[Discussion] Tsuki no Koibito

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

Who do you want Rensuke (Kimura Takuya) to end up with?

Maemi (Shinohara Ryoko)
147
53%
Xiu Mei (Lin Chiling)
69
25%
Kazami (Matsuda Shota)
23
8%
Nobody
14
5%
I don't care
25
9%
 
Total votes: 278

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trasuachieumua
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Post by trasuachieumua » Jul 11th, '10, 03:01

notoriousnoona: Love your list XD Please say about it XD I want to read it XD



------------

I watched the finale ep again and again but can't stop myself to love it so much XD

It's very touching when Maemi said she want to look at Ren's back so she encourage him to keep running. And then in the airport Xiu Mei said that she want to shining so Ren can see her althought they're not together.

One want to look at and the other want to be look at.
One want to stand behind him and the other want to shining.

It is so meaning ne?

And the sence they look at the moon through the glass-window then Ren say "So close, it's almost a full moon." so Maemi reply "It's not so close. It's nice as is." made me think about our lives.

The moon is always as it is ne? It never change the shape, but because we stand in the earth so we can't see the true shape of the moon and sometimes it's full, sometime it's crescent. Just as our lives, sometime we don't see clearly what we have, what we want and what we need. And sometime we think that we understand everything but actually we can't understand anything. It is so touching :-)

I love this drama so much :wub:

And the conversation about the moon, my mother said that it means in life many thing always being but we don't realize it althoght we see it everyday and even we can touch it. Ren and Maemi in many years they're together, they have the feeling and love but they can't connect to the other.

The crescent moon as our lives, we must find the way to fill it up as the way to see the full moon.

:-)
Last edited by trasuachieumua on Jul 11th, '10, 04:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peggy » Jul 11th, '10, 03:26

I plead guilty to not liking Chi Ling in this drama. I felt it was bad casting from the start. After reading in many places that there were so many contracts and backroom things going on it strengthened my thought that this was a very 'business' like arrangement. Chi Ling was catered to in many ways on and off screen. I still maintain that her poor acting pulled this drama down. Too bad for her to have such a cast of really good actors who worked their magic as they always do, and too bad that Kimura was the leading man, for her to contend with. She really had a lot to keep up with, and because her Japanese was not good and because she is not an actor, she had to be totally out of place in that project.

The thing that was so strange to me was the fact that there was no script and three directors. Usually even for a short drama the plot would be set and the writers would flesh out the characters and write dialogue before any shooting began. To give actors their script the night before the next days shoot is asking rather a lot even of experienced people. Sure they make changes in dialogue as they are working daily but this ws an unusual event it seems to me.
I would think that three writers and one director would have been more successful and going through the plots and the script ahead of time with the cast should have been the motivation for a good rapport.Of course this was a short drama.
If this had been a film then the working methods would have been totally different.

I wondered a few times how the directors got along and how they divided up the episodes they would take. It wasn't like a sageuk where there would be a special director for martial arts scenes and battles.

Well this drama was very confused as to the way the plot was worked out. I liked Kimura and the way he played his role. I liked Maemi and the way she took her role. I thought Kitagawa was really just right in her role. She should have had more scenes. Kazami also should have been a more exposed character. He is a good actor and very attractive but he was in a major role with minor buildup.
There were many lovely moments in thsi drama especially between Ren and Maemi. Many of the scenes withYuzuki were sweet and funny and she played them with finesse.
However, these were seperate m0ments and the drama as a whole did not have a flowing continuum for me.
This is just my opinion so don't stone me. I still watched it to the end and will probably watch it again in order to see what I must have missed without the subs.

Peggy

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Post by trasuachieumua » Jul 11th, '10, 03:35

Ah, can everyone tell me about the details of the last 3 ep XD?
who is the director and what're their names?

I like the director of this drama, he is also the director of Sora (One million stars falling from the sky - gomen I can remember the full Japanese name of it althought I like it very much) ne?

:P

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Post by Peggy » Jul 11th, '10, 03:48

There were three directors as I mentioned in my post above. I only know there was Ishii and I know Kimura was very pleased to see him I don't know if this is Katsuhito Ishii.
There is another avant garde director named Sogo Iishii. (I tend to the first named one.)

One Million Stars director was Namae ??

Peg

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Post by seirin » Jul 11th, '10, 04:45

Peggy wrote: To give actors their script the night before the next days shoot is asking rather a lot even of experienced people.
That's not surprising really. Many actors get the script the day before sometimes and they just have to make due with it and it could be a thick booklet full of lines.

As for many directors for one drama. That's not surprising either. Some dramas are like that.

But about LCL being picked, well..there may be some strings pulled I think.

I thought the actors for short pants and Rina acted better than LCL ^^; and they're minor characters.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 05:07

seirin wrote:[ At least his eyes can project energy. .
Wow, that's scary!
Image
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 11th, '10, 05:12

I just re-watched the final episode and have some questions:
At Maemi san's studio, (earlier in the episode), she told Rensuke that she'll have this solo exhibition and she'll need the whole space, kinda kicking him out, why?

Also, Rensuke was telling Maemi "I know i've acted spoiled, and i've dependent on you, not knowing that I've hurt you". So does that mean that he knew she loved him?
She kept saying "wakatteru", trying to stop him from explaining to her?

I asked this because towards the end when Maemi confess to him, he looked surprised and moved by that, shouldn't he know that she loves her already?

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 05:14

fayewolf wrote:I just re-watched the final episode and have some questions:
At Maemi san's studio, (earlier in the episode), she told Rensuke that she'll have this solo exhibition and she'll need the whole space, kinda kicking him out, why?
because shes thinks he's going to get back together with XM
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Post by fayewolf » Jul 11th, '10, 05:21

20centuryboy wrote:
fayewolf wrote:I just re-watched the final episode and have some questions:
At Maemi san's studio, (earlier in the episode), she told Rensuke that she'll have this solo exhibition and she'll need the whole space, kinda kicking him out, why?
because shes thinks he's going to get back together with XM
I would think if that's the case, she would want him to continue to stay at her place?

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Post by el_lady » Jul 11th, '10, 05:30

I'm a little disappointed for the ending. I mean I'm glad that Ren and Maemi got together but I feel like everything was a rush w/ everyone's character. I still don't understand why Kazami has to go behind Ren's back and betray him. Kazami's storyline was not clear and the writer should of had write more childhood scenes of Ren and Maemi together to make viewers know of what they were like when they were little. In my opinion, I feel that the writer should of have spend less on the Regolith's plot line and instead focus on everyone's character development because I don't see a lot of chemistry btw all of them. Overall, I love the ost.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 05:31

SHe's the kind of girl to root for other people rather than to put herself first. That's the typical romantic character we can see in many japanese dramas. Obviously she thinks Ren sees her as a friend more than a potential lover.

In love, the more you wait, the more it becomes difficult to express your feelings, that's why Ren has to clearly express it all in the end, and even then she's still clumsy.
el_lady wrote:I still don't understand why Kazami has to go behind Ren's back and betray him. Kazami's storyline was not clear
Kazami Admire the successful businessman in Ren. That's the thing Ren is less proud of. Ren did many wrong things just to make his company competitive. Kazami put the company back on the track. He may have betrayed Ren but he did it for the good and because he thought Ren was wrong ( like everybody else: the shanghai factory, etc...). In the last episod we can see that Kazami is more fair as a director than Ren who acted like a spoiled as****e.
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Post by seirin » Jul 11th, '10, 05:45

20centuryboy wrote:
seirin wrote:[ At least his eyes can project energy. .
Wow, that's scary!
The first things I look at from actors is how they use eye expressions. Then facial expressions. Then body language. I think Tacky has proven himself from way back when he did Majo no Jouken. I thought his eye acting was pretty good in Orthros even if that wasn't the best written drama. He looked ugly dressing up as a woman in Yukinojo Henge but his movements were fairly feminine. I think he also did well as Yoshitsune although the drama bored the crap out of me.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 05:54

On that point I will agree, Tacky is quite feminine, I've heard he's gay if I remember well. His eyes might be good, I don't know, in fact I blacklisted any drama he played in after watching 6 or 7. Well he won't win the best acting award, nor Kimutaku or Shinohara or Matsuda Shota will. there is fantastic actors in japanese dramas but most of the time they're not idols. :wink:
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by caramelchampagne » Jul 11th, '10, 06:29

just finished watching the last epi i really liked it sooooooooooooo much but i didn't even guessed he gonna marry maemi at all i thought he gonna mari xiu mei coz i felt he really loved her and he gonna go after her but also i felt happy he married maemi coz she really was devoted to him even she wasn't selfish at all she always encouraging him and supporting himshe never cared about herself more than caring about him looooooooooool but really i like the series for lin chi i think they could have chossed another chines actor to be more pro specially kimura and shinohara are so pro
guys هi need help here can any one tell me from where i can load asian movies rather than asiantorrent.com coz they closed thier registred new member
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Post by seirin » Jul 11th, '10, 06:48

20centuryboy wrote:On that point I will agree, Tacky is quite feminine, I've heard he's gay if I remember well. His eyes might be good, I don't know, in fact I blacklisted any drama he played in after watching 6 or 7. Well he won't win the best acting award, nor Kimutaku or Shinohara or Matsuda Shota will. there is fantastic actors in japanese dramas but most of the time they're not idols. :wink:
I don't think he's gay, but he's very metro. I am shocked at some of his tastes in fashion. His taste in girls is really weird too. O_o He likes shoulders and pigeon toed females :O Most guys are into busts and asses.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 06:52

seirin wrote: Most guys are into busts and asses.
Most truck drivers, yes. :lol
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Post by Peggy » Jul 11th, '10, 07:03

seirin.

Yes you are absolutely right about there being more than one director for dramas so often. It just seems to me that in an eight episode drama like TnK there would not be a need for so many. What was so different in any of the episodes. Well at least until 7 and 8 when we had more liveliness from Kimura and Shinohara. Those two episodes were quite different in their feeling so I guess that was a different director.

I would like to see this story filled out and made into a film and much more character background. I think it would be very interesting to see the earlier lives. It's OK to let the audience use their imagination but this drama was lacking in so many places where we needed a little more detail. It would be nice to know when this idea occurred to whoever...and then how long it took to get to the first shoot. It seemed that it was done when they could get the actors in between commercials and in Kimura's case when he was not doing all the things for the SMAP shows. Shinohara didn't even want to do the drama at first ! ! !

The discussions have been as interesting as the drama....

