[Discussion] Kekkon Dekinai Otoko

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auroragb
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Post by auroragb » Sep 19th, '06, 16:59

joeboygo wrote:Actually, auroragb and beer make a very good point that is well taken. But as someasianguy said, we'll just have to do whatever is necessary for us to buy into the show's premise, cuz it's more fun that way. Maybe aliens took over the bodies of those cashiers? Anyway, somebody mentioned this earlier after seeing the matching bandaids, but those two are seeing each other, it seems.
yah, the bandage was a setup for the disappearance, so when they both went missing at the same time we'd associate them with each other.
So there should be a poll question:
Did they
  1. killed each other? :O
  2. elope?
  3. went on a holiday together?
Last edited by auroragb on Sep 19th, '06, 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Rokawa
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Post by Rokawa » Sep 19th, '06, 17:01

heh lets hope epd 12 "conclude"
Kuwano somehow "end up" with the fated woman whoever she is.
but since the title is Dekinai,
wedding came, Kuwano saw, and he ran away with fear as all his values in life would be destroyed,
for example, "a man is wealthy when he can spend the money he earned anyway he want" which a married life would restrict it.
and so a special or season 2 is spawn :D

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siangsaolong
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Post by siangsaolong » Sep 19th, '06, 17:03

ep12 concluded
don't worry

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 19th, '06, 18:14

To give credit where credit is due, the bandaids where first noted by XrayMind. Nice catch man.

I say the two eloped.

And to siangsaolong:

[spoiler]It looks like we have an instant classic. Were you happy with the ending? [/spoiler]

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Post by Aulcard » Sep 20th, '06, 04:49

Well, now that it has finally come to a close, my final thought for Kekkon Dekinai Otoko is: I want kuwano's apartment. Oh, how I want it. Furniture included. .. Also a job that pays enough to support a place like that.

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Molokidan
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Post by Molokidan » Sep 20th, '06, 05:27

Does the apartment come with a free Hayasaki-sensei? If so, I'll have to battle you for it!

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siangsaolong
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Post by siangsaolong » Sep 20th, '06, 05:58

to joeboygo
It is almost exactly what I thought it would be
but what I hate the most is[spoiler] they made me watch all the commercial ad before showing me no more than 10 seconds of a couple of fish[/spoiler]

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Post by johnnie82 » Sep 20th, '06, 07:01

Sorry, I was obsessed and hammered it out. Seems it is a Frank Lloyd Wright design.

Actually found it in a minute once I knocked out the translation!!!!

http://www.nova68.com/Merchant2/merchan ... ode=S23082


Saw the price of the floor lamp at Kuwano-san's place...
Nearly give me a heartattack..... :shocked:

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 20th, '06, 07:11

siangsaolong

Ha ha, that was sneaky of them, but that was the last chance for the sponsors of the show, so I can't blame them. Besides, there are people who may find that closing scene too subtle, so that last bit of symbolism should help them sleep well.

As for me, watching that ending was like eating too much and then taking a nap - very satisfying. If memory serves, I think it's exactly what I was hoping for.

[spoiler]They managed to set things up for a special without leaving us in a lurch. So it looks like that fancy Taliesin lamp is going to stay on the set for a while longer.[/spoiler]

As an aside, I like Natsumi as much as the next guy, but what is up with her and rolled cabbage? Ugh.

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Post by kvertand » Sep 20th, '06, 07:46

I'd like to take this opportunity to give HUGE props to Natsukawa Yui as an actress...man, was she good.[spoiler]Look into her eyes just before she says "booru wo nagemashita", she's really feeling the part. Hiroshi was great, too, but I knew he would be :D This was the first drama I've seen with Natsukawa, she was very impressive.

As for the ending, it was predictable, but well-done nonetheless. I wouldn't have been satisfied seeing him match with anyone else considering he obviously fell for her long ago...[/spoiler]Best drama of the season, IMO :-)

Molokidan wrote:Does the apartment come with a free Hayasaki-sensei? If so, I'll have to battle you for it!


<lip_sync>First you must fight me!</lip_sync>

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Post by sherekahn » Sep 20th, '06, 07:56

johnnie82 wrote:
Sorry, I was obsessed and hammered it out. Seems it is a Frank Lloyd Wright design.

Actually found it in a minute once I knocked out the translation!!!!

http://www.nova68.com/Merchant2/merchan ... ode=S23082


Saw the price of the floor lamp at Kuwano-san's place...
Nearly give me a heartattack..... :shocked:


Yeah, I already set aside a savings plan for it though. Aside from actually spending that much on the lamp, my biggest fear is dealing with the inevitable time when someone breaks it , mars it, etc.

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joeboygo
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Post by joeboygo » Sep 20th, '06, 14:02

For those who like stats, Episode 12 garnered an audience share of 22.0%. Compare this to the other Fuji doramas: Sapuri - 15.3%; Dandori 10.2%.

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Kath-Lee
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Post by Kath-Lee » Sep 20th, '06, 19:52

That was awesome.
[spoiler]Especially that scene at the end when Natsumi kind of imitated his odd way of crossing the bridge. :D [/spoiler]

I'm gonna miss this show.

Btw. Happy there seem to be quite a lot of people who enjoyed KdO as well. 22% - not bad.

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Post by beer » Sep 21st, '06, 00:19

[I haven't watched ep12 yet]

I wanted to mention that whatever inconsistency I found in this series absolutely didn't affect my ability to enjoy it thoroughly this far.

And furthermore, it seems to suggest that the launch of the series was unexpectedly good so they hired more creative power into it to improve the depth.

When you look at the ratings it appears that for whatever reason viewers had quite high expectations of it at the beginning (20.2%) followed by a severe drop by a third (14.4%) that from that point on started to increase slightly, but winning back the audience, leaving the impression that the 'time-bombs' they planted starting from episode 3 started going off when the ratings reached formidable 18% in episode 9.

Of course, for all I know another series stopped showing at that point and that was the best thing left to watch. :)

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Post by TG3 » Sep 21st, '06, 00:40

The ending was okay, but I think this is one of the few series that requires a special to tie up loose ends. While we may have a good idea of what happened or what will happen.

