[Discussion] GOU ~Himetachi no Sengoku~

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Post by avieamber » Jan 19th, '11, 00:55

wolfsbane_desu wrote:
iLLusiOnEr wrote:
bmwracer wrote:Watched Episode 1 again with subs this time... Really strong, well-acted opening act forthe series. :thumright:

I thought the little girl who played the young Chacha looked like a five-year old Ayase Haruka... :mrgreen:
Agreed with you.A great opener.Its been long since i watch any taiga(Yoshitsune the last i think).

That little girl is Ashida Mana.Been hook to her performance since her debut as major role in Mother last year(definitely a must watch drama).The best and youngest child actress to me.Ever since Shida Mirai and Fukuda Mayuko in Queen's Classroom,I think she is the next big child star..(and younger too!). I've been looking forward to see her in the film Usagi Drop and Confession as she's making her debut in big-screen
Yep, she was incredible in "Mother" and she was what, 5-6 years old at the time? She really acted good as Chacha, fierce and strong despite her young age.

Going to watch episode 2 today. For now I am really enjoying the beautiful cinematography!
Agreed! :thumright: She's definitely one of the best child actress around. At least in Japan. I absolutely love her in Mother, totally impressed. It's great to have a great actress like her acting in the same drama as Juri :D although not side by side. I'm looking forward to her new movies as well. That aside, I'm waiting for my episode2 to finish. Tonight i should be able to watch :wub:

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 20th, '11, 04:32

Hmm, after watching Episode 2 again, it appears that this Taiga is filmed rather than videotaped.... Is that a correct observation?

Something special for this 50th Anniversary Taiga?

I like the look of film... It has more professional, elegant feel. :)

Also, the opening scene at the beach is in the Ise Province, where the Ise-Ueno Castle is located... Interesting name coincidence. :mrgreen:
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Post by lullabye » Jan 20th, '11, 05:10

ecco27 wrote:It's always like this in taiga dramas though. When I think about it it's weird but when I watch it I just don't think about it. The reason for it is probably that they want to hurry and introduce the main actress because that's what everyone is really looking forward to and most people aren't interested in watching a child actor lead a show for 15+ episodes.
Really? I've never seen a taiga before, so this idea of adults playing the parts of small children is quite baffling to me. Don't take it as complaining. You saying that is normally like this actually helps. Any other taiga-specific weirdness I should know about?

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 20th, '11, 05:26

^ To me it's no biggie.

If no one had pointed out that the characters being portrayed were supposed to be children, would anyone have noticed or complained about it? :scratch:

From what I've seen so far, I don't think it detracts from the story one bit... If the viewer can't get over the age issue and just dwells on it, it's the viewer's problem, not the Taiga's.
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Post by lullabye » Jan 20th, '11, 07:11

bmwracer wrote:^ To me it's no biggie.

If no one had pointed out that the characters being portrayed were supposed to be children, would anyone have noticed or complained about it? :scratch:

From what I've seen so far, I don't think it detracts from the story one bit... If the viewer can't get over the age issue and just dwells on it, it's the viewer's problem, not the Taiga's.
Yeah, I would have noticed. I would have been very confused at the script and direction. Them being children is sort of important to the plot.

Come on. If the roles had been given to professional sumo wrestlers who also happened to be excellent actors, are you saying that the discrepancy between the actors' appearance and the role wouldn't jar you even the slightest? :lol It's strange, but knowing it's some kind of taiga tradition makes it a bit easier to swallow.

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Post by avieamber » Jan 20th, '11, 07:25

the 2nd episode went by in a flash for me, didn't feel like 40+ mins at all...maybe coz I wanted to see more things happening in the episode. But it was quite slow...nevertheless, I'm looking forward to the next episode. :D

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Post by wolfsbane_desu » Jan 20th, '11, 09:14

It's official, I'm in love with Toyokawa Etsushi's Oda Nobunaga. What a voice and what a presence!

I first recognized the voice, because he was a voice actor for the game "Lost Odyssey", haha!

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Post by zettaiKaren » Jan 20th, '11, 10:41

lullabye wrote:
bmwracer wrote:^ To me it's no biggie.

If no one had pointed out that the characters being portrayed were supposed to be children, would anyone have noticed or complained about it? :scratch:

From what I've seen so far, I don't think it detracts from the story one bit... If the viewer can't get over the age issue and just dwells on it, it's the viewer's problem, not the Taiga's.
Yeah, I would have noticed. I would have been very confused at the script and direction. Them being children is sort of important to the plot.

Come on. If the roles had been given to professional sumo wrestlers who also happened to be excellent actors, are you saying that the discrepancy between the actors' appearance and the role wouldn't jar you even the slightest? :lol It's strange, but knowing it's some kind of taiga tradition makes it a bit easier to swallow.
It's sort of a Taiga tradition, but I've never seen such a big stretch in age gap before. It's usually actors/actresses in their thirties or may be early forties playing late teens, unlike Miyazawa Rie who is in her late thirties playing an eleven year old...are you kidding me? Looking from an opposite angle, I bet there might be people not familiar w/ the story scratching their heads wondering why a bunch of adults are acting like kids (unless they are playing mentally challenged characters), and IMO not very convincing at that.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 20th, '11, 15:38

lullabye wrote:
bmwracer wrote:^ To me it's no biggie.

If no one had pointed out that the characters being portrayed were supposed to be children, would anyone have noticed or complained about it? :scratch:

From what I've seen so far, I don't think it detracts from the story one bit... If the viewer can't get over the age issue and just dwells on it, it's the viewer's problem, not the Taiga's.
Yeah, I would have noticed. I would have been very confused at the script and direction. Them being children is sort of important to the plot.
In this Taiga, I don't think it is.