Peg

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Post by inthecoldbreeze » Jul 11th, '10, 07:17

el_lady wrote:I'm a little disappointed for the ending. I mean I'm glad that Ren and Maemi got together but I feel like everything was a rush w/ everyone's character. I still don't understand why Kazami has to go behind Ren's back and betray him. Kazami's storyline was not clear and the writer should of had write more childhood scenes of Ren and Maemi together to make viewers know of what they were like when they were little. In my opinion, I feel that the writer should of have spend less on the Regolith's plot line and instead focus on everyone's character development because I don't see a lot of chemistry btw all of them. Overall, I love the ost.
totally agree with this. and i think kitagawa's character could have been written off without affecting the plot. she was a deux ex. i do wish that they would have done more about the characters' backgrounds. prequel anyone?

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Post by seirin » Jul 11th, '10, 07:23

inthecoldbreeze wrote: totally agree with this. and i think kitagawa's character could have been written off without affecting the plot. she was a deux ex. i do wish that they would have done more about the characters' backgrounds. prequel anyone?
I think Kitagawa's character was there to indicate the different type of love that exists. friendship, lovers (xiumei from lovers to friendship, maemi from friendship to lovers) and kinship (yuzuki).

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 07:40

seirin wrote:
I think Kitagawa's character was there to indicate the different type of love that exists. friendship, lovers (xiumei from lovers to friendship, maemi from friendship to lovers) and kinship (yuzuki).
I think you're right. Ren knows Yuzu since she's a child. He also Knows Maemi for a long time but it grows into something else. Not with Yuzu. XM is the crush. He falls mostly for her image. With Maemi, it's something that growed little by little and it's beyond the look.

In the end XM and Yuzu represent the life he wants to forget ( the cynical businessman going out with fashion models) and Maemi represent what he always wanted to be: a designer/craftman who work with his hands.

That's some typical japanese spirit.

By the way Kitagawa got fat, isn't she? I've never thought she was very pretty but she's turning into something strange . Or is it here hairdo?
Last edited by 20centuryboy on Jul 11th, '10, 07:56, edited 3 times in total.
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by Ireth » Jul 11th, '10, 07:42

I just finished the last episode and I must say I love the ending, it's so cute :) Though I felt really bad for Yuzuki...
I think they could have developed the characters more. Like Rensuke, who seemed to be indifferent to everything throughout each episode, and Xiu Mei, who was too sickly-sweet for words.

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 11th, '10, 08:17

seirin wrote:
inthecoldbreeze wrote: totally agree with this. and i think kitagawa's character could have been written off without affecting the plot. she was a deux ex. i do wish that they would have done more about the characters' backgrounds. prequel anyone?
I think Kitagawa's character was there to indicate the different type of love that exists. friendship, lovers (xiumei from lovers to friendship, maemi from friendship to lovers) and kinship (yuzuki).
Agree with seirin. It really demonstrated the three girls who love Ren so much, all in their own way.

At the end, Yuzuki said to Ren
私後悔してないよ
あなた好きだったこと,
あなたを追いかけできかことを
だから
葉月さんも、後悔しないで
あなたが 誰選んでもう
私だけは、ずっとあなたの味方でいてあげる
妹になってあげるよ
she then went home and weep in bed.... so sad.

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Post by thorned_sakura » Jul 11th, '10, 08:23

who wants a prequel? i know i do...

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jul 11th, '10, 08:37

thorned_sakura wrote:who wants a prequel? i know i do...
Considering the money lost with this drama, I hope you're a strong believer. The TV channel and the crew will probably try to forget this bad experience as fast as they can.
妹になってあげるよ
修道女になってあげるよ
would have been more funny.
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by lollercopter » Jul 11th, '10, 10:05

Issy wrote:
lollercopter wrote:
Peggy wrote:I will always be sure that the poor ratings are on the shoulders of Lin Chi Ling and the producers who gave her so much screen time.
She's a main character, of course she has a lot of screen time. But why is it her fault that the show had relatively low ratings?
maybe because of her poor acting? :whistling:
Her acting has seemed perfectly fine to me.
20centuryboy wrote:By the way Kitagawa got fat, isn't she? I've never thought she was very pretty but she's turning into something strange . Or is it here hairdo?
I think you need to revise your definition of fat.

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 11th, '10, 10:57

lollercopter wrote:
Issy wrote:
lollercopter wrote: She's a main character, of course she has a lot of screen time. But why is it her fault that the show had relatively low ratings?
maybe because of her poor acting? :whistling:
Her acting has seemed perfectly fine to me.
20centuryboy wrote:By the way Kitagawa got fat, isn't she? I've never thought she was very pretty but she's turning into something strange . Or is it here hairdo?
I think you need to revise your definition of fat.
lol... well, LCL's acting is not good for sure, but may not be as bad as how we describe her here. But it is indeed alot of factors together, she has a bit of "out dated look", her japanese and her voice is very irritating, but I do like her last scene
stopping rensuke from breaking up with her with "arigatou", and while she speak she had tears just rolled off her eyes", i thought that was pretty good. Of course does not compare to the tears of Maemi san or Yuzuki's. Those HURTs.

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Post by sinus » Jul 12th, '10, 00:42

I've only watched 4 episodes so far, and just wanted to come here and rage a bit about how much Maemi irritates me :D I don't know if it's Shinohara Ryoko's acting or what (haven't seen any other dramas she's been in) but god that character irks me to no end. Like, who behaves and TALKS like that? It's so exaggerating that it's not even funny. Those drawn-out vowels and that artificial use of speech in every fricking discussion - or even in a 2-line dialogue. And don't let me get even started on her facial expressions, or her small factitious "jumps" in normal walk, or her stupid pseudo-energetic behaviour (which, as a way of acting, is so used - especially among amateurs). And just everything about her is so... argh!

Phew. Thank you. Now I can go back to watching this otherwise nice dorama. Sorry :salut:

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Post by Peggy » Jul 12th, '10, 00:48

sinus.

:lol :lol It does feel so good to get something off your chest doesn't it?? 8)

Peg :-)

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Post by notoriousnoona » Jul 12th, '10, 07:57

trasuachieumua wrote:notoriousnoona: Love your list XD Please say about it XD I want to read it XD


------------
LOL :lol Thank you. In the end, I loved this drama. Not my fav nor the best Kimura-san drama but Ren was kinda great. And I agree with you that the drama turned out to be much better than I was anticipating.

To answer someone's question...
Maemi kicked Ren out to push him back to XM, which she literally does in the latter half of the of the finale. I thought it was a little harsh but she does it for him and most importantly for herself. I truly felt that Maemi grew alot throughout this drama. Though it always seemed like everything she did was for Ren, that wasn't always the case, her motives for kicking him out are similar to her encouraging him to go to the airport and confesses. She did that to finally get it over with. To no longer have the "half-a**" relationship Yuzuki refers to. She doesn't do it to keep him or make him choose her. She goes for a clean break of their tie of helper/helpee, giving him no room to use his "obligation" to and comfort with her as a crutch to stay away from XM. She was letting him know that everything she did doesn't need to be repaid.The subtext of her confession mirrors he and Yuzuki's conversation after XM's visit. When the car revs outside she believes that's the end. I don't think she cries because she wanted to stop him but more the realization that he's gone, for real this time. She mourns. It was really beautiful. I loved it!
Also when she cuts him off in that same scene(where she boots him out), I'm not sure "if" she really does know what he's about to say. To me this is something that I think is a little indication that Maemi assumes things because she does know him so well(which happens often in reality). And could have some baring on the status of there current relationship till this point. However, I'm not sure he was saying that he knew of her feelings. I think he was just trying to articulate his. Unfortunately, I believe Maemi always believed that he was just grateful and indebted to her so she didn't need him to bear his soul and listen to words it would be hard for him to say and her to hear.
Now to my list. I guess I'll do the last one first?
Meatless pork bowls: When you first watch the last scene, it seems like Maemi is just rambling, however in ep 7 she and Ren eat pork bowls and Ren complains about the ratio of kimchi to pork and how there is never any in there.
In a pork bowl, the meat is the best part, so Ren is rightly irritated but Maemi says its good, satisfied with the experience and the memories. In the car, Maemi's dream portrays a similar scenario: Shanghai, no meat, all kimichi. He smirks, she doses and murmurs "you and me(both of us)...." then smiles and says "meat." This makes no sense to Ren but to the audience it means everything. It's their story.
The entire show was summed up in that dream, almost like what we saw for the last 7 1/2 eps was a dream. Ren and Maemi have always been hungry for the best part of life, the meat, the meaning. Ren never satisfied, Maemi enjoying what comes. Like in their fancy restaurant in Shanghai, XM and Hazami should have had/been the meat they both were looking for. Different location, shiny and expensive but ultimately, nothing more than kimchi (something good, tasty, hot) but not the heart of the meal; the reason for the purchase. Maemi realizes, she and Ren are the meat;he is hers, she is his.They are the best part of each other's lives, the base, what they were searching for.
One could say that this is trivializing "life" but actually, I have found that life is pretty simple, pretty basic. As humans, we are all gobbling down life, trying to get to the best part, the meat, the purpose. There is always tons of kimichi, like work and hobbies; the good, enjoyable and spicy things. But the meat, is always sparse, like love, trust, and long lasting loyal relationships. Just like a pork bowl, when the meat isn't there we keep scarfing, unsatisfied cause we know it should be there. In Tsuki no Koibito, the meat was love but not just romantic which again is more realistic. Ren and Maemi found stability, companionship, joy, satisfaction, relentless commitment, confidence and finally a romantic loving partnership at the bottom of their bowls.
trasuachieumua
Hope you enjoyed. And honestly, I probably knocked off two from the list instead of just one. :thumright:

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 12th, '10, 08:10

notoriousnoona wrote:
trasuachieumua wrote:notoriousnoona: Love your list XD Please say about it XD I want to read it XD


------------
LOL :lol Thank you. In the end, I loved this drama. Not my fav nor the best Kimura-san drama but Ren was kinda great. And I agree with you that the drama turned out to be much better than I was anticipating.

