[Discussion] Taira no Kiyomori

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[Discussion] Taira no Kiyomori

Post by yanie » Nov 27th, '11, 13:58

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The famous epic tale of the rivalry and battle between the Heike clan and the Genji clan in the Heian period.

The 51st NHK Taiga Drama focuses on the life of Taira-no-Kiyomori, who belongs to the Heike clan. Starting January 8th, Sundays, 8 PM, this drama will be based on an original script by Fujimoto Miki. So, the story will be different than the historical novel-based 10th NHK Taiga Drama, "The New Tale of Heike" (1972), which also had Taira-no-Kiyomori as the leading character (acted by Nakadai Tetsuya).

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In history, Kiyomori's birth parents are recorded as unknown. This time, NHK decided to adapt the circulating rumor/theory that Kiyomori is actually the birth son of Emperor Shirakawa.

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Cast:

Matsuyama Ken'ichi: Taira no Kiyomori (leading role / Heike)

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Tamaki Hiroshi: Minamoto no Yoshimoto (Kiyomori's rival / Genji)


HEIKE CLAN

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Fukada Kyoko: Taira no Tokiko (Kiyomori's 2nd wife)

Kato Ai: Takashina no Akiko (Kiyomori's 1st wife)

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Nakai Kiichi: Taira no Tadamori (Kiyomori's adoptive father)
Wakui Emi: Fujiwara no Muneko (Tadamori's wife ; Iemori's mother)

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Daito Shunsuke: Taira no Iemori (Kiyomori's adoptive younger brother)

Narumi Riko: Taira no Shigeko (Tokiko's sister ; Emperor Go-Shirakawa's wife)
Morita Go: Taira no Tokitada (Tokiko's brother)

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Fujiki Naohito: Saigyo (a famous Japanese poet of the late Heian)
Abe Sadao: Shinzei (an aristocratic Confucian scholar and monk, one of the chief allies of Taira no Kiyomori, particularly during the Heiji Rebellion of 1159)

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Kamikawa Takaya: Taira no Morikuni (Kiyomori's right-hand man)
Nakamura Baijaku: Taira no Iesada (Tadamori and Kiyomori's vassal)
Kato Koji: Usagimaru


GENJI CLAN
Takei Emi: Tokiwa Gozen (Yoshitomo's beloved concubine ; Yoshitsune's mother)

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Tanaka Rena: Yura Gozen (Yoshitomo's wife ; Yoritomo's mother)

Fumiyo Kohinata: Minamoto no Tameyoshi (Yoshimoto's father)

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Okada Masaki: Minamoto no Yoritomo (Yoshitomo's son)
Anne: Hojo Masako (Yoritomo's wife)


IMPERIAL COURT
Matsuda Shota: Emperor Go-Shirakawa (the 77th emperor of Japan, his reign spanned the years from 1155 through 1158)

Mikami Hiroshi: Emperor Toba (the 74th emperor of Japan, his reign spanned the years from 1107 through 1123)
Dan Rei: Fujiwara no Tamako (Emperor Toba's wife)
Ryou: Lady Horikawa (Tamako's maid)
Matsuyuki Yasuko: Fujiwara no Nariko (Emperor Toba's wife)

ARATA: Emperor Sutoku (the 75th emperor of Japan, his reign spanned the years from 1123 through 1142)

Ito Shiro: Emperor Shirakawa (Kiyomori's birth father / the 72nd emperor of Japan, his reign lasted from 1073 to 1087)

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Kazue Fukiishi: Maiko (Kiyomori's birth mother / Emperor Shirakawa's lover)
Matsuda Seiko: Gion Nyogo (Emperor Shirakawa's wife)

Yamamoto Koji: Fujiwara no Yorinaga (a noble in Heian era)

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Official Website & Trailer: http://www9.nhk.or.jp/kiyomori/

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Post by kitty10 » Nov 27th, '11, 14:27

Thanks for making the thread, yanie! I should have made it, but kinda forgot, heh.

Such a star-studded cast, I hope it lives up to expectations.
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Post by yanie » Nov 28th, '11, 06:39

Sorry I did it before you, kitty10 XD

I've subbed the latest 2-min trailer!^v^ Looks promising, so far.

English-subbed Trailer:
http://www.4shared.com/video/Q8NrVQzD/T ... __Eng.html

Non-sub Trailer:
http://www.4shared.com/video/W0s5ENdP/T ... ailer.html

Looks so dark. If I'm not mistaken, the Tairas (Heike) was considered as the evil clan, while the Minamotos (Genji) is good, right? Maybe that's why, this taiga drama seem so dark. Reminds me of Onmyoji. But then again, seem like any drama/movie sets in Heian, is always dark? I dunno abt "Yoshitsune" though, haven't watch that one.

Oh if anyone can find the high quality raw of this trailer, please let me know, I'll re-encode it with the subs :salut:

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Post by arakira » Nov 28th, '11, 20:58

Thanks for making this thread, yanie.
Been looking forward to this one ever since they announced it last year ;) and the cast got better and better. Trailer also looks promising. Hope it will live up to its potential =)

I'm still wondering how they want to pull it off to show Kiyomori in a different light like they announced at the press conference half a year ago...well showing him as a young man striving for power and moving up the ranks will be interesting...as far as I know he was mostly shown as an old man who'd gone more or less nuts, no?

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Post by Ethlenn » Nov 28th, '11, 21:13

Kiyomori was a great strategist and Heike monogatari stained his legacy a lot (it's a subjective story, to be honest). This doesn't change the fact he chose that path he was following from 1159.

I wish he ousted Fujiwara by force and changed the political system like Minamoto did. Instead he did exactly the same (I'm referring to marriage policy) as Fujiwara.
Might watch that if Ara is watching :P
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Post by Issy » Nov 28th, '11, 22:42

I am SO watching this. have been waiting for this for ages and been counting days to start. lots of my favourites names in cast list . :wub:
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Post by yanie » Nov 29th, '11, 00:22

arakira wrote:and the cast got better and better.
The cast is perfect, except for Fukada Kyoko, for me :unsure: But I hope she can prove me wrong this time.

arakira wrote:I'm still wondering how they want to pull it off to show Kiyomori in a different light like they announced at the press conference half a year ago...well showing him as a young man striving for power and moving up the ranks will be interesting...as far as I know he was mostly shown as an old man who'd gone more or less nuts, no?
Actually, this was what I'm worried about since the beginning. Maybe, they'll deviate from the history (where most of the records implies Kiyomori is a dictator), and make him simply mischevious (as the young ruffian) and simply has a different way of thinking than most people. If that's the case, I'm worried the history lovers would criticize this taiga drama.