Since this is a drama and not a documentary, there's always a Suspension of Disbelief factor... And this is it for this drama. :mrgreen:
Come on. If the roles had been given to professional sumo wrestlers who also happened to be excellent actors, are you saying that the discrepancy between the actors' appearance and the role wouldn't jar you even the slightest? :lol
LOL, your example is a gross exaggeration... :P

Honestly, it comes down to this: you either buy into the premise and continue watching or you don't and stop watching... :sweat:
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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 20th, '11, 20:59

If you think the age gap between the actors are their roles are big in this one, you should see Aoi ~Tokugawa Sandai~ from 2000 xD

Ogawa Mayumi was 61 at the time when she played the role of Chacha/Yodo

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 20th, '11, 21:54

Liubeibei wrote:If you think the age gap between the actors are their roles are big in this one, you should see Aoi ~Tokugawa Sandai~ from 2000 xD

Ogawa Mayumi was 61 at the time when she played the role of Chacha/Yodo
LOL... As a teen?

Now that's REALLY Suspension of Disbelief. :lol
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Post by yanie » Jan 20th, '11, 22:39

bmwracer wrote:
Liubeibei wrote:If you think the age gap between the actors are their roles are big in this one, you should see Aoi ~Tokugawa Sandai~ from 2000 xD

Ogawa Mayumi was 61 at the time when she played the role of Chacha/Yodo
LOL... As a teen?

Now that's REALLY Suspension of Disbelief. :lol
Nah... 61-yrs-old Ogawa Mayumi played 29-yrs-old Chacha in the beginning of the drama, not a teen. But still... she had a scene having an affair with a young man, so it was... :crazy: :lol
Speaking of AOI, 25-yrs-old Gou and 19-yrs-old Tokugawa Hidetada were played by actor and actress in their early and late 50s in that drama. They DID play the roles up to their real age, though. It was weird for me, in the beginning, to see young married couple's romance played by actors in their 50s, but I got over it soon, since the story was very good :roll

I didn't realize Nakama Yukie acted a 6 yrs old in Komyo ga Tsuji, the early eps. She didn't act like a 6 yrs old at all XD

But maybe it's for the best. Taiga dramas covers a wide span of time. The character has childhood, teenagehood and adulthood in the drama. If each range of age played by different actors, there might be a sense of discontinuity in the character. It will just feel like they're different characters with the same name.

Not just Japanese taiga, I thought Chinese wuxia series and other country's period dramas, would use the same actor for a wide range of age?

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 20th, '11, 23:10

yanie wrote:I didn't realize Nakama Yukie acted a 6 yrs old in Komyo ga Tsuji, the early eps. She didn't act like a 6 yrs old at all XD
There ya go. :mrgreen:

I guess no one noticed 'cause no one watched...? :P

But maybe it's for the best. Taiga dramas covers a wide span of time. The character has childhood, teenagehood and adulthood in the drama. If each range of age played by different actors, there might be a sense of discontinuity in the character. It will just feel like they're different characters with the same name.
That's a definite possibility. :thumright:
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Post by JUYI » Jan 21st, '11, 17:41

cool~!
I've just finished epi 2 and how I like juri's performance in it....
story wise, so far so good... i'm still at it and looking forward to the next episode!

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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 21st, '11, 20:11

yanie wrote:I didn't realize Nakama Yukie acted a 6 yrs old in Komyo ga Tsuji, the early eps. She didn't act like a 6 yrs old at all XD
Actually a young girl (around 10 at the time?) played the young Chiyo.

But yeah I'm used to adults playing teens (or this year, pre-teens XD) in Taiga by now hehe.

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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 21st, '11, 20:19

yanie wrote:Nah... 61-yrs-old Ogawa Mayumi played 29-yrs-old Chacha in the beginning of the drama, not a teen. But still... she had a scene having an affair with a young man, so it was... :crazy: :lol
OMG I remember a kissing scene between them...I was like O.O when I first saw it.

The "young man," Ono Harunaga, is supposed to be the same age as Chacha/Yodo lol as they were both born in 1569.

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Post by zettaiKaren » Jan 21st, '11, 20:58

yanie wrote:[I didn't realize Nakama Yukie acted a 6 yrs old in Komyo ga Tsuji, the early eps. She didn't act like a 6 yrs old at all XD
Hmmm....I'm quite sure there's a child actress for Nakama Yukie's role in her childhood (confirmed by drama-wiki, but doesn't list when Nakama took over so I'll have to go back and check). "Komyo ga Tsuji" is another Taiga I don't like because it used a lot of actors/actresses playing characters that were at least barely half their age. No offense to Tachi Hiroshi as he's a great actor, but he (already in his 50's) played Oda Nobunaga starting from the battle of Okehazama when he was in his twenties. Since it's the 1st episode, that turned me off so that's one I only watched on and off, and only if I had nothing else better to do (so maybe that's the reason I didn't pay attention to Nakama's age when she took over).

yanie wrote:But maybe it's for the best. Taiga dramas covers a wide span of time. The character has childhood, teenagehood and adulthood in the drama. If each range of age played by different actors, there might be a sense of discontinuity in the character. It will just feel like they're different characters with the same name.
IMHO, that all depends on the production budget, script, and actors/actressess chosen. In 'Saka no Ue no Kumo" (a 3 part mini Taiga comprising of 13 episodes - but 90 mins each, so it's equivalent to half the length of a regular Taiga), they used 2 child actors to play Abe Hiroshi's childhood/teenagehood parts just for the 1st 35 mins of ep. 1 (I guess Abe's just too tall to even play a teen); and child actors/actress to play the childhood part for the other 3 major charactors. Asking Kagawa Teruyuki to play a teen is a bit of a stretch, but that only lasted 1 ep. and by the end of ep. 1 all the major characters are in their twenties or early thirties. IMO, that's another factor - if the duration is short, it makes it much less jarring.