To answer someone's question...
Maemi kicked Ren out to push him back to XM, which she literally does in the latter half of the of the finale. I thought it was a little harsh but she does it for him and most importantly for herself. I truly felt that Maemi grew alot throughout this drama. Though it always seemed like everything she did was for Ren, that wasn't always the case, her motives for kicking him out are similar to her encouraging him to go to the airport and confesses. She did that to finally get it over with. To no longer have the "half-a**" relationship Yuzuki refers to. She doesn't do it to keep him or make him choose her. She goes for a clean break of their tie of helper/helpee, giving him no room to use his "obligation" to and comfort with her as a crutch to stay away from XM. She was letting him know that everything she did doesn't need to be repaid.The subtext of her confession mirrors he and Yuzuki's conversation after XM's visit. When the car revs outside she believes that's the end. I don't think she cries because she wanted to stop him but more the realization that he's gone, for real this time. She mourns. It was really beautiful. I loved it!
Also when she cuts him off in that same scene(where she boots him out), I'm not sure "if" she really does know what he's about to say. To me this is something that I think is a little indication that Maemi assumes things because she does know him so well(which happens often in reality). And could have some baring on the status of there current relationship till this point. However, I'm not sure he was saying that he knew of her feelings. I think he was just trying to articulate his. Unfortunately, I believe Maemi always believed that he was just grateful and indebted to her so she didn't need him to bear his soul and listen to words it would be hard for him to say and her to hear.
Now to my list. I guess I'll do the last one first?
Meatless pork bowls: When you first watch the last scene, it seems like Maemi is just rambling, however in ep 7 she and Ren eat pork bowls and Ren complains about the ratio of kimchi to pork and how there is never any in there.
In a pork bowl, the meat is the best part, so Ren is rightly irritated but Maemi says its good, satisfied with the experience and the memories. In the car, Maemi's dream portrays a similar scenario: Shanghai, no meat, all kimichi. He smirks, she doses and murmurs "you and me(both of us)...." then smiles and says "meat." This makes no sense to Ren but to the audience it means everything. It's their story.
The entire show was summed up in that dream, almost like what we saw for the last 7 1/2 eps was a dream. Ren and Maemi have always been hungry for the best part of life, the meat, the meaning. Ren never satisfied, Maemi enjoying what comes. Like in their fancy restaurant in Shanghai, XM and Hazami should have had/been the meat they both were looking for. Different location, shiny and expensive but ultimately, nothing more than kimchi (something good, tasty, hot) but not the heart of the meal; the reason for the purchase. Maemi realizes, she and Ren are the meat;he is hers, she is his.They are the best part of each other's lives, the base, what they were searching for.
One could say that this is trivializing "life" but actually, I have found that life is pretty simple, pretty basic. As humans, we are all gobbling down life, trying to get to the best part, the meat, the purpose. There is always tons of kimichi, like work and hobbies; the good, enjoyable and spicy things. But the meat, is always sparse, like love, trust, and long lasting loyal relationships. Just like a pork bowl, when the meat isn't there we keep scarfing, unsatisfied cause we know it should be there. In Tsuki no Koibito, the meat was love but not just romantic which again is more realistic. Ren and Maemi found stability, companionship, joy, satisfaction, relentless commitment, confidence and finally a romantic loving partnership at the bottom of their bowls.
trasuachieumua
Hope you enjoyed. And honestly, I probably knocked off two from the list instead of just one. :thumright:
You wrote the best analysis ever!! Thank you for answering my questions!! I had a hard time liking this drama in the middle because of LCL, but I really enjoyed the last 2 episodes!!

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Post by stolenxkisses » Jul 12th, '10, 10:38

cya18 wrote: So, you can watch her in Anego ( very very recommended!, she carries this drama alone), , Unfair , Mukodono and Mukodono 2003.
Wow! I watched Anego on this suggestion, and I really, really liked it! Halfway through I forgot who I was watching, just so immersed in her character! Thanks for the recommendation :)

Though I should add that the English subs for the show are really terrible. It's amazing that it's so enjoyable despite the confusingly poor translation. I wonder if anyone is ever going to re-sub it.
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Post by MisS Lonliah » Jul 12th, '10, 13:27

notoriousnoona wrote: Now to my list. I guess I'll do the last one first?
Meatless pork bowls: When you first watch the last scene, it seems like Maemi is just rambling, however in ep 7 she and Ren eat pork bowls and Ren complains about the ratio of kimchi to pork and how there is never any in there.
In a pork bowl, the meat is the best part, so Ren is rightly irritated but Maemi says its good, satisfied with the experience and the memories. In the car, Maemi's dream portrays a similar scenario: Shanghai, no meat, all kimichi. He smirks, she doses and murmurs "you and me(both of us)...." then smiles and says "meat." This makes no sense to Ren but to the audience it means everything. It's their story.
The entire show was summed up in that dream, almost like what we saw for the last 7 1/2 eps was a dream. Ren and Maemi have always been hungry for the best part of life, the meat, the meaning. Ren never satisfied, Maemi enjoying what comes. Like in their fancy restaurant in Shanghai, XM and Hazami should have had/been the meat they both were looking for. Different location, shiny and expensive but ultimately, nothing more than kimchi (something good, tasty, hot) but not the heart of the meal; the reason for the purchase. Maemi realizes, she and Ren are the meat;he is hers, she is his.They are the best part of each other's lives, the base, what they were searching for.
One could say that this is trivializing "life" but actually, I have found that life is pretty simple, pretty basic. As humans, we are all gobbling down life, trying to get to the best part, the meat, the purpose. There is always tons of kimichi, like work and hobbies; the good, enjoyable and spicy things. But the meat, is always sparse, like love, trust, and long lasting loyal relationships. Just like a pork bowl, when the meat isn't there we keep scarfing, unsatisfied cause we know it should be there. In Tsuki no Koibito, the meat was love but not just romantic which again is more realistic. Ren and Maemi found stability, companionship, joy, satisfaction, relentless commitment, confidence and finally a romantic loving partnership at the bottom of their bowls.
wow.. that was PERFECT! I enjoyed reading your words.. thanks a lot! :-)
Last edited by MisS Lonliah on Jul 12th, '10, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by trasuachieumua » Jul 12th, '10, 14:38

notoriousnoona:

How can I say that I love your analyses so much XD?
(forgive me because my English is not good ^^)

Please say about the others, I am waiting to read it :wub:
(Maybe I will become your fan XD)

Ah, I have something to discuss too.
- The scene that Ren gave the chair to Yuzu, in the chair was a descent moon right?
Maybe it means that Yuzu is like Ren, sometimes they forget the precious things in their life, and also didn't see what is important. Then, Yuzu came to her father (president Ohnuki), said to him: "Dad, I'm sorry." and promised that she will do her best.

It made more sense about the way to fill up our lives, as the way to see the full moon.

- The scene that Xiu Mei wrote in the glass: "Rensuke, I love you." but it quickly disappear and she cried.
I felt very touching although I don't like her. And I think this detail symbolize the relationship between Ren and Xiu Mei. Their love is the same of it. First, it was very easy to write and to see but then it got over quickly. And with the two of them, they couldn't see it anymore.

But with Maemi it was different. She saw it although Ren and Xiu Mei didn't. And at that moment she realized that if she didn't told Ren her feeling she would never have a chance to do it. So she confessed to him.


Hehe, my english is bad, so I want to comment many things but I can't :P So, please forgive me if I make mistake in my post :P

notoriousnoona, if you weren't find it unpleasant :P please tell me something about this scenes:

- Yuzu said to Ren "It smells like her here. Let's open the window." and he told her "Yuzu. Please don't open it. Just leave it as it is." why Ren said that?

- At the airport, when Xiu Mei told him "So, you bastard, go back." then she :salut: (sorry I don't know what it's called :P ). Ren :salut: to her too, but she went and he was confused. Maybe it means something :P

Finally, thanks you very much :wub: I love your post more than I can say (embarassed :wub: ).

fayewolf: sorry, I did it XD
Last edited by trasuachieumua on Jul 13th, '10, 07:27, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by yunaling » Jul 12th, '10, 15:28

I've actually been a lurker of this discussion thread for some time since the early episodes, and enjoyed reading. I thought I should share some of my thoughts towards Tsuki no Koibito too.

First of all...
notoriousnoona wrote:Meatless pork bowls: When you first watch the last scene, it seems like Maemi is just rambling, however in ep 7 she and Ren eat pork bowls and Ren complains about the ratio of kimchi to pork and how there is never any in there.
In a pork bowl, the meat is the best part, so Ren is rightly irritated but Maemi says its good, satisfied with the experience and the memories. In the car, Maemi's dream portrays a similar scenario: Shanghai, no meat, all kimichi. He smirks, she doses and murmurs "you and me(both of us)...." then smiles and says "meat." This makes no sense to Ren but to the audience it means everything. It's their story.
The entire show was summed up in that dream, almost like what we saw for the last 7 1/2 eps was a dream. Ren and Maemi have always been hungry for the best part of life, the meat, the meaning. Ren never satisfied, Maemi enjoying what comes. Like in their fancy restaurant in Shanghai, XM and Hazami should have had/been the meat they both were looking for. Different location, shiny and expensive but ultimately, nothing more than kimchi (something good, tasty, hot) but not the heart of the meal; the reason for the purchase. Maemi realizes, she and Ren are the meat;he is hers, she is his.They are the best part of each other's lives, the base, what they were searching for.
One could say that this is trivializing "life" but actually, I have found that life is pretty simple, pretty basic. As humans, we are all gobbling down life, trying to get to the best part, the meat, the purpose. There is always tons of kimichi, like work and hobbies; the good, enjoyable and spicy things. But the meat, is always sparse, like love, trust, and long lasting loyal relationships. Just like a pork bowl, when the meat isn't there we keep scarfing, unsatisfied cause we know it should be there. In Tsuki no Koibito, the meat was love but not just romantic which again is more realistic. Ren and Maemi found stability, companionship, joy, satisfaction, relentless commitment, confidence and finally a romantic loving partnership at the bottom of their bowls.
Thank you for your analysis of the pork bowls! I thought it wasn't satisfying to end the show with a dialogue like that. I could understand the drive relating to the start of ep 1 where Kazami was the one sitting in Rensuke's car. Kazami being Rensuke's reliable assistant in Regolith, was probably the most important person in the focus in his life which was his business. For now the seat is occupied by Maemi in a wedding dress pretty much summarises Rensuke's change in his life goals.

Anyway a little trivia regarding the ending scene, the drive wasn't in the script but was suggested by Kimura himself who thought it'd be nice to end it with a drive like how the drama started. And the director decided to do it. :D (read this from Kimura's radio show where he answered some questions regarding the last episode)

I think I haven't come across a love drama that triggered so much discussion, thoughts, theories, questions for some time. I appreciate the relationship between the 3 women and Rensuke, how it explored possiblities and kept us guessing even till the last episode. It was a somewhat fresh experience from most of the "love" genre dramas that I've watched so far, far more mature than the usual "one true pairing"-esque dramas that's been around. I kept asking myself questions after each episode, why is Rensuke acting like this, what's gona happen next? But I'm glad at how the series ended, each woman had a good closure with Rensuke.

(Perhaps the only thing that bugs me's how come Regolith still won the project when it was very clear that Rensuke's moon chair concept was better and everyone even clapped for Rensuke. I didn't quite get this.)

