OL Nippon [Eng Subs] (Ep 1-4)[DROPPED]

You can find/upload subtitle files for tv drama series here.
Please use the Fansubbing forum to discuss subtitles.
Haruspex
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OL Nippon [Eng Subs] (Ep 1-4)[DROPPED]

Postby Haruspex » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:45 am

Hi All!

Time to work on one of the Fall 2008 series, this time it's "OL Nippon."

Synopsis:

Mizuki Arisa and Abe Sadao star in this story of Kanzaki Shimako (Mizuki Arisa), an above-average OL in the General Affairs Division for Tokei Commercial. Tokei has slowly been outsourcing various parts of its business overseas to China and Shimako quickly discovers her General Affairs Division is next! The Chinese company replacing the Division sends it's top operator, Kobata Kenta (Abe Sadao) along with a pair of Chinese women to study what the Division does. Shimako is put in the position of both helping these outsiders learn her job and trying to keep the outsourcing from occurring at all...

Resources:

Direct link to the "OL Nippon" avi files (thanks XrayMind, Kzaru): http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents.php?search=OL+nippon&type=&sub=View+all&sort=

Link to the Discussion for "OL Nippon": http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_66167.htm

Link to DramaWiki page for "OL Nippon": http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_66167.htm

Link to "OL Nippon" home page (in Japanese): http://www.ntv.co.jp/ol-nippon

Notes:

As you know, streaming sites have been taking the hard work of fansubbers like myself and claiming them as their own, often for profit. As a result, I've given a lot of thought whether to even continue creating soft subtitles anymore. For "OL Nippon," I've decided on another tack. Since this series is unlikely to receive a hardsub version, I will only release full subtitles for certain episodes. For those episodes I skip, I will instead provide a detailed synopsis of the story in a text file.

This way, people who come to d-addicts as fans will be able to use the text file to follow along with the episodes without missing anything, while at the same time, providing some irritation to the streaming sites when they start having to deal with people complaining about missing episodes 4, 7 and 11 or whatever. With any luck, the streamers just might eventually remove the streams rather than deal with the complaints (or not even bother putting them up at all - it's a long shot, but I'm an optimist). It's better than nothing.

It's sad I even have to attempt this sort of experiment, but my only other option was not releasing subtitles for this series at all. I hope those of you who are fans of dramas from d-addicts (like me!) will understand.

And to the streamers: I will NOT be releasing full subtitles for every episode, so don't even bother with this one!!

Please enjoy "OL Nippon."

Haruspex
Attachments
OL Nippon ep04.zip
OL Nippon - Episode 04 (English subtitles w/notes)
(19.08 KiB) Downloaded 1733 times
OL Nippon ep01 (704x396 DivX6).srt
OL Nippon - Episode 01 (English subtitles)
(63.43 KiB) Downloaded 1935 times
OL Nippon ep02 (704x396 DivX6).srt
OL Nippon - Episode 02 (English subtitles)
(52.4 KiB) Downloaded 1638 times
OL Nippon ep03 (704x396 DivX6).srt
OL Nippon - Episode 03 (English subtitles)
(54.69 KiB) Downloaded 1817 times
Last edited by Haruspex on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eheednee
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Postby Eheednee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:48 am

thank you SO much for you hard work! :salut:

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Postby oldasianguy » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:17 am

Thanks for the subs.....Hope your "plan" works!!!! :D :D :D
May the Gods be with you....Good Luck.......

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Ginto-gin
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Postby Ginto-gin » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:17 am

Thanks for the work, Haruspex! I wanted to check out this drama, to see if I like it or not. You can also count me as a willing participant in this experiment :pray:

furransu
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Postby furransu » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:20 am

Thanks so much haruspex~

Just some ideas.. isn't better to release full subtitles as hardsubs instead?
Or maybe those particular episodes as hardsubs only?
Or maybe even having those particular episodes' subtitles distributed privately within d-addicts ^^
I'm sure there will be many people here who would offer help to hardsub your work ^^

Imo, I think it'll be quite troublesome to read a txt file and watch at the same time for those episodes without the full subtitles ><

But, it's all up to you ^^ if you decide to stay with this plan, I hope you can have the last episode as a full subtitle instead of a synopsis ^^

thanks again
Last edited by furransu on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

bakaman
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Postby bakaman » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:03 am

Haruspex,
First of all thank you for continuing your wonderful fansub work, and for all the work you've done in the past. I have to say though, I was quite saddened to read that you won't be doing all the episodes because of the streaming sites. I hope I can comment on this without sounding like I'm ungrateful or don't understand. Believe me, I do. I've fansubbed before (only twice, nowhere near what you've done) and in the "real world", I've seen illegal copies of the projects I work on offered for sale on the net everywhere from ebay to their own websites. So I know where you're coming from. I can only imagine the frustration you must feel, especially spending your free time to do something for the fans and community, and then see others steal what you do to make a profit (not to mention all the "when's the next episode coming out?" posts that go along with fansubbing. Even innocently asked, they're annoying as hell).

But having said that, could I just throw out a few thoughts? Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems that by throwing in the towel and deciding not to sub some episodes -- not because you don't have the time or the show doesn't interest you -- but because jerks at streaming sites are showing them, it just seems like we're letting them win. Face it, there will be scum wherever you go, on and off the net, no matter what you try to do. But with a policy like this (and I'm not faulting you for it! I understand exactly why you're trying this), it sends fansubs back to the early 1980s with VHS raws, looking at a computer monitor with a few paragraphs explaining what's going on.