Bottomline, I guess it all depends mostly on the script and personal preference. If a large part of it happens during the major character's childhood to early teenagehood, then the producer/director will have to make a hard decision. And if you don't have a problem watching a adult playing a child for a large part of the drama, then more power to you. For me, I've already decided to drop it given Yanie's analysis of what episode Gou's going to reach mid-teens, and this is probably going to be my last post on this drama.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 21st, '11, 21:43

zettaiKaren wrote:For me, I've already decided to drop it given Yanie's analysis of what episode Gou's going to reach mid-teens, and this is probably going to be my last post on this drama.
Aww. :pale:
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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 21st, '11, 22:06

One of the reasons why Nakama Yukie had to show up early in Komyo, IMO, is because, if all timelines are correct, Chiyo married Yamauchi Kazutoyo at the age of about 12. There was no way they were gonna have Kamikawa Takaya (around 40 back then) marrying Nagai Anzu (who played young Chiyo at the age of 14).

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Post by Issy » Jan 21st, '11, 22:40

zettaiKaren wrote: Bottomline, I guess it all depends mostly on the script and personal preference. If a large part of it happens during the major character's childhood to early teenagehood, then the producer/director will have to make a hard decision. And if you don't have a problem watching a adult playing a child for a large part of the drama, then more power to you. For me, I've already decided to drop it given Yanie's analysis of what episode Gou's going to reach mid-teens, and this is probably going to be my last post on this drama.
Unfortunately, it's the same case for me. the age issue is just too much not to notice and enjoy the drama so i will be dropping it too. I have not seen enough taiga to consider this a normal issue that happens most of times. maybe i pick it up again once Juri-chan has reached a more realistic age. I like Juri's acting. but i guess not enough to be convinced that is normal to portray a 6 years old kid at age of 24. 18 years difference is just too big to ingnore. sometimes it does not show much between middle age and twenty something age person but it definitely shows with under 10 kids.
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Post by yanie » Jan 21st, '11, 22:51

Someone mentioned before in this forum (and also in a Japanese board) that Nakama Yukie acted a 6 yrs old in Komyo, and I didn't believe it at first. But then as I checked the real historical figure, Chiyo's birth year, and saw the year in the drama's ep where Nakama Yukie first appeared, apparently it's true she was suppose to be 6 there. So it means the child actress was playing a 4-5 years old Chiyo? :blink
But then the drama itself never mentioned Chiyo's birth year or age when she first appeared, so it was kind of confusing.

So, in the end, for Taiga dramas, I decided not to pay attention to age details and just enjoy the story :mrgreen:
I was a bit curious though, of when will Juri play the adult Gou, thus I made that age range for each eps :P

As for GOU, to sum it up, the 1st season will cover Gou's childhood, the 2nd season will cover her teenagehood and the 3rd season is her adulthood. Not sure what the 4th season would be about. I really hope they'll show her sons' rivalry story, Iemitsu(Takechiyo) and Tadanaga(Kunimatsu), but since the chilldhood and teenagehood have taken up much of the story portion, I guess there are only a few eps left for her old age period.
Last edited by yanie on Jan 22nd, '11, 00:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 21st, '11, 23:28

yanie wrote:So, in the end, for Taiga dramas, I decided not to pay attention to age details and just enjoy the story :mrgreen:
YES. :thumright:

You guys are going to miss out on some really good acting, as the first two episodes have clearly shown.... Oh well.
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Post by Peggy » Jan 22nd, '11, 01:06

So far ages of characters and ages of actors have not bothered me as yet. In reality marriages were arranged when children were very young, but the girl would be transported off to her husband and in a way would be sort of a hostage. Nothing unusual during the early histories. Even a 12 year old girl could be married off to a very much older man altho she would be looked after for a few years by the ladies of the court
until she was maybe fifteen or so. Nothing unusual in those days.
I am definitely looking forward to this taiga. I am just a little sorry that I will not see a great deal more of Oda Nobunaga. I am an admirer of that man. He never looked liked a child in my opinion. Even when Takuya Kimura played him as a very young man you could tell that Nobunage was halfway to being the tough samurai and when he changed into the ceremonial robes he shocked the rest of the older men. That is when he began to sort out who would be his surrounding supporters. And in this present taiga we see who remained with him from those early days. They all look rather battle scarred I think. Nobunage quite fierce.
For me Juri-chan is portaying a girl of about eleven in the way one from a noble family would act. Remember they are not street urchins and have been trained in good manners. She doesn't even look her real age in my opinion.
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Post by bmwracer » Jan 22nd, '11, 06:22

Peggy wrote:For me Juri-chan is portaying a girl of about eleven in the way one from a noble family would act. Remember they are not street urchins and have been trained in good manners. She doesn't even look her real age in my opinion.
It's all good BMW.
It most definitely is.

Can't wait for Episode 3. :thumleft:
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Re: Yaayyyy....

