[Discussion] Proposal Daisakusen (Operation Love)

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
User avatar
epi
Posts: 87
Joined: Nov 15th, '06, 16:23
Location: here

Post by epi » Jun 21st, '07, 17:19

The discussion is so lively here ... haha. I haven't watched the series yet but I am actually just waiting until all the subbed episodes are out before I watch them cause I know ... I just know that I can finish all these episodes in one go ... And I don't want to be pulling my hair for the next episode ...

Anyway I just wanted to add my thought to the discussion regarding Ken-Rei relationship. I honestly hope for a happy ending but I understand too why people feel frustrated by Rei and also by Ken's failure to confess his feeling. If we are talking real life here the fact that they're childhood friends may be a factor in the failure of them becoming a great couple ...

Most childhood friends that I know they go through a lot of stuff together. They can become as close as siblings ... they know each other's fears, hopes, dreams, and desires. They know each other's picture of the perfect significant others ... which can lead to higher expectations. Maybe Rei is expecting something more from Ken just because she feels that he should've known her better than everybody else. On the other hand Ken feels that Rei should've been able to feel his feeling for her ... I mean they've been together forever so she should've known the kind of person he is. So the fact that both sides have higher expectations of each other may somehow skew their perceptions of others' feelings.

So ... some people may disagree but this is what I think when I see these two. At times it can be so painful. The people around them will be able to tell right away that they're both in love with each other but when you're the persons whose feelings are getting tangled in then things may not seem too clear to you ...

master
Posts: 4
Joined: May 30th, '07, 20:36

Post by master » Jun 21st, '07, 17:44

sakurachan wrote:
Graymouse wrote:@joe Have you watch the "dark episodes" yet? Its Friday already here in Japan and you know what that means.....3 more days until Tada gets dumped and Ken become the winner just like he predicted waaay back in episode 3!
I don't know. It's very hard for me to see how Rei can, in one episode, turns around completely and go with Ken. I don't see what Ken can do to change her stand anyway.

Look. If there is anything Ken can still do, something that Rei is still waiting for, then she would've been still waiting for Ken. However, this is not the case.

Back in episode 6, she already gave that up. She moved on. And she is the kind of person who stays her course, as commented by Eri a few times in the past. It would be very much out of her character to go breakup with Tada at their wedding and runs off with Ken.

The writers will need some very drastic event to take place, like Ken getting run over by a bus chasing after Rei or something, in order to change her course. Anything less would make the story rushed and inconsistent.
What you say seems logical to me, but I'm not really convinced that the decisive action will come from Ken in the last episode;
maybe Tada sensei will ask Rei what feelings she has toward Ken, and there will be a clash between tada and rei

User avatar
myunoyume
Posts: 123
Joined: Feb 7th, '07, 15:59
Location: Furansu
Contact:

Post by myunoyume » Jun 21st, '07, 19:02

I dunno if you already have seen this, or may be already added on this thread, but I thought it may be interesting :

A vid showing Yamapi's birthday celebration on set of Prodai...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRiE512NRic

fastat3m
Posts: 49
Joined: Mar 7th, '06, 07:16
Location: Los Angeles

Post by fastat3m » Jun 21st, '07, 19:33

master wrote:
sakurachan wrote:
Graymouse wrote:@joe Have you watch the "dark episodes" yet? Its Friday already here in Japan and you know what that means.....3 more days until Tada gets dumped and Ken become the winner just like he predicted waaay back in episode 3!
I don't know. It's very hard for me to see how Rei can, in one episode, turns around completely and go with Ken. I don't see what Ken can do to change her stand anyway.

Look. If there is anything Ken can still do, something that Rei is still waiting for, then she would've been still waiting for Ken. However, this is not the case.

Back in episode 6, she already gave that up. She moved on. And she is the kind of person who stays her course, as commented by Eri a few times in the past. It would be very much out of her character to go breakup with Tada at their wedding and runs off with Ken.

The writers will need some very drastic event to take place, like Ken getting run over by a bus chasing after Rei or something, in order to change her course. Anything less would make the story rushed and inconsistent.
What you say seems logical to me, but I'm not really convinced that the decisive action will come from Ken in the last episode;
maybe Tada sensei will ask Rei what feelings she has toward Ken, and there will be a clash between tada and rei
When Rei sees the engagement ring that Ken had, bought, i consider that a significant event. It is one thing to hear someone say marry me, or say anything, but seeing a ring, shows how serious they are. I feel she is kind of conflicted with her heart telling her that Ken is the one but her brain saying to go the safe route with Tada. I think when she sees the ring, she will be overcome with emotion and her heart will win out. Some of the stuff Ken said earlier, she probably couldn't tell how serious he really was, especially because they were short moments, and when he time slipped back to the future, he didn't continue pursuing Rei. However, a ring shows how serious he really is, because 99% of people don't buy a ring without being completely serious.

User avatar
myunoyume
Posts: 123
Joined: Feb 7th, '07, 15:59
Location: Furansu
Contact:

Post by myunoyume » Jun 21st, '07, 20:28

When Rei sees the engagement ring that Ken had, bought, i consider that a significant event. It is one thing to hear someone say marry me, or say anything, but seeing a ring, shows how serious they are. I feel she is kind of conflicted with her heart telling her that Ken is the one but her brain saying to go the safe route with Tada. I think when she sees the ring, she will be overcome with emotion and her heart will win out. Some of the stuff Ken said earlier, she probably couldn't tell how serious he really was, especially because they were short moments, and when he time slipped back to the future, he didn't continue pursuing Rei. However, a ring shows how serious he really is, because 99% of people don't buy a ring without being completely serious.
[/quote]

Clever man ! :idea:

dragonpoetry
Posts: 26
Joined: Mar 10th, '07, 02:59

Post by dragonpoetry » Jun 21st, '07, 21:23

Graymouse wrote:@JOE.
you know when Ken noticed the scar on Rei's arm as she was being a social butterfly and when she walked out of the building and Ken was standing there with that tray. I started yelling at the tv saying "go get your girl Ken" What the hell are you waiting for" and when Ken put that tray down and ran out and grabed Rei by the arm and they ran off.. I was cheering! As they were running did you notice the look that Rei gave Ken? Finally some justice will be served!
I got so desperate that I watched ep 10 without the subs. I can't understand more than 10 words of Japanese. But the inflections and acting in this show are done so well that the meaning really came across.

Notice that she still refers to Tada-san as Tada-san instead of Tetsuo but refers to Ken with his first name instead of Iwaze-san or Iwaze-chan? Does that mean anything? Is it common to refer to the guy that you are about to marry and get intimate with in such a formal fashion? It just seems really awkward and stilted to me.
I'm dying to find out what Tada-san said to Rei at the church and the architectural design preview. Was that Tada-san's graduation presentation or just a big project?

And the other thing that I'm dying to know, is the translation of the conversation with Rei's mother that Ken had after they videoed the parents talking about the couple's wedding. "Rei. Tada-san. (silence)" heh. It doesn't need the translation to understand that Rei's father had trouble finding something to say and then when he started again, I think that he talked about Rei's childhood and hopes that Tada-san would make her happy. I don't know. But I'm dying to find out what Rei's mother said to Ken when they were looking through the photo album. Probably something like, "We always thought that you would be the one. Funny how life turns out. We love you too, Ken. You'll always be a part of our family." That's what it looked like.

And yes, Greymouse, at the point when Ken is watching Rei at the party when she walks out, I was in agony saying "Go GET her!!! Don't let her just walk away!! Go GET her Ken!!!"

The last thing I'll note is that if she really loved Tada-san that much, would she let another man pull her away like that? Especially one who has tried to propose and shown his feelings? She can't possibly be that blind. Her expression as she's running is one of conspiracy, not outrage. She could have ended that run with just one sharp pull of her hand. She doesn't. That's got to mean something.

Remember her grandfather said in ep 5, "You're not always straightforward with your feelings. Like me." I think she's finally cracking.
Tada's comment much earlier when he first proposed bothered me. "I thought about the answer and it was like one of my tests, if I continue working on it, I still come to the same answer. So I want to marry you and start our life lines intersecting from their parallel course." He's much colder and methodical. Possibly good husband material, but Rei's still in girlhood fantasy-land.

I don't know if I'll stand the wait for these subs. I think I'll have to. Lunargen has done an excellent job of these. And I want to see the finale in a version I fully understand.

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » Jun 21st, '07, 21:24

WOW I never really thought about it like that BUT you are SOOO right. Dang now I want to watch DZ again.

I actually liked Masami and Yamapi a bit better in DZ, because they really did seem like two teenagers who grew up together and weren't sure what to do next. There was terrific physical tension there. Also both had great hair! :D


I've had to kinda project the DZ situation onto Ken/Rei; my feeling is most of the ProDai viewers (i.e. Yamapi and Masami fans) have already seen DZ and probably Nobuta, and have done the same. Because of how ProDai's narrative is set up, you're not allowed to let their situation organically develop in front of you. The show intentionally uses our memories of Pi's other shows to complete the "emotional history" of the story.


It's weird, though. During DZ, I was really rooting for the childhood friends. During H2 (and the other Adachi shows), I was REALLY rooting for the childhood friends. Heck, even Taiyou No Uta, I actually thought the chemistry between the actors depicting the childhood friend played better than with Kaoru Amane.


For ProDai, I just feel so noncommitted. I almost want to tell Ken every episode to enjoy your time with Rei and love her the best you can. Don't worry about confessing, just enjoy the moment and make some more good memories.


For the most part, I've enjoyed Rei's relationships with both guys. I just don't enjoy Rei. :D

For all you Tada pushers out there I just want to make one comment.

In my mind, neither guy is "better" or "worse" for Rei; this isn't a contest or game. This is about Rei trying to disclose what's in her heart. Even if she chose Ken in the end, she has to do it after arriving at real honesty in her heart. Not because Ken "won" her. Not because Ken "deserves" Rei more. Likewise if she stayed with Tada leaving behind a well of regret, then I'd hate her for that too.