Fortunately, I've never seen any adaptation of Heike Monogatari or any late-Heian dramas/movies, so I can definitely accept any deviation^^

In case, any of you wondering what arakira is talking about, I'll quote here what the news articles says, when this taiga drama was first announced.

Today, the title for NHK Taiga 2012 has been announced. It's TAIRA-NO-KIYOMORI. Although there was also a novel with Taira-no-Kiyomori as the lead, which is "Heike Monogatari" written by Yoshikawa Eiji, this drama will be written with an original script by Fujimoto Yuki. Kiyomori lives in the end of Heian period, 1118-1181. He is well-known in the historical records as the atrocious dictator. He has a very bad image for his viciousness in history, so people are bewildered why would NHK pick such a historical figure as the leading character? The producer and the director in the press conference today explained that while the character in the drama will be an anti-hero character, indeed, but it will be told in a totally different perspective that has never been mentioned in the historical records before. The producer said, rather than a dictator, Kiyomori is more of a mischevious ruffian, in his mind.

Kiyomori has a mysterious background as he is an orphan since childhood, he doesn't know whom his parents are. He was adopted by the head of the Taira clan, and he became the successor. In his youth, before he became a military general, he had once held control of a group of pirates in the inland sea and he became the King of Pirate of the sea. The producer said he can already clearly see an image in his head, that Kiyomori would stand on top of the tip of a sinking ship with a big sword in his hand.

The filming will start August next year. Filming locations are Hiroshima prefecture, Hyogo prefecture, mostly in the west Japan. They will cast 50 actors and actresses just for the main characters.


Ethlenn wrote:Kiyomori was a great strategist and Heike monogatari stained his legacy a lot (it's a subjective story, to be honest). This doesn't change the fact he chose that path he was following from 1159.
I'm a rookie about the Heian era, so can you please elaborate more about this? Why do you think Heike Monogatari (the novel) stained his legacy?

I've watched and read much about Sengoku and Bakumatsu era, but this drama would be my first Heian stuff :mrgreen:

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Post by kitty10 » Nov 29th, '11, 02:06

yanie wrote:The cast is perfect, except for Fukada Kyoko, for me :unsure: But I hope she can prove me wrong this time.
She is rather meh, though she's been surprisingly passable in Sengyou Shufu Tantei, so I have faint hope that she'll be all right here. I'm iffy about Matsuyama Ken'ichi though, haven't been impressed at all by what I've seen of him so far. Tanaka Rena looks kinda flat in that pic in the first post.

I can't see Fujiki playing a monk though :blink
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Post by yanie » Nov 29th, '11, 03:54

kitty10 wrote:I'm iffy about Matsuyama Ken'ichi though, haven't been impressed at all by what I've seen of him so far. Tanaka Rena looks kinda flat in that pic in the first post.
Really? I thought he has quite a good reputation as an actor. No?
I think I've only seen him once in GANTZ, and he was okay there. (just OK, probably bcoz I dislike his character in the movie)

But so far, I like what I see in the trailer, he looks great as the ruffian.

kitty10 wrote:I can't see Fujiki playing a monk though :blink
No, no. Fujiki is the poet, Kiyomori's bestfriend. Abe Sadao would be playing the monk/scholar^^

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Post by kitty10 » Nov 29th, '11, 04:02

yanie wrote:Really? I thought he has quite a good reputation as an actor. No?
I think I've only seen him once in GANTZ, and he was okay there. (just OK, probably bcoz I dislike his character in the movie)

But so far, I like what I see in the trailer, he looks great as the ruffian.
Well, I saw him in Norwegian Wood and he was utterly flat. He seems okay in the trailer, but I was more impressed by Tamaki Hiroshi, he looked much better. Would be interesting to watch how their rivalry unfolds.

yanie wrote:No, no. Fujiki is the poet, Kiyomori's bestfriend. Abe Sadao would be playing the monk/scholar^^
Eh? Saigyo was a samurai by birth but he became a monk at age 23, hence the name Saigyo ("western journey"). I know he's a famous poet but I doubt they're going to just make him a samurai without the monk part, that would be weird considering he was a monk for a good 50 years of his life.
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Post by yanie » Nov 29th, '11, 05:00

kitty10 wrote:Eh? Saigyo was a samurai by birth but he became a monk at age 23, hence the name Saigyo ("western journey"). I know he's a famous poet but I doubt they're going to just make him a samurai without the monk part, that would be weird considering he was a monk for a good 50 years of his life.
Oh, I didn't know Saigyo would become a monk too XD

Hmm... but on the relationship chart, seem like Saigyo will have a love affair with Emperor Toba's consort, which will be played by Dan Rei. Perhaps it is before he become a monk, then :mrgreen:

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Post by arakira » Nov 29th, '11, 08:12

kitty10 wrote:
yanie wrote:Really? I thought he has quite a good reputation as an actor. No?
I think I've only seen him once in GANTZ, and he was okay there. (just OK, probably bcoz I dislike his character in the movie)

But so far, I like what I see in the trailer, he looks great as the ruffian.
Well, I saw him in Norwegian Wood and he was utterly flat. He seems okay in the trailer, but I was more impressed by Tamaki Hiroshi, he looked much better. Would be interesting to watch how their rivalry unfolds.
Hehe I have kinda the exact opposite oppinion about these two, never seen a movie with Tamaki where he didn't seem flat, but he's handsome so that's okay ;).
I think Kenichi is a pretty good actor, but I'm biased since I love the guy ;) Seen about all of his movies and I gotta say I wasn't impressed by Norwegian Wood and disappointed by GANTZ so I get where you're coming from. Still think he's a perfect choice for this taiga.
But I guess I shouldn't start a discussion about actors cause we all have our different favs. Just one last remark. yanie I SO TOTALLY agree with you about Fukada Kyoko, but it's too hard to avoid her in jdrama land... :mrgreen:
On a positive note, love to see Nagai play Matsuken's Dad again - I like that pairing.
Happy to see a lot of other names on the list, too.

@Ecchan, good you're here, I'll annoy you with stupid history questions all year long in 2012 :alcoholic:

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Post by yanie » Nov 29th, '11, 08:27

arakira wrote:yanie I SO TOTALLY agree with you about Fukada Kyoko, but it's too hard to avoid her in jdrama land... :mrgreen:
I really don't understand why producers still casts her in dramas/movies :unsure:

arakira wrote:On a positive note, love to see Nagai play Matsuken's Dad again - I like that pairing.

