[Discussion] JIN (Osawa Takao, Ayase Haruka, Uchino Masaaki)

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rebornsoul
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Post by rebornsoul » Dec 7th, '09, 14:56

anyone know where i can get the ost for JIN?
i heard its released

Gitik
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Post by Gitik » Dec 8th, '09, 12:37

rebornsoul wrote:anyone know where i can get the ost for JIN?
i heard its released
I randomly spotted something at youtube.com uder name: JIN-仁- メインテーマ
22 songs is featured in ost, the songlist to see here http://listen.jp/store/album_nqcl2032.htm

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Post by rebornsoul » Dec 8th, '09, 23:34

thanks!!!!

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citrone
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Post by citrone » Dec 10th, '09, 03:46

Just watched 9!!!! OMG....Seems like I was correct!!!

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Post by SMAPcracklepop » Dec 10th, '09, 04:30

I was a little ticked off at ep. 9. The teaser from ep 8 didn't come up until the very end of the episode and then they still left us hanging! I still think we are right though.

The thing that puzzled me though:
I suppose Miki's picture was fading in the first place because Nokaze's life is in danger (breast cancer?) But were they trying to suggest that JIN needs to father a child with Nokaze in order to ensure Miki's family line continues?!?!?! That's the only thing I thought of while watching how the picture became clearer when Jin was being seduced and faded again after he left to help the fire.

Of course, the picture is only responding to actions as they happen, so perhaps Miki will come back into view if Jin can operate and remove the cancer, without having to get freaky. :goggle: Reverse grandfather paradox?)
And Jin's added tracheotomy to his list of procedures, but trachs have been believed to have been performed all the way back to like, the 1200's. That's what I like about Jin. Most of the time, when I watch it, there are parts that make me think "Impossible!" But when you look at history, it's really not that much of a stretch. The penicillin thing is still a bit much, but the story they came up with in the show to explain it all is good enough for me.

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Post by Tai » Dec 10th, '09, 04:30

Great series! Does anyone know where it goes from here?

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Post by avieamber » Dec 10th, '09, 05:53

ep9 was very interesting and I'm dying to know what's the twist behind the whole picture thing!
Initially, i didn't like Nokaze much earlier but as the story goes by, I like how complex her character is. And I think the actress delivers it very well. And then in ep9, what she did was bold and kinda wrong to seduce Jin, but somehow I felt sorry for her. Especially when she let Jin go during the fire.

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Post by UedaJiro » Dec 10th, '09, 06:37

Don't read this before watching Ep 9:
I agree. I felt pity for Nokaze. Jin should not become the great-grandfather of his spouse.

In the end, Jin watches the picture and asks himself what was about to happen, when the picture was restored. He thinks that he was about to have passionate sex with Nokaze, but I think he was about to discover her breast cancer when he would fondle her breasts.

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Post by Sakari » Dec 10th, '09, 07:23

Suppose someone initially knows nothing about Jin. Then, she or he notes the title of this thread supposedly listing the leading couple, and, next, finds out that the two play siblings. What do you think this someone would believe to be the subject of the drama?

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seirin
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Post by seirin » Dec 10th, '09, 07:40

Sakari wrote:Suppose someone initially knows nothing about Jin. Then, she or he notes the title of this thread supposedly listing the leading couple, and, next, finds out that the two play siblings. What do you think this someone would believe to be the subject of the drama?
I didn't know anything about Jin. I thought Haruka and Keisuke were leads so I wasn't going to watch it. But after googling, I saw Osawa was the lead so I gave it a try. I think when you start watching and realize they are siblings, you already realize they're not leads. If you googled and found out they are siblings, you would realize they're not leads.

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Post by lenrasoon » Dec 10th, '09, 14:26

episode 9 was so wonderful i cried watching *okay i cry easily but still it was touching*

i don't know who said this before but i agree that Sakamoto Ryoma definitely stole the attention in this episode, him and Nokaze are my favorite characters, they're so interesting to watch.

two more episodes to go now, so i'm hoping to get a few answers on the next episode!

i'll miss this drama when it's finished D:

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Post by Fumei » Dec 10th, '09, 22:51

UedaJiro wrote:Don't read this before watching Ep 9:
I agree. I felt pity for Nokaze. Jin should not become the great-grandfather of his spouse.

