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[Discussion] Tsuki no Koibito

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

Who do you want Rensuke (Kimura Takuya) to end up with?

Maemi (Shinohara Ryoko)
147
53%
Xiu Mei (Lin Chiling)
69
25%
Kazami (Matsuda Shota)
23
8%
Nobody
14
5%
I don't care
25
9%
 
Total votes: 278

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bérangère
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Post by bérangère » Jun 18th, '10, 07:26

I'm so upset they skip next week, the tension was so high in this episode !
In fact, at the begining, I thought they were meddling too much of "business related things" with this drama, which was supposed to be a love story but now... I really became interested in Regolith. I want to know what will happen to the company as much as I want to know what will happen of Rensuke. In fact, they were quite obliged to develop Regolith that much in the drama, aftert all, Regolith IS Rensuke. That is what is the most important in his life, so it became a big part of the drama. We could not have understand him if the company's background had not been so detailed.

Contrary to what other members said, I am not so much convinced that Kazami will handle Regolith back to Rensuke in the end. There is also the possibility that after desappearing for a time (they said in the preview he was nowhere to be found. Maybe he went to Shanghai ? Not sure if the streets he walks are Shanghai's or the Chinese neighbourhood where he first started his business), he will (of course, he's the Hero !) come back and fight, creating another company, and this time, a company for which he will stick to his original dream.

This episode was really touching, the way Rensuke hurts his closest allies was so sad. The part with Kijihata made me cry.
This part of Rensuke behaviour is still not clear for me, I still can't determine if he does that because he sensed that something wrong was happening and he wanted them to leave the vessel before it sank, or because he's just like those children who test people thinking "how far do you love me ?". Of course there is also the possibility he's just a brat, but I don't think so (yes, I'm a believer).
We saw with Kijihata that it was hard for him to do it. And I think the "answer" Kijihata gave him was just great. It was a sort of "Yes I leave you, but not because I hate you, because doing so I can save you". Whatever the disposition of mind of Rensuke may have been (the captain wanting to save the team or the child looking for affection), this answer was perfect. I hope Rensuke realized that his dream is not only his. He shared it with people long ago, and it had become them also.

Thanks to Kijihata, Rensuke may realize that some people believe in him. And he should have known that hurting Maemi is not something that would draw her away from his side... Because she is a believer ^__^

I'm really looking forward to what will happen now. I hope this was the last time we saw Xiu Mei, but I don't think so. I mean... that would be too... easy, wouldn't it ? Scenarists are surely preparing a backward attack that will let me devastated.
But as for now, Rensuke and Xiu Mei's dream are not compatible. Because even if his company was taken from him, Rensuke's dream is still to bring fourniture to people all over the Earth. And there is little chance he will be able to do it in a small village in China, chasing for amenbos. Well... with the developpement of fair trade, after all, who knows ?
But the fact that Xiu Mei did not get angry at him for closing the factory seemed to have a big impact on him. It was so strange, she suddenly began to enclose her own feelings to protect his. Some people may think it's touching, but I think that what drew Rensuke to Xiu Mei was this wild frankness. You know, the typical drama character that "smiles when she is happy, cry when she is sad and yell when she is angry", that everybody in drama always "find so refreshing"... And she clearly told him in the airport that she is not that type of person.

Well, shame on the world cup to delay the answers to all the questions I am asking me for another week ! As if waiting one full week between each episode was not hard enough !

Anon.
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Post by Anon. » Jun 18th, '10, 12:42

lvtk wrote:I finally can watch episode 6 with sub. If there will be only more 2 episodes, I want to predict that Ren/Maemi supporters will be very unhappy with the ending. It is a normal pattern of loving, seperation, and then making up, isn't it? It recalls me about "Pride" somehow.
This is what I guess:

I think it seems to be obvious that Ren/XM will be together after all. I don't think that farewell will be the final one. XM left Ren because she thought he sold Ming out. After the truth is revealed, XM will forgive Ren as usual. That seperation scene was just something to comfort Ren/Maemi supporters for a temporary. I will not surprise at all seeing Ren goes after XM to Shanghai and disappear for a while, then come back to regain his throne at Regolith.

We know that Maemi loves Ren but there is still no sign so far showing a further bonding between Ren/Maemi more than a friendship from Ren's side, and I don't think it will have one. I mean if it did have, I would jump up and down.. but I don't think my dream will come true for this one!

Why do I guess it that way? Ren told Maemi that she didn't know him. That scene made me think that Ren has never had his eye on her more than a friend. He has never realized that Maemi does everything for him because of "him". So, what he said to her was interpreted the same way he treated Yuzuki to me. Meaning, they are not a pair in this drama. They may be bonded each other because of a length of time as a long-term friend but friendship, most of time, is still ended up as "a friend", isn't it? Moreover, he said he wanted to make XM to be happy. He has never said that to Maemi. Although his thank to Maemi may be from his heart, but it is telling me that is all he can do for her.

Ren was serious about marriage XM to the level of introducting his mother, it wasn't for the company as we thought. It's real for himself. I don't think Ren's mother will have any fluence to either his relationship with Maemi or his business. Otherwise, she would not ask Maemi "Are you still single?" and said about buying a few pieces of furniture to help the company's situation. Her apperance is just an ordinary mother who doesn't have a good relationship with her son.

Although Ren said that he couldn't change the way he lives, but that is, again, "a popular dialog" in a drama when a lover has problems, isn't it? I think his way of living will be changed for XM someway somehow due to his changing at Regolith. It's an easy one for the story to be developed that way.

At first, I thought Maemi's leaving would have an impact to the story and turn Ren/Maemi to the new chapter that many of us are waiting for. But I don't think there will be one. It doesn't matter if Maemi will leave Regolith because he is not there. It doesn't matter if Maemi will leave his side because he feels that XM's smile is "strong" for him. Normally, when someone said "I can do nothing for him", it's always a word from the leading character, the same as XM said to Maemi. On the other hand, when someone said "you can do for him", that person is always a supporting person, the same as Maemi said to XM.

Of course, Kazami will bow out and return Regolith to Ren at the end. Although the story convinces that Ren is a bad guy, but now it shows reasons behind those incidents that he isn't. And with Maemi's words so many time that "that guy is a good person", so a good guy will win for sure. I guess Ren's team will come back as the orginal start.. and that will be a happy ending for work, right?

Maemi's role seems to be a supporter for Ren finding his happiness, not for Ren and herself. I think this is why they didn't announce who is a leading actress since it might cause people to ignore the drama since the first hand.

The end!
Ahh.. I am in too much with the story. I need to eat something to calm myself down..LOL
lol, two more episodes? It's either 7 or 10...not 8...unless you didn't see episode 6 yet. If there is only one episode left, based on the preview, it looks highly unlikely that Ren will chase after Xiu Mei. I mean if he was going to, at least they'd have a snippet of a scene with Ren running or looking out of breath or...I don't know...having a sudden realization.
Instead, the closest we get to some sort of romantic scene...
is the preview of his sudden meeting with Yuzuki.
But...if there are ten episodes, I think that that scenario may be more likely than MaemixRen getting together...maybe. I mean, it'd be a typical drama for that to happen.

But it's also typical for the first couple to form to be non-existent by the end...simply because it's not supposed to last.

Based on the development of the drama, it seems to be the former.

If the director did intend for Xiu Mei and Ren to be the ending couple, I'd be a tad irritated but astounded that he put what he thought would be the most appropriate ending...over what the country would have obviously preferred. And for that I'd respect him.

But would he really do that? [/spoiler]

lvtk
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Post by lvtk » Jun 18th, '10, 16:46

I couldn't remember exactly where I read, somebody said that the new drama will be aired on Jul 19.
Since next week will be skipped, that means 3 weeks left. So, it is possible for total 9 episodes, which I can have hope for Ren/Maemi, can't I? Well..I have to hold my breath!!

Regardless which direction this drama will be twisted, I really enjoy it after all :)

nnnc
Posts: 122
Joined: Jul 3rd, '09, 08:09

Post by nnnc » Jun 18th, '10, 18:51

joisuramu wrote:I'm feeling a bit let down after reading Rensuke's blog. Today, he saw more アメンボ (water strider) and felt happy seeing them. (long sigh....) does that mean there's going to be more of Xiu Mei? My goodness, I thought she's gone already....
From what he said in his radio show, Kimura himself doesn't even know what will happen in the end. And I don't think that blog means anything in term of relationship between Xiu Mei and Rensuke. That is one of the few blogs he wrote that I think he's out of Rensuke's character. I feel he wrote that blog as "Kimura Takuya of SMAP" Lately he wrote a lot about going to recording studio, shooting the CM, and even talked about recording a corner for SMAPxSMAP. He used to write vaguely about these stuffs and not specifically used the word "SMAP" in the blog. But I guess because recently he has spent a lot of time working as/with SMAP, so he forgot to speak as if he's Hazuki Rensuke in the blog anymore.

Still, I'm willing to bet $$$$ that ep6 is not the end of Xiu Mei. She will show up again and probably be the one who ends up with Rensuke. But it would be very funny if Fuji decide to cut her off now because it seems the majority of the audiences doesn't like this pairing and it hurts the rating :mrgreen: I don't think it will happen but I wouldn't put it past FujiTV to pull out this trick now. There is nothing for them to lose, in fact they could save those money that they have to pay LCL :whistling:

AndLoveYelledNO
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Location: NYC

Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 18th, '10, 20:58

I want the writer to be consistent and true to the story she has created instead of letting the audience dictate where it should go. If Ren/Maemi was their original intention, i'm baffled as to why they spent 6 episodes developing Ren/Xiu Mei. This seemed like a good idea? Really?

I think moving on to Ren/Maemi would have made some sense if they had given them anything at all during the last six episodes. They could have shown a conflicted Ren who at times finds himself feeling something more for Maemi but not quite understanding what. Other dramas do this all the time: the guy-finally-realizes-he-loves-the-girl-who's-been-there-all-along storyline isn't any more original than the Cinderella one.
If Ren had ever looked at her with any romantic interest or even shown a tiny sign of jealousy over her being with another man, it would have worked. But he didn't. The only one he's always staring at with longing, the only one he's going crazy with jealousy over is Xiu Mei.

If Maemi was being played by some unknown actress, no one would be questioning who the OTP is because the story has been selling Ren/Xiu Mei since the beginning.

I'm suppose to believe that he suddenly gets over Xiu Mei and magically sees Maemi as a romantic interest? When nothing that has come before this has even hinted that he could ever have those feelings? Sorry, it's impossible to make that believable in just 4 episodes. The only thing they can hold on to right now is a time jump. Good luck with that.

Soannie
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Post by Soannie » Jun 18th, '10, 22:01

Ratings of 13.42% are not too bad in this World Cup context.

Overall, this drama is pretty good. As many people have said here however, the drama doesn't seem to meet their expectations.
Obviously it's difficult to remain objective.

Actually this series focuses too much on the company so the characters aren't developed enough.
I would have appreciated to know a little more about their private lifes, their family or friends, their tastes, their passions, anyway, everything but Regolith.
For example, we know nothing or nearly about Maemi's life when she doesn't work, the same for Kazami or even Rensuke.
The only one we know a bit more about is Xiu Mei.

The romance scenes last hardly 15 minutes or 20 minutes all in all for the six episodes altogether.
Consequently, the title 'Moon Lovers" doesn't seem very appropriate. Another title like " Regolith Business" or something like that would be better. That's my opnion of course..
Last edited by Soannie on Jun 19th, '10, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.

joisuramu
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Post by joisuramu » Jun 18th, '10, 22:47

I finally watched 6 with sub. Although there weren't too much up and down tension going on, but I found it to be an important episode for Rensuke's inner being.
He finally realize there are people who cares for him. We saw a touching moment when he found out that Kijihata actually did a lot to support his company and his dreams. He was grateful for what Yuzuki did even though he didn't show his feelings much. And Maemi, she supported him all along and was always worried about him. But i was a shocked when he said to her "What do YOU know about me". I was like "WHat?? How can you possibly say that to her when you don't even know YOURSELF!" She was speechless and heartbroken at that moment, I bet. It killed her mentally and emotionally. Jerk!

On the other hand, I do feel sorry for him. It definitely feels like something really bad had happened to him in the past for him to become the Rensuke he is now. I also thinks that Maemi sacrificed a lot for him, supporting and caring for him all along and hoping that one day he'll turn back to the Rensuke she used to know. She is willing to let another girl have him (XM) as long as he's happy.
Honestly, I don't feel much love going on in this drama. It's more like a constant battle between self, business, emotions and torture. I wonder why they say this is a "love" drama Kimura is in since 10 years ago. I see more love in Pride, Good Luck and even Hero. I guess it's a different view of love I didn't expect it to be.
#7 in 2 weeks, now that's real torture for me. :glare:

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 19th, '10, 02:43

Well you are lucky to have seen 6 subs. I am still waiting for the Eng. hard subs. I have watched without subs and it does not really seem all that terrible, but I still am hoping that he will not go flying off to China after XM. I just don't see any romantic connection between those two people at all. Sexual crashing, yes, but that does not last unless something more evolves. I just wish it had been someone else beside that actress to play that part.

Peg

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 19th, '10, 07:11

The plot still thickens. Having the subs adds more and more to think about. His world is getting smaller and tighter around him and still we don't have a clue about the way this drama will finally evolve.
I must say it has become a most interesting drama for me at last. Not the usual type of drama for Kimura and he is finally making us realise what a really good actor he is. His demeanour from the beginning was cold and almost mysterious. Certainly not a man to like very much. Not a warm and fuzzy thought in his head. Now it takes everything crushing him to bring some kind of revealing response.
Reminds me...'The Kraken Wakes' ..... at last so.......Look out!!!

