[Discussion] JIN (Osawa Takao, Ayase Haruka, Uchino Masaaki)

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bloodbath-angel
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Post by bloodbath-angel » Jun 16th, '11, 18:09

Can somebody please tell me the real name of Ryoma's bodyguard? I know i have seen him before in some dramas, but i can't remember which one. Thanks!

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Hideaki_Ito
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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 17th, '11, 02:07

bloodbath-angel wrote:Can somebody please tell me the real name of Ryoma's bodyguard? I know i have seen him before in some dramas, but i can't remember which one. Thanks!
I guess you're talking about this guy.
http://jdorama.com/artiste.1456.htm
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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bloodbath-angel
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Post by bloodbath-angel » Jun 17th, '11, 03:10

Hideaki_Ito wrote: I guess you're talking about this guy.
http://jdorama.com/artiste.1456.htm
Yes, That's him. Thanks You so much! :-)

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Post by avieamber » Jun 17th, '11, 13:20

I was quite disappointed with ep9. It was draggy, and I felt like it was wasting my time watching at all, except for the last probably 10 mins. After a great emotional ep8, this was just...

:glare:

I'll not rant here. Because I just did in my blog. I hope next week will be better since it's the final episode (even though separated into two parts). I want a satisfying closure especially regarding Jin and Saki. They can at least give us that.
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Hideaki_Ito
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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 21st, '11, 03:43

Ep 10
There wasn't a lot going in ep 10 (or maybe I was just skimming a bit too much. The events I remember can be out of order.) Anyways, Jin tried to save lover Ryoma, stayed by his side and waited for his revival. Fortunately for me Ryoma finally left for good after rambling for a bit. After the death of his lover, Jin let out a most excruciating cry. (I feel kind of bad but at this point my body was trembling.... with laughter. It wasn't because Ryoma died but because of Jin's reaction after Ryoma died. I felt like I was watching an old Taiwanese romance soap. Oh how I want to do a Itoshiki Hibiyo MV starring Jin and Ryoma. It would fit so damn well with all the nuances. I was just afraid that JP fans would fry me on a stick.)

The last less than half ep continued with Jin, dragging along his heavy heart, came back to Edo to find Jinyudo in trouble but it seemed they got over it. Then he asked the others to moved on without him because he has rock in his head however the others disagreed and started crying. They spent the next 10 minutes convincing him to lead their cause or else he would not be able face the old man from last season I forgot his name. Everyone at this point including Jin were crying 80s/90s-Taiwanese-romance-soap style. After a while, Jin agreed (possibly because he realized yet again his next great mission to save the planet from destruction). So they moved on with their lives. Jin continued to educate and let others take the lead. One day he fell unconscious after he started hearing beloved Ryoma's voice. The fetus in the bottle also returned with the blinking game once again. Meanwhile some army was marching into Edo.

Next ep
Is that Jin hugging Saki? Wow, this is major bomb shell. This must be the epic hug (of galactic proportion) that they were hiding in secrecy for 11 eps, holding the audience hostage until the very end. I didn't know that we would even get a hug. Wow script writer, you sure show me. :roll (Then again with Jin 2 I can never tell what will happen so if it turns out that Jin hugs Saki's mom I wouldn't surprised. But it would be pretty funny.)
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by ailuros » Jun 21st, '11, 09:10

^
thanksfor episode summery

I wish they less focus on ryoma and more on Saki and Jin's doctor girfriend.
Now seem too late

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Hideaki_Ito
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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 23rd, '11, 04:18

I on the other hand was most interested in the canon pairing Jin and Saki (or Osawa and Ayase rather. Heck I was hoping to see some rabu in promotion clips but they acted cold outwardly. It's hard to tell if they're dating and hiding or they broke up before season 2 started. I'm pretty damn sure they were dating last year. Their faces were filled with loving feelings.)

Now that I see no explanation in season 2 as of yet, I'm curious to see how the manga explained the fetus relationship. It showed Jin's response to children from time to time (but I don't know JP so I couldn't tell what it all meant.)
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by asuko1linda » Jun 27th, '11, 13:08

I absolutely love JIN! It's brilliantly written with a list of very strong and great actors! A highly recommended drama! :D

I just finished watching season 2, and I have to say, it's even more superior than season 1! :)
Hideaki_Ito wrote:I on the other hand was most interested in the canon pairing Jin and Saki (or Osawa and Ayase rather. Heck I was hoping to see some rabu in promotion clips but they acted cold outwardly. It's hard to tell if they're dating and hiding or they broke up before season 2 started. I'm pretty damn sure they were dating last year. Their faces were filled with loving feelings.)

Now that I see no explanation in season 2 as of yet, I'm curious to see how the manga explained the fetus relationship. It showed Jin's response to children from time to time (but I don't know JP so I couldn't tell what it all meant.)
Really? I didn't know Ayase Haruka and Osawa dated last year! Is that true or just a rumor? Because even if co-stars have great chemistry together, it doesn't mean they're dating/dated.

Well, their chemistry on-screen in season 2 was even better! :D And if you like their canon, then you will love the last episode! Although I have only seen the raw for ep 11 so far, but I can tell there was a lot of love between Jin and Saki in season 2, and it was further more proved in the last episode :D

By the way, do you have any videos of the pair promoting season 2? I would love to see them!

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itsArtemis
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Post by itsArtemis » Jun 27th, '11, 13:47

asuko1linda wrote:I absolutely love JIN! It's brilliantly written with a list of very strong and great actors! A highly recommended drama! :D

I just finished watching season 2, and I have to say, it's even more superior than season 1! :)
I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN. :-(

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Post by asuko1linda » Jun 27th, '11, 15:36

itsArtemis wrote: I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN. :-(
are you serious? Virtually everyone I have come across who have seen season 2 absolutely loved it and praised it for being better than season 1. And season 2 also had higher ratings than season 1.

I guess you are one of the very few people who didn't like it.

Ok so a lot did focused on Ryoma in season 2, but a lot of the series also centered around Jin and Saki too.

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 27th, '11, 16:29

asuko1linda wrote:
itsArtemis wrote: I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN. :-(
are you serious? Virtually everyone I have come across who have seen season 2 absolutely loved it and praised it for being better than season 1. And season 2 also had higher ratings than season 1.

I guess you are one of the very few people who didn't like it.

Ok so a lot did focused on Ryoma in season 2, but a lot of the series also centered around Jin and Saki too.
I'm one of the few who didn't like it as well. For me I thought season 1 was not so bad. I mean they built up this false sense of suspense so I didn't skim too much. I skimmed maybe like 40% whereas I skimmed about 70% in season 2. Part 1 isn't as crucial as part 2 because the ending always give a deeper impression. If they screw it up. Oh well.

Well if you compare Jin and Saki's development to something like the "romance" (if you can call it that) in Mr. Brain or Deerman then yeah it's "a lot" of development. Audiences were so used to disconnected development so now with this less than disconnected development, they were so impressed.

This writer was taking the story all over the places.

