Login Issue? Delete D-addicts cookie from your browser settings and login again.

[Discussion] Proposal Daisakusen (Operation Love)

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
User avatar
Archaenon
Posts: 435
Joined: Mar 17th, '07, 09:33
Contact:

Post by Archaenon » Apr 25th, '07, 08:57

Bambino and this are going to have to fight for top spot this spring. I like it so far.

*is just now getting around to seeing this. D:*

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » Apr 25th, '07, 09:23

It kinda cracked me up during that scene, considering how SIMILAR it is to TOUCH (I've only watched the movie.. but yeah.. very similar plot)..
Not to mention the girl in TOUCH is.. ALSO Nagasawa Masami..
Yeah, I saw Touch last year (great example of Masami carrying a not very good movie) and I just finished H2. You know if it's an Adachi story if there's A) two baseball stud who suck at love, B) a female baseball manager/childhood friend who supports both guys, and C) some random tragedy. So far we got points A) and B); what evil situation will drop down on our two love birds?

So far, Proposal Daisakusen is playing like a star vehicle, because we're kinda seeing homages from each actor. Ken is like toned down, grown up version of Akira (Nobuta.) To get into the past, Ken uses Nobuta Power. Ken does serious time with a bartender/sensei (Kurosagi.) Rei's a baseball obsessed manager (Touch.) Ken and Rei may or may not be in love, and everybody else is guessing (Dragon Zakura.) Rei thoroughly dons a wedding dress (Sekai.)

All we need now is a hospital flashback, a homoerotic beach sequence, silly wigs, -- oh yeah more Nobuta Power! -- and by God I do believe we have the greatest J-drama ever. ;)
agree with you. Masami is really good at facial expression. a slight change in her facial expression does conveys a lot of meaning.
Masami is kind of the alpha to Sawajiri's omega. Both established themselves in tearjerker dramas; both are popular CMs; both are non-singers with pop hits in 2006; both are associated with Hiroko Yakushimaru (1 Litre mom; original Sailor Fuku); Erika was treated by Fujiki Naohito; Masami is marrying Fujiki Naohito; both have or will work with Takayuki Yamada. Hell, there's even a CM where the actor who played Erika's younger brother in 1 Litre is drooling (big. time.) over Masami. They balance idol image and preocious acting talent. Masami has a cerebral acting style; Sawajiri's acting begins with the body; Masami is charming and cynical; Sawajiri is magnetic and ferocious. And I think both have gained a little weight. Huh.

@anime76:
It is my opinion that she does have feelings for Ken. However Ken's actions (not being serious about things & not confesing to her) probably made her partially gave up on him (partial cause Rei still keep glancing at Ken at the wedding). They are friends that have not cross the line. The barier that stops them from expression themselves & thus chance ruining the friendship is strong. Combination of these factors probably push her to accept another man's feelings. Thus leading to her marriage to the groom.
I'm interested when they get to the basis for their marraige. Her husband was Ken's professor; Ken probably was the one who introduced them or brought them together.
I love the glances she was throwing at Ken, but I also wonder whether she really was waiting for him to confess. If we go along with the Adachi-style adolescent love story, if she had feelings for Ken, they are complicated by her private knowledge of him. She knows him too well; and so there are always things that anger and frustrate her, that are quite "hopeless" about him. It goes back to how she initially replied to her best friend; they are neither here nor there, they just are, and she seemed comfortable, even resigned, to that.

You know, having not seen episode 2 yet, I just have this hunch that Ken and Rei just see their relationship so differently. For Rei to want to pass the line, he has to go beyond confessing and actually surprise her. He has to be a different person than who he was to her.
@yllsen
Yeah, it's possible that everything we've seen is his dream sequence. I think the writers will want to bring Ken and Rei together to please the audience. But, having Ken conveniently rewrite history to axe their marraige isn't fair play.
I'm hoping for a Mikio + Eri subplot because I think their characters go really well with each other. And they match well with each other aesthetically too.
My hunch is that Ken's shenanigans will somehow bring them together. He changes nothing except his buddies's love lives. How's that for bitter irony? :D

User avatar
kilaalaa
Posts: 81
Joined: May 12th, '05, 00:53

Post by kilaalaa » Apr 25th, '07, 09:46

I think Ken will end up with Rei.

It would be too cruel if he didn't. (And the mysterious Angel/Magic guy seems to want them to end up together too.)

And I think the final episode will end like the beginning episode. Remember how in the beginning episode Ken is all late, and running to the wedding? And we actually thought he was the groom but turns out he's just rushing to help out in the wedding?

I think the ending will be kind of like that, with him running to the wedding,
except this time he's the groom.

Hehe.

(And seriously...Fujiki Naohito's character in the show is seriously boring. Remember the scene during the wedding where he was doing all that math? I know he's a math teacher, but still........that is TOOO boring.)

User avatar
anime76
Posts: 20
Joined: Feb 9th, '07, 12:47
Location: Malaysia

Post by anime76 » Apr 25th, '07, 11:07

@belleza:
oic, the groom is Ken's professor. i thought maybe he was Ken's senpai in college & maybe Rei met him when she visited Ken.
Yes, i do wonder what picture he will change at this time (especially when / after Rei meets the groom).

That's the word i was looking for: Resigned! That fits perfectly with Rei's words to Eri.

yeah i think Ken will have to do more than just confess his feeling. He will really have to do something shocking/surprising to convince Rei.

Actually i've not watched ep.2 as well. Isn't is surprising how much we can analyse just from one episode? hahaha....
concentrating on KenxRei all the time would be boring. I would definately want to see more action from the other characters. As friends, their actions will have influence each other & the final outcome of this story.

User avatar
Love Angel
Posts: 342
Joined: Mar 5th, '06, 18:06
Location: UAE

Post by Love Angel » Apr 25th, '07, 13:21

I enjoyed watching ep 1..it was all great.. script, music and acting..
Ken broke my heart in the wedding..seeing rei marrying another man, the speech, the slide show..poor ken..I wonder if he will win her back or she will be still married to that man in the end of the drama :unsure:

can't wait to watch the 2nd ep :thumright:

User avatar
Misato-san
Posts: 450
Joined: Mar 12th, '07, 10:46
Location: Italy

Post by Misato-san » Apr 25th, '07, 13:58

kilaalaa wrote:(And seriously...Fujiki Naohito's character in the show is seriously boring. Remember the scene during the wedding where he was doing all that math? I know he's a math teacher, but still........that is TOOO boring.)
I don't agree with this point... I found Ken boring and annoying but Naohito's character is love... that particulare scene is so funny ^____^
I like him so much XD

User avatar
kilaalaa
Posts: 81
Joined: May 12th, '05, 00:53

Post by kilaalaa » Apr 25th, '07, 15:02

^ Er okay...to each his own then =)

Lady Zhuge
Posts: 66
Joined: Mar 7th, '04, 17:43

Post by Lady Zhuge » Apr 25th, '07, 15:21

Naohito's character does seem pretty dull so far, but he hasn't exactly gotten a lot of screentime for character development. Hopefully that will change, especially if Ken goes back in time during his college years when Naohito's character was his teacher.

mimmi
Posts: 573
Joined: Mar 19th, '05, 22:03
Location: wisconsin

Post by mimmi » Apr 25th, '07, 15:59

Haven't watch epsode one yet, but it's interesting to read the comments....I think I'm gonna wait for a few more episodes before I start watching this dorama :-)....

auroragb
Posts: 1138
Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 15:16

Post by auroragb » Apr 25th, '07, 21:41

So far, I'm liking this series a lot more than Bambino. YamaPi is toned down a lot more since Nobuta and Kurosagi. He's still wacky enough to be natural while not totally overdoing it.