Post by fie_lin » Jan 22nd, '11, 15:46

kiddygrade wrote:
I, too, am a fan of Atsuhime (we, at MS-Kissa, are currently subbing it in French) and of its composer, Ryo Yoshimata, who also composes the score for GOU. Of course, I also love Ueno Juri and Mukai Osamu. That's the reason(s) why I would really liked if someone would upload Gou and, of course, if someone could sub it. Bmwracer talked about a possible Hawaii-version, but I think it's precisely this version which was uploaded for Atsu and the translation was very unaccurate, alas. A real good fansub would be far better… Maybe one could ask qop123 for the Japanese script? It would be a first step of sorts…

I'm sorry, i went home for 2 weeks and no internet access there so i can't reply soon.
I'm glad to meet another Atsuhime fans :cheers: . I watch it again and again until now :P . My reason to watch Gou is also juri-chan and mukai-kun :mrgreen:
At first i worried that i couldn't watch Gou for my entire life because no one upload and sub it. But thanks to Liubeibei. You're our savior :D
After watched 2 ep with subtitle, i'm quite satisfied. But i don't know why, i feel something missing. Maybe because the story pace or lack of characteristic in each character. I'm afraid that it's because Atsuhime is keeping in my mind. I should watch Gou again and get rid of Atsuhime shadow in my mind :lol
I don't bother with age gap. I can pretend that i know nothing about it. Surely, i will keep loyal to Gou. I'm excited to watch Gou love story with her three husbands especially Hidetada :wub:
And I hate hideyoshi hashiba because he is such a playboy but i like his cheerful characteristic at the same time :mrgreen: [/spoiler]

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Post by 7th-key » Jan 23rd, '11, 17:20

One last thing on the age discussion:
I don't think it would be even legal to have a kid working all the hours required for the lead in 10+ episodes under the rigid weekly schedule of a one year long show like a Taiga.

And now back waiting for episode 3. :mrgreen:
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Post by yanie » Jan 24th, '11, 03:11

Ep3 -> 22.6% :thumright: Up, up and away!
I'm excited to watch Gou love story with her three husbands especially Hidetada :wub:
Me too :wub: Can't wait until Gou's love story starts.
But, I guess there would be not so much romance with the 1st husband, since she'd only be 11-12 on the first marriage. And I'm getting dokidoki bcoz the cast for Toyotomi Hidekatsu [2nd husband] has not been announced yet. (still secretly wishing for Tamaki Hiroshi to be casted :P muri ka..)

Still a long way till Hidetada appears though... :unsure: Just checked new info on WIKI, apparently 12 years old Hidetada will really be acted by a 12 years old actor, Kakazu Issei (little Ariake Taisuke in "Ryusei no Kizuna"). Feeling between disappointed and glad XD Disappointed coz that means Mukai's appearance is still further away. Glad coz that means, unlike the sisters, Mukai would only portray the adult Hidetada^^
I guess it's necessary for Gou and Hidetada's first met scene, for the teen-Hidetada to be actually played by a boy, to remind the viewers that Gou is, in fact, 6 years older than him.
I predict the boy-Hidetada will appear around Ep22. Mukai would only appear around Ep28-29, I guess... *sighs*

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 24th, '11, 05:09

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 24th, '11, 14:43

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Post by seshilia » Jan 24th, '11, 19:11

# It's very interesting seeing the jesuit missionaries...and their Portuguese-spoken-by-a-Japanese. :-)
They were in the 1st episode, but in this 3rd we can see more of them and even Gou trying to speak some Portuguese. :D

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Post by Peggy » Jan 24th, '11, 20:28

I doubt that Nobunaga would have the time to spend so much of it showing Gou all around his castle and gardens and temples. However it was rather nice to see his companion following silently everywhere they went. what a beautiful creature he is ...here at least. I don't think I have ever seen a drawing or portrait of him.

I have seen a portrait of Nobunaga and he looks much fiercer than the actor playing the role in this drama.

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Post by 7th-key » Jan 25th, '11, 23:19

seshilia wrote:# It's very interesting seeing the jesuit missionaries...and their Portuguese-spoken-by-a-Japanese. :-)
They were in the 1st episode, but in this 3rd we can see more of them and even Gou trying to speak some Portuguese. :D
What is the Portuguese phrase Gou is repeating?

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Post by seshilia » Jan 26th, '11, 02:08

7th-key wrote: What is the Portuguese phrase Gou is repeating?
It seems that Gou went by herself to Azuchi and at this scene she is present at a meeting between Nobunaga and Padre ルイス・フロイス (something like "Luis Frois").

The scene is nantoka like this:

The padre praises the robustness of the Azuchi castle and asks for permission to establish a seminary there.
Nobunaga then responds, in Portuguese: Assim seja.
Padre Luis also says that an important priest (if you prefer ^^") will come from Rome, the next year. And he'd appreciate if Nobunaga could welcome him.
Nobunaga responds again, and Gou repeats: Assim seja. XD
Finally answering your question, "assim seja" literally means "so be it." In Japanese appears よかろう (yokarou), which can be better translated as "very well," I think.
Anyway, it seems there are lots of Nobunaga & Gou sugoi moments in this 3rd episode. :-)

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Post by yanie » Jan 26th, '11, 04:20

seshilia wrote:Anyway, it seems there are lots of Nobunaga & Gou sugoi moments in this 3rd episode. :-)
Tabuchi Kumiko (scriptwriter) is a big fan of Oda Nobunaga. Thus, seem like she's trying to make Gou's life and point of view affected much by Nobunaga. Plus, she's trying to imply that Gou is the female version of Nobunaga. (as Ieyasu said, that she resembles Nobunaga)
I guess the historical fact, that Tokugawa Hidetada, the 2nd shogun, Gou's husband, could never oppose to anything Gou say (in Japanese, it says 'tsuma(Gou) ni atama agaranai', how shld I translate that?), and made him popular as the hen-pecked husband, made Gou herself have this stubborn and strong-willed image among the historians. Hence... the female version of Oda Nobunaga :roll

I like the feel that Oda Nobunaga has a favorite niece in this drama, though. I never see him having any interaction with a child before in other adaptations.

I was interested about Nobunaga's past (he killed his own brother) too. And I'm happy this story was mentioned in this drama. I only saw this incident portrayed once in Kimura Takuya's "Oda Nobunaga" adaptation. (Peggy, I love that drama too! Esp. Nakatani Miki as No-hime!)

