming back, but doesn't stretch far enough into the future to get to the daughter's wedding. She just goes back to school.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 11th, '10, 17:21

yanie wrote: Maybe you can try to put yourself in her shoes. It's not easy to be stuck in her daughter's body and live in a world where everyone around thinks she's dead. Just my two cents :roll

I love this drama and I think what the leads does and feels makes sense. Though I could do without the yellings between those two in each episode :D

I'm not saying it's not hard for her (because it's hard really for both of them) but I hate when shows know that they're both wrong or having it hard... but like to still make it like, only it's directed to one person that is in need to be sorry or wrong, and not the other. Like the show is trying to make you pity her more, than him while they both should be.
She can't simply just act as a wife/daughter then all of a sudden without really any kind of talk become the daughter (but still call him Hei-chan from time to time too) and she still really can't be that secretive. "I have my privacy." Well I know if I did half the stuff and said half the stuff to my mom especially that line, she'll slapped whatever privacy I had in me. But I mean, she's too back and forth and a bit double standard. She's meeting with this guy who obviously loves Monami, but she gets mad that Heisuke had porn books? (but she can lie about meeting someone?) She gets mad that he was listening to her conversation, but in the end of the episode it's her that's being tormented? She did just say to the guy she felt lonely! It's like, how is Heisuke suppose to be feel? I hate when shows are a bit one-sided because it still goes both ways. Even if she's dead to the world, the one person she's not dead to is him. (it's not easy for him to move on if she's still between being his wife and daughter) Even if he were to get marry, well uh... looks kinda hard to me (though I still think it's insensitive to the other people that are like so up on him about hitting it) if she's always gonna get mad or have a displeased look on his face when he's around a lady.
There was just one user who critized Naoko for making Heisuke the bad guy, when she was actually making things more difficult. I commented by saying that it's pretty hard to relate, and thus it's pretty hard to judge fairly. I think there are no bad guys in this drama: it was too hard for them to be together, and they might've wavered, but it was too hard to be apart, too.
Not sure if this could have been referring to me in particular, but yeah I think they both have it hard. It just I don't like how shows have to always portray it as one over the other (which I see a lot in shows and books and other stuff that gets me annoyed) I tend to be different and want to see from the other side of the opposing character. Because it still made Heisuke to be the bad guy, which gets me mad because well, she's not all that loyal and innocent so I just hate one-sided things. But my feelings on this is right above this comment so no need for me to just repeat myself lol

Someone said that the doctor and teacher were important and I kinda see where you're coming from, but still... I think if time seemed more relevant in this drama then I can agree. But just like someone said it seem like eppy 8 (and I think a previous one too? Can't remember) was the only indication of a lapse of time. So... I can see if a year went by and they said that he should move on... but not like less than that. (and still... he only knows of Naoko being really alive in his daughter body so it's not easy for him to take their suggestion and advances)

This post is longer than I though lol. I am happy that people have commented because I was interested in what people thought. And honestly, both of them are still equally pissing me off. But it's not exactly them per-se.... but it' show dramas like to still have that big lack of communication and love to have misunderstandings. What's wrong with people thoroughly saying what they want so the other won't be confused or misunderstood? (that's how I think a lot of these shows really have the "drama" just by a simple misunderstanding which can be frusterating)
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Post by nuts » Dec 11th, '10, 18:15

damn, eps 8 made me cry a lot...
this is really a great series, can't wait for the final eps

well, I think it's better if I don't give any comment about 'heisuke is the bad guy' or 'naoko makes everything even a lot harder' or stuff like that
I'm a big fan of sasaki, so I think my comment would be so subjective *LOL*

but yes, I think sometimes naoko made things even harder for both of them, and yes, sometimes hei-chan was really annoying
but even those things were still 'acceptable' in such situation
each of them suppressed their feelings, and felt like they had suffered much for the sake of another, then they felt like the other never cared about their feeling (or so)


I have to say, Shida Mirai got an excellent acting here.. :thumright:

sorry for my bad english, stil got emotional after watching eps 8 :(

and oh, I'm pretty dissappointed that hei-chan didn't get along well with the teacher *LOL*

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Post by yanie » Dec 11th, '10, 23:35

BBOvenGuy wrote:There's also an American version called The Secret, made in 2007 and starring David Duchovny (formerly of The X-Files) as the dad. That movie takes a completely different approach, though, dealing primarily with the mom's discovery of what her daughter's life is like. It ends with the daughter coming back, but doesn't stretch far enough into the future to get to the daughter's wedding. She just goes back to school.
David Duchovny?? :w00t: I didn't know this!!! Will definitely watch this one. Thanks for the info!

Hollywood sure have adapted a load of Japanese stuff, huh.

