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ironicwave Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Total posts: 887 Location: Germany Gender: Female |
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| ironicwave wrote: |
p.s. you don't get your way, you're pissed off, you get your way, other members who have contributed get pissed off...
who has the right to be pissed off here in your opinion? |
Never once did I say I was pissed off, or in any way mean to hint that I would get pissed off if you ignored my suggestions. I'm trying to hold a discussion, and I don't want to piss anyone off. You make valid points but I still stand by what I think.
I wanted to try subbing for the first time. I didn't want to join a group. I didn't want to sub something that's already been subbed (like episode 1), because that would be a waste of time. I wanted to sub something I liked. I wanted to share what I had done, after spending countless hours completing it, and I wanted to get some feedback to be able to grow as a subber.
If I hadn't released the sub myself, but as part of a group, I wouldn't be able to get personal feedback for my first attempt in the same way, or not at all.
If I had chose to sub only episode 1, I don't thing many people would watch it, and I would again not get any feedback.
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sabyJoined: 28 Jun 2007 Total posts: 264 Age: 19 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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well to be quite honest I dont care who does the subs or if that person starts in the middle as long as we have the subs .. . I know its selfish
but then again.. since there are rules about subbing (even if they seem stupid) we should respect them
but i want everyone who is subbing dramas to know that I appriciate their hard work and I am really thankful
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ironicwaveJoined: 22 Mar 2004 Total posts: 887 Location: Germany Gender: Female |
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| saby wrote: |
but then again.. since there are rules about subbing (even if they seem stupid) we should respect them
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There's really no rules for subbing, the rules are only the ones applied to this site. I don't know of any other sites like this though.
The rules on this site however makes for what I feel is a kind of hostile environment for new subbers. I feel it would be in the best interest of the community to nurture new subbers and translators as much as possible. I don't know the state, but from what I read, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of translators around.
| ironicwave wrote: |
another thing... why does everyone on d-addicts have to conform to your views? why don't you conform to ours and join a group or help out a softsubber? cause you don't want to...
well, could very well be d-addicts community doesn't want to let you start a firestorm here for no other reason than to feed your personal whim of the moment...
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It's true that d-addicts doesn't conform to my views right now, but I never said everyone on d-addicts has to conform to my views. What I did was that I brought up the suggestion, and so far not everyone has been all negative. I also asked if someone knew of a site that has different views that would better suite what I wanted to do, that wouldn't require anyone to conform to anyones views.
I also never said I didn't want to join a group, but I might not have been as clear on this point. I said I didn't want to join a group now, and I didn't want to join a group just to try out fansubbing. I might decide to join a group sometime in the future, because that is a smarter choice when working on entire shows, but that wasn't what I was doing now.
My whim of the moment was to try out fansubbing, which doesn't seem to be encouraged very much here. That's why I made the suggestions, based on the first impressions I got after registering as a member.
edit: quoting was wrong
Last edited by linusl on Mon May 19, 2008 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| ironicwave wrote: | let me rephrase "pissed off" with "don't agree with"...
and you think subbing ep 1 would not give you the desired feedback...
you could've posted ep 1, asked the members here to rewatch with your subs for feedback as to your work...
there would've been plenty of options beside the one you chose... |
Again, my points in my previous post for not subbing episode 1:
Subbing episode 1 had already been done, so it would be more of a waste of time, plus I wouldn't learn as much as I had already watched episode 1 with subs, so I knew what the characters were saying, and what was happening - I wouldn't have to work as hard to translate, just struggle with the timing.
Had I in spite of that chosen to sub episode 1, I could have asked members to watch my sub, but I doubt many people would want to watch the first episode again, with a sub from an unknown person, just to see how it measures up. People who hadn't watched episode 1 at all would also most likely rather watch with subs from an established group.
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WroW |
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peachtJoined: 29 Dec 2004 Total posts: 1024 |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Much ground has been covered here already. I'd like to say that the mods debate long and hard about the rules/guidelines and their implications.
I wonder if you thought about contacting tonydesu about your plan to release the next episode. Do you think that would be have been respectful or totally pointless?
He released the last episode just 4 days ago, he has been releasing them at a steady rate. So it's likely that episode 5 would be out soon and people wouldn't have to wait too long.
