passwords and uploading for profit

gebageba-kun · Post by **gebageba-kun** » Apr 10th, '12, 17:16

I know this is a touchy subject to bring up but i think it needs to be said for the good of this site, that password protecting files containing recorded television media for monetary gain can result into a legal action that may inturn result in shutting down this site. Whether a member's intentions are good, trying to continue to upload files to share by offsetting the cost of a seedbox [or such], collecting what is in reality profit from a third party is clearly crossing a legal line that can be deterimental for d-addicts and it's members. One cannot argue that it is 'not profit' even if the money is actually used to offset personal costs of uploading. it is still profit in the eyes of the law.

the chances are nothing will ever happen ... But the reality is, the longer it goes on, the chances that one day [it will anger] the wrong person and they will start something increases day by day.

...i'm just saying, you know.

there is nothing more that pisses off an industry (or an individual for that matter) than taking money from their pockets. i mean, freely sharing is one thing but profitting from it attracts a lot of eyes.

aaron_yume · Post by **aaron_yume** » Apr 10th, '12, 22:52

I've made my thoughts clear in response to another thread by one of the said uploaders of passworded files but thought I should add my thoughts here where they could be more constructive.

These uploaders do really need to realise that the files they are uploading are copyrighted and the material was produced and created by other people. We are already running our communities in very legally gray areas and as gebageba-kun mentions these current actions of uploaders could result in a real threat of expensive legal action rather than just a slap on the wrist and asked politely to remove files.

No matter how anyone tries to frame what these uploaders are doing, they are basically attempting to monetize uploaded files even if it is only in exchange for discounted or free services (a seedbox for example) and as they are not even required to distribute them in the first place, doing so is tantamount to bootlegging/commercial piracy. Which supposedly fan communities such as D-Addicts frown upon, though it would seem the majority of the leechers are happy to support such people as long as they get their own fix.

Distributing drama to the foreign community to get the chance to enjoy should only be a hobby, unless you wish to go all out and pay for licensing deals which admittedly Japan does seriously need to consider reducing the cost off; but mind that is something for another discussion. If you simply can not afford a seedbox then there are other methods of uploading available to you and just saying that your upload is slow is no excuse!

I have my own small group that very rarely subtitles Japanese material including drama and my very first drama upload weighed in at 1.5gb and I managed to seed it myself off of a minuscule 15kb/s upload over several days. Even now I have secured that my files are constantly available to anyone who wishes to obtain them and have also paid for a further two years of hosting for my website/tracker/ftp (including giving ftp space for free to another subtitling group) while I have no income whatsoever and have been living more or less as a vagabond over a thousand miles away from my own country for over 2 years now (after losing my house and almost everything I owned). I could really do with some money myself but there is no way in hell I would even think about attempting to monetize this hobby for my own personal moral reasonings and standards!

It would seem to me that these uploaders are more motivated by "fame" and monetary gains than what they are supposedly doing for the community. Which is proved even more so by their attitude in response to when other people post their passwords that they will stop uploading or go somewhere else and make it quote "even more difficult for people to download the files". They are the parasites of our community and users should not be angry at the people posting the passwords out of protest but angry at the people causing the need in the first place for this to be done as if you let a few people get away with doing this then everyone else will start to do it and begin to think that it is acceptable!.

I could continue on about how also cyberlockers DDL should never have been used either but I'm sure people are starting to realise the problems here with all the goings on since MegaUpload got taken down as anything that even poses the remotest chance for someone to profit even if the uploader themselves isn't makes themselves a target.

SillyCoCo · Post by **SillyCoCo** » Apr 10th, '12, 23:50

I totally agree. Uploading for profit is really crossing the line. How many other torrent websites do you see doing this? I think it's only done here at D-Addicts.

If this causes the shutdown of my favorite website then I would prefer the uploader stop uploading altogether. If there's no money to upload then STOP.

It's not like there are no other sources / uploaders to download from and they are doing it for free.

dtyc · Post by **dtyc** » Apr 11th, '12, 02:02

I appreciate your thoughts and your explanations. I see your point also. I want to thank you for presenting this on the forum with respect and you are very courteous. Unlike some who come on with a huff and does it with a vengence.

People are trying to find a place they are comfortable continuing to do what they like and what they want, not to mention benefiting many people.

If everyone can put forth their thoughts courteously and with respect, many more will listen. It is all about attitude.

Thank you for a clean and fresh outlook. Gave more more to think about.

XrayMind · Post by **XrayMind** » Apr 11th, '12, 02:43

As I posted in reply to people filing complains with us mods.

Stop reporting people posting password to password protect files. Let's make this clear, D-Addicts is not a password protected website. We don't require you to register here to download file.

So we have no rule that stops someone from posting torrent to files that are password protected and we have no rule that stops someone from post the passwords to those files.

If someone decide to stop upload here, we have no control over it.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 14th, '12, 05:04

In my opinion the arguments above would make sense if we were uploading material produced in the United States, because in that case even if we were in a gray area you would be shut down in a flash. However, the fact of the matter is, we are dealing with Japan, and this country's corporations do not seem to go after copyright infringers outside of its borders.

Just the fact that we are uploading dramas with commercials removed would cause the site to be shut down in the US. It's not the dollars that someone makes by charging to upload; it is the revenue lost because people stop watching TV. The amount that people make to password protect a file does not interest these corporations. The advertisements that this site places on its pages does not interest the corporations.

If the Japanese broadcast companies wanted to close this site down. They would have already because of all the lost revenue from people not watching the commercials that they have on TV.

Also, for the one uploader that I follow, I don't see him doing this for fame or monetary gain. In fact I see the opposite; he is doing it to get people to sub the dramas. This is one way to get some people to help out when they may not normally do so.

