[Discussion] Last Friends - Nagasawa Masami/Ueno Juri/Eita

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
Darianasi
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Post by Darianasi » Jun 13th, '08, 14:24

EPISODE 10 IS NOT THE LAST EPISODE! -.-

crisdrag
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Post by crisdrag » Jun 13th, '08, 15:19

Darianasi wrote:EPISODE 10 IS NOT THE LAST EPISODE! -.-
You are right! There are 2 more episodes.

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sleepyzzz
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Post by sleepyzzz » Jun 13th, '08, 15:49

RATINGS OVER 20%!!!! WOOOHOOO!!

Sorry if someone has posted this but I need to do a "quick reply" otherwise I'm going to read thru every single spoiler!!

"Last Friends" breaks 20%
Fri, June 13, 2008 (11:02am EDT)
Thursday's episode of the Fuji TV drama series "Last Friends" registered a 20.7% audience rating, placing it not far behind this season's leader, "Gokusen 3." Boasting a cast of popular young stars, "Last Friends" has steadily been gaining steam since the 13.9% ratings of its premiere episode in April.

Despite its heavy themes such as domestic violence and sexual identity issues, the show has proven to be very successful, and is one of the few series this season to show a trend of improvement in the ratings. It is now less than a point behind "Gokusen," which has fallen about five percentage points since its strong 26.4% start. "Last Friends" also surpassed this week's episode of "CHANGE," which has scored less than 20% for two consecutive weeks despite starring the super-popular Takuya Kimura.
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76xhxh
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Post by 76xhxh » Jun 13th, '08, 16:03

Hi! Anyone know where to get ep 10 sub? I cant wait to see the show with subs!
Thanks a lot!

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Post by GomiMomi » Jun 13th, '08, 16:07

:-)
Last edited by GomiMomi on Mar 11th, '10, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Rori
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Post by Rori » Jun 13th, '08, 17:09

76xhxh wrote:Hi! Anyone know where to get ep 10 sub? I cant wait to see the show with subs!
Thanks a lot!
There's no sub yet. Keep an eye on this thread for em' though.

If you can just do with an English translation, then, like I've mentioned, a link was posted to one a while back:

http://jdrama.cc/node/112
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sleepyzzz
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Post by sleepyzzz » Jun 13th, '08, 17:15

Just watched Episode 10 - some thoughts and that was another emotional ride!!
This was an intense episode and really emphasised on Ruka's "Liberation" theme. The scene in the bar with her dad and the follow-up scene between the dad and Takeru were one of the most touching moments.

One of my favourite scenes was when Michiru visited Sousuke! Thanks to Sousuke (can't believe I'm saying this), Michiru realised how important Ruka was to her and how much Ruka has DONE for her!!! I really loved the transition from seeing the charm to saying damn decisively that she's going back to RUKA!

Finally, like most people here - I really wanted Sousuke to die and I think the writer ended it on an emotional note. From the moment that he asks why Michiru is crying to the photos scene - he finally realises that it's exactly like what Ruka said - "the one that truly loves MIchiru is me" - he could see the true happiness that Michiru had at the sharehouse - something he could never give her. His suicide I thought was a decent ending though him lying there was a bit odd. Maybe sitting on the couch with the dress on this lap might have been a bit better?
Overall it was still an AMAZING episode!! :thumleft: Get the tissues ready though!!!
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Yumi Yan
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Post by Yumi Yan » Jun 13th, '08, 17:19

Darianasi wrote:Michiru gave him many chances if you ask me... -.- anyway please tell me if ruka told her she loves her? i so admire ruka when she told sousuke she is the one who trully loves michiru!
I'm talkin not about that kind of chance... I mean he understood that he was wrong about all that.. those tears while he was looking at photos, a FIRST time he didn't hit Michiru and those words "I'll set you free" was like a glimpse of a light! He had his good side and if he would have wanted he might change.. I believe that help of other people would make him better..I really didn't want him to die like that...

And Michiru already knows about Ruka's feelings...
I actually got the same idea... why none of them called the police... :unsure:

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Post by rokugatsu29 » Jun 13th, '08, 17:49

are there really 12 episodes for Last Friends? is it final? coz it is.. i'll watch episode 10 now. i was supposed to be waiting for 11 (if it's the last) before i watch 10. thanks... =)

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sarah117
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Post by sarah117 » Jun 13th, '08, 18:07

rokugatsu29 wrote:are there really 12 episodes for Last Friends? is it final? coz it is.. i'll watch episode 10 now. i was supposed to be waiting for 11 (if it's the last) before i watch 10. thanks... =)
actually there are only 11 episodes. but after that there will be one SPECIAL episode. so, that makes 12. but we don't really know either the Special one is just a playback or the continuation of the actual story..
*correct me if i'm wrong..*
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Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 13th, '08, 18:11

You know, Sousuke said that he has set Michiru free....

... But how? She has his child. Everyday of her life she will see his face in that child of her's. How is that setting her free, and if he does, it would almost seem like his ghost is with her. No matter what, she has not escaped from Sousuke nor has he set her free. That child is her burden, like I said from the very beginning -- That child is her burden and cross to bare for the rest of her life.

As to what anon said -- It was Michiru's DV issue that caused all the events to happen. People tend to forget that Last Friends is about Michiru and the people around her. It's about how she, coming into their lives, affected all of them... and destroying their lives because of her weak inability to run from the man who was tormenting her.

Yes, they all had issues but the main issue was DV. It was clearly stated in the beginning that Last Friends main issue was DV. There was not much to talk about with Eli because she was an open book ; Eli wanted companionship -- romantic or not. You noticed how she clung to anyone who would even give her the briefest amount of attention, no matter good looking or not. Ogurin, Takeru, and even Sousuke (she went there to pick up the letters but she never delivered them, she only read them for her own satisfaction).

Yes, the DV issue was the driving point of this show because the main character suffered from DV.

Oh yeah, Ryo Nishikido has won me over in this episode.

Image

That bed scene, where he's just holding back his tears, his urge, his frustrations. The way he cried, the way... Oh god, that entire scene. You know, I may not like him for him but ... my lord... He's one talented actor.
But did anyone notice the differences in the homes? Sousuke had such a cold, up tight, devoid of life apartment. Everything was flat, no color, cold....

Image

... Yet the share house was full of color, comfort, happiness. It was slightly messy, but had a bit of everything from everyone. There was a sense of security.

Image

Did anyone notice that? Whoever was in charge of continuity and set design, my hat goes off to you.
Last edited by Ladymercury on Jun 13th, '08, 18:25, edited 4 times in total.

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zaq
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Post by zaq » Jun 13th, '08, 18:17

sleepyzzz wrote:RATINGS OVER 20%!!!! WOOOHOOO!!

Sorry if someone has posted this but I need to do a "quick reply" otherwise I'm going to read thru every single spoiler!!

"Last Friends" breaks 20%
Fri, June 13, 2008 (11:02am EDT)
Thursday's episode of the Fuji TV drama series "Last Friends" registered a 20.7% audience rating, placing it not far behind this season's leader, "Gokusen 3." Boasting a cast of popular young stars, "Last Friends" has steadily been gaining steam since the 13.9% ratings of its premiere episode in April.