I also doubt that streaming sites will stop putting up your fansubs, even if you don't do a complete set. They don't care. I'm sure episodes 1-3 will be up eventually on these sites, regardless of whether or not you sub episode 4. And if, in exasperation fansubbers just give up because of a few scum making money off fansubber's efforts, then fansubbing is dead... the good will of those who spend their free time doing it, the thanks of a grateful community for the time and effort, and the wonderful shows themselves to the entire community (or it's back to the 1980s reading summaries about what's going on). And these streaming sites will just go onto other things to stream. Doesn't matter to them.

I can understand your frustration absolutely. I don't know if there's a solution except (as harsh as this sounds) I've come to realize that there are always going to be scum around to steal what you do. I see it everyday, and it used to piss me off to no end. It still does, but I've kind of resigned myself to that fact, and life goes on. Personally, I think about it this way: there will always be jerks off in a little corner of the world somewhere doing things like this... but there's also a huge, much larger world (the other 99%) that takes it seriously and appriciates what you (or I) do. It's absolutely your decision on what to do of course (sub only selected episodes, reconsider subbing all the episodes, give up completely), and I'm sure you didn't come to this lightly. But if I'm not out of line too much, maybe see how things go, and think about it some more? It just seems that by doing only partial episodes (though I understand completely why you want to), you're letting the bad guys win, who will be there anyway regardless if you do just a few, or give up completely.. while the many hundreds and thousands of us out there that appreciate so much what you do with every single episode, are penalized.

The last thing I want to sound is ungrateful (I sincerely hope this post doesn't come off that way, I certainly don't mean to!) But you should know that for every person who posts a "thank you!" to the TLs here on D-Addicts, there are hundreds if not thousands more that don't -- but who still appriciate what you do from the bottom of their heart (including myself). I hope you don't mind me kind of posting my thoughts. And thank you for whatever you decide to do with this and in the future, as well as all the great works that have had the Haruspex name on it in the past.

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Postby Melusine » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:20 am

Dear Haruspex

Firstly, I would thanks you for subbing this serie.
I'm a fan a normal fan and I do feel that I'm going to be punish for something I didn't do. I do use the subtitle for increase my japanese comprehension (most of the time I watch an episode twice once without and one with subtitle) and only the detailed synopsis won't help me. I know I'm sound selfish but let me be and I hope you will change your position. An other fansubber has decided to do only a hardsub version and in few month release a batch with all the softsub when the streamer are on an other serie.
Hear the plead of a simple fan : don't stop your sub.

Thanks

steam
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Postby steam » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:42 am

thanks for these subs

sparkle16
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Postby sparkle16 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:24 am

thank you for the subs!! it sucks that you have to take all these precautions now due to some dumb ppl streaming them..

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Postby marspeach » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:26 am

Thanks. I feel it's your right to do what you want with your subs especially when these streaming sites are using your work without permission. But I feel like it's the loyal fans who are hurt. I just want to shoot people uploading subs onto the streaming sites!!!!!!!! It's so annoying that they keep doing it even when the subbers say not to!!! They threaten to stop their subs but people keep doing it. Random Fansubs ended up putting the last few episodes on youtube only. The thing is I can't get mad at subbers because it's their hard work and right. It's just annoying. :cry: Anyway, thanks for subbing this show.

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Postby mikautada » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:31 am

im with you all the way, Haruspex! im optimistic too that this gesture can stop/lessen uploads to streaming sites. Godbless and thanks so much for subbing!:)

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Postby keisuk3 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:41 am

Wasn't planning on watching this one but got caught up in reading the ideas in this post. First off, hardsubbing certain episodes won't work since most streaming sites use the softsubs obtained to create hardsubs anyway, and if the episodes are already hardsubbed, it is that much easier for them (the streamers) to upload. Secondly, Bakaman, to summarize what you said, it would be like, "I thank you for your efforts, but please do not make loyal fans suffer on the account of some few", There, i said what u wanted to say in 1 line (lol i just had to comment on it, no offense).

Anyways, I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to prevent this, maybe put the subtitle file in a zip and put a password on it. Somehow, only give it out to the ppl that you trust to distribute it. Just a thought.

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steev-sama
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Postby steev-sama » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:07 am

To sound ungrateful, but completely honest, that idea is really bad. In fact, it is the worst idea I've seen when it comes to solutions to stopping stream sites. Why? Even if you don't sub some, they will still upload all the subtitles you have done and not care about the ones you didn't sub. So in the end you are only hurting the fans, not the website owners.

The zip idea isn't good either because either it will be so exclusive that some fans won't be able to get them or the website owners will still get them anyway.

The fact is if someone wants your work, they will get it. Copyright protection has been going on for years, but no matter how advanced they've gotten, people have managed to break it. I think that there is no way to stop someone from pirating, because the fight is futile. Even if you manage to stop a few someone will take their place and continue the cycle of pirating.

There are only 2 solutions to ending pirating. First being stopping the people from wanting pirated goods. If that happens the pirates will go out of business. Second is to stop putting out goods in the first place. The end all solution. No goods means they can't pirate anything.