Overall, a well written drama and very funny.

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Post by incyphe » Sep 21st, '06, 02:39

omg ending was the best episode... Very very very well done series! :cheers:

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Post by auroragb » Sep 21st, '06, 03:01

I thought it was a very good ending. Tho the lines seem strange, but because Natsukawa and Abe are such strong performers that it seems natural. This is definitely a special worth looking forward to.
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Post by ewoo » Sep 21st, '06, 05:33

I think it was a perfect ending--very consistent with the tone of the series as a whole! Easily the best drama I watched this year (which includes Densha Otoko).

I have to say, both key actors/ress surprised me in their depth--especially in the last episode! I've gained so much more respect for both! Bravo!

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Post by greyhorse » Sep 21st, '06, 06:17

Yakiniku, ramen, steak, sushi... Everything in that show looks so good. The only odd thing I found was in the last ep. with the sushi. Sake goes well with sushi, and red wine matches both rice and soy sauce, so it goes well with sushi too. Wasn't Kuwano drinking white wine with his sushi? Not that I'm much of a connoisseur, but I didn't know there was a white that would match with sushi.

Ah well, one very good drama overall.

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 21st, '06, 07:12

Tho the lines seem strange, but because Natsukawa and Abe are such strong performers that it seems natural.


I absolutely agree. If those lines were delivered by lesser talents, they would have sounded like complete hokey. What I found so funny about the situation between Hayasaka and Kuwano was that
[spoiler]they were constantly speaking in metaphors because they couldn't express themselves directly to each other. For all their maturity and sophistication, they were both rank novices in the field of courtship, and handled things about as well as a pair of highschoolers. It was at once hilarious and touching.[/spoiler]

greyhorse, wouldn't you prefer white with your fish and veggies?

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Post by auroragb » Sep 21st, '06, 14:13

greyhorse wrote:Yakiniku, ramen, steak, sushi... Everything in that show looks so good. The only odd thing I found was in the last ep. with the sushi. Sake goes well with sushi, and red wine matches both rice and soy sauce, so it goes well with sushi too. Wasn't Kuwano drinking white wine with his sushi? Not that I'm much of a connoisseur, but I didn't know there was a white that would match with sushi.

Ah well, one very good drama overall.
Maybe because he was eating fish?
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Post by dokbupgi » Sep 21st, '06, 15:08

oh! i just did ep 9 and looking forward to the rest. still waiting for chinese subtitles. wonderful wonderful series.

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Post by ewoo » Sep 21st, '06, 15:43

greyhorse wrote:Yakiniku, ramen, steak, sushi... Everything in that show looks so good. The only odd thing I found was in the last ep. with the sushi. Sake goes well with sushi, and red wine matches both rice and soy sauce, so it goes well with sushi too. Wasn't Kuwano drinking white wine with his sushi? Not that I'm much of a connoisseur, but I didn't know there was a white that would match with sushi.


Actually, younger, sweeter and more floral white wines tend to match Asian foods better--because Asian foods tend to be lighter & crisper but have strong spice flavors. Also, it's really unusal for younger Japanese to drink Sake with sushi. Most Japanese prefer just stratight green tea---or a beer---with their sushi. In fact, you might be considered "dasai"--especiall if you ask for warm sake!

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Post by auroragb » Sep 21st, '06, 15:56

dokbupgi wrote:oh! i just did ep 9 and looking forward to the rest. still waiting for chinese subtitles. wonderful wonderful series.
eh? c-subs are complete... which version are you DL'ing?

btw, what's a dasai?
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Post by Akiramike » Sep 21st, '06, 16:01

No. 1 reason there's going to be a special/season 2: Kuwano hasn't entered the adult section of the video store.
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Post by ewoo » Sep 21st, '06, 16:04

auroragb wrote:btw, what's a dasai?


unsophiscated, uncool or out of fashion...

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Post by greyhorse » Sep 22nd, '06, 01:00

auroragb wrote: Maybe because he was eating fish?


ewoo wrote:Actually, younger, sweeter and more floral white wines tend to match Asian foods better--because Asian foods tend to be lighter & crisper but have strong spice flavors. Also, it's really unusal for younger Japanese to drink Sake with sushi. Most Japanese prefer just stratight green tea---or a beer---with their sushi. In fact, you might be considered "dasai"--especiall if you ask for warm sake!


I dunno, sushi is flavoured very differently than most western fish dishes, being soy sauce based. Japan's premier sommelier Tazaki Shinnya says reds tends to go best with sushi, and I'd agree. As for sake, I found it fairly common to find people drinking sake with their sushi at fancy sushi bars in Tokyo. Green tea also works, but beer won't bring out the best of delicately flavoured sushi's like Kuwano-san would be eating. Regarding warm sakes, more and more sakes nowadays are being brewed for warm drinking so you hardly see it being ordered anywhere, regardless of the type of dish you're ordering. Daiginjyou type sakes in particular need to be chilled to be even drinkable. Those are fruity and soft with delicacy if properly chilled - completely different from the cheap sakes brewed in North America and available locally.

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 22nd, '06, 01:55

sushi is flavoured very differently than most western fish dishes, being soy sauce based. Japan's premier sommelier Tazaki Shinnya says reds tends to go best with sushi, and I'd agree.


Unlike western cuisine, there's probably more leeway for personal preferences in choosing the right wine to accompany sushi, if you must have wine at all. I myself find most reds too heavy and overbearing for all but the darkest fish in sushi. Also, I use the lighter-coloured, sweeter soy sauce for the dip, and then not very much, just to get that bit of wasabi. Perhaps if you tend to soak your sushi in the sauce, I can see why you'd go with red. But that's just me. And Kuwano.

I wonder what wine Kuwano will choose to go with his rolled cabbage.

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Post by dokbupgi » Sep 22nd, '06, 03:57

hi auroragb! thanks for the info. i just found the torrent last nite and completed downloading the final (12) episode. yay yay, looking forward to watch the last few eps tonite.