Episode 7 will be even more revealing I would think. It just might turn out the way I want it....maybe...mustbe...... 8)

Peggy

joisuramu
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Post by joisuramu » Jun 19th, '10, 08:09

Peggy wrote:I still am hoping that he will not go flying off to China after XM. I just don't see any romantic connection between those two people at all. Sexual crashing, yes, but that does not last unless something more evolves. I just wish it had been someone else beside that actress to play that part.
I think the same way too. The inner me don't want to see him chasing XM back. I want him to realize he has someone better waiting for him here. It is because I'm still feeling sketchy about XM's character. I don't know if she really does love Rensuke, or all along, it is just a plan to hurt him.

Hmm..i was thinking earlier, if someone else played the character XM, will I still dislike her? Say if a better actress played her role, like Zhang Zi Yi, will I like her more? (Sorry for this comparison if you think it's so wrong to compare the 2..i'm trying to think of a similar Chinese actress who can act....I don't know many so that's why I picked her. Plus, I don't like her that much either, but i think she's a much better actress though) I think i will like XM more just because a better actress play her role, but I still wouldn't want her to be with Rensuke because of the character itself. I'm just not sold on her role and somehow couldn't make myself feel pity for her since the beginning. If that was intentional, then sorry..i guess I never got into that character or I might have missed out on something. :salut:

That's just my opinion :whistling:

[ XD ]
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Post by [ XD ] » Jun 19th, '10, 11:39

Oh my ! don't say Ren will chase after Xm. I'm gonna die if that happen.
I mean Maemi with him, what does he like about Xm T^T
and no episode next week ><

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 19th, '10, 20:50

I have also wondered what I would think if a different and better actress had played the XM role. I think it would have been an altogether different drama. No-one could be as ineffective showing us a character as Chi Ling. Sorry to say but that is my opinion. The way this drama is going I think that someone or maybe all the directors, got together and decided who the characters were and how they wanted the plot to go along. The only one they could actually count on was Kimura as Rensuke and he has remained solid in this character. Shinohara has had to remain almost static in her character. There were scenes when I felt so bored with what they gave her to say and do. Even at times I thought ' If Rensuke is going to walk down that corridor one more time and turn into the conference room I will throw up..'. I know they are supposed to be in an office which limits the settings, but it needed a little more freedom spacing out the scenes.

I think at last things are lifting and becoming more understandable. The one thing I can't fix in my mind is the reason for Kazami to be acting as he is at this particular time. Was he always a bad guy? did he always mean to challenge Rensuke and ruin him? Or is it that Regolith is moving into China and for some reason he hates this happening. After all he is supposed to be born Chinese. It's still a mystery to me.

Peggy

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20centuryboy
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Post by 20centuryboy » Jun 20th, '10, 08:46

nnnc wrote: Still, I'm willing to bet $$$$ that ep6 is not the end of Xiu Mei. She will show up again and probably be the one who ends up with Rensuke.
I bet my pants that she will end up with Sai Kazami ( he speaks chinese, remember?) and Kimu Taku will end up with Shinohara Ryoko.
The cold hearted businessman Kimutaku will start from scratches a smaller company and will become a warm hearted man with the help of Shinohara Ryoko. At least, that's the typical Kimutaku drama end plot you can expect.
The one thing I can't fix in my mind is the reason for Kazami to be acting as he is at this particular time. Was he always a bad guy? did he always mean to challenge Rensuke and ruin him? Or is it that Regolith is moving into China and for some reason he hates this happening. After all he is supposed to be born Chinese. It's still a mystery to me.
I only watched 4 episods ( I follow the timeless sub version) but obviously, you can guess that Kazami is a Hazuki Rensuke disciple: he acts like Ren would have. And he's here to teach him a lesson wich is " become the good guy all the female watchers expect you to become so they can cry at the end of the drama". :mrgreen:
I want the writer to be consistent and true to the story she has created instead of letting the audience dictate where it should go. If Ren/Maemi was their original intention, i'm baffled as to why they spent 6 episodes developing Ren/Xiu Mei. This seemed like a good idea? Really?
This is a drama, you're suposed to have some surprise at the end. Actually, I see the Ren/Maemi romance comming since the first episode.

lvtk
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Post by lvtk » Jun 20th, '10, 13:27

20centuryboy wrote:Actually, I see the Ren/Maemi romance comming since the first episode.
Really? I mean I saw a very comfortable and easy feeling between them more than between Ren/XM but I wasn't convinced it was a romance feeling because Ren seemed to have a distance somehow. When Ren was with Maemi, I could feel a warm gently hug around them. However, how's come he called her "a middle aged woman" if he loved her? Or was it the way he hid his feeling to her? In contrast to XM, I felt his very tight hug but no room to breath as if he was afraid she would driff away for some reason.

I would like to think so that Ren would end up with Maemi but I hesitate somehow because it is already 2/3 of total episodes. I know that most of dramas ending is totally different from the beginning but at least there will be some signs to show us. This drama is something different, which is why I really enjoy it very much.

If you don't mind, would you please recap romance scenses between Ren/Maemi a little bit? Since there will be no aired next week, I can go back to rewatch them to see if they were the same scenses I thought. At least, it will give me some hopes..LOL. Sometimes men view things differently than women.. Moreover, I think this drama is about a love story between 2 persons in working age, not a high school age or something like that. Well, I might be wrong.

Thanks!

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20centuryboy
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Post by 20centuryboy » Jun 20th, '10, 16:17

lvtk wrote: If you don't mind, would you please recap romance scenses between Ren/Maemi a little bit? Since there will be no aired next week, I can go back to rewatch them to see if they were the same scenses I thought. At least, it will give me some hopes..LOL. Sometimes men view things differently than women.. Moreover, I think this drama is about a love story between 2 persons in working age, not a high school age or something like that. Well, I might be wrong.

Thanks!
There is none but a drama storyline is built for the ending climax.

At first what do we have?
- a perfect cold blooded a.s.s.h.o.l.e/businessman ( KT)
- an honest worker enthusiast and caring to her subordinates ( SR).
in the scene of the onigiri, we can see that she knows him perfectly and that she knows exactly his needs. So my guess is: who can turn him into a good/generous/caring guy we all expect him to become at the end of the drama?

Not XM because she's just a toy in his hands.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 20th, '10, 16:56

Given this halt in the episodes gives me time to think about what will happen to Regolith. I have a feeling that once Rensuke goes away the company will also go away. Kazami will not be able to deal with the problems, some of which he has caused. I think the staff will not trust him as a leader and they will all resign including Maemi. There is no longer a shop or factory open in Shanghai and there is no strong business future in Japan for Regolith.
There will be nothing for Kazami to control.
It seems fairly obvious that Rensuke will reappear with a firm resolve to have a company again and he will still want to follow his dream.
Whether this will include XM is very shaky. I think it will bring Maemi back as a contractor but I am not sure if there will be any romantic bonding there now. Maybe a hint for something stronger in the future between them. The ending will be all Rensuke back at work once more.

I still can't sort out the resons for Kazami being so vicious in his actions against Rensuke. There has to be some basic reason for his actions.

Peggy

lvtk
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Post by lvtk » Jun 20th, '10, 17:24

20centuryboy wrote:At first what do we have?
- a perfect cold blooded a.s.s.h.o.l.e/businessman ( KT)
- an honest worker enthusiast and caring to her subordinates ( SR).
in the scene of the onigiri, we can see that she knows him perfectly and that she knows exactly his needs. So my guess is: who can turn him into a good/generous/caring guy we all expect him to become at the end of the drama?

Not XM because she's just a toy in his hands.
LOL.. you described Ren's behavior so clear. I have to watch the onigiri scene one more time. I might miss something on that scence.
I agree that Maemi seems to know exactly what he needs especially in 1st epidode about a ladder, a sticky note etc. However, I thought that Ren was the one who told Maemi what he likes and refused to eat what she had then. So, the next day she rushed to buy them for him. Unfortunately, she had to eat all of them by herself after seeing XM's onigiri with her heartache..and told XM what kind of onigiri Ren likes..poor girl. That's why we saw a romance pool scence between Ren/XM.

But I still don't get it about XM being just a toy for him. Except for his first intention to get her as a company's model in order to fix a situation in Shanghai and the scence that he grabed her neck, he proposed her, intent to introduce to his mother, opened his desire toward her in public, helped her father and mother to reunion..bla..bla, I just think that he wanted to have her with him for real. Of course, it might not be from a true love and only to fill a hole in his heart from his past (that it's still unclear) but it's obvious that it's from his aggressively desire for her.. like a child who doesn't want to share something to others... Oh, I got it.. that's why you mentioned about being a toy.

Well..we will not know his true feeling until the last minute of the last episode, right?
That is really tortured!!
Thanks!.. it's a nice discussion :)

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 21st, '10, 01:00

Something I meant to ask before...there has been mention of Rensuke and XM at the airport when she left for Shanghai. I did not see a scene like this. When did this appear please??

Peggy

nnnc
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Post by nnnc » Jun 21st, '10, 03:06

Peggy wrote:Something I meant to ask before...there has been mention of Rensuke and XM at the airport when she left for Shanghai. I did not see a scene like this. When did this appear please??

Peggy
Both of them were not at the airport. Xiu Mei called him before she left when he was with his mother at the restaurant.
lvtk wrote:
I agree that Maemi seems to know exactly what he needs especially in 1st epidode about a ladder, a sticky note etc. However, I thought that Ren was the one who told Maemi what he likes and refused to eat what she had then. So, the next day she rushed to buy them for him. Unfortunately, she had to eat all of them by herself after seeing XM's onigiri with her heartache..and told XM what kind of onigiri Ren likes..poor girl. That's why we saw a romance pool scence between Ren/XM.
But when Ren saw Xiu Mei's first batch of Onigiri left in his office by Maemi, he thought it was made by Maemi and he ate them even though those were not mentaiko. That's why he told Maemi during their tempura dinner to improve her cooking skill. He just acted tough in front of Maemi and acted like he doesn't care but he still ate them when he was alone.
From his latest blog, I think the 8th episode will be the final

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 21st, '10, 05:42

nnnc,

thank you for solving that little problem. I remembered the phone conversation but I quite misunderstood the mention of an airport goodbye in another posting elsewhere.

Got to get details with this drama!!!

Peg

lvtk
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Post by lvtk » Jun 21st, '10, 11:26

nnnc wrote:
But when Ren saw Xiu Mei's first batch of Onigiri left in his office by Maemi, he thought it was made by Maemi and he ate them even though those were not mentaiko. That's why he told Maemi during their tempura dinner to improve her cooking skill. He just acted tough in front of Maemi and acted like he doesn't care but he still ate them when he was alone.
From his latest blog, I think the 8th episode will be the final
Oh..yes, I forgot that.. Thanks!
If there would be only 8 episodes, so there would be a slim chance seeing what we want to see.. too bad then!

jesamine
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Post by jesamine » Jun 21st, '10, 11:42

I just read his blog and it does seem like its coming to an end, I'm now dying to know how it will end after reading everyone's comments and thoughts.

Btw, completely OT, does anyone notice that in all of Kimura Takuya's dramas, he _always_ says he likes mentai ko in his onigiri, even way back in Love Generation, he must really like it irl too.

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Post by joisuramu » Jun 21st, '10, 18:40

I'm not too sad that the drama is coming to an end....but rather sad that his blog will end soon too.... I've been hooked on it ever since. :cry:

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Post by nnnc » Jun 21st, '10, 19:08

jesamine wrote:I just read his blog and it does seem like its coming to an end, I'm now dying to know how it will end after reading everyone's comments and thoughts.

Btw, completely OT, does anyone notice that in all of Kimura Takuya's dramas, he _always_ says he likes mentai ko in his onigiri, even way back in Love Generation, he must really like it irl too.
Not sure about mentaiko but it's been mentioned several times by himself and other SMAP members that he likes Inari sushi.

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Post by SunSama » Jun 21st, '10, 23:08

20centuryboy wrote:
nnnc wrote: Still, I'm willing to bet $$$$ that ep6 is not the end of Xiu Mei. She will show up again and probably be the one who ends up with Rensuke.
I bet my pants that she will end up with Sai Kazami ( he speaks chinese, remember?) and Kimu Taku will end up with Shinohara Ryoko.
The cold hearted businessman Kimutaku will start from scratches a smaller company and will become a warm hearted man with the help of Shinohara Ryoko. At least, that's the typical Kimutaku drama end plot you can expect.
The one thing I can't fix in my mind is the reason for Kazami to be acting as he is at this particular time. Was he always a bad guy? did he always mean to challenge Rensuke and ruin him? Or is it that Regolith is moving into China and for some reason he hates this happening. After all he is supposed to be born Chinese. It's still a mystery to me.
I only watched 4 episods ( I follow the timeless sub version) but obviously, you can guess that Kazami is a Hazuki Rensuke disciple: he acts like Ren would have. And he's here to teach him a lesson wich is " become the good guy all the female watchers expect you to become so they can cry at the end of the drama". :mrgreen:
I want the writer to be consistent and true to the story she has created instead of letting the audience dictate where it should go. If Ren/Maemi was their original intention, i'm baffled as to why they spent 6 episodes developing Ren/Xiu Mei. This seemed like a good idea? Really?
This is a drama, you're suposed to have some surprise at the end. Actually, I see the Ren/Maemi romance comming since the first episode.
As long the surprise is not like "Karei naru Ichizoku" ... that is fine!

I still go for Ren/Maemi at the end. He has never said I love you to XM but every time is talking to Maemi he avoids the conversation about revealing his feelings...the only time he said something was under pressure

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Post by «minah» » Jun 21st, '10, 23:53

I've been reading this thread for a while.. and I think I'm like the only one who thinks he really has no romantic connection with anyone. That's what it seems like to me anyway. Rensuke seems to be using Xui Mei and just wants to keep Maemi around because he knows he can count on her.

I dunno, but I think it's pretty weak for a romantic drama. The only "romance" is see is all this one-sided stuff. Maemi, Keiko's character (I forgot her name >_<) and Xui Mei likes Rensuke (not sure if Xui Mei truly likes him since she said before she wants revenge but I dunno...) and Kazami seem to like Maemi. And in return.. I don't really see Rensuke liking any of those three girls. Like really wanting to be with them... and it just seems like his character that he was always alone and never opened his heart to anyone. And well, I still don't see him doing it. It comes off as he's trying to use people as best as he can. But it's only my perception of it.

