[Discussion] Proposal Daisakusen (Operation Love)

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joeboygo
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Post by joeboygo » May 18th, '07, 14:28

belleza wrote: Episode 4 did the best job, so far, of revealing Ken. It's the first time I really understood him, how unable he is to really enjoy dancing in the moment, even if that he already know the exact choreography of that moment. He seems as paralyzed as he was then. And it's hard for me to empathize with his hormonal, silly disposition as a high schooler, or his morose self-pity as a man. It's hard because he still has little insight into her own self-absorption. His desperation seems more palpable now, but his negative self-talk from an adult among kids is especially grating.
Only the oblivious can live the present with such abandon. Dancing in the moment is what Ken did the first time around, and he knows only too well how great things turned out as a result. That paralysis you sense is actually the full weight of the destitute present ass-squatting on Ken's consciousness as he re-lives the past.
belleza wrote: Episode 4 was a wonderful character study of "the writer." To me, Ken revealed the one gift that could melt the ice between them, and right now he doesn't realize it. However incapable he is, however locked into an inert cycle of adolescent/adult ADD, Ken the writer seems to escape that. Well chosen words, humble, and exceptionally tender.

...So, now, I'm looking at Ken's misadventure from the sensibility of a would-be writer, silly and goofily lost in the present, but a deep lover of personal history and the narrative of "special moments." If only Ken can share this with Rei, if only he can express her denial and frustration over their impossible intimacy, if only he can cross over from the pools of her disappointinment . . .
The "Ken as writer" paradigm is intriguing as an analytical tool, but it doesn't really work for me because he does not possess the cut and paste editorial discretion over his universe that a real writer would have over his works. Ken does not so much script events as much as events still happen to Ken. When Ken's story is finally redone, he will still have to attribute authorship to the divine.

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Post by Graymouse » May 18th, '07, 14:32

tritochjay wrote:@lunargen - two people QCing doesn't hurt :D

---
Err I believe that Rei is actually doing the work before and the time shifter Ken basically follows up where old ken forgot. So its not about meeting in the middle, its about new Ken catching up.
(please don't take this the wrong way I am not yelling or saying you are wrong...this is my humble opinion)

@tritochjay- Intresting......If you put yourself in Ken's position....with what happened in episode 2 with Ken birthday present do you honestly think that you would have found her present if you didn't know anything about the future? Ken had to use his knowledge from the future to find her present in the past. I think that is crazy! If Rei expects Ken to read her mind then Rei needs to do some growing up herself. Thats what I mean by meeting in the middle. You can't put 100% of the blame in Ken for missing the hints that Rei was giving out. Or am I missing something?
Last edited by Graymouse on May 18th, '07, 14:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Graymouse » May 18th, '07, 14:35

tritochjay wrote:@lunargen - two people QCing doesn't hurt :D


And like I have been saying again again, the scene that the new ken is having (the flashback with Rei telling him that he doesn't understand), is still out there. There's got to be a clincher that the old Ken missed and thus why Rei ended up with Tada.
I thought that flashback was events that happened the same night that the "first" graduation picture was taking. Or right before their college years. In the next episode that flashback scene is no longer there.

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Post by ryoko11 » May 18th, '07, 14:55

Graymouse wrote:Oh nonone mentioned about Hisashi and Eri. It is obvious that Hisashi doesn't hide his feeling for Eri at all. I mean with the 4 foot " I love Eri" signed that he wrote in white chalk on the PE grounds says it all. However, I am curious to know if the writters are going to bring Hisashi and Eri together? Infact I think that Hisashi should teach Ken how to take more agressive steps and express his love to Rei.

On another note....Whille we are speculating Anyone? Do you think that if the teacher had not snap that picture when they were standing outside their school at the moment that Ken was going to tell Rei that he "suki"! Do you think Ken would of finished his sentence. That was a perfect time to possible confess and change the future. (of course the drama couldn't end in four episodes) Whats is everyones take on that?
I think we all know that Eri doth protest too much. For as much as she pretends to ignore or belittle Tsuru's attempts, she sure went out of her way to get him back from Cameron. He was the only one to rush to Eri's side, and she looked completely pleased with that victory alone. That's the scene that really makes me think there's a chance there. She isn't reciprocating, but she sure isn't letting him go either. Eri strikes me as the one who is most guilty of taking the one who loves her for granted. I'd love to see her get a little wake-up call on that. While Tsuru is more than worthy of her, she needs to show that she's at least a little worthy of him too. :P

I think that his saying "Suki" wouldn't have really changed the future. They might have gone out for a bit, but Ken still needed to be in a more mature place before a relationship between them could last, imo.

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Post by joeboygo » May 18th, '07, 15:00

belleza wrote:
Honestly, it could make things worse. The problem is that Ken probably didn't follow up on his new-found maturity, and so Rei would pick up that his sudden burst of maturity and heart-on-sleeve sincerity was a wrinkle with him. Or in other words, Rei is starting to think "I just don't get Ken. He's so stupid but then sometimes he can be so amazing if he only he tries!"
Bear in mind that time-bender Ken currently exists in some kind of "meta-present" where the "original past" is currently unfolding as it is remade into the "improved past" and the "new present." The original past is no longer "past" in the sense of a fixed historical chronology because it has become indeterminate. In other words, it really hasn't happened yet, and exists only in ghost form as a quasi-memory in Ken's mind. There is no real "present" yet, because you can't stand on the 10th story penthouse until the ground floor has been built. The "meta-present" which only Ken and the fairy can perceive is just a place holder, a temporary way station outside of time-space where Ken and the fairy (and us) can get real-time feedback as Ken repeatedly rewinds reality and makes things happen or unhappen.

Viewed in this light, there is no distinction between "past ken" and "present ken," there is only one Ken for all scrambled time, experiencing the "improved past" simultaneously with the "old present" and working for a happier "new present" in the... err...future(?)!
belleza wrote:[I'm not for Ken winning Rei over. I'm more for her undersanding her better, and only then to open up the doors for love. And in turn she has to do the same. She has to change too. And if not, maybe she was better with Tada after all. Maybe that will be the lesson Ken eventually learns.
That would, in my mind, reduce this entire operation to a pointless excursion in masochistic nostalgia, would it not? What redemption or meaning is there in re-experiencing a shared past bereft of a shared future? All that does is remind you that you are now, and ever will be that much poorer for your loss. And that's what ordinary folks like us do when we have trouble moving on, don't we? Where's the fantasy there? For Ken there will not come again another Rei to whom he can apply the benefits of his sad past recollected. If all Ken needed to do was learn from his mistakes and reconcile himself to forever losing Rei, then neither butt-ugly fairy nor time-travel is necessary; long-term recall will suffice. For me, this is about the magic of letting Ken do what nobody else ever gets to do - remake the past with the wisdom of the future. Fairy ass-face better come through for me, or I will seriously book a flight to Japan just to kick his ass.
belleza wrote:Fujita > Yamapi. You marry Fujita; you have one last fling at your wedding with Yamapi. :D I'd take Tada over Ken in a heartbeat, and so would Eri and probably Cameron. Oh sure, Tada is a worldclass dork, but he also looks at Rei straight in her eyes. Something that emo boy Ken still hasn't done but a few times. Tada's thank yous are warm and unpretentious. I would really respond do that; so does Rei.
I'm no good judge of masculine beauty or sexual appeal because, duh, I'm not the target consumer for such stuff. But it's becoming apparent that many of our female viewers are having trouble separating Fujiki the actor from the character he plays on screen. I suffer no such constraints, and setting aside for a moment that Tada is Fujiki in reality, I have a real problem with a university professor hooking up with a student of his that he also taught while she was in high school. It's not really the age gap. It's the whole authority figure/position of trust issue. It leads me to question why he had trouble hooking up with females closer to him in professional status and maturity. I know it's not fair to bring this into the discussion because the dorama hasn't set it up properly, but I have seen too many such cases in real life, and almost 100% of the time, there's a creep factor involved. And if you think Ken is slow, get a load of this guy. At the time he guest lectured at their high school, he was already older than Ken or Rei were at the time of the wedding. Why was this guy hiding under a rock for so long, and why did it take a high school girl to wake him up? Straaaange. Moreoever, how far would Ken have gotten if he had been given as much time?