Other than the characters, I am in love with the beautiful sets, the title screen, references to the moon, the theme song, the soundtrack and the design concepts proposed in the show. The production crew did a great job in details too, little things like the magazine/newspaper reports, the love in Regolith ad, posters. I think these little things add a lot of value to make a good drama even more enjoyable. :thumleft:

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Post by Peggy » Jul 12th, '10, 17:28

The last few posts have been so satisfying. People saw more in the smaller details than I had time to ponder on. I really liked the way they had the driving car in the first and last scenes and it does seem like a Kimura kind of thing to repeat it in the end. I am sure that his hat was his idea also. Homage to Johnny Depp.... 8)

I liked the drama most of the time. I still think it was unbalanced at the beginning with too much Xui Mei. Even if you try to relate it to a real life situation, a busy CEO would not pop off to spend so much time with the model of his company. Yes he would be seeing her if he was involved that way, but he would never set business aside. Especially Rensuke who was the coldest hard boss you could imagine.

From a distance now, I think the drama will grow in popularity. They should not have played up the 'love/romance' in the pre publicity. We were expecting something similar to the older dramas. this is not that Kimura and it takes a little time to realise he is more interested in playing a role to his own age and his own interests these days. It all makes sense in the end.

I intend to re watch at a faster pace to keep the basic meanings flowing.Once a week unsubbed and then waiting for a hardsub tends to make the episodes fade a little.

Peg

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 12th, '10, 18:12

trasuachieumua wrote:notoriousnoona:

How can I say that I love your analyses so much XD?
(forgive me because my English is not good ^^)

Please say about the others, I'll wait to read it :wub:
(Maybe I will become your fan XD)

Ah,I have something to discuss too.

- The scene that Ren gave the chair to Yuzu, in the chair was a descent moon right?
Maybe it means that Yuzu like Ren, sometimes they forget the precious things in their life, and also didn't see what is important. Then, Yuzu came to her father (president Ohnuki), said to him: "Dad, I'm sorry." and promise that she will do her best.

It make more sense about the way to fill up our lives, as the way to see the full moon.

- The scene that Xiu Mei wrote in the glass: "Rensuke, I love you." but it quickly disappear and she cried.
I feel very touching although I don't like her. And I feel this detail symbolize the relationship between Ren and Xiu Mei. Their love is the same of it. First, it was very easy to write and to see but then it get over quickly. And with the two of them, they can't see it anymore.

But with Maemi it was different. She saw it although Ren and Xiu Mei didn't. And at that moment she realize that if she didn't told Ren her feeling she would never have a chance to do it. So she confessed to him.


Hehe, my english is bad, so I want to comment many things but I can't :P So, please forgive me if I make mistake in my post :P

notoriousnoona, if you weren't find it unpleasant :P please tell me something about that scenes:

- Yuzu said to Ren "It smells like her here. Let's open the window." and he told her "Yuzu. Please don't open it. Just leave it as it is." why Ren said that?

- At the airport, when Xiu Mei told him "So, you bastard, go back." then she :salut: (sorry I don't know what it's called :P ). Ren :salut: to her too, but she went and he was confused. Maybe it means something :P


Finally, thanks you very much :wub: I love your post more than I can say (embarassed :wub: ).
You may want to use a spoiler...
Anyways,
Ren wanted to cherish Xiu Mei's smell a little longer, that's why he didn't want Yuzuki to open the window, since the smell will be gone quicker, he wanted it to linger longer to remember Xiu Mei Longer"

I didnt think that Ren was confused, but he was probably a bit surprised that she would just go like that. I was surprised that she didn't even hug him.....

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Post by Peggy » Jul 12th, '10, 19:18

I think this may be a spoiler. Yes I do think it is.



I was not surprised that XM took off like that
If you remember, when she decided to take the suggestion from Kazami to visit Ren, she arrived with Ming in the rain. Her first sight of Ren was with Maemi and they were both half dressed. They got caught in the rain and were so wet. However, XM didn't know that so it would be a shock for her to see them. She immediately went into her sweet love mode and even wrote 'Ren I love you' on the window and made sure that Ren heard what she said and saw the writing. However, when she grabbed Ren from the back and hugged him, he did not make a move at all. Just stood there. She realised her little act was not getting any result. She left. When she saw Ren at the airport he wanted to say goodbye and just let her go. she knew he would not stop her so she did not go any further to try and keep him. Her pride would not let her make any further approach, and I think that is why she just said Goodbye, and used the 'you bastard' phrase she learned from the old man in Shanghai. This would set everything back to the beginning and let Ren know she was really parting with him.
Bye Bye XM and Ren was not about to stop her. He may have wanted her, but he was not truly in love with her and he recognised that. He wanted to go back to Maemi pronto. And he did. And he kissed her :cheers: ......And he married her :thumright: ..... The end of the beginning and the beginning of the new Ren. 8)

Peg

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Jul 12th, '10, 22:01

yunaling wrote: Anyway a little trivia regarding the ending scene, the drive wasn't in the script but was suggested by Kimura himself who thought it'd be nice to end it with a drive like how the drama started. And the director decided to do it. :D (read this from Kimura's radio show where he answered some questions regarding the last episode)
it was nice indeed!

Thanks yunaling! I like how I'm discovering new facts and ideas from people day after day. This again proves that this drama was more than just a "Getsu 9" drama. It had lots of hidden details here and there. I'm not planning to re-watch it again, but I think the best way to watch such a drama is watching the episodes on a row. I could now understand why some of the Japanese viewers didn't watch it/like it. You can't understand why did this happen and why did this person do that if you're not following all the little details. While mother for example got some positive reviews because you can understand what is happening on the episode even if you didn't watch the previous one!

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Post by Peggy » Jul 12th, '10, 23:22

I just had an email about this drama from my dear friend Margarette. I would like to quote one paragraph which I think is really eye opening. It is really spot on.

Ren-Maemi characters would have been blah so-so if not for the excellent portrayal of the two actors. It reminds me of the Katherine Hepburn-Spencer Tracy tandem. So good at repartee and their body language....boy, it spoke volumes.



I do remember the films that Hepburn-Tracy made and they were always antagonists even when they were characters who loved one another. Witty and funny as well.

Peggy
Last edited by Peggy on Jul 13th, '10, 06:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peggy » Jul 13th, '10, 06:44

Once more unto the brink........

Have finally watched all the episodes with English subs.

I have changed my mind more than once about this story. The beginning was so unbalanced. Too much emphasis on the Shanghai side of things and especially too much of the XM character. If they wanted so much to be shown of this role they really should have chosen a seasoned actress. It was quite unfair to put it on the shoulders of Chi Ling. She has had many people dislike her acting and her voice and I am among them. She would have been better in a smaller role.

I loved how Kitagawa played her role as the girl who was obsessed with Ren. She did love him dearly and was not about to give up too easily. Her acting was just right in that role and I liked her scenes with Kimura. Very natural and he seemed to blend in so well being her 'older brother'. She was never mean or vindictive even tho she knew that Ren was not in love with her.

I came to the conclusion that this really finally was a love story but not what we expected. I think the story was totally about Ren and Maemi and how they came together from days in college. They were always together working and arguing all those years. This was a partnership and they did not know they loved one another so deeply. Ren relied on Maemi as the one person he knew would tell him the truth. She was never afraid to express her opinion and if she did not like what he was doing, she would let him know in words or actions. The fact that they argued so much and still remained close was the key to the whole drama.

The change came once XM came on the scene. Ren was not in love with her but he wanted her for the Regolith model job. She then realised that here was the man who could save her from her Shanghai difficulties. She took advantage of this once Kazami let her know how those difficulties were arranged by Ren. From then on she did not trust him, but she also felt this strong attraction for him and that in itself would draw Ren closer to her. It obviously did not feel quite right with Ren but he was unable to break away from XM. In the meantime Maemi was seeing how all this was happening. She at first thought she should help Ren and SM. How could she do that!!!!!!! Just because she wanted Ren to be happy. That was never going to happen. The two were lives apart and Ren knew it. His comfort zone was anywhere with Maemi and he began to feel this even tho it did not make him want to do anything about it.
Their physical proximity during the time they were out in the boondocks making furniture for the town brought them closer and opened his eyes. When XM came back it was inevitable that he would see the difference between her and Maemi. He already knew then that he would say goodbye to XM and Maemi would be his life partner.
They would be together and fight together and argue and love one another with a truly deep love ever afterwards. Sense of humour floating throughout for them.
A truly adult romance.

Yes I liked the ending but I honestly would not be surprised if Kimura did not enjoy this whole experience, despite his praise for the crew at times. Not if he had a chance to do a taiga.

Ryomaden has rating of over 20% for every episode and this is what Moon Lovers was up against.

Peggy

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Post by Ireth » Jul 13th, '10, 09:31

I really loved all your analysis and discussions, you guys pay great attention to the small details :) I think all the town people liked Rensuke's chair/speech better than Regolith's, but ultimately they weren't the decision makers. And the decision makers decided that a big-name company and a unique looking chair was what they needed. (Even though it looks uncomfortable to sit on...)

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Post by canavial » Jul 13th, '10, 10:38

Peggy wrote:Not if he had a chance to do a taiga.
Given that his fellow smap member, katori shingo, was given the lead for 2004's nhk taiga, i'm not sure why that offer wouldnt have knocked on his doors by now, given his status.
Unless he probably didn't want to commit the entire year to it, and among other reasons.
Ryomaden has rating of over 20% for every episode and this is what Moon Lovers was up against.
In my opinion, nhk taigas are in a league of its own. I mean they've constantly been hitting high numbers regardless of the ratings from any other dramas. So it's only competitor is itself and to maintain a "high" number rating.
Also, Ryomaden or any taiga for the matter is always aired on Sundays at 8pm local time, whereas Moon Lovers was aired on Mondays.

My humble 2c.

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Post by notoriousnoona » Jul 13th, '10, 12:07

Thank you everyone for your nice comments.
trasuachieumua wrote:notoriousnoona:

How can I say that I love your analyses so much XD?
(forgive me because my English is not good ^^)

Please say about the others, I am waiting to read it :wub:
(Maybe I will become your fan XD)
notoriousnoona, if you weren't find it unpleasant :P please tell me something about this scenes:
- Yuzu said to Ren "It smells like her here. Let's open the window." and he told her "Yuzu. Please don't open it. Just leave it as it is." why Ren said that?