We have provision for people to start mid way through an ongoing series if the subber is falling behind or if the project is cancelled.
I have also been around for a long time and seen how many people who give a lot can start to feel taken for granted and just end up channelling their efforts elsewhere. We hope to encourage newcomers and value established subbers with our rules._________________ If you have enjoyed series you found here then please help the community by offering to seed the series in Series Of The Month |
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gnossienneslentJoined: 06 Mar 2008 Total posts: 83 Location: Tokyo Age: 20 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Let me start off by saying, thank you for your manifesto. You might try the New York Times next time. I hear they print things like this.
Apparently, yeah. So by your logic, if I don't read the law, baby, I can break into your house, use your kitchen sink for a toilet, set your bed on fire to roast hot dogs, express mail your hard drive to the FBI, use your phone to make prank calls, and that would be cool because your house rules seem, uh, what was it...
| lil'insult wrote: | | seem very unwelcoming to new subbers. |
Oh, yeah. You know, I guess your family might be living there and all, but I, uh,
| lil'insult wrote: | | might not be ready to join a group, or might not want to. And if you are new at something, it's a good thing to be able to get feedback. It's also a good thing to be able to show off some work to maybe get picked up by a group if you don't know where to turn. |
You know because my ways might be better for your family. I know that
| lil'insult wrote: | | you already have an established community where I can reach as many people as possible, this seems like the best choice. |
Absolutely, I don't need the phone book when I have your speed dial. Plus it's way more fun to do it from your place.
If you don't know the rules then why did you go through all the trouble to get all the materials from this site? The raws, I'm sure you got the link that site from rokonoko's thread... you want to use what's here and in order as you like. You've enjoyed the benefit of seeders who are downloading from here to watch subs that are organized. If you did just a little looking you would find the rules for fansubbers and a healthy debate about the rules. http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_60545.htm If you read that you might get some idea of the reasons behind the rules. If you don't like it
| lil'insult wrote: | | if I wanted to I could sub what ever I want, and just put it on another site |
Go ahead.
| lil'insult wrote: | | I didn't want to sub something that's already been subbed (like episode 1), because that would be a waste of time. |
Then on a long enough time scale everything will be a waste of your time, so why bother... really though, you are saying it's a waste for you to do something already done, but not for someone to follow your act.
You know what I'm gonna call your bluff:
You knew you were doing something wrong, whether you read the rules or not. (Yeah that's been pointed out.)
You didn't do this for feedback, but for the glory of a few pages of emoticon laden thank you's. No one ever gives real feedback in these threads. If you want feedback you would join a group and get an experienced editor.
You enjoy playing the victim of the evil mods who shut you down as demonstrated by this thread rather than a message to the mod who shut you down and they could have directed you to more information.
So you got your 15 minutes of fame, and a couple hundred downloads. For someone who broke the rules, don't you think you could show some respect for the people here and for the way the site works? It's obviously been good to you.
♡ Much love
_________________
BadasSubs, For the Hello of it™
Selectively recruiting
©Jane Doe
Subject to terms and availability.
SPQd-a
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| peacht wrote: |
I wonder if you thought about contacting tonydesu about your plan to release the next episode. Do you think that would be have been respectful or totally pointless?
He released the last episode just 4 days ago, he has been releasing them at a steady rate. So it's likely that episode 5 would be out soon and people wouldn't have to wait too long.
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I wasn't really a part of this community until I joined yesterday to be able to post my sub, and I still don't know if I am, since all I do is apparently trying to make people "conform to my views", and breaking the rules.
I did not contact tonydesu before uploading my sub, but I have since done that and suggested that my work might at least be helpful. I'd hate that all the time I put into this would be wasted.
I don't know whether it was disrespectful or not of me not to contact tonydesu, or anyone else for that matter, before releasing my sub. I still would have wanted to finish my own first sub and release it alone, and I still think that he should have continued with his sub (if that is what he planned to do) for the people that has been using his subs. If I had told tonydesu about my sub, maybe he would have skipped this episode and told people to just watch my sub instead, which I think would be a bad thing (for consistency if nothing else). In that case I do think it would have been "totally pointless" to contact him.
