[Discussion] Tenchijin 48th taiga drama

[groink]

This is all so childish.

You need to understand something here... There are thousands upon thousands of hours worth of Japanese drama material that hasn't seen the light of day on the Internet. This is caused by this very issue you call "childish". Call it whatever you want, but our ultimate goal here is to encourage contributors to unleash their unseen videos, and to make it so that their contributions are not taken advantage of by these kinds of people. That is why some of us are trying to fight these web sites - to show due diligence that we're doing something about the problem. Most of you just sit around, monitor the torrent page and wait for new stuff. If you're not going to contribute to the longer term for the community as a whole, then I suggest you don't say anything. You do not have a right to make comments like you did - especially when current and future contributors will read it and think twice before sharing. These comments may clear your chest, but it is not constructive to our overall cause.

--- groink

[samurie]

well i have sat back and bitten my tongue on this for a while, but I feel I have to post
as one of the many that love the samurai drama series I have always enjoyed the
pleasure I get from watching these type of drama's, the only way I can watch them
is with subs as I dont know japanese, but truely love these drama's..

I also think it is very childish to stop posting because of a few that can not follow
the rules, to become jdrama nazi's is far worse then what they do as a whole
communitiy now suffers because of a lousy few, try to think of the many that now
miss out on the true enjoyment of watching these drama's because we all dont have
the ability to watch them in raw format, I would like you to really thenk about the
people that will miss out on seeing this program and hopefully change your mind.
As so many of us now stand dissapointed on your stand against these few..!!!

hope you truely think about all the fans that now suffer from your stand / action...

play nice and leave in peace.....

[groink]

I also think it is very childish to stop posting because of a few that can not follow the rules, to become jdrama nazi's is far worse then what they do as a whole communitiy now suffers because of a lousy few, try to think of the many that now miss out on the true enjoyment of watching these drama's because we all dont have the ability to watch them in raw format, I would like you to really thenk about the people that will miss out on seeing this program and hopefully change your mind. As so many of us now stand dissapointed on your stand against these few..!!!

We ARE thinking about the community. As I mentioned in my last post, I'm doing two things here. First, I'm encouraging people to bring their unseen dramas out of the vaults and onto the Internet. But in order to do this, we must prepare the Internet so that the uploaders' wishes of not having their videos be used for profit. You, samurie, are thinking only of yourself and one taiga drama. I'm thinking about the thousands of hours of potential material PLUS Tenchijin. Any person here who says **** like "Think about the fans," we ARE thinking about the fans. But we're not going to treat Tenchijin fans special here.

As for your poor use of the word "nazi"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law

--- groink

[veritati]

Lemme get this, you are trying to get more dorama uploaded but at the same time preventing them from being.. uploaded?! Hm...it doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong. I am just trying to play devil's advocate here.

Like I said previously, you will not be able to police the internet - no matter how hard you try or how many people you send out on patrol. It is an IMPOSSIBLE task. It is unfortunate that some people disobey the uploader's request, but the only way you have any control over them is to not upload at all.

Anything in digital form - not taking ethics into consideration - is fair game. Hollywood and the music industry can't control their works from getting illegally disseminated so what make you think a small website like DA can, other than not uploading? We're all enjoying works illegally. If someone think they can make some money off of these works and risk whatever legal repercussions, then let them. (Whoever is the original uploader already faces these same legal issues. So if you chose to upload, you're already taking that risk. So why care anymore?) If people want to watch poor quality dorama from a streaming site, that's their choice. There are people out there who don't have the technical savvy to download HQ stuff so they chose that route. Some people are just too lazy or addicted to wait a few extra hours to DL a HQ file. And there are those who cheat their employers through these easily accessible streaming sites. Don't get me started on that. Me personally, I cannot enjoy anything that I can't put on my 46" AQUOS.

So again, if you truly want to share dorama with the community, why care if someone takes advantage of your kindness? True kindness is something you show without expecting anything in return or impose restrictions. (If it's money you give to an endowment or charity, then it's a different story. But that's not true kindness in a sense, either.) Anyway, it's unfortunate streaming sites are ungrateful to the uploaders but there's no way to stop them. Let's just put it out there and let people enjoy. If someone is bitter about not making money, then strike a deal with these streaming sites. Otherwise, don't complain.

I am not fluent but I can understand Japanese a bit so this preemptive measure has no effect on me. I saw a discussion and decided to put in my 2 pennies. And I don't run any website so...

[xploring]

First, I'm encouraging people to bring their unseen dramas out of the vaults and onto the Internet. But in order to do this, we must prepare the Internet so that the uploaders' wishes of not having their videos be used for profit. You, samurie, are thinking only of yourself and one taiga drama.