So far, this season, it's going to be Liar Game, Proposal Daisakusen, and Watashitachi no Kyokasho vying for my favorite spot this season. I'm glad to say that Spring 2007 is shaping up much better than spring 2006 or 2005

User avatar
x_sushi_o
Posts: 90
Joined: Nov 26th, '06, 22:54
Location: New York City

Post by x_sushi_o » Apr 25th, '07, 21:57

totally agree with auroragb i think this drama will be one of my fav's this season too =)

also love that part when that guy(forgot his name) kept screaming, "KEN! KENNNN!!" and started shaking him like a lunatic on crack ^^ very cute

User avatar
Gorahgurl
Posts: 211
Joined: Sep 26th, '06, 00:10
Location: United States

Post by Gorahgurl » Apr 25th, '07, 22:01

rofl His friend annoys me XD But yeah, this year is going to be a VERY good for doramas. Proposal, Hanayome, Tokkyu, LIAR GAME, and Bambino, and that's just in April. =O

User avatar
Eternal Snow
Posts: 328
Joined: Jan 12th, '07, 15:02

Post by Eternal Snow » Apr 25th, '07, 23:54

Finally watched the first epi. of ProDai.. *too late i know! X3* :P

Lool :lol he runs a lot don`t ya think? :lol :lol

mannie511
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 11th, '06, 01:05
Location: Canada

Post by mannie511 » Apr 26th, '07, 07:09

and he keeeps on running~ i think that's one of the themes. maybe the new ending, he runs in the marathon instead.

User avatar
Lay
Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 16th, '07, 08:33
Location: France

Post by Lay » Apr 26th, '07, 07:39

His friend hpw screams Kenn Come baack is..Tsuru? Something like that no?
I liked the scene when Ken , Mikio and Tsuru were trying to catch the little pupet and then it's a little boy how has this puppet.

Mikio... He played in Tatta Hitotsu No Koi no?

User avatar
Eternal Snow
Posts: 328
Joined: Jan 12th, '07, 15:02

Post by Eternal Snow » Apr 26th, '07, 13:13

Yeah.. i like that guy :wub:

dee8o8
Posts: 157
Joined: Dec 9th, '05, 03:33
Location: Kauai, Hawaii
Contact:

Post by dee8o8 » Apr 27th, '07, 03:49

this drama is awesome... i like the whole concept of it. i mean who wouldnt like a chance to go back in time and do something a lil differently. we all had life altering moments in our life... (if youre old enough to know what i am talking about) this hits home for me. lucky yamapi gets to do what many wish we could...

*sigh* had to stop watching in the beginning cuz it hit home TOO much. then the next day i continued and watched it till the end. AWESOME! cant wait for more!

i wonder if the whole series will be of the hour of the slideshow? different concept. again i love the story so far.

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » Apr 28th, '07, 01:59

wow, a lot of pages to keep up to!! *nah its too long to read muwahahh*

hmmm, i utterly had the impression that naohito was BOTH ken and rei's prof. which is sorta disturbing dont you think, on the basis that i dont think high school students naturally fall for teachers who are a decade at LEAST their senior...

yeah, pi runs a whole lot.... i wonder why is that... im thinking there's a symbolism behind it, but i'll share it come the next episode.

User avatar
BOGCHI
Posts: 199
Joined: Jul 27th, '06, 20:58
Location: CA
Contact:

Post by BOGCHI » Apr 28th, '07, 03:19

lunargen wrote:
hmmm, i utterly had the impression that naohito was BOTH ken and rei's prof. which is sorta disturbing dont you think, on the basis that i dont think high school students naturally fall for teachers who are a decade at LEAST their senior...
Naohito was their(not sure if Rei's too) college professor not high school.

User avatar
XrayMind
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, '04, 20:33
Location: Land of the Sub-Prime

Post by XrayMind » Apr 28th, '07, 03:33

BOGCHI wrote: Naohito was their(not sure if Rei's too) college professor not high school.
Have you watch episode 2 yet? Actually the end of it.:D The teacher(future husband) will be in 3rd picture. Which I think was taken in high school.

User avatar
non-angelical
Posts: 368
Joined: Oct 31st, '05, 11:37
Location: paris
Contact:

Post by non-angelical » Apr 28th, '07, 05:42

yes, fujiki naohito is actually their math teacher in high school (I think he was an intern or something)

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » Apr 28th, '07, 09:36

Hmm . . . ProDai drops to 17.4 (still a fine rating) and still handily wins its week. Yikes. Wasn't winter season going to signal a comeback?
this drama is awesome... i like the whole concept of it. i mean who wouldnt like a chance to go back in time and do something a lil differently. we all had life altering moments in our life... (if youre old enough to know what i am talking about) this hits home for me. lucky yamapi gets to do what many wish we could...
I love junai stories, and though it's a staple of Japanese teen flicks and Korean melodramas, it's a real treat to see it done in J-drama TV. The thing with junai is that, when done well, it can appeal to both young and adults, because junai in both cases idealize the memories of youth. There's two variations of junai: pure first love that ends tragically, and "second chance" love where adults reflect and/or rekindle the days of their youth. It's a drama whose tension is between living in the past and letting it go. The private world of the adult life is a bit like that.

I know most D-addicts folks are here for the Yamapi -- and so am I -- but I just hope this show turns y'all onto Masami, because she's very popular in Japan. She is the reigning princess of junai, kinda like the Choi Ji Woo of J-drama (and like CJW, on the point of being typecast as such.) She is the duplicity of adolescence, the cheeks of girlish charm and the eyes of adult wariness. She is the girl next door still unaware of her flesh, and her acting is the daily anxiety of teenage life. It is that anxiety, after all, which are the terms of endearment for nostalgic adults.

And above all, it is in her incarnation as the junai princess that best offsets Yamapi's lip-locked confidence and vacuous seriousness. When Yamapi actually postures like Kimura, he is asking somebody to laugh at the act. She obliges. And when Yamapi is pure silliness, he is asking somebody to connect with him. She obliges. He is that guy with no short memory -- all certainty but no direction -- paired with the girl with only long memories -- a map in need of another hand.

I don't know -- I guess I've been waiting for this rematch for a long, long time. It just made too much sense to me.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » Apr 28th, '07, 13:07

The vibe I got from the first episode was that Tetsuya didn't sweep Rei off her feet with those witty little math jokes; she was instead driven into his wooden arms by Ken's hi-jinx and bum luck. After the second episode, it's become clear that Ken's real struggle isn't against Tetsuya but himself.

The way I see it, Ken's problem is two-fold. First, he's a real doofus. He's not dimwitted, but he lacks focus. Although he has the capacity for deep thought, he doesn't like to use it. Due to this lazy mental attitude, he tends to respond to problems by picking the easy and obvious answer, and is slow to correct himself until his mistake becomes obvious and there's almost no time left. As a result, he never gets his act together until the last minute. That's why he's always running - he's always rushing to catch-up after allowing himself to fall behind.

The second part of Ken's problem may be a tougher fix. He's not just a doofus, he's a VERY UNLUCKY doofus. That much we can gather from his season-ending base out in episode 1 and his beverage misadventures in episode 2. And it gets worse. Of all times for the new homeroom teacher to show up, it had to happen on that night. So even before meeting any of them, Tetsuya effortlessly gets between Ken and Rei by simply erasing the chalkboard. If Ken didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck at all.

That's why the whole "angel" thing works for me. Rather than giving Ken an unfair advantage, Yosei is merely leveling the playing field. He's not giving Ken a free pass. In order to alter destiny, Ken must use this divine gift of extra time to attain the maturity he deferred the first time around. We can pretty much guess how this story will conclude, and those looking for a plot twist in the end are missing the whole point (though it could happen). This isn't about where Ken is going but how he gets there. The bulk of the dramatic and narrative tension isn't supposed to come from events in the plot but from the internal process of transformation that the character is supposed to undergo. So the question isn't whether Ken will catch up, but whether he will finally learn to stay caught up for good.

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » Apr 30th, '07, 02:36

joeboygo, i gotta say, your post was very insightful. i guess i should more of the posts from this thread, but i think you hit the nail right on the head. especially in regards to yosei. what you said holds especially true for ep 2.

i'm excited to see the rest of this series. definitely going to be one of my all time faves. it just seems like everything is done right. i haven't seen anything bad so far.