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Post by 7th-key » Jan 26th, '11, 12:55

seshilia wrote:
7th-key wrote: What is the Portuguese phrase Gou is repeating?
It seems that Gou went by herself to Azuchi and at this scene she is present at a meeting between Nobunaga and Padre ルイス・フロイス (something like "Luis Frois").

The scene is nantoka like this:

The padre praises the robustness of the Azuchi castle and asks for permission to establish a seminary there.
Nobunaga then responds, in Portuguese: Assim seja.
Padre Luis also says that an important priest (if you prefer ^^") will come from Rome, the next year. And he'd appreciate if Nobunaga could welcome him.
Nobunaga responds again, and Gou repeats: Assim seja. XD
Finally answering your question, "assim seja" literally means "so be it." In Japanese appears よかろう (yokarou), which can be better translated as "very well," I think.
Anyway, it seems there are lots of Nobunaga & Gou sugoi moments in this 3rd episode. :-)
Thank you , seshilia, for the Portuguese insight! :thumright:
Having a global discussion is quite practical. :mrgreen:

I liked episode 03 a lot.
It was like "A day in the life of Nobunaga" mixed with "Little Gō and the mystery of the Tsukiyama-dono incident".
Juri-chan's acting was marvellous: Gō is constantly going through so many different emotions.
As for the writing, the seasickness was a stroke of genius. XD

EDIT: thx beem, I found the missing 'N'...
Last edited by 7th-key on Jan 26th, '11, 15:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 26th, '11, 14:44

^ That's Nobunaga, not Obunaga. :P

Re: Episode 3:
The scene with the Jesuit(?) priest was gold: Juri-chan played the naive, curious, and precocious youngster perfectly. :clap:
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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 27th, '11, 11:53

seshilia wrote:Finally answering your question, "assim seja" literally means "so be it." In Japanese appears よかろう (yokarou), which can be better translated as "very well," I think.
Anyway, it seems there are lots of Nobunaga & Gou sugoi moments in this 3rd episode. :-)
Good thing my subs turned out the way it did...because I was torn between "Very well" and "So be it" I ended up choosing the former because it just sounds more appropriate given the situation.

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Post by lullabye » Jan 27th, '11, 13:32

Peggy wrote:it was rather nice to see his companion following silently everywhere they went. what a beautiful creature he is ...here at least. I don't think I have ever seen a drawing or portrait of him.

I have seen a portrait of Nobunaga and he looks much fiercer than the actor playing the role in this drama.
He is indeed beautiful. Seto Koji is a stunning beauty, just right for Ranmaru. The brothers are all well picked. They actually seem like they could be brothers, in both looks and demeanor. I expect to be weeping big old tears for the Mori boys in two weeks.

I've seen that portrait of Nobunaga, too. I guess they want to show that Nobunaga had a softer, personal side. If he did, from what I read, he reserved it for Ranmaru. But this fictive relationship with Gou is interesting and really sets up her character.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 27th, '11, 14:34

7th-key wrote:EDIT: thx beem, I found the missing 'N'...
That's good... I was afraid we might have to file a Missing Letter report to the police. :P
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Post by seshilia » Jan 27th, '11, 16:35

yanie wrote:Tabuchi Kumiko (scriptwriter) is a big fan of Oda Nobunaga. Thus, seem like she's trying to make Gou's life and point of view affected much by Nobunaga. Plus, she's trying to imply that Gou is the female version of Nobunaga. (as Ieyasu said, that she resembles Nobunaga)
That's right, and I think she (Kumiko-san) is doing a great job with that.
7th-key wrote:Thank you , seshilia, for the Portuguese insight! :thumright:
Having a global discussion is quite practical. :mrgreen:
You're welcome! And yeah, it's really nice! I'm glad I could help by explaining that. :D
7th-key wrote:As for the writing, the seasickness was a stroke of genius.
I guess it was her first time, wasn't it? XD
Liubeibei wrote:Good thing my subs turned out the way it did...because I was torn between "Very well" and "So be it" I ended up choosing the former because it just sounds more appropriate given the situation.
IMO, it was the most appropriated one. Good job! :thumleft:

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Post by 7th-key » Jan 27th, '11, 21:17

bmwracer wrote:
7th-key wrote:EDIT: thx beem, I found the missing 'N'...
That's good... I was afraid we might have to file a Missing Letter report to the police. :P
We'd have to wait 48 hours to do that, by then I'd have already been forced to commit seppuku:


Image
Yours truly, Nobunaga.

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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 27th, '11, 21:55

I think I'd be sick more so in a palanquin than on a boat XD

On a side note, nothing says "hey, how's it going?" quite like:
Dear Takechiyo,

Kill your wife and heir.

Best regards,
Nobunaga

PS: we should have a few drinks some time :cheers:

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Post by 7th-key » Jan 27th, '11, 22:17

Liubeibei wrote:I think I'd be sick more so in a palanquin than on a boat XD

On a side note, nothing says "hey, how's it going?" quite like:
Dear Takechiyo,

Kill your wife and heir.

Best regards,
Nobunaga

PS: we should have a few drinks some time :cheers:
PPS: bring the skulls. :mrgreen:

(I can't even recognize half a radical on that cursive kanji :()

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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 27th, '11, 22:35

Skulls...hahaha

Personally I suck at reading cursive English already lol...

I do see that to the right of "Nobugaga," it says "June," or sixth month.

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Post by bmwracer » Jan 28th, '11, 01:03

^ BTW, do you run your subs through a spell-checker at all?

The one misspelling I can recall was "toyalty" instead of "loyalty."
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Post by Liubeibei » Jan 28th, '11, 01:28

I did, but then I made some change to a few lines and forgot to rerun it, the other one was workmanship, I put worksmanship D:

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Post by wolfsbane_desu » Jan 28th, '11, 13:10

Finally watched episode 3!
I'm glad we get to know more about Oda Nobunaga. He is such an interesting historical figure.