Oh, Nakai Kiichi have played MatsuKen's dad before? :w00t: Which movie?
On a side note, this would be the 2nd time Nakai and Wakui Emi playing a married couple. (they were a married couple too, in Princess Toyotomi)

Just started reading Yoshikawa Eiji's Heike Monogatari, can't imagine Wakui Emi in the role. The mother sounds 'bitchy' in this novel :mrgreen: But perhaps, that's how the taiga drama is different^^

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Post by Issy » Nov 29th, '11, 09:16

kitty10 wrote:
yanie wrote:The cast is perfect, except for Fukada Kyoko, for me :unsure: But I hope she can prove me wrong this time.
She is rather meh, though she's been surprisingly passable in Sengyou Shufu Tantei, so I have faint hope that she'll be all right here. I'm iffy about Matsuyama Ken'ichi though, haven't been impressed at all by what I've seen of him so far. Tanaka Rena looks kinda flat in that pic in the first post.

I can't see Fujiki playing a monk though :blink
I am watching this because of Matsuken in the first place. :P His character in Zeni Geba made me addicted to him so badly.
I think the samecthing about Fukada Kyoko's casting like yanie and ara-chan. she is queit a meh in every drama I have seen her (and they are a lot) but hopefully she would be better her. to be honest, both casting choices of Kiyomori's wives are bit of let down.

and I am as happy to see Nakai Kiichi name in the cast as Matsuken. his picture above reminds me so much of "Takeda Shingen". it was my first ever taiga going back to teenage age. had a huge crush on him.
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Post by yanie » Nov 29th, '11, 13:17

Issy wrote:to be honest, both casting choices of Kiyomori's wives are bit of let down.
Kato Ai? What a coincidence, I'm not that fond of her too, actually :mrgreen: But she's okay, I don't mind her. Fukada, I can't stand -_-
If I'm not mistaken though, Kato Ai will be first love (and first wife), Fukada will be 2nd wife (after Kato's death) and Takei Emi will be Kiyomori's true love? Takei Emi is the main heroine, as far as I know. And of course, they'll be involved in a love triangle with Tamaki^^

I quite like Takei, I think she'd look good with MatsuKen, much better than Matsu-Kato or Matsu-Fukada^^

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Post by raven_frost » Nov 29th, '11, 14:35

yanie wrote:
Issy wrote:to be honest, both casting choices of Kiyomori's wives are bit of let down.
Kato Ai? What a coincidence, I'm not that fond of her too, actually :mrgreen: But she's okay, I don't mind her. Fukada, I can't stand -_-
If I'm not mistaken though, Kato Ai will be first love (and first wife), Fukada will be 2nd wife (after Kato's death) and Takei Emi will be Kiyomori's true love? Takei Emi is the main heroine, as far as I know. And of course, they'll be involved in a love triangle with Tamaki^^

I quite like Takei, I think she'd look good with MatsuKen, much better than Matsu-Kato or Matsu-Fukada^^
All three ladies are just there to look good. They don't have much to offer in the acting department unfortunately.

I'm looking forward to the tussle between the characters Nariko and Tamako played by Matsuyuki Yasuko and Dan Rei respectively.

Saigyou was a samurai. Then he apparently got involved with Tamako even though he was married and this became the catalyst for him entering priesthood/monkhood. I think on her part, Tamako had a complicated life and did not come to a good end.

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Post by arakira » Nov 29th, '11, 19:38

raven_frost wrote:
yanie wrote:
Issy wrote:to be honest, both casting choices of Kiyomori's wives are bit of let down.
Kato Ai? What a coincidence, I'm not that fond of her too, actually :mrgreen: But she's okay, I don't mind her. Fukada, I can't stand -_-
If I'm not mistaken though, Kato Ai will be first love (and first wife), Fukada will be 2nd wife (after Kato's death) and Takei Emi will be Kiyomori's true love? Takei Emi is the main heroine, as far as I know. And of course, they'll be involved in a love triangle with Tamaki^^

I quite like Takei, I think she'd look good with MatsuKen, much better than Matsu-Kato or Matsu-Fukada^^
All three ladies are just there to look good. They don't have much to offer in the acting department unfortunately.

I'm looking forward to the tussle between the characters Nariko and Tamako played by Matsuyuki Yasuko and Dan Rei respectively.
I agree with yanie I quite like Takei, too. She was a positive surprise in GOLD and in Taisetsuna Koto... she was the only one I could look at. Toda Erika's performance looked pretty weak next to her. Looking forward to how she'll do here.
About Kato Ai and Dan Rei - I don't have any opinion. They didn't leave any lasting impression, neither bad nor good with me. However since mother I'm rather fond of Matsuyuki. Will be nice to see her in some ladies' fight ;)

@yanie Nakai and Matsuken were in 99nen no ai (but I wouldn't reccomend that mini-drama, dropped it like 10 min into the 2nd ep.)

Also glad to have ARATA in this drama, I can picture him well as sutoku...too bad he'll be out after the hougen, right? On the other hand I have difficulties picturing Matsuda as a person with power...lol wish they'd cast his older brother instead :whistling:

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Post by Ethlenn » Nov 29th, '11, 19:48

yanie wrote:
Ethlenn wrote:Kiyomori was a great strategist and Heike monogatari stained his legacy a lot (it's a subjective story, to be honest). This doesn't change the fact he chose that path he was following from 1159.
I'm a rookie about the Heian era, so can you please elaborate more about this? Why do you think Heike Monogatari (the novel) stained his legacy?
Heike monogatari depicts Taira as both viscious and bloodthirsty, cruel men or as effeminated courtiers who were better at playing flute that wielding a sword. The truth lies in the middle. Kiyomori's tragedy was that he decided to continue Fujiwara's way and not overturn the whole system like Genji did. It was obvious, it was compiled in the next period when hatred towards Taira was fresh and deep, this is why.

On the sidenote - in 1168 Kiyomori provided funds for Itsukushima shrine (yes, this Itsukushima).

Truthfully, nothing interests me more in Japan history than periods prior to Kamakura.
And since I know less than nothing about the cast, I'm interested in the story itself.
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Post by yanie » Nov 30th, '11, 02:54

raven_frost wrote:All three ladies are just there to look good. They don't have much to offer in the acting department unfortunately.
They won't contribute much in the main plot, you mean? I'm afraid you're right XD

arakira wrote:@yanie Nakai and Matsuken were in 99nen no ai (but I wouldn't reccomend that mini-drama, dropped it like 10 min into the 2nd ep.)
Ack! That's right! I totally forgot, I watched that drama, lol. I quite like it, btw :mrgreen: (well, just the first 2 eps though, it got boring when the children grew up)

Ethlenn wrote:Heike monogatari depicts Taira as both viscious and bloodthirsty, cruel men or as effeminated courtiers who were better at playing flute that wielding a sword.
And you don't think so?

