Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
I got confused in here somewhere. That's all right because I live in confusion. As a editor/translator and a member of a 2.5 person collaboration, I think I can speak for my partners when I say we'd like to have our own thread for our soft subs. Our schedules and subbing styles at this moment don't allow us to work with others. It's tricky enough as it is.
I chose Gokusen 3 after my partner shared a single episode with me two months ago and we had a long conversation about it. I didn't watch it or those that followed with subtitles. Now I'm taxed with teaching myself Yakuza-speak.
Anyway, it wasn't until after a representative from another group contacted us and asked for a collaboration did I realize that they even had a historical claim. Given our crazy schedules, we decided to opt out on yet another collaboration and go our own way. In fact, from a language learning standpoint, I would love to compare multiple (soft-sub) versions upon completion.
So, isn't it all right to have a threads like these?
Perhaps more importantly, I'd rather have direct communication with our audience. If we get busy or things get out of control, we make it a point to contact the people who are supporting us and we explain the delays.
In the case of Gokusen 3, I think there is an established audience for that other group and we have no intention of infringing on them. However, for those who view ours, we'd like to give them more of what we have already offered with our current subs. We don't want to compete. We don't want to cheat. We'd just like a single thread that we can run without stepping on anyone else's toes. Maybe I'm misguided, but I'd like to think that some people will support our work because we're giving them our all, not just because the drama is popular. I read the subs of translators I respect even if I don't download the raws.
It would make my year and motivate me beyond belief if a single person said, "Hey, I really don't like Gokusen, but because you did this, this or that with drama xx, I'm giving it a shot."
I don't really have anything else to contribute. I'm just one person with a crazy time-consuming hobby. On the plus side, it's a good learning experience. Good luck with sorting this out.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
I should mention all my experience is with Japanese drama, so forgive me if what I say isn't applicable to some of the other genres.
battlegirlai wrote:
one show isn't enough to give everyone something to do
Look at the Fansub Map for Winter 2008. For the most part, no group is doing more than one drama. All I'm asking is that we reinforce that with a statement in the guidelines, as a couple seasons ago some group went (in my mind) overboard and announced three dramas or something like that.
Changing topics, I also support separate threads for different versions. If I was using the subs, I would find it awkward to be visiting one thread for a drama and then having to pick which version to use. I like the Thank You button idea, but I don't think the threads should be combined. Personally, I take pride in my work, and I would not necessarily want to be grouped into another team's thread and share posts or commenting space with those subs or the people using them. If the objective is to cut fat somewhere, don't cut it off the subbing threads, which in my mind is one of the pillars of the D-Addicts community... Cut down on excessive image posting or ridiculous "chit-chat" threads.
_________________ See my current DramaWiki editing projects here.
See my current and completed subbing projects here.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: Re: re Post Rating: 0
well i think even if a group isn't sure they can do all the ep's if no one else has done it and looks like no one ever will.
they should give it a shot because hay its better to have a few ep's then nothing.lol
but i do remember when monkey king was only done to ep 21(even tho gem made the rest.lol) it kinda sucked.
but ppl got to remember that fansubbers do it for free and put in alot of work in how can you do anything but thank them and love them for it
and i do understand what your saying about ppl saying they going to do subs with no one to translate them.lol
just some guy saying he's going to do it thats crazy and gets ppl hopes up
XiaoPauli wrote:
mgfcortez wrote:
but it seems your saying D-A shouldn't let new fansubbers work on popular dramas...
I didn't say or imply that.
well like i said i wasn't sure i was understanding what you was saying but sounded like that to me what about anyone else?
anyway sorry
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
Sapporo Girl, that's exactly what the proposed changes are about: Multiple threads of the same drama that come from different subbing groups.
The problem to discuss here is whether or not to close the threads once the drama is finished or deemed inactive. On one side, we want to curb redundant threads. On the other side, closing threads may curb feedbacks. This is, I believe, the gist of the debate here.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
@ Sappy Girl I'll happily retract the last couple lines on my previous post (unless of course that .5 person is ala Hirst's cow.) The two of you in the Weird Beer group have a wiki entry that definitely reads like an artist statement. I applaud you for taking it to that level, but you are definitely a minority and seem capable of managing any conflict that arises. I think this discussion is geared toward what would be appropriate for the masses that have sprung up, many with only a passing interest in translating a show. They enjoy throwing together a website and discussing everything, but that's sometimes as far as it gets.