Despite its heavy themes such as domestic violence and sexual identity issues, the show has proven to be very successful, and is one of the few series this season to show a trend of improvement in the ratings. It is now less than a point behind "Gokusen," which has fallen about five percentage points since its strong 26.4% start. "Last Friends" also surpassed this week's episode of "CHANGE," which has scored less than 20% for two consecutive weeks despite starring the super-popular Takuya Kimura.
I'm really happy that the rating is this good.. it was a good move on the side of the production to leave the cliffhanger of ep 9 like that and not show the previews for ep 10...

and I also blame Nishikido Ryo for his mobile blog entry for that day... :sweat:


just a quick observation with regards on the ratings... it seems that the ratings goes up when ever the cliffhanger involves Sousuke doing something psychotic and when the preview shows that he is beating up somebody... but when the episode is mostly all talk and drama with the rest of the characters the ratings goes down.... hummm... :unsure:

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siutou_amy
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Post by siutou_amy » Jun 13th, '08, 18:25

docipain wrote:
if sousuke is alive or not..it didn't change anything when it comes to ruka and michiru because there is more than just letting someone die to make others happy. it was a unnessarry death if you only want michiru and ruka be happy together. people don't have to die so that others can be happy.
He might be a psycho but if we look at the reasons how he became like that it's only logical. I am sure everyone can become like that if you never had people who loves you around yourself and you are simply a lonely being who does not trust anyone. But when there is one you know that he/she loves you it's something so special you don't want to lose it again.
Actually Sousuke was normal guy..he just didn't want to share is one and only love with anyone

I loved his last sentenxe..."I will set you free." :/
.
I agree and disagree with that. Yes, Sousuke probably had people around who kept on coming and leaving, and he seemed to have the same luck as a young man.
It's not super sad he kills himself because we all sort of suspected it was gonna be him, but it's also bad to cheer for his death. After all, his scene with the photos was quite emotional... so it leaves you with a sad relief.

And I agree that he didn't have to die so Michiru and Ruka could be together... that'd be stupid writing. I still think he shouldn't die and go to PRISON!!! ARGH!! :cussing:

Anyway, on the explanation that Sousuke is the way he is because of things that happened... could be, partly on that. There are fictional characters who have had a similar situation of people leaving, and have grown to be messed up more towards themselves.

Anyway, I think this drama is so good because it excites you, and frustrates you, makes you love characters and hate them. LOL' I think many or most of us have felt frustrated with Michiru, but it only shows that we care for her. LOL, because, isn't Ruka frustrated with her at times as well?

We didn't like Sousuke because Ruka didn't like him, and we saw what he was doing. We felt horrific when he was about to Ruka, and when he did it to Michiru. But we sort of felt something when he understood...
LOL, okay.... long rant. :roll

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Post by rokugatsu29 » Jun 13th, '08, 18:38

sarah117 wrote:
rokugatsu29 wrote:are there really 12 episodes for Last Friends? is it final? coz it is.. i'll watch episode 10 now. i was supposed to be waiting for 11 (if it's the last) before i watch 10. thanks... =)
actually there are only 11 episodes. but after that there will be one SPECIAL episode. so, that makes 12. but we don't really know either the Special one is just a playback or the continuation of the actual story..
*correct me if i'm wrong..*
oh okay... =) then i won't watch 10 for now. even though the suspense is killing me =D thanks! must.... have... self.. control!!!

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sarah117
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Post by sarah117 » Jun 13th, '08, 19:01

Ladymercury wrote:But did anyone notice the differences in the homes? Sousuke had such a cold, up tight, devoid of life apartment. Everything was flat, no color, cold....

... Yet the share house was full of color, comfort, happiness. It was slightly messy, but had a bit of everything from everyone. There was a sense of security.

Did anyone notice that? Whoever was in charge of continuity and set design, my hat goes off to you.
yes, nice spot. i noticed that too. this also contributes to the growth of our feelings towards this great drama.. :-) :-)
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Post by namie » Jun 13th, '08, 19:32

Hi!!! Someone knows where is the last friends OST? I'm searching for it! :wub: I want the instrumental piano version of Prisoner of love :wub: :wub: Please,help me!! :cry:

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Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 13th, '08, 20:00

You know, people, there's a " search this topic " feature on this boards when you can't find something.

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Post by namie » Jun 13th, '08, 20:10

Ladymercury wrote:You know, people, there's a " search this topic " feature on this boards when you can't find something.
Sorry but I can't find it yet. XD

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 13th, '08, 20:18


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Post by anons » Jun 14th, '08, 02:54

@ avieamber: Hi, thanks for going through my loonnng post and putting the points down. From what I read on wiki (it's not the Holy Grail), but I reckon in Ruka's case her condition may be salvaged and she may or may not be properly diagnosed with GID:

1. There must be evidence of a strong and persistent cross-gender identification.
2. This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex.
3. There must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one's assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
4. The individual must not have a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia).
5. There must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

At the moment I don't quite think number 5 on this list is satisfied. I know this is just one of the few standards of diagnosing GID, but I'll just go by this one for a guide anyway. Until recently I didn't think she sought to identify herself as a man. But given the fact that she lives in Japan and would face social ostracism if she identify herself as a man, I suppose she could only persist on not being seen as a person but not identifying with any gender (which is more culturally acceptable). I'm not a psychologist so I can't properly diagnose her, but if the show makes it more CLEAR, then I can properly accept she has GID and whether or not she wants to go through with surgical procedures.

@ LukiaWhitney:
Ruka - To be honest, I think Ruka is just as weak as Michiru in facing her own emotions. Also, I don't understand why she likes Michiru. Oh, well. However, I think the drama has been doing good job in the last few episodes of showing Ruka's development in being able to open up to others, such as Takeru. For the transgender thing, I think it was more of an issue in earlier episodes, but I think of Ruka as female and I can't think of any instances of why she would want to be a male (although she doesn't show any "female" traits, she doesn't really show any "male" traits, either.)
I apologise that my rant seem rather disorganised and aimless to you. I was actually more or less complaining about the way the show has been executed and what the writers write out rather than complaining about the characters themselves (except for Michiru). I don't agree with you that Ruka is as weak as Michiru in "facing her own emotions". She has already faced emotions - the problem is she is afraid of being accepted and not really in denial of her own feelings. She knows them quite well - she may be weak in that aspect (ie. wanting acceptance yet not daring to make a move), but that is nothing like Michiru who was in constant denial of the Sousuke problem until the last few episodes. And her fake laugh totally annoys me (so that makes things worse
:scratch: )

@ Darianasi: Yes I know Ruka is in a hard position as a female liking another female, but I was actually ranting the fact that her GID issue should not be mixed up with her sexual orientation. The writers are treating both as concurrent and the same issues, which should not really be the case. They sometimes pay more attention to GID (the earlier episodes) and the later ones paying attention to her sexual orientation. They should be given equal attention throughout the show, I reckon. The reason I go on about this part is because I'm not convinced that a person who is baring their soul to his/her father about his one problem tells him "I can never like a man" if the central problem relates to gender identity. This would be more of a resolution to sexual orientation problems.

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Post by sleepyzzz » Jun 14th, '08, 04:21

Hi all!!

My OST just arrived! I'm still going thru all the tracks but I am definitely glad I bought it!!

I'm a strong believer that if you like the drama that much, then we should be supportive and buy the OST. One of the main reasons why I like j-dramas so much is the effort they put into the music. I've uploaded the instrumental version of Prisoner of Love onto imeem but I strongly urge people to buy the OST! If everyone just downloads, then they will lose all incentive to produce great soundtracks and original music. Sorry for the rant but definitely check the track out! That itself is a good enough reason to buy the CD! (I know it is a tad expensive...) :thumleft:

http://www.imeem.com/people/kZ56mwF/mus ... l_version/
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Rori
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Post by Rori » Jun 14th, '08, 04:26

Thanks for posting a link to the instrumental version of PoL, sleepyzzz! It's definitely a great track.