I wish Keiko's character was a bit more significant... me love her >_<! She just seem... like she really isn't that much needed in the show. Honestly I rather watch the events of the company than the "romantic" aspect of the show because I just really don't see any true romance that's going anywhere....

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Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 22nd, '10, 00:25

"This is a drama, you're suposed to have some surprise at the end.
For me, a good ending is one that is consistent to what has come before it and gives the characters a resolution that is true to the hardships they faced and the decisions they made. A shocking, come out of nowhere, WTF ending is not something I consider satisfying. Again, that's just me.
"Actually, I see the Ren/Maemi romance comming since the first episode."
Sure, people assumed that there would be some Ren/Maemi romance but certainly not because the story itself gave them any concrete reason to believe that. A lot of it had to do with the actress chosen to portray Maemi being so well known, people expected her to be the romantic lead.

If Ren had spent 6 episodes falling for Maemi and then abruptly changes his mind and decides Xiu Mei is the one he wants (Even though we saw nothing to even HINT that this was the case) people would be livid. Doing so at this late stage in the game will appear abrupt, nonsensical, and simple pandering to the audience.
" who can turn him into a good/generous/caring guy we all expect him to become at the end of the drama?"
Wasn't she in his life when he turned into the manipulative bastard he is now? If she hasn't turned him back into a generous caring guy in all the time she's been by his side, I think it's time to call it a night.

In my opinion no one can turn or change Ren into a better person, only he can do that for himself. But someone can motivate him to want to strive for something better and the person who has been shown to be doing that is Xiu Mei.

He took care of her parents and refrained from telling her simply because he didn't want her to be hurt if it didn't work out. He reluctantly confessed this to Maemi so he had nothing to gain from saying it. Ren even apologized to Xiu Mei for keeping this from her. Ren...apologizing....does not compute! But he did it for her.

From what I see Xiu Mei is the one person that makes him want to be someone better than he is now, if only for the simple selfless reason that he wants to make her happy. But he doesn't think he can do it. He's too far gone to give Xiu Mei what she deserves.

I thought Ren was being selfish when he proposed to Xiu Mei . He knows that he can't give her what she needs but he did it anyway because he wants to keep her with him. So I was happy that in Episode 6 he stood back and let her go, even though it obviously killed him. That proved to me that he loves her. He put her above his own desperate need of her.

If this drama finishes next week, I think Ren should end up alone. But if we do have 4 episodes left, lthey can convincingly show him change his mind about that and go after Xiu Mei.

I can't even begin to consider Ren/Maemi as a possibility because it's just absurd to me. My head would hurt from trying to come up with a way that they can make this happen without negating every thing that came before it.
Last edited by AndLoveYelledNO on Jun 22nd, '10, 00:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 00:48

Sun sama.

Don't understand your comment re Kazami and why he is bent on ruining Rensuke.

You are mixing fact and fiction. I am talking about Kazami in the drama and why he is so vicious and why he wants to do so many things against Rensuke and his plans. I don't think Kazami knows anything about pleasing those of us who are watching. He is not a real character...he is a fictional person in the drama.

Either he is naturally always against Rensuke from the time he went to work for him...or else there is some strange reason to do with entering the Shanghai/Chinese market with Regolith.

Peg

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Post by jesamine » Jun 22nd, '10, 01:13

After reading everyone's comments, AndLoveYelledNo, you said it best.

I wonder if I'm actually watching the same drama as most viewers because I happen to see that Ren do loves XM in most of the things he has done involving her, not sure why a lot of viewers think he doesn't.

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Post by naokii » Jun 22nd, '10, 03:06

I totally agree with AndLoveYelledNo. I always believed that he had feelings for Xu Mei, and when i watched episode 6 I knew that he really liked her. I don't think that she was only using him because she knew that he somewhat changed. I'm really disappointed that she left. She never ran away from her problems until now. I think she should of confronted him about it. Episode 6 shouldn't be the end of her. Shes been here for 6 episodes and it'll just be completely dumb if she left and if he suddenly realizes his feelings for Maemi. Or so i think. The only thing that makes me frustrated is the name of the next episodes. How shocking/unexpected can the ending be? Oh the important realization in the previews, It kindof sounds to me as if it's the parting of Ren and Maemi. It really throws me off and how there isn't one bit of Xu Mei in the previews.


IMO. v
There are so many people who are oppose to the coupling of ren/xumei. I honestly don't get it. I watched this drama without knowing who any of the casts were, what other dramas they were in. (Sadly I had no clue who Kimura Takuya was or who Shinohara Ryoko was) Maybe that's why I don't see why Maemi being together with Ren considering how the drama is going.. I wonder if i'm even watching the same drama as everyone else . :(. So basically when i watched it i knew she was the supporting actress but now that i read other people's opinions I don't even know anymore.. I love the chemistry between Xu Mei and Ren. I don't see any chemistry between him and Maemi at all. It just seems as if they're really comfortable together. The actress did a really good job portraying Maemi but I thought it was quite obvious that she wasn't going to be Ren. If say the directer/producers or whatever. are going to the change the plot and have it Maemi and Ren for the sake of the viewers that would be totally absurd. They focused 6 episodes on Xu Mei, isn't it too late for her to leave now? I believe that this drama is suppose to make us confused and to keep pondering until the end. I still don't know what to believe or who he is going to end up with. Honestly I can see the drama going both ways. They can change it so that Maemi ends up with him. Although it won't be one bit convincing since all of the scenes he had with Xu Mei. SIGHHHH * :( I'm so caught up into this drama, I guess we just have to wait until the end.. <3 this drama. & I probably contradicted myself but this is just what i think. I really just hope they don't screw up the ending. D: i'm patiently waiting for the next episode and it's truly killing me

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 03:33

I have seen every drama and every film that Kimura made, and I can't ever remember so much discussion about any of them especially during the making of the episodes. I suppose you could say that this makes it a success. I wonder what the final rating would be. Not that ratings have any meaning for me but it's interesting.
I also wonder if Kimura enjoyed the making of this drama. He certainly said he did not like the character of his role. did not like this man at all.

Peggy

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Post by jesamine » Jun 22nd, '10, 03:40

I'm actually curious to know what the Japanese people think of LCL, apparently she's starring in SMAPS new MV where she danced with Kimura.

I think among all his dramas, correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first one featuring a non-Japanese co-actress.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 04:32

I never really thought about that but I don't remember any other than a Japanese actress.
I'll have to check. I only remember him doing those rather risque photos for AnAn with a non Asian girl. At that time no Asian could do such poses. Great photos however.....

I have always wished that Kimura would do a drama with the Korean actress Kim Ha Neul. She is a splendid actress in many different genres. She is rather beautiful and I think her height would be right for him. I have seen her being very plain and quiet and then extremely glamorous and feisty. She is a good actress.

Peggy

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Post by seirin » Jun 22nd, '10, 04:53

Well, there are many good Korean actresses around actually. Since the character is a model, maybe they should have made her Korean instead and used Jeon Ji Hyun. She's tall, pretty and she can act fairly well. I think if the actress was better, I would root for her even if the character wasn't that well written. For example if it was between JJH and Shinohara actress, I would have been okay with either ending up with Rensuke. When LCL says Kisama, it hurts my ears and I cringe. However I think if JJH said it, I would have thought it was fiesty like my girl and it would have been okay.

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Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 22nd, '10, 05:06

"I wonder if I'm actually watching the same drama as most viewers because I happen to see that Ren do loves XM in most of the things he has done involving her, not sure why a lot of viewers think he doesn't"
Hi! Nice to have someone else to talk about this couple with :wub:
I'm quite confused by this as well but I guess we all just have different perspectives. To me, it's crystal clear that Ren has fallen in love with her. Instead of sending Xiu Mei back to China after the press began gossiping about their relationship, he refused. Even though that's what would have been best for the company.
Remember the fit of jealousy a few episodes ago? That was really something since he's always so in control of his emotions.
And man, I love the way he's always staring at her with longing and wonder. Even when she was asleep on his couch, he couldn't keep his eyes off her for very long and was smiling to himself. Speaking of which, have you seen him smile and be happy around any other character?

For me Episode 6 pretty much sealed it. I'll put pictures under a cut :)
She's like the only ray of light in his life. And I love that it is her whom he seeks comfort from. No, not by jumping on top of her and having sex but like this:
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When they were saying their goodbyes and he was explaining that he couldn't be the guy that she needs....did you see the tears in his eyes? How the pain was so overwhelming that he just had to hang up right after saying it? How it took him a while to put himself back together and go to his mother, whom he was having her meet!
Kimura was amazing in this scene. He doesn't have to sob or curl into a ball to convey complete and utter heartbreak.
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Throughout the drama, Ren has been obsessed with keeping Xiu Mei with him. He even told her before, "I don't care if you hate me, I don't care if you resent me, I want you". He wanted her, needed her, and that's all that mattered. So him letting her go, even though that's the last thing he wants to do , so she can find some happiness was probably his most selfless act to date and shows that he really is changing.

I'm also confused as to why some doubt Xiu Mei's feelings. Yes, she intended to get revenge ages ago but that fell through almost as soon as she thought of it. Whether she wanted to or not, she fell for him once she saw there was good in him. Because he showed her that part of himself.
" I'm really disappointed that she left. She never ran away from her problems until now. I think she should of confronted him about it."
That would have been great but I guess the writers just wanted to have her leave asap. It felt rushed *sigh*
"How shocking/unexpected can the ending be? Oh the important realization in the previews, It kindof sounds to me as if it's the parting of Ren and Maemi. It really throws me off and how there isn't one bit of Xu Mei in the previews. "
The previews are often misleading. Last time they had him saying "marry me" and they showed Maemi's face right after that. I thought it was funny because obviously he was going to be saying that to Xiu Mei but the previews wanted us to believe otherwise. So don't freak out :)
It is disappointing that there was no shot of Xiu Mei but that doesn't mean she's gone from the drama or that she wont be in the episode at all. We need to hold on to some hope!

It's so frustrating not to know how many episodes there are! Is it 7 or 10?! Next week will probably be all about the company so I doubt there will be much romance. Unless it IS the final episode...
naokii, i'm glad you're here! So we don't have to feel like we're crazy alone :D
There are others out there who feel the same way we do (I've come across them) but they just aren't much active in the fandom because....well, we're outnumbered.

I came into this only knowing who Kimura is (He's amazing and you should check out his other dramas like Pride and A million stars falling from the sky. He plays dark characters like Ren really well). I didn't come here with any favorites so I just watched and let the characters speak to me. And damn, the chemistry between Ren/Xiu Mei is just sizzling! Their scenes together became the highlight of every episode for me.

I honestly just find it hard to believe it was meant to be Ren/Maemi all along because...the story doesn't support that! At all! If they would have had Ren showing some romantic interest in Maemi THEN I could buy it. But they haven't. Why if indeed they were suppose to be the OTP?
Honestly, if it ends with the two of them it's just going to seem like they changed it because that's what most of the audience wants. Oh well, let's see what happens!

I too am obsessed and this week hiatus is KILLING me :(

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 05:33

I can only think of two films where Kimura did scenes with non Japanese actresses. One was in '2046' where he was in love with the Chinese girl who became a robot/android and also in that there was Christina Lau(?) and he did a very hot scene with her.
Then he was in that 'I come with the Rain'film and did a very short appearance and was with the director's wife but you can't really say these are leading roles and his actual performances were so short. He did make strong impressions on both directors in these two films, however, they did not realise they were handling a rare personality and fine actor.

Like everyone else I am anxious to see the ending of this drama. I do think it will be the end but it may be longer than the other episodes. I really want to see more episodes and make the drama longer but at the same time I want to see HOW it ends !!!!

Peggy

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Post by Anon. » Jun 22nd, '10, 12:50

I guess to Xiu Mei/Rensuke fans, it seems like RenxMaemi fans are grasping at straws. That may be true...or not. Perhaps it all depends on the way the drama was actually viewed. I agree with some of the others (or the other person) who had seen RenxMaemi from the get-go. They have their own moments -- not explicitly romantic like with Xiu Mei and Rensuke, but still existent and ever present.

This is a romance drama between one guy and his relationship with three ladies. It's not a romance drama between one guy and one girl. Right now, the only relationships existent from many of the Xiu Mei supporters here, are:

Rensuke and Xiu Mei --> mutual then one-sided (?) Rensuke --> Xiu Mei

Yuzuki --> one-sided

Maemi --> one-sided

So. The way it's looking to me right now...it's as if it's just a love story between Rensuke and Xiu Mei. If looking like that from the beginning was the main intention, why at all mention the other two female co-stars as romantic candidates? What would be the point? If nothing ever started (if nothing existed between Ren and Yuzuki or Maemi) then this drama was all about Xiu Mei.

If that was seriously the case, I really doubt that they would have set this drama up to look the way it did: with the preview and plot summary and all the commotion about KimuTaku and Shinohara Ryoko. Perhaps they were trying for conventional romance with a twist. But I doubt it. If relationships between the other two female leads are non-existent, than this drama is simply about Xiu Mei and Rensuke. Really? I mean, we've been watching that couple for six episodes now and it does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling to watch. Instead, I find myself wondering exactly how their relationship would work if they got married. The language barrier? I mean, even if her Japanese is understandable, there would inevitably be a time where Rensuke would not be able to convey something important to her or there would be a number of times where that happened...and I see him exploding or just leaving. Rensuke seems to treat Xiu Mei as if she was his first love. He's attached to her. And has no idea what to do and what not to do. He is overprotective and needy at times. It's like he HAS to be with her, which honestly has me wondering whether he's actually in love with her or the concept of her? Of having a family who doesn't betray you?
Those tears in his eyes could just as easily have been tears of betrayal as tears of love. He is a man obsessed with getting things the way he wants it. I think many viewers forget that. He is ruthless and cutthroat. Even if Xiu Mei was the most wonderful person in the world -- she could not change that in him that drastically in such a short period of time. Perhaps he genuinely was upset that he lost his love. Or perhaps he was upset that another person was leaving him alone.