Also it's funny that it was a Brasilian playing the part of a Portuguese missionary. It sounded really awkward listening to Brasilian Portuguese, but I suppose foreigners can't really tell the difference.
Still, pretty weird and even funny since Portugal had discovered Brasil only 80 years earlier :D, and then we get a Brasilian missionary!

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Post by lullabye » Jan 29th, '11, 21:47

wolfsbane_desu wrote:Also it's funny that it was a Brasilian playing the part of a Portuguese missionary. It sounded really awkward listening to Brasilian Portuguese, but I suppose foreigners can't really tell the difference.
Still, pretty weird and even funny since Portugal had discovered Brasil only 80 years earlier :D, and then we get a Brasilian missionary!
Supposedly, colonies preserve the speech pattern of the mother country at the time of colonization, so, if that is really true, Brazilian Portuguese is actually closer to what the friars would have spoken than what someone from Portugal nowadays speaks.

But, like you said, we non-Portuguese speakers can't tell the difference anyways! :lol

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Post by wolfsbane_desu » Jan 29th, '11, 23:10

lullabye wrote:
wolfsbane_desu wrote:Also it's funny that it was a Brasilian playing the part of a Portuguese missionary. It sounded really awkward listening to Brasilian Portuguese, but I suppose foreigners can't really tell the difference.
Still, pretty weird and even funny since Portugal had discovered Brasil only 80 years earlier :D, and then we get a Brasilian missionary!
Supposedly, colonies preserve the speech pattern of the mother country at the time of colonization, so, if that is really true, Brazilian Portuguese is actually closer to what the friars would have spoken than what someone from Portugal nowadays speaks.

But, like you said, we non-Portuguese speakers can't tell the difference anyways! :lol
Actually, Brasilians speak in a verbal time we Portuguese no longer use. So it is closer to the old Portuguese spoken at the time, however the accent is completely Brasilian and you can't disguise that at all.
It would be the same as an American with a thick Southern accent trying to pass for a British of the royal family, that's how different it sounds.

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Post by lullabye » Jan 30th, '11, 01:04

wolfsbane_desu wrote:
lullabye wrote:
wolfsbane_desu wrote:Also it's funny that it was a Brasilian playing the part of a Portuguese missionary. It sounded really awkward listening to Brasilian Portuguese, but I suppose foreigners can't really tell the difference.
Still, pretty weird and even funny since Portugal had discovered Brasil only 80 years earlier :D, and then we get a Brasilian missionary!
Supposedly, colonies preserve the speech pattern of the mother country at the time of colonization, so, if that is really true, Brazilian Portuguese is actually closer to what the friars would have spoken than what someone from Portugal nowadays speaks.

But, like you said, we non-Portuguese speakers can't tell the difference anyways! :lol
Actually, Brasilians speak in a verbal time we Portuguese no longer use. So it is closer to the old Portuguese spoken at the time, however the accent is completely Brasilian and you can't disguise that at all.
It would be the same as an American with a thick Southern accent trying to pass for a British of the royal family, that's how different it sounds.
Since accents also change over time, it is doubtful that the Portuguese of the 1580s was anything like either modern Brazil's or Portugal's, but I can understand it sounding wrong to you. I've had the same problem with English language movies when actors who aren't good with accent mimicry are cast in roles where their native accent doesn't fit at all.

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Post by wolfsbane_desu » Jan 30th, '11, 10:26

lullabye wrote:
wolfsbane_desu wrote:
lullabye wrote:
Supposedly, colonies preserve the speech pattern of the mother country at the time of colonization, so, if that is really true, Brazilian Portuguese is actually closer to what the friars would have spoken than what someone from Portugal nowadays speaks.

But, like you said, we non-Portuguese speakers can't tell the difference anyways! :lol
Actually, Brasilians speak in a verbal time we Portuguese no longer use. So it is closer to the old Portuguese spoken at the time, however the accent is completely Brasilian and you can't disguise that at all.
It would be the same as an American with a thick Southern accent trying to pass for a British of the royal family, that's how different it sounds.
Since accents also change over time, it is doubtful that the Portuguese of the 1580s was anything like either modern Brazil's or Portugal's, but I can understand it sounding wrong to you. I've had the same problem with English language movies when actors who aren't good with accent mimicry are cast in roles where their native accent doesn't fit at all.
The accent didn't change, just the verbal time used, as well as some words.
It's like the Japanese spoken in Taiga is different from the Modern Japanese spoken now, etc.
And the missionary in the series was using a modern Brasilian accent, which like i say is as different from Portuguese from Portugal as American southern accent is from English from Britain.

But no point nitpicking since it probably sounds the same for non Portuguese people. I understand why they casted a Brasilian actor instead of a Portuguese one. It was such a small scene anyway.

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Post by yanie » Jan 31st, '11, 01:58

Ep4 rating -> 21.5% (dropped 1.1%)
(all good, as long as it does not drop below 20%^^)

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Post by biniBningPunkista » Jan 31st, '11, 12:57

i hope it doesn't drop even lower! i told myself i wasn't going to watch another taiga drama after atsu-hime but then... gou was too interesting not watch it. so yey for juri!

i am so taken with Oda and his violence and his unreasonable ways with his subordinates but the fact that Gou takes it all in without a grudge is quite intriguing. her character is full of innocence and for someone so young, she's a bit nosy. LOL

looking forward to episode 4. i'm all for girl power!

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Post by dk75 » Jan 31st, '11, 20:15

wolfsbane_desu wrote:I understand why they casted a Brasilian actor instead of a Portuguese one. It was such a small scene anyway.
Because it is easier to find Brasilian in Japan than for Jew in Bethlehem... :whistling:
While Portuguese are tourist mostly (if not only)
I m going down...

