[Discussion] Last Cinderella

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
FOM
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Post by FOM » May 3rd, '13, 03:46

Hideaki_Ito wrote:I couldn't even finish ep 3. After 2.5 ep, I'm already bored of Hiroto and Sakura relationship (or rather Hiroto character.) Looking at him reminds me of Jin from Anego (but at that time there was Masaya Kato for me to drool over.) Probably will come back or maybe not. I can't hold this hot potato any longer.
Lol—I have a sneaking suspicion I’m falling on the wrong side of the “type” divide around here. Because Jin Akanishi was the only reason I watched Anego (and certainly the only reason I finished it), and Kato Masaya just made me want to punch him in the face…

Fortunately I like Naohito Fujiki better than him, but he’s still not nearly as much my type as Haruma Miura. Or Jin Akanishi, for that matter. (Though these days I’d take Kazuya Kamenashi over either of them in a heartbeat. Guessing there are a few people on this board who wouldn’t care for him either… ;)

Oh well—to each her own, I suppose. The world would get boring fast if we all had exactly the same taste...

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Post by raffycc » May 5th, '13, 12:19

Oh my god I think I am the only one liking it XD
I knew from the first second of this drama that it would be nothing new to see but I still wanted to see it because of the cast. (If there will be an expected events they will be welcome)

I don't know if things will be exactly as expected but the alchemy between Rintaro and Sakura ... i totally love it!!!
To me the scene when Hiroto hugs the girl with curly fried hair (sorry i don't remember her name) was so real. Very predictable but still well done. Just my opinion.
by the way I can still relate with what u are saying about his character but maybe I don't pay to much attention to it cause I started watching this series with the feeling I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Sorry if my english is wrong and it doesn't make sense.
Love this forum^^

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 5th, '13, 14:21

I really like it too, raffycc. I wasn't expecting anything new or groundbreaking so I'm enjoying it.

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Post by FOM » May 5th, '13, 16:26

raffycc wrote:Oh my god I think I am the only one liking it XD
I knew from the first second of this drama that it would be nothing new to see but I still wanted to see it because of the cast. (If there will be an expected events they will be welcome)

I don't know if things will be exactly as expected but the alchemy between Rintaro and Sakura ... i totally love it!!!
To me the scene when Hiroto hugs the girl with curly fried hair (sorry i don't remember her name) was so real. Very predictable but still well done. Just my opinion.
by the way I can still relate with what u are saying about his character but maybe I don't pay to much attention to it cause I started watching this series with the feeling I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Sorry if my english is wrong and it doesn't make sense.
Love this forum^^
Finally, a kindred spirit! I’m enjoying it too—actually thought I might quit reading this board soon, because it was getting to be kind of a downer. ;) Like you, I wasn’t expecting anything revolutionary, but I’m watching (and loving) it because of the cast. As it turns out, it already has surprised me a bit—mostly because I assumed before starting it that Hiroto would be the main pairing, while it’s clear to me now that Sakura and Rintaro are the ones who are supposed to end up together. I also don’t think that Hiroto is actually falling for Sakura, though there are a few red-herrings suggesting he might be. So I guess if it turns out he is falling for her, I’ll be surprised then too… ;)

That scene at the end—awesome. That’s the Haruma Miura I know and love—just a glimpse of him, but I’ll take it. When he dropped the flowers and ran off to Chiyoko, that was the first time we’ve seen this character do something of his own volition, wholeheartedly, with a purpose. As usual, his performance got stronger as soon as the character’s actions and desires were in line with each other. Also, seems like we might finally have an answer to the “what’s the connection between Hiroto and Chiyoko?” question—because according to my (very) rudimentary understanding of Japanese, the last line of the episode preview was something like “Chiyoko-san to kyoukai tte koto??” which I think means roughly, “You mean [he’s] Chiyoko-san’s sibling??” I don’t think it specifies the gender or identity of the sibling, but Hiroto seems the most likely candidate…

Assuming that’s true, it makes the kissing-her-back thing a little weird—but not totally out in left field given that he’s apparently responsible for giving her this giant scar. Actually, the fact that he caused her serious injury (presumably through an act of particularly egregious carelessness, judging by the rest of the family’s attitude toward him) might explain away most of the reasons I thought they weren’t siblings, and shed light on both their strange master-and-servant dynamic and Hiroto’s dead-eyed, skimming-the-surface approach to life.

Can’t wait for next week! ;)

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Post by MaiKitty » May 5th, '13, 20:02

I just think Sakura is an unrealistic character. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the drama. Yes, it is not groundbreaking, but light hearted entertainment.I like dramas that are not about young adults, but more mature people. I also really start to enjoy Miki and her family. Gosh, that mother in law is so tactless, disgusting. She is my hate character number 1 here and seeing her cleaning Koheis ears in the preview is ew.

Other than that it is a bit slow going. Of course, S. wasn't pregnant, who believed that anyway? I still believe they didn't even have sex. I came to the same conclusion as FOM. (The word for siblings is kyoudai, by the way) Though maybe Chiyoko and Hiroto are half brother and sister? I want to know what happened and they should reveal the mystery of these two soon.
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Post by noyroc » May 5th, '13, 21:06

I love the show too!

The only thing I found myself not liking with this fourth episode is the rush of plots. It feels like there's so much going on... and that there's no resolution in sight for any of them. Not even a bit! It's been four episodes and I feel like Hiroto and Sakura are barely ever together. It almost doesn't feel like a love triangle anymore.

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Post by FOM » May 5th, '13, 21:25

MaiKitty wrote:IOf course, S. wasn't pregnant, who believed that anyway? I still believe they didn't even have sex. I came to the same conclusion as FOM. (The word for siblings is kyoudai, by the way) Though maybe Chiyoko and Hiroto are half brother and sister? I want to know what happened and they should reveal the mystery of these two soon.
Yeah, if she had turned out to be pregnant that really would have thrown a wrench into things. And lol—you’re right, I meant “kyoudai.” But at least my Japanese comprehension is apparently getting better than my typing! I’ll take improvement wherever I can find it… ;)
noryoc wrote:It almost doesn't feel like a love triangle anymore.
Personally, I don’t really think it is a love-triangle—I think it’s more like two separate stories (Sakura and Rintaro’s romance, and Hiroto and Chiyoko’s…whatever the hell is going on there) that overlap in the middle. (Actually, three or four stories if you count the other subplots separately.) Hiroto occasionally acts jealous over Sakura’s relationship with Rintaro, but only to her face—I think that’s just part of the plan, trying to put a wedge between the two of them. I don’t see him really falling for her. Growing to like her, maybe, but not falling in love with her.

Actually, I think that’s one of the novelties of the show—it’s set up like a classic love triangle, but it’s not one. Unless, of course, I’m wrong. Which is always possible. ;)

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Post by noyroc » May 5th, '13, 21:42

I guess you're right. I just wish they pushed along all these overlapping stories more instead of just inching ahead ever so slightly and insignificantly.

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Post by FOM » May 5th, '13, 21:47

noyroc wrote:I guess you're right. I just wish they pushed along all these overlapping stories more instead of just inching ahead ever so slightly and insignificantly.
Fair enough. I guess that's the point at which I fall back on my "I'm happy as long as I'm watching Haruma Miura" philosophy. Love covers a multitude of sins... ;)

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Post by Issy » May 5th, '13, 22:13

All I can say about ep4 is that Rintaro faking his fainting, made go back to my Naohito's crush all over again and now thinking of re-watching Hotru no Hikari! :whistling:
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Post by miss_sunrise » May 5th, '13, 23:06

I admit that I only started watching this because of Miura Haruma (who will always be my fav J-Actor)
The 1st ep nearly bored the hell outta me. I kept checking the watch and was all like "is Haruma never going to appear?" I just wanted to catch a glimpse of him and then turn it off and never watch it again. My mum who was in the living room at the time (I watched it on the TV there) on the other hand kept giggling at Sakura-san. A tiny note: She speaks neither Japanese nor English. Every other minute she'd asked me what happened so I made some rough translations / explanations while waiting for Haruma to finally appear...
And then he finally did! And I was so not impressed. Which is completely rare since usually he has a hell of a presence. Thanks to my mum I finished the first ep though and since I already had dll the 2nd and had nothing better to do, I watched that one too. (Also because I wanted to know how Sakura liked her night with Haruma, hehe)
And suddenly - I loved the drama!!! :wub: This is mainly thanks to Shinohara Ryoko who imo does a fantastic job! I absolutely adore her and just cannot believe she's going to turn 40 this year...
Fujiki Naohito isn't sparkling as much as he usually does as well, but he's doing a nice and solid job and I love him and Sakura bickering :P

I hope that in the end Sakura and Hiroto will work out. I think they're a cute couple (and I believe s.th. was hinted at that at the drama description??) There is an age-gap but I'd rather have them work that out than Sakura+Rintaro. I dunno, they don't have chemistry and it'd be just toooooo boring. This hate-turns-into-love thing we've seen often enough and I'd rather have them become really good friends.

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Post by seirin » May 6th, '13, 04:05

I really don't understand the logic of the complaints. Are 39 reaching 40 yr olds all suppose to be clean and tidy and know how to cook and clean? So females in their 20's are okay if they act messy and can't cook and clean but 40's they should be more mature and be neat and tidy and cook like housewives?

Also, just because Sakura doesn't get mad at Hiroto doesn't mean it's unreal. I think when Sakura sees Momo kissing Hiroto, she realizes that she's the third wheel. She is the one getting in-between the two of them. Love doesn't mean unchanging. You date one person and you later fall for another person. It's common. But it's best to be honest about it rather than make up excuses. Sakura doesn't want to lose Hiroto. If she gets upset at him, he will dump her. But if she pulls back a bit and tells him she's jealous, he might dump the other girl rather than her. This is what the third wheel should be doing. Using the soft (round a bout) technique.

I didn't find Hiroto lying either when he said he and Momo were in a certain kind of relationship but not really dating. Basically, they are "sex partners" and that's it. They both have a need and use each other to full fill it. There's "sex partners" and then there are "girl and boy friend" relationships. Kind of like Seinfeld. He sleeps with Elaine sometimes but they aren't dating anymore. They're just sex partners. Same as With Love where Takenouchi's character sleeps with Fujiwara but he doesn't consider her his GF. When he fell for Amame, he just ended the relationship with his sex partner. There was no regret or loss. It just ended. She on the other hand was a bit mad. I expect the same from Momo who will try to break them up because she will be mad.

I was frankly routing for Hiroto and Sakura because I felt if Sakura can encourage Hiroto to make something of himself, it might be a good thing. Hiroto seems to be lacking a push.
But if Hiroto doesn't change, Sakura's presence in his life might be null. And I really hope Sakura can give Hiroto a good hair cut --;

I disliked Rintaro at first because he was such a male chauvinist pig and kept insulting Sakura all the time. He also made her do all the heavy work without lifting a finger to help; even his own belongings. As a male he's the worst. After ep4, he seems to act more like a friend than scum. I disliked how Sakura kept helping him even though he kept insulting and using her. She's so easy to push over. Sakura should have told him off.

This is the most interesting drama I've watched this season. There's so many questions left unanswered and a lot of cliff hangers. I'm really curious about Hiroto and Choko's past and their family relationship. They kind of gave me the creeps at the end of ep4 O_o.

I don't really mind who Sakura ends up with in the end since Rintaro has shown he can be understanding if he doesn't act like an ass.

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 6th, '13, 04:55

I always find it interesting what people notice or get annoyed by. Because in the same episode where Rintaro got Sakura to carry his things, he also taught her how to hit the ball and gave her a confidence boost when she needed it. They bicker all the time but when she needs emotional support, she always gets it from him.

I think Hiroto will fall for Sakura or at least should fall for her. It's the usual punishment when someone embarks on a relationship for dubious reasons - they fall for him/her for real.

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Post by FOM » May 6th, '13, 05:04

miss_sunrise wrote:I admit that I only started watching this because of Miura Haruma (who will always be my fav J-Actor)
The 1st ep nearly bored the hell outta me. I kept checking the watch and was all like "is Haruma never going to appear?" I just wanted to catch a glimpse of him and then turn it off and never watch it again. My mum who was in the living room at the time (I watched it on the TV there) on the other hand kept giggling at Sakura-san. A tiny note: She speaks neither Japanese nor English. Every other minute she'd asked me what happened so I made some rough translations / explanations while waiting for Haruma to finally appear...
And then he finally did! And I was so not impressed. Which is completely rare since usually he has a hell of a presence. Thanks to my mum I finished the first ep though and since I already had dll the 2nd and had nothing better to do, I watched that one too. (Also because I wanted to know how Sakura liked her night with Haruma, hehe)
And suddenly - I loved the drama!!! :wub: This is mainly thanks to Shinohara Ryoko who imo does a fantastic job! I absolutely adore her and just cannot believe she's going to turn 40 this year...
Fujiki Naohito isn't sparkling as much as he usually does as well, but he's doing a nice and solid job and I love him and Sakura bickering :P

I hope that in the end Sakura and Hiroto will work out. I think they're a cute couple (and I believe s.th. was hinted at that at the drama description??) There is an age-gap but I'd rather have them work that out than Sakura+Rintaro. I dunno, they don't have chemistry and it'd be just toooooo boring. This hate-turns-into-love thing we've seen often enough and I'd rather have them become really good friends.
Another Haruma fan! Goody—I’ve been feeling heavily outnumbered so far… ;)

I too fidgeted through most of the first episode going, “So how much longer before Haruma shows up??” I thought his entrance was quite funny though, partly because it was so different from what I was expecting, not to mention from how he usually is.

Re. the pairing—at this point I think Sakura and Rintaro are a pretty sure bet, and I’m fine with that...but I’ll admit I wouldn’t be disappointed if things somehow took a left turn and a Hiroto/Sakura pairing became plausible. (I’d feel sorry for Rintaro, of course—but I can live with that. ;) I totally agree that the description seemed to suggest Sakura x Hiroto, but I’ve learned not to put too much faith in descriptions or promo-artwork when it comes to J-dramas. There have been several times when promo materials nearly put me off watching something that later turned out to be awesome and totally different from the way the artwork/description made it seem. You never know…

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Post by FOM » May 6th, '13, 05:46

seirin wrote:I really don't understand the logic of the complaints. Are 39 reaching 40 yr olds all suppose to be clean and tidy and know how to cook and clean? So females in their 20's are okay if they act messy and can't cook and clean but 40's they should be more mature and be neat and tidy and cook like housewives?
I totally agree. She seems human to me—someone who’s been living her life as she pleases, and has just started to realize that time is getting away from her. Her place is messy, but it’s not exactly a candidate for the next episode of “Hoarders.” She’s clearly not a natural at dating or entertaining, but it’s not like she can’t take care of herself—she just hasn’t put much effort toward appearances for a while. And there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with that, unless she decides she wants a relationship—which is why she’s now struggling to catch up. At least she's not as clingy and helpless as Hotaru (from Hotaru no Hikari). I enjoyed that series a lot, but Sakura is much more clear-headed and self-sufficient—a relationship is something she wants, not something she needs. She's willing to work for it, but she doesn't totally lose track of her own desires and identity the moment her partner expresses an opinion (which was the main thing that bugged me about Hotaru). I like that.

I'm still in my twenties so I guess I can't speak on behalf of 39-year-olds -- but I like my own space, I hate to cook, and the laundry tends to mysteriously pile up on me. Unless a magic housekeeping fairy puts a spell on me when I turn 35, I imagine I'll be a lot like Sakura at 39. But with no particular desire for marriage or kids. (Though I would definitely say yes if Haruma Miura ever asked me out on a date... ;)

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Post by charia-chan » May 6th, '13, 06:24

I'm still trying to decide if I should dl and watch this one or not.^^
I love most of the actors/actresses but I'm not sure I like the story and its implementation...

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Post by MaiKitty » May 6th, '13, 07:23

^That's hard to answer. Especially the first episode is a little weird. But I think it is getting better. Now I really am interested in where the story is going.

I know some posters had problems with Sakuras messiness and her non-existing cooking abilities. No problems with that. My problems are only focused on her appearance. I wouldn't have a problem with that either if she worked as OL. But she doesn't. So I think her looks are bad for business. :) But she has to look that way, if a make over will happen. And it will, that's the point of Cinderella, isn't it?

I also find it weird how chaste dates between Hiroto and Sakura are. She believes they already did it and he obviously has no problems with it either??!?

Acting wise I also thought that Haruma Miura really was better in episode 4. The scene with Chiyoko. What did he do to her? It really seemed to hurt him. Before that scene he seemed rather weak in his acting, but maybe that IS the character of Hiroto and I just don't get it.
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Post by «minah» » May 6th, '13, 12:01

I still have yet to watch ep. 4 but... I honestly care less about Ryoko's and Haruma's encounters. They're kinda boring to me I guess. Actually, I think it's mainly me not really caring for Haruma's character ^^;;. I just wish they didn't make Ryoko so extreme with her character. I'm messy and can be whatever with my looks (though I'm not 39 but I'm sure I'll still continue to be like this until that age...) but them being so hung up on her making her more 'masculine' (which she doesn't seem like to me... I don't think even older men will go out with their looking pretty much whatever) it's trying to go over the top with it. But I'll be kinda sad if she 'transformed' (As it kinda shows in the opening theme) since I'm someone who likes to and see the challenge of stereotypes & society's views ^^ But, thoughh I'm not crazy about the show, I think I like seeing Ryoko in this type of role even though I'm not a Ryoko fan and I like her friends and that whole mess. I'm more curious in what's gonna happen with that.
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Post by seirin » May 7th, '13, 04:12

MaiKitty wrote: I know some posters had problems with Sakuras messiness and her non-existing cooking abilities. No problems with that. My problems are only focused on her appearance. I wouldn't have a problem with that either if she worked as OL. But she doesn't. So I think her looks are bad for business. :) But she has to look that way, if a make over will happen. And it will, that's the point of Cinderella, isn't it?
Maybe that's one of the reasons why she hasn't got a promotion for the 8 yrs she worked there while everyone else did. They didn't seem to care if she quits either. I kinda root for Hiroto and Sakura. Maybe if Hiroto's dad finds he's turned a new leaf, he'll lend money to Hiroto and Sakura to open a hair salon :P
MaiKitty wrote: I also find it weird how chaste dates between Hiroto and Sakura are. She believes they already did it and he obviously has no problems with it either??!?
I don't even know if Hiroto and Sakura actually slept together. All we have is Hiroto's hearsay. Sakura has no recollection of it. As for their relationship being chaste, it's probably because Sakura is being shy about it. When he tried to kiss her, she backed away, meaning she's not ready yet. He's suave so he's not going to force her. He'll wait until she's ready.

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Post by raffycc » May 7th, '13, 10:54

There is a thing that I don't understand in the drama. I don't know maybe they have said it but I miss it or It's not very important but I'm curious. Rintaro already knew Chiyoko right?? If yes where did they met?? I 'm not sure if it's been said in the drama or no... maybe it's not relevavnt but I have this question if someone could help me.

By the way I don't think they had sex(sakura and Hiroto).

I feel like there is a lot going on (as you all pointed out) Chiyoko Hiroto relationship. Why this chiyoko is soo obsessed with rintaro. How sakura will deal being the 3rd wheel. Rintaro/Sakura??? Are they going to be a couple??? Hiroto will fall in love with her or not???
And I'm even curious about miki, her husband and shime storyline. I wanna kick the husband ass è.é

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Post by seirin » May 7th, '13, 15:32

raffycc wrote:There is a thing that I don't understand in the drama. I don't know maybe they have said it but I miss it or It's not very important but I'm curious. Rintaro already knew Chiyoko right?? If yes where did they met?? I 'm not sure if it's been said in the drama or no... maybe it's not relevavnt but I have this question if someone could help me.
Rintaro and Sakura started out as apprentices at the same salon. Rintaro got promoted, Sakura is still working the same position for 8 years.
raffycc wrote: I feel like there is a lot going on (as you all pointed out) Chiyoko Hiroto relationship. Why this chiyoko is soo obsessed with rintaro. How sakura will deal being the 3rd wheel. Rintaro/Sakura??? Are they going to be a couple??? Hiroto will fall in love with her or not???
And I'm even curious about miki, her husband and shime storyline. I wanna kick the husband ass è.é
I think Chiyoko has had a crush on Rintaro for a long time. She even knows about his past. They also seem to acknowledge knowing Chiyoko for a long time. When she first appeared, Sakura greeted her saying she hasn't seen Chiyoko since she was a little girl. She's grown up so big now.

Chiyoko has a big scar so she's afraid of approaching him. Rintaro might find her scar repulsive. Hiroto probably had an accident with Chiyoko which caused the scar so Hiroto is feels guilty and does her bidding. She's probably suicidal too looking at home Hiroto rushed to her side when she was drunk.

There's not much for Sakura to deal with. Hiroto already said he's ending the relationship with Momo and he did. Rintaro and Sakura may or may not be a couple. They've known each other for a long time. That could be a good or bad thing. Sometimes knowing each other for too long, they've become friends and can't become anymore. Sometimes it works the other way and they come to realize they like each other.

As for Hiroto falling for Sakura, it's unsure yet at this point. I think he's starting to notice her. I don't think he's ever met someone so righteous. But as for Hiroto and Sakura being a pair, I don't know if it would last. Hiroto doesn't seem to like conflict and is easy going so Sakura and him don't get into arguments. But if Sakura does start arguments Hiroto might just walk away. As opposed to Rintaro who will fight with her until they smooth out their disagreements.

As for Miki, I think she should kick out her husband. He's a cheater wannabe and doesn't care about his wife at all. His mother is bullying his wife and he doesn't do a thing about it nor does he seem to care.

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Post by seirin » May 10th, '13, 16:27

It looks like ep 6 will end the game. Hiroto looks like he's starting to be serious about her and doesn't want to play Chiyoko's game anymore.

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Post by raffycc » May 10th, '13, 18:50

I can't wait to watch episode 5.... I know too random>.<

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Post by FOM » May 10th, '13, 20:03

Regarding episode 5...mild swearing ahead...
Oh CRAP. Damn, damn, and double-damn—just when I thought I was 100% sure that Sakura and Rintaro would end up together and I was okay with that, stupid Hiroto had to go and start actually falling for her and making me hope again. DAMN. I hate this show.

By which I mean, of course, I love this show. But I am annoyed. Thing is, if I root for Rintaro and Hiroto wins, I’ll still be happy, but if I root for Hiroto and Rintaro wins, I’ll be seriously bummed. The obvious rational choice is to keep rooting for Rintaro—but that’s easier said than done… *sigh*

In the good news column, we do now finally know for sure that Hiroto and Chiyoko are brother and sister. (Sounded like there was an explanation of the last-name-discrepancy in there too, but I didn’t catch it.) Not only that, but Rintaro seems to have put a few pieces together regarding the Bobbsey twins and their evil plan—that’ll be interesting. Anxious to see the subs for this episode and find out if there’s any important information I missed. And really excited for next week, as the evil plan begins to unravel...

(Random lol: The scene where Sakura turned up to defend a beaten and bloodied Hiroto from that gang of thugs gave me Gokusen flashbacks. Natsukashii, ne Haruma-kun…? ;)

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Post by raffycc » May 10th, '13, 20:51

it's already out???? where???O.O

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Post by FOM » May 10th, '13, 21:34

raffycc wrote:it's already out???? where???O.O
Here: http://jdramacity.blogspot.com/2013/05/ ... rella.html

Not sure why, but as of a week or two ago furransu started posting all uploads to this jdramacity blog instead of d-addicts. (*shrugs*) Oh well -- as long as I can still find them somewhere, I'm happy... ;)

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Post by raffycc » May 10th, '13, 21:55

FOM wrote:
raffycc wrote:it's already out???? where???O.O
Here: http://jdramacity.blogspot.com/2013/05/ ... rella.html

Not sure why, but as of a week or two ago furransu started posting all uploads to this jdramacity blog instead of d-addicts. (*shrugs*) Oh well -- as long as I can still find them somewhere, I'm happy... ;)
THAK YOU SO MUCH!!!!

by the way now that i clicked on the link i understand why!

still thank you

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Post by MaiKitty » May 11th, '13, 22:47

I don't know, I wasn't a big fan of this episode. They just keep us hanging regarding the Chiyoko and Hiroto relationship. Nothing was really solved here. And are they really brother and sister? The paper might say so..... but if it is true, then their relationship has loads of incesty-vibes going on. I find the character of Hiroto kind of flat. But I really enjoy Chiyoko. I felt for her when Rintaro said she was like a younger sister to him. That must have hurt.

I can't wait for next week because there seems to be a host club - and Yusuke Yamamoto!!! I can't wait - I love him so much. In one scene he seems to grab Miki. Please don't let them be involved, they (Nene and Yusuke) will always be mother and son to me. :pale:
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Post by seirin » May 12th, '13, 00:23

I think they are half brother and sister even if not blood related. It seems Hiroto's mom is divorced from his dad and his dad remarried. Whether Chiyoko is Hiroto's dad's biological daughter or not is another matter. But they are related. The newspaper says he's the eldest son of the Ogami tycoon. Chiyoko's last name is Ogami. Hiroto's last name is Ogami. Chiyoko is the daughter of Ogami tycoon. Hence the are related unless there's more than one Ogami tycoon. Saeki Hiroto is Hiroto's performance name.

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Post by zooey » May 12th, '13, 01:30

MaiKitty wrote:I don't know, I wasn't a big fan of this episode. They just keep us hanging regarding the Chiyoko and Hiroto relationship. Nothing was really solved here. And are they really brother and sister? The paper might say so..... but if it is true, then their relationship has loads of incesty-vibes going on.

I kinda feel the same frustration over the slow reveal about the Chiyoko-Hiroto connection. I get the impression that they're step siblings since they appear to have that Kathryn-Sebastian vibe a la Cruel Intentions wherein the former dictates the latter's recent game. This theory however doesn't hold up completely because Chiyoko seems to genuinely like Rintaro and Hiroto might just be playing along since he feels that he has to atone for something he did to Chiyoko. Another take is that they really are related by blood, making them half-siblings, and whatever HIroto did in the past to Chiyoko along with his choice of career led his family to disown him. Ugh, I know that HIroto is supposed to be all torn up by guilt but there was nothing brotherly about that last scene in episode 4. That thing just stirred up unwanted memories of the tragedy that was Sora Kara Furu Ichioku no Hoshi.

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the show (God knows I have a number of issues with it) but I'm keeping tabs of it just to see who Sakura ends up with. A part of me also wants to see how Story B about the friends will be resolved.

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Post by FOM » May 12th, '13, 08:36

Okay, so, new (somewhat self-serving but still potentially plausible) theory: Maybe Rintaro really isn’t in love with Sakura (and Haruma will get to win the day after all! ;). I've been assuming all along that Rintaro definitely had feelings for her and it was just a matter of who she would end up being in love with, but maybe that's not the case. The scene that made me wonder about this was the scene where Chiyoko voiced her suspicion that Rintaro had feelings for Sakura. He denied it immediately (of course), but the conversation ended before he could say more than that. The thing is, when she asked him earlier if there was someone he liked, he answered yes without hesitation or apology—why then would he get so shy when she asks about who it is, especially since she frames it as if she already knows for certain? And maybe this is just me seeing what I want to see, but I didn’t get a super strong “methinks thou doth protest too much” kind of vibe from his denial. It sort of sounded to me like he was actually trying to correct a mistaken impression. Maybe that just means Rintaro is a better actor than some in that situation—but maybe it means there actually is another person in this strange little love-web the show is building. Moreover, what Rintaro said in answer to Chiyoko’s “is there someone you like” question was, “Yes, but she’s gone to a place where I can’t reach her” (or something like that)—which I remember thinking even at the time was an odd way for him to characterize Sakura’s budding relationship with Hiroto. She was dating him by then, but it’s not like they were engaged—they barely knew each other. If Rintaro was honestly in love with Sakura, considering the depth of feeling he seemed to have for whoever he was talking about, it seems a little weird that he would give up on her so easily without even trying to let her know how he feels. And there have been a few different references to some past relationship of his that was particularly painful—maybe the point is that he’s still in love with that person, not that he’s in love with Sakura.

That would be awesome.

Oh crap—now I really am rooting for Hiroto again. And I don't think I'm going to be able to cross back over if this theory doesn't pan out. This had better end well, or I’m going to be royally pissed… ;)

As for Chiyoko and Hiroto's relationship—I think half-siblings is a distinct possibility, now that we know that they have the same father (at least) and Hiroto's parents are divorced. I'm also wondering if the injury that threw him off his BMX game when he was 19 is related to the scar on Chiyoko's back—maybe he was driving under the influence and got them into a serious car wreck, or something like that. That's my best guess at the moment...

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Post by seirin » May 12th, '13, 21:55

FOM wrote:maybe the point is that he’s still in love with that person, not that he’s in love with Sakura.
This is the same interpretation I got from his response. He's not in love with Sakura. That's why I think Hiroto isn't such a bad choice for Sakura. Hiroto needs someone to heal and encourage him. He doesn't have any family love and understanding but Sakura could give him that.

As for the ending who Sakura ends up with. I wouldn't decide too soon. Maybe Rintaro will finally let go of his old flame and notice Sakura who is living and beside him. I kind of prefer Hiroto + Sakura pairing because Sakura is needed by someone. With Rintaro, he's too independent and it doesn't seem to matter if she's there for him or not.

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Post by FOM » May 12th, '13, 22:59

seirin wrote:As for the ending who Sakura ends up with. I wouldn't decide too soon. Maybe Rintaro will finally let go of his old flame and notice Sakura who is living and beside him. I kind of prefer Hiroto + Sakura pairing because Sakura is needed by someone. With Rintaro, he's too independent and it doesn't seem to matter if she's there for him or not.
It's possible -- but I feel like it's a little late in the game (halfway through the series) for them to successfully accomplish that double-bluff. Up until now, the show has definitely been trying to give us the impression that Rintaro has feelings for Sakura, (hopefully) for the purpose of setting up the surprise that the person he has feelings for is actually somebody else. If they're trying to get from, "Surprise! He's really in love with hidden-character X!" to him getting over hidden-character X, to him actually falling in love with Sakura instead (and then winning her back from Hiroto), I feel like they would have needed to start that process earlier to make it believable. Dragging out the impression that he has feelings for Sakura for five episodes only to reveal it's a fake-out and then circle back around to "wait, no, maybe he really is in love with Sakura" in the second half seems needlessly convoluted to me.

(Then again, I'm well aware of my own bias. I'll spin any theory that makes Haruma the winner here... ;)

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 12th, '13, 23:23

From the preview, we can see Rintaro confronting Hiroto and with other stuff about fake dating, we should know if he really has feelings for Sakura.

And he might very well have been talking about his ex-girlfriend and the place he can't reach her is Heaven.

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Post by noyroc » May 16th, '13, 07:10

I was starting to really see the complaints that people had with the last few episodes. I kind of blindly went into it, loving every minute of Miura Haruma because I'm such a big fan. But EP5 was a turning point tbh. Story wise, I felt like it was very strong and plot has picked up for sure.

I loved this whole episode! No complaints!

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Post by FOM » May 17th, '13, 20:44

SO. Looks like things are starting to come to a head here. Excited for the subs to fill in a few details (particularly in those two conversations between Hiroto and Rintaro), but overall it seems like a lot of things are getting interesting. (And I’m going to kill something if Haruma doesn’t get to be happy in the end. I can’t stand to see him sad…even just his “slightly disappointed” face makes my heart ache… ;)

A few scattered reactions to episode 6:
So Chiyoko and Hiroto are step-siblings, apparently—at least I’m pretty sure that’s what “giri no imoto” implies. So probably not blood related, which makes some of their interactions (i.e. "that scene") a little less creepy...

I love the moment when all their paths collide on the sidewalk outside the cafe—Chiyoko staring at Rintaro with his hand on Sakura’s arm, Rintaro meeting eyes with Hiroto across the patio. Oh, the drama! Such fun. ;)

For the first time, I'm actually getting a little interested in Miki's story. (And no, not just because of pretty-host-guy. Though he is a plus. ;) Seems like she's finally stopped just letting herself be put-upon and started trying to figure out what she wants out of her life for her own reasons. It's nice to see that character moving somewhere.

Hiroto’s finally coming clean with Sakura! Can’t wait to see how that turns out… ;)

Re. last shot of the ep7 preview: WHAT??? Wait, why did that happen?? Dammit, I HATE this show. I wish I could just watch the last episode first so I could know where it’s going to end up. I don’t like my romantic comedies to be unpredictable, at least on the subject of who’s supposed to end up with whom. Seems to me that completely defeats the purpose…argh…

On a side note, I’m developing a new pet-peeve: That creepy squawking noise that turns up in the soundtrack (of other dramas as well) every time there’s some kind of comedically-sexy scene/incident. It’s neither funny nor sexy, and it freaks me out…lol…
When all is said and done, I think the real takeaway of this episode for me is this: Never let a man buy you shoes. No way someone who wears sneakers every day of her life made it through an afternoon in those four-inch pumps without breaking an ankle. You need a license to drive those things…

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 17th, '13, 23:58

I'm pretty sure Hiroto won't be unhappy in the end. He just won't be with Sakura.

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Post by FOM » May 18th, '13, 00:33

12bucklemyshoe wrote:I'm pretty sure Hiroto won't be unhappy in the end. He just won't be with Sakura.
(*sigh*) I know. But the way things are going that will still fall under the heading of "disappointed" -- both for me and him... ;)

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 18th, '13, 01:24

FOM wrote:
12bucklemyshoe wrote:I'm pretty sure Hiroto won't be unhappy in the end. He just won't be with Sakura.
(*sigh*) I know. But the way things are going that will still fall under the heading of "disappointed" -- both for me and him... ;)
lol. But he's better off with someone who's sexually attracted to him. Sakura always finds a reason to avoid kissing him or sleeping with him. If my guess is right, it she does eventually kiss or sleep with him, it''ll be because she's running away from her feelings for another guy. But their storyline is quite chaste so it might never get that far.

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Post by FOM » May 18th, '13, 02:27

12bucklemyshoe wrote:lol. But he's better off with someone who's sexually attracted to him. Sakura always finds a reason to avoid kissing him or sleeping with him. If my guess is right, it she does eventually kiss or sleep with him, it''ll be because she's running away from her feelings for another guy. But their storyline is quite chaste so it might never get that far.
I haven't really gotten the impression that she's not attracted to him -- more like she's skittish, insecure (about her age/appearance), and out of practice. I think the strongest argument to be made in Rintaro's favor is that she's comfortable with him in a way that she isn't with Hiroto, not that she's necessarily more physically attracted to him than she is to Hiroto. To someone like Sakura, that comfort might ultimately be more desirable in a relationship than whatever combination of attraction and affection she feels for Hiroto.

Ultimately though, the conclusion is the same -- if she's attracted to Hiroto but in love with somebody else, a physical encounter between Sakura and Hiroto will probably bring that into focus. And if that's the case, then I agree that Hiroto is better off being with someone who both wants and loves him. I just don't want that to be the case... ;)

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 18th, '13, 03:38

I think she was skittish/insecure at the beginning. But lately, something always happens which leads me to conclude that she doesn't really want to be with him physically. I could be proven wrong in the next episode.

It's like she loves the idea of being in a relationship with an attractive, young man but when push comes to shove, she shies away from making it more intimate because deep down, she's not really into him.

Nothing has led me to believe she's physically attracted to Rintaro so far. lol.

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Post by FOM » May 18th, '13, 04:07

12bucklemyshoe wrote:I think she was skittish/insecure at the beginning. But lately, something always happens which leads me to conclude that she doesn't really want to be with him physically. I could be proven wrong in the next episode.

It's like she loves the idea of being in a relationship with an attractive, young man but when push comes to shove, she shies away from making it more intimate because deep down, she's not really into him.
That's a good point -- I can definitely see where you're coming from on that.
Nothing has led me to believe she's physically attracted to Rintaro so far. lol.
Lol -- I almost said the exact same thing. If she is attracted to him, she's doing a damn good job of hiding it... ;)

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Post by Issy » May 18th, '13, 17:17

ummm, I really don't know what to write about this drama except that week by week I am yawing more and more while watching. I am not even dling now as I normaly do with all Naohito dramas...

I just need to make one or two points (probably as my last in this thread). I see some confusion between being a Haruma fan and his character in the drama. well, that's probably is the case with being biased for an actor where you don't see any week points in his/her character and him or her are probably the BEST character of the drama...

I keep reading post that people can't really see Hiroto's sad eyes and their darling Haruma has to end up with sakura and I am trying hard since ep to see anything deserving of him to win the girl. I don't even want Rintaro end up with Sakura at the moment because I'll feel sorry for him for having to put up with someone like her.

as for chemistry, characters smiling to each other and looking cute together is not chemistry. they have to click with each other and sometimes you see something more than just acting in there...honestly, there was more chemistry between Sakura and Rintaro bickering and fighting eachother than all lovy dovy moments between her and Hiroto. why? because it feels those two are more comfortable acting apposite each other...

I wrote in my early posts that I think there is more into this drama than just ordinary love story of younger and older couple but it seems it had nothing more to add.
ps. I didn't expect too much of this drama from very beginning and still disappointed me...
if only I was into Haruma's look, eyes, smiles I might have enjoyed it. oh we...
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Post by MaiKitty » May 18th, '13, 17:36

I want Chiyoko and Hiroto to end up together. Don't really see the sparkles between Hiroto and Sakura and even if I'm not sure if there will be something between them, I think Sakura and Rintaro are the better couple. I'm not really invested in either couple, though. I think Mikis story is kind of my favourite so far. I want her to take her children and leave that house forever. Let her precious hubby become happy in a threesome with Shima and his mom. I have lost all sympathy for him when he told her she was naive and stupid for being a housewife all her life, while at the same time asking for seconds. How thick can you get? Even though Nene and Yusuke played Mother and Son before I have to say I see chemistry between the two of them. I also like both actors a lot. They should built a company and be happy ! :idea:
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Post by Ethlenn » May 18th, '13, 18:30

Issy wrote: as for chemistry, characters smiling to each other and looking cute together is not chemistry.
EXACTLY!!

When I was ready to drop this drama, Yusuke appeared and - at least I want to believe - his character is that of a con-artist. I believe my own theory he approached Miki for a dark, dirty and criminal reason. I need some character in this drama, not origami figurines.

I'm not a fan of either of main cast, not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing in watching drama, so I can root for anything that makes sense. And in this drama nothing makes sense so far. I'm a sucker for older woman/younger guy stories so I expected something nice, something of any substance. Right now we have misogynistic Rintaro who changes his mind whenever he's confronted with people saying sth different, we have Hiroto who is as colorful as blank sheet of paper, Miki who is the only person I can feel any sympathy for, that nymphomaniac one I never bothered to learn her name who started to think over her life and habits because of few words from horny and cheating husband of her friend, we have Chiyoko who is nothing but sasaeng (forgive my Korean, an overly attached stalker fan) of Rintaro and Sakura who is a disgust of a woman with one quality - honesty.

As Issy said, there is no chemistry at all between Hiroto and Sakura. For me quirky fighting between her and Rintaro proves they are comfy as friends but not necesarily attracted physically to each other.

I bet Hiroto won't say what he's been lying to Sakura about.

And that accidental Sakura - Rintaro kiss. please, that's good in teen drama, and if anyone fangirls seeing this - time to do your homework, mkey?

This drama is exactly like sakura - nice, pinky flower but inedible fruits. From the practical (=watching plesures) this drama is pretty but useless.
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Post by kathia_sophia » May 18th, '13, 22:11

This drama is the first drama I spot in a while that ratings didn't drop since the Pilot Episode. Very very unusual this days, and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

So far this is what it looks like:


(01) 13.3% – (02) 14.4% – (03) 14.4% – (04) 14.5% – (05) 14.9% – (06) 15.0%

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Post by seirin » May 19th, '13, 01:00

MaiKitty wrote:I want Chiyoko and Hiroto to end up together.
Let's not go there. Blood related or not, they're still siblings. That's just gross.

As for Sakura being a disgusting woman. I don't see what's wrong. Not every woman is a lady. Not every woman is perfect. There are clumbsy ones too. Even Hotaru is kind of disgusting in that case. She leaves her food, beer cans and chips lying around everywhere. Her clothes are all over her room and living room. Her clothes are lying around all dirty too. She sleeps on the deck with newspaper as a blanket like a homeless person. It's okay for Hotaru cuz she's in her 20's doing that? But not okay for a person in their 40's doing that? I can see Hotaru in her 30's, 40's, 50's, etc doing the same thing. People's habits don't change unless something big happens to make their life turn around or they make a conviction to change. The only difference with Hotaru was Buchou who forces Hotaru to clean up because he hates dirty places. Likewise, Rintaro or Hiroto will probably influence Sakura's habits too depending who she ends up with. After Sakura started dating Hiroto, she cleaned up her place. It's a start. Her clumsiness and old man style talking will take time to change. Like Rintaro's mother stated. She used to be like Sakura too. But she's refined now. Something needs to happen to instigate the change.
12bucklemyshoe wrote: lol. But he's better off with someone who's sexually attracted to him. Sakura always finds a reason to avoid kissing him or sleeping with him. If my guess is right, it she does eventually kiss or sleep with him, it''ll be because she's running away from her feelings for another guy.
I think Sakura is shy because she hasn't dated for awhile and not deliberately avoiding his kiss. She's just awkward at it. Regarding avoiding sleeping with him, crap happens. They were disrupted cuz Sakura's bro and his girl was doing it in her room. Then it was because of her toothache because she didn't take care of her teeth. Her teeth didn't hurt because she was trying to avoid sleeping with him. I can relate to that because it really kills when you have a toothache. I can't imagine Sakura still trying to do it with a toothache. That would be some feat.

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Post by FOM » May 19th, '13, 02:08

Issy wrote:I just need to make one or two points (probably as my last in this thread). I see some confusion between being a Haruma fan and his character in the drama. well, that's probably is the case with being biased for an actor where you don't see any week points in his/her character and him or her are probably the BEST character of the drama...

I keep reading post that people can't really see Hiroto's sad eyes and their darling Haruma has to end up with sakura and I am trying hard since ep to see anything deserving of him to win the girl.
Oh, don’t misunderstand me—there’s no confusion. For my part, I’m well aware of the weak points in this story, the characters/chemistry (Hiroto included), and the performances (absolutely Haruma Miura included). If I were watching this from an objective point of view, with no pre-existing attachments to any of the actors, I would probably be about where you are right now. In terms of what the story is actually giving us, the fact is, there’s not a really strong sense of Sakura being drawn toward either one of these guys (at least not in a permanent, let’s-get-married-and-have-kids kind of way). Rintaro seems to have something on his mind, but I can’t tell whether it has anything to do with Sakura or not. The two of them are clearly good friends and have a nice rapport, but it always seems to stop short of romance. Hiroto has only recently shown signs of actually caring about Sakura, and he’s the only person demonstrating a clear proactive desire for something at the moment, but for the first few episodes he was a complete emotional blank. Furthermore, whatever his feelings, it hard to envision a relationship between those two working in the long term. Chiyoko is clearly an insane person—and who can blame her, given that the entire point of her existence seems to be to set this story in motion? Her life’s purpose fulfilled, all she can do now is pout and glare at people resentfully. And then there’s another story somewhere in the background that I always forget about entirely, because it’s only vaguely related to the main plot (and it has that obnoxious squawking noise in it all the time… ;). Bottom line, I think the story is trying so hard to keep the audience guessing (about who’s related to whom, who has feelings for whom, who’s doing what for what reasons) that it’s gotten lost in its own sea of red herrings. If I were writing this drama, I would tear it up and start over from scratch with a greater emphasis on who the characters are and what they want, and less emphasis on trying to misdirect the audience. If I were watching it for no particular reason, I would save up the episodes until the season is over and finish it all at once, just to find out how it ends (because I hate leaving things unfinished—and I am genuinely curious whether or not they’re going to be able to make any sense out of this mess eventually).

However…

The thing is, from the beginning, I’ve been watching this for one reason and one reason only: Because I love Haruma Miura. It’s far from the best thing I’ve ever seen him in, but it’s definitely not the worst. I like watching him play a role that’s a little different from what I’ve seen him do before—finding out where he's out of his depth, and seeing where he’s improved. It would have been awesome if the story itself had turned out to be witty and clever and something I would fall in love with even if he weren’t here—but given that it hasn’t turned out to be that, I still have my one and only original reason for watching the drama to fall back on. I want to see Haruma get as much mileage out of this role as possible, because who knows how many months it will be before he’ll show up on the schedule again. I want to see him get to play jealousy and love, and I want to see him win. I don’t particularly care whether he ends up with Sakura or not except insofar as that’s what he (that is, his character) seems to want right now—so I want what he wants. If one of the guys in this story gets to play a “happily ever after” scene, I want it to be Haruma Miura.

Indeed, the fact that the writing is a mess is yet another reason why I want Haruma’s character to come out on top—because if the ending isn’t going to be particularly satisfying on its own merits no matter what the outcome, then I definitely want the actor I prefer to at least get to play the good scenes. If the writing were better and the character motivations stronger, the drama would have been able to win me over to the other side in spite of my bias. Case in point: When I first watched Hana Yori Dango, I was pretty sure I was going to hate it because I knew that the actor I vastly preferred was playing the guy who wasn’t going to get the girl. As it turned out, both the drama and the other actor (purely on the strength of his performance in that series) became favorites of mine. That drama won me over to its own point of view, in spite of my initial bias.

This one hasn’t. ;)

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Post by kangxy67 » May 19th, '13, 06:44

^ WHOA.

Are we analysing this drama/actors a bit too much...? Wouldnt it be nice to just watch it for entertainment's sake? Surely if the producer/director wanted us to think so deeply about the drama, it'd have had a more serious theme/plot.

For me, the drama was all 'WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!' at one point, but now, it's started to pick up. I'm finding it more and more interesting as it goes on. I definitely want more, even if I didnt start watching it because of the guys.
Omgggggg, the last scene of the preview of episode 7!!! Definitely want to watch what led up to that! And Miki finding out the rs between her husband and Shima. Oh dear. But gets kissed by the host! Next week sure looks juicy. :D Time for Miki to step up!

And honestly, I'm a little shocked at how far they went in the sex scene between Shima and the other host before she called for a stop. He went as far as to kissing the side of her boob before she called for a stop! Totally looked like she almost had a nip slip. Actually, on second thoughts, it's totally befitting of Shima's character. Lol. But it was on tv, and I'm sure not all audience are mature! Or I might be over-reacting idk.

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Post by FOM » May 19th, '13, 07:57

kangxy67 wrote:^ WHOA.

Are we analysing this drama/actors a bit too much...? Wouldnt it be nice to just watch it for entertainment's sake? Surely if the producer/director wanted us to think so deeply about the drama, it'd have had a more serious theme/plot.
LOL. Sorry, did I not mention that overanalyzing is my favorite hobby? (I'm also a writer/editor, so picking apart plots and characters to figure out why and how they work—or don't—is sort of part of what I do. Hard to turn it off sometimes... ;)

I'm all for watching for entertainment's sake—that's why I'm still watching. Trouble is, the part that entertains me is Haruma Miura...and I'm afraid he's going to be sad at the end...which brings us full circle to my original post... ;)

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Post by MaiKitty » May 19th, '13, 08:06

^^ I think that Shima is there to make up for the unrealistically chaste relationship between the lead three. Even that preview kiss looks like kissing your kindergarten-crush.
seirin wrote:
MaiKitty wrote:I want Chiyoko and Hiroto to end up together.
Let's not go there. Blood related or not, they're still siblings. That's just gross.
There is a reason that the authors decided that they are not blood related. And because that is the case, I don't think it is gross. It is actually quite common, too, in japanese dramas and movies. And the way Hiroto kisses her back and they quarrel on the bed.....not very sibling like to me. You may not like it, but imho it is clearly there.

I also don't think Chiyoko is insane, as FOM posted. Emotionally unstable and scarred, ok. But insane? No.
Last edited by MaiKitty on May 19th, '13, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by FOM » May 19th, '13, 08:21

MaiKitty wrote:I also don't think Chiyoko is insane, as FOM posted. Emotionally unstable and scarred, ok. But insane? No.
Sorry, I didn't mean that to be taken too literally. ;) I was just making the point that I think she's been shortchanged a bit in the character development department—I don't think she's actually supposed to be insane.

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Post by Ethlenn » May 19th, '13, 08:40

seirin wrote:She leaves her food, beer cans and chips lying around everywhere. Her clothes are all over her room and living room. Her clothes are lying around all dirty too. She sleeps on the deck with newspaper as a blanket like a homeless person. It's okay for Hotaru cuz she's in her 20's doing that?
That's exactly the examples of being disgusting. Be it a person in their 20's, 30's or 60's. And it's not OK. I'm not a clean-freak but such habits just put me off. Rintaro said Sakura forgot how to be a woman, she also forgot how to live in some decent env. Maybe for her those are natural, but we all have a personal view on dramas we watch (hence discussions), so my personal opinion is - disgusting.

And I agree that we analyze this drama waaaay too much it deserves.
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Post by Issy » May 19th, '13, 10:17

seirin wrote:She leaves her food, beer cans and chips lying around everywhere. Her clothes are all over her room and living room. Her clothes are lying around all dirty too. She sleeps on the deck with newspaper as a blanket like a homeless person. It's okay for Hotaru cuz she's in her 20's doing that?
I would say Yes! People mature as they get older. If you were a messy/dirty teenager once in your life, it doesn't mean you stayed the same now that you are older. And Of course, all type of people exist in real life.
That's why it's more ok, realistic and believable to be like Hotaru and live like her in her age (even though she's still considered dirty/messy) than be like Sakura in her age and status. The problem is sloppy writing of her character which only concentrated on full exaggeration of every thing she does. That's my problem with her character.
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Post by seirin » May 19th, '13, 19:47

Issy wrote:
seirin wrote:She leaves her food, beer cans and chips lying around everywhere. Her clothes are all over her room and living room. Her clothes are lying around all dirty too. She sleeps on the deck with newspaper as a blanket like a homeless person. It's okay for Hotaru cuz she's in her 20's doing that?
I would say Yes! People mature as they get older. If you were a messy/dirty teenager once in your life, it doesn't mean you stayed the same now that you are older. And Of course, all type of people exist in real life.
That's why it's more ok, realistic and believable to be like Hotaru and live like her in her age (even though she's still considered dirty/messy) than be like Sakura in her age and status. The problem is sloppy writing of her character which only concentrated on full exaggeration of every thing she does. That's my problem with her character.
I don't think you understand people every well if you think everyone should be clean freak and be all tidy as people grow older and that everyone has to mature. "BECAUSE IT'S A MUST". If you don't mature, you're not a human! That's not how things work.

Some people who are messy will continue to be messy. I was a procrastinator in my youth and decades later; Look! I'm still a procrastinator and I'm not in my 20's. I do have clothes lying around, but limited areas. If I was like Sakura in my teens and 20's, I'm sure I would still be like Sakura at her age. There are guys who are messy too. Have you seen some of the bachelor male rooms? Of course, not all male bachelors' rooms are disgusting but some leave much to be desired. The same could be said for females.

As an example, nurses no matter student or professional ones should be very clean. Surprise! My neighbour who does rentals asked me to help clean up an apartment after some female student nurses moved out. It was disgusting! Dried food (pasta and other unidentified items) in the kitchen drawers, animal hair thick as a blanket on the carpet. ketchup inside the fridge (and it's not in a bottle), the stove looked like it hasn't been cleaned for a whole year. Burnt fries leftover inside the oven as well as think juice/sauce stains at the bottom. cigarettes and cardboard boxes left in the balcony. Need I go on? These are female student nurses, probably 20's who are suppose to be clean and hygienic.

And regarding Hotaru. If she didn't meet Buchou, Hotaru would still be the same Hotaru when she's in her 30's, 40's into 50's and on. Hotaru only cleaned up because Buchou hates dirty places. If Buchou was not there, I can guarantee you, her apartment would be a pigsty. Hotaru changed due to a big change in her life (meeting Buchou).

In this instance, Sakura started changing because she met Hiroto. If she didn't meet Hiroto who said he wanted to see her place. Sakura's place would be a pigsty. She cleaned and threw out so much garbage that Rintaro thought she was moving. If she continues with her relationship, more of her bad habits will probably be changed as she's being influenced by her other half.

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Post by MaiKitty » May 27th, '13, 13:06

Random thoughts on the latest episode:

Why did they have to make Yusuke the typical bad boy host who cheats lonely housewives of their money? Urgh. Main story didn't go anywhere. But wait, a BIG reveal - Hiroto didn't sleep with Sakura - which we all knew anyway. (Why does it all have to be so predictable? Seen this particular cheat a thousand times and over!) Watching AV at work, as if that ever happened. And that other beautician guy does he carry his porn around in his bag or what?

I'm slowly getting really angry at Miki/Kohei/Shima storyline. I predict in the next episode Miki will forgive her husband and Shima, they will convince her that there is nothing between them. In my opinion they already cheated. Shima is less guilty as she didn't know Kohei was Mikis husband. But he basically went for it, and only stopped because of the ED. Unfortunately Miki has no choice but to stay with him. I hate this. I feel really bad for her.
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Post by FOM » May 27th, '13, 22:02

MaiKitty wrote:But wait, a BIG reveal - Hiroto didn't sleep with Sakura - which we all knew anyway. (Why does it all have to be so predictable? Seen this particular cheat a thousand times and over!)
Yeah, Hiroto's reveal came as a surprise to me only because I had totally forgotten that Sakura didn't already know they hadn't slept together... ;)

Also, the accidental kiss -- really? Come on, even when they pulled that trick in Hana Yori Dango they undercut it with a "this isn't a shojo manga" joke. I don't mind that kind of cliche when it's self-mocking, but you can't expect us to take it seriously as a plot development. When I saw it in the episode preview I assumed it would have something more too it than it looked like -- but nope. Just your boilerplate plot device. Disappointing.

In terms of the love triangle, it's looking like I've bet on a loser again. ;) Oh well. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em, right? I suppose the silver lining is that when Sakura eventually chooses Rintaro, that will leave Hiroto free. What do you suppose I would have to do to get Haruma Miura to come to my apartment, take off his shirt, and make me pasta...?

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Post by seirin » May 29th, '13, 22:47

FOM wrote: In terms of the love triangle, it's looking like I've bet on a loser again. ;) Oh well. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em, right? I suppose the silver lining is that when Sakura eventually chooses Rintaro, that will leave Hiroto free. What do you suppose I would have to do to get Haruma Miura to come to my apartment, take off his shirt, and make me pasta...?
It's not over until the fat lady sings. Hiroto is making a lot of big changes to himself. He seems to have the most growth in this drama. It's time Sakura grew up too and stop being so shy and inconsiderate. I realize her friends are important, but Hiroto is her BF. She should treat him just as important. I just hope no matter what happens, Hiroto will continue to improve himself rather than slump back to his old lifestyle of just finding sex partners to sleep with and doing hard labour. BMX career has it's limits as he ages.

Although people are stereotyping about how she should act as a female. She's also stereotyping herself that since she's older, she should be as knowledgeable as Hiroto and watches pron. She should know when to accept she's lacking in knowledge in certain areas. Sakura needs a lot of growing up. I don't think Rintaro has the ability to influence her as Hiroto. She's known Rintaro for so long and haven't changed, whereas she actually cleaned her room when she started seeing Hiroto. I have to admit, she kind of fails when she tried to act like a lady. I'm not sure if Rintaro can turn her into a lady.

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Post by 12bucklemyshoe » May 31st, '13, 01:10

kathia_sophia wrote:This drama is the first drama I spot in a while that ratings didn't drop since the Pilot Episode. Very very unusual this days, and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

So far this is what it looks like:


(01) 13.3% – (02) 14.4% – (03) 14.4% – (04) 14.5% – (05) 14.9% – (06) 15.0%
(07) 15.7% – (08 ) 14.8%

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Post by seirin » Jun 3rd, '13, 22:38

12bucklemyshoe wrote:
kathia_sophia wrote:This drama is the first drama I spot in a while that ratings didn't drop since the Pilot Episode. Very very unusual this days, and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

So far this is what it looks like:


(01) 13.3% – (02) 14.4% – (03) 14.4% – (04) 14.5% – (05) 14.9% – (06) 15.0%
(07) 15.7% – (08 ) 14.8%
I think ep 9 ratings will pick up. There's some hot scenes in the next ep LOL

After ep 8, I'm totally rooting for Hiroto. He's come a long way from ep 1 and I like how he showed Sakura his REAL sensitive side and realizes his short comings as well, but he's willing to work on it. I give Hiroto A for effort.

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Post by seirin » Jun 9th, '13, 15:34

After ep 9, I'm really questioning why people think Rintaro is compatible with Sakura. Rintaro is so clueless. I don't think he would make a good father at all. He wouldn't even notice if his kids had problems. He just realized Ken was gay? O_o. I felt vibes from Ken that he was gay when he first appeared. I just didn't want to label him without him admitting it. And it took so many people to notice Rintaro liked Sakura. Since everyone says he does, he must love Sakura then O_o Can we say completely clueless?
I really have more sympathy for Hiroto whose trying very hard to change and Sakura for slowly changing and accepting her age and herself when she is with Hiroto.

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Post by FOM » Jun 9th, '13, 17:26

seirin wrote:After ep 9, I'm really questioning why people think Rintaro is compatible with Sakura. Rintaro is so clueless. I don't think he would make a good father at all. He wouldn't even notice if his kids had problems. He just realized Ken was gay? O_o. I felt vibes from Ken that he was gay when he first appeared. I just didn't want to label him without him admitting it. And it took so many people to notice Rintaro liked Sakura. Since everyone says he does, he must love Sakura then O_o Can we say completely clueless?
I really have more sympathy for Hiroto whose trying very hard to change and Sakura for slowly changing and accepting her age and herself when she is with Hiroto.
I agree with you that Rintaro being in love with Sakura for like ten years without realizing it is perhaps a bit of a stretch—but I don’t think it changes his essential compatibility with Sakura. They are and have been good friends for a long time, and they’re clearly very comfortable with each other. Moreover, Hiroto has made some mistakes of his own—the fact that he doubled-down on the lie rather than coming clean with Sakura as soon as his feelings changed, for instance. I think that showed real immaturity, and I had a feeling it was going to come back to bite him eventually. (Well, obviously it was, really—she was going to find out somehow, and if he didn’t tell her then she was going to have to find out from someone else.) Then again, Rintaro also told him to keep that a secret, so I guess they’re both idiots… ;)

Anyway, obviously I’m still rooting for Hiroto (I suppose that was never really going to change), but I’m pretty sure the drama is leading us toward Rintaro. Apart from the sheer age/phase-of-life difference, Hiroto now has this opportunity to go to America and get a few more years out of his dream career—and the look on Sakura’s face when he was holding her after she’d agreed to marry him had a slightly troubled, wistful quality, telling me she was having reservations even before she found out the truth. I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

On the plus side, the first ten minutes of this episode were awesome enough to make the whole series worth the bother. I may still be disappointed when she chooses Rintaro, but at least I’m not angry anymore… ;)

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Post by seirin » Jun 9th, '13, 18:46

FOM wrote: I agree with you that Rintaro being in love with Sakura for like ten years without realizing it is perhaps a bit of a stretch—but I don’t think it changes his essential compatibility with Sakura. They are and have been good friends for a long time, and they’re clearly very comfortable with each other. Moreover, Hiroto has made some mistakes of his own—the fact that he doubled-down on the lie rather than coming clean with Sakura as soon as his feelings changed, for instance. I think that showed real immaturity, and I had a feeling it was going to come back to bite him eventually. (Well, obviously it was, really—she was going to find out somehow, and if he didn’t tell her then she was going to have to find out from someone else.) Then again, Rintaro also told him to keep that a secret, so I guess they’re both idiots… ;)

Anyway, obviously I’m still rooting for Hiroto (I suppose that was never really going to change), but I’m pretty sure the drama is leading us toward Rintaro. Apart from the sheer age/phase-of-life difference, Hiroto now has this opportunity to go to America and get a few more years out of his dream career—and the look on Sakura’s face when he was holding her after she’d agreed to marry him had a slightly troubled, wistful quality, telling me she was having reservations even before she found out the truth. I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

On the plus side, the first ten minutes of this episode were awesome enough to make the whole series worth the bother. I may still be disappointed when she chooses Rintaro, but at least I’m not angry anymore… ;)
I don't think Hiroto ever wanted Sakura to find out about his initial intentions. He didn't want to leave her with a bad impression of him since he already has so many things he needed to change about himself. Maybe after they were married, he would tell her.

As for Sakura's face. She's a very understanding person. She knows Hiroto is young. He has his whole life ahead of him so she doesn't want to tie him down. When he told her he wanted to have kids with her, she was really touched and cried. He would give up his dream to be with her. I think the look on her face was happiness. If you looked at her after at the Salon, she was glowing with happiness. She finally found someone who accepted and wanted to be with her. She said she was happy and comfortable about her age (before she felt she was getting old).

After Chiyoko told Sakura about their plot, Sakura was plummeted from heaven to hell. She thought she finally found someone who accepted her just to find out it was all a farce and she's just an old maid after all. Why would a young guy or any guy at all be interested in her? Chiyoko is just an evil conniving **** who I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. She had a chance to get plastic surgery, yet she refused and held Hiroto accountable for her injury for the rest of his life so he would be her slave. She ruins Hiroto's happiness because she claims "I won't forgive you for being happy". That's all the more I wish Hiroto got his happiness even if it's just to spite Chiyoko.

I would be angry if she chose Rintaro now. I don't think it takes over 10 years to realize you love someone, and you didn't realize it on your own even. Everyone around you had to tell you that and you were the last to know? I kind of feel like it's peer pressure. Everyone around you says you like someone, so you assume you must like that person too. If nobody around him said anything, he wouldn't even realize it even to his death bed. That really says how clueless he is. It could be any woman, if everyone around him says so, it must be true. I just can't accept that as true love.

For me, true love is willing to risk everything to be with that person and not because of age, looks or money. Sure, Hiroto fails in age and money compared to Rintaro. But Hiroto excels in risking his dream for her and finding a steady job. They might not have the most comfortable life together, but I'm sure they would be happy.

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Post by FOM » Jun 9th, '13, 19:58

seirin wrote:I don't think Hiroto ever wanted Sakura to find out about his initial intentions. He didn't want to leave her with a bad impression of him since he already has so many things he needed to change about himself. Maybe after they were married, he would tell her.

...

For me, true love is willing to risk everything to be with that person and not because of age, looks or money. Sure, Hiroto fails in age and money compared to Rintaro. But Hiroto excels in risking his dream for her and finding a steady job. They might not have the most comfortable life together, but I'm sure they would be happy.
I’m sure Hiroto didn’t want Sakura to ever find out about his initial lie, but that’s exactly the point—grownups don’t base lifetime commitments on false pretenses. (Or at least they shouldn’t.) When he became serious, he should have told her the truth about himself rather than immediately trying to cover his tracks. If he had indicated that he planned to tell her eventually when the time was right, it might have seemed a little less childish, but as it is he seemed to just want to make the whole thing disappear and pretend he’d been sincere from the start so he wouldn't lose her. That was a selfish choice, and not a great foundation for a marriage.

As for the shifting balance of the triangle, there are many different kinds of love, even many different kinds of romantic love—and although this drama takes its title from a fairytale, I think at its core it’s intending to explore a more down-to-earth version of love than “true love.” I love a good “willing to risk your life for love” kind of story (I’m sure I’ve mentioned it here before, but Hana Yori Dango is one of my favorites… ;), but the reality is that most love isn’t like that. People have to make choices in life and prioritize certain things over other things, and sometimes a love that is real just isn’t practical. Moreover, a love based on mutual compatibility and longtime friendship can be just as real as (if not more real than) a love full of romantic gestures and dramatic sacrifices. Personally, I wouldn’t put either of these relationships in the “true love” category. To me, true love has a sort of cosmic, destined for each other, can’t imagine ever being with anyone else kind of connotation, and that’s not the kind of story this is. While Hiroto’s feelings for Sakura are passionate (and I believe they’re real), they may or may not be permanent. Sakura is definitely smitten, but like I say, I’m not sure she’s confident she could spend the rest of her life with him, and I think she feels guilty being the reason for him to give up his dream, no matter what he says. Not to mention the fact that even if he’s sure this is what he wants right now, that feeling might change further on down the line, when he fully realizes what he’s given up. Sakura has the life perspective to see that coming better than he does at this point. As for Sakura and Rintaro, well, they’re comfortable together—not just financially, but personally. That’s part of love too. It’s not as exciting as giving up everything to be with someone, but it usually makes more practical sense in the long run. (And at least in real life, it’s probably more likely to lead to happiness.)

In general, I tend to look at these things on two levels: in terms of what I want to happen, and in terms of what the writer is telling me is going to happen. It’s great when those two levels agree, but that’s not always the case. I still want Sakura to choose Hiroto because I like him better, but if we were really going with what I want to happen we’d have to back up a few episodes and do some rewriting. As for what the writer is telling me, well…I think both you and I had better brace ourselves. ;)

And poor Chiyoko—I blame the writer for her. Nearly done with the series, and she’s still little more than a twisted plot device…

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Post by Anon. » Jun 9th, '13, 20:16

I must be one of the few hoping (in vain, I realize that) that the 'prince' would be Rintaro.

I don't really think Rintaro's been in love with Sakura for ten years. They've been apart for some great period of time before the drama starts, correct? I believe that before that, Sakura was just a close friend, someone to have drinks with. Rintaro has almost specifically stated that he was young, immature and superficial when he was 24...granted, that's a little longer than ten years, but it's close enough. Sakura wasn't even on his radar.

Continuing on, I don't really find the fact that Rintaro likes Sakura as much of a stretch. Hiroto only started dating Sakura not because he was attracted to her but because his sister-in-law asked him to. After he started dating her, he gradually fell for her because of her actions. These are not the same antics that Rintaro has previously witnessed. The main reason that Rintaro didn't realize his feelings is because he didn't view her as a woman. The moment the 24-year old came into the picture, that all changed because (a) Sakura's actions were much more feminine and (b) he was going to lose her.

This sparked a change. The actions of Sakura after she started being serenaded by Hiroto are what caused Hiroto to fall in love with her and what deepened Rintaro's feeligns...that's what I believe.

I'm really hoping that Sakura and Rintaro will be endgame...but every single hint points in the opposite direction. :/

1) The actor that plays Hiroto is listed as the second lead followed by Rintaro's actor. (Before I'm called on this being a superfluous reason, I can't recall a single drama where this setup proved false. Tsuki no Koibito and Kekkon Dekinai Otoko to name a couple).
2)The prince of Cinderella puts on the glass slipper. He's wearing white...(up until episode 7 anyways), the only person shown in white is Hiroto.
3) Couples aren't allowed to be 'neat' in jdramas. Tsuki no Koibito, Kekkon Dekinai Otoko, Konkatsu, Sapuri...the list goes on. There's always one-two unrequitted loves. In this case, the sister-in-law and Rintaro. I don't believe it'd work with Hiroto and the sister-in-law because I'm pretty sure Hiroto has some romantic feelings for her (or what could develop into it). While Rintaro will never date the sister-in-law, it's possible that Hiroto might. It's legal in Japan, from what I remember.

None of these reasons are concrete, but they fall in line with the mold of practically every romantic jdrama I've seen. The only one that could possibly break the mold would be Ninkyo Helper and even that had an ambiguous ending with

Hikoichi being kissed by the female lead and then going off to visit the dying second lead.
I actually dislike Hiroto a lot (I'm definitely one of the few or the only here), so it's disappointing for me. :/ But I love Shinorhara Ryoko, so I'm going to continue to watch, if only for her sake.

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Post by seirin » Jun 9th, '13, 20:25

FOM wrote: I’m sure Hiroto didn’t want Sakura to ever find out about his initial lie, but that’s exactly the point—grownups don’t base lifetime commitments on false pretenses. (Or at least they shouldn’t.) When he became serious, he should have told her the truth about himself rather than immediately trying to cover his tracks. If he had indicated that he planned to tell her eventually when the time was right, it might have seemed a little less childish, but as it is he seemed to just want to make the whole thing disappear and pretend he’d been sincere from the start so he wouldn't lose her. That was a selfish choice, and not a great foundation for a marriage.
I would like to believe he would tell her eventually. But the timing isn't right yet. Like I said, he still has a lot of other things to change about himself first. He did tell her he didn't sleep with her the night they meet. At least that was one lie off his list. He broke up with Momo, his second thing to check off the list. He's giving up BMX and trying to get a job. Third thing to check on his to-do list. There's probably more on his to-do list we don't know about.
FOM wrote: As for the shifting balance of the triangle, there are many different kinds of love, even many different kinds of romantic love—and although this drama takes its title from a fairytale, I think at its core it’s intending to explore a more down-to-earth version of love than “true love.
That's the thing. Some people just want to get married so badly, they'll just settle for the first thing that comes their way. Compatible age? check. Financially stable? check. Maturity? check. Okay, time to get married. Their life would be boring and it doesn't mean they'll be happy with each other. It's just because it's "the thing to do". Right now, Sakura has a choice. She can choose someone who is willing to risk everything for her and truly loves her. Or marry and shackle herself into a dull boring life because it's comfortable. Many people don't find their romance partners or true love, so they end up marrying whoever is convenient. But given the choice, I think many would prefer true love over convenience. Otherwise, why call this a Cinderella story is she doesn't find true love? I can't really say Sakura was just as clueless at Rintaro who doesn't realize she loves Rintaro for the past 10 years. Sakura doesn't even consider Rintaro a friend when Shima says she's lucky to have such a good friend as Rintaro. To finally jump from realization that they're not enemies to being friends to being lovers in 2 episodes is a bit of a stretch. I think at most, it would go from being enemies to realizing they are good friends within 2 episodes is doable. Nobody around them has seem them as a couple. They know Sakura doesn't even see Rintaro in such a way.

It's like in dramas where guys marry rich girls so they can have money. In the end, they have money, but are they happy? I'm not saying all marriages of convenience are bad, but I think some are far from stellar.
FOM wrote: And poor Chiyoko—I blame the writer for her. Nearly done with the series, and she’s still little more than a twisted plot device…
The writer wrote Chiyoko as mentally unstable with no redeeming factors. Maybe the writer might have Chiyoko patch Hiroto and Sakura up to redeem herself? Otherwise, I can't see any redemption for her. She's like a lost cause even up to ep 10.

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Post by FOM » Jun 9th, '13, 21:27

Anon. wrote:I must be one of the few hoping (in vain, I realize that) that the 'prince' would be Rintaro.

I don't really think Rintaro's been in love with Sakura for ten years. ... The main reason that Rintaro didn't realize his feelings is because he didn't view her as a woman. The moment the 24-year old came into the picture, that all changed because (a) Sakura's actions were much more feminine and (b) he was going to lose her.
Oh, I don’t think you’re hoping in vain—I’m pretty sure Rintaro is poised to win this race.

Re. the ten years estimate: Rintaro’s ex implied in their conversation (I think) that part of the reason she’d left him in the first place was because she was jealous of his friendship with Sakura, and she suspected even back then that he was really in love with her. So it seems his unacknowledged feelings for her have been around for a long time. And the “didn’t view her as a woman” thing—actually, that’s one of the things that really bothers me about Rintaro. He didn’t see her as a woman until she was wearing four-inch-heels and a miniskirt? Give me a break. Hiroto fell in love with her after a series of dates on which she was wearing weird combinations of sweatshirts, overcoats, and sneakers, but Rintaro (who’s known her for something like a decade) didn’t even view her as a woman until she was pretending to be feminine to impress his mother. What century is he living in? (*sigh*)


Anon. wrote:I'm really hoping that Sakura and Rintaro will be endgame...but every single hint points in the opposite direction. :/

1) The actor that plays Hiroto is listed as the second lead followed by Rintaro's actor. (Before I'm called on this being a superfluous reason, I can't recall a single drama where this setup proved false. Tsuki no Koibito and Kekkon Dekinai Otoko to name a couple).
2)The prince of Cinderella puts on the glass slipper. He's wearing white...(up until episode 7 anyways), the only person shown in white is Hiroto.
3) Couples aren't allowed to be 'neat' in jdramas. Tsuki no Koibito, Kekkon Dekinai Otoko, Konkatsu, Sapuri...the list goes on. There's always one-two unrequitted loves. In this case, the sister-in-law and Rintaro. I don't believe it'd work with Hiroto and the sister-in-law because I'm pretty sure Hiroto has some romantic feelings for her (or what could develop into it). While Rintaro will never date the sister-in-law, it's possible that Hiroto might. It's legal in Japan, from what I remember.
LOL—that’s interesting. I would have said the exact same thing in reverse. To be specific:

1) Fair point—but the “guy who gets the girl” isn’t always listed as the second lead either (see Anego, for instance. Or Zettai Kareshi, where the two male leads are listed first, and the female lead comes third…). Sometimes the second lead is another character who has a story separate from the romance, or sometimes the listings reflect a plot structure other than a straight-up romance. Whether Hiroto ends up with Sakura or not, he’s definitely a lead character in this drama, and has his own story and character journey going.

2) The opening credits have been ambiguous throughout, shifting slightly to reflect the content of each episode. Hiroto may be the prince, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to be the one she ends up with. This is a fractured fairytale we’re dealing with, not a straightforward adaptation.

3) No matter which way it goes, this is a messy couple—somebody is going to be the odd man out. If we’re looking to j-drama clichés for clues, then I’d point to the bickering between Sakura and Rintaro, the accidental kiss between Sakura and Rintaro, the absolute refusal to acknowledge an obvious chemistry between Sakura and Rintaro...

I’m rooting for Hiroto hands down, but I think all the signs point to Rintaro. Guess we’ll find out soon, eh? ;)

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Post by FOM » Jun 9th, '13, 21:55

seirin wrote:That's the thing. Some people just want to get married so badly, they'll just settle for the first thing that comes their way. Compatible age? check. Financially stable? check. Maturity? check. Okay, time to get married. Their life would be boring and it doesn't mean they'll be happy with each other. It's just because it's "the thing to do". Right now, Sakura has a choice. She can choose someone who is willing to risk everything for her and truly loves her. Or marry and shackle herself into a dull boring life because it's comfortable. Many people don't find their romance partners or true love, so they end up marrying whoever is convenient. But given the choice, I think many would prefer true love over convenience. Otherwise, why call this a Cinderella story is she doesn't find true love? I can't really say Sakura was just as clueless at Rintaro who doesn't realize she loves Rintaro for the past 10 years. Sakura doesn't even consider Rintaro a friend when Shima says she's lucky to have such a good friend as Rintaro. To finally jump from realization that they're not enemies to being friends to being lovers in 2 episodes is a bit of a stretch. I think at most, it would go from being enemies to realizing they are good friends within 2 episodes is doable. Nobody around them has seem them as a couple. They know Sakura doesn't even see Rintaro in such a way.

It's like in dramas where guys marry rich girls so they can have money. In the end, they have money, but are they happy? I'm not saying all marriages of convenience are bad, but I think some are far from stellar.
See, my point is that there’s a whole lot of gray area between the extremes of the 100% pragmatic “marriage of convenience” and “true love.” (To be honest, I don’t really believe in “true love” in the soul-mate sense as a thing that exists in real life—I think love is a fluid thing, and most individuals are capable of finding many different kinds of happiness with many different people depending on. What kind of happiness you choose and find most fulfilling has a lot to do with other factors in your life and the lives of people around you. But that’s real life, not fiction…) I don’t at all think that if Sakura married Rintaro it would be purely a marriage of convenience—if she wanted that, there’s a well-oiled omiai industry in Japan to help her find it. I think she wants kids, but she also seems comfortable with her life as it is. She doesn’t seem desperate to be married, but I think she would like to be married to somebody who makes her happy—and while a whirlwind romance is fun to watch in a drama, not everyone can or would want to live that way in real life. Romance is exhausting, and tends to burn out quickly. A comfortable and undramatic relationship might seem boring from the outside, but it can be very fulfilling from the inside. And marrying someone you’re comfortable with is not the same thing as marrying by checklist. It’s not just about sizing up someone’s statistics and deciding they look good on paper so you’d better get hitched. A comfortable relationship means being with someone who makes you laugh, who can read your moods and knows how to navigate them, who’s willing to tell you when you’re making an ass of yourself, and who might grumble a bit when you forget to replace the toilet roll for the thousandth time but basically accepts you as you are, warts and all. And frankly, Rintaro isn’t exactly Daddy Warbucks on the marriage-of-convenience scale—his selling point is the fact that he and Sakura are close and comfortable with each other as people, which is ultimately the best any couple can hope to be left with after the novelty of romance burns away. And who knows, Sakura and Hiroto might get there eventually too—but the fact is, there’s still a lot they don’t know about each other at this point. And Hiroto still has some growing up to do. Not because he doesn’t have a job, but because on a fundamental level he’s still thinking like a kid. He’s still figuring out who he is, and who he wants to become. It’s not his fault—he just hasn’t lived as long as Sakura has yet.

I don’t know why I’m arguing so hard for Rintaro, because I really do prefer Hiroto (I swear! ;). But I also believe in the value and intimacy of knowing someone well, even if the relationship doesn’t have a particularly dramatic face. Choosing comfort (in the interpersonal sense, not the financial sense) is not the same as settling. It’s a reward of its own, and it can be very hard to find.

(Actually, I think you could even make the argument that if Sakura were to marry Hiroto it would be a marriage of convenience—marrying someone she’s not necessarily compatible with in the long term because she can feel the clock ticking and he’s the only one who has asked her. Not that I think she doesn’t have feelings for him, but I suspect she doesn’t really want to marry him at this point just for himself. In a way, I think that by accepting his proposal, she was settling for Hiroto. Which is so sad, because he’s gorgeous… ;)

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Post by seirin » Jun 10th, '13, 00:52

FOM wrote: (Actually, I think you could even make the argument that if Sakura were to marry Hiroto it would be a marriage of convenience—marrying someone she’s not necessarily compatible with in the long term because she can feel the clock ticking and he’s the only one who has asked her. Not that I think she doesn’t have feelings for him, but I suspect she doesn’t really want to marry him at this point just for himself. In a way, I think that by accepting his proposal, she was settling for Hiroto. Which is so sad, because he’s gorgeous… ;)
Tell that to Shinohara Ryoko whose husband is way, way older than she is. With their huge age gap, is she settling? It seems like their age difference isn't rocking their marriage.

Age is but a number. It's not important in love. It's not like Sakura is marrying Hiroto for money. Sakura accepts Hiroto for himself. Even if he's unemployed and a BMX biker. She doesn't know he has a job. She's not marrying him because of his looks or convenience. I think she truly loves Hiroto and it broke her heart to hear he's been lying to her all this time and that he probably doesn't like her like she does him. The more you love someone, the deeper the heartbreak for the betrayal. If she didn't love Hiroto, her heart wouldn't be breaking by end of ep 9. If she didn't love Hiroto, she wouldn't sleep with him. She's not the type of girl to sleep with any guy that comes a long. I know it's a low blow but Sakura is not like Shima.

Like I said, it takes a catalyst to make a person change. Sakura's catalyst is Hiroto. And Hiroto's catalyst is Sakura. Sakura and Hiroto are both changing by their love for each other and both are moving forward. Rintaro... well let's say he's the same guy as ep 1 except he's realized he doesn't love his ex. It took 10 years for him to realize that. Seriously?

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Post by FOM » Jun 10th, '13, 03:02

seirin wrote:Tell that to Shinohara Ryoko whose husband is way, way older than she is. With their huge age gap, is she settling? It seems like their age difference isn't rocking their marriage.

Age is but a number. It's not important in love. It's not like Sakura is marrying Hiroto for money. Sakura accepts Hiroto for himself. Even if he's unemployed and a BMX biker. She doesn't know he has a job. She's not marrying him because of his looks or convenience. I think she truly loves Hiroto and it broke her heart to hear he's been lying to her all this time and that he probably doesn't like her like she does him. The more you love someone, the deeper the heartbreak for the betrayal. If she didn't love Hiroto, her heart wouldn't be breaking by end of ep 9. If she didn't love Hiroto, she wouldn't sleep with him. She's not the type of girl to sleep with any guy that comes a long. I know it's a low blow but Sakura is not like Shima.

Like I said, it takes a catalyst to make a person change. Sakura's catalyst is Hiroto. And Hiroto's catalyst is Sakura. Sakura and Hiroto are both changing by their love for each other and both are moving forward. Rintaro... well let's say he's the same guy as ep 1 except he's realized he doesn't love his ex. It took 10 years for him to realize that. Seriously?
I didn’t say that marrying someone who’s not the same age as you is settling—I said that marrying somebody you’re not compatible with long term (even if you love them at the moment) just because you want to have children quickly could be considered settling. I have no information about the relationship between Ryoko Shinohara and her husband, so I couldn’t begin to judge their compatibility as people—I do have information about Sakura’s relationship with Hiroto, and although I absolutely don’t think it’s impossible that they might be happy together (I’m rooting for him, remember? ;), I do think it’s a bad idea for her to marry him if she’s just accepting his proposal because he’s the only one who’s asked. That was the impression I got from her reaction in that scene, but it could be wrong. (And again, I hope it is… ;)

Chronological age is a number. Mental/emotional age is something else. Some people are ready for a quiet life in the suburbs baking cakes and knitting at eighteen, others are still deciding what they want to do “when they grow up” by the time they reach their fifties. Moreover, the same numerical age difference has a different impact depending on where in life the two participants are. If Hiroto were ten and Sakura were twenty-five, I think we’d all agree that a relationship between them would be inappropriate at best. And if Hiroto were seventy and Sakura were eighty-five, I don’t think the age difference would be the slightest issue. The bigger issue than the numerical age difference is the fact that Hiroto didn’t start thinking about marriage, children, or a steady job until he met Sakura—and while I do think those are honestly things he wants, I think he may be rushing himself to get them because he knows he’ll lose her if he doesn’t grow up faster. That’s fine if it works out, but it’s a sacrifice, and it’s one he might come to regret. I think the more important thing he’ll take away from this relationship (assuming my prediction proves correct) is the knowledge that he wants a life like that with a person like Sakura someday. When the drama started he was cold and aimless. Now he’s learned what it’s like to care for someone and want to be real with them. That will serve him well in future relationships even if things don’t work out with Sakura.

As for Sakura’s broken heart—you may be right. Maybe the lie broke her heart because she’s truly in love with him and can’t imagine her life without him. But I suspect it broke her heart more because it soothed her insecurities to have this gorgeous young guy so deeply interested in her, and she’s been flying high on the idea of being loved by him for the past few months. I think she loves him too (and I certainly don't think she's been consciously using him or anything like that), but not necessarily in a way that lasts. And this wasn’t just any lie—the lie was that he had been attracted to her purely on her own merits in the first place. No matter what he feels for her now, the initial attraction was not true, and it has an impact on how she sees herself through his eyes. (And at this point she probably doesn’t know where the lie ends and reality begins.) That would hurt anybody, whether they were actually in love with the person or not.

In short, Sakura is definitely a catalyst for change in Hiroto, and vice-versa. But the catalyst for change isn’t always the one who gets to share in the results.

(You know, I really ought to thank you for sparring with me. The more I write about this topic, the less I hate the idea of Hiroto not ending up with Sakura…lol… ;)

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Post by seirin » Jun 10th, '13, 03:59

FOM wrote: I didn’t say that marrying someone who’s not the same age as you is settling—I said that marrying somebody you’re not compatible with long term (even if you love them at the moment) just because you want to have children quickly could be considered settling. I have no information about the relationship between Ryoko Shinohara and her husband, so I couldn’t begin to judge their compatibility as people—I do have information about Sakura’s relationship with Hiroto, and although I absolutely don’t think it’s impossible that they might be happy together (I’m rooting for him, remember? ;), I do think it’s a bad idea for her to marry him if she’s just accepting his proposal because he’s the only one who’s asked. That was the impression I got from her reaction in that scene, but it could be wrong. (And again, I hope it is… ;)
Well, of course she's only getting one proposal unless someone else stands up to ask her. After all, she's only dating one person. Was it wrong for Miki to accept her husband's proposal? Miki only got proposed to once. She didn't have much of a choice. Should Sakura get proposal from 10 people or so, so she could decide and that would be her true love?
FOM wrote: The bigger issue than the numerical age difference is the fact that Hiroto didn’t start thinking about marriage, children, or a steady job until he met Sakura—and while I do think those are honestly things he wants, I think he may be rushing himself to get them because he knows he’ll lose her if he doesn’t grow up faster. That’s fine if it works out, but it’s a sacrifice, and it’s one he might come to regret. I think the more important thing he’ll take away from this relationship (assuming my prediction proves correct) is the knowledge that he wants a life like that with a person like Sakura someday. When the drama started he was cold and aimless. Now he’s learned what it’s like to care for someone and want to be real with them. That will serve him well in future relationships even if things don’t work out with Sakura.
I think he had to speed it up because he realizes Sakura is getting old and probably wants kids. She's asked him before if he liked children. He can wait to have kids but she can't. If he's serious about her, he has to start shaping up or else break up with her which he doesn't want to do. It's not uncommon for people to marry in their 20's. Though I don't agree to marrying at a young age but it's all about choice. Whether Hiroto's sacrifice to quit BMX for Sakura will make him regret it in the future is unknown. What he gives up now might give him bigger gains in the future. Sure he may like BMX, but he might be even happier with Sakura and their children. If he gets a job, his dad might look at him differently too and it might fix up his relationship with his family. BMX is a short lived occupation. He can't do it forever.

Whether or not Sakura and Hiroto's marriage would last or not is unknown. But if Sakura is afraid that Hiroto and her marriage wouldn't last and decides not to marry him but decides on a safer route so she doesn't get hurt is not due reason to choose Rintaro. Safer choice vs riskier choice. Sakura has to choose who she truly loves. Not the easy way out (he understands me, we are about the same age and maturity, we're more compatible so I should marry him). If Sakura realizes she actually truly loves Rintaro and chooses him, so be it. But it should be for the right reasons. No one can tell what the future holds. Life is short. You don't know what tomorrow will bring. Sakura should pick a choice she will be happy with, not how others define it (compatibility, age, maturity, understanding, etc). Sakura isn't much of a thinker anyhow. She's more an action type person. So she should go by her emotions. It's pure that way too. Thinking, calculating, measuring relationships get in the way of real emotions. It's like a check list.

As for age huge age gap to have a difference in emotional and maturity level. Ryoko's husband is 24 years older than her. Her dad was against it. She has a much bigger gap than Sakura and Hiroto. Ryoko has 2 children with her husband. It's been 8 years and their marriage still seems strong. I haven't heard any rumours about their martial problems. Who is to say Ryoko should have picked a younger man around her age? Society just thinks that way.

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Post by FOM » Jun 10th, '13, 04:42

seirin wrote:Well, of course she's only getting one proposal unless someone else stands up to ask her. After all, she's only dating one person. Was it wrong for Miki to accept her husband's proposal? Miki only got proposed to once. She didn't have much of a choice. Should Sakura get proposal from 10 people or so, so she could decide and that would be her true love?
No—I’m saying that she should only accept a proposal from someone she feels she’s likely to be happy with for a lot of years, and that she shouldn’t accept a proposal from someone she’s happy with right now but can’t honestly see herself being married to for a long time just because she thinks time is running out and she doesn’t have any other options. I infer from her reactions in the proposal scene and her various conversations with Rintaro about what she wants out of life that Rintaro fits that description better than Hiroto does. I might, however, be wrong. It all depends on what Sakura really wants—and at this moment, I think even she is still figuring that out.

seirin wrote:I think he had to speed it up because he realizes Sakura is getting old and probably wants kids. She's asked him before if he liked children. He can wait to have kids but she can't. If he's serious about her, he has to start shaping up or else break up with her which he doesn't want to do.
Exactly. My point is just that making that sacrifice now might not be the best thing for either of them in the long run. And in the end, I predict that Sakura will choose Rintaro because she believes she’ll be happier with him. Not because I think their ages match or because I like him better (not by a long shot… ;), but because I get the feeling that she feels more at home and more like her true self with him. I wish she felt that way with Hiroto instead, but I just don’t think she does.

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Post by MaiKitty » Jun 10th, '13, 07:58

Wow, you two really wrote long posts here. I think it is very simple. Even though it was all really fluffy in episode 9 between Sakura and Hiroto, they won't stay together or there will be an open end: She doesn't choose, but there is still a possibility for each Hiroto or Rintaro. As soon as Hirotos bmx pals brought up America, it was clear. He will go to America. I'm betting on it. :)
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Post by FOM » Jun 10th, '13, 08:13

MaiKitty wrote:Wow, you two really wrote long posts here. I think it is very simple. Even though it was all really fluffy in episode 9 between Sakura and Hiroto, they won't stay together or there will be an open end: She doesn't choose, but there is still a possibility for each Hiroto or Rintaro. As soon as Hirotos bmx pals brought up America, it was clear. He will go to America. I'm betting on it. :)
Yeah, I had the same thought. As soon as they mentioned the America thing I was like, "Ah, there it is. That's the ending." Not the one I wanted, but I'm satisfied with the episode-9-fluff, so it's all good. ;)

(And lol -- sorry for crowding the board...we got a little carried away... ;)

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Post by seirin » Jun 10th, '13, 14:52

FOM wrote: Exactly. My point is just that making that sacrifice now might not be the best thing for either of them in the long run. And in the end, I predict that Sakura will choose Rintaro because she believes she’ll be happier with him. Not because I think their ages match or because I like him better (not by a long shot… ;), but because I get the feeling that she feels more at home and more like her true self with him. I wish she felt that way with Hiroto instead, but I just don’t think she does.
I'm not too sure about that. She can show her true self to Rintaro because they are friends. If their relationship changes from friends to lovers, it might get awkward. Being friends is one thing, being lovers is another. It's easier to talk about things with friends. But if it's someone you like, it's a bit harder to talk to because you're afraid to show them your bad side and become self conscious (Hiroto). If they do a Rintaro and Sakura ending, there would be a lot of awkwardness in their relationship and it's going to take time to make the adjustments. Sakura suddenly realizes Rintaro isn't her enemy and is actually a good friend and that he's a guy and she is actually in love with him. I don't see how they're going to do it in 2 episodes. I guess in the previous episode when they accidentally kissed she notices him as a guy and when her friend points out he's her friend, she denies it. So 2 ep to figure out she's actually in love with Rintaro? O_o
Then all that growing up that Sakura did, she can throw it down the drain. Rintaro will accept the sloppy Sakura and she can continue dressing badly, have a messy room and act like an old man. Yup! Back to the old Sakura.


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