That off my chest, for now at least, it DOES make more sense if Xiu Mei ends up with Ren only IF...I'll start ranting about that in a minute. That said, I have quite a bone to pick with the producers. If it does end up as Ren with Maemi there will be (quite a number of) people that will be outraged. If not in Japan, then at least on this forum. If it does not end up like that and ends up as Xiu Mei and Ren then I'm pretty sure there will be a number of angry people...but I'm almost certain sure they won't be outraged. After all, they can't. This hasn't been coming from the beginning. And if nothing happens, then maybe it really was non-existent. Either way, the producers have put RenxMaemi fans in a spot. If it happens, then it's imbecilic because it wasn't existent. And if it doesn't happen, well who cares? It wasn't existent.

If there were supposed to be three female candidates, at LEAST make it so that anyone can end up with him. Not overwhelmingly one person. =.=

Which brings me back to my first point. If relationships between the other two female leads are non-existent, than this drama is/was simply about Xiu Mei and Rensuke.

I believe that three female characters were created for the sole reason of creating conflict in the drama. Enough that by they end no one should know who gets the main character.

The way it's going now, it's WAY too obvious that it should be Xiu Mei. The only reason anyone has bother supported Ren and Maemi is because Maemi is Shinohara Ryoko. AND she's the main lead. Not to mention (and I will), she is in a completely different league than the Taiwanese actress. Even I can see that their chemistry is great and I may have known about Kimura before, but I, even though I'd seen her in a couple of dramas, did not know that Shinohara Ryoko was famous/popular. Honestly, if you can't see it...well, I won't continue but I mean...really? You don't have to agree there's romance, but there is chemistry, at least between those two actors.

If the point of her in this drama was just to be a good friend to Rensuke and support the relationship between Xiu Mei and Ren, then I can with full certainty say that the only reason that she was cast as the female lead was because of the aforementioned reasons above. And that is a complete and utter disappointment. For a producer to just put her in so that he could bring in high ratings? That's just annoying. Even if she wasn't supposed to end up with Rensuke, at least they could make the moments between them definite enough so that even a Xiu Mei and Ren supporter could see them. Instead, it seems overwhelmingly to be the other way around. If Maemi's character really ends up as the one supporting those two, then it goes without saying that she should not have been the female lead (despite her brilliant skills as an actress).

I'm not saying that in order for this drama to be perfect, Maemi has to win. Far from it.

What I'm saying is just that...just as nonsensical it is for Maemi to end up with (O__O" I almost wrote Xiu Mei) Rensuke, it's JUST as nonsensical for Rensuke to end up with Xiu Mei. If not in the plot line, then by the actual structure of the drama.

With that said, I hope Yuzuki wins. The relationship between Yuzuki and Rensuke seems even less existent than that between Maemi and Rensuke (at least, not in terms of supporters -- who may very well have excellent evidence, despite it all being circumstantial). Which brings me back to my first gripe: what was the point of these other two leads? What, to support Rensuke? To show how he changes from cold and evil to kind and warmhearted? I hope that clip shown in the preview for episode seven with Yuzuki is something big. Maybe then we can finally see some TRUE romantic conflict instead of girls just pining after Rensuke. :|

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jun 22nd, '10, 13:33

Anon. wrote: If that was seriously the case, I really doubt that they would have set this drama up to look the way it did: with the preview and plot summary and all the commotion about KimuTaku and Shinohara Ryoko. Perhaps they were trying for conventional romance with a twist. But I doubt it. If relationships between the other two female leads are non-existent, than this drama is simply about Xiu Mei and Rensuke. Really? I mean, we've been watching that couple for six episodes now and it does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling to watch. Instead, I find myself wondering exactly how their relationship would work if they got married. The language barrier? I mean, even if her Japanese is understandable, there would inevitably be a time where Rensuke would not be able to convey something important to her or there would be a number of times where that happened...and I see him exploding or just leaving.
I didn't saw the preview nor am I a Maemi Fan but strictly looking this drama from the structure point of view, I think that this drama is mainly about Ren character. The character's got to evolve at the end of the drama ( other way, he would be a nice guy from the start) and who can make it?

2 characters can do it. The Kitagawa Keiko can turn him into someone worth ( he would be the same ass***e but in a bigger company so probably a bigger ass***e ). The Maemi character can turn him into someone better because she has what he lacks. But the Xiu Mei can't change him into anything else so I think the scenarist will turn this character down for the romantic issue.
Last edited by 20centuryboy on Jun 22nd, '10, 14:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by thorned_sakura » Jun 22nd, '10, 14:13

i don't think it would be so much of a problem if ren's true feelings will only be revealed at the last episode. remember strawberry on the shortcake?(well, that is if you've watched it) The entire time, we've thought that manato was the only one in love with yui--his stepsister--since yui was in love with his bestfriend only to find out at the second half of the last episode that yui was actually also in love with manato, but was simply hiding it.

anyway, my point is that it is not yet too late to hope for a renxmaemi ending. right now, the story could really go anywhere at this point of time. i just hope that when they do decide to make it a renxmaemi pairing in the end, they'd be able to give us a reasonable set up, and not throw it out without any sort of justification whatsoever.

also, i'm an obvious renxmaemi shipper and i would just like to clarify something with regards to my chosen pairing. some of you have said that the reason why we renxmaemi shippers believe in that pairing was simply because we felt it was logical for the actor takuya and the actress shinohara to end up together, given that they are big names in the japanese entertainment industry. however, i have never heard of shinohara prior to watching this drama...the reason i decided to follow this drama was because three of my fave actors are in it, namely: takuya, keiko and matsuda. if i should follow your line of thinking, then i would have been shipping for takuyaxkeiko or keikoxmatsuda.

so why did i opt for the renxmaemi pairing?it was because of the pacing of the storyline, or in musical term, its arrangement. even with ren and maemi's relationship not going anywhere past friendship stage and ren and xumei's romance getting deeper, the production team were still very careful to give maemi strategic scenes--something you won't see with a mere supporting role. this careful consideration to maemi's character is not something that i've seen in the other two female leads. the character xumei's exposure only depends on ren's character while the growth of yuzuki character leans more on her conflicting relationship with her father and her interest in ren. Also, only maemi's character was given a choice for her love interest in the form of kazami. This solidifies her claim on the female lead since only female leads are given a choice ,so to speak. besides, this was suppose to be an adult love story and somehow, i find ren and xumei's romance a bit childish.

still, i'm not really closing my doors on other possibilities and i'd still like this drama regardless of who takuya'll end up with. despite rants of others regarding poor script and casting, i think the prod team did a great job. after all, the story is confusing and frustrating enough to have quite a number of people rant about it in this page!^_^

also, please don't regard my discussion here as an attack on renxxumei shippers. i am merely trying to prove my point. for all we know, i could be wrong...this is only my opinion. thanks and peace!^_^

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jun 22nd, '10, 14:44

Damn, so many people never heard about Shinohara Ryoko before? You'll have to watch "at home dad" or "anego" or "hanayome wa yakudoshi"...

She's a little like Kimura Takuya: she always acts the same way.

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Post by thorned_sakura » Jun 22nd, '10, 17:17

20centuryboy wrote:Damn, so many people never heard about Shinohara Ryoko before? You'll have to watch "at home dad" or "anego" or "hanayome wa yakudoshi"...

She's a little like Kimura Takuya: she always acts the same way.
i don't know...i don't think takuya acts the same way...

anyway, in my case, i've not heard of shinohara before because the dramas i've watched so far were the ones for younger audiences...like gokusen and hyd...that's why i'm only familiar with the younger cast members...in fact, takuya is probably the only actor in his age group that i'm familiar with and actually follow...

because of this drama, i'm actually starting to get interested with shinohara and am even planning to dl some of her dramas in the near future...seems like another dramathon coming up!^__-

anyway, i think xumei's departure wasn't a rushed decision by the crew...in fact, i felt that she would have to leave eventually for ren to understand her worth (or lack thereof) in his life...i felt that it would either be her or maemi who would have to leave at some point in the drama...but i'm sure that it won't be the last time that we'll see her...she'll come back and try to regain her relationship with ren...though what ren's response will be I still don't know...

lvtk
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Post by lvtk » Jun 22nd, '10, 17:46

On "Moon Walker" blog, there will be scences at Mt. Fuji, a log cabin, and at the river (sorry, I can't read Japanese language), all seem back to the nature. I remember that XM mentioned about living with the one she loves in a small villege, where water striders are living in clean water.

I wonder if it will be a place that Ren is finding his happiness with XM, or it's a place that he will find out "himself" and his happiness with someone else?

AndLoveYelledNO
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Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 22nd, '10, 17:49

I agree with some of the others (or the other person) who had seen RenxMaemi from the get-go. They have their own moments -- not explicitly romantic like with Xiu Mei and Rensuke, but still existent and ever present.
So. The way it's looking to me right now...it's as if it's just a love story between Rensuke and Xiu Mei. If looking like that from the beginning was the main intention, why at all mention the other two female co-stars as romantic candidates? What would be the point? If nothing ever started (if nothing existed between Ren and Yuzuki or Maemi) then this drama was all about Xiu Mei.
I didn't pay attention to the promotion for this drama so I can't say anything about it :X But regardless of how it was promoted or what was said, the story here is what matters.
Ren/Maemi most certainly do have a relationship but that of friends and coworkers. It hasn't gone beyond that in any way, shape, or form. So for me, the story has not led me to believe that anything would happen there between them. That's not to say it won't but in 6 episodes, there has been no hint that this is where they are taking it. So putting them together now would not seem like a natural or gradual conclusion. How can it? There's just not enough time to change that in any believable way, imo.
The language barrier? I mean, even if her Japanese is understandable, there would inevitably be a time where Rensuke would not be able to convey something important to her or there would be a number of times where that happened...and I see him exploding or just leaving.
It's not like she can barely understand the language. They've communicated just fine up till now so I don't really see that as an issue. The very few times when she didn't understand something, he didn't explode and walk away. Even that one time when she wrote his name wrong, he teased her about it and then hugged her. If you love someone, you're not going to leave them because their Japanese isn't perfect
He's attached to her. And has no idea what to do and what not to do. He is overprotective and needy at times. It's like he HAS to be with her, which honestly has me wondering whether he's actually in love with her or the concept of her? Of having a family who doesn't betray you?
His feelings for her are certainly very intense and of course are open to interpretation. Yours may very well be very valid.
If he just wants a family/someone who won't betray him, why hasn't he fallen for Maemi? If anyone has been loyal to him throughout all these years, it's her. Putting up with all his BS and not saying anything about it. Always taking on whatever job he inconsiderately drops on her lap.

I think Xiu Mei was this hurricane that shook him up in a way he hasn't been in a long time, if ever. A courageous woman full of passion and selfless kindness. One who will not compromise her morals for anything or anyone. She's the complete opposite of who he is but represents all that he wants to be. All that he needs. As the lyrics go, "You are everything I want because you're everything I'm not"

Even if Xiu Mei was the most wonderful person in the world -- she could not change that in him that drastically in such a short period of time. Perhaps he genuinely was upset that he lost his love. Or perhaps he was upset that another person was leaving him alone.
I disagree [what a surprise ;)] I don't think it's been drastic at all. Drastic would have been if at that moment he had dropped everything and gone after her. That wouldn't have been believable at all because the story has shown that he's not at that stage yet. He's still struggling with his demons.

One of the reason I interpreted it this way is because of the dialogue. He flat out told her that he wants to make her happy but doesn't think he can change who he is in order to make that happen. But the fact that he's letting her go despite his need of her tells me the exact opposite. He can change. He is changing, slowly but surely. And it is his feelings for Xiu Mei that are allowing that to happen.

And let's not forget that he confessed this to Maemi before, reluctantly might I add. That he wants to make Xiu Mei happy and doesn't want to let her go. He also told Maemi that he refrained from informing Xiu Mei about her parents because he didn't want her to suffer if it didn't work out. Why so much focus on him wanting to make her happy? On him protecting her from being hurt? On him caring about her feelings at all?
Even I can see that their chemistry is great and I may have known about Kimura before, but I, even though I'd seen her in a couple of dramas, did not know that Shinohara Ryoko was famous/popular. Honestly, if you can't see it...well, I won't continue but I mean...really? You don't have to agree there's romance, but there is chemistry, at least between those two actors.
Ryoko is a better actress but I don't really think she's amazing either. Note, i'm only basing this on this drama and she hasn't really been given any challenging work. She's better than LC but not by much. Not to mention she's a native speaker. But LCs acting has not bothered me at all. Sure, she's not mind blowing but she's doing a good job, imo.
They do have chemistry just a different kind. When I see Ren/Maemi together, all I get are vibes of two old friends. There are no romantic sparks there.
Rensuke, it's JUST as nonsensical for Rensuke to end up with Xiu Mei. If not in the plot line, then by the actual structure of the drama.
I partly agreed with you on my previous post. If the drama is to end next week, Ren should end up alone. But if there are 4 more episodes to go, they certainly have enough time to continue to develop Ren's character to the extent that him finally realizing that he CAN be a better person and choosing to give it a go with Xiu Mei will be the natural conclusion.
i don't think it would be so much of a problem if ren's true feelings will only be revealed at the last episode
That sounds terrible to me. What they should have done is shown Ren being somewhat conflicted about his feelings for Maemi. Shown the audience that although he may not fully realize it yet, he does have romantic feelings for her. ANYTHING would have sufficed! But they didn't so now it will appear contrived and like it's coming out of left field. There was just nothing to lead up to that.
it was because of the pacing of the storyline, or in musical term, its arrangement. even with ren and maemi's relationship not going anywhere past friendship stage and ren and xumei's romance getting deeper, the production team were still very careful to give maemi strategic scenes--something you won't see with a mere supporting role. this careful consideration to maemi's character is not something that i've seen in the other two female leads.
What has happened in this story to make the audience believe Ren harbors feelings for Maemi beyond that of friends? Feelings that he will ~suddenly~ wake up to. I'm genuinely asking because I just don't see it.