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 22nd, '06, 17:34

Hey auroragb, weren't you surprised that one of the DVD's Kuwano was interested in was called "Aurora Guardian?" Are you named after the same show?

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Post by rdoll » Sep 24th, '06, 06:30

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that the ending was mediocre. Maybe it just because I had a high hope for concluded ending. But they decided to make it hanging instead. :scratch: Anyway, overall it was a great drama. Thanks to the uploaders & subbers. You guys did a great job on this.

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Post by MoonKnight » Sep 24th, '06, 06:33

I thought the ending was proper. After all, Shinsuke was the "man who cannot get married." Sure, he did change, he did grow, but he still has a ways to go before he actually can get married.

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Post by sherekahn » Sep 24th, '06, 08:58

TG3 wrote:The ending was okay, but I think this is one of the few series that requires a special to tie up loose ends. While we may have a good idea of what happened or what will happen.

Overall, a well written drama and very funny.


Ok I guess, am I the only one who thought the very last scene pretty much told you where things were going....

To be specfic -

[spoiler]It looked a lot like a finished house drawing, open model, and even closed model that satisfied both parties was up waiting on his desk. Many windows, wide open spots (which I assume was a massive open kitchen/living room), and even a section outside set up to show a place for "lots of visitors" seemed to make up the model.[/spoiler]

Thoughts?

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Aloha

Post by winbento » Sep 24th, '06, 09:10

Thank you for your nice work....
Thank you...
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Post by lzydata » Sep 24th, '06, 14:24

All in all a satisfying ending with very memorable scenes - the lovers' quarrel, Kuwano's confession etc. I should know: when subbing it I had to watch it many times, and I'm still not tired of it! Before KDO one would never believe a line like "I came to play catch" could be that romantic. Although in the end they played dodge ball once again :roll

I really hope there is a special, not only because we all want to see more of Kuwano and the rest - OK maybe not Eiji - but not the least because the scriptwriter seems to have nicely set one up as far back as episode 7, with Natsumi's father remarrying and getting a new mother-in-law to boot. You know how these SPs always have new actors to spice things up? Still, I wouldn't want that to be so dominant it changes the drama's character.

It would also be interesting to see how Kuwano reconciles his traditional routines as a bachelor now Natsumi's really in his life. For instance, the two seem to have very different tastes in food.

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Post by ZGMF-X20A » Sep 24th, '06, 14:44

the last episode was quite good but the ending is a bit lacking I think a special episode would be nice

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 24th, '06, 17:01

sherekahn wrote:
.
Ok I guess, am I the only one who thought the very last scene pretty much told you where things were going....


Yeah, and if that wasn't enough, after the commercial break, they added the shot of the goldfish bowl. Aything more obvious would detract from the overall charm of the ending and from the general subtlety of the comedy that the show managed to maintain from start to finish.

And Izydata, they even set up a future Kaneda + Sawasaki match up. He's looking for "the right one" but obviously isn't finding her among the pretty young things he's been dating. Now that he and Kuwano are talking (Kuwano probably told him about that yakiniku place, and he wants to get involved in the kind of projects Kuwano does) Kuwano may hook them up. Looking back, I don't think Kaneda and Sawasaki had a single scene together. It's gonna happen people, just remember I said it here.

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Post by jayph » Sep 24th, '06, 17:12

one of the best jdrama i've seen IMO.

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Post by someasianguy » Sep 24th, '06, 18:25

joeboygo wrote:sherekahn wrote:
.
Ok I guess, am I the only one who thought the very last scene pretty much told you where things were going....


Yeah, and if that wasn't enough, after the commercial break, they added the shot of the goldfish bowl. Aything more obvious would detract from the overall charm of the ending and from the general subtlety of the comedy that the show managed to maintain from start to finish.

And Izydata, they even set up a future Kaneda + Sawasaki match up. He's looking for "the right one" but obviously isn't finding her among the pretty young things he's been dating. Now that he and Kuwano are talking (Kuwano probably told him about that yakiniku place, and he wants to get involved in the kind of projects Kuwano does) Kuwano may hook them up. Looking back, I don't think Kaneda and Sawasaki had a single scene together. It's gonna happen people, just remember I said it here.


i smell spinoff. but yeah the ending was so fitting for the series. and that bit of draging suspence after hayasaka-sensei stormed off on him. totally real life. but does anybody else think that kuwano spent basicly 24/7 on the plans for the house?

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Post by lala59 » Sep 24th, '06, 19:18

Doesn't the fact that he completed the designs for the house means that he's willing to propose to her? He said that he wouldn't get married until he came up with a design for the house he would live in with his important person. Also she was eager for marriage so I think she'd accept.

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Post by lzydata » Sep 25th, '06, 02:18

joeboygo wrote:And Izydata, they even set up a future Kaneda + Sawasaki match up. He's looking for "the right one" but obviously isn't finding her among the pretty young things he's been dating. Now that he and Kuwano are talking (Kuwano probably told him about that yakiniku place, and he wants to get involved in the kind of projects Kuwano does) Kuwano may hook them up. Looking back, I don't think Kaneda and Sawasaki had a single scene together. It's gonna happen people, just remember I said it here.


While my download of episode 12 was going on I took a peek at Kaneda's homepage to see what the last update will be. A very nice last touch, of course, since Kaneda is what Kuwano said and what we all know he is, a ii yatsu, a nice guy, a good fellow. Just that when it comes to relationships he takes the diametrically opposite strategy to Kuwano. You bet I'm waiting for that scene.

Indeed, Sawazaki and Kaneda had no scenes together at all. But in the last two episodes, Sawazaki has become the God of the show - she understands everybody and everything, like when she knew at once that Kuwano had been cut off in his interview, or when she said that the experiment had become more interesting. Amazing, but a bit scary. I wonder what reaction she'll have to Kaneda.