Ironically, the dictator let all Yoshitomo's children go. I'm quite bewildered of that fact.

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Post by kitty10 » Dec 1st, '11, 11:57

Some pictures:
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Pictures courtesy of the official NHK site.
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Post by yanie » Dec 2nd, '11, 10:00

Kiyomori (Matsuyama Ken'ichi)

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Yoshitomo (Tamaki Hiroshi)

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Tadamori (Nakai Kiichi)

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Yoritomo (Okada Masaki)

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Hojo Masako (Anne)

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Shinzei (Abe Sadao)

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Usagimaru (Kato Koji)

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Tamako (Dan Rei)

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FYI, the drama will begin with the downfall of the Taira clan, that's why Yoritomo (Yoshitomo's son) and his wife, Masako, would appear already in Episode 1. I guess they'd take back the story to the past after the opening scene.

I just learned that Hojo Masako is an "onna bugeisha" (female warrior of the upper class). Anne looked so cool in the outfit and sword! I rarely see any women in Japanese jidaigeki dramas fight. Looking forward to Masako's swordfight scenes!^v^

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Post by Ethlenn » Dec 2nd, '11, 10:47

There was also Lady Tomoe, wife of Yoshinaka (died in 1184) but I guess we won't see those two in the drama. Tomoe is quite intriguing, to tell the truth.
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Post by yanie » Dec 2nd, '11, 11:16

Ethlenn wrote:There was also Lady Tomoe, wife of Yoshinaka (died in 1184) but I guess we won't see those two in the drama. Tomoe is quite intriguing, to tell the truth.
According to wiki, she was never proven to have been a historical figure so she could also be an invention of the author of Heike Monogatari. But it'd be interesting to see her in drama^^

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Post by Ethlenn » Dec 2nd, '11, 11:32

I'm going to work, so no time, but Steven T. Brown wrote a research article "From Woman Warrior to Peripatetic Entertainer: The Multiple Histories of Tomoe". She existed, but maybe wasn't that active as Heike authors wanted.
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Post by kitty10 » Dec 2nd, '11, 12:29

I like Dan Rei's look, will be interesting to see her scenes with Fujiki. Hopefully there are many XD

As for Anne's costume... I think if Usagimaru runs out of furry stuff for his Jack Sparrow look, he could borrow some from Masako.
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Post by kitty10 » Dec 15th, '11, 01:24

Matsuyama Kenichi attends the pre-screening for the first episode of “Taira no Kiyomori”
by peachsoda on December 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm

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A private screening of the first completed part of NHK’s new taiga drama “Taira no Kiyomori” was held on December 12th. Stars Matsuyama Kenichi, Nakai Kiichi, and Matsuda Seiko were in attendance.

Matsuda is starring in the role of a court lady from Gion who served as Emperor Shirakawa’s beloved concubine for many years, as well as helping to raise Kiyomori. She said of her character, “She was a smart and charming person who was skilled in song and dance. She was also a woman who possessed a warm, motherly air.”

Matsuyama also praised her performance, adding, “She was the person who was closest to Kiyomori, and was like a second mother to him. [Matsuda] has perfectly expressed her motherliness and loving atmosphere.” Matsuda was also entranced, saying “I was also overwhelmed and moved by Matsuyama’s Kiyomori. At any rate, it’s wonderful.”

Matsuyama stated, “Although I only appear for about a minute in the first episode, from the second on I’ll appear quite a bit. Once again, I want to do my best to move the hearts of the viewers.”

On the other hand, Nakai noted, looking back on the taiga drama he previously starred in, Takeda Shingen (back in 1988), “I was warmly surrounded by many senior actors at that time. From now on I have to be the one to help out, and my role is to bring Matsuyama-kun through this drama in the best shape. I hope to be able to have him feel like he was glad to have been in this taiga drama a year from now.”

The 74-minute first episode of Taira no Kiyomori, “Futari no Chichi” will air on January 8th, 2012.

Source: Eiga.com

Article courtesy of tokyohive
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Post by MaiKitty » Jan 1st, '12, 11:45

Takahiro Nishijima (AAA) will act as Kiyomoris brother in this drama. His first historical drama!

Source

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Post by kitty10 » Jan 2nd, '12, 00:14

There's a clip out on the official website that introduces various characters and scenes from the taiga. Have a watch here: 15-min clip


And here are more pictures:

Top half: Yamamoto Koji as Fujiwara no Yorinaga, Dan Rei as Fujiwara no Tamako, Anne as Hojo Masako, Okada Masaki as Minamoto no Yoritomo
Bottom half: Ryo as Horikawa no Tsubone, Matsuda Seiko as Gion no Nyougo, Kohinata Fumiyo as Minamoto no Tameyoshi, Wakui Emi as Fujiwara no Muneko
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L-R: ARATA as Emperor Sutokuten, Ito Shiro as Emperor Shirakawa, Takei Emi as Lady Tokiwa, Mikami Hiroshi as Emperor Tobajo, Matsuyuki Yasuko as Fujiwara no Nariko, Matsuda Shota as Emperor Goshirakawa, Narumi Riko as Taira no Shigeko
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Post by arakira » Jan 3rd, '12, 10:34

kitty10 thanks for all the updates. Aww just a few more days to go.

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Post by sensei991 » Jan 6th, '12, 20:22

Can anyone suggest a good, readable translation of the Heike Monogatari? I have the version by AL Sadler but it reads like Elizabethan English. I know that the story really develops after Kiyomori's death, but I'm interested in the whole tale.

In a note somewhat off the track, Murakami Haruki's latest book 1Q84 has a 17-year old dyslexic female character named Fuka-Eri (interesting name, eh?) who says her favorite book is the Tales of the Heike. She is able to recite a long passage on the battle at Dan-no-ura from memory.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 6th, '12, 21:15

This 2-vol version I use for my purposes, it's an easy reading.

About the girl, biwa-hoshi recited dozens of stories, and no one was amazed. They didn't have books, 99% of people couldn't read anyway, and they didn't have internetz. They had to remember all.

Try also this website for details on the story
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Post by sensei991 » Jan 6th, '12, 22:39

Ethlenn - Thanks for the recommendations of the book and the website. I'll take a look at these.

Regarding the ability of Fuka-Eri to recite long passages, because she is dyslexic, she learns by listening to audio tapes or being read to. So she is carrying on in the oral tradition of stories being passed along.

