[Discussion] Joou no Kyoushitsu

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

How would you rate Joou no Kyoushitsu?

Life-Altering (5)
70
57%
See it (4)
34
28%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
7
6%
Probably shouldn't miss it (3)
7
6%
Only if you have time (2)
2
2%
STAY AWAY (1)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 122

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xiaryx
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[Discussion] Joou no Kyoushitsu

Post by xiaryx » Sep 4th, '05, 18:32

How do you like Joou no Kyoushitsu? It is my second favorite from summer 2005 season, right after Slow Dance. I find it particularly interesting in how the activities of this elementary school classroom reflect the social structures in Japan/U.S. Maya Akutsu-sensei is also the best sensei in Jdorama along with Kinpachi sensei. Despite the superficial dictorial attitude she has toward her students, I cannot help to think she is trying teach them a larger lesson in life. Highly recommended.
Last edited by xiaryx on Sep 4th, '05, 21:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 20:41

I love this drama, right after Densha Otoko and Slow Dance. I kind of feel that this drama is somewhat underrated since many people seems to flock to the other dramas (not that I don't do it either), but still, this drama should not be missed. :thumright: :thumright: <-- 2 thumbs up
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 20:47

what is this series about? some spoil content onegai!!!

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 20:53

Check out the wiki on the drama --> Joou no Kyoushitsu
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 20:54

hmmm thanks.. i'll probably watch the 1st ep and see for myself...

[edit] btw, can someone please seed ep 1 for me? i'm downloading at 0% =(
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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 20:57

I know there's one episode that's available here on D-Addicts that's subbed in English. You may want to download that version first just to see if you like it.
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 20:59

i wanted the RAW one but o well... i'll just d/l the other one then. Thanks!

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 21:01

Actually, all of the episodes are RAW and you should be able to get it. I meant to say that there are two versions of the first episode, one RAW and one English subbed.

I didn't think you wanted the RAW since the majority of people who downloaded this drama wanted the English subbed. Gomen :-(
Last edited by yt_toshi on Sep 4th, '05, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 21:02

yeah but i'm downloading at 0 kb/s on the RAW

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 21:03

I seed it for you, but my upload speed is not great, if you don't mind.
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 21:07

the raw one right? lol
i don't mind as long as i can d/l it.

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 21:09

[DS]DragonSlayerz wrote:the raw one right? lol
i don't mind as long as i can d/l it.
Definitely the RAW one. I have all the RAWs up to the current episode.
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Post by [DS]DragonSlayerz » Sep 4th, '05, 21:10

k thanks.
btw, are there any jdrama that is as good as Densha Otoko? I got addicted to jdrama after watching that lol.
I already have Gokusen but then I kinda got bored of that one.

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Post by xiaryx » Sep 4th, '05, 21:13

[DS]DragonSlayerz wrote:k thanks.
btw, are there any jdrama that is as good as Densha Otoko? I got addicted to jdrama after watching that lol.
I already have Gokusen but then I kinda got bored of that one.
Sorry DragonSlayerz, unlike kdrama, all jdoramas are unique and no two are alike :P j/k. But seriously, Densha is pretty unique. what attracted you the most? the comedy? the otaku? Hermes?

:offtopic: haha

back to Joou no Kyoushitsu. Kinpachi sensei is the closest come to mind.
Last edited by xiaryx on Sep 4th, '05, 21:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by yt_toshi » Sep 4th, '05, 21:13

Not that I know of right now, but I agree that Gokusen was boring after a couple of episode since it was pretty much the same conclusion almost every single time I watched it.
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Post by SnWa » Sep 5th, '05, 04:18

Thanks for creating the discussion thread xiaryx.

The review in the wiki for Joou no Kyoushitsu plus some of the torrent comments were intriguing enough to get me to download this series even without subtitles. There is definitely a mystery behind Akutsu-sensei. Combined with that extraordinarily incongruous performance in the end credits, I can't help but wonder what fashioned and motivated the extreme, stern exterior.

Certainly, many of the teacher's actions seem extreme, particularly from the perspective of 6th-graders, but were any of the actions backed by mean-spirited intent? Or were they farsighted attempts at setting up challenges for the children to overcome? My lack of facility with the language makes it difficult for me to say, but it certainly does seem as if the students are learning and growing as the episodes progress. Is this because of or in spite of the teacher?

In any case, the show does an excellent job of presenting a 6th-grader's perspective, and the child actors give cute but professional performances.

If you haven't seen this show yet, give the English-sub of the 1st episode a try. I suspect it will intrigue you enough to download the unsubbed episodes.

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Post by Ruroshin » Sep 5th, '05, 04:38

This is one of the few dramas I'm watching raw even though I don't understand a lot of it, I get the general gist of it and thats interesting enough for me :)

Btw I just finished watching 24hrs Emergency Ward 3 the other week and the girl playing Shindoi (what is her name?) is in it too. Pretty active little girl.

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Post by xiaryx » Sep 5th, '05, 15:26

Ruroshin wrote: Btw I just finished watching 24hrs Emergency Ward 3 the other week and the girl playing Shindoi (what is her name?) is in it too. Pretty active little girl.
kawaii ne? hehe. I think she gets more publicity out of this show than the main character. One of the girls from Engine is also in it. Pretty cute too.

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Post by Old Ant » Sep 5th, '05, 20:56

I've seen only two episodes, and I'm hooked. The girl who plays the little girl main character overplays the wide-eyed shock a little too much...but she's twelve. I doubt anybody else could do any better. She does very well in her other scenes.

I also like how real life mirrors the show. I read that people have protested the show based on their dislike of the title character's extreme measures. And the protests have had the effect that the sponsors don't want their company's names listed at the beginning and end of the show as sponsors. The show's getting great ratings, and the sponsors are still paying for their commercials to be shown during it, but they don't want their names listed. Isn't hypocrisy fun? :mrgreen:

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Post by usagiko » Sep 11th, '05, 06:29

I love this show - I was able to catch it on TV last night. Can someone put these up on clubbox? BT hates me. :( I will give you cookies or something.

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Post by darkflame21 » Sep 21st, '05, 05:06

ITs last episode beat everything in TV raiting for last episodes except densha otoko, wich still hasnt aired and still does have a chance to beat it being the only drama still on from this season, although im pretty sure there is an interesting drama special or movie on during the same time slot.

Well back to Jouou, it got 25.4% rating for the last episode and its average was the higest for the entire season by a narrow margin from the other dramas as well. Densha otoko and Slow dance were nice dramas but in the end they are jsut typical melodramatic jdrama, densha otoko is pretty unique but in the end the plot is the same as everyhing else; while Jouou no Kyoushitsu is somethin thatyou dont see very oftne. It's also not only there to entertain but its there to educate students and parents about how Japanese schools are run and what could be considered some flaws in the system that everyone is so used to. Im so temoted to buy the series in a few months when it comes out but I'll prolly jsut rent the dvd's and copy them to get dvd quality cppies and save myself some money. :)
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Post by kfan » Sep 21st, '05, 05:21

err... may i know the ending? i followed thru except the last episode and just want to know how it ends...
:party:

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Post by darkflame21 » Sep 21st, '05, 05:31

I'll PM ya if ya really wanna know. :)
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Post by chiisana_tantei » Sep 21st, '05, 07:17

darkflame21 wrote: Well back to Jouou, it got 25.4% rating for the last episode and its average was the higest for the entire season by a narrow margin from the other dramas as well.
I was quite surprise myself when I saw the last episode rating...
But I think it deserves it.. :D

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Post by 20centuryboy » Sep 21st, '05, 07:40

Ruroshin wrote:This is one of the few dramas I'm watching raw even though I don't understand a lot of it, I get the general gist of it and thats interesting enough for me :)

Btw I just finished watching 24hrs Emergency Ward 3 the other week and the girl playing Shindoi (what is her name?) is in it too. Pretty active little girl.
I wanted to see this dorama but the lack of subtitles made me give up...

This summer, there really was a craze for Densha otoko that made me being a little tired with it in the end... ( that and the fact that every episods repet the same structure "at the end of the episod densha is in big toubles with hermes wich is fixed at the begining of the new episod etc...").

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Post by Old Ant » Sep 21st, '05, 19:22

I loved the show right up to the end of episode 10. But I have to say that I felt let down by the last episode. They had done such a good job of making poor, mediocre Kazumi into basically a classroom King Arthur (the leader with a conscience) that what they did with it...

Oh, well. The other 10 episodes were well worth watching.

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Post by maneki_neko » Nov 13th, '05, 17:01

This is one the best dramas I've ever seen - possibly because it's different. You can't predict what's going to happen - what happens at the beginning of the episode is dramatically different from what happens at the end. Despite having kids, like someone else said earlier, it's a very adult drama and tells a lot about society (not just Japanese).

I'm looking forward to the rest of the subs for this series. If I get desperate enough, I'll just finish downloading the series raw.

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Post by milleu87 » Jan 21st, '06, 08:23

do you any clubbox that might have this series? i try the findclubbox.com but i can't find anything. i try a few clubbox i usually dl from but it's not there.thanks in advance

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Post by thumpr » Jan 24th, '06, 13:58

Just curious... there are raw versions of episode 9, 10 and 11 available as torrents... Are there soft English subs available anywhere for these episodes?

I noticed that Kryptolus has only done until episode 08 for the hard subs and because I've only just stumbled across this drama (and its discussion thread) I'm not entirely sure whether kryptolus is going to hard sub the rest of the episodes or whether there's soft subs available for the remaining episodes.

Can anyone shed some light on the topic? :D

Thanks everyone!

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Post by Lowest » Jan 24th, '06, 22:05

thumpr wrote:Just curious... there are raw versions of episode 9, 10 and 11 available as torrents... Are there soft English subs available anywhere for these episodes?

I noticed that Kryptolus has only done until episode 08 for the hard subs and because I've only just stumbled across this drama (and its discussion thread) I'm not entirely sure whether kryptolus is going to hard sub the rest of the episodes or whether there's soft subs available for the remaining episodes.

Can anyone shed some light on the topic? :D

Thanks everyone!
As far as I know he's doing the whole series, and there are no soft subs, and I don't think there are any plans for softsubs there is a thread in the subtitles forum called INDEX LIST of All Subtitle Threads (Search In Here) which would help you out when looking for softsubs for series. :)

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Post by rahula » Jan 24th, '06, 22:19

man.. that ending thing.... when I saw it, I just couldn't believe for the first time.. I was sooo into a heavy atmosphere with the Maya-sensei that when I saw her smoothly jumping and all dancing I got dizzly shocked o.O

makinosan!!! Tu és brasileira? que massa... pvt me ^___^

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Post by thumpr » Jan 25th, '06, 03:16

Lowest wrote:
thumpr wrote:Just curious... there are raw versions of episode 9, 10 and 11 available as torrents... Are there soft English subs available anywhere for these episodes?

I noticed that Kryptolus has only done until episode 08 for the hard subs and because I've only just stumbled across this drama (and its discussion thread) I'm not entirely sure whether kryptolus is going to hard sub the rest of the episodes or whether there's soft subs available for the remaining episodes.

Can anyone shed some light on the topic? :D

Thanks everyone!
As far as I know he's doing the whole series, and there are no soft subs, and I don't think there are any plans for softsubs there is a thread in the subtitles forum called INDEX LIST of All Subtitle Threads (Search In Here) which would help you out when looking for softsubs for series. :)
No problem... I don't mind either way.... hard or soft subs... I just wanted to know whether or not I was the only one anticipating another episode release from kryptolus. I didn't want to be the only person 'out of the loop' and be waiting for something that was never going to appear heh :D

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Post by thumpr » Jan 30th, '06, 07:07

oh man, can't wait for episode 9 from kryptolus!

:D

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Post by Lowest » Feb 15th, '06, 23:49

Anyone who enjoyed last year's popular school drama "Jo no Kyoshitsu" (Queen's Classroom) on NTV will want to catch a special coming up next month. Over two nights (March 18-19), the special will reveal how the main character, "demon" teacher Akutsu Maya (played by former Takarazuka star Amami Yuki, 38), developed her strict and cynical style. The drama and the teacher who almost terrorized her pupils became a talking point and achieved high audience ratings when it aired between July and September. The final episode pulled in a rating of 25.3% and the show's official website had almost 12 million hits over two days. The March special is at least in part a result of tens of thousands of posts on the website's BBS from fans wanting to know more about the story and its background. [JapanZone]

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Post by Furion » Feb 16th, '06, 01:15

WOw, thanks for the info, 2 million hits in 2 days? wha... this special is definitely something to look forward to, but I'm not even done with the show yet, I'm only up to ep5 but I can say that I love the show so much, Kazumi is just so darn adorable, and she's a very good actress too... 8)

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Post by acidkung » Feb 16th, '06, 04:02

it's gonna be a special .. YEAH!!

this dorama is great. i love the characters and the plot

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Post by roobix » Feb 28th, '06, 06:45

This is a great drama. it was highly refreshing for me.

It was hard for me to get through the first few episodes because i was so angry!

A sign of a good drama is one that can make you feel so much for it.

Definitely up there on my list. :cry:

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Post by SnWa » Mar 18th, '06, 03:40

I can't believe no one has commented on the special yet.

I just watched part 1 with my limited language knowledge and the background story on Maya sensei seems to be even more fleshed out than I expected. Highly anticipating the concluding part tomorrow.

A definite must watch!

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Post by Nujabes » Mar 19th, '06, 22:05

SnWa wrote:I can't believe no one has commented on the special yet.

I just watched part 1 with my limited language knowledge and the background story on Maya sensei seems to be even more fleshed out than I expected. Highly anticipating the concluding part tomorrow.

A definite must watch!
I just watched both specials. Her conversion to the current way she is totally made me think of darth vader... epecially at the end of the 2nd special.

too bad this series had to end... because i wanted more!

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Post by SnWa » Mar 20th, '06, 02:14

Nujabes wrote:Her conversion to the current way she is totally made me think of darth vader... epecially at the end of the 2nd special.
So I wasn't the only one reminded of the Darth Vader conversion. Except I think this one was a lot more believable :lol

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Post by nibler » Mar 27th, '06, 04:55

i also already download the special.....
but i'm so sad since its has no subtitle...
i wonder if anyone will make one....
although somebody already briefing the summeries....
but its could be perfect if there's a subtitle.....

and for the series...
i'm on eps 10 now...
one more to go...
although eps 11 RAW already release....
but i'm waiting for [kryptolus] ....
this drama is so addicted.....
my best drama for this year....

p/s: hope [kryptolus] will sub the special too....

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Post by thumpr » Mar 30th, '06, 05:35

kryptolus! I can't wait for you to sub episode 11!

It might not mean much but I'm willing to help in any way possible with the process... not sure what I can help with but I'm willing to do anything to get the final subbed :D

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Post by Prince of Moles » Mar 30th, '06, 06:29

Hehe, my friend keeps calling Maya the Sith. And that she used the Jedi/Sith mind trick when she convinced all the parents.

I missed this show when it first came up on D-Addicts, but after hearing about the show and in anticipation of the special, I recently downloaded it. My god I had no idea that I would watch all the episodes in rapid succession, the specials, and then convince a friend to watch it as well!

It really is a brutal show in that all the ugly facts are told, but I think at the same time, if you did have this kind of education, you really will reflect more on life. For example, I just love that "Only 6% are happy" speech. And then her conversation with Kanda Kazumi in a much later episode, "Sensei, why do you say such things?"
Maya "Because it's true."
Kanda "I think everyone in this class can be happy, happiness is different for every person. etc, etc."
Maya "If only people could continue to think like that."

Kanda is right, if only people could continue to think like that people would be happier. But the sad reality is that if you do a survey of people in Japan, only around 6% of the people will reply "I feel happy."

So the moral of the story is? Don't be envious, be glad of what you have, and be happy! :P

Got to love Yusuke's Grandma (?), now there's a source of wisdom.

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Post by jaycee05 » Mar 31st, '06, 07:17

Prince of Moles wrote: \And then her conversation with Kanda Kazumi in a much later episode, "Sensei, why do you say such things?"
Maya "Because it's true."
Kanda "I think everyone in this class can be happy, happiness is different for every person. etc, etc."
Maya "If only people could continue to think like that."
I just finished watching ep10 which has that part...I have been waiting forever to ask those questions to akutsu-sensei herself. I'm so happy I finally get a peek inside her mind. But then, when everything starts to get emotional, she suddenly breaks the atmosphere by either bursting the students' bubble or do some more scolding.
:lol
I really love the bit about "you study not because you pass the test but for you to become a greater person" and also the parts that Prince of Moles has quoted above. I feel like I also sit in her lecture everytime I watch an episode of this drama.
While she is delivering the ugly truth to these 12 year old kids, she also seems to mock the people watching the drama. "Open your eyes, look at your own life."

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Post by Prince of Moles » Apr 19th, '06, 04:52

So, Jaycee05 do you feel that a person will become a better human being through education? :P
I really do hope that education has that kind of a transformative effect on people. (Rather than simply as a means to get a better job.)

Anyway, I watched the last episode again. It really is a good series. Of course seeing Mohko from Kisarazu Cat's Eye as the absent mom was a great cameo cast.

I should focus on my present as well. Aloha! :D

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Post by enuyasha » Apr 20th, '06, 19:32

I finally got to finished watching the last ep and thought it was pretty predictable at the end.
I have to admit I almost cried at the end when all the kids were singing and crying.

Speaking of the end, Aloha doesn't also mean " I Love You" does it?

The other thing I wanted to know was the transition between hating Maya to liking Maya?
I still don't get it, when did they have a change of heart?
I had to rewatched the end of ep10 and the class still hated her ,but not as much as before.

Can somebody explain how they started to like Maya?
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Post by SnWa » Apr 21st, '06, 04:54

From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: alo·ha
Pronunciation: &-'lO-"(h)ä, ä-, -(h)&
Function: interjection
Etymology: Hawaiian, from aloha love
-- used as a greeting or farewell
From Wikipedia:
Aloha in the Hawaiian language means affection, love, compassion, mercy, goodbye, and hello, among other sentiments of a similar nature. It is used especially in Hawai'i as a greeting meaning hello and goodbye.
You just gave me an excuse to rewatch episode 10 and 11.

I always thought this show was about shifting perceptions and perspectives.
When the students asked those hard questions while the school board official observed, we heard answers that confirmed what we suspected of Akutsu-sensei -- that what she did was ultimately for the benefit of the students. At the same time, I think the same realization was just starting to dawn upon the students. At the end of that class, the students were questioning whether or not Akutsu-sensei was really a good teacher. But with Kazumi's leadership, they decided that it didn't matter and that there really was something they could and wanted to learn from Akutsu-sensei.

Probably really liking Akutsu-sensei did not come until later -- after witnessing just how far she was willing to go to protect her students, and listening to her last lesson before she was removed from the classroom. Then there were several months between that incident and graduation for the students to fully realize what Akutsu-sensei was trying to do and had done for them.

Part of this story was about the growth and maturation of the students and this process involved the shifting of perspectives to understand situations from other points of view. The mark of the students' growth was their understanding of Akutsu-sensei's point of view.
And yes, my eyes were also damp when the visual and audio tributes were presented to Akutsu-sensei.

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Post by Crazy Penguin » Apr 27th, '06, 04:46

I know if I was a parent in the series, I'd end up in heated discussions with Maya lol. I disagree with many of the points she mentioned. Power and money are absolutely no guarantee for happiness (it's just money, and power is usually always abused anyway), but I think that should be clear. Also, I've never studied at school to become a greater person, I just did it to get through the damn exams lol.
Honestly, I think what she tried to to was partly quite counter-productive. I mean, she completely worked against team work with the whole affair around spies and traitors. Though, that way Maya showed how easily most people bow down to power executed from above. Add a little pressure and they will give in and obey, no matter how mean their tasks will be. I think it's quite a good view at human nature. There are, sadly, too many people who would react like Baba-chan or Erika-chan when put into the same position, human history proves that easily (gotta love it when Yuusuke goes at those other girls asking them how they would have reacted; he's an idiot, yes, but he has his heart in the right place).

Also, she managed to unite the students against her, though, that's pretty much a tactic usually used by the military lol. Get the recruits so far that they hate the drill instructor more than the enemy.
But hell... I must say both Amami-san and little Shida-san definitely deserved their awards for their roles. That was one hell of a performance by both.

Curious how skilled Shida and Fukuda will be some 5 or 6 years...

Though... I think Maya is far better than Darth Vader... she's by far more scary. That piercing look? Oi...
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Post by Prince of Moles » Apr 27th, '06, 08:58

I'm not sure if Maya said that power and money is the way to happiness. However, I do know that it's really hard to be happy without money. You don't have to be stinking rich, but without money to go on vacations when you want, or to afford to the niceties of life most people will not be happy.

PS
As for the teamwork thing, I think you got her intent in the second half of your comment. She was trying to foster teamwork through their own initiative. What's the point of teamwork if the authority forms the teams?

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Post by Crazy Penguin » Apr 27th, '06, 15:28

Aye, but most people would surely reply to the question "what makes you happy?" with "a lottery jackpot". Also, she mentioned the 6% who will be happy and -maybe I got it wrong- hinted that they'd use the rest of the people, the unhappy ones, for the lower work.

You're right about the teamwork. I guess the problem I had with her methods was that I absolutely hate liars, traitors and people who sell others just to get an advantage for themselves. I really hate such people. Pisses me off. So when Maya pulled those stunts... oi... Her goal is great, but her methods are, at times, quite... debatable. Frankly, if she'd pull with my daughter what she did with Erika-chan and Baba-chan... I think I'd deck her lol.
But I loved the little nod to Gokusen "I'm the homeroom teacher" and off we go to whoop some ass.
Finally saw episoe 10 and 11. God damn it... what a tear jerker :cry: But hell, the little Shida and Fukuda can act... Amazing. Shibasaki and Nakama better get some warm underwear, cause it's gonna be cold, there're some great youngsters coming after them.
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Post by rubychan » Apr 27th, '06, 15:56

wonder if the hardsub is out yet, only 1 more to go, can't wait >_<. You guys should see the behind the scene on youtube.com, its awesome !!!!

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Post by SnWa » Apr 28th, '06, 02:32

@rubychan: You're late to the party! :-) kryptolus released episode 11 on Apr 18. I've already watched it twice :lol

See
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... 9ce484d9ed
for the single episode or
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopi ... d2f7539406
for the batch.

We're just waiting for kryptolus to take a well-deserved break and come back to finish the two-part special. :D
Crazy Penguin wrote:Aye, but most people would surely reply to the question "what makes you happy?" with "a lottery jackpot". Also, she mentioned the 6% who will be happy and -maybe I got it wrong- hinted that they'd use the rest of the people, the unhappy ones, for the lower work.
But pay attention to how Akutsu-sensei responds in episode 10 when Kazumi questioned Akutsu-sensei's comment about only 6% being happy. (Prince of Moles quoted it earlier in this thread.)
Crazy Penguin wrote:You're right about the teamwork. I guess the problem I had with her methods was that I absolutely hate liars, traitors and people who sell others just to get an advantage for themselves. I really hate such people. Pisses me off. So when Maya pulled those stunts... oi... Her goal is great, but her methods are, at times, quite... debatable. Frankly, if she'd pull with my daughter what she did with Erika-chan and Baba-chan... I think I'd deck her lol.
I agree Akutsu-sensei's methods were absolutely brutal
...and one could argue that without the extraordinary luck she had with having Kazumi to lead her classmates through these trials, Akutsu-sensei's plans could not have but failed disastrously, inflicting irreparable harm on the psyche of these young minds.

But I like to imagine Akutsu-sensei as a person that has learned to perceive just how far she can push. And that what she did to Baba and Erika was not to bend them to her will, but to force them to realize how much of a friend Kazumi was to them -- being able to forgive, being able to still be genuinely concerned for them. I believe it ultimately taught them the lesson about liars and traitors that you expressed.

Of course, this was not the only way to have develop Akutsu-sensei's character (see old ant's comments on jdorama.com), but I'm a sucker for characterization of hidden angels.

Watch the special and see if you find this characterization believable.
Crazy Penguin wrote:
But I loved the little nod to Gokusen "I'm the homeroom teacher" and off we go to whoop some ass.
I was reminded of Gokusen too, but I found it more striking that the tone and flavour of how this scene developed was so different from Gokusen. It was much more serious. I was actually afraid that things may end badly... something that I never thought with Gokusen.

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Post by Crazy Penguin » Apr 28th, '06, 05:10

I agree. When that one student with the laptop came up with the idea... I don't know, it was so clear that it would backfire at them. It was really a DUMB idea. The dumbest of all.

Still need to watch the specials.
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Post by ymc » May 3rd, '06, 16:51

Prince of Moles wrote:I'm not sure if Maya said that power and money is the way to happiness. However, I do know that it's really hard to be happy without money. You don't have to be stinking rich, but without money to go on vacations when you want, or to afford to the niceties of life most people will not be happy.
Based on my understanding of EP10, her point is that you need learn about the world such that you can find out what you want and how to get what you want. As a result, you will find your happiness. She said "One is dead when he/she loses his/her curiosity. That's why she told them studying is very important. But the desire to study is even more important. And that kind of desire can only come from a lving person - a curious person.

Hope I got it right. :whistling:

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Post by Crazy Penguin » May 3rd, '06, 17:06

Yep. Though, in the beginning she pretty much tells them that, if they don't belong to the top notch, to the high society with its elite schools and what not, they won't be happy.

Quite an evil way to motivate them.
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Post by ymc » May 5th, '06, 14:27

OST can be downloaded here:

http://channelj.tgfcer.com/sibork/Joou_ ... su_Ost.rar

Still looking for theme song.


:cheers:

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Post by broken_string » May 10th, '06, 19:10

juz finish this drama last night

this is one of the best drama i have ever watch since 1 litre of tears last year.

looking forward to the specials :)
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Post by Lowest » May 11th, '06, 20:07

I just finished watching the 1st special, and I though it was awesome!
I love(d) this show, they did a great job at showing the transition from her happy naive self into the half of what we see in the series. I was hoping for more appearences from the other class members (the other main 3) but kazumi was good enough. :P
I can't wait to see the second special.

kryptolus did an awesome job with the series. :thumleft:


Glad to see the specials got good viewing too..

# SP (Part 1): 18.7%
# SP (Part 2): 21.2%

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Post by insyte » May 13th, '06, 10:44

Ive only recently finished watching this series and it was great :) And reading the posts in this thread, Id have to agree that ep 10 was the pivotal episode :)

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Post by Gir » May 17th, '06, 20:07

I just finished this one, it was very enjoyable, I watched the whole thing in 3 days. As others said, I think some of her tactics were counter productive. It was kind of funny as early on I was thinking if someone were to actually teach like this, somebody would probably end up going on a rampage or burning the place down, then came the scene with Erika-chan.

Prince of Moles wrote: I'm not sure if Maya said that power and money is the way to happiness. However, I do know that it's really hard to be happy without money. You don't have to be stinking rich, but without money to go on vacations when you want, or to afford to the niceties of life most people will not be happy.
Awhile ago I read about a survey where they found that having more money didn't make people any happier. But then it said that this only applied to people who made over $50,000 a year, for people who made less than that, more money did equate to more happiness. So basically it would seem you just need to get to a point where you are not scrapeing along and worrying about it all the time.


Another thing I noticed, isn't Akutsu-sensei's apartment the same one that Yamada had in Trick? The surroundings didn't seem exactly the same nor the inside layout. But the hallway and the entrance sure looked alike.

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Post by Prince of Moles » May 17th, '06, 22:09

lol, if it's the same apartment as Yamada Naoko's I'll just have to laugh.

On another note, keep in mind that $50,000 per year is the average median household income in the US. Yes Household. That means in many cases, two people are working to make $50,000 for the family.

The good news is that, for half the people financially getting to that number is very doable. Question is: why is it that even of those making $50,000+, so few are happy.

Wish I knew the answer there...

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Post by Gir » May 18th, '06, 00:07

Well, I dug out my Trick discs and the apartments are not the same, there is a remarkable similarity to the building layout, (the stairs, the hallway, the apartment entrance), but the building is not the same one. Though I guess a similarity in cheap apartment buildings is probably not that unexpected. There is probably at least hundreds of them if not thousands of them built across Japan, all basically built on the same basic plans.

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Post by pokute » May 18th, '06, 00:25

Prince of Moles wrote:lol, if it's the same apartment as Yamada Naoko's I'll just have to laugh.

On another note, keep in mind that $50,000 per year is the average median household income in the US. Yes Household. That means in many cases, two people are working to make $50,000 for the family.

The good news is that, for half the people financially getting to that number is very doable. Question is: why is it that even of those making $50,000+, so few are happy.

Wish I knew the answer there...
The answer is that polls tend to be taken in major urban centers. Two people earning 50k and spending 18k per year on rent will have a hard time being happy when they look around and see other people eating at restaurants and driving cars.

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Post by Prince of Moles » May 18th, '06, 05:33

Ah yeah! Good point pokute, that's definitely true. If you live in the city and still have to own to car, then your spending on things like rent and car and gas just skyrockets. I bet even in the suburbs, rents are not that much cheaper.

(One of the few benefits of living in Manhattan and central Tokyo is that you don't have to own a car.)

I suppose if you live in the rural areas $50,000 is probably more than enough since rent is a lot cheaper.

When you do the math that way, 6% might not be that odd. Around 17% live in the countryside afterall. Even if only 1/3 (I don't know how many make how much, haven't bothered to dig things up) of those people make the $50,000 that's over 5%.

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Post by goygakgoy » Jun 13th, '06, 07:05

WOW! I just saw this drama for the first time last week and just finished. How did I missed out on this? This has to be my favorite drama! If u guys missed out in it...it's a shame.

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Post by goygakgoy » Jun 13th, '06, 07:10

u wrote it long ago, but yeah, it's a dumb idea. Sadly, it does reflect the truth in this world. Just on the news today, I heard some girl from the US who lied to her parents and took a plan to Israel to see a guy she met online. I know this lady who met somebody online and he beat the crap out of her.I didn't like that the drama picked this idea, but it was as real as it can be.
Crazy Penguin wrote:I agree. When that one student with the laptop came up with the idea... I don't know, it was so clear that it would backfire at them. It was really a DUMB idea. The dumbest of all.

Still need to watch the specials.

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Post by SnWa » Jun 14th, '06, 02:15

goygakgoy wrote:WOW! I just saw this drama for the first time last week and just finished. How did I missed out on this? This has to be my favorite drama! If u guys missed out in it...it's a shame.
Now you see why we campaigned so much for this show in the JSoTW poll. :D

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And another thing about it ...

Post by Kuraharashizue » Jun 26th, '06, 20:39

What gets to me is not just the obvious story, but what it also says about the state of the educational system in Japan and, I daresay, elsewhere. North America also suffers from the weaselly bureaucrats and officials who are so afraid of losing their jobs, they can't stand up and point out when something goes wrong or, worse, stand up for the teachers who are trying to do a difficult job. No wonder so many kids 'graduate' here [North Am] without even being able to read their diplomas. We desperately need more teachers such as Akutsu-sensei. I remember when we used to have them. Then political correctness came in and kids wound up with all the rights, and none of the responsibilities and it's been going downhill ever since.

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Thanks for brining this drama to our attention for JSOTW

Post by Keeper of hells gate2 » Jun 29th, '06, 20:47

This is a great drama. One of the better ones that I have seen. Nice to see something good come along. I have been pretty disappointed with the recent dramas lately. Attention Please, Kurosagi, Gal Circle are/where terrible. You know its pretty sad when the JAV adult film stars in Glory Days have as much acting range as some of these idols that are starring in some of these popular dramas. Not very good acting or story in some of these more recent dramas.

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Post by Thuan » Jun 29th, '06, 23:00

Just finished watching the specials.

Great, this is what a prequel should look like. If you think that the dorama is dark, wait for the Specials. During the scene at the river in the first special I had a flashback to SYMPATHY FOR MR. VENGEANCE. And the second special reminded me of ALL ABOUT LILY CHOU-CHOU.

I remember that parents complained about the dorama because it was too dark for their kids. If kids got nightmares from the dorama, I wonder how they felt about the specials?

My favourite drama from 2005. I'm still waiting for a drama from 2006 that is able to hold my interest for more than a few episodes. I'm really dispappointed by this year's dramas so far.

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Post by Thuan » Jun 29th, '06, 23:09

Oh, and I did I mention the violent fight scene? Didn't see that coming.

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Post by tenuki » Jul 1st, '06, 19:28

The specials make it clear that Maya's comments about the 6% and trying to do well in school were another one of her walls that she put up for students to overcome. Don't be confused by that.

Also, this comes out when the little girl says that she thinks everyone can find happiness in their own way, and Maya responds by saying something along the lines of "never forget that."

I give huge credit to the creators for making a ballsy drama. I have not come to expect that from japanese dramas.

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Post by Hates_ » Jul 10th, '06, 09:22

I steamed through the whole series as it was just so good. This is the best JDorama I have watched to date. I couldn't help but cry at the end when they all sang to her. :cry:

If only there was something to fill the void :-(

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Ayn Rand?

Post by mister.chairman » Jul 14th, '06, 05:29

Has anybody read interviews or press releases mentioning Ayn Rand and Objectivism in relation to this series?

When I saw Gokusen, I thought exactly the same thing the creators of this series must have thought. What if you recast Gokusen with a bad teacher? I was thinking someone like Beat Takeshi's character in Battle Royale. At first glance, what with the butterflies, Wicked Witch costume, and fairytale references to dreams and demons, it would appear that this bad teacher was based on an evil queen from a childrens' story. I soon realized, though, that they had done something far more interesting. This bad teacher is a character from an Ayn Rand novel!
I thought there might be a dual meaning, that maybe she was really trying to teach the kids the opposite of what she was saying, but her philosophy is so strikingly similar to Ayn Rand's. During that speech about studying to become the best person you can, I expected her to say, "Man qua man." She's expressing reason and the use of reasoning faculties as the highest value in life. She really believes that the excellent should be happier than the weak, because excellence is required to find happiness.

At the end, when she concedes that music or soccer can also lead to happiness, this is not backpedalling. Ayn Rand actually wrote a play and novella about how "secondhanders" give selfishly to push people away from their own happiness. One of the characters loves piano, but the "altruist" pushed him to be a doctor by paying for his college education. Happiness for Rand is the pursuit of one's own self-interest in whatever form that may take. To give up piano for medicine would not be morally correct--it would be an immoral self-sacrifice for another person. So Maya is not being inconsistent at all when she says each student's own path can end in happiness; she is only demanding that her students pursue that path through excellence.

Neither is she backpedalling when she concedes that friendship is one way to overcome hardships and make it to happiness, because remember she showed the kids that their friends have to earn their trust. Ayn Rand strongly supported friendship--even fierce loyalty--when the friendship is based upon a genuine pact between reasoning human beings.

Ayn Rand wrote: "I shall choose friends among men, but neither slaves nor masters. And I shall choose only such as please me, and them I shall love and respect, but neither command nor obey. And we shall join our hands when we wish, or walk alone when we so desire." Could that not have come out of Maya's mouth?

When Kanda went on about how Maya taught them good things by being bad, Maya became very angry. She said that she has never considered anything she did bad. That means she wasn't lying. She wasn't sending an ironic message. Everything she said to the kids was true.
This may be stretching it, but Ayn sounds like "Mayan" and Maya is that word minus one letter. Ayn->Mayan->Maya. If Akuma->Aku-tsu Ma-ya, they could have picked Mayu, Mariko, Mai, or Machi. It proves nothing on its own, but the name they did choose would be perfect if the character was inspired by Ayn Rand.

I've got a lot of love for this series. The special, even moreso.
That opening with the prison-like atmosphere reminded me of Hannibal Lector. She got put back in lock-up! When she flipped open her laptop, I expected her to start typing, "It's lonely here, Clarice..." Then she pulls the Lethal Weapon stunt on the tracks. "Do you really wanna jump?! Do you wanna?" Woo! The special just puts it so much more over the top, and it gives such weight to every event. It's like Batman Begins.

The creators of this series seriously have a great understanding of pop culture. It's like a parody of school dramas, only totally vicious and unrelenting, like a comedy written by deranged sadists. They play on genre conventions and audience expectation so well.
If anybody can confirm or deny that Ayn Rand theory, though, please post!

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Re: And another thing about it ...

Post by kotaeshiranaihito » Jul 22nd, '06, 20:18

Kuraharashizue wrote:What gets to me is not just the obvious story, but what it also says about the state of the educational system in Japan and, I daresay, elsewhere. North America also suffers from the weaselly bureaucrats and officials who are so afraid of losing their jobs, they can't stand up and point out when something goes wrong or, worse, stand up for the teachers who are trying to do a difficult job. No wonder so many kids 'graduate' here [North Am] without even being able to read their diplomas. We desperately need more teachers such as Akutsu-sensei. I remember when we used to have them. Then political correctness came in and kids wound up with all the rights, and none of the responsibilities and it's been going downhill ever since.

The media is seriously overplaying the amount kids who graduate without being able to read. Why? To get a good story, of course. If you actually go to the schools and test each individual child, you will see that most of them are decent to good when it comes to education.

If you want to complain about political correctness, I would find other targets than children.

I myself had an experience with a teacher from hell when I was in fifth grade (after the time that students got "all the rights" as you said). This guy was horrible. He was a lot like her, except he was just doing it because he was a powerhungry butt, while she did it to teach the kids a lesson.

He has his own system of discrimination just like her. The students who got the highest grades were made monitors and did certain jobs for him. I was one of them (and had the dirtiest job of all), even though I never studied for his tests I always got the top grades. The monitors had to keep track of records that he wanted. There were three monitors, one kept track of any extra points he gave (stars for getting answers right) and quiz grades (he kept the big test grades himself and took the average every week from the quiz grade sheet), another kept track of students who did something bad (don't remember it very well), and I had the punishment list. I had to keep track of all the punishments he gave out (essays, lines, corrections for tests-if someone got below a 70-80 it varied, he/she would have to write the questions and answers on a sheet of paper and hand it in to him). He gave special priviledges to his monitors that other students didn't get. We were allowed to go to the bathroom during class, we were allowed to come in late from breaks, and we were allowed to leave early sometimes (I only used those privileges once to buy a drink). And people who had punishment assignments due were not allowed to go on breaks, had to sit in for half of lunch, and were forced to skip any activities until they finished them. And at the end of the semester he would deduct their grades if they had any assignments due.

A lot of the punishments he gave were for completely ridiculous reasons though, but some were extremely cruel. For example, once during a test, a student was coughing a lot and he told me to give him a punishment assignment, 200 lines "I will not cough in class". I stood up for the student and told him he was being harsh, but he said that the student was faking to disrupt class, I countered saying I saw him earlier and that he was really sick, so he just told me to hand in the punishment sheet and he gave him the assignment anyway, and gave me an essay to write. I was so angry that I stormed out of class and ended up having detention (the first and only student in his class to get one). After I did the punishment essay and test corrections (I got a 70 because I walked out early and didn't finish) he just gave me back the sheet and told me I was doing a good job, like it was nothing at all-BTW I really wasn't, I didn't put down and erased at least half of the punishments that people received, all the monitors juggled the sheets for the other students.

And aside from all that, he would sometimes handle the students very roughly. Like if he wanted to throw a student out he would take them by the arm, drag them and throw them out of the class (keep in mind this was a 5th grade student). This happened a few times.

Most teachers from hell are not like akutsu, they really are teachers from hell. We were all so glad that year was over and we were rid of him. But alas, it got worse later; even after all the students' and parents' complaints, he was PROMOTED to VICE PRINCIPAL!!!! That was my second year of hell. I got detention twice that year for doing nothing more than walking in a certain section of the school.

One of the worst teachers ever.

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