On the other hand, he might have been able to save his time and do something else, which might not have made it "totally pointless".
I wanted to try out fansubbing and I don't think that such a thing should be discouraged in any way. My initial idea was just to make a low quality sub with sloppy timing and only translating the parts that didn't require too much research. I thought I'd provide this as a quick fix for people waiting for the proper subs whether they are tonydesu's softubs or sars hardsubs.
However, I am too much of a perfectionist to do anything half-assed, so I ended up putting half my soul into this, and spending way more time than I had expected.
In retrospect it might have been a good idea to contact tonydesu first, but this was something that I wanted to do alone.
Last night at half past one I was tired and wasn't thinking about contacting anyone, just upload the file and go to bed.
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peachtJoined: 29 Dec 2004 Total posts: 1024 |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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I personally work alone and that works best for me. The point I'm making is simply one of community, how we work with other to establish feelings of mutual respect (wherever possible).
If you want to try out fansubbing then you could either; start from the beginning, and believe me you would get plenty of feedback if you asked for it, or work on a series that has not been subbed. We also host tv shows that are long running and as such we allow "random" eps. One of these would be excellent to experiment on.
Now you've tried fansubbing and come across a common problem, perfectionism, and that takes time, committing to that level for 20 or 40 episodes takes an incredible amount of time and so you can understand why we so value established subbers._________________ If you have enjoyed series you found here then please help the community by offering to seed the series in Series Of The Month |
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| gnossienneslent wrote: | | thank you for your manifesto |
yeah... so i seem to have pissed you off really well. that was not my intention, but i still think i am entitled to my views. now you seem to go out of your way to piss me off, and i don't appreciate that. it was really clever how you changed my name to lil'insult, you should be proud.
i can get carried away when i write, especially if i want to avoid misunderstandings. i never forced you to read my "manifesto".
i'm not forcing you to read this either.
i'm not saying that i will, or could be, but you don't know that i wouldn't be a valuable member to this community. whether i join a group or do something alone. right now i don't feel like i would want to be a member (yeah, i know you might think that is a good thing). and that is my main point. the whole point of the community is to provide translations to people who can't understand the language. if someone wants to provide a translation i think that that should be welcomed, and not discouraged.
i think your metaphores are flawed. first of all, rules and laws are not the exact same thing. especially not when you compare the rules of a fansub website with trespassing laws. you seem to compare this site to a house where a family lives. a house where a family lives is usually not a place where you let in strangers, and you stop them from breaking in (by doors, locks and laws). a website on the internet on the other hand is a place that usually welcomes everyone, and provides ways to come in (no locked doors, but a registration form). if you are comparing this website to a house, then what i am guilty of is more comparable (though maybe not exactly) to me going into an open house and doing the dishes and cooking dinner before someone else does.
if i had done something like "set your bed on fire to roast hot dogs" i would have had to hack the site to send spam or something, and that is far from what i have done.
as for the raw, i found that using the search function for torrents. as i mentioned before, i have only used this site to find torrents up until now.
| gnossienneslent wrote: |
You knew you were doing something wrong, whether you read the rules or not. (Yeah that's been pointed out.)
You didn't do this for feedback, but for the glory of a few pages of emoticon laden thank you's. No one ever gives real feedback in these threads. If you want feedback you would join a group and get an experienced editor. |
i did skim through the rules at half past one last night before uploading, but i still didn't feel like i was doing something wrong, no.
and again, i'm new. how was i supposed to know that "No one ever gives real feedback in these threads" when i had never used them before?
i'm not saying i did this for "a few pages of emoticon laden thank you's", but let's say that i did, is that really bad? if "a few pages of emoticon laden thank you's" is enough to encourage me to sub more and become better and to release more to satisfy my "emoticon laden thank you's" need, isn't that a good thing in the end? "emoticon laden thank you's" are in it's own way feedback too, though constructive critique is more valuable.
i'm not saying i agree with them, but some of your points are still valid. I do however think that you could write them in a nicer way.
