Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

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koshonin
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Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby koshonin » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:19 am

Maybe this should go in it's own thread now ... (keiko? :) )
.
I understand that some of you are not totally content with nyaa as a replacement...
.
my question would be -just to open the discussion: what do you want/need it to have (not to have) to make it useable/usefull?
would something like the rescue-db with the possibility to add new torrents be already something worth considering?
.
with the independence from the forum: how should 'usermanagement' work?
.
now my answers and thoughts:
- not to be indexed by search-engines
- RSS feed
- some kind of moderation (like @d-addicts had? I don't know how it worked, tho) to keep it fake-free (so the RSS is trustworthy...)
- usermanagement via forum/PM - that way nicks are already known
- nice to have: discussion/comments; link to wiki(s)/forum;
.
anywayz, it's just a discussion now... nothing in the works

PS. thanks keiko for deciding; I was only musing about the split

koshonin
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby koshonin » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:40 pm

keiko asked some good questions:

Q:"what kind of usermanagement? something similar to forum or wordpress w/o forum plugins etc?"
.
A: since the closure, I always thought a simple -dropin-replacement for the torrent-section would suffice - at least for the time being.
.
A: the picture I had in mind, while writing the first post, is something like the rescue-db-site with the possibility of adding torrents (<- this is where usermanagement comes into play***), providing 'real' torrent-(cache)-links/magnets, real table-view with sorting -- basically like it was in the late torrent-section
*** usermanagement: who should be able to add torrents, moderate torrents etc - but with datasets/userlists not directly connected to the forum - they need to be synced somehow (in case you all think that's needed for trust etc)
.
Q: forum/wordpress etc:
A1: I would hate to see the already strained community to be further weakened and fissle out - and there is no need to replace a forum thats working
A2: as plattform/underlying logic: these packages might be a little overkill for the small task I'm thinking of achiving -

Q: what's meant with discussion/forum/wiki(s)
A: in the late torrent-section every torrent had it's own forum-thread for additional information etc
here I was just thinking of having additional entries to every torrent to link to subtitle(s), wiki(s), discussion-thread etc
.

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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby Keiko1981 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Okay, now that you've explained it more I think it's better using what we got; forum/subtitles/Wiki.

Aurora Australis
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby Aurora Australis » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:51 am

These ideas reflect very similarly to those that I have.

The most recent design of D-A was sufficient: forum, torrent, wiki. We simply need to bring the pieces back together again as they are all split up now, and bring them all up to date.

What I image is literally recreating D-A (get all of the old torrents back from the rescue-DB, put links to them back in their original threads), fill in missing shows from the last year, and create a redundant site and DB backup so that in the event that something happens, we have backups and failsafes and don't have to resort to scraping archive.org. (Similar to how TPB decentralized their site and released the entire thing on a USB thumb drive).

It really should be a simple, straight forward design. We don't need any fancy private tracker magic or anything like that. What we had worked well, it just needs to be brought back together again.

After that I imagine upgrading the wiki to be more structured and in line with something like "tvdb.com," and add features to support folks who want to integrate with existing media mangement solutions such as sonarr, sickbeard, etc.

The trick is to make it all self-sustaining and easily recoverable, but like I said in the other thread http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=162248: I've already got plans and thought this all through. I simply want to build it back up and hand over the reigns to the current admins and mods. I don't want any credit. :)

If you're as serious as I am, I would love to collaborate and rekindle D-A.

koshonin
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby koshonin » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:24 pm

thanks aurora for explaining. yes I want the things back to normal too.
Ayo told me that the DA2 team thought of implementing a requirement to seed back. not as closesed as avistaz is but it would require registration nevertheless.
I personally don't think it is nessessary but I think it is worth discussing because they would need different concepts.
I also don't think the forums should be replaced in any way, because with the # of posts it's basically a historic document.

AyoYura
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby AyoYura » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:47 pm

Hi all,

As I had mentioned it to the OP in our PMs, in order to create a healthy bittorrent community, a registration system will need to be implemented unless most people don't care about their IPs being disclosed for anyone to see. Nevertheless, I am willing to help with whatever I can so you're always welcome to hit me up with questions. Although, I don't think I will be of much use if the site/tracker will be open as I have no plans to disclose my IP for everyone to see (Also, this will eliminated any exclusive plans I had originally discussed with a couple of DoA encoders who were willing to provide us with their work/encodes if the tracker were to be private).

Here's a quote of what I told koshonin regarding this project
The tracker would indeed not be public in the sense of the word as to prevent fake users or leechers. This is where the ratio-less feature comes into place. We know that if we don't impose any sort of rule, the torrents' life spam will be very short if people only leech so to prevent this, our team's plan was to introduce a 1:1 seed:leech and/or 72h seed within a week to prevent users from hit&run actions. In other words, everyone must seed everything that they downloaded or continue seeding for up to 72h within a week before they can disconnect from the torrent completely.


For any more info or questions I can be reached here:

IRC at JiAe@Rizon
Encrypted email at aninet96[at]gmail[dot]com via mailvelope [requires for us to add our public keys to exchanges emails - Public key below]
OR mjbt[at]prontonmail[dot]com [requires a PM account]

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Best regards,
Ayo

Aurora Australis
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby Aurora Australis » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:24 am

Hi, Ayo. :)

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea of a private tracker (but am open to being convinced). The benefits come at the cost of a limited community, and yet most of those benefits can easily be overcome by a determined attacker. Although, not being a member of a private tracker I can't speak from anecdotal experience, so if you can correct my understanding I would appreciate it.