I have more thoughts on Tada-san but I'll discuss those with you after you answer me this: do you think Rei said anything dishonest to her husband at the end of Epsiode 4, and if so, how big a whopper do you think it was?

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Post by seeshu » May 18th, '07, 17:39

joeboygo wrote: I'm no good judge of masculine beauty or sexual appeal because, duh, I'm not the target consumer for such stuff. But it's becoming apparent that many of our female viewers are having trouble separating Fujiki the actor from the character he plays on screen. I suffer no such constraints, and setting aside for a moment that Tada is Fujiki in reality, I have a real problem with a university professor hooking up with a student of his that he also taught while she was in high school. It's not really the age gap. It's the whole authority figure/position of trust issue. It leads me to question why he had trouble hooking up with females closer to him in professional status and maturity. I know it's not fair to bring this into the discussion because the dorama hasn't set it up properly, but I have seen too many such cases in real life, and almost 100% of the time, there's a creep factor involved. And if you think Ken is slow, get a load of this guy. At the time he guest lectured at their high school, he was already older than Ken or Rei were at the time of the wedding. Why was this guy hiding under a rock for so long, and why did it take a high school girl to wake him up? Straaaange. Moreoever, how far would Ken have gotten if he had been given as much time?
This is a otally random post, but I agree 100% with what you said above. The age gap between Rei and Tada don't really bother me, but it is just a little odd that Tada was her high school teacher. Granted, he was only her teacher for a few weeks, but he was her teacher nonetheless.

I also think that Rei and Ken need to meet each other halfway. Ken does seem like a hapless, clueless guy but honestly some of Rei's "hints" are really difficult to follow. As a girl, I think that the most direct way of confessing your love (essentially saying it to the other's face) is the best way. Of course, it takes a lot of courage -- but I think it's what I like the most about this show. Everybody can relate to the "one that got away" and how scary it is to love somebody openly. The way that Ken handled things in Ep. 4 was great -- and yeah, how can Rei not pick up on that clue that Ken likes her? It was basically an anvil!

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Post by ittiou » May 18th, '07, 17:49

...just kind of curious, what kind of character is hiraoka yuuta's character in this drama?

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Post by Linh[hyd=3] » May 18th, '07, 18:17

Episod 4 is in my opinion, the best & more interesting episode I saw of the 4 one.
I hope that the next episodes will be as good as the 4 (or better !!!)

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Post by belleza » May 18th, '07, 18:48

What gets me the most is that after Episode 4 there should be no doubt in Rei mind that Ken has romantic feelings for her. If she doesn't then Rei needs to do a lot of growing up herself.
Mmm . . . you would think so, and probably Eri mentioned to Rei that only somebody who liked her would express such things . . . but I don't think Rei knew how to read it. This was Rei's first "maybe" romance too, meaning she had an awareness of her own feelings, but no good idea where those feelings should take Ken.

And, so, there are both realistic and unrealistic expectations. Realistic in the sense that she wishes Ken could reciprocate, if not his feelings per se, but that at least Ken felt their friendship was special, that he too felt the their history. Which he did. However, Rei had also hoped that he could help her figure out what relationship they could have. Obviously he was not ready for that.

Rei's personality is a little passive aggressive, and you can tell even in the present, she doesn't handle her personal life with the same upfront honest that her BFF Eri does. In that sense, both Ken and Rei were and are much alike; neither seems to know how to have a honest conversation about love.

In Ken's defense, this also reflects why you don't see a lot of same age couples. Just because Rei is growing up a little faster than Ken doesn't mean Rei is actually more mature and more ready than he was at this. She needed time too and probably somebody who already had experience with relationships or relating to women. Then again, isn't that true for everybody? :)

We have an idea of how Rei feels, but we don't know what Rei wants. I think present Ken's mistake is that he's assuming too many things, and that the recurring lesson from his adventures is that, rather than just showing Rei how he feels, he needs to find out how she felt.
Regardless of the ending I think that is what the "writers" wanted to convey to the audience.
I like how the writers have kinda focused on different aspects of Ken, Rei, and Tada with each episode. Episode 4 spoke to me about Ken. Episode 3 was about Tada.

I mean, I'd be REALLY surprised if Ken doesn't "get da girl", being that this is a Yamapi/Masami vehicle. All the writers need to do is build a case for them without making it look like Ken's "cheating", and so far they've done well with that.

@ktamashi
<<don>>

Yeah. Ken was her first love. Tada is probably the guy she settled on. It's not fair to either guy but hey it keeps the show interesting! :D

<< I think she's doing the "look at me now, look what you missed out on," thing but she probably would drop Tada like a bad habit if Ken made a significant move then and there. >>

I'm kinda hoping for and dreading the Graduate moment. Somehow the day is "rebooted" and Rei is still marrying Tada, but now Ken hijacks their wedding and woohoo kick in the Simon and Garfunkel!!!

<< how are they going to use that theme song at the end if ken doesn't get with rei? >>

Yeah, but even the sad Southern All Star songs kinda sound like this. The lyrics have a lot of regret and questioning in them.
She is an amazingly talented young adult whose future seems very bright! I am looking forward to finishing this series and looking forward to see her in her next role whatever that might be.
I think for me, she's sorta been on "junaipilot." Not her fault -- her acting has been great, but it's a role she's done many times. Same can be said with Takayuki Yamada. In fact, Masami's next movie (next month in fact) will be against Yamada in another junai story. Their vibe is really similar to their work in Dragon Zakura -- he's too cool for school and kinda thick, she's in love with him but doesn't say anything. She plays off Yamapi as well as if not better than any actress I've seen with him, and makes Ken credible as the romantic hero. This story kinda rests on whether Yamapi can make the audience fall for Ken .

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Post by auroragb » May 18th, '07, 19:36

I love how this drama is causing such insightful discussions. I don't think any other drama has ever done that in d-addicts.