User avatar
final_eric
Posts: 55
Joined: Nov 7th, '05, 19:27
Location: Belgium

Post by final_eric » Apr 30th, '07, 13:17

just watched eps 2!!^^ really love this drama!!:cheers:

Masami in school uniform is soo cute~~ :wub:
i need you guys help: in the end of ep2, Ken has written something on the blackboard, since i cant read Japanese, i really really want to know what has he written(already know that is kind of confession of love^^).! Can someone translate it for me, please? many thanks^^

User avatar
non-angelical
Posts: 368
Joined: Oct 31st, '05, 11:37
Location: paris
Contact:

Post by non-angelical » Apr 30th, '07, 14:08

it is said
An important person is sitting right beside me

User avatar
final_eric
Posts: 55
Joined: Nov 7th, '05, 19:27
Location: Belgium

Post by final_eric » Apr 30th, '07, 14:20

Ohh~~ ic ic
really romantic man!!
make me cry :P
thanks

TG3
Posts: 116
Joined: Jan 15th, '06, 01:08

Post by TG3 » Apr 30th, '07, 16:11

kilaalaa wrote: And I think the final episode will end like the beginning episode. Remember how in the beginning episode Ken is all late, and running to the wedding? And we actually thought he was the groom but turns out he's just rushing to help out in the wedding?

I think the ending will be kind of like that, with him running to the wedding,
except this time he's the groom.
Me too, I think the ending will be exactly like the beginning. It will pan out just as you said, or it will be the same as Ep1 and Ken will finally let it out that he's loved her all his life and he cannot let her marry someone else when it should be him.

Either would be nice, but I would like the latter just to see Yamap in a great "kokuhaku" scene.

User avatar
XrayMind
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, '04, 20:33
Location: Land of the Sub-Prime

Post by XrayMind » May 1st, '07, 01:12

I thought of ending that made me chuckle for a moment. Ken is stilling running to the wedding, the groom is still the teacher, but the bride this time is Rie's best friend Eri. Ken and Rie are either already married or engaged. Of course, now Hisashi wish he can change the past.

shinhaku
Posts: 61
Joined: Jul 5th, '06, 17:13
Location: Unknown

Post by shinhaku » May 1st, '07, 02:08

from the look of it, since the end of ep 2, it doesnt seem like anything will change, most ppl would expect a happy ending for Ken but now i really doubt that thought i hope it would be true. it's funny how Yamapi always has funny poses in his dramas (Kurosagi and this one) XD

User avatar
8thSin
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 630
Joined: Sep 29th, '05, 03:17
Location: Fansub addict
Contact:

Post by 8thSin » May 1st, '07, 03:42

Ep 3, love it! Why are people not watching this series :cry: 13.4%

I'm glad he didn't do the a-hole thing. It would've been really low if he did something like that to win a girl back. Although I'm curious how he will win her over though... Doesn't seem like he's in any position to impress her soon :sweat:

User avatar
japysia
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 19th, '06, 06:47

Post by japysia » May 1st, '07, 05:36

8thSin wrote:Ep 3, love it! Why are people not watching this series :cry: 13.4%
I'm not surprised with the rating.There's a special bangumi hosted by Sanma,Tokoro George and Beat Takeshi that was aired on NTV from 7pm till 11pm last night. Even high-rating variety show, SmapxSmap only got 15.?% last night.I think the rating for this drama wil increase to 16% ~ 18% next week.

User avatar
lilsh0rtnancy
Posts: 139
Joined: Sep 17th, '04, 22:08

Post by lilsh0rtnancy » May 1st, '07, 05:45

8thSin wrote:Ep 3, love it! Why are people not watching this series :cry: 13.4%

I'm glad he didn't do the a-hole thing. It would've been really low if he did something like that to win a girl back. Although I'm curious how he will win her over though... Doesn't seem like he's in any position to impress her soon :sweat:
Ahh... What's the a-hole thing? Can you elaborate please. Just finished downloading the raw. Can't wait to watch it!

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » May 1st, '07, 06:02

@ lilshortnancy
well, the situation arose wherein he had the opportunity to completely rid of tada-san (the groom) during his trip back... im not going to expound too much though so as not to rob you of any more excitement... but anyway, what he did was he actually helped him stay at his job as math teacher! hahaha talk about irony....

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » May 1st, '07, 07:57

i couldn't tell, and i didn't pause to see but:
did rei and tada-san have their arms interlocked in the new picture?
It kinda looked like it, but it's 1 in the morning and my roommate is asleep, so I don't want to turn my screen brightness up to max to check. =(

i don't think i can wait a week to watch the next ep. preview of the next episode looks like it'll be good...sad, but good. definitely my fav. dorama for this season. *sigh*

edit:
i checked my spoiler again, and I saw my answer. =(

User avatar
jaccie
Posts: 29
Joined: Dec 6th, '05, 18:13

Post by jaccie » May 1st, '07, 11:07

anyone hv the lyrics to the ending themE???

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 1st, '07, 12:12

Just finished Episode 2 (FINALLY!!!) Sigh

First off, if episode 1 had flashes of H2, episode 2 TOTALLY had Nobuta Wo Produce (Frankenstein?!?) all over it. It's great to see Yamapi loosen up a bit and revert back to his Akira silliness. The joy of this show isn't just as a sweet fairy tale, but a kind of sly revue of both of the lead's previous work. I'm also loving the charisma between Tomahisa and Masami -- it's not so much that you can feel something between them, but that these two just stand out in their scenes. Once again we have the Akira Yamapi, with his trademark looks of steely determination and occasionally sexy boy pout again and again thwarted by comical fate. And we have Masami effortlessly in her "cheerful friend girl" mode, the smiling frustration of her Dragon Zakura. The looks she throws, the sudden bursts of "oh crap!" from him.
Ken speaks a little Korean?!? Eri is an Ayu fan? Huh. So this being 1999, they're right at the beginning of Ayu (when she looked normal!) and Hikki-dom, eh? Those really were innocent times then.

The episode was nicely written, and it kinda danced over an essential mystery of the story. What does Rei really feel for Ken?

From the get-go, the episode does a nice job of misdirection. The plot and direction sends us down one cul-de-sac -- surely the coffee milk was the thing!! -- while having Rei subtly criticizing Ken's personality.

Which is the thing I pick up again. It was one thing for Ken to "do the best he can", but the thing we're getting here and in Episode 1 is that Ken IS doing the best he can, but he has no idea what is best for her. That is, he doesn't know what she wants. Eri tells Rei that she should send more obvious signals to "slow" Ken if she really feels something for him. Later, when Ken figures it out, you can also signal the frustration coming from him. Maybe she doesn't know what she wanted either.

It runs both ways -- in a natural situation, if two people are really meant to be, these nontragic misunderstandings of our so-called lives are also gentle messages that, maybe, they really weren't meant to be. She's already starting to feel this way; if it was THIS hard to get through to him, maybe they just don't understand each other. And, so, we can immediately see that she really is looking elsewhere now. Her eyes are searching for "something easier." Cue the math teacher.

There's a slight hint of pathos here. We're starting to feel that, no matter what Ken does, it will slowly dawn on him that he may not be able to change fate. Maybe, he can only make his memories with her the best he can. You already get the sense that, though he is reliving his past the most he can -- and he enjoys things even more now than then -- that as the episode draw on, this is going to also hurt more. He's about to experience the beginning of their relationship again; he's about to fight and fight and he's about to lose and lose, so decisively. He may have to conceded that the teacher really was the better match after all, and that this journey was his closure.
At different parts in the episode, I started thinkign how Yamada Takayuki would play this role. The issue of Ken sort of coming of age in a different timeline than Rei reminded me of Yamada's situation in H2. And in that show, he and his childhood friend had an intimate, honest bond, which became an earnest and aching dialogue on this subject. At times, he would clearly articulate the mix of frustration and joy, for he was already reliving his past into his present, and was unsure how to move forward. As was she. And, so here, I see ProDai taking another, albeit more effeverscent spin on that subject, here making a cleaner contrast between her choices and his differences. Good contrast here: Yamada's acting is a study in emotional interia; his H2 character was like a boy waving goodbye and hello from the distance. Yamapi seems to be approach acting as literally action (i.e. GOT to do this! GOT to that! No no! Do this instead! Cry now!); his Ken is going to leave introspection at the door and go out with a bang (and perfect hair!)

Really feeling the Southern All Stars here. Ya gotta love a show that pulls out the brass and the ULTIMATE wedding singer !!