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Post by Peggy » Jan 7th, '12, 00:47

I don't know too much about this period in Japanese history but I am really looking forward to this taiga. I see so many actors that I admire, and others who look formidable and obviously must be worthy, so this should be a great drama to watch and listen to the voices.
I have d/l a 'Takeda Shingen' but I think it is 1997. Have saved it to watch later . Now doing the same for an 'Oda Nobunaga' of 1992. I love that part of the history.
I did see 'Yoshitsune' some time ago. I think the lead was played by a pretty boy from an idol group so it was a little distracting but the drama itself was good.

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Post by Peggy » Jan 10th, '12, 01:32

This drama has just started here on TV in California. Unfortunately there is no English sub. It makes it quite difficult because there is such a large cast and the story line needs a lot of knowledge. If it goes online with subs I will definitely watch it there as well.

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Post by kitty10 » Jan 10th, '12, 13:16

Peggy wrote:This drama has just started here on TV in California. Unfortunately there is no English sub. It makes it quite difficult because there is such a large cast and the story line needs a lot of knowledge. If it goes online with subs I will definitely watch it there as well.
The torrent uploaded on DA has Chinese subs, so if you understand Chinese, you can start watching it.
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After reading Yoshikawa

Post by TenguKing » Jan 10th, '12, 14:40

After reading Yoshikawa's version, I found that his idea of the Lady of Gion being "given" as a wife to Taira no Tadamori after being knocked up by Shirakawa to be more plausible than Tadamori taking her in after being jilted by the Emperor as this show depicts.

Any thoughts?

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Additional Question

Post by TenguKing » Jan 10th, '12, 15:10

Now I'm wondering if there is ANY HISTORICAL BASIS WHATSOEVER to the idea of Kiyomori's parentage being in question?

Seems to me far more likely that his real father was Tadamori, his real mother was some lady (name probably unknown) and that they were just a boring Heian/Kamakura period warrior couple.

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Post by yanie » Jan 15th, '12, 13:01

TenguKing wrote:Seems to me far more likely that his real father was Tadamori, his real mother was some lady (name probably unknown) and that they were just a boring Heian/Kamakura period warrior couple.
If I'm not mistaken, the story that Kiyomori is actually the Emperor's son, was just a convincing rumor due to certain hints and records, but it was never officially proved. However, I think I read that it is officially recorded, Kiyomori is an adopted son of Tadamori, just that no one knows whom his parents are.

Just watched Ep1, this taiga drama is too dark for my taste. Reminds me of 1994 NHK taiga, Hana no Ran. Plus I never like jidaigeki stories which involve too much of the noble caste. I'm interested in the bushi people only, so I fast-forwarded the noble's scenes, and only watch Tadamori parts.

I absolutely love Nakai Kiichi as Tadamori :thumright: And I appreciate Kiyomori's staff for being able to hold back themselves in getting the lead appear in the first episode at all, which some taiga drama always does, just so the lead would have an earlier screentime and would appear in all 50 eps. I'm pleasantly surprised that Matsuyama Ken'ichi didn't appear at all, and the lead of the 1st episode was practically Nakai Kiichi :cheers: And so relieved to see a 7 year old playing a 7 year old :mrgreen:
I also like Fukiishi Kazue as Maiko. She delivered a quite memorable performance. This is suppose to be something, coz I usually dislike the actress :D

Despite the awesome cast, the plot is going too slow.

I'll give it another chance once the subs is out. It's quite difficult to catch what they're saying, since I'm not familiar with ancient imperial terms.

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Post by jpb123 » Jan 21st, '12, 02:58

First time posting here, hello everyone. I watched both episodes of the show so far, and could hardly catch anything. But it looks pretty interesting so far, despite it's almost menacing tone. Can't wait for subs, so I can figure out what people are actually saying!

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Post by rootabega » Jan 25th, '12, 03:54

Hi, taiga fans. I am extra excited this year because I have always been interested in this historical period. I am also going gaga for the costumes - I've been starving for some pre-Kamakura style 8). The photos so good, I think I'll DL the first eps without subs, just for the historical eye-candy.

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Post by kitty10 » Jan 29th, '12, 22:59

Just finished eps 2 and 3, so far so good. Matsuyama Ken'ichi is doing a pretty decent job as Kiyomori, who in these initial episodes needed taking down quite a few pegs. Also pleasantly surprised by Tamaki Hiroshi and Fujiki Naohito, and the veteran cast has been good.

The only character worth facepalming several times over is Dan Rei's Tamako. Not the fault of the actress, but the character is really... omg stupid. I don't understand how Saigyo could fall for her. -_-
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Post by rootabega » Jan 31st, '12, 10:18

So far, I like everthing about this taiga..... except the star :cry: ...

Worst. Mugging. Ever. :glare:

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Post by kitty10 » Feb 3rd, '12, 20:35

Picture time again :P Scenes from episodes 2-5:
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A few of Saigyo:
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Post by TenguKing » Feb 4th, '12, 01:39

oh so they're going to do that thing with Saigyo murdering Kesa-Gozen out of jealousy, fleeing the law, then somehow becoming a monk and then later playing a role in Yoritomo's rise to power?

I love Saigyo... he's such a contradiction... I mean the guys a cold-blooded murderer of a woman... literally... and is never held accountable for it. Then later, he somehow finds himself a key figure in Yoritomo's new government.

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Post by kitty10 » Feb 4th, '12, 23:59

TenguKing wrote:oh so they're going to do that thing with Saigyo murdering Kesa-Gozen out of jealousy, fleeing the law, then somehow becoming a monk and then later playing a role in Yoritomo's rise to power?

I love Saigyo... he's such a contradiction... I mean the guys a cold-blooded murderer of a woman... literally... and is never held accountable for it. Then later, he somehow finds himself a key figure in Yoritomo's new government.
Really? :O Well, that'd make Saigyo very interesting then, I look forward to it (although I don't really want him to be a murderer, Fujiki's too hot for that :P) I love the opening scene of ep 4, where the bushi were at shooting practice and Saigyo was pitch-perfect :wub:

Liking the taiga so far although I think Matsuyama is over-acting a bit. Nakai Kiichi has been great as Tadamori, a very calming presence despite the antics of Kiyomori. I do think they should have made Tameyoshi a stronger character instead of the grumbling, jealous old man that he is, but I guess he's this way so that Yoshitomo will be driven to do what his father has failed to achieve.

Oh and I love the music of the opening credits.
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Post by TenguKing » Feb 5th, '12, 03:09

Tale of Saigyo (from wiki):

Born Satō Norikiyo (佐藤義清) in Kyoto to a noble family, he lived during the traumatic transition of power between the old court nobles and the new samurai class.

As a youth, he worked as a guard to retired Emperor Toba, but one day in 1140 at the age of 22, for reasons still unknown, he separated from his pregnant wife and their daughter to take up the life of a wandering monk.