Thanks for sharing it with us~
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Post by sleepyzzz » Jun 14th, '08, 04:57

Hey all - I've created a playlist just for Last Friends - I've only uploaded a few tracks - I think they are the key ones that remind us of Takeru/Ruka/Michiru. As I go thru the OST, I might add some more!! Enjoy~

http://www.imeem.com/people/kZ56mwF/pla ... _playlist/
Yasashii sekai...ramblings on my favourite J-dramas/yuri anime & manga
Currently crazy about: K-ON!!, Hard to Say I Love You, Girl Friends and Angel Beats :wub:

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Post by Meecha » Jun 14th, '08, 06:09

^ thank you!!
ep 10
wow,what an episode
Sousuke commited suicide!?
i dun like him but seeing him crying while looking at the photos made me feel so sorry for him
but the scene him lying on the sofa was weird, it made me baffled for a moment XD

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Post by m-ayu » Jun 14th, '08, 06:26

For those like me, who want something to distracted from clicking the spoilers until the sub of ep 10 is out. lol

here is the English subtitles for Mentore G - Last Friends Casts. :)
http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtop ... 55#1049055

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siutou_amy
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Post by siutou_amy » Jun 14th, '08, 06:36

sleepyzzz wrote:Hi all!!

My OST just arrived! I'm still going thru all the tracks but I am definitely glad I bought it!!

I'm a strong believer that if you like the drama that much, then we should be supportive and buy the OST. One of the main reasons why I like j-dramas so much is the effort they put into the music. I've uploaded the instrumental version of Prisoner of Love onto imeem but I strongly urge people to buy the OST! If everyone just downloads, then they will lose all incentive to produce great soundtracks and original music. Sorry for the rant but definitely check the track out! That itself is a good enough reason to buy the CD! (I know it is a tad expensive...) :thumleft:

http://www.imeem.com/people/kZ56mwF/mus ... l_version/
Thank you for that! Yeah, I agree. If ya like it, support it!
Will buy it when I get enough items to qualify for free shipping though xD

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Post by avieamber » Jun 14th, '08, 06:41

m-ayu wrote:For those like me, who want something to distracted from clicking the spoilers until the sub of ep 10 is out. lol

here is the English subtitles for Mentore G - Last Friends Casts. :)
http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtop ... 55#1049055
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!! THANKYOU!!!!! :wub:

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Post by wintergal » Jun 14th, '08, 06:56

sleepyzzz wrote:Hey all - I've created a playlist just for Last Friends - I've only uploaded a few tracks - I think they are the key ones that remind us of Takeru/Ruka/Michiru. As I go thru the OST, I might add some more!! Enjoy~

http://www.imeem.com/people/kZ56mwF/pla ... _playlist/
Thanks so much for sharing! :D This is one of the OSTs I'd definitely buy~

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Post by SithSylar » Jun 14th, '08, 07:03

m-ayu wrote:For those like me, who want something to distracted from clicking the spoilers until the sub of ep 10 is out. lol

here is the English subtitles for Mentore G - Last Friends Casts. :)
http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtop ... 55#1049055
Thank you so very very very much :cheers:

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Post by rulan » Jun 14th, '08, 07:46

m-ayu wrote:For those like me, who want something to distracted from clicking the spoilers until the sub of ep 10 is out. lol

here is the English subtitles for Mentore G - Last Friends Casts. :)
http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtop ... 55#1049055
omg that was awesome. sooo funnie. thanks for posting it and a really BIG thanks to the subbers. Honto Arigatou.
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Post by ^Yuuki » Jun 14th, '08, 08:44

I just finished episode 10~ Kinda late because I accidentally re-downloaded ep9 instead. ORZ. The ending was a little '"Eh..." but on a whole I thought the episode was pretty awesome. I'll post my comments later. But heh, looks like the wedding thing is true? I posted the spoilers for episode 11 and some filming sightings in a previous post. I thought it was just a joke... :crazy:

Here's a 'spoiler' pic for the wedding I found...
Image

...Sorry, as much as I want Ruka to be happy, that's stretching it. LOL.

*note: for those who can't see clearly, it's obviously fanmade. not by me though.
*runs away while laughing madly* :mrgreen:


@anons: About the GID thing, the impression I got from the interview with Asano Taeko(the show's writer) was they needed a term that can appeal to the average viewers as an issue while at the same time able to explore more on the character. So the producers decided on GID because it had a good track record. Lol. And I don't think they 'paid more attention to her sexual orientation' per see in the last few episodes. More like her feelings towards Michiru. She didn't use it as an excuse for her GID issue during the counseling scenes, citing most of the reasons you quoted from wiki. The reason she said "I can never like a man" among things like "Not able to get married and have children" when talking with her father is because she knows her dad hopes that she can find a good guy and settle down. She knows she can't be happy in the way her dad wants her to be. We must remember that to her dad, GID and being gay or what not...he probably doesn't know much about the differences. So Ruka was talking to him in a way that he can understand it. It's only their first conversation on this so getting too technical and start talking about surgery and stuff would be too much. Still, like the writer says, for her, Ruka is in the 'grey zone' between 2 extremes of being gay and FtM(female to male, a transgender term). In the end is it like what Sosuke said in ep10? That she wants to be a guy in order to protect Michiru? Well, I think that could be just one of the reasons since if she could, she would want to be neither...But we'll see in episode 11.

I summarized and translated part of the interview here:
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... tm#1047644
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... tm#1047707
I find the character conception part pretty interesting and I think this is the only interview they addressed about the GID/Lesbian thing.
Last edited by ^Yuuki on Jun 14th, '08, 18:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by namie » Jun 14th, '08, 09:01

sleepyzzz wrote:Hey all - I've created a playlist just for Last Friends - I've only uploaded a few tracks - I think they are the key ones that remind us of Takeru/Ruka/Michiru. As I go thru the OST, I might add some more!! Enjoy~

http://www.imeem.com/people/kZ56mwF/pla ... _playlist/
Thank you sooo much!!!! I

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Post by avieamber » Jun 14th, '08, 09:08

^^yuuki , the pic of the wedding....is kinda disturbing for me. :crazy: I'm lost for words now.

argh i want the last episode now!

:glare:

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Post by sarah117 » Jun 14th, '08, 09:44

^Yuuki wrote:Here's a 'spoiler' pic for the wedding I found...
Image

...Sorry, as much as I want Ruka to be happy, that's stretching it. LOL.
*note: for those who can't see clearly, it's obviously fanmade. not by me though.
*runs away while laughing madly* :mrgreen:
hehehe, i kind of hoping that it's gonna happen. :lol
Masami's hair, is it from the Proposal Daisakusen?
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Post by chrry370 » Jun 14th, '08, 10:01

just finished episode 11~ Kinda late because I accidentally re-downloaded ep9 instead
^Yuuki are you saying you watched ep 11? or is that just a typo???

Isn't next week episode 11?

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Post by anons » Jun 14th, '08, 12:50

@Yuuki: Ahh, when you put it that way about why Ruka didn't tell her father properly, I think that is a good explanation. Still, from the interview you have provided (Thankyou very very much for that btw :) - it confirms that my confusions are not unfounded and not without reason) - the writer herself admits there was no real technical distinction (or a more realistic portrayal) of people with GID. Once again, it's all a matter of popularity and whatever works with the audience. tsk tsk (but I understand...) In any case, producers still get big thumbs up for doing a mainstream drama with as many issues as this one.
nterviewer: Even from the start, Ruka doesn't refer to herself as 'ore' or 'boku', so we thought she's just a boyish lesbian. Why does she use 'atashi' and 'watashi' instead?