I think some people are happy with one taiga series a year. There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone have their own preferences and priorities, and trying to do what they think is right. It's a shame that they are different here, but well, we all got to live with it I guess. There's no need to get personal and finger point back and forth.

[groink]

I give up on explaining myself. Until those episodes are removed from the streaming sites, don't look forward to any more uploading by Koala. If someone else has access to this series, feel free to upload. But if you do, do NOT place disclaimers, conditions or other agreements of any kind on the episodes. And upload with the understanding that even I can freely use your uploads whatever way I wish - including selling them for profit.

--- groink

[samurie]

lets hope that someone else will continue this series without the so called
"disclaimers, conditions or other agreements"

people will always profit from other peoples work, there is no way to stop this..
all your doing is placing your loyal fans of d addicts in cyberspace limbo waiting
for some eleventh hour solution from other parties. Which makes us all upset while
we are missing our taiga drama.

groink I really think your reasoning on this is wrong, and not in the best intrest
of so many taiga drama fans that need koala series to continue....

search your heart for the right decision on this issue..

[krydda01]

Hmm, this discussion seems to be going round in circles. So why am I writing this? Well, maybe I like circles...

Here are my humble thoughts:
1.) It's up to any uploader if they want to upload or not and if they want to use disclaimers, conditions or other agreements
2.) The only reason for anyone to upload is to share with "the fans" (and maybe to feel good at heart ;-)
3.) "The fans" want the uploaders to upload (no kidding)
4.) It's tough for "the fans" if an uploader stops uploading in the middle of a series
5.) "The fans" might think it's better if you don't start uploading at all if you might stop before the end
6.) If an uploader decides not to start uploading because of the possibility of stopping before it's completed, we might miss out on uploads that would never have been stopped
7.) It is tough for "the fans" if an uploader stops uploading in the middle of a series, yes, but let's not take this out of proportions. If it's so heart breaking, don't start watching before you have the whole series.
8.) Yes, I'm a "fan" and miss out on Tenchijin as well, but then I haven't started watching it yet (but I have the 5 episodes sitting and waiting and hoping ;-)
9.) There might be a smaller risk of older dramas ending up on streaming sites?
10.) Lists usually have 10 items, but I guess I was done after 9

[manifestus]

Generally I don't bother to post replies but the fact that you (veritati and samurie) can't wrap your head around a simple concept is amusing beyond belief. The point is NOT to police the internet -- but it relies on people giving a damn and doing what the uploaders and subbers are asking of them. It's too bad that you and everyone else feels jilted -- but maybe you all should direct your anger at the right place.

Nobody owes the folks who stream or randomly download stuff a damn thing. And THAT is basically what sums this whole situation up. Nobody owes you. Nobody should have to put up with people disregarding them, even if it's only a few. And if you plead and nobody listens, then you are basically FORCING the issue of requiring subbers and uploaders to shut down and use the one weapon that they have -- to deprive everyone. It's not that complicated. And whining about it here (in particular) just pisses all of us off. So shut up and go away unless you can add something productive to this whole thing or figure out a better alternative that doesn't involve pure self-gratification.

Appealing to people to find it in their heart to do something when they are blatantly being disregarded for doing all this free work ... that is ridiculous. At a minimum you should be helping to get those streaming websites shut down rather than complaining and getting all emo about what you think OTHER people should do to help YOU feel better/make your life more fulfilling.

all your doing is placing your loyal fans of d addicts in cyberspace limbo waiting
for some eleventh hour solution from other parties. Which makes us all upset while
we are missing our taiga drama.

Actually, most of us could care less. If you really care that much about being in limbo, let those streaming sites and other outlets know how much pain this is causing. Good grief.

[samurie]

Manifestus, do us all a favor and stay silent, you must live in a dream world if you
think that people don't use uploads from here for profit, it happens all the time and will
always continue simply because human nature makes people want to profit from
others hard work, I was simply stating that its unfair to stop uploading a series
because people are trying to profit from it, it will happen no matter how you try to
talk to these people, they wont listen as that's the nature of those kind of people.
I'm sad that you choose a negative attitude to this problem and feel that you have
to be verbally abusive about it, there is no need to tell people to shut up, its our
right to state how we feel about this, if you don't like it - don't read it. no need for
drama trolls here mate...

[manifestus]

Manifestus, do us all a favor and stay silent, you must live in a dream world if you
think that people don't use uploads from here for profit, it happens all the time and will
always continue simply because human nature makes people want to profit from
others hard work

Did I say or indicate something like this? No. I merely noted that the people doing ALL THE WORK have the final say. And whining about it like a kid who got his toys taken away isn't going to make the situation better. It just makes you annoying. Yes, people profiting from what isn't their work happens. It's called "exploitation". And there are generally laws in place to protect against that to some degree. And in this case, since we can't go there, the only protection afforded people is to stop and deprive everyone -- since it's kind of hard to selectively deprive folks.

