Fansubber Guidelines Rev 2 (Draft)

Discuss fansubbing issues, problems, or learn how to create fansubs.
Sapporo Girl
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Postby Sapporo Girl » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:41 am

I got confused in here somewhere. That's all right because I live in confusion. As a editor/translator and a member of a 2.5 person collaboration, I think I can speak for my partners when I say we'd like to have our own thread for our soft subs. Our schedules and subbing styles at this moment don't allow us to work with others. It's tricky enough as it is.

I chose Gokusen 3 after my partner shared a single episode with me two months ago and we had a long conversation about it. I didn't watch it or those that followed with subtitles. Now I'm taxed with teaching myself Yakuza-speak.

Anyway, it wasn't until after a representative from another group contacted us and asked for a collaboration did I realize that they even had a historical claim. Given our crazy schedules, we decided to opt out on yet another collaboration and go our own way. In fact, from a language learning standpoint, I would love to compare multiple (soft-sub) versions upon completion.

So, isn't it all right to have a threads like these?

Gokusen 3 [Eng subs - Loonie] (Eps 1-10)
Gokusen 3 [Eng subs- SARS] (Eps 1-10)
Gokusen 3 [Eng subs - Henna_Sapporo] (Eps 1-10)

Perhaps more importantly, I'd rather have direct communication with our audience. If we get busy or things get out of control, we make it a point to contact the people who are supporting us and we explain the delays.

In the case of Gokusen 3, I think there is an established audience for that other group and we have no intention of infringing on them. However, for those who view ours, we'd like to give them more of what we have already offered with our current subs. We don't want to compete. We don't want to cheat. We'd just like a single thread that we can run without stepping on anyone else's toes. Maybe I'm misguided, but I'd like to think that some people will support our work because we're giving them our all, not just because the drama is popular. I read the subs of translators I respect even if I don't download the raws.

It would make my year and motivate me beyond belief if a single person said, "Hey, I really don't like Gokusen, but because you did this, this or that with drama xx, I'm giving it a shot."

I don't really have anything else to contribute. I'm just one person with a crazy time-consuming hobby. On the plus side, it's a good learning experience. Good luck with sorting this out.

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Postby quashlo » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:28 am

I should mention all my experience is with Japanese drama, so forgive me if what I say isn't applicable to some of the other genres.

battlegirlai wrote:one show isn't enough to give everyone something to do

Look at the Fansub Map for Winter 2008. For the most part, no group is doing more than one drama. All I'm asking is that we reinforce that with a statement in the guidelines, as a couple seasons ago some group went (in my mind) overboard and announced three dramas or something like that.

Changing topics, I also support separate threads for different versions. If I was using the subs, I would find it awkward to be visiting one thread for a drama and then having to pick which version to use. I like the Thank You button idea, but I don't think the threads should be combined. Personally, I take pride in my work, and I would not necessarily want to be grouped into another team's thread and share posts or commenting space with those subs or the people using them. If the objective is to cut fat somewhere, don't cut it off the subbing threads, which in my mind is one of the pillars of the D-Addicts community... Cut down on excessive image posting or ridiculous "chit-chat" threads.
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Re: re

Postby mgfcortez » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:30 am

well i think even if a group isn't sure they can do all the ep's if no one else has done it and looks like no one ever will.
they should give it a shot because hay its better to have a few ep's then nothing.lol
but i do remember when monkey king was only done to ep 21(even tho gem made the rest.lol) it kinda sucked.
but ppl got to remember that fansubbers do it for free and put in alot of work in how can you do anything but thank them and love them for it :wub:
and i do understand what your saying about ppl saying they going to do subs with no one to translate them.lol
just some guy saying he's going to do it thats crazy and gets ppl hopes up :glare:


XiaoPauli wrote:
mgfcortez wrote:but it seems your saying D-A shouldn't let new fansubbers work on popular dramas...

I didn't say or imply that.


well like i said i wasn't sure i was understanding what you was saying but sounded like that to me what about anyone else?
anyway sorry :whistling:
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Postby abcd99 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:30 am

Sapporo Girl, that's exactly what the proposed changes are about: Multiple threads of the same drama that come from different subbing groups.