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Post by yanie » Dec 12th, '10, 03:08

Episode 9 (final)
Disappointing! It follows the movie's ending. I don't buy Naoko can really be that good of an actress.
Putting that aside, I really enjoyed Shida Mirai's acting as both Naoko and Monami, very believable. But knowing it's Naoko afterall, maybe Shida shouldn't have put much effort in distinguishing the way Naoko and Monami talk :(
So Monami never come back alive?? I like Monami's character better... :(

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Post by ahireasu » Dec 12th, '10, 15:59

Without watching ep9 or reading your spoiler in the end i believe that
Naoko never leaves the body of Monami, we forgot that when Naoko and Seichan went to her father house Naoko saw the spirit of Monami and Monami said goodbye to Naoko,with this in mind + Naoko's set of mind (knowning that she and Seichan can't be together as husband and wife) she decides to play all this "monami is back" and Naoko is gone for Seichan's and hers sake.

A sad choice, but from the series i think we see that Naoko has a more strong will/mindset than Seichan.
+We saw Naoko living the life of her daughter starting drifting away from Seichan and developing feelings for Soma kun, while Seichan is "stuck" in the "past" and to Naoko unable to move on.

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Post by goygakgoy » Dec 12th, '10, 17:22

Great drama...but kinda depressing. Shida Mirai plays an old lady rather than the cute little girl.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 12th, '10, 20:52

Well, when I saw I guess 8, I kinda knew she was acting. When she said "I'm Monami." I think that gave it away along with the music at that moment. Still gonna wait and see 9
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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 13th, '10, 02:52

Okay, I speak zero Japanese. After all this time watching anime and J-dramas, there are certain words and phrases I've learned to recognize, but that's about it. Fortunately, the subs are now out for the finale - they're not mikilove's, though, and those are the ones I'm waiting for, but I scanned through the ones that have been posted, and here's my take.

I felt like it really was Monami we saw at the end of Episode 8, and even before the subs came out for Episode 9, I still thought it was Monami looking at the raw. When she gets back to school, she runs up to Yurie excitedly, as if she's thrilled to see her friend again. There would be no need for Naoko to act that way, because Heisuke wasn't around and Yurie never knew that Monami had been gone. Therefore, it had to be Monami.

According to the subs...
Monami and Naoko start switching back and forth, and they start writing letters to each other so that they'll both be caught up with what's going on. At some point, though, Naoko fades away completely... or at least that's what it looks like. In the wedding scene, Heisuke discovers that Monami has done something that only Naoko would have known about, and that leads him to wonder if it's really Naoko in Monami's body. However, judging from the subs, I'd say it's left vague at the end.

Perhaps the best explanation is that Monami and Naoko have somehow merged - not necessarily literally, but their shared experience (over 8 years by the time of the wedding) has made their personalities grow together, so that you can't really tell who it is any more. That's my take, anyway.

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Post by yanie » Dec 13th, '10, 03:20

BBOvenGuy wrote:According to the subs...
Monami and Naoko start switching back and forth, and they start writing letters to each other so that they'll both be caught up with what's going on. At some point, though, Naoko fades away completely... or at least that's what it looks like. In the wedding scene, Heisuke discovers that Monami has done something that only Naoko would have known about, and that leads him to wonder if it's really Naoko in Monami's body. However, judging from the subs, I'd say it's left vague at the end.

Perhaps the best explanation is that Monami and Naoko have somehow merged - not necessarily literally, but their shared experience (over 8 years by the time of the wedding) has made their personalities grow together, so that you can't really tell who it is any more. That's my take, anyway.
My ideal ending would be...
In those 8 years, Monami and Naoko are still switching back and forth, without Heisuke knowing.

But.... the ending made it look like it was all Naoko in that body :(

But then again, whether or not Monami ever came back again, I think Heisuke would've notice right away when Naoko is the one who's up, in those 8 years, even if Naoko tries to talk like a young girl. I mean, how about her cooks and her habits and all?

Dunno, either I'm confused or the ending doesn't make sense :unsure:

Btw, I watched David Duchovny's version, it's darker and alot more twisted. Don't like it, but anyway it has even more vague ending.
The daughter watched a video of her mother(in her body) giving her a last message, without the father around at all, and from her reaction, I believe the daughter must be really back. But then at the ending scene the daughter writes with her mother's handwriting. So I was confused as well with this ending XD

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Post by «minah» » Dec 13th, '10, 03:23

yanie wrote:
BBOvenGuy wrote:According to the subs...
Monami and Naoko start switching back and forth, and they start writing letters to each other so that they'll both be caught up with what's going on. At some point, though, Naoko fades away completely... or at least that's what it looks like. In the wedding scene, Heisuke discovers that Monami has done something that only Naoko would have known about, and that leads him to wonder if it's really Naoko in Monami's body. However, judging from the subs, I'd say it's left vague at the end.

Perhaps the best explanation is that Monami and Naoko have somehow merged - not necessarily literally, but their shared experience (over 8 years by the time of the wedding) has made their personalities grow together, so that you can't really tell who it is any more. That's my take, anyway.
My ideal ending would be...
In those 8 years, Monami and Naoko are still switching back and forth, without Heisuke knowing.

But.... the ending made it look like it was all Naoko in that body :(

But then again, whether or not Monami ever came back again, I think Heisuke would've notice right away when Naoko is the one who's up, in those 8 years, even if Naoko tries to talk like a young girl. I mean, how about her cooks and her habits and all?