In my opinion, you are just fear mongering and blowing this thing out of proportion. There is no basis or previous judgements from Japanese corporations to back up the arguments that you present.

BaekSoo · Post by **BaekSoo** » Jul 15th, '12, 03:42

What's wrong with clicking a few ads? People don't mind it if they can get what they want. What's the big deal right?

Legalities aside, what is the most troubling thing about posting torrents for profit?

Don't underestimate the power of greed. All it takes is just for one person to start and now there are 2 people doing it.

The danger here is that this could be the start for other uploaders doing the same thing and pretty soon everybody wants to make money from uploading torrents. Are we prepared for that?

Do we want that?

Torrents has been free all this time and most of us want it to be free. I totally agree with those opposed to uploaders posting torrents for profit.

It's wrong. Stop doing it.

This will be a serious issue if we don't nip this in the bud.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 15th, '12, 04:58

BaekSoo wrote:What's wrong with clicking a few ads? People don't mind it if they can get what they want. What's the big deal right?

Legalities aside, what is the most troubling thing about posting torrents for profit?

Don't underestimate the power of greed. All it takes is just for one person to start and now there are 2 people doing it.

The danger here is that this could be the start for other uploaders doing the same thing and pretty soon everybody wants to make money from uploading torrents. Are we prepared for that?

Do we want that?

Torrents has been free all this time and most of us want it to be free. I totally agree with those opposed to uploaders posting torrents for profit.

It's wrong. Stop doing it.

This will be a serious issue if we don't nip this in the bud.

I don't understand your argument... the torrent is still free. I'm totally fine with watching an advertisement to get something; it is one of the ways of the internet.

Really, if this is going to be a problem, people will realize it and stop downloading the torrents. It's not like anyone is forcing you to download those torrents. There are plenty of other encodings of the same dramas. If people see the greed, they will stop downloading the torrents. There is no need for this doom and gloom and world is going to end mentality.

Legalities of this whole site aside, there is nothing wrong with it.

For those who are opposed to it, how about if you just ignore those people who are doing it. It will make the majority of the people on this site happier.

SacredCultivator · Post by **SacredCultivator** » Jul 15th, '12, 05:01

SOrry to chime in.

BUt I like how you say; "For those who are opposed to it, how about if you just ignore those people who are doing it. It will make the majority of the people on this site happier.".

Hmmm or... those people can NOT do it like in the past which I believe made more people on the site happier.

Cause you have to realize, before any of this happened, I don't think there was too much to complain about. But once it took place, stuff started to happen.

So if you're going to say "more people being happier"... ouch.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 15th, '12, 05:14

SacredCultivator wrote:SOrry to chime in.

BUt I like how you say; "For those who are opposed to it, how about if you just ignore those people who are doing it. It will make the majority of the people on this site happier.".

Hmmm or... those people can NOT do it like in the past which I believe made more people on the site happier.

Cause you have to realize, before any of this happened, I don't think there was too much to complain about. But once it took place, stuff started to happen.

So if you're going to say "more people being happier"... ouch.

Things change all the time; that's the way life is. I am way happier with D-Addicts and the choices there are now than the choices we had in the past. If you look at the replies to some of the torrents where someone has posted a password protected file, you can see that the majority of the people want the torrent even if there is a password. One of the purposes of this site is to distribute dramas; as someone else so nicely put it "I see so much whining about uploads/subs by people who clearly have no appreciation that people do this as a favor for enjoyment by other Asian drama fans and take personal time to do it."

There's nothing to complain about, if you don't like it don't download the torrents. Move along, there's nothing to see here.

SacredCultivator · Post by **SacredCultivator** » Jul 15th, '12, 05:31

I'll agree with you there. As for the most part I get the 720p raw's so I generally have no issues with it, and at times I get the raw's from livejournal.

So I'm not necessarily complaining myself, it's just others are and I feel what they are saying as right for the most part, but I can understand the other end to, you see opportunity to make money so you take it. I kind of would want to do the same (in respect for fansubs, but I'm restraining from that as it does sorta take away from the whole "fansubbing" term).

Ah wells, it's not bothering me much, I just ignore it and/or get my raw's elsewhere.

Coming from a position of not having any source of income at the moment, is probably the only gripe I have about those making money off something that generally should be free. (I mean it is free, but on the providers end, they are making something they normally wouldn't have).

BaekSoo · Post by **BaekSoo** » Jul 15th, '12, 05:53

Desk wrote: I am way happier with D-Addicts and the choices there are now than the choices we had in the past.

It's only because there's someone else doing the uploading. And NO passwords at all. If not then there would be a monopoly and the sky's the limit then.

Desk wrote: If you look at the replies to some of the torrents where someone has posted a password protected file, you can see that the majority of the people want the torrent even if there is a password.

That's true. It's because but they don't see the harm in it. They say "What's wrong? I get what I want and the uploader gets what he wants."

The danger here is OTHER uploaders may do the same thing. GREED is powerful and it may spread to other torrent sites!!!

Do we want that? Do we want to start a trend? And it all begins here at D-Addicts.

Desk wrote: One of the purposes of this site is to distribute dramas; as someone else so nicely put it "I see so much whining about uploads/subs by people who clearly have no appreciation that people do this as a favor for enjoyment by other Asian drama fans and take personal time to do it."

The whining is because of the GREED!

Desk wrote: There's nothing to complain about, if you don't like it don't download the torrents.

I say if you don't like the complaints then don't upload. (Luckily there's alternative uploader)

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 15th, '12, 14:17

BaekSoo wrote: ...
The danger here is OTHER uploaders may do the same thing. GREED is powerful and it may spread to other torrent sites!!!
...

The whining is because of the GREED!
...

Let's look at the word you are using: *Greed* is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort.

There's no one getting wealthy by having others click on an ad site to get the password. Have you looked at the how much a click gets? There's just not enough people going to d-addicts to make things valuable.