I think if you are really planing to do that, then you should stop now. Even if you don't sub some episodes there will be an outcry from the fans and either you will eventually cave in, give up, or someone else will fill in the gaps, for better or for worse.

I will admit that I was kind of interested in watching this show, at the very least watching the first few episodes to see what it is like, but now I am not interested. Watching a show that is only partially subbed is very annoying. I will keep my eye on this to see how it develops..

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Moodilic
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Postby Moodilic » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:14 am

You own the rights to your subtitles right? Then can't you sue the people that uploads the subtitles to the streaming sites?
You can say that you recorded the show on vhs (haha or dvd from tv and translated it. That way they don't have the right to do this kind of thing.
Yes, I know people don't give a sh*t about the law or rules, but suing(?) should be fun :P.

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Postby toyotaku » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:33 am

Moodilic wrote:You own the rights to your subtitles right? Then can't you sue the people that uploads the subtitles to the streaming sites?
You can say that you recorded the show on vhs (haha or dvd from tv and translated it. That way they don't have the right to do this kind of thing.
Yes, I know people don't give a sh*t about the law or rules, but suing(?) should be fun :P.

I'm making an assumption that subtitling is covered by the same kind of laws, but in the world of books & other written works, translators still need to have permission from the copyright holder of the thing they're translating in order to distribute it "legally." They're not creating something original, but creating a derived work based on someone else's work. Without that, they have no rights. My understanding was that, technically speaking, fansubbing was illegal because it's translation of another writer's words and they don't have permission to do so & distribute it.

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spacecommand
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Postby spacecommand » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:21 am

Moodilic wrote:You own the rights to your subtitles right? Then can't you sue the people that uploads the subtitles to the streaming sites?
You can say that you recorded the show on vhs (haha or dvd from tv and translated it. That way they don't have the right to do this kind of thing.
Yes, I know people don't give a sh*t about the law or rules, but suing(?) should be fun :P.


Not exactly, considering all this downloading, sharing etc of dramas/movies etc is somewhat a violation of copyright laws anyways, regardless of it being on streaming sites or torrents shared.

For example, without permission from whoever holds the rights, someone just can't distribute out copies of Harry Potter in another language just because they translated it.

If the work was their own eg the scripts etc then yes, but it is translation of someone else's work without permission of the original creators and redistributing it, that in itself is a grey area of the law that probably won't stand in any court of law.

As for making a profit, well I doubt the people behind d-addicts are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts (eg paying for everything out of their pockets), I'm sure they make at least enough to keep the site going, all the ads you see on this site isn't there for show, its for revenue. Not to say that's bad, I like daddicts, so I'm not criticizing it at all, running a website costs money, just saying nothings "free" and don't think d-addicts isn't making some money off of the people who contribute or visit it.

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Postby Akiramike » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:49 pm

Thanks for subbing OL Nippon haruspex! Probably the best show of the season by far!
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Postby kusaina » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:38 pm

you Haruspex thanks a lot for this drama, i watched the first three episodes with my wife doing the translation, so i am going to watch again

i agree with Moodilic, you own the copyright of the subs, , not of the drama or drama and subs together., so you should copyright them

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Postby Sukairain » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:21 pm

thanks for subbing!

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Joe1991
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Postby Joe1991 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:21 pm

thanks for the subs!

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Moodilic
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Postby Moodilic » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:13 am

Oh well, at least I tried to think of something.

What about hardcoding subs with nifty tags that say that the subs are not permitted to be uploaded to streaming sites?

Doesn't that work for SARS fansubs? (I really don't know since I don't know any streaming sites but veoh and crunchroll)

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"OL Nippon" - Episode 04

Postby Haruspex » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:15 am

Time for another round of "OL Nippon," this time for episode 4. Please find the subtitles for this episode on the top post of the first page.

In an effort to keep streamers from taking my work and using it to make money for themselves, I have decided to release a set of modified subtitles. Rather than issuing a text file with a detailed run-down of events in the episode as I had originally planned, I will instead be releasing a set of subtitles with various sections missing. The sections are clearly marked in the subtitles. In the case of episode 4, it is three sections, totaling approximately 10% of the episode.

To help fill those sections in, I have also attached notes in the form of a text file. This file contains details about those sections, without giving away enough for the streamers to fill in the missing areas (at least not easily anyway) on their own.

Sorry it has to be this way, but the streamers aren't giving me much choice. To release a full set of subtitles would, in effect, not only be condoning their actions, but abetting them as well. At least this way you can enjoy the episode without too much irritation.

We'll see how it goes. Thank you for all your suggestions and comments.

Haruspex

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Eheednee
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Postby Eheednee » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:51 am

thank you so much for ep4! :D

furransu
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Postby furransu » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:32 am

thanks Haruspex, this is much better than having a whole episode of just synopsis. :)

just wondering, will you be doing this sections thing with the rest of the series or still only just for certain episodes? and will you provide the full subs after the series is over? ^^

thanks again~

mixedmedia
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Postby mixedmedia » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm

At first I was a bit confused to what was going on with episode 4 since there was a srt and a notepad file. I guess even this method has a way around it but at least it makes it harder for them instead of just download and then upload.

It is despicable that people will take advantage and profit without doing any real work of their own. I just realized this again when I saw some place advertising $3 Anime DVDs which are probably just some fansubbed (with the credits taken off) episodes burned onto some DVDs.