Dunno, either I'm confused or the ending doesn't make sense :unsure:

Btw, I watched David Duchovny's version, it's darker and alot more twisted. Don't like it, but anyway it has even more vague ending.
The daughter watched a video of her mother(in her body) giving her a last message, without the father around at all, and from her reaction, I believe the daughter must be really back. But then at the ending scene the daughter writes with her mother's handwriting. So I was confused as well with this ending XD
Confusing vague endings!!! Lol!! they have to be vague so it can make us wonder and debate lol. That reminds me when I watched Inception.... the ending was a bit vague and could go both ways. People always have to toy with our emotions in these endings ;_;
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Post by SSpiegel » Dec 13th, '10, 10:25

Well, I'm just waiting for the finale to download, and while the thread here is very short, I'd like to say that it has been fun to talk to everyone about the drama! I don't know what to expect from the last episode, especially when there are other versions to this and they have taken different ways to end this. Soon I'll see for myself!
«minah» wrote:
There was just one user who critized Naoko for making Heisuke the bad guy, when she was actually making things more difficult. I commented by saying that it's pretty hard to relate, and thus it's pretty hard to judge fairly. I think there are no bad guys in this drama: it was too hard for them to be together, and they might've wavered, but it was too hard to be apart, too.
Not sure if this could have been referring to me in particular, but yeah I think they both have it hard. It just I don't like how shows have to always portray it as one over the other (which I see a lot in shows and books and other stuff that gets me annoyed) I tend to be different and want to see from the other side of the opposing character. Because it still made Heisuke to be the bad guy, which gets me mad because well, she's not all that loyal and innocent so I just hate one-sided things. But my feelings on this is right above this comment so no need for me to just repeat myself lol

Someone said that the doctor and teacher were important and I kinda see where you're coming from, but still... I think if time seemed more relevant in this drama then I can agree. But just like someone said it seem like eppy 8 (and I think a previous one too? Can't remember) was the only indication of a lapse of time. So... I can see if a year went by and they said that he should move on... but not like less than that. (and still... he only knows of Naoko being really alive in his daughter body so it's not easy for him to take their suggestion and advances)

This post is longer than I though lol. I am happy that people have commented because I was interested in what people thought. And honestly, both of them are still equally pissing me off. But it's not exactly them per-se.... but it' show dramas like to still have that big lack of communication and love to have misunderstandings. What's wrong with people thoroughly saying what they want so the other won't be confused or misunderstood? (that's how I think a lot of these shows really have the "drama" just by a simple misunderstanding which can be frusterating)
It was directed at you, but I wasn't exactly blaming you or anything! :) Just stating my view. But, I can totally see where you're coming from
both of them have been doing all kinds of stuff behind each other's backs, but only Heisuke is made to look like the bad guy. I actually hadn't thought about it before, because I just can't make any judgements, it's too hard for me. But it does look like that, doesn't it? I think Heisuke's doings were emphasized more, and his reactions were much bigger, too. Naoko was also doing all kinds of things on the sidelines, but at home she was very possessive of Heisuke. I never understood why she first said she'd start living as Monami, but gradually started calling him Hei-chan again.
Now, off to the last episode~~~~

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Post by anohianotoki » Dec 13th, '10, 11:54

I agree with the poster who noticed Monami overjoyed to see her friend at school and showing it where there was no need to keep up the act since her dad was not there to see it. That clinched it for me that Monami came back, though there could have been some merging or sharing of knowledge. The whole ring thing could have more a prosaic explanation, such as it being mentioned in one of Naoko's letters to Monami, or even mentioned by her dad, but later forgotten, or found when Monami noticed the thread.

As for the good guy / bad guy issue mentioned above, I think this drama is not about perfect people. Earlier, Naoko was indeed tempted to relive her life differently since she was given the chance. Go out with a rebellious good looking boy and see what it would have been like not to have been so proper all the time. (But I disliked Soma's character though, empty, like an anime cutout.) But also, her dad was martyring himself by not accepting the company of others. There's always something irritating about the righteous sufferer who tells you about it. So, in that episode, both came to a better understanding of their predicament and the air was cleared.
Thanks again to the subbers.

I think Shida Mirai's acting was great. There was one scene where you could just tell from her face that Naoko had come back.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 13th, '10, 23:58

@SSpiegel
Well, I didn't feel offended or anything. I just noticed :Hey, I said that!" lol. But yup... gonna wait for the sub to come before I watch it (I dunno... I don't like watching it raw first because some [well... a lot] shows I don't feel like watching twice so I rather just wait to understand it instead lol.)
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Post by ahireasu » Dec 15th, '10, 08:12