The person who I download from uses the funds to support their seedbox. And given the poor upload ratio of the leechers at d-addicts, this is an important thing to maintain. That is basic survival and comfort to me.

There is no greed here. If there was actual greed going on, then I for one would not take part in it, so would others, and the problem would naturally go away.

BaekSoo wrote: The whining is because of the GREED!

So because there is no greed here, you will stop whining then right? Great.

Drazic · Post by **Drazic** » Jul 15th, '12, 15:07

Desk wrote:
BaekSoo wrote: ...
The danger here is OTHER uploaders may do the same thing. GREED is powerful and it may spread to other torrent sites!!!
...

The whining is because of the GREED!
...

There's no one getting wealthy by having others click on an ad site to get the password. Have you looked at the how much a click gets? There's just not enough people going to d-addicts to make things valuable.

.

What makes you think there aren't enough people to make "things valuable"? Eric mentioned his GTO subs got 5k downloads (A lot more than I thought but it's GTO so I guess it's possible). Now go take a look at one of those referrer sites how much money that would make him. Quite a lot! And that's just for one episode. A drama like GTO has about 10 eps. Do the math and you'll see that the total amount is a lot. Of course just 1 click won't get him a lot of money but all the clicks together will.

Now notice how Eric has suddenly decided to sub 6 or so drama this season (Obvious much?). Now obviously not all of the drama that he picked up are going to be as popular as GTO but I think it's safe to say you can multiply the total amount of money he could make with GTO by 3 or 4 with this amount of drama.

It's a profit deal.

(I'm using eric as an example because he posted download stats but the exact same thing applies to furransu as he's going to get about the same amount of clicks+more from people who don't watch with subs.)

matsumotojun · Post by **matsumotojun** » Jul 15th, '12, 15:37

if the police want to make legal work ,they will surely do it on their own...we had no control over it
and if they really want to do it ,they had do it a long ago ,not wait to someone posting the password linking site to earn money
do you guy think just only post the drama here is enough illegal , if they want to make it hard ,soft illegal word or hard illegal work is no sense at all ...
Stop the itch campains please

SacredCultivator · Post by **SacredCultivator** » Jul 15th, '12, 15:41

Ehhh.... "stop the itch complains please"... Yeah.... that'd happen when the uploader/s stop the uploading with pw/profit(3rd party sites).

Come on you should know that.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 15th, '12, 16:23

Drazic wrote:
What makes you think there aren't enough people to make "things valuable"? Eric mentioned his GTO subs got 5k downloads (A lot more than I thought but it's GTO so I guess it's possible). Now go take a look at one of those referrer sites how much money that would make him. Quite a lot! And that's just for one episode. A drama like GTO has about 10 eps. Do the math and you'll see that the total amount is a lot. Of course just 1 click won't get him a lot of money but all the clicks together will.

Now notice how Eric has suddenly decided to sub 6 or so drama this season (Obvious much?). Now obviously not all of the drama that he picked up are going to be as popular as GTO but I think it's safe to say you can multiply the total amount of money he could make with GTO by 3 or 4 with this amount of drama.

It's a profit deal.

(I'm using eric as an example because he posted download stats but the exact same thing applies to furransu as he's going to get about the same amount of clicks+more from people who don't watch with subs.)

Valuable is a relative term and I probably shouldn't have used it; it's very subjective from country to country.

Let's take a look at adf.ly which is used for advertisements. You can get $6.90/1000 unique views if everyone is coming from the most profitable location (United States). If we take GTO as an example, then in the best case for 10 episodes we make $345. This is the best case. If furransu is actually in France then $345 for 10 episodes doesn't get her/him much. But remember that is the best case; and real amounts are more like $100 ($33/month) given that it's $0.51/1000 clicks if they are coming from Japan and not all shows are that popular.

There's the math. This is not a lot of money and would be enough to pay for a seedbox for a few months.

Furransu does not password protect all the torrents; only enough to generate enough money to cover the cost of the seedbox. This is what Furransu stated, and from what I see, this is exactly what is happening. People who are posting the passwords just means that she/he has to password protect more dramas to recoup costs.

I'm not sure what Eric is doing, I don't download anything from him, but if he is able to sub more dramas, that sounds like a good thing. He's definitely not going to be able to buy much with the 6 new dramas he subs.

If it's a profit deal, it's not much of a profit deal. And if people do abuse it, we would see that and those torrents/subs would die the natural death that they deserve.

Drazic · Post by **Drazic** » Jul 15th, '12, 19:39

Desk wrote:
Drazic wrote:
What makes you think there aren't enough people to make "things valuable"? Eric mentioned his GTO subs got 5k downloads (A lot more than I thought but it's GTO so I guess it's possible). Now go take a look at one of those referrer sites how much money that would make him. Quite a lot! And that's just for one episode. A drama like GTO has about 10 eps. Do the math and you'll see that the total amount is a lot. Of course just 1 click won't get him a lot of money but all the clicks together will.

Now notice how Eric has suddenly decided to sub 6 or so drama this season (Obvious much?). Now obviously not all of the drama that he picked up are going to be as popular as GTO but I think it's safe to say you can multiply the total amount of money he could make with GTO by 3 or 4 with this amount of drama.

It's a profit deal.

(I'm using eric as an example because he posted download stats but the exact same thing applies to furransu as he's going to get about the same amount of clicks+more from people who don't watch with subs.)
Valuable is a relative term and I probably shouldn't have used it; it's very subjective from country to country.

Let's take a look at adf.ly which is used for advertisements. You can get $6.90/1000 unique views if everyone is coming from the most profitable location (United States). If we take GTO as an example, then in the best case for 10 episodes we make $345. This is the best case. If furransu is actually in France then $345 for 10 episodes doesn't get her/him much. But remember that is the best case; and real amounts are more like $100 ($33/month) given that it's $0.51/1000 clicks if they are coming from Japan and not all shows are that popular.

