[Discussion] Proposal Daisakusen (Operation Love)

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
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myunoyume
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Post by myunoyume » Jun 26th, '07, 20:17

daisukides wrote:
edit: Glad I'm not the only one who liked the ending :-)
I join your team, saying we liked this ending :)

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daisukides
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Post by daisukides » Jun 26th, '07, 20:32

myunoyume wrote:
daisukides wrote:
edit: Glad I'm not the only one who liked the ending :-)
I join your team, saying we liked this ending :)
And with that I'm back to happy again! I was getting a little down :unsure:

About the wind blowing in the first episode, I think it was Ken walking in to give his speech. It was the exact same time, you can tell by the people watching (or listening to? I can't remember) the marathon.
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daisukides
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Post by daisukides » Jun 26th, '07, 20:58

Ken: boku wa...
me: Rei no koto ga - Rei no koto ga!!! *clenshing fists*
Ken: boku wa...
me: Rei no koto ga - Rei no koto ga!!!!!!!!! *screaming*
Ken: Rei no koto ga
me: yes! yes!
Ken: .. suki deshita
me: deshita? :blink

For a moment I thought he was pulling a "Rei speech," saying he used to love her but has moved on. But then if I'm not mistaken he says he still loves her.

From now on, I'm calling this THE SCENE
That's right, the kiss has been demoted :lol
sorry for double posting :whistling:
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Post by joeboygo » Jun 26th, '07, 21:06

daisukides wrote: And with that I'm back to happy again! I was getting a little down :unsure:
Oops. I'm sorry about that. I was not trying to rain on your parade. I am honestly relieved that some of you are happy with the result, and the purpose of my posts from here on out is definitely NOT to persuade you to be unhappy. If you liked the ending then we are basically on the same side of the fence, because we all shared the desire to see the obstacle between Rei and Kenzo removed, and for all intents and purposes, we got that. The only difference between us is that while we all want the same thing, some of us are content with what is there already, while others want more. Much much more.

So from here on out, I will express my disappointment in spolier tags, so that those who are already pleased will not be disturbed in their enjoyment. And let me make this clear. Despite my own unhapiness with HOW the scriptwriter chose to make Rei+Kenzo happen, I take some consolation from the fact that at the very least, Rei+Kenzo happened or will happen.

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daisukides
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Post by daisukides » Jun 26th, '07, 21:20

joeboygo - I wasn't targeting you or anything, so no need to apologize :-)
Everybody should be allowed to rant freely here. God knows we need it right now, whatever we feel about the ending.
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Post by w3bhead » Jun 26th, '07, 22:45

hadmish wrote:first, not related at all...
w3bhead
i love your motto.....Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you are up to.....so true, and yet too funny.
I hope u dont mind if I use it..... :unsure:
Sure hadmish, no problem. :)
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Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you are up to. :wub:

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Post by hadmish » Jun 26th, '07, 23:41

joeboygo - u said everything I was thinking. I'm so with you!!
and I didn't hate the ending. I like these kind of endings usually....
but it's just the way it was done. it just put me off.

yes, it took guts to get up there and make that speech. and yes, its only a romantic drama, and its nice they promote love and friendship over other reasons to get married. especially in a country where most marriages are out of comfort and are sexless. but think of the message it sends! I know affairs are acceptable and expected here but instead of saying that its bad, it goes to say - anything goes if you REALLY love the person. is that so?

this must be the ugliest, most self absorbed way to confess. Ken did not think about anyone but himself. everyone in there were there to support Tada and Rei. think of his friends, I'd wonna punch him! not to mention his parents. even her parents? its just out of place at that point in time. He had said he liked Tada. nice way of showing you like someone...
and the worst is he didnt think of Rei. where would this put her? let's say Tada wasnt the greater man and wouldn't have let her go - she might just live a life full of regret, not wanting to hurt Tada, whom she at least likes!.

someone said in this thread that Ken respected her coz he didnt force her throughout the drama. true, and I thought that was noble b4 the finale. in the finale he put her in the worst position ever, he not only not respected her, he was totally inconsiderate. as she's already made her choice, she wasnt about to leave Tada (until he let her go). it would make things way too awkward between the two as friends, thus ruin the friendship as well. so it was an 'all or nothing' thing - and yeah, that took guts, but also Ken needed to be selfish not to think about what it did to Rei. what was the point of the confession at that time, if not to make her leave/divorce Tada?

so yes, this makes you think that you'd better think hard before you get married, and dont settle for anyone, left you live to regret it. but, oh uhm, if you're already married and suddenly realize you love someone else, its perfectly OK to dump the groom and hurt him and everyone else in the process.

so yes, I think it was a happy ending as such. I think also it was done in the dirtiest, most disrespectful, selfish way.

end of rant.....need to get over this ending. its Japan. we cant expect it to make sense....

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Post by newyorker278 » Jun 27th, '07, 03:45

joeboygo wrote:
For now, let me get these random ideas out:
Sakurachan, I'm sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. In Japan the divorce rate is not yet as high as it is here in the U.S., but if more garbage like this filters into their popular culture, they will eventually catch up. Here in the U.S., the reality is grim: Exactly half of all marriages end in divorce, so you have, at best, a 50/50 chance of making it work. Guys, if you sincerely want a girl to be happy in her marriage, keep any residual feelings you may have for her to yourself. The day to day burdens of marriage will impose a lot of stress on her union with her husband, and the knowledge that another man out there likes her does nothing but augment an already heavy load on their relationship. And girls, if you are not sure about your feelings, then DON'T SAY "I DO." Take your marital vows seriously. They aren't ordinary words. Call me old-fashioned for thinking this way, but I am a hopeless romantic, and the only way the concept behind the classic line "and they lived happily ever after" can work is if we preserve a sense of finality and permanence in our relationships upon which we can depend.

As a man, I don't buy any of that "I'll just share my feelings and then quit" crap. Any kind of confession is an act of courtship. Why else would a guy want a girl to know how he feels? And if he does it at any time after the vows, then he is making a play for someone else's wife and is just begging her husband for a fight. What got my goat was the clapping that Ken received from the guests, which sort of implies societal approval for his bush-league move. If I were Tada I would be more humiliated by the clapping than being deserted by Rei. Worse still, the fairy sends Rei off with the message that, yes, you are married at this point, but the possibilities are still endless if you open your heart to them. :O O.M.F.G. In a Catholic church no less! If this does not imply an endorsement of divorce by the allmighty then I don't know jack about symbolism. This kind of bullsh*t message is the last thing this show's young audience needs to hear.
as a moderate catholic myself, i have to agree that the concluding scenes in this episode were a little far-fetched. therefore, i didn't take the "this drama is fiction" with a grain of salt. hello, my name's jerome, and i think tomohisa's cool because he studies at meiji.
when you think of all the episodes preceding the wedding, religion has no significant venue in the series. to a degree, "religion" here is believing in other people, and for a while, such was lost in ken and rei's topsy-turvy relationship. when i think about it, the last episode attempted to make a balance between ken's monotonous soliloquies of, "why the hell didn't i act appropriately?" and rei's, "i can't believe the stubborn me didn't see this all along". of course, the characters were sequestered within a christian atmosphere, but japanese prefer this kind of wedding because it's more ornamental, paralleling with their materialist culture. it's contrary to the traditional, japanese-style wedding, where rituals with significant meaning come into play, and because understanding those meanings are important in and out of the ceremony, the western-style wedding enables newlyweds to expend their admiration for each without the hassle of understanding the symbols.

in the first episode, when the priest was blessing the two, his voice and presence were superseded by the couple, the audience coming to support them, and the "sanctified" scenery. one can assume that the priest's presence was simply a "tool" to help viewers understand that this absolutely was a wedding, and the two would "become one," but not in a theological sense.

i can't argue against you against divorce rates and long-term commitments for couples in america, namely because i live in america, too (the new york metropolitan area, to be exact). i've studied abroad in tokyo, too, and as a "participant observer" in a shape of a foreigner, relationships are completely ambiguous; physical affection--although becoming more and more evident as i type--is rarely shown in a couple, and furthermore, technologies have enabled couples, extramarital couples, and the lot to engage in variegated activities (you can think for yourselves on that one) without the inconvenience of disturbing neighbors. only direct contact allows people like me and you to see how much japanese separate romantic relationships from the serious modes of work and family life. cosmetically, this kind of venue looks efficient, as relationships are relationships and work is work. but because marriage is a rite which intermingles and supersedes the life of the individual as a worker, as a boyfriend/girlfriend (or what have you), responsibilities are now to be dealt with as a team. (and that's where i hoped the three-legged race picture would have some monumental impact)

also, it's true that there's an, "I'll just share my feelings and then quit" mentality in the series, but isn't that how you create and struggle through relationships? in this course of fiction, ken's the angel here, with the one-track mind. rei, who's been straddling the fence since tada entered her life, doesn't have the fortune of having an ultimatum since love, generally speaking, isn't a straightaway path. you ask, "why else would a guy let a girl know how he feels?" and i answer in a non-theological statement that men have blunt intentions of dating a girl, and vice-versa, and not necessarily revealing everything. who said that inter-gendered relationships entailed love and marriage? additionally, feelings change with time. rei's definition of normalcy meant moving on from questions which seemingly couldn't be answered; the last episode shows her willingness to give up and supposedly start anew.

i've gotta expire now since this has become ridiculously long.

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aatm
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Post by aatm » Jun 27th, '07, 04:02

I think that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's my opinion that it should be expressed...respectfully.

