[Discussion] Ooku ~ Tanjou ~ Arikoto . Iemitsu-hen

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Oct 21st, '12, 09:30

From Jdrama Weblog
Official Website
www.tbs.co.jp/ohoku2012

Broadcast
Fridays, 10.00 – 10.54 p.m. from 12 October 2012

Station
TBS

Story
During the reign of the third shogun, Tokugawa Iemitsu, an infectious disease called red smallpox spreads only among young men, causing the population of males in the country to plummet to one-fourth that of the population of females. Iemitsu himself passes away suddenly of this illness too. Fearing that the Tokugawa bloodline would be cut off, Iemitsu’s wet nurse Kasuga no Tsubone sends for a young girl whom Iemitsu sired outside Edo Castle, makes her dress as a boy and secretly brings her up as the shogun within the castle’s inner palace. When the girl is 13, she is violated by a bodyguard who is later beheaded. After that, the girl will not open her heart to anyone. When she turns 16 as Tokugawa Iemitsu, Kasuga no Tsubone forcibly detains the monk Madenokoji Arikoto who has come to Edo from Kyoto and presses him to return to secular life. Together with his disciple Gyokuei, Arikoto is made to serve in the inner palace as Iemitsu’s attendant. In an audience with Iemitsu, Arikoto is astonished to realise that the shogun is a female.

Characters
Sakai Masato as Madenokoji Arikoto
The good-looking third son of the court noble, Madenokoji, he left home to become a monk. He comes as the new head monk of Ise’s Keikoin to give thanks to the shogunate and catches the attention of Kasuga no Tsubone who forces him to return to secular life and become Tokugawa Iemitsu’s concubine. He stubbornly refuses, but some incident spurs his return and he enters the inner palace as Iemitsu’s attendant. Learning that a young girl is shackled to the unbearable fate of shogun, he decides to sacrifice everything.

Tabe Mikako as Tokugawa Iemitsu
Called shogun in the inner palace, she is actually the daughter of a woman whom Tokugawa Iemitsu assaulted during a walk around Edo at night. The only blood relation of the Tokugawas, she is secretly brought to Edo Castle’s inner palace by Kasuga no Tsubone after her father’s death and had been living in the inner palace dressed as a male. However, she is violated by a bodyguard and the child between them is dead at birth. She does not open her heart to anyone until the kindness of Madenokoji Arikoto touches her.

Tanaka Koki as Gyokuei
Madenokoji Arikoto’s disciple. His parents passed away before him and just before he died destitute, he was saved by Arikoto. Ever since then, he has had complete faith in Arikoto. He returns to secular life with him and becomes his dependent. He has the spirit to stand up against the bullying against Arikoto in the inner palace.

Hirayama Hiroyuki as Inaba Masakatsu
Kasuga no Tsubone’s biological son. He served as one of Iemitsu’s attendants in order to stand by his mother. After Iemitsu’s death, it is decided that he will “die” and act as Iemitsu’s body double.

Naito Takashi as Sawamura Denemon
Ostensibly an instructor of swordplay at the inner palace, he is in fact Kasuga no Tsubone’s watchdog who monitors Madenokoji Arikoto’s surroundings and does all her dirty work. One of the few people who know that Iemitsu is a girl.

Aso Yumi as Kasuga no Tsubone
Tokugawa Iemitsu’s wet nurse and the head of the inner palace. After the death of Tokugawa Iemitsu, she makes her son Inaba Masakatsu “die” and sends for Iemitsu’s hidden daughter and raises her as a boy. To keep the bloodline going, she supplies Iemitsu with a succession of handsome men including Madenokoji Arikoto.

The show is subbed by Heiwa Fansubs, they just released episode 1. The first episode was really good. What will happen next?

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Oct 25th, '12, 00:47

the first episode are very good, indeed.. got a massive potential. good casting as well..

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Oct 26th, '12, 08:22

I also enjoyed the second episode very much. I think the situation for Arikoto and Gyokuei must feel unbelievably frustrating, the Ooku is hell. I also feel very bad for Kasuga no Tsubomes son. On the topic of Kasuga no Tsubome, this woman is a villain of first class! When she opens her mouth I start to get hateful feelings already. So twisted and cruel. I haven't read the manga, and don't want to be spoiled but I hope that she will pay. A thousand times and over.

aoi-chan · Post by **aoi-chan** » Oct 28th, '12, 11:45

My favourite Drama this season & it's such a big project, too.
The story is based on Yoshinaga Fumi's work and she is one of the best mangaka out there. The story span several generations and this dorama is the starting point. They will tell the next plot in the cinema after the end of the series and the next project will continue in 2013.

I am so happy that Sakai Masato is chosen for this role. I wouldn´t started watching Jidaigeki if not for him. His acting is so mesmerizing this time. There's so much strength in his gentle expressions, his voice all the same and his gesture, my my, when he opened that door in the 3rd Episode approaching Iemitsu, beautiful! It's Yamanami-han all over again, just better.

I will also like to give my kudos to Tabe Mikako. She's a great acting opponent for Sakai-san, look at that angry face in Episode 3, I love that one and Aso Yumi's too, just listening to the way she talks can scares me. They have make me a complete fan of the show.

This is the beginning of something really fun and I'm looking forward to follow it. I hope Sakai Masato will be in all the works. Thanks to everyone who uploaded the series!

^___^

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Oct 29th, '12, 03:11

I like it!

I was a fan of Ooku TV series, the original one, and I'm a fan of the Tokugawa clan, I'd watch any drama about the Tokugawa people. I underestimated this Ooku-Danjo Gyakuten version in the beginning, because retelling history in reversed seem stupid to me. Not to mention, I heard that the first film in 2010 had many BL/yaoi scenes. (I don't like yaoi stuff)

But I respect Sakai Masato as an actor alot so I decided to check on this one, and I was impressed. The story writer (in this case, I believe, it's the manga-ka) did very well in rewriting the story into a reversed situation, and it makes sense.

So I watched the first film too, and I really loved Shibasaki Kou as Yoshimune! I'd really like to see more of her as Yoshimune, too bad she only appeared in the last half of the film

I think I can really watch Ooku-Tanjo (2012) back to back with Ooku-Daiisshou (2004). 'Daiisshou' was the original version of Iemitsu-Oman story, where Nishijima Hidetoshi played Iemitsu and Seto Asaka as Oman. The general plot stayed similar, just that its in the reversed situation. I really enjoyed this combination of faithfulness to history yet its a fictional reversed situation.

I started reading the manga too... I love Yoshimune's plot at the end, too bad it wasn't included in the film. I have always want to see drama adaptations of the unpopular Shoguns like Ietsuna, Ienobu, Ieshige, Ienari, etc. These Shogun's story has never been made into any TV/movie adaptation, so I'm really looking forward to the continuation story of Yoshinaga's Ooku! ^o^ I'm definitely going to read them all!
In the beginning, I read the English version, but the ancient English bothers me, so I prefer to get the raws

I just love the fact that the manga stay quite faithful to history (even added narration of what was really written on history records) and the drama/movie adaptation of the manga stick to the manga to a tee

And to see Kanno Miho's Tsunayoshi (from the trailer) is just as nasty (yet has an innocent side too) as Tanihara Shosuke's Tsunayoshi (Ooku - Hana no Ran/2005) is a real treat! I'm going to be in Japan on the premiere day of Ooku-Eien (Sakai Masato, Kanno Miho), so I'm definitely gonna catch it on the theatre!^o^

aoi-chan wrote:They will tell the next plot in the cinema after the end of the series and the next project will continue in 2013.

Usooo.... are you serious? I was so sad when I read a tagline in Ooku-Eien's website that says "The Last Chapter of the Big Sequel Project", I was like, what does that meeaan?

So I thought they're not gonna make another sequel after Tsunayoshi-hen. So they will make another sequel next year?

Can you tell me the link to the article that mentions this?

aoi-chan wrote:I am so happy that Sakai Masato is chosen for this role.

Me too! You'd think they'd go for another Johnnys since the men are suppose to be binan/bishonen in Ooku, so Sakai Masato is a great surprise! Not that I have anything against Johnnys (I'm a fan, ha)... but I just think something as great as Ooku-Gyakuten deserves a real actor as the lead

Sakai-san is really a jidaigeki star, ne!^v^ Yamanami was my first met with him, but he definitely owned Iesada, his portrayal as Iesada was unforgettable.

aoi-chan wrote:I will also like to give my kudos to Tabe Mikako. She's a great acting opponent for Sakai-san, look at that angry face in Episode 3,

I don't really like her as an actress, she's definitely the different type than Shibasaki Kou and Kanno Miho, so I thought she doesn't suit a female Shogun role. But looking into the story, I finally see why she was casted as Iemitsu, she does fit the role esp. a girl role that disguises as a boy. She's quite good as Iemitsu, just that she's too young for Sakai Masato, Arikoto and Iemitsu are suppose to be about the same age in the manga, but this is definitely a nitpick complain

aoi-chan wrote:I love that one and Aso Yumi's too, just listening to the way she talks can scares me. They have make me a complete fan of the show.

Aso Yumi totally rocks as Kasuga! She's a better Kasuga than Matsushita Yuki in Ooku-Daiisshou. Aso Yumi will be a memorable Kasuga on par with Kiki Kirin.

aoi-chan wrote:This is the beginning of something really fun and I'm looking forward to follow it. I hope Sakai Masato will be in all the works.

I think Sakai Masato in both Iemitsu-hen and Arikoto-hen is enough though, as much as I love his acting

I prefer them casting different leads for the other 'hen' just like the original Ooku series. Iesada-hen is what I'm looking forward the most (mangawise and adaptation), and I might want to see Tanihara Shosuke as the male version of Atsuhime

Just hope they won't cast someone like Ninomiya again. I mean, Nino was excellent in GANTZ, but he's a big no-no for jidaigeki stuff

MaiKitty wrote:On the topic of Kasuga no Tsubome, this woman is a villain of first class!

Yeah, if you think of it, its all her fault that Iemitsu and Arikoto experiencing miserable things. But perhaps we have to thank her too, that Iemitsu and Arikoto met and fall in love

MaiKitty wrote:When she opens her mouth I start to get hateful feelings already. So twisted and cruel. I haven't read the manga, and don't want to be spoiled but I hope that she will pay. A thousand times and over.

As much as I hate her in every adaptation, but I have to admit she's an excellent politician and leader. If its not because of her, the Tokugawa Shogunate would have fallen apart in Iemitsu's era, be it in the real history or in this Ooku story. In history, Kasuga was indeed involved in politics, and she had a role in establishing the solid Shogunate. In this drama, everything she said after

was right. Her reasons of why they have to take those steps are quite true and clever. So I don't think she's totally at fault. The Sengoku and Edo period demand its people to do cruel things to survive.

Ending of Ep3.... aww, the love story started, can't wait to see the next eps ^v^

raven_frost · Post by **raven_frost** » Oct 29th, '12, 13:49

Sakai Masato has been doing a great job with his character especially switching between the different ways of speaking. But I'm not sold on the love between the two main characters. It is clear that Arikoto is a compassionate man who wants to reach out and heal people's hearts, and now that he can't do it for the common people, he decides that his purpose will be to save Iemitsu from herself.

I hope Tanjou covers more than the love between Arikoto and Iemitsu, and Kasuga no Tsubone's evil manipulation to get a male heir and spares to continue the Tokugawa line. Psychologically I would imagine that given Iemitsu's past, wouldn't she fear being close or touched by a man? There are bits where there have to be suspension of belief.

Anyway, according to history, Kasuga no Tsubone did actually persuade the abbess of Keikoin to become one of Iemitsu's concubines.

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Oct 30th, '12, 05:49

raven_frost wrote:Sakai Masato has been doing a great job with his character especially switching between the different ways of speaking. But I'm not sold on the love between the two main characters. It is clear that Arikoto is a compassionate man who wants to reach out and heal people's hearts, and now that he can't do it for the common people, he decides that his purpose will be to save Iemitsu from herself.

For me, its more of the difference of age that bothers me, also they don't look good together (feel of mismatch) and Sakai-Tabe don't really have much chemistry. If the story continues focusing on their love story, I'm afraid the ratings will go down lower and lower

I hope the drama covers Ietsuna-hen a bit too.

raven_frost wrote:I hope Tanjou covers more than the love between Arikoto and Iemitsu, and Kasuga no Tsubone's evil manipulation to get a male heir and spares to continue the Tokugawa line.

I haven't read Iemitsu-hen in the manga (watching the faithful drama, anyway), but looking at other hen-s, seem to me, romance is the main plot for every 'hen', not to mention to see the tagline for Iemitsu-hen: jun'ai (pure love). The manga-ka did include other plots like the 47 ronin plot, or other political battles... but those stays as side-stories, and the climax scenes are always the romance part.
However, each hen has different kind of love... the pure one, the dark/dirty one, the innocent one, the tragic one. The type of love in Tsunayoshi-hen is very interesting for me, I think its gonna be my most fav so far. But I have, yet, finished "Tanjou", so I'd hold back the comparison.

aoi-chan · Post by **aoi-chan** » Oct 30th, '12, 21:43

@yanie

you're right, it's going to end with the movie T_T
I was so excited I only read 2013 and since I know that the manga continues after Tsunayoshi, I naturally thought the will continue with it too.