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12bucklemyshoeJoined: 15 Jul 2007 Total posts: 23 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| saby wrote: | well to be quite honest I dont care who does the subs or if that person starts in the middle as long as we have the subs .. . I know its selfish
but then again.. since there are rules about subbing (even if they seem stupid) we should respect them
but i want everyone who is subbing dramas to know that I appriciate their hard work and I am really thankful |
Yeah, I'm just like you. I respect and am grateful to fansubbers but I'm selfish too so I am not loyal to any subbers or groups and download whichever good subs are released first.
Someone mentioned that there's provision for subbers who 'fall behind.' What counts as falling behind because there are some groups that release their subs like once every two months and as long as they don't say they've dropped the project, can other subbers start off from where they've left off and still post on d-addicts? Now, the usual practice is that they may start from the middle and post it up at veoh, their blog or some other site. And of course, from the viewer's POV, that's perfectly fine. I was just wondering about the provision on d-addicts.
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linuslJoined: 18 May 2008 Total posts: 24 Location: Sweden Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| peacht wrote: | I personally work alone and that works best for me. The point I'm making is simply one of community, how we work with other to establish feelings of mutual respect (wherever possible).
If you want to try out fansubbing then you could either; start from the beginning, and believe me you would get plenty of feedback if you asked for it, or work on a series that has not been subbed. We also host tv shows that are long running and as such we allow "random" eps. One of these would be excellent to experiment on.
Now you've tried fansubbing and come across a common problem, perfectionism, and that takes time, committing to that level for 20 or 40 episodes takes an incredible amount of time and so you can understand why we so value established subbers. |
I probably work best alone too, but that won't stop me from maybe trying a group some day.
I wanted to try subbing, but I didn't want to do episode 1 because it wouldn't have been as rewarding for me. I knew what was happening and what the characters were talking about after watching it subbed once before, so it would require less work on the translation part.
The part about members providing feedback when asked, even though it is an old episode, I didn't know, and couldn't know since I just joined. If you say that it is so, I'm going to have to take your word for it, but it was obviously not what I thought of this site. I honestly don't use forums much at all, only when I have to, and I suppose the helpfulness of forum members differs from forum to forum...
I like watching japanese tv shows, but subbing one seems like a nightmare, with people talking all the time and interrupting eachother and using wierd dialects and slang. I know they often write what people are saying on screen, but not always.
The reason I chose zettai kareshi was because I was watching the episode and it seemed easy enough to sub for a first try.
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gnossienneslentJoined: 06 Mar 2008 Total posts: 83 Location: Tokyo Age: 20 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| someone special wrote: | | i think your metaphores are flawed. first of all, rules and laws are not the exact same thing. |
| Oxford wrote: | law |lô|
noun
1 (often the law) the system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties |
I'll let you argue the semantics of that with Oxford. I can live with your metaphor and we'll call you the mistress. The wife is still probably not going to be too happy that you were in the kitchen cooking. Might be a better idea to light the bed on fire and roast weiners.
| sugar spun subber wrote: | | yeah... so i seem to have pissed you off really well. |
I think you give yourself a little too much credit on how much emotional control you wield over me. Your lack of capitalization is mildly irritating, but I find your self-contradicting statements more humorous than anything else:
| go for the gold wrote: | | I didn't want to do episode 1 because it wouldn't have been as rewarding for me. I knew what was happening and what the characters were talking about |
| wunderkind wrote: | | I like watching japanese tv shows, but subbing one seems like a nightmare, with people talking all the time and interrupting eachother and using wierd dialects and slang. |
| superduper wrote: | | However, I am too much of a perfectionist to do anything half-assed |
| infalable wrote: | | i did skim through the rules |
I think it's really clever how you break the rules, act indignant about it, and justify yourself based on your own ideas about how things should be, you should be proud.
| you're the best! wrote: | i can get carried away when i write, especially if i want to avoid misunderstandings. i never forced you to read my "manifesto".
i'm not forcing you to read this either. |
No one is forcing you to read what I write either, but you might try getting carried away when you read the rules. That's probably a better way to avoid misunderstandings.
_________________
BadasSubs, For the Hello of it™
Selectively recruiting
©Jane Doe
Subject to terms and availability.
SPQd-a
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) and don't care about the hard work someone else has been doing. So the rules might not be perfect but they are necessary.
