J-Addicts? A site for Japanese Movies

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Should a site similiar to D-Addicts be created for Japanese Movies?

Poll ended at Jun 21st, '04, 10:30

Yes
131
85%
No
23
15%
 
Total votes: 154

Ruroshin
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J-Addicts? A site for Japanese Movies

Post by Ruroshin » May 22nd, '04, 10:30

With D-Addicts not accepting movies anymore I was thinking of doing a spin off site hosted on a totally different server for Japanese Movies.

Chinese movies or more specially Hong Kong movies are available with english subtitles on DVD and most Korean movies also have english subtitles on their DVD plus there's the wonderful FSS site for kmovie BT.

However, Japanese movies with english subtitles are rarer and harder to find. So I was thinking of using D-Addicts code and make it Japanese movies. Since it'll be on a different server with a different domain from D-Addicts it won't affect it at all. Also, since there are less Japanese movies the site probably won't be very big so it won't use up much resources which makes it easy for me to find a cheap host.

So what do you people think, is it worthwhile? Is there enough interest for it?

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jmovies

Post by lordruin » May 22nd, '04, 10:50

I would love to see a site for japanese movies, and would be happy to help in any way I can. I have around 14 japanese movies with eng. subs which I will be happy to seed. :)
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Post by charlie » May 22nd, '04, 11:26

yah that sounds like an awesome idea

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Post by ad » May 22nd, '04, 11:32

A good idea, but i suggest you make the torrents available only to the members. Since registration is open and free it's not much of a restriction.

Also it has to be moderated, otherwise it'll go down the moment some idiot posts Cassern there. I remember somebody already asked for Cassern upload in the shout box.

I think it is cool to share J-movies that haven't been released on DVD outside Japan. But we definitely have to stay away from new releases and high profile movies (those are crap anyway).

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Post by lordruin » May 22nd, '04, 12:05

I'm confused :unsure: already 2 people have voted against this idea.
If you are interested in this site, of course you will vote in favour - but if you are not interested, this is not a reason to oppose it.
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Post by BT-Slut » May 22nd, '04, 12:11

lordruin wrote:I'm confused :unsure: already 2 people have voted against this idea.
If you are interested in this site, of course you will vote in favour - but if you are not interested, this is not a reason to oppose it.
Well if that is not a reason to oppose it, then when would be a good reason to oppose it?

Incidentially, I'm for J-addicts and voted for it.

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Post by Ruroshin » May 22nd, '04, 12:13

Controls would definitely be more tighter than they are here and since I'm expecting a whole lot less torrents it will be easier to moderate them.

And don't be afraid to vote no if that is your opinion because if I wasn't interested in people's opinion then I wouldn't put the poll up in the first place. Doing this will cost me time and effort so I want to know if its worthwhile.

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Post by lordruin » May 22nd, '04, 12:26

Hi BT - :)
A good reason to oppose it would be , for example - that someone may think it could detract from the D-Addicts site. Or that it may arouse the interest of the movie industry.
Merely not being interested is not a reason to oppose.
For example, I am not interested in heavy metal music- but this is not a reason to oppose others setting up a site to share this music.
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Post by Takez0 » May 22nd, '04, 13:54

How about a very moderated site then? Not the usual 20 movies per day upload :glare:

Meaning the uploaders would submit the torrents and the mods would go over them, accepting them or not, and releasing in a timely manner.

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Post by Ed » May 22nd, '04, 14:01

It would be a good idea to make a J-Addicts !
And the torrents should be monitored tightly by the moderators.

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Post by in-sung » May 22nd, '04, 14:02

i'm down. i have 50+ japanese movies and will be able to seed/start torrents. if ruroshin decides to make a site, i can run the movies by him before i post any torrents, or send him a list. let me know whats up.
...아이구~~~~~~~ :unsure:

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Post by xiaryx » May 22nd, '04, 14:13

Looking at the trend of previous posted torrents, the number of jmovies are alot less than that of kmovies. Therefore, it will be much more easier to moderate.
100% for this idea!

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Post by reverend » May 22nd, '04, 14:28

I'm down too. This idea would be most welcome. I think the registration is probably a good idea, although yes, the smaller number of torrents would make it all aesier to manage

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Post by BT-Slut » May 22nd, '04, 14:42

I'm confused.

I went to check on my movie Green Tea and it's gone already. But the korean movies are still there.

So d-addicts is going to keep seeding kmovies or the cleaning staff just hasn't gotten around to killing the kmovie torrents yet?

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Post by Takez0 » May 22nd, '04, 14:52

BT-Slut wrote:I'm confused.

I went to check on my movie Green Tea and it's gone already. But the korean movies are still there.

So d-addicts is going to keep seeding kmovies or the cleaning staff just hasn't gotten around to killing the kmovie torrents yet?
If you go to drop down menu on the torrent page, you'll see there's no more c-movie on the options. So probably all movies under c-movie category were killed

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Post by babyguh » May 22nd, '04, 15:05

heee weow i never really watch jmovie before i kno my brother let me watch some samarai black and white one and thats was boring ahhha so yah i wanna kno how jmovies r really not jus samurai movies right? heehhe go for it ...thanx u for considerin hehehe

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FSS site

Post by Hellkite » May 22nd, '04, 15:10

Sorry if this is the wrong place but someone mentioned the FSS site for Korean movies. May I know what the address is for that? I tried searching the forums but couldn't find it.

On a more related note, I'm all for the setting up of J-Addicts as well. :) Can't help with the posting but I sure can help with the seeding. :)

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Post by vibius » May 22nd, '04, 15:14

BT-Slut wrote:I'm confused.

I went to check on my movie Green Tea and it's gone already. But the korean movies are still there.

So d-addicts is going to keep seeding kmovies or the cleaning staff just hasn't gotten around to killing the kmovie torrents yet?
I believe Ruroshin explained in another thread that the problematic cmovies were removed outright, and the other movies would just expire after the normal 60 day timeout.

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Post by TranceBrah » May 22nd, '04, 15:39

i like the idea. I wouldn't mind seeing a K-addicts site too!

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Post by DTMUniversal » May 22nd, '04, 16:23

Why not have a C, J, and K - Addicts sites for each movie category? Now you may say C and K movies are widely available on DVD and etc. like that, not for me, my retailer doesn't carry as much D-Addicts does. New C movies are less of a concern to me, since my retailer is Chinese anyway. But old C classics concern me since they're not available. Same goes to J and K movies, I can't find them anywhere if D-Addicts stop providing a place for them to be found.
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Post by tailchaser » May 22nd, '04, 17:09

Well, I voted yes on the presumption of highly moderated releases. If this means that we must wait until a moderator has the time to verify that the release is "safe" that is fine IMO. I think that releasers should also include a note as to why it is safe (not avail. outside Japan, vy rare, no eng subs etc) so that the moderators don't have to do so much research. That is not to say that I think the torrents must be pre-approved. As long as a risky release is caught and pulled from the site in a reasonable time frame that seems fine. I would hope that most releasers would do a bit more checking up on the risk level of their release after this incident anyway. It would be nice if something could be done about postings to suprnova. Maybe member only access would reduce the problem.