Well after watching ep9 my opinionwas verified 100% of what happened
Even tho the director tried to confuse us with the overjoyed Monami when she sees her friend I will say " one picture equals with a thousand words" and the face of Monami in her day of the wedding says it all.this is not the face of a woman that goes to her wedding , its more like she is in a funeral ,when Seichan gets in the room and they face eachother Naoko knew that Seichan knows who she is, there is no need for questions or answers because they also know that it will lead to nothing but sadness+ I believe Seichan is afraid to admit/ confront the truth at this moment after 8 years.So we see a symbolic move from Seichan when he delivers the bride he removes his wedding ring , like he says " you are free to go" finally Seichan comes to the same conclusion as Naoko did 8 years ago"we can no longer be husband and wife". Also don't forget that it was Naoko who decided and wanted to become a doctor and not Monami, something that she does. To answer about the cooking someone mentioned above , don't forget Naoko said that she will leave instructions to Monami on how to prepare meals.
I also have to say that I enjoyed the performance of Shida , she was really good and since she is only 17 I hope we will see even more amazing acting by her part. I enjoyed this drama but for me it had more impact up to ep8 , ep9 felt like they tried to wrap things up a bit quick, maybe it was because I was rewatching one of my favourite dramas "Jyoou no Kyoushitsu" and the impact that left me was stronger than Himitsu last episode ( I watched the last episode of Jyoou before watching Himitsu ep9 ). In any case a good drama to watch non the less.PS sorry for the long post.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 15th, '10, 17:00

Thank you for the spoiler! Spoilers make me wanna watch more ^_^
I felt that Naoko wanted to be a doctor also because it was probably what she wanted to do when she was 19... but became pregnant and a wife instead. So it's like her finally accomplishing her dream. Well, that was the impression I got from it lol. But it still seems sad for all of them. Still feel bad for Heisuke because no one in the world knows what he is going through, therefore, not just any words can help him... but sadly he has to keep moving on or be like me and just wanna sulk all the time lol. And it's the same for Naoko. No one knows what she's going through too. But I still wonder if she deeply loves Heisuke... just a wonder.
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Post by nuts » Dec 15th, '10, 17:12

well maybe she DID love heisuke
but, since she's having a new life (and a new body), then she finds new love too???
poor hei-chan~ :(

well, it's okay, hei-chan still had me *ROFL*

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Post by ocha » Dec 15th, '10, 18:12

ahireasu
I liked your interpretation of the ending. Reading that really made a lot of sense and I felt like I got more out of the series by understanding your points.

Someone also made the point that only Hei-chan seems to be made the bad guy when Naoki is also doing things to hurt their relationship. I felt frustrated watching these parts of the series.

Overall though I really enjoyed this series and want to read the novel. I especially liked and related on Hei's character as a man that is in a relationship but at the same time not in a relationship and the challenges he faces. I just wish they balanced it out more with portraying Naoko in the same way and less on simple misunderstandings as a plot device.
Even though it wasn't an ending I had hoped for I thoroughly enjoyed Sasaki as Hei-chan. I've been a fan of his acting for a long time. The tension he carried in the vague ending made it all the better. He was a character I couldn't dislike even through his low points in the series (e.g. buying porn and dangling on the edge of flirting with other women).
On the flip side I haven't been a fan of Mirai over the past few years as shes matured from child actor to being a teen actor. Watching her through this has turned that all around and I really liked her portrayal of Naoko (as noted above, I just wish her character was written to be more on terms with Hei-chan). I'll be looking forward to more of her serious roles in the future.

Did anyone else feel there was a lack of physical comforting in the series? I guess I'm underestimating that Japanese don't often kiss, hug or touch. But in scenes in the privacy of their own home I had hoped that Sasaki would comfort Naoko by hugging her when they were both feeling down. I felt that a simple small hug could've made things all better.
It was only in the final episode on the bench did I really notice anything like this.
[/spoiler]

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 15th, '10, 18:12

Well, you have to remember that the wedding takes place 8 years after the rest of the story. Even if there had never been a bus accident, a 25-year-old Monami isn't going to be the same hyper teenager that the 16-year-old Monami was.

(Actually, the grown-up Monami reminds me of my sister-in-law, who is also (a) Asian (Chinese instead of Japanese, though), (b) a doctor and (c) short. :P But I digress...)

I still think the woman we see getting married at the end is mostly Monami. Maybe Naoko is still there, submerged and incorporated into Monami's personality in some way, but for the most part Monami is back. But the story is told to us in a way that leaves it open to debate, so I could be wrong.

And it's not like Heisuke is doomed. He's still not that old (heck, I'm 46 and I don't consider myself old). I was half-expecting to see Hashimoto-sensei there with him at the wedding. :lol

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Post by nuts » Dec 15th, '10, 18:24

if it was monami, why didn't she stopped hei-chan when he hit fumiya
if it was monami, at least she should ask her dad why he hit fumiya like that
but, she just quietly stood there with that sharp look in her eyes
well, I was hoping hei-chan will somehow meet up with hashimoto-sensei again
but... :(
so in the end, hei-chan was left alone :(
hashimoto-sensei, please come back!!
hei-chan's not wearing the wedding ring anymore, so go for him please *lol*

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Post by ocha » Dec 15th, '10, 18:31

+1 for Heisuke being with Hashimoto sensei
if Monami is really Naoko. Its only fair that he can have a new partner too. I like Naoko and Hei as a couple the best (their chemistry was good in the first two episodes before a lot of the issues started to appear. But Hei and Hashimoto was a close second!