- At the airport, when Xiu Mei told him "So, you bastard, go back." then she :salut: (sorry I don't know what it's called :P ). Ren :salut: to her too, but she went and he was confused. Maybe it means something :P



Finally, thanks you very much :wub: I love your post more than I can say (embarassed :wub: ).
That's really sweet. I can share my thoughts on whatever you want. I really love talking about dramas that I enjoy. Don't hesitate to ask.
Actually, I think that it's common to believe that Ren wanted to bask in XM's scent for a little longer but I looked at that situation a little differently. Ren had sat and worked in that room for a bit before Yuzuki returned. Men are very sensually aware of women, therefore, he knew that the room was scented by XM, but with time it would fade. That's what he wanted. When Yuzuki came in the room, she notices and suggests opening the window, I believe to lighten the burdened of XM's visit on Ren's memory. [This is most likely true because one thing that remained constant about Yuzuki was her sensitivity to Ren. She always wanted to protect him from hurt or pain and I believe that she felt that any encounter with XM did this to him], but this is the opposite of what Ren wanted. He didn’t want to erase XM like she'd never been there. I don’t think that at this point XM had the profound effect on him she once had, however she had been a real, true love moment in his life and he didn't want to pretend like she never existed or he never cared for her. He didn't want to waft her out or push her away(anymore). Opening the window would be like trying to escape reality, as if she had never visited and he didn't want to deny her existence and her affect on his life. Scents fade slowly like memories, and if coupled with a memory, can remain positive if so desired for quite some time. Additionally, Ren has always been practical and it just makes more sense to "leave things as they are." [I'm not sure if the literal Japanese is this phrase but I think it’s even more poignant if it is. Not just in this particular scene but in the overall circumstance of their relationship at the point of this scene.]
Yuzuki’s suggestion was for his own good (in her mind), however his answer prompts her to make her own confession;“No regrets.” Like her, he shouldn’t regret loving someone, no matter who that person was or for how long. I loved the advice because, I'm pretty sure in a way he was feeling very regretful with loving (I use that loosely) XM, hurting Maemi, not dealing with his relationship with both of women sooner, etc. I also believe this encouragement laid some of the groundwork for his emotional response to Maemi's confession later. Ultimately, I don't think that he was holding on to XM, emotionally or physically, which we saw but rather wanted things to run their course naturally; sort of how their relationship had. I say "sort of" because however inevitable the fizzle of their relationship, I truly believe they had a bit of help. If not for Kazami (and XM's idiocy), they probably would have dated a minute or two longer. Their relationship was doomed, but Kazami constantly backing Ren in a moral and material corner pulled them apart superficially instead of naturally.
As for the airport scene, though Ren really has been a bit of a bastard to her, he seemed more surprised by her word choice than confused, however if he was confused, the cause was the same. As for her, she appeared a little irritated with herself for having hope in him again. She probably didn’t imagine that if he showed up, it would be to say goodbye. She seemed to really want a future with him. Though I strongly disliked her, her feelings were probably more real and deeper than Ren’s at every point throughout their time together. That is why she wanted to continue to shine where he could see so that wherever he was, he would regret letting her go or rather, be reminded of what he was missing(missed out on). XM’s use of the salute leads me to believe that she was going to take on the task of doing well on the path that she is now to embark on alone (modeling, movies, happiness, a life without him). This is what makes the moment memorable. The salute :salut: and perfectly bright smile were to conceal her pain but highlight the lone tear that swells and drips down her cheek. She loves him and he’s crushed all hope. He came to the airport not to confess but to answer her fears that they have no future (and probably loves someone else). [This scene was the 2nd in this ep where Ms. Chi-ling really shone.] XM calls him a bastard in my opinion not only because he has acted as one since they met but to create some emotional distance between them. I interpret it as her way of acknowledging the truth about him, though she doesn’t really feel that way about him yet. She’s not angry with him but she wishes she were because he’s hurt her and losing him hurts even more.

Salutes are usually used, in my understanding, “dramatically,” as a pseudo departure wave. In most cases, it’s a character’s way of showing that they are fine (when in most cases they aren’t, XM being no different). In reality, salutes are a receipt of a command and sign of respect, militarily. For us regular folk, salutes are used as a parody of this gesture usually in response to being asked to complete a task. This is how XM used it and Ren complied. He didn’t give a command but she was grateful to him for what she had received from him and was assuring him that she would do well in future as well. I don’t believe their feelings were the same in that moment though the gestures were. She was living up to her earlier statement; smiling despite her pain, and he returned her salute with mirrored reflex. But even as he tries to mimic her gesture he doesn’t quite make it because he is acutely aware of the pain she’s hiding and this pains him as well. Plus, being called a bastard by someone you care for who wouldn’t usually use such harsh terms, never sits well, which I’m sure was part of her reason for usage as well.

Just a thought but… I also find it intriguing that the drama throws a wrench in the idea of XM being the sun. For over the last few eps, she seems to be more of a star than the sun.

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Post by bérangère » Jul 13th, '10, 13:17

notoriousnoona wrote:
XM calls him a bastard in my opinion not only because he has acted as one since they met but to create some emotional distance between them.
[...]
Plus, being called a bastard by someone you care for who wouldn’t usually use such harsh terms, never sits well, which I’m sure was part of her reason for usage as well.
OK, I had a hard time understanding where this word "bastard" came from, but I think I got it.
She does not call him "bastard". In Japanese, there is a bunch of words to say "you", with different levels of politeness in them.
Shuu Mei, at the begining of the show and in that finale scene, uses the word "kisama", that is a really non-polite way to refer to somebody. So I supposed it was translated by "you, bastard".
She uses this word because her... *teacher* taught her this word. He speaks a really... peculiar Japanese :mrgreen:
That's just her way to say "you". The fact that it is rude was funny at the begining of the drama. And the fact that she comes back to her old way of talking at the end may have important hidden meanings. But she does not insult him specifically.

I really wondered where that word come from for a pretty long time (^__^)

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Post by Peggy » Jul 13th, '10, 19:39

Actually I think that Kimura was offered the taiga and he turned it down for this drama instead. He was heard to say on the set once..'I should have taken the taiga' ... Must have been a tough shoot that day.

It is only my thought that the taiga might have been the Ryomaden one. Have no knowledge otherwise.
Yes I agree that a taiga usually has a good audience and a good rating. Especially anything about Ryomaden. I am watching it now here in California and it is on NHK three or four time over a weekend. I get the one with English subs, altho I do miss it sometimes. I forget the time it is on. Then I watch it without subs. I think that the cast is great. such experienced actors always make things go smoothly.
At first I could not qute get used to Fukyama Masaharu in this role but he grew on me. Now he is so good that I hate to think of coming to the end.

Eventually I think Moon Lovers will be shown but it will not have English subs. They did not do subs when they put 'Mr. Brain' on NHK here. Kimura looked so fine on the large TV screen.

Peg

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Post by route242 » Jul 13th, '10, 21:20

hello

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Post by route242 » Jul 13th, '10, 21:31

Hello, I have a questionfor all the people on this discussion group.
On the last episode when Maemi confessed to Ren. I saw it on Dramacrazy.net with their Oh Smap Sub group. They subtitle as she said she loves him. Well I decided to watch it again on asianrice.tv and they had their own subtitle and they subtitle as she likes him. I really don't understand why they had two different translations. I would think that she loves him because she worked with him for 15 years. I feel that like is way too light on her feelling toward him. I really don't know if I am too picky because I think this confession was very important part of the story. Like and love is two totally different feeling. I was wondering if someone who understand Japanese can watch it again and tell me what was really said.

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Post by Peggy » Jul 13th, '10, 21:43

I do not speak Japanese but my understanding of the culture is that they rarely say 'aishteru' which is 'I love you'. However, they might say 'sukiyo' which reads as ' I like you' but in the circumstance here Maemi was meaning 'I Love you' and Rensuke would take it that way.

I think it should be translated correctly as 'I love you' in this scene.

Just my opinion and I am sure someone else can correct me if wrong.

Peggy

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Post by joisuramu » Jul 13th, '10, 22:08

Peggy wrote:Actually I think that Kimura was offered the taiga and he turned it down for this drama instead. He was heard to say on the set once..'I should have taken the taiga' ... Must have been a tough shoot that day.
What is taiga, Peggy? And did you hear this from WUS? btw, side question, do you know where I can find his recent WUS English translations? I've been looking around forever...but only found old ones back in 2006...2007...
This can really encourage me to study Japanese again if i couldn't find any...

So I finally had the time to watch ep.8 with subs. I read all the spoilers and comments beforehand so had those in mind while watching it. It was good, i enjoyed it. It helped me to understand some of the confusing scenes...like the moon...and the "meat". But I'm still confused about what's behind Kazami. What was his reasoning behind what he did? So he's not that bad after all? He actually helped XM and Min wholeheartedly? And Rensuke wanted Kijihata to go back to Rogolith is for him to help Kazami? I don't quite get it, someone betrayed and took over your company and can still be ok with it?
Got kinda stuck on that part....

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Post by Peggy » Jul 14th, '10, 00:00

Strictly speaking a Taiga is an historic drama. It is based on true history and the characters are all real people who lived at some time in Japanese history. Usually there would be a small fictional part of the drama simply to flesh out conversations. I personally love these dramas because the history is so fascinating. The most recent one which is ongoing is 'RYOMADEN' which is the life of Ryoma Sakamoto. Fascinating man and you would be interested if you look him up. Very recent history really 1860 thereabouts. When he was working to start a Japanese Navy there was a diplomatic delegation of samurais travellig in US and they had a parade in NYC dressed in their samurai robes. Great fuss was made of them and balls and banquets etc. The youngest one was only 17 and the ladies thought he was just what the doctor ordered to liven things up.

One taiga that I found most interesting was 'Heaven and Earth.' It is not recent but it was so beautiful to look at and the battle scenes were amazing.

I also loved 'Hojo Tokimune' which is probably around somewhere. It was a long drama. Impressive when The Ghengis Khan ships were stopped from invading Japan because of a tremendous storm. Hence 'Divine wind' which remained in history, and modern usage for the pilots who set out to bomb and torpedo the US fleet in the Pacific. (WWII) They did not turn back but became the 'Divine wind' and crashed their bombs and torpedos and then themselvs to do most damage. Total suicide attack. It's mostly the story of the Hojo family . Lots of wonderful actors in this cast.

There are lots of Taigas. Try your browser.

I agree with you about Kazami. I thought ihis character was totally vicious and I can't quite understand how he was lionised by everyone after his betrayal of Rensuke.

However in business today it is not usually the honest upright hardest working person who wins the prize. It is the one with the sharpest knife....! ! !

Oh I also cannot find translation of WUS. Only the old ones that you mentioned. Someone in NYC used to do them but not any more. Too bad.I love Kimura's voice anyway and D/l them when I can altho I don't speak Japanese. Just understand a few words here and there.
Peggy

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Post by canavial » Jul 14th, '10, 02:41

Peggy wrote:Actually I think that Kimura was offered the taiga and he turned it down for this drama instead. He was heard to say on the set once..'I should have taken the taiga' ... Must have been a tough shoot that day.
Hmm... if this is true, think we might see Kimura taking the lead for the taiga in 2012? :scratchchin:
Strictly speaking a Taiga is an historic drama.
To be even more precise, historic dramas or period dramas are known as jidaigeki. And taigas are the 50-episode period dramas made and aired exclusively by NHK every year. :P
(Taken from http://wiki.d-addicts.com/DramaWiki:Glossary_of_terms)

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Post by yanie » Jul 14th, '10, 03:32

Wow! Peggy, where did you watch all those old taiga dramas?? O_O I can only find NHK Taiga broadcast year 2002 and above, available for download or streaming. 2001 and below years are very rare and hard to find. Did you watch them in KIKU English subs?? HOJO TOKIMUNE!!! I want to see it!! (Watanabe Ken and Inagaki Goro were ones of the cast! XD) I didn't know Genghis Khan is featured in Hojo Tokimune, you made me want to watch it even more now!