You're going to be in Japan for the premiere? Cool, I'm considering about going there for it too ^_^

Do you mean Iesada in Atsuhime? I completely missed that one.

About the age difference, maybe it's not Tabe who's too young for Sakai, but it is Sakai who's too old? ;) Because they should be about the same age when they first met right? And Tabe is about that age now.

Anyway, it's great stuff and it's fun to talk about it with you guys.

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Nov 7th, '12, 13:28

haha, you're right, it's Sakai who is too old. But I'm thinking he's gonna fit Emonnosuke's role (in the movie sequel, Tsunayoshi-hen) so much... so I'm guessing he was casted as Emonnosuke first, then since the characters in the manga says Emonnosuke resembles Arikoto alot, he was casted as Arikoto too

Episode 4, the scene and conversation between Arikoto and Kasuga near the end

When Kasuga said,

I felt goosebumps! Sakai Masato and Aso Yumi's acting performance in this scene was top-notch! I really love the lines in this scene, too! Much better to see this scene on the drama live-adaptation rather than the manga.

raven_frost · Post by **raven_frost** » Nov 7th, '12, 14:55

^^

I'm sure it was something TBS was keenly aware of when they casted Sakai Masato. They must have run through a whole list of possibilities maybe even by referring to NHK taigas! But since the story leans towards Arikoto as the lead character they would have had to have a heavyweight.

zooey · Post by **zooey** » Nov 7th, '12, 15:53

yanie wrote:haha, you're right, it's Sakai who is too old. But I'm thinking he's gonna fit Emonnosuke's role (in the movie sequel, Tsunayoshi-hen) so much... so I'm guessing he was casted as Emonnosuke first, then since the characters in the manga says Emonnosuke resembles Arikoto alot, he was casted as Arikoto too

Totally agree. I actually thought the same thing. Overall, it really is a smart move on the part of TBS because for the life of me, I can't think of anyone else to play Arikoto. Sadly, all the young male actors who are within Tabe Mikako's age range are either idols with affectations or actors with modern looks and contemporary mannerisms. With Sakai Masato, viewers can at least rest assured that the character is given a certain level of maturity and gentility.

And Aso Yumi as Kasuga totally rocks in this. My skin crawls every time I hear the irony in her laughter (or should I say cackle?)---I've come to think of it as a harbinger for some necessary evil.

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Nov 8th, '12, 04:45

Totally agree with you both... casting Sakai is a necessary, because somehow he suits jidaigeki roles most perfectly. That's why I said Tabe is too young for him, bcoz I'm wishing Iemitsu is played by other actress instead... who look more mature.

But if Tabe is going to play Ietsuna too in this drama ... then I guess I should have no complains, I guess TBS don't have other choice. (Tabe would be perfect as Ietsuna, age-wise related with Arikoto's age by then)

Its unbelievable to see just how perfectly suited Sakai Masato is for jidaigeki role, I wonder if its because he has an ancient type of face?

aoi-chan · Post by **aoi-chan** » Nov 10th, '12, 10:29

Yeah I think they cast for the movie before the dorama too.
Emonnosuke is certainly more suited to Sakai-san and Kanno-san as Tsunayoshi is perfect. I can't imagine anyone else playing but her.

But the characters ages in the dorama too, I wonder how Tabe will play it. For Sakai-san it will be natural for his part.

yanie wrote:Its unbelievable to see just how perfectly suited Sakai Masato is for jidaigeki role, I wonder if its because he has an ancient type of face?

Maybe, he certainly looks better in Hakama than in suits ^^ and his gestures are beautiful!

Btw since Yanie mentioned Atsuhime a while back, I start watching it and wow am I impressed. Sakai's Iesada was heartbreaking and Miyazaki was so lovable >_<

aoi-chan · Post by **aoi-chan** » Nov 10th, '12, 11:25

Just watched Ep 5... oh my... that last scene with Arikoto and Gyokuei, it was so sad T_T I think even more than Arikoto and Uesama ever been.
I love the changes in Arikoto's heart and the complexion of his virtue. This is getting better and better.

seichan1188 · Post by **seichan1188** » Nov 10th, '12, 13:14

Man... ep 5 is very emotional T__T. Arikoto started to change. He looked a little scary at the very last scene with eyeballs and kibishii expression T__T

The scene of Masakatsu's family was really good, too. Heartbroken... ;_;

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Nov 13th, '12, 11:22

seichan1188 wrote:Man... ep 5 is very emotional T__T. Arikoto started to change. He looked a little scary at the very last scene with eyeballs and kibishii expression T__T

The scene of Masakatsu's family was really good, too. Heartbroken... ;_;

Ooku is a cry-fest. I agree, that scene with Masakatsu watching his family was so, so heartbreaking. I think his wife knows that he is still alive in her heart. Maybe that was why she was there.

And the whole ending with Gyokuei and Arikoto.

I love this drama, it is so touching.

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Nov 14th, '12, 02:38

can someone indulge me..

what's the movie related to this series? probably with some synopsis.. from my understanding, this series are 'prequel' to the movie.

love to find and watch the movie. the series definitely in my top 3 watch list this season..

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Nov 14th, '12, 08:52

digitalcoconut wrote:can someone indulge me..

what's the movie related to this series? probably with some synopsis.. from my understanding, this series are 'prequel' to the movie.

love to find and watch the movie. the series definitely in my top 3 watch list this season..

How the movie is related, I guess you have to know about the Tokugawa's real history first, if you don't know much about that yet.

Tokugawa Shogunate was established in 1600, by Ieyasu, Iemitsu's grandfather. Ooku, the Shogun's harem was officially established during Iemitsu's reign. Iemitsu is the 3rd Shogun (the lead of this series). Yoshimune which was played by Shibasaki Kou in the movie, was the 8th Shogun.

So basically this prequel tells about the ancestor of the 2010 movie's Shogun character. And this series tells the beginning of how the Shogun position was taken by women instead of men (FICTIONAL), also how the Men Ooku was established.

In the movie, the world has already accepted that Shogun is women and the harem is filled with men, like it's a common thing. It wasn't shown in the movie, but in the original manga, Yoshimune was trying to study the real history of Tokugawa shogunate from an elderly scholar, and she got a shocking fact that Shogun used to be men until Iemitsu's reign, Yoshimune didn't believe that at first, she thought the world had always been dominated by women, and that's how the story turns to a flashback of the birth of Men Ooku, as told by the elderly scholar to Yoshimune. By manga vol. 6-7, the story will go back to Yoshimune's time.

Shoujofan · Post by **Shoujofan** » Nov 17th, '12, 10:02

Well, yesterday I finished the third episode. I'm a great Ooku fan, and I read the Yoshinaga's manga in the American edition. I was not very confident in Masato Sakai. Arikoto is such a dear and really difficult character, but now, I'm in love with him. Some sequences were changed or included to favor Arikoto's character or help the adaptation but the result was above all my expectations. I'll watch episodes 4 and 5 this weekend and I'm really eager for the rest...

My only and real dislike is Aso Yumi as Kasuga. The actress is too young and I expected someone with a contralto voice or something like it... But the Aso is good, only not Kasuga for me.

seichan1188 · Post by **seichan1188** » Nov 17th, '12, 16:28

OMG! I love every episode of this drama, flailing after watching each, without failure up til now!! O___O

Ep 6 is emotional as well as ep 5. I really really love the storyline of Masakatsu. I was moved watching him trying his best to grab the only chance to be near his son T_T.

The hot scene didn't knock me out (well, somehow still feel them mismatched

), but the next part was well-depicted. The way both of them accepted the fate was more heartbreaking than the first time they struggled against it T_T. Heart and body seemed to be different matter, but you never really can separate them. I can understand Arikoto's thoughts, and that's a practical reaction.

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Nov 19th, '12, 09:08

seichan1188 wrote:Ep 6 is emotional as well as ep 5. I really really love the storyline of Masakatsu. I was moved watching him trying his best to grab the only chance to be near his son T_T.

Please refresh my memory, Inaba's subplot wasn't in the original manga right? Or was there?

I've started to get used of Sakai-Tabe pairing, and like to see them together a bit better... but they still look awkward somehow... it felt like a grown man with a little girl scene

Nothing's wrong on their acting and I think they have good enough chemistry... it's just Tabe's face... too young, she look like 13-14 for jidaigeki level... if only she has more mature face^^

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Nov 23rd, '12, 03:34

yanie wrote: How the movie is related, I guess you have to know about the Tokugawa's real history first, if you don't know much about that yet.

Tokugawa Shogunate was established in 1600, by Ieyasu, Iemitsu's grandfather. Ooku, the Shogun's harem was officially established during Iemitsu's reign. Iemitsu is the 3rd Shogun (the lead of this series). Yoshimune which was played by Shibasaki Kou in the movie, was the 8th Shogun.

So basically this prequel tells about the ancestor of the 2010 movie's Shogun character. And this series tells the beginning of how the Shogun position was taken by women instead of men (FICTIONAL), also how the Men Ooku was established.

In the movie, the world has already accepted that Shogun is women and the harem is filled with men, like it's a common thing. It wasn't shown in the movie, but in the original manga, Yoshimune was trying to study the real history of Tokugawa shogunate from an elderly scholar, and she got a shocking fact that Shogun used to be men until Iemitsu's reign, Yoshimune didn't believe that at first, she thought the world had always been dominated by women, and that's how the story turns to a flashback of the birth of Men Ooku, as told by the elderly scholar to Yoshimune. By manga vol. 6-7, the story will go back to Yoshimune's time.

thanks for responding.. but anyway, my simple question is, whats the title of the movie?

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Nov 23rd, '12, 12:17

The first movie is simply titled Oooku. 大奥 in japanese. On IMDB the subtitle is The Lady Shogun and her men, the japanese subtitle is 男女逆転 (Danjougyakuten) basically saying that this is the reverse harem story (Men and Womens roles interchanged).

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Nov 26th, '12, 01:00

on ep07, enlighten me..

why kasuga angry about flowers /celebration, and complaining to arikoto?

did the shogun iemitsu currently sleeping with 2 man (gyokuei and the newest samurai /onatsu)? im quite confuse why arikoto asked gyokuei to sleep with the shogun. i understand about the monk prophecy. but arikoto could ask him before kasuga appoint the new concubine for the shogun..

its very painful love story but they seem can live with it now cause the bigger problem are coming (the disease)

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Nov 26th, '12, 06:00

digitalcoconut wrote:on ep07, enlighten me..

why kasuga angry about flowers /celebration, and complaining to arikoto?

Did you watch Ep7 with Heiwa Fansubs? the english subs is available already.
If you watch it with subs, the reasons should be pretty clear already.

digitalcoconut wrote:did the shogun iemitsu currently sleeping with 2 man (gyokuei and the newest samurai /onatsu)? im quite confuse why arikoto asked gyokuei to sleep with the shogun. i understand about the monk prophecy. but arikoto could ask him before kasuga appoint the new concubine for the shogun..

Again, the English subs will explain this. But to add to that, just like how the original Ooku series depicted (where the concubines are women), the Shogun's harem consists of a few groups of allies. The concubines makes allies and enemies within Ooku, and its usually the Imperial Court's princesses from Kyoto vs the Samurai princesses/common women from Edo. Kyoto women vs Edo women.

Arikoto was born in Kyoto, in an Imperial Court family (noble class), while Onatsu was the son of a Samurai family. They do not get along. If Onatsu's child become the next Shogun, worst thing could happen, Arikoto might be kicked out of the palace after Iemitsu's death. Safest way for him, is to let Gyokuei, who was born in Kyoto and sides Arikoto/nobles to give the Shogun a child. If the child become Shogun, it will strengthened the nobles' position in Ooku, because the noble's blood runs inside the Shogun.

However, Arikoto is not the type of ambitious guy, I don't think top position in Ooku is his aim. Basically since he loves Iemitsu very much, he just want her to have a child that strongly comes from his side.

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Nov 26th, '12, 14:33

It's amazing how much love Iemitsu still feels for Kasuga. I understand that she is the closest thing to a mother she had, but then she killed her mother. This is truly a love/hate relationship. Arikotos character as a monk really shines through in the way he handles Kasuga. He has so many reasons to hate this woman, it would even be understandable if he wanted to kill her. He is too kind. Gyokuei, while also being a monk, does have many more conflicting emotions. I guess, it is like Arikoto says in the last episode, he and Gyokuei are light and shadow, or shadow and light. It is clear that a child from Gyokuei would be almost like his own, so it's understandable that he chooses Gyokuei. Concerning the future children, how will they know who the father of the child is, if Iemitsu is sleeping with Onatsu and Gyokuei at the same time? That'll be harder to figure out in this reverse universe.

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Dec 3rd, '12, 14:08

I found the blog of a person who seems to be a big Ôoku fan who reviews the episodes and the manga and has generally interesting inside views on japanese society and gender studies. You can read that here if you're interested.

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Dec 6th, '12, 00:36

looking forward for masakatsu family reunion.. that was the first thing came into my mind after..

badly need an antagonist..

empty_movement · Post by **empty_movement** » Dec 6th, '12, 12:55

yanie wrote:Please refresh my memory, Inaba's subplot wasn't in the original manga right? Or was there?

Nope, the Inaba subplot wasn't in the manga. The only thing closest to a "back story" Masakatsu got in the manga was the flashback to Kasuga's past... which isn't much of a back story, let alone a subplot. The manga always gave me the impression that Masaktasu doesn't have his own family, only his mother. Still, I don't find the subplot distracting from the main story so no complaints there.

As for the uneven relationship between Arikoto and Iemitsu, casting Sakai-san--as wonderful an actor he is--was a crucial error. They really should have found someone who looks closer to Tabe's age (she looks the part) since in the manga Arikoto is Iemitsu's senior by only 2-3 years. He's perfect for Emonnosuke though.

empty_movement · Post by **empty_movement** » Dec 6th, '12, 13:05

MaiKitty wrote:Concerning the future children, how will they know who the father of the child is, if Iemitsu is sleeping with Onatsu and Gyokuei at the same time? That'll be harder to figure out in this reverse universe.

I don't think Iemitsu sleeps with both of them at the same time; rather, I get the impression that she will favour one concubine over the other and see the favoured Groom/Ochuro for an extended period. That's why Gyokuei was telling Iemitsu to favour him over O-Natsu (but not over Arikoto lol).

But that is an interesting question, especially with regards to Tsunayoshi, who is much more promiscuous than her mother...

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Dec 13th, '12, 03:48

e09

wtf masakatsu cant see his family now? masakatsu himself need to grow some balls, and ask arikoto or the shogun.. he certainly still can serve the realm. no more secret need to be hide..

(im not concern about original manga storyline)

watashiwachiaki · Post by **watashiwachiaki** » Dec 22nd, '12, 09:32

just finished this beautiful drama

now I wanted to watch the 2010 movie while waiting for the 2012 movie

btw, I wanted to clarify, why didn't Iemitsu and Arikoto have a child? (tho as some point Iemitsu thought she's barren, but this was proven to be wrong),
The thought of them not actually having sex occurred to me when in the last episode, the shogun said that "Even when our bodies couldn't connect...that is why you are different from anyone else."

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Dec 22nd, '12, 11:03

Sometimes the man is the barren one, you know. ;)

Of course, they had sex. After Arikoto joined the Ôoku they were together for one whole year, and that's when Kasuga decided it was enough and brought Sutezo into the game. Then when Iemitsu became pregnant from the other men in her harem, it was clear that the problem was Arikoto.

watashiwachiaki · Post by **watashiwachiaki** » Dec 22nd, '12, 13:04

just finished the 2010 ooku movie...
and I luv it

LOOLed so much when Mizuno stepped on the long costume of Ochuros (of Matsushima)

@MaiKitty... haha thanks for clarifying. I am probably over thinking

digitalcoconut · Post by **digitalcoconut** » Dec 23rd, '12, 06:26

they definitely will make a 2nd season /movie /sp right? i assume on the after credits, the young girl showed is the new shogun..

what's the official news?

great series.. imo one of the best this year..

watashiwachiaki · Post by **watashiwachiaki** » Dec 24th, '12, 12:54

i think it was official that there will be a movie showing this month

jasminee · Post by **jasminee** » Dec 24th, '12, 12:59

http://asianwiki.com/The_Castle_of_Crossed_Destinies

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Dec 31st, '12, 22:02

digitalcoconut wrote:e09

wtf masakatsu cant see his family now? masakatsu himself need to grow some balls, and ask arikoto or the shogun.. he certainly still can serve the realm. no more secret need to be hide..

(im not concern about original manga storyline)

I was also a bit dissatisfied with how that storyline was concluded. It made no sense to me that Masakatsu was supposed to be in love with Iemitsu. It kind of cheapens his character in my opinion. But maybe that was only Arikotos interpretation of his suicide. Ahh, I don't know I wished this would have ended differently.

Soooo...Tsunayoshi the Shogun in the new movie, is she the third daughter or the second daughter of Iemitsu? Ietsuna dies later, right? I also thought they called the third daughter Tsunayoshi, but the subs from Heiwa read Tsunakichi.....This is all confusing to me.

seichan1188 · Post by **seichan1188** » Jan 2nd, '13, 12:26

Tsunayoshi is the third daughter, Gyokuei's daughter. The sub misspelled the name to Tsunakichi (same Kanji, different readings).

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Jan 3rd, '13, 05:28

I watched Ooku-Eien (Sakai Masato, Kanno Miho) movie when I was in Japan.

Love it! Its the best Ooku-gyakuten for me, so far. Sakai and Kanno's chemistry was great, love their pairing alot. The story was the best too, compared to yoshimune-hen and iemitsu-hen. It stayed faithful to the manga even to little details, love that.. but....

btw I think the Shogun (Miho) got more screen time than Emonnosuke (Sakai) who's suppose to be the lead.

I'll miss Ooku-gyakuten series, I hope they will make more sequel next year, the manga is still going on, afterall!

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Jan 3rd, '13, 10:48

^ Oh, I'm envious. I want to watch a movie like Ôoku on the big screen. Amazing that it is better than the TV series, because I think the drama is awesome. (Although it kind of ran out of steam in the last 2 episodes) I want to watch the movie! About another sequel, I don't know how succesful the movie was? The drama ratings weren't that good, but who knows....

seichan1188 wrote:Tsunayoshi is the third daughter, Gyokuei's daughter. The sub misspelled the name to Tsunakichi (same Kanji, different readings).

I guess that Heiwa translate their subtitles directly from the japanese subtitle and not by ear. Because they clearly call her Tsunayoshi.

Anyway, that makes it clear now. Thanks for the info.

yanie · Post by **yanie** » Jan 3rd, '13, 12:03

MaiKitty wrote:Amazing that it is better than the TV series, because I think the drama is awesome.

Its just my personal opinion...

But I guess Sakai Masato x Tabe Mikako mismatch pairing is one of the reason, why Iemitsu-hen is not my fav.
Among the manga original plots itself, I love Tsunayoshi-hen the most so far. But the current going-on Ieshige-hen (Yoshimune's successor) in the manga, potentially will be my favorite too.

Oh... Tsunayoshi-hen's themesong by MISIA, Back in Love Again... is definitely much better than DEEPNESS, for me.

MaiKitty wrote:About another sequel, I don't know how succesful the movie was? The drama ratings weren't that good, but who knows....

I don't know how Ooku-Eien is doing, but the previous Ooku movie was quite a success, not sure whether or not it was because of Arashi member, but the manga series itself is a best-selling one, I believe. I still have hopes!

I want to see Shibasaki Kou as Yoshimune, once again!

watashiwachiaki · Post by **watashiwachiaki** » Jan 3rd, '13, 12:20

yanie, i dont read the manga (and i've only seen the other movie and the drama) so im a bit clueless and at the same time confused on the movie. is role sakai playing in the 2012 movie different from his drama role??

seichan1188 · Post by **seichan1188** » Jan 3rd, '13, 13:46

@ yanie: good to hear you love it. Now I have to wait for several more months before the DVD coming out ;_;.

Haha I don't mind whether Sakai or Miho gets more screen time. I love both of theme.

Btw, may you kindly tell me where I can DL the 8th volume of the manga. I did sevarl search before but I guess I had no luck

@ MaiKitty: I really really love 9th episode of the drama and the last is a proper ending, even though some facts looked like just jumping out from nowhere (Masakatsu's love like you previously mentioned for ex.).

As far as I know, Ooku debutted as 8th in the Box office and the next week it has been out from the board =((. I'm disappointed to this result but, well, I remain high hope for it no matter what. Maybe it had strong rivals like One Piece, Skyfall, The hobbit and such... '__'. Uhm, just forget it -__-

@ watashiwachiaki: yes! Sakai played totally different character in the drama and 2012 movie.

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Jan 3rd, '13, 15:10

yanie, I know it is your personal opinion. But there is no reason for it to be wrong.

yanie wrote: I want to see Shibasaki Kou as Yoshimune, once again!

I was really looking forward to the first movie, but I think it was a bit of a let down. Kou is hardly in it, so basically it focuses on Ninomiya's character. It wasn't bad, though, just not as good as I thought it would be. In a drama series it is also easier to have the audience build a connection to the characters and focusing on character growth. A movie is just often too short to do this. But I really agree, I want to see more of Yoshimune, she seemed like a stronger shogun.

@seichan1188
I went to the cinema yesterday and watched Anna Karenina. While there are certainly amazing movies like the Hobbit or Life of Pi, I just would love to watch a movie like Ôoku here on the big screen. I want to see this world come alive with colors and sounds....well, I guess the only way to watch it is in Japan.

I don't think the last episodes are bad, just that the pacing and cut off conclusion of some storylines was a bit bland to me. Like mentioned, Masakatsus story after being built up so nicely, deserved a better ending.

MaiKitty · Post by **MaiKitty** » Mar 22nd, '13, 09:26

Masato Sakai and Miho Kanno (Tsunayoshi in the movie) are getting married. The met at the Ôoku-set! A real-world Ôoku pairing, so sweet! I haven't watched the movie yet, but I think they look really good together. Yay.

antspace · Post by **antspace** » Mar 22nd, '13, 12:17

two of the best actors in the industry! Yay indeed! omedetou gozaimasu to them!

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