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Post by nuts » Dec 15th, '10, 18:37

you're right!!
since the first time they met, I've wanted them to be 'exposed' more haha~
it's true that Heisuke and Naoko really had a good chemistry
but since Naoko 'died', I really wished hei-chan would go out with hashimoto-sensei
that's why I really loved eps 6, cos there were lots of scenes of them together :wub:
yeah, I think it's really naoko, that's why hei-chan took off his wedding ring

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Post by «minah» » Dec 15th, '10, 18:49

ocha wrote:
ahireasu
I liked your interpretation of the ending. Reading that really made a lot of sense and I felt like I got more out of the series by understanding your points.

Someone also made the point that only Hei-chan seems to be made the bad guy when Naoki is also doing things to hurt their relationship. I felt frustrated watching these parts of the series.

Overall though I really enjoyed this series and want to read the novel. I especially liked and related on Hei's character as a man that is in a relationship but at the same time not in a relationship and the challenges he faces. I just wish they balanced it out more with portraying Naoko in the same way and less on simple misunderstandings as a plot device.
Even though it wasn't an ending I had hoped for I thoroughly enjoyed Sasaki as Hei-chan. I've been a fan of his acting for a long time. The tension he carried in the vague ending made it all the better. He was a character I couldn't dislike even through his low points in the series (e.g. buying porn and dangling on the edge of flirting with other women).
On the flip side I haven't been a fan of Mirai over the past few years as shes matured from child actor to being a teen actor. Watching her through this has turned that all around and I really liked her portrayal of Naoko (as noted above, I just wish her character was written to be more on terms with Hei-chan). I'll be looking forward to more of her serious roles in the future.

Did anyone else feel there was a lack of physical comforting in the series? I guess I'm underestimating that Japanese don't often kiss, hug or touch. But in scenes in the privacy of their own home I had hoped that Sasaki would comfort Naoko by hugging her when they were both feeling down. I felt that a simple small hug could've made things all better.
It was only in the final episode on the bench did I really notice anything like this.
Yeah it was a long post so I'm just putting it under spoiler tags lol. I agree with your comment. Though I still need to watch the final eppy, reading peoples comments are helping a lot. Yeah... I hate when shows' plots are in turmoil due to a simple misunderstanding that takes only a few seconds for one to explain. I think when someone doesn't, it makes the misunderstandings more believable since they're not even to defend themselves.

I'm not really a fan of Sasaki.. I remember first seeing him in Bambino, but remember seeing how he looks now (referring to hair lol) in Zettai Kareshi. I think he did a good job in this series. I'm not a fan of the type of character he played... because he's a bit "uh duh... this girl is flirting with me....um......." he can be a bit uncertain at times and uncomfyness spreads across his face too easily. Mirai did a good job in this too, but I'm not really a fan of any of her characters in her shows.

About Heisuke and the teacher hooking up... well, I'm not into rebounds and i still think her hitting on him was a bit too soon in the series (kinda disrespectful.... like who do you think you are? You can't just simply replace his wife like that AND you're his daughter's teacher.) It just seemed a bit selfish on her part if she was even considering those factors. But 8 years later... sure I guess she can hook up with him but I don't like her personally because of her personality and what she did/tried to do. She's a bit air-heady to me (another typical kinda girl in these dramas....) "Oh can you lend me your shoulder? I don't think this is awkward for you at all!" But on the flip side, because I don't like her personally I don't see any problems with Heisuke getting with someone because of Naoko. Double standards suuucks
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Post by ahireasu » Dec 15th, '10, 19:16

ocha wrote:ahireasu
I liked your interpretation of the ending. Reading that really made a lot of sense and I felt like I got more out of the series by understanding your points.
Thank you for your words :) , i know it is hard to understand me since my english are bad and its really hard for me to put my thoughts in place in another language, especially since i haven't study English.

Anyway + @ nuts we think the same, i will add something more that i didn't mention earlier because it was obvious?
Monami/Naoko went and asked for the wedding ring of Naoko (a part of it) to be mixed in the ring that she would wear in her wedding, Seishuke mentions/wonders only him and Naoko knew about it, only the two of them knew where was it hidden.

A Monami at 25 she had no reason to keep the doll where the ring was hidden, heck she had no reason to keep it not even at 18 or 20 when she was studying to become a doctor.
Some may think maybe Naoko told her where it was, then i will say if it was so then Monami had no reason to hide it from her father, she could ask him/tell him that she wants to use it, instead she goes behind his back asking "Please never tell my father about it" because she knew Heichan will figure it out that all this years it was Naoko and not Monami.

But Naoko is not a the bad guy no one is here,Naoko loved and untill the end still loves Heichan this is why she wants the ring...HER ring to be mixed in the knew one, she wants to have a part of her bond with Heichan with her forever, this is how much she loves him, don't forget if its hard for Seichan that his wife died and her soul was in his daughters body(untill she "disappeared") imagine how Naoko felt/feels that she has to part ways from the man she loves knowingly.(she will always know and remember everything)
"Oblivion" is a bliss they say, maybe this is what Naoko tried to accomplish as a last present for Seichan. (The old man had a big mouth lol )

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Post by SSpiegel » Dec 15th, '10, 19:16