Considering she's a big name actress, I wouldn't expect her to get a typical supporting role. She's owed a certain amount of screen time. But it's not like her character has been developed or shown to have any storyline outside of Ren so she's not much better off than any of the others. She's worse off actually because she does get all this screen time without substance so it just comes off as pointless and gratuitous.
the character xumei's exposure only depends on ren's character while the growth of yuzuki character leans more on her conflicting relationship with her father and her interest in ren. Also, only maemi's character was given a choice for her love interest in the form of kazami. This solidifies her claim on the female lead since only female leads are given a choice ,so to speak. besides, this was suppose to be an adult love story and somehow, i find ren and xumei's romance a bit childish.
I don't know about Japanese dramas since I don't watch that many of them, but I've seen Korean secondary female leads be given a choicemany times. They always reject the poor guy that wants them for the male lead that doesn't. Then she usually ends up alone, that is after going crazy and trying to destroy the male lead's relationship OR after realizing that he doesn't want her and she needs to move on (The Kdrama Pick the Stars did both :Dl). This formula has been done. And here, it was probably just another excuse to give these two characters something to do. It seems the writers have been at a lost about what to do with them.
also, please don't regard my discussion here as an attack on renxxumei shippers. i am merely trying to prove my point. for all we know, i could be wrong...this is only my opinion. thanks and peace!^_^
Not at all, it's good to have this discussion. I enjoy it :)








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Last edited by AndLoveYelledNO on Jun 22nd, '10, 18:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by seirin » Jun 22nd, '10, 18:01

20centuryboy wrote:Damn, so many people never heard about Shinohara Ryoko before? You'll have to watch "at home dad" or "anego" or "hanayome wa yakudoshi"...

She's a little like Kimura Takuya: she always acts the same way.
I found she was good in Unfair but she does kind of act the similar. She has a certain way of talking and at first I thought it was just in this drama she speaks that way. But when I saw her older dramas it turns out she just speaks that way. With the "ne...pause...ne..pause...ne..."

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Post by anotherfan » Jun 22nd, '10, 18:13

I was a RenMi supporter from the start but I still don't think it really makes sense anymore. In terms of RenXui - well, if it just ends with ep 6 for Xui-Mei, I think it's really quite abrupt. But then again, what has made sense in this drama? I have seen Shinohara in 3 dramas before, so I have known about her. I don't really see her as one of Japanese super popular actresses but I don't follow all that closely to know for sure. I think she's good but she didn't seen to me to have that extra star power. Are the rumors true? Isn't she also getting some of good things out of doing this drama and that's why she agreed to it? If true, i still think it's a good career move for her & her family.

Kazami, I don't understand why he has a vendetta against Regolith-- is it b/c of what happened with his father in the past?

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 19:22

Lovely discussion page and all interesting theories.

I still am so puzzled about Kazami. If it were not for his attentions to Maemi I would entertain the notion that he is in love with Rensuke and has been turned down in the past. Hence the viciousness. Kimura has even joked about this pairing on his radio show, which was very naughty of him.

As for who Rensuke will end up with..I wonder if he will go back into his older self again and start up a new smaller company and concentrate on business sans any woman in a serious place in his life. He is still a tough person and not about to melt away into a homebody even for the ditsy XM. I cannot see her as a permanent person in his life at all.
Rensuke has had a very awkward time with her really. He does not relate to her family and he has caused all sorts of problems in that regard from the very beginning scenes in Shanghai. He definitely does not like Ming. He has no growing warmth at all for that whole group and certainly Kazami embellished the harshness in their treatment all along.

There is nothing softening about Rensuke. Even tho he now knows that the man who resigned, is and always has been devoted to Regolith and him, he still has not reached out to get him back. That's cold.

Seems to me that once Rensuke makes a decision, he does not go back and change it.
I don't see any change in his way of thinking and I don't think he will change his life. If he does... then I give up on whoevever is making this drama. The only person he give any authority to really has been Maemi and he lets her do her thing and agrees with all she wants to do.
The end episode is upon us.

Peggy

joisuramu
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Post by joisuramu » Jun 22nd, '10, 22:22

thorned_sakura wrote:some of you have said that the reason why we renxmaemi shippers believe in that pairing was simply because we felt it was logical for the actor takuya and the actress shinohara to end up together, given that they are big names in the japanese entertainment industry. however, i have never heard of shinohara prior to watching this drama...
Same as you, I didn't know who Shinohara was prior to watching this drama. The sole reason I watch this drama is because Kimura is in it. I didn't know any of the 3 actresses. Although, I have seen LCL modeling for some chinese magazines, but have not seen her act until now. Therefore, I did not become a renxmaemi shipper just because they are well known stars or any bias reasonings.
I was, am, and still think renxmaemi will end up together because I still have faith in the scriptwriter. I know the story hasn't been making any sense unfortunately, but I have a feeling she (the scriptwriter) is trying to develop this chaos on purpose. From the very beginning, it was revealed to us that Ren and Maemi have history together. Whether it's good or bad history, it showed us that they've known each other for a long time. Then all of a sudden, a random Chinese factory girl came along in the story. When Ren said "I want you" to XM on the last scene of the first episode, don't you think it's a bit unbelievable? Even if it's love at first sight, isn't it a bit superficial...I mean..it's only the first episode, and he just met her. From that moment on, I knew this XM character is going to be a complicated one. Then, throughout the rest of the episodes, I was hoping they would at least show us some scenes where they spend more time together to develop this sudden "spark" they have between them, but all we've seen were Ren preventing XM from leaving her hotel room, parting XM from her dad and best friend to save Rogolith's image, and even when Ren proposed to her, it wasn't a happily loving one. I know we did see him somewhat "changed" after he read her diary and knew she wanted to warm his heart. But that whole scene to me was part of XM's plan to "hurt" Ren. She probably left that diary in his room on purpose as a bait so Ren can trust her more. I mean, come on, all this time, she kept that dairy to herself and wouldn't let Ren see it, and then all of a sudden, she accidently left it in his room?? I see her as a very careful person and not innocent at all as it seems to be.
Even if XM have forgotten about her revenge plan (which it didn't show anywhere in the drama) and have really fallen for Ren after what Ren did for her parents, all along, I could see she has been struggling with trusting Ren wholeheartedly. With Ming as her best friend kept telling her "your boss is not trustworthy" she will never come to a state where she have complete faith in Ren. She have also asked Maemi several times if Ren is trustworthy which shows us she still has doubts. After all, they hardly know each other. If you love that person, you also need to TRUST him/her as well. On the other hand, Ming and XM understands and know each other for a long time just like Ren and Maemi. Even though these two pairs are not similar, but what I'm trying to say is that "Trust" they have in common. I don't see the TRUST between RenxXM that is why I'm not sold on them being in love for real. Even if they do end up together, it wouldn't make sense with everything it had happened between RenxMaemi. I see Maemi trusting Rensuke in many ways to the point she doesn't even know why because she loves him. I see Rensuke trusting Maemi with every idea she comes up with even though we know he's a hard to please CEO. So what I don't get is, why is it necessary for them to show us the flash back between RenxMaemi in their college days, Ren knowing she can only cook sunny side up eggs, with XM telling Kazami about the thought of revenge and the story behind the 4 coins, etc if the story is all about RenxXM at the end?? These mysteries have not resolved yet and I believe they were there for a purpose. Hopefully they have not forgotten the story line they have set up initially.

I might have set my hopes too high for this drama. Nonetheless, I really like reading everyone's opinion and how we all see things differently. There's no right or wrong to how we view towards this drama. That's the beauty of this discussion. :-)

thorned_sakura
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Post by thorned_sakura » Jun 22nd, '10, 22:23

I
IQuote:
i don't think it would be so much of a problem if ren's true feelings will only be revealed at the last episode|
That sounds terrible to me. What they should have done is shown Ren being somewhat conflicted about his feelings for Maemi. Shown the audience that although he may not fully realize it yet, he does have romantic feelings for her. ANYTHING would have sufficed! But they didn't so now it will appear contrived and like it's coming out of left field. There was just nothing to lead up to that.|
but it has been done with jdoramas like s.o.s (as i stated in my previous post) or bloody monday 2(not the love story but the revelation of who the hacker is) and this kind of technique is actually effective if explained properly...you'd rewatch the entire series and start to realize the there really were subtle reactions prior to the confession (and japanese dramas are very good with subtleness!hehehe)...and i'm not suggesting that ren only discovers his feelings in the end but that ren knew but was simply hiding them for fear of losing maemi...i think that's usually the case with friends developing feelings for each other..they fear rejection so they end up never telling anyone how they feel...
Anon. wrote:I guess to Xiu Mei/Rensuke fans, it seems like RenxMaemi fans are grasping at straws. That may be true...or not. Perhaps it all depends on the way the drama was actually viewed. I agree with some of the others (or the other person) who had seen RenxMaemi from the get-go. They have their own moments -- not explicitly romantic like with Xiu Mei and Rensuke, but still existent and ever present. |
That's true...renxmaemi and renxxumei shippers will always have conflicting ideas on this story since they are focused on different aspects of it. that's what makes this drama great...right now, everyone's complaining about the script and everything else but i think that's only because the story up to now is still very vague as to its ending, and that irks us all. maybe once this drama is finished, i'll take my time to watch it from beginning to end that way i can enjoy the story and the different levels it presented without being so stressed about its ending. by doing that, i think i'll be able to appreciate this story a bit more...

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Post by Peggy » Jun 22nd, '10, 22:46

Last two posts are really good ones and I agree with what has been written. Maybe it's because I am Ren Maemi person. I still can't see the deep love between Ren and XM.

I just had a thought about the very beginning scenes of this drama. How did Regolith get to know about XM and her sick mother? How did Kazami know about sending men to evict them? How was Ren there with Kazami at the very time XM was tearing after the car to stop the bad guys taking her mother away??? This was a scheme for Regolith to get into the factory system it seems and then get XM...Ren saying 'I want you' was just for the sake of getting XM to publicise the Regolith takeover and get everyone to support that. Making all sorts of promises that were never meant to be kept. He was just lucky to find she was the 'poster girl' for the old factory it seems. She never trusted him from the very beginning and he kept doing things to make her distrust him more and more.

I still think there is a greater link emotionally between Ren and Maemi and it goes back to their college years and I don't think it was just merely a nice friendship. I think they felt a great deal for one another and Ren , being that cold driven man, did not pursue her. She of course let herself love him through the ensuing years and knew all the girls he had were definitely out on the fringes of his attention.
The ending of this drama will be a surprise I think and I don't have a clue about where it is heading.
I did not fall for this drama at the start but now I feel totally engaged with the story and at least two or three of the characters. Can't wait ,but still would like more episodes before the final denouement.

Peg

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Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 22nd, '10, 23:51

When Ren said "I want you" to XM on the last scene of the first episode, don't you think it's a bit unbelievable? Even if it's love at first sight, isn't it a bit superficial...I mean..it's only the first episode, and he just met her.
I didn't read that line as him declaring his love for her. I read it as him being slightly fascinated by her, seeing something special in her that called to him and wanting to use that for his promotional campaign. He wanted her to be his model and in typical Ren fashion, he didn't give a damn whether she objected or not. He would have her.
This moment also foreshadowed how obsessed he would become with keeping her by his side. And the fact that he went from "I want you so you're staying with me whether you want to or not" to "I want you to be happy, I want to be a part of that happiness, but I can't....so i'm letting you go" says it all.
When Ren said "I want you" to XM on the last scene of the first episode, don't you think it's a bit unbelievable? Even if it's love at first sight, isn't it a bit superficial...I mean..it's only the first episode, and he just met her.
She didn't bring up the revenge plot ever again after that episode and I felt it was because by the end of it, she had made up her mind about him. Even when Xiu Mei was with Ming, who came to Japan to bring Ren down, she never brought it up or even joined forces with him which would be the natural thing to do. On the contrary, she defended Ren and was even going to put MIng's life in his hands. That's how much she believed in him.

Even if they do end up together, it wouldn't make sense with everything it had happened between RenxMaemi. I see Maemi trusting Rensuke in many ways to the point she doesn't even know why because she loves him. I see Rensuke trusting Maemi with every idea she comes up with even though we know he's a hard to please CEO.
What exactly has happened between Ren and Maemi? It is possible to be close friends with someone without it automatically meaning that you have repressed feelings for them. And if this is the case for Ren, those feelings would still manifest themselves in some way without him even realizing it. That dinner scene when Maemi showed up with Kazami was the perfect opportunity for Ren to show signs of jealousy or even that he was uncomfortable with the idea of the two of them together. But we got nothing of the sort.
and i'm not suggesting that ren only discovers his feelings in the end but that ren knew but was simply hiding them for fear of losing maemi...i think that's usually the case with friends developing feelings for each other..they fear rejection so they end up never telling anyone how they feel...
My problem with this is that I want to be a part of love's journey, not just its destination. So these two get nothing until the very last episode when out of the blue, with nothing to lead up to it, Ren decides he loves Maemi? A romance that's not shown on screen is not satisfying for me. Especially when it remains one sided till the very end. You can't just go from A to Z, you have to lead up to it.
What clues have the writers included in the story that suggest Ren has suppressed feelings for Maemi? I feel like i'm missing something big that everyone else saw except me but I go back and back and...I still don't see it :scratch:
I still think there is a greater link emotionally between Ren and Maemi and it goes back to their college years and I don't think it was just merely a nice friendship. I think they felt a great deal for one another and Ren , being that cold driven man, did not pursue her. She of course let herself love him through the ensuing years and knew all the girls he had were definitely out on the fringes of his attention.
All speculation and assumptions, and considering how little we have been given in regards to Ren/Maemi I guess we're left with no choice. Love triangles are very common in dramas and even though the couple of my choice may not be endgame, I can still live with it because...hey, it was a love triangle and it could always go either way. But there is no love triangle here. The only two people showing mutual romantic interest in each other are Ren/Xiu Mei. Everything else is one sided.