This drama is like a Japanese version of butterfly effect or donnie darko, but much happier. I also love how this is an original drama. While I enjoy the manga adaptations, I think that this shows that people still want original work (highest renzoku ratings in the past two wks, discounting the series that go for more than one season)
joeboygo wrote:
belleza wrote:
Honestly, it could make things worse. The problem is that Ken probably didn't follow up on his new-found maturity, and so Rei would pick up that his sudden burst of maturity and heart-on-sleeve sincerity was a wrinkle with him. Or in other words, Rei is starting to think "I just don't get Ken. He's so stupid but then sometimes he can be so amazing if he only he tries!"
<snip>
Viewed in this light, there is no distinction between "past ken" and "present ken," there is only one Ken for all scrambled time, experiencing the "improved past" simultaneously with the "old present" and working for a happier "new present" in the... err...future(?)!
Agree, the "past ken" remembered the chocolate milk, so the old ken does remember when "present ken" did in the past.
joeboygo wrote:
belleza wrote:I'm not for Ken winning Rei over. I'm more for her understanding her better, and only then to open up the doors for love. And in turn she has to do the same. She has to change too. And if not, maybe she was better with Tada after all. Maybe that will be the lesson Ken eventually learns.
That would, in my mind, reduce this entire operation to a pointless excursion in masochistic nostalgia, would it not? What redemption or meaning is there in re-experiencing a shared past bereft of a shared future? All that does is remind you that you are now, and ever will be that much poorer for your loss. And that's what ordinary folks like us do when we have trouble moving on, don't we? Where's the fantasy there? For Ken there will not come again another Rei to whom he can apply the benefits of his sad past recollected. If all Ken needed to do was learn from his mistakes and reconcile himself to forever losing Rei, then neither butt-ugly fairy nor time-travel is necessary; long-term recall will suffice. For me, this is about the magic of letting Ken do what nobody else ever gets to do - remake the past with the wisdom of the future. Fairy ass-face better come through for me, or I will seriously book a flight to Japan just to kick his ass.
While I agree that fairy ass-face better come thru or I'll join you on that flight for a little ass-kicking, I think that Rei must also change for things to really work between Ken and Rei. Otherwise, it would be shallow no matter how satisfying the ending might be.

Personally, I think that the ending will be dangling. I think that the marriage might not come to be between Rei and Tada, but neither the future of Ken and Rei would be certain.
joeboygo wrote:
belleza wrote:Fujita > Yamapi. You marry Fujita; you have one last fling at your wedding with Yamapi. :D I'd take Tada over Ken in a heartbeat, and so would Eri and probably Cameron. Oh sure, Tada is a worldclass dork, but he also looks at Rei straight in her eyes. Something that emo boy Ken still hasn't done but a few times. Tada's thank yous are warm and unpretentious. I would really respond do that; so does Rei.
<snip>
At the time he guest lectured at their high school, he was already older than Ken or Rei were at the time of the wedding. Why was this guy hiding under a rock for so long, and why did it take a high school girl to wake him up? Straaaange. Moreoever, how far would Ken have gotten if he had been given as much time?
I agree that there might be a creep factor. But, it's conventional wisdom that men mature slower than women emotionally. So, I suspend my disbelief and assumed the premise of the story. Given more time, Ken might have caught on without the wake up call, but they'd probably be 40 by then. Rei's bio clock didn't want to wait 20 more years for what might be...
joeboygo wrote:I have more thoughts on Tada-san but I'll discuss those with you after you answer me this: do you think Rei said anything dishonest to her husband at the end of Epsiode 4, and if so, how big a whopper do you think it was?
I didn't get how it was a lie, she just called Ken strange for giving her that, unless u meant something else?

btw @belleza
LoL @ Hallelujah nobuta power!

edit:
belleza wrote:In Ken's defense, this also reflects why you don't see a lot of same age couples. Just because Rei is growing up a little faster than Ken doesn't mean Rei is actually more mature and more ready than he was at this. She needed time too and probably somebody who already had experience with relationships or relating to women. Then again, isn't that true for everybody? :)
given how dense tada is, I have trouble seeing him as "somebody who already had experience with relationships or relating to women". No matter how much he's able to look at Rei straight in the eye
Jdrama Chinese fansub index 2006 | 2007

tritochjay
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Post by tritochjay » May 18th, '07, 20:39

@tritochjay- Intresting......If you put yourself in Ken's position....with what happened in episode 2 with Ken birthday present do you honestly think that you would have found her present if you didn't know anything about the future? Ken had to use his knowledge from the future to find her present in the past. I think that is crazy! If Rei expects Ken to read her mind then Rei needs to do some growing up herself. Thats what I mean by meeting in the middle. You can't put 100% of the blame in Ken for missing the hints that Rei was giving out. Or am I missing something?
Ken is to blame 100% for missing out the first time. Nothing is new in episode, it was just Ken catching on to Rei's hints- Well all I'm saying is that Rei's actions in both pasts (old ken, new ken) is the same she did the same thing, and why would you half blame her for doing something like that? Old ken was an insensitive idiot to miss out the CD hint plus Rei reactiing when Tsuru wanted to borrow it. (Take note: If the old Ken did gave the CD to Tsuru, Rei would have been sulking all day.. Rei only felt disappointed when old Ken asked for the birthday gift.)

Aside from the coffee milk quest new Ken did, nothing else was modified- everything was in place as it happened in the past.

(heck, new Ken even almost missed the hint too..)

Episode 2 is vastly different from the other episodes so far hence...

Sometimes I overanalyze stuff so sorry for sounding so objective about this :D

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Post by Graymouse » May 18th, '07, 23:43

tritochjay wrote:
@tritochjay- Intresting......If you put yourself in Ken's position....with what happened in episode 2 with Ken birthday present do you honestly think that you would have found her present if you didn't know anything about the future? Ken had to use his knowledge from the future to find her present in the past. I think that is crazy! If Rei expects Ken to read her mind then Rei needs to do some growing up herself. Thats what I mean by meeting in the middle. You can't put 100% of the blame in Ken for missing the hints that Rei was giving out. Or am I missing something?
Ken is to blame 100% for missing out the first time. Nothing is new in episode, it was just Ken catching on to Rei's hints- Well all I'm saying is that Rei's actions in both pasts (old ken, new ken) is the same she did the same thing, and why would you half blame her for doing something like that? Old ken was an insensitive idiot to miss out the CD hint plus Rei reactiing when Tsuru wanted to borrow it. (Take note: If the old Ken did gave the CD to Tsuru, Rei would have been sulking all day.. Rei only felt disappointed when old Ken asked for the birthday gift.)

Aside from the coffee milk quest new Ken did, nothing else was modified- everything was in place as it happened in the past.

(heck, new Ken even almost missed the hint too..)

Episode 2 is vastly different from the other episodes so far hence...

Sometimes I overanalyze stuff so sorry for sounding so objective about this :D
@tritochjay- I believe in Episode 2 Ken changed a lot. It becomes really apparent in Episode 5. Because Rei remember certain events that happened and a brought a beautiful smile to her face.

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Post by ryoko11 » May 19th, '07, 00:06

tritochjay wrote: Ken is to blame 100% for missing out the first time. Nothing is new in episode, it was just Ken catching on to Rei's hints- Well all I'm saying is that Rei's actions in both pasts (old ken, new ken) is the same she did the same thing, and why would you half blame her for doing something like that? Old ken was an insensitive idiot to miss out the CD hint plus Rei reactiing when Tsuru wanted to borrow it. (Take note: If the old Ken did gave the CD to Tsuru, Rei would have been sulking all day.. Rei only felt disappointed when old Ken asked for the birthday gift.)

Aside from the coffee milk quest new Ken did, nothing else was modified- everything was in place as it happened in the past.

(heck, new Ken even almost missed the hint too..)

Episode 2 is vastly different from the other episodes so far hence...

Sometimes I overanalyze stuff so sorry for sounding so objective about this :D
Actually, giving a personal interpretion is subjective rather than objective. :salut:

Anyhow, I disagree 100% about Ken being in the wrong in that episode. Rei immediately covered her motive for objecting to the CD loan by accusing Tsuru of not taking care of things that were loaned to him. She didn't give Ken any hint there to let him know the CD was important. By saying that she went out of her way to downplay the fact that the CD was important!

Also, by saying the coffee milk is the only difference you're making the assumption that Ken listened to the CD that day the first time around. We have no scene or flashback to suggest that he did. It's far more likely that he didn't, and that's why he never found the obscure clue she'd tuck away in the liner notes the first time. Remember his reaction when he sees that note? He'd never seen it before.