RANT ON
comments like "it's japan. we can't expect it to make sense" should be expressed less...generally, and perhaps more carefully?. ultimately it's just a tv show and it would be ridiculous for someone to extract a stereotype just because they have been brought up differently...especially extracting a stereotype on reality based on a work of fiction.

and no, i don't think that the message being proposed here is, "that you'd better think hard before you get married, and dont settle for anyone, left you live to regret it. but, oh uhm, if you're already married and suddenly realize you love someone else, its perfectly OK to dump the groom and hurt him and everyone else in the process."

are we expected that if the ending happened happily ever after, that we should believe that fairy's and timeslipping is real as well? of course not. just because something isn't so blatantly fantasy doesn't make it reality. it's entertainment and it could be that we're missing some underlying cultural factor as most of us weren't brought up in japanese culture. or maybe we're not missing anything and what happened is as what it seems.
RANT OFF

so yeah, i just hope that i didn't upset too many people. i just saw somethings that...in my opinion...could've been done differently...in my opinion...just as many people feel that the ending to ProDai could've been done differently.
please don't tar and feather me

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Post by hadmish » Jun 27th, '07, 04:31

aatm..
the whole idea for the forum is to give our opinions, isnt it? I think we all respect each other's opinions even if we disagree.
and personally, they've all enlightened me and made me think about it more. which is the beautiful thing about this ending, and the drama as a whole - it makes you think and feel, you are not dictated a story and then just forget about it the next day - it makes you go deeper and try to understand more, read into it more - and more amazing is how people see different things in it. it's the beauty of free speech (and opinion, and imagination!)

and I do think you made me think about things...

I might have been over thinking. I love watching Japanese TV and stuff, but I do it mostly for my Phd thesis. the focus is on how TV in Japan mirrors and affects society. so I may have gone overboard, as I was analyzing it from that aspect rather than as you rightly said, its just entertainment.

as for the comment about Japan....I guess years of living here in Japan, Im used to making that comment....I guess its an inside joke with all my mates here when we get frustrated! its not right or correct, but its a good way to just vent about the differences here, and I can write a book about those! sorry, I will be more careful in the future!

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Post by Lockewinter » Jun 27th, '07, 04:44

I don't think anyone would tar and feather you for expressing something so respectfully, aatm. I quite agree with you actually, on that matter.
When I read that post, I thought the comment at the end was not in good taste either. I think opinions should stay more in line with the scope of the drama. ProDai alone can shed little light on the matter of storytelling in an entire region and its general merits or drawbacks.

I must say, I am taken aback by the comments, in much the same way I was with people's reaction to Kurosagi. I thought it was taken almost for granted that, comparatively, a lot of Japanese fiction ends ambiguously. I myself most often prefer that kind of ending as well, so I find I can't relate to people who want to see something more concrete. (I don't think its because I grew up with it either; I like a lot of concrete endings I've seen as well.)

In any case, my take on the ending was that I loved it. Especially the speech. I actually thought it was very classy and I was quite worried that it would ruin Ken's character and have him do something tacky and jerkish. But it was perfect. My interpretation of the speech is that it was a proposal, not for marriage, but for honesty for the sake of happiness. I saw that he was proposing more of a plan, than a marriage, a way of living. Which is a really interesting way of framing the marriage idea.

I thought Ken's speech was about how long it can take to become honest with yourself and how happiness isn't even to find and how you may not even notice when you have it. It could be said that Ken was notifying Rei of his full intent to carry his promise ("I'll look over you for the rest of my life") and how he would try to work for her happiness, even if that meant she would be happier with Tada. I saw it as giving her a choice to live in honesty with her choices, to not run away.

I think going without saying that another moment would have been a bad idea. Tada would have gone on accepting a woman he got "by accident" and half-knows doesn't love him as much as he does her. Rei would have gone on not stating her true feelings so she doesn't hurt anyone, smoothing over her life with Tada, though she really wants something different. Ken would have gone on regretting that he never says what he means, and being unhappy.

By doing this, Ken saved all three of them from a much more bitter ending later in life. It doesn't really matter which choice Rei makes, as long as she makes it in complete honesty. She could stay with Tada, because she finds she truly would not be as happy with rollercoaster unstable Ken, but now can be more honest with herself with the full knowledge of him by her side. Or she could go to Ken and start things there, and hurt Tada, knowing full well, that when you're honest with yourself and others, it means you eventually have to hurt them for the good of everyone. Or she could say, "Screw these these guys. I'm going to become a hooker in Vegas!" And as long as that's what makes her happy and what she honestly is and needs and wants, Ken will be there for her, fighting for her future. That's the proposal he gave her. In the show's reality, its an Honesty Proposal, to say from now on, it's not necessarily husband and wife, but two honest person who care to bring their full self to bear for the present and future.

In the end, that's more important than, in what is the show's reality, is a the more shallow proposal of regular husband and wife, chapel and reception, bride and groom marriage. In this case, the words speak louder than actions. I may not have expressed it well, but that's how I came to interpret the series after the speech and I really think that was the end of the show right there, and everything after was just falling action.

Wow, this drama was approximately 400 times more complex than I anticipated.

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Post by aatm » Jun 27th, '07, 05:39

hadmish...

totally sorry. after i posted, i left for about a minute, then came back to my senses, tried to login to edit my comment, but it wouldn't let me edit it. and for fear of offending on multiple levels by double posting, i just waited.

i guess i personally from my own experiences in life are a little sensitive to comments which could be perceived as prejudiced in any way, shape, or form. and when i saw your comment, i guess i got a little carried away. i feel like that one person who snapped at joeboygo a while back towards the beginning....ugh. totally sorry.

anways, back on track. i can't comment too much on what i don't understand just as of yet, so until i watch it again with the subs, i won't participate in any of the informed conversation.

again, my apologies.

til the subs are out...

aatm

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Post by CrAcKaJaP206 » Jun 27th, '07, 06:10

the last episode was freakin awesome till the very very end how they cut it like that. maybe i'm too sentimental but i was hoping for maybe just 5 more min to actually show a happy ending and not just assume one.

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Post by hadmish » Jun 27th, '07, 06:18

aatm,
I know you said you won't long on....but for when you do,

I dont know how good your Japanese is, but as for your comment what I'd like to say is -I think it sounds better in Japanese...
それは、こっちのセリフだよ!
meaning - that's my line...I should be the one apologizing! I made a stupid unrelated comment.....didn't mean to offend anyone, I guess its my distorted sense of humor!
Im the first to admit it was wrong. and on the contrary, I'm glad you commented on it. especially, since I dont really feel that way about Japan or Japanese people and things. after all, I'm the one who has chosen to live here!

so, sorry everyone.....and esp aatm, who somehow now thinks he should be apologizing!

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Post by CrAcKaJaP206 » Jun 27th, '07, 06:34

hadmish wrote:aatm,
I know you said you won't long on....but for when you do,

I dont know how good your Japanese is, but as for your comment what I'd like to say is -I think it sounds better in Japanese...
それは、こっちのセリフだよ!
meaning - that's my line...I should be the one apologizing! I made a stupid unrelated comment.....didn't mean to offend anyone, I guess its my distorted sense of humor!
Im the first to admit it was wrong. and on the contrary, I'm glad you commented on it. especially, since I dont really feel that way about Japan or Japanese people and things. after all, I'm the one who has chosen to live here!

so, sorry everyone.....and esp aatm, who somehow now thinks he should be apologizing!
Me being 1/2 Japanese and living in Japan for 8 years and also being bilingual, I really can't say that saying "it's japan. we can't expect it to make sense" is offensive, since I as a Japanese feel the same way at times. and i know that my mom(she's full japanese) would probably have to agree at times as well. It's a completely different culture, it's ok for it to not make sense, sometimes the s**t doesn't make sense to me.

Teyuuka maji dondake! Tatta doramano endingude konnani okoranakutte iinoni :thumleft:

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Post by japysia » Jun 27th, '07, 07:09

I just saw the finale.
I love the ending but tada-san かわいそう :pale: .ちょっと感動しました.Yamapi's acting is so good in this episode.I never like yamapi but only for this single episode i can say that i'm glad that he is the lead actor.It has been so long for a good love story airing in gekku (mon9)time slot.From what i read from some posts in this thread many want rei and kenzo to hug and kiss each other but i'm disagreed with that idea.The mood in this finale was not suitable IMO for them to have a passionate ending.This is also one of the reasons why i love jdoramas more than kdramas.はあ。。。このドラマを見てよかった :thumleft: ,英語はあまり書けないけどがんばりました。 :whistling:
:thumleft: ~ サトラレ ~ 心の声がサトラレる。。。 :thumright:

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Post by ah_blub » Jun 27th, '07, 07:14

after watching it, i felt they could do more on the other chars in the show as well. maybe a 2hr special would be nice to tie loose things up. just like any other popular dramas. the ending in my opinion is not too bad but theres just one thing which bothers me.

is it really right for the scriptwriters to allow the bride or groom to revoke the marriage vows so soon??
I mean, even if the certificate of marriage can be handed at a later time, but is it right to do that?

well for me i felt its not very right. if really want to change or annul the marriage, wouldnt it be better if it happend BEFORE the solemnisation??

just my 2 cents. :)

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Post by BOGCHI » Jun 27th, '07, 08:20

sounds like a good one :thumleft:
anyone care to review http://asiandrama.info/home/J-Dorama/Pr ... -2007.html ?

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Post by myunoyume » Jun 27th, '07, 08:43

I just finished to watch the last ep (even without subs) and definitly..... (read my comments as follows)

...
the clue of Prodai is during the last speech of Ken ! Everything is said and shown.... just look at Rei's and Ken's faces... even Rei's parents.... everything is clear.... Ken did it... he changed the past... now he can starts a new future with Rei and can continue to stay beside her as always...... so I consider this is a good ending fair enough. We, occidental people are too much used to see kisses and big Hug, but love it is not always demonstrated like that... I feel it is really much romantic to hear Rei screaming Kenzo at the end and to see Ken's smile.... that's what we have to learn from Drama in general and Japanese culture... Love can be expressed by different ways.... but truly, you can feel the LOVE between them during the speech.... this moment is tremendous.... gorgeous.... Prodai :wub: I love you.... :)

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Post by ferine » Jun 27th, '07, 10:52

I thought the ending was great.
Even though, I thought Ken should learn his lesson from this grow up and move on because life doesn't end when the person you like most is getting married to someone else, in the end, he did it. He said the magic words. The door to miracle won't open unless you knock on it. And he did. He told Rei he had always liked her. I think the scriptwriter very much got his point across that what's important isn't thinking if one could change the past, what's important is the present which affects the future. I don't think Ken changed the past. After all, what could he do in 10 days. What he managed to change, was the future and himself. From now on, he'll be a person who looks towards the future and not wanting to do anything that he will regret after that. That was the greatest gift from all the time travelling, to learn to treasure the present.

