Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Discuss Japanese drama series here.

Best Taiga Drama of All Time

Ryômaden (2010)
24
30%
Tenchijin (2009)
2
2%
Furin Kazan (2007)
13
16%
Komyo ga Tsuji (2006)
3
4%
Yoshitsune (2005)
7
9%
Shinsengumi! (2004)
21
26%
Toshiie to Matsu (2002)
6
7%
Aoi~Tokugawa Sandai (2000)
3
4%
Nobunaga~King of Zipangu (1991)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 81

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Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby TenguKing » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:34 am

In commemoration of the completion of the 50th NHK Taiga Drama Gou, I thought it would be nice to reflect on the past 50 years of NHK's hard work by holding a open vote for the title of:

Best Taiga Drama of All Time.

I have not, of course, had the privilege of watching each of the Taigas of the past 50 years, but I have watched more than a handful of them, and enjoyed each one thoroughly in its own way. However, as "of all time" sounds sexier, I'm going to stick with this title, with the justification that we each in some sense have chosen which dramas we decided to watch, and in doing so silently voted in this way as well.

There is no requirement that you have watched every single Taiga, but rather, simply that you have a favorite one among the many (or few) you have watched, and feel strongly enough in support of that drama to cast your single vote in favor of it.

Also, for expediency's sake, I will only be including the past 20 years of dramas in my poll (starting with Nobunaga).

Let the games BEGIN!
Last edited by TenguKing on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby TenguKing » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:38 am

Forum polls are apparently limited to 10 spots so I had to necessarily eliminate dramas... if I've left out your favorite Taiga... I'm very sorry in advance.
Last edited by TenguKing on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby rootabega » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:26 am

I've only watched six or seven taigas (all recent). My vote would go to Atsu-hime (2008). Miyazaki Aoi is excellent in the lead role. Sakai Masato is wonderful as Tokugawa Iesachi (I didn't want to keep watching after he died - he was that good).
Oh, I wish more taigas had such quality leads (and non-intelligence insulting scripts).

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Postby iLLusiOnEr » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm

Ryomaden(2010) then Atsu-Hime(2008). Both from pre-Meiji era..One of three major era that always I have interest in..Sengoku, Meiji and WWII.

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Postby 7th-key » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:55 pm

I've only seen 4 or 5 Taigas but AOI Tokugawa Sandai (2000) and Ryōmaden (2010) were awesome, each in its own way. They're my favorite Japanese dramas.
Rise and fall of the Tokugawa shogunate. :alcoholic:

Gun to my head vote: AOI

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:05 am

Poll painstakingly added... Please VOTE! :)
Last edited by TenguKing on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby iLLusiOnEr » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:21 am

when you started this topic, the poll option should be at the bottom before submit button. if you want to add want, click edit on your first post and fill the poll question and answers. i suggest you make it as multiple choices and listing at least 10 titles worth of taiga..the popular one.

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Postby 7th-key » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:46 am

edit: nevermind
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Postby yanie » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:53 am

Wow, TenguKing, you're asking our favorite among 50 taiga dramas, just wondering... have you really watched that much, at least, half of them?? ^v^

I've only watched some of them and I was trying to be as objective as I can, but in the end I guess I can't be objective abt taiga dramas, it's all about my taste. (but I wonder if there's such 'objective opinion' at all in this world)

Here's my top favorite rank.

1. "AOI - Tokugawa Sandai" (2000) & "Shinsengumi!" (2004). It's a tie and I won't choose even if a gun is pointed at my head :lol Observing some of the taiga dramas, I found out that I tend to like script written by male writers more. Female taiga writers tend to dramatize and romanticize the story (Komyo, Atsuhime, GOU). Male taiga writers tend to write down-to-earth, simple, daily life dialogues and scenes. For example, in AOI, the scene where Gou-Hatsu-Hidetada were talking about Hidetada's successor while eating oranges, relaxing on the porch, or the scene where Gou kept stopping Hidetada from peeing, lol. In Shinsengumi, the scene where Shinsengumi was about to raid an inn and yet Todo Heisuke still can't find his newly-made haori uniform, and apparently someone else was wearing it. Or the scene where the Shinsengumi members were wiping their body half-naked and Nagakura showed how he can move his chest. Trivial scenes and dialogues that we can easily find in daily life. Makes me feel closer to the characters.
AOI was written by James Miki and Shinsengumi was written by Mitani Koki. I admit James Miki beat Mitani in terms of historical accuracy, but then again I'm not watching taiga dramas for the history but for the entertainment.

2. "Atsuhime" (2008). The cast was excellent and the storyline was superb too. I rank this #2 only because I don't find the Bakumatsu period as intriguing as Sengoku, that's why AOI beats this. And, if you ask me why Shinsengumi beats this drama, it is because Atsuhime is about one person, but Shinsengumi is about one group and the fact that the writer can create very well-written characters and how they interact with each other in the group (based on historical facts too, of course) is a plus point for me. Also, the bond between the characters in Shinsengumi are too deep to ignore, as well as the script by Mitani Koki.
But yes! I enjoyed Atsuhime very well too. Especially Atsuhime and Iesada's lovely scenes :wub:

3. "Komyo ga Tsuji" (2006). It was the first taiga drama which made me fully understand the whole Sengoku history. Many scenes were memorable and I remember that the supporting cast stood out more than the two leads :roll Oishi Shizuka did great with the script, I was impressed. But, I guess the fact it's based on an original novel, helps the script too.

4. "Gou - Himetachi no Sengoku" (2011). Many of the main cast were excellent but the writing was bad, most of the time. I had high expectation because Tabuchi Kumiko was the one who wrote "Atsuhime", but apparently "Atsuhime" might be the peak of her talent. Plus, "Atsuhime" was based on an original novel book, I guess that helps the script-writing. "Gou" was her original script. Nevertheless, it was quite entertaining thanks to cast performance^^


Other taiga dramas I have watched, but I don't know how to rank them:

Hana no Ran (1994) - I have only watched the first 7 episodes, because Matsu Takako and Ichikawa Ebizo played the younger version of the two leads. I'm a fan of Matsu and quite like Ebizo too. But the whole thing was too dark for me, reminds me of Onmyouji XD Definitely not my cup of tea.

Hideyoshi (1996) - It was excellent in the beginning, but it got more and more boring by the middle. I didn't like Sawaguchi Yasuko's One too. Plus, I watched it raw, so I guess I couldn't fully grasp the story and the lines.

Toshiie to Matsu (2002) - Only watched 2 seasons of it, back in 2003, because I couldn't find a source for the last 2 seasons that time. I loved it so much the first time I watched it, plus so many eye-candy cast. I tried to re-watch all 4 seasons from the start again, a few months ago, but I guess I have watched too many Sengoku taiga dramas, that the story bored me. It felt like, "gee I know the whole story already, just that this one's from a different POV". Or probably after AOI, no other Sengoku taiga drama can catch my attention XD

Musashi (2003) - I got bored after the first half, and fast-forwarded the rest, so I don't have the right to judge or criticize this drama. But if I have to, I would rank it the last. Ebizo couldn't differ TV acting with kabuki acting. Yonekura Ryoko's character was boring. And the whole story itself is boring for me. I guess I just don't know how to appreciate this taiga drama. I'm sure it's excellent for other people, though.

I wish I can find "Hachidai Shogun Yoshimune", the 1995 taiga drama, written by James Miki. :(


TenguKing, I'm sure you're not a computer retarded :D You can post in this forum afterall. Try this step-by-step guideline:

1. Check your first post in this thread. There's "Edit" button on the right above part. Click that.

2. When the editing page loaded, scroll down and you'll find "Add A Poll" column.

3. Just fill in the poll question box with the question you want. E.g, What's Your Best Taiga Drama?

4. Click the 'Add Option' next to the 'poll option' box and then fill in the poll option like this:
Nobunaga (1992)
Hana no Ran (1994)
Atsuhime (2008)
and so on

5. Click submit and you're done!


If you still don't know how to do it, maybe you can PM the moderator of this forum and ask their help to add a voting poll in this thread.

Or worst comes to worst, someone who can make the poll, can start another thread, make the poll and ask the moderator to merge this thread with the new thread.

Just my 2 cents :roll

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:59 am

Thanks Yanie,

... and the 2 picks thing was a mistake and a creation of my terribly indecisive nature... we're looking for the hands-down winner here so its one user one vote people :)

May the best Taiga WIN!

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Postby yanie » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:05 am

Yay, you did it! :thumright: Aww... the one-vote choice breaks my heart. But I picked Shinsengumi, because there's already 7th-key who will help with AOI's vote :P

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:13 am

Lets call this the preliminary... I've set the poll to ongoing, hoping to collect at least a hundred votes... if theres any complaint as to my having left out your favorite (of all time) then comment with your vote and I'll unofficially add it to the total.

Then we can narrow it down to 5 hopefully and have a time-limit vote and call the winner officially... sound ok to everyone?

DAMN... well I didn't know how to do a 1, 2 poll... see I knew I was an r-tard, someone else should have made it. My apologies... :cry:
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Postby sensei991 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:14 am

I'm a fan of the Bakumatsu period so naturally my top pick is Atsuhime. Second choice, if there had been an opportunity, would be Ryomaden. I am also a fan of the Sengoku period and liked Aoi Tokugawa and Furin Kazan whereas I felt that the scriptwriting for Gou was flawed.

Overall, I think that Atsuhime had the best production (cast, script, music) and it had more of the feeling of authenticity than the others. Also, Miyazaki Aoi was great in showing the growth of the character in the stages of her life.

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:28 am

and Yanie, aren't you watching Taiga dramas for BOTH the history lesson AND for entertainment?

The fact that the stories are tied (in the larger sense at least) to real events and real people makes the story mean more than some random piece of fiction, to me anyway. Note that if this really didn't matter than movies and TV wouldn't take that pause before a show to inform you when a show is based on true events, etc.

Also, the drama format and the (not always, but mostly) good acting helps me to see through the cold hard facts of history books and into the souls of the people (men AND women) who fought, sometimes died, but above all LIVED in what were often very trying circumstances. Many of whom shaped the very country that Japan has become in the present day.

So far, nothing beats Taigas for giving us an idea of the heart and soul of a Historical person, in my humble opinion. Which is why I enjoy them so much.

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:08 am

Also, as far as Hachidai Shogun Yoshimune, I've got the whole series, got through about half before I found that I was thoroughly confused with the story.

Most of the show deals with court politics (with a lot of very mysterious deaths/assassinations) all leading up to his unlikely appointment as Hachidai, and with economic reforms as well as governmental reforms. Though we all like the idea of Abarenbo Shogun... the reality, even the exaggerated Taiga one, ends up being kind of dry unfortunately. I didn't think that I would miss the violence of the Sengoku and Bakumatsu eras, but when there were no battles at all, I must admit that I found myself a little disappointed.

Much better is Taiheiki, which deals with the rise and ultimate victory of Ashikaga Takauji (founder of the Ashikaga Shogunate) and the civil war and imperial court rivalries surrounding the end of the Hojo and the rise of the Ashikaga.

Still though, neither of these lives up to the more recent Taigas like Atsuhime, etc. Dokuganryu Masamune does come VERY VERY close however.

Also, although I am the one responsible for the Hideyoshi finding its way back into the hands of this community, I have to admit that I was also a little disappointed with it, though historically he is hands-down my favorite Japanese Historical figure. Second being Akechi Mitsuhide, especially in light of the fact that he is the great,great,great... great, great grandfather of Sakamoto Ryoma. :salut:

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Postby bmwracer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:24 am

Yoshitsune shouldn't even be on that list, unless you're talking about the worst Taiga ever...
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Postby yanie » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:19 am

TenguKing wrote:and Yanie, aren't you watching Taiga dramas for BOTH the history lesson AND for entertainment?

The fact that the stories are tied (in the larger sense at least) to real events and real people makes the story mean more than some random piece of fiction, to me anyway. Note that if this really didn't matter than movies and TV wouldn't take that pause before a show to inform you when a show is based on true events, etc.

Also, the drama format and the (not always, but mostly) good acting helps me to see through the cold hard facts of history books and into the souls of the people (men AND women) who fought, sometimes died, but above all LIVED in what were often very trying circumstances. Many of whom shaped the very country that Japan has become in the present day.

So far, nothing beats Taigas for giving us an idea of the heart and soul of a Historical person, in my humble opinion. Which is why I enjoy them so much.

You're right. I agree with everything you said. I guess, I just failed in expressing my opinion correctly with the sentences I wrote :P
I love historically accurate taiga dramas, and AOI did excellent in that. But what I was trying to say is, that I don't mind considerable deviation/changes too. Thus, I rank Shinsengumi on the same level as AOI :P

Aw, Hachidai Shogun Yoshimune is confusing? Did you watch AOI? How was Yoshimune compared to AOI? Because I thought, with the same combination writer (James Miki) and lead (Nishida Toshiyuki), I thought I'll definitely love Hachidai Shogun Yoshimune too ^v^

bmwracer, was Yoshitsune really that bad? I always have interest in watching that one, since I'm totally not familiar with Heian period, and thought I should start with Heian now, since I've pretty much memorized the whole Sengoku history already XD

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:29 am

Yeah, and I'm very sorry for leaving out Gou... I just didn't know what else to do since it only gave me 10 options... would have been nice to know that before I retyped out 20 titles... but I digress. I'm sort of torn with Yoshitsune since its the only one we've got about the Kamakura era until this year's Taira overtakes it. You can't deny Yoritomo is a very interesting person historically.

If you want, like I said earlier, go ahead and informally cast your vote for Gou in the comments and it will be noted and if it gets enough votes (at this point one or two would make all the difference) we'll re-run the poll with the top 5.

Thinking back on it, I should have replaced Yoshitsune with Gou but hindsight is always 20/20, and I thought the general negative impressions of Gou that have been going around might leave that drama out of the running. I hadn't considered that people didn't like Yoshitsune as well.

Lets use this poll as a preliminary and then get it down to a smaller number, after which we run a final decisive poll and set a time limit... hows that?

If enough people comment in support of Gou and no one mentions Yoshitsune at all or votes for it, we'll know to leave it out of the final list.

... and I thought the general impression was that Musashi was the worst Taiga ever (though not in my opnion).
Last edited by TenguKing on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ap » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 am

yanie wrote:bmwracer, was Yoshitsune really that bad?


beamer got it correct.

ap

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Postby yanie » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:38 am

TenguKing wrote:If enough people comment in support of Gou and no one mentions Yoshitsune at all or votes for it, we'll know to leave it out of the final list.

That sounds like a good idea :thumright:


ap wrote:beamer got it correct.

ap

Wow, the more I want to see how bad it is, haha.

Can anyone elaborate more on what's so bad about "Yoshitsune"? I see the rating was pretty good. (but of course, rating means nothing)
Last edited by yanie on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:39 am

Well, then that was my bad :(

For the record then this is the preliminary poll to get us to our final top 10 list. At which time SOMEONE ELSE will make the final poll and run it :salut:

Maybe if they know how we can do more than one vote in that as well.

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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:41 am

OMG Aoi Tokugawa Sandai has 0 votes! and Shinsengumi has 2! LOL

Also, so I guess Gou is in (if nothing else because its the 50th), how about Toshiie and Matsu and Komyo ga Tsuji? Yoshitsune out for sure.

That leaves us with (for certain):
-Gou (2011) (is this in for sure now?)
-Ryomaden (2010)
-Tenchijin (2009) (is this still in?)
-Atsuhime (2008)
-Furin Kazan (2007)
-Shinsengumi (2004)
-Aoi Tokugawa Sandai (2000) (is this still in?)
-Nobunaga (1991) (is this still in?)

Any others I forgot that should be in consideration that were left out due to space? Maybe later we can do best Sengoku Taiga and best Bakumatsu Taiga or something like that... might also be interesting to see the general consensus of this community.

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Postby iLLusiOnEr » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:45 am

nah.its just only 10 votes.be patient.if only the poll can be multiple choices with restriction to 3 votes per user for example, then maybe other taiga can get their chances.

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Postby bmwracer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:36 pm

yanie wrote:
ap wrote:beamer got it correct.

ap

Wow, the more I want to see how bad it is, haha.

Can anyone elaborate more on what's so bad about "Yoshitsune"? I see the rating was pretty good. (but of course, rating means nothing)

First and foremost, the lead (Takizawa Hideaki) was TOTALLY miscast: no screen presence and as unconvincing an actor as I've seen... After about six episodes, I had enough.