It wasn't any hint from Rei that led him to the note this second time around either. He only figured out that it wasn't some insignificant scribble because he had prior knowledge of her being angry and his not receiving a present.

The reason I blame Rei in this instance is the fact that she didn't really give Ken clues. She decided to test him without his knowledge, and then she got upset when he couldn't read her mind. That's completely immature behavior on her part, but it is not uncommon for an 18 year old girl to make stupid mistakes like that. Rei was being an insensitive idiot for making Ken's birthday into a test.

Ken is frequently in the wrong during their moments of trouble, but I'm not about to blame him for Rei's mistakes too.

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Post by fastat3m » May 19th, '07, 00:54

ryoko11 wrote:
tritochjay wrote: Ken is to blame 100% for missing out the first time. Nothing is new in episode, it was just Ken catching on to Rei's hints- Well all I'm saying is that Rei's actions in both pasts (old ken, new ken) is the same she did the same thing, and why would you half blame her for doing something like that? Old ken was an insensitive idiot to miss out the CD hint plus Rei reactiing when Tsuru wanted to borrow it. (Take note: If the old Ken did gave the CD to Tsuru, Rei would have been sulking all day.. Rei only felt disappointed when old Ken asked for the birthday gift.)

Aside from the coffee milk quest new Ken did, nothing else was modified- everything was in place as it happened in the past.

(heck, new Ken even almost missed the hint too..)

Episode 2 is vastly different from the other episodes so far hence...

Sometimes I overanalyze stuff so sorry for sounding so objective about this :D
Actually, giving a personal interpretion is subjective rather than objective. :salut:

Anyhow, I disagree 100% about Ken being in the wrong in that episode. Rei immediately covered her motive for objecting to the CD loan by accusing Tsuru of not taking care of things that were loaned to him. She didn't give Ken any hint there to let him know the CD was important. By saying that she went out of her way to downplay the fact that the CD was important!

Also, by saying the coffee milk is the only difference you're making the assumption that Ken listened to the CD that day the first time around. We have no scene or flashback to suggest that he did. It's far more likely that he didn't, and that's why he never found the obscure clue she'd tuck away in the liner notes the first time. Remember his reaction when he sees that note? He'd never seen it before.

It wasn't any hint from Rei that led him to the note this second time around either. He only figured out that it wasn't some insignificant scribble because he had prior knowledge of her being angry and his not receiving a present.

The reason I blame Rei in this instance is the fact that she didn't really give Ken clues. She decided to test him without his knowledge, and then she got upset when he couldn't read her mind. That's completely immature behavior on her part, but it is not uncommon for an 18 year old girl to make stupid mistakes like that. Rei was being an insensitive idiot for making Ken's birthday into a test.

Ken is frequently in the wrong during their moments of trouble, but I'm not about to blame him for Rei's mistakes too.
I wouldn't call it a stupid mistake, but it was probably a mistake. I don't know if she was testing him, but just trying to find a way to say it without saying it directly to his face. Some people are just not that great at expressing their feelings. She may have been scared of rejection or messing up their friendship. Things are never black and white, there are many factors that one must consider before acting. However, I don't think its anyones fault, because when things happen in the moment, people react naturally. It is easy to look back and say you made a mistake once you see the outcome, but when your in the moment, you do what you think is best. I'll be honest, I would probably would have made the same mistakes as both of them when i was in high school. Actually, I probably still would make the same mistakes. I was thinking, what kind of wedding pictures did Eri choose. Who would choose so many pictures of the bride being angry?

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belleza
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Post by belleza » May 19th, '07, 01:14

I love how this drama is causing such insightful discussions. I don't think any other drama has ever done that in d-addicts.
I was actually much, much worse for HanaDan. :D

I don't know . . . as much as I enjoy the story itself, ProDai for me really has been about watching Tomahisa and Masami play off each other again. The junai story is done well, and particularly they kept the tone light and happy. This probably would have done better in the winter time, because it very much feels like a "Christmas" drama. Fun, fun show. Plus the music makes me wanna dance.

My hunch is the story structure will significantly change in the last third of the show. I don't think the "see a photo, eat a shrimp, Hallelejah chance!" plot has enough legs for 11 episodes. And, uhm, isn't asking an actress to fit in a tailored wedding gown for 2 months unnecessary torture?
I agree that there might be a creep factor. But, it's conventional wisdom that men mature slower than women emotionally. So, I suspend my disbelief and assumed the premise of the story. Given more time, Ken might have caught on without the wake up call, but they'd probably be 40 by then.
The age gap in the story -- if not the "loli teacher" implications -- is fairly acceptable. Rei's about 23 or so, and he's probably around 30. The casting itself is what makes people go "huh?!?" Naohito is 15 years Masami's senior, and she isn't even 20 years old yet. And in fact, two of his recent shows involved him playing a decidely nonromantic, sempai/oppa role against other idol actresses like Erika Sawajiri and Toda Erika. Now he's in love with one of them? Could you see Naohito paired with a Maki Horikita?

I think, so far, it's worked because the casting has pretty much put Junai princess against #1 Johnny Boy vs. Former Top Eligibile Bachelor. Both guys make heats flutter, albeit in almost mutually exclusive demographics. If anything, ProDai, like Hana Yori Dango, is a little self-conscious about its idol billing. The show's been really generous about its connection with previous Yamapi shows, as if it wants to wink at the audience "yeah, OUR show is the first one where you'll see Yamapi go kissy kissy woo woo!"
Well all I'm saying is that Rei's actions in both pasts (old ken, new ken) is the same she did the same thing, and why would you half blame her for doing something like that?
I felt it was unfair for Ken too. Rei's little Easter Hunt was cute, but a little contrived, and even her friend Eri told her as such.

And in a way, episode 2 also revealed Rei in the same way Episode 4 reveals Ken. She gives Ken hints, but it's also like she -- at this point in her growth process -- wanted Ken to climb the castle without telling him that she's been locked away. Because, she in her own heart, is not sure what a relationship with Ken is what she really wants. At that time, she doesn't even know what a romantic relationship is.

I feel Eri and Rei probably saw relationships the same way. Where Eri treat it as an extension of her most popular girl shtick, Rei kinda wears it with a passive-aggressive groove. Eri tells her to be more proactive, to help Ken out. But Eri is not mature enough to help her sort out her feelings, which is what Rei really wants somebody to do for her.

As high school Rei said, Ken and Rei grew up in the same classrooms, but they were not bonded to the hip like most idealized childhood "couples." That's important to emphasize; Ken and Rei ALWAYS squabbled and had problems understanding and communicating with each other; Ken and Rei ALWAYS saw the same things in a very different light; Ken and Rei were never serious or vulnerable around each other. In Rei's eyes, they were neither here nor there; Ken was her oldest friend, but not her closest friend.

And in fact, their neither nor there quality is pretty strong grounds for romantic attraction. They know each other well but not that well. They misunderstand each other a lot but they seem well aware of their misunderstandings. Their grey ground is their romantic bubble.
Ken does not so much script events as much as events still happen to Ken. When Ken's story is finally redone, he will still have to attribute authorship to the divine.
But, Ken has been perpetually editorializing himself through the entire show. His wedding chatter about "wishing to do it all again" was probably itself a habit he's carried on for awhile about her, perhaps indulging the "if I can do it all again, this is exactly how I would do it." And when he fails to do exactly that, he's already thinking about the narrative thread of his misadventure against that picture.