Just to get things straight here... there were rumors 2 years ago, that NHK has offered the role of Sakamoto Ryoma in RYOMADEN to Kimura Takuya. But in the end, they announced Fukuyama Masaharu, and rumors says Kimura has rejected the offer. It was made such a fuss, that the media kept asking NHK, "Is it true that you offered the role first to Kimura Takuya??" and NHK had to deny the rumors, "No, we offered the role to Fukuyama-san since the beginning,". (well of course, even if its true, NHK cannot say the truth, since it'll be a disgrace for Fukuyama XD)

About Kimura saying out loud on the Tsuki no Koibito filming set, "I should've accept the taiga offer!". Was also from a rumor article. The same article also says that Kimura and his manager is aiming to get him a leading role for the 2012 NHK Taiga drama.

Regarding taiga, I had once read that Shiroi Kyoto and Fumo Chitai were also considered as taiga dramas. So "taiga" basically means a big-scale drama with a big number of episodes.

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Post by mumbaki » Jul 14th, '10, 04:00

Hi to all Moon Lovers!

I've been a lurker here ever since and I must say that this thread has kept me sane while watching Moon Lovers. I decide to register here at d-addicts because I'm dying to comment. As Peggy said, it is nice to let something off from our chests. =) So, here they are:

1. Thanks to all of you who gave their insights on every important Ren & Maemi scenes. There are some things I missed out because of the language and culture barrier. Sometimes I look for different subs for the ones that I feel lacking in translations and in this thread those gaps were filled out (although sometimes I feel, we are already making up our own stories, hahah). Thanks to the insights of Ivtk (old lady- i love you), Notoriousnoona (pork meat bowls), Bérangère (kisama). The first two, i really have no idea of what Ren & Maemi mean about them until I read Ivtk and Notoriousnoona's explanations. For Bérangère, it confirmed my hunch. For the others, thanks for the lively conversations, they either confirmed or challenged my thoughts.

2. Regarding the sun-moon-earth metaphor, I think Moon Lovers mean "persons who love the moon" and that moon is Ren. All these three women love Ren, thus being "Moon Lovers" since I think the story is about three different kinds of love: fraternal love, passionate love, and comfortable-steady love. The latter being the one that outlasts the first two.

3. On the confession scene of Maemi: For me I would like to believe that Ren was not only overwhelmed by what Maemi said but he also felt relieved. It's the feeling of repressing or avoiding your feelings for someone in fear that you'll be risking your friendship but then this someone has feelings for you, all along. Thus, I would like to believe that Ren has deep feelings for Maemi even before, he just either deny it himself or he just recognized it the moment Maemi confessed.

4. I love the confession scene (Shinohara Ryoko was great! my heart went out with her), the getting-together scene, and the wedding day scene. Those made up for the Ren & Maemi kawaii (is that right?) scenes. And they are so subtle! Japanese dramas really know how to tease us and want for more! They are so subtle that I imagine the little sound that they made during their "kissing" argument was actually Ren struggling/scuffling to kiss Maemi. Do you remember, Maemi said that the office/workroom is not the place where they should kiss? Maemi is like complaining and I think Ren just answered her with another kiss before the scene faded away transiting towards Yuzuki's ramp scene.

5. Like what Peggy said, the beginning of the drama was very unbalanced and we have so much expectation because it is a Kimura Takuya drama. And like the rest of you I also felt that Shinohara Ryoko was underutilized. I think it was unfair for both of these two excellent actors to have a story that has a lot of holes and has coarse storyline/script. I think we need an SP or maybe another drama that will pair these two great actors, but this time it should be a well written and well paced one. These are two fine actors that when in a scene they don't outshine each other, on the contrary they highlight each other's performance. The audience can see that they match each other very well, acting-wise and charisma-wise.

Ok, that's it and though this was a long one, i hope i didn't bore you.

Thanks to all!

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 14th, '10, 04:03

Peggy wrote:I do not speak Japanese but my understanding of the culture is that they rarely say 'aishteru' which is 'I love you'. However, they might say 'sukiyo' which reads as ' I like you' but in the circumstance here Maemi was meaning 'I Love you' and Rensuke would take it that way.

I think it should be translated correctly as 'I love you' in this scene.

Just my opinion and I am sure someone else can correct me if wrong.

Peggy
oops, this should go under the OPs post, not Peggy's sorry.

She said:

好きだよ (suki da yo)
好きだったんだ (sukii datta n da)
I'm not japanese either, but to the best of my knowledge
Literally translated, it's I like you, but it really means I love you, I would say 98% of the time if you see someone in a drama saying Suki desu, suki da, suki da yo, or any of the variation, it means I love you. The second one is I loved you with an emphasis....[/spoiler]

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 14th, '10, 04:10

mumbaki wrote:Hi to all Moon Lovers!

I've been a lurker here ever since and I must say that this thread has kept me sane while watching Moon Lovers. I decide to register here at d-addicts because I'm dying to comment. As Peggy said, it is nice to let something off from our chests. =) So, here they are:

1. Thanks to all of you who gave their insights on every important Ren & Maemi scenes. There are some things I missed out because of the language and culture barrier. Sometimes I look for different subs for the ones that I feel lacking in translations and in this thread those gaps were filled out (although sometimes I feel, we are already making up our own stories, hahah). Thanks to the insights of Ivtk (old lady- i love you), Notoriousnoona (pork meat bowls), Bérangère (kisama). The first two, i really have no idea of what Ren & Maemi mean about them until I read Ivtk and Notoriousnoona's explanations. For Bérangère, it confirmed my hunch. For the others, thanks for the lively conversations, they either confirmed or challenged my thoughts.

2. Regarding the sun-moon-earth metaphor, I think Moon Lovers mean "persons who love the moon" and that moon is Ren. All these three women love Ren, thus being "Moon Lovers" since I think the story is about three different kinds of love: fraternal love, passionate love, and comfortable-steady love. The latter being the one that outlasts the first two.

3. On the confession scene of Maemi: For me I would like to believe that Ren was not only overwhelmed by what Maemi said but he also felt relieved. It's the feeling of repressing or avoiding your feelings for someone in fear that you'll be risking your friendship but then this someone has feelings for you, all along. Thus, I would like to believe that Ren has deep feelings for Maemi even before, he just either deny it himself or he just recognized it the moment Maemi confessed.

4. I love the confession scene (Shinohara Ryoko was great! my heart went out with her), the getting-together scene, and the wedding day scene. Those made up for the Ren & Maemi kawaii (is that right?) scenes. And they are so subtle! Japanese dramas really know how to tease us and want for more! They are so subtle that I imagine the little sound that they made during their "kissing" argument was actually Ren struggling/scuffling to kiss Maemi. Do you remember, Maemi said that the office/workroom is not the place where they should kiss? Maemi is like complaining and I think Ren just answered her with another kiss before the scene faded away transiting towards Yuzuki's ramp scene.

5. Like what Peggy said, the beginning of the drama was very unbalanced and we have so much expectation because it is a Kimura Takuya drama. And like the rest of you I also felt that Shinohara Ryoko was underutilized. I think it was unfair for both of these two excellent actors to have a story that has a lot of holes and has coarse storyline/script. I think we need an SP or maybe another drama that will pair these two great actors, but this time it should be a well written and well paced one. These are two fine actors that when in a scene they don't outshine each other, on the contrary they highlight each other's performance. The audience can see that they match each other very well, acting-wise and charisma-wise.

Ok, that's it and though this was a long one, i hope i didn't bore you.

Thanks to all!
Wow!! I'm very impressed!! I actually love your perspective!!! Especially #2 and #3!!! There were many situation I think that Ren knows that Maemi likes him, but like you said, he wasn't 100% sure whether it's platonic or other, so he didn't want to risk the friendship.

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Post by Peggy » Jul 14th, '10, 05:57

canavial.

Yes you are correct with the word Jidaigeki. It is my sloppiness. However I always called them taigas even when they were more fictitious than actual history. It seemed to me that very often there was a real history in the background.

As for the old taigas ....

Yanie.... I have been watching Asian stuff for so long that I can't remember half of what I have seen. The really good ones stay in my memory but usually not how I saw them. I am sure that I saw lots on TV and I have hundreds of DVDs in shelves and some of them I have yet to see. If you don't get something in the beginning many times it is never issued again. I rarely watched online because in those days I did not know how to do that. ( I go back...way back..) :whistling:

I think the Heaven and Earth I am remembering is a film. I also seem to think some of the huge battle scenes were made in Canada. Don't hold me to this but there is no longer enough room to do that particular scene in Japan I would think. Hundred of horseman and foot soldiers. Also Women horse soldiers who were braver than brave. I would watch this all over again and I have seen it three times on TV in the past. It has been made a few times with different casts. I don't remember Goro in the film I saw.
Someone check me if this was the battle of Sekigahara. ........
No not Sekagahara at all........ that was the Tokugawa and another guy later on.
I think it was Takeda Shingen versus Kagetora at the only time they actually met one another in battle. they were always fighting one another but never actually met again. Takeda loved Nami the daughter of a 'general' who was against him. Very touching scene when he listened to her playing the flute in such a haunting tune. Wonderful movie ..Want to see it again. So beautiful to look at it all the way through.

In Hojo Tokimune there was a halfbrother called Tokisuke. I don''t know if he was a real person. He sort of melted into the past. They made much more of him in the drama. It was so sad to watch the things that happened to him. I think it is probably the only time I felt a lump in my throat in a drama, in one particular scene. He was played by Watanabe Atsuro.
You have perked up my interest now and I will have to try and find these again. I will let you know if I do.
Forgive this rambling post.
Isn't it remarkable the different opinions and discussions that Moon Lovers has brought about.... :-)
Peg

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Post by notoriousnoona » Jul 14th, '10, 07:29

mumbaki wrote:Hi to all Moon Lovers!

I've been a lurker here ever since and I must say that this thread has kept me sane while watching Moon Lovers. I decide to register here at d-addicts because I'm dying to comment. As Peggy said, it is nice to let something off from our chests. =) So, here they are:

[...]
Ok, that's it and though this was a long one, i hope i didn't bore you.