Eri (she will be Maisson Ikkoku?!?!?!?) and Hisashi are just darling. They're SO meant for each other, and it seems like it's their wedding we'll see in the end.

Finally, math teachers are all dorks, yes, but when they come as Fujiki Naohito, they have a beautiful, beautiful mind. Rei's going to melt like buttah!

User avatar
daelite
Posts: 52
Joined: Mar 31st, '07, 21:23
Location: USA

Post by daelite » May 1st, '07, 13:47

Eri (she will be Maisson Ikkoku?!?!?!?) and Hisashi are just darling. They're SO meant for each other, and it seems like it's their wedding we'll see in the end.
I can't help but agree with that, they crack me up. Hisashi is so determined, and Eri not-so-secretly likes the attention, lol.


After watching episode three I got a weird feeling. It might just be me but Mikio...
...seems to be getting in Ken's way a lot, doesn't he? Hisashi does a little bit but it's his usual crazy antics and comments. Mikio almost seemed to have planned intervention from the start of the episode (at the waterfountain) until the end (Playing a suspiciously fast jan-ken-pon to get himself lifted up in the final photo). Maybe I'm reading too much but perhaps Mikio likes Rei too..? He's often close to her and his actions in this episode seemed to block Ken at every chance :X

mannie511
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 11th, '06, 01:05
Location: Canada

Post by mannie511 » May 1st, '07, 14:33

yah. i wouldn't worry too much about the ratings. it was against Baseball~

User avatar
ryoko11
Posts: 429
Joined: Jan 27th, '06, 15:43
Contact:

Post by ryoko11 » May 1st, '07, 17:13

I'm really loving the side romance with Eri and Tsuru. They're really adorable in their interactions.

I'm also feeling very much that Ken's problems with Rei are not only of his own doing.
Her actions on his birthday struck me as deeply unfair to Ken. Instead of giving him his present in a way that was joyful and fun, what she really did was set Ken up to fail. She tucked an obscure clue into a CD pamphlet that he didn't really have any reason to open. (When I listen to a CD all the time, I don't need to look at the lyrics anymore.) Then she blames him for not picking up on something that NO human being would have figured out without a miracle. People don't expect everything to be a treasure hunt on their birthdays, especially when no one tells them there's one.

It's like what Eri told her about giving a man signals when you like him. Rei seems to expect Ken to read her mind, which is a ridiculous demand. I don't believe Tetsuya would have interpreted, "Here's that CD I borrowed" to actually mean, "You should rifle through every random object I give you on your birthday to find your present, or else I can convince myself that you're slow and have another excuse to run away from my attraction to you," either.

I'm really looking forward to seeing more of her progression with Tetsuya. From what I gathered in episode 3, she seemed more straightforward in her actions towards him from the start. And if that's the case all along, perhaps the best Ken can ever do really is to make his memories with her the best they can be.

I'm also glad Ken didn't do the a-hole thing. I like Tetsuya (I dig nerdy men!), and I like seeing the relationship between the two men being approached as more than just rivals. It adds to the complexity that I'm enjoying in ProDai.
And I'm also finding tons of Nobuta references in here! The funhouse made me smile real big when I saw it.

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 1st, '07, 20:39

@ryoko11:

Right on -- I'm in total agreement here . . .
<< It's like what Eri told her about giving a man signals when you like him. Rei seems to expect Ken to read her mind, which is a ridiculous demand. >>

Yup. What Rei did was a very nice sentiment, but it's also part of this thing where Rei wants Ken to "seek her" out. She has some feelings toward Ken -- she's not actually sure if she's in love with Ken, and so she wants Ken to make that decision for her. She wants to feel wanted like Eri is wanted by all those guys, in particular that adorable goober. She holds onto the fantasy that the "perfect guy" will "discover" her and read her mind because they're grown up as childhood friends..

Ken's comments to Rei about how difficult her treasure hunt was telling. That was coming from the adult Ken, the one that had already chastised himself for not "giving it his all", but now recognized how tough Rei was making it. Or put it another way -- if Ken didn't already realize he was truly in love with Rei, would he have picked this up? I don't think he would. he wouldn't have been looking for every single sign, every single opportunity to "make it happen." He's not his friend Hisashi.

The blame is mutual between Ken and Rei. Both thought they had forever to make up their minds and try. Both were so close to each other that, in a way, both made unfair expectations about each other. And at the same time, we're also talking about adolescent timing here. Rei, as a budding adult woman, has already developed romantic feelings but does not know how to initiate a romantic relationship. She doesn't know if she wants it. It looks like Ken wasn't mature enough then to be a boyfriend. But that's not really his fault; he just wasn't ready.

Assigning blame, like any failed relationship, is also about recognizing the differences between the two parties. Because Ken and Rei grew up together, Ken felt that she belonged to him. But, did she? Really? All that time it seemed like a cycle -- they would fight and then Rei would quietly chastise Ken that -- once again -- he let her down. I'm sure she meant it in joke, but there's some bitter sincerity coming from her. (Reiterated again by Ken's separate flashback with an older Rei telling older Ken that he never understood.) Even his wedding speech seemed like yet another part of their ongoing "Ken blew it again" dialogue. Beyond him expressing his feleing, maybe Rei wanted Ken to be a different man altogether. To be like math sempai.

<<I>>

Totally. Now, I doubt student and teacher would actually try to hit on each other in a school situation. But, remember when he was in his office, Rei immediately noticed him. He was starting to make notes in her mind between the two guys, and above all how she could be different with somebody other than Ken. She could start new and as a young woman. And, well, attention from a much older guy, even if it's initially no more than kindly student-teacher at the go . . . well who else but a teacher is trained to do the best and actually listen to her?

<<and>>

It suggests that sempai was remarkable to them. The math teacher might have been Ken and Rei's oppa Ken genuinely wanted him to say; so did Rei. ;)
And I'm also finding tons of Nobuta references in here! The funhouse made me smile real big when I saw it.
Ken is like the sober version of Akira, and ProDai is Nobuta-meets-H2-meets-Quantum Leap. I'm kinda hoping the show throws in a 2nd love rival toward the end of the show.

User avatar
XrayMind
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, '04, 20:33
Location: Land of the Sub-Prime

Post by XrayMind » May 1st, '07, 21:13

Her actions on his birthday struck me as deeply unfair to Ken. Instead of giving him his present in a way that was joyful and fun, what she really did was set Ken up to fail. She tucked an obscure clue into a CD pamphlet that he didn't really have any reason to open. (When I listen to a CD all the time, I don't need to look at the lyrics anymore.) Then she blames him for not picking up on something that NO human being would have figured out without a miracle. People don't expect everything to be a treasure hunt on their birthdays, especially when no one tells them there's one.

It's like what Eri told her about giving a man signals when you like him. Rei seems to expect Ken to read her mind, which is a ridiculous demand. I don't believe Tetsuya would have interpreted, "Here's that CD I borrowed" to actually mean, "You should rifle through every random object I give you on your birthday to find your present, or else I can convince myself that you're slow and have another excuse to run away from my attraction to you," either.

I'm really looking forward to seeing more of her progression with Tetsuya. From what I gathered in episode 3, she seemed more straightforward in her actions towards him from the start. And if that's the case all along, perhaps the best Ken can ever do really is to make his memories with her the best they can be.

I'm also glad Ken didn't do the a-hole thing. I like Tetsuya (I dig nerdy men!), and I like seeing the relationship between the two men being approached as more than just rivals. It adds to the complexity that I'm enjoying in ProDai.
There is no way Ken could had figure out that Rei had hidden a message inside the liner note in the CD the first time around. Look, their group borrow CDs from each other all the time. Even if Rei objected to leaning the CD out again. The only reason Ken thought there was something in the CD case was that he remember the first time around he never got a present from Rei and for some unknown reason, she was really piss at him.

Also the only reason he figure out those numbers meant was he pay attention this time on what books she had with her.
So now I am also wondering, will changing these 11 photos/moments even to changes Ken and Rei destiny? So not only those moments have to change, both Ken and Rei also have to change.

Finally, that gray winter scene is going be a critical moment in their lives. Since we seen it in both first two episodes. Changing that might the culmination of all the other changes.