There's the math. This is not a lot of money and would be enough to pay for a seedbox for a few months.

Furransu does not password protect all the torrents; only enough to generate enough money to cover the cost of the seedbox. This is what Furransu stated, and from what I see, this is exactly what is happening. People who are posting the passwords just means that she/he has to password protect more dramas to recoup costs.

I'm not sure what Eric is doing, I don't download anything from him, but if he is able to sub more dramas, that sounds like a good thing. He's definitely not going to be able to buy much with the 6 new dramas he subs.

If it's a profit deal, it's not much of a profit deal. And if people do abuse it, we would see that and those torrents/subs would die the natural death that they deserve.

First of all, the country thing is bullshit. The amount of money he'll make with this is a lot in any country.

And are you seriously saying 345 dollar for 10 episodes isn't a lot of money? It's 345 dollar that's earned mostly using other people's work. Yes I know he does a lot of work himself (not that the result shows it) but what makes that possible is other people's work. If he wants to make money of his work he should be doing other things, getting a job, making his own drama. This amount of money should NOT be involved with piracy. Any money really but this much makes it even worse. It's a profit deal and it's bootlegging.

And what kind of crazy expensive seedbox provider are you buying from anyway. That's easily good for at least two years. And you know what? I consider the seedbox to be profit as well.

Desk wrote: Furransu does not password protect all the torrents; only enough to generate enough money to cover the cost of the seedbox. This is what Furransu stated, and from what I see, this is exactly what is happening. People who are posting the passwords just means that she/he has to password protect more dramas to recoup costs.

He shouldn't do it for any torrents. And like I said, I consider the seedbox to be profit.

Desk wrote:
I'm not sure what Eric is doing, I don't download anything from him, but if he is able to sub more dramas, that sounds like a good thing. He's definitely not going to be able to buy much with the 6 new dramas he subs.

If it's a profit deal, it's not much of a profit deal. And if people do abuse it, we would see that and those torrents/subs would die the natural death that they deserve.

The end does not justify the means. Just because the end result is getting 6 series subbed does not mean it's a good thing. You don't see anything wrong with Eric suddenly picking up 6 drama the moment he found out he could make money with it?

It's a profit deal and it's disgusting.

GaussAlgorithmus · Post by **GaussAlgorithmus** » Jul 15th, '12, 20:23

I don't mind clicking on adfly links to download the subtitles and I don't see how it's wrong to make some bucks with ones work.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Jul 15th, '12, 20:29

Drazic wrote: ... First of all, the country thing is bullshit. The amount of money he'll make with this is a lot in any country.

And are you seriously saying 345 dollar for 10 episodes isn't a lot of money?

I just want to address the above. I'm not ignoring your other stuff, you have a right to your opinions and values, and I'm pretty sure they are founded in something and can't be changed.

The numbers I used are from this page: http://*** Please do NOT post paylinks in the forum! ***/.php.
They are not bullshit. Also, I don't know where you live but $33/month does not get me much at all; there is no way I could make a living off this; I could buy three cheap lunches though.

I don't know where you get such cheap internet service, but if you can, more power to you, and perhaps you can share it with the rest of us. It would only make this site better.

Drazic · Post by **Drazic** » Jul 15th, '12, 20:39

Desk wrote: I just want to address the above. I'm not ignoring your other stuff, you have a right to your opinions and values, and I'm pretty sure they are founded in something and can't be changed.

I didn't say your numbers are bullshit. You said it depends on where you live whether or not 345$ is a lot of money or not. And it's pretty much a good amount of money anywhere. And while the amount does make it more disgusting it's not really the point. Even $10 would be too much.

Desk wrote: I don't know where you get such cheap internet service, but if you can, more power to you, and perhaps you can share it with the rest of us. It would only make this site better.

I was talking about seedboxes, not ISPs. But you can get a pretty good and cheap seedbox from places like pulsedmedia.com or baconseed.org (bacon is out of stock atm though).

SacredCultivator · Post by **SacredCultivator** » Jul 15th, '12, 21:00

GaussAlgorithmus wrote:I don't mind clicking on adfly links to download the subtitles and I don't see how it's wrong to make some bucks with ones work.

Shouldn't have said that at all... Cause that put YOU in a bad position.

So you're saying it's cool and all for bootleggers that sell OTHER people's work (Fansubs), just cause they burned the DVD (so it's their own work)?

Damn yeah I guess that sounds fair. I mean I only took the time with a team to fansub a drama, only so another person can just download it (for free) burn it onto a DVD and SELL it off to make a few bucks. Yeah super "right" for that. (Same applies to streaming sites, mysoju/dramacrazy in particular, as there was a few threads about that issue at the beginning as well)

Oh you~

- - -
Unno, at times it's a bit sad as to some of the things being said on this issue, because honestly, I can see the good/bad of both sides, but as the end of the day, someone is making money where one shouldn't have been (Again I'm referring to the past before these uploaders came by/switched to making money) Cause the primary argument seems to be, "They aren't profiting"... Uhh, hmm in the past I don't recall anyone saying, hey please click this so I can earn some money to "break even" for paying whatever costs it may be. The fact is, through this method they are "profiting" in regard to they aren't paying (so to speak) said charges, where they would have been previously.

GaussAlgorithmus · Post by **GaussAlgorithmus** » Jul 15th, '12, 23:43

SacredCultivator wrote:Shouldn't have said that at all... Cause that put YOU in a bad position.

So you're saying it's cool and all for bootleggers that sell OTHER people's work (Fansubs), just cause they burned the DVD (so it's their own work)?