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Post by Akiramike » Sep 25th, '06, 18:21

Anyone notice the node to Aoi Tori in the final episode? hint: Hayasaka lying in bed n staring into space.
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Post by kill_mart » Sep 25th, '06, 23:31

omg i tought the ending is goin to have a dramatic scene but it turned it to be funny xD. there is no serious drama scene at all xD its all comedy haha!!! xD

i tought he is goin to get married but meh...he really didnt >.> anywayz very good series!!! xD

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Post by lzydata » Sep 26th, '06, 15:05

Moshi-mosh?? Heh, this place has become really quiet lately...

If there is one lingering question I have about KDO, it has to be about episode 6. Why did "I-don't-compromise" Kuwano agree to work on the illustrator Yuuki Shiro's house after Natsumi persuaded him? It's where she says that he's a person who can't be helped (shou ga nai hito) Remember Natsumi herself was surprised that he changed his mind.

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Post by someasianguy » Sep 26th, '06, 16:42

throughout the show, hayasaka-sensei is the only person that could change kuwano's mind about anything. look at the past episodes; her volunteering kuwano to protect michiru, her advise for clothing for the interview, and even having her checking him up in his own apartment. hayasaka-sensei is the only person that can break kuwano

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Post by Akiramike » Sep 26th, '06, 16:42

Probably her point about the fact that both of them are in the service industry and they can't/shouldn't choose their customers. You can say the only person who can get Kuwano to bend his principles is Natsumi. I guess you can call that love. :)
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Post by sherekahn » Sep 26th, '06, 16:44

lzydata wrote:Moshi-mosh?? Heh, this place has become really quiet lately...

If there is one lingering question I have about KDO, it has to be about episode 6. Why did "I-don't-compromise" Kuwano agree to work on the illustrator Yuuki Shiro's house after Natsumi persuaded him? It's where she says that he's a person who can't be helped (shou ga nai hito) Remember Natsumi herself was surprised that he changed his mind.


I think in a large part, Kuwano's changing throughout the series in response to Natsumi was why she fell in love with him. Throughout the series both of them changed, Kuwano in adapting little by little to the world thanks to mostly Natsumi and Natsumi in getting used to Kuwano.

I think Kuwano knew very early on that he liked Natsumi, it seemed to me most of his jackass comments came alongside not knowing how to respond to positive emotions (sort of pushing people away).

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Post by Silvestre » Sep 26th, '06, 16:47

sherekahn wrote:
lzydata wrote:Moshi-mosh?? Heh, this place has become really quiet lately...

If there is one lingering question I have about KDO, it has to be about episode 6. Why did "I-don't-compromise" Kuwano agree to work on the illustrator Yuuki Shiro's house after Natsumi persuaded him? It's where she says that he's a person who can't be helped (shou ga nai hito) Remember Natsumi herself was surprised that he changed his mind.


I think in a large part, Kuwano's changing throughout the series in response to Natsumi was why she fell in love with him. Throughout the series both of them changed, Kuwano in adapting little by little to the world thanks to mostly Natsumi and Natsumi in getting used to Kuwano.

I think Kuwano knew very early on that he liked Natsumi, it seemed to me most of his jackass comments came alongside not knowing how to respond to positive emotions (sort of pushing people away).

yeah i think i kinda agree with that...some guys are like that

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Post by goygakgoy » Sep 26th, '06, 17:21

To me, I feel that Kuwano liked her, but Natsumi was on the desperate side. Think about it, he had loads of girls to choose from, yet Natsumi only had one guy who was around her a lot, besides the omial guy. She had to look over all his faults just to like him, but if she had 100 great guys to choose from, she wouldn't have to bother with all his faults. This kindas cheapens the drama...but still great.

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Post by Silvestre » Sep 26th, '06, 17:26

goygakgoy wrote:To me, I feel that Kuwano liked her, but Natsumi was on the desperate side. Think about it, he had loads of girls to choose from, yet Natsumi only had one guy who was around her a lot, besides the omial guy. She had to look over all his faults just to like him, but if she had 100 great guys to choose from, she wouldn't have to bother with all his faults. This kindas cheapens the drama...but still great.

hmm...i think she already had her time in picking men...she is simply the type of girl (woman :D) who waits up for the best...she is not really simple as a woman...and she's also the intelligent type...and so that makes her choose men not as easy as most women do...she's not that desperate IMHO, even though she does feel lonely from time to time...

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 26th, '06, 18:56

Goygakgoy wrote:

She had to look over all his faults just to like him, but if she had 100 great guys to choose from, she wouldn't have to bother with all his faults. This kindas cheapens the drama...but still great.


That is one way of looking at things. But if you recall, the first time we ever saw Natsumi, she was at an omiai, and throughout the series we were reminded that she had no shortage of "safe" candidates for marriage. The only problem was, she was holding out for something special, and figuring out what that was goes into what I feel is the central theme of the drama. She strongly hints at what that special thing is in the "So what if I have a Girlfriend" episode, when she tells yet another omiai candidate that she just wanted to fall in love. So yes, just saying "true love" is a cop-out answer. Yet another hint was given when she explained why she never dated again after her first engagement fizzled out, with that whole "car in garage" analogy.Still another hint: obviously, she and Kuwano found it at the same time. If you think about it, it's probably why Kuwano couldn't resist her either.

Does anybody see it the same way? If you think you know what I'm talking about, please jump in, whether you agree or disagree. Even if you think I'm full of crap I want to hear it.

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Post by goygakgoy » Sep 26th, '06, 20:15

That's the problem with this drama...it's very contradicting. Give one point here, there is another point to consider. Don't get me wrong, by doing so, it made this drama really great.

EX) Why is Kaneda in this drama? For the most part, he just added minutes to the drama...that's it. Still, I'm glad he was in it. Just funny how he said hi to him every single episode with a surprise...haha.

EX) Why does Kuwano not care that his bro in law is cheated on his sister? Even the worst brothers would care.

Ex) Kuwano has so many women at his disposal....yet he ain't tapping anybody?

Ex) Natsumi is so picky....yet she picked Kuwano? HAHA! She wants to fall in love and get married, yet it doesn't seem like she's even trying.

With all of the contradictins and confusion, it became a great drama.

joeboygo wrote:Goygakgoy wrote:

She had to look over all his faults just to like him, but if she had 100 great guys to choose from, she wouldn't have to bother with all his faults. This kindas cheapens the drama...but still great.