The whole storyline with Kazami is such a vague mess *sigh* I can't even force myself to care at this point

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Post by Anon. » Jun 23rd, '10, 00:36

I must say...I enjoyed reading the counter-argument. Haha, I think I'm enjoying this too much. But anyways.
AndLoveYelledNO wrote:I didn't pay attention to the promotion for this drama so I can't say anything about it :X But regardless of how it was promoted or what was said, the story here is what matters.
Ren/Maemi most certainly do have a relationship but that of friends and coworkers. It hasn't gone beyond that in any way, shape, or form. So for me, the story has not led me to believe that anything would happen there between them. That's not to say it won't but in 6 episodes, there has been no hint that this is where they are taking it. So putting them together now would not seem like a natural or gradual conclusion. How can it? There's just not enough time to change that in any believable way, imo.
I agree with you...sort of. I actually agree with a lot of what you said previously (which surprises me, I must say). I do believe that they're relationship is that of friends and co-workers. But I also believe that they're relationship is closer than they'd like anyone to believe. In Maemi, Rensuke exhibits a deep amount of trust. Of course, this could be because they're just friends. But a couple of things seem to me, at least, to hint otherwise.
Rensuke had a picture with a small group of people in it...all celebrating. He was staring at it at different points in multiple episodes. But that's not really relevant. Anyways. I believe the people in that picture were the people he created the company with...among them were Kazami and Kijihata Tojo. This group of people...well, we all know what happens to them until only one is left. But I diverge. What I mean to say, is that he trusted not one of those people the same way he trusted Maemi. People who he opened the very company he was CEO with. When Tojo came to him earlier with his solemn prediction of the future of Regolith if things didn't change (namely the working conditions), Rensuke refused to listen to him. Refused obstinately. And then the demise of his company was practically set in stone. Tojo came to Rensuke with valid worries and legitimate concerns that had a worryingly high probability of coming true. And yet Rensuke blows him off. He does things only one way -- the way he likes it, and gives no one freedom to do else-wise. Except Maemi. But Tojo isn't the only one. He is just one example out of many...so for me, the trust issue seems to reveal to me that Rensuke's relationship with Maemi borders on something more than friendship. But then again, there are a multitude of things to prove me wrong.
AndLoveYelledNO wrote: It's not like she can barely understand the language. They've communicated just fine up till now so I don't really see that as an issue. The very few times when she didn't understand something, he didn't explode and walk away. Even that one time when she wrote his name wrong, he teased her about it and then hugged her. If you love someone, you're not going to leave them because their Japanese isn't perfect
Haha, that's a valid point. But what I meant is that it can be extremely frustrating trying to convey an important point to someone when they don't understand...
Like, suppose Rensuke does end up marrying Xiu Mei. And suppose Maemi does not leave or break off her friendship with Rensuke. Xiu Mei already knows Maemi loves Ren. And she also knows that Rensuke trusts Maemi a great deal. If there was some sort of situation to create a misunderstanding that resulted from an awkward scene with Ren and Maemi...well...if Xiu Mei didn't understand what Rensuke was trying to say, that would be a problem wouldn't it? I'm not saying that's what would happen...as it's pretty unlikely. I'm just saying, situations like that arise. And it might not even be Rensuke that leaves, but Xiu Mei, simply because of a misunderstanding.

All in all, I think Xiu Mei really appears childish simply because her Japanese is on that level. I don't doubt it won't progress to a higher level (if she kept studying), but children do end up misunderstanding a lot of stuff. A recent example would be from Shinzanmono.
The son of the murdered woman is estranged because he overheard one phone call. Misunderstood. Left. And didn't talk to her again, ever. It was only after her funeral (a great deal after) that he understood her true intentions.
He was a young teen when that happened. If Xiu Mei's Japanese is really on an elementary level, then it would be extremely easy for her to misunderstand.

Though I apologize. I said Rensuke earlier, I realize now that I should have written Xiu Mei.
AndLoveYelledNO wrote: His feelings for her are certainly very intense and of course are open to interpretation. Yours may very well be very valid.
If he just wants a family/someone who won't betray him, why hasn't he fallen for Maemi? If anyone has been loyal to him throughout all these years, it's her. Putting up with all his BS and not saying anything about it. Always taking on whatever job he inconsiderately drops on her lap.
I actually have almost nothing to say to that. In all frankness, the best thing I can come up with is that he doesn't realize how much she matters to him.

Xiu Mei suddenly appeared to him out of nowhere. She becomes his savior for a number of reasons -- one of the biggest being that she needs him almost as much as he needs her. I think that dependency is what convinces him that he is in love...and ends up being the basis for her being the one who he counts on for not betraying him.

Though I do agree that Rensuke does take Maemi for granted...but that makes me wonder what he'll do when she inevitably (as things are playing out) disappears from his life.

AndLoveYelledNO wrote: I think Xiu Mei was this hurricane that shook him up in a way he hasn't been in a long time, if ever. A courageous woman full of passion and selfless kindness. One who will not compromise her morals for anything or anyone. She's the complete opposite of who he is but represents all that he wants to be. All that he needs. As the lyrics go, "You are everything I want because you're everything I'm not"
I agree with most of that. But I don't believe that she would not compromise her morals. I think she did numerous times. She did for Kazami when he told her to be patient and not confront Rensuke. Whenever he did something morally awful, she threw a fit and then forgave him.
When Rensuke had her mom taken so that she would work for Regolith, of course she didn't know it at the time. But when she found out she was immensely upset (understandably so) and she did almost quit. But when Kazami told her to be patient she compromised her morals so that she could 'conduct' her revenge plan on Rensuke. What Rensuke did was basically blackmail and extortion.
There are other instances which I'm not going to try to seek out because I can barely remember any of them. I'll just skip to one of the most recent ones.
Xiu Mei ends up completely compromising her original position on Shanghai (I remember her saying something along the lines that she would work for Regolith only if Rensuke saved the workers) when she ends up comforting Ren for closing down the Shanghai company to save his own skin. That didn't make sense to me...although, she did redeem herself when she did not leave her friendship with Ming up to dry...but even if she doesn't compromise some of her morals, she compromises others and I'm not sure what that makes her.

I do agree with that last bit you said. I do believe that Xiu Mei is everything Rensuke wants to be...and wants for that matter. What I disagree with is that I don't believe that's what he needs. I remember Dumbledore (ok, I totally hate Harry Potter. But I do like what he said so I'm going to restate it) saying something along the lines of --- Humans want what's the worst for them.
I've kept that quote with me for a while and I've found it to be quite valid. In fact, I haven't actually found a counterargument for it. >.< But I digress. What I intend to say is that even if Xiu Mei isn't the worst for him, I don't believe it's good. Because she doesn't/can't keep him in line. His relationship with Xiu Mei could bring him to new heights. But it could also lead him in a downward spiral of destruction simply because the only person who could keep him in line lets him do nearly anything he wants.

AndLoveYelledNO wrote: I partly agreed with you on my previous post. If the drama is to end next week, Ren should end up alone.
I agree with you there. Completely. I was actually about to write that earlier but thought better of it. I think, if worse comes to worst, that would be the best scenario.

Now on to a different perspective....
joisuramu wrote: On the other hand, Ming and XM understands and know each other for a long time just like Ren and Maemi. Even though these two pairs are not similar, but what I'm trying to say is that "Trust" they have in common.
While I agree with most of what you had there, I don't agree with that. They do have a deep bond but...they definitely can't have trust. Why?
Well because...
Ming stole all of Xiu Mei's money right? Right at the time she needed it the most. Her mother was sick and dying, for crying out loud. She invited him to dinner out of the kindness of her heart and he just steals ALL of her money? Even if he did return some of it later...that's just...not something friends would do. Everything that has ever happened to Xiu Mei...was basically Ming's fault. I believe that Xiu Mei DID have enough money to pay off the creditors...or at least keep them at bay. If she could, then there would have been nothing for Rensuke to take advantage of...though he might've (actually most likely) would have found a way.
AndLoveYelledNO wrote: I didn't read that line as him declaring his love for her. I read it as him being slightly fascinated by her, seeing something special in her that called to him and wanting to use that for his promotional campaign. He wanted her to be his model and in typical Ren fashion, he didn't give a damn whether she objected or not. He would have her.
This moment also foreshadowed how obsessed he would become with keeping her by his side. And the fact that he went from "I want you so you're staying with me whether you want to or not" to "I want you to be happy, I want to be a part of that happiness, but I can't....so i'm letting you go" says it all.
That's exactly the reason I think he's not in love. When you're in love...when you love someone unconditionally, aren't you supposed to put their feelings above everything else? Rensuke puts his company before her. I don't think however twisted Rensuke is...I don't think he's any exception to that rule *in dramas. In real life...that's a different story. But from my knowledge of the countless of j-dramas I've watched...this holds true 100% of the time...and I just saw the last bit of that quote from you. Totally killed my first argument with it. But I'll continue -- Rensuke was faced with a dilemma...to choose between his company and Xiu Mei. And he chose his company. I don't think he really cared about her happiness as much as he cared about his success. And when she left...I believe he felt hurt because he lost the one person he thought loved him.

Maemi once talked about Ren's past with Xiu Mei.

He wanted to be noticed. He wanted his name to be remembered. And he wanted the perfect life. All in that order.

He creates the perfect company to become noticed. He becomes the CEO to be remembered. And he takes what he deems most ideal candidate for his wife.

But somewhere along the lines, I believe he just became obsessed with getting what he wanted...with fulfilling his perfect personal life...enough so that he was blinded to what really mattered and he did whatever he wanted to make sure he got what he wanted. I'm just saying...in general. It's not fair. Not to Maemi. Not to Yuzuki. Not to Xiu Mei even.

He lets Xiu Mei go because his company took precedent. What he wanted even more than a perfect personal life was to be noticed and to have his name remembered. That came with and only with Regolith.
AndLoveYelledNO wrote: What exactly has happened between Ren and Maemi? It is possible to be close friends with someone without it automatically meaning that you have repressed feelings for them. And if this is the case for Ren, those feelings would still manifest themselves in some way without him even realizing it. That dinner scene when Maemi showed up with Kazami was the perfect opportunity for Ren to show signs of jealousy or even that he was uncomfortable with the idea of the two of them together. But we got nothing of the sort.
I don't think Rensuke particularly cared because he hadn't lost Maemi. As I previously stated somewhere in my way-too-long post, I don't think Rensuke realizes Maemi's importance. I believe he was assuming that if Kazami got together with Maemi, everything would be brilliant because Maemi wouldn't leave. She wouldn't have reason too. She would continue to be employed to him because her husband was V.P. From what I've gathered from the story so far, Rensuke is extremely possessive. By securing Maemi at his company, he has no need to worry about losing her -- she'll always be by his side. Not the case for Xiu Mei. She can't work as a model forever, heck, I don't think she could even stay for a year. Thus, I think this is the reason he proposed to her.
Last edited by Anon. on Jun 23rd, '10, 02:40, edited 2 times in total.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 23rd, '10, 01:38

Well I am coming back to my chorus again...WHY is Kazami stirring up the witches potion all this time???

What does he have in his past or in his future that makes him so vicious.?
He has a prestigious position right now so why is he risking everything and maybe destroying Regolith just to ruin Rensuke. He also will be left without a position.

I just feel that he has been casting spells only since the first invasion of Shanghai. Something is there that has made him angry or scared or churned up his hidden hatred of Rensuke. I want to have this resolved just because that is my take on his character and I don't see him doing all this just to push Rensuke out and then he would take over. It would never happen because no-one would accept that. They would all quit if Kazami tried to be the CEO. He doesn't seem to have any close associate in the company and they all know he is Rensuke's hit man..well ...sort of the one who carries out the difficult side jobs.

The things that Ren ordered in his coldblooded way were changed into hateful and brutal situations by Kazami. This started in Shanghai. Why? For some reason Kazami was not in favour of this new store and using a factory in China to make the furniture. From that point on he was picking up on everything that Ren said and did and making it stronger and much worse. For me this does not make any sense unless there is a hidden reason and it has to be something in Kazami's past connections with China.

Well that's what I think.

Anon.
Posts: 76
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Post by Anon. » Jun 23rd, '10, 02:06

Peggy wrote:Well I am coming back to my chorus again...WHY is Kazami stirring up the witches potion all this time???

What does he have in his past or in his future that makes him so vicious.?
He has a prestigious position right now so why is he risking everything and maybe destroying Regolith just to ruin Rensuke. He also will be left without a position.
I doubt that Kazami has a vicious past. I doubt he has any past at all for that matter worth mentioning. The picture of young Kazami in the latest episode *the one where I'm assuming they're celebrating the company...he's happy. Carefree. Wearing sunglasses.

The Kazami now doesn't smile, and if he does, it's just creepy. Not the fun loving way that picture showed his smile to be.

What I think happened in-between the picture and the present is tied in to what happened to Rensuke between the picture and the present. I think that Rensuke became cold-hearted, cut-throat and vicious in terms of the business cycle. I also think that Kazami thought they're relationship to be more of partners and instead he's stuck playing second fiddle to Rensuke, catering to his every selfish whim. The change from what it was supposed to be to what it became would drive anyone up a wall...It would make me incredibly frustrated...but...I mean, most people would let it out from the get-go. Instead, Kazami obviously held it in. I'm speculating that that anger grew out of control -- especially when his own opinions began to conflict with that of his 'boss'. This would have been all resolved if Kazami had spoken his mind when need be, but instead he doesn't say anything, holding it in and causing it to fester. To support this, think about what Kazami always says when something doesn't go someone's way -- Now's not the time. Hold it in and wait.