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Post by bmwracer » Feb 1st, '11, 00:23

Eeek, where's Episode 4?

I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms... :P
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Post by kiddygrade » Feb 1st, '11, 08:01

@bmwracer : off topic in a way, but did you notice that the image in your signature is the one which was chosen for the OST ? So nice :wub:

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Post by yanie » Feb 1st, '11, 09:09

kiddygrade wrote:@bmwracer : off topic in a way, but did you notice that the image in your signature is the one which was chosen for the OST ? So nice :wub:
Is the OST out already?? :w00t: I love the BGMs so much, sofar, and need them in my player badly XD

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Post by bmwracer » Feb 1st, '11, 14:22

kiddygrade wrote:@bmwracer : off topic in a way, but did you notice that the image in your signature is the one which was chosen for the OST ? So nice :wub:
I didn't know that... I just found the pic from a 'net search. :)
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Post by bmwracer » Feb 1st, '11, 16:22

If you need me to seed Ueno Juri-chan or Yonekura Ryoko-chan stuff, please PM me. :salut:

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Post by kiddygrade » Feb 1st, '11, 17:19

bmwracer wrote:
kiddygrade wrote:@bmwracer : off topic in a way, but did you notice that the image in your signature is the one which was chosen for the OST ? So nice :wub:
I didn't know that... I just found the pic from a 'net search. :)
Well, anyway, the people in charge of the packaging have great taste, this photo is superb. (And so is the music!)

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Post by yanie » Feb 3rd, '11, 22:57

EXILE's AKIRA casted as Toyotomi Hidekatsu, Gou's 2nd husband: http://community.livejournal.com/tokugawa_gou/7143.html

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Post by 7th-key » Feb 4th, '11, 00:06

yanie wrote:EXILE's AKIRA casted as Toyotomi Hidekatsu, Gou's 2nd husband: http://community.livejournal.com/tokugawa_gou/7143.html
also on the official webpage :)
http://www9.nhk.or.jp/go/news/20110204.html

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Post by bmwracer » Feb 4th, '11, 00:35

7th-key wrote:
yanie wrote:EXILE's AKIRA casted as Toyotomi Hidekatsu, Gou's 2nd husband: http://community.livejournal.com/tokugawa_gou/7143.html
also on the official webpage :)
http://www9.nhk.or.jp/go/news/20110204.html
Thankfully, he doesn't look like a girlie man.... Whew. :sweat:
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Post by yanie » Feb 4th, '11, 04:40

I wrote this to kill time the other day :roll

The Chronology of The Sengoku Flowers, Three Azai Sisters' Lives.
*contains SPOILER*
1568 - Nobunaga's sister, Ichi married to Azai Nagamasa.

1569 - Birth of Chacha.
1570 - Birth of Hatsu. (Battle of Anegawa)

1573 - Birth of Gou. The fall of Odani castle. Father, Azai Nagamasa commited seppuku. Ichi and her three daughters were back to the Oda clan.

1582 - The Honnoji Incident. Nobunaga was killed by Akechi Mitsuhide.
Due to the political circumstances, Ichi re-married to Shibata Katsuie.

1583 - Katsuie lost to Hideyoshi in the Shizugatake battle. Ichi commited suicide with Katsuie, together with the fall of the Kitanosho castle. Toyotomi Hideyoshi adopted the three sisters.

1584 - By Hideyoshi's order, Gou married Saji Kazunari. The first time, one of the sister separated temporarily.
In the middle of Komaki-Nagakute battle, Hideyoshi separated Gou and Kazunari in the same year. Gou is back living together with her two sisters.

1587 - Hatsu married Kyogoku Takatsugu, a relative. Chacha and Gou were left together.

1588 - Chacha became Hideyoshi's concubine.

1592 - By Hideyoshi's order, Gou married Hideyoshi's nephew, Hidekatsu. But in the same year, Hidekatsu died in the Korean war.

1593 - Gou gave birth to Sadako, her daughter with Hidekatsu.

1595 - By Hideyoshi's order, Gou married Tokugawa Hidetada, Ieyasu's son. As it is not appropriate to raise a Toyotomi inside the Tokugawa family, Gou had to leave her daughter, Sadako, in the Toyotomi clan. Chacha adopted Sadako. Even after her marriage with Hidekatsu, Chacha and Gou had always been living near each other, this is the first time they were completely separated.

Chacha in the Toyotomi clan. Hatsu in the Kyogoku clan. Gou in the Tokugawa clan.

1600 - Battle of Sekigahara: Tokugawa Ieyasu vs Ishida Mitsunari (both sides claimed to fight in the name of Toyotomi clan).

1603 - Ieyasu established the Tokugawa shogunate.
In the same year, Gou and Hidetada's first daughter, Sen-hime, married to Chacha's son, Toyotomi Hideyori.

1605 - Tokugawa Hidetada, Gou's husband, became the 2nd shogun.

1609 - The fall of Otsu castle (Kyogoku clan) and Takatsugu died. Hatsu moved in to the Osaka castle (Toyotomi clan). Chacha and Hatsu live together once again.

1614 - A war between Toyotomi (Chacha) and Tokugawa (Ieyasu) broke that will lead to the Siege of Osaka castle. Hatsu had the role as a negotiator/intermediate between the two clans in this war. The climax of the sisters' story in this drama would be this part, I guess.

1615 - Chacha commited suicide with her son, Hideyori. Hatsu moved in to the Edo castle (Tokugawa clan) and lived together with Gou, once again. Hatsu and Gou lived in the same castle until Gou died in 1626.

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Post by 7th-key » Feb 4th, '11, 18:15

^ Your information from the book is always interesting, yanie.
By the way, do you know if there is a difference between the first release (two volumes) and the new one (three volumes)?