Through my eyes Tada told Rei about everything Rei needs to know to dump him. Tada is a type of guy who lives only in the present and dreams of the future. Rei is a type of girl who the past is very important to her.

Right . . . but that presumes we know what type of girl Rei really is, and what she really wants. And fine, you may say "easy, she wants Ken, she just wasn't brave enough to admit it." But what does that mean? What does she want from Ken? What did she want from him? How did she really see their history or their relationship?


I don't blame ken for not knowing these things. She's never eluded to it with anybody but Tada of all people, the one stranger to her clique, her history, really her as anything but the young adult.

I mean they've been together forever so she should've known the kind of person he is. So the fact that both sides have higher expectations of each other may somehow skew their perceptions of others' feelings.

What's interesting to me is that Ken and Rei aren't really best friends. In almost every junai/childhood friendship drama, the childhood friends are either best friends or almost brother/sister. Even if they fight, they fight with a lot of private jokes and a lot of emotional generosity and a lot of communication. That's what we the audience are meant to feel between them, and what irks the love rivals in the story.


H2 was such a perfect model for this. In that story, there's scenes here and there where the lead male character expresses such a deep, delicate anguish over the childhood friend that he loved, and there's these knowing, empowering looks that she throws at him, coming from some deep faith.


Ken and Rei are a wrinkle away from that. They've been around together forever, but they've also fought and misunderstood each other pretty much forever too. They're not the conventional childhood friends; they're neither here nor there. It complicated what Rei wanted to do with their friendship, and it frustrates Ken now because he can't trust that being himself will be enough around her.


That works in real life too, btw. The childhood relationship is appealing to men because your soulmate grew with you and became a part of your becoming from child to adult. They are a part of you that an adult relationship can't. The childhood friendship is appealing to women because your soulmate can speak to you and share moments with you that an adult relationship without a past can't. The subversion here is that while the former is certainly true for Ken, the latter isn't true for Rei. Ken wants to tell Rei that he and she are of one mind. Tada is viewed as the enemy because he's literally taking a piece of Ken's life away from him. Rei, however, thinks "if that were true, then why has it been so hard between us for 15 years?!?" With Tada, she practices the communication and "new to each other" sensitivity that she couldn't with Ken. That doesn't mean Rei should choose Tada; rather, I wished she at least tried the same with Ken, actually talking to him, actually listening to each other.

Maybe Rei is expecting something more from Ken just because she feels that he should've known her better than everybody else.

Mm hmm. Eri even points this out to Rei; she expects him to read her mind.

I'm genuinely curious to know which scenes led you to form that impression.



It's there even before Rei formally met Tada. She half notices him down the hall, and later on, the way she talks back at him, quietly subverts teacher-student. And the way he was genuinely disturbed by her comments, it was all very well done.


Their friendship or relationship has always been the changes they've impacted upon each other, for better or worse.. Perhaps they should have stayed as friends, but I really enjoyed watching their interaction.

Really, all three leads have acted well with each other. if I were Rei, I'd still choose Ken in the end, but then I wouldn't have said yes to one guy and flip-flopped at the altar. Not unless Simon and Garfunkel are our wedding band. :D

dragonpoetry
Posts: 26
Joined: Mar 10th, '07, 02:59

Post by dragonpoetry » Jun 21st, '07, 21:28

fastat3m wrote:
When Rei sees the engagement ring that Ken had, bought, i consider that a significant event. It is one thing to hear someone say marry me, or say anything, but seeing a ring, shows how serious they are. I feel she is kind of conflicted with her heart telling her that Ken is the one but her brain saying to go the safe route with Tada. I think when she sees the ring, she will be overcome with emotion and her heart will win out. Some of the stuff Ken said earlier, she probably couldn't tell how serious he really was, especially because they were short moments, and when he time slipped back to the future, he didn't continue pursuing Rei. However, a ring shows how serious he really is, because 99% of people don't buy a ring without being completely serious.
How will Rei know that Ken bought it? I'm not sure if the rest of the group know that Ken bought a ring or not. And I don't think any of them saw it. Maybe Ken identifies it or Eri guesses?

Yes, the ring has to be important. I think it's a plot hinge too, or it wouldn't have been given any attention after it was left on the sign.

fastat3m
Posts: 49
Joined: Mar 7th, '06, 07:16
Location: Los Angeles

Post by fastat3m » Jun 22nd, '07, 00:59

dragonpoetry wrote:
fastat3m wrote:
When Rei sees the engagement ring that Ken had, bought, i consider that a significant event. It is one thing to hear someone say marry me, or say anything, but seeing a ring, shows how serious they are. I feel she is kind of conflicted with her heart telling her that Ken is the one but her brain saying to go the safe route with Tada. I think when she sees the ring, she will be overcome with emotion and her heart will win out. Some of the stuff Ken said earlier, she probably couldn't tell how serious he really was, especially because they were short moments, and when he time slipped back to the future, he didn't continue pursuing Rei. However, a ring shows how serious he really is, because 99% of people don't buy a ring without being completely serious.
How will Rei know that Ken bought it? I'm not sure if the rest of the group know that Ken bought a ring or not. And I don't think any of them saw it. Maybe Ken identifies it or Eri guesses?

Yes, the ring has to be important. I think it's a plot hinge too, or it wouldn't have been given any attention after it was left on the sign.
I think Ken confesses to Rei at the beginning and she will be shocked, so she will turn him down. I am thinking that Ken tells Mikio when Mikio is comforting him at the beginning of the episode and Mikio will mention it to Eri sometime later and they'll put one and one together and show Rei. Rei will then become overwhelmed with emotion and will follow her heart. I'm not sure how things will exactly play out but I do know the ring will be a major player in the next episode. Otherwise, the writers wouldn't have wasted their time having someone find it. Major events like the ring don't happen for no reason in television or movies. If it didn't play a role in the next episode, then they would have edited it out, because it would be pointless.

ah_blub
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 30th, '05, 01:31
Location: Singapore

Post by ah_blub » Jun 22nd, '07, 01:17

is it normal for a ger who had accepted a marriage proposal not to wear the proposal ring?????

if its not, check out ep 10. :)

I just couldnt find any ring on her finger. :P

User avatar
kilaalaa
Posts: 81
Joined: May 12th, '05, 00:53

Post by kilaalaa » Jun 22nd, '07, 13:50

Episode 11 Preview Spoiler
http://feature.tv.msn.co.jp/story/proposal_0625.htm
This is a longer text version of Episode 11 preview. Translations anyone?

But in the meantime:

I read Chinese translations of it, and it seems even though Ken brought Rei to their primary school, the dunzo still couldn't confess his feelings for her. In the meantime, Eri finds the ring and gives it to Rei. Ken goes back to the present. However, he realises that he is back at the time when the wedding was just about to start. (Its a present from the Yosei for Ken to fight in the "present" time.)
Ken decides to "challenge" his speech again. /end

---------------------------------

I guess this means something like The Graduate will happen? But seriously, at the point in time of Ken's speech, Rei and Tada would have exchanged vows already, making them husband and wife in name. So, I can't see how Rei can dump Tada just 1 hour after getting married. And, it also makes Rei seem like a mean character, even if Tada lets her go willingly. I don't know how the scriptwriters are going to write around this.

AH I DON'T KNOW! I can only hope MSN is wrong about this.

Well anyway, there are only 2 more days to the airing of the final episode, so I guess we will find out then.

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 22nd, '07, 14:16

kilaalaa wrote:Episode 11 Preview Spoiler
http://feature.tv.msn.co.jp/story/proposal_0625.htm
This is a longer text version of Episode 11 preview. Translations anyone?

But in the meantime:

I read Chinese translations of it, and it seems even though Ken brought Rei to their primary school, the dunzo still couldn't confess his feelings for her. In the meantime, Eri finds the ring and gives it to Rei. Ken goes back to the present. However, he realises that he is back at the time when the wedding was just about to start. (Its a present from the Yosei for Ken to fight in the "present" time.)
Ken decides to "challenge" his speech again. /end

---------------------------------

I guess this means something like The Graduate will happen? But seriously, at the point in time of Ken's speech, Rei and Tada would have exchanged vows already, making them husband and wife in name. So, I can't see how Rei can dump Tada just 1 hour after getting married. And, it also makes Rei seem like a mean character, even if Tada lets her go willingly. I don't know how the scriptwriters are going to write around this.

AH I DON'T KNOW! I can only hope MSN is wrong about this.

Well anyway, there are only 2 more days to the airing of the final episode, so I guess we will find out then.
well, not necessarily...in regards to
them being married already. cuz if this synopsis is true, then ken may not get a chance to deliver his speech. if things have changed enough to where, instead of rei being certain she's going to marry tada, to rei marrying tada out of obligation, then there's a chance that she may tell tada that she doesn't want to go through with it. which is what the episode 11 teaser shows...rei speaking to tada's back, with tada looking all "you killed my puppy" sad.

or if things play out the way they do, then it could be after the wedding, ken could confess in front of everyone during his speech, then walk out...and cry...then rei run after him, "KENZOU!!!!"...and then....fill in your ending here.

No_Moon
Posts: 14
Joined: Jun 5th, '04, 07:01
Contact:

Post by No_Moon » Jun 22nd, '07, 14:51

kilaalaa wrote:Episode 11 Preview Spoiler
http://feature.tv.msn.co.jp/story/proposal_0625.htm
This is a longer text version of Episode 11 preview. Translations anyone?

But in the meantime:

I read Chinese translations of it, and it seems even though Ken brought Rei to their primary school, the dunzo still couldn't confess his feelings for her. In the meantime, Eri finds the ring and gives it to Rei. Ken goes back to the present. However, he realises that he is back at the time when the wedding was just about to start. (Its a present from the Yosei for Ken to fight in the "present" time.)
Ken decides to "challenge" his speech again. /end

---------------------------------

I guess this means something like The Graduate will happen? But seriously, at the point in time of Ken's speech, Rei and Tada would have exchanged vows already, making them husband and wife in name. So, I can't see how Rei can dump Tada just 1 hour after getting married. And, it also makes Rei seem like a mean character, even if Tada lets her go willingly. I don't know how the scriptwriters are going to write around this.