In the end, Jin watches the picture and asks himself what was about to happen, when the picture was restored. He thinks that he was about to have passionate sex with Nokaze, but I think he was about to discover her breast cancer when he would fondle her breasts.
I gotta agree with that Ueda! At first I was really like: you can't be serious! that's just to twisted! But after Nokaze discovers the swelling the light bulb above my head started to shine XP

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Post by raven_frost » Dec 11th, '09, 00:05

From Yomiuri Daily:

'Jin' leads best programs of dramatic year

Welcome to the Tellies, the annual Televiews Awards for TV Excellence, my purely personal picks of the year's best TV ...

The year's big hit (and the one bright spot in a dreary TBS lineup) was Jin (Sundays, 9 p.m., TBS). This unusual historical science fiction drama takes home almost all the 2009 Tellies. It wins for: best drama, best dramanga (adaptation of a manga), best script, best sets, best costumes, best supporting actress--Haruka Ayase--and best supporting actor--Masaaki Uchino--for his refreshingly original portrayal of Sakamoto Ryoma. He's so good, Masaharu Fukuyama will have to work very hard to come up with a more endearing Sakamoto in NHK's 2010 Sunday night historical drama Ryoma-den starting Jan. 3.
_________________________________________________________________

Calling Ayase best supporting actress is probably going too far but I'm certainly in agreement with the assessment of Uchino Masaaki's portrayal of Sakamoto Ryoma. Fukuyama may be sweating buckets. :mrgreen:

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Post by lenrasoon » Dec 11th, '09, 02:34

@raven_frost

honestly Ayase Haruka is not the best supporting actress, but she did surprised me a lot with her acting abilities during JIN *in a good way*, so i totally understand the writer of that article but don't quite agree with him/her (if that makes sense) XD

about the rest of that article i agree with everything, especially about the Masaaki Uchino part and that Masaharu Fukuyama will have "trouble" to make it up for the wonderful Sakamoto Ryoma that Masaaki portrayed, actually JIN made me want to look forward to watch Ryoma den :-D

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Post by Sakari » Dec 11th, '09, 18:10

It was mentioned that Takao Osawa was together with Yutaka Takenouchi in Hoshi no kinka. Maybe everybody already knows this, but - Miki Nakatani has been with YT, too:Image That's Manatsu no Merry Christmas (TBS 2000).

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Post by hey9 » Dec 13th, '09, 18:56

Fumei wrote:
UedaJiro wrote:Don't read this before watching Ep 9:
I agree. I felt pity for Nokaze. Jin should not become the great-grandfather of his spouse.

In the end, Jin watches the picture and asks himself what was about to happen, when the picture was restored. He thinks that he was about to have passionate sex with Nokaze, but I think he was about to discover her breast cancer when he would fondle her breasts.
I gotta agree with that Ueda! At first I was really like: you can't be serious! that's just to twisted! But after Nokaze discovers the swelling the light bulb above my head started to shine XP
Haha that would be pretty funny though. Time-travelling in-breeding ftw!

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Post by 192381401 » Dec 16th, '09, 07:13

The final episode next week looks to be very good, it started the end of things with the ending of ep10. It looks to finish the story off, meaning no second season or anything. The novel/manga is still going though? What's the name of it, maybe they'll both come to an end around the same time.

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Post by Fumei » Dec 16th, '09, 18:18

woah how evil that next week will be the last episode already Y___Y How I gotta mis the serie

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Post by Gitik » Dec 21st, '09, 13:02

192381401 wrote:The final episode next week looks to be very good, it started the end of things with the ending of ep10. It looks to finish the story off, meaning no second season or anything. The novel/manga is still going though? What's the name of it, maybe they'll both come to an end around the same time.
Manga JIN by Motoka Murakami is ongoing: in Japan (the newest one is volume 16, I think) and in France (the newest one is volume 10). (french info about it) There is a chineese version according to ANN too. Unfortunatelly, I don´t understand any of that languages enough to read it (or to read more info about it) well. A live action is concerned mainly about the first six books, doesn´t it?

Wow, JIN - final episode broke viewership record yesterday. "JIN" finale exceeds 25%

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noshadow31
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Post by noshadow31 » Dec 21st, '09, 18:01

just finished watching the last episode.
looks like there will be a second season (or at least a movie) to answer all the questions. because the finale doesn't answer anything. T_T formaline-kun, the time-slipped patient, the 10-yen coin, etc.. are not explained in the last epi. T_T

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Post by Gitik » Dec 21st, '09, 18:51

noshadow31 wrote:just finished watching the last episode.
looks like there will be a second season (or at least a movie) to answer all the questions. because the finale doesn't answer anything. T_T formaline-kun, the time-slipped patient, the 10-yen coin, etc.. are not explained in the last epi. T_T
Just finished watching it too.
There is an semi-open end. As for answers: it is partially explained in the "disapearing photo" issue. History goes on and nobody can predict what will exactly happen in the future by any means. So we got only the mysterious hints. Maybe? I need subs to understand it, because I managed to catch only very main meaning of the scenes or well-known phrases. I want more JIN too. Yay for a very nice epilogue with that future Miki flashback and Sakamoto wearing his new shoes!

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Post by alfred820 » Dec 23rd, '09, 00:17

in case anyone want to watch the raw japanese manga:
http://mangahelpers.com/m/jin

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Post by rdoll » Dec 23rd, '09, 18:15

Am I the only one who totally disappointed with the ending.

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Post by harunoyukino » Dec 23rd, '09, 19:18

i have a special request to make: could someone kindly type out the Japanese for the line that's often used in this series:
God gives us trials so that we can overcome them.
onegaishimasu! i would like to give it to my brother as a gift this Christmas. he's been through a lot the past several yrs. i want to encourage him with this quote. :cry:
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xploring
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Post by xploring » Dec 23rd, '09, 21:10

You should be able to find it in the Japanese subtitles file

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_78909.htm

Gitik
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Post by Gitik » Dec 23rd, '09, 23:55

harunoyukino wrote:i have a special request to make: could someone kindly type out the Japanese for the line that's often used in this series:
God gives us trials so that we can overcome them.
I have found this:
God gives us trials to overcome. (神は、我々が乗り越えるために試練を与える。)

God gives us only trials that can be overcome. (神は、乗り越えることが可能な試練だけを我々に与える。)

source

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harunoyukino
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Post by harunoyukino » Dec 24th, '09, 00:53

thank you, both!! hontouni arigatou gozaimashita! :wub: Merry Christmas, minna-san!
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cantabileblue
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Post by cantabileblue » Dec 24th, '09, 01:58

Well. as for me I also think its going to be another season, or at least one movie to continue the series and answer the most important question of the series. Either way I kind of like the end(perhaps I already was waiting for an open ending), because at least Jin let go one of his obsessions, because thats the only way I can call his relationship with Miki, so what I really hope its to know if there is going to be another season, at least I will wait for it.
I think drama getting another season is becoming somenthing like a custom in jdrama media, and it probably its going to continue this way for some time more, so perhaps the drama producer will wait the end of the manga or some years for the next season.
Even if the end dont give a 100% of closure I was happy to watched, so Jin is still the best drama of this year for me.
It was fun to read what everyone share in this treat, so thanks a lot. :thumright:

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lenrasoon
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Post by lenrasoon » Dec 24th, '09, 04:32

just saw JIN, what a great ending! but of course i'm expecting a Special or another season or a movie !! XD
the whole episode made me cry, it was very emotional...
JIN is by far the best drama f this year for me!

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Post by Sakari » Dec 24th, '09, 13:33

Ryoma Sakamoto seems to be a popular character in Japanese movies and TV. Theater, too. I was surprised to find he has even been played by Miki Maya. If the name does not ring a bell, here she is seen as the school principal in this year's Ohitorisama:Image She played Ryoma while at Takarazuka Revue (1981-1998.)

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Post by noshadow31 » Dec 24th, '09, 14:08

Oh...takarazuka... i see. was a little surprised til i saw that word :P


for harunoyukino
神様は絶対に 乗り越えられる試練しか与えない
In case you are wondering, the person in my avatar is Lee Taemin from SHINee. :wub:

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Xanthos
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Post by Xanthos » Dec 24th, '09, 14:31

I'm totally expecting another season since the manga is still ongoing. Moreover, a movie or a SP will definitely not be sufficient in tying up all the knots.
Image

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Post by watashiwachiaki » Dec 24th, '09, 14:36

I'll remember spending my 2009 Christmas eve watching JIN with teary eyes :cry:

JIN was great :D but to hav another season? wouldn't it be a bit draggy?
I would opt for a movie or an SP instead (^___^)
I wonder...who sent the marriage proposal to Kyotaro Tachibana.. ahihihi...
& man! I sooo LIKE Ayase's kimono!!!! :wub:

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Post by Kathstandsalone » Dec 24th, '09, 16:27

This is one of the latest dramas that I enjoyed! :thumright: I don't mind a second season :D As the manga is on-going, I'm sure there will be plenty of material to cover.

There were some parts I don't really understand, especially the scenes with Sakamoto Ryoma and those who were jealous of Minakata sensei. Those faces all looked similar to me ... gotta re-watch Jin.

I find the Edo period to be interesting, in particular the oirans. The arinsu dialect they spoke, the koma-geta (12 - 15 inches high) they wore. I wonder how they managed to balance in those platform shoes. We see Nokaze wearing the koma-geta in the first and last episode. Nokaze walked in an interesting manner, and it's prolly the "Figure 8" step.

http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php#faq08

A picture of the koma-geta
Image

Heh, at the end when Nokaze was distributing the flyers, she got to adjust her speech, am I right?

Nakatani Miki is really pretty as Nokaze.

Can anyone explain to me when Kyotaro begged the kabuki actor to lend him 400 ryo. What does Kyotaro mean by "selling himself to the kabuki actor"?

Really enjoyed the cast too. Saki is also an enjoyable character to watch. She's strong and enduring in her own way.

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Fantastic Finale

Post by flyrogue » Dec 24th, '09, 18:35

I really, really enjoyed the final episode and would like to thank the kind souls who provided the subs.

Finale Spoiler:

My take on the ending:

Minakata Jin had a cosmic joke played on him. While focusing on making sure Miki survived, he eliminated himself.

The last picture (photo) had Miki and Jin as doctors. Now the picture does not exist.

If Jin had not operated on Nokase, she would have married the Lord and likely missing Jin, encouraged her offspring into medicine (Miki).

Had the operation not taken place, Saki would have gone through with the arranged marriage, and also encouraged her offspring (Jin's ancestor) to go into medicine.

They meet in the future.

In the final scene we see Miki as a teacher. Nokase is handing out flyers for her school where she will be the teacher. Too much of a coincidence.

Since the picture does not exist, neither does Jin.

I always though that Jin and Saki should end up together, because she is his strength, and he started to realize it. Maybe if a second season happens, the Jin/Saki offspring brings Jin back to the future, where he may meet Miki as a teacher.

Saki being rewarded for her loyalty and devotion made the final episode satisfying for me.

But the timeline he left will not be restored. He changed it forever.

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Xanthos
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Post by Xanthos » Dec 24th, '09, 18:40

Many people forgot that Jin is adapted from a manga and the manga is still ongoing.

I will be surprised if they opt for a movie or SP instead of a second season.
Kathstandsalone wrote:Can anyone explain to me when Kyotaro begged the kabuki actor to lend him 400 ryo. What does Kyotaro mean by "selling himself to the kabuki actor"?
Selling himself as in selling himself to be a slave. It's a common affair in ancient asian cities. Especially in China where people tend to sell themselves or their children as slaves to repay debts.
Image

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fleng
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Post by fleng » Dec 25th, '09, 08:32

There's definitely going to be a sequel... wondering if it will be an SP, Movie or Second Season who knows..

Best Jdrama of 2009 bar none.

Gitik
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Post by Gitik » Dec 25th, '09, 18:48

Oirans in Numbers:
koma-geta -> it could weigh up to 2 kgs
the hair style, combs and pins -> about 3 kgs
the prescribed layers of highly ornamented garments -> about 20-30 kgs
source

For those who are interested in the Old Edo period and its culture: A trip to Old Edo

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fleng
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Post by fleng » Dec 26th, '09, 01:45

Gitik wrote:Oirans in Numbers:
koma-geta -> it could weigh up to 2 kgs
the hair style, combs and pins -> about 3 kgs
the prescribed layers of highly ornamented garments -> about 20-30 kgs
source

For those who are interested in the Old Edo period and its culture: A trip to Old Edo
Thanks for sharing the website, very interesting and informative to read!

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shioki
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Post by shioki » Dec 26th, '09, 04:54

The ending is really open-ended. I wanted a sequel too, hopefully a SP or season2. But this article(in japanese) http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20091 ... 07-ykf-ent said that TBS have no plans for a sequel yet :(
Some guy from TBS said
"ありません!映画や続編があると週刊誌などであおられて本当に迷惑している。ドラマで完結。今言えるのは、今後の予定は全くないってこと。"
No. We were really troubled by the magazines for writing about the possibility of a sequel. The drama has ended and there's no plans for any sequel.
"一切把握していない。聞いてません"
He has not heard about any news about a sequel.