Well, it's been a few days since I watched the finale. I dunno, I have to say I didn't really like it.
I know they wanted to leave us hanging about whether it was Monami or Naoko in the end, but to me it just failed. They should've been much more vague. It's soooo obviously Naoko, it makes me wonder if Monami ever came back at all. She was probably faking it just to make it easier for them to separate. After all, they made it pretty clear that everytime the other one was awake, the other one was "sleeping", and thus didn't know anything that was going on. They shared their knowledge through letters, but there's a limit to that. One time Heisuke showed Monami her report card, and there you could see how her grades were much better than before. And leaving recipes is a good start, but you don't suddenly become a good cook with just that. I dunno, I just don't buy it. I don't see how Naoko's personality would've integrated with Monami's, since they were so separate before. And well, then the ending sealed it for me. Monami was a bright personality. I just don't see how she would've been that gloomy on her wedding day.
I liked the drama a lot, but I just didn't feel the ending. I didn't really care much what the ending was, but at least they could've executed it better.

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 18th, '10, 07:31

Okay, mikilove's subs are out for the finale, and now that I've watched it, I'm ready with my take on the ending.

Ready? Here it is:

We don't really know who it is that's getting married at the end. We're not supposed to know. And in a way, it really doesn't matter.

At the beginning of the episode, continuing on from Episode 8, I think that really was Monami. Up through the point where Monami asked Heisuke to take her to Yamashita Park, I think we really did see Monami and Naoko switching back and forth. It's just too elaborate for Naoko to pull off an acting job - the way she reacted when she saw Yurie again, the little skit Monami made up as a video for Naoko to see, the letters Naoko wrote to Monami, the way Naoko and Monami complained to Heisuke about each other, and so on. Plus when Fumina showed up, Monami didn't know who he was. Naoko would have reacted to him differently.

However... eight years later, it's a different story. Did Naoko really disappear? She could have told Monami where the ring was in one of her letters, or Monami could have simply found it. She carried that little bear charm around all those years - surely she would have noticed a ring inside it sooner or later. But we don't know for sure. We don't get to see the grown-up Monami's personality, so we don't know how much she's changed from when she was a teenager. There's simply not enough information for us to know what's really going on.

The last word in the entire series is Shida Mirai saying, "Himitsu" - "the secret." Which character is she playing when she says it? That's a secret. Make up your own answer.

But... in the end, it doesn't matter, because the whole point of the scene is Heisuke's decision to move on. It's eight years later, and he's still wearing his freakin' wedding ring. He still hasn't let go. And then, just as the closing credits roll, he finally takes the ring off and gives Monami away. Yeah, he had to be all manly and punch Fumina, just in case Fumina was stealing his wife, but that's the end of it. The story of Heisuke's grief is over. It's time for the next chapter of his life to begin. (And where's Hashimoto-sensei at a time like that...?)

Anyway, that's how I see it. I suspect I'm going to be writing blog entries and other ramblings about this show around the net for the next couple of weeks, because that's how big an impact it had on me. A fantastic story with fantastic acting.

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Post by gz2009 » Dec 18th, '10, 10:05

BBOvenGuy wrote:Okay, mikilove's subs are out for the finale, and now that I've watched it, I'm ready with my take on the ending.

Ready? Here it is:

We don't really know who it is that's getting married at the end. We're not supposed to know. And in a way, it really doesn't matter.

At the beginning of the episode, continuing on from Episode 8, I think that really was Monami. Up through the point where Monami asked Heisuke to take her to Yamashita Park, I think we really did see Monami and Naoko switching back and forth. It's just too elaborate for Naoko to pull off an acting job - the way she reacted when she saw Yurie again, the little skit Monami made up as a video for Naoko to see, the letters Naoko wrote to Monami, the way Naoko and Monami complained to Heisuke about each other, and so on. Plus when Fumina showed up, Monami didn't know who he was. Naoko would have reacted to him differently.

However... eight years later, it's a different story. Did Naoko really disappear? She could have told Monami where the ring was in one of her letters, or Monami could have simply found it. She carried that little bear charm around all those years - surely she would have noticed a ring inside it sooner or later. But we don't know for sure. We don't get to see the grown-up Monami's personality, so we don't know how much she's changed from when she was a teenager. There's simply not enough information for us to know what's really going on.

The last word in the entire series is Shida Mirai saying, "Himitsu" - "the secret." Which character is she playing when she says it? That's a secret. Make up your own answer.

But... in the end, it doesn't matter, because the whole point of the scene is Heisuke's decision to move on. It's eight years later, and he's still wearing his freakin' wedding ring. He still hasn't let go. And then, just as the closing credits roll, he finally takes the ring off and gives Monami away. Yeah, he had to be all manly and punch Fumina, just in case Fumina was stealing his wife, but that's the end of it. The story of Heisuke's grief is over. It's time for the next chapter of his life to begin. (And where's Hashimoto-sensei at a time like that...?)

Anyway, that's how I see it. I suspect I'm going to be writing blog entries and other ramblings about this show around the net for the next couple of weeks, because that's how big an impact it had on me. A fantastic story with fantastic acting.
These are relevant bits from the ending of the book:
The dressing room attendants left the room. The two of them were alone, looking at each other.
Naoko...
At that moment, Heisuke knew.
It would have been meaningless to say it. She would never admit it. She would never admit that she was Naoko. And as long as she refused to say otherwise, she was Monami. Heisuke had nobody in his life except for his daughter.