Thanks to all!
It wasn't a bore at all. Thank you for sharing. I agree wholeheartedly with you. #2The majority of the time I was watching TnK I felt that Maemi had alot to do with why they weren't together. In that scene he was so boiled over with emotion, just like when she kicks him out and cuts him off. He wanted to say so much but Maemi was being a girl. However, I absolutely loved her. I identified with her in a way I don't think I have with a female character in a long long time. I completely understood her, even when I felt she was making a mistake.To me, Maemi was definitely the sun. She's inspirational. #3 The moon lovers perspective was right on! Each female shows her love for Ren in her own way. Maemi reiterates that when they look at the moon and she says its fine the way it is. And he is. #4 There's no denying you are positively right about that :thumright:

As for a special...well I don't know. Selfishly, I could see Ren with a little son and matching shades but what more could we do with them? Most likely he and Maemi would do freelance jobs so not much story there. I could even enivision Ren as a professor... But if Shinohara-san and Kimura-san could find a way to work together in a less intense role like he and Fukatsu-san did in CHANGE, that would be great! Just as long as they always end up together :cheers:

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Post by yunaling » Jul 14th, '10, 14:18

mumbaki wrote:Hi to all Moon Lovers!

I've been a lurker here ever since and I must say that this thread has kept me sane while watching Moon Lovers. I decide to register here at d-addicts because I'm dying to comment. As Peggy said, it is nice to let something off from our chests. =)
Same sentiments!

Recalling my experience watching Tsuki no Koibito and this thread, it has been quite a journey. I had high expectations for this drama, seeing the trailers and the hype about it. The singer of la la la love song, Toshinobu Kubota is singing the theme song, this being all publicised as a big romance drama. I think naturally people would expect it to be something of Long Vacation, like a good romance drama from the golden 90s.

However midway, I got a little frustrated, where's the romance that I've been wanting to see? Seeing the comments for LCL's acting, the difficult personality that Rensuke was, I couldn't fathom where this drama was heading. He doesn't talk much, doesn't explain himself, doesn't play hero, doesn't do sweet things for girls like most romance drama leads would. Is he worth a character to root for? And it makes you wonder why are there 3 women in love with such a jerk. Not two but THREE. :whistling:

But I somehow feel there's gotta be more. It's such a beautiful drama, and the concepts were such well thought of. Like with the Amebo and the 4 coins, the love at Regolith ad- how Maemi turned things over with her new idea when Mastpole stole their idea, why Rensuke decided to call his company Regolith - moon dust to spead his furniture around the world, more references to the moon with Maemi looking at it so intently. (I'm quite a visual person so these little details get to me.) If it's really bad writing why go to such extents? With that kind of feeling I watched on, I actually looked forward to each episode hoping to be blown away by a surprise or more resolution.

Now that I've come to the end, I'm glad the show has redeemed itself with the last 2 episodes. I can see Rensuke better now, and his charisma.
joisuramu wrote: btw, side question, do you know where I can find his recent WUS English translations? I've been looking around forever...but only found old ones back in 2006...2007...
This can really encourage me to study Japanese again if i couldn't find any...
I can only find Chinese translations so far. If you can understand Chinese, you can check out the 木村拓哉 bar at Baidu. To give a brief summary of last week's WUS he had questions and answers from the audience about the last episode of Tsuki no Koibito. Some more interesting trivia I've read:

The scene between Kazami and Rensuke after the competition, Mt Fuji was cg-ed away. He teased aint this a drama by Fuji tv? If they cg-ed away Mt Fuji then wouldn't it be just "TV" only? :D

Another part he commented about the Yuzuki hug scene, he liked that scene a lot. This part wasn't in the script originally too. He didn't want the scene to end with a dialogue. The key word of that dialogue was "sister" so he wanted it to end with some sibling physical contact. He mentioned there were quite a number of scenes that were improvised during the filming, it was something he felt like doing as Rensuke. The scene where Rensuke gave Yuzuki that chair, Yuzuki said something like: this big chunk of a chair take it back with you. Then Rensuke said if you're a little sister, listen to your big brother. This part wasn't originally in the script as well. Because Yuzuki asked if she could be Rensuke's sister, Rensuke hasn't replied but only reacted in his actions (the hug). There wasn't a verbal answer yet so this dialogue was added to imply that he has already accepted her as his sister, thanking her for that. This was improvised during filming as well :lol

(Pardon me if I didn't translate this well! ><)

After reading these, I wonder if this drama didn't have Kimura will the story still work without all these improvised scenes? He is amazing in understanding his character and the actions/body language and dialogue needed to convey the story's meaning to the audience.

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Post by Peggy » Jul 14th, '10, 18:06

Ah well I for one would not have watched this drama if Kimura had not beein the lead. He is the magnet for any of his dramas and this one was not the best in the writing and in the presentatiion of the characters. He always has something of his own to add to any role he plays. He has the talent to bring something extra to anything he does whatever it may be.

Without Kimura this drama would have been so dull despite the good cast. His role was the focal point, but I would not have watched after the first two episodes if another actor had been the lead.

I hope he will be able to pick a better drama next time.

Peg

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Post by joisuramu » Jul 14th, '10, 18:29

Thanks Peggy, canavial, and yanie for explaining what taiga is to me. I'm definitely going to check it out and hopefully will see Kimura cast in one of those some day :roll

I'm bummed that we can't find any WUS translations ~~~~
I can..."sorta" read chinese..maybe just 80%...and with Jap only 20%...haha..maybe i'll make my way through it! One day....when my jap is good enough, i'll translate them all in English :) haha...hopefully it won't be until I turn 60.... :lol

Well, thanks for all the nice info, yunaling :) I will check it out in Baidu. Kimura is really amazing...he takes his work really seriously and I really appreciate all the effort he puts in everything he do. That's the biggest reason why I like him so much :wub:

And yes..I really think the casts have a huge impact to determine if a drama is good or not. In this case, if they pick someone who is XM level to cast as Rensuke, then this drama will go down the drain immediately. Haha....in the drama when XM said she's going to be an actress in China...I kinda laughed out loud! Sorry to be mean...but that line was funny even though she said it in the drama.

I was like "HONTO???!?"

Ok..don't hate me now. :salut: She is indeed a very pretty model.

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 14th, '10, 19:16

joisuramu wrote:Thanks Peggy, canavial, and yanie for explaining what taiga is to me. I'm definitely going to check it out and hopefully will see Kimura cast in one of those some day :roll

I'm bummed that we can't find any WUS translations ~~~~
I can..."sorta" read chinese..maybe just 80%...and with Jap only 20%...haha..maybe i'll make my way through it! One day....when my jap is good enough, i'll translate them all in English :) haha...hopefully it won't be until I turn 60.... :lol

Well, thanks for all the nice info, yunaling :) I will check it out in Baidu. Kimura is really amazing...he takes his work really seriously and I really appreciate all the effort he puts in everything he do. That's the biggest reason why I like him so much :wub:

And yes..I really think the casts have a huge impact to determine if a drama is good or not. In this case, if they pick someone who is XM level to cast as Rensuke, then this drama will go down the drain immediately. Haha....in the drama when XM said she's going to be an actress in China...I kinda laughed out loud! Sorry to be mean...but that line was funny even though she said it in the drama.

I was like "HONTO???!?"

Ok..don't hate me now. :salut: She is indeed a very pretty model.
Anyone has the link to the SMAP WUS site?

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Post by Iris Zephyr » Jul 15th, '10, 00:55

:-) Here's a link to the official "What's Up SMAP!" Website: http://www.tfm.co.jp/what-s/topics/index.html

And, here's a link to a website where WUS episodes can be downloaded: http://kusanagitsuyoshi.netfirms.com/radio.htm

Credits and many thanks to Totoro, who has so kindly compiled and uploaded the radio shows. :lol

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Post by fayewolf » Jul 15th, '10, 15:16

Few more silly questions, I didn't really pay alot of attention in the previous episodes because I was mad about the XM/Ren relationship... :P
Ren called XM when he was waiting for her at dinner with his mom, then XM told him that she was going back to China. Apparently, she didn't go back. Kazami told Maemi that he stopped her. Why did XM not contacted Ren at all since she was still in Japan? Did Kazami not let her? If so why?
When Kazami found out that XM still has no forgotten Ren, he told her to go see him. Why?
Thanks for any input!

holly memphis
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Post by holly memphis » Jul 15th, '10, 21:37

Hi,
I just joined, but I have been reading you for a while. I absolutly loved the dorama. So I am curious, don´t you know how did the things go in the book?
Thank you
:-)

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jul 15th, '10, 23:18

fayewolf,

I imagine that Kazami needed her to continue with the modeling for Regolith. I noticed in that scene at the airport that when XM was standing with her back to the camera there was someone standing just at the lefthand side of the shot. It looked like a man wearing dark trousers and I wondered if it was Kazami.

Also when he suggested XM go to visit Ren, I think he was just up to his old tricks and hoped that it would have a chance ot getting them back together again. Then he would still think of Maemi for himself. Very slight hope I suppose, but he did not give up his thoughts.

Just my 2 cents.

Peg

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aucifer69
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Post by aucifer69 » Jul 16th, '10, 09:43

The drama went down for me in the last two ep.
i dont know what happen with the last 2 ep but the drama took a dip, worst ending ever. i felt like i wasted my time with it, after being so into it. he was better off with any of the other two girls..... Maemi was just force on us in the last two ep, and WTF he was still in loved with the chinese chick, how the hell and why the hell did he leave her? cuz he was mean to her? WTF i dont know if anyone else feels the same.. but it just wont make sense why spend all the focus on the chinese girl for 6 out of 8 episodes if he was going to end up with maemi...... it just doesnt make sense and it really pissed me off. this the first kimura drama i hate. in the end he was better off staying alone if things were going to turn like this. if he lost everything it should be everything.

.

mumbaki
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Post by mumbaki » Jul 16th, '10, 11:10

notoriousnoona wrote:
mumbaki wrote:Hi to all Moon Lovers!

I've been a lurker here ever since and I must say that this thread has kept me sane while watching Moon Lovers. I decide to register here at d-addicts because I'm dying to comment. As Peggy said, it is nice to let something off from our chests. =) So, here they are:

[...]
Ok, that's it and though this was a long one, i hope i didn't bore you.

Thanks to all!

As for a special...well I don't know. Selfishly, I could see Ren with a little son and matching shades but what more could we do with them? Most likely he and Maemi would do freelance jobs so not much story there. I could even enivision Ren as a professor... But if Shinohara-san and Kimura-san could find a way to work together in a less intense role like he and Fukatsu-san did in CHANGE, that would be great! Just as long as they always end up together :cheers:
The image of Ren having a little son with matching shades really made me laugh. I must say that's a sight to see! :roll

Actually I'm thinking of an SP that is more of Ren's perspective. In the drama all we saw was Maemi's perspective, on how well she knows Ren, her loyalty to Ren, and her love for him. We also saw how she made bridges between Ren and Xiumei and gave updates to Yuzuki of Ren's whereabouts. However, we never knew how Ren felt with Xiumei, Yuzuki, and especially with Maemi. All we did was assumed, guessed, and theorized. Maybe, doing an SP with this storyline is giving the audience too much, relieving the mystery of Ren, nevertheless, it would be interesting.