If you know chinese, someone translated the article here http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=686343198

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Post by Sakari » Dec 26th, '09, 07:48

shioki wrote: Some guy from TBS said
"ありません!映画や続編があると週刊誌などであおられて本当に迷惑している。ドラマで完結。今言えるのは、今後の予定は全くないってこと。"
No. We were really troubled by the magazines for writing about the possibility of a sequel. The drama has ended and there's no plans for any sequel.
I, too, think the ending leaves a lot of questions - Formalin-kun? The bandaged patient? The photograph? The Sakamoto assassination?

Then again, the drama is based on the manga that is still ongoing. Have the questions been answered in the manga? If they have not, then I don't think they can be answered in the drama, either. So, no sequel, at least not yet...

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Post by aimlesswanderer » Dec 26th, '09, 10:20

Yeah, a good ending, but still plenty of issues are still unanswered. Hopefully they will get around to answering some of them in some form or another. The most interesting Jdrama this year.
It looks like Miki is a teacher, probably a uni lecturer (the students didn't look like kids), as this seems to be the family profession after the operation.

It was fitting that Jin and Saki ended up together, as him and Nokaze would be just weird (shacking up with a possible ancestor to your future fiancee?), despite the strong feelings involved.

I wonder if the universe took away his photo so that he would stop looking at it before and after every decision he ever made!

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Post by Gitik » Dec 26th, '09, 16:31

shioki wrote:The ending is really open-ended. I wanted a sequel too, hopefully a SP or season2. But this article(in japanese) http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20091 ... 07-ykf-ent said that TBS have no plans for a sequel yet :(
Some guy from TBS said
"ありません!映画や続編があると週刊誌などであおられて本当に迷惑している。ドラマで完結。今言えるのは、今後の予定は全くないってこと。"
No. We were really troubled by the magazines for writing about the possibility of a sequel. The drama has ended and there's no plans for any sequel.
"一切把握していない。聞いてません"
He has not heard about any news about a sequel.

If you know chinese, someone translated the article here http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=686343198
Thanks for sharing it. I tried to apply babelfish to convert Japaneese to English (the result is here). It is a funny computer based translation, but still... you can catch a very main meaning or the interesting keywords in it.

As for possibility of JIN sequel: TBS has made unexpected reaction: althrough they have big hit in their hands, they don´t want to follow general sequel-making trend in entertaining bussiness. It seems that nobody expected the success of JIN with such a strong response from viewers (and magazines). Maybe, it is too early for them to adapt to this situation ( for a "closed" story in their concept, plus there is an ongoing manga issue, an upcoming taiga drama about Sakatomoto Ryoma... etc.) and they simply got troubled due to a strong positive feedback. In case of JIN, TBS reaction sounds like "we will wait and we will see, because we don´t have got any certain plan at the moment -> what the heck is that new "Uh, the end of JIN?!" mania?

I have no idea how production of asian dramas works, but popularity of historical+medical shows is rising now, it´s a new trend. Have you noticed upcoming Jejoongwoon in Korea? [see trailer]Although it has no sci-fi plot, it has light JIN-like feeling too.

There is a picture of Murakami Motoka, the original author of manga.link And then go to compare it to his own caricature at his official site. Do you know anything about JIN the novel?

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Post by Romance » Dec 26th, '09, 16:42

Last episode was slow and the ending sucked, too bad they had to destroy the drama like that. First half of the drama was definately the best. ALso TBS has already decided not to make a new season or a special so sorry guys, there wont come anything.

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shioki
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Post by shioki » Dec 27th, '09, 09:46

Sakari wrote:I, too, think the ending leaves a lot of questions - Formalin-kun? The bandaged patient? The photograph? The Sakamoto assassination?

Then again, the drama is based on the manga that is still ongoing. Have the questions been answered in the manga? If they have not, then I don't think they can be answered in the drama, either. So, no sequel, at least not yet...
ya...I''m wondering about those too. But there's no miki in the manga, so there's no photograph. But I think the photo simply represent whether Jin and miki can meet in the future, not whether they exist in the future, coz we have Jin who must exist, and Miki, i feel, will be born eventually no matter who nokaze marries
Gitik wrote:There is a picture of Murakami Motoka, the original author of manga. link And then go to compare it to his own caricature at his official site. Do you know anything about JIN the novel?
oh...didn't know there's a novel

ntv, fujitv,etc doesn't usually announce a sequel right after a drama ends though, like nodame,code blue, etc. So, I'll just hope for a sequel while I read the manga. 16 vol is enough to keep me busy for many months :)

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milhaus007
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Post by milhaus007 » Dec 27th, '09, 20:42

Is there a site for us to read the novel?