I think the only reason the ratings were good was because he's a J-Pop star and has a large fangirl base... I think the same goes for Shinsengumi, now that I think about it.

TenguKing wrote:... and I thought the general impression was that Musashi was the worst Taiga ever (though not in my opnion).

Hmm, I thought Musashi was pretty good, though a bit long and drawn out... I guess I'm rather biased, since I've always been a fan of the Miyamoto Musashi character/legend... I've seen most/all of it's incarnations over the years. :P
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Postby TenguKing » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:24 pm

Something surprising I have learned now is that more than a few people liked Shinsengumi.

@yanie
guess you should have cast that vote for Aoi after all... looks like it needs the help... Shinsengumi is apparently doing just fine on its own.

@beamer
Musashi? really? hes just too played out for me. As a black belt in kendo myself, I have to say my respect for Tsukahara Shineimon or even Yagyu Tajima no Kami (not Jubei...) is much higher than for Musashi.

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Postby bmwracer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:30 am

TenguKing wrote:@beamer
Musashi? really? hes just too played out for me. As a black belt in kendo myself, I have to say my respect for Tsukahara Shineimon or even Yagyu Tajima no Kami (not Jubei...) is much higher than for Musashi.

I can understand that, since your experiences are different than mine, which are totally influenced (corrupted?) by film and television.
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Postby TenguKing » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:57 am

Didn't you watch Tsukahara Bokuden (2011)? or did you miss it? I think its still available. You know Yagyu Munenori as the "bad guy" in the Musashi Taiga. I do have to say that the Taiga version of Musashi was the most historically accurate portrayal of the man.

From most accounts, he was a hobo-like guy in appearance (fairly dirty and smelly since he was known never to have taken a bath, after nearly being killed in one) who basically liked to bash peoples skulls in with his custom carved wooden sticks rather than swords (before each battle he'd usually carve a new one).

He did fight some notable figures such as the Yoshioka school that he really did destroy, with the final blow being struck when he cut down a little boy who was the last survivng member of the school's ruling bloodline (as accurately portrayed in the Taiga for the first time!). The other being Sasaki Kojiro, another man who very little is known about, other than the fact that he was beloved by the people, or they would not have renamed the island he died on after him. However, there were many better-known fighters that he didn't fight, which is why in his own time he wasn't very famous. The fame came only in the past century beginning with Yoshikawa's novelization.

Tsukahara Bokuden on the other hand had over 300 confirmed duels (most to the death) in front of the Shogun, all of which he fought using his single sword style. He also is known (though it may be fiction), that he used to say that his school was the "sword of no sword" and is the actual person involved in the story of having avoided a fight in a boat by refusing to fight, a story that often wrongly gets attributed to Musashi. He is much more of the idealized "Musashi" type of swordfighter than Musashi himself actually ever was.

Yagyu Munenori too was quite interesting, and although he was not the best of fighters, he was the father of Jubei (who was supposedly one of the best, though little evidence is available), and he wrote some very interesting book that is a very good philosophical look into the "bushi" mentality of the Sengoku era.

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Postby bmwracer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:41 pm

Tsukuhara Bokuden? A film or drama series?

I'm totally unaware of that character in Japanese history... Time to do some Googling.

Thanks for the heads up. :thumright:
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Postby TenguKing » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:51 pm

@beamer
Its a 7 episode NHK mini-series (2011) available via torrent with .srt subtitles right here on d-addicts. You are SO missing out. He gets involved with the politics of the Ouchi and Hosokawa before the total fall of the shogunate, it's not to be missed.

Also... to the many fans of Aoi... would any kind soul be willing to re-upload onto DDL just the last episode of Aoi with subtitles? Every other episode I've got works perfectly, but I've got the version of the last episode that is frustratingly missing the last few minutes!! I looked all over for it but could never get hold of a subtitled copy that had those last few minutes.

I would be MUCH appreciative. I will keep bringing this community more dramas regardless of course. Next will be Tobu ga Gotoku, I think.

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Postby 7th-key » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:34 pm

sadly, I have the incomplete version of the last Aoi episode, too :-(

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Postby Peggy » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am

Always find it difficult to vote for best or worst of anything. However I had to vote for Nobunaga. Also liked Takeda Shingen I really loved Hojo Tokumune long time ago, Interesting time and interesting people.
Loved Fuurin Kazan.
Could not watch Shinsengumi primarily because of Shingo Katori. He is a charming man and I like him in SMAP but could not meld him into that samurai role at all.

BMW is right on about Yoshitsune.. It's a coulda, woulda. shoulda epic, but not with that little idol in the lead.

Strange but I could not quite think of Ryomaden as a taiga for some reason.

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Postby TenguKing » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:02 am

Top Ten for Finals (update)::

-Gou (2011) (should be in if nothing else because it was the 50th)
-Ryomaden (2010)
-Atsuhime (2008)
-Furin Kazan (2007)
-Shinsengumi (2004)
-Aoi Tokugawa Sandai (2000)
-Nobunaga (1991)
-Hojo Tokimune (liked this one a lot, do others agree?)
-Genroku Ryoran (liked this one a lot, do others agree?)
-Dokuganryu Masamune (liked this one a lot, but too few probably have seen it)
-Mori Motonari (liked this one a lot, but too few probably have seen it)

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rootabega
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Postby rootabega » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:10 am

This is better than a horse race.....it's a taiga dorama race! Thanks to TenguKing for starting this thread.

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Postby bmwracer » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:45 am

TenguKing wrote:@beamer
Its a 7 episode NHK mini-series (2011) available via torrent with .srt subtitles right here on d-addicts. You are SO missing out. He gets involved with the politics of the Ouchi and Hosokawa before the total fall of the shogunate, it's not to be missed.

OK, I'll check it out... After the Super Bowl. ;)
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Postby 7th-key » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:49 pm

Peggy wrote:Strange but I could not quite think of Ryomaden as a taiga for some reason.

Maybe because it was filmed differently from other Taigas I saw.
Wide angles, half-lit rooms, sometimes objects partially blocking the view. A bit claustrophobic.
I thought a bit annyoung at first but then found it worked great with the music and story.

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Postby iLLusiOnEr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:37 pm

rootabega wrote:This is better than a horse race.....it's a taiga dorama race! Thanks to TenguKing for starting this thread.


I don't know about horse race-never been in one.But any movie theme on it is my favourite.

Taiga dorama race; we are not just appreciating the story,acting performance,music,or the scenery but also the tiny little details in the works. i.e. the tea ceremony, how katana is carried (whether with malintent or not), the dialects or how they open that sliding wooden door to a room; basically how japanese people lived at the time of the story which gave the production its added value when this details were carried to the perfection.

Though I've voted, some of the names mentioned piqued my interest. It would be nice if anyone who have the video file can make the batch torrent for it. Maybe even started taiga series of the month for an idea. :salut:

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Postby Peggy » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:36 pm

I'm glad you put Hojo Tokimune in the list. It was a great taiga and I would love to watch it again. I did not d/l at the time. Still remember some of the scenes very clearly.
Especially liked the scene where he lifted up his little son because he was unable to see all the maps on the table. Little boy did not even know this was his father. People in that scene were background to the man and boy. No dialogue needed for great emotions.

This should just be a listing of taigas and not a competition for me. They are all so well done generally.

I would like to see the Nobunaga/Hideyoshi/Ieyasu part of GOU done in a different way. I know it was supposed to be about the women in the Warring Period but I thought the men and their plots and plans were more interesting.

Mori Motonari may be a bit early for some people. Those early times were quite fascinating and always amazed me how the boys in a noble clan were shifted around depending on the politics of the day. No wonder they needed wet nurses and male guardians wherever they were sent. Tthat was the only real family they could know from their early childhood.

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Postby xaxa » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:49 pm

Seen only 2 taigas - Atsu-hime and Fuurin Kazan - so I don't think I have a right to vote, even though I liked them both very much.

PS: And it's probably best to call this poll "Best taiga dramas of 2000s" not "all time", as it seems that majority of users votes only for them.

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Postby TenguKing » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:55 pm

I've got weird feelings towards Ryomaden... my MOTHER of all people decided to get hooked on Taiga dramas during the Ryomaden taiga season (2 yrs ago) and has since become a fangirl (fan-oldlady?) of Fukuyama Masaharu.

So whenever I go to my parents house (for the holidays etc.) I often have to listen to Niji or some other such song of his. So I can somewhat understand those who didn't like that Yoshitsune actor or the SMAP one in Shinsengumi, though to be fair the SMAP guy wasn't too bad at being Kondo (esp when he plumped up before his decapitation scene).

As for myself, perhaps my most hated J-Pop star is Gackt (does he still think hes a vampire?... :| ). Despite this however, and I really really (did I mention really?) really hate Gackt..., my favorite Taiga is still Furin Kazan.

I almost want to hate Furin Kazan simply to spite Gackt, but I try to make myself look more objectively at the drama as a whole, and in this view I must admit that it was still overall the best in my own opinion.

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Postby antspace » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:41 pm

Atsu Hime got my vote, since I loved it so much. The confrontations between Atsu Hime and Ikushima were gold! I also loved Inamori Izumi as Takiyama in this. Sakai Masato was incredible as Iesada too. Miyazaki Aoi is in a league of her own anyway! She was even convincing as Tenshōin.
I only saw this one and Gou and,(half of) Ryomaden. They were all good, but Atsu hime absorbed me and had me crying of joy, of sadness, and of sheer beauty! Please overlook the westerners trying to act in this though, they were terrible actors as in many Japanese productions, but they played only a minor role.

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Postby Peggy » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:54 am

Dear Tenguking.
Please don't call your dear mother anything but an admirer. Being an old lady myself I have always....I repeat.. always hated being called a' fan anything'. I am not a fanatic. I admire some actors more than others. One or two just melt my bones still. I admire dramas and especially taigas. Just don't call me anything but an admirer.
Fangirls are the ones who fall apart at the sight of a Korean bandsinger and so forth.

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Postby bluesilo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:20 am

I voted for Toshiie to Matsu. I haven't watched all of them on the list. But it was my first taiga drama and still think it was the best out of the ones that I have watched.

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Postby bmwracer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:34 am

TenguKing wrote:As for myself, perhaps my most hated J-Pop star is Gackt (does he still think hes a vampire?... :| ). Despite this however, and I really really (did I mention really?) really hate Gackt...

A number of us more commonly refer to him as Bleckt. :P
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Postby TenguKing » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:16 pm

After hearing the negative comments made about the Yoshitsune series on this forum, I began to look for an alternative portrayal of the Genji general that could replace the image of him that I had gotten from the Taiga. However, what I soon found that there really isn't any alternative at the moment, partly because the era is hardly ever covered in drama and additionally because its hard if not impossible to beat the detail of a 50 episode-long series in portraying history.

I can much more easily choose to dislike/ignore this past year's Gou series because I've got a ton of other Nobunaga and Hideyoshi portrayals to choose from (Nobunaga, Toshiie and Matsu, etc.), but as far as Yoshitsune goes, there really isn't any other alternative to the Taiga (2005) for a good depiction of such things as the Battle of Ichi-no-Tani or Dan-no-Ura, things which students of Japanese History, like myself are incredibly interested in.

It's one thing to read the original Heike Monogatari, but quite another to see someone portraying it on T.V., even if the acting itself was mediocre (personally I would not say bad). Also, in regards to the acting, although I must agree that the main star in Yoshitsune as well as many of the supporting actors did rather lack personality throughout, overall I still felt that this lack was infinitely better then the often bad and over-the-top acting we saw this past year in Gou. I'm still not sure how anyone can deny that Nakai Kichi was probably one of the best Yoritomos on film, or complain about Matsudaira Ken as Benkei.

The main point I was trying to make however, is that as it currently stands, Yoshitsune still remains the best vehicle for us to experience the Heian Period, and as such it is very hard for me to remove it from my list of top favorites.

If you can name a better portrayal of Yoshitsune in T.V. or film please do it, because I've just given up looking.

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Postby quandary » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:54 pm

TenguKing wrote:If you can name a better portrayal of Yoshitsune in T.V. or film please do it, because I've just given up looking.



The only complaint I have about Yoshitsune was the performance of Takizawa Hideaki , which was dismal. He was simply the wrong guy for the part. As for the rest, I thought it was pretty good. Aside from this, I've seen all the dramas on your list and would be hard pressed to choose a favorite, I liked them all a lot.

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Postby TenguKing » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:13 pm

Takizawa Hideaki? Thats Yoshitsune right?... yeah its sad isn't it? How the miscasting of the main actor can ruin a show even if all the other actors are cast right. Female cast was so-so (except Ueto Aya who should go back to being a ninja :P ) The actress who played Shizuka should just shut up and keep dancing... maybe take off a few more articles of clothing.

In Yoshitsune's case, Kiyomori, Benkei and Emperor Go-Shirakawa were great. In Gou, even though the Nobunaga and Hideyoshi actors were good, I thought there was something a little strange about Kitaoji Kinya as Ieyasu. But, ultimately the same thing happened where Ueno Juri was miscast as the lead, and this probably ruined what could have been a better show.

However, unlike for Gou and the Sengoku period, there is little in the way of Heian period drama to turn to outside of the Taiga version of Yoshitsune. Taira no Kiyomori has changed this a little, but it's Yoritomo and Hojo Masako are far inferior to Yoshitsune's Nakai Kichi. I really hope they don't make Hojo Masako an "onna bushi" its just wrong...

Also, I wasn't sure if everyone was aware, but throughout history Minamoto no Yoshitsune himself, for some reason, is often portrayed as the "perpetual youth" in art as well as in literature. Maybe someday they'll offer us a grittier more realistic version of "Yoshitsune the Genji General", but until then we're just going to get more Takigawas over and over again.

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Postby quandary » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:25 am

[quote=
Also, I wasn't sure if everyone was aware, but throughout history Minamoto no Yoshitsune himself, for some reason, is often portrayed as the "perpetual youth" in art as well as in literature. Maybe someday they'll offer us a grittier more realistic version of "Yoshitsune the Genji General", but until then we're just going to get more Takigawas over and over again.[/quote]

He was only 30 when he died. I don't know how old you are, but from my perspective, that's the very bloom of youth. :D
As far as Gou is concerned, I don't have any problem with Ueno Juri in the title roll, but making her play the character from the age of eight to fifty was more then you should ask from anyone. I also couldn't buy the idea that she met and had a close personal relationship with every major figure of the period. I realize that when writing these kinds of dramas a bit more artistic license can be forgiven, but this one just got to far out of hand.

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Postby bmwracer » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:54 am

quandary wrote:The only complaint I have about Yoshitsune was the performance of Takizawa Hideaki , which was dismal.

Total agreement.

And with him in the lead, there was no avoiding him... Other than to not watch at all, which I was more than happy to do.
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Postby TenguKing » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:47 am

quandary wrote:He was only 30 when he died. I don't know how old you are, but from my perspective, that's the very bloom of youth.


How about Sakamoto Ryoma who also died at age 33. You've also got Takeda Katsuyori who was 29 at the Battle of Nagashino and Ukita Hideie who was only 27 at the Battle of Sekigahara. Yet, we do not portray ANY of these individuals with actors in their teens or early twenties. But, Yoshitsune for some strange reason almost always is shown that way in cinema and art/literature.

As far as "perpetual youths" go, I think this idea is much better suited to someone like Mori Ranmaru who died at Honnoji at the age of 17, or Okita Soji who became Shinsengumi 1st Squad Captain at age 18 (and died at age 24), or to make a rough comparison to the same Heian era, by the fictional "Atsumori" who was 15 at the Battle of Ichi-no-Tani (the play from which Nobunaga gets his favorite poem).

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Postby zettaiKaren » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:02 am

TenguKing wrote: The actress who played Shizuka should just shut up and keep dancing... maybe take off a few more articles of clothing.
Ha ha that's Ishihara Satomi, not too many fans of her reading this thread I guess... :P

However, unlike for Gou and the Sengoku period, there is little in the way of Heian period drama to turn to outside of the Taiga version of Yoshitsune. Taira no Kiyomori has changed this a little, but it's Yoritomo and Hojo Masako are far inferior to Yoshitsune's Nakai Kichi.
2001's Taiga 'Hojo Tokimune' goes even further back, I think, to the 1200s (Mongolian war), but torrents are hard to find and there's only a tranditional Chinese hard-sub one as far as I can tell.

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Postby Peggy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:47 pm

It is a long time since I watched Hojo Tokimune but it was on TV and I am pretty sure there were English subs.

I would like to see it again but I would still need the subs.

Taigas are not often repeated in my neck of the woods but I would love to see some of the old ones again.

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Postby TenguKing » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:55 am

Sigh... Hojo Tokimune was the shikken or regent who ruled in place of the Shogun who was (supposedly) descendant and inheritor of Yoritomo's regime, and so, no, the "farthest back" drama remains Yoshitsune, unless anyone else (besides myself) has ever watched Homura Tatsu or Kaze to Kumo to Niji to which talks about the Fujiwara kampaku system or Taira no Masakado (respectively).

The Hojo regime was what usurped Yoritomo's Kamakura bakufu as soon as they were able. This was the regime that was ruling when Kubilai Khan decided he wanted more island real-estate (and gold), and the Hojo Regency's political structure was also one of the causes of the confusion in communication between the two countries that ultimately resulted in full scale war.

Also, since I'm just too tired and busy at this point to continue this thread, I'd like to officially declare the outcome of this poll:

1st Place: Atsuhime (2008) - 13 votes
2nd Place: Shinsengumi! (2004) - 12 votes
3rd Place: Furin Kazan (2007) - 4 votes

Unless someone else volunteers to run a final round, then these are the official winners... Congratulations to the winners and thank you to all who participated. :)

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Postby rootabega » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:41 am

Atsuhime FTW!!! :cheers:

I'm going to watch the whole taiga dorama again to celebrate.

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Postby kotsukotsu » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:47 am

Just recently a documentary on life of the women in Edo castle as been posted to D-Addicts as the following torrent:

Rekishi Hiwa Historia #137 - 2013.02.06.H264.480p.mkv

This is particularly good background for the Taiga drama Atsuhime.

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Postby heat6jones » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:35 am

I thought Atsuhime was rather boring. I've only seen three taiga dramas (Atsuhime, Musashi, and Ryomaden) and I felt Atsuhime was the worst of the three.

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Postby metatron » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:52 pm

Dokuganryu Masamune is a classic that should be on the poll.

It would rank top of my list. It's actually what got me hooked on Jidaigeki.

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Postby kotsukotsu » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:37 pm

The subject of this thread is "Best Taiga Drama of All time," but the items for voting are restricted to just some of the Taiga dramas during 2010 - 1999! That is "bait and switch" (deceptive topic). Not only is the tread topic deceptive, but the vote is meaningless since there is no way to block people from voting who haven't seen each single one of these Taiga dramas. Voting results would thus be garbage.

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Postby YukawaManabu » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:36 pm

I was torn between Shinsengumi and Ryomaden, but in the end, I had to pick Shinsengumi. All around brilliant cast. I love the directing, the back stories, everything. This is where I fell in love with Odajoe, haha.

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Postby salparadise » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:58 pm

Agree with user above. No way Dokuganryuu doesn't make it in a Top 10 poll unless you are taking a top 10 of top Taiga dramas since 2000. I guess it show the flaws in this poll and why only 30 people or so voted...

And having Ryomaden as a possibility goes to show you are just picking recent ones and not ones that would be worthy for a top 10.

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Postby Kenitai » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:13 pm

I find it hard believe that MUSASHI(2003) in not in that list, or barely even mentioned. *facepalm* :glare: What's this world coming to? :P

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Postby dramafan9102 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:04 pm

I have watched 4 (Roymaden, Atsuhime, Youshitsune, Gou) and currently watching Yae no Sakura. So far it has to be Ryomaden- from the music to the scenery - amazing. (Although all their soundtracks and stories are amazing)

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Postby cute_angel » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:34 am

My favorite taiga dramas that I watched in order:

Ryomaden
Yae no Sakura
Atsuhime
Shinsengumi
Tenchijin
Yoshitsune

I like the Bakumatsu era the most.

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Postby heat6jones » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:16 am

Shinsengumi sounds good but there isn't a quality version of it available with subs. I hope someone can find the time to get more of these historical dramas available.

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Postby JLove » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:01 am

I really want to be part of the conversation here but unfortunately I can't. I'm relatively new to Japanese dramas (this year) even though I have been interested in watching anything Japanese since 10 years ago but I just didn't know where to get my hands on them.

Then I discovered Mukai Osamu and then it was online rampage finding out about every single drama he was in after I was done with Gegege no Nyobo. I decided to watch Gou particularly for him but found out it was quite a nice drama even before he made his appearance. So Gou was my first and only taiga til now.

I have made the rounds on the internet and I keep hearing Ryomaden and Atsuhime. Maybe because they were highly acclaimed in recent years. So reading all the entries here gave me an idea on what to watch to satisfy my curiosity about the history of Japan. =)

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Postby LanceSalmo » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:38 am

Atsuhime all the way. Loved it!!

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Postby dhisashi » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:35 pm

My favorite Taiga of the ones that I have watched is Atsuhime.

These are the ones that I have watched:

Takeda Shingen (武田信玄) 26th NHK Taiga Drama 1988
Nobunaga, King of Zipangu (信長King of Zipangu) 30th NHK Taiga Drama 1992; Oda Nobunaga
Mori Motonari (毛利元就) 36th NHK Taiga Drama 1997
Genroku Ryoran (元禄繚乱) 38th NHK Taiga Drama 1999; The 47 Ronin
Aoi Tokugawa Sandai (Three Generations of the Hollyhock [the Tokugawa crest] (葵~德川三代~) 39th NHK Taiga Drama 2000; Tokugawa Ieyasu, Hidetada, and Iemistu
Hojo Tokimune (北条時宗) 40th NHK Taiga Drama 2001; Kamakura Period--Hôjô Tokimune
Toshiie and Matsu (利家とまつ) 41st NHK Taiga Drama 2002; Maeda Toshiie and his wife Matsu
Musashi (武蔵) 42nd NHK Taiga Drama 2003; Early Edo period Miyamoto Musashi
Shinsengumi (新選組!) 43rd NHK Taiga Drama 2004
Yoshitsune (義経) 44th NHK Taiga Drama 2005
Komyo ga Tsuji (功名が辻) 45th NHK Taiga Drama 2006; Azuchi-Momoyama Period:Yamanouchi Kazutoyo and his wife
Fūrin Kazan (風林火山) 46th NHK Taiga Drama 2007; Takeda Shingen's strategist Yamamoto Kansuke
Atsu-hime (篤姫) 47th NHK Taiga Drama 2008; Atsu-hime
Tenchijin (天地人) 48th NHK Taiga Drama 2009; Naoe Kanetsugu
Ryômaden (龍馬伝) 49th NHK Taiga Drama 2010; Sakamoto Ryôma
Gou ~ Himetachi no Sengoku (江~姫たちの戦国) 50th NHK Taiga Drama 2011; Oeyo
Taira no Kiyomori (平清盛) 51st NHK Taiga Drama 2012; Taira no Kiyomori
Yae no Sakura (八重の桜) 52nd NHK Taiga Drama 2013; Niijima Yae

:-)

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Postby poikkeus » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:47 am

My favorites:

Musashi - outstanding martial arts Taiga, based solidly on the novel

Hana no Ran - not the 2014 version, but the 1993 version; this is one of the all-time least popular Taiga, but is tensely rendered from start to finish

Furin Kazan - fascinating story of a period strategist

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby tekkichan » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:13 am

my favourite taiga so far is ryomaden, but i do really like to watch aoi tokugawa sendai. i'd really apreciate it if anyone can inform me where i can download the english hardsub. because so far i've manage to fine E1-10 and e31-40

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby Prometheus » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:07 pm

I miss watching quality taiga drama so much. Maybe my perspective is twisted as a non-Japanese person. I must be completely off-base from whatever target audience the producers ever imagine.

Taiga drama used to be what Game of Thrones kind of is right now. And look how super popular GoT is.

Now every other Taiga is aimed at women of over 55+, putting in a female lead, which causes historical inaccuracies. Then the other half have whimsical teen idols or musicians as a lead.

Also, the stories are completely fucked up now. The reason I used to watch is because I wanted real dialogue and real story-telling. You had two people in a room, talking for 5 minutes about something important to the story. You had people who were important, die. Probably because they had to die because that is what they did historically. They probably wouldn't die if the writer had 100% creative freedom without historical constraints.

The complete non-Hollywood way of telling a story is what appealed to me, the low pace and the time to set up large story and character arch is what can be done in a 49 season tv series, but not in a movie.

Now, every Taiga drama has to be a feel-good tv show. I loved the gut wrenching cruel drama with non-black and white morality. Lead characters with true political power have to be whitewashed. All these samurai were war criminals by modern standards. Don't make them out as anything else.

Not to mention the drying up of torrents and subtitles.

Hopefully one of the next 10 drama's will feature an actual actor in the lead, not some effeminate Japanese teenager playing a battle-hardened warlord in his first real acting job, and with an actual decent script rather than something written for elderly bored Japanese housewives. But I fear it won't happen and in 10 years we will see the last taiga drama. And if anything is going to change, they are actually going to copy Hollywood more, not less.

Hopefully they get some inspiration from Game of Thrones.

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby kitty10 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:43 pm

Prometheus wrote:Hopefully one of the next 10 drama's will feature an actual actor in the lead, not some effeminate Japanese teenager playing a battle-hardened warlord in his first real acting job, and with an actual decent script rather than something written for elderly bored Japanese housewives. But I fear it won't happen and in 10 years we will see the last taiga drama. And if anything is going to change, they are actually going to copy Hollywood more, not less.


There might be some hope. Next year's taiga is led by Sakai Masato, who is generally solid, and will deal with the Siege of Osaka.
:heart: 玉木宏、藤木直人、佐藤健... 大好き! :heart:

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby Prometheus » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:48 pm

I think that guy did ok in Shinsengumi or as some noble. But having seen Sanada Taiheiki, I imagine Yukimura as some rock hard masculine guy. Not some feminized guy who looks 15 years younger than he is.


Maybe he is a good actor, I don't know. But he projects the same demeanor as Sanada as he did in Shinsengumi.

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby funnysunny » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Tenchijin or Furin Kazan?! O_O J_J I_I o_O
of course Furin Kazan! XD :dance:

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Re: Best Taiga Drama of All Time (Round 1 - Preliminary)

Postby Sewerrat1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:40 pm

We (my wife is from Okinawa) have watched every Taiga made between 1999 (Genroku Ryoran) and 2016 (Sanada Maru), plus Mori Motonari, Ryukyu on Kaze (only the first 17 of the 23 episodes are available), Nobunaga, Takeda Shingen, and Dokuganryu Masamune, plus Sanada Taiheki (not a true Taiga). My wifes favorite is Takeda Shingen followed by Yoshitsune, Atsuhime, Sanada Taiheki, and Gou. For me it would be Yoshitsune, Hojo Tokimune, Hana Moyu, Fuurin Kazan, and Shinsengumi. I tend to prefer the Heian period and the late Tokugawa period over the late Sengoku/early Tokugawa period. I get tired of sdeeing the Toyotomi/Tokugawa feud over and over, although I would like to see Hideyoshi and Onna Taikoki. We would also like to see Hachidai Shogun Yoshimune.


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