But anyways, my true feelings for this is
I watched a lot of dramas and surely saw a lot of superficial BS. This is a lot of it all in one and it got too preachy. But anyways. I love the cast and think they did a great job. The writer is on-a-stick fried worthy. If she couldn't make a better story don't bother adapt. She totally destroyed Jin and Saki's story. This woman must be hang to sooth my anger.
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by kidor_didine » Jun 27th, '11, 17:14

I totally agree with you Ito, and even more so as I have been reading the manga (up to volume 14, still waiting for the rest to be published in french). What I dislike the most in the drama is that they try to turn Saki into a modern woman.
She wants to become a doctor. OK, why not, but is the fact that she wants to be a nurse in the manga not good enough? Does she have to aim to the highest "position"? She is someone who cares for the people and being a nurse sticks much more to that feeling.
In the manga, Jin and Saki faces their feelings very simply and directly. Does every drama romance need to be complicated to agree with the taste of the viewers? All this plot with the "I love him, but I cannot because he may disappear", what a BS! This is Edo time, people died so easily. In the manga, Jin and Saki enjoyed their moments together because they know that life is short.
Also Saki lacks this shyness that made her so interesting in the manga. She is too direct in the drama, which is not consistent for a samourai daughter. She is not so bold in the manga, which makes every important decision of her to have a bigger impact.
I like Nokaze, but we see too much of her, as if she was the one and only patient at Jinyu-do. I did miss all the side characters developped in the manga who brought humanity to Jin and the plot. In Jin 2 we can only see the big shots (Ryoma, Saigo...) and not the common people we encountered in the manga and in Jin 1, pity. It is like Jin became a VIP doctor, what about his Hippocratus oath?
I am very disappointed. Jin 1 made me buy the manga. Fortunately I read it before Jin 2, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 27th, '11, 20:56

Should I even watch this drama??
I have been waiting for the whole series to finish before starting. I like Jin 1 but it seems as though it wanders away from the strangeness into a very artificial attempt at bonding Jin and Ryoma. Quite apart from the fact that this is a fiction, we know that no-one like Jin was ever in the Ryoma story at all. Mixing it up this way is not a good story line. Writer got on the wrong track I would think.

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 27th, '11, 22:04

And so I watched the last ep raw... My feeling is I think they should have changed this drama from "Jin" to "Jintaro" or something. Having this drama with the same name as the manga just makes the manga looks bad.

So anyways,
So Jin's rock in the head was making things worst by the day and he no longer could perform his medical duties. He couldn't even hold his rice bowl. I thought I was going to see some rabu rabu spoon fed action between Jin and Saki but that was just my wishful thinking. Anyways, so there was some war going on and Kyotaro went to war. Saki's mom wasn't so happy about it obviously. In response Saki voluntarily went looking for her brother. Wtf? Why did they have to make Saki stupid now running to battle to look for brother just to get shot? Double wtf. Anyways so she ran out and happened to run right into Kyotaro fighting and all. All I have to say is she must have very good sense of directions.

Anyways, so Kyotaro carried Saki back to camp to get treated. Jin couldn't take the bullet out because of his rock in the head so he passed on to the other doctors. Then he started to hear Ryoma's voices again. After that he started to direct the others to treat the injured. Time passed and Saki's wound wasn't healing and was getting worse but she didn't tell Jin. So by the time Jin found out she was already in pretty shape. Jin got real worried as he was taking care of her. They were in the room alone talking and stuff. Then Jin hugged Saki and said something. I don't know if it was confession time or not. He might have said something like "please don't die because I need to eat those deep fried tofu" or something for all I know. It's not like I'm aware that he has any special feelings for her or anything. But from the look of it, it was kind of loving. Then Jin remembered about some medicine bottle he might have brought back so he parted ways with Saki and went looking for it.

After looking inside Jinyudo with no avail he went to the woods where he came from first ep and looked with Kyotaro. I think they got attacked (I'm not sure because I skimmed) and then Jin suddenly decided to jump into the hole to go back to the future to get the meds. He must have thought that going back to Edo from the future would be like taking a Galaxy Express 999 back or something. So anyways, he woke up and got operated by Jin present day then the events followed as you know. He was determined to return to the past but failed. Yah, I thought he would figure that out before he jumped into the hole. Next thing he woke up finding out he was operated by someone else and not his modern self and that the present time is probably another alternate universe. How that went about I didn't bother figuring it out. I don't know Japanese so I couldn't follow the explanation and even if I do I may need a bit of time making sense from the paradox.

So Jin was running around looking for answers because he wanted to know what happened to Saki. He didn't find stuff at the library so he went back to the Tachibana's house. And I have to say it's pretty amazing he could figure out where it was (not mentioning it's pretty amazing that it was still there). Suddenly these characters just started having psychic abilities and all. But anyways, so Miki from first season appeared and said that was her house. He asked about Saki Tachibana so she let him into the house and showed him some pictures. He saw the pictures of the people without him in there. Apparently Saki never got married and probably adopted a girl. Jin asked for Miki's name and she told him, Miki Tachibana. As he was about to leave Miki gave Jin a letter from Saki to him. I guess the writer must have liked "Tokyo Girl." So Jin read Saki's letter and cried buckets. Then Jin came up with a resolution for his life and gave another philosophical or inspirational whiny shtuff after thinking about his lover Ryoma. The last scene showed him operated on Miki Tachibana. That was after the ED.
My feelings:
That was a pretty horrid ride. After seeing the ultimate slaughter (of my Jin and Saki story), I was speechless. I feel bad for the manga writer. His story was taken and turned into some disfigured shtuff. However, since it was showing its tendency way back when I wouldn't say I was surprised but I wouldn't say I wasn't disappointed neither. The good thing is the general audience bought it and that the rating is good since it's Ayase and Osawa's drama and all. And maybe the good rating can trigger an anime adaptation.

What I like about "Jintaro"
Itoshiki Hibiyo by Ken Hirai.
I love this song. My guess is this song was written based on the manga. It pretty much describes Jin and Saki relationship in the manga. I've been listening to this song on repeat whenever I take a drive. (The CD earns its permanent spot in the CD player in my car. It's the only song I listen to.) It's also the only song that I was motivated enough to memorized the kanji lyrics of. Whenever it's kanji practice time, I found myself writing the kanji lyrics of this song.

Ayase Haruka
I found her in this drama and shortly after became a fan. I think she's one of the best actresses and is very versatile. I really like her in Ichi and Hotaru no Hikari (which is a drama I keep re-watching from time to time.) I like the chemistry between her and Osawa in Ichi too. She and Naohito were great as well. She also co-starred with Tamaki Hiroshi 3 times (and I like their chemistry as well). She was good in Jin. Her rendition of Hotaru was also very spot on and the expressions were just perfect. In real life, she gives off an air of clumsiness. I know people call her stupid. I think she's slow at thinking and not articulate at times. Sometimes she's pretty good at it sometimes she's not. However I find her clumsiness rather charming. Fact of the matter is as long as she performs well with her job, that's enough. There are plenty out there who are articulate but can't do their job properly. *smirk*

Osawa Takao
It seems he has a good reputation as a good actor. I only saw him once before in Aragami with Masaya Kato (but I didn't pay attention to him). And there was that weird movie that he played the ninja that I saw after but he didn't have that much screen time. I think he's done well with "Jintaro". I certainly want to see more of his dramas. He's good looking though (not consistently handsome at some angles.) However there's no doubt he's smoking hot for his age. Osawa doesn't have that pretty boy handsomeness. He's good looking in the manly sort of way. His smile is charming. I can see why Ayase likes him. He keeps his bod in great shape (as shown in ep 2). It just shows that he's a narcissist. As for his personality, I feel he's rather serious and stiff. He gives off the air of an elitist or something. I hope I'm wrong. I have soft spot for down-to-earth sweeties (like Hiroshi Tamaki for example).