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Post by Gitik » Dec 29th, '09, 16:13

milhaus007 wrote:Is there a site for us to read the novel?
I have only spotted it for purchase in a japanese version. Here is also a piece of product info and an short review (jpn). It seems to be the manga coverted into a novel version with the same feeling (I´m not sure about story and how far it could be covered here). Well, this bonus book is released on purpose due to the succesuful manga (and the live action). I´m curious about it too. It has 237 pages.
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current release date for manga JIN vol. 17 is 04 Jan 2010 in Japan, manga raws vol. 1-16 are available for us at http://mangahelpers.com

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Post by nu_tiq87 » Dec 30th, '09, 14:54

In last episode, many of issues still not answered..
but still the best Jdrama in 2009..
touching and full 0f meaning....

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Post by hey9 » Dec 31st, '09, 22:28

Just finished watching the last episode...
A really bittersweet ending, I loved it. Even though I have not been a fan of Nokaze or Miki, I cried really hard when she was walking away and it started to snow. Saki's speech about water also made me sad...Everyone had their chance to shine in the last episode. Everyone had to make painful decisions. I kind of wanted Saburi and Saki to be together, Ryoma to marry Nokaze, and Jin to go back to the future and find Miki alive and well. Sigh, why can't things ever end perfectly hehe.

To be honest, even though there are a lot of questions still left unanswered, if they ended it right now, I would be happy. I really liked that ending. Although I'm surprised TBS has no plans on a follow-up. What a bunch of dunces. Throughout the series, I kind of wondered why they picked the ending song because the ballad didn't fit the show, IMO. But the last episode, the song was perfect for the ending. I started tearing up again haha :cry:
No more seeing Formalin-kun :cry:

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Post by seirin » Jan 1st, '10, 14:47

I thought the ballad fit the drama to the T. It was shown throughout the drama. Jin keeps talking to himself at the cliff where the hospital would be built. He and Miki goes there all the time during their breaks. He's actually there to talk to Miki although she won't be there until the future. He wants to go back but he can't.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jan 1st, '10, 17:53

Best drama of the season. Can wait for the next season! :p
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by noobee » Jan 1st, '10, 17:57

ya really nice drama!
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Post by Sakuya » Jan 8th, '10, 21:32

I just finished the drama!
The finale was so emotional but I'm disappointed we don't find out exactly what that baby is. I'm also personally disappointed that Jin doesn't get to return to the present because that'd be so interesting. At least they let us know what happens to Miki. I wonder what Jin saw at the end?
I think this was the best drama I've seen in a while. And the music was incredible! Hopefully they do decide to make a second season several years from now. It made me skim the manga and for those interested, here's what I randomly found:
1. Jin gets a recurring dream while in Edo about meeting that bandaged person and extracting the fetus tumor. The bandaged person in the manga is not bandaged at all and says to him: "Jin, you are me!"
2. Nokaze seems to have gotten married to a Westerner and wears Western clothes in Vol.16. :whistling:
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Post by noobee » Jan 8th, '10, 21:41

really nice drama!
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Post by seirin » Jan 8th, '10, 21:58

Sakuya wrote:
1. Jin gets a recurring dream while in Edo about meeting that bandaged person and extracting the fetus tumor. The bandaged person in the manga is not bandaged at all and says to him: "Jin, you are me!"
2. Nokaze seems to have gotten married to a Westerner and wears Western clothes in Vol.16. :whistling:
Thanks for the spoiler. It's good to know that Jin did manage to go back to the future. I hope he finally finds happiness with Miki.

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Post by Sakuya » Jan 8th, '10, 22:02

seirin wrote:Thanks for the spoiler. It's good to know that Jin did manage to go back to the future. I hope he finally finds happiness with Miki.
What? He doesn't go back to the future. And there is no Miki character in the manga.
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Post by seirin » Jan 8th, '10, 22:18

Sakuya wrote:
seirin wrote:Thanks for the spoiler. It's good to know that Jin did manage to go back to the future. I hope he finally finds happiness with Miki.
What? He doesn't go back to the future. And there is no Miki character in the manga.
ahh no Miki? Too bad.

I thought he goes back to the future? Cuz he says "Jin, you are me" He must have gone back to the future if he was the bandaged guy. The future him goes back to the past. The past him (from Edo) goes to the future.

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Post by SouthsideIrish » Jan 8th, '10, 22:22

OK, now I am confused! Is the future the present, or is the present the past?