Or something like that.

I think the hatred that is apparent now is the result of this. A result of non-communication. Communicating is important in every relationship. Sadly it is often the cause of its demise.

Also, I don't think that Kazami wants Regolith destroyed. He just wants Rensuke to be punished...because he's been doing whatever the heck he felt like for so long without any repercussions...and I do believe he feels that the way to best do this is to overtake the company.

In this regard, I don't know if Kazami is actually evil or inherently good. Who can say except the scriptwriter?

For my own opinion, I think he's a sleazeball. :x But that's just me.
Peggy wrote: ...and I don't see him doing all this just to push Rensuke out and then he would take over. It would never happen because no-one would accept that. They would all quit if Kazami tried to be the CEO. He doesn't seem to have any close associate in the company and they all know he is Rensuke's hit man..well ...sort of the one who carries out the difficult side jobs.

The things that Ren ordered in his coldblooded way were changed into hateful and brutal situations by Kazami. This started in Shanghai. Why? For some reason Kazami was not in favour of this new store and using a factory in China to make the furniture. From that point on he was picking up on everything that Ren said and did and making it stronger and much worse. For me this does not make any sense unless there is a hidden reason and it has to be something in Kazami's past connections with China.

Well that's what I think.
Err...from the development so far, I think the only one that would have problems with that would be Maemi. He's been gathering support from episode 1. Every time there's a problem and the employee's are furious at Rensuke, Kazami intervenes telling them to wait. And with every grip that the employees have towards Rensuke, it's one more reason for them to support Kazami -- someone who would actually listen to them for a change and NOT abuse them. From what I've gathered, he's usually the one to pacify the employees.

I'm not exactly sure all this started in Shanghai. I don't know if anyone can because the drama starts in Shanghai. We know absolutely nothing of the development up to that point. For all we know, Kazami could have been festering for a while...bringing me to support my first assumption mentioned above.

But maybe he does have a past? I don't really know. Only time will tell though...but I don't see the scriptwriters using up too much time to reveal this which is why I don't think it's too complicated.

SunSama
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Post by SunSama » Jun 23rd, '10, 04:32

Anon. wrote:
Peggy wrote:Well I am coming back to my chorus again...WHY is Kazami stirring up the witches potion all this time???

What does he have in his past or in his future that makes him so vicious.?
He has a prestigious position right now so why is he risking everything and maybe destroying Regolith just to ruin Rensuke. He also will be left without a position.
I doubt that Kazami has a vicious past. I doubt he has any past at all for that matter worth mentioning. The picture of young Kazami in the latest episode *the one where I'm assuming they're celebrating the company...he's happy. Carefree. Wearing sunglasses.

The Kazami now doesn't smile, and if he does, it's just creepy. Not the fun loving way that picture showed his smile to be.

What I think happened in-between the picture and the present is tied in to what happened to Rensuke between the picture and the present. I think that Rensuke became cold-hearted, cut-throat and vicious in terms of the business cycle. I also think that Kazami thought they're relationship to be more of partners and instead he's stuck playing second fiddle to Rensuke, catering to his every selfish whim. The change from what it was supposed to be to what it became would drive anyone up a wall...It would make me incredibly frustrated...but...I mean, most people would let it out from the get-go. Instead, Kazami obviously held it in. I'm speculating that that anger grew out of control -- especially when his own opinions began to conflict with that of his 'boss'. This would have been all resolved if Kazami had spoken his mind when need be, but instead he doesn't say anything, holding it in and causing it to fester. To support this, think about what Kazami always says when something doesn't go someone's way -- Now's not the time. Hold it in and wait.

Or something like that.

I think the hatred that is apparent now is the result of this. A result of non-communication. Communicating is important in every relationship. Sadly it is often the cause of its demise.

Also, I don't think that Kazami wants Regolith destroyed. He just wants Rensuke to be punished...because he's been doing whatever the heck he felt like for so long without any repercussions...and I do believe he feels that the way to best do this is to overtake the company.

In this regard, I don't know if Kazami is actually evil or inherently good. Who can say except the scriptwriter?

For my own opinion, I think he's a sleazeball. :x But that's just me.
Peggy wrote: ...and I don't see him doing all this just to push Rensuke out and then he would take over. It would never happen because no-one would accept that. They would all quit if Kazami tried to be the CEO. He doesn't seem to have any close associate in the company and they all know he is Rensuke's hit man..well ...sort of the one who carries out the difficult side jobs.

The things that Ren ordered in his coldblooded way were changed into hateful and brutal situations by Kazami. This started in Shanghai. Why? For some reason Kazami was not in favour of this new store and using a factory in China to make the furniture. From that point on he was picking up on everything that Ren said and did and making it stronger and much worse. For me this does not make any sense unless there is a hidden reason and it has to be something in Kazami's past connections with China.

Well that's what I think.
Err...from the development so far, I think the only one that would have problems with that would be Maemi. He's been gathering support from episode 1. Every time there's a problem and the employee's are furious at Rensuke, Kazami intervenes telling them to wait. And with every grip that the employees have towards Rensuke, it's one more reason for them to support Kazami -- someone who would actually listen to them for a change and NOT abuse them. From what I've gathered, he's usually the one to pacify the employees.

I'm not exactly sure all this started in Shanghai. I don't know if anyone can because the drama starts in Shanghai. We know absolutely nothing of the development up to that point. For all we know, Kazami could have been festering for a while...bringing me to support my first assumption mentioned above.

But maybe he does have a past? I don't really know. Only time will tell though...but I don't see the scriptwriters using up too much time to reveal this which is why I don't think it's too complicated.
I have the impression that Kazami's hatred has something to do with his father's situation [I think he got injured at work and got fired from a Japanese company, maybe Regolith?]... Well, who knows!
Last edited by SunSama on Jun 23rd, '10, 13:23, edited 2 times in total.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 23rd, '10, 04:55

Really thanks for taking up this side subject in the drama. I think Kazami is such an interesting man. He is so young but so efficient and such a snake like individual.

I will be a little disappointed if there is no 'there' there with his story. He is on such a quest for himself that I can't help but think there is a reason we have not been told as yet.

We shall have to wait and see.

Peg

AndLoveYelledNO
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Post by AndLoveYelledNO » Jun 23rd, '10, 06:02

Anon. wrote: I agree with you...sort of. I actually agree with a lot of what you said previously (which surprises me, I must say). I do believe that they're relationship is that of friends and co-workers. But I also believe that they're relationship is closer than they'd like anyone to believe. In Maemi, Rensuke exhibits a deep amount of trust. Of course, this could be because they're just friends. But a couple of things seem to me, at least, to hint otherwise.
I didn't mean to imply that they're just casual friends. Sorry if that's what it sounded like I was saying. When they're alone, you can clearly see just how comfortable they are with each other. There's an intimacy there that can only be born after knowing each other for years. Although Ren does keep his distance, it doesn't feel like there's this huge wall separating them like it does between Ren and....everyone else in the company. He trusts her, he relies on her (Why shouldn't he? She always ends up doing whatever he wants) and, most importantly, he opens up to her and seeks her advice.

Could this have turned into a romance? Most definitely. But it didn't and it hasn't.
And yet Rensuke blows him off. He does things only one way -- the way he likes it, and gives no one freedom to do else-wise. Except Maemi. But Tojo isn't the only one. He is just one example out of many...so for me, the trust issue seems to reveal to me that Rensuke's relationship with Maemi borders on something more than friendship. But then again, there are a multitude of things to prove me wrong.
Sorry to cut your quote, I just didn't want to make this post unnecessarily long.
I'm in complete agreement with you. Ren is a very controlling man who makes sure he has a say on every little thing that goes on in this company. But with Maemi, he just leaves it up to her because he knows she will come through. She always does.

But if i'm honest, I just don't see how this equals to Ren having romantic feelings for her. Looking at all this, if Maemi was a man no one would be questioning it. It's that platonic.
Haha, that's a valid point. But what I meant is that it can be extremely frustrating trying to convey an important point to someone when they don't understand...
I just don't think they have shown Xiu Mei having language problems enough times to warrant this concern. The only time I can think of where she was completely lost was at the dinner table (When Ren and Maemi were bickering) and that was because they were speaking too fast.
If there was some sort of situation to create a misunderstanding that resulted from an awkward scene with Ren and Maemi...well...if Xiu Mei didn't understand what Rensuke was trying to say, that would be a problem wouldn't it? I'm not saying that's what would happen...as it's pretty unlikely. I'm just saying, situations like that arise. And it might not even be Rensuke that leaves, but Xiu Mei, simply because of a misunderstanding.
Ah, I understand what you're saying. But again, this is just a what if based on pure speculation on how the characters might react. I can go ahead and say that BECAUSE she knows shes not completely fluent yet, instead of leaving she would ask Ren to continue to explain in more detail.
Plus, misunderstandings happen all the time, even between people whose native language are the same. I've seen enough dramas to know that lol

I actually have almost nothing to say to that. In all frankness, the best thing I can come up with is that he doesn't realize how much she matters to him.
That's fair. And I do think he takes her for granted. Losing her may very well make him realize just how much he relied on her and how much he wants her by his side. But again, I just don't see anything romantic in this and it's because the writers haven't given me a reason to.
Xiu Mei suddenly appeared to him out of nowhere. She becomes his savior for a number of reasons -- one of the biggest being that she needs him almost as much as he needs her. I think that dependency is what convinces him that he is in love...and ends up being the basis for her being the one who he counts on for not betraying him.
I'm glad you're not discounting that he at least believes he loves her. I'm quite baffled by people saying he doesn't care about XM and has no feelings towards her...makes me feel like i'm crazy lol.

If he was going to fall for anyone based on who wouldn't betray him, it would be Maemi. A few paragraphs above we were just discussing how she's the only one in the company that he fully trusts. He would never give free reign to someone whom deep down he believe might possibly stab him in the back. So if he was looking for loyalty, Maemi is the most obvious choice. So why hasn't he fallen for her? Is it because that's not all love requires? Because that's not all he's looking for? Is it because you can't help who you fall in love with...and who you don't?

The only reason Xiu Mei needs him is because he's made it his business to make sure that she does. It's the only way he can be sure that she'll remain by his side. It's pretty twisted but that's what makes it so interesting (To me at least, hehe).
What i'm saying is that he didn't fall for her because she needs him but rather that he forces her to need him because he fell for her. And it is not her need that makes him believe she wouldn't betray him but rather her goodness, her kindness. That's really what first fascinated him about her. That she was willing to fight to the death for her friends, her family, and even complete strangers.
Though I do agree that Rensuke does take Maemi for granted...but that makes me wonder what he'll do when she inevitably (as things are playing out) disappears from his life.
We'll see what happens with that. It seems like he'll be removed from the company so maybe he'll seek Maemi, the only one he has left, for comfort/guidance but this time she won't be there. My problem is that I don't think the writers will be able to successfully transition their relationship from friends to lovers in such a short period of time. If Ren realizes that Maemi is gone and suddenly goes "Oh my god, I love her! Why didn't I realize it before?!" i'm going to laugh, throw popcorn at my screen, and stop watching. It's just absurd because if those feelings had been there all along, even if suppressed, we should have seen some signs of them. However small, however brief.

Their only chance to make this not seem like a huge WTF moment is to do a time jump. And even then i'll be forced to ask....what the hell was the point of spending most of the drama on Ren/Xiu Mei?

