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[Discussion] Hana Yori Dango (Meteor Garden Manga) jdrama

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

How would you rate Hana Yori Dango?

Life-Altering (5)
341
42%
See it (4)
328
40%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
56
7%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
56
7%
Only if you have time (2)
26
3%
STAY AWAY (1)
12
1%
 
Total votes: 819

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beccaa
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Post by beccaa » Nov 12th, '05, 10:28

just watched episode 4... it was so good! can't wait to watch it with the subs again!

i love that part
where domyouji was cheering with the crowd, then he turned around and winked at tsukushi!! that wink was to die for! ahh... jun...

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Kathleen
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Post by Kathleen » Nov 12th, '05, 13:39

beccaa wrote: i love that part
where domyouji was cheering with the crowd, then he turned around and winked at tsukushi!! that wink was to die for! ahh... jun...
My expression was probably just like Tsukushi's when he winked at her. I found it rather icky to tell you the truth.

@ sunmoon: I think Kin-san is a really nice character but I simply didn't like him in the course of the story.
I was really like: Now wait a second. She betrayed Doumyouji who saved her, said he trusted her, confessed his love to her and so on, because she was still oh so on love with his best friend. Then when this didn't work out she was sad and moping because Doumyouji didn't tell her he was going to leave, and then when you'd expect her to be missing Doumyouji or to be still in love with Rui she's all of a sudden about to kiss a guy whom she'd just met. I was seriously disapointed. Of course I knew they wouldn't end up together anyway but I really didn't like her being so easy. I think the anime found a better way for them to make up after the whole love triangle thing.
shiruchan wrote:I love Shigeru too!!! More than Yuki, actually.
Yay!! :thumleft: Yuuki was kind of nice and cute at the beginning (although I often disliked the things she said) but she was pretty much getting on my nerves
when she got so obsessed about Nishikado. Although... I noticed only now that she actually has quite a lot in common with Doumyouji. Both fell madly in love with someone who turned them down over and over again. :whistling:
I really like Shigeru's sweet and funny character. She's always so playful and childish. Not to mention it's awesome what she did for Tsukushi and Doumyouji although she loves him until the end. A great friend she is.
About the second scene I want them to show: it´s so cliche, but I love this one!!! I guess I´ve cried more than on the third one!
Me too!! XD Good to know I'm not the only one that was all teared up during that scene. I remember I was like: "Don't you dare get into the bus. If you do I'm gonna hate you!" And she did. -_- So I decided: "Okay girl, too bad but I've gotta hate you now." But when she suddenly stood in front of Doumyouji I had to change my mind again and was like: "Hey, sorry about earlier, I love you! T_T" I'm crazy... :lol
The third scene you mentioned didn't affect me all that much since I had watched MG before which is why it wasn't much of a surprise to me. (Well I was still touched and sad but not as much as if I had seen it without knowing what was going to happen.)
I HATE the amnesia part. And call me childish but I also hate Umi. She's so... AAARGH! :cussing: I cannot really say I disliked Doumyouji for being so cold as he was just being himself. And honestly it wasn't all that hard to predict he wouldn't like a girl who's acting like some of his groopies. I was mostly annoyed with Tsukushi for being so reserved. No wonder Umi came as far as she did. Moreover I felt kind of offended with how simply and quickly he got rid of his amnesia and that Tsukushi was pouting all of a sudden and asked him questions and even kicked him instead of being happy. What on earth...?! That was probably the point when Kamio-sensei should've stopped. She seemed really tired of her own story by then.
As for the marriage: Why didn't it make sense to you? Frankly spoken I was surprised he didn't ask her sooner. Lol. Maybe it's because it's not all that uncommon in Germany to get engaged early (although hardly anyone marries at such young age).
I just hope the 1th, 2nd and 3rd ranks won´t go to Rui!
You haven't seen the Hanadan Special, right? I know the first 5 ranks from it already.

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unkei
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Post by unkei » Nov 12th, '05, 14:09

just finished watching the 4th ep~~ it was good, but i thought it could have been better in some areas:

i loved the elevator scene, and the rain scene, and pretty much all the scenes with domyouji/tsukushi interaction!! YAY!! but...
the apple thing. that was so stupid!! i think it was supposed to draw an analogy to the bit in the manga where little domyouji ruins little rui's favourite teddy bear, because at the end of his story in the drama, domyouji says that he took something rui loves away from him forever. i don't know why they had to use such an unrealistic and out of character example though...couldn't they just have stuck to the teddy bear story? and why were the other two f4 dancing the cha-cha? anyhows that scene was totally useless =__=
can't wait for the next ep when domyouji~ (edit: spoiler for episode 5!)
says he believes her =D GYAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

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Kathleen
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Post by Kathleen » Nov 12th, '05, 15:11

I found that scene really weird, too. My first guess was they made them dance so they'll have some fangirls drooling over the two of them as well. They danced and sang quite a lot in MG, too, probably as some kind of advertising for their music career.
Also it portrays in an exaggerated way (which is meant to be exagerated as you see when Tsukushi questions if it really happened) that Doumyouji was being totally ignored by the others. What is there better than to make them sillily dance like some monkeys while he's pouting?
However, I'm of the opinion they could've come up with some better reason than that. But that was supposed to be the joke of it all, I guess - Rui tearing up over such a silly and obvious lie. ^^; (And I think it was also a lie that he teared up. :scratch: )
i think it was supposed to draw an analogy to the bit in the manga where little domyouji ruins little rui's favourite teddy bear, because at the end of his story in the drama, domyouji says that he took something rui loves away from him forever.
When does he say he took something away 'forever'? I also thought it was something similar to the teddy bear story as in terms of paying back later. But didn't he already back at the airport? They probably wanted to show yet another of Doumyouji's kinder faces as he still remembers that he once hurt his friend even after a couple of years (or in this case months).

zgnoud
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Post by zgnoud » Nov 12th, '05, 15:22

hrmms. so it seems they are replacing the Apple with Rui's Teddy bear? heh ah wells.

nah actually if i can recall correctly, this happens AFTER Rui comes back and supposedly kissed makino. b/c of that Tsubasa left for Canada? and yeah Rui then tells Tsubasa it was to get back at him for the teddy bear / which in this case is the apple?

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Post by makino_sanbr » Nov 12th, '05, 15:44

this is so inhuman,cruel,impipious,pitless...
I only will be able to see the 4 episode on MONDAY
T___T
Oh good lord this so cruel.. so cruel..
I already read all spoiler... I have tears in my eyes...
this is so cruel with a totally freak crazy HYD fan like me....
But please more spoilers.. so i can get until monday... U_U

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Kathleen
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Post by Kathleen » Nov 12th, '05, 16:00

@ zgnoud: What do you mean "supposedly"?
They did kiss at the beach. The only thing Doumyouji (his first name is TsuKasa btw) thought them to do although it never happened was having sex.
To answer your question: The reason why he left for Canada was that he couldn't stand seeing them together. He didn't want to go on fighting Rui either because of the teddy bear (which is only a symbol of course).

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icyblue_flame
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Post by icyblue_flame » Nov 12th, '05, 16:03

Ah! Showing one episode per week is just killing me! The cliffhanger at the end plus the evil preview of next week's episode is just twisting my heart!
Sakurako-chan smiling at a corner is so kowaii but i was smiling away when she said shinji de! Ah one of the best parts of HYD is coming up!
The lift scene was so funny! The part where Doumyoji was shiverin with cold reminded of Matsujun in Kimi Wa Petto kinda similar with the fever and all
Why did they have to stop the kiss there? Then show the picture of them before the "kissing" hahaha
The guy in the bar looks wierd kinda like trying to follow one of the guys in the taiwanese version of F4? hahaha, when Makino Tsukushi wakes up, she actually turns her head around under the white blanket! So kawaii! Who does that under the covers hahaha
I can't wait for the subs to be out. There's also alot more soujiro and akira in this episode which is great. I think there should be more in the future!

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sunmoon
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Post by sunmoon » Nov 12th, '05, 18:23

lol somehow i really like that teddy bear part :( it sux if they d cut it out :( its just so cuteee :D
i agree w every1 bout the dancin part... looked quite stupid to me lol
about kinsan... i dun think makino was being easy... she just had so many probs goin on at that time... n i dunno... its like she was really really down.. n then all of a sudden she met this great guy who could cheer her up and made her believe in herself ^^ she thought he even was in the same situation as she was in.... i mean it looked like hes perfect for her in every way... n with him she wouldnt hav to worry bout many stuff... :D so she was confused if she should be with him n lead a happy normal life, or be with sm1 she really loved even if it meant she would hav to fight!! (tsukasa :D)
the amnesia part... agree that makino was too reserved... that part pissed me off a great deal >.> i thought tsukasa was so stupid n makino should just forget bout him (which she eventually decided to) however after a few scenes everythin went back to normal <-- me happy :D

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Emi801
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Post by Emi801 » Nov 12th, '05, 18:45

Ahh Episode 4 was very entertaining~! I am glad that they have changed little things with the elevator scene, so it isn't exactly like the anime or manga. I was REALLY glad that she pulled out regular medicine from her bag instead of Leek or whatever that was originally.


As for the dance club scene, the beginning of it with those guys dancing gave me scary flashbacks to the HYD live action movie with Uchida Yuki and Tanihara Shosuke. I expected them to switch to TRF's Overnight Sensation and everyone to break out into spontaneous choreographed dance ^____^

shiruchan
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Post by shiruchan » Nov 12th, '05, 22:55

Kathleen wrote: My expression was probably just like Tsukushi's when he winked at her. I found it rather icky to tell you the truth.
Same goes to me. Jun is cute winking at her, but AS Doumyouji, I found it a little strange.
Kathleen wrote: Me too!! XD Good to know I'm not the only one that was all teared up during that scene. I remember I was like: "Don't you dare get into the bus. If you do I'm gonna hate you!" And she did. -_- So I decided: "Okay girl, too bad but I've gotta hate you now." But when she suddenly stood in front of Doumyouji I had to change my mind again and was like: "Hey, sorry about earlier, I love you! T_T" I'm crazy... :lol
I just felt the same! I would never forgive Tsukushi if she really did it. After all things Doumyouji did for her, THE LEAST she could do was what she ended up doing.
Kathlee wrote:
As for the marriage: Why didn't it make sense to you? Frankly spoken I was surprised he didn't ask her sooner. Lol. Maybe it's because it's not all that uncommon in Germany to get engaged early (although hardly anyone marries at such young age).
It was not I didn´t like the asking from Doumyoji, what I didn´t like was the reaction of Tsukushi. Gosh, with a man like him, why should she hesitate? And refuse??? There are so many moments that I just would like to beat up Tsukushi, because she was so... hmmm... ungrateful?

Oh, I didn´t see Hanadan special. So, could you tell me the 5 ran, please? :roll

Finally watched episode 4!
Oh, God... Doumyoji is getting better and better... so cute!!!!!!!!! Love when he said
to Akira and Soujiro that he would never hurt Tsukushi... oh... so sweet...
I liked all the scenes, except for:
the apple thing, like many of you said. I didn´t understand what the hell they were trying to talk about!!!!! Too ridiculous, too silly, too unnecessary. I would prefer the teddy bear thing instead.
Akira and Soujiro dancing was not ridiculous to me, though. Well, sometimes we also do some stupid somethings, right? I didn´t care too much about it.
Conclusion: this series is getting better each episode! I think in this one, Doumyoji was really Douymouji - except for the winking scene. The third episode he was very cute, but I found Doumyoji too soft. In this forth episode, he´s perfect!!!!

YAY!!!! So I guess we´re going to see on 5th or 6th episode the
neckless scene
I would say that because of the puzzle Doumyoji was doing. It seems to be
a saturn puzzle, don´t you think?
What a big post, sorry about that. Too many things I had to say, hehe!!!! :lol

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unkei
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Post by unkei » Nov 12th, '05, 23:31

shiruchan wrote:YAY!!!! So I guess we´re going to see on 5th or 6th episode the
neckless scene
I would say that because of the puzzle Doumyoji was doing. It seems to be
a saturn puzzle, don´t you think?
yeah that's what i thought too!!
even if it wasn't saturn, it'd be pretty meaningfuly cos he made it himself. waaaaaah i can't wait to see the scene when he gives it to her...so does this mean they won't cuto ut all the stuff where she goes to be a maid at his house? *hopes they won't*

angelic_poring
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Post by angelic_poring » Nov 12th, '05, 23:48

... does that mean that they'd cut out..
the canada scene? although i'm not sure that i'd say it's my favourite scene.. but nevertheless.. it's sweet.. it'd be nice if they'd act it out.. :( bleh...

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Kathleen
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Post by Kathleen » Nov 13th, '05, 01:28

Emi801 wrote:it isn't exactly like the anime or manga. I was REALLY glad that she pulled out regular medicine from her bag instead of Leek or whatever that was originally.
Wow, I didn't know you're in this community, too! *happy* (You probably don't even remember me. Never mind though. All you've got to know is that I love your site and your F4 fl!)
Uhm... I'm actually quite happy about the changes, too (not about most character changes though). Mostly... I was kind of sad she didn't pull out a leek. The scene was so funny in the anime, especially when he thought she wanted to kill him with that thing.
shiruchan wrote:After all things Doumyouji did for her, THE LEAST she could do was what she ended up doing.
*nods* That's why I was very sad about the course of the story when Tsukushi followed Doumyouji to NY but he rejected her. Hello? The deal was to turn her down not to be so cold. From then on hardly anything made sense to me. There were some nice scenes in the last few volumes but I don't really like the story past volume 28.
Ahh, now I see what you mean about the marriage. And I totally agree! I think it's only natural to at least once or twice think about such things as marrying once you're being with the one you really love. And after all they had gone through and with having her realizing over and over again how much he means to her, the only answer she gave him was to spit her Ramen on his face. Oh dear... :roll She could've at least just say: "Sorry but it's too early to talk about it now." (Although with all their life and death situations they had passed the stage of a plain highschool romance a long time ago.)

The top 5 ranking of the most popular scenes (according to the Hanadan Special which you can download there: http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... 478e0a35e4):
(Major manga spoilers)
#5: Saturn Necklace (What the, only the 5th?!?!)
#4: "I believe you" (What the?!?!?! ONLY the 4th??)
#3: Doumyouji stopping the bus. (Wh...at..... th..e... *tired*)
#2: Rui's warm words in NY. (WHAAAAT THEEE?! Why is this even in the top 5?!)
#1: Their sad good-bye in the rain. ;_; (I never considered this as a nice scene though. Way too sad.)
Akira and Soujiro dancing was not ridiculous to me, though. Well, sometimes we also do some stupid somethings, right? I didn´t care too much about it.
I get your point. Sometimes we really do things that don't make any sense. But I think we hardly do them totally out of the blue. They were peacefully having tea on the sofa when they suddenly stood up and decided to shake their bodies like crazy... without music. Now if that isn't strange, I don't know.

JC, I didn't think of that when I saw the puzzle!!! Wah, that's so great! Although I don't think it will be a good idea to put the SN scene into the 5th episode already. Ack. The 5th already? Which means we're already half way through. :pale:

@ angelic_poring: I doubt they'll have anything like the Canada scene in the drama.
That's if you're talking about the night they spent together. I don't even want to see them like that, either really. It's one thing to have 2 manga or anime characters being in the nude (or only half naked) together but for real actors it's different. Makes me think: They play such pure characters but are bold enough to do such a thing.
@ sunmoon: You're right with what you said about Tsukushi and Kin-san.
However I think she should have been troubled enough with those two guys she already had to deal with. Some really big things were happening, like Doumyouji going to NY, while she was having a date with Kin-san. I don't even think she really loved Doumyouji at that point already (there certainly was some kind of bond between them by then but I wouldn't exactly call it love). But still... I think when one is troubled like she was at that time there's no way to be attracted to someone new. Distracted, yes. (As she was a little when she was with Rui in NY) but nothing more. Remember Kin-san and Tsukushi were about to kiss when sth interrupted them.
[How scary, the melody of that weird funk song they play in the club in ep 1 sticks in my mind.]
Last edited by Kathleen on Nov 13th, '05, 02:04, edited 1 time in total.

angelic_poring
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Post by angelic_poring » Nov 13th, '05, 01:58

kathleen: but.. but.... yea.. i see what you mean.. i couldn't imagine it either.. but.... *SIGH* >_<;;;
and i agree with you about the leek thing.. it wuz hilarious in the anime, and so random too
oh.. and LOL at ur comments about the manga rankings.. XD

Philmein
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Post by Philmein » Nov 13th, '05, 06:04

Not to sound gay or anything (coming from a guy), but will Rui come back? I actually like him; cool guy. I'd prefer him with Tsukushi than with Domoyoji.

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Inoue
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Post by Inoue » Nov 13th, '05, 09:52

Philmein wrote:Not to sound gay or anything (coming from a guy), but will Rui come back? I actually like him; cool guy. I'd prefer him with Tsukushi than with Domoyoji.
yes he will return

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Post by jaycee05 » Nov 13th, '05, 10:12

Mannnnnnnnnn, what an episode. This drama is getting better and better. I just cant believe how GREAT it is!!!!!!!!! Even if I know the basics of the story, it feels so fresh when I actually see it acted out. And I am sorry for doubting Jun's capabilities on pulling off the other side of Domyouji! Byebye dao ming si, and everything about MG. I wubb this drama :cry:
I didnt really mind the apple story, I thought it was funny how they showed that there is the stupid/comical side of F4. Shun, sitting there like a little boy so focused on grinding the apple(just watch the rhythmic movements :lol --and saying things that were actually made up by Domyouji's imagination...hahaha, I found it entertaining.
I also like the longgg cyclic and confusing explanation about REM. HAHA, I even went back twice and read those parts again.

Episode 3
My favorite part was when Tsukushi chased Domyouji to ask about the "date" and when Tsukasa saw it was Tsukushi..<insert macho-slash-annoyed voice saying, "NANDAYO!" ...and then, "HummingYAY" lol :lol

rhap
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Post by rhap » Nov 13th, '05, 10:13

whoa - the subs for ep 5 came out so quickly...many kudos to furransu and Backalley!!

HYD just gets better and better...except, the end is nearing and i wonder how the drama is going to end - hopefully not a rushed ending but at this rate....

I liked the parts when:

- Tsukasa hugged Tsukushi at the beginning - and the music and medium range shot following the shot of thier reactions were so cute..
- elevator scene was hilarious...
- the scene when Sojiro (sp?) and Akira was saying that Tsukasa will end up hurting Tsukushi and then Tsukasa responds by saying that he'll won't let anything hurt Tsukushi..
- the scene at the cafe when Tsukasa was telling the apple story....does that foreshadow the fact that Rui is going to take what Tsukasa loves most (Tsukushi) but in the end give it back to him? I know this probably sounds farfetched - but does the apple sort of (in a way) represent Tsukushi?
- the parts when Tsukasa pieces together the puzzle - he looks so cute...
- and the part when Tsukasa saw the photo - so sad....

--- can't wait till ep 5
just wondering, anyone know where i could find instrumentals from HYD?

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Post by lilswtangel » Nov 13th, '05, 11:05

I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this.............

(at 52 pages, it's kinda hard to skim through this thread now :lol), but although I know the drama can't fit every little detail into its 9 episodes, the writers (probably intentionally ?) left out that Rui was a violinist, a very very very talented violinist.

why does that matter? I'm not too sure, but to me I feel that music has always been an important aspect of Hanazawa Rui's life. I've always associated the color white as well as the instument "the violin" with Rui and somehow he seems incomplete without it.

bleh, I'm just jabbering nonsense.........but hey, wouldn't it be cool if there were others out there who feels the same? :lol

escapist
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Post by escapist » Nov 13th, '05, 17:10

Hi guys! New here. Notice most of you have your own expectations of the drama cos of the manga/MG. I watched MG, but that was quite a few years ago, and i realise i've forgotten most of it already lol. So I'm quite amazed at how you people can remember and compare all the details so well.

Like most of you, i'm SO loving HYD.
Just watched ep 4!
First thing I must comment on is the cinematography. Brilliant. My favie shots:
1. The camera pulliing slowly away from the top of the elevator, with the two sleeping in it.
2. The jigsaw's stars transforming into real stars. Pretty!
I find this ep extra funny as well.. I for one find the shopkeeper more entertaining than irritating lol. As long as her scenes are not too long i guess.

Tsukasa! :wub: To be honest I find myself liking Rui more at the beginning of HYD, but now, Tsukasa has COMPLETELY won me over. Major adorable. Of course I'm talking about all those sweet things he did and said in his ep, but i especially found him hard to not love when:
1. He flapped his arms like an idiot outside Tsukushi's house lol
2. The dreaming-and-waking-up speech of his. Funny!!

And i was impressed with Jun's acting once again. That last scene where we actually saw his tears welling up, and him swallowing hard. :O :thumright:

Like some of you, I didnt really like
the apple story at first. I was like, what's up with F2 doing their cha-cha thing? And Rui grinding his apple with a somewhat (sorry Rui fans) gay look? And believing mashed apples cause early balding?
Call me dumb, but I only realised it was just Tsukasa's story and NOT the actual thing, after reading your posts ROFL. Now I accept the whole thing being silly haha! :lol

I don't really know anything about the teddy bear some of you talked about.. but i like rhap's theory of the apple being a signifier of Tsukushi, and how Kathleen interpreted that scene as an insight into Tsukasa's loneliness. Never thought of it that way.
Can a kind soul explain to me what's happening in the preview? That part wasn't really subbed for me.

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Post by melonyhappy » Nov 13th, '05, 19:05

I remember this part in the manga (ending of ep. 4) i felt sorrry for Tsukushi. . How can someone be so cruel?? :cry: I can't wait until ep. 5 comes out.

I had my doubts at the beginning whether jun can pull off Domyouji (because he doesn't look very tough), but he's just great. I like this drama a lot better than meteor garden. The acting in this drama is a lot better than in meteor garden... and it doesn't drag as much either.

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Kathleen
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Post by Kathleen » Nov 13th, '05, 20:04

Welcome to our community, escapist! :-)
Wow, I really like your post. I was mostly impressed about your references to the cinematographie (which nobody else did yet as far as I know). Could it be you're a media studies major, too? Cause I am and this is basically what we're talking about day in and day out in the movie studies course. Hehe. I also liked the zoom out of the elevator. A couple of other really good shots are in the first episode when the F4 make their first appearance. I especially liked Soujiro's introduction. Err, you know what I mean? That camera turning, fast forward thingy effect... (Gosh, what a miserable explanation.) I also found it quite well done they managed to shoot the F4 from various perspectives that made all of them look about the same hight. It really is true that Japanese set a high value on esthetics.
2. The dreaming-and-waking-up speech of his. Funny!!
I don't really know which scene you're talking about. From which episode?
And Rui grinding his apple with a somewhat (sorry Rui fans) gay look?

Lol. I found it rather cute. In a childish way that is.
I don't really know anything about the teddy bear some of you talked about..

That was from the manga / anime.
After Doumyouji saw Tsukushi and Rui kissing at the beach he declared them war but eventually decided to give in as some sort of pay back for having destroyed Rui's beloved teddy bear once in their childhood. Although Doumyouji had been feeling guilty the whole time he never apologized, yet Rui forgave him and didn't hold a grudge on him. So Doumyouji thought if he let him be with Tsukushi they'd be even for what had happened back then. Pretty silly story actually. :glare:
Can a kind soul explain to me what's happening in the preview? That part wasn't really subbed for me.
I didn't watch the preview as I'm not too fond of spoiler but if my common sense doesn't fail me
Doumyouji should realize he left her to a bunch of violent lunatics and comes back to her help --> "If you say you didn't do it, I believe you." :wub:
@angelic_poring: Aw, sorry I think the way I marked the spoiler was kind of unclear. This wasn't my personal favourites ranking but the one from the official Hanadan website, hence everone's farvourite scenes which is why I'm so bummed about the second rank. ^^; Good there's someone who has the same humor (in case of the leek that is), hehe.
@lilswtangel: I'm also kind of sad they left that part out. They made him a bookworm instead. This is so not Rui. He's supposed to be interested in nothing. But as the violin symbolizes his sensivity in the manga / anime they made him tear up quite often instead in the drama.[/b]

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Post by shiruchan » Nov 14th, '05, 01:12

I´ve downloaded the subtitles for episode 04, but I guess there are some mistakes... My Japanese is not good, so if someone could help me just to understand it better, please...

At the restaurant scene, when Tsukushi and Doumyouji are talking about the apple...
After all his explanation about the apple, he says to her:
- "Omae ni honki de horeraretara, Rui datte omae ni horete shimau yo"
Which actually means: "If I fall in love with you, Rui will fall in love with you too", instead as written on subtitles: "If you really like him, he´ll definitely fall for you as well". Is it right?
And then, Doumyouji says: "Ore ga mitometeita onna dakara, sou ni kimatterun darou", which I think that means: "Because you´re the woman that I admire, and that´s what´s gonna happen". So the story about the apple would make sense.
I´ve asked my friend who is fluent in Japanese (almost a japanese, actually), and he said it so. I was confused about the subtitles, cause I undestood something totally different, so, if someone here is fluent in Japanese, please, le me know. :roll

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Post by wachi » Nov 14th, '05, 01:36

Kathleen wrote:
After Doumyouji saw Tsukushi and Rui kissing at the beach he declared them war but eventually decided to give in as some sort of pay back for having destroyed Rui's beloved teddy bear once in their childhood. Although Doumyouji had been feeling guilty the whole time he never apologized, yet Rui forgave him and didn't hold a grudge on him. So Doumyouji thought if he let him be with Tsukushi they'd be even for what had happened back then. Pretty silly story actually. :glare:
I didn't read or watch the anime, but what? I like Rui and all, but I don't prefer him with Tsukushi, so why are they.. you know? What volume of the manga is this? Does Rui and Tsukushi go out in the manga or anime? :scratch:

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 14th, '05, 05:00

Well, in the anime . . .
Rui and Tsukushi try going out on a date. The date doesn't go badly, but you can pretty much tell that they just don't have any chemistry. It's actually kinda hard to watch, because she seems to try too hard, and he seems barely there. He is ice; she is fire. The manga-ka is kinda ruthless in showing how her feelings toward Rui were a projection of her school angst. If school didn't suck, she wouldn't have fallen for Rui.
Along those lines, I've been extremely impressed with how the show's depicted Tsuki's relationship with her school. To me, it's the most crucial context in order to establish her as a person and the two boys, esp. since the show is very, very short.

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Post by escapist » Nov 14th, '05, 09:51

Thanks Kathleen for the explanation on the teddy bear! Seems pretty silly to me as well lol.
Kathleen wrote:Could it be you're a media studies major, too? Cause I am and this is basically what we're talking about day in and day out in the movie studies course. Hehe.
GAHH! You're a media studies major? -impressed- Nah I'm not one, sad to say. It's just that I really love to see movies, dramas, or MVs shot beautifully with interesting angles and shots. Makes it such a pleasure to watch. But sadly most of my friends don't notice these kinda things, they say I'm gushing over secondary things, haha. Which is such a waste! The crew's efforts go unappreciated.

Anyway, I have to say that is one factor I absolutely love about HYD, and one reason I call it a high-quality version of MG, hee. Numerous scenes I loved since ep 1, like the ones you mentioned (yes I know what you meant!), and:
-How the cars pulled up slowly one by one, with the rich kids sitting at the same position in each car looking so very disinterested.
-The fire escape- How they like to have the camera from a distance and height away.
-How the orange juice droplets squirted out, and then into Tsukasa's eye.
-How they filmed Tsukushi's feet before she fought everytime.
-Many many more. Almost every shot is a masterpiece! :wub:
2. The dreaming-and-waking-up speech of his. Funny!!
I don't really know which scene you're talking about. From which episode?
Haha ep 4, when Tsukasa made his speech about the REM/RAM thing in the canteen, because of a comment Akira made about Tsukushi. My subs are Chinese, but he said something like "Even if it's you guys, you should know that dreamtalk should be made when you're dreaming and not when you're awake. You can dreamtalk when you're awake, but when you're awake you shouldnt dreamtalk....Beacuse when you're awake....You're awake......." I don't know! He just wasn't making sense and he started looking confused himself LOL. Makes me wanna giggle just thinking about it again. :mrgreen:

Speaking of which.. can someone explain what's the REM thing they talked about? Kinda clueless.
And, why did Tsukasa suddenly go the the rest of the students in the canteen and do the cheering thing??
And after reading what you guys wrote about what's going to happen in the next ep, I'm suddenly reminded of how heartbroken I felt for Tsukasa in MG at that point. :-( Nooooo.. Why can't Tsukushi feel what we feel? BAHH.

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Post by chckboy5 » Nov 14th, '05, 10:39

man im hooked on this drama, jsut finished ep 4

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Post by makino_sanbr » Nov 14th, '05, 16:00

:wub:
and ever single episode is even better that the other one before...
this 4 episode is so cute!!!!
I loved so many parts..
of course all of them with Doumyoji and his stupid, kindness..
my favorite part
Is when He said that he never will get Tsukushi be hurt!!!
>_< So kawaii!!!! :wub:
And i laughter a lot too...
with her family.. and they boss... i don't think that is annoying...
But the most hilarious for me was when Doumyoji talks about R.E.M...
Was so funny.. i get so confused... XD
and the apple thing i think that was hilarious too...
And about the apple
When i first saw in Raw... and i don't understand Japanese...
i thought... "Is Doumyoji version about the facts... isn't? Could not be this way..."
and when i saw with the subtitles... (was the 4 time that was watching this episode) i was totally sure...
IS Doumyoji imagination... i didn't get serious about that...
the 'gay' Rui and Cha cha dance...
Was so hilarious... see how Doumyoji get things... hehehe
I really think that they will explain.. what really happen about that apple...
they must... :glare:
the others vision about this...
because how Doumyoji told... really was funny... but can't be XD
I could do the gigantic post ever.. because i loved this episode...
but 2 things i want to say
Fir ts....
How everybody was telling to tsukushi how serious was Doumyoji about like her...
and how serious is showing already is this situation... because in the main history... get a lit bit more time to be so serious...
but I really think that Doumyoji.. how shows in Drama was since the begging very serious about his feelings... and what he wanted....
two
I think that the major people agree.. that how time pass the episodes are getting better and better...
But this is so Sad...
Is getting so good... but we are already in the middle..
This so sad... I really wanna more that 9 episodes... :cry:

And for the next episodes...
I waiting
The " I believe " scene!!!!! :w00t:
And of course the Saturn necklace...
that Puzzle did make me anxious about that... :goggle:

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Post by chckboy5 » Nov 15th, '05, 03:41

anyone got pics of makino?

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Post by Vegan-in-furcoat » Nov 15th, '05, 04:04

chckboy5 wrote:anyone got pics of makino?
screen cap?

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Post by chckboy5 » Nov 15th, '05, 04:09

any cute ones haha

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Post by moonlit » Nov 15th, '05, 04:21

^^ what do you want to do with them? (just wondering)

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Post by chckboy5 » Nov 15th, '05, 04:29

^desktop background, gotta change ito misaki

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 15th, '05, 04:30

This link is pretty good for Inoue Mao pics.

http://www.alpha-net.ne.jp/users2/gerug ... b0043n.htm

And this has loads of screencaps.

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/categor ... ori-dango/

Speaking as a guy, she's a bit too young for me to find her anything but cute, but her comic acting is excellent, and her way with physical comedy is exceptional. This actress really knows how to listen and physically react according to situation. Which is surprising because I think her previous roles have been playing troubled girls. I don't think she's so much depicting Makino but grounding the emotional reality of the whole story.

I'll say one thing about her look, though. She has a mouth to die for, a deeply expressive, open door that can beautifully convey both the topsy and the turvy of love. And depending on how they (probably) play a crucial scene next episode, it should help make one beautiful moment.

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Post by Toritorisan » Nov 15th, '05, 08:35

shiruchan wrote:I´ve downloaded the subtitles for episode 04, but I guess there are some mistakes... My Japanese is not good, so if someone could help me just to understand it better, please...

At the restaurant scene, when Tsukushi and Doumyouji are talking about the apple...
After all his explanation about the apple, he says to her:
- "Omae ni honki de horeraretara, Rui datte omae ni horete shimau yo"
Which actually means: "If I fall in love with you, Rui will fall in love with you too", instead as written on subtitles: "If you really like him, he´ll definitely fall for you as well". Is it right?
And then, Doumyouji says: "Ore ga mitometeita onna dakara, sou ni kimatterun darou", which I think that means: "Because you´re the woman that I admire, and that´s what´s gonna happen". So the story about the apple would make sense.
I´ve asked my friend who is fluent in Japanese (almost a japanese, actually), and he said it so. I was confused about the subtitles, cause I undestood something totally different, so, if someone here is fluent in Japanese, please, le me know. :roll
I just finished watching Episode 4, and I loved this scene (even more after hearing the literal translation). In both the anime and Meteor Garden, I always liked Rui's character. But in this drama, Matsumoto Jun's performance is so good (his acting is getting better and better with every drama he does!), that I'm rooting for Doumyoji and Tsukushi all the way!

I hope they make a second series of this or something. Nine eps are just too short! Can't wait for next week!

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Post by fybabe » Nov 15th, '05, 09:27

Toritorisan wrote:
shiruchan wrote:I´ve downloaded the subtitles for episode 04, but I guess there are some mistakes... My Japanese is not good, so if someone could help me just to understand it better, please...

At the restaurant scene, when Tsukushi and Doumyouji are talking about the apple...
After all his explanation about the apple, he says to her:
- "Omae ni honki de horeraretara, Rui datte omae ni horete shimau yo"
Which actually means: "If I fall in love with you, Rui will fall in love with you too", instead as written on subtitles: "If you really like him, he´ll definitely fall for you as well". Is it right?
And then, Doumyouji says: "Ore ga mitometeita onna dakara, sou ni kimatterun darou", which I think that means: "Because you´re the woman that I admire, and that´s what´s gonna happen". So the story about the apple would make sense.
I´ve asked my friend who is fluent in Japanese (almost a japanese, actually), and he said it so. I was confused about the subtitles, cause I undestood something totally different, so, if someone here is fluent in Japanese, please, le me know. :roll
What?!!
So does that mean,
Because dom thinks he owes rui a favour (stupid apple story) that he might actually give makino up if rui is to fall in love with her??
is that why dom has this sad/complex look when he told makino this?
that's such... an unhappy thought... and i got a bad feeling something like this will happen when rui comes back... i don't like this!!! it's giving me a bad feeling in my tummy... poor dom!! now i hurt for him more............
don't panic... don't panic... hope this hypothesis won't really happen... keeps fingers crossed...
but this has also been discussed at some chinese forums. but i my feeling is even stronger now with your translation... sob...

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Post by son_yejin » Nov 15th, '05, 09:35

I'm impressed, thus far, this has been the first japanese drama to pull me back into the intriguing world of japanese dramas since the hallyu wave swept me away almost 2 years back.

I watched Hana Yori Dango Live Action episode 1 with expectations equivalent to that of a matchstick. Having watched Meteor Garden and being smitten and overly-obsessed with that taiwanese drama, i didnt expect, in my wildest dreams that the japanese version would leave me hooked and clambering for more!

Watched all 4 episodes in what- 2 days? including downloading etc. I feel the obsession creeping right back! :lol

As escapist had mentioned, the cinematography is just a pure work of genius. Every single scene left me marvelled at the details, the camera angles. In short EVERYTHING.

I was previously rooting for Rui while watching the first 2 episodes BUTslowly, but definitely, I found myself falling for Doumyoji more and more... And it's safe to say; I've lost it! puhaha... His mannerisms, his speech, even the way he he walks for god's sake, had me giggling like some schoolgirl. Man, i'm embarassing myself here! :lol

Anyways, the next episode- Episode 5, can never come fast enough.

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Post by renko » Nov 15th, '05, 10:29

Hi! I'm new here. :D

Just replying to fybabe's post:
fybabe wrote: What?!!
So does that mean,
Because dom thinks he owes rui a favour (stupid apple story) that he might actually give makino up if rui is to fall in love with her??
is that why dom has this sad/complex look when he told makino this?
that's such... an unhappy thought... and i got a bad feeling something like this will happen when rui comes back... i don't like this!!! it's giving me a bad feeling in my tummy... poor dom!! now i hurt for him more............
don't panic... don't panic... hope this hypothesis won't really happen... keeps fingers crossed...
but this has also been discussed at some chinese forums. but i my feeling is even stronger now with your translation... sob...
Hmm, I think you misinterpreted it. :-)
I think what Doumyoji means is that if Rui falls in love with Makino, he may lose her to him. I think he's voicing a fear more than anything else. I guess it's kind of like bad karma. He stopped Rui from eating apples, something he loves, so now he knows it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. He's afraid that losing Makino to Rui will be that consequence. I think that makes a little more sense. :-)
Hope I eased your panicking. ^^

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Post by wingli » Nov 15th, '05, 10:42

well , i 've only seen 2 ep from now (problem of time) and i have to say that i like much the japanese version than the taiwanese , in fact ''f4"(tw) are more handsome but i think that the japanese have done almost think like in the manga....

didn't vote only saw 2ep....

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Post by son_yejin » Nov 15th, '05, 12:54

Toritorisan wrote:
shiruchan wrote:I´ve downloaded the subtitles for episode 04, but I guess there are some mistakes... My Japanese is not good, so if someone could help me just to understand it better, please...

At the restaurant scene, when Tsukushi and Doumyouji are talking about the apple...
After all his explanation about the apple, he says to her:
- "Omae ni honki de horeraretara, Rui datte omae ni horete shimau yo"
Which actually means: "If I fall in love with you, Rui will fall in love with you too", instead as written on subtitles: "If you really like him, he´ll definitely fall for you as well". Is it right?
And then, Doumyouji says: "Ore ga mitometeita onna dakara, sou ni kimatterun darou", which I think that means: "Because you´re the woman that I admire, and that´s what´s gonna happen". So the story about the apple would make sense.
I´ve asked my friend who is fluent in Japanese (almost a japanese, actually), and he said it so. I was confused about the subtitles, cause I undestood something totally different, so, if someone here is fluent in Japanese, please, le me know. :roll
I just finished watching Episode 4, and I loved this scene (even more after hearing the literal translation). In both the anime and Meteor Garden, I always liked Rui's character. But in this drama, Matsumoto Jun's performance is so good (his acting is getting better and better with every drama he does!), that I'm rooting for Doumyoji and Tsukushi all the way!

I hope they make a second series of this or something. Nine eps are just too short! Can't wait for next week!
Toritorisan, totally agree with you. Share your sentiments exactly. Jun's acting improves by the episode(as if he isnt a brilliant actor already! 8) ), its hard for me not to like him- Hated him in episode 1 but gradually began to really take notice of him, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Doumyoji and Tsukushi! I'm behind you both! Aish, when i saw the credits rolling for episode 4, i was ready to throw my laptop out the darned window...pfff...

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Post by makino_sanbr » Nov 15th, '05, 17:51

renko wrote:Hi! I'm new here. :D

Hmm, I think you misinterpreted it. :-)
I think what Doumyoji means is that if Rui falls in love with Makino, he may lose her to him. I think he's voicing a fear more than anything else. I guess it's kind of like bad karma. He stopped Rui from eating apples, something he loves, so now he knows it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. He's afraid that losing Makino to Rui will be that consequence. I think that makes a little more sense. :-)
Hope I eased your panicking. ^^
Just to Agree with renko. I too think that was a misinterpreted ^_^
What i understand was something like a bad karma too... or Doumyoji tell to her that Rui will want everything that he loves...because he destroyed something that Rui loved..
that is so childish from Doumyoji.
And i still think that thing about the apple thing ...was Doumyoji imagination... :scratch:
Maybe something about a apple happened... but not exactly like doumyoji told... :glare:

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 15th, '05, 23:48

I hope they make a second series of this or something. Nine eps are just too short! Can't wait for next week!
I'm a bit worried about that too. The pace so far has been good, but to me it still looks like 11-12 episodes will be needed to properly show the story arc with Domyoji's mom. But I like what the director is doing, by running various manga mini-arcs in parallel. Plus . . .
And are they're going to hook Sojiro up with Yuki? Do they have time to do that? Will that be 2nd season?
As escapist had mentioned, the cinematography is just a pure work of genius. Every single scene left me marvelled at the details, the camera angles. In short EVERYTHING.
No doubt. The first episode has some well executed tracking shots; (plus, nice use of the "vertigo" zoom shot when somebody gets the Red ticket.) Also, there's some nice use of lighting and color photography to contrast the day and night, dawn and 3am club scenes.

But, what actually impressed me is the editing. Because you can kinda tell that they have a lot more footage than they're showing, and that they're trying their best to slice and dice to meet the time constraints. I think that's what I like most about the show -- the narrative is not only tightly paced, but gracefully interwoven -- you don't notice the very high # of scene changes in the show, the jokes and motifs in parallel, or how each episode builds on things that just barely registered in the previous episode. The editing seems a bit of a balancing act to me; go any faster and the character development will not cohere; go any slower, and you can't possibly reach a satisfying ending in just 9 epis.
I was previously rooting for Rui while watching the first 2 episodes BUTslowly, but definitely, I found myself falling for Doumyoji more and more... And it's safe to say; I've lost it! puhaha... His mannerisms, his speech, even the way he he walks for god's sake, had me giggling like some schoolgirl. Man, i'm embarassing myself here!
I really liked how the show has reinterpreted Dounmyoji. Instead of depicting him as the ultimate bullish, id-driven, frat-boy, they've instead shown him to be an obsessive, deeply miserable "Billy Jean." That's sure not the MG Dounmyoji and maybe not really the manga Dounmyoji, but in its own way, I think it's raised both the darkness of the core story, and the stakes at play. So, the effect has been two-fold. It enables seasoned HYD/MG fans to experience a much more intense, concentrated expression of the story. And for Jun fans, it's a showy role that really lets him go widescreen with the feelings. Dounmyoji is barely normal here, and that's what makes his part transfixing. If the show plays it right, he should take over the 2nd half of the series.

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Post by shiruchan » Nov 16th, '05, 01:03

I think Doumyouji told that (at the restaurant) because he´s afraid to lose Tsukushi to Rui, as some of you said. Since Doumyouji has taken away the most adored thing (the apple) from Rui, Doumyouji is afraid that Rui will take Tsukushi away from him, because she´s the one that Doumyoji adore at most. Some kind of revenge or something like that. So, I think Tsukushi will betray Doumyouji with Rui, which will hurt deep down (my dear) Doumyouji. But this is kinda predictable, hah?

About Soujiro and Yuki, I guess they´ll develop their relationship, honestly. Even between Akira and Kami-san (the dango shop owner). I bet they can do it, since there´s no time enough to do it. It would be nice, but I still prefer to watch more about Doumyouji and Tsukushi relationship development than other characters´.

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 16th, '05, 02:34

shiruchan:
About Soujiro and Yuki, I guess they´ll develop their relationship, honestly.
I guess I'd be really against that. It's in the manga, but I don't see why they can't wait.
Since Doumyouji has taken away the most adored thing (the apple) from Rui, Doumyouji is afraid that Rui will take Tsukushi away from him, because she´s the one that Doumyoji adore at most.
Part of me likes to think it's also Doumyoji's way of apologizing for all the evil stuff he did to her and to other people. The poor kid's terrified of things he can't control, like the pull of her heart. And it's been there since the beginning of the show. Which is part of what I like about Jun's portrayal of him. He KNOWS he's screwed up with Makino. He KNOWS he's going to have to prove himself a better person. The apple scene told me that he's already afraid of his feelings toward Makino, and that's he trying to tell her this without keeping a front.
Next week is just so crucial. I can see so many ways how they'll adapt Doumyoji's reaction from the manga. In the anime, they played up the surreal, abstract vibe of it, but I don't think that should be depicted in the show. I mean . . .
I mean, we see a glimpse of it in epi 4. He looked crushed, but he also couldn't even look at Makino. Did he think he deserved it? Did he feel betrayed by something/someone he couldn't control? Will he take it out on Makino? And so on. If they wanted to do the almost-rape scene, this would be a perfect way to insert that.

How will they make Doumyoji believe Makino?
Last edited by slippyepic on Nov 16th, '05, 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Toritorisan » Nov 16th, '05, 04:05

son_yejin wrote:I'm impressed, thus far, this has been the first japanese drama to pull me back into the intriguing world of japanese dramas since the hallyu wave swept me away almost 2 years back.

I watched Hana Yori Dango Live Action episode 1 with expectations equivalent to that of a matchstick. Having watched Meteor Garden and being smitten and overly-obsessed with that taiwanese drama, i didnt expect, in my wildest dreams that the japanese version would leave me hooked and clambering for more!

Watched all 4 episodes in what- 2 days? including downloading etc. I feel the obsession creeping right back! :lol
I totally agree with you. I've seen the movie, anime, and both Meteor Garden series, yet somehow I'm still drawn to this drama even though I know what's going to happen!

I was swept by the hallyu wave too and kinda took a break from Japanese dramas. But this season there are some really good ones! I'm really glad I tuned in!

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Post by jaycee05 » Nov 16th, '05, 05:44

slippyepic wrote:
I really liked how the show has reinterpreted Dounmyoji. Instead of depicting him as the ultimate bullish, id-driven, frat-boy, they've instead shown him to be an obsessive, deeply miserable "Billy Jean." That's sure not the MG Dounmyoji and maybe not really the manga Dounmyoji, but in its own way, I think it's raised both the darkness of the core story, and the stakes at play. So, the effect has been two-fold. It enables seasoned HYD/MG fans to experience a much more intense, concentrated expression of the story. And for Jun fans, it's a showy role that really lets him go widescreen with the feelings. Dounmyoji is barely normal here, and that's what makes his part transfixing. If the show plays it right, he should take over the 2nd half of the series.
Exactly!! I couldn't even word it any better....I wont even elaborate on it...coz that's just a perfect interpretation.
Im even hoping and maybe suspecting that they would characterize Domyouji's mother a bit different as well. Her role in both manga and MG is the stereotypical rich snobby and controlling-mommy...boring...i wish they would make her more interesting.

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Post by son_yejin » Nov 16th, '05, 08:01

I really liked how the show has reinterpreted Dounmyoji. Instead of depicting him as the ultimate bullish, id-driven, frat-boy, they've instead shown him to be an obsessive, deeply miserable "Billy Jean." That's sure not the MG Dounmyoji and maybe not really the manga Dounmyoji, but in its own way, I think it's raised both the darkness of the core story, and the stakes at play. So, the effect has been two-fold. It enables seasoned HYD/MG fans to experience a much more intense, concentrated expression of the story. And for Jun fans, it's a showy role that really lets him go widescreen with the feelings. Dounmyoji is barely normal here, and that's what makes his part transfixing. If the show plays it right, he should take over the 2nd half of the series.
Couldnt have said it better. *nods vehemently*
excellent interpretation!
I totally agree with you. I've seen the movie, anime, and both Meteor Garden series, yet somehow I'm still drawn to this drama even though I know what's going to happen!

I was swept by the hallyu wave too and kinda took a break from Japanese dramas. But this season there are some really good ones! I'm really glad I tuned in!
Toritorisan, i thought i was the only one!
Haha... I have this dreaded feeling I'm going to sit on the fence for abit. Obsessed over BOTH korean and japanese dramas. If that doesnt make me an addict, i don't know what will! :lol

But HYD has really got me, I'm at the point where I just wish time would fast forward so I could catch the next episode.pfff!!

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Post by ookamiki » Nov 16th, '05, 09:00

It seems i'm worst than everybody here .......

I think that i've watched MG1 3 or 4 times, MG2 2 times, the Hanadan anime 5 times ( 1 in a row in two days ) and i must have read the manga at least 10 times ( yes you read it well, i sais ten times...)

I'm totally addicted to this series,it's something that really cheer me on. I've got all the scanlations on the net - thanks ShoujoMagic and the others - and i've been buying the manga since it's edited in my language ( French ), and this even if i still prefer the scans....
This way i can lend my books to my friends and familly. That 's why i'm very proud of myself !!!
I've lend all of them to my sister and since she's been almost as addicted as me ( she has watched MG1 in less than one week, lucky her that didn't have to wait for each torrent to finish ....)

the only thing i haven't seen is the movie.... i've never found it....
If someone know where to find it, he would be a lifesaver .......
:cheers:

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Post by lilswtangel » Nov 16th, '05, 11:22

ookamiki wrote:It seems i'm worst than everybody here .......

I think that i've watched MG1 3 or 4 times, MG2 2 times, the Hanadan anime 5 times ( 1 in a row in two days ) and i must have read the manga at least 10 times ( yes you read it well, i sais ten times...)

I'm totally addicted to this series,it's something that really cheer me on. I've got all the scanlations on the net - thanks ShoujoMagic and the others - and i've been buying the manga since it's edited in my language ( French ), and this even if i still prefer the scans....
This way i can lend my books to my friends and familly. That 's why i'm very proud of myself !!!
I've lend all of them to my sister and since she's been almost as addicted as me ( she has watched MG1 in less than one week, lucky her that didn't have to wait for each torrent to finish ....)

the only thing i haven't seen is the movie.... i've never found it....
If someone know where to find it, he would be a lifesaver .......
:cheers:
now if that's not HYD obsessive, I don't know what is :whistling: :lol
While I consider myself a HYD fan, I can't imagine myself MG I & II more than 2 times at any rate.

but reading the manga's a different story..........I can reread it many times and again and not get bored of it. :-)

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ookamiki
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Post by ookamiki » Nov 16th, '05, 15:26

now if that's not HYD obsessive, I don't know what is Whistling Laugh
While I consider myself a HYD fan, I can't imagine myself MG I & II more than 2 times at any rate.

but reading the manga's a different story..........I can reread it many times and again and not get bored of it.
I don't find it hard to watch MG. Ok, i admit that most of the time i'm watching it while doing something else ( always something i don't feel like doing...) like cleaning my room, or cooking, or things that take your times but that don't you to be concentred on it.....
It's always enjoyable to do something watching those cute little guys.....

I do that with MG but it's impossible for me to do the same with the japonese version : last time i wanted to see the end of the episode but i had to cook the meal so i switch the ep to the tv next the kitchen, and somewhere it went wrong :crazy: : we ended up eating pasta.... :whistling
But i saw the whole episode !!!!!
: 8)

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Post by son_yejin » Nov 16th, '05, 18:34

ookamiki, i thought i held the record for watching MG the most number of times.
Guess not anymore!haha.. :lol
Watched MG 1 thrice, MG 2 once.
You have my respect! lol.. my friends were all coming me nuts when i told them of my 'feat'.
pfff... But thus far, i've watched HYD more than twice already, considering that so far, only 4 episodes are released! :roll

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Post by makino_sanbr » Nov 16th, '05, 21:48

:lol Cool..
I also a huge fan of Hanadan
I read ... i don't know how many times...
yesterday i was reading again
I was in the 6 vol..
when Doumyoji see Makino kissing Rui...
I always say~" Oh... poor Doumyoji.. he was so in love already :cry: "

I watched all 51 episodes from anime...
i watched MG1 two times...
But MG2... >_<
gosh! I didn't pass from the 10 episode...
i have cried a lot.. and give up.. because for me MG is not HYD
NEVER.. NEVER Doumyoji would be with other woman... even if he forgot about makino...
The only thing that was good about the part in manga that he loses his memory is this feeling that even if another woman (.. i don't like that disloyal Umi) tried
He would never fall from this kind of girl..
... really for me MG 2 isn't HYD! :glare:
If is to count this J-Drama i saw every episode at lest 3 times...
i saw in Raw, with softsubs, with hardsubs...
and when i'm doing the portuguese translation i watched again.
Well i really addict to HYD too
:whistling:

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Post by xKiMix » Nov 16th, '05, 22:07

I think i watched MG around 5 to 6 times, MG 2 once ( I couldn't stand it, but i had to finish it. I agree ^^ It is NOT HYD) I also read all of the Manga, all i need to do now is finish watching thr jdrama, and the anime. Seeing that the drama is only 9 episodes, i guess they won't be showing the part the manga where
Makino enters that Miss Japan contest, i think it would be really interesting.

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Post by Kathleen » Nov 16th, '05, 22:48

Here's another addict (big time!). :mrgreen:
I cannot say how often I watched the anime as there are episodes that I watched only once or twice but others that I've seen like 10 or 20 times. Same goes for the drama which I mostly pick of my favourite scenes so I can watch them over and over again.
As for the manga, I reread the story up to volume 28 about 3 times completely. But there are chapters that I must have read about 50 times. Yeah, I really am addicted... I'm not an otaku or anything. It's only this story, really. It's so inspiring and sweet. There are so many emotions, too. Wheather I feel happy and I want to read something funny or I'm depressed and feel like reading something sad or I want to have those fuzzy feelings again and looking for something romantic - I'll always find something to my liking in the manga. As funny as it may sound - it really means a lot to me. Especially because the charas grew so much on me it's almost like they're real. (Not in a psycho way that I believe they actually are real or anything.)
Oh, I don't care much for MG though. But that isn't really part of the Hanadan world. More like a burglar or something. :roll

As for your assumtions on the apple story: I came up with a really crazy idea yesterday while I was doing the laundry. Everything would make sense. And if that's it then it's something totally different from what we all thought before. It'd be too much of a concidence if that was it though. But it would be cool. More shall not be said or I'd be too embarrased if they'll prove me wrong in the future episodes.
Regarding Doumyouji, I'm not really convinced of the whole "bad karma" theory. It wouldn't make much sense to come up with a story like that in the first place. There's no connection whatsoever, right? Yet I don't believe it's to make him give up on Tsukushi, either. It's more like: He's my buddy, I've hurt him in the past and I really hope there isn't anything between the two of you so it won't end in hurting anyone again. Thus it shows his concern about his relation to Rui as much as his feelings for Tsukushi.

escapist: Gee, I didn't mean to brag about my major subject or anything, really. I just thought I found someone who studies the same. ^^; There's nothing really special about it either, to tell you the truth. However, let me tell you from what I've read from you (I followed the discussion for the last couple of days but I was too busy to reply) I really do recommend you to consider studying the same I do. You'd be perfect for it. We also have a lot of technical stuff, though. Quite a lot of maths, too. :pale: But as for the film studies part, I couldn't imagine anyone who's more qualified than you. It's always important to see the details that one usually only appreciates as a "whole beautiful it". You on the other hand really seem to be capable to filter every little piece of the puzzle and to judge it properly. I'm impressed!

And thanks, now I also know what "dream talk" part you were talking about. It wasn't really well translated in the softsubs and my listening comprehension still needs to improve, so I didn't really understand Doumyouji's monologue about REM. ^^;
And, why did Tsukasa suddenly go the the rest of the students in the canteen and do the cheering thing??
That's what I wanna know. Did anyone answer to this at all?

~~~

Lastly I shall let you know my wishlist for Christmas:
1. Tsubaki's boots!!! (ep 3)
2. Tsukushi's scarf (ep 3 / 4)
3. Tsukushi's black dress from episode 2 (or should I say "Doumyouji's"?)
4. Shizuka's shoes that she first lent Tsukushi (ep 2), then gave her as a present (ep 3)
5. Shizuka's coat (ep 2)
6. The school uniform, including the shoes
7. Tsukushi's shoes (or "Doumyouji's) when she was dressed up by Doumyouji (ep 2)
8. A guy like Doumyouji that looks like Shun but has Jun's teeth. Errm... Although this might be hard for Santa to get. Hmm...

Phew. :P[/i]

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Post by unkei » Nov 16th, '05, 23:28

Kathleen wrote:8. A guy like Doumyouji that looks like Shun but has Jun's teeth.
HAHAHA you're the first peron i've met who've complimented jun's teeth, even though it was an indirect compliment. jun's teeth looks better now, but it used to be REALLY REALLY bad. like REALLY bad. obviously he's had some sort of 'job' done to it. haha even now, he's got one teeth i think in his top left (top right? can't remember...) which sticks out weirdly, but the camera usually shies away from it a bit.

anyone notice how tall doumyouji was in the rain scene, and how the camera frame didn't show their shoes? xD i bet they made jun stand on something to make him seem taller~

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Post by shiruchan » Nov 17th, '05, 00:08

Kathleen wrote:And, why did Tsukasa suddenly go the the rest of the students in the canteen and do the cheering thing??
That's what I wanna know. Did anyone answer to this at all?
I guess there´s NO EXPLANATION to this. :lol Doumyouji do some... strange things sometimes... :whistling:
8. A guy like Doumyouji that looks like Shun but has Jun's teeth. Errm... Although this might be hard for Santa to get. Hmm...
Kathleen, you´re the best!!!! I wish Santa could give me Doumyoji too, but looking like Jun. I don´t find Shun so good-looking at all. This is totally off-topic, but Jun, to me, is perfect. I was watching Kimi wa Petto, and he was so thin in there (he still is), but now, in HYD, he got a little chubbier, which I prefer. Bones, no, meat, yes!!! :lol

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 17th, '05, 02:06

Oddly enough, my brother kinda looks like Shun, and a mate from university kinda looks like Jun. Waddya know? ;)

I haven't seen MG; I'll probably look for it after this J-drama finishes. My impression of MG's appeal is that it really amps up the idol / "Kings of Campus" vibe of the original storyline. Which naturally leads to a funnier, more outrageous show, and I think, would be a more valid adaptation of the storyline were a live-action adaptation allowed more episodes to breathe. The HYD J-drama can't realistically deliver that in its time span, and so instead we get basically a Donmyoji character study as seen through Makino's eyes. That's, to me, the bravest adaptation they could do, because there isn't really a convenient end point in the story arc to complete this study. To accomplish such a rounded picture, you must run a bunch of HYD story arcs in parallel from the get-go to give us a complete Domyoji, while risking a jumbled narrative. And you must have an actor who show us all facets but truly of the same soul.

Jun understands exactly what he wants to show us. His evil is monstrous, yet pathetic. Then again, so is the goodness of his love, which seems equally reared with pathos. Imagine having that much power and still having a heart of a child who's been spoiled yet starved. When you taste what truly nourishes the soul, how would you react? What would you do? How would you look at yourself, as an adult, of all the things you did, as an angry boy, in its absence? The Domyoji we see in the manga's long view, becomes a concentrate experience with THIS HYD. Can this show follow through?

But I am watching the live-action version of Mars, which has people who played the Makino and Rui, and THAT's bloody great. I understand that their acting chops significantly picked up between MG and Mars.

HYD is the "crack cocaine" of shoujo. It has one of the finest screwball romantic pairings I've ever seen or read. The characters grow up, sure, but especially the male leads remain ever true to themselves, and Makino is ever the fightingest of shoujo heroines. And especially key to these people, which is kinda a unique wrinkle in shoujo lit, is both the male and female preference to express their emotions through outrageous action than words. Meaning, they fight against and with each other into love, which in a screwball world, is closer to reality than the typical girl-save-bad-boy storyline. Just watching them fight and misunderstand and redeem each other, just like a classic 1940/1950s Hollywood comedy.

This can't be conveyed properly in the HYD J-drama, because there isn't enough time. Instead the success of this show really lies in how well they marry Makino's class struggle with Domyoji's man-child internalization of that world and Rui's platonic ceiling. And what I think the drama is eventually moving toward is Domyoji's coming-of-age and whether his maturation and release dictates whether Makino chooses Rui or Domyoji. Fans of the manga already knows the ending; but instead the J-drama wants us to study Domyoji, to really know him. Maybe to redeem him.

HYD kinda has two sides as a romance. You have the highly entertaining, classic screwball matchup with the cliques, the outrageous hair, and the comedy of fists. But you also have a depiction of truly obsessive, hungry love veering on smothering, destructive love. Ultimately, you realize that the source of her joy had never stopped being the source of her suffering too. Without the one, there couldn't have been the other. Without really understanding the connection, it can't work.

What I like about the HYD J-drama, above the other adaptation so far, is that it looks like it's getting really close to giving us a Domyoji who can understand and emphasize with Makino their bittersweet irony. Because the show has given us a Domyoji that, for all practical purposes, needs a Makino more than he likes this Makino. He is a child, nobody tells him no. But her.

The HYD anime gets maaligned by a lot of anime otakus who prefer shows like Love Hina, but I personally feel it's exceptional in its own right. First off, it has hands down one of the most romantic, lilting/stormy scores ever written for an anime. In fact, I sorely wished that I could just plunk out the J-drama's music and replace it with the main piano theme from the anime. Secondly, the anime had really unique art direction, where the backgrounds would morph in color and detail depending on the mood of the moment. Many of the night sequences have a thick, overbearing blackness to them, whereas the stairway sequences would be just barely drawn in. Domyoji's black moods would change his face into ugly purples and oranges. The anime's stage-like presentation gives the feels nearly as intimate as the manga, and Rui IMO is depicted most favorably in the anime. And, so, the anime distinguishes itself from the live-action adaptation (and even the manga) in giving us an expressive spectacle of Makino's vida loca. It is our awareness of her delicious but tart predicament that we relish.

Which is to say, there's so many ways to adapt this pliable storyline and come up with a definitive interpretation. And they're all worth visiting. :)
Last edited by slippyepic on Nov 17th, '05, 02:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by renko » Nov 17th, '05, 02:24

Kathleen wrote:Regarding Doumyouji, I'm not really convinced of the whole "bad karma" theory. It wouldn't make much sense to come up with a story like that in the first place. There's no connection whatsoever, right? Yet I don't believe it's to make him give up on Tsukushi, either. It's more like: He's my buddy, I've hurt him in the past and I really hope there isn't anything between the two of you so it won't end in hurting anyone again. Thus it shows his concern about his relation to Rui as much as his feelings for Tsukushi.
I still have disagree about the karma theory not having any connection but I think your theory also makes a lot of sense since in this drama they've emphasized Doumyoji's value of his friendship with Rui quite a bit. Actually, I think both theories could work simultaneously. Doumyoji doesn't want the people he cares about to get hurt but at the same time, he doesn't want to lose Makino.

unkei wrote:anyone notice how tall doumyouji was in the rain scene, and how the camera frame didn't show their shoes? xD i bet they made jun stand on something to make him seem taller~
Lol. I think Jun's is just that taller than Inoue Mao.

slippyepic: That is awesome. You are awesome. :D

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Post by makino_sanbr » Nov 17th, '05, 03:41

Slippyepic I'm your fan \o/
I agree with everything that you said. And i can't put this in better words..
but i would like to share some thoughts that i have when i was reading your post....
slippyepic wrote: The HYD J-drama can't realistically deliver that in its time span, and so instead we get basically a Donmyoji character study as seen through Makino's eyes. That's, to me, the bravest adaptation they could do, because there isn't really a convenient end point in the story arc to complete this study. To accomplish such a rounded picture, you must run a bunch of HYD story arcs in parallel from the get-go to give us a complete Domyoji, while risking a jumbled narrative. And you must have an actor who show us all facets but truly of the same soul.
Yep..I totally agree...I never though this way..but its how is... They show was different views...
But you know.. even with this the are some scenes that if we read the manga you see line to line exactly the same in J-Drama...
They do this very well.. is good adaption... really good.
Because this i don't think that was a drama to fill some place.. like i read sometime ago..
Jun understands exactly what he wants to show us.
Yep. He is really god at this isn'`t he? I already see Jun in my mind when i think in Tsukasa :blink
Imagine having that much power and still having a heart of a child who's been spoiled yet starved.
Ohhhhh OMG... this is Tsukasa Doumyoji.... i could not put that in better words... :wub:

The Domyoji we see in the manga's long view, becomes a concentrate experience with THIS HYD. Can this show follow through?
I hope that they could... because is so good until now.. :roll
But I am watching the live-action version of Mars, which has people who played the Makino and Rui, and THAT's bloody great. I understand that their acting chops significantly picked up between MG and Mars..
Yep. Mars is really good. Another good shoujo. And the Taiwan Drama are really good.. really really good.. i liked very much. And even my friends that are not used to Asian Drama loved.
HYD is the "crack cocaine" of shoujo.
Heheh good definition... XD

It has one of the finest screwball romantic pairings I've ever seen or read.

The characters grow up, sure, but especially the male leads remain ever true to themselves,

and Makino is ever the fightingest of shoujo heroines.

And especially key to these people, which is kinda a unique wrinkle in shoujo lit,
is both the male and female preference to express their emotions through outrageous action than words.

Meaning, they fight against and with each other into love, which in a screwball world, is closer to reality than the typical girl-save-bad-boy storyline.

Just watching them fight and misunderstand and redeem each other, just like a classic 1940/1950s Hollywood comedy.
Yep again. is all this.. and because of that.. HYD is is my favorite history ever...

This can't be conveyed properly in the HYD J-drama, because there isn't enough time.
This is sad... :cry: could be enough time... >_<
the J-drama wants us to study Domyoji, to really know him. Maybe to redeem him.
Yep.. again..again..
that happened with me.. i was asking myself.. What is so great about Doumyoji?
When I was reading again the manga..
And I fall in love again ( and more) for this character...
HYD kinda has two sides as a romance. You have the highly entertaining, classic screwball matchup with the cliques, the outrageous hair, and the comedy of fists. But you also have a depiction of truly obsessive, hungry love veering on smothering, destructive love. Ultimately, you realize that the source of her joy had never stopped being the source of her suffering too. Without the one, there couldn't have been the other. Without really understanding the connection, it can't work

the HYD J-drama ... to giving us a Domyoji who can understand and emphasize with Makino their bittersweet irony. Because the show has given us a Domyoji that, for all practical purposes, needs a Makino more than he likes this Makino. He is a child, nobody tells him no. But her.
....
.
really great conclusion... really.. i liked very much.. I fell the same...
The HYD anime ...

First off, it has hands down one of the most romantic, lilting/stormy scores ever written for an anime...

Secondly, the anime had really unique art direction, where the backgrounds would morph in color and detail depending on the mood of the moment....
...And, so, the anime distinguishes itself from the live-action adaptation (and even the manga) in giving us an expressive spectacle of Makino's vida loca. It is our awareness of her delicious but tart predicament that we relish.
.
I agree with you about HYD anime, i just don't like the end...
for me they could bring something better...

Which is to say, there's so many ways to adapt this pliable storyline and come up with a definitive interpretation. And they're all worth visiting. :)

Yep.Yep.Yep.
And again i think that you are right...

And is so good talk about HYD...
This thread is very interesting because..
we are not trying to get solution ( because don't have problems...)
But to talk about this series that move our hearts...

you post make my day... i really liked.
^__^[/spoiler]

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Post by Kathleen » Nov 18th, '05, 01:23

Unkei: I posted this in the other section already but just so you won't miss it: http://z18.zupload.com/download.php?fil ... epath=3796
When I saw this I was like.... O---M---G---...!!! What on earth is this? He had fine teeth in Gokusen, hadn't he?That's, his teeth looked pretty fine to me in ep 7. Does that mean he had his teeth fixed somewhere between ep 1 and 7? I really tried to find a scene where you see his teeth in the first few episodes but that guy never laughs or smiles, so nada. This is kind of creepy actually. Just like watching Sakurako's old year book. Or finding out your prince in truth is a frog. Or the beast isn't a bewitched hot guy but vice versa. (...) Anyways, you got my point, didn't you? It seems SO unreal to see Jun with those teeth. Good he had that job on them. Really good... Some good thing I noticed about this interview is he seemed kind of shy back then which I find very cute actually. He's like a vague doubleganger of the guy that now plays Doumyouji. Not only his looks have changed a lot.
shiruchan wrote:I wish Santa could give me Doumyoji too, but looking like Jun. I don´t find Shun so good-looking at all.
I think Jun looks really cute. Like I'd want my (future) son to look like. But as a lover... Hmm... :scratch: I cannot really think of him as a man... yet. But then again, he is younger after all. Even if it's just a year. However, I was never all that thrilled about Shun, either. But ever since I started watching Densha Otoko I'm like :w00t:
Shun looks so... SO manly in this. Plus he's got that special something that gives me goosebumps. I like the rather reserved type anyway. Reserved not as in terms of being desinterested in everything but more like not caring too much about what others think about one and only living for oneself. Jun, no offence, seems to enjoy making a big show which doesn't really meet my personal taste.
renko wrote:I still have disagree about the karma theory not having any connection
But with all the possibilities of picturing something like that, why should they stick to an idea of the manga that screams for making us see Doumyouji actually has his times when he's feeling guilty? Why bothering with a story that's only (original) purpose was to disarm him for once? If the karma theory was right then where's the difference between the usual selfish and spoiled Doumyouji and the one that reflects on the apple story? (Too many questions.)

slippyepic: Gosh, your post is really good! Too good, almost. I don't have the time to respond to it although I really want to. Just some random thoughts:
slippyepic wrote:HYD kinda has two sides as a romance. You have the highly entertaining, classic screwball matchup with the cliques, the outrageous hair, and the comedy of fists. But you also have a depiction of truly obsessive, hungry love veering on smothering, destructive love. Ultimately, you realize that the source of her joy had never stopped being the source of her suffering too. Without the one, there couldn't have been the other.
[...]
Because the show has given us a Domyoji that, for all practical purposes, needs a Makino more than he likes this Makino. He is a child, nobody tells him no. But her.
This is exactly my point and the one thing I'm mostly worried about. It's not like I have a problem with some changes they made so that the story will work out as close a margin as possible - it's more about some basics that make the story for what it is. One of those basics is Doumyouji's unconditional love for the one person that ever managed to make him want to become a better person. It's not like the original Tsukushi is just some girl that took heart to answer him back once. As there's only little scope they probably won't go too deep into Doumyouji's past which is why we get everything spelled out, like having him at the verge of tears when saying good-bye to Rui for instance. Tsukushi in the manga and anime is a girl that, once she broke out of her reserve, never hesitates to speak up to him. She treats him like a person, not like a Doumyouji - when he's irritating she shouts as him, when he's being nice he gets to see her smile (or more likely wide-eyed ^^). As he's always been surrounded by people who looked up to him only because of his name and even having business men and models trying anything to get near him for ulteriour motives (in one word: money) he has never trusted anyone no matter how friendly. With Tsukushi always fighting back but at the same time actually being friendly now and then he has finally found someone who's authentic enough to have faith in, and occasionally sweet and cute enough to love. I'm not particularly seeing the 'kick in the face' as some key moment that makes him madly fall for her as she resembles his sister. It's more like in this right moment he realizes there's actually someone aside from his sister who is honest and whom he can't intimidate as easily. This is kind of going off topic, but I guess you have already heard of so-called "Borderliners". Generally speaking, borderliners tend to carry anything to extremes. Sometimes it's out of fear, sometimes it's because of shakiness in a relation or something, in some cases it's simply out of boredom. Doumyouji who also shows this pattern (and I'm not saying he is a borderliner!), has always been used to meeting people who would kiss his feet for various motives which seems to result in trying to do anything in order to keep people away from himself. Although the Doumyouji from the manga and anime might be as lonely as the one from the drama (I'd even go as far as to say he "yearns for love" as the drama Doumyouji does), there's way more required for him to fall in love as deeply as he originally does. Having Makino doing practicuarly nothing in the drama, yet seeing Doumyouji head over heels for her is something I'm seriously having my problems with.
And once again, I'm not saying anything like he's a borderliner or something. As I'm informed almost everone of us has some borderline traits sometimes. It's mostly when we don't know how to deal with a new situation and first need to find out how far we can go. As for Doumyouji, my guess is he subconciously tries to find a person that is worth to be loved. Or other way around: He wants to get rid of everyone who's not.

Also very interesting: "Wimps, Whiners, Weenies - Men in Movies Today" by Don Feder.
I'm actually not too fond of the guy but since I had to do a report on his article there was no chance to avoid it. ^^ I found one particular paragraph quite amusing:

If women must be men, what's left for men to be? In the real world, a man finds the ultimate expression of his identity in his relationship with a woman. A man (who is usually stronger and more able to endure physical hardship) is at his best when providing for, protecting, comforting, and loving a woman. If movie women are themselves fearless and indomitable, a strong man provides no contrast. All that's left for male characters is to wallow in their emotions, agonize over their fate, play the fool, and show their helplessness.

First thought that popped up in my mind was: Dangit, he's SO right, and yet doesn't Doumyouji seem pathetic in the least! This may be what makes him and the whole Hanadan romance so special: We have a REALLY strong heroine but at the same time a guy that always stands his ground, always suffers when not being with her but never cries or whines.
I think such a scenario can only build up with the required ressources which the drama doesn't bring. The drama does tell a good story but it's not really Hana yori Dango whereas the anime at least placed a similar feeling to its pattern, eventhough there are some major differences.

(My apologies if much of what I wrote doesn't make sense. It's late and I had a very long day. Probably be back tomorrow and edit. =_=)

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 18th, '05, 01:49

I guess part of it depends on whether you see Jun's Domyoji as an Aries kind of guy or a Scorpio kind of guy.

If the latter, then I would argue the J-drama's interpretation of Domyoji has been absolutely stunning. If the former, then the argument goes that it's inevitably going to turn into a "good girl corrects bad boy" storyline, which really isn't what HYD made special.

I tend to see the HYD love affair, though, as a projection of Makino's own loneliness. Rui is a creation of her mind. And her Domyoji relationship is really a dialogue of her complex relationship with her society. That is, the more we know how miserable she has been at school, the better we understand her feelings toward Domyoji. And, in this drama, the better we understand Domyoji, the clearer we understand how cruel Makino's Alice-in-Wonderland world is.

From my point of view, the key thing was the director's choice in turning HYD into a satirical, slightly gothic story on class and loneliness. Makino doesn't belong in this world, and I mean that this world may quite possibly be insane. But Domyoji is the human manifestation of this world, its strange rules, its deceptive notions of charity, and ultimately its basic disconnect with common sense and decency.

HYD J-drama can end up basically three ways. Either, Makino is subsumed into this world, and that she "corrects" Domyoji. Or, that Makino is nearly destroyed by this world, and that Domyoji must break from it.

Or, choice C), Domyoji breaks, and Makino goes "I told you Domyoji. I told you so."

Naturally, I want C.

I'll follow up with more later . . .

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Post by moonlit » Nov 18th, '05, 02:17

slippyepic wrote:I guess part of it depends on whether you see Jun's Domyoji as an Aries kind of guy or a Scorpio kind of guy.

If the latter, then I would argue the J-drama's interpretation of Domyoji has been absolutely stunning. If the former, then the argument goes that it's inevitably going to turn into a "good girl corrects bad boy" storyline, which really isn't what HYD made special.
.
I don't quite understand. How does seeing Doumyoji as an Aries or Scorpio guy affect the storyline? So you're saying if he's a Scorpio kind of guy, it doesn't take much for him to fall deeply in love even though as Kathleen says, there really isn't much reason he does (in the drama).

And in any case, I think Doumyoji was an Aquarius.

You must write a lot of academic papers, your writing reads like a research essay!

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Post by Kathleen » Nov 18th, '05, 02:17

slippyepic wrote: "good girl corrects bad boy" storyline, which really isn't what HYD made special.
I was saying that this is what makes the romance in Hanadan so special. And since the romance is a huge part of the story it's closely connected to the main purpose in my opinion.
I agree with you as for the beginning of the story when the main focus still lay on the bullying at school, but as we hardly get to read anything of it later on in the manga I think it can be regarded as something she has conquered.
Whereas I have no doubts whatsoever that Tsukushi is the main character and we get to learn the most about her inner thoughts and feelings, I'm still of the opinion the whole story wouldn't work out if it wasn't for Doumyouji. As the story continues we get to see her changing a lot, but this can only happen in connection with Doumyouji's changed attitudes, thus his development affects the course of the story.

Excuse me but what's that about Aries and Scorpio? :| As moonlit says he's Aquarius. Or is this some kind of metaphor I don't quite understand?

Edit:
slippyepic wrote: From my point of view, the key thing was the director's choice in turning HYD into a satirical, slightly gothic story on class and loneliness. Makino doesn't belong in this world, and I mean that this world may quite possibly be insane. But Domyoji is the human manifestation of this world, its strange rules, its deceptive notions of charity, and ultimately its basic disconnect with common sense and decency.
This reads like... Ahhh... I totally agree with moonlit. You're very skilled at writing and analyzing! I got goosebumps when I read this, seriously! Not a thing to get all excited about or anything, but anyway... :lol

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 18th, '05, 02:40

I don't quite understand. How does seeing Doumyoji as an Aries or Scorpio guy affect the storyline? So you're saying if he's a Scorpio kind of guy, it doesn't take much for him to fall deeply in love even though as Kathleen says, there really isn't much reason he does (in the drama).
I was being facetious. A mate and I have been yapping about astrology all day. ;) (Though, yes, in the manga, he is an Aquarius and Makino is a Capricorn. Which, BTW, is a popular match.)
This reads like... Ahhh... I totally agree with moonlit. You're very skilled at writing and analyzing! I got goosebumps when I read this, seriously! Not a thing to get all excited about or anything, but anyway...
Arigato. :) But, seriously, for various sites, I think I've written a few thousands words on what makes Hana Yori Dango so great as a romance. I like to call Hana Yori Dango, the "Rage of the Doumyoji" because, well I pretty much live for Doumyoji blowing his gasket, bringing the pain to his enemies. But I also admire, as you mentioned before, the way in which you have two willful, but inarticulate and inexperienced characters butting heads and commiserating with each other. It's a mad, mad world in which they live.

In the manga, he wants to win over Makino. In the anime, he wants to consume Makino. I'm guessing in the MG, he wants to buy/earn Makino. In the J-drama, it is still up in the air, what Makino means to Doumyoji. Except that, well, he's developed a terrible case of the conscience and it looks like Jun is starting to realize the horror of his actions. Instant karma, indeed.

We'll better read the intentions of the drama in the next episode. Director can't go back on that. But already I think this is a wonderful adaptation of her mad world. And I want Jun in a total Jesus Christ pose, casually damning the situation Makino is in, and paying for his sins. It would be lovely if we end up getting the "Passion of the Doumyoji", the agony and ecstasy of his ego feeding the problems Makino must overcome.

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Post by renko » Nov 18th, '05, 02:40

Kathleen wrote:But with all the possibilities of picturing something like that, why should they stick to an idea of the manga that screams for making us see Doumyouji actually has his times when he's feeling guilty? Why bothering with a story that's only (original) purpose was to disarm him for once? If the karma theory was right then where's the difference between the usual selfish and spoiled Doumyouji and the one that reflects on the apple story? (Too many questions.)
Nah, you're asking good questions. ^_^

I think the problem here is that 'karma' may not have been an appropriate word choice (due to some of its connotative meanings). The main point that I was trying to bring across was that in that scene, Doumyoji was not saying that he would be willing to give Makino up, but that he was voicing a fear. Whether it was a fear of losing Makino or that the people he cared about would potentially get hurt, I think both of those would work. I hope that was clear. :-)
Kathleen wrote:Tsukushi in the manga and anime is a girl that, once she broke out of her reserve, never hesitates to speak up to him. She treats him like a person, not like a Doumyouji - when he's irritating she shouts as him, when he's being nice he gets to see her smile (or more likely wide-eyed ^^). As he's always been surrounded by people who looked up to him only because of his name and even having business men and models trying anything to get near him for ulteriour motives (in one word: money) he has never trusted anyone no matter how friendly. With Tsukushi always fighting back but at the same time actually being friendly now and then he has finally found someone who's authentic enough to have faith in, and occasionally sweet and cute enough to love.
I couldn't agree more. The business and political world is corruptive and as that is the world Doumyoji had spent all his life in, it's no wonder he has trust issues. Having someone like Makino enter his life was no doubt a huge relief on his poor mind and heart as he had spent the last 17-18 years having no one to trust his heart to. It's human nature to want to interact with other individuals, to want to trust and to love. Without all of that, it's difficult to grow. Doumyoji was deprived of all of that, and it's hard to be a good person when you have no one to be good for, especially when you can't even do it for yourself.
Kathleen wrote:If women must be men, what's left for men to be? In the real world, a man finds the ultimate expression of his identity in his relationship with a woman. A man (who is usually stronger and more able to endure physical hardship) is at his best when providing for, protecting, comforting, and loving a woman. If movie women are themselves fearless and indomitable, a strong man provides no contrast. All that's left for male characters is to wallow in their emotions, agonize over their fate, play the fool, and show their helplessness.
Ooh, that is a very good quote. ^^ This is off-topic but I think people are forgetting something when they rant on about how women are suppressed and restricted, etc. : the men! I'm not saying that women are not suppressed and restricted but men have it hard too. Society expects so much from them. For them to be macho, strong, and on the top of everything. Society doesn't allow them to be vulnerable, weak, and emotional. If they ever feel it, they have to suppress it, beat it down and lock it away in a chest because if they reveal that that's is what they're feeling, society will brutally butcher them to pieces for not being "man" enough. In other words, society doesn't let men be human.

Okay, sorry, I'm ranting. ^^;;

And slippyepic: that was wonderful. XD!

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Post by pyre » Nov 18th, '05, 03:03

Does anyone know where I would be able to find the song that is heard in ep 1 where Rui saves Tsk from being assaulted by those 3 boys in the science lab?

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 18th, '05, 06:44

I think the song is called "Planetarium" by Otsuka Ai.
If women must be men, what's left for men to be? In the real world, a man finds the ultimate expression of his identity in his relationship with a woman. A man (who is usually stronger and more able to endure physical hardship) is at his best when providing for, protecting, comforting, and loving a woman. If movie women are themselves fearless and indomitable, a strong man provides no contrast. All that's left for male characters is to wallow in their emotions, agonize over their fate, play the fool, and show their helplessness.
Sigh. What immature, wrong-headed thinking. Of COURSE, Don Feder would say something so juvenile . . .
If women must be men, what's left for men to be? In the real world, a man finds the ultimate expression of his identity in his relationship with a woman.
True, and it's why many men, especially ones who haven't honestly disclosed themselves and compromised in a lengthy, mature relationship, still cling to the mythology of a perfect or idealized woman. For, though many men would like to say their ideal romance is an authentic, honest one, they still essentially project their egos upon the other person. They substitute passion for empathy, poetic foreplay for compassion, and cynicism for honesty. A woman can never be a human being with different opinions, different goals, and maybe a different view of the relationship. They have to be one with the man; they have to complete the man; they are relative to the man. Men knows "themselves" in a woman, they don't want the woman to change. They never really wanted to change.
All that's left for male characters is to wallow in their emotions, agonize over their fate, play the fool, and show their helplessness.
. . . and allow the woman to "domesticate." Which is an illusion many women cling to, the idea that they uniquely understand their man and that they're uniquely able to change or remake their man. Many women cannot understand why the relationship isn't more important to the man, without understanding that the man sees the relationship as a static constant, a reliable fall-back position, and that what the man is really seeking is more validation, more ways to project or express themselves through their female partner.

Instead of men using women as the mouthpiece for their ego identity, or women using men as their ultimate makeover project, we in our post-sexist world, should reinvest ourselves in recognizing and accepting our differences and working toward a more honest dialogue. If men should feel so "powerless" from empowered women, maybe they should stop competing with their women and actually accept their partner's strength and social status as a source of constructive criticism and reinvention. And likewise, women should let go of unrealistic expectations of emotional security with their men. HYD, our illustrious couple harbours no illusions of each other and they fight like cats and dogs. But their basic bond is tighter than a fist and their trust is deeper than the wildest pastures. If it's a nutty, fantastic relationship, it's still real.
If movie women are themselves fearless and indomitable, a strong man provides no contrast.
Wuthering Heights. Pride and Prejudice. Gone with the Wind. All About Eve. Key Largo. Titanic. Say Anything. English Patient. House of Flying Daggers. Really, all great screwball comedies, and that includes Hana Yori Dango, which refutes the romantic chauvinism Feder seems to criticize and yet espouse.

But, HYD nevertheless lingers in the comic, romantic imagination. Doumyoji will always be a scoundrel, and Makino will always be a weed. They play a sort of romantic football on the lawns of some privileged playground of the bored, and we the audience lap up the score. And nobody in the seats wants to tell this incorrigibly lovable duo that they're playing for the same team, because we enjoy his hooliganism and her gritty footwork. Such is the perfect screwball couple.

Kathleen, as I believe you're alluding to, the one key weakness is that there isn't enough games in this season. In giving us the Jun-ifcation of Dounymoji, the ultimate character study of his world and his dog-eat-dog heart, they've also made turn the wacky bloodsport of this drama into an introverted "his and her circumstances" tell-all. We simply don't see enough Doumyoji and Makino. And, we wonder whether they're falling in love by themselves.

The romantic triangle dissolves into a Catholic penance. But, we can already see that in Donmyoji's first act of cruelty, he is a man unrelieved of his evil. And that is what gives him the Byronic dimension which veers farthest from the HYD ethos. In all other versions of the story, Donmyoji seeks to rule the world (he naturally enjoys power) in order to make Makino his. In this drama, without realizing yet, he really seeks to transcend it, because he is dependent on it. Like all people with extreme compulsions, this Donymoji is not seeking validation or pleasure in the act but release from an itch he can't scratch. He is simply seeking release without a moral compass. His manner is fey; when he attacks somebody, it's as if he's trying to wipe off a blemish. His anger is full of jealousy; he seethes with intensely imagined attachment. What he surprises isn't a kingdom with his queen, but a world completely unlike the one is. One that is peaceful. One that is whole. A perfect harmony, which is the most further thing from his control, and one he craves like a child/monster for the precious. Why is the jigsaw scene so sad? Because this is his only imitation of love.

This drama's Doumyoji is man of unrelieved cruelty who becomes a man of unrelieved conscience. The manga's Dounmyoji was never so conflicted, so genuinely repulsed, by Makino. In the manga, for a spoiled prince like him, he was never so terrified of his loneliness made light by her existence. But from episode 1, he seems a man already caved in by subconscious pressure, by a murky film that he cannot wipe clean from his very atmosphere. In other words, I truly believe the manga Dounmyoji, weird and boorish, was still happy before he met her. He didn't know any better. In this drama, I know nothing made him happy. Here, he didn't know how to make it better.
He tries to debase Makino by aggressing her sexuality through his minions. But instead, Makino ascends to a faith through her white knight Rui.
He tries to break Makino's spirit by destroying her lunch, not unlike the manga because he wanted to exert his status over her, but because in his nihlism, he wanted to humiliate familial love, which he does not have. But Makino fights back.
He tries to corrupt Makino's integrity by buying her lavish clothes and essentially assigning her as a commodity within this world. But Makino proudly asserts her difference from his world, her alienness or otherness from him and his world. For the first time, Donmyoj is woken up to the possibility of escape, of true difference.
He makes her kiss his shoe, likely believing she would never do such a humiliating thing for the sake of friends. In Donmyoji's world, there are no true friendships (well, except, for HIS crew) but from his benovolence and status, and perhaps no friendships (not even his with Rui) which could be qualified against hardship. Donmyoji wants so badly to relieve himself of this disturbing suspicion that bonds can be deeper than money. Makino shows him true faith.
Even when Doumyoji "declares" Makino his girlfriend of some degree and is apparently celebrating his, again, "benevolent" truce over their war . . . he is still deeply disturbed that this superficial peace (and "reward" for Makino's efforts) and his society's apparent recognition of their "coupling" doesn't reflect Makino's heart. Or, even, the weight of the damage he's leveled at her and other people. She still disturbs him. She is still alien to his way of life. It isn't yet love, but a new shadow. He can still pump his fist for his people and they will still exalt his ascendancy in his private kingdom, but he is still yet alone. She doesn't love him. Moreover, he doesn't know how a woman loves a man.
Thus, by the dearth of early Makino-Donmyoji appearances in the J-drama, I would argue that, though more or less the stages of the manga are being followed in proper succession, the emotional chronology is still way behind the manga. It'll be especially interesting how the next episode plays, because its consequences has to mean differently to Makino and Donmyoji than it did in the manga. Makino isn't searching for validation from Dounmyoji. Dounmyoji doesn't quite realize the moral depths of his shadow, let alone his heart.

So, in the above regard, I can totally see your view point, Kathleen, about this drama's really fundamental difference with the manga. We have already kept tally of the emotional points won at each point in the original storyline; we know what each player should feel at every stopping point. And we recognize this adaptation, in changing lanes, hasn't really let us enjoy the basic appeal of the main scenery. But, in this version, we see the entire terrain from the get-go, the reasons for his stop at her heart, the road blocks between, and above all, how truly difficult the road will be. We've seen it all at once; now we hope they will stop to enjoy what a glorious journey they do take.

For me, I find this interpretation, this intepretation of Donmyoji and of Makino's survival, so satisfying and truly valid . . .
If the drama is true to the manga's ultimate path, we will know that Donmyoji will go to hell and back for Makino. But if the drama is indeed true, Donmyoji will someday understand that this very hell that he brings to Makino's bubble. Only when his passionate love arrive at compassionate love. He can't help his circumstance or his social/blood money; he can only break from it, but maybe break himself in the process. I feel this will be a pervasive dramatic dilemna of this drama's romance.
The J-drama's made us wait long enough. We've enjoyed the show's tour of their circumstances; from now on, the focus should be about those two. In the same scene, through the same obstacles, and hopefully to the same midpoint ending of the manga.

BTW, I just want to reiterate that I don't take HYD as seriously (or, erm, academically) as it seems here. This show is just bloody funny and well-made to me. But this story does mean a lot to me, and for me, it takes a lot of words to put down what this story makes me feel, and what a burnished gem this particular adaptation turned out to be. I just wanted to honour their work.

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Post by x_XJules » Nov 18th, '05, 07:10

i bought the first two books of the manga series today! I'm so excited! watching the series and reading it at the sametime is actually a pretty awesome experience. i love this story so much! :P

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 18th, '05, 07:13

I think the story for next episode is in Volume 4 of the manga. Boy is she e-v-i-l. And hot. :D

BTW, anybody think HYD is going to break the 21 rating tomorrow? Next episode SURE is important!

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Post by cuteangelika » Nov 18th, '05, 17:12

Gosh.. I cant believe im still up, doing nothing but browsing and clicking the refresh button for the past few hours....just to check if episode 5 is out.. and I had only 3 hours sleep last night! Hanadan rocks!

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Post by angelic_poring » Nov 18th, '05, 17:28

hmm.. i finished reading the manga a while ago.. and i'm feeling so sad cuz of the ending.. i prob shouldn't be.. but.. >_<;;; i'm feeling a bit upset even..

hmm.. ppl have been saying how jun played a *superb* role as doumyouji.. i see the reason.. but now that i think of it, i don't think i see daomingsi in mg or jun in the jap hyd as doumyouji. i don't think anyone can ever effectively imitate his character, cuz doumyouji is doumyouji^_^ he's that unique

... and... after skimming through quite a few of the posts... why do i get the feelign that alotta people (i'm not saying all) like hyd cuz they're infatuated with jun and ogure shun..? rather than actually being critical and considering if they fit the role they play, etc. ._________.;;;

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gushing over Jun or Doumyoji

Post by leia26252477 » Nov 18th, '05, 17:41

yes, whenever I speak about Hana Yori Dango or any drama, I try to emphasize the character, simply just by saying his or her character's name, not his or her actual name. i want to show that i'm genuinely interested in the show. and i respect the actor/actress a lot for their work in portraying the character.

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Post by slippyepic » Nov 18th, '05, 19:24

why do i get the feelign that alotta people (i'm not saying all) like hyd cuz they're infatuated with jun and ogure shun..?
I think much of the show's popularity lies in girls lapping it up for their favorite idol actors. That in itself is by design of most teen/young Asian dramas, which are after all written for girls who'll buy the album and the posters and the teen mags. Because I'm a straight guy who's rather disturbed by Jun AND Shun's skin, I'm more impressed by their acting as well as the direction and editing of the show. The most impressive things to me has been the editing and the comic timing of the actors/actresses. It's really difficult to make manga slapstick that funny without good actors.

So far, I think the most "authentic" manga character in the story is Donmyoji's mom. I mean, dang, that woman is creepy.

So, let's rate the authenticity to the manga by character . . .

Makino. 7/10.

The director hit the ball out of the ballpark by casting an actress who could approximate the incredulous and fighting spirit that Makino is well known for, as well as ground the wacky circumstances from the perspective of a regular girl. She has, uhm, the eye of the tiger. ;)

BUT . . . because of the way they've written out most of the manga's school situations, we don't get to see Makino really take on the whole school. So, this Makino seems more passive, even weaker and certainly less in-your-face, than the manga Makino. She's too kind.

Dounmyoji. 5/10

I love this interpretation of Dounmyoji. I think, the spirit of his essence is here. I think, in some ways, this Dounymoji is a much more interesting character with stronger romantic upside (given the short time frame) than the manga Dounmyoji. And fans of Gokusen knows that Jun really knows how to be dumb funny while playing tough guys.

BUT, then again, I like 80s music and I like Prince. And when Jun struts around with his jerri curls and throws punches like a girl, I know that this is what it sounds like when doves cry. ;)

Rui. 2/10

I think this Rui is great for the story, but weirdly, his situations with Makino have been a little funnier than her scenes with Dounymoji. Well, that ain't right. And that ain't Rui. But I think, as basically the 3rd wheel in the triangle, it works.

Shizuka. 1/10

Not Shizuka. And Shizuka/Rui was probably my favorite couple early on.

Sakurako. 6/10

She evil. And hot. Right on! :D

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Post by angelic_poring » Nov 18th, '05, 19:39

hm... i wonder if ep 5 is available in any other website.. like clubbox, cuz last time i downloaded ep 4 from there and it wuz alot faster...

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