The problem to discuss here is whether or not to close the threads once the drama is finished or deemed inactive. On one side, we want to curb redundant threads. On the other side, closing threads may curb feedbacks. This is, I believe, the gist of the debate here.

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Postby gnossienneslent » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:32 am

@ Sappy Girl I'll happily retract the last couple lines on my previous post (unless of course that .5 person is ala Hirst's cow.) The two of you in the Weird Beer group have a wiki entry that definitely reads like an artist statement. I applaud you for taking it to that level, but you are definitely a minority and seem capable of managing any conflict that arises. I think this discussion is geared toward what would be appropriate for the masses that have sprung up, many with only a passing interest in translating a show. They enjoy throwing together a website and discussing everything, but that's sometimes as far as it gets.

I think you bring valuable input to the discussion since most groups scatter once a big group sits on a project. It sounds like you are withdrawing from the project? You're still on it at the subbing map... like I have to tell you that, but I guess I'm seeking clarification.

edit: gotta write faster, I guess...
Last edited by gnossienneslent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby abcd99 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:33 am

quaslo, it's not true. Look at KnD na Sekai. They sub at least two dramas in one season. Right? Check again.

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Postby gnossienneslent » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:40 am

abcd99 wrote:uaslo, it's not true. Look at KnD na Sekai. They sub at least two dramas in one season. Right? Check again.


Yeah, cause there are just way too many French subbing groups out there...
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Postby abcd99 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:23 am

Let us stay away from distracting snide remarks and focus on the actual discussion.

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Postby Sapporo Girl » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:39 am

@abcd99
Thanks for clearing things up for me. I'll catch on one day. 何時か!

@gnossienneslent

I've been called many things, but never Sappy Girl. :w00t: Thank you for your kind words regarding our efforts. Our .5 is Kyle. He's the reluctant underscore that binds us.

I think this discussion is geared toward what would be appropriate for the masses that have sprung up, many with only a passing interest in translating a show. They enjoy throwing together a website and discussing everything, but that's sometimes as far as it gets.


I see. I see. Finally. My brain might have gone dead after clusterfuck...a word I hope to use one day!!!

It sounds like you are withdrawing from the project? You're still on it at the subbing map... like I have to tell you that, but I guess I'm seeking clarification.


Will are absolutely not withdrawing. We might be slow because my 75% art and 25% skill ratio sometimes gets in the way, but it will get done in a reasonable time.

I will leave you lovely folks for today and get busy on episode 10 of our current project.

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Postby battlegirlai » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:48 am

@quashio - its possible that particular season just didn't have many shows that caught the interest of many translators within any single group. who is to say that next season there won't be 2 shows that catch the attention of a few translators within a group...

for example...
you have 4 translators in one group. they may or may not be working on any other projects at the moment...but they do have the free time to take on some new translations...
two of the translators want to translate the new series XX that starts next month...but the other two don't like XX and would really rather work on the new series ZZ...and their fansub group has tons and tons of timers/editors/qcers interested in both...you have to tell the second two translators "no, you can't do ZZ...we can only do YY because of the d-a rule".... is that fair?

what if no other group has said they want to do ZZ? and what if a couple of weeks go by and still no one has claimed ZZ...can these translators then do it? but what if a different group pops up a week after that saying they want to work on ZZ...do the translators have to give it over to this other group because of the rule?

there are just too many "what ifs"

@mgfcortez - yeah, i was very upset when jtv stopped subbing monkey king when jem started releasing the tvrips...i much prefer dicky in cantonese (i still downloaded all the raws and watched them anyway ^_^ i love dicky!). but i think there was more to it than just them being mad that jem was releasing it too. i thought i heard something about them having difficulty translating it so this just made it easier for them to let go of what was giving them so much trouble anyway. so its possible that they viewed jem's releases as a good thing. its hard to tell since they didn't talk much about it.

but i half agree and half disagree with you on the "a few eps is better than no eps" thing. i mean...i really think its best that if you start something, you should intend to finish it. if you can't finish it because of some unplanned reason, like translators vanishing or life and work taking away your free time, then no one can fault anyone for that. but i can see how even one episode of a show subbed is nicer than having none subbed. sometimes you will just take whatever you can get, ya know? ^_^

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Postby gnossienneslent » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:11 am

@abcdefg Then quit nitpicking other people's points.

If this were about French subs then I think we wouldn't be having this discussion in English. My comment may have been snide, but far from invalid. I think it would be a good idea if we define what we are discussing, especially since it was discussion point 2 in the original post, and if my comment opens the way for that discussion I would say it was far more productive than your retort.

If you don't find my comments palatable don't read them.

[spoiler]Side note: the K-drama subs are dominated by With S2 and the Chinese Dramas have groups doing multiple shows. Since you sub Chinese shows you probably already know that.[/spoiler]
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Postby flick.enchained » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:16 am

@gnossienneslent: Haha, I read about that particular 'artist' and the dog being chained up in the name of art as well. :) was quite indignant at first (since I love dogs), but apparently it was almost always unchained and well fed/watered apart from when the dog was 'on display' so to speak, so maybe it wasn't *that* bad in asense. Still, I wish he'd stick with something more conventional next time.

@XiaoPauli: I read your comments with interest, as I thought it was a very unique way of laying out one's argument (shows how much I know ;)) but that aside, I would agree that the proposed 'alternative modifications' are too extreme, particularly with regards a 'non-biased' committee deciding who to award fansub rights to. Although I am new (hence newbie status so apologies if this is an issue) but I would like to be a bit harsh and say that this particular suggestion holds no merit at all for the D-Addicts community.

I do however agree that it is possible that "multiple groups will replicate tasks to more popular dramas that could better be allocated to less popular ones".

@quashlo: Definitely agree with 'intent to sub only after assembling the team'. After reading the comments from subsequent users, I'd have to agree that perhaps one-drama-per-season-per-team may not be appropriate for all.


Just a random suggestion (that isn't meant to be taken too seriously :D): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.
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Postby battlegirlai » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:12 am

flick.enchained wrote:Just a random suggestion (that isn't meant to be taken too seriously :D): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.


i guess that would totally depend upon the size of the fansub group. some groups have upwards of 100 members...some only have 2-3 members...in a group with nearly 100 members, with a quarter or so of that number being translators, multiple projects is not only possible but necessary to keep the staff happy and sane.

with a group capable of doing more than one new show per season, a preference system would be of no real help to them since they'd still possibly only end up with one new project and lots of idle staff

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Postby flick.enchained » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks for the info, battlegirlai :) Wow, 100+ members... that's massive, really massive! ^^

I suppose I should clarify, the preference system wouldn't be limited to just one new project :) The example I gave is just where the original idea stemmed from. What we need here is funky equation that takes into account all sorts of factors such as group size, demand for drama, etc etc :P
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Postby XiaoPauli » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:50 pm

battlegirlai wrote:if you start handing out the "no, you can't work on this show" or giving them allotted credits to claim new shows....

For the first part of the sentence, I agree. This wouldn't make sense in JDramas and KDramas, which already has an abundant supply of contributors. TDramas? I imagine that scenario rarely occurring, which is why I argue that the old clause is fine for TDramas.

For the second part of the sentence, the "credits" idea was not meant to be taken seriously. It was purposely set up to be extreme so that it can generate more relaxed ideas to solve the following situation: existing TDrama fansub groups laying claim to multiple dramas in a short span of time without the resources to handle them in a reasonable time frame or a reasonable level of quality. I don't really recommend using the "credits" idea as a counter-argument for supporting the modified clause.

battlegirlai wrote:some fansub groups are not run like a business.