I just did a search on Emule for Green Tea and Postman Blues. I found about 50 sources for Postman Blues and about 30 for Green Tea. These are in different versions though so that each version only has about 15 sources. This is probably enough sources to complete a download but it will probably also be very slow (a week or more) and there are no guarantees. OTOH, last time I checked (before the DMCA problem) there were 0 sources for Postman Blues (CD2) here.

Edit: After reading groink's post I would also like to add that the name "j-addicts" may not be the best choice. Even though the MPAA isn't likely to care about a drama only site it may be better to choose a name without "addicts" in it.
Last edited by tailchaser on May 22nd, '04, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by groink » May 22nd, '04, 17:44

Well, I'm one of the people who voted against j-addicts for the simple reason that I haven't been convinced that movies should still be under the *-addicts umbrella.

I believe ALL movies are possible MPAA infringements, whether they're Chinese, Hong Kong, Japanese, Korean, or whatever. I don't understand why Chinese movies are being treated differently from the others.

I think the entire philosophy here is totally out of whack, which will in turn bring on more MPAA problems. Let me explain... The two movies recently cited by the MPAA just happened to be Chinese movies. Though I respect Ruroshin in many ways, I think Ruroshin's thinking backwards here... He's thinking of the origin of the movie first, then the MPAA license. What he should be thinking instead is the REVERSE -- MPAA license first, THEN the origin of the movie. If you think this way, ALL MOVIES are considered possible MPAA infringements until proven otherwise.

Therefore, I don't see this problem as Chinese movie related. I see this problem as a MOVIES IN GENERAL problem. If you put up ANY movie site, you WILL continue to be watched by the MPAA and other organizations. You have to remember that members of the MPAA are just like each and everyone of us d-addicts users... If you create any new tracker sites, they'll find out about them just as easily as we can, simply by reading the same forum postings we're reading. I guarantee that the MPAA has Ruroshin targeted, and they WILL continue to track him and every move he makes (domain name registrations, etc.) I should know this because a huge part of my 9-to-5 job is U.S. national security. So I know how law enforcement organizations like these operate.

As a result, I conclude that Ruroshin totally stay out of the movie tracking business and stick with dramas, which do not fall under the MPAA. If people here still want a movie site, I'd recommend someone else start it up, and leave Ruroshin out of it.

Some recommendations:

- Invitation-only system. We're a close community, so people know other people. It's quite easy to obtain a recommendation from a current member.

- Moderated torrent addition system. No movies will appear until a moderator screens the torrent of all concerned licensing (MPAA, RIAA, DCMA, etc.)

- Write up a statement that include strict enforcement of its policies, including permanent deletion of accounts for those who constantly upload licensed content.

I may be totally anal about all of this... However, I believe the level of circumstances and consequences dictate this level of strictness.

--- groink

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Post by Takez0 » May 22nd, '04, 18:05

So what's is MPAA really after?

I'd assume those movies licensed for the American Market

Audition, The Ring falls under this category too

and chinese movies licensed by MiramaxE

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Post by lordruin » May 22nd, '04, 18:09

- Invitation-only system. We're a close community, so people know other people. It's quite easy to obtain a recommendation from a current member
I agree.....this has always been the safest method if people wish to download movies or music. However, some of us are newcomers and even though we are trustworthy, it may not be so easy to get a recommendation :)
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Post by groink » May 22nd, '04, 18:14

Takez0 wrote:So what's is MPAA really after? I'd assume those movies licensed for the American Market Audition, The Ring falls under this category too and chinese movies licensed by MiramaxE
The criteria the MPAA functions under are:

1. Movies owned or licensed by the following clients of the MPAA:
Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.
Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
Paramount Pictures Corporation
TriStar Pictures, Inc.
Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation
United Artists Pictures, Inc.
United Artists Corporation
Universal City Studios, LLLP
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

2. Ownership/licensing are also enforced by the MPAA for all subsidiaries of the above mentioned companies, both US domestic and foreign (Miramax, SONY, etc.)

Most people are thinking geography first, which is wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG! MPAA is not about geographical jurisdiction. Many people try to believe it so that it makes it easy for them to eye-ball what's licensed and what isn't. In short, even a movie coming out of Christmas Island or Zimbabwe can potentially be linked to the MPAA.

--- groink
1. Always read FAQs for a given forum before posting.
2. Read the first few posts in a topic before posting.
3. Speak using complete English words.
4. The Internet is international. Respect regional and cultural values.

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Post by jianwa » May 22nd, '04, 18:16

lordruin wrote:
- Invitation-only system. We're a close community, so people know other people. It's quite easy to obtain a recommendation from a current member
I agree.....this has always been the safest method if people wish to download movies or music. However, some of us are newcomers and even though we are trustworthy, it may not be so easy to get a recommendation :)
True True. I wonder how much it would cost to run a site like d-addicts if the main focus is movies and ost only?

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Post by BT-Slut » May 22nd, '04, 18:20

Takez0 wrote:So what's is MPAA really after?
They're after MONEY! God damn greedy bastards!

They only care about their own clients, and for the MPAA specifically, it's American Motion Picture companies. They don't give a rats ass about the pirating of Chinese movies made by the Chinese film companies.

The only reason Shaolin Soccer and Iron Monkey were targeted is because Shaolin Soccer is being distributed in the USA by Miramax Films and is in fact still playing in theaters. Iron Monkey is also being distributed in the USA by Miramax.

That is the only reason Ruro's site was targeted this time around. Green Tea that I was seeding was NOT being distributed by any USA film company. As far as I know, no US company has purchased the rights to distribute Green Tea.

I will respect the course that Ruro has set out for his site. Personally, I think it's overkill to terminate the distribution of Chinese films, especailly those from the mainland. In fact, the safest films to distribute would be the mainland Chinese films IMHO. I'm certain the MPA of Japan and the MPA of Korea are more zealous about protecting their films than the Chinese are. Frankly, I don't even think there is a MPA of China. The free flow distribution of films in China over the internet is just an accepted normal.

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Post by groink » May 22nd, '04, 18:34

BT-Slut wrote:no US company has purchased the rights to distribute Green Tea.
Could you PLEASE point me to a resource that says the move must be DISTRIBUTED in the U.S. in order for the MPAA to have any sort of ground for enforcement?

Like I said earlier... It's about LICENSING, not distribution. MGM for example can decide at any time to purchase a license for a Korean movie, and market it in Ethiopia. Though it will never be sold in any Wallmart store or be seen in any U.S. based theater, the MPAA still has a full international right to vigorously defend their licensed property.

And by the way... When did making money and enforcing intellectual property rights become a bad thing in this world? You should seriously join up with Michael Moore's organization because I think you'd fit in well with that crowd.

--- groink

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Post by ad » May 22nd, '04, 20:43

groink wrote:
And by the way... When did making money and enforcing intellectual property rights become a bad thing in this world? You should seriously join up with Michael Moore's organization because I think you'd fit in well with that crowd.