That is one way of looking at things. But if you recall, the first time we ever saw Natsumi, she was at an omiai, and throughout the series we were reminded that she had no shortage of "safe" candidates for marriage. The only problem was, she was holding out for something special, and figuring out what that was goes into what I feel is the central theme of the drama. She strongly hints at what that special thing is in the "So what if I have a Girlfriend" episode, when she tells yet another omiai candidate that she just wanted to fall in love. So yes, just saying "true love" is a cop-out answer. Yet another hint was given when she explained why she never dated again after her first engagement fizzled out, with that whole "car in garage" analogy.Still another hint: obviously, she and Kuwano found it at the same time. If you think about it, it's probably why Kuwano couldn't resist her either.

Does anybody see it the same way? If you think you know what I'm talking about, please jump in, whether you agree or disagree. Even if you think I'm full of crap I want to hear it.

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 26th, '06, 23:30

goygakgoy wrote:

EX) Why is Kaneda in this drama? For the most part, he just added minutes to the drama...that's it. Still, I'm glad he was in it. Just funny how he said hi to him every single episode with a surprise...haha.


Kaneda is there to provide a comic contrast to Kuwano. Kaneda is the gregarious and flashy phony, while Kuwano is the dour but genuine article. In the beginning the contrast appeared to flatter Kaneda, but in the end it's Kaneda that ends up eating alone at the restaurant while Kuwano finds his life partner. The symbolism here can sustain a whole other discussion.

Ex) Kuwano has so many women at his disposal....yet he ain't tapping anybody?

Ex) Natsumi is so picky....yet she picked Kuwano? HAHA! She wants to fall in love and get married, yet it doesn't seem like she's even trying.


You're on to something here. Kuwano could have chosen any among the three women who had a thing for him, and he would have been fine. But the writers obviously felt that Natsumi was the way to go. What was it about her affection for him that was missing from the other two?

I feel the writers actually gave us a big hint at what they were getting at with the only other woman who managed to connect with Kuwano: the "girlfriend" played by Mitsuya Yoko. She decided to marry her boyfriend, and Kuwano seemed to empathize with her reasoning.

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Post by Silvestre » Sep 27th, '06, 00:20

goygakgoy wrote:That's the problem with this drama...it's very contradicting. Give one point here, there is another point to consider. Don't get me wrong, by doing so, it made this drama really great.

nah you just overthink the whole thing...

goygakgoy wrote:EX) Why is Kaneda in this drama? For the most part, he just added minutes to the drama...that's it. Still, I'm glad he was in it. Just funny how he said hi to him every single episode with a surprise...haha.

What? adding minutes? It's just that Kuwano has this kind of personality where he seems to despise a person, while he actually wants to be like this person, even though just for a lil bit...he's a bit jealous of this person, but he doesnt want to be like this person or he just couldnt...this person is Kaneda btw :D
goygakgoy wrote:EX) Why does Kuwano not care that his bro in law is cheated on his sister? Even the worst brothers would care.

He's not the type of person who meddles in other people's business unless it really concerns himself. and his brother in law does care bout his wife even though he has such a hobby...i think this has got to do with jap. culture...maybe it's not really bad to go to such place...im not so clear bout this...
goygakgoy wrote:Ex) Kuwano has so many women at his disposal....yet he ain't tapping anybody?

it's clear that he's insensitive...and in addition to that, he doesnt want to be in such relationship...at last he does...but after so long...and i think he's the type who stays silent bout things like this
goygakgoy wrote:Ex) Natsumi is so picky....yet she picked Kuwano? HAHA! She wants to fall in love and get married, yet it doesn't seem like she's even trying.

Picky doesnt mean that one wont choose something in the end...First of all, she's picky...and then she seems to think that love must be a fate, and so she doesnt want to try so hard for it...you know, perhaps she wants it to be natural or God-sent or something LOL
goygakgoy wrote:With all of the contradictins and confusion, it became a great drama.

it's not really like that, but it is a great drama...it basically lies on Kuwano's characters alone...and then with all the people who arent really as normal as people generally are :D
joeboygo wrote:Goygakgoy wrote:

She had to look over all his faults just to like him, but if she had 100 great guys to choose from, she wouldn't have to bother with all his faults. This kindas cheapens the drama...but still great.


That is one way of looking at things. But if you recall, the first time we ever saw Natsumi, she was at an omiai, and throughout the series we were reminded that she had no shortage of "safe" candidates for marriage. The only problem was, she was holding out for something special, and figuring out what that was goes into what I feel is the central theme of the drama. She strongly hints at what that special thing is in the "So what if I have a Girlfriend" episode, when she tells yet another omiai candidate that she just wanted to fall in love. So yes, just saying "true love" is a cop-out answer. Yet another hint was given when she explained why she never dated again after her first engagement fizzled out, with that whole "car in garage" analogy.Still another hint: obviously, she and Kuwano found it at the same time. If you think about it, it's probably why Kuwano couldn't resist her either.

Does anybody see it the same way? If you think you know what I'm talking about, please jump in, whether you agree or disagree. Even if you think I'm full of crap I want to hear it.
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Post by goygakgoy » Sep 27th, '06, 00:26

Yeah, that's a good point, but let's not forget that throughout the whole show, Kaneda was with verious women. Is it wrong that he chose to eat by himself once in a while? What Kaneda was doing was just dating and there's nothing wrong with eating by onself here and there.

How did u know that Kuwano found his life partner? He said he loved her...but he didn't really know her. They just walked together at the end...doesn't mean that they life partners.

joeboygo wrote:
Kaneda is there to provide a comic contrast to Kuwano. Kaneda is the gregarious and flashy phony, while Kuwano is the dour but genuine article. In the beginning the contrast appeared to flatter Kaneda, but in the end it's Kaneda that ends up eating alone at the restaurant while Kuwano finds his life partner. The symbolism here can sustain a whole other discussion.
.

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Post by goygakgoy » Sep 27th, '06, 00:42

Silvestre

I do not think I was overthinking...the contradictions was just right there.