I was simply stating that its unfair to stop uploading a series
because people are trying to profit from it, it will happen no matter how you try to
talk to these people, they wont listen as that's the nature of those kind of people.
I'm sad that you choose a negative attitude to this problem and feel that you have
to be verbally abusive about it

Since they won't listen, the threat needs to be realized. If subbers and uploaders (etc) threaten a response without ever actually using it when the line is crossed, it's pointless. And verbal abuse was directed at you mostly because rational communications don't seem to be seeping in. groink spent the last few posts explaining over and over the basic outline of why you are wrong. Since that doesn't seem to be working I felt it only prudent to attempt to try a more "forceful" interpretation. I find it most humorous that you are speaking about what you think is "fair" and "just". Who determines whether that is "fair"? You? I think not. The people doing the free work, of which you and countless others are basically parasitically latched on to (and only sending some outcry when you perceive folks have limited your ability to view some drama), are at any point in time better able to make a decision of fairness. Besides, even if it isn't "fair" to you, do you think it is "fair" to them that people are blatantly disregarding everything they have kindly asked of the community?

there is no need to tell people to shut up, its our
right to state how we feel about this, if you don't like it - don't read it. no need for
drama trolls here mate...

If anyone is a "drama troll" it's you. I'm merely indicating why your "argument" is loose at best. And irritating to the people who count here.

[groink]

Okay, samurie.... I'm going to let you solve this problem...

If I have a series like Oshin, and thousands of leechers want it, how would YOU convince me to upload the series?

As you stated, the fact is that people will stream it on the Internet, sell it on eBay, etc. It is inevitable. I can't do anything about it. But still, I'm against both practices. Are you going to tell me that you and your community will try its hardest to shut down all occurrences of what I mentioned? Are you going to tell me that what happens with the series is a fact of life, and I as the uploader will have to live with it? Would you prefer that I not upload it, and everyone will continue to live without it? Or, do you have a better solution to offer me that I haven't mentioned?

Remember, not one English-subbed episode has touched D-Addicts so far. I'm not stopping in the middle of an upload. I'm a new uploader who just so happens to own the Holy Grail of Japanese dramas. If I'm not convinced by your solution, the series will continue to be locked away. Convince me to make the series available to the Internet. That is the ultimate goal here - convincing the likes of myself with very wanted series like Oshin (Tenchijin is ppphhhtttt!), but also assure us uploaders that the terms we write out WILL be followed.

--- groink

[samurie]

your answer is simple, keep it under lock and key as you can not deal with the fact
that someone, somewhere will try to profit from your hard work, that the very nature
of a small minded number of fans out there. You will never like the fact that someone
will try to make a profit from you, no matter how hard you try the scumbags that ruin
our enjoyment from watching these kinda shows will take any opportunity they get..
and that the saddest part in the end we all loose from this...

I dont even know what oshin is or why it is a holy grail, I just simply try and watch
a subbed taiga drama, like in the past years I have been able to see so many drama's
from this site, and I dont understand why it has become such a issue as in the past
years uploaders have not seemed to have worried...

anyway it seems im really wasting my time by trying to put my point across, so I shall
bid you all far thee well...

[Daish]

isn't the this ripped from tv wtih the subtitle? ie, it wasn't manaully subbed....

[Issy]

sorry to interfere and i know is offtopic but
OSHIN IS THE HOLYGRAIL OF ALL JAPANESE DRAMAS!
well, atleast for us non japanese viewers. brings back so many old memories when i was young. so far i have seen Persian, Arabic and English dubbed version but never the original japanese version.

Remember, not one English-subbed episode has touched D-Addicts so far. I'm not stopping in the middle of an upload. I'm a new uploader who just so happens to own the Holy Grail of Japanese dramas. If I'm not convinced by your solution, the series will continue to be locked away. Convince me to make the series available to the Internet. That is the ultimate goal here - convincing the likes of myself with very wanted series like Oshin (Tenchijin is ppphhhtttt!), but also assure us uploaders that the terms we write out WILL be followed.

You DO have a gem groink. i am so sad that can't convince you in that because what ever you said, makes a complete sense. i just hope that it we can find a solution so this gem and others like this one be able to come out and be enjoyed by their fans.
sorry again for interference.

[misake]

Groink, I remember you from the other Taiga Dramas forums here. You seem like a really nice person and I do understand how you feel. But the fact is people are getting lazier and don't care about others. I think it has become a problem. So you'll always find people trying to take the easy way out of doing things.