That itself fits the Walter Mitty model of writer fairly well. When it came to Rei, he had the rich inner life, so much so, that he didn't expend much energy in her daily interactions with her. He cries about the grief, but he himself stole away his own chances.

That said, I only started to think that way because the first episode seemed to hint that writing or public speaking had become part of present Ken's vocation or reputation. When they asked him to deliver his speech, there was some anticipation among friends of it being actually good (a wedding toast that doesn't go on forever, what a concept! :D ) And, so, I partially interpreted Episode 4 as foreshadowing Ken's talent burgeoning in his college years.
The "meta-present" which only Ken and the fairy can perceive is just a place holder, a temporary way station outside of time-space where Ken and the fairy (and us) can get real-time feedback as Ken repeatedly rewinds reality and makes things happen or unhappen.
Oh I agree -- and I know a lot of us are discussing the disconnect between Ken's "false present" and the story's butterfly effect implications -- BUT I think the show has taken Rei as a blackbox of inarticulate desire anyway. We don't know what and how Rei feels for Ken, because we don't know her side of the story. But, for now, we can establish a baseline for her behaviour, and then discern changes from that reference. We see Rei seems more uncomfortable around Tada as the new photos come out. We see Rei look more pensively toward Ken's direction. We don't know how she felt now, but we can sense whatever she's feeling, it's -- angry, happy, frustrated, curious -- is becoming more for Ken.
That would, in my mind, reduce this entire operation to a pointless excursion in masochistic nostalgia, would it not? What redemption or meaning is there in re-experiencing a shared past bereft of a shared future?
Masochistic nostalgia is the basis for a lot of junai stories, and it's a common trope of time travel stories involving family or romance. At this point, we don't know whether the Angel wants Ken to change the future, or to recognize his present. We know that this wonderful opportunity is wearing on Ken heavier and heavier.

Ken wants to substantiate his desire. He assumed she shared in his desire. As the episode go, he is starting to question that, because now he has to put himself in her shoes, and to really understand where Rei was coming from. After all, present Rei told present Ken that he still didn't get it.

Likewise, Rei wanted somebody else to articulate her desire. She assumed if Ken felt the same way, she wouldn't have to put herself out there. As we watch each episode, we see that Rei was not sure what she wanted either, and that probably she also complicated her friendship with Ken too. Tada may be the wrong guy for her,
but she went into that without the same doubletalk.
And that's what ordinary folks like us do when we have trouble moving on, don't we?
It's deeply, deeply painful. And I feel bad for Ken, because when he's been reliving the past, he still struggles to move beyond the past. He sees how they are and it hurt him a little. He sees how he screwed up, and it takes awhile for him to get out of that mental funk and actually right the ship.

But, part of his pain is also in not fully accepting or understanding where the other person stood. Rei never met him halfway, and had that heart-to-heart about her feelings and frustrations with him. Instead, it looks like, she tried once, but it turned into a her putting the blame on him, and her trying to absolving her guilt over marrying somebody else. As if to say "you screwed up Ken, and now I'm spending the rest of my life with somebody else." It doesn't looked like she ever told him her history with him.

I think what I see in the last 4 episodes is that of a man, not limited by the practical circumstances of Angel's gift but his own limitations as a human being and her limitations as well. Ken isn't Hishashi; Rei isn't Eri. Ken has a gift for words, but he cannot say the simplest three. Ken pines for Rei in the dark, but he also seems curiously lax when they're actually alone. Ken deeply loves Rei; Ken doesn't understand Rei.

The beauty of the story, for me, is how he's struggling to move outside of his comfort space, out of what he thought he could do. He'll never be like Hishashi and throw sheets to the wind, but his efforts in being more open like him speaks to the sincerity of his love for Rei. He's struggling to change just a little bit -- and realistically, it can only be mere shades from her familiarity of him -- in order to make her love him. It's like Nobuta in that respect; Nobuta doesn't become the most cheery, outgoing girl at school by the end of the show, but the progress she moved from her previous disposition spoke to her personal courage and the effect of her friendships.

Hopefully we'll see Rei start some kind of transformation too. It'll be a shame for Ken to walk 500 miles for her love whereas Rei not even stand up from her wedding seat.
do you think Rei said anything dishonest to her husband at the end of Epsiode 4, and if so, how big a whopper do you think it was?
Believe me -- it's not uncommon to kinda "white lie" to guys about one's love life. :D
Ken is frequently in the wrong during their moments of trouble, but I'm not about to blame him for Rei's mistakes too.
Yeah, and I think it miscolours the story to think Ken x Rei will (can?) be solved by Ken alone, divine goatee guy or no. And, see, Ken in believing that it was 100% his fault, also believes that it was 100% in his hands to make their relationship happen. I don't think he ever had that kind of say with her, not as much as he pretends to be.
Actually, I probably still would make the same mistakes. I was thinking, what kind of wedding pictures did Eri choose. Who would choose so many pictures of the bride being angry?
Eri is not the sharpest girl, ne? :D But then again, she's pissed Rei stole her man. Ahem.

I'd like to believe she was always looking for the possibility of Rei and Ken too. And it might have crept into the photos.

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Post by tritochjay » May 19th, '07, 01:30

zomg walls of text. I feel dizzy! :D

I think Eri was a Rei x Ken shipper :)

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Post by Gorahgurl » May 19th, '07, 04:16

One thing that's been driving me nuts~ is..are they planning to release an OST of this dorama? I love the music in it. xD

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Post by lunargen » May 19th, '07, 05:03

Actually, I probably still would make the same mistakes. I was thinking, what kind of wedding pictures did Eri choose. Who would choose so many pictures of the bride being angry?
perused through the, as trichtojay quite aptly put, walls of text, and so far found this to be enough of interest to reply to. (not that im saying that all you guy's comments are boring!!)

my best guess is they used those photos to facilitate the story. what else would give Kenzo enough motivation to wish to go back more than an angry looking Rei? and this, ProDai. :D
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Post by Robina » May 19th, '07, 10:40

Spoiler of PD Ep. 4
I really want to kill his friends, every time he tries to fix things..his friends make things complicated and waaaa!!! destroy his plans :glare:

I really feel sorry for him. I love this episode, Ken is sooo cute..both of them love each others but hmmm what to say :roll both of them are baka.

The scene which made me saw NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! when Ken tries to say to Rie "I like you" and before he contniue...CLICK FLASH of the camera (both Ken and me say nooooooo :lol ) Just a bit of time he needs to say it...baka Ken why didn't you say it on the baseball field when you and Rie were alone :glare:

OK! The next episode sound more promising and exciting...i hope things goes well :pray:
NOW NOW I want PD Ep.5 sub!!! i want to know what will happen (>_<)
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Post by shosef » May 19th, '07, 12:40

ok...i don't want to spoil for those who didn't watch ep.4 but all i can for those who haven't watch yet...there'll be a scene where you'll cry...gosh this is my first time to cry for a drama... :cry:

for those who watched it...
oh my gosh...the scene where Ken presented the certificates to Eri and Rei...that was the scene that i cried...really love how he showed his appreciation to his friends...
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Post by GoddessCarlie » May 19th, '07, 12:44

lunargen wrote:
Actually, I probably still would make the same mistakes. I was thinking, what kind of wedding pictures did Eri choose. Who would choose so many pictures of the bride being angry?
perused through the, as trichtojay quite aptly put, walls of text, and so far found this to be enough of interest to reply to. (not that im saying that all you guy's comments are boring!!)

my best guess is they used those photos to facilitate the story. what else would give Kenzo enough motivation to wish to go back more than an angry looking Rei? and this, ProDai. :D
Or, maybe these were the only photos of all the gang together. :)

I love reading everyone's thoughts on this show, it is really thought provoking. I don't think I have any thoughts that I can add that haven't already been said more eloquently than I could have.
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Post by Love Angel » May 19th, '07, 14:31

@shosef: I teared also when watching this ep..