After vomitting lots of blood for the last 10 episodes, and trying to understand why Rei was still saying Ken didn't understand her. I finally understood, it wasn't Ken who didn't understand Rei but the other way round. Ken could do everything, damn he actually confessed a few times, albeit in a less formal way. But Rei never put it to her heart because she had already given up a long time ago. So who was to blame? That's not the question now, as I learnt from the show. The question is what can she change now? What will she do to change the future? And we got the answer at the end didn't we?

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Post by crescent » Jun 27th, '07, 12:00

But my favourite episode is still ep8 !!!
(waiting for the subbed version of ep11)
;)

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Post by Graymouse » Jun 27th, '07, 14:25

It took me some time to digest the ending but I am at peace now :D

Ken's speech woke everyone up from the dream land that they were in. Tada realized that he stepped on Ken's toes several times and didn't realized what he had done. Rei realized that all this time Ken was reaching out to her in Ken's special way but she was blinded by the "childhood friendship"

[I was in one of those type of situations before and it is not fun. I grew up with a girl since we were 4 years old. As we became teenagers and young adults I wanted our friendship to go deeper but she was afraid that it might destroy our friendship and what eventually happened after highshool we started drifting apart and now I haven't seen her for over 12 years.]

I will admit that I was expecting a lot more of an ending then what was given to us but after I thought about it. I can accept that ending. I wasn't expecting a kissing, hugging ending but I was expecting more of a concrete finish. At least see them together walking off into the sunset......(not necessarly going to get married) but becoming a couple.

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Post by crescent » Jun 27th, '07, 15:15

can somebody tell when we could hope to see the subbed version of ep11??
how long are they subbing it?
(just ccan't wait) :D

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Post by lRememberMel » Jun 27th, '07, 15:27

crescent wrote:can somebody tell when we could hope to see the subbed version of ep11??
how long are they subbing it?
(just ccan't wait) :D
yeah.. same here.. but no idea when will be release.. :salut: to the subbers

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Post by sakurachan » Jun 27th, '07, 16:23

Just wanted to say this:
That yousei-san is one cool yousei. :thumright:

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Post by beldaran » Jun 27th, '07, 16:53

as much as i'd like a solid ending of at least seeing her catch up to him somehow...( both of them on the same screen!) i'm content enough.

a few thoughts from me:
- although they've had a ceremony and a reception, i don't think they've registered her into his family yet... and that's what makes it official, right?
- it almost makes me wonder if he bought back some time in the present: taking his own picture and going back earlier than the picture that mikio took, and landing right before hte speech ;)
- i think rei was right to question if they would have been able to take each other more seriously if only they hadn't been childhood friends. it's hard to get out of the long-established comfort level. but, yeah, she was incredibly stubborn.. after giving up, she didn't give him a chance no matter how much he called out to her.. part of it being she'd already committed to tada-san. and it's probably part obligation to tada-san as well as her own feelings.
- i wonder if rei clued in to the yousei's story that he was talking about ken... o___O "there was once a man who went on a journey to fix certain mistakes in the past" (something like that... i'm far away from a copy of the ep right now XD)
- i wonder if the yousei had anything to do with the taxi breaking down and rei being able to catch up, lol

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Post by ilovebakchoy » Jun 27th, '07, 17:08

I just watched the finale. I don't watch a lot of jdrama. I find them draggy at times but I am glad I found this one.
I don't know what people were thinking when they said that the speech was elegant and classy. I thought it was wrong. He abused his position and use someone else's wedding as a platform to declare his love. Yes, he salvaged it at the end when he tacked on "be happy or I won't forgive you", but still, if I were the groom and I was told that I am not the one who should be beside my wife through sickness and health, I would be god damn pissed off. C'mon the groom probably worked his butt off to pay for that wedding. tada trusted Ken to give a good speech but Ken pull something very selfish.

Even though I find it wrong for ken to pull something like this, I can forgive him. That was his last chance to voice his feelings. And ironically, he did not only say it to her. He said it in front of everyone. I always thought he was too shy and prideful to show his vulnerability. What he did was very gutsy.

I thought the ending was very fitting. I like it how there was no clear indication that they are together. Tada let Rei go to find the answer. He didn't say go to Ken and marry him. Rei was only going to find her answer, not hop ship. The ending showed the quest of two getting to know each other's true feelings. Success or not, at least they can be honest with each other now.

If we see that they ended up together, Rei would look like a whore. She was just in the arms of another man and if she was now in the arms of Ken, I don't think anybody would like her as a person. If such action took place, it would be a disrespect to Tada, Ken, and herself. Showing that she had given second thoughts to everything she was so determined to do gives us the hope that she would now consider Ken as a suitor. So a good ending for two relationships, Tada and Rei, Ken and Rei.

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Post by beldaran » Jun 27th, '07, 17:19

btw...

i don't have the episode with me right now.. but i've seen this brought up a couple of times (though i don't profess to have read every single post in the last 10 pages)... and i do believe, if i remember correctly, that he said
until today, i thought i was the only one who could make rei happy
instead of
i'm the only one that can make rei happy
that makes a difference to how the speech was viewed, i think.

i'll have to review it again later and might have to reneg on this statement. but i think i'm remembering it right. lol.

(the talk of wedding speeches makes me want to watch the friends episode when rachel had to give a speech in barry's wedding)

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Post by lRememberMel » Jun 27th, '07, 17:28

where is the subbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb?!?!?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH :cussing:

upssssss :alcoholic: sorry.. :scratch: ... hehehehe :cheers:

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 27th, '07, 17:41

the ending reeked...my proof...

most of the initial discussion was about if this was really the ending, if there was another special, if there was another episode next week we didnt know about, did we translate wrong etc.
AND the people who liked it

took a day or two and rationlized and added so much to the meaning. if you need to write two long paragraphs about what the ending REALLY meant (thats not transparent) then i think its safe to say, the ending failed a bit at expressing itself, no?
:lol give me my ten weeks back!!!

and as for Kurosagi comparisons...

the romance wasnt central to the storyline. if people there didnt get their kiss/hug, well, that wasnt the point of the story. it was just extra. this WAS a romantic story, and one with no payoff
thats it. very dissapointing. and im dissapointed in people who say that japanese accept endings like this. NO< they don't. Crappy endings are crappy endings, and cop-outs and cop-outs. My wife is japanese and cop out endings (such as this one) don't get a thumbs up.
Please visit my homepage! :w00t: [url=http://nikochanr3.blogspot.com/[/url]

AIM me at Nikochanr3 if you like. I''''m bored.

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Post by crescent » Jun 27th, '07, 18:25

well.. I think the ending was very good... cuz.. I don't think it would have made it better if we could see:
Ken: ''I love you''
Rei: '' I love you toooo''
Ken: ''now let's make little babies'' :D:D:D
okY... I know everybody wanted to see a happy ending etc... but it would have been cheap and cheesy...
I don't know...
I think It ended just at the right time...

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Post by doasan » Jun 27th, '07, 18:35

crescent wrote:well.. I think the ending was very good... cuz.. I don't think it would have made it better if we could see:
Ken: ''I love you''
Rei: '' I love you toooo''
Ken: ''now let's make little babies'' :D:D:D
okY... I know everybody wanted to see a happy ending etc... but it would have been cheap and cheesy...
I don't know...
I think It ended just at the right time...
hahahahahaha the best part "now let's make little babies" ahhahahahaha i can't stop laughing....xD :thumright: :thumleft:

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Post by lRememberMel » Jun 27th, '07, 19:12

subtitlte subtitlte subtitlte subtitlte subtitlte subtitlte... kyaaaaaaaaaaaaa :cry: yamate kudasaiiiiii... :cry: :alcoholic: :mrgreen:

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Post by joeboygo » Jun 27th, '07, 19:15

There's one loose end I couldn't tie up and I'm hoping you folks could help me out.
Just before the wedding Rei received Kenzo's engagement ring and saw the inscription Rei+Kenzo on the band. Why didn't she ask him about it? Why was she still smiling in anticipation right before his big speech as if she didn't know something was up?
@lRememberMel

Stop that please. Lunargen IS hauling ass trying to get the subs out pronto, she couldn't even take a break to chat with us here. She does not need additional prompting.

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Post by lRememberMel » Jun 27th, '07, 20:13

joeboygo wrote:There's one loose end I couldn't tie up and I'm hoping you folks could help me out.
Just before the wedding Rei received Kenzo's engagement ring and saw the inscription Rei+Kenzo on the band. Why didn't she ask him about it? Why was she still smiling in anticipation right before his big speech as if she didn't know something was up?
@lRememberMel

Stop that please. Lunargen IS hauling ass trying to get the subs out pronto, she couldn't even take a break to chat with us here. She does not need additional prompting.
huehue I just excited :P dont take it seriously dude... you must be happy everytime.. even I'm so sad right now.. I got some kind situation like iwase ken :-(

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Post by AfricanBean » Jun 27th, '07, 20:40

Yeesh. I've noticed a lot of hostility on this board from both sides of the whole "I liked it" and "I hated it" rift. Why don't we calm down a bit? Discussing it is fine. Believing in different things is also fine. However, putting forth your opinion and calling it fact is not fine.

If you liked it, great, but there's no reason to be snarky when countering the posts of those who didn't. If you absolutely hated it, that's great too, but there's little to no reason to berate people on the forums who did. All I'm asking is that we keep some semblance of respect toward each other.

This post is not targeted at any one individual. It is entirely based on the trends and progression I've seen over the last week or so.

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Post by kilaalaa » Jun 27th, '07, 21:33

@joeboygo:
joeboygo wrote:There's one loose end I couldn't tie up and I'm hoping you folks could help me out. Just before the wedding Rei received Kenzo's engagement ring and saw the inscription Rei+Kenzo on the band. Why didn't she ask him about it? Why was she still smiling in anticipation right before his big speech as if she didn't know something was up?
Well I think thats because Rei was doing what she did best, pretending not to see Ken's little actions as his "confession" and expressions of love.

I mean remember stuttering Ken and the second button on the baseball uniform? I really don't know any girl who would be clueless enough not to sense Ken's feelings.

That Kiss? (Which I have to say, is the best scene of the whole drama) Okay, that kiss could have been taken as a joke but gah I love it so much even if I'm not a yamapi fangirl.

That time when he asked her to go out with him if he hit the can? Even though it was originally a game, will someone who doesn't really mean what he's saying be stuttering when he's asking Rei to go out with him if he hits the can?

Well or maybe she remembered Ken's "proposal", which could be taken to be a joke. I remember someone said that "ore" was a very crude way of putting things. Perhaps she thought it was a continuation of that joke. LOL XD
About Ken's speech:
I don't really see it as a bad confession.

Mainly because I don't think Ken confessed his feelings in hope of getting a reply from Rei. Its not "Hey Rei I confessed to you, what are you going to do about this?"

Rather, than a guy to girl kind of confession, it is more like a guy who is genuinely confessing his feelings about a girl to a crowd of people. More like a narration of a story, a story of a guy who liked this girl nearly all his life.

True, at that point in time, the guests must have been pretty shocked, since when does a guy confess that on someone else's wedding?

But to me it was rather touching towards the end of Ken's speech. Because the fact that a guy who loves a girl this much, is letting her get married to another guy. Ken who had thought that he was the only one who could give Rei happiness, is letting another guy give her happiness. Ken who loves Rei as much as he does, must really really hope that Rei is happier with Tada.

And so this makes his blessings even more impactful. I don't think it would have been so impactful had the guests not known Ken's feelings for Rei.

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Post by Epoxy » Jun 28th, '07, 01:28

You guys got any direct download links for this? Or can someone upload them for me, because I'm getting horrible torrent speeds.

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Post by kashigal » Jun 28th, '07, 01:33

About Ken's speech:
I don't really see it as a bad confession.

Mainly because I don't think Ken confessed his feelings in hope of getting a reply from Rei. Its not "Hey Rei I confessed to you, what are you going to do about this?"

Rather, than a guy to girl kind of confession, it is more like a guy who is genuinely confessing his feelings about a girl to a crowd of people. More like a narration of a story, a story of a guy who liked this girl nearly all his life.

True, at that point in time, the guests must have been pretty shocked, since when does a guy confess that on someone else's wedding?

But to me it was rather touching towards the end of Ken's speech. Because the fact that a guy who loves a girl this much, is letting her get married to another guy. Ken who had thought that he was the only one who could give Rei happiness, is letting another guy give her happiness. Ken who loves Rei as much as he does, must really really hope that Rei is happier with Tada.

And so this makes his blessings even more impactful. I don't think it would have been so impactful had the guests not known Ken's feelings for Rei.
I agree with what you are trying to say...It's a very nice speech in which he's just trying to confess the love he had for Rei. Even though, it's just a confession, it doesn't show that he's selfish.He's just trying to confess the love and in the end, the most important thing is for Rei to be happy and that is sufficient for Ken. =)

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Post by qsk » Jun 28th, '07, 02:01

Graymouse wrote:It took me some time to digest the ending but I am at peace now :D

Ken's speech woke everyone up from the dream land that they were in. Tada realized that he stepped on Ken's toes several times and didn't realized what he had done. Rei realized that all this time Ken was reaching out to her in Ken's special way but she was blinded by the "childhood friendship"

[I was in one of those type of situations before and it is not fun. I grew up with a girl since we were 4 years old. As we became teenagers and young adults I wanted our friendship to go deeper but she was afraid that it might destroy our friendship and what eventually happened after highshool we started drifting apart and now I haven't seen her for over 12 years.]

I will admit that I was expecting a lot more of an ending then what was given to us but after I thought about it. I can accept that ending. I wasn't expecting a kissing, hugging ending but I was expecting more of a concrete finish. At least see them together walking off into the sunset......(not necessarly going to get married) but becoming a couple.
graymouse, i feel the same as you, hope to see somewhat a concrete ending like what you have described... and not like now, where we dun even get to see both of them at the same screen for the ending...

And also wanted an ending showing what will happen to the other cast of the show... eri, tsuru, mikio, tada, and rei's parents etc etc.. .the things that might have happened in the wedding reception after rei run-away...

juz felt it ended so abruptly with no explanation.

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Post by qsk » Jun 28th, '07, 02:10

crescent wrote:But my favourite episode is still ep8 !!!
(waiting for the subbed version of ep11)
;)
yea!! me too!! my favorite is episode 8 also :D

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Post by doasan » Jun 28th, '07, 02:23

yeah me too....today i saw the epi 10!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I feel so bad, not guilty but a little bad ... poor kenzou...I hate him at first, because he was so selfish.... but I love the way Tada-san is...he's so decided....yaaa and he's so handsome tooo >.<!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love him since 1 rittoru no namida yayyyyyy but Pi's the best for me xD(?)

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Post by lunargen » Jun 28th, '07, 08:33

minna... ep 11 is out... and i am dead tired ehehehe.... :lol oyasumi....
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

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Post by sakurachan » Jun 28th, '07, 08:40

To lunargen san,

No word can express my thanks to you. If you happen to be in New York, I will treat you to a nice meal anywhere you ask. :-)

oyasumi nasai.

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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 09:42

Just one question to all. Isnt it Rei is already married to Tada-san or am I wrong?

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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 09:43

@lunargen

thanks you very much for the subs.

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Post by myunoyume » Jun 28th, '07, 09:49

spoz wrote:@lunargen

thanks you very much for the subs.
Thank you soooooooo much Lunargen for your hard work and prompt action on this issue..... :cheers:

:wub: :wub: :wub:

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Post by nanikore » Jun 28th, '07, 10:05

kashigal wrote:About Ken's speech:
I don't really see it as a bad confession.

Mainly because I don't think Ken confessed his feelings in hope of getting a reply from Rei. Its not "Hey Rei I confessed to you, what are you going to do about this?"

Rather, than a guy to girl kind of confession, it is more like a guy who is genuinely confessing his feelings about a girl to a crowd of people. More like a narration of a story, a story of a guy who liked this girl nearly all his life.

True, at that point in time, the guests must have been pretty shocked, since when does a guy confess that on someone else's wedding?

But to me it was rather touching towards the end of Ken's speech. Because the fact that a guy who loves a girl this much, is letting her get married to another guy. Ken who had thought that he was the only one who could give Rei happiness, is letting another guy give her happiness. Ken who loves Rei as much as he does, must really really hope that Rei is happier with Tada.

And so this makes his blessings even more impactful. I don't think it would have been so impactful had the guests not known Ken's feelings for Rei.
I agree with what you are trying to say...It's a very nice speech in which he's just trying to confess the love he had for Rei. Even though, it's just a confession, it doesn't show that he's selfish.He's just trying to confess the love and in the end, the most important thing is for Rei to be happy and that is sufficient for Ken. =)
i watched ep 11 live and i didnt understand much but i still got sad throughout the show. i probably wont be able to watch it subbed until i get back to america in like a month... unles someone knows where i can watch it streaming...
i totally agree with the comments on ken's speech even though i didnt understand most of it. and i had to give props to tada this time... hes a nice guy after all.

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Post by Mavurik » Jun 28th, '07, 11:08

ilovebakchoy wrote:I just watched the finale. I don't watch a lot of jdrama. I find them draggy at times but I am glad I found this one.
I don't know what people were thinking when they said that the speech was elegant and classy. I thought it was wrong. He abused his position and use someone else's wedding as a platform to declare his love. Yes, he salvaged it at the end when he tacked on "be happy or I won't forgive you", but still, if I were the groom and I was told that I am not the one who should be beside my wife through sickness and health, I would be god damn pissed off. C'mon the groom probably worked his butt off to pay for that wedding. tada trusted Ken to give a good speech but Ken pull something very selfish.

Even though I find it wrong for ken to pull something like this, I can forgive him. That was his last chance to voice his feelings. And ironically, he did not only say it to her. He said it in front of everyone. I always thought he was too shy and prideful to show his vulnerability. What he did was very gutsy.

I thought the ending was very fitting. I like it how there was no clear indication that they are together. Tada let Rei go to find the answer. He didn't say go to Ken and marry him. Rei was only going to find her answer, not hop ship. The ending showed the quest of two getting to know each other's true feelings. Success or not, at least they can be honest with each other now.

If we see that they ended up together, Rei would look like a whore. She was just in the arms of another man and if she was now in the arms of Ken, I don't think anybody would like her as a person. If such action took place, it would be a disrespect to Tada, Ken, and herself. Showing that she had given second thoughts to everything she was so determined to do gives us the hope that she would now consider Ken as a suitor. So a good ending for two relationships, Tada and Rei, Ken and Rei.
I disagree. From the get-go Rei used tada and tada let himself be used. He even said himself that he didn't want to know about her past. He was avoiding the unavoidable and he realized this at the end when he let her go. To be frank, it's a good thing Ken said something THEN and not 5 years later or something. Rei already let things get too far.

The fact is Tada and Rei hardly even knew each other yet they were getting married with the attitude "let's get to know each other after we get married". We all saw them say that. That's ridiculous.

After watching the entire series, it's hard to pretend they had a relationship or friendship on the same scale as Rei's relationship with Ken. If anything it might not be the best place to say something, but Ken was definitely justified. If he didn't become honest at some point everything afterwards would have been a lie for everyone involved. Rei would have gone on concealing her feelings or ignoring them and it might have become worse later on, and Ken would have had to face them with the pain in his heart all the time.

He was only being honest which is what a real friend does. Yea he could have lied and acted like they her and Tada were perfect together but everyone knows its bull. Even Rei's father didn't agree with the marriage.

I thought the speech was perfect. It was COMPLETELY in ken's character to do something so unexpected and full of impact like that. It was like the moment with the baseball uniforms and the buttons. He has a different way of doing things but damn, they're always so original and genuine.

As for the ending, I think Rei already knows the answer. It's quite clear. At the end of the episode it was just about is she going to give up again or actually take action and change things and she took action. It's safe to assume that they'll be getting together like they should have long ago.

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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 11:41

but isnt Rei already married to Tada? Because the ceremony is already finished or I am wrong.
Mavurik wrote:
ilovebakchoy wrote:I just watched the finale. I don't watch a lot of jdrama. I find them draggy at times but I am glad I found this one.
I don't know what people were thinking when they said that the speech was elegant and classy. I thought it was wrong. He abused his position and use someone else's wedding as a platform to declare his love. Yes, he salvaged it at the end when he tacked on "be happy or I won't forgive you", but still, if I were the groom and I was told that I am not the one who should be beside my wife through sickness and health, I would be god damn pissed off. C'mon the groom probably worked his butt off to pay for that wedding. tada trusted Ken to give a good speech but Ken pull something very selfish.

Even though I find it wrong for ken to pull something like this, I can forgive him. That was his last chance to voice his feelings. And ironically, he did not only say it to her. He said it in front of everyone. I always thought he was too shy and prideful to show his vulnerability. What he did was very gutsy.

I thought the ending was very fitting. I like it how there was no clear indication that they are together. Tada let Rei go to find the answer. He didn't say go to Ken and marry him. Rei was only going to find her answer, not hop ship. The ending showed the quest of two getting to know each other's true feelings. Success or not, at least they can be honest with each other now.

If we see that they ended up together, Rei would look like a whore. She was just in the arms of another man and if she was now in the arms of Ken, I don't think anybody would like her as a person. If such action took place, it would be a disrespect to Tada, Ken, and herself. Showing that she had given second thoughts to everything she was so determined to do gives us the hope that she would now consider Ken as a suitor. So a good ending for two relationships, Tada and Rei, Ken and Rei.
I disagree. From the get-go Rei used tada and tada let himself be used. He even said himself that he didn't want to know about her past. He was avoiding the unavoidable and he realized this at the end when he let her go. To be frank, it's a good thing Ken said something THEN and not 5 years later or something. Rei already let things get too far.

The fact is Tada and Rei hardly even knew each other yet they were getting married with the attitude "let's get to know each other after we get married". We all saw them say that. That's ridiculous.

After watching the entire series, it's hard to pretend they had a relationship or friendship on the same scale as Rei's relationship with Ken. If anything it might not be the best place to say something, but Ken was definitely justified. If he didn't become honest at some point everything afterwards would have been a lie for everyone involved. Rei would have gone on concealing her feelings or ignoring them and it might have become worse later on, and Ken would have had to face them with the pain in his heart all the time.

He was only being honest which is what a real friend does. Yea he could have lied and acted like they her and Tada were perfect together but everyone knows its bull. Even Rei's father didn't agree with the marriage.

I thought the speech was perfect. It was COMPLETELY in ken's character to do something so unexpected and full of impact like that. It was like the moment with the baseball uniforms and the buttons. He has a different way of doing things but damn, they're always so original and genuine.

As for the ending, I think Rei already knows the answer. It's quite clear. At the end of the episode it was just about is she going to give up again or actually take action and change things and she took action. It's safe to assume that they'll be getting together like they should have long ago.

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Post by belleza » Jun 28th, '07, 12:04

Thoughts on the ending:
At the end of episode 10, I was struck by the beauty of Ken and Rei running away. It's a well worn scene in movies, but here it was the most proactive, tonally shifting moment in the story. It was, where I felt, Proposal Daisakusen's "second" story really began. The main character became Rei, sepia-toned, glittering in all her jewelry and candy wrapped solutions.

In the beginning of episode 11, Rei was happy, so okay with Kenzou taking her away. Instead of letting herself question to his intentions to the point of shutting down, she smiled and enjoyed the moment with him. She began to reflect that, "wow, Kenzou had been a wonderful friend all these years. Thank you Ken." She was never more beautiful, more happy in the entire show than in the moment she trusted herself, her friendship with Ken.

Oddly, Rei wasn't the one who radiated. It was Ken, or rather Yamashita Tomahisa who glowed with a kind of chocolate bitter sweetness. Somewhere in Episode 11, it became an impassioned love letter to Kenzou, beautiful Kenzou, unable to say things at the right time, and yet with his mind and soul, he was always welcoming Rei into his life. At that place in the playground, before the slide shows, before their adolescence, Rei finally reflected that he was a kind and wonderful soul, and that at this end of their journey, underneath a beautiful beige sunset he was finally walking away.

It starts out as a pure love letter to Yamapi. The beautifully harmony of his skin and his hair, his uncomfortable, cranky pride, the hum of warmth dispersing into the sparky school concrete. He's so uncomfortable with his own skin that he preens like a stubborn, insensible boy. But he knows he's being silly, and he'll quietly laugh with you. He wanted to share his warmth with you. He wanted to enjoy the days with you. He then asks, in his incomplete but sincere way, if you have loved him so that you could have regretted your decisions. When Rei tried to be honest with her answer, she forgot she was still in love with him. She forgot he was still in love with her.

The wedding becomes her intervention, and in a way ProDai had quietly eluded through the show.

When Ken confesses his love for Rei, he is also, unknowingly, quietly refuting all of Rei's objections to him. He in expressing his heart, finally understands the meaning of their friendship, the true bond they had. Rei, like Ken in the beginning of the story, had saw the fate of their relationship as a product of individual decisions and unfortunate timing. But Ken, but beautiful and humbly collapsing Ken, retells their friendship as if they had always been together. With each other, for each other. That when it mattered, they were honest enough to turn each other around. That Rei and Ken should be, not merely because he loved her, but because it's the only thing that made sense.

Nobody in the room objects, not because the wedding here is a ceremony of love, but becase Episode 11 is the full staging of their intervention. And Rei is shaken to the core. More than anything, she cannot believe that he had the faith, and she didn't. 10 times, she had quietly rejected his friendship. 10 times, she had found ways to make it fail. 10 times, she had projected her own insecurity onto Kenzou, and now Ken was a mess and more beautiful to her that he's ever been.

The 10 slides, these newly minted gestures of Ken's stubborn resolve and stubborn affection, each testifies how mistaken Rei was. They damn her; they chastise her; they refute her. If the timing was the most inappropriate time, the constant temporal folding and kneading of the wedding ceremony had already worn out the taste and chew of the love vows mouthed at the beginning of the show. To the viewer in Episode 11, nothing about Rei and Tada's love could be made from the ceremony. Ken's act could only be a hostile, a tender, hostile act of unforgiving, self-immolating love. Love was pissed at Rei too, and prepared and then pushed Ken to begin the intervention. The slides finished it.

The time-slip narrative in breaking down the fiber of Rei and Tada's love, essentially restored the essence of Rei and Tada's relationship, which is as student and teacher. Perhaps no man at the altar could plausibly act like Tada; but then, by the Angel (or Fate's) doing, this was no longer a meeting of love. Tada was restored as her adviser and willing soundboard for her to make her big decisions. He pushed her to make the right one for her. And yes, this was also an act of love on his part, but it was also him following through what Fate intended.

In honoring their friendship and then saying goodbye, Kenzou has his closure and catharsis. But, here's the thing -- in truly admitting that he lost everything with her, she sees how beautiful he is and how ugly she has been in never putting his faith in him. And like in all successful interventions, she finally sees the door. She finally sees with clarity, that the miracle was the forgiving, suffering, constant abiding of their love. So she runs, she runs not just hopeful, but happy and liberated, into the light.

He gives himself up to open Rei's eyes. He had nothing left, but she finally saw everything. She understood what she misunderstood him all along.. In the ProDai finale, the cogs of fate obliged.

They end up in the middle of some unassuming street, without a working car, and the warm, soft focus air barely making a sound. It's the perfect place for Rei, liberated Rei, to come for him. All along, it was her who had let go, who had to come for him. This became the perfect first memory of their new relationship.

Episode 11 ends as a kind of dream. He's smiling because she's probably coming out of the brilliant light.

If the literal account of the finale amounts to a contradictory bloodbath of misplaced obligations and marital sabotage, I still enjoyed it. It still felt like a feverish wash of personal truths and private hope; it still felt like Yamapi and Masami finally allowed to entertain the chemistry of soulmatehood; it still felt like the most beautiful generous act of selfishness and personal humiliation that one man can do. What he did was so wrong and what he did made him look so beautiful.

In the end, everything logical and realistic and on-the-surface is washed away in that bright, dreamy light. It is how when everything was washed away, everything that remained was hope. Hope wears white. Rei wore hope all over her; and she had become Ken's hope. Episode 11 fades away leaving with us facing Ken and Ken's eyes. We've been looking at Rei through him all this time; it's only right we see his miracle, his hope through her eyes.
I cried like a little girl, a happy little girl. :D It's been a lot of fun joining up in this discussion. I hope to see you in other threads; maybe we'll agree even! :P

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Post by sakurachan » Jun 28th, '07, 12:21

spoz wrote:but isnt Rei already married to Tada? Because the ceremony is already finished or I am wrong.
Yes, the ceremony is finished. No, you're not wrong. So, does that mean it's over then?

Well, the yousei asked Rei this very question,
「今からでも、間に合うと思わないか?」
which translates
"Even as of now, don't you think it's not too late?"

She thought for a moment and gave the answer which we all know by now.

So, apparently, while in the eyes of many people it is over, somehow in Rei's eyes it was still not over yet. Look at those eyes again as she ran out. Those are eyes of confidence and certainty. So, perhaps she saw something beyond which we cannot see yet. Something the entire show has been trying to tell us... (hint: What was the yousei saying before he asked her that question?)

Alright, for those of you who are really hung up about this technical point, perhaps I can offer this little fact about asian marriages to ease your pain somewhat. It is traditionally accepted that a marriage is not completed until it is consummated. Now, I certainly doubt Tada and Rei had even reached second base yet, do you? (Too many baseball reference in this show.) :)

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 28th, '07, 12:38

haha, ending generated so much conversation trying to explain / rationlize it. this wasn't war and peace, this was a fluffy fun drama. total failure.
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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 12:57

yep i agree on you they havent yet signed the contact that they are married I think they are on their way when Tada stop and asked Rei.

Anyway its really a great drama it really remind me of my highschool days.
sakurachan wrote:
spoz wrote:but isnt Rei already married to Tada? Because the ceremony is already finished or I am wrong.
Yes, the ceremony is finished. No, you're not wrong. So, does that mean it's over then?

Well, the yousei asked Rei this very question,
「今からでも、間に合うと思わないか?」
which translates
"Even as of now, don't you think it's not too late?"

She thought for a moment and gave the answer which we all know by now.

So, apparently, while in the eyes of many people it is over, somehow in Rei's eyes it was still not over yet. Look at those eyes again as she ran out. Those are eyes of confidence and certainty. So, perhaps she saw something beyond which we cannot see yet. Something the entire show has been trying to tell us... (hint: What was the yousei saying before he asked her that question?)

Alright, for those of you who are really hung up about this technical point, perhaps I can offer this little fact about asian marriages to ease your pain somewhat. It is traditionally accepted that a marriage is not completed until it is consummated. Now, I certainly doubt Tada and Rei had even reached second base yet, do you? (Too many baseball reference in this show.) :)

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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 13:01

i cried too when the spotlight was shifted to Rei. When she eventually realized everything, Those where the great moments of episode 11
belleza wrote:Thoughts on the ending:
At the end of episode 10, I was struck by the beauty of Ken and Rei running away. It's a well worn scene in movies, but here it was the most proactive, tonally shifting moment in the story. It was, where I felt, Proposal Daisakusen's "second" story really began. The main character became Rei, sepia-toned, glittering in all her jewelry and candy wrapped solutions.

In the beginning of episode 11, Rei was happy, so okay with Kenzou taking her away. Instead of letting herself question to his intentions to the point of shutting down, she smiled and enjoyed the moment with him. She began to reflect that, "wow, Kenzou had been a wonderful friend all these years. Thank you Ken." She was never more beautiful, more happy in the entire show than in the moment she trusted herself, her friendship with Ken.

Oddly, Rei wasn't the one who radiated. It was Ken, or rather Yamashita Tomahisa who glowed with a kind of chocolate bitter sweetness. Somewhere in Episode 11, it became an impassioned love letter to Kenzou, beautiful Kenzou, unable to say things at the right time, and yet with his mind and soul, he was always welcoming Rei into his life. At that place in the playground, before the slide shows, before their adolescence, Rei finally reflected that he was a kind and wonderful soul, and that at this end of their journey, underneath a beautiful beige sunset he was finally walking away.

It starts out as a pure love letter to Yamapi. The beautifully harmony of his skin and his hair, his uncomfortable, cranky pride, the hum of warmth dispersing into the sparky school concrete. He's so uncomfortable with his own skin that he preens like a stubborn, insensible boy. But he knows he's being silly, and he'll quietly laugh with you. He wanted to share his warmth with you. He wanted to enjoy the days with you. He then asks, in his incomplete but sincere way, if you have loved him so that you could have regretted your decisions. When Rei tried to be honest with her answer, she forgot she was still in love with him. She forgot he was still in love with her.

The wedding becomes her intervention, and in a way ProDai had quietly eluded through the show.

When Ken confesses his love for Rei, he is also, unknowingly, quietly refuting all of Rei's objections to him. He in expressing his heart, finally understands the meaning of their friendship, the true bond they had. Rei, like Ken in the beginning of the story, had saw the fate of their relationship as a product of individual decisions and unfortunate timing. But Ken, but beautiful and humbly collapsing Ken, retells their friendship as if they had always been together. With each other, for each other. That when it mattered, they were honest enough to turn each other around. That Rei and Ken should be, not merely because he loved her, but because it's the only thing that made sense.

Nobody in the room objects, not because the wedding here is a ceremony of love, but becase Episode 11 is the full staging of their intervention. And Rei is shaken to the core. More than anything, she cannot believe that he had the faith, and she didn't. 10 times, she had quietly rejected his friendship. 10 times, she had found ways to make it fail. 10 times, she had projected her own insecurity onto Kenzou, and now Ken was a mess and more beautiful to her that he's ever been.

The 10 slides, these newly minted gestures of Ken's stubborn resolve and stubborn affection, each testifies how mistaken Rei was. They damn her; they chastise her; they refute her. If the timing was the most inappropriate time, the constant temporal folding and kneading of the wedding ceremony had already worn out the taste and chew of the love vows mouthed at the beginning of the show. To the viewer in Episode 11, nothing about Rei and Tada's love could be made from the ceremony. Ken's act could only be a hostile, a tender, hostile act of unforgiving, self-immolating love. Love was pissed at Rei too, and prepared and then pushed Ken to begin the intervention. The slides finished it.

The time-slip narrative in breaking down the fiber of Rei and Tada's love, essentially restored the essence of Rei and Tada's relationship, which is as student and teacher. Perhaps no man at the altar could plausibly act like Tada; but then, by the Angel (or Fate's) doing, this was no longer a meeting of love. Tada was restored as her adviser and willing soundboard for her to make her big decisions. He pushed her to make the right one for her. And yes, this was also an act of love on his part, but it was also him following through what Fate intended.

In honoring their friendship and then saying goodbye, Kenzou has his closure and catharsis. But, here's the thing -- in truly admitting that he lost everything with her, she sees how beautiful he is and how ugly she has been in never putting his faith in him. And like in all successful interventions, she finally sees the door. She finally sees with clarity, that the miracle was the forgiving, suffering, constant abiding of their love. So she runs, she runs not just hopeful, but happy and liberated, into the light.

He gives himself up to open Rei's eyes. He had nothing left, but she finally saw everything. She understood what she misunderstood him all along.. In the ProDai finale, the cogs of fate obliged.

They end up in the middle of some unassuming street, without a working car, and the warm, soft focus air barely making a sound. It's the perfect place for Rei, liberated Rei, to come for him. All along, it was her who had let go, who had to come for him. This became the perfect first memory of their new relationship.

Episode 11 ends as a kind of dream. He's smiling because she's probably coming out of the brilliant light.

If the literal account of the finale amounts to a contradictory bloodbath of misplaced obligations and marital sabotage, I still enjoyed it. It still felt like a feverish wash of personal truths and private hope; it still felt like Yamapi and Masami finally allowed to entertain the chemistry of soulmatehood; it still felt like the most beautiful generous act of selfishness and personal humiliation that one man can do. What he did was so wrong and what he did made him look so beautiful.

In the end, everything logical and realistic and on-the-surface is washed away in that bright, dreamy light. It is how when everything was washed away, everything that remained was hope. Hope wears white. Rei wore hope all over her; and she had become Ken's hope. Episode 11 fades away leaving with us facing Ken and Ken's eyes. We've been looking at Rei through him all this time; it's only right we see his miracle, his hope through her eyes.
I cried like a little girl, a happy little girl. :D It's been a lot of fun joining up in this discussion. I hope to see you in other threads; maybe we'll agree even! :P

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Post by sakurachan » Jun 28th, '07, 13:22

spoz wrote:i cried too when the spotlight was shifted to Rei. When she eventually realized everything, Those where the great moments of episode 11
I agree with you. Rei's inner-monologue was to me a the biggest surprise in the episode. It was also the most touching part of the episode to me too.

I tip my hat to Nagasawa Masami for her acting here. For her to pull off that scene, as a character who was being overwhelmed by sudden bubbling of 14 years of internal emotions but yet still maintained the proper composure on the outside, so both passionate yet composed; that was simply awesome.

Paling in comparison, Yamashita's crying didn't seem as natural or genuine. *ducking for covers from YamaPi's hordes of fans* :P

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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 13:48

I also agree in you here. Nagasawa Masami showed great acting here all she really expressed the emotion of her character. Yamashita Tomohisa samewhat lacks on the dramatic scene though has done great on other aspecs.

As a whole a really really like this drama.
sakurachan wrote:
spoz wrote:i cried too when the spotlight was shifted to Rei. When she eventually realized everything, Those where the great moments of episode 11
I agree with you. Rei's inner-monologue was to me a the biggest surprise in the episode. It was also the most touching part of the episode to me too.

I tip my hat to Nagasawa Masami for her acting here. For her to pull off that scene, as a character who was being overwhelmed by sudden bubbling of 14 years of internal emotions but yet still maintained the proper composure on the outside, so both passionate yet composed; that was simply awesome.

Paling in comparison, Yamashita's crying didn't seem as natural or genuine. *ducking for covers from YamaPi's hordes of fans* :P

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Post by Hikaru-kun » Jun 28th, '07, 13:59

Unhappy... :cussing:
I'm very very very sad :cry: ...This drama ends in a bad way...It's impossible..two lovers... Without a kiss... !!I'm so depress for this!!There are no emotions

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Post by chickenruns » Jun 28th, '07, 15:55

i've just finished watching the finale. it was good the ending, we all understand what will happen up next, no need to make a crying-hugging-kissing scene. and i feel so relieved that Tada would let Rei go, he's a good guy ! so what do you guys ask for more ? isn't it a fairy tale with happy ending ?

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 28th, '07, 16:03

chickenruns wrote:i've just finished watching the finale. it was good the ending, we all understand what will happen up next, no need to make a crying-hugging-kissing scene. and i feel so relieved that Tada would let Rei go, he's a good guy ! so what do you guys ask for more ? isn't it a fairy tale with happy ending ?
it didn't end, it said HERES THE SITUATION, go write fan fiction and make 100 assumptions on what actually happened. Considering they had 11 freaking hours to make a story, you can't use 5 minutes to wrap things up VISUALLY?
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Post by ninjabunny » Jun 28th, '07, 16:59

Mavurik wrote:
I disagree. From the get-go Rei used tada and tada let himself be used. He even said himself that he didn't want to know about her past. He was avoiding the unavoidable and he realized this at the end when he let her go. To be frank, it's a good thing Ken said something THEN and not 5 years later or something. Rei already let things get too far.

The fact is Tada and Rei hardly even knew each other yet they were getting married with the attitude "let's get to know each other after we get married". We all saw them say that. That's ridiculous.

After watching the entire series, it's hard to pretend they had a relationship or friendship on the same scale as Rei's relationship with Ken. If anything it might not be the best place to say something, but Ken was definitely justified. If he didn't become honest at some point everything afterwards would have been a lie for everyone involved. Rei would have gone on concealing her feelings or ignoring them and it might have become worse later on, and Ken would have had to face them with the pain in his heart all the time.

He was only being honest which is what a real friend does. Yea he could have lied and acted like they her and Tada were perfect together but everyone knows its bull. Even Rei's father didn't agree with the marriage.

I thought the speech was perfect. It was COMPLETELY in ken's character to do something so unexpected and full of impact like that. It was like the moment with the baseball uniforms and the buttons. He has a different way of doing things but damn, they're always so original and genuine.

As for the ending, I think Rei already knows the answer. It's quite clear. At the end of the episode it was just about is she going to give up again or actually take action and change things and she took action. It's safe to assume that they'll be getting together like they should have long ago.
I thought his whole speech was about giving it a last chance to see if he could reach out to Rei. Remember, when Ken walked into that ceremony after the time slip, the fairy said something like you need to knock on the door of miracles through the present and not the past. So at least, from my understanding, Ken walked into there still with a fighting spirit, with a glimmer of hope, that he could win her back. That's what I thought his mentality was at that moment of the speech.

His last fight was about being a little bit more aggressive because Rei was surely thickheaded and couldn't get the message. So Ken had to say it outright, in plain Japanese to make her understand. I am in support of him doing that because that was his last chance. But it doesn't change that fact that he hijack someone else's wedding. Let's forget about all the characters at the moment. If a best friend was asked to speak at a wedding and then use his time to declare his feelings for the bride in front the groom, friends and family. What do you think of that person?

And I don't know what people are saying that the speech wasn't to get Rei back? Really? you think so? So all the fights that he fought to pry Rei away from Tada was just for kicks? No. The speech was Ken's last stance and everything he did carry a bit of selfishness to it (Remember how he tried to confess before Tada did in the firecracker episode?).

The point was he needed to be bit more aggressive and selfish in order to convey his feelings for her or else she would never understand. She would be a happy (but not satisfied) wife of someone who was more straightforward. Unselfishness is bearing the pain yourself and not let anyone get hurt. From episode 1, Tada was doomed to get hurt because of Ken.

Was Ken's action justified? Absolutely. Like everyone said, Rei really loved Ken and not Tada. Those two dating and getting marry was wrong from the beginning. However, that doesn't change the fact that ken's act was selfish in regards to taking advantage of the power he had at that moment when giving the speech. Ken was a flawed character. He needed to do what he had to in order to get his girl back. Did that entail some acts of selfishness? Yes. Do I support him? Yes.

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Post by ap0stat3 » Jun 28th, '07, 17:03

nikochanr3 wrote:
chickenruns wrote:i've just finished watching the finale. it was good the ending, we all understand what will happen up next, no need to make a crying-hugging-kissing scene. and i feel so relieved that Tada would let Rei go, he's a good guy ! so what do you guys ask for more ? isn't it a fairy tale with happy ending ?
it didn't end, it said HERES THE SITUATION, go write fan fiction and make 100 assumptions on what actually happened. Considering they had 11 freaking hours to make a story, you can't use 5 minutes to wrap things up VISUALLY?
I TOTALLY agree with nikochanr3, the ending was left hanging for fan fic/assumption. For all we know @ the end he might have been hearing voices after pushing that car under the heat of the sun...:unsure:.. it would have been nice if we see them together visually at the end as nikochanr3 stated, they don't even have to kiss or hug just together.

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Post by hardy har har » Jun 28th, '07, 17:33

Um I don't know why many people are saying the ending was unclear.. IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR CUT FROM WHAT I SAW. It did end but they left out a scene.. They better not come out with some stupid special now..
Last edited by hardy har har on Jun 28th, '07, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by nikochanr3 » Jun 28th, '07, 17:36

hardy har har wrote:Um I don't know why many people are saying the ending was unclear.. IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR CUT FROM WHAT I SAW.
it wasnt unclear. what people are saying is "after the ending, the following 9 things happened, or while rei made the speech, this is the 300 things she was thinking". its all extrapolated, it wasnt shown. tv is a visual medium, things are expected to happen ON SCREEN
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Post by lRememberMel » Jun 28th, '07, 17:54

like the ending :) its great actually.. they belong to be together :)
its all extrapolated, it wasnt shown. tv is a visual medium, things are expected to happen ON SCREEN


what u meant by it wasnt shown? you mean the ending when rei called kenzo?? do you want to know exactly what happen after that? huehue go ask jonny's :P but from that story tells that they will be together.. :wub:
this story shows that dont get married with someone you not really love to.. :P , go get the one that you really love most.. if HE/SHE love you as well.. if he/she doesnt love you, then go get someone else but dont simply get married, unless you getting older.. :cry: :P
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Image Image
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my heart aches..

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Post by chickenruns » Jun 28th, '07, 17:56

my dear nikochanr3, you might be not satisfied with the ending but it was decided to end like this 8) . and we all see Ken and Rei together along the drama so please give me a break. the together scene really fits HYD but for ProDai it would be odd to have one.

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Post by belleza » Jun 28th, '07, 19:22

I tip my hat to Nagasawa Masami for her acting here. For her to pull off that scene, as a character who was being overwhelmed by sudden bubbling of 14 years of internal emotions but yet still maintained the proper composure on the outside, so both passionate yet composed; that was simply awesome.
Her emotional responses during the speech were really well done. As was Fujiki's. Actually Fujiki gave one helluva look -- shock, embarassment, anger -- to Ken when he was delivering the speech. Alas, it was, erm, the only real bit of acting he was allowed to do in the whole show. sigh

Masami's performance was especially good because, for the most part, her character was trying to process, unravel her own beliefs through the 2nd half of the show. Ken's intervention was aggressive, but the end of Episode 10 (and even Episode 9) had already tipped off that she didn't really mind when Kenzou acts out. Rei doesn't get too angry at anything he does with her. If anything, Ken's random acts of bravery/stupidity always made deliberate, close-to-the-vest Rei really curious about what's going in his head. That was part of her attraction toward him, and Masami beautifully reflected that sentiment.

She wasn't offended by his action; she was deeply, deeply saddened that she had caused him this much pain. It was the first time in the show she took herself out of her self-absorption and saw Ken's side in it. That's a unique reaction to your own wedding, but Masami is really good at showing conflicts between head and heart.
Paling in comparison, Yamashita's crying didn't seem as natural or genuine
Another thing was that, with Episode 11, basically you got gender reversal of the "Some Kind of Wonderful" scenario. Rei got to play the "guy" and Ken the ever suffering female friend. And, in that regard -- and I'm surprising myself in saying this -- Yamapi delivered the most affecting performance of the episode. Yamapi crying or looking utterly defeated is so alien to his public image (and probably his real personality.)

He should go out kicking and screaming like a caged dog. But, here, he truly feels like he has nothing left. His last chance was also the beginning of him making peace with his past; in his speech, he actually beat himself up rather badly for wasting all his chances. If Yamapi is as alpha male as a JE idol can reasonably be, here he was giving a display of passive longing and suffering. And he was unusually pretty this episode.

He's not a natural but he doesn't need to be here. He's not in a natural situation at all, and he's not used to giving up. Ken finds himself at the end in a very strange, disconnected place, and Rei has to come for him. And Yamapi conveyed that sense of emotional exhaustion, and Masami conveyed Rei's transformation and resolve. I felt it was well done.

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Post by Mavurik » Jun 28th, '07, 19:22

ninjabunny wrote:
Mavurik wrote:
I thought his whole speech was about giving it a last chance to see if he could reach out to Rei. Remember, when Ken walked into that ceremony after the time slip, the fairy said something like you need to knock on the door of miracles through the present and not the past. So at least, from my understanding, Ken walked into there still with a fighting spirit, with a glimmer of hope, that he could win her back. That's what I thought his mentality was at that moment of the speech.

His last fight was about being a little bit more aggressive because Rei was surely thickheaded and couldn't get the message. So Ken had to say it outright, in plain Japanese to make her understand. I am in support of him doing that because that was his last chance. But it doesn't change that fact that he hijack someone else's wedding. Let's forget about all the characters at the moment. If a best friend was asked to speak at a wedding and then use his time to declare his feelings for the bride in front the groom, friends and family. What do you think of that person?

And I don't know what people are saying that the speech wasn't to get Rei back? Really? you think so? So all the fights that he fought to pry Rei away from Tada was just for kicks? No. The speech was Ken's last stance and everything he did carry a bit of selfishness to it (Remember how he tried to confess before Tada did in the firecracker episode?).

The point was he needed to be bit more aggressive and selfish in order to convey his feelings for her or else she would never understand. She would be a happy (but not satisfied) wife of someone who was more straightforward. Unselfishness is bearing the pain yourself and not let anyone get hurt. From episode 1, Tada was doomed to get hurt because of Ken.

Was Ken's action justified? Absolutely. Like everyone said, Rei really loved Ken and not Tada. Those two dating and getting marry was wrong from the beginning. However, that doesn't change the fact that ken's act was selfish in regards to taking advantage of the power he had at that moment when giving the speech. Ken was a flawed character. He needed to do what he had to in order to get his girl back. Did that entail some acts of selfishness? Yes. Do I support him? Yes.
If you pay attention to the words being used Ken clearly said that he was resolved and that he was going to move on even though it was painful for him to do so. I thought that was clear from his discussion with the fairy.

Plus, if he was really trying to get her back he wouldn't have said that he wanted her to find happiness with Tada. It would have been a lot more of a selfish speech. But in the end, he ended up thinking of what would be best for her and not for him.

It was just honesty coming out and he felt the need to express it. It took him all of his energy and all those times going back into the past to gather enough strength to tell Rei everything in the end. Yea, he sabotaged the wedding but oh well, if you're really his friend and you know how he feels (even if you want to hide it) don't ask him to speak then. What do you expect? He had felt so much regret about everything and went back to the past to try and change it and still she was marrying Tada. It wasn't right but it wasn't selfish at all. It was FOR rei. The least he could do after all those years when they never confessed their true feelings was finally be honest with her and let her know that he recognized her true qualities as a friend. It was just like her father said. He wanted somebody to recognize the things that nobody noticed about Rei, and Ken was letting her and everyone know that as her friend all those years he finally did. That's why it ends with everyone clapping and not people going wtf are you doing blah blah

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Post by belleza » Jun 28th, '07, 19:26

I agree with Mavurick's interpretation of the speech. Ken at that point needed release, and really Rei had become the main hero of Episode 11. By the end of Episode 10, the story had set quietly up things so that the roles would be reversed. Rei became the "guy" in the story, and Ken the suffering object of her affection.

BTW, Lunargen thank you for the subtitles. Ken's speech read beautifully.

spoz
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Post by spoz » Jun 28th, '07, 21:01

A somewhat long interpretation of the ending...
I really love Ken's character because he realized not to be affected by the past no more and face everything in the future. Though somewhat bleak he still have a fighting chance in the past in episode 11 if he really want to but he wants to face that fact in the present I really really admire that from his character.

His speech speaks what he truly feel for the first time. And that really really hit the weak spot of Rei and even Tada. Tada have somewhat an idea that they both Rei and Ken have a feeling for each other. And because Rei wasnt able to say what she felt for Ken she got depressed and eventually give up and Tada has become his substitute in Filipino language "Panakip sa butas". Rei has seen in Tada what she really whats to see in Ken and what attracted her to him.

When Ken have given his speech he have poured down all his feeling for her. This is really what she wants to face the present and for him to have no more regret he have to do this for himself. But eventually Rei realized what Ken has done and realized she has not done everything she could and realized her regrets and Tada now has realized that. He feels sorry for Rei and he realized that he has been really all along a substitute for Ken. Realizing that Rei's feeling for her is that he has given Rei his push to go on to the one you truly love.

Rei realized what she has been doing all along and those feeling that she have really belong to Ken. It was her turn to say what he truly felt for Ken, it was her turn to really really show what her feeling for him. She lose hope again for not being able to reach Ken but eventually got a push from the Fairy. She realized the she havent done everything and eventually the "Door of miracle" has opened for both of them.

The drama give's a message that we have to be true to our feeling so we will have no regrets.

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ninjabunny
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Post by ninjabunny » Jun 28th, '07, 21:05

Mavurik wrote:
If you pay attention to the words being used Ken clearly said that he was resolved and that he was going to move on even though it was painful for him to do so. I thought that was clear from his discussion with the fairy.
Maybe I need to read the english sub. because i got a different feeling from the chinese sub.
Mavurik wrote:
Plus, if he was really trying to get her back he wouldn't have said that he wanted her to find happiness with Tada. It would have been a lot more of a selfish speech. But in the end, he ended up thinking of what would be best for her and not for him.
If he truely wanted to congratulate them, he would have sticked with the original speech and not add anything to it. I think the intention of his confession/speech was to (i am paraphrasing from another poster) wake everyone up from this fairy tale wedding. Make everyone see that the bride and the groom are not for each other. Even Rei said Ken never gives up, even 'til the end.
Mavurik wrote:
It was just honesty coming out and he felt the need to express it. It took him all of his energy and all those times going back into the past to gather enough strength to tell Rei everything in the end.
Agree
Mavurik wrote:
Yea, he sabotaged the wedding but oh well, if you're really his friend and you know how he feels (even if you want to hide it) don't ask him to speak then. What do you expect?
Wait so you think Rei knew Ken would say something like that and that's why she asked him to speak. As if it was her last chance to get Ken to confess?

Mavurik wrote:
It wasn't right but it wasn't selfish at all. It was FOR rei. The least he could do after all those years when they never confessed their true feelings was finally be honest with her and let her know that he recognized her true qualities as a friend. It was just like her father said. He wanted somebody to recognize the things that nobody noticed about Rei, and Ken was letting her and everyone know that as her friend all those years he finally did.
It was absolutely for Rei because she doesn't love Tada like she loves Ken. Again, my definition of selfishness in this case is bearing the pain yourself and not let anyone get hurt. He made a speech in front of everyone, that only because of his own stupidity, he didn't get the girl. As if the reason the groom and the bride are marrying is because of some cosmic glitch. Tada is a wonderful guy. Why not make a speech about him and say how happy Rei would be with him. Instead, we hear about Ken's regrets.

His speech really rock the boat. Why would you said something like that in someone else's ceremony? If he really had resolved the fact that Rei is marrying Tada, he shouldn't have impose a rocky start for the new couple. The idea was, he was still hoping that Rei could finally understand him.

Again, I support Ken. I just see the act of saying something like that to be unfair to the groom. But ken needed to do what he needed to do because we all know Rei doesn't love Tada. And if Ken needs to be a bit selfish and Tada needs to get hurt, so be it.
Mavurik wrote:
That's why it ends with everyone clapping and not people going wtf are you doing blah blah
I think someone said that it was a very powerful speech because it came from someone who really loves her. I agree with that. I only wish a man would be sensitive enough to pick up every thing about me, from the greatest strengths to the worst shortcomings. He had made his last stance. He told her his feelings as plain as it could be. Now, if she still wants to marry Tada after that speech, then he would support her always. That was what the last part was about. He had finished talking about his regrets and then asked the audience to bear with him a little bit more. He turned to them and said "be happy". He had given it his all, and if it didn't work. Then might as well wish your best friend happiness.

And something else that I notice:
At the end, when she caught up to him, he had a smile on his face. Like a satisfactory smile that he finally did accomplished his mission. it wasn't a surprise smile, like "oh my god, I told you to be happy with tada. why are you here?". No. it was a smile that he knew he had done it, that all his effort was not in vain. From that smile and from the speech, I knew that he was fighting for her until the very end.

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Post by moderagio » Jun 28th, '07, 21:07

Wow, that's an ending which leads to a lot of brain storming...

About the confession
well, there's a lot of interpretation. i actually thinks it's more of an accomplishment than anything else., Ken trying to go beyond his weaknesses and have some confidence in himself. Like he said, changing the past had limits since he kept being himself. So he's trying to change himself to change his future, right ?
About what Mavurik and Ninjabunny said, i think there's a little of both. I mean you can't expect him to go confess without having hope after all this trips in the past... His goal actually remains to have Rei by his side ! But there's the "You're marrying someone else and i hope you're making a good choice cause one life ruined is enough" so you can't deny that this hope is tainted by some kind of realism. He is too late and he knows it. Whatever the way you see it, i think you can't deny the other way.
Was this confession something appropriate ? I don't think so. Not the first "wedding confession" i see in a Jdrama (Star no koi come in my mind). Even if we let aside the fact that a marriage is a serious matter, and that you'll gonna show actually no respect for the family, friends, guests and the groom, the fact is someone will be hurt and badly... in his pride and his heart. There's no mistake that Tada loves his "future wife" and that's no happy ending for him. (not that Rei hasn't actually some responsibilities) And that's one of the sickest way to have a broken heart i could think of. I mean, to make it less horrible, the writers have to make the groom being extremely nice, let the girl go and give up. (wouldn't you feel bad for him if he was all weepy at the end after Rei's gone ?)
But to be honest, i don't think love is about doing the right thing. Ken isn't doing the right thing but he actually can't help it.

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chokubi
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Post by chokubi » Jun 28th, '07, 21:20

Really enjoyed this series.
Concept (and execution) of the show is definitely something I've never seen before in a J-drama.
The acting is a lil rigid, but there were certain character/s (and their acting) that made me laugh throughout.
Overall a good drama that has some "rewatchability".

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belleza
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Post by belleza » Jun 28th, '07, 21:33

Concept (and execution) of the show is definitely something I've never seen before in a J-drama.
Yeah, at some point, I think you had to kinda go with the show on its terms. Maybe time loops didn't all make sense. Maybe Ken's reticence seemed overtly passive. Maybe Rei is kinda selfish a b!tch. Maybe we never got a satisfying conclusion with the marathon runner. But the show just kinda pulled along with us away from any pretense at objectivity straight and deep into Ken's emotional experience. The ending itself was a reflection of that too.
I just see the act of saying something like that to be unfair to the groom.
Normally I would agree, though I think after watching many Korean melodramas, I've gotten used to the groom being the most unlucky guy of all. :D

I think, the way ProDai is written, the emotional meaning of the wedding, or at least our perception of it, had sufficiently been changed. The effect of all that timeslipping tore out whatever faith we could invest in Rei and Tada's "forever and ever" pacts. Not whether their love was a sham or not a shame, but that Rei had come about the whole thing all wrong. She had come about her whole love life all wrong.

The Soul Patch Fairy tweaked the wedding so that it would be an intervention , and he had prepared Ken for it all along without telling him his end goal. Ken spoke for Rei; but the Soul Patch Fairy had also pushed Ken for Rei too. It was a hostile act to prevent her from making the biggest mistake of her life. Had he tried earlier, maybe she still couldn't see it until the day of her wedding. When her decision would have real finality.
I agree with that. I only wish a man would be sensitive enough to pick up every thing about me, from the greatest strengths to the worst shortcomings.
If you haven't yet, try out the movie Ima Ai ni Yukimasu. It's a meditation on exactly that. Both ProDai and Ima are -- really, really roughly speaking -- about 2nd chances and unsaid things and secrets, but Ima comes from a very, very different sensibility about love.

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japysia
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Post by japysia » Jun 28th, '07, 23:43

belleza wrote:If you haven't yet, try out the movie Ima Ai ni Yukimasu. It's a meditation on exactly that. Both ProDai and Ima are -- really, really roughly speaking -- about 2nd chances and unsaid things and secrets, but Ima comes from a very, very different sensibility about love.
Yes,Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu is the best jmovie i've ever seen. A romantically sad movie with a very unexpected twist.:thumright:
:thumleft: ~ サトラレ ~ 心の声がサトラレる。。。 :thumright:

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