Regardless of when the subs are completed if ever those people who should not be supported will just upload them and get their ad revenues or worse yet sell them from clueless people.

lblisters
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Postby lblisters » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:24 pm

Thanks for these subtitles! We all appreciate it.

Actually, the approach you took with episode 4 was really not as bad as I'd feared. Referring to summary for certain scenes is a minor burden for fans.

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steev-sama
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Postby steev-sama » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:24 pm

Just to let you know, it is up on streaming sites still and DramaCrazy even added a special page with the notes you made on it. :|

-> http://www.dramacrazy.net/japanese-drama/ol-nippon/ol-nippon-episode-4/

I figure this would happen, but I decided to keep an eye on the site to see the actual outcome.

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SolNoir
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Postby SolNoir » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:01 am

steev-sama wrote:Just to let you know, it is up on streaming sites still and DramaCrazy even added a special page with the notes you made on it. :|

-> http://www.dramacrazy.net/japanese-drama/ol-nippon/ol-nippon-episode-4/

I figure this would happen, but I decided to keep an eye on the site to see the actual outcome.


The only reason to be against streaming sites is because they fansubbers are more likely to be sued (yes, fan-subs ARE illegal... and hardsubs are worse than softsubs from a legal standpoint). If the subber isn't named who cares? If the subber isn't getting C&D emails... who cares?

off topic: the fake name I used to give people when I worked as a bouncer was "Stevie"... so I tend to agree with "Steve"s (see "steev-sama" above) :)
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Postby LancerReiNi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:27 am

thank you.

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Postby melys » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:57 am

Haruspex, thank you for subbing this! Without your hard work I wouldn't even take a look on this show, and now that I know how interesting it is, I'm glad I gave it a try. Thank you so much ^^

About streaming uploaders.... I wish they can appreciate subber's wish and not to upload your work anywhere!

neofire
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Postby neofire » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:58 pm

Thanks Haruspex, love the show, and thanks for the subs!
I don't really mind having to read notes, its better than no subs, and I can understand half of it even without sub, but Thanks again.

The only good solution is to hardsub and put warning, and annoying messages throughout the show. I remember one particular drama - Good Luck has that.

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Postby aka_tombo » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:57 pm

Thanks for subbing this :)

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Postby Zealousy » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:14 pm

Eh, looks like your plan didn't work.
Dramacrazy posted it + the notes.
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lif3tr4nce
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Postby lif3tr4nce » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:35 am

thanks for subbing another episode. The whole missing parts thing isnt too bad and i can easily understand what's going on. But then again that's because i understand enough japanese to understand haha. But i bet there's quite a few people out there like me who knows japanese but still need subs due to the occasional "deep" words/kanji/slang. So if i wanted to be an ass or those other people out there like me wanted, we could easily fill that gap for each section. So i don't think this is such a great idea but i do commend you trying something other than just not subbing the series at all.

but i do have a question for any subbers that might read this. What's the deal with being so against streaming sites? the only streaming site i know that charged for "high quality" videos before was crunchyroll but they don't do that anymore. And we all know how much bandwidth streaming stuff takes so i can't really say that what they did was wrong, and they did offer direct downloads of videos for a fee as well. But that wasn't a charge for the video, it was a charge for the service of being able to direct download. And i don't get the whole "putting it on streaming sites will make us [fansubbers] easier to find" in fear of being sued thing because before there was ever a youtube, there was something called a search engine. just google "OL nippon download" and with 90% probability, d-addicts will be one the first page of the results. so unless you're completely stupid, you can easily find a fansub group if you really wanted them to stop and sue them or whatever even without the help of streaming sites.

and lastly, the whole thanking the wrong person thing. in regards to this, i would like to know if there was a sudden drop in people thanking subbers on their releases in the forums. I doubt there wasnt a big change. fans who took the time to actually say thanks are probably still downloading using torrents and still saying thanks and those leechers and who never said thanks or seeded properly cuz they just wanted to watch and get it over with are probably still not saying thanks, and if they are, its to streaming sites for providing a fast and easy way to watch dramas. not everyone has the speed/capabilities to download torrents thats why so many people thank streaming sites. even if they don't do it here on d-addicts, i'm sure they're still thankful of what subbers are doing.

wow that was long, and i probably sound like an ass but i'm a fansubber as well, i'm just not so sensitive over everything that a few people do on the web when there are a million others who i'd like to offer fansubs to. And that's not an exaggeration if that's what you think, just look at crunchyroll. i'm pretty sure the site has over a million members and what are they all there for? Fansubbed videos. So if people are really subbing "for the fans" then you should be happy if even only person has properly thanked you as long as countless others are watching.

so if anyone has an answer/reply to any of my thoughts please quote or pm as i'd like to know or discuss the answer. and if you want to flame me for saying something that comes off as rude to the fansubbers, then please follow it with a proper explanation and i will reply otherwise, ignore me. thanks for reading if you did.