User avatar
aj2005uk
Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 5th, '07, 11:40
Location: UK

Post by aj2005uk » May 1st, '07, 21:43

Just watched episode 2 (one word: Brilliant), this drama is getting better with every new episode.

I can see this drama in my all-time favorites. :D

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 1st, '07, 21:58

So now I am also wondering, will changing these 11 photos/moments even to changes Ken and Rei destiny? So not only those moments have to change, both Ken and Rei also have to change.
I think the biggest change about Ken isn't really him being more proactive, per se, but that he's now mature enough to understand his feelings and expressing those feelings to her. Which in its own way is unfair. Ken is expressing his feelings for her from the perspective of the adult looking backwards, not as that teen. She seems to be encouraged by it, but I wonder whether she herself is mature enough to process what he's saying. I'm not sure that's the same as Rei really moving in one direction or another.

That's the rub. Let's say adult Ken eventually tells teen Rei that he loves her, that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her. Uhm, how do we expect her to react, a 17-year old girl who's not even sure about that (beautiful, beautiful) dork? Remember the different times Ken talked about how he thought things would go on forever -- teen Rei thought he was weird; adult Rei teared up. She still has her growing up too.

Rei has always been a mystery to him. But she's a mystery to us too. Ken sees the pictures as a kind of trial or even atonement for his unrequited feelings. But perhaps he's looking at it all wrong. Perhaps the pictures, as hinted by the angel, are really a set of clues into her heart. The real reward isn't leaving a better memory, but in unwrapping what she really felt, what she really wanted, and what she really needed. And possibly in helping her change for him too.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » May 1st, '07, 22:49

XrayMind wrote:

So now I am also wondering, will changing these 11 photos/moments even to changes Ken and Rei destiny? So not only those moments have to change, both Ken and Rei also have to change.
I'm glad somebody else brought this up first. I've been worried about this potential plot-hole and I hope the screenwriters have anticipated it. The show is built upon the premise that changes to the past will ripple across time to change the present. However, for three episodes now, Ken has been diving into photographs and altering the past, only to return to a present that looks pretty much the way he left it, except for changes within the photographs themselves. Up to this point, this can be explained away by saying the changes thus far have been minor. But meaningful changes outside the photos will have to start popping up soon, and in a measured and realistic pace to boot, because viewers will find it difficult to buy into any change to the present for which they have not been properly prepared.

But perhaps the bigger problem has to do with Ken. I still don't understand how time travel is supposed to affect him. It's pretty obvious that each time he relives the past, he gains new insight and understanding. But this added wisdom leads to two possible scenarios: (1) "present_Ken" learns this wisdom while reliving the past and takes it back with him to the present, leaving "past-Ken" unchanged; or (2) "past-Ken" somehow benefits from what "present-Ken" learns, so that even after "present-Ken" has returned to the future, "past-Ken" is able to maintain and build upon any improvements in his behavior and attitude that were begun during "present-Ken's" visit.

Confused yet? Heres more. Secenario (1) would make for a really shallow story, as "present-Ken" would win over Rei just by manipulating past events without correcting any of "past-Ken's" character flaws. Only a sociopath can believe that the outcome of a long-term relationship can be determined by how one behaves on strategically chosen occasions. Scenario (2) is more plausible but can create further complications. For starters, any permanent improvement to "past-Ken" should also ripple through time and cause changes to "present-Ken," such that "present Ken" would also begin changing. So for example, we could expect "present-Ken's" clothes to suddenly get better, because improvements to "past-Ken" allowed him to become a more successful "present-Ken. " And so on.

I am aware of a third scenario suggested in the spoilers of a few earlier posts. But I don't want to talk aboout that. It's too horrible to even contemplate.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » May 1st, '07, 22:50

XrayMind wrote:

So now I am also wondering, will changing these 11 photos/moments even to changes Ken and Rei destiny? So not only those moments have to change, both Ken and Rei also have to change.
I'm glad somebody else brought this up first. I've been worried about this potential plot-hole and I hope the screenwriters have anticipated it. The show is built upon the premise that changes to the past will ripple across time to change the present. However, for three episodes now, Ken has been diving into photographs and altering the past, only to return to a present that looks pretty much the way he left it, except for changes within the photographs themselves. Up to this point, this can be explained away by saying the changes thus far have been minor. But meaningful changes outside the photos will have to start popping up soon, and in a measured and realistic pace to boot, because viewers will find it difficult to buy into any change to the present for which they have not been properly prepared.

But perhaps the bigger problem has to do with Ken. I still don't understand how time travel is supposed to affect him. It's pretty obvious that each time he relives the past, he gains new insight and understanding. But this added wisdom leads to two possible scenarios: (1) "present_Ken" learns this wisdom while reliving the past and takes it back with him to the present, leaving "past-Ken" unchanged; or (2) "past-Ken" somehow benefits from what "present-Ken" learns, so that even after "present-Ken" has returned to the future, "past-Ken" is able to maintain and build upon any improvements in his behavior and attitude that were begun during "present-Ken's" visit.

Confused yet? Heres more. Secenario (1) would make for a really shallow story, as "present-Ken" would win over Rei just by manipulating past events without correcting any of "past-Ken's" character flaws. Only a sociopath can believe that the outcome of a long-term relationship can be determined by how one behaves on strategically chosen occasions. Scenario (2) is more plausible but can create further complications. For starters, any permanent improvement to "past-Ken" should also ripple through time and cause changes to "present-Ken," such that "present Ken" would also begin changing. So for example, we could expect "present-Ken's" clothes to suddenly get better, because improvements to "past-Ken" allowed him to become a more successful "present-Ken. " And so on.

I am aware of a third scenario suggested in the spoilers of a few earlier posts. But I don't want to talk aboout that. It's too horrible to even contemplate.

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 1st, '07, 23:59

I am aware of a third scenario suggested in the spoilers of a few earlier posts. But I don't want to talk aboout that. It's too horrible to even contemplate.
Oh, you mean the scenario where Ken screws up the timeline so much that he isn't even born, because it is revealed that present Rei was past Ken's true mother from her own time travels. Ken then realizes he must break into Skynet and save Rei from the machines and pointless sequels . . .
Only a sociopath can believe that the outcome of a long-term relationship can be determined by how one behaves on strategically chosen occasions.
True, but it's human nature to construct hindsight as a narrative of pivotal moments. It is how we make sense of what we are from what we were. And our love narratives inevitably read like quaint melodramas. The angel seems to alternately goad and bait Ken on this. Scenario 1 and 2 seem to be up to the angel, it seems. Is he giving Ken real power or making him feel even more powerless?

I'd imagine it'll be something like scenario 2, though. Besides it being the more honest and satisfying chain of events, J-dramas in general seem tethered to a kind of proactive fatalism. What will be will be; but you must show your fighting spirit. And in that, you discover the true nature of your fate, or here the true nature between Ken and Rei.
For starters, any permanent improvement to "past-Ken" should also ripple through time and cause changes to "present-Ken," such that "present Ken" would also begin changing.
I had originally thought Ken would not recall the 2nd episode memory, because it had become a new memory. The photo from the 2nd episode was somehow a byproduct of the first episode, and that he couldn't recollect it because he was still stuck in a "static" version of "present Ken."

So from this standpoint, Ken doesn't really change, but the past itself changes so much that his personal memory is no longer valid. And therefore, he cannot look at his relationship with Rei from hindsight; he has to see the "present", be it the photo present or the current present. In acting out his past, because for now the individual moments are relatively trivial, those memories can be sufficiently integrated into his being (i.e. doesn't matter "which" Ken did the deed, the "Ken" can own that moment as his valid memory now) without altering his perspective.

Also interesting to see whether Rei's or Sempai's attitude changes as the photos progress. Will by the end, either person see Ken so differently that the apparent situation, though unchanged, hides completely different relationships. i.e. will Rei be deeply in love with Ken, yet somehow choose the teacher? Will the teacher have resented Ken and actively split the two apart in their mutual pasts?

I hope at some point the writing starts to articulate Rei's thoughts in all this. It would be interesting to see what changes/changed or what doesn't/didn't.