--- groink
Slightly off-topic. One can argue that when too much stuff falls into protected intellectual property category it slows down the progress. Look at what is going on in the hi-tech world. The big guys IBM, Intel, Microsoft created piles of patents. Of course, they infringe each other patents, but it just leads to patent exchange. But they effectively blocked little guys from entering the industry.

Now about the movies. I think currently MPAA cannot enforce their rights to all their movies. They are only trying to protect project that are bringing them the most, i.e. new theatre and DVD releases. So as long as we stay away from those we will be safe.

Also I don't agree that the bad guys specifically targeted Ruroshin, they just accidently discovered the site coz that f**ker posted torrents on supernova. If they were on our case places like FSS would have gone down with us.

I think groink is overreacting but he's got a point there. Perhaps, J-addicts is a bad choice of the name. We need a name that most people will avoid. ... Hmmmm.. What could that be? Ahh.. i know, how about MPAA-lawyers.com? :D

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Post by ar-a-mach » May 22nd, '04, 21:10

i totaly agree with groink sama, though i wouldn't bother keeping any movie here
i believe dorama and movie are different things and our passion is dorama even though we can appreciate asian movie.
I can't wait to recieve my "seven samourai" dvd :D

and please ppl be aware there are tons of sources for asian movie!! do you really want to jeopardize our dorama heaven for some stupid movie you could find anywhere???

^^;

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amovies

Post by krys » May 22nd, '04, 21:13

Obviously jmovies are as easy to get as k/cmovies, so you may consider naming the site amovies, as non-jmovies would surely be later hosted as well.

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Post by sephy » May 22nd, '04, 21:23

groink wrote:
BT-Slut wrote:no US company has purchased the rights to distribute Green Tea.
Could you PLEASE point me to a resource that says the move must be DISTRIBUTED in the U.S. in order for the MPAA to have any sort of ground for enforcement?

Like I said earlier... It's about LICENSING, not distribution. --- groink
Exactly
I said something similar on jdorama

Just because its not in the US doesn't mean anything. Someday people will realise the US isnt the center of the wrold ¬_¬

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Post by sephy » May 22nd, '04, 21:26

sephy wrote:
groink wrote:
BT-Slut wrote:no US company has purchased the rights to distribute Green Tea.
Could you PLEASE point me to a resource that says the move must be DISTRIBUTED in the U.S. in order for the MPAA to have any sort of ground for enforcement?

Like I said earlier... It's about LICENSING, not distribution. --- groink
Exactly
I said something similar on jdorama

Just because its not in the US doesn't mean anything. Someday people will realise the US isnt the center of the wrold ¬_¬

I'm for a j-movies site but it needs to have each torrent modded by checking the imdb for
english language audio/subs. Non english release's might not be an issue but that's something you would need to decide on seperately - i'm not qualified to give a sensible meaningfull opinion on that

works for anime though :p

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Post by BT-Slut » May 22nd, '04, 21:46

groink wrote: And by the way... When did making money and enforcing intellectual property rights become a bad thing in this world? You should seriously join up with Michael Moore's organization because I think you'd fit in well with that crowd.

--- groink
Funny you should mention Michael Moore. Here's something that's just been reported on AP news.
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Wins Cannes' Top Prize

CANNES, France - American filmmaker Michael Moore (news)'s "Fahrenheit 9/11," a scathing indictment of White House actions after the Sept. 11 attacks, won the top prize Saturday at the Cannes Film Festival.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" was the first documentary to win Cannes' prestigious Palme d'Or since Jacques Cousteau's and Louis Malle (news)'s "The Silent World" in 1956.
Good for Michael Moore! He's one true American and I'm proud to give him my full support as a fellow American!

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Post by Takez0 » May 22nd, '04, 22:05

BT-Slut wrote:
Funny you should mention Michael Moore. Here's something that's just been reported on AP news.
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Wins Cannes' Top Prize

CANNES, France - American filmmaker Michael Moore (news)'s "Fahrenheit 9/11," a scathing indictment of White House actions after the Sept. 11 attacks, won the top prize Saturday at the Cannes Film Festival.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" was the first documentary to win Cannes' prestigious Palme d'Or since Jacques Cousteau's and Louis Malle (news)'s "The Silent World" in 1956.
Good for Michael Moore! He's one true American and I'm proud to give him my full support as a fellow American!
In an unprecedented 20 minutes standing ovation :O

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Post by ad » May 22nd, '04, 22:17

BT-Slut wrote:
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Wins Cannes' Top Prize

CANNES, France - American filmmaker Michael Moore (news)'s "Fahrenheit 9/11," a scathing indictment of White House actions after the Sept. 11 attacks, won the top prize Saturday at the Cannes Film Festival.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" was the first documentary to win Cannes' prestigious Palme d'Or since Jacques Cousteau's and Louis Malle (news)'s "The Silent World" in 1956.
Good for Michael Moore! He's one true American and I'm proud to give him my full support as a fellow American!
Let's be fair. It's not because of the quality of the film, it's because Europeans are strongly anti-American. Can't blaim them, especially these days.

But let's face it, Michael Moore is a clown, with all due respect, and giving him the top prize is a travesty/.

Disclaimer: i'm not american either, nor do i support the current administration. I also intend to see the movie just to give him my $10 and support free speech.
Last edited by ad on May 22nd, '04, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MoerkJ » May 22nd, '04, 22:19

Hi,
i don't need j-addicts and voted no. i think there are other good sites already. so you can spare your precious time & money.

another reason is that i don't like the Bittorrent protocol very much at the moment, especially when it comes to movies. :glare: It's just too insecure because it lacks privacy. I rather prefer an ed2k-client which supports ipfilters.
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Post by krys » May 22nd, '04, 22:20

And most probably all that only thanks to anti-usa hysteria.

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Post by krys » May 22nd, '04, 22:22

ad wrote:Let's be fair. It's not because of the quality of the film, it's because Europeans are strongly anti-American.
You have forgotten "some".

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Post by ad » May 22nd, '04, 22:29

MoerkJ wrote:Hi,
i don't need j-addicts and voted no. i think there are other good sites already. so you can spare your precious time & money.

another reason is that i don't like the Bittorrent protocol very much at the moment, especially when it comes to movies. :glare:
Ed2k is not anonymous either. People, repeat after me: Internet is not anonymous. ( unless you do ip spoofing) Ed2k shifts responsibility to the peers, so they will get the letters instead. But in real life the bad guys got after the ed2k link sites, too. Sharereactor was seized, remember?
MoerkJ wrote:
It's just too insecure because it lacks privacy. I rather prefer an ed2k-client which supports ipfilters.
I bet you could run BT on top of such a filter. It'll be a separate app that will close tcp connections with the hosts on the list. e.g. Peerguardian.

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Post by BT-Slut » May 22nd, '04, 22:42

ad wrote: Let's be fair. It's not because of the quality of the film, it's because Europeans are strongly anti-American. Can't blaim them, especially these days.

But let's face it, Michael Moore is a clown, with all due respect, and giving him the top prize is a travesty/.
Hmmm... if he's a clown, he's getting some serious awards for being a clown. In 2002 he won an Oscar (Academy) Award for Best Documentary for Bowling for Columbine. And now in 2004, he's won the Cannes Best Film for Fahrenheit 9/11.

But Moore knew some Americans would react in the manner Ad is reacting. Here's what he had to say about that:
Moore said after the ceremony that he expected right-wing media outlets in the United States to characterize his prize as an award from the French, whose government opposed the U.S.-led war on Iraq. He noted that the nine-person Cannes jury that awarded prizes had only one French member and four Americans, including jury president Quentin Tarantino and actress Kathleen Turner.
I haven't seen F 9/11 yet myself, so I can't comment on how good it is. But I expect good things from Michael Moore, so I'm looking foward to seeing it when it's released.
Last edited by BT-Slut on May 22nd, '04, 22:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Slackey
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Post by Slackey » May 22nd, '04, 22:43

Although I would love to get access to more j-movies, I voted NO to the idea. The US market is steadily licensing j-movies in the US that it's a challenge to figure out if a movie is already released, will be released, licensed, etc. And I doubt anyone really wants to research every movie being uploaded to make sure it's safe. Also, I really don't see the point to it as A LOT of j-movies are being released with English subtitles. Though the DVDs thmselves are official Japanese DVDs and are therefore expensive, the point is, it's out there and if you really want to see it, just pony up the money for it (I know it's easier said than done since many of us, including a broke college student myself, don't have a lot of money to spend on DVDs). But, I rather save up for those DVDs than going thorugh the headache d-addicts had a couple of days ago.

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Post by Ruroshin » May 22nd, '04, 23:25

I pulled the cmovies because there are many licensed (outside of their origin) HK movies, far more than kmovies and jmovies put together.

Well for now I'll put this idea on the shelf, there are exams coming up for me anyway but I still would like to hear more arguments for and against the idea.

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Post by jholic » May 22nd, '04, 23:42

boy! as the name suggests, i was very eager to put in my vote for a j-addicts site. (if you guys didn't want to use j-addicts, you could have used jholics :glare: ). but after reading groink's post, i'll admit i changed my mind.

first and foremost, i don't want Ruroshin getting in trouble. he's done such a great service for all of us, and i certainly wouldn't want my selfish desires to land him in a tiny cell w/ someone named 'bubba'. :cry: (even if i appreciate his offer of generosity)

i also agree w/ the other thing that groink said. if Ruroshin doesn't do it, someone else probably will. and since Sauron's eye is watching 'ol Ruro and his every move, let some other hobbit sneak over to the volcano. :mrgreen:

speaking of licensing and distribution, could anyone enlighten me why DRAMAS (which i thought were also on dvd and distributed elsewhere) are still ok? :unsure:

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Post by MoerkJ » May 22nd, '04, 23:59

jholic wrote:speaking of licensing and distribution, could anyone enlighten me why DRAMAS (which i thought were also on dvd and distributed elsewhere) are still ok? :unsure:
because they are not made available for the western market and probably never will. same applies to a lot of asian movies, but unfortunately not all. :lol
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Post by groink » May 23rd, '04, 00:16

jholic wrote:speaking of licensing and distribution, could anyone enlighten me why DRAMAS (which i thought were also on dvd and distributed elsewhere) are still ok? :unsure:
A little background on the entertainment industry first, then I can explain about TV in particular...

Both the MPAA and the RIAA were created to have a central voice among the industry executives. In particular, the MPAA was created in the early 1900's as a means of organizing the Hollywood film industry when operations were moved from the east coast to the west. Ironically, the reason for the move was so that the film industry in New York wouldn't be hit by patent infringing laws currently owned by Thomas Edison (he owned the patent to the moving picture concept). And in those days, moving west made it 100 times more difficult for Edison to persue litigation. That's the history lesson for today.

Now for the explanation about television. Unlike the movie and record industries, television does not have a centralized association tying the various companies like CBS, ABC, NBC, HBO, etc. As a result, each of the companies must defend their copyrighted intellectual properties themselves. However, most of the TV companies were actually okay with all of this during the days of Betamax and VHS. I don't think they're doing that much to crack down on electronic TV recording off the broadcasts because, in theory, you could claim the recordings are under the "fair use" guidelines, which is what most of the pro-sharing groups are hiding behind.

However, what the TV networks are now vigorously persuing are the bootlegged DVD packages of the exact same content. So I want to mention, for the record, that unlike what a lot of people believe, the TV networks are actually persuing the illegal DVD rips of stuff like Frasier, NYPD Blue, Star Trek, etc.

Now, that's all occuring the United States. As I've mentioned time and time again, Japanese dramas are not licensed by any of the big American associations. However, just like all of the other American TV broadcasts, Japanese drama broadcasts are also licensed, but fall under that same "fair use" claim. Same with the DVD packages, the Japanese drama DVD packages are also licensed by their respective TV networks (FUJI-TV, TV Asahi, TBS, NHK, etc.) So I'd like to right now kill the myth where Japanese dramas, as well as k/hk/c/tw/etc., are not being persued. They actually are persuing illegal duplication of their intellectual properties. The Japanese media may not be reporting the crackdowns, which may be why none of you, including myself, have ever heard about any crackdowns of people bootlegging Long Vacation. You have to remember that in Japanese culture, litigation over intellectual properties is very uncommon. However, that really doesn't give any of us the right to take full advantage of their culture and customs by reeping of their intellectual properties.

What does all of this mean? It means that we're all committing the exact same crimes with Japanese dramas as all the others with shows like The Sopranos and The X-Factor. I don't know about the rest of you, but my personal stance is this: the day FUJI-TV, TBS, NHK, or anyone else starts filling my e-mail inbox with letters, I will immediately stop everything.

On the other hand, none of the people voting in favor of j-addicts are learning anything from Ruroshin's experience. I have several posts here of people laughing at me for saying that with all the DVD movie rips being posted on d-addicts, the MPAA will send Ruroshin a letter. Well, I hate to pat myself on the back and everything, but I was 100-percent correct on my prediction. It made total sense for him to receive the letter.

That's why, earlier, I voted NO on j-addicts. Most of you YES guys are sounding more like a moonshine running operation. It was nice at the time you were getting your free movies. Now you're totally addicted!!!! And you can't stop! You're in full denial of all the MPAA stuff going on. And you use all that pro-fair use propaganda to keep helping you think that all of this bootlegging is okay.

Ruroshin is totally correct when he uses the term "addict" in these names. Running from place to place and hiding behind firewalls and such... Do you think this is NORMAL???? Most of you have actually become addicts -- and the addiction is right up there with alcohol and drugs. I'm a one-drink-per-day person when it comes to dramas, so I have my liking for the taste under control. But most of you.... I don't know -- I really don't think any of you can quit.

--- groink

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Post by in-sung » May 23rd, '04, 00:28

i agree with the whole MPAA argument. The way to get around this is by simply posting films that haven't been licensed by any U.S. companies. You just have to keep up with what films have been purchased, which happens mainly at festivals and film market screenings. There are approximately 40 korean films that have been licensed, and countless Chinese films (mainly because of Tai-Seng, which is covered by the MPAA) Ruroshin was right to state that most Japanese (recent) films have not been licensed on average when compared to Korea-China. I have a pretty accurate and up-to-date list of films that are licensed in the U.S. if anyone needs references. Just some food for thought:
My Wife is a Gangster = being made into Queen Latifah vehicle
Infernal Affairs Trilogy = all films purchased by Brad Pitt's company, first movie being made now
Ring trilogy, Dark Water, Ju-on rights, etc. = all purchased by American companies
Marrying the Mafia, My Sassy Girl, etc = all purchased....
as i said before a lot of films have been purchased, with the majority being remade with American actors :x to be released in the states...others are being held till studios think money can be made....but, it is still possible to have a movie site, you just have to make sure the films haven't been bought by U.S. distributors....a good example are anime fansub sites, which are careful to cancel distro of series, movies, OVA's the moment they get licensed. I'm not saying it's right to share unlicensed films, but the chances of the MPAA coming down on you for unlicensed material is very, very slim....in fact, I doubt it would happen. just my two cents.


oh yea, Michael Moore is a clown......AND HELLO , 2046(wong kar wai)????? MICHAEL MOORE OVER 2046, OLD BOY, HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS, WOMAN IS THE FUTURE OF MAN??????? Europe (and Hollywood) really do hate Americans....bastards :lol
(that was a joke, don't flip out people)
...아이구~~~~~~~ :unsure:

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Post by ad » May 23rd, '04, 00:39

groink wrote:
Ruroshin is totally correct when he uses the term "addict" in these names. Running from place to place and hiding behind firewalls and such... Do you think this is NORMAL???? Most of you have actually become addicts -- and the addiction is right up there with alcohol and drugs. I'm a one-drink-per-day person when it comes to dramas, so I have my liking for the taste under control. But most of you.... I don't know -- I really don't think any of you can quit.

--- groink
If people here are addicts then so are 95% of American and European population. 95% of the popupation watch TV every night. And I bet they will have a withdrawal reaction once you take they TV set away.

I agree with groink though on the moonshine running operation. We shouldn't marginalize ourselves. I'm for sharing artsy hard-to-get movies but definitely against posting DVD rips of the newest releases.

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Post by aoi » May 23rd, '04, 14:28

I do not agree with groink and voted for J-Addicts. The MPAA has explained several times not to sue users of p2p-networks, at least not now.
However, the MPAA sends mails to the providers if users distribute copyright protected movies on P2P networks . This is primarily a scare tactics and known since summer, 2001. Complaints against these users have not occurred.

The MPAA concentrates to pursue big releasegroups which publish us-american movies before or during their theatrical release.
Should the MPAA decide, nevertheless to sue users of p2p networks, it will be announced presumably like the RIAA did this before. This would be an opportunity to close the website.

PS: I consider the distribution of movies in P2P networks not as a crime. At least not in the moral sense. The suitable laws like the DMCA were dismissed by corrupt politicians after a massive lobbyingcampaign of the entertainment industry.

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Post by beer » May 23rd, '04, 22:17

The separate site makes sense when it's purpose is not to let d-addicts be affected when something licensed should again be posted, even if inadvertently. Then again, if it's already set apart, strict rules are set about checking for possible license violations and stuff, why should it be limited to Japanese movies? Or then again, if strict rules are set and followed, why does it have to ba a separate site?

FWIW there are three things I have against a separate site as laid out now:
1 - it's separate;
2 - it's limited to Japanese movies;
3 - it's still run by the same person.

1) there are already different places. If it serves the needs of this community, then it splits the community - not intentionally, but nevertheless; on the other hand - considering all the topics about seeding/leeching one has to wonder whether it's working as a community after all, except for a core group of people. And possibly some groupies.
2) I'm afraid Japanese movies are less than 10% in my Asian movies 'collection'; on the other hand this may be because when multiple torrents are up I click on dramas first, then movies, if I still have the bandwidth and/or disk space resources.
3) while I have nothing against one person running many sites that I visit, the fact remains that should there be another warning letter to ISP (or worse), then if will still be targeted against the same person. While the eggs have been put in two baskets, both baskets are still carried by him. Then again, it's his decision, not mine.

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Post by groink » May 23rd, '04, 22:27

aoi wrote:I do not agree with groink and voted for J-Addicts..
I have a fantastic idea! What you should do is get together with BT-Slut and all of your other pro-bootlegging friends and start your own forum and file exchange site. And then when the license owners visit your site, you can be the recipient of all those wonderful MPAA e-mails. The great thing about this is that you'll help the rest of the other folks be protected from the MPAA and you'll take all of the abuse!!!! It's a total win-win scenario for your guys' fight, right????

All of this anti-MPAA talk is just talk!!!! Let's see you guys start running a movie site of your own, and put your so-called freedom where you mouth is. It's easy talking the talk when you're just using other people's facilities for your sharing, and letting people like Ruroshin take all the heat for you.

At least I have the balls to run my own tracker.

--- groink

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Post by ad » May 24th, '04, 01:24

Again, groink has a point but his arguments are based on two questionable presumptions i need to rebut.
groink wrote: What you should do is get together with BT-Slut and all of your other pro-bootlegging friends and start your own forum and file exchange site.
First, sharing is wrong. Let me ask you, boys and girls, a simple question: have you ever borrowed a book from a friend orat the library? Do you think it was ok? The author in this case doesn't receive any additional revenue. Still you don't think it was wrong? Do i hear you saying that people have done it for the last 1000 years. Ok, i rest my case.
groink wrote:All of this anti-MPAA talk is just talk!!!! Let's see you guys start running a movie site of your own, and put your so-called freedom where you mouth is. It's easy talking the talk when you're just using other people's facilities for your sharing, and letting people like Ruroshin take all the heat for you.

At least I have the balls to run my own tracker.

--- groink
The second presumption is the copyright infrigment is criminal. There was only one case of criminal prosecution, againt the guy who booleged DVD-screener. Well, i'm with you on this one, he deserved jail time.

Nobody forces Ruroshin to run a movies site. He suggested it himself. And of course, if he thinks that sharing j-movies is immoral and/or criminal he shouldn't do it.

However, don't confuse us with bootlegers. We are a small community of people interested in Japanise culture who want to share hard-to-get dramas and movies with each other. Look at # of finished downloads of japanese movies. It's below 200.

I don't think Ruroshin should host movies like Cassern or mainstream stuff like Kitano movies. You can find them at Blockbuster. I'm talking about movies like Laundry and Postman Blues. Go check on imdb.com they haven't been released in the US or Uk and a fat chance they will.

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Post by sait0u » May 24th, '04, 01:39

it would be great. would be better to have other movies like korean and chinese too.
but in the other hand...don't want anyone to get into any kind of situation.

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Post by vibius » May 24th, '04, 02:13

ad wrote:First, sharing is wrong. Let me ask you, boys and girls, a simple question: have you ever borrowed a book from a friend orat the library? Do you think it was ok? The author in this case doesn't receive any additional revenue. Still you don't think it was wrong? Do i hear you saying that people have done it for the last 1000 years. Ok, i rest my case.
Sorry, but that does not apply to re-distributing a copyrighted work over the net. US copyright law (at least) states that this is clearly illegal. Copyright law is very clear that the owner of the copyright owns the right to determine how the work is to be distributed.

The only "right" a consumer has, is the right to time-shift (The Betamax case, decided by the SCOTUS 1984) and to space-shift (the Rio case in 1999, if you recall) for PERSONAL use, if you make one copy and give it to a friend, that is not personal use anymore. The consumer does not have the right to copy a copyrighted work, and then pass it around. If you think that is not the case, I'd be very interested in seeing a citation.

By borrowing a book from the library, you are not copying it. It gets returned to the library (or your friend). Copyright law is not involved.
The second presumption is the copyright infrigment is criminal. ... However, don't confuse us with bootlegers.
True, copyright infringement (at least in the US) is usually a matter of civil law, unless it is a big case, in which case, as you point out, it can be prosecuted in criminal court, that's usually when the damages are quite high. But as with all civil law, anyone can bring a case whether or not it really has merit. Defending yourself is extremely costly in terms of money and time. Better to just avoid the issue. I believe that is part of Groink's point.

This topic seems to always start flame wars. But I haven't really seen anyone demonstrate a good understanding of copyright law.
If you are interested, the US code not that hard a read:
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html

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Post by tailchaser » May 24th, '04, 02:16

IMDB doesn't list Postman Blues as having been released in Japan either, which is kind of funny.

Let's not turn this thread into a discussion of the ethics of copyright enfringement please. Let's leave those debates to Slashdot or whereever. We all have our own beliefs about that. If ruroshin is running the site, his beliefs on the topic are the only ones that matter. I will just say that I think any movie site should only be for those rarest of movies that cannot be found any other way with English subs, whether Japanese or Chinese or whatever. If they are so rare that buying a DVD-R from Ebay is the only way to see it then it is worthy of inclusion.

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What do you guys think?

Post by kalium » May 24th, '04, 02:56

Do you guys think someone actually has or should have the control over the Internet? For me it must maintain it's status as a boundaryless place with anonymous users. It must also continue being a miasma of free knowledge and information. It gives little individuals like us power to fight against the big ones who believed could control our lives with their conspiracies. This is just a thought which is not directly related to what I will say next, but nonetheless is still important.
I've been reading various of the posts and I can conclude that the issue here is not piracy anymore. I do feel guilt when I get these freebies but we must be realistic about something. These people (referring to MPAA, RIAA and many artists) earn millions, not thousands, but MILLIONS for their work. They live luxurious lives and I bet they do not do as many efforts as us commoners in our daily lives. Ironically, now they feel their paradisiac lives are endangered by us, the little ones who have always been looked down at as powerless minions who have actually given many of these artists their demigod status. (which is a great foolishness because we know they couldnt willingly spend all their money quickly, and if they do it's because theyre a bunch of idiots who cant administer their possessions well).
It is like a struggle between David and Goliath in a certain way. Who is to win in the end, no one knows for sure.
I propose a splendid idea to solve a bunch of issues. From now on people who access the internet should pay a moderate standard additional fee to their ISP's that may account for everything that is downloaded in a month and is of value. Just like a monthy cable fee or something like that. Of course, the ones on top (MPAA, etc) will have to live in a humbler manner because revenues will not be as high (will still be a hell lot! though), but in the other hand they will save themselves many distribution-related costs. They will definately have to stop caring about people copying what they have downloaded afterwards. I mean, its their problem. If I buy something and I do not value my money and want to give it out to my friends, it is MY problem. I know there are many selfish human beings out there who will not follow this trend so in that case the licensing companies will be safe. You are all free to flame me if you do not agree with me. That'll freshen up my ideas and I will be very grateful. I'm just trying to reach a midpoint here. What would the net be without all these things anyway? Think a little about it.
everything is relative and infinite...

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Post by ad » May 24th, '04, 03:34

vibius wrote: If you are interested, the US code not that hard a read:
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html
i'm not interested in the US copyright law. Nor do i think it is relevant because we are talking about j-movies. Personally, i strongly dislike the current international copyright laws. But i don't want to start a flame war and would like to stick to the topic of discussion.
vibius wrote:
By borrowing a book from the library, you are not copying it. It gets returned to the library (or your friend). Copyright law is not involved.
What i was trying to argue is that the concept of the law is old and cannot be unambigously applied to the modern communication.

In the case of borrowing a book transmission and copying are well-defined events. When applied to electronic communications they become blurred.

What if i use a webcamera to show you a page of a book, will it be ok? Can i watch my DVD with friends? What if i transmit a video steam from a DVD played on my computer, so we can watch it at your place. They only difference between streaming video (that you can also save ) and p2p that p2p makes a _digital_ copy. But if you delete the copy after watching will it be different from borrowing the DVD?
vibius wrote:But as with all civil law, anyone can bring a case whether or not it really has merit. Defending yourself is extremely costly in terms of money and time. Better to just avoid the issue. I believe that is part of Groink's point.l
Sorry, your logic defeats itself here. If they can sue you for no reason, then running a web site won't change anything. They can sue you anyways, right?

Let's summarize our discussion.

I see two points of view.

1.( presented by groink) Sharing is immoral. I guys have to mend your way and accept Jack Valenti as your savior or you'll burn in hell.

Can't beat this. If Ruroshin thinks so too, then he shouldn't do it. I suggest he shut down d-addicts too, and make a piligrimage to Hollywood and Japallywood to ask for forgiveness of his sins.

2. (presented by vibius and groink) Sharing is illigall and against the US laws.

What's legal and what 's illigal can only be decided in a court ( unless you are an enemy combatant ). We just have to estimate the risk of having such problems. RIAA did sue people sharing "american" music for money. But in that case it was shared on Kazaa with 100 million people. And we have a community of 300 people. Also MPAA haven't sued any p2p sile sharers yet. So right now the risk is minimal. in the future the situation may change but it's very easy to pull the plug.

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Post by vibius » May 24th, '04, 04:09

ad wrote:Nor do i think it is relevant because we are talking about j-movies.
I'm sorry, I thought it was relevant because the MPAA is an American institution, and I believe the d-addicts site is hosted by an American ISP, and they have already shut down d-addicts once.
What i was trying to argue is that the concept of the law is old and cannot be unambigously applied to the modern communication.

In the case of borrowing a book transmission and copying are well-defined events. When applied to electronic communications they become blurred.

What if i use a webcamera to show you a page of a book, will it be ok?
Probably, under fair use, which says you may use a small extract for personal purposes.
Can i watch my DVD with friends?
The law is quite clear that this is allowed.
What if i transmit a video steam from a DVD played on my computer, so we can watch it at your place.
Most likely allowed since time-shifting and space-shifting have been allowed by US courts.
They only difference between streaming video (that you can also save ) and p2p that p2p makes a _digital_ copy. But if you delete the copy after watching will it be different from borrowing the DVD?
Sorry I don't follow you here. If you put a copy on P2P, that is clearly NOT allowed. You are now distributing the entire work without permission of the copyright holder.
vibius wrote:But as with all civil law, anyone can bring a case whether or not it really has merit. Defending yourself is extremely costly in terms of money and time. Better to just avoid the issue. I believe that is part of Groink's point.
Sorry, your logic defeats itself here. If they can sue you for no reason, then running a web site won't change anything. They can sue you anyways, right?
Sorry, but you are misrepresenting my position. I don't think that a copyright holder will start randomly suing. I do think they may start suing people they believe (with or without merit) infringe on their copyrights. The merit part will be decided in the courts, as usual. We're talking about taking reasonable steps to minimize risk. Obviously there is higher risk with distributing copyrighted works that are being actively protected by their owners.
Also MPAA haven't sued any p2p sile sharers yet. So right now the risk is minimal. in the future the situation may change but it's very easy to pull the plug.
The fact is, the MPAA has already warned this site once. I see that as raising the risk. If it happens again, it is not unreasonable to imagine that the consequences might get more serious.

Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate a little bit because there seems to be a lot of ignorance about copyright here. I think it is important to at least understand the law.

Personally, I'd like to see copyright reform. I'd like to see some limited sharing allowed. But hey, I'd also like to be married to Matsu Takako, and darn my luck, that ain't likely to happen.

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Post by jholic » May 24th, '04, 04:43

MoerkJ and groink: just wanted to thank you for answer ing my question and enlightening me about the situation. it looks like this thread has become quite a heated topic of discussion!

i did want to point out one thing, though. most dramas make their profits off of advertising during the tv air. i'm not sure how much money is made from dvd sales (especially in japan). but the topic would hit closer to home if you had a close relative working in the industry.

imagine if your sister became like jasmine trias and went very far in american idol. it's very possible she will get a great record deal. how would you feel if you later asked all of your friends if they bought her cd, and they answered, "oh, heck no! but i d/led all of her songs off of the net for free."

as a fellow bt member, i have no room to talk about getting things for free, but i think with all of the trouble this may cause, it's not worth it to be so greedy. yes, maybe the RARE movies would be ok to share, but i think dramas would be pretty fine with me....

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Post by 206 » May 24th, '04, 05:39

I read that there is a lot of fear about copyright issues and we all must know that sharing keeps someone from making money which is the issue. It all comes down to what are you willing to live and deal with, the risks, to satisfy everybody's addiction for this genre of media.

I really appreciate all the work that is done making the subs assuming that the J-movies don't come with them. I remember as a kid many years ago going to the Japanese theatres and just about all of the movies had subtitles. I found that seeing the movies reminded me of those days where I really enjoyed watching them each week. Many have shared some good movies and it would be a loss to not have a site for it but I understand the risks and rewards can be limited.
Favorite Dramas:
Yamato Nandeshiko - Long Vacation - Orange Days - Hana Yori Dango - Last Christmas
Tokyo Love Story - Densha Otoko - Hero - Sekai no chushin de ai wo sakebu
Proposal Daisakusen - Last Friends

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Post by ad » May 24th, '04, 05:42

vibius wrote: Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate a little bit because there seems to be a lot of ignorance about copyright here. I think it is important to at least understand the law.
Knowing and understanding the law is only important for lawyers. In real life it's more useful to understand the practice of law enforcement.
vibius wrote: The fact is, the MPAA has already warned this site once. I see that as raising the risk. If it happens again, it is not unreasonable to imagine that the consequences might get more serious.
This is a valid point. So you are saying that they've got his name and if he gets caught running a BT tracker on j-addicts that won't look good. I absolutely agree with you.

The only solution would be to use somebody else's name for the site.

However, first, they haven't sued anybody yet. and second, if we keep low profile and avoid leaks to suprnova (there are ways of doing this) we won't have any problems.
vibius wrote: I'd also like to be married to Matsu Takako, and darn my luck, that ain't likely to happen.
That makes two of us. :D

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Post by Ruroshin » May 24th, '04, 13:56

After taking the advice from friends and people that I trust and opinions that I value here, I have decided not to create j-addicts. I'm sorry if I got any of your hopes up. Instead I will concentrate on improving d-addicts.

I'm sure we'll lose a lot of visitors and contributers to the site without the movies but thanks for all the fish.

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Post by BT-Slut » May 24th, '04, 14:10

Ruroshin wrote:After taking the advice from friends and people that I trust and opinions that I value here, I have decided not to create j-addicts. I'm sorry if I got any of your hopes up. Instead I will concentrate on improving d-addicts.

I'm sure we'll lose a lot of visitors and contributers to the site without the movies but thanks for all the fish.
It would be your ass on the line, so I respect your decision. I suspect someone will open another site for all asian movies again using BT technology. In the mean time, all you movie seekers need to learn how to use the ed2k network (eMule and eDonkey2000). There's no way to shut down ed2k centrally like they could with a BT tracker takedown.

Best wishes in your future endeavors Ruroshin.

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Post by sephy » May 24th, '04, 14:20

BT-Slut wrote:In the mean time, all you movie seekers need to learn how to use the ed2k network (eMule and eDonkey2000). There's no way to shut down ed2k centrally like they could with a BT tracker takedown.
One word - "napster"
(and I mean napster when it was free)

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Post by hakurey » May 24th, '04, 14:50

sephy wrote: One word - "napster"
(and I mean napster when it was free)
what do you mean by this?
oh yes your quoting above in the above post is a bit inaccurate, you must've missed a bracket or something.
What kind of adult we'll be depends on what it'll leave us.
Where did you steal this sentence from?

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Post by vibius » May 24th, '04, 15:15

ad wrote:Knowing and understanding the law is only important for lawyers.
Well, I strongly disagree :) I feel that people should educate themselves about the law so they can make informed decisions. Perhaps we should just leave it there.
Last edited by vibius on May 24th, '04, 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What do you guys think?

Post by beer » May 24th, '04, 16:12

Quote of the day:
For me it [the Internet] must maintain it's status as a boundaryless place with anonymous users.
8)

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Post by BT-Slut » May 24th, '04, 16:26

hakurey wrote:
sephy wrote: One word - "napster"
(and I mean napster when it was free)
what do you mean by this?
oh yes your quoting above in the above post is a bit inaccurate, you must've missed a bracket or something.
sephy is showing his ignorance of p2p technologies. He's under the mis-guided impression that either Napster is decentralized or that ed2k is centralized. He's comparing apples with oranges.

Napster got completely shut down because the servers were centralized at Napster, Inc. That was its downfall: way too centralized. ed2k network is not centralized at all. It's based on private servers run by indivuals all around the world. We just need a few servers in North Korea, Iran and Cuba and it'll be completely untouchable by the evil forces of the MPAA or RIAA. (Yes, there's a tiny bit of sarcasism in that last sentence, but not much.)

vibius wrote: Well, I strongly disagree I feel that people should educate themselves about the law so they can make informed decisions. Perhaps we should just leave it there.
I agree whole heartedly. But let's not forget the second part of this and that is laws are made by the people through their representitives--at least in the USA--for the betterment of people. Laws are also constantly being challenged and changed. Just because it was the law to legally segregate the blacks doesn't make it right or permanent. Ultimately it was changed. These draconian copyright laws will be overturned eventually. 60 million music downloaders--in the USA alone--can't possibly all be considered criminals. When more people "copyright infringe" than the number of people who voted in the last Presidential election, then something is inherently wrong with the law. The people have spoken with their actions already. It's only a matter of time before politicall action is taken to correct the wrong and injustice of the current copyright laws.
Last edited by BT-Slut on May 24th, '04, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by NiXZe » May 24th, '04, 16:27

I'm still for the idea of just that kind of place that this thread is refering to! however Ruroshin is not the one to have the direct responsibility for it! And if i don't see that kind of place in the near future i will try and start that kind of place, and in that case i will hoppe that it will be with the support of d-addicts!
What? Where? Oh this one, it''s Gentoo!

Don''t blame me i''m just a cute panda.

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Post by BT-Slut » May 24th, '04, 16:41

Ruroshin wrote:After taking the advice from friends and people that I trust and opinions that I value here, I have decided not to create j-addicts. I'm sorry if I got any of your hopes up. Instead I will concentrate on improving d-addicts.

I'm sure we'll lose a lot of visitors and contributers to the site without the movies but thanks for all the fish.
Ruro, if you really believe their arguments then may I suggest that you promptly kill off all movie torrents now. Don't wait for the 60 day timeout. Kill off all the Japanese and Korean movie torrents now as well. Better to be safe than sorry.

I think this would be a very consistent course of action and no one could fault you for taking this course.

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Post by maiko303 » May 24th, '04, 16:54

While I can understand some peoples paranoia that bringing j-addicts into existence may somehow jeopardise the safety of d-addicts, I for one cant see how this can be when Ruroshin has already stated on his opening post that j-addicts would be hosted on a completely different server to avoid such problems. People seem to have missed/ignored that part.

Secondly, d-addicts had its recent problems simply because there were torrents to films licensed in the US. It didn't matter at all that they are hk movies, they may as well have been Hollywood movies if they are licensed by certain American companies.
If J-addicts only hosts torrents for non US licensed Asian movies then I really cant see it having any problems. When was the last time anyone heard of any site that only deals in Japanese/Asian content being shut down? I haven't heard of any ;)

Anyway, remember that those that shout the loudest aren't always right ;)

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Post by beer » May 24th, '04, 17:08

maiko303 wrote:While I can understand some peoples paranoia that bringing j-addicts into existence may somehow jeopardise the safety of d-addicts, I for one cant see how this can be when Ruroshin has already stated on his opening post that j-addicts would be hosted on a completely different server to avoid such problems. People seem to have missed/ignored that part.
You obviously missed that part that said Ruroshin would run that site as well. Lawsuits are not filed agains servers but people who run them.
maiko303 wrote:Secondly, d-addicts had its recent problems simply because there were torrents to films licensed in the US. It didn't matter at all that they are hk movies, they may as well have been Hollywood movies if they are licensed by certain American companies.
Did you spot those movies at once realizing that was licensed stuff and a no-no for a community that wants to survive?
maiko303 wrote:When was the last time anyone heard of any site that only deals in Japanese/Asian content being shut down? I haven't heard of any ;)
That's weird. I could have sworn you mentioned 'recent problems' yourself. I would appreciate to know in what way they differed from being shut down.

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Post by maiko303 » May 24th, '04, 17:35

@ Beer - I'm not about to quote you and turn this into a messy, hard to read post so here are my responses:

Point 1. But lawsuits generally have to brought up separately. Also, say if I ran a site with blatantly licensed material on (not that j-addicts would be that of course), and was taken to court, why would that affect my other site which was run on a separate server, and *didn't* host such material. Do you think the MPAA /courts would try to shut down my other site just out of spite?


Point 2. Yes I did spot those movies pretty much straight away. Did you? I was unaware though, at that time that d-addicts had a policy of not posting US licensed Asian movies on its site.


Point 3.It differs in that the films posted were licensed in the US. I was referring to non US licensed Asian movies.

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Post by Slackey » May 24th, '04, 19:21

maiko303 wrote:@ Beer - I'm not about to quote you and turn this into a messy, hard to read post so here are my responses:

Point 1. But lawsuits generally have to brought up separately. Also, say if I ran a site with blatantly licensed material on (not that j-addicts would be that of course), and was taken to court, why would that affect my other site which was run on a separate server, and *didn't* host such material. Do you think the MPAA /courts would try to shut down my other site just out of spite?
Well, I'm a paranoid person in general when it comes to these types of things I think of the worst as the most possible outcome so that's why I said no. If j-addicts was run, and lets say Ruroshin was sued and had to be brought up on copyright charges, it would most likely lead to the end of d-addicts. How? Well, of course they'll find out that he has another tracker filled with Japanese dramas. People on this board seem to forget that even though the dramas on this site are not licensed in the US, it doesn't mean we aren't violating copyright laws. We are violating Japanese laws. And the TV captures on this site are violating US broadcasting laws. We are all, in theory, bootleggers because of that fact. Copyright laws don't end just because we are in another country. Right now, no company is looking at the dorama community as a ring of bootleggers and they are letting us continue to share with each other. If j-addicts was run , the Japanese companies will see that we cost them business and, maybe in spite because of that fact, will want to exercise there right to shut d-addcits down as well.

You are too naive to think that d-addicts won't be shut down out of spite for what happens on j-addicts. Business is business, and if it means that shutting down both trackers is what it takes to drive the message home, then they will. If the US music industry had the guts to sue a 12 yr. old girl for copyright infringement, what makes you think the MPAA won't try to convince Japanese companies into suing about d-aadicts? Do you actually think they won't try and shut down d-addicts out of spite? Wouldn't you try to shut down both trackers just you can teach some copyright violating punk kid a lesson? (Sorry Ruroshin didn't mean to call you a punk kid! Just trying to drive the message home)

My point is d-addcits isn't under a microscope and we basically have free reign. I think the creation of j-addcits would have changed that and may lead to d-addcits closing. Well it doesn't really matter now anyways since Ruroshin won't be making j-addicts.....

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Post by groink » May 24th, '04, 20:10

Some points to make here:

1. When looking up d-addicts in the InterNIC registry, Ruroshin's REAL name and address appear. So that's what I mean by the movie organizations knowing who Ruroshin really is, and are also now able to track any future domain names he registers, no matter what registry he uses.

2. The server running d-addicts.net not only shut down that domain, it also shut down God knows how many other domains on that same server.

3. Again, Ruroshin is NOT the grandmaster of BT trackers. It's quite easy to run your own BT server:

a. Purchase either a dedicated or shared server outside of the U.S.

b. Have verbal or written assurance by the ISP that they will not shut you down in case they're ever faced with a letter from a movie or record association.

c. Make sure the ISP allows for unlimited bandwidth. Trackers do take a lot of it every month.

d. Do NOT seed on the same hardware as the tracker. If the tracker is hosting the actual binaries on the same hardware platform, the ISP can have grounds to shut it down, therefore affecting the tracker as well. Always isolate the seeding box from the tracker box.

So again, there must be one of you people who are able to start a movie tracker without bringing Ruroshin in on it. Or are you scared to do it??????????

--- groink

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