Oh yeah, of course not. That's exactly why I think the original clause is fine the way it is (for TDramas). I feel that the modified clause supports encourages competition, something which makes more sense for, say, businesses, than the less-developed TDrama fansub network. I know that's not what you probably meant, but I just wanted to point out that the modified clause seems to treat fansub groups more like businesses than the original clause.

flick.enchained wrote:Although I am new (hence newbie status so apologies if this is an issue) but I would like to be a bit harsh and say that this particular suggestion holds no merit at all for the D-Addicts community.

No, that's a good opinion. My "proposed" alternatives weren't meant to exhibit such changes. If I saw anyone implement even one of the suggestions I proposed, I would freak out and say "whoa, let's be reasonable here..." Since some people were advocating the idea of pure competition, which I'm against as a blanket solution to the various fansub networks (specifically, TDramas), I wanted to introduce the extreme ideas of purely monopolies With these two extremes of pure competition and pure monopolies brought to the table, I hoped that a middle ground could be found that's more reasonable for the interesting situation for fansub groups.

So in summary, my argument is: keep the original clause (for TDramas) and maintain the status quo (for now).

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Postby ironicwave » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:03 pm

battlegirlai wrote:
flick.enchained wrote:Just a random suggestion (that isn't meant to be taken too seriously :D): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.


i guess that would totally depend upon the size of the fansub group. some groups have upwards of 100 members...some only have 2-3 members...in a group with nearly 100 members, with a quarter or so of that number being translators, multiple projects is not only possible but necessary to keep the staff happy and sane.

with a group capable of doing more than one new show per season, a preference system would be of no real help to them since they'd still possibly only end up with one new project and lots of idle staff


it's not just a matter of group size either, but also of group productivity...
you can have small groups who are relatively as or even more productive than larger groups, limiting their project scope would be just as unfair as letting large amounts of staff in big groups sit idle...
and the main point is that d-addicts can rule on what is uploaded to the tracker, but they can't rule on what a group subs...
i'm a firm believer that most groups or single subbers will not sub a show they are not interested in, no matter how conveniently some people want to believe that...
telling a subber they can't sub something will more likely result in them taking their work elsewhere, as has already happened in the past...
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Postby XiaoPauli » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:01 pm

Item:
Modified "Competition Clause"

Stance:
Yes.

Argument:
Primarily for the reasons against developed fansub groups prematurely claiming sole rights to fansub popular dramas.

Comments:
Reversed my stance in alignment with my group from compelling new reasons. I still prefer new, inexperienced fansubbers to join existing and developed groups as opposed to duplicating resources in creating a new group, but modified clause allows more freedoms than old one.

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Postby battlegirlai » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:55 pm

the "do not announce a series before you have staff for it" concept has been stuck in my head and is growing on me bit by bit ...it would be less intimidating for there to be less names on the fansub map when you are checking to see if a series you want to sub is open.

but my irritating ability to overthink things to death makes me undecided even more now because if groups don't have "claiming rights", then they are free to announce what they will and try to recruit staff for it without really harming any other group who wants to do the same series. plus its possible that they do have staff for it and they are just wanting to recruit more staff for it.

so...just as a clarification...to the person that mentioned it, what all does announcing entail? like in your recruitment thread? or on the fansub map?

because i don't see the harm of trying to recruit for it if you don't have enough staff as long as you don't put down your name on the fansub map until you get enough staff

anyone have any thoughts about this?

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Postby quashlo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:47 am

battlegirlai wrote:so...just as a clarification...to the person that mentioned it, what all does announcing entail? like in your recruitment thread? or on the fansub map?

In my opinion, the Fansub Map should be the go-to page for the D-Addicts community when it comes to subbing, not just for drama watchers who want to know who is subbing what, but also for subbing groups who want to formally "announce" their intent to sub a drama. Any other form of announcing--i.e., in the recruitment threads, drama discussion threads, etc.--should be considered unofficial.

With regard to groups doing more than one drama:
Again, look at the Fansub Map for Winter 2008... Only one group has "doubled up" (Love Song), and one of the projects is technically a collaboration with SARS. These are two of the bigger groups but they seem to be doing just fine with one drama a season. Spring 2008 is generally shaping up to be a similar situation.

And to clarify:
If a capable group has already picked up one project, but would like to do more, I actually have no problem with them announcing the second project AS LONG as they don't announce it before other groups have a chance to see the first episode or two. Speaking personally, I never announce an intent to sub anything until after I've actually seen the first episode at least... I don't want to put myself through ten weeks of hell because I gambled by announcing early and picked a dud. What bugs me is not so much that some groups do multiple dramas a season but that they announce them all weeks or months ahead, effectively locking out other people and discouraging the casual subber from joining the community because there's nothing but "scraps" left.
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Postby ironicwave » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:03 am

quashlo wrote:With regard to groups doing more than one drama:
Again, look at the Fansub Map for Winter 2008... Only one group has "doubled up" (Love Song), and one of the projects is technically a collaboration with SARS. These are two of the bigger groups but they seem to be doing just fine with one drama a season. Spring 2008 is generally shaping up to be a similar situation.

in case of spring 2008 sars was somewhat bound to gokusen 3 by tradition more than eagerness to sub it, so if a one series per season per group rule were implemented, it would also effectively lock us out from subbing a show we want to sub...
quashlo wrote:And to clarify:
If a capable group has already picked up one project, but would like to do more, I actually have no problem with them announcing the second project AS LONG as they don't announce it before other groups have a chance to see the first episode or two. Speaking personally, I never announce an intent to sub anything until after I've actually seen the first episode at least... I don't want to put myself through ten weeks of hell because I gambled by announcing early and picked a dud. What bugs me is not so much that some groups do multiple dramas a season but that they announce them all weeks or months ahead, effectively locking out other people and discouraging the casual subber from joining the community because there's nothing but "scraps" left.


i'm also not a fan of the weeks ahead claiming business, which is why i was glad that multiple versions had been allowed last year...
anime doesn't have exclusive claiming rights to series and even though there are often four groups or more doing popular shows, the anime subbing community keeps growing, now why is that? if you really want to work at this to share the shows with people, will you want to do it less because group a has 200 downloads more than you do? and you have newbie groups in anime all the time, some of course disappear after a few episodes, but some of them stick around to establish themselves and convince with their quality...

viewing this also from a downloader's perspective... if only one group per drama is allowed, what is a reasonable timeframe to make the downloader wait for subtitles?
i know everybody thinks downloaders should have no say and should just take what's offered, but fansubbers offer to make subtitles and i don't think they should want to be the only ones to make that offer if they will take a year to subtitle a current show... you can take all the time you want, have no pressure when translator issues arise, etc. if you are not going to be territorial about the series...
i work at subbing, but i do still watch subtitled shows myself when i have time... and sure there are older shows i could watch, but sometimes you're just excited about a new show that's coming out and you tend to inwardly groan if the particular show you would've enjoyed watching will be subbed by someone who's notoriously slow... if it takes four seasons to sub a show that lasts one, it's disappointing to a viewer and effectively kills off all excitement for the series... if fansub groups disagree and say there are many people out there who are willing to wait for subtitles no matter how long it takes them, i wonder how much of that downloader feedback stems from conditioned responses due to sub groups delaying subtitles if asked about them too much... mind you, i'm not saying those kind of people don't exist, i'm just saying they are hardly the bulk of the masses downloading...
now before you crucify me for trying to turn the drama world into the anime world or advocating the burger king mentality of downloaders...
i'm just saying that anime has a similar setup even if they are much bigger than us and if the intent is to one day see a lot more shows subtitled, we should at least have a look at what makes the anime community work and possibly adopt some of it...
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Postby battlegirlai » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:17 am

i do think that a group shouldn't put their name down on the fansub map for a show if they don't have staff for it. thats pretty much common sense...but i guess if it needs to be a rule, its not a bad one. but they should be perfectly allowed to recruit for the series before they announce it.

as for the matter of groups doing more than one new drama..if there are no real problems as yet, why potentially muck up something that might not become a problem?

and as for announcing a show months in advance...as a member of a group that has announced shows months in advance, I don't see how this is a problem. as long as you have the staff willing to work on it when it comes out, its fair game

i can tell you that staffing those shows won't even remotely be an issue usually. these are shows that are insanely in demand and the groups may be getting lots and lots of questions from people if they intend to sub it when it comes out. so if they do intend to do it, announcing it on the fansub map avoids questions from a lot of people. (and frankly, even if the show is not good...that won't stop some people from wanting to work on it ^_^ for some, its all about the eyecandy)

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Postby abcd99 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:23 am

I think announcing would serve nothing whatsoever. It's only a show of intent. That's about it. Only real work counts. So, I'm glad that the silly rule of "exclusivity by announcement" is annulled.

"Have it your way" mentality will never work. It only serves to spoil the downloaders. But, yes, having more fansub groups would probably imply faster sub delivery. Competition is good. This is also a good byproduct of the rule abolition.

I believe that the exclusivity-by-announcement rule being abolished indicates a tacit agreement from the mods. We should not regurgitate this issue any further. So, instead of straying away to other directions, let's stay on track on the issue of the merging / closing of completed / abandoned sub threads. So, what's the resolution?

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Postby peacht » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:31 am

abcd99 wrote:So, instead of straying away to other directions, let's stay on track on the issue of the merging / closing of completed / abandoned sub threads. So, what's the resolution?


My personal view is that each group/individuals subs would have their own thread. Any work done on existing subs would go into the thread of those subs.
I don't see why the threads would ultimately need to be merged, it will not result in a huge proliferation of threads when compared to other parts of the forum.
If merging was deemed necessary then a suitable time period should be considered. There may be alternatives to merging with regard to organisation of the subtitle index.
Incompletely subbed series threads could be deleted or removed from the index if the group gives up or if nothing is heard from them/ do not reply to pm after a given period of time.
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Postby abcd99 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:50 am

I favor locking the threads instead. No merging, please.

About incomplete sub thread, I favor to keep it open and keep it listed in the subtitle index. Let's also allow other person to continue the subs where the original author left off, if:
1. The original author expressly abandoned the project and/or gave express permission to other people to continue the project, OR
2. The original author's can be deemed inactive for an extended period of time from his/her last visit date, OR
3. The person already posted his/her intent on the sub thread, but no reply for some extended period of time, OR
4. The person already tried to contact the original author but there's no answer for some extended period of time.

If the incomplete sub thread is part of multiple-subbed drama, then mods should lock the thread. Those who want to continue from where the original author left off should contact mods to transfer thread ownership.

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Postby battlegirlai » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:02 am

abcd99 wrote:I think announcing would serve nothing whatsoever. It's only a show of intent. That's about it. Only real work counts. So, I'm glad that the silly rule of "exclusivity by announcement" is annulled.

I believe that the exclusivity-by-announcement rule being abolished indicates a tacit agreement from the mods. We should not regurgitate this issue any further.


i wasn't implying that announcing was "claiming" a series. the admins have done away with that and i too am glad about it. the issue was on when its appropriate to announce and if it would be a good rule to have for the guidelines

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Postby ironicwave » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:17 am

you're going to have a lot of varying opinions on appropriate time frame for announce as well, months ahead and after i've seen one or two episodes couldn't be further apart from one another...
and both announce time frames have their own validity... it will be hard to find middle ground there...
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Postby peacht » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:36 am

I think people have different reasons for announcing. For some it may not be necessary at all and for others it may help to have a good lead time.
As I see it, our guidelines/regulations are there only to help prevent situations which are problematic or to clarify issues which may seem complicated. I don't think we should try to "regulate" unnecessarily.
So unless there are consequences I can't foresee I don't think we need to specify any detail on announcements.
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Postby abcd99 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:51 am

Agreed on peacht's points. Since announcement doesn't make any difference, people can make any announcement they want. Be it at the first wind of rumors on the series existence or at a decade after the series is released. I think it's inappropriate (and problematic) for mods to regulate it. Those who are insensible in their announcements will be deemed as such by the others, regardless of the regulation.

I had expected this thread to be short. I spotted some trolling and slightly off-topic discussion in the middle. I do hope that we do keep our focus on the crux of the unresolved problems and limit the discussion on tangential points. I hope that the revised rule can be promulgated as soon as possible.

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Postby XiaoPauli » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:47 pm

Agreed on abcd99's points. It looks like there's general consensus for the new modified clause. It's now just a waiting game to see when it'll be official.

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Postby mizune » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:11 am

I finally got the chance to read up on all the posts.
Overall, great discussion! :)

As I see, it ppl are in favor of the change to the competition clause, so yay! Hurdle #1 clear! :dance:

I do agree that by allowing multiple subbers per project, we may end up having a lot more "hit and run" subbers, but that risk has always been there -- even with larger, more established groups. After all, you never know when a member of the group (e.g. translator) will just quit on you, for whatever reason... :whistling: ...*cough*... :fear:

As long as fanubbers take the responsibility to inform/update the public of their situation, I don't see speed of releases being an issue at all. Besides, if another person/group comes along that is more capable of dedicating resources to speedier releases, the modified guidelines give the option now of helping out the original group or starting up a duplicate project of their own -- whichever works best for them.

Regarding managing multiple soft sub threads: I hadn't thought about this at all ^_^; , but I agree that the best solution would be to have each group be able to create their own thread. We just need to modify the rules about how to tag the threads. Since the Subtitle Index thread automatically sorts and indexes all the entries, there shouldn't be any really visible change to how everything works. My only real concern is running out of character spaces in the thread title if the subbing group is added as well... :scratch: Meh... i guess we'll see how it actually goes for a season or two and figure something out if we need to.

Thank you buttons... eh... I don't really like the idea, partially because ppl have enough problems following the simple, ages old, established rule of: Do not request subs :lol
I don't think implementing a button would do too much, especially if we want to keep the threads open for more constructive or elaborate comments. Are the serial "thank you" ppl actually a problem that needs to be addressed (if they are, let me know why and we'll see if we can't come up with something to help that)? If we need to, maybe we can transform the "thumbs up" button for that purpose? It's not getting much use now, as is.... ^_^;

Some ppl have already mentioned it, but I wanted to repeat again that the purpose of these guidelines is to establish a set of ground rules for conduct to minimize unnecessary conflicts between groups based on misunderstandings. All of this is really for the purpose of fostering a healthy environment for fansubbers to communicate with each other and contribute to the growth of the community.

Personally, I am explicitly NOT in favor of establishing rules to regulate the fansub community with how they operate. Establishing rules to regulate who can fansub a drama based on their resources or experience would only stifle growth, create animosity, and generate a massive amount of work for us to follow-up on... The same thing goes for when groups can make an announcement.

The most we can do is to advise new, potential fansubbers things they should consider during the process and on what they are in store for... I think there's already a thread for that around here someplace, but if there isn't, I'll make one and link it as a resource in the first post.

My time has unfortunately been limited recently, so please give me a couple days to rework up the guidelines and related posts accordingly.

In the meantime, I want to reiterate that if there is anything you ever want to contribute to the guidelines discussion, please do. We're always open to new ideas and concerns, and this thread is always open, just for that reason.

Thanks
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Postby abcd99 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:44 am

About the thank you button: It should not replace the usual comment. It's just to allow people to say thanks and minimize the post count (and hence, clutter). Those who want to express elaborate comments, and so forth, will still be able to do so in the usual comment box.

About hit-and-run subbers: C'est la vie. To be honest, fansubbers have their lives. I think mods should allow abandoned projects be continued where they left off. See my previous comments.

About long thread title: Let each fansub group invent their shorthand names.

As for conflicts among fansub groups / fans: I agree. The role of mods here is as arbiters and facilitators, not police.

Mizune, perhaps you could formulate a second draft and replace your first post in this thread. We can start from there.

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Postby mainemanx » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:45 pm

It might actually be here somewhere, but what I need is the Idiot's Guide To Getting Your Wife Into Fansubbing .... if not the Idiot's guide, maybe the Somewhat Otaku's Guide :unsure:


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