Damn yeah I guess that sounds fair. I mean I only took the time with a team to fansub a drama, only so another person can just download it (for free) burn it onto a DVD and SELL it off to make a few bucks. Yeah super "right" for that. (Same applies to streaming sites, mysoju/dramacrazy in particular, as there was a few threads about that issue at the beginning as well)

What? Where did I say something like that? Nowhere.
If YOU sub a drama and put YOUR free time into YOUR work, and after that have me click on an adfly link to download the subs, so that YOU get some bucks out of it, then that is fine with me. I did not say anything else.

vulcan300 · Post by **vulcan300** » Jul 16th, '12, 00:50

Other people have been making money off the backs of the uploaders and subbers on this site for years. The sites that stream drama blatantly-steal the sub files and hardsubbed video uploads, and there are no shortage of people doing the same and trying to sell the end product on poorly made DVDs. Do I care? A little perhaps. Has it stopped me and my group from subbing dramas? Definitely not? I don't personally have any need to make money off of it. My situation allows me to do it as a hobby, and d-addicts hosts the sub files for free using the ad revenue it generates (thanks d-addicts!). That's good enough for me.

Others may need the money to fund their activities however. If they do, and it results in the contributing members and leechers getting subbed dramas on a timely basis, no one should be complaining. Every video uploaded, whether password protected or not, is a violation of the creator's copyright. Therefore no one on this site has any right to take the moral high ground on what is right or wrong. If you have to click on an ad to get the password that unlocks the content you want, well, just put on your big boy pants and deal with it. And if you can't deal with it why don't you put your money where your mouth is (if you aren't already contributing) and spend your time uploading files without passwords and/or subbing dramas and posting the results freely?

justironic · Post by **justironic** » Jul 19th, '12, 19:26

For profit or to "pay the seedbox", while I don't like it, that isn't my biggest problem. The fact that it makes the file sharing even more illegal than it already is, is my problem with it all. Do we really want our dramas to end up in legal issues just because someone wants to earn a few bucks? Why can't it just be done by fans, for fans, instead of by fans, for money?
Yes, it is already technically illegal to share shows like we do on here, but trying to earn money on it makes it riskier. I certainly don't like it.

sweetbaby_millenium · Post by **sweetbaby_millenium** » Jul 19th, '12, 20:17

Dear all, it's illogical to justify this activity implying the need to pay hosting feed when it's completely known by everyone that blogspot, livejournal, tumblr and even fb are FREE! Most hosted sites are maintaine by donations, so NO NEED TO PAY FOR ANYTHING, it's just an excuse. Regarding servers, they are also free, and subs don't weight a lot, honestly. There are some servers which allow some gb... It'd take many many srt or ass files to fill them!

Unfortunately, people are ignorant. They will keep on doing this until they have troubled us all. Ways to stop it?
Reporting those sites, can't think of another one now!

blue_typhoon · Post by **blue_typhoon** » Jul 21st, '12, 11:25

About subbing with adfly links:
Since an admin has made a statement regarding this issue, then, there's no stopping such things to happen from now on. Some are upset bec. d-addicts is being considered like a 'second home' to many users of this site, I assume, and are not used to things that come in that do not conform to things that are usually done or deemed acceptable.
I for one, don't really mind the 'donations' and adfly links. I mean I could live with them. I even want to come up with a thread once, with the title "If I have to donate money to a subber or subbing group, who would it be?" My list only includes Heiwa Fansubs, subie, and SARSfansubs. Bec. they are deserving.

Looking at things, I now classify subbers into these categories.

Level 1. Classy fansubber with accurate, fast subs. Never asks for donations or try to profit from them.
Level 2. Slow fansubber with good-quality, profit-free subs.
Level 3. Fast and accurate, good-quality fansubber asking for donations/subs for profit.
Level 4. Fast but low-quality subber, asking for donations/subs for profit.
Level 5. Crappy subber trying to profit from his/her crappy subs.

Yes, there's no stopping Level 4 and 5 subbers to come to d-addicts. We have to live with that. I just hope when you try fansubbing, decide well what level you're taking. And And I do hope for more Level 1s and 2s, and maybe some 3s will come forward.

matsumotojun · Post by **matsumotojun** » Jul 21st, '12, 11:38

justironic wrote:For profit or to "pay the seedbox", while I don't like it, that isn't my biggest problem. The fact that it makes the file sharing even more illegal than it already is, is my problem with it all. Do we really want our dramas to end up in legal issues just because someone wants to earn a few bucks? Why can't it just be done by fans, for fans, instead of by fans, for money?
Yes, it is already technically illegal to share shows like we do on here, but trying to earn money on it makes it riskier. I certainly don't like it.

read my post before
if the police want to make legal work ,they will surely do it on their own...we had no control over it
and if they really want to do it ,they had do it a long ago ,not wait to someone posting the password linking site to earn money
do you guy think just only post the drama here is enough illegal , if they want to make it hard ,soft illegal word or hard illegal work is no sense at all ...

this way of think like that is from the selfish people like DRAZIC , look at him ,if he really want to protect the site ,we have no idea if he handle the upload position like furransu ... in other ways he just said the stupid thing... blah... blah and do nothing

BAD NEWS FOR THE SELFISH PEOPLE : HAHAHA YOU JUST CONTINUE TO POST THE PASSWORD IF YOU LIKE ,WE'LL CONTINUE TO CLICK ON THE LINK

sweetbaby_millenium · Post by **sweetbaby_millenium** » Jul 22nd, '12, 02:02

regarding quality, I'm a pro subber... Meaning: I'm a certfied translator, but from eng to sp and viceversa, i did a course con subtitling and work for a subtitling company. If anyone's interested in quality, I can help with that!

ooyoo · Post by **ooyoo** » Aug 27th, '12, 10:15

What's going to happen down the road when the links to the passwords are expired, deleted and/or blocked? (People are already reporting that links are blocked in their countries!) I hardly think the uploaders who are password-protecting their files are going to stick around D-A forever to make sure the password links work for everyone. Think about it: In two years a member will be all excited about finishing a download for, say, a 2012 VS Arashi episode. Imagine their surprise when the link to the password doesn't work. Imagine their frustration when their PM to the OP goes unanswered because that member has moved on to other things.

If this continues, D-A is going to fill up with torrents that people can't unlock

The way I see it, the so-called 'selfish' people who are posting passwords in the threads are actually doing D-A a favor in the long run.

gebageba-kun · Post by **gebageba-kun** » Aug 27th, '12, 15:33

some people may not think so but tracker sites being shutdown is a reality. anti-piracy groups supported by the MPAA and RIAA are quite active, as well as the FACT "Federation Against Copyright Theft" who went after UKNova a site for tv torrents that even has a strict policy about not uploading material that is available for purchase.

one of the main legal arguments the MPAA and RIAA presents is the following:
“...many other similar operators of p2p networks still enable users to illegally download complete copies of illegally copied movie, television and music content for free, while profiting from advertising, subscriptions or donations.”

by taking a passive stance on allowing passwords [for profit] the circle of interest to the MPAA RIAA and FACT will grow if they set their eyes here -this is reality.
at the very least, we are giving them ammuniton they need for their guns.

take for an instance demonoid, it has been a month since it went under a DDoS attack, the servers shutdown by the authorities, the domain name went up for sale as criminal investergations started, Interpol and several counties involved. all set in motion by the initial request of the MPAA...

torrenfreak.com has this type bitorrent news. take what you read there with a grain of salt but details can be cross referenced.

...in the interests of this site and all involved, lets at least pass on the passwords.

ruru2nd · Post by **ruru2nd** » Aug 27th, '12, 15:44

I don't have problem with advertising to get password, as long the advertising link to correct site & the password is corrent too. Just think that is price you can't pay for thanks to the uploader, without them you can't get the file & view the movie.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Sep 2nd, '12, 17:28

gebageba-kun wrote: ...

by taking a passive stance on allowing passwords [for profit] the circle of interest to the MPAA RIAA and FACT will grow if they set their eyes here -this is reality.
at the very least, we are giving them ammuniton they need for their guns.

...

MPAA - Music Picture Association of America, RIAA - Recording Industry of America. The MPAA/RIAA have nothing to do with and have no interest in Japanese dramas and TV shows. The only time they become interested is when they buy and resell things (like Hayao Miyazaki's movies, or the American music of Utada Hikaru). You have nothing to be afraid of from these associations.

You don't have anything to be afraid of from the Japanese industries, they don't care about this site. If the Japanese industries start selling shows online, then this site would get shutdown whether everything was free or not.

whatabadidea · Post by **whatabadidea** » Sep 3rd, '12, 00:55

So far, this thread can be broken up into a few common themes from the posters; ignorance, accusations of greed and questionings of legalities. In the spirit of pouring petrol on the smouldering fire and in the interests of perhaps gaining some traction, let's talk about these three topics.

Ignorance

GaussAlgorithmus wrote: I don't mind clicking on adfly links to download the subtitles and I don't see how it's wrong to make some bucks with ones work.

The only reason why uploaders who choose to password their files have not faced mass revolt by downloaders is simply because of this perspective, many downloaders don't mind. They believe they are only inconvenienced a few seconds and believe the purpose is to help continue more uploads being available in the future. Thusly this doesn't show any attention or awareness to the legalities (we'll get to that later) or the issues of torrent longevity, monopolisation as well the principles that many in the file sharing community feel are breached by the action.

Accusations of Greed and Profiteering:

BaekSoo wrote: ... Don't underestimate the power of greed. All it takes is just for one person to start and now there are 2 people doing it....

By those who oppose passwording of torrents this has been a cornerstone argument - with the retort by those who either do, or support passwords being that said "profits" are not used for financial gain but for the funding of seed boxes and other such means to support bandwidth to upload new content. Wether this money actually ends up there remains to be seen. Both of these arguments are invalid, as I will explain further below.

Questioning of legalities:

justironic wrote:...The fact that it makes the file sharing even more illegal than it already is, is my problem with it all...

Firstly it goes without saying that IANAL. It is correct that this site is not necessarily the concern of the RIAA or MPAA. However whilst JASRAC, Hobankyo and their kind have not in my knowledge made it clear they are paying any attention to this site at present - that's not to say they won't in the future. Furthermore, I am of the view that money-making for whatever gain off the content they are responsible for "protecting" for the various rights holders they represent will only give them more reason to start to pay attention. We've seen trends in anime studios breaking the unspoken agreement between licensing and fansub groups change in recent years in addition to the tightening of Japanese copyright law recently it would be foolish and naive to suggest the status quo could be upheld forever.

On general principle: the scene has no advertising, and no financial demands. You are not subjected to look at advertising in order to get content. And yet somehow the scene has little problem with hosting, bandwidth, the purchasing of cameras to be used in cinemas, etc etc etc. Because those who can afford it, do it. And those who can't, do not. And in my opinion that's what this place should be - because the cost of passwording content is far too great. It's not ours to charge others for, and not ours to earn in order to continue it. If you can't pay for a seed box with your own wages, then simply don't do it until you have the means to do so. If this is at the potential cost of less content being made available - then so be it. Perhaps there will be the same amount of content but those with the means will step up and provide.

The reality is, that we can't stop it. However, as a downloader, this is what I will do from now on, until I find a better source:

For all torrents that are passworded, I will hit and run them*. That's right, I will not seed them and will leave the swarm the second I'm completed. My ISP allocate customers like me onto a very large address block - so attempts to blocking me will require blocking many other users of the site. In addition my client will be requesting blocks with the password URL in it as higher priority - this is so I can get the password with my Adblock enabled browser and post it into the comments of that torrent as soon as possible so other people are not inconvenienced as I was. You may see this has already become a habit by looking at the other posts I have made.