I think Kuwano despies everybody. I can see your point with Kaneda, but overall, I think it was unnecessary, but it was great cuz it was funny, which was probably the main reason.

Maybe you are right about Japanese culture and keeping one's mouth shut? I hear that in Japanese society, cheaitng is okay...it's just that nobody want to hear about it. Sorry, i'm looking at it from an American point of view and I think 99.99 % of guys here would do something about it.

I'm not talking about relationships, but SEX! Most guys don't resist beautiful women...yet he does. That's just contradicting human nature. Then again, I hear 10% of Japanese men in their 30s or 40s plus are virgins?

My point about being picky is that she's picky, as having high standards, yet she chose Kuwano?? If this story was the other way around where the sex is different, imagine a guy is picky and picked an ugly girl at the end. I'm not personally saying she's picky, but that's what somebody earlier said, and I just find that very contradicting.

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Post by joeboygo » Sep 27th, '06, 01:23

I do not think I was overthinking...the contradictions was just right there.


There's nothing wrong with that. I consider this a thinking man's drama, after all. If anybody is overthinking here, it's probably me.

My point about being picky is that she's picky, as having high standards, yet she chose Kuwano??


Exactly. She once described her ideal man to the nurses, and Kuwano is the 90 degree opposite of what she described. Do you have any theories as to why she would go against her own inclinations to choose him?

Let's compare how the women viewed Kuwano. Sawasaki admired his talent as an architect and has worked with him for eight years, so she understands him better than anybody. Michiru saw in him a stable provider and protector, who also got along with her dog. Hayasaka had to look up his anus the first time they met, and during all their subsequent encounters he behaved like a complete jerk. Among the three she had the least use for him. So why did she fall for him?

Bear in mind that there was a lot about her that he didn't like either, yet he couldn't resist her. Why was that?

Finally, why would the writers endorse the most volatile combination possible?

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Post by raven_frost » Sep 27th, '06, 03:55

joeboygo wrote:Exactly. She once described her ideal man to the nurses, and Kuwano is the 90 degree opposite of what she described. Do you have any theories as to why she would go against her own inclinations to choose him?

Let's compare how the women viewed Kuwano. Sawasaki admired his talent as an architect and has worked with him for eight years, so she understands him better than anybody. Michiru saw in him a stable provider and protector, who also got along with her dog. Hayasaka had to look up his anus the first time they met, and during all their subsequent encounters he behaved like a complete jerk. Among the three she had the least use for him. So why did she fall for him?

Bear in mind that there was a lot about her that he didn't like either, yet he couldn't resist her. Why was that?

Finally, why would the writers endorse the most volatile combination possible?


I haven't finished watching Kekkon Dekinai Otoko, but having seen ten episodes, I guess the Hayasaka-Kuwano combination was just waiting to happen. Kuwano treated Sawasaki nothing more than a trustworthy and dependable colleague, and saw Michiru purely as a friend and neighbour. Doesn't the fact that he chose to confide in Hayasaka during his many consultations at the hospital point to the fact that despite his apparent "dislike," he was gradually warming up to her as the drama progressed? In fact, I thought that his visits to the hospital to see Hayasaka had become so habitual that there just might have been a possiblility that those conditions he had, sometimes, were just mere guises to see her? And is it just me, but didn't he seem exceptionately sarcastic and mean whenever he jibed Hayasaka?

As for Hayasaka, although her encounters with Kuwano were less than pleasant and he was absolutely unlike her dream man, for some inexplicable reason she felt drawn to him. As she got to know him, she saw beyond that facade he kept up to the rest of the world, and with the subtle changes in Kuwano, realised that he was actually a nice guy beneath? After all, ideals don't always match reality.

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Post by someasianguy » Sep 27th, '06, 04:11

imho, i think kuwano still thinks like a boy, abiet a boy with OCD. throughout the series hayasaka-sensei was his primary "Love" so to speak, but as somebody unaccustomed to that feeling, he did what any young teenager with a crush does, insults them or does something to irritate them. it was his way to deal with the feeling.


goygakgoy wrote:
How did u know that Kuwano found his life partner? He said he loved her...but he didn't really know her. They just walked together at the end...doesn't mean that they life partners.



They both knew they loved each other when he confessed. but because he couldnt think up of the floor plans for "their" house he couldnt get married. but them meeting up was a "sign" and coinicdently the same time when he finished the floor plans. it was a ploy to reveal to her he was ready.

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Post by choco_panda » Sep 27th, '06, 05:18

^
That is what I was thinking too. He just didnt know to show his feeling, so he always ended up insulted her.

As for Hayasaka, I think it is also that she didnt meet someone new and Kuwano always around her. So she became kinda use to have him around and actually fell for him at the end.

Anyway, I think this drama, is definately the best out of this season. There was not a single moment when I think,,, duh this is boring.

Plus, I found Kuwano quite similar to my dad. But ofcuz, his character is more extreme lol
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Post by lzydata » Sep 27th, '06, 07:45

goygakgoy wrote:Maybe you are right about Japanese culture and keeping one's mouth shut? I hear that in Japanese society, cheaitng is okay...it's just that nobody want to hear about it. Sorry, i'm looking at it from an American point of view and I think 99.99 % of guys here would do something about it.


On Nakagawa and his, um, activities at the kyabakura... I do hear many Japanese men hang around these places as part of business or social obligations, so in that sense it's part of the culture. But is it just me who thinks he wasn't really serious about it? He probably just finds such places a refuge from Keiko's "PAPA!"-ing. The one girl whom he was close to, Yuki (Mitsuya Yoko), ditched him quickly once she found someone more "presentable" - Kuwano.