I agree with most of that. But I don't believe that she would not compromise her morals. I think she did numerous times. She did for Kazami when he told her to be patient and not confront Rensuke. Whenever he did something morally awful, she threw a fit and then forgave him.
When Rensuke had her mom taken so that she would work for Regolith, of course she didn't know it at the time. But when she found out she was immensely upset (understandably so) and she did almost quit. But when Kazami told her to be patient she compromised her morals so that she could 'conduct' her revenge plan on Rensuke. What Rensuke did was basically blackmail and extortion.
Point taken. For me, i'm not basing that on her brief intention but rather on her actions. Yes, for one episode she planned to get revenge but in the end she didn't go through with it. Even when she had the opportunity to (Ming's plan for example, she could have joined him in bringing down the company.)
Xiu Mei ends up completely compromising her original position on Shanghai (I remember her saying something along the lines that she would work for Regolith only if Rensuke saved the workers) when she ends up comforting Ren for closing down the Shanghai company to save his own skin.
He once talked to her about his dreams and opened her eyes as to why he does the things he does. Xiu Mei understands why he shut it down, even as she fundamentally disagrees with it. So yes she embraced him because this is the end of them, because they're both hurting, and because she loves him. But did she stay? No, she packed her bags and left. So I don't think she compromised her morals at all.
I do agree with that last bit you said. I do believe that Xiu Mei is everything Rensuke wants to be...and wants for that matter What I disagree with is that I don't believe that's what he needs. I remember Dumbledore (ok, I totally hate Harry Potter. But I do like what he said so I'm going to restate it) saying something along the lines of --- Humans want what's the worst for them.
I've kept that quote with me for a while and I've found it to be quite valid. In fact, I haven't actually found a counterargument for it. >.< But I digress. What I intend to say is that even if Xiu Mei isn't the worst for him, I don't believe it's good. Because she doesn't/can't keep him in line. His relationship with Xiu Mei could bring him to new heights. But it could also lead him in a downward spiral of destruction simply because the only person who could keep him in line lets him do nearly anything he wants.
Haven't read Harry Potter {My brother is fanatically obsessed and that has turned me off to it :D ). That's a great quote and I certainly won't even attempt to disprove it :D
But I CAN say that I do believe both women are very important to Ren and they both motivate him to be a better person but in different ways. Just like how he cares deeply for them both but in different ways.
Maemi may advice him to do the right thing but the only reason he would ever actually do it is because of Xiu Mei. And that perfectly sums up for me his relationship with both women. Maemi is his friend, the one who steers him down the right path. But Xiu Mei is the only reason he would ever walk down it. Am I making sense? lol
That's exactly the reason I think he's not in love. When you're in love...when you love someone unconditionally, aren't you supposed to put their feelings above everything else? Rensuke puts his company before her. I don't think however twisted Rensuke is...I don't think he's any exception to that rule *in dramas. In real life...that's a different story..
It's not that simple because love can't possibly just erase all the issues Ren has (And wouldn't it be a very short story if it could?). Love is not this magical thing that cures you and saves you. Heck, often it can actually destroy you. What love CAN do is force Ren to come face to face with said issues. And I think next week we're going to see him do just that. He's going to be left without Xiu Mei and without his company. He'll have to make a choice about which one matters most to him because he can't have both.
But somewhere along the lines, I believe he just became obsessed with getting what he wanted...with fulfilling his perfect personal life...enough so that he was blinded to what really mattered and he did whatever he wanted to make sure he got what he wanted. I'm just saying...in general. It's not fair. Not to Maemi. Not to Yuzuki. Not to Xiu Mei even.
Couldn't agree more.
He lets Xiu Mei go because his company took precedent. What he wanted even more than a perfect personal life was to be noticed and to have his name remembered. That came with and only with Regolith.
I don't think Ren ever made a choice, Xiu Mei made it for him. Before that, he was still trying to have his cake and eat it too. Once the Shanghai factory was shut down, he ran to Xiu Mei and tried to make it all better by telling her he'd help Ming. He was even going to introduce her to his mom!
I think he would have still tried to hold on to her had she not told him that her smiles were only there to hide her pain. He didn't want her to suffer any more because of him, so he let her go. Maybe i'm romanticizing this but that's how I interpreted it. Her departure will make him come to terms with the fact that he can't have both and he WILL have to eventually make a final choice.
I don't think Rensuke particularly cared because he hadn't lost Maemi. As I previously stated somewhere in my way-too-long post, I don't think Rensuke realizes Maemi's importance. I believe he was assuming that if Kazami got together with Maemi, everything would be brilliant because Maemi wouldn't leave. She wouldn't have reason too. She would continue to be employed to him because her husband was V.P. From what I've gathered from the story so far, Rensuke is extremely possessive. By securing Maemi at his company, he has no need to worry about losing her -- she'll always be by his side. Not the case for Xiu Mei. She can't work as a model forever, heck, I don't think she could even stay for a year. Thus, I think this is the reason he proposed to her.
I too believe Ren proposed to her as a way to keep her from leaving. As I said before, I felt it was so selfish of him because he knows that he can't give her what she wants (In that same episode, she told him that her dream was to have a home in a small village where she will live with her parents and the man she loves) and yet he still proposed just because he doesn't want to lose her. I loved that he picked up a picture of her parents (Her dream) right before he popped the question.
So that's why I say that him letting her go so that she can have the happiness she seeks but he can't give her is probably the most selfless thing he has done to date. And he did it for her.

I don't think Ren would passively let Maemi walk out of his life. They've been friends for many years and he has come to depend on her. But, yet again, I don't see anything romantic behind that.

thorned_sakura
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Post by thorned_sakura » Jun 23rd, '10, 14:16

funny what a week of hiatus can do to a frustrated fangirl!huhuhu
Anon. wrote: Maemi once talked about Ren's past with Xiu Mei.

He wanted to be noticed. He wanted his name to be remembered. And he wanted the perfect life. All in that order.

He creates the perfect company to become noticed. He becomes the CEO to be remembered. And he takes what he deems most ideal candidate for his wife.

But somewhere along the lines, I believe he just became obsessed with getting what he wanted...with fulfilling his perfect personal life...enough so that he was blinded to what really mattered and he did whatever he wanted to make sure he got what he wanted. I'm just saying...in general. It's not fair. Not to Maemi. Not to Yuzuki. Not to Xiu Mei even.
i totally agree with you on this one. that's why i said on my earlier post that ren is in love with the idea of xumei...because his logic says that someone like xumei is really good for him...and her naivety is like a breath of fresh air to him.that's why he somehow convinced himself that what he's feeling for xumei is the real deal...this is also why i consider their romance so childish.

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Post by anotherfan » Jun 23rd, '10, 17:08

Am I the only one that thinks that XM's best friend Ming is a really crappy best friend? I mean… he has tricked her and done all these other things to deceive her -- and he particularly doesn't like Rensuke and he/Kazami seem to be the ones that are pulling her away from him. I understand that Rensuke is less than pleasant towards Ming anyways so he has a right to hate Rensuke. But I don't know - Ming doesn't seem like a wholesome guy either. Something about his character just rubs me the wrong way.

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Post by joisuramu » Jun 23rd, '10, 18:46

Anon. wrote:
joisuramu wrote: On the other hand, Ming and XM understands and know each other for a long time just like Ren and Maemi. Even though these two pairs are not similar, but what I'm trying to say is that "Trust" they have in common.
While I agree with most of what you had there, I don't agree with that. They do have a deep bond but...they definitely can't have trust. Why?
Well because...
Ming stole all of Xiu Mei's money right? Right at the time she needed it the most. Her mother was sick and dying, for crying out loud. She invited him to dinner out of the kindness of her heart and he just steals ALL of her money? Even if he did return some of it later...that's just...not something friends would do. Everything that has ever happened to Xiu Mei...was basically Ming's fault. I believe that Xiu Mei DID have enough money to pay off the creditors...or at least keep them at bay. If she could, then there would have been nothing for Rensuke to take advantage of...though he might've (actually most likely) would have found a way.
Oh yes. That's correct. My bad..I totally forgot the part that he stole money from her before! I re- watched episode 1 and found more details about it that i'm confused about. When Min was waiting next to XM's hotel room trying to return half the amount of $ back to her, he kept saying "I have something to tell you, I have something to tell you!" Then it panned out to another scene....what exactly did he tell her?
All this time, I assumed that it was about how Rensuke wanted to shut down the factory, but after re-watching it, it makes me think it's something else. It must be some kind of secrets that Min over heard when Kazami went drinking and talking w/ some guys at a restaurant....It was only a 5 sec scene, but you can see Min behind them listening to what they were talking about....
And then, the scene right before "I WANT YOU", when XM was frustrated with Ren, hitting him, She said something about them taking away her mother and MIN....why is Min in it? What exactly did they do to Min? I thought Min is just another factory boy, a closer friend of XM who lost his job because of Regolith, but they must have done something else to him, and maybe that was the "something" he told her about.

sorry if I got you confused even more as i didn't do a good job explaining....I could have done better with screenshots, but I don't have ep.1 right now with me. Hope you know which scenes I'm talking about.....

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Post by cya18 » Jun 23rd, '10, 22:31

at this point ,im just feeling hopeless with this drama

Now i just wish for maemi's happiness.Thats all. whatever the outcome
.even if writers decide to do a stunt and left Rensuke alone( although i really hate it if this happens)

And this is a statement coming from a person who had never knew about Shinohara Ryoko before this drama.
(i am astonished myself why i did int know about her.)

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Post by cya18 » Jun 23rd, '10, 22:33

also ,does anybody know about the synopsis of ep 7?

thing is i dont get with the writing , is the writers and directors are not some new people, but had write several pretty succesful dramas.

another thing i dont get is why is this categorized as adult romance.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 23rd, '10, 23:08

? Adult romance//

I guess it means there are no raging hormones as in teenage romance. It makes you think about who and why instead of where and when....

No???

Peg

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Post by Ethlenn » Jun 23rd, '10, 23:12

Peggy, I was a silent reader up to now.
You're my hero from now in in the department of "concise reply"... :mrgreen:

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Jun 23rd, '10, 23:19

It is as nnnc has mentioned earlier. The production team has announced that episode 8 will be the final.
Last edited by MisS Lonliah on Jun 23rd, '10, 23:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 23rd, '10, 23:20

:lol Ethlenn....

You won't believe but after I wrote that post I thought to myself. 'Got to ask Ethlenn to comment just in case I am being too obtuse for younger minds'...
So I went to JSuk and there you were, and I came back here and there you are.

Must be something to thought waves travelling.

Peg

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Post by Ethlenn » Jun 23rd, '10, 23:26

Issy said once: great minds think alike, and you are one of the greatest here^^

I'm just your humble kouhai^^

:mrgreen:

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Post by Peggy » Jun 24th, '10, 00:03

8) but blushing here...........

Did you feel a shock
Electricity moves waves
Thoughts from me to you
:roll

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Post by kalapuikko » Jun 25th, '10, 09:51

I had high expectation on this drama, because there were many favourite actors of mine acting in this drama, kimura, shota, keiko... I mean we haven't seen kimura in a love drama for a while. So far i must say that i'm pretty dissapointed with this drama overall.

The love story is not that romantic, altough right now i'm rooting for ren&xiumei couple.
Kimura's character seem so similar to his previous works and his charater is kinda annoying sometimes.
Keiko is doing a great job and i love her in this drama. Too bad she don't have much screentime.
Linchiling is doing a decent job, i guess. I have seen her in red cilff and her acting wasn't that great either. But i must praise chiling for her hard work, and it is not easy to act in other country.
Unlike others, I find Shinohara Ryoko's acting and her character so annoying. The way she act (lips) and talk (nee.... neee) somehow bothers me so much. I wonder is it because of her character that needs to act that way.
I'm going to finish this drama tough, i'm looking forward to watch kimura's next show.

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Post by [ XD ] » Jun 25th, '10, 12:05

OMG, just two episodes left TT^TT

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Post by seirin » Jun 25th, '10, 18:45

kalapuikko wrote: Unlike others, I find Shinohara Ryoko's acting and her character so annoying. The way she act (lips) and talk (nee.... neee) somehow bothers me so much. I wonder is it because of her character that needs to act that way..
I think the lip action is for the character unless she's developed it recently in her personal life. Her previous drama characters don't act like that. However I think she does speak that way in real life because she spoke like that in her previous dramas too. But I think this one is just more obvious. I don't really mind the nee nee so much, but I think she should try to change her way of speech for different roles. BTW, the little kid in mother (ashida mana) also speaks that way LOL.

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Tsuki no Koibito sucks!

Post by wewa » Jun 25th, '10, 23:59

I agree.

I watched the first 2 episodes, and that was painful.
I would have stopped after the 1st, but my mate wanted to try a bit more.
We watched the 1080p version on our HD 55" display.
So while the 'eye candy' is nice, its a horrible plot.
No character building like we're used to in jdramas.
May as well watch some american crap.

My mate, who watches a ton of kdrama, says that japan is trying to rip off kdrama storylines, but is doing it poorly, or casting poorly. Even she can't figure out exactly what's wrong, but it terrible.

We are done. No more downloading and watching this POS.

For those that like it, what, exactly do you like about it? Kimutaku? Eye candy? How old are you?

For reference, our favorites include:
engine
good luck!
beautiful life
orange days
to heart
kamisama mo sukoshi dake
akimahende
pu pu pu
wednesday love affair
101 proposal

c'mon nippon! you're losing in electronics (sony), automotive (toyota), and now entertainment too (fujitv). WTF?

And can you do some international marketing and subtitling too? Sheesh. :-(

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Post by seirin » Jun 26th, '10, 00:37

well...every country has their good and crap dramas. Like Korea, Japan is also a hit and miss. I find the good dramas from Japan are really good. Much better than Korea. This seasons top would be Mother for me. Sunanare is okay. The plot is more interesting than this one. Shinzanmono is okay too. I found it boring at first because I didn't know what they were trying to say. But I understood later and the story became more interesting. I was expecting a detective drama and it ended up being a human drama. While being a detective drama by solving a mystery, it focused mainly on helping the deceased and related people find closure. I guess it's similar to Eita's Voice drama.

Jin from last year was very good too.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 26th, '10, 00:49

I have a minor theory about being pleased or not with any drama these days.
You know we are being trained very well by the TV producers not to expect 6o or 3o minutes in any show. We get at least ten or more minutes chopped off for commercials. Therefore they rush us through what is left and speed up the dialogue so that sometimes I, at least, don't get every word. Every show.. even variety shows are like this..
We are being trained like Pavlov's dog to expect this. Therefore, to then show us a drama that takes time to develop the characters, and slowly reveal the story makes us very uneasy and eventually dissatisfied. We can no longer ponder over a scene or how a role is being played. We don't have the patience any more.

Incidentally it's more likely that Korean dramas are copied from Japanese recently.

Well that is my opinion for what it is worth....?2 cents?

Peg

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Post by anotherfan » Jun 26th, '10, 01:47

For risk of going OT here, but I agree - I do think that Kdramas have been more copied from Jdramas recently. But really - there aren't all that many "new" dramas that are soo new and nothing has been done in it before. Most things have been done before regardless of what nation it's from. I think Jdramas are in a rut when it comes to rom-coms or romantic type dramas. But both kdramas and jdramas have had their fair share of crappy dramas this year for sure. In terms of this drama - I'd like to see the ending and where they take it in the last 2 episodes before I decide how I feel. Rewatching eps 1-5 again, really did help me appreciate the drama more cause when I watched each individual episode week by week, I kept thinking - huh? what the heck. But watching it all together was much better - and maybe alleviated some of the shock value.

I'm not even quite sure why I stuck to this drama but it's the first jdrama that I will make it all the way through watching this year, and the first one in which I've been so intrigued to follow it. That's a lot more than I can say about most of the kdramas that I followed and focused on this year (which are a lot). I guess I'm just more curious than anything about finding out the entire story.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 26th, '10, 02:13

I know just what you mean. I felt the same way about this drama. At first I reallydisliked it and could not get with it at all. I did not like the casting and I felt it was very fragmented in the story. Now I realise that viewing it in one go is the answer. It makes so much sense when you see the uinfolding of the business world and the things that are happening as the new factory is crashing with the people being fired and the whole cold demeanour of Rensuke is so obvious and his reason for what he says and does become clear.
WelI, I'm out of breath with that sentence.

Peg

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