For all torrents that are not passworded - these will be downloaded by my seedbox and seeded for a couple of weeks or 5.0 ratio - whichever comes first. I'd keep them longer, however I don't have enough disk space. This may change if I get more storage, or it's a torrent I really enjoyed watching.

Your turn.

* Only the torrents I actually want to download in the first place - I'm not getting on every passworded torrent for the sake of it.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Sep 3rd, '12, 02:30

whatabadidea wrote: ...
If you can't pay for a seed box with your own wages, then simply don't do it until you have the means to do so. If this is at the potential cost of less content being made available - then so be it. Perhaps there will be the same amount of content but those with the means will step up and provide.

Maybe for you, but if furransu stops uploading, that's basically all of my content going away. The other uploads are in a format, size or have gaudy subtitles that I can't use.
There are plenty of chances for people --- including you --- to step up and post the equivalent content that furransu does but nobody has. If you want to eliminate these other password protected torrents, please step up and upload.

whatabadidea wrote: ...
For all torrents that are passworded, I will hit and run them*.

Yes, well this is probably what 1000 other people do as well (but they don't discriminate on password protected torrents). And this is why we need seedboxes in the first place.

whatabadidea wrote: ...
For all torrents that are not passworded - these will be downloaded by my seedbox and seeded for a couple of weeks or 5.0 ratio - whichever comes first.
...

I can hit the 5.0 ratio in about a day. You'll probably need to seed to a 500.0 ratio in order to make a difference.

If you want to do something worthwhile, how about if you teach people how to seed like you know how. Then the whole paying-for-a-seedbox issue will just go away. However, in d-addicts, I'm pretty sure the chance of this happening will approach 0.

j-popsuki with its enforced ratios has it right, but I'm not saying that's the way we should do it. I'm fine with supporting seedboxes.

whatabadidea - you are fighting the wrong war.

Drazic · Post by **Drazic** » Sep 3rd, '12, 12:42

Desk wrote:
whatabadidea wrote: ...
If you can't pay for a seed box with your own wages, then simply don't do it until you have the means to do so. If this is at the potential cost of less content being made available - then so be it. Perhaps there will be the same amount of content but those with the means will step up and provide.
Maybe for you, but if furransu stops uploading, that's basically all of my content going away. The other uploads are in a format, size or have gaudy subtitles that I can't use.
There are plenty of chances for people --- including you --- to step up and post the equivalent content that furransu does but nobody has. If you want to eliminate these other password protected torrents, please step up and upload.
.

I've said this before in another thread, there's no reason at all for furransu to be the only one doing this. Re-encoding pubraws isn't rocket science and almost anyone can do it really. The only part that can be sorta hard is setting up a japanese p2p program but you don't even need that for most of the shows as 720p raws get uploaded more fairly often nowadays so you can just use this as a source. I'd personally rather not see people re-encode already encoded pubraws but if people insist on having smaller sized raws, so be it.

And in case you're going to ask why I don't do it then. I'm not interested in re-encoded pubraws. I'm also not that interested in uploading 720p raws as I feel the uploading of raws leans more towards "piracy cause it's free" rather then "piracy because it's the only way" and prefer sharing a complete subtitled product. I'm not going to deny that it's important but it's just not something I'm interested in doing, especially not the way furransu does it.

Desk wrote: Yes, well this is probably what 1000 other people do as well (but they don't discriminate on password protected torrents). And this is why we need seedboxes in the first place.

We don't need them, it's very, very nice to have but as internet connections become better they'll become more and more irrelevant. I'm at a point where I could very easily upload and seed torrents with my home connection I just think it's cool to have a seedbox as well and can spare the money for it. It's also a nice way for me to give something back to other groups I like by helping them seed their torrents.

The main advantage of a seedbox is pernament seeding and afaik furransu doesn't do this. He's only using it for initial seeding and that is imo a bit of a waste. He doesn't even do batch torrents. For intital seeding (like the first months or even year it's just nice to have, definitely not needed).

Desk wrote:
I can hit the 5.0 ratio in about a day. You'll probably need to seed to a 500.0 ratio in order to make a difference.

If you want to do something worthwhile, how about if you teach people how to seed like you know how. Then the whole paying-for-a-seedbox issue will just go away. However, in d-addicts, I'm pretty sure the chance of this happening will approach 0.

j-popsuki with its enforced ratios has it right, but I'm not saying that's the way we should do it. I'm fine with supporting seedboxes.

whatabadidea - you are fighting the wrong war.

You mean like this?

That's definitely not a bad idea, however with home connections becoming better and better I don't think we'll even need to teach people how to seed as there won't be any real incentive to try and not to seed if you have no bandwidth limits. I realize the US is still quite behind on this but in the rest of the world it's getting a lot better and the US will eventually follow.

jpopsuki is far from perfect. It's very easy to upload for a while and then have so much ratio that you'll never have to seed again. A better example would be asiandvdclub but there it can be quite hard to get a good ratio without downloading popular stuff you don't want. And as for me when i'm uploading stuff I do it to share the drama or whatever i'm uploading. hit and runners don't really bother me that much.

Desk · Post by **Desk** » Sep 3rd, '12, 14:56

Drazic wrote: I've said this before in another thread, there's no reason at all for furransu to be the only one doing this. Re-encoding pubraws isn't rocket science and almost anyone can do it really. The only part that can be sorta hard is setting up a japanese p2p program but you don't even need that for most of the shows as 720p raws get uploaded more fairly often nowadays so you can just use this as a source. I'd personally rather not see people re-encode already encoded pubraws but if people insist on having smaller sized raws, so be it.

Well there it is @whatabadidea, as Drazic says, it's easy. How about if you pick it up? You will make some people happy; and if you are quick and regular with your uploads, then you will make a lot of people happy.

Drazic wrote: I'm at a point where I could very easily upload and seed torrents with my home connection I just think it's cool to have a seedbox as well and can spare the money for it. It's also a nice way for me to give something back to other groups I like by helping them seed their torrents.

That's great, but unfortunately most people are not as knowledgeable or capable as you about bittorrent. They turn their computers off when they are not using them. Downloads take them about 30 minutes with the 10Mbps download. And cable lines (the dominant type in North America) are asymmetric so uploads are 20 times slower and would take 10 hours. It's easier (and since no one is monitoring) to delete the torrent from the client before a good share ratio is achieved. Also, since there is a 100GB monthly bandwidth cap and it's hard to find out how much of the cap you've currently used, that's even more incentive to stop seeding early.

In case you are wondering, this is what a ratio is like after downloading (I've set the ratio to stop at about 1.0, so you can see the time required to seed it)...

Drazic wrote: That's definitely not a bad idea, however with home connections becoming better and better I don't think we'll even need to teach people how to seed as there won't be any real incentive to try and not to seed if you have no bandwidth limits. I realize the US is still quite behind on this but in the rest of the world it's getting a lot better and the US will eventually follow.

Yes, people can seed, but will they? Not in North America. See above for the reasons.

I don't see anything improving in the future. There is no government legislation that is being approved to remove the caps even though associations are trying hard to get the caps removed. The cable and telco companies have a lot of power here.

BaekSoo · Post by **BaekSoo** » Nov 12th, '12, 09:39

Looks like the mods and admins have made a decision and are no longer tolerating password protected torrents.

This is very good news indeed for D-A. After all, how many people actually keep the zip file after extracting it?

And more importantly when there's requests for the torrent to be seeded and the zip file has been deleted. What then? :alcoholic:

The powers that be have just made D-A a better place and I would like to thank them for making this important decision!

Post by **Keiko1981** » Nov 12th, '12, 10:05

BaekSoo wrote:Looks like the mods and admins have made a decision and are no longer tolerating password protected torrents.

This is very good news indeed for D-A. After all, how many people actually keep the zip file after extracting it?

And more importantly when there's requests for the torrent to be seeded and the zip file has been deleted. What then?

The powers that be have just made D-A a better place and I would like to thank them for making this important decision!

I haven't seen it announced anywhere, or I have missed it.
If that's the case, thank moderators.

BaekSoo · Post by **BaekSoo** » Nov 12th, '12, 10:14

It was announced at the shoutbox. Do you see it now? This is actually the second time it was announced. The first was some time back.

Please feel free to click on the report button when you see anymore password protected torrents. It make the job of the mods for removing the offending torrent that much easier.

Post by **Keiko1981** » Nov 12th, '12, 10:18

BaekSoo wrote:It was announced at the shoutbox. Do you see it now? This is actually the second time it was announced. The first was some time back.

Please feel free to click on the report button when you see anymore password protected torrents. It make the job of the mods for removing the offending torrent that much easier.

Yeah, now I see it.

I don't look so often in the shoutbox.

jdfan2012 · Post by **jdfan2012** » Nov 12th, '12, 10:19

BaekSoo wrote:And more importantly when there's requests for the torrent to be seeded and the zip file has been deleted. What then?

In addition what if the password site or uploader have deleted the page...
And this is happened often

GrimDark · Post by **GrimDark** » Nov 22nd, '12, 03:20

I have tried pm'ing Furansu about a problem I have, and also posted in a thread, but had no reply, I wonder if anybody who is friends/knows Furansu could help make them aware of this, I can't be the only one.

I know I have some of their older show releases on a hard drive on another computer whose motherboard has problems, which I did not get the passwords for, not sure till I get it fixed which shows they were.

Please could I ask that they check your links for older shows? Maybe put up a text file via a link with the passwords for all the episodes per show? They would still make money for the click, and we could download the passwords to keep them safe.

My life is kind of hectic, in a bad way right now, so I don't know when I will be able to get that machine working, but when I can, of course would like to finally watch, and re-seed the shows.

Sorry if this kind of query has been answered this elsewhere

Post by **MoerkJ** » Nov 22nd, '12, 23:36

Password protection and zipping/raring of files contradicts our philosophy of free file sharing. It should be common sense not to do that.

It makes no sense to release torrents containing large archives of video files. Doing so makes it almost impossible to reseed later because nobody keeps his/her dramas in zip or rar files.
→ no releases of rar/zip packed video files please
Protecting files with passwords makes only sense to keep releases within a closed community. But this also means you should release the passwords with the torrent (e.g. in the torrent comment) or you should use always the same password. But we are an open community which needs no password protection. Passwords released through Adfly (or similar services) may be lost if the ad service goes offline or becomes unavailable and makes the torrent useless.
→ no password protected files please

If an uploader needs monetary compensation he/she should ask for a donation (e.g. paypal or webclicks). But please don't ask for it in the forum. Rather release the torrent packaged with a .txt or .nfo file which contains the relevant details.

ladysaotome · Post by **ladysaotome** » Dec 19th, '12, 03:23

Awesome - this is great news. So what about all the older torrents that are out there with expired links to the password? Should they be reported as they are encountered? At least, if the password hasn't been added in the comments by someone?

Post by **MoerkJ** » Dec 20th, '12, 06:31

Yes, you may report bad torrents using the forum's report function. Since we don't use an own tracker anymore, we don't really have the ability to check if a torrent is alive or not. Broken torrents or torrents that became otherwise useless or non-working may have to be deleted and perhaps re-uploaded. It also might be the right moment to create a batch torrent for the drama. You may want to ask the original uploader for help first, (see batch upload guide (Q4) for details).

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