Ayase and Osawa look good as a couple and I think their personalities complement each other. I'm all for shotgun marriage but at least after she films the NHK drama. *nod*

My take on Osawa/Ayase relationship (damn I can't nest spoilers)
As for Osawa and Ayase's relationship, words on the street:
Spring last year news broke out that they were dating because people spotted Ayase coming out of Osawa's mansion. I believe this is true or rather I want to believe this is true. If there's no fire, there's no smoke. At around the same time, they appeared on TV shows looking ridiculously hyper. Sometimes they were laughing nonstop. I thought what's so funny? People who are happy inside can't control their happiness from bursting out. *smirk*

Let's go back in time. Ayase collaborated with Osawa in Ichi. I think they had great chemistry though there was only one "intimate" scene (which is a hug) between them. There was implication that they may have spent the night together after the hug but I'm not certain. I like to think they did. When asked what they thought of each other. Ayase said Osawa is "charming". Osawa said something like "pinku". I guess he meant she's feminine or girly. Don't know. But anyways, there was a clip where they were presented with a Ichi cake at a press con. They were told to cut it. Osawa was all shy and flustered about it (probably having this image of cutting a wedding cake with Ayase *ahem*) while Ayase was smiling but it was the smile of "what's wrong with this guy? Is this like a big deal or something? Let's just cut the damn cake already buddy." So anyways then a year later they met again for Jin.

Back to the dating thing, words on the street was that they got caught kissing in the public late 2010 and then there were rumours that they were looking for a new house??? Fastforward to filming Jin 2. People on the set could see that they were displaying "professional" attitude toward each other, especially Ayase. So there was speculation that they may have broken up before filming. I saw a clip when she went over so Singapore around Spring 11 for a beauty product promotion. The interviewer asked about her preference in men. She said "one who has nice smile." So they mentioned something about the rumoured boyfriend Osawa and asked if he has a nice smile. At this time Ayase has a big smile on her face but didn't answered the question. She instead said, "I respect him as a co-star." If they broke up, that wouldn't have been the expression on her face. The fact that they're all cold and ignoring each other out in the public means something. Usually people display some kind of diplomatic reaction to strangers just to be polite or as general courtesy. If they don't even show that courtesy that means they're not strangers. It's not like Ayase hates him and doesn't care if she burns this bridge. She's not afraid to show such coldness because behind the scene they're close to each other. She has no obligation to "stand on ceremony."

That's my take on it but as you know, don't take my words for it. I have the habit of making stuff up for my own advantage sometimes. I don't know why some celeb would hide their relationship but anyways best of luck to them whichever way it goes. I always like to see people happily in love. It's a beautiful thing.
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by asuko1linda » Jun 28th, '11, 05:44

Gosh what a totally different place this is!
It's like the people here don't like season 2, and yet everywhere else I go, almost everyone is praising season 2 and saying it's better than season 1. I guess most of the people who don't like season 2 are all mainly hiding here in d-addicts. I'm amazed that you people even bothered to finish the season.

If you don't like something, then why bother finishing it? Curiosity perhaps?

I never read the manga, so I don't know how the original story is or how the characters were originally suppose to be like. But being oblivious about the manga makes me much less strict about season 2 I guess. Because I don't have as high expectations as those who have read the manga. But I doubt many people have read the manga, so maybe that's one of the reasons why so many people loved season 2 and felt it's better than season 1.

Overall, it depends on individual opinions and preferences, and I personally loved season 2, I thoroughly enjoyed it more than I did with season 1, and I love the character development of Saki. Her passion for saving lives and becoming the best female doctor, how she hopes to aim high makes her an inspiration. People have high goals, they aim high.
Some people don't just aim for a mediocre level job for the rest of their life.

And Saki obviously is one of those people who wants to aim high in their lives, what's wrong with that? Sure, no female in her time has ever had the confidence to aim at such a high ranked job, nor did some of them wanted to. Women back in those times were restricted and lower ranked in society back in. But that's what makes Saki stand out and inspirational for other women back in those times. Because she's bold and has high goals and dreams.
Just because her character was less bold and merely a nurse in the manga doesn't mean that they have to stick to the manga. And although I have not read the manga, but based on what I have read about her character in the manga, frankly, I MUCH prefer her character in the drama. I prefer women who are bold and have high goals and dreams.

About Jin and Saki's relationship:
Saki's feelings for Jin but apprehensive to pursue a relationship for him does make sense to me. I think Jin has also fallen in love with Saki (if he didn't, then he probably wouldn't have asked Saki if they could be together right?), Saki knows that deep down, he also still loves Miki, and that Jin will one day sooner or later return to his time, and that means returning to his girlfriend Miki. Why not spare her the heartbreak? If she had pursued a relationship with Jin, then she would have to deal with the hurt of him suddenly disappearing and going back to his time any moment. She would also have to deal with the thought of Jin going back to his girlfriend once he is back in the present time.
Saki knows Jin loves Miki a lot, and she respects their relationship. That's why she was not willing to pursue a relationship with Jin. The other reason being that she wanted to spare herself the hurt of losing him.
Although she did lose him at the end when Jin eventually went back to the present time. But instead of losing her lover, she lost her great friend and mentor. At least the hurt of that is probably more tolerable for Saki than losing a lover who probably is back with his previous love.
And about the Miki in the present:
When Jin came back to the present and met Miki, she was the reincarnation of the Miki who was Jin's previous girlfriend. She introduced herself as "Tachibana Miki", the same name as Saki's family name. Which means that she is a descendant of Saki.
Saki did adopt a daughter and it's was most likely Nokaze's baby, since the baby's name was "Anju", the same name as Nokaze's baby. Nokaze probably died shortly after Jin went back to the present time, so Saki probably decided to raise the baby as her own.
Or Saki might have adopted someone else's baby and named her "Anju" too. I don't know. Either way, Saki had adopted a daughter and named her "Anju".

And this new Miki that Jin met in the present, she is definitely part of the Tachibana family since she has the family name. But the fact that she looks exactly like Nokaze, could indicate that her actual blood descent is Nokaze. And that she is blood related to 'Tachibana Anju', therefore, connected to Saki.
Which brings me back to my first theory that Saki's adopted daughter is actually Nokaze's daughter.

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Sakuya
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Post by Sakuya » Jun 28th, '11, 08:20

I wonder if they'll release a new OST? It didn't seem like there were that many new tracks to reckon a new one. But I really liked that new track used when Jin was leaving M.'s house near the end.

Edit:
Oops, nevermind! The final CD was already released a month ago. So fast! They even have a piano solo CD.
Last edited by Sakuya on Jun 28th, '11, 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Toritorisan » Jun 28th, '11, 08:42

I've been a silent reader of this thread and thought I'd contribute some love for Jin 2. I don't think Jin 2 surpassed Jin 1, but I found them equally entertaining in their own way. I'm kind of glad that Jin 2 didn't completely focus all the time on Jin using his modern medicine knowledge to perform "miracles" in the Edo era. I think I would have gotten bored with this type of storyline if it continued throughout the entire Jin 2. I actually liked that they included the Ryoma and Nokaze story arcs because I felt it made the story well-rounded and showed how the other main characters grew from the first series.

A few things now that Jin 2 is over (spoilers):
Even though Saki and Jin physically did not remain together in the end, I was glad that she wrote that letter to him and conveyed her feelings (now I know why that 10 yen was so signficant cuz she needed to find it to remember his existence). I guess I can be satisfied with the ending because if he stayed with Saki in the Edo era, there would always be the question if he would be transported back. Now that he is in his own era, he can move forward. But, I'm kinda sad Saki remained alone. Was the little girl she adopted Nokaze's baby? Is that why Miki became "Tachibana Miki?" Couldn't tell with my limited Japanese... Anyways, I can live with this ending (unlike the kdrama 49 days which I still can't get over!) because in the end, everyone seemed to live a life they were happy with.

I think my only irk with Jin 2 is that they let Sakamoto Ryoma die! They spent so much time on trying to prevent his the death, it would have been nicer if he could have lived longer. I really thought he was gonna be saved...
For me this drama was an entertaining ride. I'm really going to miss this cast. I actually used to like Oosawa Takao when he did "Hoshi no Kinka" and Uchino Masaaki in "Miss Cinderella" back in the late 90's, but then kinda lost interest in them. I think they really made a drama comeback with their roles in Jin. I haven't read the manga and am not sure how much better the original is. However, usually when a manga gets transformed into a live action drama, I don't mind if the story is changed. For me, if it follows the manga word for word, then it becomes too predictable and I start losing interest. I don't mind changes and surprises as it helps keep me interested.