As for why Kuwano seems unconcerned about Nakagawa's fooling around or flirting around, I would say that's because Kuwano isn't close to his sister. Whether that's because Keiko is always nagging at him about marriage - she's worse than his mother! - or some other childhood trauma - as Sawazaki asked out loud in the first episode - who knows? On the other hand, Nakagawa and Kuwano certainly go some way back; at some point it's said that Kuwano was the one who introduced the two of them. Maybe they met in college, or Nakagawa was Kuwano's doctor for a time, but he was the closest thing Kuwano had to a male buddy until Kaneda happened. Kuwano is more like Nakagawa's brother than Keiko's, really.

raven_frost wrote:As for Hayasaka, although her encounters with Kuwano were less than pleasant and he was absolutely unlike her dream man, for some inexplicable reason she felt drawn to him. As she got to know him, she saw beyond that facade he kept up to the rest of the world, and with the subtle changes in Kuwano, realised that he was actually a nice guy beneath? After all, ideals don't always match reality.


Yes, how useful are these ideals or standards? It was in episode 6 that Michiru said she wanted someone with money, status and looks (okane to chii to rukkusu), only to get very angry when Natsumi recommended Kuwano and Kuwano recommended Kaneda. Obviously money, status and looks aren't enough when you're on different wavelengths with the guy, seen at least twice in the case of Kuwano.

In that same conversation at the manga-kissa Natsumi's moderate/modest (hikaeme) standards were: someone with common sense, who values harmony among people (the example being someone who will step in to resolve an argument), and who has a similar lifestyle. Kuwano looks down on mere common sense, priding himself on his vast knowledge and ability to get his way. As Natsumi also said, he starts arguments rather than resolves them. At least he has a similar lifestyle.

Anyway, your view that reality doesn't follow your ideals is endorsed at the end of that episode by Natsumi herself. Michiru says she has a new condition, that more than money or status, she wants someone who has eyes only for her. Natsumi too has a new one, that she has to understand what the guy's thinking. In that subtle way episode 6 foretells a bit of episode 12 :-)

someasianguy wrote:imho, i think kuwano still thinks like a boy, abiet a boy with OCD. throughout the series hayasaka-sensei was his primary "Love" so to speak, but as somebody unaccustomed to that feeling, he did what any young teenager with a crush does, insults them or does something to irritate them. it was his way to deal with the feeling.


Yes, there is an element of that. But sprinkled throughout the show are unmistakeable signs that Kuwano does care about her and what she thinks of him. He just doesn't pick them up himself until Natsumi throws the ball at him.

Take the end of episode 5 (the one where Natsumi barges into his apartment). Kuwano is resting at home and finds the leftovers made by Natsumi and Michiru in his fridge. One of my favourite scenes.

(Kuwano reads:) "Eat this after you've finished your work. Michiru made the kinpira; I made the cabbage rolls." Hmph, self-assertion. (He eats a cabbage roll.) Too salty. And over-boiled. She'll have trouble getting married with this! Hahaha.


He might say that, but (1) he eats the cabbage rolls first, and (2) he continues eating them even after he complains about their taste. One of the things I love about this drama - it does more showing than telling.

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Post by Akiramike » Sep 27th, '06, 07:54

1) Kaneda is what the girls were talking about in the manga cafe: the rich, good looking, kakoi king. The opposite Kuwano. I'm glad that they didn't make him the antagonist and try to steal Michiru/Natsumi or something. I must say, this is one show that doesn't need a villain to make the hero.

2) Kuwano doesn't care cause his brother in law did not cheat. Going to caberet clubs is not cheating, unlike what women claim. Its essential to entertain clients and help those cute girls pay their bills. Just because one is married does not preclude one from talking having conversations with women who are pleasing to the eye.

Seriously, he understands that his sis is a handful and that the bro-in-law has very limited freedom. Plus the more that the bro-in-law suffers, the more that it reaffirms his belief that single life is best!

3) I don't think Kuwano had so many women at his disposal until Michiru and Natsumi came into his life. He's perfectly settled into his bachelor lifestyle. Plus, its not like the 3 women threw themselves at his feet like those harem mangas. I can't stand how the heroes in harem mangas don't just nail all the girls.

Most of the series, Michiru thought he was plain weird. Natsumi was reluctant to express her feelings and Sawazaki (if she actually had a thing for Kuwano) gave way when she realised that Natsumi had more influence on him than she did.

4) I don't think Natsumi is picky. Its just that at her age and working hours, its hard for her to meet ppl. I think she can see past Kuwano's facade cause he's very similar to her father. Perhaps she likes men who are rough and clumsy on the outside but soft on the inside.
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Post by Yukster » Sep 27th, '06, 08:28

Regarding Kaneda: I think in the scene where he was eating by himself, just confirms what Kuwano realized... that Kaneda was similar to Kuwano in some ways... single, looking for something, but valuing his own time and space at the same time. And whats wrong with a guy eating by himself anyways??

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Post by choco_panda » Sep 27th, '06, 09:25

^
There is nothing wrong with a guy eating by himself.But the fact that he is yakiniku by himself, that what made it strange.

Yakiniku is more like a place for couple or family and friends to gather. If it was like a cafe or something, that would be different story.

And with the Kaneda thing, I absolutely agree with you.
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Post by joeboygo » Sep 27th, '06, 10:52

And whats wrong with a guy eating by himself anyways??


Unlike Kuwano, Kaneda didn't like being alone, or wasn't used to it. He said so himself when he made that comment about parties. So eating yakiniku solo was out of character for him. But he appeared to be having a good time, so I suspected it was something new he picked up from his new friend Kuwano.

As to Nakagawa-sensei's extra-curriculars, I think there was also an element of pity on Kuwano's part. We all know Kuwano viewed marriage as akin to imprisonment, and he was doubtless aware that his sister kept Nakagawa on an extremely short leash. Moreover, since he introduced them, he probably feels at least partially responsible for Nakagawa's predicament.

raven_frost wrote:
After all, ideals don't always match reality.


I would agree with you except to the extent that that statement implies some sort of compromise. In Natsumi's case, I don't believe she "settled" for Kuwano after resisting intense social pressure to marry all this time. At the risk of sounding smarmy, I think the story indicates that Kuwano was just what Hayasaka had been waiting for.

Izydata wrote:
Yes, how useful are these ideals or standards?


Exactly. More to the point, what is this drama trying to say about conventional notions of marriage (in Japan)?