When I saw that this Drama had started, I thought it sounded interesting to only find that it wasn't being uploaded anymore. T-T

But what we, the downloaders can do (also the uploads) if we find a site that the drama is being streamed or sold that is obviously from here and the uploader is against it, we just have to report that the person who uploaded the video isn't the owner or selling the videos & the videos are not genuine, then they'll be taken off. This is all I have to offer as a solution to the problem. So far the person who uploaded the video for streaming most the links are dead and I reported the ones that were still working.

Thank you so much for sharing this great drama and hopefully it will continue to be uploaded here.

[misake]

I also took care of the rapidshare and megauploads files. Hopefully they (the site) listens.

[krydda01]

Oshin? Forget Tenchijin - give us Oshin!

Sorry, I know this is off topic, but then much of this thread is.

[animaximus]

Ok I have been reading about the arguments about sharing the series or not and with multiple examples to cite both parties point of view. I think I can safely use this as an example to simplify this situation that we are in.

If groink is the ONLY person with all the taigas which we would like to watch, it would be totally up to him to decide to share if he wants. If he refuses to upload and share, there's nothing much else we can do. The thing is, once he starts to share, there will be people out there who starts to spread the files around. This will lead to a multiplier effect that alot of whole other people will get the file, and in turn, will start to upload them into other sites without showing the decent respect to the ORIGINAL uploader. The whole point is that we have to convince the ORIGINAL uploader (groink) to share the files with us, to his TERMS AND CONDITIONS, since he is the ONLY person with the dramas.

I totally respect what groink has done, and I totally agree that, if others refuses to follow the original T&C, this series should be cut off to prevent others from profiting. veritati and samurie, I think do not get the whole idea into their head. To them, it's about the spirit of sharing. I agree with this point, however the spirit of sharing doesn't mean that it comes with no T&C, in which for this case, I do not find it very unreasonable.

So please, Samurie, try to see it from the community's point of view. Remember, if 1 person is the ONLY source, and it's entirely up to him to share or not, we just have to abide with the conditions he/she has set. In this case, it's to NOT let streaming sites profit from the hardwork of the ORIGINAL uploader.

With this, I take it as the subbed version will not be uploaded anymore. Ok for me, I will just download the RAW versions.

p/s: Oshin is the HOLY GRAIL of all taigas. Just so to let those who have no idea what is the big deal about taigas.

[samurie]

good post mate and i totally agree with you.!!
I'm sorry to say i know nothing about oshin other then what my japanese wife
tells me that it is a very sad story, about a poor girl..
I do believe in the spirit of sharing and do not know a way to stop these scum bags
that profit, i just know im sadly missing my taiga drama for this year because of
these people...

[Feeder_Fan]

I read this long thread and in my opinion some people here are totally wrong about the essence of fansub. I just have something to say in response: If you want to share then share and don't care about the consequences ; if people are dumb enough to be fooled and buy the subs on eBay or whatever that's not your problem at all. I mean this is the case for all dramas not only this one.

IMO the real question is why do you spread your subs ? For personal gratitude, for the supremacy of d-addicts or for the pleasure to provide happiness and culture ?

[XrayMind]

I won't go into the whole streaming site discussion, there is already 26 pages of that here. But English broadcast of Tenchijin is widely available to US audience. Other than the 3 over air broadcasts in Hawaii, Los Angeles, and San Fransico, TV Japan has it in their programming. TV Japan is availiable in many cable/IPTV systems across the US and available on Dish Network.

http://www.tvjapan.net/en/watching/

[Jhobbit]

I'm just grateful for the English subbed jdramas that I can get and am interested in. But I totally respect the right of the person who has put so much hardwork and time into doing something like this. He has his reasons and we should respect it. I've only recently discovered that dramas from other countries were being subbed and I'm so enjoying these dramas but I have to admit without the subtitles I can't follow the series.

[XrayMind]

Just want everyone know that episode 22 of Tenchijin is going to be little be late. When I went to edit the file that I had the recorded, I found out both my capture files for the initial and repeat broadcast were corrupted. Someone is sending me their recording of episode 22. So please be patient, I will put it when I receive it and convert it mkv format.

[chokubi]

Thanks for informing!

[phalaenopsys]

ok i like taiga dramas and i like the history background in tenchijin, the actors portraying Nobunaga, Kenshin and Hideyoshi are really cool and Kanegatsu too, i don't like the main actor tho and don't really understand why the hell is he always crying come on there is less tears in atsuhime than in tenchijin and his comrades cry a lot too, lol i could understand that wars are really bad and tough matters but you can't keep crying every time like a baby.