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jun 29th, '11, 00:16

Jin drama is adapted very loosely. Of course it's impossible to follow the whole story because the manga has a lot of stuff going on. The sad thing is the even the main events with the main characters were changed to the point where it's unrecognizable. If the writer thinks she can do a better job why bother adapt? Just might as well write a new story and name it "Fujiwara" or something. I think it would be better if it's taken up a new identity because it's an entirely different animal. However I do give it credit that it introduces the broader public to Jin manga. The manga writer probably had to exchange the slaughter for the promotion.
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by Sakuya » Jun 29th, '11, 07:48

So is Anju Miki's mother or grandmother? Still haven't gotten that clear. But judging from how Miki looked at Jin as he looked at the old pics, it feels like she has heard a lot about him already from someone. So if Anju is her mom, then she could surely have heard stories from Grandma Saki. :roll But then again when Miki mentioned about Anju, she didn't mention it as if she was her mother...
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Post by Peggy » Jun 29th, '11, 08:31

Have yet to watch this drama. However, if Jin returns to his modern life does he retain the memory of being in old Edo and does he remember Saki??? AND..what is to stop him popping back to the past whether to the same old Edo or maybe he now can pick and choose??? Hmmmmmm!! 'very interesting.' A real Laugh In situation....
Remember that TV show?

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Post by asuko1linda » Jun 30th, '11, 05:14

A almost total revamp of the story does not necessarily make an adaption "horrid". Even if it's adapted from a manga but sways too far from the original, can still have its own good qualities.
Unless you are someone who is super loyal to the manga and prefer they copy about 99% from the original. Then often people like those fail to see these good qualities that an adaption can possess.
However, if Jin returns to his modern life does he retain the memory of being in old Edo and does he remember Saki??? AND..what is to stop him popping back to the past whether to the same old Edo or maybe he now can pick and choose??? Hmmmmmm!! 'very interesting.' A real Laugh In situation....
Yes, Jin does retain his memories of being in old Edo period. Time traveling does not alter his memories whatsoever. It simply just takes him to a different time period. And he has no control over it. It seems the source of the time travel was the cancer tumor that Jin removed from the patient in season 1 (whose true identity I won't reveal since you haven't seen it). It seems once the malignant tumor is lost, time travel is no longer possible.

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Post by chibi chibi » Jun 30th, '11, 08:08

Another silent reader here showing love for JIN 2 :D I found it entertaining and I was constantly wanting to know what happens next.
JIN 1 I loved the story of Jin using his knowledge to help those in need. Season 2 definantly followed a more historical storyline showing the Japan moving towards a new era and the turmoil (focusing on Ryoma) and also Jin teaching his methods to others. Two different styles but I think it worked well together. I did however find that sometimes some plots did feel a bit rushed at times which made it hard to keep up with some of the more detailed historical parts, but I guess Im not their target audience either XD (in that I havent got enough knowldege of Japanese history)

The ending I was really happy with, it closed the series well. I loved the cast! Osawa and Ayase were great and I liked how they portrayed their characters. I havent read the manga, so I dont know how closely they resembled the mangas portrayal, but for the drama it was well done.

This was the first drama series that I have been too impatient to wait for subs and watched the raw first with my limited Japanese, I guess for me that really shows how much I enjoyed the series.
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Post by seirin » Jun 30th, '11, 08:09

Toritorisan wrote:I
I think my only irk with Jin 2 is that they let Sakamoto Ryoma die! They spent so much time on trying to prevent his the death, it would have been nicer if he could have lived longer. I really thought he was gonna be saved...
I think it was expected that he would die. Even Jin knew that, he still wanted to try and change history. Similarly to season 1, if someone was meant to die, Jin wouldn't be able to stop it. Like the mother he saved, but she was killed by a random samurai. Jin can only do so much.

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Post by iLLusiOnEr » Jun 30th, '11, 21:23

That was totally unexpected ending but a nice bitter-sweet one. Judging from a few comments here, I guess it wasn't what pictured in the manga, right?
It's kind of sad ending to the fans of romantic ending between Jin-sensei and Saki-san.
. Anyhow, the ending was the best episode from this season. I still prefer last season best. They were many high moments in their episodes compared to this season.

Is there going to be a special episode or a feature film after this? A spin-off for example.A new storyline after Jin-sensei comes back to Tokyo.

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Post by Tempest382 » Jun 30th, '11, 21:48

I enjoyed season 1 and 2 equally. It's awesome seeing time-travel devices in a Edo era plot but it's also nice to be reminded that the history we knew was gradually moving along in the past as well. I enjoyed seeing the end of the bakufu in action and how Jin was enveloped in it.

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Post by Peggy » Jun 30th, '11, 22:53

It is so interesting to see how we are all affected by this series. I really loved the Jin 1 simply for the idea of time travel. Also the fact that we were learning what could possibly happen to a modern doctor thrust back into old Edo. The way he was dealing with a different culture and his gaffes in small scenes was really brought home to me. The fact that we could believe that he could manage to use his modern knowledge to fashion implements, and even approach penicillin and succeed in that time, was seemingly possible.

This time, although I have yet to watch Season II I am not as comfortable with the emphasis on the personal histories of real people who lived back then. Trying to save Ryoma was a big aggravation for me to accept. I would have preferred Jin being apart from that situation and hearing about it from general news of that time. The story with Saki could have been more important and more time spent with that as a very emotional situation. Of course this is my take on all the postings about these events. Must say I have enjoyed the opinions of everyone greatly.

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Post by Toritorisan » Jul 1st, '11, 01:47

seirin wrote:
Toritorisan wrote:I
I think my only irk with Jin 2 is that they let Sakamoto Ryoma die! They spent so much time on trying to prevent his the death, it would have been nicer if he could have lived longer. I really thought he was gonna be saved...
I think it was expected that he would die. Even Jin knew that, he still wanted to try and change history. Similarly to season 1, if someone was meant to die, Jin wouldn't be able to stop it. Like the mother he saved, but she was killed by a random samurai. Jin can only do so much.
Maybe potential spoiler - using tags just in case...
You are right, I figured eventually he would die as it would be inevitable to stop it. But I was still hoping for a "miracle." I think at first, Jin wanted to save him to change history - thinking it was for the better, but later I felt that Jin wanted to save him for more personal reasons, as a friend. Wah! I cried so much when he passed away...
Is the manga finished? Just wondering if there are any chances for specials, movie, etc... I thought the storyline was a really unique concept than usual Japanese medical dramas, so it's sad to see it end.

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Post by mickel1138 » Jul 1st, '11, 02:26

Snif snif, it's over...

I did not see this coming, all I can say: "I don't know what to say..."

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Post by delihle » Jul 1st, '11, 02:34

WOW - What a nice finish for JIN 2! Unexpected and very satisfying. We were a little worried by a lagging story line through the middle episodes of JIN 2, but the finish made it all worthwhile. Looks like Haruka has another period series coming through NHK. We can hardly wait!

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Post by yanie » Jul 1st, '11, 03:54

Just finished the finale ep. Two questions:
1. What's the relation between the embryo-shaped tumor with the time-travel Jin went through? So what if it's a 'vanishing twin'? Does it make Jin's fate is to time-travel and meet his doppelganger?

2. As a fan of Miki, I'd really like to know about that vision of Miki teaching a class that Jin saw in the ending of Season 1. Was that another AU, NOT the world where Miki was Jin's girlfriend NOR it was the world where Miki's surname is Tachibana?

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Post by HandofFate » Jul 1st, '11, 05:06

damn, what a satisfying final episode.