My hunch, still, is that the photos aren't about cause-effect but clues into Rei's complicated feelings for him, and the nature of their relationship. He "figures" out each clue, he gets his answer in the end. That answer then resolves the plot in the present time at the end of the drama.

User avatar
ryoko11
Posts: 429
Joined: Jan 27th, '06, 15:43
Contact:

Post by ryoko11 » May 2nd, '07, 00:51

joeboygo wrote: But perhaps the bigger problem has to do with Ken. I still don't understand how time travel is supposed to affect him. It's pretty obvious that each time he relives the past, he gains new insight and understanding. But this added wisdom leads to two possible scenarios: (1) "present_Ken" learns this wisdom while reliving the past and takes it back with him to the present, leaving "past-Ken" unchanged; or (2) "past-Ken" somehow benefits from what "present-Ken" learns, so that even after "present-Ken" has returned to the future, "past-Ken" is able to maintain and build upon any improvements in his behavior and attitude that were begun during "present-Ken's" visit.

Confused yet? Heres more. Secenario (1) would make for a really shallow story, as "present-Ken" would win over Rei just by manipulating past events without correcting any of "past-Ken's" character flaws. Only a sociopath can believe that the outcome of a long-term relationship can be determined by how one behaves on strategically chosen occasions. Scenario (2) is more plausible but can create further complications. For starters, any permanent improvement to "past-Ken" should also ripple through time and cause changes to "present-Ken," such that "present Ken" would also begin changing. So for example, we could expect "present-Ken's" clothes to suddenly get better, because improvements to "past-Ken" allowed him to become a more successful "present-Ken. " And so on.

I am aware of a third scenario suggested in the spoilers of a few earlier posts. But I don't want to talk aboout that. It's too horrible to even contemplate.


That always seems to be one of the most confusing points with any story involving time travel or parallel dimensions. So far this story hasn't been terribly clear about the subject either. As Ken's success so far has been limited, it's not terribly surprising that the point hasn't been developed further.
Considering the fact that past Ken did remember to buy Rei coffee milk the next day according to episode 2, I'd say that "some changes to past Ken" seems likely. Past Ken certainly doesn't retain all of future Ken's knowledge or maturity, but I think he is slightly shaped by the quality of the new directions that future Ken takes while in the past. Since future Ken has only made very small changes, it would only cause very small changes in past Ken.

So far this hasn't made any kind of change that would make future Ken more successful for example, because the changes in question are very targeted and and mostly specific to his understaning of Rei. The only other area of his life to exhibit bleed-over so far are his relationships with close friends. Negative comments about him are generally diminished when he returns each time, and due to the nature of the story I don't expect any of the changes he makes in the past to impact more than his relationships and the relationships around him.

I'd say the story is coming due for some bigger changes to begin cropping up in the wedding time, but I'm guessing that'll start with his friends and maybe their ex-homeroom teacher.
Here's an odd thought I had today:

Would it be possible in this story for Rei to find out that Ken has been going into their past to try to change their relationship?
Since the guys told her in episode two about what Ken said after the baseball game, I've been wondering if anything might happen in one of the new events he creates to make her realize that was true--at some point during her wedding timeline most likely. (Like the figureskater reference he made in episode one that wouldn't make sense until the future.) In which case, the final time travel might have to be done by Rei to show her desire to change their past mistakes as well. Highly unlikely, I'm sure, but I found the idea intriguing.
My hunch, still, is that the photos aren't about cause-effect but clues into Rei's complicated feelings for him, and the nature of their relationship. He "figures" out each clue, he gets his answer in the end. That answer then resolves the plot in the present time at the end of the drama.
I agree that seems the most likely reality to the story. Though, I'd like to see it made a two way street between them, so that Rei'll start to understand their relationship better too instead of hiding behind her preconceptions. At least if the final outcome is to change...
Last edited by ryoko11 on May 2nd, '07, 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Archaenon
Posts: 435
Joined: Mar 17th, '07, 09:33
Contact:

Post by Archaenon » May 2nd, '07, 00:57

I'm kinda off topic with the present convo , I just wanted to let people who use LJ know there is a LJ comm for Proposal now.

http://community.livejournal.com/pdaisakusen/

Hope everyone enjoys it.

User avatar
aatm
Posts: 114
Joined: Jan 28th, '07, 04:43
Location: Orange County

Post by aatm » May 2nd, '07, 06:50

while this will not be as insightful as the previous posts, i'd like to try and comment on them.

in regards to the "small" changes the time travel is having on the future, there still are changes nonetheless. memories are changed and the picture is changed. the advantage that future ken has that past ken doesn't have is knowing what situation needs to be changed. future ken sees the picture of an important event and can "use his wits" to try and figure out what needs to be changed. even if past ken retained the maturity of future ken and knowledge of the time travel, he wouldn't know which events need that extra TLC as future ken does. he would be on edge trying to live every moment in fear of destroying his chances of changing the future.

in regards to the comment that small strategic changes in the past can hardly change the outcome of a long term relationship, i don't think that's so far fetched. consider time and the course of the future as many rows of dominos lined up in parallel rows. all that's needed is for the first domino of one of the rows to be pushed, and that row will fall down. (this is a crude analogy but bear with me) now, imagine that ken's first mistakes pushed down one row. what is happening now is that ken has the chance to go back in time, and change which row is pushed. just that small change pushes over a whole new row of dominos, unrelated to the first row. albeit, the dominos can be arranged in such a complicated way that they may weave and interlace themselves together, but changing which domino is pushed over first, or second or third, can change how they fall, even if they may seem to end up in the same place. so far, it's been different means to what seems like the same end, but it's always different. even though every single time ken comes back to the future, we are only in the wedding reception setting. we don't see any difference except in the memories and photos, because that's all we're led to believe is important. What could be happening though is that with each change, while rei is still getting married to tada-san, it could be for different reasons, and events that have happened between the last change and the wedding have been altered as well. heck, ken could've been broke before, but by a couple changes, he could be a rich guy right now and we wouldn't know it. the only thing we are allowed to have our focus on is the wedding. also, we don't see all the pictures, just one at a time. it could be that changes in one picture have changed further pictures in the slideshow, but we wouldn't know that, and really, neither would ken, as his timeline would have been changed as well.

*shrug*

in regards to winning rei over simply by changing events without changing ken's character flaws, isn't that what is being done in each episode? some flaw about past ken is being altered by future ken? it may not always be about ken's flaws as so much about the timing or the situation too. you know, one person's trash is another person's treasure. what we see as flaws in ken, may be considered an idiosyncrasy that rei may be attracted to, but the situation prevents one from telling the other, hence ken's going into the past to make things happen differently.

ultimately, think about a relationship gone wrong that you've experienced. can you really say that if you yourself had the chance to change specific things gone wrong, that the outcome of the relationship couldn't be altered?

haha...i just reread everything i wrote and it's totally not as philosophically stimulating as joeboygo or ryoko11, but i'll leave it anyway. =) i just wanna see more. =)

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 2nd, '07, 07:23

I agree that seems the most likely reality to the story. Though, I'd like to see it made a two way street between them, so that Rei'll start to understand their relationship better too instead of hiding behind her preconceptions. At least if the final outcome is to change...
My hunch is that Eri will be Rei's catalyst.
In the coffee milk brouhaha and (I think) baseball game, Eri has also picked up Ken's "out of character" actions. Rei notices these things too, of course, but Eri needles Rei's responses back to the "Ken yay/nay?" rubric. The more things Ken does, the more Eri will pester/clarfiy Rei's feelings for him. In that regard, Eri could be the medium that helps Rei change her attitude as well.
Would it be possible in this story for Rei to find out that Ken has been going into their past to try to change their relationship?
<<In>>

That's a good observation. I didn't think of that at all. :thumright:

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 2nd, '07, 07:58

so far, it's been different means to what seems like the same end, but it's always different. even though every single time ken comes back to the future, we are only in the wedding reception setting. we don't see any difference except in the memories and photos, because that's all we're led to believe is important.
Yeah, a key thing is that we're only a few episodes in. It's possible that about halfway, when the plot twist usually kicks in, the summation of his little "moment to remember" band-aids adds to massive changes in their scenario. Maybe somebody neither the teacher nor him is up on the podium with Rei. Or maybe he's marrying Eri.
what we see as flaws in ken, may be considered an idiosyncrasy that rei may be attracted to, but the situation prevents one from telling the other, hence ken's going into the past to make things happen differently.
I think timing is very much an issue here. If they're about the same age, she's naturally further along in her maturation than he is. He, like a good Adachi character, still has dreams of Koshien and meeting Ayumi Hamasaki. He wasn't ready for his feelings; he probably didn't pick up the Rei and Tada-san vibe either until the college years. He, later on, may have asked Rei -- "if I were a man, would you have loved me?"