The largets benefit of a private tracker, it would seem, is protecting one's activity from being tracked. However, in practice a private tracker doesn't actually seem to offer this benefit:
    If the tracker has open-registration then anyone can get in and track your activity
    If the tracker is closed, but has paid (i.e. "donation" based) registration, the usual USD$10 won't block a determined attacker from getting in and tracking your activity
    If the tracker is closed, but has invite-only registration, an attacker can easily get an invite via social-engineering or on one of many invite sharing forums

You could go to the extreme and limit registration to a close-knit group of people, but that would severly limit community growth and size which is important for this type of community (it may even be enough to ensure that the new tracker never even reaches critical mass).

Regarding your mention of having DoA encoders directly sharing files only on a private tracker, I don't think this is an issue. Since the beginning of The Scene (the tv, movie, warez one), releases have been restricted to private channels and are then reposted to public ones (traditionally releases were made to private FTP servers, downloaded by users, and then reposted to public FTPs and UseNet). What is preventing us from following this traditional system? We only need one or two members that DoA trusts and proivides access to their private tracker, who can then create a new public torrent on our site for each release. It's what happens with DoA releases already...

Besides, in this day of DHT and public trackers, there isn't a major reason to run your own tracker, even if it were public. Yes, you lose the ability to track user share ratios, but there are other ways to encourage the community to share (my idea centres around gamification. People like to collect badges and other untangible items, leverage this to promote people to share). Besides, a 72-hour share requirement doesn't help users who are late, or want old content.

Again, I haven't actually used a private tracker, but this is my understanding. Please correct me as necessary. :)

Of course, if we knew the reason Ruroshin shuttered the torrent section and left the site it would make the public/private decision very easy to make! :P

AyoYura
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby AyoYura » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:51 pm

Hi Aurora Australis,

The largets benefit of a private tracker, it would seem, is protecting one's activity from being tracked. However, in practice a private tracker doesn't actually seem to offer this benefit:
If the tracker has open-registration then anyone can get in and track your activity
If the tracker is closed, but has paid (i.e. "donation" based) registration, the usual USD$10 won't block a determined attacker from getting in and tracking your activity
If the tracker is closed, but has invite-only registration, an attacker can easily get an invite via social-engineering or on one of many invite sharing forums


All these points are actually correct. There's no way for us (a private tracker) to fully protect its tracker from a dedicated attacker, but it does reduce the chances of this actually happening. Furthermore, the reason for a private tracker is to protect the community from copyright trolls. Also, the plan is to have a open registration UNTIL we see that it is necessary to close the site ( invite-only) due to spam etc.

Regarding your mention of having DoA encoders directly sharing files only on a private tracker, I don't think this is an issue. Since the beginning of The Scene (the tv, movie, warez one), releases have been restricted to private channels and are then reposted to public ones (traditionally releases were made to private FTP servers, downloaded by users, and then reposted to public FTPs and UseNet). What is preventing us from following this traditional system?[..]


The whole plan/idea of 'exclusive' releases was to be able to receive encodes as soon as they are finished by the encoders instead of waiting 48h (DoA's rule at their home tracker) before we can have them on our tracker. This would of course change if we find our own dedicated team of encoders.

Besides, in this day of DHT and public trackers, there isn't a major reason to run your own tracker, even if it were public. Yes, you lose the ability to track user share ratios, but there are other ways to encourage the community to share (my idea centres around gamification. People like to collect badges and other untangible items, leverage this to promote people to share). Besides, a 72-hour share requirement doesn't help users who are late, or want old content.


I think you got a valid point here so I'll leave it up to the community to decide what's best for them. Regarding the 72-hour share requirement, this has actually worked quite well in most of the ratio-less trackers where I am a member of.

Of course, if we knew the reason Ruroshin shuttered the torrent section and left the site it would make the public/private decision very easy to make!


I would like to know the reason myself as to not make a mistake and fall victim of whatever he went through to force him to close the torrents section.

Finally, After taking a closer look at the community ( I was blinded by my desired for a private tracker) I have come to understand that a tracker might not even be what this community is actually seeking and much less a private one. This community is more about creating subtitles and thus most don't really care about quality encodes/videos or anything of that nature. Most users are here to keep the subbing community alive and if that's correct ( I know it is) then a private tracker ( thus me and our failed project) don't belong here.

Like you suggested in your tread, what's best for this community is an overall redesign to keep the site/forum up to date with the latest technologies.

Ganbare mina,
Ayo

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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby Keiko1981 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:22 pm

I do also think that at least some kind of registration is needed.
72-hour sharing or 1:1 ratio, any of that will do for me.

Content-wise...
- Drama and TV specials. Not only Japan/Korea/China, other Asian countries, too? Which ones? (as an example AvistaZ use the following, see image).
- Movies/no movies? (I'd say no movies, out of security.)
Attachments
countries.png
countries.png (21.45 KiB) Viewed 987 times

koshonin
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby koshonin » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:35 am

just a reminder: the old torrents wouldn't work with a closed system, because the private-flag isn't set (which was a rule in the late torrent section if I remember correctly)
I don't see anyone redo the torrents to make them available again
^something I would hate because I still discover dramas when seed requests are fullfilled for example
.
I wonder if the 72h/1:1 rule would actually have any impact on the longterm availability
.
concerning the c-trolls: not having the torrent section indexed by searchengines could reduce the likelyhood dramatically (google seems to be their prime research tool)

Aurora Australis
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Re: Setting up a new torrent site. (take 2) Discuss your basic needs (as uploader/leecher)

Postby Aurora Australis » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:27 am

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I think they're all valid points and there are certainly many options for how to proceed, but I think that simplest is best for now. :)

I've added a proposal to my recruitment thread that outlines the goals, motiation, etc. of the project. Please take a look if you're intersted and provide any comments.


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