EP 4..
I was really touched was watching this episode..it reminded me of the last day of high school when me and my friends were playing around and teasing each other like kids :lol
when yamapi did the baseball thing for rei and eri and then the speech for both of them..it was really touching..and both of them teared (me also XD)...I think that rei was so grateful for ken to make such a memorable thing in their last day..the scene when rei discovered that ken had gave her his button of his baseball outfit was so nice..it was really a nice move from ken :wub:

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Post by Graymouse » May 20th, '07, 01:04

Episode 6 is going to awsome.....After it airs we will be over half way through. Can you beleive it! :thumleft: :thumright:
by the looks from the trailer it seems that Ken and Rei are in a relationship! I am curious how he can time-slip because he is not in the next picture. Tomorrow nights episode is going to be great.

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Post by lunargen » May 20th, '07, 01:13

hmmm i think i realize why the SCENE didn't strike me like most:
i guess im just too sentimental over anything which includes families and all. but knowing that grandpa died that year, and that ken, knowing that, pushed on to give the photo, got me all teary. Rei, looking in retrospect, would have really appreciated that.
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Post by tritochjay » May 20th, '07, 01:23

So whats up with grandchildren being embarassed with their grandparents? :D

And uh Lunargen dropped another spoiler for ep 5 >,>
Seriously though, I think that "regret" is the most painful out of all to what a person can feel. And its a pretty interesting paradigm cause Ken is in the same situation and he acted like how the fairy acted :D

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Post by joeboygo » May 20th, '07, 04:27

lunargen wrote:hmmm i think i realize why the SCENE didn't strike me like most:
Are you sure it wasn't because you were...so green with envy? (damn I was trying to use the Filipino word, what was it, "igkit?")

Anyway, is there anybody else here using a pansat box? Can you tell me how to position the dish so I can pick up the live Japanese feed? I can see Fuji Terebi on the program guide, but so far the only Japanese station I can pick up is wowow. I don' even want to wait for the raw torrent anymore; I must see episode 6 live.

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Post by aatm » May 20th, '07, 04:49

my mom said it's "inggit" - tagalog which means "envious".

anyways, yeah, i can't wait for ep 6. =)

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Post by lunargen » May 20th, '07, 04:58

@ joeboygo - hmm oddly, yes and no. i felt that his hotness by far overshadowed any "inggit" that was there, although i have to admit, the little green monsters had a mini field day and ran amok ahaha.

@trichtojay - hehe sorry for the spoiler. i thought you guys knew already since this thread struck me as a thread for those who don't seem to need subs at all >>what with the walls of text and all<<\
with regards to regret. idk, i can't really say it is... cause i have yet to experience one that will make me fully empathize with Ken, albeit i understand. not that i haven't had my fair share, it's just that i have yet to be consumed by such a deep regret.
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Post by tritochjay » May 20th, '07, 09:24

@lunargen - i do know about it :D its kinda like baiting the rest of the people waiting the for subs of ep 5 :D haha.. bit by bit you uncover more spoilers which definitely adds to their torment :D

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Post by pwner4once » May 20th, '07, 13:58

Robina wrote:Spoiler of PD Ep. 4
I really want to kill his friends, every time he tries to fix things..his friends make things complicated and waaaa!!! destroy his plans :glare:

I really feel sorry for him. I love this episode, Ken is sooo cute..both of them love each others but hmmm what to say :roll both of them are baka.

The scene which made me saw NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! when Ken tries to say to Rie "I like you" and before he contniue...CLICK FLASH of the camera (both Ken and me say nooooooo :lol ) Just a bit of time he needs to say it...baka Ken why didn't you say it on the baseball field when you and Rie were alone :glare:

OK! The next episode sound more promising and exciting...i hope things goes well :pray:
NOW NOW I want PD Ep.5 sub!!! i want to know what will happen (>_<)
That's totally correct. It seems Kens' failure of being straight with Rei is because of all this friends... friends who are so oblivious! Also Tsurusu always ruins things such as the second button or running into them on the baseball field. baka! :cussing:

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Post by Gorahgurl » May 20th, '07, 14:12

I am wondering something about episode 4. -.- Even when it was obvious he didn't want to give the button to that girl with the weird face, his friends FORCED him to give it to her, and she was STILL all,"Arigatou gozaimasu!!!" Was that girl blind? I mean, shouldn't she have just given it back after it was painfully obvious he had other plans for that button? T_T

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Post by mizune » May 20th, '07, 14:31

not really...
she only wanted the button because she and her friend were competing to see who could collect the most buttons...
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Post by pwner4once » May 20th, '07, 19:06

mizune wrote:not really...
she only wanted the button because she and her friend were competing to see who could collect the most buttons...
hehe I was just about to say that. However could Ken and his friends be that blind about how many button that girl received from all of their friends already? Personally Ken's friend want to help him but never realizes that he has one boarding the love plane already :cry:

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Post by JC » May 20th, '07, 23:40

This drama gets a thumbs up from me purely because I saw a Wii remote in the first episode! :D
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Post by Gorahgurl » May 20th, '07, 23:45

That's kind of a lame reason...liking a dorama, not because of the storyline, or acting, or actors, but because you saw a WII REMOTE in the first episode.

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 00:53

T minus 12 hours until episode 6! :cheers:

Masami cooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeee bbbbbbbbaaaaaaaccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkk! :w00t:

Sorry, couldnt contain myself just the thought of being able to watch Masami live in less then 24 hrs is great. :w00t:

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Post by lunargen » May 21st, '07, 03:01

@ graymouse - hahahah and your wife doesn't get angry?! :D

hahahah i just had to get away from my work to reply to that

*okay back to work*
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Post by kurosaki_frank » May 21st, '07, 03:13

JC wrote:This drama gets a thumbs up from me purely because I saw a Wii remote in the first episode! :D
aaaah where?
ill have to re-watch damn it
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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 03:14

lunargen wrote:@ graymouse - hahahah and your wife doesn't get angry?! :D

hahahah i just had to get away from my work to reply to that

*okay back to work*
@lunargen :D Nah, she don't mind. I have many Japanese Idols that I always watch:

Misaki Ito (densha ottko) She is soooo beautiful!

Kouki Taka (erm last samurai and countless "depends" commericals here in Japan)

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Post by twl » May 21st, '07, 04:14

the Wii mote is in the first few minutes of first episode, when Ken is still sleeping on his couch!

As for episode 6, YEA!!! Can't wait till i get hold of it! I am also looking fwd to watch epi 8 & 9 live in Japan!! :)

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Post by kilaalaa » May 21st, '07, 12:24

Who's watching it live now? :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 12:32

Me!

................................ :cry:

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Post by hikkichan » May 21st, '07, 12:50

I got back late from work, so I missed bits and pieces.
Ah... who would've thought he was there in the picture. Also, I felt so bad about how he missed her. Once she was shown crossing the bridge... I was like "Ah Hells No... she's going to throw it". After ten years of loving him... and him giving her his eraser in Grade school when she didn't have one... she just threw it.

Ahhh... and now the new picture is the day that what's his face confessed to Rei.
I need to download this since I missed most of it while cooking and from coming home late from work...