AH I DON'T KNOW! I can only hope MSN is wrong about this.

Well anyway, there are only 2 more days to the airing of the final episode, so I guess we will find out then.
translation of it:
Last Episode (6/25 airing) preliminary announcement:
Ken (Yamashita Tomohisa) takes Rei (Nagasawa Masami) out of Tada (Fujiki Naohito)'s award party and the two go towards he elementary school where they first met. While walking around the schoolyard and classrooms, they two of them talk together of their memories.

Rei says, "I'm so glad I met you, Ken. Because you were here, I think I'm the person I am now. Thank you so much," confessing her honest feelings to Ken. Ken, upon hearing this, fortifies his decision to not tell his feelings inside the past, but to face Rei in the here-and-now, and they return to the party. At that time, in the hamburger shop, Eri (Eikura Nana) finds the ring that Ken could not give to Rei. While hesitating, Eri gives the ring to Rei.

Then, Ken, who has returned from the past to the present, is astonished to find that he has returned to the time immediately following the start of the ceremony. It is a present from the Fairy to Ken because he decided to fight in the present. Ken, who has received the chance to speak at the reception again, will never again challenge a speech with his feelings.....


(Sorry that last line is really hard to translate.. I think they just mean that he doesn't wanna have to ever make such a hard speech again and will fight his hardest not to have to do it.)

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 22nd, '07, 15:43

*groan* I didn't want to get into this discussion because i was trying to maintain an upbeat mood in the thread going into the finale. Buuuut no. Somebody just had to briing it up. So anyway, Ken and Rei will end up together, and the only source of suspense for me is how that's going to happen. The writers are this close to creating a classic, but they can still screw it up with a cheezy ending. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
We know that the day of the wedding will come. There is a shot of Kenzou walking by himself in a church hallway, but I can't tell if he's coming or going. My guess is he's leaving the ceremony. What kind of loser can bear to watch Rei march down the aisle twice? In epsiode 1, they cut away when the groom kissed the bride. Will they have to do that again?

The scenes where Rei is talking to Tada in full bridal finery are troubling because the groom is not supposed to see the bride in her wedding dress until her father delivers her to him on the day of the wedding, otherwise, the marriage is jinxed. If those scenes occur before the ceremony, then we're good. However, it looks like those scenes occur afterwards, because Rei is no longer wearing the veil, and not holding the bouquet.

If the ceremony does take place, then there is only one work-around I can come up with:a final time skip. By Rei. She's the one who gave up without really trying. To be fair, she was mislead by some foolish, self serving advice from her sensei. Perhaps it's her turn to experience regret and turn to the yosei.
I don't know exactly how it's going to come down and that's a good thing. Up to this point, the writers have shown nothing but a very deft, subtle touch. Although the preview may indicate that they've written themselves into a corner, we just have to trust that the writers that have skilfully carried us this far into this fantasy will maintain that same level of panache and style to the very end. I'll wash my hands of the whole mess if and when they screw up. But until then they've given me reason for doubt.

Edit: Jeez, I meant to say "no reason for doubt." They have given us no reason to doubt them.
Last edited by joeboygo on Jun 22nd, '07, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
daisukides
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 2nd, '07, 12:43
Location: Japan

Post by daisukides » Jun 22nd, '07, 16:18

I've decided to take a leap of faith and just trust the writers. Since they've done such a good job so far, I see no reason to doubt them. Actually I probably decided that back when I started watching this drama, because let's face it, this is a really weird story, with the yosei (am I the only one who thinks he is cute?) and the going back in time. Making that work is a huge accomplishment to me. So I have to believe that they will make the ending work too. And if they don't I'll just have to go over there and kick some butt. Ne? XD
ImageImage
gif made by bakki :thumright:

User avatar
Gorahgurl
Posts: 211
Joined: Sep 26th, '06, 00:10
Location: United States

Post by Gorahgurl » Jun 22nd, '07, 16:18

Gaaaaah I'm really trying hard avoiding this topic because of spoilers. xD Anyone know when the subs come out? Someone estimated today. =) But take your time.

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 22nd, '07, 16:41

No_Moon wrote:
kilaalaa wrote:Episode 11 Preview Spoiler
http://feature.tv.msn.co.jp/story/proposal_0625.htm
This is a longer text version of Episode 11 preview. Translations anyone?

But in the meantime:

I read Chinese translations of it, and it seems even though Ken brought Rei to their primary school, the dunzo still couldn't confess his feelings for her. In the meantime, Eri finds the ring and gives it to Rei. Ken goes back to the present. However, he realises that he is back at the time when the wedding was just about to start. (Its a present from the Yosei for Ken to fight in the "present" time.)
Ken decides to "challenge" his speech again. /end

---------------------------------



I guess this means something like The Graduate will happen? But seriously, at the point in time of Ken's speech, Rei and Tada would have exchanged vows already, making them husband and wife in name. So, I can't see how Rei can dump Tada just 1 hour after getting married. And, it also makes Rei seem like a mean character, even if Tada lets her go willingly. I don't know how the scriptwriters are going to write around this.

AH I DON'T KNOW! I can only hope MSN is wrong about this.

Well anyway, there are only 2 more days to the airing of the final episode, so I guess we will find out then.
translation of it:
Last Episode (6/25 airing) preliminary announcement:
Ken (Yamashita Tomohisa) takes Rei (Nagasawa Masami) out of Tada (Fujiki Naohito)'s award party and the two go towards he elementary school where they first met. While walking around the schoolyard and classrooms, they two of them talk together of their memories.

Rei says, "I'm so glad I met you, Ken. Because you were here, I think I'm the person I am now. Thank you so much," confessing her honest feelings to Ken. Ken, upon hearing this, fortifies his decision to not tell his feelings inside the past, but to face Rei in the here-and-now, and they return to the party. At that time, in the hamburger shop, Eri (Eikura Nana) finds the ring that Ken could not give to Rei. While hesitating, Eri gives the ring to Rei.

Then, Ken, who has returned from the past to the present, is astonished to find that he has returned to the time immediately following the start of the ceremony. It is a present from the Fairy to Ken because he decided to fight in the present. Ken, who has received the chance to speak at the reception again, will never again challenge a speech with his feelings.....


(Sorry that last line is really hard to translate.. I think they just mean that he doesn't wanna have to ever make such a hard speech again and will fight his hardest not to have to do it.)
Well in two more days we will either be A: Happy as a tornado in a trailer park, or B: mad as hell! I too will leave the end of this drama in the hands of the trusted writters! Good luck Kenzo!!!!!!!
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 23rd, '07, 04:19, edited 2 times in total.

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 22nd, '07, 18:03

Graymouse wrote: Well in two more days we will either be A: Happy as a tornado in a trailer park, or B: mad ass hell! I too will leave the end of this drama in the hands of the trusted writters! Good luck Kenzo!!!!!!!
Well, I'm pretty sure the writers will not have this story end up with Rei staying married with Tada. Otherwise, it would just make the ending too melodramatic and the whole story completely pointless.

The only question is how convincing is this final twist that the writers have come up with, to bring Rei and Ken together.

My thought of what may happen:
I'm betting it would be Tada who would bring the decisive change to the situation, and so the obstacle himself has become the facilitator between Rei and Ken. He mostly likely has figured out something between Rei and Ken and has started to doubt Rei's sincerity in this marriage. So, he goes to confront Rei right before the ceremony and confirms his fears. He then helps Rei to understand her own feelings for Ken and ultimately walks out on his own wedding. Having it like this would free Rei from having to choose the irresponsible route of walking out on Tada.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 22nd, '07, 19:57

I've been goofing off at work, poring over the previews for any subtle clues. This is all I could come up with.
in the preview, Kenzou is heading into the reception area. From episode 1, here's a shot of the hallway from the reception area looking towards the exit/entrance. The people at the reception desk are looking in because a strange wind just blew in, as if some mysterious presence had arrived (jiji?).
Image
Now here's a shot from the episode 11 preview of Kenzou walking in.
Image
Watch episode 1 again and note the sofa and the drapes. Also look at the mirror behind Rei in this shot. This is the very hallway where Rei and Tada will have their fateful confrontation.
Image

Rei is facing the exit, and Tada is between her and the exit. Hmmm. When you re-watch episode 1, also note that the strange wind blows into the hallway after the people manning the reception desk observe that all guests should have already arrived, then switch on the TV to check the results of the marathon. Even back then it seemed to me like some kind of portent that something big was going to happen on that very spot later on.
Based on these observations, it looks to me that whatever conclusion we end up with was planned from the start. It isn't the result of some last minute re-write, because if that hallway scene from episode 1 is any indication, the writers have been setting up the climactic sequence of events since the beginning of the show. I may or may not like what they eventually serve up, but it gives me some comfort to know that a lot of thought and advance planning went into it. So let's sit back and enjoy the last installment as best we could, and hope for the best.

Tass
Posts: 37
Joined: May 19th, '07, 13:21

Post by Tass » Jun 22nd, '07, 20:17

Even in the last Episode Ken will fail his mission, Rei still marries Tada and the Fairy turns towards the camera and gives a moral speech like:
"If you're awarded ten times the chance to change the past, don't waste them on your stupid childhood friend like this Idiot here... do something useful!"

If he only had once rooted for Eri he probably got her by now... I mean, Tsuru is not much to beat :lol

User avatar
crescent
Posts: 42
Joined: Jun 14th, '07, 18:51
Location: in front of the JE building > camping xD

Post by crescent » Jun 22nd, '07, 20:48

Tass wrote:Even in the last Episode Ken will fail his mission, Rei still marries Tada and the Fairy turns towards the camera and gives a moral speech like:
"If you're awarded ten times the chance to change the past, don't waste them on your stupid childhood friend like this Idiot here... do something useful!"

If he only had once rooted for Eri he probably got her by now... I mean, Tsuru is not much to beat :lol
You're joking, right?

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Jun 23rd, '07, 09:23

okie, i suppose everyone here doesn't need subs, but what the heck hehehe. i just released ep 10 subs. :D
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 23rd, '07, 09:25

pretty sure that
gust of wind was just symbolizing the yosei's presence in the building...even though he's outside on the balcony looking at ken in the next shot. of course, the rules of time and space don't apply to him.

similarly, the very first shot of the series is a gust of wind blowing curtains, through which the yosei walks through.

regarding the little burst of wind at that check in table...the wind came from directly in front of them...note the way the paper blows...if it came from the sides, then the paper would've blown sideways. why did they look to their right? am i not understanding the layout of the hall? entrance/exit leads straight on to the check in table, then you go to your left after signing in, through the "hallway of no return", right? So, just me wondering why they looked to their right...did they think someone really fast ran past them? =)

What does Tada say to Rei during the preview? "今から、かきおしない." ? "from now on...don't...what?" kinda missed that...but did he say anything important? did anyone notice that his face seems kinda ticked when he's saying that?

my guesses - ken doesn't confess to rei, but eri finds the ring and somehow realizes it's from ken (inscription probably) - she gives it to rei and then rei realizes ken's true feelings and gets all confused, because even though she says she's moved on, obviously we all know that she hasn't. a picture gets taken and ken ends up before the reception or before the ceremony? i can't remember when he's supposed to come back. he probably confesses during his speech or implies it very strongly, then leaves the hall, rei goes after him, but tada follows, they talk about whatever, meanwhile ken is crying somewhere because he thinks he's done making differences, but then hears "Kenzou!" and then something happens and they all live happily ever after.
probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Jun 23rd, '07, 09:32

aatm wrote:pretty sure that
gust of wind was just symbolizing the yosei's presence in the building...even though he's outside on the balcony looking at ken in the next shot. of course, the rules of time and space don't apply to him.

similarly, the very first shot of the series is a gust of wind blowing curtains, through which the yosei walks through.

regarding the little burst of wind at that check in table...the wind came from directly in front of them...note the way the paper blows...if it came from the sides, then the paper would've blown sideways. why did they look to their right? am i not understanding the layout of the hall? entrance/exit leads straight on to the check in table, then you go to your left after signing in, through the "hallway of no return", right? So, just me wondering why they looked to their right...did they think someone really fast ran past them? =)

What does Tada say to Rei during the preview? "今から、かきおしない." ? "from now on...don't...what?" kinda missed that...but did he say anything important? did anyone notice that his face seems kinda ticked when he's saying that?

my guesses - ken doesn't confess to rei, but eri finds the ring and somehow realizes it's from ken (inscription probably) - she gives it to rei and then rei realizes ken's true feelings and gets all confused, because even though she says she's moved on, obviously we all know that she hasn't. a picture gets taken and ken ends up before the reception or before the ceremony? i can't remember when he's supposed to come back. he probably confesses during his speech or implies it very strongly, then leaves the hall, rei goes after him, but tada follows, they talk about whatever, meanwhile ken is crying somewhere because he thinks he's done making differences, but then hears "Kenzou!" and then something happens and they all live happily ever after.
probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.
regarding what tada says:
the reason why I don't like translating previews is because of things like that. japanese tends to rely heavily on context, so a lot of the things they're saying have to be based on what the topic is. so i really didn't have any idea as to which "kaki" that is. so that was the only word i didn't translate. :lol
sorry im not much help
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 23rd, '07, 10:14

aatm wrote:pretty sure that
gust of wind was just symbolizing the yosei's presence in the building...even though he's outside on the balcony looking at ken in the next shot. of course, the rules of time and space don't apply to him.

similarly, the very first shot of the series is a gust of wind blowing curtains, through which the yosei walks through.

regarding the little burst of wind at that check in table...the wind came from directly in front of them...note the way the paper blows...if it came from the sides, then the paper would've blown sideways. why did they look to their right? am i not understanding the layout of the hall? entrance/exit leads straight on to the check in table, then you go to your left after signing in, through the "hallway of no return", right? So, just me wondering why they looked to their right...did they think someone really fast ran past them? =)

What does Tada say to Rei during the preview? "今から、かきおしない." ? "from now on...don't...what?" kinda missed that...but did he say anything important? did anyone notice that his face seems kinda ticked when he's saying that?

my guesses - ken doesn't confess to rei, but eri finds the ring and somehow realizes it's from ken (inscription probably) - she gives it to rei and then rei realizes ken's true feelings and gets all confused, because even though she says she's moved on, obviously we all know that she hasn't. a picture gets taken and ken ends up before the reception or before the ceremony? i can't remember when he's supposed to come back. he probably confesses during his speech or implies it very strongly, then leaves the hall, rei goes after him, but tada follows, they talk about whatever, meanwhile ken is crying somewhere because he thinks he's done making differences, but then hears "Kenzou!" and then something happens and they all live happily ever after.
probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.
You know what that sounds very likely to happen. Intresting.

User avatar
myunoyume
Posts: 123
Joined: Feb 7th, '07, 15:59
Location: Furansu
Contact:

Post by myunoyume » Jun 23rd, '07, 11:05

lunargen wrote:okie, i suppose everyone here doesn't need subs, but what the heck hehehe. i just released ep 10 subs. :D
Sorry in advance for my silly question, but where are these wonderful subs of Ep 10 ?

:wub: Thank you for your hard and fast work

REEDIT : I found it finally, thanks.... :wub:

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 23rd, '07, 11:50

Graymouse wrote:
aatm wrote:pretty sure that
gust of wind was just symbolizing the yosei's presence in the building...even though he's outside on the balcony looking at ken in the next shot. of course, the rules of time and space don't apply to him.

similarly, the very first shot of the series is a gust of wind blowing curtains, through which the yosei walks through.

regarding the little burst of wind at that check in table...the wind came from directly in front of them...note the way the paper blows...if it came from the sides, then the paper would've blown sideways. why did they look to their right? am i not understanding the layout of the hall? entrance/exit leads straight on to the check in table, then you go to your left after signing in, through the "hallway of no return", right? So, just me wondering why they looked to their right...did they think someone really fast ran past them? =)

What does Tada say to Rei during the preview? "??????????." ? "from now on...don't...what?" kinda missed that...but did he say anything important? did anyone notice that his face seems kinda ticked when he's saying that?

my guesses - ken doesn't confess to rei, but eri finds the ring and somehow realizes it's from ken (inscription probably) - she gives it to rei and then rei realizes ken's true feelings and gets all confused, because even though she says she's moved on, obviously we all know that she hasn't. a picture gets taken and ken ends up before the reception or before the ceremony? i can't remember when he's supposed to come back. he probably confesses during his speech or implies it very strongly, then leaves the hall, rei goes after him, but tada follows, they talk about whatever, meanwhile ken is crying somewhere because he thinks he's done making differences, but then hears "Kenzou!" and then something happens and they all live happily ever after.
probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.
You know what that sounds very likely to happen. Intresting.
Very plausible. However, it would be fun to have it end like this too:
Continuing what aatm had said above... Right after Ken hears "Kenzou" from Rei, he runs toward Rei but only to get hit by a bus. At Ken's funeral, the same fairy, who happens to haunt at that funeral home also, shows up to a tearful Rei and tells her all about the turmoils that she had put him through. Pitying the regretful Rei, he offers her a chance to change the past as slides of Ken's eulogy is shown; hence, sparkling a second season to ProDai. :)

User avatar
Love Angel
Posts: 342
Joined: Mar 5th, '06, 18:06
Location: UAE

Post by Love Angel » Jun 23rd, '07, 12:33

daisukides wrote:with the yosei (am I the only one who thinks he is cute?)
I think that too! XD


I have 1 question regarding the perview & I don't know if it has been mentioned before :unsure:

Image
rei in a wedding dress and it's at night as i see..where is this place? *sorry if I missed something*
maybe she dumped tada and left the weeding to look for ken :lol

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 23rd, '07, 13:30

aatm wrote:pretty sure that
gust of wind was just symbolizing the yosei's presence in the building...even though he's outside on the balcony looking at ken in the next shot. of course, the rules of time and space don't apply to him.
I realize I was clutching at straws there, but why symbolize something you can pretty much show? The audience can see the yosei. And why have it happen at that spot and at that moment? I'm fresh out of ideas.
aatm wrote:
regarding the little burst of wind at that check in table...the wind came from directly in front of them...note the way the paper blows...if it came from the sides, then the paper would've blown sideways. why did they look to their right? am i not understanding the layout of the hall? entrance/exit leads straight on to the check in table, then you go to your left after signing in, through the "hallway of no return", right? So, just me wondering why they looked to their right...did they think someone really fast ran past them? =)
When you sign in, the banquet hall would be to your left, which is to their right because they are facing you. They looked to the right (towards the reception) because something that displaced a lot of air blew past them and seemed headed in that direction. Hence it would appear that the apparition came in through the entrance and turned left just like the other guests. If, as you say, the yosei can pop in and out anyplace like a gopher head, why bother with the fancy wind effect? Yes, I lknow I'm getting silly.
aatm wrote:
What does Tada say to Rei during the preview? "今から、かきおしない." ? "from now on...don't...what?" kinda missed that...but did he say anything important? did anyone notice that his face seems kinda ticked when he's saying that?
I'm guessing Tada said "今から、客気 を しない" "henceforth, don't be rash," kinda liike "act like a grown-up, you're a married woman now." I'm trying to make him sound as patronizing as possible. (Edit: there's no such expression. wrong again.)
aatm wrote:
my guesses - ken doesn't confess to rei, but eri finds the ring and somehow realizes it's from ken (inscription probably) - she gives it to rei and then rei realizes ken's true feelings and gets all confused, because even though she says she's moved on, obviously we all know that she hasn't. a picture gets taken and ken ends up before the reception or before the ceremony? i can't remember when he's supposed to come back. he probably confesses during his speech or implies it very strongly, then leaves the hall, rei goes after him, but tada follows, they talk about whatever, meanwhile ken is crying somewhere because he thinks he's done making differences, but then hears "Kenzou!" and then something happens and they all live happily ever after.
probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.
Now it's time for my rant. You Yamapi fangirls had best stay away from the following diatribe lest we have an intense disagreement. (WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE)
If Ken uses the reception speech to piss on Tada's lemonade then that's the last straw. I'm switching sides. Honestly, it's been really hard for a regular, heterosexual, beer-drinking and gun-owning guy like me to root for Yamapi as a leading man because: 1) I can't frikkin dance and I've aways been suspicious of guys with swishy hips; 2) that silly hair - it bespeaks of one who pays an inordinate amount of attention to his personal appearance; and 3) his Kenzou cries and whines too damned much for my taste. But I've stuck with Ken because despite all that, he has conducted his campaign in the manly fashion of a true gentleman. Nothing underhanded or sneaky, always scrupulously honest and honorable, notwithstanding dire consequences. He could have been rid of Tada as early as episode 3, for example. But the focus of his efforts has been to win Rei over on his own merits instead of sabotaging Tada, however easy that could have been. For his integrity ken deserves the grudging support of regular dudes all over despite whatever misgivings we may have about his personal style.

But if Ken uses the speech at the reception to make his feelings known, whether directly or implied, then as far as I'm concerned he has made a total ass of himself. There are certain lines a gentleman cannot cross, and one of those is that you must not, for whatever reason, make it publicly known that you covet another man's wife or harbor any romantic designs on her. That is disrespectful of her, her husband, their families, and yourself. There has to come a finish line because Ken cannot have permanent license to keep bird-dogging Rei until he gets her. So once the wedding ceremony takes place, it's game over. If Ken hasn't managed to say anything to Rei by that point, that's just too bad, 'cuz it's time for him to finally STFU. No more whining. Face the consequences of failure like a man. If Rei and Ken are to be together past that point she has to take the initiative because Ken is honor-bound to withdraw from the fight.

This is the first time a Yamapi character will be allowed to score on the leading lady. It would be pus awful for Yamapi if the writers crap on his romantic debut with as eggregiously gay a maneuver as a wedding reception confession speech, and thereby mar the rest of his carreer. We may as well designate Kame as Yamapi's permanent love interest from now on, because that is the only kind of p***y such a half-assed romantic lead deserves to get (at least Belleza will be happy). I find it hard to believe Yamapi's handlers would allow their hottest property to have such an inauspicious start to his romanitic idol carreer. But we'll just have to wait and see.
And that's why if the show ends as you predict, I'll find it about as easy to swallow as a warm pitcher of spit.

@ Love Angel - that looks like the pipe organ behind her.
Last edited by joeboygo on Jun 23rd, '07, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
malay_tiger
Posts: 129
Joined: May 2nd, '06, 19:12
Location: Malaysia

Post by malay_tiger » Jun 23rd, '07, 18:16

Love Angel wrote:
Image
rei in a wedding dress and it's at night as i see..where is this place? *sorry if I missed something*
maybe she dumped tada and left the weeding to look for ken :lol
Love Angel, maybe you right.. :thumright:

wishing for happy ending :wub:

Image

nice haircut for both Nagasawa Masami (Rei) and Yamashita Tomohisa (Ken) 8)

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 23rd, '07, 20:41

@ Lunargen

that's totally okay that you don't translate the previews, and yes, it does make sense as to why as well. if i had half a clue as to what was being said as you and joeboygo and others do, well...i'd halfway be in the know. =) and I personally want to thank you for your subs. they're great!

@ Sakurachan

while your idea for the start of season 2 is very...well, what it is...=)...i hope that there will be a less traumatizing ending...and one that is more final than what yamapi did last in Kurosagi...i mean, what the heck what that?

@ Joeboygo
joeboygo wrote:
I realize I was clutching at straws there, but why symbolize something you can pretty much show? The audience can see the yosei. And why have it happen at that spot and at that moment? I'm fresh out of ideas.


don't get me wrong. i love your idea. i think that would be an extremely well written foreshadowing. just...i don't know...we'll see in about 48 hours or so. =)
joeboygo wrote:
When you sign in, the banquet hall would be to your left, which is to their right because they are facing you. They looked to the right (towards the reception) because something that displaced a lot of air blew past them and seemed headed in that direction. Hence it would appear that the apparition came in through the entrance and turned left just like the other guests. If, as you say, the yosei can pop in and out anyplace like a gopher head, why bother with the fancy wind effect? Yes, I lknow I'm getting silly.


maybe for the same reason he appears with a giant spotlight and handel's hallelujah chorus? maybe. or you could be right, although, if the displacement was caused by something from episode 11...
it probably wasn't ken since he's walking slow. i was initially thinking that it could perhaps be Rei...from the new reality, running after Ken ("Kenzou!!!"), but then, why would they be running towards the reception hall? If they wind were perhaps showing more sign of someone leaving, then I'd definitely be on board with you about the foreshadowing....but since the symbolism shows someone entering the reception hall...I'm a little....eh.
joeboygo wrote:
But if Ken uses the speech at the reception to make his feelings known, whether directly or implied, then as far as I'm concerned he has made a total ass of himself.


You're probably right. There probably won't be an outright confession, but perhaps he'll just make a passing remark caught only by Rei, as Tada is too dense and inobservant to notice anything of importance, as was demonstrated by his indifference towards Rei's past.
At which point, Rei will stand up and say, "Kenzou!!!" and pull the ring out of her pocket that she's kept with her ever since Eri gave it to her, and take off Tada's ring and put in Ken's ring, and Ken and Rei frollic out of the reception hall, arm in arm.

Or not. I'm still struggling here as to how the writers are going to get Ken and Rei together if the timeslip is after the ceremony but before the reception, cuz after all, vows have been said, picture's been taken and all that's left is the speech and slideshow all over again. maybe it'll be an unending cycle.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 23rd, '07, 21:22

aatm wrote:
it probably wasn't ken since he's walking slow. i was initially thinking that it could perhaps be Rei...from the new reality, running after Ken ("Kenzou!!!"), but then, why would they be running towards the reception hall? If they wind were perhaps showing more sign of someone leaving, then I'd definitely be on board with you about the foreshadowing....but since the symbolism shows someone entering the reception hall...I'm a little....eh.


I'm actually betting it was her jiji to the rescue. I'm still trying to decide whether an appearance by his ghost in the finale would be cool or way over the top.

Grrr. That Tada vexes me to the very end. What did he say in the preview? Could it have been "今から, 壁 を しない" - from now on, make no walls [between us]? It's driving me nuts. At least I'm sure it's a noun. Hey paciensia queen, when you're finished cooking the bibingka we could use your help. What's your best guess? Anybody?

User avatar
kilaalaa
Posts: 81
Joined: May 12th, '05, 00:53

Post by kilaalaa » Jun 23rd, '07, 21:44

Maybe Jiji sent the Yosei to Ken. LOL
I want to see Jiji again, he was such an amusing character!

User avatar
malay_tiger
Posts: 129
Joined: May 2nd, '06, 19:12
Location: Malaysia

Post by malay_tiger » Jun 23rd, '07, 21:49

again wishing for happy ending.. :wub:

Image

microsoftExcelExcel
Posts: 59
Joined: Apr 2nd, '07, 22:36
Location: Illinois

Post by microsoftExcelExcel » Jun 23rd, '07, 22:23

Just give us the happy ending, dammit. :cussing:

Previews just give way too much out. Unless the writers were trying to fool us, it pretty much has "Rei will leave Tada" written all over it. >_> Those writers better not be playing tricks though cause I will be royally pissed. by now I'm at about 80% sure about a happy ending just because of the whole "Ken-zou!" scream/yell/shout. She wouldn't go back to calling him Kenzou for nothing.
Image
関ジャニ∞ ♥♥♥

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Jun 23rd, '07, 23:40

joeboygo wrote:
aatm wrote:
it probably wasn't ken since he's walking slow. i was initially thinking that it could perhaps be Rei...from the new reality, running after Ken ("Kenzou!!!"), but then, why would they be running towards the reception hall? If they wind were perhaps showing more sign of someone leaving, then I'd definitely be on board with you about the foreshadowing....but since the symbolism shows someone entering the reception hall...I'm a little....eh.


I'm actually betting it was her jiji to the rescue. I'm still trying to decide whether an appearance by his ghost in the finale would be cool or way over the top.

Grrr. That Tada vexes me to the very end. What did he say in the preview? Could it have been "今から, 壁 を しない" - from now on, make no walls [between us]? It's driving me nuts. At least I'm sure it's a noun. Hey paciensia queen, when you're finished cooking the bibingka we could use your help. What's your best guess? Anybody?
yowza! ahahha your guess is as good as mine my friend. i've been bleeding my japanese skills to death with that one to no avail. even in my subs i put them as "kaki" cause god knows what that means. :lol heck we don't even know who tada's referring to T.T

here are some candidate meanings though:
かき回す【かきまわす】
(v5s,vt) to stir up; to churn; to ransack; to disturb

かき交ぜる【かきまぜる】
(v1) to mix; to stir; to scramble; to churn

かき混ぜる【かきまぜる】
(v1) to mix; to stir; to scramble; to churn

過勤【かきん】
(n) overwork

垣根【かきね】
(n) hedge; (P)

かき分ける【かきわける】
(v1,vt) to push one's way through

活気【かっき】
(n) energy; liveliness; (P)

客気【かっき】
(n) youthful ardor; rashness <== joeboygo's bet

かっきり
(adj) (1) exactly; just; precisely; (2) punctually; (adv-to) (3) clearly delineated (of boundaries, etc.)

かっきりに
(adj) (1) exactly; just; precisely; (2) punctually

割拠【かっきょ】
(n,vs) holding one's ground; defending local authority


活況【かっきょう】
(n) activity; briskness; prosperity; (P)

家居【かきょ】
(n,vs) staying at home

寡居【かきょ】
(n,vs) widowhood <<=== darn this made me shudder

佳境【かきょう】
(n) climax (story); (P)


家教【かきょう】
(n) (abbr) tutor

火急【かきゅう】
(adj-na,n) emergency; urgency

the ones in red are the ones i think which are most likely....
okay people, place your bets!
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 24th, '07, 00:04

じじの霊 might be a little too much...と思います。 but that's just me.

友達を電話を書きました。 日本人です、 so maybe she'll be able to have a better idea of what 多田さん said. That is NOT meant AT ALL to say that anyone here doesn't know what they're saying, cuz my japanese is the worst of all. =P I just thought I'd try to get some help, but as Lunargen said earlier, it's hard to understand without knowing the context.

*sigh*...

SandLoan
Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 24th, '07, 00:09

Post by SandLoan » Jun 24th, '07, 00:11

is this drama nice? i watched ep1 half way and i just cant go on because its damn boring to me

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 24th, '07, 00:14

that depends on what type of show you like. just about everyone here loves it like their second born...well...I shouldn't speak for everyone else...and i don't have any kids, but if i did, and had a second born, watching this is probably like having a second born.

i'm totally kidding. it's one of, if not my favorite drama that i've ever seen, but obviously that's not to say it's for everyone. give it a couple episodes and if you're sure that you think it's boring then at least you gave it a try.

eyesonly
Posts: 9
Joined: Jun 22nd, '07, 16:08

Post by eyesonly » Jun 24th, '07, 00:44

like me I am wishing for happy ending too ha~ha~ :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:
Proposal Daisakusen :: http://www.bloggang.com/mainblog.php?id=miss-josephins
Attachments
bscap00002.jpg
bscap00002.jpg (30.13 KiB) Viewed 862 times

User avatar
daisukides
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 2nd, '07, 12:43
Location: Japan

Post by daisukides » Jun 24th, '07, 01:06

aatm wrote
You're probably right. There probably won't be an outright confession, but perhaps he'll just make a passing remark caught only by Rei, as Tada is too dense and inobservant to notice anything of importance, as was demonstrated by his indifference towards Rei's past.
I don't think Tada is indifferent to Rei's past. I think he is intentionally avoiding the subject, because allowing Rei to talk about it would help her understand the feelings for Ken that she has been suppressing all this time. She brings up the subject beacuse she wants Tada's help in sorting out her own feelings, and he declines because he knows - or senses - that he might lose her if he allows her to talk about it. So they're both acting out of concern for themselves, only, I don't think Rei realizes what she's doing (looking for a way out). Tada on the other hand is older and wiser and probably knows exactly what he's doing, although he's doing a pretty good job of playing stupid. I think he knows he caught a lucky break when Rei agreed to date and marry him and he's trying hard not to rock the boat. He already had his miracle and now he wants to maintain status quo. Ken has the much harder job of changing things and is still searching for his miracle.

Ganbatte Ken!
Move over Tada!

We all know who deserves to win here right?
ImageImage
gif made by bakki :thumright:

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 24th, '07, 01:36

lunargen wrote: yowza! ahahha your guess is as good as mine my friend. i've been bleeding my japanese skills to death with that one to no avail. even in my subs i put them as "kaki" cause god knows what that means. :lol heck we don't even know who tada's referring to T.T

here are some candidate meanings though:
かき回す【かきまわす】
(v5s,vt) to stir up; to churn; to ransack; to disturb

かき交ぜる【かきまぜる】
(v1) to mix; to stir; to scramble; to churn

かき混ぜる【かきまぜる】
(v1) to mix; to stir; to scramble; to churn

過勤【かきん】
(n) overwork

垣根【かきね】
(n) hedge; (P)

かき分ける【かきわける】
(v1,vt) to push one's way through

活気【かっき】
(n) energy; liveliness; (P)

客気【かっき】
(n) youthful ardor; rashness <== joeboygo's bet

かっきり
(adj) (1) exactly; just; precisely; (2) punctually; (adv-to) (3) clearly delineated (of boundaries, etc.)

かっきりに
(adj) (1) exactly; just; precisely; (2) punctually

割拠【かっきょ】
(n,vs) holding one's ground; defending local authority


活況【かっきょう】
(n) activity; briskness; prosperity; (P)

家居【かきょ】
(n,vs) staying at home

寡居【かきょ】
(n,vs) widowhood <<=== darn this made me shudder

佳境【かきょう】
(n) climax (story); (P)


家教【かきょう】
(n) (abbr) tutor

火急【かきゅう】
(adj-na,n) emergency; urgency

the ones in red are the ones i think which are most likely....
okay people, place your bets!
Let's do process of elimination. I think it's a noun, because if it were an adjective we'd have heard "ni" or "ku" instead of "wo," and if it were a verb it would have been conjugated to the "-te" form. I'm almost sure my first guess of "kakki" is wrong because it doesn't look like that word is commonly used with the verb suru. He's not really ordering her to stop doing something, because otherwise he would have said "suru na" or "shinai de." It looks like he's saying that from that point on, something just isn't anymore. Could it be 火急 then ? Maybe he sees her rushing off somewhere and stops her just before the exit, saying "hey what's the rush, you're with me now so take it easy. "

Or instead of "k" perhaps it was actually a "b," as in kabe? "From now on there are no walls [between us]." (?) AAARGH!!!!!

aatm, tomodatchi ni denwa shimasen ka? Tanomu 'nda zo.

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 24th, '07, 02:29

@joe: @lunargen: I was lucky enough to marry a japanese lady who makes a really nice living out of translating stuff from Japanese to English so since there has been such a debate about what he said I decided to watch episode 10 with my wife. We watched the preview as well and according to my wife Tada said "now do you want to make a bet (wager)?" "Kaki" "kakki" sp? wager/bet or "Now, lets make a bet(wager)? I thought that I would help. Please forgive me if I stepped on anyones toes.

BTW: Just over 1 day left until the finale and we can finally see Tada LOSE and Ken WIN for a change!
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 24th, '07, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Jun 24th, '07, 02:53

I've been told by a friend in LJ that that's how the chinese subs translated them, that it's "now let's bet etc etc etc"... well, if someone japanese had said that that is what it means, then i won't contest that :lol heehee and don't worry! you're not stepping on toes! at least we knoe what it means now hehehe :lol
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 24th, '07, 02:57

lunargen wrote:I've been told by a friend in LJ that that's how the chinese subs translated them, that it's "now let's bet etc etc etc"... well, if someone japanese had said that that is what it means, then i won't contest that :lol heehee and don't worry! you're not stepping on toes! at least we knoe what it means now hehehe :lol


8)

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 24th, '07, 03:21

面白い。。。

Graymouse and Lunargen, please tell your sources ありがとう for us!

That helps out alot...now, to what that bet could be...guesses?

User avatar
bl00_4ng31
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 11th, '07, 01:43
Location: LA

Post by bl00_4ng31 » Jun 24th, '07, 04:17

aatm: love ur icon!!

lunargen: THANKS SOOOOOOOOO MUCH FOR UR SUBS!!!!! :lol :lol :lol

graymouse: much thanks too!!

ok now onto ep 10 rants.....
WAT THE HECKKKKKKKKKKK T.T WHY WAS KEN CRYING IN THE PREVIEWS? WHY MUST THE DONT KNOCK NEW YORK SIGN BE MOVED? WHY WAS REI SCREAMING KEN'S NAME IN THE PREVIEWS? WHY DO THEY HAVE TO LEAVE ME HANGING LIKE THIS?????!!!!! :cry: *sobsob* i think that i'm gonna DIE before the finale :cry: i swear when younger-ken said "i will take responsibility for her. i will take care of her for the rest of my life" i thought i was gonna have massive chest pains right here t.t and when they did all those flashbacks and memories of rei's grandpa :cry: :cry:
*snifffff* i cant wait for ep 11.....:cry:
Image
credit:: machibouke@LJ

amirvero
Posts: 160
Joined: Jun 1st, '07, 21:30
Location: California

Post by amirvero » Jun 24th, '07, 05:47

episode 10 made me cry all the way through. Anything can happen now... OMG! I can't wait!!
Believe

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 24th, '07, 06:13

Regarding to what Tada was saying to Rei in the preview for ep. 11, I'm hearing

「今から、かけおちしない。」

which is somewhat vague to translate without the context. My best guess is

"From now on, don't run away."
Last edited by sakurachan on Jun 24th, '07, 06:16, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
godmode
Posts: 89
Joined: Oct 7th, '05, 16:03
Location: Canada eh?

Post by godmode » Jun 24th, '07, 06:15

Im probably alone on this, but im hoping this show will end with Ken moving on with his life and letting Tada-sensei(who seems like a great guy, better than Ken anyway) marry Rei.
Currently watching:

Proposal Daisakusen
Hanayome to Papa

User avatar
bl00_4ng31
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 11th, '07, 01:43
Location: LA

Post by bl00_4ng31 » Jun 24th, '07, 06:18

amirvero wrote:episode 10 made me cry all the way through. Anything can happen now... OMG! I can't wait!!
*sniffsniff* I KNOWWWW i hate how basically ANYTHINGGG can happen in ep 11 :cry: im gonna die waiting for the finale :cry: (ok fine im being dramatic and a total yamapi-fan :lol)
Image
credit:: machibouke@LJ

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 24th, '07, 06:58

Graymouse wrote:@joe: @lunargen: I was lucky enough to marry a japanese lady who makes a really nice living out of translating stuff from Japanese to English so since there has been such a debate about what he said I decided to watch episode 10 with my wife. We watched the preview as well and according to my wife Tada said "now do you want to make a bet (wager)?" "Kaki" "kakki" sp? wager/bet or "Now, lets make a bet(wager)? I thought that I would help. Please forgive me if I stepped on anyones toes.

BTW: Just over 1 day left until the finale and we can finally see Tada LOSE and Ken WIN for a change!
Ah thank you, Graymouse, for marrying somebody Japanese. Every home should have one. So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "賭" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.

Now to all you Tada boosters, nothing personal but, we're cheering for different teams, and if anybody's going to crash and burn, I'd rather it be you than me. I'm with most everybody here in wanting a happy ending. But I want to win properly, not at all costs.
I want Ken to end up with Rei because he made it into the right thing for both of them, not because he pulled some cheap, melodramatic stunt. It would suck hard if Ken and Rei fail to hook up after all this trouble. But it would suck even harder for me if Ken morphs into a scoundrel just to get her.

I think many of the guys here, like me, gravitated towards this show because we suffered the self same kind of agony Ken had to endure in episode one. But unlike Ken, we exist in the real world with no second chances, so there isn't much else for us besides learning to live with loss. Still, a part of my imagination persistently escaped into my own parallel universe, where things turned out differently and I was much, much happier. I identify so readily with Ken because his adventure is as close as I'm ever going to get to seeing this happy parallel universe outside of my own head. When I look at Ken I see a version of myself at a time when things aren't yet fixed in stone, and I still have a halelluja chance of setting things right. If Kenzou wins fair and square, I might know, ever so briefly, the pleasure and satisfaction of being whole again. On the otherhand, he'll be completely useless to me if he resorts to any embarrassing or distasteful. gimmicks just to win.


I guess I'm still trying to rationalize how I ever got hooked on a Yamapi dorama. It probably won't happen again, but I'm glad I found something in common with the bunch of you fangirls, 'cuz I had a great time hanging out with you on this thread. Just think: had it not been for this show we would have been like a pair of Tada's parallel lines. :-) It was fun intersecting with the lot of you these past few weeks in a way I could never have imagined just two months ago.

To you Yamapikai, I have to say, your man did a good job. I was prepared to despise him as much as that little trollop, Kame, but to my surprise he turned out to be a credible lead who could carry a show on his own, and this comes from a guy that is naturally skeptical of his type. He's not yet as skilled an actor as Masami, but this is something he can improve with practice. And like few other actors in his generation, he's taller than she is, so she's going to need him more than he needs her.

(Kame Fans: Do not Read)
.
The important thing is that he appears to possess those intangibles that separate the stars from the wannabes like mama's boy Kame. I suppose if Kame needs a purpose in life he can be Yamapi's little **** forever. Sappuri would have been a huge hit if it had Tomohisa instead of Kazuya the famished prison whore.

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 24th, '07, 07:12

joeboygo wrote:So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "賭" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.
I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"

Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
Last edited by sakurachan on Jun 24th, '07, 08:28, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Jun 24th, '07, 08:05

sakurachan wrote:
joeboygo wrote:So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "?" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.
I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "are you not going to run away now?" or "are you not going to elope now?"

Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
that would have to be the most fitting guess as to what tada refers to thus far, but the only thing that worries me about that is, how can tada say that with almost a beaming kind of face? i mean, if i were him i'd be all daggers already (but then Tada doesn't have normal emotional capacity so i don't really know XD )

----------

@ joeboygo - AWWWWWWWWWWW....... *hugs* hahah your little speech right there made me all sentimental. :cry: we ourselves here have almost turned into that same rowdy 5nin we see every week!(complete with the fights and occasional tantrums to boot, heck, we call each other names here now even! XD ) it so sad it has to end (i'd wish it were longer if only i wasn't the one subbing!!), for sure we are never gonna see each other again! heheh i have a feeling you, graymouse and belleza will see much of each other, i feel that you three have a flair for the more tasteful dramas, whilst I will go fangirling away on the usual clicheic crap jdramas can throw me (yes i admit that i have bad taste, i never claimed to have a good one in the first place XD ) (siya nga pala, i've been meaning to ask this, tiga saan ka sa atin? Ateneo, UP, LaSalle? :D )

and of course, kame *cue twilight zone music*, will never cough up the same acting prowess Pipi has. *Yes go ahead and smite me Kame fans.* Heck, the only reason I became a serious yamapi fan is because of his acting! (and really, im not kidding. with his personality, I figured he had LOADS of trouble with the akirayaku) That's why I believed even before this aired that Yamapi will deliver. I don't think Johnny-san will trust such a dorama just to anybody if he doesn't believe them to be good enough. (and we know that Johnny can be a good judge of talent. *i say CAN because he does miss sometimes coughakamecough* Case in point: Tegoshi)


Good lord, I remember reading somewhere that this will end with Rei wanting to timeslip and thus a season two?!?! :crazy: :crazy: God forbid. Just give Pi his happy ending and I will be a happy pathetic fangirl. Cheers. :lol
Avatar thanks to haiki-chan@livejournal

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Jun 24th, '07, 08:29

I'll join in on the Kame bashing. =) After watching Nobuta wo Produce and Tatta Hitotsu no Koi...I just find his acting a little bland. I found YamaPi much more enjoyable in NwP than Kame.

And yes, the elope question seems to make more sense. One thing I mentioned before was that, it seems like Tada's kinda ticked when he says that. Sure it's a smile...of sorts...but it seems like it's a "I'm freaking ticked off" smile.

But we'll see...it's getting closer...

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » Jun 24th, '07, 08:46

Ta-da Tada!! You've been just left at the altar!! Anyhoo . . .
Good lord, I remember reading somewhere that this will end with Rei wanting to timeslip and thus a season two?!?! God forbid. Just give Pi his happy ending and I will be a happy pathetic fangirl. Cheers.
If it means punishing Rei for torturing her childhood love and leading on Dr. Fujita Naohito, I'm all for it.

Oddly, I entertained for about 5 minutes whether Tada was really Ken from the future, rectifying the situation of Ken from the present, who's trying to rewrite Ken from the past. And that in fact, the future was an appocalyptic mess where soccer was popular in America.

Anyway, if they did Proposal Season 2, have Erika Sawajiri play her terminally ill rival. Or, better yet, let her rival be Kame. Hallelujah No Chance! :D
I'll join in on the Kame bashing. =) After watching Nobuta wo Produce and Tatta Hitotsu no Koi...I just find his acting a little bland. I found YamaPi much more enjoyable in NwP than Kame.
Kame's hair has terrific acting chops though. I really liked him in Nobuta, but I think Nobuta was kind of a lucky shot for everybody involved. My favorite Kat-tun actor is definitely Junno. He always looks "just happy to be there" (and he and Ishihara Saotmi are just DARLING in Hanayome!) If he wasn't almost 6 foot, his nose would be tall.

Missaness
Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 16th, '07, 23:40
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Post by Missaness » Jun 24th, '07, 08:52

Ah see. I don't mind Kame. No, I don't think he can match Pi, either in singing or acting, but he's better than a lot of the JE talennt out there. Like Akanishi Jin. Sorry, I'm a Jin hater - I'll freely admit that.

Pi is one of the better actors in JE. That's because he wanted to star in dramas from such a young age. He didn't like singing too much (he's good at it, but not great). He likes to act. And actually, for NwP a lot of Akira's character was his own interpretation to bring the character more to life.

I started watching Pi's dramas since Long Love Letter. I liked that drama and his part in it. While there are a few that I've missed, he's improved tremendously over the years.

And while Tegoshi may not be a great actor, he *does* have one of the best singing voices in JE. Remember too, He's really young too and has only acted in a few dramas. In time, if he chooses to keep acting, then he may become better at it.

As for ProDai... It may not be my favorite drama of all time, but I really enjoyed it. I don't rewatch the episodes like I do many of the other dramas, but that's probably because it isn't complete.
The reason I love this drama is because I just don't know HOW it is going to end. Throughout the whole thing there have been instances when one or both (Ken and Rei) were idiots. I want Pi to get the girl. I just don't know how it's going to happen. My guess is that it will happen before the actual ceremony. Tada may have been part instigator in the whole thing, though I hope not maliciously, but I think it is he who will bring about the correct ending. He mature, wiser, and should be able to tell what is going on. He's not some young kid who doesn't know the way of the world. Eh, I can only hope that he is the one to help bring about the conclusion. Even if I don't like his character.

qsk
Posts: 26
Joined: Jun 18th, '07, 13:24
Location: japan

Post by qsk » Jun 24th, '07, 16:54

little question about episode 10: :-)
Just wondering if anyone could guess what the genie whisper to Kenzo in episode 10, before the genie says 'Motomeyo...'

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 24th, '07, 19:25

Will someone be doing a play-by-play during the finale for the impatients? onegai shimasu. :)

aznndave
Posts: 15
Joined: Oct 9th, '06, 05:00
Location: NYC, USA

Post by aznndave » Jun 24th, '07, 19:35

not fair!!! i'm only up to ep 4 cuz i want to watch in order...
when is ep 5 & 6 gonna come out? cant wait!!!

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 24th, '07, 20:36

sakurachan wrote: I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"

Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
Is kakeochi a conjugation or inflection of the verb "kakeru" (to run) or is it a noun? If it is "kakeru" why didn't he just say "kakenai" ? Is this another one of those strange non-grammatical idioms? Can you give me the kanji so I could look it up? It's been killing me because I couldn't find it in my jiten. The closest thing I could find is "kakeashi" which is like the double-time in marching. Help me out because I tend to go nuts when I get stumped this long.

sakurachan
Posts: 55
Joined: May 21st, '07, 10:07

Post by sakurachan » Jun 24th, '07, 21:03

joeboygo wrote:
sakurachan wrote: I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"

Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
Is kakeochi a conjugation or inflection of the verb kakeru (to run) or is it a noun? Or is it one of those strange non-grammatical idioms? Can you give me the kanji so I could look it up? It's been killing me because I couldn't find it in my jiten. The closest thing I could find is "kakeashi" which is like the double-time in marching.
I've always thought of it as a set phrase, but I suppose you can think of it as the compound form of the noun form of the two verbs kakeru (駆ける) and ochiru (落ちる). Together, you get kakeochi (駆落ち).

The verb phrase is 駆落ちする. The noun form 駆落ち usually refers to a woman who leaves behind her family either for another man or for some other reasons. I don't ever remember seeing it used for a man though.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 24th, '07, 21:08

sakurachan wrote: I've always thought of it as a set phrase, but I suppose you can think of it as the compound form of the noun form of the two verbs kakeru (駆ける) and ochiru (落ちる). Together, you get kakeochi (駆落ち).

The verb phrase is 駆落ちする. The noun form 駆落ち usually refers to a woman who leaves behind her family either for another man or for some other reasons. I don't ever remember seeing it used for a man though.
Ah thank you, thank you. I have just added to my vocabulary, and you can bet it's going to stick. This is one i'm going to remember. Again, thank you.

Edit: The dictionary classifies it as a noun that takes the auxillary verb suru without the particle "wo". In its verb form, Kakeochisuru means "to elope." Persons engaged in the act of eloping, regardless of gender, are called "kakeochisha" If you take out the last kanji "sha" (person), kakeochi refers to a woman that leaves her husband, but that usage is probably fairly recent or still considered slang, because it is not yet included in my version of the big obunsha, circa 2002. (I do need an update, demo takasugimas yo!). The old meaning of the noun "kakeochi" simply refers to the act of eloping. What remains unclear to me is whether the verb "kakeochisuru" as currently used automatically conveys the connotation of spouse dumping or if it still just means to elope.

I'm nerding out on this because... isn't this word at least mildly insulting then? Is it polite to say it to any married woman's face, particularly your own wife? Also, the way Tada uses it seems to add an extra negative implication. If he was just asking her if she was going to leave him, he would have said "kakeochisuru [ka]" (are you leaving/eloping). But since he appears to say "kakeochishinai [ka]" (won't you leave/elope) doesn't it sound like he's inviting her to dump him? Plus, why "ima kara" (from now) and not "ima ni" or just plain "ima" (now)?

Help.

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 25th, '07, 01:26

Only question I got is this. If the Lord of the Nerds Tada said that, "won't you leave" Why on Earth would he be smiling while saying that. To me that sounds like he is just letting her go which in my opinon is a very lame way to end this drama. I will be extremely upset tonight if that happens. I believe I predicted this was going to happen, that Tada will step aside and that the writters are going to do that old clache "if you really lover her you will let her go" To me that is BULLSHIT! it has been an intresting emotional roller coaster but to end it like that is just plain stupid. Perhaps I have high expectations but after being led on for more than 10 weeks shouldn't I have high expectations for a GRAND FINALE? For it to end that way is just plain insulting.

Well, nonetheless it will air in less than 10 hours. I wonder if this thread is going to be over 120 pages?
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 25th, '07, 01:47, edited 1 time in total.

walroar
Posts: 7
Joined: Jun 14th, '07, 07:30
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Post by walroar » Jun 25th, '07, 01:44

Tada will still mary Rei, and then Ken commit suicide after he failed to change the future 10 times!

lol just kidding!! :P

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 25th, '07, 01:51

Graymouse wrote:Only question I got is this. If the Lord of the Nerds Tada said that, "won't you leave" Why on Earth would he be smiling while saying that. To me that sounds like he is just letting her go which in my opinon is a very lame way to end this drama. I will be extremely upset tonight if that happens. I believe I predicted this was going to happen, that Tada will step aside and that the writters are going to do that old clache "if you really lover her you will let her go" To me that is BULLSHIT! it has been an intresting emotional roller coaster but to end it like that is just plain stupid. Perhaps I have high expectations but after being led on for more than 10 weeks shouldn't I have high expectations for a GRAND FINALE? For it to end that way is just plain insulting.

Well, nonetheless it will air in less than 10 hours.
But graymouse, tell us how you really feel. :lol (I kid, I kid)

Seriously, I'm looking forward to your reactions tonight. I don't think I want to spoil it this time, but I will want to know if you are satisfied, dissatisfied or ticked off. If I may impose upon you one last time, could you preface each update with a graymouse mood meter? I want to be able to plot your emo on a graph for each stage of the show. Onegai shimasu.

I remain confident that the writer and director will give Yamashita-kun the proper hero treatment and give us an ending we will be happy with. They have the highest rated show this season, and they know what the fans are expecting. They also know who these fans are, and should be aware that they probably won't take kindly to a WTF ending.

Given the current Japanese penchant for tuning in only to the beginning and the end of a series, I predict the finale will break the 20% barrier. If it breaks the 25% barrier, I also predict that this will not be the last pairing between Yamashita and Masami. They have the same level of chemistry that Kimutaku had with Matsu Takako, so I'm sure their respective agencies will try to exploit that chemistry to the fullest.

I'm counting the hours!

User avatar
bl00_4ng31
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 11th, '07, 01:43
Location: LA

Post by bl00_4ng31 » Jun 25th, '07, 01:57

@joeboygo: like lunargen said.... awww! :lol i havnt been able to spend that much time in this thread but im very glad that guys have gotten into this drama. and one of my guy friends is really close with me and he's told me a lot of things about his feelings for this girl. so in a way....to see ken-zou keep losing really breaks my heart. (not just for the fact that he's yamapi :lol) but im sure that we're all gonna miss everyone from this thread bunches and bunches. i do wish that i could've spent more time with this thread but i didnt have that much time and i wanted to avoid all spoilers. tehee :lol

ANYWAYSS :] ep 11 is getting closer and closer!! but i've gotta wait for subs so.......t.t i really do hope that no one leaves after monday and that there's still gonna be ppl left here after ep 11 is subbed :lol so i can rant/squeel/discuss!! :lol

oooh they BETTER not give us some random WTF ending that intitates a season 2 (As much as i LOVEE yamapi....the drama's gonna start dragging) and as a true yamapi fan.....he BETTER not lose to tada t.t but i dont even want him with rei (cuz she doesnt deserve him) .....sorry total bashing there :lol
Image
credit:: machibouke@LJ

Graymouse
Posts: 197
Joined: May 5th, '07, 14:52
Location: Sasebo, Japan

Post by Graymouse » Jun 25th, '07, 02:07

:lol Sure, the graymouse o' meter will be running throughout the finale. :D :-) :-( :O :lol 8) :x :P :cry: :blink :unsure: :roll :glare: :crazy: :| :mrgreen: :w00t: :pale: :cheers: :scratch: :salut: :whistling: :thumleft: :thumright: :alcoholic: :goggle: :argue: :cussing:

I can't speak for everyone here in this thread but I will be here after episode 11 airs and a little after the subs are released. After all I would be very intrestest in everyones feelings on the ending.

9 hours to go!

Good luck KENZO! :w00t:

User avatar
bl00_4ng31
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 11th, '07, 01:43
Location: LA

Post by bl00_4ng31 » Jun 25th, '07, 02:23

yayyy for Graymouse! :lol :lol

i'd love to be able to discuss everything with everyone!! i just gotta wait VERY PATIENTLY for ep 11 along with the subs but MUCH MUCH LOVE AND THANKS TO LUNARGEN :lol

like Graymouse said....GOOOO KENZOU!!! :cheers: :lol :wub:
Image
credit:: machibouke@LJ

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Jun 25th, '07, 02:43

I too, think this topic ought to have at least a couple of days' worth of fat to chew before the time to move on arrives. This is a rare alignment of the planets and we don't know if or when it will happen again, so I'm in no hurry to bug out.

Graymouse, I share your concerns, but I don't think that scenario is likely. It's up to Rei to decide who she wants to be with and Tada can't make that decision for her. The script has clearly defined Rei as an independent and strong willed person who decides things for herself. So even if Tada tells her to go, she won't unless she wants to. And if she wants out, she will leave with or without Tada's blessings. I don't think the script writer will make such an amateurish mistake as to have one of his main characters act so out of character at the last minute.

That's why I think this episode will be Masami's star turn - her character is the center of gravity around which the entire plot will pivot. Who will she choose, and how will she decide? I don't think anybody here can say for sure, but it's reassuring that we could not have asked for a more skillful actress than Masami to convey the subtle nuances of Rei's climactic struggle to resolve her internal conflicts, leading to the final conclusion of the entire series.

That stupid broad had better not pick Tada. :cussing:

User avatar
bl00_4ng31
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 11th, '07, 01:43
Location: LA

Post by bl00_4ng31 » Jun 25th, '07, 03:11

joeboygo wrote: That stupid broad had better not pick Tada. :cussing:
AGREEE AGREEE :lol
Image
credit:: machibouke@LJ

hadmish
Posts: 92
Joined: Jun 18th, '06, 02:42
Location: somewhere desperately missing Japan

Post by hadmish » Jun 25th, '07, 04:04

hey did you guys just watch waratte iitomo on TV? (you - as in Japan.....)
YamaP and Masami were just there, as I predicted and I was looking for clues and then just as YamaP spoke holding the poster for the last ep, my stupid phone rang and bothered me! (needless to say I didnt pick it up, ha ha) but I missed what he said....did he give any clues?

damnit I was only watching it to get some clues.

love this thread and your comments btw. I will be on after the ep airs tonight to rea what you guys think....ha ha.

PS- I like Yamap's new hairstyle better.......

User avatar
daisukides
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 2nd, '07, 12:43
Location: Japan

Post by daisukides » Jun 25th, '07, 04:45

hadmish wrote:
PS- I like Yamap's new hairstyle better.......
What new hairstyle? Did he color it black already?
ImageImage
gif made by bakki :thumright:

hadmish
Posts: 92
Joined: Jun 18th, '06, 02:42
Location: somewhere desperately missing Japan

Post by hadmish » Jun 25th, '07, 04:53

uhm, its really hard to explain!
its darker for sure, but not black. it has a few highlights (but not really blond) and its the same in the front,
on top its kinda short.....and in the back similar to what it was.

did I mention hard to explain? should've said impossible. Im sure someone will upload it somewhere.

just a few more hours......

User avatar
daisukides
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 2nd, '07, 12:43
Location: Japan

Post by daisukides » Jun 25th, '07, 04:55

hmmmm, sounds cool. I'm sure I'll see it soon :thumright:
ImageImage
gif made by bakki :thumright:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest