[Discussion] Taira no Kiyomori

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sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » May 29th, '12, 13:38

Thanks again Peggy, I have a lot to look forward to and I hope some kind soul will pick up the subbing again soon.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 3rd, '12, 05:54

Well tonight was the episode 14 complete. Iemori is so fed up with Kyomori and his careless behaviour that he states that he is going to be the heir of the clan. Quite a few of the men agree with him. Tadamori is saying nothing. Finally Kyomori gets fed up and says' I will stand down. Iemori you are the heir'. and then he stalks off to his own home. He is mad, sad and knows this is all wrong.

Then that creepy guy at court, with the strange painted on eyebrows hears about this. He has always hated Ky. and also is not terribly keen on the whole Heike clan. He calls for Iemori to visit him. He had seen Iemori do the special dance for a celebration at the court. Everyone thought it was very beautiful so he had a good excuse to invite him. Once there he plied Iemori with liquor and praised him for the dance. Then he started to work on him about being the proper heir an that he was so much better than Ky. and anyway he was the real son and should be the heir. He is really a scary guy. It would seem there is at least one more visit and he is becoming closer in his actions. Finally once he knows that Ky has stepped down properly he seduces Iemori and then lets him know that he wants the Heiki and their power and wealth to help his own clan. this totally shocks Iemori but of course it is all too late by now. Anyway he has to go with a contingent of the Heike to escort the Retired emperor to a temple some miles away. On the way back he starts imagining how thigs were when he was a little boy and how he was so close with Ky. He remember them climbing a tree and he fell and how his mother was so cross with Ky that she hit him. He is so sad about everything and he slowly falls off his horse and he just dies. It is quite a tragic scene. Now we have to wait until next week to see what will happen in ep. 15. I guess that KY will be the heir once more and I think he will begin to toe the line and get the clan in order and start his futre in changing the country as Tadamori says he has to do.
It is getting much more interesting and things are becoming a little clearer and easier to understand.

I know this is not detailed enough and when you get to see it with the subs you will certainly get a better picture of it all.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Jun 3rd, '12, 08:40

Thanks again for your kind updates. At least with these updates we can get a gist of how the story is going which is why they are so precious. I wanted to ask you about the character of Minamoto Yoshitomo of the Genji side, played by Tamaki Hiroshi, how is he getting on? Thanks very much indeed for your inputs. I am starting to lose hopes that we will get the other subs any time soon.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 4th, '12, 02:49

Well if it is the one I am thinking of, then he and Ky are probably 'frenemies' since they both dislike the way the country is being run. They have a rivalry but they don't really hate one another At least that is my feeling.He is back home now and not really doing very much but wandering around and having a drink and talking.
I feel that the drama is still setting itself up for the much more active days to come. I am still waiting to see shota appear again. I think he will be the next emperor and I like him as an actor and this time he was very odd in this character so it will be interesting.

I am not positive but I think this drama may be going on to the mysoju website. Not sure at all of this as yet.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 5th, '12, 19:31

Well I am sorry but I am wrong. None of the online sites are giving any subs for this drama. I guess it is too new yet and maybe later on someone will pick it up and it will be allowed. too bad because if ever a taiga needed subs it's this one.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 10th, '12, 07:21

Today was Ep.15. Don't read if you don't want spoiler. Tell me if I should keep on anyway. don't want to ruin your enjoyment if they come up with subs which you can get later....I have no clue how to 'hide' a spoiler. sorry. :unsure:

It still seems as though they are giving a few details but spreading them out to make a full episode.
This time at last, to my pleasure, they brought in Matshuda Shota. I love him. his face can be so inscrutable and then he has this crazy laugh after he spouts off a line or t wo of poetry or song. He plays 'crazy' better than most. He and his brother the ex Emperor are living away from the palace. almost shunted off as it were. There is unrest brewing there it seems.. Then we go to Kiyomori who is hiring a famous artist to paint a special memorial for his brother Iemori's one year memorial. So time has gone by and the Heike are in rather a chaotic state. Kiyomori is not in good favour with the clan at all. Tadomori is still hoping he will get Ky. to grow up and take charge.
Then horrors for Tadomori. The creepy guy at court who seduced Iemori comes and tells Tadamori just what had ocurred and how the Heike was in his hands because when Iemori died he was close to him and had him under his thumb. This all shocked Tadomori and his clan assistant. It made him so angry that he rushed to stop the painting at Kiyomori's house. He felt that Iemori did not deserve to be remembered as he had been a traitor to the clan and disgraced himself. There was a physical fight between father and son but Ky. still had a brush which the artist had given him to put in a few stroles and he actually dipped the brush in the blood drawn by Tadomori and painted in his brother's red lips. Father enraged but stopped by the appearance of mother who saw what Ky had done and she was pleased and emotional and Ky was so happy to see that

That is all I can remember. If there was anything else it did not stay with me.
I now think for real that the drama will get a move on with the appearance of the two royal brothers who both want to be top dog in the palace.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Jun 11th, '12, 15:30

Hi, I personally enjoy your summaries very much indeed and since we are stuck at Ep. 5 with the subbing, by the time I manage to watch all the episodes I am sure I will have forgotten many of the details. It sounds like the story is becoming really intriguing...I am so sorry to see that the share of the viewers in Japan is getting lower and lower though, I wonder why. I wonder if the US viewers are appreciating it more.
Thanks again for your inputs...I am really beginning to lose hope that we will get the subs any time soon.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 11th, '12, 22:16

It is too bad that subs are not being done for this taiga. It is a long one and the beginning episodes are not really fast moving in the story. In Japan I have a feeling that the mayor and/or people of that area where the Hieke lived are not too thrilled with the dusty aspects that are being shown on screen. People will think it is still like that and of course it is not. However, I do think that we will soon be getting into a more interesting phase because the Fujiwara brothers are beginning to step up their dislike for one another. There is going to be a struggle fo the place in the court with them I think.The Genji are also not exactly getting where they would like to be in royal favor. It is time for Kiyomori to start his upward move and get his clan back in order.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jun 19th, '12, 03:45

sunflower,

Check your PM please Peg

Peggy
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Kiyomori

Post by Peggy » Jun 19th, '12, 21:02

Well my head is spinning now with the fast and furious things that have happened with this taiga. Upheavals in the court and friction between the Fujiwara is getting intense. Kiyomori's father becomes ill and at a clan meeting he gives different things to his sons. such as his leather Chinese armour to Kiyo and his bow an arrows to another son and favourite sword and so on and so on. He makes sure that none of the older members will leave if anything happens to him. He then proclaims that Kiyomori is to be the Lord of the clan in the future. Everyone is very quiet but they all agree.
Because the Heike have rebuilt a temple and shrine they are rewarded with promotions by the court. Kiyomori is made Lord of Aki which is some distance away on the coast
area. He is very pleased and goes off to see the place. While he is gone his father dies. Now he is the clan Lord. At the court we finally see one of my favourite actors come into the Regency. It is Matsuda Shota. I love that man and he can act people right off the screen if they are not careful. He is now the Emperor and he is very calm at last but I think he may have some explosive moments with Kiyo in the future.

There is lots more but that is the main path and I can't remember how it all ended this time.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jul 3rd, '12, 18:37

Sorry to have been missing with roundups. I have had some eye surgery and had to curtail a little internet stuff. I did watch some of the next two episodes. Lots has happened. Tadamori died and made Kiyomori his heir. He has sharpened up a lot and looks cleaner and he does take charge. He had a few upsets with his wife Takiko about her upbringing of the four boys. Also about her not being as good a wife as his first one. Very upsetting but he sorted it all out and things are now much better. He even sits and listen with the boys when she plays the gayageum (?)

Then came the emperor, ex-emperor, retired emperor and whoever else was a ruler. they are all trying to decide who will be the new emperor since the young one has now died. It ended with the crazy guy being chosen. They thought he could be controlled. Wrong! He is not all that crazy but just mad that he has not been treated with the respect that he thinks he deserves. I do love Mastsuda Shota.
I am not quite sure how things will go between him and Kiyomori. They really are not friendly but I think they realize that they have to get along for the good of the country.

That is all that my eyes would let me watch. It is getting more interesting and things are becoming clearer from an historical point of view.
Hiroshi does a better recap than I do every time by the way.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Jul 10th, '12, 14:33

Thanks for your recaps Peggy, I was very sorry to read about your eye surgery and I hope you are getting better now. By what you say the role that Shota Matsuda plays sounds great and I am not surprised as he is a very good actor indeed. I found out that the character played by Tamaki Hiroshi will not be there any longer after Ep.28 and I was sorry about this. I hope to be able to catch up with all of this very soon. Happy watching!

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jul 29th, '12, 20:17

Sunglower,
I have missed too much of this drama. I hardly know what is going on at this date. I know they have had a war between clans and the emperor and ex emperor. Emperor and Kiyomori samurais have won. It has shattered families and some have died.
Evil Minister shaken to the core and even let his white bird out of the cage. He gets shot and dies outside his father's house.
father refuses to see him and sends him away. Later scene the white bird is pitifully crying and saying 'Father' and then it dies as the Father collapses and holds the bird and is weeping because he did not see his sone before he died. Very effective scene.

Kiyomori is awarded a large fief which is an area rich with agriculture and fishing. He seems OK but I fancy his personality has changed into a much stronger way of seeing the world.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Jul 30th, '12, 06:42

Hi Peggy,
thanks for your recaps and I hope you are feeling better now. There are still no signs of anyone picking up the project of subbing this drama so it seems we will have to wait a long time to be able to see it. I saw that the ratings in Japan have been going down slightly and it is a pity as I can imagine all the hard work behind this kind of drama.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jul 30th, '12, 08:00

:-) Sunflower,
Well I have not given a very good recap at all. there is so much going on and I don't know what I missed. However I think Kiyomori is beginning to look more like the Lord of a clan now. He looks the right age and he is more forceful with everyone in the clan. there are some people who seem new to me and they have died and people are distressed about it. But I don't know exactly where they fitted into the taiga.
I am going to send you a PM tomorrow if you will keep an eye out. for it. Got to get to bed now!!
Oh Yorinaga died. He was such an interesting character and so well played.

Strange the Japanese audience is dropping. The drama is getting more interesting I think. It is a very long drama and it is full of detail and lots of things do happen. I would think the Japanese people would know more about these historical people and it would interest them. Many of the places are still being looked after and temples and even houses are still in existence and looked after.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Jul 30th, '12, 20:56

Sunflower I sent the PM. I think that link is good and should work. You will probably be able to access and read the posts but maybe you would have to join and register in order to post yourself. It is free and easy to do. Good site.
Peggy

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Aug 10th, '12, 18:31

I am leaning toward leaving this taiga. I have watched as much as possible up till now but it is getting boring and very depressing. Somehow I don't think it is going to be an inspiring story about the samurai that I was expecting. One drawback is the actor playing the lead role. He is not very convincing and all the beginning episodes were so draggy and he did not put forth any great personality at all. Kiyomori was undoubtedly a very large character in the history of the Heike but the way he was shown in this taiga was not very enjoyable. I have a feeling tht in the actual history this was not a happy time and the events were not exactly joyous.

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Feather
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Post by Feather » Aug 13th, '12, 21:29

I don't know why people want a taiga story to be like a fairytale or some rpg plot :P Come on, this is an awesome drama. I'm fascinated by Heian period and this series gives a somewhat realistic depiction of the era.
Still waiting for ep 6 subs though ;p

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rootabega
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Post by rootabega » Aug 14th, '12, 03:34

Peggy, don't feel bad. I dropped this thing like a hot rock (wasn't terribly impressed from the start, particularly) after episode 10. I don't feel like getting into why right at this moment, but I have no regrets whatsoever. And you're not kidding about the depressing history. Even taking the bias of his contemporary chroniclers into account, Taira Kiyomori just became more of an arrogant, incompetent and irrelevant tool the older he got. Portray him even-handedly, you have an unwatchable "hero". Try to make him out to be better or more interesting than he was, you're twisting history to the point of breaking it into bits.
It's a no-win.
At least Ryuhei Matsuda looked real purty in his Heian wardrobe...

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Aug 14th, '12, 04:01

Thanks rootabega. I really don't care for the actor playing Kiyomori. He is not at all convincing as this struggling early samurai.

and I am not at all interested in making taigas into fairy stories I have watched too many of them not to know I am seeing Japanese dramas based on history and usually not far from actuality. I can still separate good dramas from bad and good acting from weak attempts. Only the supporting cast has any good acting.

It is not a good taiga in my opinion.

At the moment I am interested in two or three taigas from the 1990's. Takeda Shingen and Oda Nobunaga. also Mori Motonari is good. don't even have to know the cast members to enjoy a good taiga. None of them exactly 'Fairy Stories' by the way.
Last edited by Peggy on Aug 16th, '12, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Aug 16th, '12, 07:35

ahh, I only just read this. I am sorry to hear that this drama is not so convincing. I somehow figured this out by seeing that the percentages of the Japanese viewers was getting lower and lower as the show moved on. I still would like to judge for myself if some kind soul would finally pick up the project again and sub it in English, but certainly my initial enthusiasm for this has died down. I wanted to watch it mainly for a few actors that I like like Tamaki Hiroshi and Shota Matsuda but as they are not the main characters in the story I guess I am not missing much.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Aug 16th, '12, 19:01

:-) Sunflower, You have a PM... :-)

Gothamazon
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Post by Gothamazon » Sep 14th, '12, 14:59

Peggy wrote:Yanie,
I will be able to start watching this on Feb 25 on TV and it will have subs. I am looking forward because this is the second taiga of this period I have seen. This one, from the few trailers, seems to be very real and natural. At least if you can call fierce taigas 'natural'. It does look dusty and at times dark , but I think that is how it would have been. We have been seeing such colourful scenes in bright castles etc lately. Atsuhime was lovely scenery and beautiful costumes and GOU even more so. I think this new one is totally different...at least at the beginning.
Governor doesn't want his prefecture to be shown in such a 'non pleasant' way I guess.
Hi all.

I'm a total newbie here, signing up just to join the discussion on Taira no Kiyomori. I agree that it seems to be a great drama, but I only have watched the first five English-subbed episodes (may the single translator jaboze82 be healed soon, or already). I agree with how realistic this drama looks like, and it's actually a thumb up from me.

Two thumbs up, actually.

Heian period seemed to be glorious, but we know little of the life outside the palace. I think it's not far fetched to imagine life outside the palace as a bit gloomy and dusty, the way TNK depicts it.

Gothamazon
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Post by Gothamazon » Sep 14th, '12, 15:01

Peggy wrote:I don't really care too much about ratings. I have my own appreciation in my head as to whether something is good and worth watching or not so good and give it a miss.

It does make a difference however, when ratings mean whether or not the drama or film will be shown more than once and how it will be publicised. I know there have been shows that pleased me immensely but they apparently got poor ratings and were never seen again.

:unsure:
Too bad. I care a lot about this series. I don't really care about ratings, but if bad ratings prohibit NHK from producing English-subbed DVDs, then I care about the ratings. I want to buy the Eng-sub DVD so badly!

Gothamazon
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Post by Gothamazon » Sep 14th, '12, 15:06

Peggy wrote:We are up to Episode 14 here in California with the subs.
Which channel are you watching this in CA? I have TV cable here, tho I am not sure I can watch your channel. But who knows...

Gothamazon
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Post by Gothamazon » Sep 14th, '12, 15:11

Okay. Found it. It's this one, right?

http://www.ttvusa.com/taira_eng.php

Wish some ppl can alternately record and upload the Eng sub... will be very useful for me...

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Sep 15th, '12, 16:45

Sorry I have not been here for awhile so I missed your posts. I have cable and I watch Japanese things on channel NHK 480 and also 422. I was seeing Kyomori on these two channels at different times and frequently episodes ahead of what was being put on ch.480. some had subs and some did not. I have lost a lot of interest in this lately so have not followed the episodes in detail. I thought it got dull and vague and I was also rather disappointed in the shabbiness of the whole presentation. I had been looking forward to seeing the costumes of the women because the Heiians were said to know a lot about dyes and finding the most beautiful colours for clothes. Also the women wore many layers in different shades so that would have been so interesting. Did not see any of that. I can only assume that this is too early in the history for them to have had time or interest to indulge in clothing. I loved Shota of course and he always looked really spiffy in his costime. Did not care for the actor playing the lead from day one. He is not giving me any interest in the person he plays. I feel that this is a story which will end up being somewhat depressing. I like to at least feel some sympathy for one character during a taiga but this one does not arouse my feelings for some reason.

I am truly excited about a somewhat similar Korean drama which is in the early stages of the history and it is very exciting. full of action and detailed historical notes which are presented in a very vivid way. they weave a romantic interest which does not impose itself too much but it gives another dimension which seems natural. It is called Mushin god of War. On Sat. and Sun afternoon. You might try it to see what you think. It is on Channel 481
I am on Cox Cable by the way.

Gothamazon
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Post by Gothamazon » Sep 16th, '12, 06:50

Thanks a lot Peggy. Truth be told, I actually started watching TNK because of Okada Masaki. Yes, he's still very young, but he has done many impressive roles in the past. I like the way he narrated the story and his depiction of the older Yoritomo.

Since last week, I've subscribed to NHK World Premium to be able to watch TNK, starting from ep 35. Have little idea of what happened with the Taira/Heike, but since my interest is with the Genji, that's more than enough for now. But I do like Matsuyama Kenichi's portrayal of Kiyomori, at least till ep 5 (haven't seen ep 6 etc till ep 30 because of the subtitle).

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