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Post by Sakuya » Jan 8th, '10, 22:22

seirin wrote: I thought he goes back to the future? Cuz he says "Jin, you are me" He must have gone back to the future if he was the bandaged guy. The future him goes back to the past. The past him (from Edo) goes to the future.
Ooh, you are right. :P But why did he have the voice of Ryoma in the drama? So confusing. Besides, you're not supposed to be able to meet yourself. :scratch: It'd be less confusing if it was Ryoma.

Edit:
The future is the present. In the perspective of Edo Jin, to go back to the present means to go back to the future.
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Post by seirin » Jan 8th, '10, 22:31

Sakuya wrote:
seirin wrote: I thought he goes back to the future? Cuz he says "Jin, you are me" He must have gone back to the future if he was the bandaged guy. The future him goes back to the past. The past him (from Edo) goes to the future.
Ooh, you are right. :P But why did he have the voice of Ryoma in the drama? So confusing. Besides, you're not supposed to be able to meet yourself. :scratch: It'd be less confusing if it was Ryoma.

Edit:
The future is the present. In the perspective of Edo Jin, to go back to the present means to go back to the future.
Maybe he had a cold so his voice got hoarse? As for not being able to meet yourself if traveling from different periods, it's hard to say. I don't see why not. Who made such a theory? If you existed in 2010 and you went back to 1990, why wouldn't you be able to see the "you" back in 1990? Does that person in the past disappear in the past because the future you went back? Of course, having yourself meet yourself feels kind of weird and unbelievable unless you believed in time travel.

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Post by Sakuya » Jan 8th, '10, 23:08

seirin wrote:Maybe he had a cold so his voice got hoarse? As for not being able to meet yourself if traveling from different periods, it's hard to say. I don't see why not. Who made such a theory? If you existed in 2010 and you went back to 1990, why wouldn't you be able to see the "you" back in 1990? Does that person in the past disappear in the past because the future you went back? Of course, having yourself meet yourself feels kind of weird and unbelievable unless you believed in time travel.
If Edo Jin met himself in 2010, then there is no Jin in Edo. Actually, nevermind, there was no Jin in Edo to begin with. So why are there two Jins now? :scratch: I think that if you yourself meet, you will be canceled out and disappear or something. I haven't read too much into the theory.

Lol, I rewatched the last few minutes of the finale from the snow scene, it's just so touching.
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Post by SouthsideIrish » Jan 8th, '10, 23:12

Well, I think the present you could see the past you, but how could s past you meet the present you, because the present you would have to go back to meet the past, so there would be no present you to meet him.

Does that make any sense?

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Post by Gitik » Jan 9th, '10, 00:18

SouthsideIrish wrote:Well, I think the present you could see the past you, but how could s past you meet the present you, because the present you would have to go back to meet the past, so there would be no present you to meet him.

Does that make any sense?
Yeah. The Time-traveling loop and its paradox. "Only one person at one time" premise time means that you basically cannot do time-traveling in proper way. We need a special pretext to cover that non-sense: Well, Hermione (thanks her Time-Turner) can do it, but no interaction between Past you and Present you are recommended. At least it makes sense in time-traveling theory by J. K. Rowling. But the time paradox is solved in a different way in Discworld by Terry Pratchett. There are those interactions between Past You and Preset/Future You enabled.

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Post by seirin » Jan 9th, '10, 04:39

Okay, here's what happened. The 2010 Jin met the Edo Jin. When they met, 2010 Jin was thrown back into Edo period. If 2010 Jin didn't meet Edo Jin, he wouldn't have been thrown back into Edo period. Then there wouldn't be an Edo Jin who travelled back to 2010 Jin to meet him to throw him into the past. It's a cycle. In the end, Jin ended up where he left off before he time slipped. You can say he's gained a extra years cuz he time travelled and returned to the same period again after. However, his body age would tell you differently :P No matter what time zone, your body and cells will age.

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Post by 20centuryboy » Jan 9th, '10, 09:10

SouthsideIrish wrote:OK, now I am confused! Is the future the present, or is the present the past?
each time is its own present? :whistling:
Nankurunai sa!