It was at this time that he began writing poetry, taking the pen name "Saigyō" meaning Western Journey, a reference to Amida Buddha and the Western paradise. He lived alone for long periods of his life in Saga, Mt Koya, Mt Yoshino, Ise, and many other places, but he is more known for the many long, poetic journeys he took to Northern Honshū that would later inspire Basho in his Narrow Road to the Interior. Some main collections of Saigyō's work are in the Sankashū, Shin Kokin Wakashū, and Shika Wakashū. He died in Hirokawa Temple in Kawachi (present-day Osaka) at the age of 72.

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Post by TenguKing » Feb 5th, '12, 03:12

Tragedy of Kesa Gozen and Mongaku:

Kesa Gozen was the loyal wife of a palace guard. She is hailed to this day as a paragon of virtue and beauty.

Despite her already being married to another man (happily married by most accounts), Endo Morito, her first cousin, had fallen hopelessly in love with her too, and would stop at nothing in his attempts to get her to sleep with him.

She made many attempts to turn away his persistent advances, but Morito was relentless. Eventually this pressure became too much for her to bear and she decided to put a decisive end to the matter. She agreed to his demands for sex, on the one condition that he kill her husband first, so that their sexual affair would not dishonor the sanctity of her marriage, and her husband being dead, she would at least be spared from the sin of adultery.

She told Morito where her husband slept and exactly how the murder would be carried out. At the agreed upon time, she cut off her long hair and donning male clothes, she lay in bed in the exact spot that she and Morito had planned for her husband to be in.

After beheading the sleeping person in the dark, Endo Morito was soon horrified to find that the person he had beheaded was in fact his beloved Kesa Gozen. In a state of complete shock, Morito fled the law and eventually became a monk after purifying himself for several weeks under the icy Nachi waterfall.

During this waterfall penance he was strengthened by Fudo Myo (the immovable) and his two acolytes Seitaka and Kongara. He later took the monk name Mongaku Shonin.

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Post by yanie » Feb 13th, '12, 00:38

There seem to be so many outdoor scenes in this series. Such a refreshing view for me, after watching GOU which was 90% shot indoor studio.
And I'm impressed in "Taira Kiyomori" the scenes inside the house doesn't look like a studio set either... there's no way they shoot 100% outdoor, right?

Btw, is the original soundtrack CD available for download on the net?

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Post by yanie » Feb 13th, '12, 04:31

LOL, this is interesting. The governor of Hyogo prefecture criticized "Taira no Kiyomori" being too realistic ^^;;;
薄汚れた画面…大河「平清盛」を兵庫知事が批判

読売新聞 1月10日(火)18時52分配信
 8日に始まったNHK大河ドラマ「平清盛」の視聴率が低かったことについて、兵庫県の井戸敏三知事は10日の記者会見で、「鮮やかさがなく、薄汚れた画面ではチャンネルを回す気にはならないというのが第一印象」と述べた。

 県内には、清盛が日宋貿易の拠点として整備した大輪田泊(おおわだのとまり)や遷都した福原京などがあったことから、県は観光客誘致のキャンペーン中。今後の展開次第ではNHKへの改善申し入れも検討するとしている。

 自宅で初回を見たという井戸知事は「うちのテレビがおかしくなったのかと思うような画面だった」と、色彩を抑えた映像などを批判。さらに、「時代考証は史実に忠実にするとの方針は聞いているが、時代考証を学ぶために見るのではない」とし、「公家社会打破のエネルギーや、日本の将来を先取りした人物像を正面に据えていただきたい」と注文を付けた。
He said the picture was too fuzzy, too dusty, almost no color. He said "I'm not watching Taiga to learn history."

So, basically the NHK taiga producers can't win. Last year, GOU was criticized of being too fantasized and this year KIYOMORI is criticized of being too realistic :D
But I really wonder, what's with the low ratings? Does people not interested in Heian era? Or is it too dark and gloomy?

I love it, so far...

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Post by Peggy » Feb 14th, '12, 09:27

Yanie,
I will be able to start watching this on Feb 25 on TV and it will have subs. I am looking forward because this is the second taiga of this period I have seen. This one, from the few trailers, seems to be very real and natural. At least if you can call fierce taigas 'natural'. It does look dusty and at times dark , but I think that is how it would have been. We have been seeing such colourful scenes in bright castles etc lately. Atsuhime was lovely scenery and beautiful costumes and GOU even more so. I think this new one is totally different...at least at the beginning.
Governor doesn't want his prefecture to be shown in such a 'non pleasant' way I guess.

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Post by Peggy » Feb 17th, '12, 19:58

Last night I watched on NHK to see a very interesting documentary(?) about the planning of the streets in Kyoto. I was really interested to hear a great deal of the Heian times. We don't often hear about that time. Since the talk about the latest drama mentions dusty and dark, I was so interested to hear about the colours of clothes at that time.
It seems that the Heians found a way to produce a lovely soft purple in cloth. They also made other colours that were quite new and varied a lot. It seems that the women of the time were truly interested in putting colours together and they would wear at least twelve kimonos every day with different colours and the under ones showing briefly at the sleeves and hems.
This made a very heavy weight so they did not do very much walking around or working. I am assuming this would be for the wealthier families or royal court. At times they would even wear as many as twenty kimonos.

I can't quite imagine that unless it was a very cold winter.....

The colours in the materials shown were really lovely. Hope we get to see something of them in the taiga later on.
Last edited by Peggy on Feb 20th, '12, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by yanie » Feb 19th, '12, 01:22

Question, isn't Kiyomori suppose to have brothers more than 1? Or was it just in Yoshikawa Eiji's version that he has many siblings?

I have to say I love the NHK drama's story more than Yoshikawa Eiji's book... Yoshikawa's version is too soap opera XD

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Post by rootabega » Feb 21st, '12, 03:49

Yanie: I know I am uttering a sacrilege here, but I totally agree with you about Yoshikawa Eiji, one of the most popular authors in Japanese history. I watched the 1950s Samurai Trilogy films and thought I should read Yoshikawa's Musashi Miyamoto, which was the source material. Big mistake! At first I thought it was just a horrible translation, but apparently, the original is just as banal and clunky. The Samurai Trilogy films were a tad soapy (but well worth watching), but Yoshikawa's book was a total wash. I'll read anything in translation by a Japanese author, and this was first time I was totally disappointed. One day, when I hope to read original works in Japanese, this is one author I am giving a wide berth to. :x Just my opinion, of course, not trying to upset any fans.