I think you bring valuable input to the discussion since most groups scatter once a big group sits on a project. It sounds like you are withdrawing from the project? You're still on it at the subbing map... like I have to tell you that, but I guess I'm seeking clarification.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
@abcd99
Thanks for clearing things up for me. I'll catch on one day. 何時か！
@gnossienneslent
I've been called many things, but never Sappy Girl. Thank you for your kind words regarding our efforts. Our .5 is Kyle. He's the reluctant underscore that binds us.
Quote:
I think this discussion is geared toward what would be appropriate for the masses that have sprung up, many with only a passing interest in translating a show. They enjoy throwing together a website and discussing everything, but that's sometimes as far as it gets.
I see. I see. Finally. My brain might have gone dead after clusterfuck...a word I hope to use one day!!!
Quote:
It sounds like you are withdrawing from the project? You're still on it at the subbing map... like I have to tell you that, but I guess I'm seeking clarification.
Will are absolutely not withdrawing. We might be slow because my 75% art and 25% skill ratio sometimes gets in the way, but it will get done in a reasonable time.
I will leave you lovely folks for today and get busy on episode 10 of our current project.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
@quashio - its possible that particular season just didn't have many shows that caught the interest of many translators within any single group. who is to say that next season there won't be 2 shows that catch the attention of a few translators within a group...
for example...
you have 4 translators in one group. they may or may not be working on any other projects at the moment...but they do have the free time to take on some new translations...
two of the translators want to translate the new series XX that starts next month...but the other two don't like XX and would really rather work on the new series ZZ...and their fansub group has tons and tons of timers/editors/qcers interested in both...you have to tell the second two translators "no, you can't do ZZ...we can only do YY because of the d-a rule".... is that fair?
what if no other group has said they want to do ZZ? and what if a couple of weeks go by and still no one has claimed ZZ...can these translators then do it? but what if a different group pops up a week after that saying they want to work on ZZ...do the translators have to give it over to this other group because of the rule?
there are just too many "what ifs"
@mgfcortez - yeah, i was very upset when jtv stopped subbing monkey king when jem started releasing the tvrips...i much prefer dicky in cantonese (i still downloaded all the raws and watched them anyway ^_^ i love dicky!). but i think there was more to it than just them being mad that jem was releasing it too. i thought i heard something about them having difficulty translating it so this just made it easier for them to let go of what was giving them so much trouble anyway. so its possible that they viewed jem's releases as a good thing. its hard to tell since they didn't talk much about it.
but i half agree and half disagree with you on the "a few eps is better than no eps" thing. i mean...i really think its best that if you start something, you should intend to finish it. if you can't finish it because of some unplanned reason, like translators vanishing or life and work taking away your free time, then no one can fault anyone for that. but i can see how even one episode of a show subbed is nicer than having none subbed. sometimes you will just take whatever you can get, ya know? ^_^
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
@abcdefg Then quit nitpicking other people's points.
If this were about French subs then I think we wouldn't be having this discussion in English. My comment may have been snide, but far from invalid. I think it would be a good idea if we define what we are discussing, especially since it was discussion point 2 in the original post, and if my comment opens the way for that discussion I would say it was far more productive than your retort.
If you don't find my comments palatable don't read them.
Hidden:
Side note: the K-drama subs are dominated by With S2 and the Chinese Dramas have groups doing multiple shows. Since you sub Chinese shows you probably already know that.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
@gnossienneslent: Haha, I read about that particular 'artist' and the dog being chained up in the name of art as well. was quite indignant at first (since I love dogs), but apparently it was almost always unchained and well fed/watered apart from when the dog was 'on display' so to speak, so maybe it wasn't *that* bad in asense. Still, I wish he'd stick with something more conventional next time.
