Fansubber Guidelines Rev 2 (Draft)

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Item:
Modified "Competition Clause"

Stance:
Yes.

Argument:
Primarily for the reasons against developed fansub groups prematurely claiming sole rights to fansub popular dramas.

Comments:
Reversed my stance in alignment with my group from compelling new reasons. I still prefer new, inexperienced fansubbers to join existing and developed groups as opposed to duplicating resources in creating a new group, but modified clause allows more freedoms than old one.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

the "do not announce a series before you have staff for it" concept has been stuck in my head and is growing on me bit by bit ...it would be less intimidating for there to be less names on the fansub map when you are checking to see if a series you want to sub is open.

but my irritating ability to overthink things to death makes me undecided even more now because if groups don't have "claiming rights", then they are free to announce what they will and try to recruit staff for it without really harming any other group who wants to do the same series. plus its possible that they do have staff for it and they are just wanting to recruit more staff for it.

so...just as a clarification...to the person that mentioned it, what all does announcing entail? like in your recruitment thread? or on the fansub map?

because i don't see the harm of trying to recruit for it if you don't have enough staff as long as you don't put down your name on the fansub map until you get enough staff

anyone have any thoughts about this?

here · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

i do think that a group shouldn't put their name down on the fansub map for a show if they don't have staff for it. thats pretty much common sense...but i guess if it needs to be a rule, its not a bad one. but they should be perfectly allowed to recruit for the series before they announce it.

as for the matter of groups doing more than one new drama..if there are no real problems as yet, why potentially muck up something that might not become a problem?

and as for announcing a show months in advance...as a member of a group that has announced shows months in advance, I don't see how this is a problem. as long as you have the staff willing to work on it when it comes out, its fair game

i can tell you that staffing those shows won't even remotely be an issue usually. these are shows that are insanely in demand and the groups may be getting lots and lots of questions from people if they intend to sub it when it comes out. so if they do intend to do it, announcing it on the fansub map avoids questions from a lot of people. (and frankly, even if the show is not good...that won't stop some people from wanting to work on it ^_^ for some, its all about the eyecandy)

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I think announcing would serve nothing whatsoever. It's only a show of intent. That's about it. Only real work counts. So, I'm glad that the silly rule of "exclusivity by announcement" is annulled.

"Have it your way" mentality will never work. It only serves to spoil the downloaders. But, yes, having more fansub groups would probably imply faster sub delivery. Competition is good. This is also a good byproduct of the rule abolition.

I believe that the exclusivity-by-announcement rule being abolished indicates a tacit agreement from the mods. We should not regurgitate this issue any further. So, instead of straying away to other directions, let's stay on track on the issue of the merging / closing of completed / abandoned sub threads. So, what's the resolution?

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I favor locking the threads instead. No merging, please.

About incomplete sub thread, I favor to keep it open and keep it listed in the subtitle index. Let's also allow other person to continue the subs where the original author left off, if:
1. The original author expressly abandoned the project and/or gave express permission to other people to continue the project, OR
2. The original author's can be deemed inactive for an extended period of time from his/her last visit date, OR
3. The person already posted his/her intent on the sub thread, but no reply for some extended period of time, OR
4. The person already tried to contact the original author but there's no answer for some extended period of time.

If the incomplete sub thread is part of multiple-subbed drama, then mods should lock the thread. Those who want to continue from where the original author left off should contact mods to transfer thread ownership.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

you're going to have a lot of varying opinions on appropriate time frame for announce as well, months ahead and after i've seen one or two episodes couldn't be further apart from one another...
and both announce time frames have their own validity... it will be hard to find middle ground there...

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I think people have different reasons for announcing. For some it may not be necessary at all and for others it may help to have a good lead time.
As I see it, our guidelines/regulations are there only to help prevent situations which are problematic or to clarify issues which may seem complicated. I don't think we should try to "regulate" unnecessarily.
So unless there are consequences I can't foresee I don't think we need to specify any detail on announcements.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Agreed on peacht's points. Since announcement doesn't make any difference, people can make any announcement they want. Be it at the first wind of rumors on the series existence or at a decade after the series is released. I think it's inappropriate (and problematic) for mods to regulate it. Those who are insensible in their announcements will be deemed as such by the others, regardless of the regulation.

I had expected this thread to be short. I spotted some trolling and slightly off-topic discussion in the middle. I do hope that we do keep our focus on the crux of the unresolved problems and limit the discussion on tangential points. I hope that the revised rule can be promulgated as soon as possible.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Agreed on abcd99's points. It looks like there's general consensus for the new modified clause. It's now just a waiting game to see when it'll be official.

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I finally got the chance to read up on all the posts.
Overall, great discussion! Smile

As I see, it ppl are in favor of the change to the competition clause, so yay! Hurdle #1 clear! dance

I do agree that by allowing multiple subbers per project, we may end up having a lot more "hit and run" subbers, but that risk has always been there -- even with larger, more established groups. After all, you never know when a member of the group (e.g. translator) will just quit on you, for whatever reason... Whistling

...*cough*... Fear

As long as fanubbers take the responsibility to inform/update the public of their situation, I don't see speed of releases being an issue at all. Besides, if another person/group comes along that is more capable of dedicating resources to speedier releases, the modified guidelines give the option now of helping out the original group or starting up a duplicate project of their own -- whichever works best for them.

Regarding managing multiple soft sub threads: I hadn't thought about this at all ^_^; , but I agree that the best solution would be to have each group be able to create their own thread. We just need to modify the rules about how to tag the threads. Since the Subtitle Index thread automatically sorts and indexes all the entries, there shouldn't be any really visible change to how everything works. My only real concern is running out of character spaces in the thread title if the subbing group is added as well... scratch

Meh... i guess we'll see how it actually goes for a season or two and figure something out if we need to.

Thank you buttons... eh... I don't really like the idea, partially because ppl have enough problems following the simple, ages old, established rule of: Do not request subs Laugh

I don't think implementing a button would do too much, especially if we want to keep the threads open for more constructive or elaborate comments. Are the serial "thank you" ppl actually a problem that needs to be addressed (if they are, let me know why and we'll see if we can't come up with something to help that)? If we need to, maybe we can transform the "thumbs up" button for that purpose? It's not getting much use now, as is.... ^_^;

Some ppl have already mentioned it, but I wanted to repeat again that the purpose of these guidelines is to establish a set of ground rules for conduct to minimize unnecessary conflicts between groups based on misunderstandings. All of this is really for the purpose of fostering a healthy environment for fansubbers to communicate with each other and contribute to the growth of the community.

Personally, I am explicitly NOT in favor of establishing rules to regulate the fansub community with how they operate. Establishing rules to regulate who can fansub a drama based on their resources or experience would only stifle growth, create animosity, and generate a massive amount of work for us to follow-up on... The same thing goes for when groups can make an announcement.

The most we can do is to advise new, potential fansubbers things they should consider during the process and on what they are in store for... I think there's already a thread for that around here someplace, but if there isn't, I'll make one and link it as a resource in the first post.

My time has unfortunately been limited recently, so please give me a couple days to rework up the guidelines and related posts accordingly.

In the meantime, I want to reiterate that if there is anything you ever want to contribute to the guidelines discussion, please do. We're always open to new ideas and concerns, and this thread is always open, just for that reason.

Thanks
Smile