But I guess asking for an SP is not really practical and I'm only hoping that Kimura and Shinohara Ryoko will be paired again in another series and like you said, they'll up together in the end.

FAYEWOLF:
Thanks for appreciating my insights. Regarding your question about Xiumei, I think Peggy answered them quite right. :-) [/quote]

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notoriousnoona
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Post by notoriousnoona » Jul 16th, '10, 13:34

fayewolf wrote:Few more silly questions, I didn't really pay alot of attention in the previous episodes because I was mad about the XM/Ren relationship... :P
Ren called XM when he was waiting for her at dinner with his mom, then XM told him that she was going back to China. Apparently, she didn't go back. Kazami told Maemi that he stopped her. Why did XM not contacted Ren at all since she was still in Japan? Did Kazami not let her? If so why?
When Kazami found out that XM still has no forgotten Ren, he told her to go see him. Why?
One thing that XM proved several times throughout the drama was that she wasn't reliable. She wasn't a steady person though she was supposed to pure and kind. Almost everytime Ren "really" needed someone in his corner, he got abandoned. To me this time was no different. She didn't speak to him because she believed he was the cause of the whole Ming thing, she was angry and thought that it was over. Which it was. I think that she did care for him but she refused to accept him and love him for who he was today, instead of how she hoped he would be. It wasn't until Ming told him about Kazami that she went to look for him.
As for Kazami, professionally it made sense for him to stop XM. Regolith needed her. And if Regolith needed her, so did he. More importantly though, Kazami, like Ren didn't want her existence to be about being used,entirely. He understood her position unlike anyone else in the drama (outside of Ming). XM was trying to be some type of moral pioneer but in order for her to achieve her long term goals, she needed the Regolith job. Kazami knew that. Sending her to Ren...I guess we could say that it was selfish, and on a level I'm sure it was. Kazami never seemed to understand what was so "romantically" appealing about Ren, but that's just cause he's not a woman ;) However, though I think that Kazami was a complete jerk, I believe that he listened to others and wanted them to have what they wanted, if it didn't interfere with his own goals. XM being with Ren was what she wanted and worked in his favor. Kazami did a lot of listening throughout this drama, he assessed the hopes and dreams of people using their desires to benefit himself but also believing that all would work out in the end. (In ep 8 he makes reference to this to Maemi. I love her response!)

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trasuachieumua
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Post by trasuachieumua » Jul 17th, '10, 17:17

Aaaaaa I'm so sorry if I made topic off but I really love all your post and your disscusion XD.

Everyday I log in to this page to wait for new posts xD.
I can say that I love d-addict because a lot of reasons but the most is the disscusion of everyone here :wub:

notoriousnoona: Thank you for your explanation. I can't say how much I love your post so I will say nothing XD
(my mother loves your post too XD I translated it to her and she said that she liked your idea so much ^3^).
I sent you a pm because my English is bad and I afraid of making mistake and off topic but maybe you didn't take it :P
So I can't help myself, go there and post a post ^.^

Would you please to say about the other things in your list ("There is so much more I could say about. The four coins and the meatless pork bowls, the chair explanation, the waterstrider talk, the rain, Yuzuki and the are they or aren’t off camera shot but I won’t."). I really really want to read it that I can die XD (half funny and half really XD).

Please please please XD !!!!!!!!!



I watched again ep 1, 2 this evening and I think that they are better than the first time I watched it.
I really love the way Rensuke and Maemi together. Especially, the scene in the restaurant in Shanghai, I remembered the analyses of notoriousnoona (thank you so much XD) about the pork bowl (It's so great ^^v - I love it).

In that restaurant, first, Rensuke take a seat next to Maemi, and then, he left her to go to Xiu Mei. I think that it was the start of their story. But I wonder, why in that time, Xiu Mei was the person who told him about the meaning of 4 coins, maybe it has some meaning?

And when Xiu Mei said about happiness, Ren looked at her and Maemi. Did he think about his happiness too? What is the meaning of this scene?

I really want to watch it again and find the answer XD

Anon.
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Post by Anon. » Jul 18th, '10, 03:37

trasuachieumua wrote:
I really love the way Rensuke and Maemi together. Especially, the scene in the restaurant in Shanghai, I remembered the analyses of notoriousnoona (thank you so much XD) about the pork bowl (It's so great ^^v - I love it).

In that restaurant, first, Rensuke take a seat next to Maemi, and then, he left her to go to Xiu Mei. I think that it was the start of their story. But I wonder, why in that time, Xiu Mei was the person who told him about the meaning of 4 coins, maybe it has some meaning?

And when Xiu Mei said about happiness, Ren looked at her and Maemi. Did he think about his happiness too? What is the meaning of this scene?

I really want to watch it again and find the answer XD
LOL. If you finished watching the series you'd know that answer (to the four coins) that Xiu Mei gave him was completely wrong. :D The real answer is something much more awesome. And it makes me mad that Rensuke never got the real thing. =.=

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trasuachieumua
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Post by trasuachieumua » Jul 18th, '10, 03:57

Anon.: XD
I finished it and watched it over and over (a week ago) XD

But I think that in the first time Maemi asked Ren (when they're in college together), she gave him the wrong answer because ... because ... she is a girl and girls always say the other thing to mean what they really think XD.
So I love this detail very much, maybe it is the most interesting detail in this drama.
Like the lamp that Aki gave Halu in Pride, it is very touching and beautiful detail :-)

I love Maemi more because she is very naive when she want to told Ren that she loved him but never told him until the day that she thought he would go away. Maybe she wish that he could find the true answer about 4 coins by himself :-)

I feel very touching with it XD

fayewolf
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Post by fayewolf » Jul 18th, '10, 06:17

There are 5 scenes that I've been watching over and over again for the past few days:

Ep 7: Ren explaining what moon the moon represents. So it's been dwelled into my head. I kept telling the man I'm in love with that I'm his moon, and finally he asked me , where is all this moon stuff coming from? Am I your sun? (ahhaha NO)

Ep 8: When XM came to see Ren at the house. She said she's going back to china to be an actress. Ren just said Yogatta. She was hurt, so hurt, you can see in her eyes. Then she start writing Aishiteru on the window with tears rolling down her eyes.

Ep 8: Yuzu's confession scene. She'll always by her side no matter who Ren chooses, then she demands to be carried. And needless to say, I made the man I love carried me just like that. He was hesistant at first, but hey, I'm not that heavy, and he's like your stilletos, be careful! When Yuzu went home and cried in bed, I cried.

Ep8: Xiu Mei at the airport: NO matter how much I don't like her, that was pretty good. He thought maybe Ren came to tell her to stay. But Ren said "sayornara".... that was very hurty. She told him to go home, with tears rolling down her eyes as well. I cried for her.

Ep 8: Of course, the Maemi confession scene. When she tells him to keep running, and loves looking at his back. I cried.

thorned_sakura
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Post by thorned_sakura » Jul 18th, '10, 11:01

for the sp, i'm thinking more along the line of a prequel...something from their college days-- though i have no idea how they'd make takuya and shinohara appear young enough to be taken as college students. it would be nice to know how their relationship developed into how it is now. i'm sure many xumei/ren shippers would understand the maemi/ren pairing if they saw a prequel to the series since their problem with the story was that they followed the storyline with the assumption that the first episode is the beginning of the story...but the thing is ren and maemi's story started way before the first episode, and throughout the series, their relationship have only been developed as a subtext (with the exception of the last few episodes) to first, ren and xumei's love affair, and then to the development of regolith. though some may find this hard to accept, but in reality, love can be downplayed by other events in your life...but as long as it is constant, love will always prevail in the end.

of course, this is only wishful thinking...like i said, i don't have any clue how they'd make shinohara and kimutaku look young enough to pass as college students.one thing is sure though, if there would ever be an sp, i wouldn't want xumei to be in it!hehehe

sweetimpact
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Post by sweetimpact » Jul 18th, '10, 17:11

anyone know the lexus model that ren is driving? love it XD

joisuramu
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Post by joisuramu » Jul 19th, '10, 18:34

thorned_sakura wrote:for the sp, i'm thinking more along the line of a prequel...something from their college days-- though i have no idea how they'd make takuya and shinohara appear young enough to be taken as college students. it would be nice to know how their relationship developed into how it is now. i'm sure many xumei/ren shippers would understand the maemi/ren pairing if they saw a prequel to the series since their problem with the story was that they followed the storyline with the assumption that the first episode is the beginning of the story...but the thing is ren and maemi's story started way before the first episode, and throughout the series, their relationship have only been developed as a subtext (with the exception of the last few episodes) to first, ren and xumei's love affair, and then to the development of regolith. though some may find this hard to accept, but in reality, love can be downplayed by other events in your life...but as long as it is constant, love will always prevail in the end.

of course, this is only wishful thinking...like i said, i don't have any clue how they'd make shinohara and kimutaku look young enough to pass as college students.one thing is sure though, if there would ever be an sp, i wouldn't want xumei to be in it!hehehe
I felt the same way too. Starting from the first episode, I realized Ren X Maemi's story was not as simple as it seemed. Even though they didn't show too much of their college life, maybe like 5 sec of it, it was already enough for me to believe. I held onto that concept throughout 2-4th episode, but ep. 5-6 started to mess with my mind a little. Right when I wanted to give up on this drama because XM was getting in the way of everything, ep. 7 saved the day! After watching ep.7 I was pretty sure ep.8 would go in the same direction I wanted the drama to go..

But there are still a lot of holes in this drama...I wanted them to explain all the things they tried to build up in the beginning...like why making Kazami san such a suspicious person? Even though the drama is not really focused on him, but his closure at the end was not satisfying enough. And why water strider? I understand the whole love rain tied to happiness thing but I thought there was a much deeper meaning to water strider because they made such a big fuzz about it in the beginning.

A prequel would be nice but I doubt they will do one since the ratings are not too high. I don't think they look too old for it..they both look young for their age, especially Kimura. Women tends to look older than their age, but Shinohara doesn't look that old either I think.

I actually wish they'll do an SP on Mr. Brain instead. The last ep. felt like it NEEDED one badly. At first, I thought i forgot to dl the last episode or something....it just kinda stopped there...the case wasn't even over yet.....

sweetimpact wrote:anyone know the lexus model that ren is driving? love it XD
I think it's a Lexus ISC. Sleek and Classy..matches Rensuke perfectly well.

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