Jin's health gradually declining and losing his abilities to do medicine was pretty emotional. They should have focused on that for the last 3 episodes instead of the Ryoma thing which I didn't care for.

I'm not a manga read of JIN, so I don't have to be one of those 'How dare they temper with the source material!!" people.

Pretty happy bittersweet ending, and the corrective powers of history is scary...

My favorite minor character was probably Saburi. He was always a nice presence whenever he was on-screen.

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Post by seirin » Jul 1st, '11, 06:27

yanie wrote:Just finished the finale ep. Two questions:
1. What's the relation between the embryo-shaped tumor with the time-travel Jin went through? So what if it's a 'vanishing twin'? Does it make Jin's fate is to time-travel and meet his doppelganger?

2. As a fan of Miki, I'd really like to know about that vision of Miki teaching a class that Jin saw in the ending of Season 1. Was that another AU, NOT the world where Miki was Jin's girlfriend NOR it was the world where Miki's surname is Tachibana?
The embryo tumour is the catalyst for the time travel. They had to make it connect somehow for him to slip through time. Some peeps have time machines, Jin has a tumour :lol and the tumour seems to be his best buddy :O

I'm not sure what you mean vanishing twin. From the way they seem to describe it. They use "parallel universe". It's a continuous cycle of jumping from one parallel to another so the two same Jins don't really meet up or briefly only?

Also with Miki teaching a class. It's one of the possibilities of the future. It's always changing because of decisions made in the past. Miki's future changed when Nokaze married a foreigner. Similarly when Jin does certain things, the photo kept changing until it disappeared. When the photo disappeared, Jin's relationship with Miki also changed. What doesn't seem to change or doesn't seem to change is Miki's fate will be the same.
Miki still ends up on the operating table with Jin as the surgeon. And most probably, Miki will end up in a coma again. I don't think Jin has affected modern medicine too much.

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Post by iLLusiOnEr » Jul 1st, '11, 06:34

yanie wrote:Just finished the finale ep. Two questions:
1. What's the relation between the embryo-shaped tumor with the time-travel Jin went through? So what if it's a 'vanishing twin'? Does it make Jin's fate is to time-travel and meet his doppelganger?

2. As a fan of Miki, I'd really like to know about that vision of Miki teaching a class that Jin saw in the ending of Season 1. Was that another AU, NOT the world where Miki was Jin's girlfriend NOR it was the world where Miki's surname is Tachibana?
Two valid questions! That's why I also wonder if there should be an SP or feature film to wrap things up after Jin-sensei came back to Tokyo.I felt bad thoguh for him and all his version in the parallel universe if this is his fate. They all have to went through this cycle/loop in their life.

Another question about Tachibana Miki, I don't think she's a daughter of Anju. Most probably she's a 3rd or 4th generation after Saki. Timeline-wise. It's almost 150 years after Anju was born.

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Post by seirin » Jul 1st, '11, 06:53

Peggy wrote:It is so interesting to see how we are all affected by this series. I really loved the Jin 1 simply for the idea of time travel. Also the fact that we were learning what could possibly happen to a modern doctor thrust back into old Edo. The way he was dealing with a different culture and his gaffes in small scenes was really brought home to me. The fact that we could believe that he could manage to use his modern knowledge to fashion implements, and even approach penicillin and succeed in that time, was seemingly possible.

This time, although I have yet to watch Season II I am not as comfortable with the emphasis on the personal histories of real people who lived back then. Trying to save Ryoma was a big aggravation for me to accept. I would have preferred Jin being apart from that situation and hearing about it from general news of that time. The story with Saki could have been more important and more time spent with that as a very emotional situation. Of course this is my take on all the postings about these events. Must say I have enjoyed the opinions of everyone greatly.
You should watch season 2. I agree with others that it was kind of slow near the middle with all the war stuff and focus on Ryoma. But some other episodes were pretty enlightening.
I really enjoyed some of the episodes such as

1) Donuts are good for you! O_o I always thought they were bad.

2) The prison scene. I never knew they had gangs in prison during Edo and the rank was by the number of mats one sat on. I also learned how to kill bugs that crawl into your ear ^^;

3) The revelation that saving Ohatsu meant the non-existence of this Jin. So either Jin disappears or Ohatsu dies :O History is full of variables and tangled webs. One action changed can have dire effects on something else.
I also liked the ending. It cleared up all questions I think. They explained about possibilities of what could have happened to Jin during the time slip. Also what happens to everyone else after Jin left. And how Miki turned out in the future. Everything was tied up properly so I doubt there will be any sequels, movies, specials or such.

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Post by yanie » Jul 1st, '11, 07:11

seirin wrote:I'm not sure what you mean vanishing twin. From the way they seem to describe it. They use "parallel universe". It's a continuous cycle of jumping from one parallel to another so the two same Jins don't really meet up or briefly only?
Yamamoto Koji (lol, dunno his character's name) explained why the tumour looked like an embryo, as "vanishing twin". Here's some explanation of the syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin

That's why I asked what's the point of explaining it as "vanishing twin" and how is it related to the time-travel. I pretty much get the gist how the tumour is the catalyst of the time-travel, but I just don't get the theory.

seirin wrote:Also with Miki teaching a class. It's one of the possibilities of the future. It's always changing because of decisions made in the past.
I was thinking this way in the beginning. But then I remember what Jin said before Yamamoto Koji left the classroom. "So did the doctor finally change the history? He went to the B parallel world, right? That means, the B world history might be different than the A world's history he knew. Which means, I didn't change anything at all, in the end."

This means, regardless how the manga went, the drama's writer concludes that even though Jin went to the past, but it is a different past than his world's past, the differences happened in the Edo period where Jin was, was not because Jin changed it, but simply because it is a B world. Which means, even since Season 1, the Edo period where Jin exist, have Miki as Tachibana Miki in the future. There's suppose to be no changes at all.

So I'm assuming "Miki teaching class" vision in the ending of S1 was just a plothole :P
But how I wish the TBS production guys would be willing to develop that as something more and make it a sequel. Hehe, never mind... I'm just a desperate JINxMIKI fan :lol

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Post by seirin » Jul 1st, '11, 07:35

yanie wrote: Yamamoto Koji (lol, dunno his character's name) explained why the tumour looked like an embryo, as "vanishing twin". Here's some explanation of the syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin

That's why I asked what's the point of explaining it as "vanishing twin" and how is it related to the time-travel. I pretty much get the gist how the tumour is the catalyst of the time-travel, but I just don't get the theory.
er...I don't know how that relates. Is he trying to grasp at straws? It didn't really vanish. They operated on Jin and removed the tumour. How the tumour disappeared is when the other Jin fell through the time slip carrying it with it. When he time slipped, somehow the tumour disappeared and end up in his head. Don't ask me how... So it exists in his head until he time slips back into the future and operates on himself to remove it. It's a continuous cycle happening at parallel universe.
yanie wrote: I was thinking this way in the beginning. But then I remember what Jin said before Yamamoto Koji left the classroom. "So did the doctor finally change the history? He went to the B parallel world, right? That means, the B world history might be different than the A world's history he knew. Which means, I didn't change anything at all, in the end."

This means, regardless how the manga went, the drama's writer concludes that even though Jin went to the past, but it is a different past than his world's past, the differences happened in the Edo period where Jin was, was not because Jin changed it, but simply because it is a B world. Which means, even since Season 1, the Edo period where Jin exist, have Miki as Tachibana Miki in the future. There's suppose to be no changes at all.