LancerReiNi
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Postby LancerReiNi » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:52 am

lif3tr4nce wrote:thanks for subbing another episode. The whole missing parts thing isnt too bad and i can easily understand what's going on. But then again that's because i understand enough japanese to understand haha. But i bet there's quite a few people out there like me who knows japanese but still need subs due to the occasional "deep" words/kanji/slang. So if i wanted to be an ass or those other people out there like me wanted, we could easily fill that gap for each section. So i don't think this is such a great idea but i do commend you trying something other than just not subbing the series at all.

but i do have a question for any subbers that might read this. What's the deal with being so against streaming sites? the only streaming site i know that charged for "high quality" videos before was crunchyroll but they don't do that anymore. And we all know how much bandwidth streaming stuff takes so i can't really say that what they did was wrong, and they did offer direct downloads of videos for a fee as well. But that wasn't a charge for the video, it was a charge for the service of being able to direct download. And i don't get the whole "putting it on streaming sites will make us [fansubbers] easier to find" in fear of being sued thing because before there was ever a youtube, there was something called a search engine. just google "OL nippon download" and with 90% probability, d-addicts will be one the first page of the results. so unless you're completely stupid, you can easily find a fansub group if you really wanted them to stop and sue them or whatever even without the help of streaming sites.

and lastly, the whole thanking the wrong person thing. in regards to this, i would like to know if there was a sudden drop in people thanking subbers on their releases in the forums. I doubt there wasnt a big change. fans who took the time to actually say thanks are probably still downloading using torrents and still saying thanks and those leechers and who never said thanks or seeded properly cuz they just wanted to watch and get it over with are probably still not saying thanks, and if they are, its to streaming sites for providing a fast and easy way to watch dramas. not everyone has the speed/capabilities to download torrents thats why so many people thank streaming sites. even if they don't do it here on d-addicts, i'm sure they're still thankful of what subbers are doing.

wow that was long, and i probably sound like an ass but i'm a fansubber as well, i'm just not so sensitive over everything that a few people do on the web when there are a million others who i'd like to offer fansubs to. And that's not an exaggeration if that's what you think, just look at crunchyroll. i'm pretty sure the site has over a million members and what are they all there for? Fansubbed videos. So if people are really subbing "for the fans" then you should be happy if even only person has properly thanked you as long as countless others are watching.

so if anyone has an answer/reply to any of my thoughts please quote or pm as i'd like to know or discuss the answer. and if you want to flame me for saying something that comes off as rude to the fansubbers, then please follow it with a proper explanation and i will reply otherwise, ignore me. thanks for reading if you did.


I shared similar views regarding this issue. In fact, there's a few threads that are debating or at least discussing this issue.
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_66534_135.htm [Celeb to Binbo Taro [Eng Subs] (Ep 1-3)] - The fansubber has resorted to streaming his own translations but that only led to lower quality videos. It also didn't resolve the issue, since the site he was going up against is still streaming his works.

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_66651_0.htm [Streaming site with fansubbed work without permission]

Here's my take on the issue and perhaps others can chime in on it, if they feel inclined.

1) I originally thought streamers were okay(not good and not entirely bad) because one site in particular rejuvenated my interest in jdramas and it motivated me to search out higher quality solutions(i.e torrents). It led me back to d-addicts. I saw a few dramas that I felt were absolutely imperative to view in higher res to appreciate. And since then, I've been very committed to keeping a good dl/ul ratio. So that others can enjoy what I've enjoyed.

2.) But I think it's wrong to post other logos(logos from the streamers) over someone else's works(even if it's just subbing), I can tell that fansubbers make a lot of effort to keep the translations and storyline intact. And for someone else to take credit subbing is absolutely wrong.

3.) Regarding the fansubber's identities, While more exposure could and may lead to problems for the subbers, you do make an interesting point. Anyone inclined to googling the jdramas can find the source of the subs. But I think it's more than that. I think each fansubber has the right to impose any rules he/she feels fit. And if they don't want their work streamed it should be acknowledged and not disregarded. Beggars can't be choosers, I think if the streamers themselves decided to do fansubbing then so be it. But stealing someone else's work is just plain wrong.

Final point, As I said I originally felt the same way you did and questioned why fansubbers don't want their works streamed. Now I'm starting to see a different problem. Fans are being punished for something streamers are doing. As a fan, I can't find proper subs' because measures are being tested and put in place. OL Nippon is a prime example. I'm having to deal with reading text off a summaries sheet because the fansubber is pissed that a streamer is stealing his work. Even by taking these measures the streamers are still posting the subs. Eventually, the fansubbers will lose interest and halt completely. No one wins.

As a suggested solution, I think streamers should make the effort to communicate with the subbers and come to an agreement on what they can stream and what they can't. It's really not fair for fans to get stuck in the crossfire over these sorts of things.

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steev-sama
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Postby steev-sama » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:40 pm

lif3tr4nce wrote:so if anyone has an answer/reply to any of my thoughts please quote or pm as i'd like to know or discuss the answer. and if you want to flame me for saying something that comes off as rude to the fansubbers, then please follow it with a proper explanation and i will reply otherwise, ignore me. thanks for reading if you did.


I am not a fansubber, but I am and have help run several websites, including one that had 100,000+ vistors daily. Plus, I have worked with and helped several fansubbers with their website. In my opinion, I think it is ok to host pay services for access to media. However, all the money given to access the media should be put back into the site. There should be NO profit for the owners, but the sad thing is, that is not the case. Most site owners dip into their own revenue for fun items. I worked on a site, which I won't name, that the owner did that on and I quit because of it.

I do also believe that site owners should respect the fansubbers wishes. It really isn't their work, so you should try to communicate with the people that are feeding your site with material. It is rude not to pay your respects and/or ignore them.