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 12:53

hikkichan wrote:I got back late from work, so I missed bits and pieces.
Ah... who would've thought he was there in the picture. Also, I felt so bad about how he missed her. Once she was shown crossing the bridge... I was like "Ah Hells No... she's going to throw it". After ten years of loving him... and him giving her his eraser in Grade school when she didn't have one... she just threw it.

Ahhh... and now the new picture is the day that what's his face confessed to Rei.
I need to download this since I missed most of it while cooking and from coming home late from work...
I am so sad right now..........I can't even think.
Shame on Tada! That is what I predicted. He pretty much got Rei on the rebound and it wasn't KEN'S FAULT! It just bad luck! He waited for her! She waited for him!

Well, the marathon man was in this episode. Eri and Tsuru had some screen time also. Her volleyball "boyfriend" dumped her but Tsuru was there to cheer her up! Good for him!
[/spoiler]
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Post by kilaalaa » May 21st, '07, 13:01

-______-
I hate Tada now. TT________TT But in any case I guess Ken had to suffer some setback in somewhere along the plot I guess, if not the plot will get real boring...

But this episode is just too fajghahgjdhkgahdkshga for me. I'm about to burst!

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 13:08

Yeah, a picture in a picture. Lucky him! The only thing that changed was Ken in the background watching the camera go flash and click. This time slip was a waste for Ken but there was a lot of character development between Eri and Tsuru and Rei and Tada. Poor Ken was sick. Will write more when I watch it again which will be soon.

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Post by hikkichan » May 21st, '07, 13:09

It looks like the next episode takes place around mid-late 2004 due to the Yonsama dress up.

I was cracking up at the beginning... I did catch that on the Car navi... after he went back in time, the girl was like "You cheated on me, didn't you!" and then Kenzo was like "Who the hell is this??!?!?!" and then it turned out to be Mikio's girlfriend...

Oh well... you have to love the cliched "completely miss each other" plot twist; it always works out so well. :P

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Post by yllsen » May 21st, '07, 13:17

are? hontou, hontou ni?

i dont think i can watch anymore.

this is so sad! :alcoholic:

papatayin ko si tada. hehehe. :cussing:
:alcoholic: Omae wa... KOROSU!

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 13:28

hikkichan wrote:
It looks like the next episode takes place around mid-late 2004 due to the Yonsama dress up.

I was cracking up at the beginning... I did catch that on the Car navi... after he went back in time, the girl was like "You cheated on me, didn't you!" and then Kenzo was like "Who the hell is this??!?!?!" and then it turned out to be Mikio's girlfriend...

Oh well... you have to love the cliched "completely miss each other" plot twist; it always works out so well. :P
Yeah Mikio stayed over at Ken's house the night before so Mikio's girlfriend thought that it was Ken's fault that Mikio cheated on her. Also Ken got his fortune "chu kichi" a little luck........(not this time)

The next episode it seems like Tada confesses to Rei. If my Japanese is correct.

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Post by kilaalaa » May 21st, '07, 13:32

^
ARGH! KEN! You need to go back and stop Tada from confessing to Rei in the next time slip!
But why do I have the feeling that Tada will be successful yet again? -____-

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 13:37

Who has already seen episode 6? I need to make sure I understood certain things. :crazy:

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 14:12

(there was some flash backs to middle school in this on)Rei wrote Ken a letter back in middle school confessing her love for him. She waited outside the gate of the middle school but Ken never came out that way that day.

(when Ken went to the past he started to get really sick and was soon sick in his bed. Mikio called Rei and told her about Ken so when she found out that Ken was sick she decided to go to Ken's house to bring him some medicine and to give him the letter. The phone was ringing and Rei walks in his house and Ken wasn't home. The answering machine picked up and what sounded like Mikio and his girlfriend was on the other line. (not sure what they said) She sat outside Ken's house waiting for him and soon got tired of waitig so she then started walking and you hear a voice over of Rei reading the letter. Telling Ken that she has feelings for him. Afterwards she folded the letter into a paper airplane and tossed it off of the bridge. She went back to college and Tada was on the stairs waiting for her. They go back to Rei's work area and talk (not exactly sure what they said so I am not going to say anything about that. Rei started crying after Tada said Happy Birthday to her.

Ken was waiting for Rei with her birthday present at another location. (looks to be the post office) After she didn't come he walked home to find medicine and a note from Rei. Ken takes off runing back to the college and he makes it to the room where Tada and Rei are sitting only to find out that the picture was about to be taken. All he can do was bang his fist against the glass window of the door.
The whole episode had a "dark" feel to it. I guess we are at the climax of the story now. After tonight we are more than half-way through. Ken has five more chances.
Last edited by Graymouse on May 21st, '07, 16:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by namie » May 21st, '07, 14:18

Hi!! Is there a site where seen the episode 6 of ProDai in streaming???? I can't wait more.... :goggle: :goggle: :goggle:

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 14:21

namie wrote:Hi!! Is there a site where seen the episode 6 of ProDai in streaming???? I can't wait more.... :goggle: :goggle: :goggle:
http://nomanymore.blogspot.com/2007/02/ ... kusen.html

Try here. They are pretty quick to put the RAW up.

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Post by namie » May 21st, '07, 14:28

Graymouse wrote:
namie wrote:Hi!! Is there a site where seen the episode 6 of ProDai in streaming???? I can't wait more.... :goggle: :goggle: :goggle:
http://nomanymore.blogspot.com/2007/02/ ... kusen.html

Try here. They are pretty quick to put the RAW up.
Oh thank you!But this blog put up the raw after the "arrive" of torrent file. I mean,is there a site where see the new episode in this day,before the release of torrent file?I would like to see it now.......
:cry: :cry:

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Post by Graymouse » May 21st, '07, 14:32

namie wrote:
Graymouse wrote:
namie wrote:Hi!! Is there a site where seen the episode 6 of ProDai in streaming???? I can't wait more.... :goggle: :goggle: :goggle:
http://nomanymore.blogspot.com/2007/02/ ... kusen.html

Try here. They are pretty quick to put the RAW up.
Oh thank you!But this blog put up the raw after the "arrive" of torrent file. I mean,is there a site where see the new episode in this day,before the release of torrent file?I would like to see it now.......
:cry: :cry:
............ :cry: Oh. I amost wished I didn't watch this one. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Post by Love Angel » May 21st, '07, 14:38

was ep6 that sad?? :-( I didn't watch ep5 yet..can't wait! *-*

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Post by hikkichan » May 21st, '07, 15:01

It was sad, but it definitely made you want to cheer both Rei and Kenzo on.

And yea... he was outside of the Hachioji post office.

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Post by tritochjay » May 21st, '07, 19:59

Why am I working on Mondays? Why do I have 3 queues in my BT?

This is just sad. >,>

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Post by namie » May 21st, '07, 21:23

I CAN'T WAIT !!!!!!!!!!! I AM CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!! :goggle: :goggle: :goggle: :goggle:

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Post by ouss » May 21st, '07, 21:28

get drunk and you will forget about prop daisak :alcoholic:

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Post by joeboygo » May 21st, '07, 21:48

It's funny how the conversation here suddenly spikes and then just goes quiet until the next release. Let's see if we can't get some reaction going on the following issue:

Teachers function as surrogate parents to their students. They have the authority to modify their student' behavior through both positive reinforcement (praise, awards, good grades) and negative reinforcement (criticism, bad grades). Comunication generally flows one way: the student listens to and obeys the teacher; the teacher only needs feedback from the student to monitor proper absorption of the curriculum. The student is generally not allowed to second-guess the teacher's decisions or question his/her motives.Hence, the student is clearly subordinate to the teacher. And that's especially true in Japan and other asian cultures, where teachers still inflict corporeal punishment and age still determines social rank.