So I'm assuming "Miki teaching class" vision in the ending of S1 was just a plothole :P
But how I wish the TBS production guys would be willing to develop that as something more and make it a sequel. Hehe, never mind... I'm just a desperate JINxMIKI fan :lol
Hmm...seems complicated. You can say if it's parallel and Jin's not in his original universe, Miki Tachibana already existed. However, they showed the picture changing several times, every time Jin did something he shouldn't have. That meant history was changing doesn't it? So having "Miki surgeon and his fiance" become "Miki the teacher" to "Miki Tachibana private doctor" are due to changes made by him or indirectly affected by him. If the future is changed, his present self who went back to the past and didn't have Miki as his fiance, might change the future again because his goals would be different. Hence causing another rift in time and another change to the future. A vicious cycle...

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Post by yanie » Jul 1st, '11, 08:55

seirin wrote:It didn't really vanish. They operated on Jin and removed the tumour. How the tumour disappeared is when the other Jin fell through the time slip carrying it with it. When he time slipped, somehow the tumour disappeared and end up in his head. Don't ask me how...
Have you watched Ep11? The tumour didn't disappear and end up in his head.
The tumour was in Jin's head since he was born, his mother was pregnant with 2 fertilized eggs (to-be-born a twin), but then the twin's embryo was absorped inside embryo-Jin. And then Jin grew up still with his twin's embryo inside his head, and it developed into a cancer. Well, at least, that's Yamamoto Koji's explanation XD

What I want to know is, what's the relation of this "vanishing twin" syndrome explanation with Jin's fate of time-travelling?

seirin wrote:Hmm...seems complicated. You can say if it's parallel and Jin's not in his original universe, Miki Tachibana already existed. However, they showed the picture changing several times, every time Jin did something he shouldn't have. That meant history was changing doesn't it?
Ah, sou ka! Totally forgot abt the changing picture. Seem like in Season 1 brings forth the theory that every Jin's decision changes the future.
But then suddenly the conclusion of Season 2 is that Jin didn't change anything at all?
Yappari, plothole da :P Inconsistencies between S1 and S2.

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Post by zettaiKaren » Jul 1st, '11, 09:59

IMHO, Manga >>>>>> Drama by a country mile. The drama has a lot of unnecessary narratives and dialogs which don't really move the story forward, thus making it felt draggy and caused a lot of pacing problems (that's why I only skimmed thru S1 and S2).

Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.

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Post by yanie » Jul 1st, '11, 10:08

zettaiKaren wrote:Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
The fact that I feel like reading the manga now bcoz I'm not satisfied with the drama's ending, perhaps it was quite a successful strategy by the manga-ka to let TBS "bastardize"(quoting your word :P) his work. With different plots and different endings, viewers would want to read the manga too, to compare, or to find satisfying answers :roll I think the manga-ka should've just continue the manga :P

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Post by seirin » Jul 1st, '11, 13:59

yanie wrote: Have you watched Ep11? The tumour didn't disappear and end up in his head.
The tumour was in Jin's head since he was born, his mother was pregnant with 2 fertilized eggs (to-be-born a twin), but then the twin's embryo was absorped inside embryo-Jin. And then Jin grew up still with his twin's embryo inside his head, and it developed into a cancer. Well, at least, that's Yamamoto Koji's explanation XD

What I want to know is, what's the relation of this "vanishing twin" syndrome explanation with Jin's fate of time-travelling?
I saw ep 11 raw so I don't know the details ^^; Koji's explanation in Japanese is too complicated for me to understand ^^; I just notice him drawing things on the board and generalized he's making a parallel universe assumption.
yanie wrote: Ah, sou ka! Totally forgot abt the changing picture. Seem like in Season 1 brings forth the theory that every Jin's decision changes the future.
But then suddenly the conclusion of Season 2 is that Jin didn't change anything at all?
Yappari, plothole da :P Inconsistencies between S1 and S2.
Well, S2 say he didn't change anything at all maybe because it's already changed? Maybe too little to have affect in the future? Or maybe because history is changed, it's already part of history in his parallel world. What he does in the past affects the future slightly, but that's already become history by the time he's born. When he grows up and travels again second time, third time, history changes already. It's like a cycle. 2010 Jin goes back to Edo, Edo Jin ends up back in 2010 when 2010 Jin falls back into Edo again. Or are they saying it's one cycle and the 2010 Jin that disappeared is forever the second time around? O_o

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Post by kajukaju » Jul 1st, '11, 16:34

Q: what became of Nokaze's husband?

I watched both seasons of Jin with no subs. I understand everything pretty well. He's now in a parallel universe in which things are different. His girlfriend is no longer in a coma, and doesn't recognize him.

But I somehow missed one thing: why didn't Nokaze's husband take the baby? Instead it was adopted by Saki-san. What become of the Frenchman?

I also don't entirely "get" why the Edo period doctors somehow "forgot" the mysterious doctor from the future. In Saki's letter, he is just "maru maru". In the parallel future, Jin researches the past and finds references to effects of his presence in the Edo period, but no actual reference to himself. This is a little bit dodgy, logically.

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Post by Aoiblue » Jul 1st, '11, 17:06

....whatever happend to that Prostitue that Kyotaro liked? XD


Anyways, I find that the ending was one of the best I've ever watched. And although I would like to read the manga, I think I'm pretty satisfied with the series so reading won't be neccessary (though yeah, the manga probably is better than the drama lol).

But yeah, JIN was awesome :salut:

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Post by zettaiKaren » Jul 1st, '11, 18:33

kajukaju wrote:Q: what became of Nokaze's husband?

I watched both seasons of Jin with no subs. I understand everything pretty well. He's now in a parallel universe in which things are different. His girlfriend is no longer in a coma, and doesn't recognize him.

But I somehow missed one thing: why didn't Nokaze's husband take the baby? Instead it was adopted by Saki-san. What become of the Frenchman?

I also don't entirely "get" why the Edo period doctors somehow "forgot" the mysterious doctor from the future. In Saki's letter, he is just "maru maru". In the parallel future, Jin researches the past and finds references to effects of his presence in the Edo period, but no actual reference to himself. This is a little bit dodgy, logically.
The answers to your questions are, basically:

The manga's ending is totally different, and these are all accounted for (or not because
Jin's present day girlfriend doesn't exist in the manga and the drama's BTTF-like photograph is just a clumsy plot device to give Miki more screen time, and IMO made things even more confusing and illogical.

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jul 2nd, '11, 02:55

They kind of dragged out Nokaze's part in season 2 as well to give Miki more screen time. I see no point of her being there until the end. It was just weird.
*edit*
I made a Itoshiki Hibiyo MV for Jin/Saki. Don't know if anybody can actually see it. (TBS may block it. Dunno.)

zettaiKaren wrote:IMHO, Manga >>>>>> Drama by a country mile. The drama has a lot of unnecessary narratives and dialogs which don't really move the story forward, thus making it felt draggy and caused a lot of pacing problems (that's why I only skimmed thru S1 and S2).

Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
Most drama fans think the drama is the best thing since slice bread so they probably won't touch the manga so they probably ever see the epicness of his manga. It got butchered for nothing. Oh well.

I'm not a manga fan or anything but I did skim through the manga raws (for the interest of Jin and Saki development.) And even for that little exposure I was able to feel that it's grandiose and epic. As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin? As for the ending, I know they're completely differently. They could have followed the manga regardless of how they changed the story in the first part. They had the chance to follow the manga in the 2nd part. That didn't happen and so I couldn't get the explanation of the manga from the drama. So anyways in the manga, Edo Jin came back to Edo successfully and he went to cure Saki. Then after that I saw Jin waking up in modern world with memory of Edo. Which Jin is that?
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by avieamber » Jul 2nd, '11, 09:32

HandofFate wrote:damn, what a satisfying final episode.

Jin's health gradually declining and losing his abilities to do medicine was pretty emotional. They should have focused on that for the last 3 episodes instead of the Ryoma thing which I didn't care for.