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Post by moderagio » Sep 27th, '06, 16:00

expectation, compromise... That's a lot of plans. IMHO the love between hayakasa and Kuwano did seem very logical. I mean they do follow the same way between confrontation and respect.
They do irritate each other in the beginning. There's a clash between them concerning their way of life. Kuwano don't respect hayakasa's prescriptions. Then they gain respect from each other.
Firstly Kuwano acknowledge Hayakasa in his own way. He values her company more and more as proves his frequent visits at the hospital (quickly he doesn't ask anymore for his broher-in-law for example) and he goes as far as expecting her at the fireworks. And Kuwano intrigues more and more Hayakasa (and Michiru too) as shows their enless talks about him. It seems she begins to understand that he is a little more that a bad-mouthed architect.
As she understands a Little more him, she begins to handle him better and he falls more. Look a the way she's talking about him to the nurses. He's entertaining her in his way ! As they tell sometimes, Kuwano is handsome... His only problems are his way of thinking (and the look too). As showed in the episode with Hayakasa's father, she has developped a soft spot for him. And the frequent fights (way more softer than at the firsts ), shows that they try to make acknowledge each other more clearly. I mean what's the point of the lies about the Miai and the girlfriend ?
The ending follows in a very logical way as they realize that they have felt for each other without noticing it.

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Post by Akiramike » Sep 27th, '06, 21:09

moderagio wrote:(quickly he doesn't ask anymore for his broher-in-law for example)
Good observation. But it could be because his brother in law isn't that good of a doctor. Remember in 1st episode he was asking for Nakagawa sensei and Natsumi asked him which one and Kuwano replied the incompetent one or something like that.

I wonder what the nurses thought of Kuwano's frequent visits. I'm sure Nakagawa-sensei would have heard some rumours about it. Perhaps he spread the news to Kuwano's mom, lol.
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Post by joeboygo » Sep 28th, '06, 05:48

So I was trying to watch the backlog of other dramas on my drive that accumulated because I kept replaying Kekkon. I think I just made it past the opening credits of Sapuri Ep. 3 before I found myself watching Kekkon again for perhaps the umpteenth time. I'm iin serious need of an intervention here. :cry:

Anyhoo, surprise, surprise I found something new (well, to me). In this play-through, I focused on Kuwano's penchant for designing his houses around the kitchen. Obviously, there's some significant meaning behind that because it comes up again and again, but I honestly don't feel that l I've nailed it down yet. I noticed that all the women who saw his work exhibited the same visceral reaction. The spaces he creates tends to fill them with longing for a signifant other. The effect is so potent that Sawasaki the spinster could not ask him to design something for her.

I get the idea that intimate emotions Kuwano couldn't share directly with other people are expressed in his work. Natsumi probably understood this, so when she wanted to get him to open up to her, the route she took was to ask him to conjure a house for her. I think she wanted him to talk about it instead of actually making one, but that's what he did anyway. So my question is, what unspoken feelings, if any, does Kuwano vent through his designs? Why do these sentiments prevent him from imagining himself or his loved ones in the houses he creates for strangers? And why the kitchen instead of the bedroom, as Kaneda would have it?

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Post by someasianguy » Sep 28th, '06, 05:59

i think the kitchen is centered because kuwano sees how people can just sit down and and unwind from the hard day's work. something he wished he had, subconsiously. he's fine with everyday chores and cooking for one. but inside he wants to have somebody take care of him. the kitchen is the center of the home because the woman who is in charge of the kitchen makes the house a home. the bedroom, while i think it was a ploy for kaneda to get his jollies from the 3974798234 girl he dated, is impersonal and unuseful. the kitchen has a major purpose in day to day life. it's important to the family as a whole.

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Post by Akiramike » Sep 28th, '06, 09:21

joeboygo wrote:So I was trying to watch the backlog of other dramas on my drive that accumulated because I kept replaying Kekkon. I think I just made it past the opening credits of Sapuri Ep. 3 before I found myself watching Kekkon again for perhaps the umpteenth time. I'm iin serious need of an intervention here. :cry:


Yes, KDO has raised bar so high that every other show is just an excuse to pimp a johnny or gravure idol.

As for Kuwano's emphasis on kitchens, its because he actually cooks and knows what features are important. Not only that, he enjoys the cooking and as we saw, is highly skilled.There are two things he does at home: cook/eat and conduct his music. So in a sense, he understands what housewives look for in kitchens. Its funny how Natsumi dislikes chores while Kuwano takes pride in doing them.

Another idea I have is that Kuwano shuns human contact, except when it comes to food. Notice that he only goes to Michiru's place when there's food involved. He goes to his sister's for food, although he knows they're going to nag him to get married. He was eager to have yakiniku with Eiji and Sawazaki.

I think this is the first show we've not seen the bedrooms of the main characters. I would have loved to see Michiru's bedroom. :)
http://hamsapsukebe.blogspot.com - ramblings of a jobless bum

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20centuryboy
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Post by 20centuryboy » Sep 29th, '06, 14:07

This drama is a little slow to get inside but once you're gaught up you're really hooked...

Actors are really good, especially Hiroshi Abe ... and Ken Chan :D

That girl who plays Michiru's friend is really scary, I used to call her "the skull"! She reminds me ofImage

MoonKnight
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Post by MoonKnight » Sep 29th, '06, 18:34

20centuryboy wrote:That girl who plays Michiru's friend is really scary, I used to call her "the skull"! She reminds me ofImage


HAHAHAHA I thought the same thing!! Skeletor!! There's just something.. strange about her.

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airskape
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Post by airskape » Oct 1st, '06, 09:00

lmao nice representation of michiru. i also thought there was something..weird or strange about her throughout the whole series

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makino_sanbr
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Post by makino_sanbr » Oct 5th, '06, 18:04

I just started watch this drama.. i wtched until ep.03 and so far i'm really liking...
I dying to see the other ep.soon and come to read all comments about this serie..
I just love the main actor... Hiroshi Abe
All his faces are the best..

raven_frost
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Post by raven_frost » Jan 18th, '07, 04:11

KDO DVD and a special DVD for Ken-chan have been released!
Image

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