Lastly, the watermark issue is freaken retarded. Streaming sites aren't claiming to have created the work.. Very few, if any will even believe that they are. They are simply putting their logo on the video so that other streaming sites don't just rip/steal them. I guess it is kind of ironic if you think about it, since fansubbers are complaining about them stealing it.

I stated it earlier in this topic, but it is futile to resist streaming sites because there really is no good solution to stop them. So I do agree with the above two guys, in the end, the fans always lose.

BTW, Fansubs aren't called fansubs because they are for fans.. that is a misnomer. Fansubs are subtitles by fans. That is where the name came from, not fansubs are for fans. That is why it really is up to the fansubber if he is going to provide for fans or work for their own sake. I know there are many more reasons why people fansub, that is just a generalization.

miso.onigiri
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Postby miso.onigiri » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:58 pm

*waves sheepishly*

Hi Haruspex, thanks for OL Nippon subs, I'm enjoying this show very much - pls continue subbing if you can! On behalf of the other hundreds/thousands of jdrama fans who haven't registered to say their thanks - THANKS!!

*waves sheepishly again..*

FTW123FTW456
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Postby FTW123FTW456 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:32 pm

steev-sama wrote:
lif3tr4nce wrote:
Lastly, the watermark issue is freaken retarded. Streaming sites aren't claiming to have created the work.. Very few, if any will even believe that they are. They are simply putting their logo on the video so that other streaming sites don't just rip/steal them. I guess it is kind of ironic if you think about it, since fansubbers are complaining about them stealing it.

Thats true,
look at this
http://www.mysoju.com/hearts-of-fencing ... -1/part-1/
Wondering who uploaded that?

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lif3tr4nce
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Postby lif3tr4nce » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:39 am

LancerReiNi wrote:As a suggested solution, I think streamers should make the effort to communicate with the subbers and come to an agreement on what they can stream and what they can't. It's really not fair for fans to get stuck in the crossfire over these sorts of things.

Well in the beginniing that's really all that subbers demanded. They just wanted people to ask them first if they could upload/stream their work somewhere. But that didn't work and now it's turned into a boycott of all streaming sites haha. I do believe that fansub groups have their rights to their subs but that's a futile argument against netizens because all these countries have anti-piracy laws and yet here we are downloading illegal copies of tv shows as well subbing them. So why would these "pirates" listen to a group whose words hold no legal weight when they break laws that do and can get them fined/arrested?

steev-sama wrote:BTW, Fansubs aren't called fansubs because they are for fans.. that is a misnomer. Fansubs are subtitles by fans. That is where the name came from, not fansubs are for fans. That is why it really is up to the fansubber if he is going to provide for fans or work for their own sake. I know there are many more reasons why people fansub, that is just a generalization.


Lol. Reading my post again, i do seem like i'm saying that fanubs = subs for fans but i know that's wrong and that it's "subs by fans". I was just trying to say that we all know, or hopefully everybody else does, that fansubbers do NOT get paid to sub dramas and the only time they get money is through donations for website maintenance / xdcc bots on IRC. So, since fansubbers don't get paid why do they do it? For the fans. But i do know there are a few out there who do it for their ego and just want to be thanked and hailed as a god haha. And of course there are also quite a few that start subbing because they have friends and family that they want to show the drama to. But in the end, those people are still fans.

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Zealousy
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Postby Zealousy » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:55 pm

FTW123FTW456 wrote:
steev-sama wrote:
Lastly, the watermark issue is freaken retarded. Streaming sites aren't claiming to have created the work.. Very few, if any will even believe that they are. They are simply putting their logo on the video so that other streaming sites don't just rip/steal them. I guess it is kind of ironic if you think about it, since fansubbers are complaining about them stealing it.

Thats true,
look at this
http://www.mysoju.com/hearts-of-fencing ... -1/part-1/
Wondering who uploaded that?


Even so, putting a watermark on someone elses work in just not acceptable.
DC has no right to do so since they did ZERO work.

srsly. Its like if I put my name on someone elses University entrance letter.
EDIT: BTW, dramacrazy obviously took Lawyers of Korea & My Woman from Mysoju.
(Two of which I've asked to be removed, politely, and got a silent stfu.)
Honey, honey, honey...

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steev-sama
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Postby steev-sama » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:16 am

Zealousy wrote:Even so, putting a watermark on someone elses work in just not acceptable.
DC has no right to do so since they did ZERO work.

srsly. Its like if I put my name on someone elses University entrance letter.

See, this right here is what I think is just completely funny. That makes Youtube the biggest thief on the internet.. What about websites that have images on them and put watermarks on them all? Even main stream sites like IGN do that. They will even take the picture from some another site and still put their watermark on it. How about movies that are broadcasted on TV? Don't those channels put a little watermark on the screen? Are they claiming to have made the movie? No, that is what the credits are for.

Plus, the best thing of all.. By that logic, then fansubbers did no work, but they put their subtitles on someone else's drama, so does that make them a bad person too? Before anyone says something like "Well fansubbers do the work of subtitling!" I return to you, stream sites do the work of uploading and hosting.. Work is work, even if you think what they're doing isn't as important, they still work.