@XiaoPauli: I read your comments with interest, as I thought it was a very unique way of laying out one's argument (shows how much I know ;)) but that aside, I would agree that the proposed 'alternative modifications' are too extreme, particularly with regards a 'non-biased' committee deciding who to award fansub rights to. Although I am new (hence newbie status so apologies if this is an issue) but I would like to be a bit harsh and say that this particular suggestion holds no merit at all for the D-Addicts community.
I do however agree that it is possible that "multiple groups will replicate tasks to more popular dramas that could better be allocated to less popular ones".
@quashlo: Definitely agree with 'intent to sub only after assembling the team'. After reading the comments from subsequent users, I'd have to agree that perhaps one-drama-per-season-per-team may not be appropriate for all.
Just a random suggestion (that isn't meant to be taken too seriously ): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
flick.enchained wrote:
Just a random suggestion (that isn't meant to be taken too seriously ): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.
i guess that would totally depend upon the size of the fansub group. some groups have upwards of 100 members...some only have 2-3 members...in a group with nearly 100 members, with a quarter or so of that number being translators, multiple projects is not only possible but necessary to keep the staff happy and sane.
with a group capable of doing more than one new show per season, a preference system would be of no real help to them since they'd still possibly only end up with one new project and lots of idle staff
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
Thanks for the info, battlegirlai Wow, 100+ members... that's massive, really massive! ^^
I suppose I should clarify, the preference system wouldn't be limited to just one new project The example I gave is just where the original idea stemmed from. What we need here is funky equation that takes into account all sorts of factors such as group size, demand for drama, etc etc
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0
battlegirlai wrote:
if you start handing out the "no, you can't work on this show" or giving them allotted credits to claim new shows....
For the first part of the sentence, I agree. This wouldn't make sense in JDramas and KDramas, which already has an abundant supply of contributors. TDramas? I imagine that scenario rarely occurring, which is why I argue that the old clause is fine for TDramas.
For the second part of the sentence, the "credits" idea was not meant to be taken seriously. It was purposely set up to be extreme so that it can generate more relaxed ideas to solve the following situation: existing TDrama fansub groups laying claim to multiple dramas in a short span of time without the resources to handle them in a reasonable time frame or a reasonable level of quality. I don't really recommend using the "credits" idea as a counter-argument for supporting the modified clause.
battlegirlai wrote:
some fansub groups are not run like a business.
Oh yeah, of course not. That's exactly why I think the original clause is fine the way it is (for TDramas). I feel that the modified clause supports encourages competition, something which makes more sense for, say, businesses, than the less-developed TDrama fansub network. I know that's not what you probably meant, but I just wanted to point out that the modified clause seems to treat fansub groups more like businesses than the original clause.
flick.enchained wrote:
Although I am new (hence newbie status so apologies if this is an issue) but I would like to be a bit harsh and say that this particular suggestion holds no merit at all for the D-Addicts community.
No, that's a good opinion. My "proposed" alternatives weren't meant to exhibit such changes. If I saw anyone implement even one of the suggestions I proposed, I would freak out and say "whoa, let's be reasonable here..." Since some people were advocating the idea of pure competition, which I'm against as a blanket solution to the various fansub networks (specifically, TDramas), I wanted to introduce the extreme ideas of purely monopolies With these two extremes of pure competition and pure monopolies brought to the table, I hoped that a middle ground could be found that's more reasonable for the interesting situation for fansub groups.
So in summary, my argument is: keep the original clause (for TDramas) and maintain the status quo (for now).
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Thank you for your kind words regarding our efforts. Our .5 is Kyle. He's the reluctant underscore that binds us.
was quite indignant at first (since I love dogs), but apparently it was almost always unchained and well fed/watered apart from when the dog was 'on display' so to speak, so maybe it wasn't *that* bad in asense. Still, I wish he'd stick with something more conventional next time.
): Do most teams sub more than one drama? (has no idea) But perhaps it might be worth having a preference system, where assuming each team have their 'top 3' for the season, depending on the ranking by each team and the demand for the drama, each group would at least get their top choice(s) in some way or another. I don't quite know how this system works, except that friends who have to choose their uni projects in a particular department have to rank their top 6 choices, and are guaranteed a project from one in their list.