I'm not a manga read of JIN, so I don't have to be one of those 'How dare they temper with the source material!!" people.

Pretty happy bittersweet ending, and the corrective powers of history is scary...

My favorite minor character was probably Saburi. He was always a nice presence whenever he was on-screen.
Totally agree! It was very well done, everything just sorta wrapped up nicely. Even moved me to tears!
Of course, was a bit disappointed that he didn't get to stay in the edo era and be with Saki, but knowing how Saki survived and lived a long life, was definitely more than enough for him. Also, what a surprise to have Miki as adopted grandchild! Wow...everything was connected and I love how he didn't even really bother to find Miki in the present world, but was more concerned about Saki xD But it's a nice touch to have Miki as the adopted grandchild. Finale was excellent. But what's with the whole Miki getting tumor thing? will there be a sequel or that was just a teaser, cliff-hanger for fans? lol...
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Post by zettaiKaren » Jul 2nd, '11, 16:08

Hideaki_Ito wrote:As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin?
Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.
So anyways in the manga, Edo Jin came back to Edo successfully and he went to cure Saki. Then after that I saw Jin waking up in modern world with memory of Edo. Which Jin is that?
I think that would be Jin in the new time line. Noticed that in the manga after Jin got back to Edo and saved Saki, they had no children, which might be a deliberate attempt to avoid changing Jin's ancestors' future. Jin'd pretty much altered history (as he knows it) in a fairly significant way after the 1st time travel, so from then on they should be in an alternate(new) time line. The drama explains this as a parallel universes, but I prefer different time-lines as parallel universes shouldn't interact w/ each other. My feeling is these 2 time-lines did cross at 1 point because the same person(s) occupies the same space/time continuum (which may be the cause of the time travel) during the 2 struggles on the staircase. Therefore Jin 'the patient' must have gone forward in time on the new time-line, which makes sense as otherwise this would become a re-ocurring event (sort of like an infinte time loop). Also the 2nd time travel happened during the night, so it's possible that Jin 'the patient' is too pre-occupied w/ saving Saki to notice any difference in the environment. Plus Jin noticed that he seems to be familiar w/ the new surroundings and the new medical technologies already; the only thing gained from the encounter is the memory of Jin 'the patient'. And for those who haven't read the manga, the ending had the 'new' Jin met Nokaze's great grand daughter, and both seems to have some kind of special feeling for each other ...
Anyway, this is my theory; as to why the time travel occurred and the locations it occurred, who knows. Every time travel story requires some kind of suspension of disbelief, and if you don't buy that then there will be no story to tell.
Last edited by zettaiKaren on Jul 2nd, '11, 16:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by seirin » Jul 2nd, '11, 16:22

avieamber wrote:
But what's with the whole Miki getting tumor thing? will there be a sequel or that was just a teaser, cliff-hanger for fans? lol...
I think that's like all those things he tried to do before. He can try to change things, but no matter how hard, there are things pre-destined or meant to happen. Whether Miki can over come the hurdle is another matter. They didn't mention it.

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Post by Hideaki_Ito » Jul 3rd, '11, 02:04

zettaiKaren wrote:Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.
That's why I prefer manga Jin. I gave drama Jin a theme song, "Yesterday" from the Beatles. "Suddenly I'm not half the man I used to be. There's a shadow hanging over me..." :lol
I think that would be Jin in the new time line. Noticed that in the manga after Jin got back to Edo and saved Saki, they had no children, which might be a deliberate attempt to avoid changing Jin's ancestors' future. Jin'd pretty much altered history (as he knows it) in a fairly significant way after the 1st time travel, so from then on they should be in an alternate(new) time line. The drama explains this as a parallel universes, but I prefer different time-lines as parallel universes shouldn't interact w/ each other. My feeling is these 2 time-lines did cross at 1 point because the same person(s) occupies the same space/time continuum (which may be the cause of the time travel) during the 2 struggles on the staircase. Therefore Jin 'the patient' must have gone forward in time on the new time-line, which makes sense as otherwise this would become a re-ocurring event (sort of like an infinte time loop). Also the 2nd time travel happened during the night, so it's possible that Jin 'the patient' is too pre-occupied w/ saving Saki to notice any difference in the environment. Plus Jin noticed that he seems to be familiar w/ the new surroundings and the new medical technologies already; the only thing gained from the encounter is the memory of Jin 'the patient'. And for those who haven't read the manga, the ending had the 'new' Jin met Nokaze's great grand daughter, and both seems to have some kind of special feeling for each other ...

Story teller always used time traveling as an infinite loop. That's the traditional approach. The point when the story shows how it loops is the climax so the audience would go oh so that's how it is. Jin drama followed that path. Jin manga seemed to take the a different approach. It seems like the author is telling me before the story started the was a loop but what makes it a story isn't about the loop but it becomes a story because the loop breaks. So the climax here is not to show how it loops but to show how the loop was broken (when Edo Jin successfully came back to Edo.)

I understand what you're saying about the time line branches out to a new time line when time traveling occurred. So the Jin in question is Jin of modern time in the new time line. He wasn't one who just got his tumor removed. He still has the full head of hair. I just skimmed through the last chap again. :lol The memory he gained I can only assume that he got from Edo Jin since since they're connect. In the end he did say he was able to see what Edo Jin was seeing or something like that. I did kind of guessed that part about Jin meeting Nokaze's descendant. They can possibly get together in the future (maybe after new Jin got over Saki.) :mrgreen:
:wub: (Masaya Kato, Abe Hiroshi, Osawa Takao, Fukuyama Masaharu, Fujiki Naohito, Tanihara Shosuke, Takizawa Hideaki, Kuninaka Ryoko, Tamayama Tetsuji, Tamaki Hiroshi, Ayase Haruka, Ueno Juri) :wub:

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Post by Yukster » Jul 8th, '11, 08:35

yanie wrote:
2. As a fan of Miki, I'd really like to know about that vision of Miki teaching a class that Jin saw in the ending of Season 1. Was that another AU, NOT the world where Miki was Jin's girlfriend NOR it was the world where Miki's surname is Tachibana?
In the last episode of Season 2, Miki Tachibana mentions to Jin that although she is a medical historian, but also works part time at a juku (cram school) in Yokohama.

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Post by ices56 » Jul 24th, '11, 21:45

hi, is there any english translated version of the manga ? can somebody please post the link or may be pm me the link ?

(otherwise the Japanese version would be ok too)
Last edited by ices56 on Jul 26th, '11, 17:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ices56 » Jul 26th, '11, 17:48

zettaiKaren wrote:
Hideaki_Ito wrote:As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin?
Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.
Watched both seasons and it reminded me of the Hollywood film "The Adjustment Bureau". It's like the life of Jin's is being with... He did not only have to loose Tomonaga Miki, but also Tachibana Saki - who he spent like 6-7 with, may not be as married couple, but still, with a lots of love, affections. :-(

Purpose of this time travel is I don't understand, it can be an accident or a deliberate messing with Jin's life.. And after spending some painful 6-7 years he still had to loose Saki and found himself stuck in another world/ timeline with Tachibana Miki. If the purpose was to undo the unsuccessful operation on Tomonaga Miki, then it was probably one of the most sadistic paths that could be there. After the timeline was changed, the deamlike memory and feeling of loosing the loved ones forever was absolutely the most heartbreaking. Even if it felt like a dream, the impact was so severe that Saki decided to remain unmarried for rest of her life, and we don't know what will happen to Jin, wondering if he has to fall in love with Tachibana Miki, then he could fall in love with Nokaze as well... and that's not what happened.

It's only possible a person won't remain sane like this... To think, it's only normal that Jin whines .....

Well i will love to see a season 3 of Jin where Saki won't have to remember Minakata Jin as "O O Sensei" and they can be together for the rest of their life.