But, at the same time, when I'm talking about Ken changing for Rei, it's also with the knowledge that we're really not sure what Ken should be for Rei. Let's just say he took every moment like it's his last with her -- does that really change his innate friendship/relationship with Rei, besides these few acts of generosity? We're really not sure, yet, why Rei is so on-the-fence with Ken.

But we know that she is. We get the sense that, like any hopeless romantic, Ken wants to "win" her over, but that the other issue is Rei's own passive aggressive attitude toward their relationship. Or to put it another way, we're really not sure -- yet -- how she feels about marrying sempai and letting Ken go. Ken and Rei never had a romantic relationship; and it seems like that was her call.

She didn't try either. She never gave Ken a shot. She too thought she had all the time in the world, and maybe she thought the teacher was going to be a big adventure. Six years down the road, is she marrying the wrong guy. If she realizes she loved Ken, WHY didn't she try? And I feel that's part of the mosaic we're seeing.

What we are led to believe are flaws with Ken . . . are still what makes Ken, Ken. And the dialogue is pointed enough to reveal her ambivalence over that. In her own words, he lets her down all the time. And in her own words, she keeps believing in him and his every promise. She might have loved him for him, but perhaps she herself didn't know how to have anything but the relationship they had. Maybe she was searching for him to understand something she didn't herself. Or maybe she unbelievably screwed up.
ultimately, think about a relationship gone wrong that you've experienced. can you really say that if you yourself had the chance to change specific things gone wrong, that the outcome of the relationship couldn't be altered?
Oh indeed. And lemme just say, if this were a K-drama, I would fully expect the conclusion to be Ken rewriting history and the teacher getting royally hosed. :D

All things said, ProDai is thoroughly a junai love story with all the bells and whistles. Junai is about the sanctity of first love, and Ken rewriting history for the sake of first love. It ain't reality sure, but who actually believes Yamapi wouldn't get the girl? And is Masami REALLY going to wear a wedding dress for 10 straight episodes?

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » May 2nd, '07, 08:18

wow, kudos to the cerebrality of the discussions!! i am thoroughly enjoying myself reading what you guys talk about. i wont interfere though.. i find my thought and analyses a tad bit too confusing right now heheh. maybe in a few eps time.. :D

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » May 2nd, '07, 10:36

aatm wrote:ultimately, think about a relationship gone wrong that you've experienced. can you really say that if you yourself had the chance to change specific things gone wrong, that the outcome of the relationship couldn't be altered?
Yes, there is that one dark chapter from the past that still plays like a closed loop in my imagination. Here I am on the cusp of my thirties and I'm no closer to getting over it than I was in high school. You can say I've had plenty of time to gather my thoughts on this subject.

You are right about that sense of urgency that comes from a deeper appreciation for all bygone times and things. Have you seen episode 3? She's drinking water straight from the public tap and he's never seen anything lovelier. He stares with newfound awe at the plain desk where he used to sit in class beside Rei everyday. I'm pretty sure I paid appropriate attention to all the obvious things. But like Ken, it's the fleeting grace of mundane and unassuming moments that I tended to let slip by. Oh for a chance to relive youthful days but with the wisdom of later years.

After rewatching the first two episodes and then the third, I'm no longer certain how crucial it is for the Ken of the past to develop. After all, that one's not much more than a place-holder in the time-space continuum for his final production version, who just happens to be making steady and impressive progress. He's not quite ready yet, but even at this early stage I'm already satisfied that no other suitor will offer Rei devotion as desperate and thorough as the Ken of the here and now. And if he maintains his current rate of evolution, I feel comfortable assuming that by episode 10 he'll be fit and finished enough to pass quality control. My only real concern is how to prevent the unassimilated Ken-of-the-past from fatally screwing things up with Rei before neo-Ken has a chance to launch his final marketing presentation.

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 2nd, '07, 20:58

wow, kudos to the cerebrality of the discussions!! i am thoroughly enjoying myself reading what you guys talk about. i wont interfere though.. i find my thought and analyses a tad bit too confusing right now heheh. maybe in a few eps time..
The time travel speculation is total geek fun, but the underlying themes do hit home for most people. I think a lot of us are bringing our own experiences into the discussion. At some point, this exact same scenario will likely happen to you: ex-boy or girlfriend (maybe fiance) contacts you about their wedding. And then, after you and that person do the "how are you doing thing" and the "I'm really happy for you, when should I let you know?" thing and hang up, those thoughts enter your mind all day. Or all week. Whatever.

Oh and if you've ever have to do The Toast for somebody you still loved . . . that's SO not fun either. :( ;) Watch Alone In Love, Episode 19. That's how it feels inside.

In any case, I feel I understand how Ken feels because I've been in his shoes. But, I also feel I understand how Rei feels because I was in her shoes too. And I guess that's why I see the ProDai's time travel as more about Rei and her own unresolved feelings, than Ken reinventing himself for her. Because while I think Rei is looking for Ken to change/grow up, those reasons also reflect Rei's need to change and grow up too. Sometimes being so close to somebody makes you really blind.

REALLY surprised this kind of storyline isn't done like every 2 years in J-drama. SO juicy, you know? ;)

mannie511
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 11th, '06, 01:05
Location: Canada

Post by mannie511 » May 2nd, '07, 21:20

All things said, ProDai is thoroughly a junai love story with all the bells and whistles. Junai is about the sanctity of first love, and Ken rewriting history for the sake of first love. It ain't reality sure, but who actually believes Yamapi wouldn't get the girl? And is Masami REALLY going to wear a wedding dress for 10 straight episodes?
i was wondering about that part~ no way they would film the reception part each week over and over again. unless they filmed most of what they need at the wedding reception at the beginning of filming and if necessary, spot film certain parts again. cause wouldn't that be so much work?

and i agree with what ppl here are saying, by changing just certain little things each time doesn't guarantee that the outcome would change. but of course, any big changes would required Ken to Rei outright that he love her, that's the real problem ain't it? wrong timing each time.

User avatar
kilaalaa
Posts: 81
Joined: May 12th, '05, 00:53

Post by kilaalaa » May 3rd, '07, 07:11

^ Well yeah I think Ken's actions as he time travels through each photo will help him in changing Rei's feelings for him, but actually getting married will require something bigger like a confession or something...

Hmm did anyone watch Episode 3? I watched it with chinese subs, so the translation may be off...but the yosei did say that the position of Ken in Rei's heart is constantly going up, but whether they could get married by this is another question altogether...so perhaps this is a foreshadowing or something...

And also I don't know what the yosei meant when he said that "a path that seems very long might turn out to be the shortest path"...Did he say this to mean Rei and Ken, or Rei and Tada-san? (Again the Chinese translations might be off...)

Gah I don't know what I'm typing anymore...I'm just waiting for episode 4 to come out on Monday...

User avatar
Love Angel
Posts: 342
Joined: Mar 5th, '06, 18:06
Location: UAE

Post by Love Angel » May 3rd, '07, 13:20

Ep 2 was GREAT!! (I know I'm too late :lol )
I loved Ken's reactions here..funny XD

Image

Image

Image


Image


------

Image


figuring the gift part was great (athough I don't blame ken for not bein able to figure it out in the 1st time..it was hard XD)

what he wrote in the black bored was nice :wub: but it was erased by the teacher..poor ken :-(


I really felt sad for Ken when he said that he admired his teacher a lot and cried when he left the school..
he didn't expect this person to marry the love of his life!

User avatar
Natsu-chan
Posts: 134
Joined: Sep 16th, '06, 18:44
Location: Dream world
Contact:

Post by Natsu-chan » May 3rd, '07, 13:47

I can't believe that they were filming episode 4 ion April 28th! ((read that in Yamapi's niki/online diary, translated) How can they air a drama that they still haven;t completed? & They were filming the first episode during Yamapi's birthday!!!!! I can't understand their system, I feel sorry for Yamapi & the cast because they have to act in such a rush!

User avatar
non-angelical
Posts: 368
Joined: Oct 31st, '05, 11:37
Location: paris
Contact:

Post by non-angelical » May 3rd, '07, 15:20

well, it is partly because the casts had busy schedules before that it is difficult for them to fit the shooting date. I think by saying shooting for epi.4, doesn't mean that they're shooting for the whole episode that day. Coz maybe some parts already been done before and they just need some more parts.

but yeah, airing a drama that still on production is not really a weird thing. It's practiced all over the world, not just japan and not just this time.

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 3rd, '07, 15:20

How can they air a drama that they still haven;t completed?
It's not unusual for Asian dramas to run only a few weeks ahead of the airing date. In K-dramas, they often make 2 full hours one week ahead of the date, so that they can tweak the plot according to how the audience reaction goes.

But this looks like a rather expensive show, so that confirms that the most of the wedding scenes throughout the whole show have probably already been shot.

dragonpoetry
Posts: 26
Joined: Mar 10th, '07, 02:59

The declaration on the blackboard?

Post by dragonpoetry » May 5th, '07, 02:50

Hi,
I can't read Japanese. At the end of episode 2, Ken wrote something on the blackboard that Tada-san erased. What was it? Ken told Rei that he wrote a secret of hers on the board. It seems like that declaration was important....
Thanks!

Neptune222

Re: The declaration on the blackboard?

Post by Neptune222 » May 5th, '07, 04:40

dragonpoetry wrote:Hi,
I can't read Japanese. At the end of episode 2, Ken wrote something on the blackboard that Tada-san erased. What was it? Ken told Rei that he wrote a secret of hers on the board. It seems like that declaration was important....
Thanks!
It said in the sub'ed version. It said....

"An important person is sitting right beside me"

l0nEr
Posts: 36
Joined: Jan 24th, '04, 09:37

Post by l0nEr » May 5th, '07, 06:42

Is the drama tat bad? the ratings seems to like drop exponentially.... i wan to watch it though... yamapi...haha

User avatar
Natsu-chan
Posts: 134
Joined: Sep 16th, '06, 18:44
Location: Dream world
Contact:

Post by Natsu-chan » May 5th, '07, 07:53

l0nEr wrote:Is the drama tat bad? the ratings seems to like drop exponentially.... i wan to watch it though... yamapi...haha
Bad!! It's not bad at all! Well if the ratiings went down, perhaps the way the plot's tension is the reason.

In a good story, the tension is balanced, when there's a lot of tension, something should come up as a comic relief & the audience shouldn't end up saying "OMG I wish I could laugh of think of something good right now" but in PD, the tension rises so much & I feel like I want to kick a character out of the story :P Someone who makes me angry >.<

Anyway, the drama is fun, & to see Yamapi every week is like, a fangirl's candy :D
If you like Yamapi, watch it. He's more cheerful ( a bit like Akira from NWP) ^.^

User avatar
belleza
Posts: 713
Joined: Jan 21st, '07, 07:35

Post by belleza » May 5th, '07, 09:02

I think somebody mentioned that ProDai probably dropped due to baseball game. It should pick up next week as the Fujita enters the picture. Really, ProDai looks like a lock to win this season, albeit one that isn't doing that great. It's especially disappointing since Winter 2007 looked like the dramas were coming back after last season's not great results.

User avatar
GoddessCarlie
Posts: 277
Joined: May 3rd, '07, 03:43
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by GoddessCarlie » May 5th, '07, 13:07

I'm really enjoying reading what everyone has to say about this drama. As much as I love Mastujun, I have to say that Proposal Daisakusen is my favourite drama this season. I hope to contribute something more meaningful soon, lol. :)

But I'm loving this one. i'm loving the combination of adult and child. I'm loving the characters. I'm loving Ken trying to learn and grow, trying his hardest in his second chance at life. And of course I'm loving the time travel aspect (always been a favourite of mine - my favourite movie growing up was back to the future) and all the complications that brings. I'm loving the serious moments and the comedy. And the romance. It's fantastic, defiantly a favourite. :) I'm not really liking much else I've been watching this season so far, but I'm raving over this one. Can't wait for the next episode.

User avatar
GoddessCarlie
Posts: 277
Joined: May 3rd, '07, 03:43
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by GoddessCarlie » May 5th, '07, 13:12

belleza wrote:I think somebody mentioned that ProDai probably dropped due to baseball game. It should pick up next week as the Fujita enters the picture. Really, ProDai looks like a lock to win this season, albeit one that isn't doing that great. It's especially disappointing since Winter 2007 looked like the dramas were coming back after last season's not great results.
Yes, I heard that too. Plus, it was golden week so perhaps people were out doing things/traveling/family stuff etc. Hopefully the ratings will pick up this week.

User avatar
XrayMind
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, '04, 20:33
Location: Land of the Sub-Prime

Post by XrayMind » May 5th, '07, 20:40

After watching episode 3, btw thank you lunargen :wub: for the sub, I think a later episode will have the turning point picture. So far the fairy said Ken gain points with Rei after he change each of pictures, but nothing has push Rei over the edge for Ken yet. I know each of these small changes matter, but I think there is going be a big turning point.

What I am trying to say is that all these small changes add up and then plus the big turning point, and the next thing you know Ken is standing next Rei. The turning point alone will not make this happen.

From episode 3's compatibility numbers, I still think it will Eri and the teacher's wedding that Ken will be attending.

User avatar
joeboygo
Posts: 208
Joined: Jun 8th, '06, 18:52

Post by joeboygo » May 5th, '07, 21:52

Oh goody we can start talking about Episode 3 now.

We often display our truest selves when we don't think others are watching. It's a pity Rei can't possibly appreciate the kind of integrity Ken showed in this episode, but I'm satisfied that this strength of character will eventually earn him his just rewards. On first blush, the situations in the photographs may not seem to have changed much. But where the "before" picture was just another one of those unintended consequences that happened to Ken as he muddled through life the first time around, the "after" picture was something Ken deliberately caused to happen. And she knows it. That's not a small difference. And you're right XrayMind, these things do tend to add up.

Neptune222

Post by Neptune222 » May 5th, '07, 22:05

Does anyone have a link to download the sub'ed ep 03?

Thanks

User avatar
lunargen
Posts: 278
Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 16:11
Location: US

Post by lunargen » May 6th, '07, 02:23


User avatar
XrayMind
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, '04, 20:33
Location: Land of the Sub-Prime

Post by XrayMind » May 6th, '07, 02:27

I have to remind myself that 6 years ago, the Ken character is a immature high school student. Like lusting after the hot teacher and dumping his cleaning duties on Rei. Rei telling Eri that Ken matured at elementary school said it all.

Doing the flower sign up and having Rei noticing it, did tell Rei that he can be a mature thoughtful person. Of course, it's the 6 years older Ken doing it. Mikio actually ended up helping Ken in picking the new seat. Forcing Ken to tell the teacher that he wants sit at his old seat. This tells Rei that he miss having her next to him. Giving Rei his eraser did reminder them how they first met and he can still be kind to her.

Episode 3 shows that the teacher is not on Rei radar as a lover. So is still a love for Ken to lose.

Guess episode 4 will have Ken's bad luck kicks into high gear again. Of all the time to lose the second button. I am assuming that Rei also didn't get the second button at their junior high graduation.

fastat3m
Posts: 49
Joined: Mar 7th, '06, 07:16
Location: Los Angeles

Post by fastat3m » May 6th, '07, 02:35

XrayMind wrote: Guess episode 4 will have Ken's bad luck kicks into high gear again. Of all the time to lose the second button. I am assuming that Rei also didn't get the second button at their junior high graduation.
wait, they are in junior high? It has to be high school. They are way too big to be belieavable junior high kids.

Neptune222

Post by Neptune222 » May 6th, '07, 02:55

Thanks lunargen, but for some reason the download isn't working..... :-(

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest