[Discussion] Hana Yori Dango (Meteor Garden Manga) jdrama

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

How would you rate Hana Yori Dango?

Life-Altering (5)
341
42%
See it (4)
328
40%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
56
7%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
56
7%
Only if you have time (2)
26
3%
STAY AWAY (1)
12
1%
 
Total votes: 819

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hmm_yeh
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Post by hmm_yeh » Dec 20th, '05, 23:51

@ carolL: aww! I loved that scene!

on another note... that is very expensive! $180 [US] .. whewww.. I think I'll wait for a sale or something.. my college life budget wouldn't go well with purchasing this series.. but damn! I really do want it. :cry:

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CarolL
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Re: Sad Love Story?

Post by CarolL » Dec 21st, '05, 10:48

pankanshe wrote:Has anyone thought that this drama is a "sad love story" for Rui? The other F4 guys all ends up with a girl in the end except for Rui (or Lei). Rui was not able to capture Shizuka's or Makino's heart... never saw it this way till recently. Rui was always a lonely character.... and stayed lonely. Any other comments on this?
Not sure if this is under spoiler. Rui did eventually got together with Shizuka in the ending. **She came back to Japan for him, obviously that shows she called off her engagment with the French guy. Rui has always loves Shizuka, he only admires Makino. I don't think he ever loves Makino like the way Dom only loves Makino.

The only couple I feel sad for was Makino and Dom because they parted with each other. Also, you never know if there is a 2nd Season or a special soon. That's why I feel like this is their (Dom and Makino's) ending to their LOVE STORY in HYD drama.

I believe the special won't even come out until 2-3 months later like Gokusen.
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Hana Yori Dango 2: Is it that difficult to be TOGETHER??
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Post by CarolL » Dec 21st, '05, 10:53

THANK to those that commented on my wallpaper. I was supposed to make the wallpaper more graphical, but in the end I don't want to make the picture too BUSY and MESSY. So, the SIMPLE the BETTER because I LOVE HOW that scene came out with the sunset and the airplane and THEM of course.

Also, thanks for explaining the ratings to me because I only know how Chinese and Korean dramas ratings works.

22.4 for the rating in the last ep in HYD is like a 34.5 in Chinese HK drama rating then???
That is so GOOD!!
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Hana Yori Dango 2: Is it that difficult to be TOGETHER??
*ThAnKS to ureshi~ & carshrimp for HYD 2 Avatars*

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Post by inutikidude » Dec 21st, '05, 10:59

I will have to give it a 4 after seeing/reading so many versions of hyd xD
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Post by auroragb » Dec 21st, '05, 15:35

Just found out that Abe Tsuyoshi is half Chinese, I was wondering why his Chinese sounded better than his Japanese :lol:

Any rumours yet on when the second season will be? I hope that they don't pooch it by making it just a movie. I hope it's an entire season, preferably in spring :)

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Re: Sad Love Story?

Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 21st, '05, 17:16

pankanshe wrote:Has anyone thought that this drama is a "sad love story" for Rui? The other F4 guys all ends up with a girl in the end except for Rui (or Lei). Rui was not able to capture Shizuka's or Makino's heart... never saw it this way till recently. Rui was always a lonely character.... and stayed lonely. Any other comments on this?
Hi!
I don't know what adaptation of Handan you are talking XD
So well..about in HYD j-Drama
Rui is not alone, Shizuka returns as like in the anime.
I don't know on the continuation of MG... because i just watched MG ..
didn't like MG2... because for me its just not HYD.. so I just watched until ep10.
But in the end of MG Rui (Lei), Soujiro (Ximen) and Akira (Meizuo) are alone in the end.
I don't know but seems that 'Meteor Rain' develops some relationships to Ximen ( that is based in manga "One upon n a life time"), Meizuo ( that is nothing to do with the manga)...
And Lei didn't have one.. but was something about 'time' problem.
Well.. what I'm trying to say is that.. for me is not a "sad love story" just to Rui..
but for Soujiro and Akira too...

But about "Lonely"
on the manga rui is alone...But Akira and Soujiro too.
If you read "Once upon in a life time" and "Crescent Moon" you will see.
To tell you the True all F4 are lonely persons...
They are extremely lonely...
Rui has not makino or shizuka...
Soujiro lost his chance to live a beautiful love...
Akira don't have some that understand him...
The differential is that Doumyoji that among they, was the one who never had love issues,suddenly develops this crazy love from Makino.
And if there is some good thing about the amnesia plot is how Doumyoji gets the conclusion when his lost his memory
that the part that he don't remember was what change his life...
A life that was full with other felling fear about him, scary people, and a very very lonely place.
For Doumyoji, Makino is the one who chance this world.So he is not lonely anymore.
I can't not laughter in see that the first one to notice that was Rui...
amazing, isn't?
At the end Rui is alone, but he is so important...
Only he understand Tsukasa and Makino relationship.
Just he understand that
the only one who could be in a equal level, to be with Doumyoji is Makino. Without her He is just a wild and lonely beast.
I find so cute the NY part when rui declare his love to makino,
and at the end she said that she loves Doumyoji...
and Rui reply:
"I know, you don't have to yell... Strange but i don't care if were are not together or going out... if you can still smile this is the mostly important"
Is sooo cute...
It's just like her in the beginning...
She didn't care if he was with her or Shizuka.. if he still could smile...
is just a beautiful feeling of friendship.
..
O_O I write too much....

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Post by Keit » Dec 21st, '05, 21:53

5...

Sooo good drama, just my taste. Although I didn't like the acting of "Sakurako"
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Post by BokuWaShinigami » Dec 22nd, '05, 02:30

....I really don't know what to think about this last episode!

On one hand, I thought it was REALLY cute and sweet (if not a tad bit on the cheesy side). :D On the other hand, there were some parts that I thought were sort of...strange. For example:
-Akira ending up with Sakurako (this was just plain weird for me O_O;; )
-Soujirou running away from Yuki
-Shizuka returning to be with Rui
-etc.
So I guess you could say I'm in between really loving the end and "meh, it was okay." :-) I have enjoyed this drama SO MUCH! <3 It's sad to see it over, but I'm optimistic about the special and possibly a second season!
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Post by Souriance » Dec 22nd, '05, 02:50

Tell me that there is a special :pray: !!!

I was deeply touched by the last episode...

No way it's so short :-(

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 22nd, '05, 05:04

Souriance wrote:Tell me that there is a special :pray: !!!

I was deeply touched by the last episode...

No way it's so short :-(
Really... Too Short... >_<
:cry:
Last edited by makino_sanbr on Dec 22nd, '05, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jaycee05 » Dec 22nd, '05, 06:03

I reallyyyyyy do hope there is a special :cry:
This is one of the most enjoyable dramas I have ever watched. None of the episodes has dragged,IMO. It was spontaneous and beautiful.
I wubbbb it so much :wub:
From Kindaichi, Momo, Sawada, and now to Domyouji-sama...Jun has grown up to be a really fine young actor. I'll be looking forward to his future dramas.
And oh yah, Inoue Mao is my new hero. :heart:
Tsukushi's talent show reminded me of Sandra Bullock from Ms. Congeniality. Although Tsukushi's didnt look like basic self defence. That was wrestling, dude! :lol

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Post by godmode » Dec 22nd, '05, 06:10

Am i the only one who thinks Shizuka looks kind of...ugly?
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Post by jaycee05 » Dec 22nd, '05, 07:51

godmode wrote:Am i the only one who thinks Shizuka looks kind of...ugly?
Sister: Shizuka looks like a man huh
Me: OMG, she does look like a man! (Real opinion: What the hell? I think she's gorgeous)
Sister: No! I said , She looks so BEAUTIFUL( ok, I swear "man" and "beautiful" sound the same in our dialect, or u could say I have bad ears XD)
Me: What'ya talking about? Of course, I said beautiful. :whistling:

Anyway, after that incident, I started to think Shizuka does look like a man who went under the knife :fear:
But I think she was pretty on those huge posters. She reminds me of J-Lo on those pics.

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Post by Kirari » Dec 22nd, '05, 12:45

I find Shizuka pretty in the beginning, but in eppy 9 she had those caterpillar brows. Image
:fear:

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Post by joori » Dec 22nd, '05, 13:04

i think she looks pretty even in the last episode..

does any1 know if there is gonna be a second season?? coz this one was NOT enough and things just can't end like that..

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Post by cel » Dec 22nd, '05, 13:41

LOVE...LOVE...LOVE HYD. :thumright: I can still feel the pain felt by Domyuji. Hoping for a 2nd season or special. :wub:

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :w00t:

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Post by Lowest » Dec 22nd, '05, 15:53

the elbow drop was the funniest thing ever :lol

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Post by angel26_j » Dec 22nd, '05, 16:24

OmG!!! :w00t: :w00t: It's Finished!!

:roll I reckon dat HYD is a little to short.... Is it because it's a J-Drama... :whistling: Dunno why, but most J-Drama dat I watched are less than 15.... Some may be good... :-) but Hana Yori Dango should be longer!! :glare:

The relationship in HYD is too hurried and it leave a less deeper impression to the to me... :| If it is longer by 6 episodes then It will be much" better!! SO I'M VERY VERY VERY MuCH Hoping for a special or even Hana Yori Dango 2.... :wub: As Long as it will not be as cheesy as Meteor Garden 2... Please NOT!!! :glare:

The Finale was quite surprising :w00t: because It's very very different compare to Meteor Garden loL.... 'n I haven't watch the anime.... well it's just weird cuz

Tsukasa had to leave :-( and shizuka return :crazy: is just not.....Rite....
It's very surprisen :O :P

But Overall I like the story :D and the feel very much!! :wub: :thumleft:

Waiting for more of MatsuJun and Oguri Shun in another drama together.... :whistling:

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Post by meme104 » Dec 22nd, '05, 16:31

joori wrote:i think she looks pretty even in the last episode..

does any1 know if there is gonna be a second season?? coz this one was NOT enough and things just can't end like that..
Well, in one of the interviews they mention that there will be a second season.
Can't wait :whistling:

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Post by debstuh » Dec 22nd, '05, 17:00

--
Last edited by debstuh on Mar 9th, '10, 07:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 22nd, '05, 17:13

meme104 wrote:
joori wrote:
Well, in one of the interviews they mention that there will be a second season.
Can't wait :whistling:

REALLY??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :w00t:
Which one?????? :salut:
OMG please tell me...
Don't give me fake holpe!!!!! I just too evil!!!!
:cry:

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Post by hmm_yeh » Dec 22nd, '05, 17:18

You guys should also read the manga as both dramas did follow [to an extend] the events in the manga... Please do not read the spoiler if you have not finished reading the manga.. as it might ruin it or you... don't blame me.....
Hana Yori Dango, the ending definitely followed the ending of the original HYD, which of course is the manga. Meteor Garden on another hand, though it followed most of the sequence of the manga, the ending was downplayed [maybe perhaps at the time they finished shooting the 1st seaon, the manga was still not finished..?!?! -- just read read the time slot of the drama and when the manga ended]. It gave the audience a "happy ending" or so that's what it's suppose to make the audience think .. until of course the second season..

anyway.. what I'm saying is that Hana Yori Dango really gave us the true ending. Him leaving abound for NYC is what really happened in the manga. Though after reading the ending of the manga, it left me dissappointed and depressed, but reality is that people really do need to step up if they have responsibilities. I've learned in my classes that Asian families are very close knit, and at times people would choose their family first than their happiness [their love]. They are not westernalized, but more traditional where as you need to be more responsible and adhere to your families needs [of course nowadays, that might have changed for most families, being that overtime, things do change]. That being said, Kamio-sensei definitely painted that picture to me when she ended the manga with him leaving for family reasons. However, after watching the ending to Hana Yori Dango [dorama], I understand it more fully, though the reason are quite different. What I'm saying is, even though Domyouji left b/c he lost the wager rather than the family responsibilities[manga], it ultimately boils down to the same fact that he will leave Makino, for the mean time ofcourse, with the promise of coming back.

I don't want to be too repititive, so this is the final thing I'm going to say.. The dorama captured the ending of the true manga perfectly, though it was for different reasons. And if you have finished the manga and was disappointed with the ending, after wathing the ending of the dorama, you will understand more, and become more accepting of what really happens.

Like I said... I hope you did not read this if you haven't finished the manga.
I know Kathleen! I shouldn't write this, but after reading so many posts.. I just feel like I need to say it.

On one hand, I'm definitely rooting for a second season. I'm just hoping they stay true to the manga, as in get into the other events that were missed with more depth. I'm also hoping that they will have the same casts as the main cast and Nanako [as Tsubaki] have definitely grown on me.

I think I've read in another post somewhere here that Kamio-sensei was thinking of picking up the Hana Yori Dango and writing a continuation of it. A second season with what Kamio-sensei writes would be great.. but that might mean a longer wait for a second season of HYD.. maybe that idea isn't so great afterall.. haha.. Along with everyone else here, I don't want to wait long for a second season :D

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Post by joori » Dec 22nd, '05, 19:52

makino_sanbr wrote:
meme104 wrote:
joori wrote:
Well, in one of the interviews they mention that there will be a second season.
Can't wait :whistling:

REALLY??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :w00t:
Which one?????? :salut:
OMG please tell me...
Don't give me fake holpe!!!!! I just too evil!!!!
:cry:
i didnt say that...some1 changed my saying..

i was asking if any1 knows if there will be a second season..

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Post by inutikidude » Dec 23rd, '05, 06:28

I thought Meteor Garden was a bit better than Hana Yori Dango. Must be cuz it was wayyyy longer -_-;. The thing i really really liked about Hana Yori Dango was the ending. Like hmm_yeh said
the jdorama followed the manga really well. I liked the fact that Tsukasa did leave even tho i was crying like it was the end of the world XD. As for meteor garden, i guess a happy ending is nice ^^
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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 23rd, '05, 18:15

Joori oh.. its ok.. but everybody woulb be happy if was true... ^____^
inutikidude wrote:I thought Meteor Garden was a bit better than Hana Yori Dango. Must be cuz it was wayyyy longer -_-;. The thing i really really liked about Hana Yori Dango was the ending. Like hmm_yeh said
the jdorama followed the manga really well. I liked the fact that Tsukasa did leave even tho i was crying like it was the end of the world XD. As for meteor garden, i guess a happy ending is nice ^^
I don't know... i really like MG because i could see my favorite manga as real persons...
but for me HYD Drama is another level...

About the end...
Unfortunately.... This Sad, opened and incredible hearth break end...
is the true end of HYD.
:cry: .
And that is why everybody are so excited to see what Yoko kamio will show to us next year, when she continue HYD manga

And me, and my sister also cried like was the end of the world... XD

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 24th, '05, 16:42

Someone was in another HYD thread.. and talk about where was this thread....
I was so curious to count how many threads HYD has...
so this is my list

HYD has on D-Addicts Forum Index -> Japanese Entertainment

1-[Discussion] Hana Yori Dango (Meteor Garden Manga) jdrama
2-Hana Yori Dango VS Meteor Garden
3-Doumyouji Tsukasa vs Hanazawa Rui
4-TO ALL HANA YORI DANGO FANS
5-HANA YORI DANGO - FREE STREAMING :O
6-[HYD]Doumyouji's ringtone
7- jun matsumoto vs shun oguri
8-Moved: Hana Yori Dango Live Action OST
9-How Much You Like HYD?????
10-Moved: Hana Yori Dango Special feat. HG Razer Ramon! (In 1 hour!!)
11-Hana yori dango movie

And other that are related to HYD like:

Is it true that Matsuda Shota is Matsuda Ryuhei's brother?

If you don't count other foruns here in D-addicts like

D-Addicts Forum Index -> Subtitles

Hana Yori Dango [Eng Subs] (1-9 Complete) ( 158 pages)
Hana Yori Dango (Ohsama no Buranchi 11-19-05 & 10-15-05)
Hana Yori Dango [Thai Subs] (Ep 1-6)
Hana Yori Dango [Arabic sub] (Ep1)
Hana Yori Dango [Portuguese Subs]

And we are not talking about Meteor Garden...
That is HYD too...

( and of course that i don't look everything... :roll )

Amazing, huh?
O_O

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Post by cubicu07 » Dec 24th, '05, 19:42

Yeah! HYD was great! I personally didn't see the original manga or anime and MG, but had a rough idea of the storyline. But the jdrama HYD was great! It's a mere 9 episodes but it actually doesn't seem to be rushed or lacking in character development.

Luv the acting, and I think Oguri Shun as Hanazawa Rui is super cool! Love Inoue Mao as Makino Tsukushi too!

Anyway, I have no nihongo background, so can someone please tell me either the Hiragana or romaji of Tsukushi's favourite phrase in the drama? She always says "No way" which sounds like "arienai itsuno" or something like that. lolz

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Post by techie » Dec 24th, '05, 20:08

Ok... so finally found the correct discussion thread.
Pfiiuuuh 28 threads later :D

So could someone explain this sub line for me?>
In one episode Domyouji says "Boys and girls are like ichi and nichi huh?"
Some pun on ichinichi??? please explain someone.
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Post by meiohsetsuna » Dec 25th, '05, 02:28

I noticed someone commenting on our swearing...[Nya!Fansubs that is]...Our translator prefers to leave the swearing in, rather than softening the language. While there may not be a direct swearing equivalent in Japanese, it can still be felt. We kinna also think that since HYD was shown at 10pm in Japan, and there was almost a rape in the first episode.. its not exactly PG. That's just our personal form of expression, and ya'll are free to simply ignore us. 8)

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Post by techie » Dec 25th, '05, 02:42

meiohsetsuna wrote:I noticed someone commenting on our swearing...[Nya!Fansubs that is]...Our translator prefers to leave the swearing in, rather than softening the language. While there may not be a direct swearing equivalent in Japanese, it can still be felt. We kinna also think that since HYD was shown at 10pm in Japan, and there was almost a rape in the first episode.. its not exactly PG. That's just our personal form of expression, and ya'll are free to simply ignore us. 8)
I can't speak for all but I would say "Keep it as close to the real thing as possible"
After all, many are using softsubs to learn the language and it wouldn't be true to the script, nor the language if it was censored as such.
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Post by angelamaria » Dec 25th, '05, 12:34

hmm_yeh wrote:You guys should also read the manga as both dramas did follow [to an extend] the events in the manga... Please do not read the spoiler if you have not finished reading the manga.. as it might ruin it or you... don't blame me.....
Hana Yori Dango, the ending definitely followed the ending of the original HYD, which of course is the manga. Meteor Garden on another hand, though it followed most of the sequence of the manga, the ending was downplayed [maybe perhaps at the time they finished shooting the 1st seaon, the manga was still not finished..?!?! -- just read read the time slot of the drama and when the manga ended]. It gave the audience a "happy ending" or so that's what it's suppose to make the audience think .. until of course the second season..

anyway.. what I'm saying is that Hana Yori Dango really gave us the true ending. Him leaving abound for NYC is what really happened in the manga. Though after reading the ending of the manga, it left me dissappointed and depressed, but reality is that people really do need to step up if they have responsibilities. I've learned in my classes that Asian families are very close knit, and at times people would choose their family first than their happiness [their love]. They are not westernalized, but more traditional where as you need to be more responsible and adhere to your families needs [of course nowadays, that might have changed for most families, being that overtime, things do change]. That being said, Kamio-sensei definitely painted that picture to me when she ended the manga with him leaving for family reasons. However, after watching the ending to Hana Yori Dango [dorama], I understand it more fully, though the reason are quite different. What I'm saying is, even though Domyouji left b/c he lost the wager rather than the family responsibilities[manga], it ultimately boils down to the same fact that he will leave Makino, for the mean time ofcourse, with the promise of coming back.

I don't want to be too repititive, so this is the final thing I'm going to say.. The dorama captured the ending of the true manga perfectly, though it was for different reasons. And if you have finished the manga and was disappointed with the ending, after wathing the ending of the dorama, you will understand more, and become more accepting of what really happens.

Like I said... I hope you did not read this if you haven't finished the manga.
I agreeeeeeee. But--
I really wished that he had left because of responsibility instead of losing the bet with his mom. I suppose it's also a sign of his (newfound) maturity that he's going along with the outcome instead of trying to fight it, but in the manga I was very impressed that he left, on his own. "I decided, as Domyoji Tsukasa." I think that's very impressive and shows a lot of how Tsukushi has influenced him for the better. But I suppose they didn't have all that time for that. I wonder if they thought that the live action might not catch on that much?
hmm_yeh wrote: I think I've read in another post somewhere here that Kamio-sensei was thinking of picking up the Hana Yori Dango and writing a continuation of it. A second season with what Kamio-sensei writes would be great.. but that might mean a longer wait for a second season of HYD.. maybe that idea isn't so great afterall.. haha.. Along with everyone else here, I don't want to wait long for a second season :D
Yeah, it's been confirmed, and should be out sometime next year, I think! I personally don't mind, as I love the manga and am just plain glad that there's going to be a sequel (when I thought there was never going to be one!). However, with the amount of things they have left out of the dorama, they could definitely make out a new season with what's left. :3 Or maybe be in contact with the mangaka or... something... LOL!

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Post by heppy » Dec 26th, '05, 17:00

i finally fin watching the last epi of hanadan today.. it's so sweeet.. esp the last scenes of douyoji n makino at the airport.. the epi very funny as well.. i love the ending.. hoping for a sequel too! ^^

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 01:18

Whoo! Finally finished the last episode. After the mild suckage that was Episode 8, this was easily the best episode of the series. Wow. Thoughts . . .
The adaptation of the TOJ storyline was absolutely brilliant. It definitely looked like something out of Ms. Congeniality, and who knew Makino had such a devastating elbow drop. That was Makino through and through.

And that was F4 through and through. Throughout the show, we never really got a good feeling about Makino's effect over the entire group. But the scene where she was playing with those 4 boys kinda made me tear up. Such a beautiful evocation over what made Makino so special to not only Domyoji and Rui, but everybody. And it showed that each of the F4 were lonely too and starving for love too.

For me, much of the appeal of this adaptation was how Makino fought with not only Domyoji, but the crazy world in which she belonged, first the school and Domyoji, and then Domyoji's mother. Her feelings for Rui came from that. Her feelings for Domyoji came in spite of that. I loved how the entire TOJ pageant, the way the audience turned on her and yet with Domyoji's support, she won over everybody. Her celebration marked that world's acceptance of Makino and her personal victory. And her speech in English was incredibly lovely.

But, I loved how that same sequence showed what we knew all along; not only was Makino a victim of that mad world, but so was Donymoji. He was every bit as trapped as she was. If not just to her mom, but his obligations to his family.

Loved Jun's performance over the phone with Inoue, when she's telling him that everything will be alright. Even if you read the manga, that scene was quietly heartbreaking and full of love.

I loved the whole Casablanca-meets-Graduate vibe of the last Makino/Donmyoji scene. Jun's acting beautifully portrayed both the macho posturing and the more powerful childlike longing, when Donymoji says "admit it. you love me", and then upong hearing Makino finally admitting her love, he pulls her in like a young boy. It's beautiful, beautiful!!
And, for me, this part completed Donmyoji's transformation from tortured, gothic man-child of his castle-prison, to simply a young man who fell deeply in love and discovered his humanity in the process. I loved how *this* adaptation never tries to soften Donmyoji, never tries to make him anything but the brutally passionate man he is. Even when he encourages Makino, his rough words are unmistakably Tsukasa. And that made Jun's emotion, that chest-crushing longing to hear those words, more tender. It was beautiful.

The cinematography was wonderful, wonderful! Although I didn't much care for the 70s sunset kissing scene, the lighting work for all before that was perfect. Plus the way the camera gently swivelled around our couple, and Makino chasing down the plane. Sigh! The Saturn Necklace scene, though a bit different here, was beautifully executed.
Finally, I really relished Mother Donyomiji's performance. Unlike the Sakurako performance, she never goes into full-on Cruella De Ville mode. And it made her slight change of heart at the end, and that smile of fighting a adversary worthy as she, that was delicious. She is, after all, the harbinger of all.
I felt the first half of the season was significantly stronger than the 2nd half. Too much of the 2nd half seemed a struggle to bridge the storyline from the triangle to the Makino vs Mom showdown. And part of me suspects that they had episode 9 all figured out and mostly written and storyboarded before they went on with the 2nd half of the season.

The finale was every bit what HYD deserved. Makino won. Love won. But there had to be a price, a harsh price, and the bittersweet quality of this ending speaks to what HYD has always been about. And for all of the fantasy of this story, reality finally descended.
Domyoji is going to NYC because he lost the bet, but you could also tell that Domyoji had also accepted his station in life, and that part of his growing up was to accept his responsibility. He had come to understand that he had been a source of suffering for Makino for so long, and that even when he couldn't control what his mom did or what Sakurako did, the best he could do was stand by her side, so long as she wanted to stay in this world. He was as trapped as she was. But, knowing now the strength of her love as well as his own, what Rui knew all along, it could all work out. There could be a happy ending. He grew up to be a man. And Makino
And, in shooting this, they captured everything that young love should be about. The honesty. The empathy. The courage against all odds. The tragic certaintity. This could be the last moment we have together, and that all beautiful moments with the one you love should mean this much, should be bathed with such kind of sunset, should be two people screaming against each other, and then for each other, and then requitted.

Love should mean this much.

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 01:24

Amazing, huh?
And isn't this the largest drama thread in the J-Drama section too? Yikes!
, with the amount of things they have left out of the dorama, they could definitely make out a new season with what's left. :3 Or maybe be in contact with the mangaka or... something
Definitely. They could just . . .
Introduce Kazuma over here and Shigeru over there, and also set up the Yuki/Sochiro storyline. Heck, give our Domnyoji a case of amnesia too!
I'm not sure how a 2nd season would work. I'm not keen on a special actually. What more can be done for an hour long show?

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Post by raspberihevn » Dec 27th, '05, 02:02

Spoilers for ending
HANA YORI DANGO EPISODE 9 - ENDING [SPOILERS!!!]

Quotes from HYDML Yahoo Group:

1) In the latest issue of Margaret released on 12/5, Kamio-sensei made a personal announcement that she will be writing a sequel to HYD in 2006!
Supposedly she hinted around in her free talk in Cat Street Vol.3 that she was gaining interest in doing so and we can't be happier to hear this news so soon. Whether it'd be a serialization or a side story, it is uncertain at this time.
However, some readers claim it'll be a serialization.

2) And is anyone else, like, really impressed by how the writers of the HYD j-dorama have been able to compress the manga and arrange events that occured at
completely different times into one? I think it's amazing!

3) Oooooh my gosh! I'm still wiping away the tears that,of course, ensued while watching episode 9 of HYD. It was *amazing*! Finally, one version finally decided to do the beauty pageant contest, and it was so cute!
The ending was *so* much like the manga, the open-endedness of it. I still think it's so amazing how the writers were able to press and compile all of the important storylines (and still leave room for believable character growth) into just *nine* espiodes! And, actually, doesn't it seem like there's going to be a second season? Because it said 'see you, soon!' at the end of epi 9, as well as the fact that
there *are* so any unanswered questions and events...yayness! I'm so psyched! I can't believe it's already been, like, 10 weeks since this first aired, it seems like just yesterday we were all excited for the very first episode!
I really *heart* Inoue Mao...as well as Matsumoto Jun--now I know why girls everywhere shriek for him, *teehee*.

4) I really liked Matsumoto Jun's portrayal of Tsukasa. ^_^ I wasn't sure whether he would be good in the part when I first learned about the cast, and he exceeded my expectations! =) I saw him in a couple dramas before HYD and wasn't a fan, but he does grow (or endear himself) on you. I like him more because of this drama. ^_^

5) About the last ep: I cried so much.. just like the end in manga. I never really was over the ending; good prodution; expensive settings; good actors! Inoue Mao was so a good surprise, I really like her as Tsukushi. The sweet parts make the best X-mas present!





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Beware of Spoilers:

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 27th, '05, 02:26

slippyepic As always your post is beautiful... you do make beautiful texts...
I remember all over again...
**I will watch again the last ep**
I agree with you in everything...


Wow.. is the longest thread too? Cool isn't?
raspberihevn wrote:Spoilers for ending
HANA YORI DANGO EPISODE 9 - ENDING [SPOILERS!!!]

Quotes from HYDML Yahoo Group:

1) In the latest issue of Margaret released on 12/5, Kamio-sensei made a personal announcement that she will be writing a sequel to HYD in 2006!
Supposedly she hinted around in her free talk in Cat Street Vol.3 that she was gaining interest in doing so and we can't be happier to hear this news so soon. Whether it'd be a serialization or a side story, it is uncertain at this time.
However, some readers claim it'll be a serialization.

2) And is anyone else, like, really impressed by how the writers of the HYD j-dorama have been able to compress the manga and arrange events that occured at
completely different times into one? I think it's amazing!

3) Oooooh my gosh! I'm still wiping away the tears that,of course, ensued while watching episode 9 of HYD. It was *amazing*! Finally, one version finally decided to do the beauty pageant contest, and it was so cute!
The ending was *so* much like the manga, the open-endedness of it. I still think it's so amazing how the writers were able to press and compile all of the important storylines (and still leave room for believable character growth) into just *nine* espiodes! And, actually, doesn't it seem like there's going to be a second season? Because it said 'see you, soon!' at the end of epi 9, as well as the fact that
there *are* so any unanswered questions and events...yayness! I'm so psyched! I can't believe it's already been, like, 10 weeks since this first aired, it seems like just yesterday we were all excited for the very first episode!
I really *heart* Inoue Mao...as well as Matsumoto Jun--now I know why girls everywhere shriek for him, *teehee*.

4) I really liked Matsumoto Jun's portrayal of Tsukasa. ^_^ I wasn't sure whether he would be good in the part when I first learned about the cast, and he exceeded my expectations! =) I saw him in a couple dramas before HYD and wasn't a fan, but he does grow (or endear himself) on you. I like him more because of this drama. ^_^

5) About the last ep: I cried so much.. just like the end in manga. I never really was over the ending; good prodution; expensive settings; good actors! Inoue Mao was so a good surprise, I really like her as Tsukushi. The sweet parts make the best X-mas present!





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Beware of Spoilers:

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I'm so happy with this manga news... \o/
I already waiting...
wonderful pics..
:cry:
Just make me want to cry again... >_<
[/b]

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Post by aoi_hana » Dec 27th, '05, 04:44

I want more~!
Currently Addicted to: Densha Otoko, Lunch Queen, Boko Dake no Madonna :wub:

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Post by CarolL » Dec 27th, '05, 04:58

Great news from Jun jdorma forum:

"Matsujun will be in another movie next autumn. Its based on a comics about the forbidden love between 2 siblings who are twins. Its called "Boku wa imoto ni koi wo suru". "

Source: http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20051 ... 18-spn-ent

****Not sure if this is confirmed. I don't mind he's on the big screen again. Hopefully the girl in this movie isn't as old as the lady in Tokyo Tower. I want to see a younger love story!!
I guess there ain't a 2nd season of HYD soon!! It will probably take 3 months to film this movie if Jun decided to starred in it.
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Hana Yori Dango 2: Is it that difficult to be TOGETHER??
*ThAnKS to ureshi~ & carshrimp for HYD 2 Avatars*

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 05:04

Oooooh my gosh! I'm still wiping away the tears that,of course, ensued while watching episode 9 of HYD. It was *amazing*! Finally, one version finally decided to do the beauty pageant contest, and it was so cute!
You know, I wasn't initially too keen on them doing the TOJ to finish out the HYD show. My reservations seemed confirmed with episode 8, since it looked the whole episode laboured to set up the circumstances for TOJ as well as "bring them closer together." Makino seemed out of character; or, rather, I never got a sense from Inoue Mao the sense of horror and anger she ought to have brought to her character's losing her home.

So, it completely surprised me how the writers adapted TOJ as a sort of "summing up" of all the themes in HYD. Her interaction with the 4 boys summed up her relationship with and effect on the F4. Sakurako finally treated her like a friend. The Trio finally gave her some respect. Makino had to face all the "Weed Haters" (i.e. the heckling audience) one more time, and with Donmyoji's support, win them finally over on her "Everywoman" virtues. The tears in Makino's eyes was the tears of being finally accepted by the people who made her life a living hell all those years. She finally belongs.

TOJ ends up being a perfect capoff to the show, I thought; she wins the show, wins the heart of everybody (including Evil Mom), and then Makino and Donmyoji can live together happily ever after. And, besides, we all "knew" the show was only going to cover the first half of the manga anyway. This would be the perfect placemarker should they do another season.

But, then, Makino didn't win. The mom wins. What!?! And that, my friends, is when the finale goes from being merely satisfying to a tear-gushing, hopelessly hopelessly romantic and resonant Hana Yori Dango. That finale elevated the show, because in those last 10-15 minutes, EVERYTHING in Makino's and Donmyoji's heart gushes out. The Saturn necklace. The starry puzzle. Their pain. Their struggle. Their faith. Makino running like a woman who knows she may never see the love of her life again. Donmyoji holding her like a man who went through a war, so that he could reach her heart on the other side of hell. And the understanding that they had no more time to waste; it was now or never.

Where we, starving HYD fans, have waited all bloody season for moments of honesty and tenderness between our couple (the one key flaw with a show that simply didn't have enough time to give us the epic sprawl that defined Makino/Donmyoji), we get a shot, a pure ecstastic shot, of their love up our veins. At this point, Jun solidifies his Donmyoji as a love-starved, hopelessly sincere man-child, and Inoue finally marks her Makino as a romantic heroine who can lose herself completely in love. We get to finally, truly bask in the essence of this couple, and feel the terrible, bittersweet release, knowing that he is leaving, and their future is still uncertain.

I would even say that this ending was finest of all the HYD endings so far, even surpassing the manga's circumstances for Domnyoji leaving for NYC. That is how truly wonderful the last 20 minutes of that finale is. It was either now or never. They chose forever.
I really liked Matsumoto Jun's portrayal of Tsukasa. ^_^ I wasn't sure whether he would be good in the part when I first learned about the cast, and he exceeded my expectations! =) I saw him in a couple dramas before HYD and wasn't a fan, but he does grow (or endear himself) on you. I like him more because of this drama. ^_^
And let me add, that to the end, his wardrobe is still unbecoming for a Donmyoji. What was great about Jun's portrayal was that from the beginning, he never wavered from showing Donmyoji as the child that he was. While we may kinda wonder whether he kinda fell in love with Makino arbitrarily, we never doubted that the way he loved her was always true to who he was. He didn't become a different character, so to become "compatible" or "romantically acceptable" for Makino; Jun merely peeled back the layers of Donmyoji until we found the gem in the rough.

Jun really knows how to use his voice to show anxiety, pain, longing, random stupidity, as well as anger and, uhm, more anger. If his Donmyoji isn't really the hulking frat-prince of the manga, he nevertheless substituted his lack of physical presence with a keening intensity that projected size.

Inoue was great. Her Makino (when it let her show her Weed fighting style) is a definitive manga Makino.
This HYD was WAY out of my wildest dreams.
****Not sure if this is confirmed. I don't mind he's on the big screen again. Hopefully the girl in this movie isn't as old as the lady in Tokyo Tower. I want to see a younger love story!!

I guess there ain't a 2nd season of HYD soon!! It will probably take 3 months to film this movie if Jun decided to film it.
I don't think it would be realistic to start something up. If they want to do a special, that'll be shot sometime in the spring. And because they chose the ending that they did, it would probably more sense to see what Kamio does with the sequel before committing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kamio just ends up contributing a basic storyline for the 2nd season, and that they do a "simulcast" between the manga and the live-action show.

Question to all:

Which was your favorite subtitled version? I'm kinda looking to put together a "pernament" edition of HYD, but I've only seen Furransu's translation. Which was closest to what was said?

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Post by angelamaria » Dec 27th, '05, 06:23

slippyepic, your posts about HYD and the dorama are pretty much what I felt myself. :D
slippyepic wrote:Which was your favorite subtitled version? I'm kinda looking to put together a "pernament" edition of HYD, but I've only seen Furransu's translation. Which was closest to what was said?
Furransu's is pretty good, actually -- I now wish I had saved the raws instead of deleting them after making the caps and just archiving the hardsubs on CDs. (I might end up downloading the others again, meep.) There were times when I liked the hardsubs (SARS) better, that it made more sense, but there were also times that the soft subs were better (like the time when Tsukushi insulted Tsukasa's hair -- the hardsubs, I think, said she was talking about his temper/impatience, but Furransu's made fun of his curly-curly hair (haha) which is *VERY* Hanadan, IMO).

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 07:29

Thanks angelamaria! :D

Found this over at the jdorama board. Fybabe translated a fan letter from a widow who was really touched by Jun's performance. I'd have posted it earlier, but I couldn't stop laughing at Tricky's Aunt Jemima posts! :D

http://jdorama.com/viewtopic.7658.2640.htm
Thanks from the bottom of my heart. This drama brought back the warmth of human feelings to my cold heart.

My husband died last christmas eve, and since then, I've lived each day without a feeling of touch in my heart and of course, nowhere close to a flutter. While recalling the process where my son and I were being healed by Jun throughout the drama... I became aware that I was being attracted to Jun's charm.

In the drama, his happy face, lonely face, angry face, gentle face, no matter what face, is great.

If it's not for Jun, this won't be such a great series, right?

"Pleasure is a possibility." My son is also becoming happier. We started searching for all Jun's past shows. We started to like Arashi very much. As mother and son, we share the pleasure of buying their cds and dvds together. Who knows, my husband in heaven would be surprised... but, I'm truely thankful to Jun kun.

Thank you for for giving me back the happiness and joy of being touched and all the wonderful sensations that was once lost to me. From now on, I will always love/support Jun, Arashi.

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Post by angelamaria » Dec 27th, '05, 07:39

Aww, yeah. Someone (I think Fybabe still) also posted that one of one of the livejournal communities I'm part of/watch. It's a very sweet fan mail. ^_^

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Post by godmode » Dec 27th, '05, 08:09

i actually liked the drama a little better than the manga. Tsukasa and Tsukushi's characters really pissed me off in the manga.
in the manga, Tsukasa isnt really likeable at all until way later in the volumes. and Tsukushi is incredibly naive and a doormat, that seems to forget about almost being raped, tortured and bullied. (whats with shoujo manga women being so damn indecisive anyway?). I was honestly hoping Tsukushi would pick Rui in the end.
i though Jun Matusmoto's Tsukasa was a lot better. and although they didnt really have time to develop secondary characters, i thought the condensed version was written quite well.
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Post by angelamaria » Dec 27th, '05, 08:29

Actually, for me, I was pissed with Tsukushi more because she was waffling between Tsukasa and Rui more than "forgetting" about being almost raped/tortured/bullied. I think the manga is really not just your ordinary plain love story but more of both Tsukasa and Tsukushi's maturing.
I remember in the manga that later on, Tsukushi said something like it was Tsukasa who "broke" her, from someone who was pushed around and wore pigtails and stuff to someone who was able to stand on her own. In the same way, it's Tsukushi who gentled Tsukasa down, who made him more human. I think that's really one of the biggest points of the story -- that both characters, seemingly in opposite ends, come together halfway and grow up into mature individuals.
*is at work, so might not be making much sense*

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 11:13

Berserk, eh? Nice. :D
I actually liked the drama a little better than the manga. Tsukasa and Tsukushi's characters really pissed me off in the manga.
I go through periods of frustration with Makino myself. She may have fists of legend, but she could be such a "Keitaro" (Love Hina ) when it comes to her boy harem. :D
That being said, I did love how Makino was often deeply moved by both of these guys. Yesterday, I gave my younger cousin my HYD anime set. While watching a little of it with her, it really surprised me, having now watched the J-drama, to see how much both guys meant to Makino and her survival in that environment in the original story. We're not just talking about boy-girl love; it is as if both guys were lifelines to her sanity. What's missing in the J-drama is how Makino's indecisiveness was spurned from her insecurities and sensitivity, even gratitude, toward both men.
One of my favorite story arcs in the HYD anime is the basketball part, when Domyoji and Makino were enemies again. There's this one scene when, the night before the game, Domyoji and Makino meet. At one point, he smiles at her and more or less acknowledges that fighting seems to be what they do best. Makino responds with this priceless, teary smile. On one hand, it makes no sense because he was still trying to expel her. On the other, it did speak to the depth of their bond and her feelings toward their bond. Then, later, when Rui is doing the "save Makino" white knight routine, you hear Makino reflect on how all of these people (including Domyoji), had meant to her through it all.
I kinda have to block out the rape thingie because, in real life, I would never, EVER forgive a guy for doing that to me. But, at least for me, the whole Sakurako storyline really changed my feelings toward Donmyoji. I'm just glad the J-drama watered the rape storyline down because there would have been no way to redeem Donmyoji in such a short season. Actually I have much stronger feelings about the Shigeru/hot spring storyline; it never quite sat well with me.
I was honestly hoping Tsukushi would pick Rui in the end.
For me, it was kinda cruel how Kamio wrote that first date between Rui and Makino. I mean, it was Blind Date uncomfortable. After that, there was just no way I could see them together.

Mao-chan and I are on the same page with Rui, though. Domnyoji is great, but I actually liked Rui more for most of the manga. Heh heh, Kathleen will like that. The Makino-Rui-Shizuka storyline was what kept me interested in HYD until Rui took off.
I think the manga is really not just your ordinary plain love story but more of both Tsukasa and Tsukushi's maturing.
The Saturn necklace says it all. In fact, if you follow astrology, M+D actually makes a lot of, erm, "astrological sense" . . .
In Astrology, Saturn is the planet that sort of defines the commitment, test and roadblocks in your life. It's often associated with career and family planning because it molds the role of fidelity and responsibility to life.

Two signs are ruled by Saturn: Capricorn and Aquarius (co-ruled with Uranus.) In the manga, Makino is characterized as a Capricorn, and Domnyoji as the Aquarius. Another way of saying this is that Makino and Donmyoji represent the two sides of how we take responsibility for our future, what really matters, what we do to find our way. And "hana yori dango" is a cautionary saying about how what really seems important is often not the same thing as what really is.

The Capricorn personality is one who views life as a social climb; they live and learn, going from often humble beginnings and then through tenacity, pragmatism, planning and the support of others, get to the top. They are literally the weed that survives anything, but they also have an acute sense of social status. Thus, a Capricorn who is around people of high status will necessarily feel inferior or unaccomplished, even as they are fighting their way for acceptance. Insecurity and anxiety drives them along with their aggressive determination. In matters of love, it is hard for them to give in to their feelings, because they're trying their best to be pragmatic and realistic about everything. For them, it can be extremely hard to get past differences in class and status when they are with somebody. But, status consciousness is what drives them and they can overcome anything. This is kinda Makino in a nutshell.

The Aquarius personality is one whose life is lived entirely by his rules. Saturn makes them serious about their life goals. But Uranus makes them a little crazy too. They resist changes except of their own making, and when they see challenges, they rebel willfully. Aquarians are often the most individual and often weirdest of the bunch. But they are fair and will see the other side of the picture. This is because an Aquarian is an idealist; his life is a set of ideals in action, and in a sense that singular attention to principles and intellect can also make him cruel or misoanthropic. Nevertheless, they believe in only their values and need absolutely nobody or nothing to validate them. They test people; they judge people; most of the time, they understand but are not particularly attached to friendship, social convention, or relationship. But when they fall in love, it is as if their entire mind is made for that one thing. Their complete faith in their beliefs is also reflected in their complete faith in another person; when they love, they can love completely, social rules be damned. Just don't try to change their strange mind. And this is Donmyoji.

Makino is strong and determined; her practical soul reflects the sweat and tears that go into making life happy. But Donmyoji is fearless and bold; he is the integrity and fidelity that aspires for the best kind of life. In Makino, Donmyoji finds a kindred force to ride the ship forward. In Donmyoji, Makino finds the starry map to steer the ship together.

From an astrological perspective, the Saturn Necklace represents the journey of life, its trials, its rewards. Saturnian love, the love of Makino and Donmyoji, is that which endures all until the pot of gold is found at the end of the rainbow. They'll survive NYC; it's written in the stars.

And as one final useless knowledge side note: the zodiac opposite (i.e. opposite personality) of Capricorn is Cancer. Guess who manga-ka Yoko Kamio is? That's right; she's a crab. Is Makino Kamio's shadow, or the kind of person she admires most? Boggles the mind man . . . In fact, other shoujo Fruit Basket and Kare Kano are written by Cancer manga-kas. So, yes, if you're Cancer, a disappointed romantic, and you like comics, get thee a pen and get rich! :D

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Post by CarolL » Dec 27th, '05, 11:18

More news on Jun's NEW MOVIE:
Source: Written by fybabe 12/27/05 from http://www.livejournal.com/users/fybabe/


(This is again translated from an online chinese translater... but it's pretty accurate la...)

"Matsumoto Jun movie 'My Sister' forbidden love

Matsumoto Jun, 22, from popular band Arashi, will be starring in the movie as the lead role for the first time. This is a live action movie based on the popular shoujo manga 'I'm in love with my sis' by 青木琴美 sensei. It's a challenging role in which he would be in forbidden love with his twin sister. Again we will yet witness his sexy prowess that we saw in 'Tokyo tower'.

the story originates from the popular shoujo manga with 5 million books sold. The manga has a nickname 'My Sis', which is most popular among secondary school girls.

Matsumoto is now the hot topic after his depiction of the unique character, domyoji tsukasa, from tbs popular drama series 'hyd'. this drama, with an average rating of 19.7% (in the 关东 area,video research), is now the leading drama series of the oct-dec period.

the cast should feel, 'it is great being able to be part of a unique and popular cast of characters'. it's gonna be exciting to watch how painful yet beautiful the tense relationship between the brother and sister develops.

the mangaka, aoki sensei, has always noticed (more like adored i think ^^) matsumoto. in fact, the lead character in her other work is named 'jun'! "Suggoi desyo! Matsujun desyo!! Matsujun! I was so excited i nearly fainted!" lol...

Just like the controversial title, the story is about 18yr old older twin bro falling in love with twin sis. the story is also riveting with it's explicit sexual depictions. the movie live action and casting work started at the end of summer this year.

Toshiba Entertainment and Shogakukan Inc. will be producing this movie. 安藤庹 of the movie, 'blue', in 2003, who won great acclaim at the moscow film festivals, will be supervising this project.

In the Shogakukan Inc. 'shoujo manga' editorial staff where the original is serialized, 'it's a painful project as it's a sandwich between reason and passion'.

"matsumoto san leaves a strong impression with his expressive sharp eyes, which could depict very fine details. He could act contradicting roles" was the reason why he was chosen. they are still casting for his sister. will be 'crank in' (starting work) next spring. predicting to launch next autumn.

----------------------------------------

sheesh... i think he's stuck with the manga hero halo for life... i hope not...
but the character sounds challenging. yay!!!!!!
jun will make it tense and exciting to watch... sounds like another complex character ne!!!
i'm gonna be so proud of him again!!

heart heart heart heart.................
Last edited by CarolL on Dec 27th, '05, 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Hana Yori Dango 2: Is it that difficult to be TOGETHER??
*ThAnKS to ureshi~ & carshrimp for HYD 2 Avatars*

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 27th, '05, 11:30

Jun falls in love with his twin sister? You mean, an actress is out there who has have jeri-curls, wear Michael Jackson's clothes from the Thriller tour, and punches like a sissy? Ewwww!!!! :P

Yup. Gotta love incest shoujo. Inspirational. And I bet THAT kissing scene will have lots of, uhm, "backlighting" too. :whistling:

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 27th, '05, 16:51

slippyepic wrote: Domnyoji is great, but I actually liked Rui more for most of the manga.
I always have been a Domyouji fan...
For me he love her so much...
I never... ever.. liked Rui X Makino.
to tell the true.. i starded read HYD manga... and i stopped at vol 01 cap-4...
Just because i was think that Makino will be with Rui...
"Just another cinderella story.. with a crying in love girl...
and a cool, cold, handsome guy..." :glare:
but after some time i download wrong vol.22
And i saw..
Domyouji running after makino crying, yelling her name..
and her crying asking for the bus go faster...
but in the end She could not be there.. She run to he...
And Yell at him XD
And i loved..
I just read all HYD manga.. because they are Makino and Domyouji...
They are different...

And.. God.. how this astrology thing make sense to HYD...
It's really this... O_O
slippyepic wrote:
The Saturn necklace says it all. In fact, if you follow astrology, M+D actually makes a lot of, erm, "astrological sense" . . .
In Astrology, Saturn is the planet that sort of defines the commitment, test and roadblocks in your life. It's often associated with career and family planning because it molds the role of fidelity and responsibility to life.

Two signs are ruled by Saturn: Capricorn and Aquarius (co-ruled with Uranus.) In the manga, Makino is characterized as a Capricorn, and Domnyoji as the Aquarius. Another way of saying this is that Makino and Donmyoji represent the two sides of how we take responsibility for our future, what really matters, what we do to find our way. And "hana yori dango" is a cautionary saying about how what really seems important is often not the same thing as what really is.

The Capricorn personality is one who views life as a social climb; they live and learn, going from often humble beginnings and then through tenacity, pragmatism, planning and the support of others, get to the top. They are literally the weed that survives anything, but they also have an acute sense of social status. Thus, a Capricorn who is around people of high status will necessarily feel inferior or unaccomplished, even as they are fighting their way for acceptance. Insecurity and anxiety drives them along with their aggressive determination. In matters of love, it is hard for them to give in to their feelings, because they're trying their best to be pragmatic and realistic about everything. For them, it can be extremely hard to get past differences in class and status when they are with somebody. But, status consciousness is what drives them and they can overcome anything. This is kinda Makino in a nutshell.

The Aquarius personality is one whose life is lived entirely by his rules. Saturn makes them serious about their life goals. But Uranus makes them a little crazy too. They resist changes except of their own making, and when they see challenges, they rebel willfully. Aquarians are often the most individual and often weirdest of the bunch. But they are fair and will see the other side of the picture. This is because an Aquarian is an idealist; his life is a set of ideals in action, and in a sense that singular attention to principles and intellect can also make him cruel or misoanthropic. Nevertheless, they believe in only their values and need absolutely nobody or nothing to validate them. They test people; they judge people; most of the time, they understand but are not particularly attached to friendship, social convention, or relationship. But when they fall in love, it is as if their entire mind is made for that one thing. Their complete faith in their beliefs is also reflected in their complete faith in another person; when they love, they can love completely, social rules be damned. Just don't try to change their strange mind. And this is Donmyoji.

Makino is strong and determined; her practical soul reflects the sweat and tears that go into making life happy. But Donmyoji is fearless and bold; he is the integrity and fidelity that aspires for the best kind of life. In Makino, Donmyoji finds a kindred force to ride the ship forward. In Donmyoji, Makino finds the starry map to steer the ship together.

From an astrological perspective, the Saturn Necklace represents the journey of life, its trials, its rewards. Saturnian love, the love of Makino and Donmyoji, is that which endures all until the pot of gold is found at the end of the rainbow. They'll survive NYC; it's written in the stars.

And as one final useless knowledge side note: the zodiac opposite (i.e. opposite personality) of Capricorn is Cancer. Guess who manga-ka Yoko Kamio is? That's right; she's a crab. Is Makino Kamio's shadow, or the kind of person she admires most? Boggles the mind man . . . In fact, other shoujo Fruit Basket and Kare Kano are written by Cancer manga-kas. So, yes, if you're Cancer, a disappointed romantic, and you like comics, get thee a pen and get rich! :D


M+D actually REALLY
makes a lot of "astrological sense" . . . :lol

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Post by aoi_hana » Dec 27th, '05, 18:33

ugh...I cant believe they're making a drama based on that manga...


I read the manga and it made me feel all icky... twin sister... :unsure:
Currently Addicted to: Densha Otoko, Lunch Queen, Boko Dake no Madonna :wub:

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Post by Em_mie » Dec 27th, '05, 19:24

slippyepic wrote:Jun falls in love with his twin sister? You mean, an actress is out there who has have jeri-curls, wear Michael Jackson's clothes from the Thriller tour, and punches like a sissy? Ewwww!!!! :P

Yup. Gotta love incest shoujo. Inspirational. And I bet THAT kissing scene will have lots of, uhm, "backlighting" too. :whistling:
lol jeri-curl for girls? is that even legal?

on a more serious note...ewww....twincest? why are the japanese so fascinated with this brotherly-sisterly, etc incestuos love?

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Post by aoi_hana » Dec 27th, '05, 19:59

Em_mie wrote: on a more serious note...ewww....twincest? why are the japanese so fascinated with this brotherly-sisterly, etc incestuos love?
I wouldn't have a problem if it was a story like Marmalde Boy or SOS. But I don't think the twincest is only a part of Japanese culture, other countries do it too. Taboo and icky..
Currently Addicted to: Densha Otoko, Lunch Queen, Boko Dake no Madonna :wub:

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Post by angelamaria » Dec 28th, '05, 05:43

slippyepic wrote:I kinda have to block out the rape thingie because, in real life, I would never, EVER forgive a guy for doing that to me. But, at least for me, the whole Sakurako storyline really changed my feelings toward Donmyoji. I'm just glad the J-drama watered the rape storyline down because there would have been no way to redeem Donmyoji in such a short season. Actually I have much stronger feelings about the Shigeru/hot spring storyline; it never quite sat well with me.
Me too. It's not something you'd ever accept IRL; just plain hitting a girl IMO is something I don't think I can forgive, much more that. But I suppose it's looser when it comes to things on-screen -- you have to heighten things a bit, you know? Exaggerate a little.
slippyepic wrote:For me, it was kinda cruel how Kamio wrote that first date between Rui and Makino. I mean, it was Blind Date uncomfortable. After that, there was just no way I could see them together.
Too true. Frankly at first I couldn't decide, but Domyoji soon kind of really made me go all "awww". :)
slippyepic wrote:
I think the manga is really not just your ordinary plain love story but more of both Tsukasa and Tsukushi's maturing.
The Saturn necklace says it all. In fact, if you follow astrology, M+D actually makes a lot of, erm, "astrological sense" . . .
In Astrology, Saturn is the planet that sort of defines the commitment, test and roadblocks in your life. It's often associated with career and family planning because it molds the role of fidelity and responsibility to life.

Two signs are ruled by Saturn: Capricorn and Aquarius (co-ruled with Uranus.) In the manga, Makino is characterized as a Capricorn, and Domnyoji as the Aquarius. Another way of saying this is that Makino and Donmyoji represent the two sides of how we take responsibility for our future, what really matters, what we do to find our way. And "hana yori dango" is a cautionary saying about how what really seems important is often not the same thing as what really is.

The Capricorn personality is one who views life as a social climb; they live and learn, going from often humble beginnings and then through tenacity, pragmatism, planning and the support of others, get to the top. They are literally the weed that survives anything, but they also have an acute sense of social status. Thus, a Capricorn who is around people of high status will necessarily feel inferior or unaccomplished, even as they are fighting their way for acceptance. Insecurity and anxiety drives them along with their aggressive determination. In matters of love, it is hard for them to give in to their feelings, because they're trying their best to be pragmatic and realistic about everything. For them, it can be extremely hard to get past differences in class and status when they are with somebody. But, status consciousness is what drives them and they can overcome anything. This is kinda Makino in a nutshell.

The Aquarius personality is one whose life is lived entirely by his rules. Saturn makes them serious about their life goals. But Uranus makes them a little crazy too. They resist changes except of their own making, and when they see challenges, they rebel willfully. Aquarians are often the most individual and often weirdest of the bunch. But they are fair and will see the other side of the picture. This is because an Aquarian is an idealist; his life is a set of ideals in action, and in a sense that singular attention to principles and intellect can also make him cruel or misoanthropic. Nevertheless, they believe in only their values and need absolutely nobody or nothing to validate them. They test people; they judge people; most of the time, they understand but are not particularly attached to friendship, social convention, or relationship. But when they fall in love, it is as if their entire mind is made for that one thing. Their complete faith in their beliefs is also reflected in their complete faith in another person; when they love, they can love completely, social rules be damned. Just don't try to change their strange mind. And this is Donmyoji.

Makino is strong and determined; her practical soul reflects the sweat and tears that go into making life happy. But Donmyoji is fearless and bold; he is the integrity and fidelity that aspires for the best kind of life. In Makino, Donmyoji finds a kindred force to ride the ship forward. In Donmyoji, Makino finds the starry map to steer the ship together.

From an astrological perspective, the Saturn Necklace represents the journey of life, its trials, its rewards. Saturnian love, the love of Makino and Donmyoji, is that which endures all until the pot of gold is found at the end of the rainbow. They'll survive NYC; it's written in the stars.

And as one final useless knowledge side note: the zodiac opposite (i.e. opposite personality) of Capricorn is Cancer. Guess who manga-ka Yoko Kamio is? That's right; she's a crab. Is Makino Kamio's shadow, or the kind of person she admires most? Boggles the mind man . . . In fact, other shoujo Fruit Basket and Kare Kano are written by Cancer manga-kas. So, yes, if you're Cancer, a disappointed romantic, and you like comics, get thee a pen and get rich! :D
This is absolutely fantastic, slippyepic. I'm rather interested a bit in astrology, but I didn't know that about Capricorn and Aquarius (two signs that are rather alien to my natal chart, so I've never really read about them at all). That's very very interesting, and quite insightful, too!

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 28th, '05, 06:41

I'm rather interested a bit in astrology, but I didn't know that about Capricorn and Aquarius (two signs that are rather alien to my natal chart, so I've never really read about them at all).
I'm not sure if it was intentional, but Kamio's grasp of astrology was pretty good.
1) Capricorn/Aries (Makino + Rui) is very popular for same-gender friendships.

2) Leo/Aries (Shizuka + Rui) is considered a very good romantic match.

3) Sag/Aquarius (Shigeru + Domyoji) is considered a very good romantic match.

4) Aries/Aquarius (Rui + Domyoji) is considered a great romantic match and friendship. Maybe the HYD spinoff is yaoi! :D

5) Capricorn/Aquarius (Makino + Domyoji), because it is sextile aspect, is considered a difficult match with enormous growth potential. Because they are two sides of the same coin, they can agree without realizing they see it differently. But, it also means that they can complete the picture. Since Saturn is that which endures and triumphs, it means that nothing can tear them apart. Nothing.
Just another cinderella story.. with a crying in love girl...
and a cool, cold, handsome guy..."
Oh, no question, HYD is a much better story for having paired up Makino with Donmyoji. (Hmm, should that be a spoiler? I mean, it's kinda obvious a few epis in who the show wants to pair up . . .) Makino and Donmyoji are the Liz and Darcy (well, except they're both really crappy at saying what they mean) of shoujo, that rare couple that wins our love by their squabbling and dualing, by their being very real. The chemistry between them is so perfectly realized that Kamio could just throw in crazy storyline after storyline, and let the chips fall where they may.

I only wished Kamio made a stronger case for Rui and Makino. It's rare for me to see a shoujo triangle where it really felt up in the air. I guess I really like Rui for some reason. He's often characterized as more sensitive than Donmyoji; but the truth is, the dude's every bit as chauvinistic and arrogant as his best friend. The only difference is that, where Donmyoji acts out with his fists, Rui is completely passive aggressive. He doesn't participate in a relationship at all. I mean, the guy's a really pretty pet rock. I find that kinda cool! :D
This morning, I was visiting my mum's accupuncture specialist, who had me kinda close my eyes and relax as he worked on me. When I closed my eyes, all I could see was Makino and Donmyoji at the airport, against that orange sunset, their hands holding each other's face and this quiet wind guiding the light of their look.

See, I personally think the kissing scene was kinda cheesy. And I know if I rewatch it, I'll still think it was overdone. But, when I remember that scene, when I feel about all the ups and downs that went on before it, and the bittersweet resolution after it . . . when I hear the music, and I mean really hear Yamashita Kousuke's "Blue Mind" (M+D's love theme played with just piano) hush the sound and fury that followed M+D . . . when I replay in my head, Makino's declaration of love and then the way Donmyoji just pulls her close with that look of relief . . .

I kept on thinking, that this is the end. It may be the beginning of their beautiful relationship, but I may never know. I will not be able to make that journey with them; I will not get to see their love blossom or fall or whatever. I will never see them grow old together, share their first experience together, etc. This is where the story ends; this is where we part.

And what is this? A pair of amber silouettes, Saturn starships flying blind on tears and love, who even in their most perfect moment, know that the very atmosphere is whispering for them to already part. The sun burns so bright only when it's fading into the uncertain night. Their kiss is hello and goodbye.

I then realized that the memory of the "Saturn kiss" means the same to me as it does for them. It may seem over the top, but it is because the situation itself must burn in their memories, it must sustain them for a uncertain, harder future; it must be so unreal, so literally golden, like a polaroid stolen perfect and eternal from their turbulent lives.

If there's a light tragedy, I guess it's that the time apart, through the college life, will change who they are, as it did for all of us. Their love will change or die. And, see, I feel the same way too because I know MY M+D will never be the same either. M+D will change or die. They will grow or part. Either way, I have to let them go.

And, so, resting in the doctor's office, I know what I take away now. Blue Mind in my head, the silouettes resting upon each other, how their flowing hair seems to clasping each other's neck against the last blessing from the sun, how they knew their "I love you's" was also a goodbye to their innocence . . . And I feel something that I rarely do for TV shows, even romanti comedies. Gratitude.

I feel gratitude for a finale that could bridge the gap between me and the couple, so that at the very end of the road, I thought the same things that they did. Their relief was my relief. Their regret and uncertainty were mine. Their gratitude for having been made better people was mine too. Thank you for letting me spend time with this delightful couple. Thank you for letting me bask in a bittersweet catharsis that burned brightly upon the show's twilight.

Thank you, HYD, for choosing to honour the realities and responsibilities of life, and then stealing a sunkissed moment for our Saturn soulmates, to redeeming all life with love. Real memories taste this bittersweet.
I wouldn't have a problem if it was a story like Marmalde Boy or SOS. But I don't think the twincest is only a part of Japanese culture, other countries do it too. Taboo and icky..
Jun falls in love with June. Prince falls in love with his/her lovely lady lumps. Awe-some! :D

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Post by angelamaria » Dec 28th, '05, 07:07

slippyepic wrote:
I'm rather interested a bit in astrology, but I didn't know that about Capricorn and Aquarius (two signs that are rather alien to my natal chart, so I've never really read about them at all).
I'm not sure if it was intentional, but Kamio's grasp of astrology was pretty good.
1) Capricorn/Aries (Makino + Rui) is very popular for same-gender friendships.

2) Leo/Aries (Shizuka + Rui) is considered a very good romantic match.

3) Sag/Aquarius (Shigeru + Domyoji) is considered a very good romantic match.

4) Aries/Aquarius (Rui + Domyoji) is considered a great romantic match and friendship. Maybe the HYD spinoff is yaoi! :D

5) Capricorn/Aquarius (Makino + Domyoji), because it is sextile aspect, is considered a difficult match with enormous growth potential. Because they are two sides of the same coin, they can agree without realizing they see it differently. But, it also means that they can complete the picture. Since Saturn is that which endures and triumphs, it means that nothing can tear them apart. Nothing.
O.O Pretty interesting! Yes, it does seem like her grasp is pretty good. The fourth is... VERY INTERESTING. XD
slippyepic wrote: Makino and Donmyoji are the Liz and Darcy (well, except they're both really crappy at saying what they mean) of shoujo, that rare couple that wins our love by their squabbling and dualing, by their being very real.
I never really fully realized that before. O.O;; I love Liz and Darcy (they're my non-A/M OTP), so... wow, makes complete sense. Hehe!

Your post about the ending was absolutely sweet. :)

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Post by cmge » Dec 28th, '05, 09:16

i just finished watching HYD and i must say i really liked it.... altho im also with everyone who is wishing for a second season.... i really hope it happens... coz the ending was incomplete and very open ended... :-(

now i think its time to read the manga and perhaps check out Meteor Garden.... that will be my gateway to Chinese Drama... a line i have yet to cross as well as Korean Drama... :roll

the guys from F4 are just soo damn coool... errr is that normal for a guy to say???... :scratch:

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 28th, '05, 14:52

slippyepic wrote: I'm not sure if it was intentional, but Kamio's grasp of astrology was pretty good.
1) Capricorn/Aries (Makino + Rui) is very popular for same-gender friendships.

2) Leo/Aries (Shizuka + Rui) is considered a very good romantic match.

3) Sag/Aquarius (Shigeru + Domyoji) is considered a very good romantic match.

4) Aries/Aquarius (Rui + Domyoji) is considered a great romantic match and friendship. Maybe the HYD spinoff is yaoi! :D

5) Capricorn/Aquarius (Makino + Domyoji), because it is sextile aspect, is considered a difficult match with enormous growth potential. Because they are two sides of the same coin, they can agree without realizing they see it differently. But, it also means that they can complete the picture. Since Saturn is that which endures and triumphs, it means that nothing can tear them apart. Nothing.
This is really interest...
I was searching... and Next year will be a Year in astrology Rule By Saturn... ^_^
The year of that responsibilities... O_O
Amazing, huh?
Just another cinderella story.. with a crying in love girl...
and a cool, cold, handsome guy..."
Oh, no question, HYD is a much better story for having paired up Makino with Donmyoji.
... The chemistry between them is so perfectly realized that Kamio could just throw in crazy storyline after storyline, and let the chips fall where they may.
Yep! Yep!
I only wished Kamio made a stronger case for Rui and Makino. It's rare for me to see a shoujo triangle where it really felt up in the air. I guess I really like Rui for some reason. He's often characterized as more sensitive than Donmyoji; but the truth is, the dude's every bit as chauvinistic and arrogant as his best friend. The only difference is that, where Donmyoji acts out with his fists, Rui is completely passive aggressive. He doesn't participate in a relationship at all. I mean, the guy's a really pretty pet rock. I find that kinda cool! :D
In the end what i really thought about RuiXMakino
The end of J-Drama show exactly
When she ask to Rui, if he can be with her.... because she stay by his side when he was sad...
Now that she was sad, if he can be by her side...
In Manga i have this frequently feeling...
I like this kind of friendship.

This morning, I was visiting my mum's accupuncture specialist, who had me kinda close my eyes and relax as he worked on me. When I closed my eyes, all I could see was Makino and Donmyoji at the airport, against that orange sunset, their hands holding each other's face and this quiet wind guiding the light of their look.

See, I personally think the kissing scene was kinda cheesy. And I know if I rewatch it, I'll still think it was overdone. But, when I remember that scene, when I feel about all the ups and downs that went on before it, and the bittersweet resolution after it . . . when I hear the music, and I mean really hear Yamashita Kousuke's "Blue Mind" (M+D's love theme played with just piano) hush the sound and fury that followed M+D . . . when I replay in my head, Makino's declaration of love and then the way Donmyoji just pulls her close with that look of relief . . .
You are making me Cry....
:cry:
*I'm just a cry baby...XD
"Blue Mind"...I just love that song too...
And if i could i would like to thanks Yamashita Kousuke... beautiful songs...
I kept on thinking, that this is the end. It may be the beginning of their beautiful relationship, but I may never know. I will not be able to make that journey with them; I will not get to see their love blossom or fall or whatever. I will never see them grow old together, share their first experience together, etc. This is where the story ends; this is where we part.
Yes.. really i wish that i could see...
make that journey with them...
:cry:
And what is this? A pair of amber silouettes, Saturn starships flying blind on tears and love, who even in their most perfect moment, know that the very atmosphere is whispering for them to already part. The sun burns so bright only when it's fading into the uncertain night. Their kiss is hello and goodbye.

I then realized that the memory of the "Saturn kiss" means the same to me as it does for them. It may seem over the top, but it is because the situation itself must burn in their memories, it must sustain them for a uncertain, harder future; it must be so unreal, so literally golden, like a polaroid stolen perfect and eternal from their turbulent lives.

If there's a light tragedy, I guess it's that the time apart, through the college life, will change who they are, as it did for all of us. Their love will change or die. And, see, I feel the same way too because I know MY M+D will never be the same either. M+D will change or die. They will grow or part. Either way, I have to let them go.
That is so sad!!!!
I don't want to let them go!!!!!! >_<
*acting just like a kid.
And, so, resting in the doctor's office, I know what I take away now. Blue Mind in my head, the silouettes resting upon each other, how their flowing hair seems to clasping each other's neck against the last blessing from the sun, how they knew their "I love you's" was also a goodbye to their innocence . . . And I feel something that I rarely do for TV shows, even romanti comedies. Gratitude.

I feel gratitude for a finale that could bridge the gap between me and the couple, so that at the very end of the road, I thought the same things that they did. Their relief was my relief. Their regret and uncertainty were mine. Their gratitude for having been made better people was mine too. Thank you for letting me spend time with this delightful couple. Thank you for letting me bask in a bittersweet catharsis that burned brightly upon the show's twilight.

Thank you, HYD, for choosing to honour the realities and responsibilities of life, and then stealing a sunkissed moment for our Saturn soulmates, to redeeming all life with love. Real memories taste this bittersweet.
:cheers:
Really beautiful!!!
Did you write something? A book... poetry... Fanfics?
Can i read?
cmge wrote:the guys from F4 are just soo damn coool... errr is that normal for a guy to say???... :scratch:
I think that is cool a guy say this... :lol

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Post by slippyepic » Dec 28th, '05, 21:47

the guys from F4 are just soo damn coool... errr is that normal for a guy to say???...
Yup. It is good to be king. :D

Adapting HYD is always kind of problematic, I think, because the material dates back to the early 90s, when the Japanese economy was still doing well, and that era's fashion and zeitgeist was still forming out of the late 80s. I mean, I half expect the F4 to have a closet full of acid-washed jeans! Donmyoji's psuedo-pompadour is SO 1988!! :D

The show did a pretty good job translating 90210 privilege to "Da OC" choices. Unfortunately, the fashion seemed to be stuck between here and there, and certainly Jun's jeri-curls and tragic taste for fuscia(!) made him look like such a big time dork. So, though the F4's power still seems out of place in this era, certainly the marginal financial circumstances of Makino's family, which gets played up again and again throughout the show, is spot on.

About Rui x Makino,
When she ask to Rui, if he can be with her.... because she stay by his side when he was sad...
Now that she was sad, if he can be by her side...
In Manga i have this frequently feeling...
I like this kind of friendship.
At first, I was kinda weirded out about how nice Rui was initially to Makino in the J-drama. But, toward the end of the show, it was finally clear to me that they were going with Kamio's characterization of Rui once the triangle had been pretty much settled.

And that this was the right move; first off, Rui did change a lot after Kamio decided who would be Makino's guy, in order to fit the rest of the story. The show understood Rui and Makino as Kamio understood them through the 2nd half of the manga's run. The essence of Rui and Makino -- Rui would become Makino and Domnyoji's keeper, and also paradoxically the moral conscience of this exclusive world. If Rui maybe was a little in love with Makino, it's perhaps because as long as she was around him, he liked who he was. He liked that he could be a honorable friend with Makino. In the manga, his life ends up being lonely, quiet, and empty, but he could still do right by believing in Makino and Domyoji. In the J-drama, his good works is rewarded by Shizuka's return.

Some beautiful reactions by Mao-chan when Rui delivers the news. And I loved the parallel made between her beseeching for Shizuka and his for M+D. It, again, showed to me that the writers pretty much had the ending written.
More thoughts on the finale --
For the hardcore HYD fan, we can appreciate that about half of the episodes also works as a commentary on Kamio's work. They didn't have to write in the NYC twist, but in doing so, they forced us to reappraise everybody's relationship. TOJ was between Makino and the world from which she struggled to gain acceptance. NYC was the J-drama finally saying what the love between Makino and Domyoji really means, and also what the friendship between Makino and Rui really means.

We have to keep in mind how unusual the writing for the finale was. The twist wasn't "necessary", because pretty much we knew that when our female heroine wins over the villains, she also is supposed to realize that she loved the "white prince" who helped the "poor girl" be accepted by "rich society." That is how the story is usually written; win or loss, we had expected the mum to accept her.

Putting both arcs into the same finale changes the meaning completely. From my perspective, the first half of the HYD manga was about Makino reconciling Domyoji with the class differences and "karmic payback" that came with him. Domyoji would go to hell for her, but due to who he was, he would also bring the hell to her. Domyoji finally realizes this and it's *then* she mustered enough courage to be with him. THEN the 2nd half of HYD is more about M+D as a couple, the testing and exploring of their nature of love. Even though more rivalries and amnesia come into the story, M+D know that, really, Makino and Domyoji will always be their worst enemies. They know they will love on their own terms as long as they can.

Throwing the twist forces you to re-evaluate the whole show. Makino's victory at TOJ is a practical reality; she can go back to the school and be accepted. But it is also an empty victory, one that flips Makino's aspirations for survival and Domnyoji's bitterness toward his situation. It makes you realize that, though the J-drama was covering the first half of the manga, it went with the 2nd half of the manga's interpretations of the story, interweaving the circumstances that would bring them together with a meditation of what they (and Rui+Makino) really mean together.

When the twist comes, what it does is completely liberate M+D from the story that preceded it. At this point, the show is saying "Okay, this is not a poor girl/rich guy love story anymore. It was, yet never was." Early on in the show, we could see how unhappy Domnyoji was with his life, and how he seemed to inflict pain on others as if to relieve himself of his own loneliness, boredom, and need for control. We literally saw Domnyoji's need for a Makino, if not our Makino. At the time, it seemed kinda puzzling because this show is really about M+D's budding romance and the outrageous obstacles that come with it. Why were we getting a character study on "Being Tsukasa"?

Well, see, this provides the great irony of the show, really the utter brilliance of this adaptation. If TOJ is about Makino, NYC is about Donmyoji. And that does follow how the manga flows in its entirety. And then we realize the whole show has been two story arcs -- "poor girl falls in love with rich guy", and "lonely guy finally proves love to an is saved by his princess." The former sets up the comedy and outrageous quotient; the latter sets up the romance. Where the show falters, especially in the 2nd half, is make a case for Makino's ardor for Donmyoji; as long as we look for her to validate their relationship, we don't really see it. But, to be fair, Makino in the manga wasn't a conventional romantic heroine who easily expressed her feelings toward anybody. But, all the while, when the focus remains on Domnyoji, it's really that we're rooting for him to get the girl; he brings us our circumstances.

In this story, the guy and his school and his family makes the girl's life a living hell, then he realizes he was a fool all along, and that his love for her wouldn't mean a thing if he didn't atone for the sins that he did to her.

In this story, the girl chases the guy down, realizes she was a fool for too long, and that all that she has won would mean so little without his love.

Two different arcs, same story, same finale.

If they want to do a 2nd season, the "girl in mad world" arc disappears, and now we have is the love and war between M+D. Which we may never see. Or to put it another way -- how much did the sunset kiss have to do with the story before it? Probably not a lot, and even a little too much. But, how much did it mean, against what M+D mean to us? It perfectly signifies what Domyoji had been longing all along, and the bittersweet "smell the flowers while you can" refrain Makino had come to understand.
Did you write something? A book... poetry... Fanfics?
Writing poetry is kind of a hobby for me. I don't think I have any HYD poems anymore. It turns out that I did contribute a HYD haiku to a site, but the server crashed and ate up my leeeetle poem. Maybe I should write one?

Okey-dokey. Time to restart my Mars viewing. I've covered about 12 episodes, and that one dude is REALLY creeping me out. :D

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Post by makino_sanbr » Dec 31st, '05, 22:33

Hi everybody!!!!
I wish to everyone happy New Years!!
I did a little thing to put on my site... inspired on ours conversations about
Makino x Domyouji as saturn Beings
So hope you people like...
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Post by whisperss_57 » Jan 1st, '06, 01:19

thats so amazing makino ^^. happy new years to u adn everyone elsee!!

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Post by moonlit » Jan 1st, '06, 16:48

I can't believe I'm seeing so many people gushing over this series. I've watched every episode and I'm sorry I really couldn't find myself liking the series. For one thing, Inoue Mao just simply had no charisma and her acting strikes me as really amateur. When I first saw the previews back in early October, I already had a feeling that her portrayal had too much of Tsukushi's tough side, but really none of her softer, funny, kinder, gentler side. In the show, she's just a tough girl who won't take crap from anyone for the most part. All she does is do the tough girl act. OK, so she's tough. There are tons of girls out there who won't take crap from anyone and can kick butt. But there is only one Makino Tsukushi. I don't think it's really Mao's fault entirely. If the show was allowed to go on longer, and we were able to see her character develop then maybe it wouldn't be so one-dimensional.

And I know the whole show is restricted by time constraints, but even Jun's performance I wasn't too impressed with. That one scene I remember, where Doumyoji saw Makino and Rui being all intimate in the stairwell, and he's just standing at the doorway all "cool" and "hurt." I'm sorry but at that scene, I just burst out laughing because it was such a stupid scene. I can totally imagine manga-Doumyoji doing that pose, but given how the TV doumyoji had been portrayed up to that point... it just looked and felt completely wrong.

And Mao + Jun really had no chemistry together either. OK maybe some, but that's just the natural chemistry that occurs between a nice looking boy and a nice looking girl. They were just going through the motions, I felt. The bickering that goes on between Doumyoji and Makino didn't work at all. I think when the reader sees the two of them going at each other's throat, they are always cognizant of the fact that they love each other despite everything! So when we are watching them, it feels like we know something they don't, making it more special... but that requires us knowing more about their characters in the first place!!

I guess what I'm really getting at is that there is so much potential for this story, and they (as in the producers) just crapped it up by rushing through it. And I really doubt this whole first series can be redeemed by the sequel, if there will be a sequel. All the necessary preliminary character developments that were supposed to happen in the early parts of the story didn't happen so I can't imagine how someone watching it w/o any exposure to the manga could be moved to care for these characters.

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Post by Kathleen » Jan 2nd, '06, 00:54

I don't have the time to read all posts (completely), nor can I reply to them properly. Forgive me please. :roll

Insestuous love: I'm actually a huge fan of Katharina von Bredow's novel that deals with brother and sister falling in love with each other (I looked up for the English title but apparently there isn't an English translation). Them having sex is a great issue of the story, yet not the major part and God knows not what fascinates me about it. It's more like the thing about two people truely caring for each other even though they know the world will never approve of their love. It's actually rather sad than sexy or anything.
That aside I think the nice side to it is that brother and sister usually know each other very well, so there's also the thing about the "unconditional love", like loving the other with all their flaws. I'd say it was icky if it was a parent / child relationship. Brother and sister relationships are rather tragic in my opinion.

Raping: I don't think you can call what he did raping therefore I don't see the big deal. As for him slapping her: She has kicked him in the face before and punched him countless times with her fist. Not saying I approve of what he did, I personally would prefer someone less aggressive for myself, too. But as for Tsukushi, she's not as thin-skinned as to complain about him slapping her, really. It's not like he totally got out of control and punched and kicked her, either.

Lastly, according to what moonlit wrote, I mostly agree. I wasn't too thrilled about the drama. I didn't feel the spark between the main characters as I did when I read the manga. It's true that the story just doesn't have quite its effect when everything's so rushed. I think I could somewhat enjoy it but it's definitely not like I'm totally hooked to it. Frankly spoken, there were parts when I really forced myself to continue watching, only because I knew from the manga how the story will turn out. If it wasn't for the manga I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. I agree I would have had less prejudices from the beginning but eventually it was my high expectations that even kept me continuing to watch the show.
Gotta disagree about the acting though. There were only a few parts where I was kind of disappointed with Mao's acting (Jun's even less). I think everyone did the best of what the screenwriter and the producers decided them to be. It's mostly the story I'm having my problem with. Well, maybe some people's looks, too but that's another story... :whistling:

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Post by makino_sanbr » Jan 2nd, '06, 04:42

Well... I disagree.
( Late i have disagreed a lot here in D-addicts.. i think that is something wrong with me)
.
I don't agree about the Drama not be interess or about the acting.
I don't have to say that I'm a HYD hardcore fan.
So obvious you can not take so serious my point of view..
But I have to say something.
Because you people don't know How many people this Drama hoocked up.
And I'm not saying this about D-addicts communit.. or in Japan.
I will talk about my experiencie with my little webpage dedicaded to HYD and to Brazilian people that like HYD.
Here in Brazil, literaly on the other side of the world, with a totally different culture...
we have a lot of people that like manga. But Hana Yori Dango isn't very known.. ( I will not talk about that here we don't have almost any shoujo magazines... :glare: )
Late a lot of people wrote to me... They said how they started to watched this Drama and how this make they wanted to read more...
really.
You don't have any ideia.. People that i never thought that would like HYD.
So I dont think that this Drama is so BAD... How can you say that is not interesting?
That the characters do not convince... that people can't feel connect?
If i was good at math :glare: I problablty would do a statistics about this..
How many people get to know and like HYD because this Drama.

Now. We have at least two groups to talk about.
Are you talking about be good for people that didn't knew HYD...
Or be good to people that read HYD?

About people that didn't know nothing about HYD, i already give my experiencie..
And if you read all this thread you can see that often i asked people that didn't know if the acts was making sense... Nobody really complain about.

About people that know HYD...

Yes, the HYD manga has a lot more. But could really be a Drama that put all HYD fellings and story? How many movies about books we already saw and that are totally ****.
And don't have nothing to do as the original?

But again... Now everybody can put criticize
and again if you go some pages ago in this thread
Everybody was hoocked up..
Crying about have to wait until Friday to see the next ep.
So was so uninteresting?
I don't think so. The away that the Drama make people dicuss about how they would tell the story..
And the TOJ arc could be so a failud... But they make in a good way.
Many many times i have hard time to watch this J-Drama.
But was because i was crying "Its different... in manga is different..."
But after i notice that i could just Enjoy.
I started to like much more.
Just enjoy.
I would be very angry if they changed HYD essecencial.. Like put Makino and Rui together... Or make Domyouji fall in love for another woman and forget totally about makino in the hole 27 ep.( I will not talk that this was in MG2 :glare: ) ....

( i think that i already wrote this... :lol )

I will not talk about the acting too... But i have to say that I couldn't disagreed more...
But i custom to not jugde so much, because how i already said here in this thread..
Brasilian acting, mexican acting... are trully different from Asian acting...
And i tend to try put my culture on the side a little, so i can't jugde bad just because is different.
But really... if people don't like HYD J-Drama acting... Don't come even closer to Meteor Garden. ( even if i love so so so much MG... the acting.. is really hard to tell .. is not so good..)

And like i said in another thread...
If all people had the same taste for things the world would be pretty boring

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Post by Kathleen » Jan 2nd, '06, 15:01

Sarah, we all know you're a die-hard Hanadan fan. But it's a matter of fact there are people who simply don't care much for the drama. If you're talking about the maths, just throw a look at the results of this thread's poll. It says that there were people who even adviced to "stay away". So maybe it was just 8 people out of 454. Keep in mind though there are also 13 people who wouldn't recommend it either and people out of the 202 who voted for "life altering" as I did and changed their mind after realizing it didn't turn out as well as expected. I'm far from counting myself to the last two groups of spectators but I just don't like the drama as much as at the beginning (and especially not as much as the manga which I adore) and this is why I personally cannot see how people without knowing the manga can actually enjoy it. Not saying there aren't such people. I just don't understand them. And I also maintain that the drama would be by far less popular if it wasn't for the manga (fans).
So this isn't something we can talk out since you or anyone won't be able to convince moonlit or me to change our taste by telling us how many people like the show. Just live with it please.

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Post by makino_sanbr » Jan 2nd, '06, 17:15

Kathleen wrote:Sarah, we all know you're a die-hard Hanadan fan. But it's a matter of fact there are people who simply don't care much for the drama. If you're talking about the maths, just throw a look at the results of this thread's poll. It says that there were people who even adviced to "stay away". So maybe it was just 8 people out of 454. Keep in mind though there are also 13 people who wouldn't recommend it either and people out of the 202 who voted for "life altering" as I did and changed their mind after realizing it didn't turn out as well as expected. I'm far from counting myself to the last two groups of spectators but I just don't like the drama as much as at the beginning (and especially not as much as the manga which I adore) and this is why I personally cannot see how people without knowing the manga can actually enjoy it. Not saying there aren't such people. I just don't understand them. And I also maintain that the drama would be by far less popular if it wasn't for the manga (fans).
So this isn't something we can talk out since you or anyone won't be able to convince moonlit or me to change our taste by telling us how many people like the show. Just live with it please.

Well sorry, but i wasn't trying to convince anyone.
You say your opinion and i say my opinion.
I was talk about my experience with my webpage.. and how many people talked to me about get interesent in read HYD after the drama.
Because there is a lot of that.
Even if we can't understand.

But like i said, i don't expect to chance people mind...
Because everyone have they tastes...
I was only talking about what is my opinion.

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Post by slippyepic » Jan 3rd, '06, 02:39

Generally, the J-drama drew positive reviews from viewers who hadn't read the manga or watched Meteor Garden, because

A) it ran a unusually high budget and expensive visual style for an idol drama

B) the storyline was much faster paced and much more loaded than the usual Asian drama. If you didn't like anything in particular, you could expect something new in 10 minutes.

C) fangirls lapping up Jun and Shun.

D) the principal characters were well acted. At times, it felt like they were deliberately playing to the audience, but I liked that aspect. Inoue Mao delivered a really strong comic performance, at times eerily "doing the manga" in her facial expressions and physical tics. Jun Matsumoto did a wonderful job avoiding "cool" bad-boy cliches with his Donmyoji performance, balancing out the menacing with the childlike, but without trying to seek sympathy from either the audience or the female lead.

For me, the HYD J-drama was one of the most successful manga-to-drama adaptations I've seen. But, I say that with the caveat that the screenwriters, more or less, went with an interpretation of the story that was pretty close to what *I* liked about Kamio's manga. The issues of class, the mixup between passion and empathy, being practical vs. following your heart. Or, let's put it another way -- I was a big fan of Donmyoji's mom in the manga, because from my point of view, Donmyoji just didn't "get it" in regards to the weight of his familial obligations. This adaptation had light gothic flavor to it, and I liked that very much. In some respects, I thought the drama did a better job articulating this viewpoint better than the manga could have, given that the latter was a serialization and a girl's romance, whereas the former had finite space and at times watched like a "wink-wink" commentary on the shoujo.

Because the narrative was shaped around that particular interpretation, I was rather okay with the show perhaps not fully developing Makino's feelings for Donmyoji. And that is where I thought the show weakest, giving us face time beween Makino and Donmyoji. The details are there, and so Makino's coming around to Donmyoji still works, but the writing and editing wasn't as tight with the 2nd half of the show. Conversely, the 1st half of the show did such a wonderful job setting things up, and in that regard, my expectations may have been arbitrarily high going into episode 5. The show still insisted on developing side stories and giving us loads of "other stuff", where in a more conventional Asian drama, we should have gotten M+D 75% of the time. Perhaps if the show was written around the triangle, that would have been so.

But, for me, I was happy with that compromise, and the finale completely worked for me. It wasn't perfect, but the first half WAY exceeded my expectations for a live-action adaptation. Anyhow, I'm going to get around to watching Meteor Garden. I think that show will suffer for me, not due to having seen this drama, but in comparison to the Mars TV show. Maybe I'll like MG more.

Finally, about incest love: there's an excellent American movie, "Spanking the Monkey", which involves a situation between a sexually frustrated guy and his mom. Very black comedy that does a good job exploring the adolescent male psyche in relation to familial bonds. As for incest shoujo, there's a good one called "Koi Kaze"; this one was good in the sense that, while giving us a compassionate overview of their love, it never really celebrates it There's enough irony to show how tragically misguided their feelings are, and it hints that this will likely end up very badly. Love as failure, so to speak.

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Post by makino_sanbr » Jan 3rd, '06, 23:50

Hi!
Well i was reading my e-mail and Gail from HYDML post a e-mail with good links...
Was a interview in chinese that one girl translated.
I had a lot fun reading... :lol
Has some pics too.
( interview with F3- Oguri shun, Shota and Abe)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kaori__/364.html

And the other
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kaori_ ... 1324#t1324
about little secrets from HYD XD

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Post by Schala » Jan 4th, '06, 03:56

Oooo I just finally started watching this. (I'm behind the times. :P)

I love it! It gets a little melodramatic at times, but it's still really good! And it has plenty of my favorite actors! Oguri Shun! Matsumoto Jun! Matsushima Nanako! <33333 *squee* :wub: :heart:

I knew Makino looked familiar, and by the 2nd episode I realized she was from Hotaru no Haka. ^^ I like her too.

I can't wait to watch more! ^o^

EDIT: Oh, and I haven't read the manga, so I don't know how close it is to the manga, but I still like it so far. (Or maybe I just like to watch my favorite actors? :lol) Well, if I enjoy it enough, maybe I will pick up the manga? :P
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Post by xsnowangelx » Jan 5th, '06, 22:57

hi gurlies! i was wondering if any1 no where i can get the themesong in the series by a girl... its plays everytime something sweet is happening .. like when Rui saved Makino in da lab.. cuz i tried dl-in thru torrent here.. theres partically no seeders =*[ thanks!

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Post by yt_toshi » Jan 5th, '06, 23:01

xsnowangelx wrote:hi gurlies! i was wondering if any1 no where i can get the themesong in the series by a girl... its plays everytime something sweet is happening .. like when Rui saved Makino in da lab.. cuz i tried dl-in thru torrent here.. theres partically no seeders =*[ thanks!
Torrent was killed here, but you can find it on Jpopsuki and her name is Ai Otsuka.
D-Addicts is like a library: Most of the resources are there, you just have to search around!

My 1000th post: How to be a Good Fansubber :-)

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Post by whisperss_57 » Jan 5th, '06, 23:09

look for it on jpopsuki..



its called planetarium by ai otsuka <sp?? >
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Post by kyosak » Jan 5th, '06, 23:42

I came into this drama with low expectations (this was when I'd just finished the emtional drama, Ichi Rittoru no Namida), only to be punched in the face by a great series. :D Having just finished the last episode a few minutes ago, I am in the process of downloading all those little extras~!

BTW, is the manga series worth checking out even AFTER I've watched the drama version? I've been kind of dissapointed in the past with reading the manga or book version of movies/dramas or vice versa, so I'm kind of hesitant...
Currently watching: Nothing
Current favorite: LIFE
All-time favorite: Sekachuu

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Post by slippyepic » Jan 6th, '06, 09:43

BTW, is the manga series worth checking out even AFTER I've watched the drama version? I've been kind of dissapointed in the past with reading the manga or book version of movies/dramas or vice versa, so I'm kind of hesitant...
Let's put it this way -- take all of the M+D jokes in the HYD J-drama, multiply them by a 1000, and you have something that approaches the "Boys over Flowers" manga. Donmyoji is 10,000 times scarier and 100,000 times dumber in the manga; therefore, he's 1,000,000 times more lovable! :D

But seriously . . . the HYD manga is one of the true shoujo classics; it's been adapted again and again, but no adaptation can quite convey how unique Makino and Donmyoji are. Plot twists and triangles galore! Donmyoji puns! Makino's fists of legend! The basketball game! The amnesia plot! Uhm, yeah, let's forget the amnesia plot. Pun! :D

Unlike the live-action show, the R vs. D triangle is a rather small part of the story, and even then the triangle is coming from the standpoint of M+D. So, even though the show does cover the first half of the manga, the interpretation and feel are very different. Finally, the school antics are much more outrageous than what the show depicted; at times, HYD feels like a shoujo version of GTO.

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Post by Kathleen » Jan 6th, '06, 12:38

In a hurry. Again!
Doumyouji (where did you get the n in his name from anyway?? :scratch: ) is a LOT dumber in the drama I'd say. He proves several times in the manga that he's actually quite clever, just not educated when it comes to his own language. (He plays the piano, too, he knows several languages, he has very sharp instincts, and other than Tsukushi who was never pampered like him, he DOES know how to survive on a deserted island, he knows about the techniques of a ship and if you ask me he always knows better than anyone else in the manga what's most important.) Frankly spoken it gives me the creeps when the drama Doumyouji silliliy laughs or grins in some scenes (for example in the zoo when he doesn't get the name of that animal right). It makes him look too stupid, I'm feeling embarrassed in his place!! The manga Doumyouji at least ADMITS he's making mistakes.
I agree though that he's much scarier in the manga. That might be mostly due to his hight though.

As for the first half of the manga being covered up, dunno if we can put it that way. They mixed up happenings of the whole manga in a new order. Happenings of the first few volumes, though something from volume 15 (?) with Kaede being introduced at the very beginning, then they took over the Junpei arc from volume 13 or so, then very soon happenings from volume 20 (Yuuki / Soujiro), then they go backwards again to the TOJ (around volume 11?) and at the same time they have a mix of volume 18 and volume 10 or 11 with Tsukushi coming to Doumyouji's place, then also Saturn (19) and lastly NY (could be 29 but it's mostly like in the very last volume).
So from a manga fan's point of view it looks like a big mess. I admit they did well at rewriting the story again, it'd just need a few more episodes to make it work with the emotions and character development. Also I don't like Doumyouji is often a little too silly in the drama.
I also disagree as for the love triangle. I think it was a much bigger deal in the manga than in the drama, and I also maintain that even towards the end of the series a lot of readers still had hopes for
Tsukushi and Rui ending up together. It's just that there are so many hints that Rui might be the better catch for her after all. She feels at ease around him, he always comes to comfort her when Doumyouji is not, he "rescued" her in NY, and everyone knows he's so totally in love with her when Doumyouji seemed to be more interested in Umi.
I think in the drama we cannot even call it a love triangle, really, as it only begins when Doumyouji confesses to her or at least clearly shows his feelings to her. In the drama when he demands her to lick his shoes, I'm not sure if this counts as a prove of love already, even if his face looked different for a moment (if everyone who intensely looks at others was in love it'd be a woodstock world! :lol ). The real love triangle begins and ends in one episode if you ask me. And even then it's obvious that they don't care for each other in that certain way.

Btw, I think you should say it the other way around: GTO is a shounen version of Hanadan (although I don't think so at all! I'd rather compare GTO to Gokusen) since Hanadan is at least 5 years older. :P

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Post by coolio_amanda » Jan 6th, '06, 13:01

i can't wait to see the second season

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Post by cuteangelika » Jan 6th, '06, 13:12

Off topic, but I'd like to ask what replaced the timeslot of this drama in Jap? thanks

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