As for the University Entrance letter.. Did you not read the post? Few, if any body, actually thinks the hosting site subtitles the video. So they aren't claiming the video as their own work. Signing a name on a letter claims the letter as your own. Now that is ok if it is some generic letter, but a university letter? Those letters sell yourself to the university. Typically a university letter consists of accomplishments, goals, and aspirations. By putting your name on that kind of letter you claiming all that as your own, again, which is not what those host sites are doing. Do I really need to explain this? Come on.

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zetobelt
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Postby zetobelt » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:02 pm

This whole "fansubbers vs streamers" thing is alienating the fans. Not to the streamers.

I just want to give my two cents about this.

The fansubbing is about fans trying to express their love for doramas (in this case). This never was about love, money or fame.

Probably some people sells copys. Which is bad, but ultimately can't be helped. The definitive solution to solve the problem... is to stop fansubbing. But the cure is worst than the disease, in my opinion.

About the streamers which aren't selling their service, although may bother the fansubber, are helping to further distribute the doramas. They are useful to the true goal of all this. Not all people in this planet have access to broadband, or powerful machines, or have the technical savvy to use torrents, codecs, subs and such.

Hope don't make anyone mad with my thoughts.

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Postby wontonsoupx » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:17 pm

tankue :salut:

furransu
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Postby furransu » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:20 am

looking forward to ep5 ~~ hopefully you only do partial subs for some episodes not all ^^

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Postby Kuraharashizue » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:32 pm

I, too, hope Haruspex will change his (her?) mind on this, but at least a good description is something. People are spoiled nowadays. When I started on Japanese stuff, getting a third or fourth generation VHS copy from off-air months later - with a two-line synopsis if one was really lucky - was something to celebrate.

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Postby Akiramike » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:52 am

Thanks Haruspex for ep 4! I don't mind the partial subs though I think its not going to stop streamers. Thanks for subbing OL Nippon, a show which probably wouldn't have been subbed otherwise and one that is definitely worth watching.
http://hamsapsukebe.blogspot.com - ramblings of a jobless bum

furransu
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Postby furransu » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:00 am

just wondering.. we havent heard from you for a while ^^, i hope you haven't dropped this drama :S

ikimonogakari
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Postby ikimonogakari » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:22 am

next episode please, really interesting, great dorama this season ^^

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Postby furransu » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:00 am

haruspex, i hope you will continue subbing OL Nippon, i don't care if its only partial subs for the rest of the episodes >< just don't drop it please

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Tao Libra
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Postby Tao Libra » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:46 am

As always, thanks for the subs, Haruspex.

However, I think your plan to stick it to the streamers has already proven futile. As another poster pointed out, apparently your incomplete subs for OL Nippon Episode 4 have been streamed by someone anyway—including the notes.

I completely understand your frustration and anger over this. I am a graphic artist, and on two separate occasions I've had to threaten legal action against people who were claiming credit for my work—MY work mind you, not just subsidiary material for a product that I didn't own (which is what fansubs are), but stuff that I had created entirely on my own—so trust me, I do understand.

But it's already been demonstrated that you are not stopping the streamers. The only thing you could do to really stop them is stop making the subtitles at all—which won't really punish them, because they'll just stream something else.

Whether you refrain from subbing at all, or just omit sections of the subs, the only people really being punished are the fans.

If you want to punish streamers who steal your work, publicize their theft. Plaster their names all over every J-Drama fansite in existence, labeling them as liars and thieves for stealing your work. Smear their thieving names in the mud, and tell the fans where they can download your fansubs and the high-quality RAWs. All the fans who matter would rather download high-quality stuff anyway; and when the thieving streamers start seeing a drop in their hit counters, and their inboxes get flooded with people telling them they're thieves, maybe then they'll stop.

Or not. But either way, there's nothing you can do to stop them without punishing US.

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zetobelt
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Postby zetobelt » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:45 am

The other problem with the partial subs estrategy is that affects the subbing process to other languages.

When someone makes english subtitles, other people from around the globe takes the post and makes translations to their own languages. Spanish, french, german, you name it. And the fruits of the subber labour get further spreaded. All this with only one goal, to make the doramas avalaible for more people.

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Postby furransu » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:54 am

i think Haruspex has dropped this drama due to all those stream sites problems :(..

now then i gotta wait for the DVD with dodgy subs >< coz this one is one of my favourite this season.. really want to watch and finish it no matter how good or how bad the subs are lol

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Postby darynrose » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:02 am

I believe tht Haruspex is still translating this. Probably he just got swamped with lots of other projects or real life. :)

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Postby greenjade05 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:40 am

^I think so too that they're busy with other things. Subbers have lives to live outside of the world of subtitiling too. Haruspex's subs will come out in due time so we shouldn't become impaitent while waiting.

ikimonogakari
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Postby ikimonogakari » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:14 am

i hope you will continue subbing OL Nippon :-( :pale:

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Postby junior_pansy » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:54 am

furransu wrote:i think Haruspex has dropped this drama due to all those stream sites problems :(..

now then i gotta wait for the DVD with dodgy subs >< coz this one is one of my favourite this season.. really want to watch and finish it no matter how good or how bad the subs are lol


Well furransu... you are our last hope if haruspex really decides to drop the subbing for whatever reasons...

:salut:

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Postby NiKERiN » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:26 pm

Thanks so much

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Kumakun
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OL Nippon Subs

Postby Kumakun » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:47 pm

Currently there are several sets of OL Nippon DVD's with English subtitles for sale on eBay. Usually, the English translations are abysmal not only grammatically and in choice of words (for example, "don't phonate" presumably instead of "don't shout")but also because Japanese names are changed to Chinese names.

The subtitle tracts from these DVD's, however, can be extracted using appropriate software, and edited.

junior_pansy
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Re: OL Nippon Subs

Postby junior_pansy » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:41 pm

Kumakun wrote:Currently there are several sets of OL Nippon DVD's with English subtitles for sale on eBay. Usually, the English translations are abysmal not only grammatically and in choice of words (for example, "don't phonate" presumably instead of "don't shout")but also because Japanese names are changed to Chinese names.

The subtitle tracts from these DVD's, however, can be extracted using appropriate software, and edited.


Thanks for the info..

Let me know if anyone needs help in editing the subs (though I cant understand Japanese much) but i can somewhat guess and correct some grammar:)

:salut:

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Kumakun
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Postby Kumakun » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Actually, I started translating the Japanese subtitles on the final episode. There are a few 文字化け, a large number of very colloquial expressions and contractions, and some words that can't be found in standard dictionaries, like はっちゃける.

lblisters
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Postby lblisters » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:31 am

OK gang, let's try flipping the situation and leveraging the bootleggers' work this time.

I ripped the subs for episodes 5-10 from a chinese bootleg. These seem to be typical autotranslation from Chinese. Quality is a far cry from the excellent work done by Haruspex and other fansubbers. However if you're used to autotranslated subs, these are hardly the worst you've seen. The wordplay is lost, but nearly all the time you'll be able to follow what people are talking about.

These are sufficient for us who were waiting on subs to finish the series.

These are also a good starting point for improvement. It really needs a fluent speaker to make a pass and correct where the translation is completely wrong, make sure the humor is translated. From there anyone could fix spelling and grammar. I've already corrected most of the names back to Japanese, although there may be a few errors so they should be double-checked. I also fixed up a few of the jokes where a native pointed them out to me. I didn't bother to proofread the whole thing, because I couldn't verify the correctness of the dialogue.

Attached, and online backup:
http://www.zshare.net/download/55083837ee852fd4/

Thanks to Haruspex and all fansubbers.
Attachments
OL Nippon ep5-10 Rough Subs.zip
OL Nippon 5-10 Rough Eng Subs
(173.34 KiB) Downloaded 742 times
Last edited by lblisters on Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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morgadinho
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Postby morgadinho » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:29 am

Thank you so much for your hard work !
I really enjoyed watching this drama !
Thank you ...:notworthy:
:dance:

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Eheednee
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Postby Eheednee » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:13 am

lblisters, thank you very much!

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lif3tr4nce
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Postby lif3tr4nce » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:57 am

niiice. i'll probably go through and check everything then post it here again.

zenin
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Postby zenin » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:57 pm

Gret work on the bootleg subs. :D

It can be fustrating to have others take credit for your work. I agree that streaming sites should not be showing the hard work of the fansubbers.

But if the subber thinks this is the way to go on continuing his/her work, then it will be probably best if you just stop subbing altogether. Coz you will just be depriving other subbers form the dramas you take up.

Just my 2 cents woth.

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Kumakun
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Postby Kumakun » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:38 pm

It takes time, effort, and thought to translate any work. So I really appreciate the consistently high quality work that's been done here. Having said that, I also agree with others that as fansubbing probably cannot be copyrighted, and unauthorized use by streaming sites is unavoidable.

How freely one should translate? Opinions differ. I've seen subtitles that have no relationship to the original dialogue, just what an English-speaking person might say in such a situation. No one ever translates 先生, it's just romanized as "sensei". To be consistent, shouldn't 課長、社長、部長、just be romanized as ka-cho, sha-cho, bu-cho and not translated as section-chief, (company) president, chairman? Some words are difficult to translate, such as ブス (busu - an ugly woman). In one Chinese DVD set, it was translated as "dinosaur", but in American English, most people would say "a real dog", and it just doesn't work.

I mention this because of Kobata-san's nickname: チビ太 (Chibita). Chibita, a small, little brat, is a well-known character from the manga "Osomatsu Kun" by Akatsuka Fujio, and the caricature that Kimura-san draws of Kobata-san is the same. So romanizing it as "Chibita" to me seems preferable to translating it as "Short-Round".

Kuraharashizue
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Postby Kuraharashizue » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:38 am

Oh, thank you, I've been waiting months for the rest of the subtitles. Much appreciated.

loksun
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Postby loksun » Sun May 17, 2009 12:46 am

Oh wow, thank you for the rough English subs.

Now if someone will do the same for 33 Pun Tantei and Monster Parents.... sigh.

Sesam
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Postby Sesam » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:35 pm

Thanks Haruplex for subbing and iblisters for filling in with the bootleg subs :)

It is sad to see that softsub releases are getting scarce. I suggest instead of not releasing softsubs at all, to just delay releasing them for a year or so. The streaming sites thrive on having series up as fast as possible, it is impatient people that don't want to make an effort downloading files that visit their sites. Hardsubbing don't stop the streaming sites from putting the videos up anyway.

tuku99
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A distant memory... Thanks for the fond memories! ^_^

Postby tuku99 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:56 am

I remember laughing it up with this drama... It looked fun...

But, then trouble...

But thanks to the subs... I never finished this one...

It was so promising...

:fear: :fear: :fear:


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