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Post by Issy » Jan 9th, '10, 10:02

seirin wrote:Okay, here's what happened. The 2010 Jin met the Edo Jin. When they met, 2010 Jin was thrown back into Edo period. If 2010 Jin didn't meet Edo Jin, he wouldn't have been thrown back into Edo period. Then there wouldn't be an Edo Jin who travelled back to 2010 Jin to meet him to throw him into the past. It's a cycle. In the end, Jin ended up where he left off before he time slipped. You can say he's gained a extra years cuz he time travelled and returned to the same period again after. However, his body age would tell you differently :P No matter what time zone, your body and cells will age.
:O :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: maybe i need to watch the last ep again. i am more confused than ever now. :roll
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Post by seirin » Jan 9th, '10, 11:01

I think most people suspected it was himself way back in the beginning anyhow. We just needed the "okay" from the writer. It was kind of obvious how the stranger knew where things were in the hospital (where medicine was placed, where the fetus is located), where to hide to get around everyone, what medical supplies to pack. If it really was Ryoma he wouldn't have taken such a short time to make it to the fire escape. He would need hours to check every room in the hospital and somehow know where to sneak around so people don't see him. The hospital is full of patients. I don't think he would know to escape using the fire escape.

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Post by Issy » Jan 9th, '10, 17:15

i just don't get why there should be 2009 jin as well as edo Jin at the same time. if he went back to edo time, then shouldn't 2009 change automatically with no JIN? :scratch: saying this, i still believe that injured man was jin himself. i just don't get how? is it like parallel universe? then they could not be at the same time same place.
:lol as i said, i am seriously confused.
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Post by 20centuryboy » Jan 9th, '10, 18:07

Do you know Schrödinger's cat?]
It's all there. When you start dealing with time warps and traveling in time you must take a look into the quantum theories and the superstrings theory.
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Nankurunai sa!

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Post by seirin » Jan 9th, '10, 19:05

Issy wrote:i just don't get why there should be 2009 jin as well as edo Jin at the same time. if he went back to edo time, then shouldn't 2009 change automatically with no JIN? :scratch: saying this, i still believe that injured man was jin himself. i just don't get how? is it like parallel universe? then they could not be at the same time same place.
:lol as i said, i am seriously confused.
It doesn't happen that easily. When he appeared in Edo, during the time span of when he was a baby, when he grew up and study to become a doctor. Does not all that exist? He just appears out of nowhere? No parents? He exists in 2 time frames, same universe. Not parallel. Because of his existence in Edo however, certain aspects of the future might change depending on what he does in the past. In the worst case scenerio is if he even screws himself by affecting his parents and he never becomes born. That gets kind of messy and you wonder what happens in the time continuum. How Jin describes it to make it work is by saying "No matter what you do, time will right itself and you can't totally change things" Like when he saved the woman but later died by some crazy samurai. Nozake led a different life, but Miki was still born. Her future was just changed slightly. Maybe he did meet Miki in the future but under different circumstances.

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Post by Sakuya » Jan 9th, '10, 21:36

seirin wrote:It was kind of obvious how the stranger knew where things were in the hospital (where medicine was placed, where the fetus is located), where to hide to get around everyone, what medical supplies to pack. If it really was Ryoma he wouldn't have taken such a short time to make it to the fire escape. He would need hours to check every room in the hospital and somehow know where to sneak around so people don't see him. The hospital is full of patients. I don't think he would know to escape using the fire escape.
That's a good point! How come I never thought of that? :crazy:
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Post by Gir » Jan 9th, '10, 23:47

How about a time line diagram?
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If you can remain calm while all around you others are panicking... Then you obviously have not adequately assessed the situation.

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Post by seirin » Jan 10th, '10, 01:28

This is my hypothesis on the time line. The ages are assumed and not exact. It's just to give an idea.

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Post by Peggy » Jan 10th, '10, 07:46

Not too sure I can add anything very enlightening to this puzzle. However, I was thinking that if you look at someone in a "time machine" set at present day. and then begin to travel backwards, then things really do change and sometimes disappear. Some things that exist at present time will not be known or invented even two hundred years ago.
People will not exist and I always wondered how the person in the machine remained the same. Strictly speaking that person travelling should also disappear. :scratch:

Jin went back into Edo period but for some reason he could remember the Tokyo modern day. Is he unconscious from the fall down the stairs? Is he dreaming all this? How long was the time frame in Edo really?

The bandaged man who was brought into the hospital...did Jin actually see him as he fell or did he just know about that patient and saw him in his mind as he fell.
I have no solid idea about the fetus at all. When we saw it in the drama after it was in the hospital..where did it appear anyway.? Can't remember


Is a puzzlement...

I think you can't have two Jins. He was in Tokyo and then slipped back to Edo but he did not return. So I wonder who was missing him and looking for him in the hospital?? That is one nebulous reason that I thought he was dreaming all of this lying in his hospital bed after the fall.

Peggy

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Post by cantaboy » Jan 10th, '10, 09:35

I'm so lost.

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