Asano: That's right. If she uses 'ore' it'll be problematic wouldn't it? The average television viewer would probably wonder if Ruka is uncomfortable being herself and we wanted to avoid that probably. There's no real thought about that. Right now, Ruka is extremely popular. Viewers that don't have the same issue as her can also understand her feelings and feel her emotions. That, I believe has nothing to do with her simply calling herself 'watashi'. (Yes, it has everything to do with Ueno Juri~)
That I have always thought about and now I get an answer :) ("uncomfortable being herself" - yes, a person with GID probably would ..... )

Yes, Ueno Juri is a fantastic actress who did a great job with this role. Props to her~

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Post by fayenatic » Jun 14th, '08, 13:50

sleepyzzz wrote:RATINGS OVER 20%!!!! WOOOHOOO!!

Sorry if someone has posted this but I need to do a "quick reply" otherwise I'm going to read thru every single spoiler!!

"Last Friends" breaks 20%
Fri, June 13, 2008 (11:02am EDT)
Thursday's episode of the Fuji TV drama series "Last Friends" registered a 20.7% audience rating, placing it not far behind this season's leader, "Gokusen 3." Boasting a cast of popular young stars, "Last Friends" has steadily been gaining steam since the 13.9% ratings of its premiere episode in April.

Despite its heavy themes such as domestic violence and sexual identity issues, the show has proven to be very successful, and is one of the few series this season to show a trend of improvement in the ratings. It is now less than a point behind "Gokusen," which has fallen about five percentage points since its strong 26.4% start. "Last Friends" also surpassed this week's episode of "CHANGE," which has scored less than 20% for two consecutive weeks despite starring the super-popular Takuya Kimura.
Good job to the writer, director, and the actors/actresses!! My hat goes off to all of them! Considering the controversial issues in this dorama, ratings are still on the rise! That's a good sign! :salut:
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Post by vege-okonomiyaki » Jun 14th, '08, 14:57

[quote="sleepyzzz"]Just watched Episode 10 - some thoughts and that was another emotional ride!!
This was an intense episode and really emphasised on Ruka's "Liberation" theme. The scene in the bar with her dad and the follow-up scene between the dad and Takeru were one of the most touching moments.

One of my favourite scenes was when Michiru visited Sousuke! Thanks to Sousuke (can't believe I'm saying this), Michiru realised how important Ruka was to her and how much Ruka has DONE for her!!! I really loved the transition from seeing the charm to saying damn decisively that she's going back to RUKA!

Finally, like most people here - I really wanted Sousuke to die and I think the writer ended it on an emotional note. From the moment that he asks why Michiru is crying to the photos scene - he finally realises that it's exactly like what Ruka said - "the one that truly loves MIchiru is me" - he could see the true happiness that Michiru had at the sharehouse - something he could never give her. His suicide I thought was a decent ending though him lying there was a bit odd. Maybe sitting on the couch with the dress on this lap might have been a bit better?

Soooo cool about the 20+ ratings!!! :-) Juri-chan and Eita should take most of the credit for this :cheers:


I agree with most of what you said, but
He did have the dress just lying on his chest, he wasn't wearing it (if that's what you mean?) - the screencap a few pages back shows that. And that he'd slit his wrists - about the most honourable thing he's ever done - but I do agree with ?bmwracer that that made him a bit of a martyr :-( But I'm really glad that it was him who died, and not someone else.
About the ep 11 preview and the series as a whole - I think
that it is Ruka and Michuru getting married. For real - not a dream. The things we saw in ep 1 didn't have to be the end of the story. All we learned in that was that Ruka is somewhere else, under same sky. Could be the US for a race or for surgery. For them to get married, Ruka's gender has to change on her birth certificate. I'm not sure whether she would have to have surgery or not to qualify for such a change. Or she might just have to prove she has GID and be taking hormones.

The bride in the shot isn't visibly pregnant, so it's either before or after Michuru has the baby - presumably Souske's. So somewhere in ep 11 I think R & M make up, and decide to get hitched. (Ogurin and Eri can't get married because he's married already, and besides, Eri is over him. And it doesn't even look like him from the back.)

I thought that a couple of episodes back that Michuru was starting to have feelings for Ruka, but she was confused because Ruka is female (and M isn't a lesbian). Like when she saw T & R talking outside - a feeling of jealousy. And then she denied to Ruka that she had feelings for Takeru, later in the bedroom. But (amazingly) Michuru still doesn't know that Ruka thinks of herself as a man, so discovering that might make her think twice about her growing feelings toward Ruka. All those flashbacks she had at Souske's house just confirmed my thoughts on this - she's finally realising how much she is loved. Who wouldn't fall in love with Ruka? (But I never quite understood what Ruka saw in Michuru either.)

About Takeru and Eri's storylines - it really is a shame they weren't explored more - I totally agree that the DV thing took up far too much screentime with Michuru's indecision. I hope they at least give Takeru some closure. (He'd make a great uncle!) But Eri I fear is doomed to lonliness - unless she meets someone at the wedding, or gets together with Takeru. We know they've been friends for a while, and that she likes him... if she could just take it slowly they might have a chance? :D
Last edited by vege-okonomiyaki on Jun 14th, '08, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 14th, '08, 15:05

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol

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Post by avieamber » Jun 14th, '08, 15:11

about the trailer and vege-okonomiyaki
i would really love to see Ruka and Michiru make up but somehow i just don't see them getting hitched together. :scratch: It's abit too far-fetched to me. And i sure don't really want it to end that way, not that i have anything against sex change or anything, i just can't imagine lovely Ruka having a sex change and turned into a MAN. and we know Michiru is straight. HOWEVER, let's say that your opinions about Michiru being confused over her feelings towards Ruka, that she might actually be jealous seeing Takeru and Ruka being so close together and sub-consciously developing love towards Ruka, well...i can say that, NINE MONTHS might be enough to build up her courage to turn from straight to that. But we'll see in episode 10. less than a week now.

Still i don't want Ruka to have a sex change even though that's what she wanted and only then, she'll finally get her liberation. Argh...this series makes my head ache so much, thinking about all these possibilities. Seriously, i've never cracked my head so much for a drama before! it's such a torture! :glare:

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 14th, '08, 15:23

Besides, having a sex change doesn't mean you miraculously become a man. You still have a feminine body, regardless.

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Post by ilovereg » Jun 14th, '08, 15:55

Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
thank you so much ladymercury for blurting this out. i absolutely agree with everything that you said. no need to write any of my own thoughts, you said it in the most perfect way possible.

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Post by rulan » Jun 14th, '08, 18:59

Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
geez talk about emotional outburst. maybe they went overseas to get married. whatever it is please refrain from yelling at us since we're all here to just discuss and enjoy the serie and not to take in your tantrums.
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Post by rulan » Jun 14th, '08, 19:02

Ladymercury wrote:
Besides, having a sex change doesn't mean you miraculously become a man. You still have a feminine body, regardless.
you obviously never did any research or study this subject. so i'm not even going to bother explaining to you.

^yuuki: that's a funny wedding picture. sadly the person's photoshop skills need to improve with the most noticeable being ruka's arm next to michiru's. also the lighting on both their faces is different. though it would be nice if it was true.
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Post by ruka_michiru » Jun 14th, '08, 19:39

All I can say is, thanks Yuuki for providing us some "Ruka/Michiru goodness" I like the picture, :thumright: except for Ruka's dreadful pants :crazy:

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Post by ritas » Jun 14th, '08, 20:28

Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
While your outburst is certainly valid from an emotional stand point, it is not accurate. If you get a sex change operation from female to male, you are now legally a male and can legally marry a female. It happens here in the USA and gay marriage is not legal in the US, with 2 state exceptions.