...

Heisuke nodded firmly. The gesture was his promise to protect her secret, forever.

...

[what follows is the final paragraph]

Heisuke clenched his fist, but now the tears started flowing down his cheeks before he could even lift his arm. He fell to his knees and, covering his face with dis hands, began to sob himself hoarse.
I have my personal take on the situation. It should have been dealt with more openly and honestly at the time. There is a tendency for people to want to avoid truths that need to be said. the reality is that the situation was impossible, intolerable for them both from the very beginning, but they never handled it properly as a couple (Heisuke and Naoko). Could they have managed at the time? I don't know? But Naoko made a lot of decisions by herself that were, in fact very selfish.
she seems to assume that she can trick Heisuke ... but in the end, she can't, he sees through it and it rips him apart. He now knows that he has lost everything - wife and daughter. He can now no longer say in his heart that this is his daughter, and he has to carry the burden of keeping this secret from Naoko. That is the real secret.

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Post by goygakgoy » Dec 18th, '10, 14:57

Just finished the last episode. First, just wanna say that it's a well done drama that's different from the movies in ways. I would say the drama is more depressing and Shida Mira's acting is really up there! For me, I wished it was a more happy happy drama like the usual Shida Mirai dramas, but at least this was still a good drama, though depressing. I did lose respect for Shida Mira's role. The things that she done was just so deep and unforgivable. Then again, the father had every opportunity, but he chose the path that was unrealistic.

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Post by goygakgoy » Dec 18th, '10, 15:11

SSpiegel wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I watched the finale. I dunno, I have to say I didn't really like it.
I know they wanted to leave us hanging about whether it was Monami or Naoko in the end, but to me it just failed. They should've been much more vague. It's soooo obviously Naoko, it makes me wonder if Monami ever came back at all. She was probably faking it just to make it easier for them to separate. After all, they made it pretty clear that everytime the other one was awake, the other one was "sleeping", and thus didn't know anything that was going on. They shared their knowledge through letters, but there's a limit to that. One time Heisuke showed Monami her report card, and there you could see how her grades were much better than before. And leaving recipes is a good start, but you don't suddenly become a good cook with just that. I dunno, I just don't buy it. I don't see how Naoko's personality would've integrated with Monami's, since they were so separate before. And well, then the ending sealed it for me. Monami was a bright personality. I just don't see how she would've been that gloomy on her wedding day.
I liked the drama a lot, but I just didn't feel the ending. I didn't really care much what the ending was, but at least they could've executed it better.
I just had to reply. Personally, I felt that the ending was very well done, but I think how you take it is what you perceived is going on. This is my take on it..based on what I saw, an obviously from the movie.
The daughter NEVER came back. The wife made everything all up in order to maintain a peaceful lifestyle with the father/husband. She was still kid, so she can't just walk out on him. She had to break up with him by pretending to be the daughter. She was gloomy on her wedding day because both her and the husband knew that the wife was still alive. It was a depressing situation because she was leaving her husband for another husband. She wanted to be with her husband, but her damn husband wouldn't sleep with her or love her, so she had to leave. The wedding was just a depressing moment for both of them. The guy was literally handing off his wife to another man.

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Post by SSpiegel » Dec 18th, '10, 16:10

goygakgoy wrote:
SSpiegel wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I watched the finale. I dunno, I have to say I didn't really like it.
I know they wanted to leave us hanging about whether it was Monami or Naoko in the end, but to me it just failed. They should've been much more vague. It's soooo obviously Naoko, it makes me wonder if Monami ever came back at all. She was probably faking it just to make it easier for them to separate. After all, they made it pretty clear that everytime the other one was awake, the other one was "sleeping", and thus didn't know anything that was going on. They shared their knowledge through letters, but there's a limit to that. One time Heisuke showed Monami her report card, and there you could see how her grades were much better than before. And leaving recipes is a good start, but you don't suddenly become a good cook with just that. I dunno, I just don't buy it. I don't see how Naoko's personality would've integrated with Monami's, since they were so separate before. And well, then the ending sealed it for me. Monami was a bright personality. I just don't see how she would've been that gloomy on her wedding day.
I liked the drama a lot, but I just didn't feel the ending. I didn't really care much what the ending was, but at least they could've executed it better.
I just had to reply. Personally, I felt that the ending was very well done, but I think how you take it is what you perceived is going on. This is my take on it..based on what I saw, an obviously from the movie.
The daughter NEVER came back. The wife made everything all up in order to maintain a peaceful lifestyle with the father/husband. She was still kid, so she can't just walk out on him. She had to break up with him by pretending to be the daughter. She was gloomy on her wedding day because both her and the husband knew that the wife was still alive. It was a depressing situation because she was leaving her husband for another husband. She wanted to be with her husband, but her damn husband wouldn't sleep with her or love her, so she had to leave. The wedding was just a depressing moment for both of them. The guy was literally handing off his wife to another man.
I guess what I didn't like was that they tried to go a bit both ways. They tried to leave us guessing, but then they also gave us an obvious ending. And you can't have the cake and eat it too. Others here think we can't know who it was, others think it's really obvious which one it is. So they did leave a little room for interpretation, even though the ending we (at least the two of us) saw would've been perfectly good on its own. So, I guess my wish is that they would've either made it more obvious or more vague. That's why I don't feel it. Dunno if that even makes sense. :roll
I do feel that everything clicked into place when I saw the ending. Many people pointed out the fact that Monami probably did come back, because she felt so genuinely happy when she greeted her friend at school. But I saw it as Naoko really trying to live as the young Monami, and not only trying to fool Heisuke. So it doesn't matter whether Heisuke was there or not, she had decided to live her life as Monami and embrace all aspects of it. I think what Naoko did was pretty selfish, but I think the situation required something radical. There was no way it would've worked out between them, it was still their daughter's body. They both needed to move on. I think it was pretty cruel that Heisuke found out it was Naoko, and especially after 8 years, but he was finally able to let her go. I honestly don't think Naoko was that happy about deceiving him, either, so I think they both suffered a lot.