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Post by bmwracer » Feb 6th, '11, 01:39

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Post by yanie » Feb 6th, '11, 12:03

I'm very amused, this must be the most romantic Nobunaga, to date :D
So there was a rumor abt him being a pedophil? :whistling: :lol

A very dramatized version of Honnoji Incident, I like it very much! The Honnoji incident in "Komyo ga Tsuji" was done in a more subtle way. But I like Gou's version better. I dunno, maybe coz I like dramatizations :P The counting-down days scenes, built up the tense good. For those who had seen scenes of Honnoji Incident in "Toshiie to Matsu", "Tenchijin" and/or other adaptation, pls share your opinions comparing them with Gou's version. I'd really like to know :roll

I like how Ieyasu is very yasashii, caring toward Gou, and acting like her guardian/protector. Tokugawa Ieyasu is one of my fav historical figure, so it's just amusing to see him taking care of a little princess, treating her as the boss, and yet they'll be in-laws in the future :D

To sum it up, this drama is totally a shoujo-manga version of the Sengoku history :lol
And I'm surprised I'm not hating it at all. Haha~

If Gou-Nobunaga's scenes are this romantic already, then I'll better be ready for the lovey-dovey scenes with her husbands :P

I think Ep6 would even be more exciting. It's Mimura's character's turn to shine :thumright:

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Post by Liubeibei » Feb 6th, '11, 13:13

I can't wait for this adaptation of Honnoji!

I've watched the incident played out in Toshiie to Matsu (the very first Honnoji for me), Komyo ga Tsuji, Tenchijin, and Tokugawa Ieyasu (in the early 80s).

My favorite one thus far would have to be Komyo. Tachi Hiroshi's Nobunaga is just crazy!
As for the rest, each has its special points.
In Tokugawa Ieyasu, the scene follows very closely to Yamaoka Sohachi's novel, which I liked
In Toshiie to Matsu, Sorimachi Takashi walking into the fire was a nice touch I thought
In Tenchijin, iirc it had a scene with Kenshin showing up and "lecturing" Nobunaga? I forgot

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Post by yanie » Feb 7th, '11, 02:19

Thank you for sharing the various Honnoji Incidents!

Ep5 rating -> 22.0% :thumleft:

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Post by bmwracer » Feb 7th, '11, 05:44

yanie wrote:If Gou-Nobunaga's scenes are this romantic already, then I'll better be ready for the lovey-dovey scenes with her husbands :P
Romantic? :scratch:
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Post by yanie » Feb 7th, '11, 07:42

bmwracer wrote:Romantic? :scratch:
It depends on how each audience see it.

But apparently, this article mentioned, that in this adaptation, Nobunaga is Gou's first love, indeed :mrgreen:
http://zasshi.news.yahoo.co.jp/article? ... the_tv-ent

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Post by chokubi » Feb 7th, '11, 15:51

Regarding the differences, Toshiie to Matsu was definitely more thorough and specific about the incidents and their details that led Akechi to gradually disagree then hate Nobunaga more and more.
The final "deal-breaker" between the two was different too *I think* (it wasn't because of the Shikoku campaign IIRC, someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
The "flavor text" of Nobunaga's death was through some fiery CG as Liubeibei indicated, in addition, silently bidding farewell to Maeda Toshiie.

In Tenchijin, there was a spiritual conversation going on between him and Uesugi Kenshin (who was already dead then, so you got it right, Liubeibei) in his final moments, about leadership values.
He slit his belly this time, I think, so not much fire was needed, heh. About the incidents that led to the attack, a lot less was covered but least the essential details were mentioned via the narrator.

Coming back to the styles of Nobunaga's death scene, apparently no one saw how he died so I guess that's where the writers will get creative and incorporate the lead (or someone close) into his last minutes.
So we may see something similar in the next episode of GOU (with Ueno Juri, hopefully).
Personally, I'll be looking out for the signature scene where Nobunaga (clad in his white robes) fends off the attack with his bow and arrows. Can't wait till ep5!

(Note to self: Start watching Komyo ga Tsuji :mrgreen:)

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bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » Feb 7th, '11, 16:48

yanie wrote:
bmwracer wrote:Romantic? :scratch:
It depends on how each audience see it.

But apparently, this article mentioned, that in this adaptation, Nobunaga is Gou's first love, indeed :mrgreen:
http://zasshi.news.yahoo.co.jp/article? ... the_tv-ent
I'll take your word for it, since I can't read nihon-go. :pale:
If you need me to seed Ueno Juri-chan or Yonekura Ryoko-chan stuff, please PM me. :salut:

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Liubeibei
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Post by Liubeibei » Feb 7th, '11, 17:21

In a lot of the adaptations I've watched/read, the final straw for Mitsuhide's betrayal is where Nobunaga sends him to reinforce Hideyoshi, giving him the provinces Izumo and Iwami (which he still has to conquer first), while taking away his Sakamoto Castle. So it's like your home is taken away, and even though you're promised a house at a different location, you still have to kill the current owner of that house before moving in.

From reading the official site's ep 5 preview, I think it mentions the above scenario.

A familiar scene that the Gou version is missing is where Nobunaga invites Ieyasu to Azuchi, with Mitsuhide being the one taking care of the hospitality. Nobunaga then humiliates Mitsuhide in front of Ieyasu because of various reasons (depends on each adaptation). Nobunaga then replaces Mitsuhide with Hori Hidemasa and sends him to reinforce Hideyoshi as mentioned above.

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bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » Feb 7th, '11, 18:01

^ Nobunaga really abused Mitsuhide for whatever reason... Quite the sadist, it seems. :sweat:
If you need me to seed Ueno Juri-chan or Yonekura Ryoko-chan stuff, please PM me. :salut:

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