Even though the series has been a master piece, the last episode was just too heartbreaking and became "The Heartbreaking Story of Love and Loss Beyond Time and Space" and it leaves a strong feeling of incompleteness, as if being cursed by the god of time ..... :/

p.s. I just remembered the film "The Time Traveler's Wife" too.....

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Post by yanaliao » Aug 16th, '11, 18:29

seirin wrote:I think most people suspected it was himself way back in the beginning anyhow. We just needed the "okay" from the writer. It was kind of obvious how the stranger knew where things were in the hospital (where medicine was placed, where the fetus is located), where to hide to get around everyone, what medical supplies to pack. If it really was Ryoma he wouldn't have taken such a short time to make it to the fire escape. He would need hours to check every room in the hospital and somehow know where to sneak around so people don't see him. The hospital is full of patients. I don't think he would know to escape using the fire escape.
I've been reading 20 pages non-stop of your discussion with this Jdorama 'coz I needed to enlighten myself. It's hard to watch it alone, neh? haha... Thanks for the different opinions from you guys, I've been enlightened a lot. :D

Moving forward, this theory is reasonable.
It's possible that Jin has returned to the present but before he was traveled to the past. Which concludes that someone in this forum(sorry forgot the name) mentioned that this might be a cycle. As mentioned in a past episode, it might already be his duty to save these people in Edo Period, that's why given the chance that it was Jin who was the mysterious bandaged guy, he knows which instruments and operating paraphernalia that are of non-existence in Edo Period.
I got so confused when the bag was complete with Anesthesia and the likes, maybe this does answer the question in my mind. :) :D
Also, with regards to the picture's disappearance, it's possible that 未來's ancestor is 野風, but she has yet to mate with someone to have bore 未來's mother or grandmother. I was thinking maybe it doesn't matter if it was Jin or the one who bought her from the brothel who mated with her as long as she gives birth, it will lead to the existence of 未來.

As for Jin, is it possible that the picture never existed because he is already destined not to go back to the present anymore? He was determined to go back before because of 未來, but now that she's gone, even his determination to go back has gone as well. That's what happened when he opted to bury the picture and operate 野風's breast.
*sorry for the characters, I'm not so sure if I got the names right in romanji, I was watching a Chinese subbed Jdorama all the while.*
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Post by Keikan » Aug 16th, '11, 20:57

I may be in the minority here but I actually really enjoyed season 2. I liked the fact that it was less focused on the medical stuff and more on the actual mystery as to why he was in Edo. I haven't read the manga so I didn't particularly care about the Jin and Saki pairing (which I found was rather forced this season). I thought the ending was really satisfying though (although I'm still struggling to come to grips with is implications)! :P
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Post by curlywurly » Dec 3rd, '11, 14:10

Just started series 1 with some friends and a big bottle of single malt. After a lot of duds, must say I'm enjoying this quite a bit, or maybe it's the alcohol talking...

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Post by badcompany » Jan 18th, '12, 15:34

Anyone else not dig the flagrant overuse of "tell me how I should feel" music?

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Post by sunflower63 » Oct 24th, '12, 17:26

I read this long thread whilst I was watching the two dramas JIN and JIN 2 and wanted to say that I enjoyed all of your comments. I also found the subject of time travelling backwards and forwards a little confusing so I only concentrated on the main storyline of Jin being in the Edo era and trying to bring change in the medical and historical world. I personally appreciated the character of Saki very much indeed mostly because she was extremely wise and patient, sometimes even more than Jin himself and therefore I wasn't too happy with how the story ended for her. I also agree with what someone said on here that throughout the series it seemed that Jin was more interested in his friendship with Ryoma than in his relationship with Saki only to realize how important she was for him when it was too late. In any case I absolutely LOVED these dramas and I consider them to be amongst the best Japanese dramas I have watched so far.

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Post by Peggy » Oct 24th, '12, 23:29

sunflower,
So glad you got to see Jin and that you enjoyed. I loved the first one best as I thought they did not solve the time slip too well in Jin 2 and I did not like the end and being left adrift as to what really happened to Jin.

I think Yanaliao asked about the possibility of the geisha having a child with the man who bought her from the Geisha house. That did not complete, because after the cancer operaton she was no longer desirable as a beautiful woman. She was actually glad to be free of the geisha life and went on to be a teacher on her own. She left Dr Jin and Saki and Ryoma and it was that lovely scene when the snow began to fall as she left them. this was all in Jin 1 of course.

In Jin 2 she finally agreed to marry the French man who seemed to really love her and they were very happy. then she eventually had a child.At least that is how I remember but I could be wrong. It's quite a while since I watched these dramas.

So many lines of interest in this drama and many discussions that we had over the first one.

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Post by Tran » Nov 7th, '12, 10:11

First of all, Thanks God d_addicts is back online!

I'm a late comer to this series, I'm not a very bright person, the time travelling thing is always confusing me, can never understand the theory... And so is this one. I watched the whole thing but still confused about what had happened! Was it all just a recollection of Jin's past life?

Must say the acting very good, Ayase Haruka not only has a pretty face but she can act too. And must check out other works from Osawa Takao, he makes me stay awake till 3 am watching Jin!

This Jin is way way better then Korean Jin!

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Post by Peggy » Nov 15th, '12, 02:56

@Tran,

Agree re Korean Jin It never should have been called Dr. Jin in the first place. totally different take on the basic idea.

Osawa Takao is just too gorgeous for words. He is so good just to look at and he is really a very sensitive actor. He is also good in comedy.

I decided to just accept this drama at face value. I believed it all happened and he really went back into time. I don't know why and I really don't very much care. I simply went with the flow and enjoyed it all. The JIN 2 was not as satisfactory and I did not really like the end but it was still worth watching. Just not as good as the first JIN.

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Post by kotsukotsu » Nov 19th, '12, 23:00

Any drama about time travel is going to be a bit silly. Can't really happen and doesn't make any sense, or we would see time travelers among us right now, and it also violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics (read Stephen Hawkins if you need an explanation of this).

But when you suspend beliief and take this time travel to have actually happened, there is a facinating culture clash between a modern Japanese person and people from the Edo era. The sense of time, order of society, belief in supernatural causes of disease, ideas of nutrition, etc. are complete culture shocks to someone like Jin from the modern age. Those of us who have spent some time in Tokyo see the Edo era versus the modern era city all the time, i.e. parts of the subway and train system track the old gates of Edo castle and the system of castle moats.

I particularly like JIN 1 due to the central role of the nuts and bolts of technology to save people's lives. You come to see that it takes the efforts of many people to deveolop simple elements. JIN 2 is interesting because it ties together the various unexplained threads of the plot of JIN 1.

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Post by seirin » Nov 20th, '12, 02:14

Hideaki_Ito wrote: As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world.
He didn't have any intention to save the world in Jin 1. All he wanted to do was speed up medical technology in hopes of saving Miki in the future. If he evolved medicine faster, maybe in the future, they could go further and there might be a cure to save Miki by the time she has a tumour in the future. It was for his own selfish reasons. When it came to saving others and affecting the future, he got hesitant. It was Saki who kept pushing him to save people because he's a doctor. He should do his job.

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Post by nangelique » Jan 24th, '13, 00:53

Hi, I've been trying to look for where I could either watch or download this drama but I just couldn't find it anywhere? I tried downloading the torrents here but for some reason it wouldn't download. Can anyone help me? Thank you!

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Post by kotsukotsu » Feb 27th, '13, 20:44

By the way, a torrent has just been posted on D-Addicts about the Nokaze character, explaining the historical context:

"Rekishi Hiwa Historia #135 - 2013.01.23.H264.378p.mkv"

I think this provides great background to understand the Nokaze character in JIN 1 and JIN 2.

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