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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 19th, '10, 04:01

gz2009 wrote:These are relevant bits from the ending of the book:
The dressing room attendants left the room. The two of them were alone, looking at each other.
Naoko...
At that moment, Heisuke knew.
It would have been meaningless to say it. She would never admit it. She would never admit that she was Naoko. And as long as she refused to say otherwise, she was Monami. Heisuke had nobody in his life except for his daughter.

...

Heisuke nodded firmly. The gesture was his promise to protect her secret, forever.

...

[what follows is the final paragraph]

Heisuke clenched his fist, but now the tears started flowing down his cheeks before he could even lift his arm. He fell to his knees and, covering his face with dis hands, began to sob himself hoarse.
Aha... I don't have the book yet, so thanks for that.

Yes, Naoko and Heisuke could have done a better job of communicating through this whole experience, but then, married couples aren't always the best at communicating things. Some things just can't be communicated because one or both of the people involved don't want to deal with it.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I describe my own marital status as "happily divorced." :P )

In my opinion, Heisuke brought his fate entirely upon himself. Naoko knew as early as the third or fourth episode that she couldn't live as Naoko any more. She couldn't be Heisuke's wife inside the body of their daughter. She tried to show him that. She tried to tell him that. But he didn't listen. By the time of the big blowup, with Soma-kun leaving and Naoko finding out her room had been bugged and Heisuke still thinking he could just whisk her off to Yokohama for the day and everything would be fine, Naoko was pretty much backed into a corner. Disappearing was the only option she had left. And the fact that Heisuke was still wearing his wedding ring eight years later only demonstrates that she was right.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 19th, '10, 19:36

I saw this episode a while ago, but was a bit busy so now I'm commenting now ^_^
Well, I think it could have been Monami and Naoko going back and forth, yet it does seem possible that Monami probably knew that was the ring in the plushie if her mom wrote it in her letter. Because even though it's a secret, I would have thought the secret was that Naoko was still alive in Monami's body and no one knew. So.... if it was Monami who came back, they both told her about what happened during the course of her absence so I think it's very likely that Monami was Monami for the past 8 years and knew that was the ring. But I think that how the ending ended, that it was Naoko because.... her reaction when Heisuke punched the dude. She did nothing and said nothing. And they BOTH looked miserable walking down the aisle so I think that was a giveaway. Monami probably wouldn't have looked like that walking down... so that's why I think it's Naoko. (and also the fact Monami studied medicine... it was Naoko who wuoldn't to take up medicine....)

What i didn't like about the drama was when/if Monami came back, I wish they had more of a reaction from the whole experience. I mean..... for months her mom was living her life and you wake up... dunno what happened and jsut confused. I would freak out more if my mom foudn out I posed nude for some guy to draw me and things like that....

@BBOvenguy I don't think Heisuke brought this entirely to him. Naoko kept going back and forth with being his wife and being the daughter. She'll call him "Hei-chan" then back to "Otou-san" then back to "Hei-chan." She was also making things difficult and was being a bit undecided. She starts to get jeaouls when the teacher flirts with him, and mad he bought porn.... but she lies to hang out with the kid. But like you said, that's your opinion too...

But I feel bad for both. Heisuke having a son-in-law who is married to his wife.... and Naoko having to now live as her daughter.... and sleep with another man. What I don't like is the fact that... I mean, I guess yeah he might need to move on but moving on does not equal being with someone. I think it's nice that some people loved their dead spouse so much that they don't want to marry again. If they feel like they can't be with anyone else than that person, well.. who are we to judge to have a say? But I don't like... I guess how it was interpreted (sorry for mis-spelling) there is a difference between losing your love one by a break up, and a a forced one by death... just I don't think he has to meet new women to move on because it comes off to me as a rebound. But that's my opinion... maybe I'm too young and naive as older people would put it but whatever.
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Post by BBOvenGuy » Dec 21st, '10, 03:43

«minah» wrote:maybe I'm too young and naive as older people would put it but whatever.
Ha ha... it's okay to be young and naive. I'm older and more jaded. :lol

If anyone's interested, further comments on this series can now be found on my LiveJournal:

http://bbovenguy.livejournal.com/562807.html

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