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Post by rootabega » Feb 21st, '12, 04:09

Further to the above comments, I, too, was a little surprised by the sight of real Heian era clothing - dirty clothes, dusty headgear, etc. The muted, natural colours only make sense when accounting for the Heian obsession with noticing every last blade of grass, and there was a lot more earth and grass out there than dayglo flowers and tropical birds. I believe the ideal was to blend into one's surroundings, not to upstage them. In this regard, the art direction gets a thumbs up from me.
But, seriously, what is it with the hunky young lead - freshly-rolled in dirt and wearing artfully torn designer rags?? I know I'm being a party pooper, but it looks totally ridiculous to me. I call it the "itinerant male model" look. :lol

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Post by zettaiKaren » Feb 21st, '12, 04:14

yanie wrote:There seem to be so many outdoor scenes in this series. Such a refreshing view for me, after watching GOU which was 90% shot indoor studio.
And I'm impressed in "Taira Kiyomori" the scenes inside the house doesn't look like a studio set either... there's no way they shoot 100% outdoor, right?
Because for the past 3 yrs (Atsuhime, Ryoma Den, and Go), funds were syphoned off to make 'Saka no Ue no Kumo'? BTW, it has the most impressive CG'd scenes I've ever seen in a JMovie/JDrama. Even though they used a muted color pallette, I watched a 1080p image and I really can't tell during the major naval battles that all but one are CGI'd ships.

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Post by Peggy » Feb 26th, '12, 19:09

Regarding the dull clothing colours for the people in the streets and the samurai. The people of the court would be wearing the clothing that had beautiful colours. They were the highest strata in society. The samurai were almost the lowest at that time. They were kept by the Regent to catch and kill thieves and were not regarded in the same way that samurai were later on.

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[Ratings] Taira no Kiyomori (NHK 2012 Taiga)

Post by nosnoop » Apr 2nd, '12, 22:07

Taira no Kiyomori (NHK 2012 Taiga)

Code: Select all

Wk   Date   Ratings   Wk   Date   Ratings
1    1/8     17.3%    11   3/18    13.2%
2    1/15    17.8%    12   3/25    12.6%
3    1/22    17.2%    13   4/1     11.3%
4    1/29    17.5%
5    2/5     16.0%
6    2/12    13.3%
7    2/19    14.4%
8    2/26    15.0%
9    3/4     13.4%
10   3/11    14.7%

Average: 15.02%
The news is not good. At 11.3% this past weekend, it was one of the lowest ratings on record, and the first time it has dropped below 12% since Musashi 9 years ago. The worst weekly ratings ever for Taiga drama was Hana no Ran in 1994 with 10.1%.

I will be updating the TV ratings for the Taiga drama every week.

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Post by Ethlenn » Apr 2nd, '12, 22:16

Then please update it here, if you believe in numbers so much, OK?
No reason to create separate thread.
Peggy wrote:Regarding the dull clothing colours for the people in the streets and the samurai. The people of the court would be wearing the clothing that had beautiful colours. They were the highest strata in society. The samurai were almost the lowest at that time. They were kept by the Regent to catch and kill thieves and were not regarded in the same way that samurai were later on.
Minamoto clan, in times of Fujiwara Michinaga (10/11th century) were called "hunting dogs of Michinaga", meaning, samurai had little if close to zero respect by then. They were treated like servants and that's all.
The very word "samurai" comes from the verb "saburau" which means "to serve". Yet, the whole philosophy of mighty warriors.

Peasants and commoners were forbidden to wear silks, to use bright color. Only hemp was allowed to them.
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Post by nosnoop » Apr 2nd, '12, 22:25

Ethlenn wrote:Then please update it here, if you believe in numbers so much, OK?
No reason to create separate thread.
You are the mod, it's your decision, I am fine with it.
Your comment is the exact reason why I posted it in a separate thread, as I figure that some users do not care about numbers. And posting poor ratings numbers would spoil the fun in a thread shared by users who love this drama.

And I welcome suggestions too, if most users in this thread do not care about this ratings number, I will not post any updates.

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Post by Peggy » Apr 2nd, '12, 22:57

I don't really care too much about ratings. I have my own appreciation in my head as to whether something is good and worth watching or not so good and give it a miss.

It does make a difference however, when ratings mean whether or not the drama or film will be shown more than once and how it will be publicised. I know there have been shows that pleased me immensely but they apparently got poor ratings and were never seen again.

:unsure:

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Post by yanie » Apr 6th, '12, 04:44

Ratings aside, I'd really like to know minna-san's opinions of the drama so far? How's it going? I haven't been watching again since Ep4, because I'm waiting for subs :P

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Post by Peggy » Apr 6th, '12, 17:31

yanie,

Well it's been a little heavy going really;. I am still keeping up with this taiga even tho it is not getting going very well. I can't get over the bump of an almost thirty year old man playing a 14 year old boy. I hope they will advance the story a bit faster and get him up to his twenties at least.
The story is definitely being told about the older members of the families and the rivalry is there with the clans who don't like the way the Heike are rising up the ranks and into the court.
Kiyomori has now been sent off to vanquish the pirates and he has made it his business to not be the leader but a member of the crew who will fight with all his might against the foe. I think they did make him the leader so I don't know how that will work out.

They still have a long way to go with cleaning some of those clan members up to make them look presentable.

verbish
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Post by verbish » Apr 12th, '12, 16:55

This is the first TAIGA dorama I have followed (I tried to watch Go last year, but just couldn't suspend my disbelief), and I love it - everything, from the cast (I am a big fan of Matsuyama Kenichi since watching him as L, also detroit metal city, etc), cinematography, music, pacing, plot development. It is truly an epic story. Someone had mentioned before that some critics or professors in Japan are complaining that it is too authentic and that they prefer watching something more romanticized or less accurately portraying that time period...but I feel totally opposite of this. So far, it does feel true to the times and to the story, but of course it is not perfect, like for ex. some scenes are clearly romanticized...and the anachronistic depictions of some characters take away from the authenticity. Still, I love it :) And it makes me want to learn more about this time period. Although I have studied a bit about Japanese history and culture, I had no idea that the warrior class during the Heian period was looked upon as the subservient "dogs" of the aristocracy. It is really interesting!

I have watched up to episode 14, this last one being particularly dark.
I felt really sad for Iemori. He just always wanted to please his parents, family and make them happy, and in the end, he got so manipulated and messed up by the Fujiwara's. Well, at least before falling off his horse, it seems that, in his heart, he reconciled with Kiyomori. Just a couple of questions for those who may know: Did he fall from his horse because of sickness, or was it intentional? or maybe his saddle was set up to make him fall? I wonder if his story is historically accurate?
Also liking the development of Kiyomori, from an bratty kid to a loud teenager to a more reserved, controlled, and somewhat calculating young adult. He is still the risk-taker and visionary...that hasn't changed.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Apr 14th, '12, 18:35

verbish,
You are ahead of me with the episodes, since I have not seen the continuation of the Iemori situation. I felt so sorry for him. He is such an innocent and he has been abused by that debauched person. I dont know about the horse scene at all yet.
I think we will see a much brighter looking and much cleaner Kiyamori soon as I think he finds the lady he suddenly likes.

I find this Heian era most interesting. It was so far back in the samurai history and we are used to them being very grand and lords of the castle as it were. Things were not so grand in the earlier days were they.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Apr 15th, '12, 12:37

Hi, I assume you are all watching this in Japanese? I am stuck at episode 5 since this is where the Eng. subs have stopped so far, or has anyone found them elsewhere? I would really appreciate it if you could help as it is frustrating to know that the story is advancing so quickly whithout being able to watch it.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Apr 16th, '12, 18:30

Sunflower,

I notice that you must be watching this in Italy. Or are you d.l ? I am watching this on TV in California. It has subs but also it is repeated a few times on another channel with and sometimes without subs, and also it will be a different episode. Very strange !

We are now up to episode 7 for the regular weekly watching.

verbish
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Post by verbish » Apr 16th, '12, 20:55

Hi Sunflower, Yes I've been watching the rest of the episodes in Japanese, either from here or streaming. It is difficult for me to understand everything without Eng subs, but having subtitles in Jpn helps a abit. Peggy, So NHK has aired up to episode 7 in California? I wonder, have all been subbed in English? Thanks!

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Apr 17th, '12, 06:11

Hi Peggy and Verbish,
thanks for your replies. Yes I am in Italy and I am downloading the raws with subtitles when they are available. It is good to know that in the US many more episodes have been already subbed in English. I wonder if it is possible to find these episodes with subs anywhere on the web as I am starting to lose hopes that we will ever see the follow up of the subtitles on here. Thanks again and happy watching !!

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » Apr 17th, '12, 22:43

This taiga is shown on Sat. with English subs and that presumably is the 'official' showing. Then It is repeated at least twice a week with the subs at different times and sometimes on the other NHK channel. They also show the same episode without subs and sometimes they show a later episode without subs. I don't quite know why they do this but as long as I can see one of the programmes with English subs I know what is going on. It is impossible to guess the story in this taiga without subs I think. I don't know the history of the Heian days so I can't guess, as I can with the Warring States taigas.
If I had to make a choce I think I would choose to be a samurai dog rather than one of those rancid characters in the Royal court cesspool. What a group of nasty people they are.

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ingesz
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Post by ingesz » Apr 18th, '12, 09:38

i wish there's someone would share the OST of this drama ... really love to hear the song that Kiyomori's mother sang ...

遊び をせんとや生まれけむ
戯れせんとや生まれけん
遊ぶ子供の声きけば
我が身さえこそ動がるれ

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Post by zettaiKaren » Apr 25th, '12, 00:22

While waiting for my daily fix (Umechan Sensei) and the raw of one of my favorite dramas this season (LEGAL HIGH), I finally caught up w/ the snorefest (aka Taira no Kiyomori) up to ep.16, and am happy to report that the pacing finally picked up around ep.13, and things actually got interesting starting from ep.14. One thing I got to give the producers/directors credit, is not shying away from political incorrectness. They showed what the men really were in that era, i.e. they behaved like pigs/as****** who just grabbed/used whatever women/men (yes, men) they wanted for their own satisfaction/gain. Whether that will help ratings is another matter, plus a lot of viewers might have left the show for good anyway, and I doubt many new ones will be gained.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » Apr 25th, '12, 07:35

Thanks for your updates as it is really frustrating for those of us who are still stuck at ep. 5 of this taiga drama. We will have a lot of episodes to catch up with once the subbing gets going again if it ever will do so. :cry:

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » May 28th, '12, 03:49

I don't know where you are with the episodes now but at this time Kiyomori has lost his beloved first wife to a bad influenza type illness. He is distraught because he loved her so. It takes a long time and a lot of push and pull to get him to marry again. He does, of course, and it is a success. However, the Heike are not making friends either at the court or with the other clans. Yet they are necessary because they protect the emperor and they are very good at keeping things in hand.
Kiyomori is almost as wild as when he was a boy. He has not matured at all really. His father Tadamori fially tells him about his real mother and why he adopted him when his mother was killed.
All this time there is strife in many areas and of course the Heike have to try and police the whole area. They are not exactly a well loved group.
I am still waiting for something concrete to happen regarding the samurais and how they will finally become the stronger group and change the way Japan is ruled.
We are up to Episode 14 here in California with the subs.

sunflower63
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Post by sunflower63 » May 28th, '12, 07:19

Peggy, thanks so much for the updates. I am still stuck at ep. 5 as I am waiting for the subs to be posted on here. I wish there was a way to get hold of the American subs somehow. In any case it sounds all very interesting and I look forward to watching it all very soon.

Peggy
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Post by Peggy » May 29th, '12, 09:10

I did not realise that you were stuck with this drama./ I would have done a much better job trying to keep you up with each episode. I will try to do it each episode from now on. It really goes quite slowly and Kiyomori still is the dustiest looking samurai I have ever seen. I swear he never sees soap and water.

Tadamori does not appear a lot except when there is something serious to be said or he wants to try and impart some wisdom to KiyomoriThe last thing that has happened is that Ieomori the younger brother has grown fed up with the way things are going. He has stated that he is going to be the heir to the clan and will take over the place as leader. Kiyomori is in trouble again because he shot an arrow into the holy carriage which the priests wwere carrying. there is bad blood between the Heike ahd these particular temple priests Therefore Tadomori and Kiyomori have secluded or put themselve into detention awaiting their punishment from the court. So many people now hate the Heike that there is clamor for their harsh punishment. However the Retired emperor is not sure he can do with the Heike. He goes to see the two men and ask Ky., did he deliberately fire the arrow with intent. Ky. says yes. Emperor then stands with his arms dramatically flung wide and says.Then shoot me! So Ky stand up and mimes drawing his bow and aims an imaginary arrow at the heart of the emperor. Then the Emp. gasps and clutches his chest and slowly begins to laugh as he thinks that his hated tather's blood is draining out of his body. You really had to be there....! He does not punish them except for a small fine. this does not sit well with some of the court but thre is nothing they can do.
Next episode will be the resolution about who will lead the clan in the future. This is just one small scene and there is a lot more which you will enjoy when you get to this episode.
Excuse mistakes. It is 2 a.m and I am off to bed.

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