That's why the student-teacher model is fundamentally incomaptible with a modern marriage relationship, where both spouses are co-equal partners, communication is a two-way street, and decision-making authority is equally shared by husband and wife. In many cases, the kind of man that would exploit the superior position of a mentor to seduce a student has trouble relating to women as peers. Most are also saddled with the deep insecurities of control-freaks seeking compliant and obedient mates that they can mold into their own versions of the Stepford Wife.

For the record, Tada is only about six years older than Ken or Rei, based on what he carved under the lab table. He graduated in 1996, while Ken and Rei graduated in 2002. A six year gap is insignificant between a 24 and 30 year-old, and not even worthy of mention between a 54 and a 60-year old. But between a 15-16-year old adolescent girl and a 22-year old man, the six year gap is wider than the pacific ocean. The girl is still in her most impressionable years and her adult personality has not yet been fully formed. Girls in that age group should be off-limits to adult men because the tempation and opportunity for manipulation is too great. And it's especially acute in a student-teacher relationship. And yet we see from episodes 2 & 4 that the first stirrings of Tada's attraction to Rei stem from their high school encounter. And now it appears from the latest installment that he had his eye on her while he was teaching her in college as well.

Ladies, I know Tada-san bears an uncanny resemblance to the actor Fujiki Naohito. But shouldn't the situation between him and Rei trigger some alarms? And does the fact that he looks physically attractive cancel out the serious issues raised above? Is that why your normal threat detector has been subdued?

This should give us something to talk about while we wait for subbed 5 and raw 6.

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Post by namie » May 21st, '07, 22:25

I think that the episode is on clubbox!! :cheers: And now,on torrent too!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

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Post by tritochjay » May 22nd, '07, 00:53

@joeboy - good points but when did Tada actually initiated any actions to Rei? College. And as like you said, the gap is insignificant by then.

Its funny cause I remembered my teacher in training back in freshmen high school, and this teacher (a girl) actually had someone from the 4th year ask her out. They ended up getting married 3 years later.

I know its Taboo for a teacher-student relationship to exist but I guess the world is evolving- I'd certainly want someone that has plans for the future too.

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Post by malljclay » May 22nd, '07, 01:27

does anyone know who's uploading this drama now?
seems like the person is not continuing on crunchyroll....TT__TT
their fame is overwhelming

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Post by Graymouse » May 22nd, '07, 02:27

joeboygo wrote:It's funny how the conversation here suddenly spikes and then just goes quiet until the next release. Let's see if we can't get some reaction going on the following issue:

Teachers function as surrogate parents to their students. They have the authority to modify their student' behavior through both positive reinforcement (praise, awards, good grades) and negative reinforcement (criticism, bad grades). Comunication generally flows one way: the student listens to and obeys the teacher; the teacher only needs feedback from the student to monitor proper absorption of the curriculum. The student is generally not allowed to second-guess the teacher's decisions or question his/her motives.Hence, the student is clearly subordinate to the teacher. And that's especially true in Japan and other asian cultures, where teachers still inflict corporeal punishment and age still determines social rank.

That's why the student-teacher model is fundamentally incomaptible with a modern marriage relationship, where both spouses are co-equal partners, communication is a two-way street, and decision-making authority is equally shared by husband and wife. In many cases, the kind of man that would exploit the superior position of a mentor to seduce a student has trouble relating to women as peers. Most are also saddled with the deep insecurities of control-freaks seeking compliant and obedient mates that they can mold into their own versions of the Stepford Wife.

For the record, Tada is only about six years older than Ken or Rei, based on what he carved under the lab table. He graduated in 1996, while Ken and Rei graduated in 2002. A six year gap is insignificant between a 24 and 30 year-old, and not even worthy of mention between a 54 and a 60-year old. But between a 15-16-year old adolescent girl and a 22-year old man, the six year gap is wider than the pacific ocean. The girl is still in her most impressionable years and her adult personality has not yet been fully formed. Girls in that age group should be off-limits to adult men because the tempation and opportunity for manipulation is too great. And it's especially acute in a student-teacher relationship. And yet we see from episodes 2 & 4 that the first stirrings of Tada's attraction to Rei stem from their high school encounter. And now it appears from the latest installment that he had his eye on her while he was teaching her in college as well.

Ladies, I know Tada-san bears an uncanny resemblance to the actor Fujiki Naohito. But shouldn't the situation between him and Rei trigger some alarms? And does the fact that he looks physically attractive cancel out the serious issues raised above? Is that why your normal threat detector has been subdued?

This should give us something to talk about while we wait for subbed 5 and raw 6.
@joe I agree with what you are saying 100%. About Teacher/Student relationship. After watching Episode 6 I am now convinced that was Tada's intention from the get go when they first meet in High School. He capatilized on Rei condition in Episode 6 and I am really starting to think Tada is a smooth talker and tells a girl what she wants to hear. Tada = :cussing:

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Post by joeboygo » May 22nd, '07, 02:45

Graymouse, I'd like to engage you in a conversation, but I just saw episode 6, and right now I'm struggling to prevent myself from jumping off a bridge.

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Post by Gorahgurl » May 22nd, '07, 02:46

Why? What happens in ep. 6? O.O -can't help but ask despite the fact she's waiting for episode 5 subs-

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Post by Graymouse » May 22nd, '07, 02:56

joeboygo wrote:Graymouse, I'd like to engage you in a conversation, but I just saw episode 6, and right now I'm struggling to prevent myself from jumping off a bridge.
After watching the episode last night I started to walk around the house all sad and depressed. The wife even asked me what was wrong and I told her nothing. Poor Ken :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: (this is awsome what the writters did)
Last edited by Graymouse on May 22nd, '07, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CrAcKaJaP206 » May 22nd, '07, 03:09

After watching Ep. 6 i started to hit my damn comp table saying "God Dammit!" and "F-This" It's really bitter sweet. But dammit, this is like the first drama that i can't wait to end cause it's killin me seriously. :p

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Post by tritochjay » May 22nd, '07, 03:17

The cliche "miss each other" part of episode 6 really just put me into a depressive state and then preview just added salt to my wounded heart!

This episode focused more into the character development of Eri, Tsuru and Mikio.

Tada was just at the right place and the right time and WILL reap the benefit of his actions in this episode, next episode!

Sigh.. Imma go ask for depression medicine soon as I think this show will get down and dirty with the triangle soon

Oh my prayers were answered btw. This is the good stuff.. the very definition of a good drama.

edit: had to remove the smileys! haha boo!
Last edited by tritochjay on May 22nd, '07, 03:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Graymouse » May 22nd, '07, 03:20

CrAcKaJaP206 wrote:After watching Ep. 6 i started to hit my damn comp table saying "God Dammit!" and "F-This" It's really bitter sweet. But dammit, this is like the first drama that i can't wait to end cause it's killin me seriously. :p
..................sigh!

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Post by joeboygo » May 22nd, '07, 04:29

For those who care, 17.4% of the viewing audience (Kanto) tuned in to episode 6 to witness Tada's attempt to hijack fate. That's up a whole percentage point from last week.'s audience for episode 5 and THE SCENE.

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Post by tritochjay » May 22nd, '07, 04:57

I wonder what ProDai is up against every monday night in other networks :D

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Post by pwner4once » May 22nd, '07, 05:02

omfg i cant believe that the subs r so farr behind... pray for speed subs!

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