Here's something I found about Japanese law, fyi

In 2003, following growing social awareness of GID,[28] a draft of the Exceptional Treatment Act for People with GID (hereafter GID Act) was brought up for discussion. The Act provided five legal conditions that needed to be satisfied to change an individual's legal sex: an applicant should be (1) over 20 years old, (2) not be married at the time, (3) have no children, (4) be deprived of their gonad or gonad function, and (5) have external genital organs similar to other members of the sex to which they were being reassigned. When the applicant has fulfilled these conditions and has been adjudged to have altered their legal sex by a Family Court, the applicant can then be treated as a member of his/her new legal sex with respect to the application of the Civil Code and other laws and ordinances. For instance, FtM (female-to-male) transsexuals who change their legal sex can get married to female partners. One year after the Act came into force in July 2004, the Division of Family Affairs in the Japanese Supreme Court announced that 208 of 218 petitions to change sex were accepted during this period

Here's the google cache of the article.

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Post by vege-okonomiyaki » Jun 14th, '08, 20:47

avieamber wrote:about the trailer and vege-okonomiyaki
i would really love to see Ruka and Michiru make up but somehow i just don't see them getting hitched together. :scratch: It's abit too far-fetched to me. And i sure don't really want it to end that way, not that i have anything against sex change or anything, i just can't imagine lovely Ruka having a sex change and turned into a MAN. and we know Michiru is straight. HOWEVER, let's say that your opinions about Michiru being confused over her feelings towards Ruka, that she might actually be jealous seeing Takeru and Ruka being so close together and sub-consciously developing love towards Ruka, well...i can say that, NINE MONTHS might be enough to build up her courage to turn from straight to that. But we'll see in episode 10. less than a week now.

Still i don't want Ruka to have a sex change even though that's what she wanted and only then, she'll finally get her liberation. Argh...this series makes my head ache so much, thinking about all these possibilities. Seriously, i've never cracked my head so much for a drama before! it's such a torture! :glare:
Oh, but my opinion isn't so different -
I have wished from the beginning that Ruka was a lesbian, not transgender, probably because I have personal stake in wanting to see more lesbian characters on TV, especially in Japan where there aren't many representations at all. But I have accepted since reading those translations of the writer's comments that Ruka is transgender. So my predictions are based on that fact, not on my preference for the character.

I've also been wishing that she didn't have surgery. She's wonderful the way she is, so I can't see why she would do something so radical. Ruka doesn't see it that way. And her motives scare me - she seems to be doing it largely for Michuru (who may reject her afterwards). Her feelings of self-disgust were only lightly touched on. It's been quite frustrating for me hearing Ruka say that she's just going to pop over to the States to have surgery, even when I know that people in this situation have to go through years of counselling and then live as males for at least a year, before even being considered for surgery. The time frame they've given us just isn't realistic. But I'm putting that aside too, because it wouldn't fit the story time frame.

GID is an interesting issue, but I'm glad they didn't make this a documentary-drama because it would have killed this drama. As it is, Ruka is someone we care about and empathise with and I'm hooked to the drama, so they must have done something right. I'm just trying to go with the flow. But I want a happy ending for Ruka. :-)
>>EDIT>> Thanks for the info ritas
very interesting. So I guess to marry Michuru, Ruka would have to have the surgery... can't imagine... :pale:

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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 14th, '08, 21:16

ritas wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
While your outburst is certainly valid from an emotional stand point, it is not accurate. If you get a sex change operation from female to male, you are now legally a male and can legally marry a female. It happens here in the USA and gay marriage is not legal in the US, with 2 state exceptions.

Here's something I found about Japanese law, fyi

In 2003, following growing social awareness of GID,[28] a draft of the Exceptional Treatment Act for People with GID (hereafter GID Act) was brought up for discussion. The Act provided five legal conditions that needed to be satisfied to change an individual's legal sex: an applicant should be (1) over 20 years old, (2) not be married at the time, (3) have no children, (4) be deprived of their gonad or gonad function, and (5) have external genital organs similar to other members of the sex to which they were being reassigned. When the applicant has fulfilled these conditions and has been adjudged to have altered their legal sex by a Family Court, the applicant can then be treated as a member of his/her new legal sex with respect to the application of the Civil Code and other laws and ordinances. For instance, FtM (female-to-male) transsexuals who change their legal sex can get married to female partners. One year after the Act came into force in July 2004, the Division of Family Affairs in the Japanese Supreme Court announced that 208 of 218 petitions to change sex were accepted during this period

Here's the google cache of the article.
Though true, Ruka has not went under the knife yet. So my argument still stands as it is that they can't get married unless Ruka goes through the surgey, but case in point to your argument:
Image

That is the hand of a man. I don't care how many times you guys are going to say that it's Ruka till your face turns blue, it is NOT Ruka and they are NOT getting married. Sex change operations don't magically transform your body into a man. You get get your penis inverted or you get a penis attatched, nothing else to your body changes. You can body build, take steroids, cut your hair, gain weight -- But your body would never fully be a man. Fairy tale endings don't happen that way and it would be such a lame pull on the writers to in fact

1) Change Michiru's sexual orientation. No matter what, Michiru will become a lesbian if she becomes attracted to Ruka

2) Make Sousuke's death more of a copout then it was already

3) Piss off a lot of sensible viewers and also contradict what was stated BACK IN EPISODE ONE.

So whatever, they're not getting married. I wish people would stop parading around like its a victory for that pairing when its fact not -- since there was no pairing to begin with!

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Post by sarah117 » Jun 14th, '08, 21:59

although we know that Ruka's marrying to Michiru is nearly impossible, we just want to dream it, can't we? lol..
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Post by anons » Jun 14th, '08, 22:00

I agree with everything LadyMercury said about transgender operations. The fact you do have sex reassignment surgery does not make you have a body which is in all ways like that of a man. I reckon this is a fantasy picture of Sousuke and Michiru. Even the atmosphere looks like a dream - all glowy and stuff.

My question is what Ruka wants to do with herself to make her feel better. Last I heard she was pretty dead set on going to the US for surgery, but I don't quite think it's all attributed to Michiru. If that is so, that is not a valid reason to get surgery and I heavily doubt they would let her go through with it after counselling.

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Post by bmwracer » Jun 14th, '08, 22:25

Ladymercury wrote:
2) Make Sousuke's death more of a copout then it was already
With a capital "C."
If you need me to seed Ueno Juri-chan or Yonekura Ryoko-chan stuff, please PM me. :salut:

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Post by kaperj » Jun 14th, '08, 22:43

Now, my wildest theory is that sosuke didn't die, michru was so moved, that she decides to marry him.
then Ruka tries to overturn the wedding on the day....

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Post by ^Yuuki » Jun 14th, '08, 23:02

My long rant for Episode 10...

First scene, phew~
It was amusing when Sosuke started er...nibbling on her neck but good job with the broken lamp Ruka! He should be lucky that it wasn't the broken pieces instead...And yeay, the cup got fixed~ Too bad about Takeru's movie job. But at least the damage on his hand isn't permanent. There should be chances in the future. But something he said to Michiru made me go 'hmm'. About it being a betrayal to Ruka if she gives up and goes back(to Sosuke or how it was before). So is that what 'the betrayal' refered to in the monologues? Isn't it a kinda weak reason for her to be in 'I deserve to be alone forever because I betrayed you' mode? It's not like she intended to/willingly go back to him. Hmm, well, I hope it's related to 'the decision' that she makes at the start of the next episode.
Sosuke and the boy.
I still don't really get the significance of this plotline other than to display Sosuke's contradictory nature and to get pity points from the viewers(and to use him to send letters)...If they don't properly explain why he's like this in the first place, the time used for this could have been put into other characters...I'm glad that the kid had a good ending at least.
Eri, finding yet another clue about Ruka. I think Ruka telling her would be a matter of time and she'll be able to accept it easier than the rest. As for Takeru, his role is pretty much 'the mediator' in this episode(and series). Both of their issues though, haven't been developed as much. From the impression the OP gave us from the start, we just assumed that all 5 of their issues carry the same weight and would get equal screentime. Apparently not...but understandable given the time restriction and the main DV issue they have to work the storyline around. Since the initial conception of the series had just two main characters(Michiru and Ruka) I guess they would give more focused on that. While I think in Ruka's case, it was fleshed out superbly, everything from the writing, acting and how they handled the issue, Michiru's issue could have been the same had they pulled back a little on the shock value and thriller elements. I guess it worked to pull in viewers judging from the rating spike for the episodes where someone is about to be beaten/stabbed/raped/die. Geh...Well, it's good that ep10 manage to get 20.9% but it'll be funny if the ratings for the finale is lower than that...

Back to the episode, we have another overhearing scene. Sharehouse is not a good place to stay if you have secrets to keep eh?
But I really like how Ruka expressed her feelings. (Interesting that they focused on her back instead when she described about their friendship and how Michiru dissappeared. But just listening to her voice was enough.) If Takeru wasn't there, I dunno if those feelings would ever get out in the open. She fears that the precious memories that Michiru has of their friendship would get tainted and that she'll lose Michiru for good once she knows the truth. Her ultimate concern isn't the fact that Michiru won't love her back. She knows that it's impossible from the start and have reiterated that from her speech and actions. Her selfless-ness is both her good and bad parts. There needs to be a moderation. Ruka and Sosuke should really learn from Takeru. He expresses his feelings but still fully supports the other person even if they don't feel the same.

That said, I have no complains with how Michiru reacted to the shocking and unexpected truth. She ran to the park and to her usual sanctuary but with what Ruka just said reverbrating in her mind, she can't see that place with the same eye anymore. And lol, nice touch with the two schoolgirls there, prompting Michiru and the viewers to wonder "is it an innocent as it looks?". That's how she started to recall about their previous interactions and starts to wonder about them. About the motives behind Ruka's kindness. Like Ruka said, her pure memories are now tainted. Add in Sosuke's previous comment about Ruka to her confused mind...I don't blame her for leaving. But Ruka knowing that Michiru knows, should have talked with her properly and not just always let Takeru be the 'red string'. He even went as far as asking if Michiru can't ACCEPT Ruka's feelings...while she listens in on their conversation. ORZ. I think we probably won't get a heart-to-heart talk out of these two until the last episode... Michiru's answer to Takeru's question seems hopeful. "It's not that. I just don't know what I should do now. What kind of face I should show when looking at Ruka. No matter in what way, I can't respond to Ruka's feelings." So, I think she can eventually accept it and the friendship is still there, just that she won't be able to return the same feelings. "That gap will always be there, it's painful." Takeru understands...But at this point, she doesn't know about Ruka's real problem and the true understanding about the depth of Ruka's feelings would come later in the episode.
Next is my favourite part in this episode.
Ruka and her dad's heart-to-heart talk. With Takeru's presence as moral support. My heart was in my throat when Ruka starts to tell him the truth. All I can say is I'm proud of Ruka when she tells him to not worry and promises that she'll find happiness in her own way. Being able to say that straight up to her dad without wavering was awesome. Then the apology for dissappointing him. I think I can hug Papa-san for his great reply. You can see how important they are to each other and feel how much the truth and acceptance means to both of them. Like Ruka, elder Kishimoto doesn't want to show how much the news affected him in front of her. Having him breaking down in front of Takeru adds to the real-ness of how they're treating this issue and the way he nostalgically reminisce about Ruka being his precocious but cute daughter, it was beautiful. Well done Asano Taeko~
At last, the final part which I have a lot of conflicting emotions about...
Michiru going there in the first place and believing him again and again was stupid. But at least she really thought that he had given up and it wasn't on her own accord. Gave her a reason to 'accidentally' find the protective charm too. The only part I liked was her confronting Sosuke about Ruka. Hearing about what Ruka said and did, the flashbacks to the numerous times Ruka had selflessly protected her, I wonder what Michiru feels while tightly gripping the charm. The reversal of roles from the end of last episode is amusing. Sosuke is now 'provoking' Michiru into action. The thought that he did something to Ruka was the last straw. Nice slap. Definitely too nice. "I'm going back to Ruka's...Ruka and the other's place!" Uhuh, can't say 'I'm going back to Ruka' in front of him. But it's still...too late to realize her mistake...the stuff after that was a bit surreal. The silence and the black and white tones only served to enhance Masami and Ryo's dialogues. So it only took some tears and a bunch of pictures for him to realize his mistake? Heheh, everything he's done probably just caught up with him. Well, I don't know if suicide is the best ending but I'd rather that than watching the other characters crash and burn with him. They alternate the OMG scene with Ruka's. Probably meant to show something significant between both scenes and how different their fate is despite loving the same person. The bloody wedding dress remains a question mark since it hasn't been mentioned before. Like Lady Esmeralda says, there should be a letter somewhere. But it's obvious that Sosuke's dead so those that thinks otherwise, don't hold your breath. The voice at the end isn't a sign. Just a sad parting note from Sosuke to Michiru("I've set you free") and to follow up with the voiceover during the last preview("I won't leave you until I die").
On a whole, what I mostly felt was relief tinge with sadness with this episode. Now that it's over with, it's time for a proper 2nd season...A wishful thinking from my part. But I feel they do have lots of materials and stuff to work on if they really want to. We'll just have to settle with 1 hour to wrap things up...plus an extra 1.5 hour if we're lucky. Let's hope it's worth it. About the preview,
The wedding, I highly doubt Ruka and Michiru would get married (the pic was just a joke). But it's kinda intriguing eh? Ogurin won't be in the picture anymore. Is it enough time for Eri to find another guy? or Takeru to overcome his issue and find someone? Is it just a dream sequence? or are they considering a Proposal Daisakusen version of Last Friends? Haha. They're playing with us. I'll post more if I find out. =3

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Post by hanapyupyu » Jun 14th, '08, 23:31

Gosh, this show is quite something isn't it? Until the very last epi, it manages to draw us viewers into heated debates! :lol

^^Yuuki, that PS wedding photo is very sweet. Really. LOL. Hey, don't lose heart, Michiru/Ruka devotees. They may still be able to ride off into the sunset together on Ruka's bike as the preview cap is teasing us with the possibilities. hee.

I'm too tired to read all the posts right now but here's a link to read the translated excerpts from Article 5 - Q & A with Taeko Asano, (^Yuuki translated a few other parts already and posted it a few pages back). This excerpt would interest the fans of Takeru/Ruka (trust me, you don't want to miss reading this :mrgreen: ). Taeko Asano gives her compliments to Eita and Juri as the cream of the crop. (But we've been saying that here all along, haven't we? Juri and Eita stole the show, handsdown! :thumleft: )

http://www.crunchyroll.com/group/Eita/p ... +wrestling

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ainhoa
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Post by ainhoa » Jun 14th, '08, 23:54

^Yuuki wrote:My long rant for Episode 10...



Sosuke and the boy.
I still don't really get the significance of this plotline other than to display Sosuke's contradictory nature and to get pity points from the viewers(and to use him to send letters)...If they don't properly explain why he's like this in the first place, the time used for this could have been put into other characters...I'm glad that the kid had a good ending at least.
It's because the boy reminds him of himself. Being abandoned by his parents and all. And he in turn treats Michiru like an object because he doesn't want to be abandoned by her, either.

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fayenatic
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Post by fayenatic » Jun 15th, '08, 01:11

Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
well im glad you felt better now that you're done ranting. so are you calling all the viewers who think differently not 'sensible'? whats up with the haterade? Just 'cause your opinion differs from other viewers, it doesnt give you a right to be obnoxious. So what if they think that it's Ruka in the wedding? How does that effect YOU in any way?
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fayenatic
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Post by fayenatic » Jun 15th, '08, 01:16

^Yuuki wrote:
Back to the episode, we have another overhearing scene. Sharehouse is not a good place to stay if you have secrets to keep eh?
]
haha i thought the same thing. the danger of paper thin walls hahah
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Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » Jun 15th, '08, 01:18

fayenatic wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
well im glad you felt better now that you're done ranting. so are you calling all the viewers who think differently not 'sensible'? whats up with the haterade? Just 'cause your opinion differs from other viewers, it doesnt give you a right to be obnoxious. So what if they think that it's Ruka in the wedding? How does that effect YOU in any way?
I think I have the right to express my opinion that is different from the majority. :whistling: It's not haterade dear, its called an opinion. 8)

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Post by rulan » Jun 15th, '08, 02:09

anons wrote:I agree with everything LadyMercury said about transgender operations. The fact you do have sex reassignment surgery does not make you have a body which is in all ways like that of a man. I reckon this is a fantasy picture of Sousuke and Michiru. Even the atmosphere looks like a dream - all glowy and stuff.

My question is what Ruka wants to do with herself to make her feel better. Last I heard she was pretty dead set on going to the US for surgery, but I don't quite think it's all attributed to Michiru. If that is so, that is not a valid reason to get surgery and I heavily doubt they would let her go through with it after counselling.
ok seriously...i agree that females are built differently but it does NOT mean that someone who's female can't have a male body. plus what is a male body anyway? lots of guys are so large that they have breast while others look extremely girly that they can be mistaken for a girl. So unless your idea of a male body is someone from Abercrombie (which is stupid since the majority of the population doesn't look like that) then seeing ruka with a male body is believable. I've seen many girls that have had a sex change and I wouldn't have never known they used to be a girl until I saw the scar under their breast.

Basically a transgender can either choose to have: a sex change meaning they get surgical removal or implants of certain body parts, or they can just choose to undergo hormone treatments. For females with testosterone's injections the person can grow their genitals similar to those of a male. It might not be as large as a guy depending on what age they undergo the treatment but it does make a difference. It will also help them to grow facial hair and increase muscle mass. Though to have a built body a person would have to exercise and work out no matter if they are a girl, guy, or transgendered.
Ladymercury wrote: I think I have the right to express my opinion that is different from the majority. :whistling: It's not haterade dear, its called an opinion. 8)
it's not even haterade it's hatred and an opinion should be given in a civil manner. since they is an online forum we can't see you so we can only determine your emotions from the way you write your words. nothing is impossible and nothing is forever. unless you plan on living in a ball, while your life inside the ball won't change the people outside the ball still will. so let's refrain from saying never.
Last edited by rulan on Jun 15th, '08, 02:16, edited 1 time in total.
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ashton
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Post by ashton » Jun 15th, '08, 02:11

rulan wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:
Besides, having a sex change doesn't mean you miraculously become a man. You still have a feminine body, regardless.
you obviously never did any research or study this subject. so i'm not even going to bother explaining to you.
That's okay. I'll explain it. I'll focus on female-to-male (FTM) transitions since that's what's most relevant to the show.

In short, having a sex change is just that- a change of sex. To begin with, undergoing a transition requires years of mental and physical therapy. After being diagnosed with GID, an FTM person will usually begin a regimen of testosterone injections, which invoke a series of physiological changes that include the redistribution of muscle and decrease in body fat (leading to a masculine build as opposed to a curvier feminine shape) and the growth of body and facial hair. Most will then go on to have a double mastectomy- and sometimes chest reconstruction surgery- in order to have a male chest. And about as many have surgery to remove their reproductive innards.

The extent to which someone who is FTM will undergo a sex change differs from person to person, largely due to factors like personal levels of discomfort and money. Most will only take testosterone and basic surgery as there haven't really been any cases of successful, affordable phalloplasty surgeries.

Anyway, the point is that aside from the fact that someone like Ruka would, after all those surgeries, be a man. The only difference is that a trans person does not have the reproductive capacities of their newly assigned sex.

And if you still think that someone who is FTM will always have a feminine body, just take a look at some of these people:
(note: these pictures range from G to PG- none of them are "dirty" or "inappropriate")
Image
Image
And there are plenty more where they came from. Most female-to-male transitions are so successful that you would have no clue they were born female unless they tell you.
Those guys were born female and now live as men.


As for one major "concern" about Michiru...
If Michiru were to reciprocate Ruka's feelings, she wouldn't automatically "become" a lesbian. First of all, Ruka sees herself as a man. Should she undergo FTM transition, then she will become a man and any romantic relationship between her and Michiru would, in effect, be heterosexual. If Ruka were to remain female and the two of them hooked up, Michiru still wouldn't be a lesbian. At most, she'd be considered bisexual. Or we might just say that she happens to be a straight woman who fell in love with another woman. Just look at all of the straight girls here who now have crushes on Ueno Juri if you need an example. Sexuality is fluid (arguably more so in women than men, but whatevs), so why bother trying to pin it down?
Sorry. I just had to clear up some of that mess.

^Yuuki wrote:
Ruka and her dad's heart-to-heart talk. With Takeru's presence as moral support. My heart was in my throat when Ruka starts to tell him the truth. All I can say is I'm proud of Ruka when she tells him to not worry and promises that she'll find happiness in her own way. Being able to say that straight up to her dad without wavering was awesome. Then the apology for dissappointing him. I think I can hug Papa-san for his great reply. You can see how important they are to each other and feel how much the truth and acceptance means to both of them. Like Ruka, elder Kishimoto doesn't want to show how much the news affected him in front of her. Having him breaking down in front of Takeru adds to the real-ness of how they're treating this issue and the way he nostalgically reminisce about Ruka being his precocious but cute daughter, it was beautiful. Well done Asano Taeko~
You took the words right out of my mouth. I have to admit that i found that scene to be one of the most emotional and touching in the entire series. Ruka's worry made my throat tighten (i can't imagine telling my dad that sort of thing, and i'm about as close to my dad as she is to hers). But what really got me teary-eyed was his reaction. He loves her and will support her no matter what, and that's such a rare thing. So many parents cannot or will not accept their transgendered children and to see her dad respond in such a reassuring way is just incredible. And the part where he breaks down with Takeru was wonderfully done. The whole thing was awesome, in fact.
Sorry, everyone. I know i'm long-winded. I get the urge to pipe up now and again. It feels like a lot of people don't understand what's going on and i'm just trying to help clear anything that might seem confusing or that people simply don't know anything about. And, of course, i just have to comment on casual stuff once in a while.

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Post by rulan » Jun 15th, '08, 02:18

ashton: damn that first picture is hot. hehe thanks for showing proofs with images. i gotta prepare dinner so i can't search now.
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Post by avieamber » Jun 15th, '08, 02:52

yeah, i wouldn't have known if they didn't reveal that they were born female. wow... :blink

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fayenatic
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Post by fayenatic » Jun 15th, '08, 03:43

Ladymercury wrote:
fayenatic wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK ITS RUKA. JAPAN DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES IN THE KOSEKI. GOD. And I doubt that a Christian church would even allow that Union in their halls.

Come on people, THINK. Michiru could not properly come to terms with the knowledge that Ruka likes her in a romantic way. In episode one she is writing Ruka a letter saying that she is alone and will always be alone.

PEOPLE. Ruka/Michiru is not going to happen! This isn't anime this isn't Sailormoon. There is no star crossed lovers here. My god people, my god. :cussing:
I feel better getting that off of my shoulders. lol
well im glad you felt better now that you're done ranting. so are you calling all the viewers who think differently not 'sensible'? whats up with the haterade? Just 'cause your opinion differs from other viewers, it doesnt give you a right to be obnoxious. So what if they think that it's Ruka in the wedding? How does that effect YOU in any way?
I think I have the right to express my opinion that is different from the majority. :whistling: It's not haterade dear, its called an opinion. 8)
you mean your condescending opinion? :scratch:
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Post by Rukafan » Jun 15th, '08, 03:51

Hi, I'm new to this thread. I could not retain myself from joining this discussion.

I somehow still hope that Ruka can end up with Takeru. Its just that to me, Michiru never really loves Ruka the way Ruka loves her. I think it would be awkward for her to suddenly accept Ruka's love. I think someone had said this before and i am just agreeing with them.

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Post by m-ayu » Jun 15th, '08, 04:07

^ Well same thing goes with Ruka's feeling toward Takeru, she couldn't love Takeru the way he loves her.
Imo Ruka is in the same situation with Michiru, if we're talking about feeling at least. (not GID and DV part)
Only Ruka already 'make peace' with Takeru's feeling (in ep. 8 ), while till now, Michiru toward Ruka's feeling hasn't.

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Post by Rori » Jun 15th, '08, 04:09

Ruka said herself in the latest episode, to her dad, that she'll never be able to love a man, too. Whether Michiru does or doesn't answer her feelings, Ruka still won't end up with Takeru.
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Post by siutou_amy » Jun 15th, '08, 05:41

Rori wrote:
Ruka said herself in the latest episode, to her dad, that she'll never be able to love a man, too. Whether Michiru does or doesn't answer her feelings, Ruka still won't end up with Takeru.
That's true.
But who's to know that if Ruka goes through the surgery, that she will identify as a gay man? But that's another subject not for the show... Can happen in real life, of course~~

Anyway, are we clear on who does Michiru feels something for? We know she felt sort of something when she saw Ruka and Takeru together, but do we know that it's because she liked Takeru? She keeps on asking him and Ruka about it, but both are friends... at who are Michiru's feelings pointing?

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Post by vege-okonomiyaki » Jun 15th, '08, 06:08

Ladymercury wrote:
Image

That is the hand of a man. I don't care how many times you guys are going to say that it's Ruka till your face turns blue, it is NOT Ruka and they are NOT getting married. Sex change operations don't magically transform your body into a man. You get get your penis inverted or you get a penis attatched, nothing else to your body changes. You can body build, take steroids, cut your hair, gain weight -- But your body would never fully be a man. Fairy tale endings don't happen that way and it would be such a lame pull on the writers [... ] [EDIT]
There's nothing in that picture that says 'that's not Ruka' to me.

Re: transgender operations - so you didn't see Oprah hit world headlines a few months ago?

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/20 ... 0403.jhtml

You'd be surprised how fast things can change with hormones.

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Post by magicmusic » Jun 15th, '08, 06:24

Wow, I don't even know what to say in regards to this latest discussion.

First off:
Ruka and Michiru will not be getting married. Come on. And whoever said that once Ruka becomes a male, Michiru might suddenly fall in love... :blink
And secondly:
Gender and sexual orientation are two separate things. Ruka won't turn into a gay male after taking hormones and fall for Takeru. She likes women. She even said so to her father. Whether she likes them as a woman or as a man, that orientation is completely separate from whatever gender she identifies as.

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Post by avieamber » Jun 15th, '08, 06:28

oh wow....a very interesting read. :blink thanks for the link.


that said, the picture above might be Ruka and Michiru after all, BUT the thing is, will the writers go THAT FAR into the issue? It is an Asian community we're talking about here, and i know that it's awesome that they took the risk/courage to discuss about this GID issue in the series and having Ueno Juri playing that role is just amazing. But i don't think the writers will go to that extent of having her turning into male and getting married with Michiru in the end. It's a possibility but it might be too far-fetched in this case.

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^Yuuki
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Post by ^Yuuki » Jun 15th, '08, 06:41

ashton: Thanks for enlightening us. Haha. And the pic, I must say, wow! o.o
hanapyupyu wrote: ^^Yuuki, that PS wedding photo is very sweet. Really. LOL. Hey, don't lose heart, Michiru/Ruka devotees. They may still be able to ride off into the sunset together on Ruka's bike as the preview cap is teasing us with the possibilities. hee.
Haha, the bike, from what I gather...I think it should be Takeru and Ruka. Doesn't mean they're riding off to the sunset together. ^^

Here's a new interview with Ueno Juri:
Fuji TV minute 12/6/08
(savannah t-shirt~ what she wore during the episode ^^)
It's short so I translated what she said:
There's a lot of hardships and various obstacles to overcome...in order to aim towards acheiving liberation at the end. Currently these kind of things does happen(GID), but those people can't show themselves at the forefront. So those people that are facing the same obstacles, I really hope that like Ruka, they can slowly start to move towards their own liberation and able to obtain the strength to continue living.

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Post by avieamber » Jun 15th, '08, 06:50

^^yuuki thanks for the link. great advice. kudos again to her for taking the challenging role. I'm sure a lot of people will be inspired by her, especially those who have GID. :salut: :thumright:

anyway soft subs ep 10 is out!
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_60626.htm

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Post by ^Yuuki » Jun 15th, '08, 07:06

Well, I don't think it's just people with GID, all the sexual minorities in Japan(or outside) in particular. I think what have been portrayed so far would echo within them as well. It's really great and rare for a prime time drama to portray a storyline like this in a positive light. This drama have really broken barriers. Hopefully it will prompt the other dramas in the future to tackle more controversial issues. :thumright:

And of course for Ueno Juri to challenge a role that would have been very hard to portray convincingly if it were any other actress. Seriously, I can't imagine anyone else in that role now. :thumleft:

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Post by mahirghari » Jun 15th, '08, 07:24

OMG EP 10, the perfect resolution to the psychopath scenario:
HE KILLS HIMSELF! OMG, WHEN I SAW THAT IT FELT SO DAMN SATISFYING!!!
Cause of that, Last Friends is now, without a doubt, the best drama ever! And its not even over!

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Post by avieamber » Jun 15th, '08, 08:03

mahirghari wrote:OMG EP 10, the perfect resolution to the psychopath scenario:
HE KILLS HIMSELF! OMG, WHEN I SAW THAT IT FELT SO DAMN SATISFYING!!!
Cause of that, Last Friends is now, without a doubt, the best drama ever! And its not even over!
while at first i thought that was too much of an easy way out for him to just commit suicide like that, after watching that episode for the second time, i begin to understand why the writers decided to let him die that way. It's a self-resolution. Although his troubled past might have prompted him to act the way he is now, and a much BETTER way to solve his problem is probably taking psychological treatment rather than killing himself over it. But like what the scene of him looking at the pictures and crying like that is trying to show us, committing suicide does seem like an appropriate way to end his character. Even though he chose to die, at least now he finally understood what true happiness is or pure bliss, something he couldn't give Michiru. And he finally know he had always been on the wrong side.

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